America’s Favorite Vehicle:  Priced Out of the Market

News Brief by Kip Hansen —  14 August 2022

The truly venerable Ford F-150 pick-up truck, America’s best selling vehicle, stands to become priced far too high for most Americans to afford.

According to a report today in the New York Times Business section, the new plug-in electric version of the F-150, the Ford F-150 Lightning, will carry a sticker price ranging from about $47,000 to $97,000 – and may have a delivery waiting period of three years

Today’s cash price for a gasoline powered 2022 Ford F-150-XL is $33,315, while the Lightning F-150 XLT  is listed at $53,000.

~ ~ ~

Dear Federal Government; Thank you for helping average Americans find life more affordable, especially those of us living on fixed social security incomes, who will no longer be able to purchase the America’s #1 Favorite Car – which happens to be a truck.

# # # # #

Author’s Comment:

Conflict of Interest statement:  I do not own a pickup truck or a Ford.  I do not own, as far as I know, any stock in the Ford Motor Company.  I am, however, a native U.S. Citizen and I do vote, every election (politicians take note!).

Thanks for reading.

# # # # #

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4E Douglas
August 13, 2022 2:11 pm

Rebuilt Chevy tahoe for less than 10,000 now good for at least 10 -15 years. You might want to think about that for any older rig.

Reply to  4E Douglas
August 13, 2022 2:24 pm

They’ll ban them. For your own good 🙂

Redge
Reply to  Curious George
August 13, 2022 11:35 pm

ICEs have already been banned in the UK from 2030

No mention of how all those EVs will be charged, no mention of how people living in apartments will charge their EVs, and no mention of who pays and how for all the new infrastructure and unreliable energy

Last edited 1 month ago by Redge
Editor
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 2:55 am

What with Ev’s, Heat pumps and general electrification the UK will need 3 times the current level of electricity within 15 years.

Quite where its to come from, as Nuclear, coal and gas power stations are ‘retired’ is anyone’s guess. Greenies seem unable to realise that reliable base load power does not describe the intermittent output of weather dependent renewables.

tonyb

Redge
Reply to  tonyb
August 14, 2022 3:30 am

The only reason greens call wind and solar “renewable” is because they need renewing every time there’s a fire or the hail breaks them

😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂

another ian
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 3:36 am

Or otherwise about every 15 years independent of any electricity produced

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 10:56 am

A few heads of state have fallen because of excess zeal to make their citizens more green and hungry. 2030 is a long way away. By 2050, even the survivors of pitchforks and torches in the streets will have died of old age. Even outed BoJo was going for coal at the time.

ATheoK
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 5:38 pm

The only reason greens call wind and solar “renewable”

Renewable is an adjective and subject to use under ‘Marketing’ in that it doesn’t mean anything real.

Adjectives are meant to infer emotional impact, not definitive real world information.

Yooper
Reply to  tonyb
August 14, 2022 7:50 am
max
Reply to  tonyb
August 14, 2022 8:13 am

Experience is the cruelest teacher. For some, she is the only teacher.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  max
August 14, 2022 11:19 am

For others, religion prohibits recognition.

Loydo
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 14, 2022 3:01 pm

Venerate: hallowed by religious, historic, or other lofty associations.

You criticise climate science as a religion but venerate a motor vehicle. False gods much?

Ian Smith
Reply to  tonyb
August 14, 2022 5:30 pm

It’s very simple. You won’t be allowed to own a car or travel, through a combination of regulation and pricing. We have already been programed to think of who is an essential worker.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  tonyb
August 15, 2022 9:57 am

The ones I’ve talked with think the electric utility has everything under control and the grid will always grow as fast as we need it to grow.

Gerry, England
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 3:32 am

Just to clarify – sales of new diesel and petrol is set to be banned from 2030. Hybrids will be banned from sale in 2035.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Gerry, England
August 14, 2022 6:34 am

According to the motoring organisation the RAC there are currently around 460,000 BEVs and 384,000 PHEVs on the road in the UK.

This compares to over 33 million cars in total. There is no way all cars in the UK are going to be electric by 2030 and sooner or later the politicians will have to wake up to this fact and change the 2030 date.

michael hart
Reply to  Dave Andrews
August 14, 2022 1:45 pm

I’m having fun speculating about what will happen when reality strikes home. It’s really getting quite close now.
Will the value of second-hand ICE vehicles soar as people refuse to buy electric and go for an ICE vehicle to last them another decade or two?

ATheoK
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 14, 2022 6:02 pm

Those tens of thousands dollars in the cost difference buys a lot of gasoline.

Attempts by the government to make gasoline super expensive, will only incite a black market.

As demonstrated by booze and drug black markets, they cause criminal enterprises supplying what the government wants to restrict.

Bryan A
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 14, 2022 8:50 pm

They’d do better to stop using FF and drive the prices so low, it becomes uneconomic to pump and refine at a profit

Redge
Reply to  michael hart
August 14, 2022 11:09 pm

That’s my plan

Bryan A
Reply to  Dave Andrews
August 14, 2022 8:47 pm

They won’t be All EVs. The existing Gas/Diesel powered versions will still be on the road…until they run out of fuel then they’ll be worthless and there will immediately be far fewer cars on the roads. Perhaps a mass protest of abandoning ICE vehicles ON THE ROADS eliminating the roadways usefulness for EVs

Last edited 1 month ago by Bryan A
Redge
Reply to  Dave Andrews
August 14, 2022 11:08 pm

It’s new cars not all cars on the road

According to the latest Shell advert, 25% of all new cars are EVs

sooner or later the politicians will have to wake up to this fact and change the 2030 date.

Yep, but they won’t as long as their paycheck depends on them toeing the populist line

another ian
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 3:34 am

Way back w2hen it was known as cart before horse

max
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 8:18 am

There is no intent for every car owner to have an EV. Only the finest people will be able to afford them, and the electricity to charge them. They don’t want the Jetsons for our future, they want Ready Player One.

Truthbknown
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 1:11 pm

Yes, the rest of us are just “not smart” enough to know what is good for us…

OV10 Bronco USMC
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 7:14 pm

Unicorns will supply the electricity.

Jack Frost
Reply to  Redge
August 16, 2022 3:19 pm

If it goes ahead, which I doubt, sales of new ICE cars and vans will be banned from 2030 in Britain. You’ll still be able to buy used ICEs and drive one you already own.
I bought a new diesel pickup last year and will chop that in for another new one in 2029, that’ll see me out.

Spetzer86
Reply to  4E Douglas
August 13, 2022 2:42 pm

They don’t want people moving around the country of their own volition. They’re not really thrilled with the ideas of diesel farm equipment and modern fertilizer, either. We’ll find out how well that last part works out maybe next year.

Leslie MacMillan
Reply to  Spetzer86
August 14, 2022 7:55 pm

In his dotage, the Duke of Wellington (victor over Napoleon at Waterloo) was asked what he thought of the new railways starting to appear in England in the 1830s. He was against them because “they would allow the lower classes to move about.”

On a happier note, the advent of the pneumatic-tired safety bicycle in the 1890s allowed young men unable to afford a horse an easy way to court young women in nearby villages and still be home in time for morning milking. It is credited with deepening the English gene pool substantially.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  4E Douglas
August 13, 2022 5:34 pm

And EPA will not be able to coerce low max mph via software on that rebuilt truck. Just watch out for all the debris on the highway from “self driving” car crashes and other brain dead government regulator lapses alongside the insurance funded and FDA approved opioid crisis.

George T
Reply to  4E Douglas
August 13, 2022 6:52 pm

I plan on doing the same with our Sienna. It has 300,000 miles and it’s still running strong. Not a chance I would ever buy an EV. Useless as far as I am concerned. I’ve read the stories of owners trying to travel across country pulling a trailer. A nightmare! My time and money is worth something.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  George T
August 14, 2022 12:12 pm

Yes, we’ll see if they try to kill off the Indiana RV industry first while watching from the side door of our Sienna.

roaddog
Reply to  4E Douglas
August 13, 2022 10:36 pm

My 20 year old Toyota Sequoia (Miriam) will easily outlive me, and I treat her very well.

186no
Reply to  roaddog
August 14, 2022 2:16 am

Scope UK motoring programme “Top Gear” – with presenters May, Hammond and Clarkson, not the current crew; they tried to destroy a Toyota Hilux Pick Up several times over. One attempt was to put it on a building that was demolished and then tried to start it once recovered from the wreckage…..won’t spoil your viewing:

roaddog
Reply to  186no
August 14, 2022 7:37 am

Thanks, That is one of the few TV shows I really enjoy. I had a ’97 T100 that was the most outright fun to drive vehicle I’ve ever owned.

Drake
Reply to  186no
August 14, 2022 10:31 am

The scary part of this video is the demolition of 2 reinforced concrete high rise towers for WHY?

Years ago as an electrician in Las Vegas, I worked on an almost total remodel of the hotel rooms of the Caesar’s Palace “Fantasy” tower. The only areas not removed/replaced were the stairs, fire walls and the “center core” elevator shafts. How bad is British government housing construction where the whole structure needed to be demolished?

I guess when the UK government has gotten to the point where it has not only proposed but has mandated an impossibility w/r to ICE/EV vehicles, the decay must have started long ago.

roaddog
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 18, 2022 5:30 am

One has to mount one’s machine gun somewhere.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  roaddog
August 14, 2022 2:14 pm

We just need a lot of extra parking space since we never trade them in and they tend to multiply. My whole family has used ones with high miles. That buying tactic was fun while it lasted. Now we’re in the long stretch with no debt and few repairs.

August 13, 2022 2:18 pm

MSRP
Toyota Camry LE 4cyl ICE = $25,945

Smaller and much less reliable
Tesla Model 3 = $46,990

starzmom
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 4:25 pm

We have owned multiple Toyotas–the 4 Runner went 340,000 miles and the RAV4 went 320,000. The rest are still running, most with over 100,000. (Family of 5, everybody has a vehicle or two.) Don’t know if we paid MSRP but we are getting/have gotten our money’s worth. And we drive a lot. Tesla would not cut it.

roaddog
Reply to  starzmom
August 13, 2022 10:37 pm

The replacement batteries for Teslas would have bankrupted you.

Dennis
Reply to  roaddog
August 13, 2022 10:53 pm

Should be considered a fuel cost.

Dennis
Reply to  starzmom
August 13, 2022 10:53 pm

A diesel mechanic commented to me recently that a Diesel engine and other components can never have too many oil and filter changes and keeping the oil clean is also cooler running.

I am aware of a Toyota Land Cruiser 1980s model that has exceeded one million kilometres with regular maintenance but original Diesel engine, gearbox and differentials. And a Mitsubishi 4WD wagon (Pajero here) that has almost reached one million kilometres with two owners, both related and both have changed the engine oil every 5,000 km and filter every 10,000 km.

Of course driving sensibly is important.

starzmom
Reply to  Dennis
August 14, 2022 4:38 am

Thank you. We keep up with oil changes and regular maintenance as well. The 4-Runner had a fatal axle problem–too expensive to fix, at 21 years old–and dad worried about the reliability of the RAV for our daughter, so it got traded in–no problems then. Most of us drive sensibly–can’t speak as much for the boys, though! The current crop are going strong.

Scissor
Reply to  Richard Greene
August 13, 2022 5:11 pm

Plus it’s a top safety pick, according to Ralph Nader.

Tom Halla
August 13, 2022 2:20 pm

$12,000 more for a vehicle incapable of trailer towing in any practical sense. And less capable generally.
And it lacks the virtue signaling value of a Tesla.

Scissor
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 13, 2022 5:12 pm

It would be good for drag racing. For common pickup tasks, not so good.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Scissor
August 15, 2022 10:04 am

How many races before the thermal destruction of the battery?

H.R.
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 13, 2022 5:20 pm

But, but, but… they are fast!

And you can run the battery down to a brick powering your lights and refrigerator during a 4-day power outage. Or even run your power equipment at the jobesite until there is not enough charge to get home.

With luck, the charging stations are in scenic areas of The U.S. (except the Detroit chargers) so you can leisurely enjoy the beauties of the USA.

What’s not to like? 😉

(Edited to add winky. There will be some with broken sarcometers.)

Last edited 1 month ago by H.R.
Mike McMillan
Reply to  H.R.
August 13, 2022 10:15 pm

I thought a winky was something else.

OT, the driver side window on my ’98 Camry doesn’t work anymore.

H.R.
Reply to  Mike McMillan
August 14, 2022 5:16 am

Mike – Well, there’s the classic 7th-grade usage of ‘winky’ and then there’s my usage of a graphic winky, and when referring to the image, using ‘winky’ saves writing out ‘winking face emoji’.

I use one to denote sarcasm, that I’m kidding and not serious, that I’m just teasing someone, that what I wrote has a different meaning and should not be taken literally. It’s not really hard to sort out how it’s being used. It’s usually clear from context.

(You needed a winky after your 1st sentence, Mike. 😉)

Grant
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 15, 2022 9:04 am

It will tow better than any of the gas models

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Grant
August 15, 2022 10:06 am

It may tow better, but it doesn’t tow as far. Haven’t you seen the video showing about 100 mile range with a 6000 pound trailer?

Ron Long
August 13, 2022 2:21 pm

These Ford 150’s are only for Virtue Signaling, anyway. What is Virtue Signaling? A direct exhibitionist showing of not only being dysfunctional, but also really proud of it.

Editor
Reply to  Ron Long
August 13, 2022 2:44 pm

“What is Virtue Signaling? A direct exhibitionist showing of not only being dysfunctional, but also really proud of it.”

Thanks, Ron. I enjoyed that.

Regards,
Bob

max
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
August 14, 2022 8:26 am

Like a college age male, proudly posing next to the car he’s rolled, on dry pavement.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Ron Long
August 13, 2022 4:57 pm

Lots of money, no brains

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
August 13, 2022 5:18 pm

I know lots of those types. The question is, where did their lots of money come from? In my experience, most started with a larger (inherited) fortune to make a smaller fortune.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 7:24 pm

It is easy to assume that there a correlation between intelligence and personal wealth. Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be. Otherwise, people like Jonas Salk and Albert Einstein would have been richer than Bill Gates, or at least Al Gore.

Simon
Reply to  Ron Long
August 13, 2022 7:10 pm

Most people who drives pickups are signalling something. Often trying to hide areas of deficiency…. particularly the men.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 7:29 pm

The only time I ever owned a pickup truck was when my wife and I owned a couple of horses. What I was signalling was that my former removable-hardtop ’63 Corvette (trade-in) was not practical for hauling bales of hay, or saddles and tack.

You remind me of an old saying: “When you point a finger at someone, there are three fingers pointing back at yourself.” I can believe it, especially in your case.

Simon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 13, 2022 8:21 pm

Fair enough. Happy it worked for you. But….You can’t tell me that many people who own a pickup truck use it to say something, rather than use it for what it was intended.

John Larson
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 10:22 pm

What “virtues” do you think they might be signaling?

Drake
Reply to  John Larson
August 14, 2022 10:45 am

Don’t expect an answer. He is an a typical J@ who borrows someone else pick up when he needs it. OR he is the typical liberal who is so abhorrent to manual labor that any form of moving something heavy is paid to those who he hates, you know, those with exponentially shrinking expendable income due to the ever increasing cost of electricity due to unreliable energy mandates. I.e. the WORKING poor.

My 1 ton diesel PU is for towing my 11 US ton 5th wheel. Have towed it almost 30,000 Miles in the last 3 years. I have almost always owned a PU, since I was 21. I have never hired “movers” when changing homes, have done it myself with help of friends when necessary.

BUT. If I never used my PU for hauling or towing, what business is it of Simons? None. But leftists are busy bodies that MUST FORCE others, through the coercive power of government, to do as THEY wish us to do.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 5:43 am

Spoken like a 16 year old! Do you ever work on your home like remodeling using lumber and large or in a garden where you need to haul soil, fertilizer, etc. Or do you just pay someone else who is “virtue signaling” to do it for you?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 9:05 am

Now days I have to depend on the good will of a neighbor when I want to move something big like a piece of furniture. Maybe that is what pickups were intended to do — be borrowed.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 14, 2022 2:38 pm

I bought a 10′ wagon to haul behind my SUV. I’ll never be able to afford an EV do haul the wagon!

roaddog
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 18, 2022 5:32 am

It seems we’re fast approaching a time when you’ll need the horses to tow the pickup.

John Hultquist
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 8:22 pm

What is this photo signaling?
76e026e88e3bb9099261bbc970ce991e.jpg (961×774) (pinimg.com)

Today, I hooked a chain to mine, put it in 4-wheel drive, and pulled a tree out of an irrigation ditch. I hid the fact that I am not strong enough to pull out a tree with roots still anchored in the bank. I can, however, still lift the chain.

Simon
Reply to  John Hultquist
August 13, 2022 8:47 pm

What is this photo signaling?
76e026e88e3bb9099261bbc970ce991e.jpg (961×774) (pinimg.com)

People were not keen in their kids riding in comfort in the 50’s?

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 4:23 am

Do you even have half a clue as to what that photo is of?

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Tim Gorman
August 14, 2022 5:45 am

Not a chance!

max
Reply to  Jim Gorman
August 14, 2022 8:28 am

Vegans gotta talk, not listen.

ATheoK
Reply to  Tim Gorman
August 14, 2022 6:21 pm

‘It’, is apparently thinking of a playpen on the back of the truck.

Simon
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 14, 2022 2:04 pm

So not their children then?

roaddog
Reply to  Simon
August 18, 2022 5:34 am

When I was in high school we hauled bottle calves home from Monday’s auction in the back seat of my 57 Chevy. I have sometimes seen sedans in (South Carolina) to transport goats. The ultimate Kudzu managers.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  John Hultquist
August 14, 2022 7:44 am

I had a ’64 Chevy Apache 10 years ago; great vehicle, wished it was as nice as this one!

lee riffee
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 8:31 pm

You mean like old bald men driving around in convertible sports cars? Not a guy and I drive a Dodge Ram 1500. I’d much rather be in that in the event of an accident than something much smaller.

Simon
Reply to  lee riffee
August 13, 2022 8:47 pm

You mean like old bald men driving around in convertible sports cars? “
Yep…

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 7:41 am

More stupidity from the TDS-boi King of Stupidity.

Simon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
August 14, 2022 2:04 pm

Boring

John Loop
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 1:31 pm

Sounds like a person who doesn’t even own a screwdriver. Or a pair of pliers. Or a hammer. Or doesn’t appreciate the men in their lives who do.

Simon
Reply to  John Loop
August 14, 2022 2:05 pm

Sounds like a person who doesn’t even own a screwdriver. Or a pair of pliers. Or a hammer. Or doesn’t appreciate the “people” in their lives who do.”
Well you couldn’t be more wrong.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Simon
August 15, 2022 5:59 am

Your words betray you. Denial is futile.

Simon
Reply to  Tim Gorman
August 15, 2022 1:18 pm

Sounds like I am on lost in space. Actually I own more tools than my wife would like and (with my son in law) I built my own beach house. Just saying.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Simon
August 15, 2022 3:48 pm

And you did all that without a pickup? How did you get your framing studs home? Tied to the top of the car? Or did you have them delivered? What were they delivered by?

How did you get your flooring home? Tied to the top of your car? How many trips did you have to make? Delivered? By what?

How did you get your windows home? Tied to the top of your car? Delivered? Delivered by what?

How did you get your drywall home? Tied to the top of your car? How many trips did *that* take? Or was it delivered and by what?

You make fun of those with pickups who could do that all themselves without incurring large delivery fees. Tell us again who the virtue signaling fools are.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tim Gorman
JonasM
Reply to  Tim Gorman
August 16, 2022 1:00 pm

You would be surprised what a Honda Fit can carry.
(Speaking from the experience of a full outside deck rebuild and full kitchen remodel).
But your point is still valid. 🙂

Last edited 1 month ago by JonasM
ATheoK
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 6:17 pm

Often trying to hide areas of deficiency…. particularly the men.”

And that specious inference bothers you?

Typical sick alarmist projecting their own inabilities and bad actions upon others.

Simon
Reply to  ATheoK
August 14, 2022 8:08 pm

Did I hurt your feelings? Is there something you need to get off your chest. Actually if its on your chest you don’t have a need for a F150 to impress anyone.

Last edited 1 month ago by Simon
R Terrell
Reply to  Simon
August 18, 2022 2:30 pm

I have owned 5 pickups in my time, and they were ALL used to haul heavy/bulky stuff. When they weren’t being used for that, they all made excellent every day vehicles. Two were used when I was doing field service for a large computer manufacturer in So. California. When the last one finally died of old age and 300,000+ miles, it was replaced with another (used) small pickup, which was used for every day chores and the occasional hauling of HEAVY stuff. In between those trucks I also owned a plethora of ordinary cars. I never once considered any of the trucks to be symbols of my masculinity. They were a necessary tool that I needed in my every day life! Only idiots think otherwise. IMHO!

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Ron Long
August 13, 2022 7:20 pm

Not unlike those who are proud of having voted for Biden. They are in denial over all the problems he has created.

Simon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 13, 2022 8:18 pm

Lowest unemployment in 50 years. But I didn’t vote for him.

John MacDonald
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 9:16 pm

Only if you ignore all the workers who left the workforce and are no longer counted in the denominator. Fun with stats, once again.

Ron Long
Reply to  John MacDonald
August 14, 2022 4:07 am

Right, John. Look at the “Labor Participation Rate” to see reality. Really low.

Independent
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 9:20 pm

It’s that low because the labor force participation rate is very low and didn’t recover fully from the government-caused economic crash in 2020:
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm

But don’t worry, the policies instituted by the morons you like will result in an increase in the unemployment rate soon enough. Already the weekly numbers of jobless claims have begun to rise, which is no surprise in a recession (caused, again, by the cretins you like).

Simon
Reply to  Independent
August 13, 2022 9:51 pm

Clearly you can’t read…

roaddog
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 10:41 pm

In real world numbers, comparing pre-covid employment to today, the Biden administration has created 140,000 jobs. Those will be gone in a month or two. That’s how recessions work.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 4:26 am

And clearly you know nothing about the job market!

Editor
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 7:56 am

Clearly you can’t think.

Your silly attacks on people using trucks are one example, another is your inability to realize that you are conned by the governments misleading unemployment rate another example is your inability to know what truck photo with a transport rack was used for.

I have used the same truck since 1995 a Ford F-250 4wd which I used for hauling, sleeping in and for long trips that have a lot of steep hills in them including the Cascade Range and the Pendleton Hills.

Now I am considering the Ford F-150 Hybrid set up as my next truck.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sunsettommy
Yirgach
Reply to  Independent
August 14, 2022 6:44 am

Also see John Williams’ Shadow Stats, which shows the official U-6 at 22% and the unadulterated U-6 at 35%!

The U-6 unemployment rate is the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ (BLS) broadest unemployment measure, including short-term discouraged and other marginally-attached workers as well as those forced to work part-time because they cannot find full-time employment.

CapitalistRoader
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2022 9:27 pm

Lowest unemployment rate since January, 2020. Highest inflation rate in 40 years.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 4:25 am

Why do you think so many jobs go unfilled? But that’s ok, Biden is going to fix that with his recession – there won’t be any jobs to fill pretty soon!

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Tim Gorman
August 14, 2022 9:12 am

I complained to an employee at my local Kroger grocery store about only two cash register lines being open. I asked if they were having trouble finding employees or purposely forcing people into the self-checkout lines. Her response was that they were hiring new people every day, but that they only lasted a week before quitting because the work was so hard.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 7:45 am

TDS-boi here has an Adam Schiff poster on the ceiling above his bed…

Simon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
August 14, 2022 2:05 pm

Boring

Jtom
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2022 10:46 am

Almost a million fewer people working in the US today than pre-pandemic. That is the number that counts and a big reason why we are in a recession.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Jtom
August 15, 2022 5:54 am

Much of the spending increase we’ve seen has been financed using credit cards that will come due sooner or later. That’s no way to make up the loss of so many productive (?) individuals from the work force.

Robert Berrie
August 13, 2022 2:50 pm

The 2023 F-150 XLT is listed as $59,474 on today’s shop.Ford.com page. This does not include the “potential” $7,500 electric vehicle discount (which no one buying today will see unless the EV incentives are extended). This is for the 240 mile version. Extended range (320 miles) starts at an eye-watering $80,974. These trucks cannot haul much of anything without losing at least 1/2 their range — and I would hate to see what the range for one would be in the dead of winter in Montana hauling a trailer of cattle from one pasture to another.

Bryan A
Reply to  Robert Berrie
August 13, 2022 4:51 pm

You could easily make it from one pasture to another in rural Montana, just install a Mega-battery pack and a quick charging station midway between gates and cover half the pasture with Solar panels to recharge the Mega Battery

Yirgach
Reply to  Bryan A
August 14, 2022 6:48 am

Just pack a 5kW genset with a 25 gallon gas tank, you’re all set!

Bryan A
Reply to  Yirgach
August 14, 2022 9:33 am

Just a 25 gallon tank and a single 12V battery is Much Better

John Hultquist
Reply to  Robert Berrie
August 13, 2022 8:25 pm

A couple of riders, a couple of dogs, and a good lead animal will make that ‘ol cattle drive.

Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 2:54 pm

Did some quick research before posting.
The new F150 Lightning has a light small camper (1500#)tow range of 89 miles before needing to recharge. Actual test. Useless.

By comparison, the new F 150 hybrid MY 2023 with AWD costs $45,500. It can tow up to 12700# depending on hitch. It’s one tank range without a tow is 700 miles. It’s combined average mpg is about 24 using regular. The equivalent 3.5V6 non- hybrid AWD is 15. And as actually tested, with a 5500# tow it’s range was 450 miles per tank. Oh, and the hybrid electric machine also generates up to 7.2kw of 120v AC available via four sockets in the pickup bed when the truck is parked with the engine on. Just was a contractor needs—no extra generator needed at off grid job sites.

Jeff L
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 3:09 pm

Politicians – are there any who have had to do physical / manual labor in their entire lives?
They are clueless that there are actually folks who need capable vehicles to get work done. Oh yes, we still remember what Hillary called us …. I would go off on that but my post would certainly be censored.

Scissor
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 13, 2022 5:17 pm

Yes, take stupidity for example. Politicians have a virtual monopoly on it.

jwr
Reply to  Scissor
August 13, 2022 7:24 pm

As long as people keep voting them into office I would think the virtual monopoly on stupidity is questionable.

roaddog
Reply to  jwr
August 13, 2022 10:43 pm

I think stupidity has been nationalized.

starzmom
Reply to  Jeff L
August 13, 2022 4:30 pm

I once heard TV commentators based in New York ask each other if anybody knew anyone who actually owned a pickup truck. At the time we and all our neighbors did. I concluded they were very out of touch.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  starzmom
August 13, 2022 5:23 pm

Boy, the truth of flyover country.

Bryan A
Reply to  Jeff L
August 13, 2022 9:41 pm

AOC used to be required to lift glasses and mix drinks…does that count?
(snark…snark…snark)
Doesn’t she have a cousin named Manuel Laber?

Last edited 1 month ago by Bryan A
Dr. Bob
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 3:10 pm

I purchased a Ram 1500 Hemi with a 33 gal tank. I can drive 700 miles on one tank. This means I can get to SoCal from Denver with a fill-up in Utah and have fuel to spare. But the reason I got the large tank was that I can fill up in Nevada, drive to SoCal, then drive back out and never have to purchase gas in California. Something I want to avoid any time I can. Even if I have to bring a few cans of gas along with me to cover in-town driving before I leave that state.

lee riffee
Reply to  Dr. Bob
August 13, 2022 8:35 pm

If the powers that be in CA have their way, eventually there may not be any gas available in CA!

Bryan A
Reply to  Dr. Bob
August 13, 2022 8:36 pm

I drove from Santa Rosa to Seattle up I5 through Oregon. I got about 22 MPG on California Gas. I refilled in Portland and drove the next 300+ miles on less than 10 gallons. I got 34 MPG on the Oregon Gas.

roaddog
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2022 10:46 pm

Odd you should mention that. I just did a 3,000 mile round trip to North Carolina, and for whatever reason, I got the best mileage with the cheapest gas. (89 octane purchased in Missouri for $3.39 a gallon).

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 3:11 pm

The non-plugin hybrid is the way to go. No plugin hassle. No electrical grid improvements required.

I would like to have an F150 hybrid. It looks like it would be very useful.

The cost of raw materials is going up so if you want one, now would be the time to order it.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
Rud Istvan
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2022 3:30 pm

If it had been available in 1993 when I bought my farm F250, I would have bought the F150 hybrid in a minute. Could early tow the same two horse trailer as the F250, easy handle the feed and firewood loads, much better gas milage than my 5 liter V8 (so fuel thirsty it had two 25 gallon fuel tanks). Plus, I could have taken my AC power tools into the field.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 13, 2022 7:16 pm

True. But remember that everything on my working farm is also tax appreciation deductible. Because it is a real working farm, not an IRS hobby farm.
Like I said, hd it been available in 1993, would have been a no brainer. Alas, we are now in 2022 for MY2023.

roaddog
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 13, 2022 10:48 pm

Important to remember that the Lightning makes the old adage about Fords even more appropriate today – Found On Road Dead.

Matthew Bergin
Reply to  roaddog
August 14, 2022 2:08 pm

Wong adage – First On Race Day 🙋‍♂️👍😎

roaddog
Reply to  Matthew Bergin
August 18, 2022 5:38 am

I enjoy all of them.

Bruce
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2022 4:42 pm

I don’t know why no P/U MFG offers a gas or diesel With a built in generator connected to the engine. I think it would be a bit hit with tradesmen

Scissor
Reply to  Charles Rotter
August 13, 2022 5:22 pm

I think he was probably looking for something with 7500 watts of power or so.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Charles Rotter
August 13, 2022 5:44 pm

Charles, the problem with that stuff is that if you use those then at the end of the day you cannot drive the truck off the job site. It’s dead. And you have to tow, since no recharge is available. Lots of merchandise is available that makes no common sense.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 13, 2022 6:29 pm

Kip, yup. Except 7.2 kw is not small. So this Ford hybrid F150 was designed from the gitgo to be an alternative.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 13, 2022 7:37 pm

A dedicated job-site generator seems like a safer bet to get home in time for dinner, rather than hoping that you didn’t drain too much juice out of the truck battery — and are within reception distance of a cell tower.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 6:51 pm

Uh, Rud, if using continuously for work, one leaves the truck idling.

Kit P
Reply to  Bruce
August 13, 2022 6:09 pm

Because constrcution generators are cheap. This a difference between hard working men who wiht an F350 and those who have adaquacy issues.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Kit P
August 13, 2022 7:40 pm

I think that you will find that it is those who drive Dodge RAM trucks that have the adequacy issues. 🙂

roaddog
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 13, 2022 10:51 pm

Hey, now…

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  roaddog
August 14, 2022 9:14 am

Let me guess. You resemble that remark. 🙂

roaddog
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 14, 2022 6:51 pm

I have a 2016 Ram (my work truck) with 240,000 miles on it. It is the single most reliable vehicle I’ve ever operated. Didn’t need the first set of brakes until 190,000 miles. Still runs like new and gets 17-21 mpg, depending mostly on how fast I drive. We’ve done nothing to it but change the oil, new shocks at 200,000 miles and the above-mentioned brakes.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 15, 2022 10:25 am

I think people who can’t afford the vehicle they want are the ones with adequacy issues.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Bruce
August 14, 2022 3:36 am

I agree, Bruce. It would be convenient to be able to plug your tools or your house into a gasoline/diesel pickup truck at times.

Mr.
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 3:23 pm

Thanks Rud.
What size is the AWD plug-in hybrid’s ICE?

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Mr.
August 13, 2022 4:13 pm

3.5 liter V6. IIRC, the total horsepower (ICE plus electric machine) was about 430–how it can tow 12700# with a bed horseshoe hitch, and 8000# pounds with a class 2 frame load distributed hitch (both of course requiring trailer brakes like for my two horse trailer).

Editor
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 4:03 pm

I can’t fathom why few are advocating the far better idea of a HYBRID set up over the overrated all electric which has too many weaknesses to overcome and requires a lot of infrastructure upgrading of the grid to meet the demand of the future and doesn’t do a dam thing about CO2 effect on the planets heat budget.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Sunsettommy
August 13, 2022 5:34 pm

I have been a large vehicle hybrid advocate since I ran the numbers before buying our MY 2007 Ford Escape AWD class 1 tow hybrid. We got the hybrid price premium back on day one thanks to then tax credit. And have since saved over $10k in fuel. Hybrid uses less regular, then equivalent V6 conventional used premium. Less gas, at less cost. Thanks to hybrid battery float strategy, 14 years on our battery is still very good.

Editor
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 7:15 pm

My brother is on his second Toyota Prius this time it is the extended hatchback style, and he is happy with it.

I have been his passenger a few times to see that it is great for city traffic as it performs more efficiently as a stop and go vehicle thus reducing ozone and smog problems that large cities like Seattle where he drove his car a lot.

DrEd
Reply to  Sunsettommy
August 13, 2022 5:56 pm

It should be clear. We MUST eliminate ALL fossil fuels!!! Get with the program!!
NO HYBRIDS even if it makes so much more sense than all electric.
There’s no fixing stupid, is there?

Bob Johnston
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 5:07 pm

I’ve always thought all-electric vehicles were stupid but a hybrid pickup makes some sense to me.

Scissor
Reply to  Bob Johnston
August 13, 2022 5:24 pm

A hybrid wife would be nice.

Scissor
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 13, 2022 5:55 pm

Sorry, I meant convertible.

roaddog
Reply to  Scissor
August 13, 2022 10:53 pm

As long as the neighbors don’t complain…

roaddog
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 14, 2022 6:52 pm

Now you got it. Topless.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Scissor
August 13, 2022 7:42 pm

AC/DC?

commieBob
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 5:23 pm

The standard railway locomotive is a diesel powered generator with electric motors. Experiments with any kind of mechanical drive haven’t been successful. Of course, steam was mechanical drive but that was replaced by diesel-electric back when I was a pup.

In a hybrid car, the electric motor and generator are the same device. Then there’s a complicated transmission that can couple the ICE and the electric device to the wheels at the same time. Or, the ICE can power the wheels and generate electricity at the same time.

Given that electric motors have become rather light, I’m intrigued by the idea that you could have the ICE connected to a generator and separate electric motor(s) connected to the wheels. It seems kind of obvious so I’m guessing there are problems with that approach.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  commieBob
August 14, 2022 7:53 am

Diesel-electric locomotives also have dynamic braking which switches the traction motors over to function as generators connected to huge resistors that convert kinetic energy to heat.

Mike Swenson
Reply to  commieBob
August 15, 2022 7:42 pm

Commie Bob It was called Chevrolet Volt

Kit P
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 6:01 pm

So you think a $45000 constrcution genreator is a good idea?

Got to love slick marketing.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Kit P
August 13, 2022 6:33 pm

$45,500 F150 with major tow/load capacity in AWD. The construction generator comes along for free.

John Hultquist
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 8:30 pm

My 2019 has a tank of 23 gallons; other levels are larger.

August 13, 2022 3:24 pm

“priced far too high for most Americans to afford

may have a delivery waiting period of three years”

Sounds like someone can afford them

“I am, however, a native U.S. Citizen and I do vote, every election”

You won’t find Ford on the ballot. Ford is just a private firm trying to best assess what it can sell.

I didn’t read that there will be no ICE version.

Andrew Wilkins
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 4:22 pm

” Sounds like someone can afford them”
Yes, very rich virtue signallers. In other words, putting accessible transport out of the financial reach of your average earning American. And you support this? You should be deeply ashamed of yourself Nick.

Reply to  Andrew Wilkins
August 13, 2022 5:45 pm

As I read it, Ford is simply bringing out an extra choice. The ICE and hybrid versions will also be available.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 13, 2022 6:12 pm

There is no curtailment apparent here. Just an extra product on offer, at a price you think is too high. That can happen.

Bryan A
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 14, 2022 9:14 pm

A new product that Costs $20,000 more than the existing product it’s replacing…that CAN’T be driven any meaningful distance when being used the way the model is intended (AKA Towing and Hauling heavy weights)…that’s powered by Coal or Natural Gas (85% of current grid generation mix) instead of Oil based fuel…that is set to totally replace the far better FF powered model in 8 years in 12 states.
It’ll probably do well in Hawaii since travel distances down the Interstate freeways is far shorter … being a small island and all

Reply to  Bryan A
August 14, 2022 11:17 pm

I’m sure people are factoring the relative costs of charging vs paying out endlessly for gasoline.

Bryan A
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 15, 2022 5:46 am

2022 Dodge Durango
Seats 7 (3 rows)
19-26…20 MPG
22 Gal Tank
Refuel in 6 minutes
440 mile range
Towing 5000 lbs range 300 miles
$37,000

2022 Tesla X (equivalent SUV)
Seats 7
100KW battery
Refuel in 14 hours at 220V
330 mile range
Towing 5000 lbs range 110 miles
$120,000

Difference $83,000
Faster ICE refueling
Better towing range
Better driving range

At $2.50 per gallon that’s almost 36,000 gallons of fuel
20 MPG 720,000 miles of driving just on the price difference

At $4.00 per gallon that’s almost 21,000 gallons of fuel
20 MPG 420,000 miles of driving just on the price difference

Andrew Wilkins
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 14, 2022 2:14 am

Nice try Nick, but no cigar.
Ford and many other motor manufacturers have committed to phase out ICE vehicles by 2040
Where’s the choice then?
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/ford-gm-mercedes-volvo-byd-jlr-commit-to-end-ice-production-by-2040/

Matthew Bergin
Reply to  Andrew Wilkins
August 14, 2022 2:20 pm

Used vehicles are the way to go. The most I have ever paid for a vehicle was $8000 for a two year old Crown Vic P71. Drove that car for over 12 years. I would never waste money on a new car or truck. Plus not buying the Tesla saves me a lot of money that will supply me almost a lifetime of fuel purchases.

roaddog
Reply to  Matthew Bergin
August 18, 2022 5:41 am

Also the greenest option.

Bryan A
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 14, 2022 8:59 pm

Only for 8 more years (on the Left Coast and Maine down to NY) in 12 states. 2030 marks the end of FF powered auto sales in some states…others to follow by 2035 (12.5 years).

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 13, 2022 5:36 pm

Kip, it’s ok. He doesn’t either. Facts are very hard for him.

R_G
Reply to  Rud Istvan
August 13, 2022 6:11 pm

I wish weather predictions were so predictive as Nick posts.

starzmom
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 4:33 pm

There has been a Ford F-150 for many years. It is their flagship pickup truck.

Reply to  starzmom
August 13, 2022 6:13 pm

I don’t see here that it is ending. Just a new option.

Editor
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 8:30 pm

It would be the worse option to choose which is why Hybrid is far better option.

Reply to  Sunsettommy
August 14, 2022 12:24 pm

OK, you can choose that. But the Lightning has a long waiting list. Someone likes them.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 14, 2022 2:21 pm

Kip,
I still don’t see the point of your article. There are a people who want them (badly) and Ford wants to make money selling them. Everyone else can keep buying the earlier kinds of F-150 if they want. Where is the beef?

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 14, 2022 3:58 pm

Kip,Your headline reads
“America’s Favorite Vehicle: Priced Out of the Market”

Yet we now see that the price and availability of F-150 ICE hasn’t changed at all. They have introduced a new product (Lightning). The NYT thinks that if they are going to sell them in Georgia, the price will need to come down. Maybe. So?

roaddog
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 10:54 pm

I’m convinced all the auto manufacturers promoting all-electric vehicles are pushing a rope up hill; and that never works.

Redge
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 13, 2022 11:41 pm

Nick

ICEs will be banned from sale in the UK from 2030.

Welcome to the UK, leading the world in madness since 1988!

roaddog
Reply to  Redge
August 14, 2022 1:29 am

There goes that obesity problem.

Redge
Reply to  roaddog
August 14, 2022 2:36 am

It’ll be dog eat dog, so you’d better be careful my friend

joe x
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 14, 2022 7:01 am

wrong nick, ford is on the ballot. ford and other manufacturers are going down this green road to position them selves with the government run means of production they will have to live with to survive. if the leftists win of course. its a form of jockeying for position in the manufacturing world under the illusion their products actually have market place value. every time a consumer purchases an ev vehicle, our nation edges ever closer to having a dozen or so mega sized and well diversified corporations making everything, co -managed by government.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 14, 2022 7:54 am

Go ahead, Nick, YOU buy one.

Hoyt Clagwell
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 14, 2022 9:51 am

“Sounds like someone can afford them”

Yes Nick, we all can. But only in the sense that our tax dollars are buying them becaue the majority of electric vehicles are purchased by government agencies to push the left’s agenda, making it seem like EVs are popular, when they are not. Additionally, our tax dollars are subsidizing the purchase of EVs to artificially boost sales among private entities. If EVs are so popular, why the subsidies? Just answer that.

Last edited 1 month ago by Hoyt Clagwell
dk_
August 13, 2022 3:55 pm

I am, however, a native U.S. Citizen and I do vote, every election (politicians take note!).

Sure. And since they know where you live, it will be no problem to compensate with 100 or so non-citizens who not only vote, but do so more than once per head. Not that they need to go through the effort, since for every one like you there are at least a dozen who do not vote, and perhaps twice as many who do so for whatever party that they always do.

But the pricing actually a good thing — not receiving the expected subsidies, Ford is wisely not going to go through with this obvious economic idiocy. With Rivian out of the picture (and Ford out of Rivian as well), expect a sharp withdrawal of other nimby tax cheat electric vehicles from the market. His Muskness is already laying off workers, and his battery supply is not all that well assured (although we could bet on whether he’ll grab a bit of taxpayer’s free new-printed cash based on the Chips and Build Bankrupt Better laws). Expect more pump-and-dump on Tesla stock.

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  dk_
August 13, 2022 5:45 pm

G’day DK

“…no problem to compensate with 100 or so non-citizens who not only vote, but do so more than once per head.”

It’s even easier than that. Seems the vote counting machines need a plug-in thumb drive.

Kansas had their primaries about a week ago, and post election hand counts in some precincts showed discrepancies. Reported several days ago at : granitegrok.com

Found it: https://granitegrok.com/blog/2022/08/weve-got-another-case-of-thumb-drives-flipping-votes-in-an-election

Last edited 1 month ago by Tombstone Gabby
dk_
Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
August 14, 2022 7:27 pm

Perhaps we can borrow some of the Ozzy thumb-drive sniffing police dogs so that we can ensure only the drives we want are allowed into the voting booth?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9593669/Specialist-police-dogs-used-sniff-USBs-SIM-cards-funding-receive-major-boost.html

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  dk_
August 14, 2022 10:25 pm

G’Day again dk,

That’s one heck of a training for dogs. Looking at the comments on that page – “What happens if the device doesn’t have objectional material in it?” My question would be, “Then why was it hidden.” I gather that the counting machine manufacturer is supposed to provide a thumb drive, and no one else is supposed to have one in the counting room. Need a heck of a lot of trained dogs though.

Australian Federal Police – are not to be messed with. May, 1970. My wife and I visited Canberra. A mate from primary school was in charge of the tour boats on the lake. Found his office. “Here’s the address, go on in and make yourselves at home. The key’s in the lock.” “What??” Visited an ex-neighbor a couple of nights later, walked up to the door. The key was in the lock. Seems that the Federal Police are very efficient.

dk_
Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
August 18, 2022 6:51 pm

Not realy an issue. The dogs learn to alert based on handler cues, just like animal trainer entertainers who “teach” them to “count.” Dogs are merely an excuse to rifle anyone’s person and luggage at will, then to confiscate digital storage for later review (and planting of evidence). Handlers are pre-selecting the people who should be searched. Saves police the trouble of stopping them for broken auto signal lights.

I visited Australia 20 years ago for work. Enjoyed almost all of it. But on a few occasions I was reminded that,as some critic remarked, many of the officials I met seemed likely to have descended from corrections officers than having been transported/deported from GB and Ireland.

Corrections officers were arguably among the first to use specially trained dogs for intimidation, and most likely to use the argument “if you weren’t doing anything wrong, why were you hiding?”

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  dk_
August 18, 2022 7:52 pm

And again, G’day dk,

“…from corrections officers than having been transported/deported from GB and Ireland.”

You could very well be right.

David Baird
August 13, 2022 4:25 pm

The wife and I vacation in W. Nebraska, the Black Hills, SD and E. Wyoming. Our preferred route from central Iowa to the 3 destinations would be impossible in a F-150 Lightning. Typical ICE travel time is 10 to 12 hours. 1 fuel stop needed on the Bridges to Buttes highway across northern Nebraska. In a F-150 Lightning we would never make the 323 mile gap in charging locations between Norfolk to Chadron, NE. If you’ve ever been on the B to B highway you can probably understand why I don’t have, or want a EV.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/ford-f-150-lighting-towing-test-compares-ev-pickup-to-its-ice-counterpart/

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  David Baird
August 13, 2022 5:04 pm

But President Biden is going to have the Government build charging stations every 50 miles on the Interstates. Not surer how many at each location – there may be a waiting line, just as there is at the Tesla charging station here in town, with about 20 charging points.

dk_
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
August 13, 2022 6:36 pm

And 30-40% of the energy delivered will come from coal fired power plants, or it just won’t be there at all.

David Baird
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
August 13, 2022 6:55 pm

The Bridges to Buttes highway a long ways away from I-80 to the south and I -90 to the north. Just pure rural America, then the Sand Hills and then the buttes. Cell service is not the best so I doubt adding charging stations are a long ways off.

David Baird
Reply to  David Baird
August 13, 2022 7:01 pm

Cell service is not the bes, so I think adding charging stations are a long ways off.

roaddog
Reply to  David Baird
August 13, 2022 11:07 pm

And you can usually get the best steak you ever had in your life in a cafe in any town along the way.

roaddog
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
August 13, 2022 10:59 pm

The Feds gave Wyoming $25 million for charging stations. I complained to the governor that this made no sense, as there are only ~450 electric cars in the state, and was informed that the funding was only available for charging stations – not for things we actually need, like workforce training.

roaddog
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 14, 2022 6:55 pm

More than we need for the 450 electric cars. Unless you never leave the city limits, they are utterly useless here. When I’m working hard, I’m driving 12-1400 miles a week.

Bryan A
Reply to  David Baird
August 15, 2022 6:50 pm

You could probably make it…IF…you put a 20kW generator and 5-5 gallon candidate of gas in the bed then recharge on the fly

Last edited 1 month ago by Bryan A
Bryan A
Reply to  Bryan A
August 15, 2022 10:15 pm

Cans of gas, not sure why autocorrect changed Cans to Candidate

Bryan A
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 16, 2022 10:26 pm

And just when I started to like MicroSoft…NOT

Waza
August 13, 2022 4:42 pm

You know the worst thing about owning a pick up truck is when a friend asks to borrow it to move furniture but then expects you to help carry it up the stairs.🥵

Dennis
Reply to  Waza
August 13, 2022 10:58 pm

Bumper sticker I sighted a few years ago on a utility (pick up truck):

Yes I own this vehicle
No I will not help you move

joe x
Reply to  Waza
August 14, 2022 7:16 am

this is an excellent point. i have owned a pu truck most of my life. we the thinking, that own ice pu trucks, suddenly become the leftist climate jackals best friend for a day when they need help moving some piece of crap furniture they bought from ikea. and after that they dispense with you like a leper, and not even a thank you. i have experienced this first hand.

Simonsays
August 13, 2022 5:47 pm

I wonder has anyone calculated the size and number of EV charging stations that will be needed. A typical 8 pump petrol station can fill 8 cars every 5 minutes =96 cars per hour. Say it takes 30min to charge a EV, then the station can now only charge 16 cars per hour. For an equivalent gas station a EV station would have to have space for 48 cars. Just another EV absurdity I guess.

Waza
Reply to  Simonsays
August 13, 2022 6:08 pm

Very good comment. If you extend it to include trucks, it’s even more crazy.
If the world is to go electric trucks, the whole freight industry business model will need to be changed

LdB
Reply to  Simonsays
August 13, 2022 7:12 pm

Just think of the opportunities for coffee shops … perhaps this is those green jobs the greentards think will materialize 🙂

roaddog
Reply to  Simonsays
August 13, 2022 11:01 pm

I’ve seen the calculation but can’t recall the details. Suffice to say that WAAAY MORE charging stations are needed than the current number of gasoline filling stations.

Dennis
Reply to  Simonsays
August 13, 2022 11:01 pm

A comment I read pointed out that an EV fleet would require recharging stations the area of a typical drive in movie theatre with power points where the speaker poles would be located for movie viewers, and as many as liquid fuel service stations.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Dennis
August 14, 2022 5:25 am

Maybe drive-in movie theaters will make a come back! Watch a movie while you charge your EV?

roaddog
Reply to  Tim Gorman
August 15, 2022 12:52 pm

And its sequel.

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Simonsays
August 14, 2022 9:51 am

It’s even worse. My 5 mins is enough to add 600 miles of range. 30 mins on the charger is only going to add 11kWh or perhaps 40 miles being generous, unless you opt for fast charge which will shorten battery life, and assuming your vehicle can accept it.

Matthew Bergin
Reply to  Simonsays
August 14, 2022 3:23 pm

At 480 Kw per charger. Adds up to a good sized electrical substation required per installation.

Waza
August 13, 2022 6:25 pm

There are of course different markets around the world for light trucks.
Europe prefer vans such as Ford Transit
Australia prefer cab over such as Isuzu N series or smaller utes such as Ford Ranger.
Interestingly Ford make an ev Transit. It’s ideal perfect range is about 200 miles downhill with a tail wind. It’s real world range is about 80 miles.

John thompson
August 13, 2022 6:30 pm

Saw a Utube video on a Dodge 1500 vs a F150 lightning. Towing a 4000 lb trailer the EV truck had a range of;only 89 miles. Good luck getting back from the launch ramp with your boat. Anyone tried to get into a charging station with a trailer?

Dennis
Reply to  John thompson
August 13, 2022 11:03 pm

A road test video I watched recommended trailers be disconnected while the tow EV is recharged.

Another problem to solve, park the trailer where?

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Dennis
August 14, 2022 9:55 am

Find your nearest trailer park? 😉

Bryan A
Reply to  Dennis
August 14, 2022 9:27 pm

Install a Charging Port on the trailer, park it in the adjacent charging station slot and plug it in next to your plugged in EV. An hour later, when done recharging, pull the EV out, book up the trailer and travel another 80 miles then wait another hour to recharge before traveling the next 80 miles of the trip…Lather Rinse Repeat…

Edward Katz
August 13, 2022 6:36 pm

I get the impression that the big manufacturers will keep the price of electrics high for several reasons. First they think government incentives will encourage consumers to go for electrics because they’re getting bonus for them, but studies have shown in Denmark, Georgia, Hong Kong and Ontario that when these subsidies are removed, sales plummet immediately. If that happens, and sales don’t rebound, the producers will have an excuse to cut back on production or even drop many models so they can concentrate on the real money-makers, gas and diesel.

Jit
Reply to  Edward Katz
August 14, 2022 4:56 am

Edward, I suspect it is the other way around. I’ve noticed that in the UK small petrol cars have gone up significantly in price in the past couple of years, and my cynical mind says this is done to cross-subsidize the larger ICEs and EVs. It’s something I keep meaning to dig up data on. (There are rules on fleet average emissions, which you would think would favour the smaller ICEs over the larger. But the larger ICEs are where the profit margin has always been. Companies want to sell the profitable cars, but they are also compelled to sell EVs, or to purchase credits from the likes of Tesla.)

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Jit
August 14, 2022 9:56 am

I think it’s just that supply has been cut back sharply, so prices go up.

Clyde Spencer
August 13, 2022 7:16 pm

Along with the purchase price, the cost of repair, and especially comprehensive/collision insurance, will be higher on the more expensive battery version. One may even find that the cost of one’s home-owner’s fire insurance will increase if kept in a garage.

roaddog
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 13, 2022 11:03 pm

Insurance companies being the only ones whose math skills are not in serious decline!

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 14, 2022 4:06 am

I wouldn’t keep an electric car in a garage attached to my house. It’s outside under a carport or nothing.

I did see an interesting item from Seimens company the other day. They have what looks like a better way to hook up a charging station in your garage. Instead of upgrading your whole electrical service to accomodate the charger, Seimens bypasses your electrical service and places an electrical hookup for the charger between the pole and your house electrical system.

I hear it costs thousands of dollars to upgrade your electrical system so Seimens may have a cheaper solution to this.

But, I still wouldn’t park an electric car with lithium batteries in my garage.

Does the U.S. government have a parking policy for electric vehicles in underground parking garages? They should probably be banned from underground parking. Will the U.S. government touch this subject prior to the first underground parking garage fire caused by electric vehicles?

A damaged electric car battery can catch on fire. A terrorist could manage to damage an electric car or two in an underground garage and all hell would break loose, especially if the whole garage were filled with electric vehicles. Something to think about.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
starzmom
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 14, 2022 4:51 am

That system also helps if they want to alter your charging–say, to use your batteries to stabilize the grid, or halt charging when supply is short. Be careful what you wish for.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 14, 2022 9:18 am

Seimens bypasses your electrical service and places an electrical hookup for the charger between the pole and your house electrical system.

I’m not sure how that would work in my neighborhood, where there are no poles. All the utilities are underground.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 14, 2022 3:00 pm

I’m not sure the electric company would like this. Your meter is usually at the house’s electric entrance. Put something between it and the pole will be frowned upon.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tim Gorman
August 15, 2022 4:20 am

Well, Seimens is installing these things so I guess the electric company can’t prevent them from doing so.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 15, 2022 4:19 am

I was told a new, extra service drop around here (a new pole and transformer) would cost about $60,000.

Bryan A
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 15, 2022 6:31 am

If the current TX is undersized for the additional load then Yes it would need to be sized up. If the existing pole were underclassed for the increased TX weight and added strain then Yes, it too would need replacing.
Say if your pole were a 40′ class 5 pole with a 15KVA TX serving your house alone, and you added a second service to a 50A EV charger…your Load would increase by 12kVA when you plugged in your car. If the 12kVA additional load increased your overall load to over 19kVA then your TX would need to be replaced with a 25KVA TX. Depending on its age and relative health, the pole might or might not be able to support the increased stress and could need to be replaced.

If you added a 90A EV charger for 2 cars then the TX might need to be sized even larger than 25.

3 houses with 2 EV charging stations each would require the largest available OH TX to be installed (100KVA) and leave little room for additional load.

John Hultquist
August 13, 2022 8:12 pm

I have mine. A 2019 F150 4-wheel white.
I suspect I own index funds that own Ford stocks and/or bonds.

garboard
August 13, 2022 8:32 pm

maine public radio set out to do an electric vehicle tour of maine last winter but had to turn back and head home to recharge without making it to their destination in the cold maine weather . but they loved the ev anyway , they said .

Last edited 1 month ago by garboard
Bob
August 13, 2022 8:33 pm

Most corporate management is dumb as a day is long.

John in Oz
August 13, 2022 8:46 pm

The cost comparison will be irrelevant if governments ban the sale of non-electric vehicles, similar to the ACT in Australia.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/motoring/act-ev-strategy-revealed-new-ice-vehicles-banned-from-2035-c-7585724

The Australian Capital Territory has officially announced its plans to end sales of new petrol and diesel vehicles by 2035 as part of a wide-reaching electric vehicle strategy.

By 2030, it’s aiming for 80-90 per cent of new vehicle sales to consist of what it calls zero-emissions vehicles (ZEVs), or battery-electric and hydrogen fuel-cell electric vehicles.

CD in Wisconsin
August 13, 2022 9:06 pm

Today’s cash price for a gasoline powered 2022 Ford F-150-XL is $33,315, while the Lightning F-150 XLT is listed at $53,000.

***************

Isn’t it interesting to know that something you paid $53,000 for could possibly combust spontaneously at any moment?

Burgher King
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
August 13, 2022 10:31 pm

When the battery explodes and the flames erupt, is the truck then converted instantly into an internal combustion vehicle?

Redge
Reply to  Burgher King
August 13, 2022 11:49 pm

I think that’s an external combustion vehicle

I could be wrong

Bryan A
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
August 15, 2022 6:36 am

And the price difference … spent on Gas … gives you about 96,000 miles of driving range to break even while the engine allows you to tow and haul more significant loads a much greater distance

AND you can refill the tank in 6-7 minutes at the pump

Dennis
August 13, 2022 11:06 pm

Mitsubishi Japan have announced that they do not plan to sell EVs in Australia, only Hybrid models because of the distances we drive and the lack of recharging stations nation wide.

Apparently city and suburban buyers are more likely to buy a much cheaper petrol engine or hybrid petrol model than an EV according to Mitsubishi surveys.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Dennis
August 14, 2022 4:16 am

It looks like Mitsubishi is letting the market decide.

That’s what every government should be doing. Instead, our governments are picking winners and losers and the real losers in such a situation, will be us.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Dennis
August 15, 2022 8:21 am

The head of Toyota, Aiko Toyoda recently said

“the current business model of the car industry is going to collapse” if industry shifts to EVs too quickly.

“Japan (for one) would run out of electricity in the summer if all cars were running on electric power”

“Most electricity is from coal and gas anyway”

“The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets. When politicians are out there saying ‘Lets get rid of all cars using gasoline’, do they understand this?”

Interestingly the IEA reported earlier this year that sales of EVs in Japan barely rose in 2021 and remained below 1% of all car sales over the last three years.

https://climatechangedispatch.com/toyota-warns-were-nowhere-near-ready-to-jettison-gas-powered-vehicles/

Carlo, Monte
August 14, 2022 8:02 am

Much like another Ford product from an earlier era***, these shiny bricks will in the future become monuments to watermelon idiocy.

***The Edsel

Pflashgordon
August 14, 2022 9:02 am

I have a 20 year old Chevrolet Tahoe for our heavy hauler, towing and family road trips. It runs like a champ and will likely outlast me. If I were to buy a plug-in electric anything, the ROI is essentially INFINITY.

For fun, I also bought a preowned BMW 440i gran coupe for about 1/2 the sticker price. I just compared it to a reasonably fitted Tesla 3, even a preowned. The alleged savings in Tesla operating costs (known to be one of the most unreliable vehicles made) would require about 15-25 years to close the gap in the higher purchase price of the Tesla. If I wanted a comparably sporty Tesla, payback is more on the order of 50-75 years.

Pflashgordon
August 14, 2022 9:08 am

Last Saturday, I saw a Tesla stuck on the side of the road 15 miles south of the next Tesla rapid charge station. The owner appears to have left Houston in 90+ heat expecting to get to Dallas on I-45. I could tell they were having a lot of fun cooking in roadside heat and breezes from passing 18-wheelers.

Mickey Reno
August 14, 2022 9:34 am

I live in a place that has no infrastructure for charging automobiles. It’s a Fort Lauderdale apartment complex, with uncovered, off-street parking. I live in a boat that connects to shore power provided at the dock, by a cable not unlike that that would be needed to charge an electric vehicle. I’m on a fixed income, and cannot afford a new vehicle. I drive a 25 year old Toyota Camry (my newest ever POS automobile). If I were to buy a new electric vehicle, I’d not only have a huge new car payment, I’d also have to pay interest on the auto loan, AND buy comprehensive insurance coverage, something I elect to live without, today, given that my vehicle, which runs like a champ, will never be worth protecting against damage. One year’s policy premiums would cost more than replacing my car.

Now imagine I did take that financial hit, and bought a new electric car. My apartment complex that pays for the electricity used within the complex, and charges the tenants extra in rent to cover the bill, will be forced to raise everyone’s rent to cover the cost of the electric bill, as well as the new infrastructure that will be needed along the front of the buildings to service dozens of parked cars. Let’s not forget the extra insurance the complex with have to buy in case one of our new little electric vehicles catches fire. Or, on the other hand, image I stick with my old Toyota POS vehicle. Now my rent will go up, and I will in effect be subsidizing the driving habits of my fellow apartment dwellers, most of whom earn more than I and have upside to their earning potential, those who can afford an electric vehicle are going to have me subsidizing their electricity bill. Imagine how happy I’ll be doing that…. all you dumb-asses who think electric vehicles for all will be some kind of nirvana. Pull your heads out of your asses, before it’s too late.

To such people, I say more CO2 in the air is good. Better than good, it’s great. it helps the plants grow, it helps the ocean life, it helps the oysters and the barnacles, the foraminifera, the trees. the gardens, the crops we