War! What is it Good For? THE CLIMATE silly

Pelosi, Taiwan and climate: why military conflict might be good for the planet

Just when you think you’ve seen it all, the South China Morning Post comes along and slaps you in the face.

Economic activity that fuels growth also drives deadly weather events. The Ukraine war has forced Europe to rethink its reliance on Russian energy

A Taiwan Strait conflict that disrupts global trade might make us stop consuming our way to climate disaster

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3187260/pelosi-taiwan-and-climate-why-military-conflict-might-be-good

As is common, the article is a window into an alternate reality.

Perhaps it was the catastrophic images of the flooding that prompted Senator Joe Manchin, from neighbouring West Virginia, to reverse his opposition to the most comprehensive climate bill in American history.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3187260/pelosi-taiwan-and-climate-why-military-conflict-might-be-good

Remember, death, destruction, poverty, and starvation are a small price to pay to satisfy the Climate Gods.

Black swans like the Covid-19 pandemic tend to make this happen against just about everyone’s will. Russia’s war against Ukraine may work towards this goal on the margins, given that many in Europe will need to curtail power generation until they figure out how to replace the Russian energy supply. But, with talk of fossil fuels filling the gap in the near term, we could see the opposite.

Which brings us back to Pelosi, who has the world guessing whether she will make Taipei part of her Asia-Pacific itinerary. Such a move carries the risk of a military conflict in the Taiwan Strait, which would have dire economic consequences as supply chains run through China and the rest of Asia.

If a conflict ends up severing trade between Asia and the US, billions of us will suddenly need to make do to an extent far greater than when Covid-19 disrupted supply chains.

All things considered, a Pelosi delegation to Taiwan might be just what the Earth’s natural ecosystems need.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3187260/pelosi-taiwan-and-climate-why-military-conflict-might-be-good

Full article at the link below.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3187260/pelosi-taiwan-and-climate-why-military-conflict-might-be-good

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Zig Zag Wanderer
August 13, 2022 10:37 am

Well, of course. Death and destruction won’t just happen by itself, will it? You need to help it along, in a good communist manner.

H.R.
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 13, 2022 12:36 pm

Well, if nuclear missiles are going to be used, I have a few suggestions for targets.

starzmom
Reply to  H.R.
August 13, 2022 4:05 pm

A nuclear winter would definitely reduce global warming for a long time to come.

August 13, 2022 10:58 am

“Russia’s war against Ukraine may work towards this goal on the margins, given that many in Europe will need to curtail power generation until they figure out how to replace the Russian energy supply.”

The Russian energy supply is available to all customers who pay in Rubles and Russian companies WANT to sell their energy. But Euros are now Monopoly money to them because of banking sanctions on Russia and that could be permanent. Can’t expect Russian companies to give away products for free.
This is caused by EU nations making a choice that hurts them — they won’t pay in Rubles — the banking sanctions are not Russia’s fault

Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 11:03 am

Sure, and Russia is heroically defending itself in Ukraine.
Alaska comes next.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Curious George
August 13, 2022 12:06 pm

Actually, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, and Poland are next. Alaska is on the list, but it will have to wait its turn.

Reply to  Walter Sobchak
August 13, 2022 12:47 pm

There is no list except in your imagination

MarkW
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 6:25 pm

Putin has stated his desire to reform the old Soviet Union.

Reply to  MarkW
August 13, 2022 8:06 pm

Politicians state lots of desires that never happen, So what?

0311
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 8:21 pm

When someone tells you they are going to end you, believe them.

KcTaz
Reply to  0311
August 15, 2022 2:15 am

As far as I can recall, there are only two nations on earth who have threatened to end us and a few others, Iran and China. Putin may well want to reconstitute the USSR and, as far as that goes, the old Russian Empire, but I doubt if he is so dumb he would try that.
He may be evil but he’s not suffering from advanced dementia, unlike our President.

Mark Whitney
Reply to  MarkW
August 14, 2022 5:50 am

What he actually said was that the collapse of the USSR was disastrous and that if he could turn back time he would have reformed the union rather than dismantle it. I can find no reference other than the speculation of others to support any claim that he seeks to recreate it.

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Mark Whitney
August 14, 2022 7:15 am
Mark Whitney
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
August 14, 2022 9:22 am

He did not say he wanted to reabsorb them. He said that if they joined with the West in threatening Russia, the response would be the same as that for the threat posed by Ukraine. I would imagine the response of the US would be similar if Russia or China tried to recruit Mexico or Canada as allies and probable bases for arms and armies. It does add up if you avoid the new math.

Kemaris
Reply to  Mark Whitney
August 14, 2022 5:34 pm

You mean, other than the NAKED RUSSIAN AGGRESSION in Ukraine that is the first step toward reforming the old USSR? Or are you just distracted by the sexy naked Putin?

niceguy
Reply to  MarkW
August 16, 2022 1:08 pm

Putin has stated it would be crazy to restore Soviet Union!

Last edited 1 month ago by niceguy
Redge
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
August 13, 2022 11:13 pm

If Putin invades a NATO member (all of the countries you mention except Moldovia), it’s WWIII

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
August 14, 2022 4:40 am

Meanwhile, China is eyeing all that land Russia stole from it – just waiting for Russia to weaken.

KcTaz
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 15, 2022 2:17 am

I have not heard that before but it is certainly very possibly true, in my opinion.

HotScot
Reply to  Curious George
August 13, 2022 12:23 pm

Utter nonsense. Putin has done precisely what he said he would do, defend the ethnic Russian population of eastern Ukraine. He’s pursued the Ukrainian military to its natural home, Kiev, destroyed them and withdrawn to the Donbas.

Western Ukraine were shelling the Donbas for 7 days prior to Russia crossing the border. Russia served article 51 on the Security Council legally, which gives then the right to protect a fellow UN nation. Art. 51 does not distinguish between regions of a sovereign nation. Read it, it’s a single ambiguous paragraph.

Why do you imagine every UN nation refused to enforce a no fly zone? Because it would be aiding an aggressor. Why are there no UN troops in Ukraine? Because it would be aiding an aggressor.

There is a reason Biden and Europe are shovelling funds into Ukraine at the cost of European misery over the coming winter. I don’t know what it is, but it sure isn’t peace and prosperity for anyone.

Derg
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 12:35 pm

This ^

Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 12:52 pm

It would be correct to say that no nations, including Russia., did anything to stop the Ukrainian civil war from 2014 to 2022.
Russia taking Crimea in 2014 without much opposition by the US and UK to defend Ukraine, which they had promised to do in the 1990s, gave Russia a message of what would happen if they tried to stop the Donbas civil war,

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 12:32 am

Arse over elbow. Russia fuelled that ‘civil war’ by arming the separatists while the Russian army gave covert support. But you are right about the West not reacting to the illegal annexation of Crimea. Big geopolitical mistake. By whom, who again was in the WH then?

Jeroen
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 12:54 pm

Is this the mindset of wuwt readers? You know so little about the history of that area and the people. Do you even know how the UN works? Dumbest comment by far ever read over here. Do you know why there are ethnic Russians there in the first place? Holodomor…

Richard Page
Reply to  Jeroen
August 13, 2022 1:20 pm

The reason is very much the same for other countries occupied by Russia – so why were Georgia and Ukraine the only countries to persecute the Russian speaking parts of their countries to the point where they declared war on them? Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and others managed to sort the problems out and are integrating the different groups into their countries, so why did Georgia and Ukraine feel the need to eliminate them?

Editor
Reply to  Richard Page
August 13, 2022 5:26 pm

re: “Lithuania [] managed to sort the problems out and are integrating the different groups into their countries”.
Lithuania realised that it was impossible to integrate all the ethnic Russions into Lithuania, and ensured that Kaliningrad remained a separate Russian enclave.

Richard Page
Reply to  Mike Jonas
August 14, 2022 8:13 am

The situation had nothing to do with the Lithuanians – the treaty of Potsdam ceded the Kaliningrad Oblast over the objections of Lithuania at the request of the Russians, supported by the west. The situation you refer to happened in the 1950’s when the Lithuanian SSR refused to accept joining with the seperate Kaliningrad SSR when offered by the Soviets. One of the sticking points was that, as the Germans had expelled many of the inhabitants in favour of German settlers in the 40’s, then the Soviets expelled the Germans in favour of mostly Russian settlers in 47-49, the population had little in common with Lithuania.

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Richard Page
August 14, 2022 7:21 am

Russia has greatly valued visa free access to the EU via the Baltic States. A great way to infiltrate whoever they want.

Kemaris
Reply to  Richard Page
August 14, 2022 5:35 pm

Nice Russian propaganda you’re pushing there, not one word of which is true

Richard Page
Reply to  Kemaris
August 14, 2022 6:58 pm

All of which happens to be true, unfortunately for your narrative. The problem of ethnic Russians has been a problem for all of the former Soviet occupied states. The Soviets pushed a post-war program of manufacturing onto these states but insisted that the skilled and managerial jobs were done by Russians, not locals. That and the system of relocating conscript servicemen was responsible for large numbers of Russians appearing there – which has been a problem in South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Donetsk and Luhansk where the Russians wanted autonomous regions. Which brings me back to my original question of why there – what did Georgia and Ukraine do differently from Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, etc?

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Jeroen
August 13, 2022 1:32 pm

Is this the mindset of wuwt readers?

It certainly seems to be the case. It’s turning me off the site. I can handle anti-socialist opinions, but not pro-russian ones.

My grandfather was instrumental in documenting the holodomor. Many of my family’s friends are Ukrainians. My family has been there, we know what it’s like, and what it’s about. We know what Putin is like, just another crazed dictator Stalin-wannabe.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 13, 2022 1:56 pm

“We know what Putin is like, just another crazed dictator Stalin-wannabe.”

Yes, he is.

Those who defend his atrocities are pathetic.

HotScot
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2022 2:31 pm

But Cheney is fine.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 4:40 am

Dick Cheney? I saw that former shell of himself doing an advertisement for his daughter’s congressional campaign calling Trump the most dangerous man in America.

Even Dick can be affected by TDS. It’s sad.

Now tell me how Dick and Putin are similar.

KcTaz
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 15, 2022 2:46 am

I suspect if you asked an Iraqi, or an Afghan if there was a difference, they’d be hard pressed to think of any. Same goes for Obama/Hillary in Libya and Syria.

Look, I was a big supporter of Cheney and Bush in the Iraq War II. My son is a USMC Iraq War II combat vet, now separated.
I’ve grown older and wiser since then. I now question the entire enterprise and others taken by Bush/Cheney and Obama/Hillary and, now, Biden.
Where were those WMDs anyway?

I’ve lived though the Korean War (which is the only one that achieved anything positive,) the Vietnam War, Iraq War I and II, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and some I’ve probably forgotten. Other than Korea, all of them turned into useless, senseless never-ending wars with few positive outcomes and a whole lot of bad ones.
In addition, were fighting or supporting never-ending civil wars in Africa, of all places. Some would say the West was instrumental in starting some of those and that is quite likely true.

As for Ukraine, when it started I felt like many others here and was horrified. I still am over the deaths of so many civilians. But as it has gone on, it has become surreal. It’s like watching a badly written play with no end but with some popular actors that keep it running.
Remember, Ukraine was and is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. I am beginning to come to the conclusion it still is and this war is for the profit of a few, not to defeat Russia or help Ukraine.
Thus far, this war has done a great job of harming the West, making it poorer, enriching Putin and may soon cause starvation and a dearth of energy in the entire Western world. The only ones happy about all this are the climate nutters, the NWO types, Biden, Trudeau, some in the EU and China and Russia.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 4:46 am

But the film “Vice” was fun to watch.

Simon
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2022 2:46 pm

I’m with you Tom.

HotScot
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2022 3:36 pm

Define “atrocities” please.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 4:43 am

The deliberate killing of innocent civilians. In the case of Ukraine, the mass deliberate killing of innocent civilians.

KcTaz
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 15, 2022 4:35 am

But Russia can say the same thing about the Ukraine Gov. killing ethnic Russians in those regions.

It’s not like the Ukrainian Gov. has been a boon to it’s citizens.

Ukraine – a modern tragedy in seven acts
https://bit.ly/3Io4v2n
3/28/22

……Following the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine becomes an independent state. However, corruption is rife. As late as 2008, the combined wealth of Ukraine’s 50 richest oligarchs was equal to 85 per cent of Ukraine’s GDP, and despite the country’s mineral and agricultural wealth the standard of living for most Ukrainians is very low…

Good God, Ukraine has been the world’s playground for every oligarch and crooked politician in the world, including and most especially, Joe Biden and his son. These crooks have been raping Ukraine and stealing the wealth of it’s citizens for decades and I see nothing to suggest, and I say this with great sadness and disappointment, that Zelensky is any different.

Zelensky A CROOK?

…Then, I checked out this article Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle.
Here are the key findings:
• Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and his partners in comedy production owned a network of offshore companies related to their business based in the British Virgin Islands, Cyprus, and Belize.
• Zelensky’s current chief aide, Serhiy Shefir, as well as the head of the country’s Security Service, were part of the offshore network.
• Offshore companies were used by Shefir and another business partner to buy pricey London real estate.
• Around the time of his 2019 election, Zelensky handed his shares in a key offshore company over to Shefir, but the two appear to have made an arrangement for Zelensky’s family to continue receiving money from the offshore…

https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle?s=09

KcTaz
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 15, 2022 4:23 am

Questioning this war is not defending Putin.

You remind me of the people during Vietnam who called people questioning that war traitors. Can you tell me what in the heck the point of that war was? We lost it, didn’t we, but 50,000 American soldiers were killed and many, many more permanently mentally, physically, or both left severely injured? What did it accomplish? Nothing.
What did the Afghanistan War accomplish? Nothing. It is back to Square One, just like it was before we fought it.
Syria and Libya are worse off now than before we started wars with them and, but for Trump, ISIS may well be in charge by now.

My God, at this point, I can’t understand why anyone does not seriously question any wars our Government gets us into. The US hasn’t won a war since WWII but, for some reason, we keep trying. Why do we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again?

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 13, 2022 1:56 pm

And the US attacked Iraq using the completely false claim of weapons of mass destruction. Caused far more damage to civilian infrastructure there than Russia has so far in Ukraine. Do you hate America for that unjustified attack on Iraq? If not, then you are a hypocrite.

Last edited 1 month ago by Richard Greene
Editor
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 5:31 pm

Saddam Hussein himself said that he had chemical weapons, and he had clearly used them within Iraq. The inspectors were prevented by Iraq from visiting any places where there could have been chemical weapons – in some cases they were let in after there had been enough time to remove any such weapons. It is not at all clear that claims of the existence of chemical weapons were false.

HotScot
Reply to  Mike Jonas
August 13, 2022 6:02 pm

And yet during the years of occupation since, nothing was ever found.

MarkW
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 6:29 pm

That is a lie. The weapons were found, as were programs to create more.
Even if there had been none, the mere fact that Saddam was interfering with the inspections was all the justification that was needed.

Reply to  MarkW
August 13, 2022 8:13 pm

Old chemicals no loger functional buried underground for safety reasons — NOT USED

Iran interferes with inspections
US should attack them too?

North Korea inspections?
US should attack them too?

You are a warmonger.
Shame on you.

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 7:36 am

Iran has fired missiles and drones at Saudi and the UAE, some via its proxy Houthi force in Yemen, but some via the direct route. Hezbollah wages war in the region. Not sure who you think is the warmonger. It’s a dangerous world, with too much scope for miscalculation.

KcTaz
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
August 15, 2022 3:09 am

I have to agree with you on that. I don’t think there are any doubts about Iran’s supporting the Yemen rebels nor being the number one sponsor of terrorism in the world. However, given that is true and I think it is, why in the name of God did Biden green light their nuclear program and do this?

Biden’s New Iran Deal Offers Iran $1 Trillion by 2030 – This Is Treasonous
https://bit.ly/3RHhJeE
7/15/22

KcTaz
Reply to  MarkW
August 15, 2022 3:05 am

When were they found? Where were they?
Yes, we know at one time Saddam had them because he used them in Iran but that was a long time ago. I have seen nothing to suggest any have been found post Iraq War II.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 4:48 am

America’s mistake in attacking Iraq doesn’t justify Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

KcTaz
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 15, 2022 3:11 am

No, it doesn’t but it does make a whole lot of Americans sound like flaming hypocrites, especially, Biden and the truly despicable Cheney!

Reply to  Mike Jonas
August 13, 2022 8:08 pm

Weapons of mass destruction was a lie
There was no evidence of them
Period
Iraq had no involvement in 9/11

KcTaz
Reply to  Mike Jonas
August 15, 2022 3:03 am

That is true. I recall a US Army intelligence officer who interrogated Saddam’s generals. They claim they believed he had chemical weapons and were surprised he never used them but that would suggest the WMDs were a bluff by Saddam and not real.

I said the same thing as you for a long time. Now, I’m not so sure. One would think if Saddam had them, some of them would have been found by now. None have.
If they went to Syria, as many have claimed and as I used to believe myself, where are they? Why have none of those been found even though we’ve had troops there since 2015 and, no doubt, have had the CIA and other Intel on the ground for far longer?
The US has been lied into many wars. I am weary of the wars, the lies and no longer have any faith in the claims of the US Gov. You may be right and I may be wrong for all I know but I sure know there are a whole lot of questions that have never been answered and the same thing is going on in Ukraine right now.
I’m just grateful that my twol brothers and my husband came back from Vietnam alive and our son came back from Iraq alive and with only a 20% disability.

MarkW
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 6:28 pm

THe WMDs and programs to create more WMDs were found.
Regardless, Saddam violated all of the terms of the cease fire, which completely justified the resumption of hostilities.

Reply to  MarkW
August 13, 2022 8:14 pm

Old no longer functional chemicals long buried underground for the safety of the Iraq people
YOU ARE A LIAR

Ted
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 3:46 pm

Literally hundreds of rounds of fully functional chemical weapons that were hidden from inspectors were found and destroyed in Iraq from 2003 to 2010.

KcTaz
Reply to  Ted
August 15, 2022 3:14 am

Ted, I know that was a long time ago but do you have any sources for that because I sure don’t remember that. Old. ones, yes. A stock of new chemical weapons, I never heard of his alleged supply of them ever having been found in Iraq or Syria.

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 12:48 am

Deflection.

Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
August 14, 2022 5:08 am

truth is never a deflection

Pflashgordon
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 11:01 am

Wrong or right, at the time of the invasion, Hussein was killing his own people at the rate of 25,000 per year. He also had a choice in how he responded to invasion threat and could have easily forestalled it. He was culpable for his own demise, WMDs or not. Also, the U.S. spent the entire length of the war building and bolstering Iraqi infrastructure and economy. We sent teams there to aid in recovery and help their agriculture prosper. Likewise in Afghanistan. Maybe both were a hopeless dream, but we tried. We didn’t need the oil.

As for Ukraine, they are caught in the middle as a buffer state between opposing world powers, both of whom have actively meddled in their internal affairs. Did Putin have to invade? Of course not. Was it justifiable? I don’t know. However, Russian brutality (their style of warfare), possibly owing to their own military weaknesses and ineptitude, is what has angered many people. Except for nuclear weapons, it has also demonstrated that the Russian war machine is not so formidable.

The war has ground down to WWI style trench warfare and an artillery duel. A war of attrition. Nobody wins, and Putin, if he doesn’t die first of cancer, has severely damaged his own country. And for the first time since my childhood in the 1960s, I have sensed that nuclear war is a real possibility. All sides have enough warheads to destroy every town of >10,000 population, and a dying dictator might just decide to take everyone with him.

Meanwhile, in the West, nobody needs to try a military invasion. We are self-destructing from within. Global warming has always just been the poster-child for global totalitarianism. We waste our time trying to reason with such madness and it’s minions in academia, government and NGOs.

KcTaz
Reply to  Pflashgordon
August 15, 2022 3:28 am

I agree with much of what you say, however, this is problematic for me, “He also had a choice in how he responded to invasion threat and could have easily forestalled it.”
The exact same thing could be said of Zelinsky, Biden and NATO in regards to Russia and Putin.
Don’t forget, Clinton promised Russia after the fall of the USSR and during negotiations that Ukraine would never be allowed to join NATO. I guess he lied.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 4:56 am

I don’t think the attack on Saddam was unjustified. He did have Weapons of Mass Destruction. He used them in the past. Saddam was given every opportunity to avoid war, by allowing inspectors in and proving he had no WMD, and he chose war instead.

George H.W. Bush should have taken out Saddam during the First Gulf War and would have saved us all a lot of trouble.

And George W. Bush should have taken out the Mad Mullahs of Iran when he had the chance during the Second Gulf War.

He had the Mad Mullahs surrounded by hundreds of thousands of American troops, and all he would have had to do was publicly and enthusiastically throw his support to the Iranian people and the Iranian regular army and it’s my bet the people would have overthrown the Mad Mullahs without the U.S. even having to fire a shot. But timid George didn’t want to go there.

So now we have nuclear-armed Mad Mullahs that we are going to have to deal with in the future and no doubt someone will claim we are not justified when we go to war with them. They will be crying for the Mad Mullahs and calling us war criminals.

Appeasers and excusers-of-dictators, never fix problems, they only make things worse.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 14, 2022 5:12 am

US used weapons of mass destruction — atomic bombs — against Japan long ago. Is the US evil today because of that bombing in the 1940s? Killed a lot of civilians — not military targets.

Hussein used chemical weapons against Iran in the past. Did the US object? No. Let Iran get attacked. But years later the fact that Iraq had used chemicals against Iran becomes justification for invading Iraq? You must be kidding.

KcTaz
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 15, 2022 3:30 am

As I recall, Reagan was delighted over the Iraq Iran War. He said, “It’s a shame they both can’t lose.” I still share his sentiments over that.

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 14, 2022 7:39 am

The debate at the time of Desert Storm concluded that Iraq would become an ungovernable mess in civil war if Saddam were deposed. That conclusion was not wrong, as subsequent events have proved.

KcTaz
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 15, 2022 5:13 am

“Saddam was given every opportunity to avoid war, by allowing inspectors in and proving he had no WMD, and he chose war instead.”

There was a time I would have and did wholeheartedly agree with you. Now, I don’t think I do.
If there’s one thing the US Gov. and we, the people have demonstrated over the past 7+ decades, it is that we think everyone is like us and we don’t have a clue about other cultures, be it Islamic or Asian, or Eastern European, or African…

I think if we had understood the Islamic/ME culture back then, or had wanted to understand it, we might have realized Saddam could not have allowed inspectors in without losing face and stature in his country and the Islamic world. In their world and he was in perpetual war with Iran, it would have been viewed as a sign of weakness. In his mind and with justification I now think, had he let the inspectors in, it would have been a disaster for him both due to Iran and his own people.
At some point, we have got to start realizing everyone is not like us and do not want the same things and it’s a mistake to attempt to impose our values on cultures that are very different than ours.
Believe me, I think ours is the best, or did pre-Biden, but others do disagree with our opinion. No, I don’t understand why everyone would not embrace freedom and democracy but the fact is, not everyone does. In fact, a great many do not only disagree with it, they reject it.
That many people from these same countries flock to the US, is a sign of hope and despair as too many who come here do not want to embrace democracy and freedom but want to replicate everything they left here.
In one way, I get it as we are becoming more and more like Rome before the Fall and are rapidly losing the values that made the US a great and exceptional nation. However, I still believe in us and feel it is very wrong for other cultures to not only want to reject American values, at least as they used to be a short time ago, but to replace them with some form or another of either religious extremism, or totalitarianism, or both.

Then, again, the Democrat Party seems to be determined to do both through their religion of Climate Change, or gender, or as many other absurdities which they can concoct, so I guess I shouldn’t be complaining about immigrants wanting to change the US to whatever they left since they can’t hold a candle to Democrats

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 7:31 am

Without making any judgement of the rights or wrongs it is naive to believe that Iraqi WMD was the dominant real logic behind invading Iraq and deposing Saddam. Just look at a map and observe the locations of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Israel. Note the history of the Iran-Iraq War and increasing Iranian missile and nuclear capability. It’s way more complicated.

Mac
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 13, 2022 2:14 pm

I have been to Ukraine a number of times. Many wonderful people. Putin is a malevolent person and has stated he would like to see reformation of the Soviet Union. I spent quite a bit of time in Kiev and other cities along the Dnepr River and Karkov. His army has destroyed Ukraine and it is at great cost to Russia as well. The Russian people have seen no benefit from the war despite the oil cash; in fact the opposite inflation is high and of course many dead young men.The Donbas region saw atrocities by both Ukraine and the Russian Separatists and I think could have been settled without the blood shed and destruction. I also spent quite a bit of time in Russia as well. St Petersburg is incredible, I wonder how tourism has been affected.

HotScot
Reply to  Mac
August 13, 2022 2:46 pm

Putin is a malevolent person and has stated he would like to see reformation of the Soviet Union

I haven’t seen that, but willing to consider it in context.

Putin has worked to distance big business (Oligarchs) from state, probably why there has been no outcry from him over the west sanctioning them.

He’s also been instrumental in building 30,000 new Christian Churches across the country. That doesn’t chime with reverting to a Soviet state.

I spent quite a bit of time in Kiev and other cities along the Dnepr River and Karkov. His army has destroyed Ukraine…..

You have been there during the current conflict?

The Donbas region saw atrocities by both Ukraine and the Russian Separatists and I think could have been settled without the blood shed and destruction.

I’m inclined to agree with that however, it is a matter of record that western Ukraine was shelling eastern Ukraine for seven days before Russia crossed the border to defend the region.

I have no more time for Putin than I do for any western politician. They are all as bad. Calling him malevolent is pointless, they are all malevolent.

Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 8:20 pm

I think many people are not interested in facts

KcTaz
Reply to  HotScot
August 15, 2022 3:41 am

“Putin has worked to distance big business (Oligarchs) from state, probably why there has been no outcry from him over the west sanctioning them.”

I have not seen that anywhere. Can you tell me where you learned that information, please? Given how well our oligarchs are making out in this war, I have a hard time believing his aren’t, as well.

Reply to  Mac
August 13, 2022 8:19 pm

14000 dead in the Donbas civil war from 2014 to 2022 with deaths accelerating in 2022.
No one stopped the war over eight years.
Ukraine has a corrupt government and so does Russia. Where were all the other nations — US and UK — that pledged to help defend Ukraine in the 1990s .. when Crimea was seized in 2014?
They did nothing to defend Crimea and nothing to settle the Donbas civil war. If the Donbas REGIONS WERE ALLOWED TO VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE THEY WOULD HAVE LOST THE VOTE. THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE.

KcTaz
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 15, 2022 3:48 am

The US and UK promised Ukraine that if they gave up their nukes, we would defend them if Russian invaded. They did and we didn’t defend them. It’s called The Budapest Memorandum. They lied. (Good lesson for any other dictator with nukes, never believe the West.) They lied.
The West promised Russia Ukraine would never be allowed to join NATO if they dissolved the USSR. They lied.

I can’t stand Putin but facts are facts and we did make those promises both to Ukraine and Russia and kept neither of them.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Mac
August 14, 2022 5:02 am

“His army has destroyed Ukraine and it is at great cost to Russia as well.”

Estimates are that Putin has lost 75,000 troops killed in the fighting in Ukraine.

And the standard is to multiply the number of killed by three to get the number of wounded, so somewhere around 225,000 Russian troops wounded.

And for what? For Putin’s ego. For Putin’s delusions.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 14, 2022 5:14 am

You have no idea how many Russian troops were killed. That is not public information.

KcTaz
Reply to  Mac
August 15, 2022 3:33 am

I believe tourism is non-existent at present. However, Putin is making so much money from gas and grain, I’m sure a lack of tourists is of no concern to him.

Richard Page
Reply to  KcTaz
August 15, 2022 9:47 am

Political tourism in Ukraine has been a growth industry in the past few months, however.

HotScot
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 13, 2022 2:31 pm

Are you anti German as well?

MarkW
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 6:30 pm

Pointing out what a monster Putin is, means one is anti-Russian?

GuyFromBerlin
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 13, 2022 2:34 pm

Ukrainians ARE Russians. Get over it. “Ukrainian language” is a Russian dialect. Very obviously. In the days of a rightful government in Russia (pre-Lenin), the area was called “Little Russia” for good reason. If Putin makes an effort to reinstate the borders of 1914, more power to him. I wish Germany, Austro-Hungaria and Britain would do the same. Siding with seditious terrorists (on part of the so-called “Allies”) caused World War One (which in turn allowed vermin like Lenin and Hitler to become strong), don’t forget that. Now the EU is again on the wrong side, this time including Germany, who were lonely on the rightful side against the Serbian terrorists in 1914, and couldn’t do much against terrorism winning with US support. Toppling the Czar and the Kaiser paved the war for Hitler, Stalin, and the splintering of the Russian and Austro-Hungarian Empires into a quagmire of lawless separatists. If the USA had ever been serious about world peace, they would have sided with law and civilization (that is, with Germany and Austria) in 1914-18 and helped them stamp out the anti-human doctrines of Socialism and Democracy. Maybe doing so would have given them the strength to do away with their Constitution and become an actual Nation. Instead they chose to be a self-governed band of seditious robbers with no legitimacy.

HotScot
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 13, 2022 3:35 pm

LOL. Very good. Trot along to a science site, where facts and dissent are encouraged, get confronted by opinions you don’t like, and you take a strop. Diddums.

The current Ukraine/Russian conflict has nothing to do with the Holodomor don’t be pathetic. We are 80+years on from it. Putin wasn’t alive then.

just another crazed dictator Stalin-wannabe.

Russia has a flat rate income tax of 14%. I’m not aware it’s recruiting 180,000 armed, IRS inspectors with instructions that lethal force is approved by the state.

That income tax comes with free basic healthcare. Remind me, is that available in the US?

He has been instrumental in building 30,000 new Christian Churches in the country. Remind me, how many Churches and places of worship have BLM and antifa attacked, vandalised and burned in America recently?

Russia has its own energy supply, its food is largely home grown, cheap and plentiful.

It has a democracy only 30 years old, and it’s looking at America thinking:

“We really don’t want to be in the political condition that country is in when we are 200+ years old, they just raided the home of the best POTUS the country has had in living memory!”

And whilst the kindly Mr. Biden is calling for a globalist government, Vlad the man is calling for quite the opposite, nationalism, which is probably why he got on quite well with President Trump.

But Ta, Ta old bean, I don’t suppose you’ll be missed.

Jeroen
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 1:01 am

Russia had a campaign going the other day to encourage people to migrate to Russia. You seem to fit the bill.

Richard Page
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 14, 2022 7:00 pm

Many of my friends are Lithuanian, just saying. A post can be critical of a country such as Ukraine without being pro-Putin or have we gone so far down this road that blinkered vision is a requirement for commenting?

Last edited 1 month ago by Richard Page
KcTaz
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
August 15, 2022 4:11 am

Our son was in Ukraine during the war over Crimea, I think it was. When he returned, much to my surprise, he told me in talking with many Ukrainians, they had no issues with Russians and were, if anything, pro-Russian.
Before Putin invaded, I saw on tv many Ukrainians say they thought it was unthinkable that Putin would invade as they have inter-married with Russians so much, it would be like Putin attacking his brother. Yet, Putin did.
Bottom line, I think th iere is much we in the West do not understand about Ukraine and Russia and their relationship.
I would think they would still hate Russia over the Holdomor but it does not seem to be that way. They appear have been, from what I can tell based on the above, quite close with Russia and to not have viewed Russia as an enemy.
This surprised me but I think there is a great deal we in the West do not understand about this nor about a whole lot of Eastern Europe and it’s nations varied relationships with both Russia and the West.
For instance, I have a brand new Russian daughter-in-law. Her mother has never met our son as she can’t get a visa to the US now. She is most distressed by this war and what has been done to the Ukrainians. At the same time, in talking with her about the old Soviet Union under which she lived, too, it struck me when she talked about medical care (her mother is a doctor) and how much better it was under the old USSR than now. I would never have thought it.

Bottom line, maybe we should have a bit of humility in thinking we know all there is to know about this and Ukraine and Russia? Their relationship appears to be very complicated, I think, and we are assuming many things about it, based on western perceptions, which may well not be true.

HotScot
Reply to  Jeroen
August 13, 2022 1:51 pm

Right, here we go, back to the history of the Holodomor, which has precisely nothing to do with the current situation.

You people are obsessed with history to justify your arguments. Do you imagine Ukrainians are running around screaming “It’s the Holodomor!”?

Don’t be ridiculous. Like most of the last generation or two, even the Holocaust is a mystery to most people.

I have presented the facts in my last post. You are at liberty to confirm them as they come from reliable, independent sources.

Will the Holodomor be associated with the “winter of fuel shortages in Europe” in the pages of history? Of course not. The current event will write its own history and, were it not for the unwarranted interference by the US,UK and EU, it would be a damp squib.

The opening lines of Russia crossing into Ukraine could have been “Russia aids embattled eastern Ukraine to resist another genocidal event in Europe”. But it wasn’t, the leftist media painted it, incorrectly and maliciously, as an invasion.

Two major genocidal event went unremarked by the west until it was far too late, Rwanda and Bosnia (amongst others).

By any logical analysis, that’s precisely what Putin refused to witness but, Russia, Russia, Russia is all that counts.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Jeroen
August 13, 2022 3:49 pm

‘Do you know why there are ethnic Russians there in the first place? Holodomor…’

Probably something to do with Communism?

Editor
Reply to  Jeroen
August 13, 2022 5:22 pm

re: “Is this the mindset of WUWT readers?”. I doubt it. Anything that aligns with most WUWT readers’ mindsets tends to get a high number of +s.

re HotScot’s claim “Western Ukraine were shelling the Donbas for 7 days prior to Russia crossing the border.”.
The only reports that I can find of Ukraine shelling Donbas are on Substack “OSCE Reports Reveal Ukraine Started Shelling The Donbas Nine Days Before Russia’s ‘Special Military Operation'” and some others obviously by the same author. Russia’s military operation began on 24 Feb 2022. The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM) ended on 31 Mar 2022. I can find no indication of such shelling on the OSCE website. The SMM were clearly in the region on 23 Feb 2022, and reported hostility from a Russian unit but reported no Ukrainian shelling.
Any reports of Ukraine shelling Donbas before the Russion invasion appear to be incorrect. If so, then I can speculate that they are Russian disinformation, but it is impossible of course to be sure.

Reply to  Mike Jonas
August 13, 2022 8:22 pm

Do you honestly believe the Ukraine military published news releases every time they shelled the Donbas region?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Mike Jonas
August 14, 2022 5:13 am

“Any reports of Ukraine shelling Donbas before the Russion invasion appear to be incorrect. If so, then I can speculate that they are Russian disinformation, but it is impossible of course to be sure.”

That would be my guess. The Russians are very good at disinformation.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Mike Jonas
August 14, 2022 5:15 am

“re HotScot’s claim “Western Ukraine were shelling the Donbas for 7 days prior to Russia crossing the border.”.
The only reports that I can find of Ukraine shelling Donbas are on Substack “OSCE Reports Reveal Ukraine Started Shelling The Donbas Nine Days Before Russia’s ‘Special Military Operation’” and some others obviously by the same author.”

So the excusers of Putin have one source for their claims that Ukraine started the war. I’m not surprised.

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Jeroen
August 14, 2022 12:36 am

The Holodomor is the background of the intense dislike of the Russian state in particular in west Ukraine. Putin calls such attitudes: ‘nazism’, and because he doesn’t like not being universally respected, such ‘nazism’ has to be eradicated.

Richard Page
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
August 14, 2022 7:16 pm

The Kyiv ‘Asgardrei’ National Socialist festival and annual gathering of neo-nazi’s probably didn’t help either. I think it was that and the swastika’s superimposed onto the Ukraine flag that may have inspired the ‘nazism’ idea in other peoples minds. Frankly I would wish for that kind of behaviour to be eradicated as well, although I condemn the Russian invasion and just wish the western Ukrainians would have had the decency to clean house themselves.

Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 1:03 pm

Czar Ras-Putin needs lebensraum….Ruzzia needs more territory for its people who are living in Poland and western Czechoslovakia and being mistreated by meanies…they could just move to Ruzzia but Putey is an idiot…..and a war criminal.

HotScot
Reply to  Anti-griff
August 13, 2022 2:04 pm

Well, that was analytical. The largest country in the world, twice the size of the USA, can’t accommodate the same population as the USA………

Talking of war criminals, did you mention Cheney and Blair? Amongst many other profiteering western warmongers.

Of course not.

Meanwhile, of all those embattled Rooski’s who live under the boot of Pootinski, but who have been free to travel the world since 1991, none are flooding across the US southern border, and none bobbing across the English Channel in RIBS.

Gosh, that’s a conundrum, other than Pootinski has a domestic 83% approval rating (eat your heart out every single western politician) and he has finally freed the country from the Rothschilds owned IMF and World Bank. He’s also kicked the WHO out the country.

Meanwhile, his BRICS allies, more than half the worlds population, refuse to condemn him.

But the west is right, again, and you are righter than right, because you can sneer really, really well.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 1:42 pm

Mainly Biden (The Big Guy). He may fear info dug up on Hunter’s business deals (and his own?), etc. Apparently documents abandoned at viral research labs by withdrawing Ukraine forces had documents mentioning Hunter in some management and Department of Defence.

This is only hearsay and likely propaganda for now. Any bad publicity on the Bidens coming out before the election would would guarantee a black eye for the Democrats as a whole.

HotScot
Reply to  Gary Pearse
August 13, 2022 2:12 pm

I really wish it were that simple, but I’m convinced it’s not. Hunter is bait. There are copies of that hard drive everywhere. There are copies of copies, I’m surprised we can’t get one from Amazon.

“It’s the WEF though!”

Do we really imagine Russia and China are going to take orders from the fatherly fantasist Mr. Schwab?

KcTaz
Reply to  HotScot
August 15, 2022 7:24 am

No, but they are not the problem for us. It is the US and other western nations who will take orders from them, not Russia or China, that is the problem.

KcTaz
Reply to  Gary Pearse
August 15, 2022 7:21 am

Apparently not propaganda but true. Does this surprise you, or anyone? It doesn’t me.

Hunter Biden helped secure millions in funding for military biotech
research program in Ukraine
https://mol.im/a/10652127
3/25/22

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 12:25 am

But many of those ‘ethnic Russians’ did not want to be ‘defended’ by Russia and certainly not by Putin’s Russia. Apart from a less than 30% minority of pro-russia diehards, the majority were not interested in their ‘independent’ oblasts. There have been polls on that.

Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
August 14, 2022 5:23 am

Most of those in the Donbas region did not want independence and few wanted to be part of Russia. If allowed to vote on independence they would have remained part of Ukraine. Common sense would have been to allow a vote and the separatists would have lost. the vote, probably 65% to 35%, or 70% to 30%, assuming an honest election. No vote was allowed. Civilians were killed. In 2019 Ukraine’s parliament approved a law on that grants special status to the Ukrainian language and makes it mandatory for public sector workers, a move Russia described as divisive and said discriminated against Russian-speakers.

That is equivalent to Canada limiting the use of the French language. According to the 2016 census, English and French are the mother tongues of 56.0% and 21.4% of Canadians respectively. In total, 86.2% of Canadians have a working knowledge of English, while 29.8% have a working knowledge of French.

DATA SOURCE:
Languages of Canada – Wikipedia

KcTaz
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 15, 2022 7:38 am

I don’t still have the link because I accidentally drowned my computer and even Apple could not retrieve any data from it but I recall at the time, Russian tv accidentally published the results of that election. It was overwhelmingly in favor of remaining in Ukraine . Of course, the Russian Gov. took it down and published their “official” results that were quite different.

I wonder if the Democrats followed the Russian example, or the Russians followede their example?

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 4:44 am

“Putin has done precisely what he said he would do, defend the ethnic Russian population of eastern Ukraine.” He’s now killed thousands of Russian speakers in the Donbas and elsewhere in Ukraine, such as Mariuple.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 14, 2022 5:25 am

How do you know?
Was there a press release?

Mark Whitney
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 6:01 am

Finally, someone with a grasp of reality. The corrupt Ukrainian government supported by an equally corrupt Western cabal is indeed the aggressor. The eight years of attacks following a CIA backed coup in 2014, the expansion of NATO despite promises to the contrary and the villification of Russia for US political games is entirely ignored by the “Bald Man Bad” cheerleaders.
Strange how people will decry the drinking of the climate Kool-Aid, but gladly swallow the Ukraine brand of similar poison.

IKcTaz
Reply to  Mark Whitney
August 15, 2022 7:55 am

Yes, I have to agree with you, Mark, but I must admit I, initially and for too long, swallowed the “the Ukraine brand of similar poison.”
It’s only when I started to realize that all the WEF/NWO sorts were repeating that line, along with Biden, Trudeau and even Boris, that I began to have doubts and starteyg is rotten in Denmark” applies quite well to this debacle.
Nothing about it is making sense. I’m to the point of wondering if Putin is in on it for it’s vast money making opportunities, or not.
All I know for sure is that none of this makes any sense at all.

Barry Malcolm
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 2:40 pm

The Ukraine war started in 2014 (not counting centuries of conflict) aided by the USA overthrowing a democratically elected government. The Ukronazis backed overthrow makes Jan 6th looks like a sit-in protest.

IKcTaz
Reply to  Barry Malcolm
August 15, 2022 8:02 am

I honestly don’t know and can’t agree with that. The Russians have a Nazi group, too, the Wagner Group which fought against the US in Syria and other places. Some say the

Russian State TV Just Blew Up Putin’s ‘Nazi Ukraine’ Bullsh*t
https://bit.ly/3bUUFsq
Updated Mar. 05, 2022

Reply to  Curious George
August 13, 2022 12:46 pm

Russia stopped an ethnic genocide in Ukraine where 11,000 Russian speaking Ukrainian civilians had been murdered by the Ukraine military since 2014 In a Ukrainian civil war.

Some of those civilians in the Donbas region of Ukraine wanted a vote to become an independent nation. It is unlikely that more than one third would have voted for independence.

Kiev denied the opportunity to vote. The citizen “rebels” were subject artillery bombardment and snipers. Abut 3,000 Ukrainian military also died in the civil war, Russia decided to stop the Ukrainian civil war in 2022, claiming this was an ongoing genocide against Russian speaking Ukrainians, which was escalating in 2022.

You might want to study the history of Ukraine
— it’s even available in Wikipedia:

War in Donbas (2014–2022) – Wikipedia

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Curious George
August 14, 2022 12:20 am

Long before Alaska is next, emperor Xi will have annexed all Siberian lands east of the Amur river. Which was controlled by China for centuries until the 18th when Russia usurped it.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
August 14, 2022 5:22 am

Yes, that’s something to think about.

Ole Putin is expending all his ammunition in Ukraine. And losing a lot of troops at the same time.

I wonder how that will figure into the calculations of some?

Drake
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 11:13 am

The day may come soon when the US will require “energy” exports to be paid in US dollars. Of course that will only happen after the world finally determines the US dollar should no longer be the world reserve currency. If Democrats maintain control of the congress and somehow win the presidency again in 2024, that awakening will be coming ever sooner.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Drake
August 14, 2022 5:24 am

If the Democrats maintain control, then the rest of us are pretty much screwed.

Then we will go off the cliff. We are on the edge now. Don’t vote for Democrats if you know what’s good for you.

HotScot
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 12:10 pm

This is caused by EU nations making a choice that hurts them — they won’t pay in Rubles — the banking sanctions are not Russia’s fault

100%!

Cutting ones nose off to spite your face springs immediately to mind.

starzmom
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 4:13 pm

On the other hand their first problem was allowing themselves to become dependent on Russian gas. Probably not the best decision made, but driven by green ideals.

HotScot
Reply to  starzmom
August 13, 2022 4:52 pm

Agree entirely. Germany painted itself into a corner and Russia obliged by standing on the neck of a historic rival. Germany has always had ambitions of conquering Russia for its natural resources.

Putin has stated in speeches that he will use the current situation to expose the western elite, the climate scam, and western financial misdeeds. Frankly, gas is a transitory issue. Putin can’t afford not to sell the stuff to Europe.

He’s already done what no western country has managed, he’s extricated his country from the Rothschild owned IMF and World bank, and kicked the WHO out the country.

I recall Trump expressing the same ambitions for the WHO, at least.

If Trump is elected in 2024, I suspect we will see a very different man. Whilst his diplomacy wasn’t his defining feature last time around, I suspect it will be very low on his list relative to American politics.

Not that I think revenge will be his motivating emotion, rather, the determination to clean up American, and by extension, western politics.

The legacy that faces Trump is immense and of lasting value, beyond that even of imaginary climate concerns.

I suspect Trump will go in for the kill if elected, and the world will be a better place for many years to come.

Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 5:30 am

Russia did not stand on Germany’s neck.

Gazprom wants to sell as much natural gas as possible to Germany and the rest of EU. They require payment in Rubles because of banking sanctions on Russia.

Many nations that need and want natural gas are refusing to do business with Gazprom in Rubles. That is not Russia fault. The Russian government want Gazprom to make lots of profits and pay lots of taxes. gazprom wants to make lots of profits. Germany wants to puish Russia by punishing themselves.

Could I possibly explain this in any simpler language?

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 7:56 am

Except that you are demonstrably wrong. Germany has been paying for gas in roubles, yet finds that supply via the Yamal pipeline across Belarus and Poland has been cut for months, while Nordstream volumes are just 20% of capacity, despite crossing the Baltic ocean from Russia direct to Griefswald, while the Russians invent trumped up excuses about compressor stations and threaten to close it altogether.

It is quite clear that Putin is conducting a supply squeeze in the expectation he can extract big concessions (such as the occupation of much of the Ukraine) from Europe. Winter wholesale gas prices in Europe are already at $60/MMBtu, and baseload power at ~$1,000/MWh.

KcTaz
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
August 15, 2022 5:27 am

From what I have read, everything you wrote is true. Germany is doing just that. Thanks to Biden, Putin is getting even richer than he already was. Only the West is being hurt by Biden’s Russian sanctions.

This is exactly why Trump sanctioned Nordstream II and told Europe if it was completed, they would be subject to blackmail by Putin. Well, thanks to Biden and his disastrous killing of US energy production, that has happened.
It does seem that Biden is Putin’s best friend and has managed to give him everything he could ever have wanted even in his wildest dreams.
Biden is Putin’s best friend.

Richard Page
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
August 15, 2022 9:59 am

Yes and no. Germany is not paying for gas in roubles but some individual German companies are and some are not. This makes the situation extremely complex as some companies that have paid are getting their full supply while those that haven’t are getting nothing. Add to that issue the fact that Ukraine arbitrarily shut down a large section of pipeline for some reason and the situation becomes far from clear.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 5:34 am

“I suspect Trump will go in for the kill if elected, and the world will be a better place for many years to come.”

I hope he gets a chance because that’s about what we need right now.

Trump admitted he was naive about how wide and deep the Washington DC Swamp really was. Now he knows. And he is promising a lot of reform if he is elected.

The corrupt Democrats are still attacking him using the power of the federal govenment, but the public seems to be catching on to their tactics and it may backfire on them.

The Democrats are counting on it not backfiring on them and if it doesn’t, then they gain complete control of the United States and will hold it using these same authoritarian methods in the future to shape the vote the way they want it. They will guarantee themselves a place at the top.

The stakes are high for all of us.

KcTaz
Reply to  HotScot
August 15, 2022 5:18 am

I agree if, that is, they don’t kill him first.

Richard Page
Reply to  KcTaz
August 15, 2022 10:03 am

As has been seen in previous cases, the first stage of that is to have him arrested and in custody. I’m still surprised at the low survival rate of people with incriminating and extremely damaging information on governments and Presidents while waiting for trial. sarc

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 14, 2022 7:08 am

How do companies get roubles to use to pay for gas? They do a foreign exchange transaction, selling dollars or euros for roubles. What happens to the dollars or euros? They are deposited at the bank that provided the roubles. Which banks can provide roubles? Only Russian banks. They get their roubles back again when payment for gas is made. But they still have useless balances of dollars and euros piling up.

Why do they bother? Since the dollars and euros are now in Russian banks perhaps third counties may take them in payment for exports to Russia, thus laundering supposedly embargoed balances. Not entirely easy to do outside the SWIFT system, and supposedly not possible inside it.

Contract prices for gas to Europe are set in euros. By converting the price at a historic exchange rate and then demanding a much higher exchange rate to buy roubles the Russians achieve a substantial price increase. It may not help them much if they can’t spend the euros, but it inflicts pain on European customers without nominally changing the contract price in euros.

KcTaz
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
August 15, 2022 5:33 am

I won’t say I really understand what you wrote but you may well be making good sense. I just don’t know enough about it to know. If Russia only takes rubles for payments, how are dollars and euros piling up in their banks? I don’t get that. What am I missing?

tgasloli
August 13, 2022 11:03 am

The poverty created by climate change policies is considered a feature not a flaw.

Pillage Idiot
Reply to  tgasloli
August 13, 2022 12:10 pm

“If a few million peasants have to die to support our misanthropic ideals, then that is a sacrifice we are willing to make!”

— World Economic Forum 2022 consensus (slight paraphrase)

HotScot
Reply to  Pillage Idiot
August 13, 2022 12:36 pm

Seems fair.

R_G
Reply to  Pillage Idiot
August 13, 2022 6:34 pm

I would call it a translation from the “new speak” to normal language.

KcTaz
Reply to  Pillage Idiot
August 15, 2022 5:35 am

“One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. Instead, climate change policy is about how we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth.”
Ottmar Edenhofer, lead author of the IPCC

“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue.
Even if the theory of global warming is wrong,
we will be doing the right thing in terms of
economic and environmental policy.“
– Timothy Wirth,

President of the UN Foundation
“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” – Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme (UNEP)

“Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake, use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.” – Maurice Strong, Secretary General of the UN’s Earth Summit, 1992.

Kevin R.
Reply to  tgasloli
August 13, 2022 1:34 pm

I consider it a crime against humanity.

Redge
Reply to  Kevin R.
August 13, 2022 11:18 pm

In the misanthropic world of the greens, there can be no crimes against humanity

KcTaz
Reply to  Kevin R.
August 15, 2022 5:39 am

Yeah, but you are a person with normal, previous to these times and definitely previous to Brandon, fairly universal values. Your opinion, which is accurate, was prevalent before a bunch of billionaire psychopaths started running the world.

Terry
August 13, 2022 11:11 am

Anybody still doubt that it’s become a full scale religion with every bad and oppressive feature. It’s inquisition time folks, and a few bodies will just sharpen people’s minds.

Doonman
August 13, 2022 11:15 am

Something must be done about people who pollute. After all, it is the polluters that control the climate by polluting it. We are all on this spaceship earth together and it’s too crowded to pollute. It’s unsustainable. We are running out of resources. It’s all the polluters fault.

Sound familiar? Replace “Polluters” with “Jews” for effect.

HotScot
Reply to  Doonman
August 13, 2022 12:33 pm

I have to laugh. If it’s not Jews it’s Muslims.

Who knew a tiny region in the middle of a desert could impose complete political and military control over the rest of the world, whilst America and Europe have most of the money in the world.

America and Russia with the biggest nuclear arsenals in the world, with China in the rear view mirror, but Jews and/or Muslims control it all.

Although, I guess if we’re all happy to believe a tiny, flat broke, corrupt nation on the outskirts of Europe can affect European energy supply more effectively that two world wars could, I guess it’s reasonable.

“Those damn Americans/Germans are screwing up the world agai……….” SQUIRREL!!!!!!!!

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 2:51 pm

You really are a bigoted sick man aren’t you.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 3:59 pm

LOL. Do you even understand what the term bigoted means?

My post is clear. Whilst the OP attacked Jews I pointed out that a tiny nation and its Muslim neighbour can hardly be held responsible for the world’s woes, but many people do.

They blame one or the other. They are by definition, bigots.

Seduced, perhaps, by the Christian/Muslim confrontation so beloved of our MSM, to stir up emotion in order to sell newsprint.

Mine is the antithesis of bigoted.

The west has rampaged across the globe, in various guises, for hundreds of years, persecuting, enslaving, subjugating and terrorising innumerable countries, but somehow pointing this out makes me bigoted?

You use the term bigoted like the left uses the term racist, and you understand neither. It suits your narrow minded perspective that you are inviolably correct because you believe that anyone who doesn’t conform to your haughty standards is beneath contempt.

Your recourse to a solution?

Call people names like a schoolyard child.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 6:46 pm

“America and Russia with the biggest nuclear arsenals in the world, with China in the rear view mirror, but Jews and/or Muslims control it all.”
It’s the Jews… It’s the Muslims… it’s the… well anyone not like me.

Redge
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 11:28 pm

Whilst the OP attacked Jews 

He didn’t, he pointed out the Jews were the victims of unfair treatment.

Mine is the antithesis of bigoted.

I disagree.

Your immediate response to point the finger at your misinterpretation suggests underlying bigotry and a desperate need to cover up your bigotry, much like the UK’s Labour Party who preach everyone is equal and justice for all whilst not ejecting their large antisemite contingent (Corbin et al)

KcTaz
Reply to  HotScot
August 15, 2022 5:54 am

“My post is clear.”
No, it is not clear at all. Maybe you could try again in plain English? I’ve agreed with you, much to my surprise, quite often tonight. I have no idea what you’re trying to say here, though.

Redge
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 11:21 pm

 If it’s not Jews it’s Muslims.

That’s not what Doonman was saying

It’s your, perhaps deliberate, interpretation of what Doonman was saying

KcTaz
Reply to  Redge
August 15, 2022 5:56 am

Yes, I think you nailed it, Redge. I know I’m confused.

KcTaz
Reply to  HotScot
August 15, 2022 5:49 am

We have no idea, really, what China’s nuclear arsenal is but it may well be greater than that of the US. Beyond that, I have no idea what you’re trying to say but it doesn’t sound very good. I have no idea what country is flat broke on the outskirts of Europe. It’s sure as heck isn’t Israel or any oil-rich Arab nation.
Could you try that again and be specific this time, please?

August 13, 2022 11:49 am

The public are already rising up in many countries against policies designed to kill off or impoverish most of the human race, and the public are not wrong. If any heads must roll, they need to be the ones imposing these policies on us. The earth is ours to keep using.

HotScot
August 13, 2022 12:06 pm

Economic activity that fuels growth also drives deadly weather events. The Ukraine war has forced Europe to rethink its reliance on Russian energy

Nope, I can’t see a relationship between those two sentences either.

It’s always just word salad. Is anyone on the left capable of actually reading any longer?

KcTaz
Reply to  HotScot
August 15, 2022 6:03 am

As far as I can tell, the answer is a resounding NO! Though, I must admit, I wonder about quite a few on the Right, too, these days. Quite frankly, Trump seems to be the person with the most common sense these days and ability to see the truth through the garbage which is abundant on both sides. Of course, way more on the Left than the Right because the Left has gone full-on insane but too many on the Right are not seeing through the cr@p, either.

Tom Abbott
August 13, 2022 12:24 pm

War over Taiwan won’t do anybody any good.

The Chicom leadership needs to do something about that dangerous ego trip Xi is on. New leadership is called for. Taiwan isn’t going to sail off over the horizon. It will be right there tomorrow and the day after that. There’s no hurry to do anything, except in an ego-maniac’s mind.

HotScot
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2022 12:40 pm

When the west is acting like complete arseholes, it would be irresponsible of Xi not to enrich his country by taking advantage.

Don’t blame anyone else, this is our fault.

Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 1:07 pm

Boycott Ruzzia….boycott China.

HotScot
Reply to  Anti-griff
August 13, 2022 2:16 pm

Throw your computer in the trash. It’s made in China……

Sorry folks. Anti-Griff is now offline forever. He’s fulfilling his mantra.

KcTaz
Reply to  Anti-griff
August 15, 2022 6:21 am

Tell that to politicians and corporate heads in both Parties. We have been getting sold out to China for several decades by all of them. Trump stopped it and they’ve been trying to destroy him for 5 years because he threatened their gravy train.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 2:00 pm

“this is our fault.”

Ridiculous.

Now you are making excuses for the Chicoms, too, huh.

You seem to like murderous dictators.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
HotScot
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2022 3:05 pm

making excuses for the Chicoms???

Wait a GD minute. Did the Chinese install Biden as America’s POTUS?

Did the Chinese concoct the climate scam?

Did the Chinese force the west to move all productivity to their country?

Are the Chinese people entitled to as good a life as the west?

Haven’t the Chinese been the very ones to spit in the eye of our home grown climate scammers?

Did the Chinese force you to buy every appliance in your house made in their country, including the PC you’re tapping out your nonsense on?

No, that was the free choice afforded you by your own constitution. Your freedom of choice exercised by you alone.

Jeez….Typical, blame anyone else but yourself for your own woes.

Don’t like the Chinese? I don’t suppose we’ll be hearing from you again as you’ll chuck you Chinese made PC in the trash, along with your fridge, dishwasher, A/C, heating controls, your car electronics, your telephone (mobile or otherwise) – you name it mate, you’re back to living in the cold and dark. It was your choice entirely to participate in the growth of China.

I don’t like murderous dictators, I’m just alive to the sources of their success. And it certainly wasn’t the Chinese peasant’s who were largely grubbing in fields for sustenance, it was people like you (and me) who have bought Chinese goods for the last 50+ years.

Don’t like it?

Blame yourself mate. Don’t be a hypocrite for the rest of your life.

MarkW
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 6:36 pm

As near as I can figure out, your position is that if we aren’t strong enough to prevent Xi from taking stuff, then it’s our fault when Xi takes stuff.

I guess this is why you support Putin, he’s strong enough to take the stuff he wants, therefore he is in the right.

KcTaz
Reply to  MarkW
August 15, 2022 6:30 am

Sorry, Mark, he’s right. Clinton opened up China to the US and Western world markets. All of a sudden, we no longer cared about human rights abuses. Our politicians, until Trump, gave them all the power and money they wanted and desired.

China bought our politicians and corporations lock, stock and barrel. HotScot is right on this one. They, also, bought our universities, to include access to cutting edge research, with the full approval of our politicians, both sides.
Biden is making all of this much worse. What else is he going to do since, thanks to Hunter and the Big Guy and the Biden Family Crime syndicate, they have enough to blackmail him from here to eternity?

MarkW
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 6:35 pm

Not being in a position to defend Taiwan, means it’s our fault that Xi tries to take it over.

I’ve heard of people who feel that it’s your fault your stuff is taken if you aren’t strong enough to keep it.
I never thought I would meet one.

KcTaz
Reply to  MarkW
August 15, 2022 6:38 am

We were strong enough to keep our stuff from being taken. Our politicians, except for Trump, were bought off and cheerfully sold us to China for fun and their profit, MarkW.
Good grief, Mark, where have you been? This, with the exception of the Trump years, has been going on ever since Clinton opened us up to China.
Do you have any idea how much US farm land China owns and how many US corporations they have a stake in, or own?

Did you forget that all of the stupid windmills and solar panels and batteries that are made in China while, btw, China is building coal plants in their country and around the world like crazy but, somehow, to the climate nutters, find no fault with China?

KcTaz
Reply to  HotScot
August 15, 2022 6:18 am

It is our fault thanks to greedy politicians on both sides who suck up to China and have been utterly corrupted by their money. It is way more Democrats than R’s but way too many Rs are doing it, too. McConnell is a prime example.

I have no idea what you mean by “our fault.” You need to be more specific. I will say, I do know that our politicians have been quite happy to take Xi’s money. Many of them on both sides have practically sold America to the Chinese for fun and profit including American corporations, but mostly for profit, I assume, but some for fun, too, because we’ve elected too many people who hate our guts and are in it not only for the money but to destroy this nation.
The Democrats have worked very hard for decades to create a US population of brain-washed dummies. They have, to a great extent, succeeded with a great number of their dummies ending up in the US pressl in Congress and, even more, in US academia. Meanwhile, fat and happy Republican politicians, until Trump, were more than happy to accommodate them.

Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 12:58 pm

Imagine if all the people killed from wars in the last 120 years had not been killed and then reproduced, and their offspring reproduced and those offspring reproduced etc. etc. etc
How large would the human population be by now?

HotScot
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 13, 2022 2:29 pm

Western birth rates are in serious decline. 2.1 children per female is required to just sustain a population. Europe is well below that and I believe America is as well, allowing for the illegal immigration.

The reason is, prosperity. As people get richer, they have fewer children. Look at it as a self adjusting human response to the dangers of over population.

Make the whole planet wealthy, which the UN predicts will be around 2021 and 9Bn population, and the global population is predicted to fall rather rapidly.

So, we look to developing nations to blame for growing populations, and the greens are trying to kill them off by denying them cheap, reliable, fossil fuel for energy. The problem is, they just keep reproducing because large families are required to support the elderly who have scant provision for medical or welfare when they are old and infirm.

The west’s solution?

Give the young men condoms, free, so they can wear them on their heads when they are drunk and partying.

Instead, how about the west provides support for the elderly as a leg up to these nations. If the elderly are well looked after there’s no need for large families. Voila, populations cease to grow.

Over simplistic I know, but I hope you get my point.

starzmom
Reply to  HotScot
August 13, 2022 4:19 pm

The most important thing you can do to limit fertility and alleviate poverty is educate women. In all the places that have high fertility, women are uneducated and also poor.

HotScot
Reply to  starzmom
August 13, 2022 5:08 pm

How many years have we been trotting out this condescending crap. You don’t think women know how they get pregnant? They have hundreds of thousands of years of experience.

This is just the most pathetic, sexist nonsense still circulating the world.

Education is vital, but not to teach women what fuck!ng is and what it produces, it’s to educate them how to progress in life. how to count and write, how to use a smartphone, how to be independent, how to start an a business, how hygiene works, how to access medication etc.

Dear god, people are not stupid, it’s dumb westerners that encourage stupidity with their superior manner.

Clearly you don’t get the motivation for large families. It’s so numerous children, earning pennies from grubbing a living, can collectively contribute to feed their elderly parents. These people don’t have welfare, they rely on a family unit, the bigger the better, whilst overcoming appalling child mortality.

This is a huge subject I could go on for, at length but, fundamentally, the west is stealing developing nations future with our climate obsession.

HotScot
Reply to  starzmom
August 13, 2022 5:10 pm

How many years have we been trotting out this condescending nonsense. You don’t think women know how they get pregnant? They have hundreds of thousands of years of experience.

This is just the most pathetic, sexist nonsense still circulating the world.

Education is vital, but not to teach women what intercourse is and what it produces, it’s to educate them how to progress in life. how to count and write, how to use a smartphone, how to be independent, how to start an a business, how hygiene works, how to access medication etc.

Dear goodness, people are not stupid, it’s dumb westerners that encourage stupidity with their superior manner.

Clearly you don’t get the motivation for large families. It’s so numerous children, earning pennies from grubbing a living, can collectively contribute to feed their elderly parents. These people don’t have welfare, they rely on a family unit, the bigger the better, whilst overcoming appalling child mortality.

This is a huge subject I could go on for, at length but, fundamentally, the west is stealing developing nations future with our climate obsession.

TonyG
Reply to  HotScot
August 14, 2022 10:58 am

The most important thing you can do to limit fertility and alleviate poverty is educate women. In all the places that have high fertility, women are uneducated and also poor.”

“You don’t think women know how they get pregnant?”
“Education is vital, but not to teach women what intercourse is and what it produces”

If anyone wants an excellent example of a straw-man argument, here you go.

KcTaz
Reply to  HotScot
August 15, 2022 7:04 am

Gosh, HotScot, I’m agreeing with you so much tonight, I may start questioning my sanity, or something. You’re right.

I’d add, Western nations have always tried to impose our values on the developing world while understanding nothing about them. I’d add, it was often done with good intentions but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
It is ironic that the Left is so into condemning the west for their alleged “racism” and superiority in their attitudes and actions on on the third world but these same people are blind to their own racism and imposition of their “superiority” today and are, indeed, utterly ignorant of their very real problems as well as their values which don’t match those of the West.

KcTaz
Reply to  starzmom
August 15, 2022 6:54 am

Those places, also, have high infant/child death rates. Perhaps, helping their infants survive would have a positive effect, as well?
Also, even though I, at times, can get irritated with my children and grandchildren, I do not consider them anything but a great blessing. If I could have, I would have had more than two children and we are not poor and I am educated. I would have loved to have another child but it was not to be.
Perhaps the desire to limit women’s fertility does not come from the best place in your heart and soul?
I don’t know but I’m not sure a desire for more money as opposed to more kids is the best choice for humanity, or a “noble” goal. I find the desire to kill as many of us as they can ideology of the WEF/NWO totally and appallingly evil.

KcTaz
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 15, 2022 6:39 am

Making war and death sound like a good thing is the sign of a very sick mind and even sicker soul.

6CA7
August 13, 2022 1:02 pm

And what will it do to the levels of atmospheric co2? Damn little.

And what will the hardly affected levels of atmospheric co2 do to the climate? Damn little.

AndyHce
August 13, 2022 3:42 pm

You remember, don’t you, that heretics were not burned at the stake to punish them but to save their souls from eternal damnation.

Ed Hanley
August 14, 2022 1:54 am

Adults exhibiting mass insanity is not good for the mental health of children. Just saying.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Ed Hanley
August 14, 2022 6:16 am

Children today have a lot of work to do sorting out the true from the false. It helps greatly if they have parents who are rooted in reality. Otherwise, they have a tough row to hoe.

Mark Whitney
August 14, 2022 6:23 am

There really is just a single focus that should be considered. The goal of the elite is to remain the elite and to maintain and expand control. That is certainly nothing new.
Any development that can be used to compel the goal, or distract attention from it is a useful tool. Climate fear, hyperventilated pandemic, white supremacy, Russian aggression, and the myriad other crises served as daily fodder to the herd have only that one purpose.
Be assured that there is no concern for “the people” or “the children”, for women, or for any race, ethnicity, or aspect of privation. The only “crimes” of Russia, or Iraq, or Libya, or Iran is that they want to play by monetary and policy rules other than those imposed by would-be masters of the universe and the mighty dollar.
My default position is that everything is a lie unless it goes against a “consensus” and even then I remember the words of one instructor from my past. If someone tells you something the best reply is “That depends”.

August 14, 2022 10:57 am

What’s happened to anti-war protest? Whether one agrees with it or not, a democracy would be expected to see such protests when a country is at war, as America and its Europe clients now are by proxy in Ukraine.

Back in the Vietnam war the protests were everywhere. By Iraq they were still prominent in the media but less intense. But now with Ukraine? No dissenting voice anywhere in the media.

With media dissent stamped out and Trump soon to be in prison – can someone remind me why the US is somehow more democratic than Russia? Or has even that claim now been left behind?

Kemaris
August 14, 2022 5:32 pm

No, really, a major war that leads to a massive human die off is exactly what the radical Leftists ordered for “the Climate”.

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