E-Vehicles Are Like Covid Vaccines: Sold to Public Based on Wildly Unrealistic Exaggerations

From the NoTricksZone

By P Gosselin


Breitbart here presents a report
 on Youtubers who compared an electric Ford F-150 pickup and a gasoline engine GMC Denali Ultimate Edition to see how far each could tow a trailer.

The results of the electric Ford pickup remind me of the promises made by the COVID vaccine manufacturers: wildly exaggerated and probably more harmful than beneficial. As the video shows: you’d have to be a moron to buy either knowing what we know today.

At the start of the trip, Ford’s onboard computer calculated the vehicle would be able to travel 160 miles (257 km) before needing to be recharged. The reality: only 85 miles, and that under ideal highway conditions! Imagine hilly country, in the wintertime. What a joke.

In summary, by the time you’d reach your destination (if ever), your vacation would be long over. Gasoline, and especially diesel, leave electric vehicles in the dust.

Communism, COVID vaccines and long-haul e-vehicles: all deliver just the opposite of what their makers promised.

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n.n
July 10, 2022 2:04 pm

Mutagenic, persistent, non-sterilizing treatments, assessed with short-term safety and efficacy, suitable for minority distribution.

Scissor
Reply to  n.n
July 10, 2022 2:24 pm

I miss the days when discussions of over population were prevalent.

lee riffee
Reply to  Scissor
July 10, 2022 3:55 pm

I hate to say it, but I miss the fear of nuclear holocaust that was ever present when I was growing up….But at least back then, a nuclear war really was something to fear (and still is!).

william Johnston
Reply to  lee riffee
July 10, 2022 5:55 pm

So when hasn’t there always been some fear of…..disaster?(fill in the blank)

Joe
Reply to  william Johnston
July 10, 2022 10:25 pm

Right! In the 18th century, British subjects were afraid of France and Spain!
My “preservation of angst” theory holds over centuries. Basically it states: “There’s always something to scare the punters with!”

Roger
Reply to  Joe
July 12, 2022 2:10 am

And rightly afraid of north Africa. Thousands from Devon and Cornwall were captured and sold as slaves in Africa.

Last edited 2 months ago by Roger
Redge
Reply to  william Johnston
July 10, 2022 11:31 pm

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

― H.L. Mencken

jeff corbin
Reply to  william Johnston
July 14, 2022 6:54 am

The effective time frame that a threat alarms a populace is relatively short. The freight train of self righteous action that a threat generates loses momentum, people forget and move on. In response, the threat is continuously messaged and shrilled ad absurdum. What I am afraid of being bored out of my mind

jeff corbin
Reply to  jeff corbin
July 14, 2022 7:01 am

After 5 years of doing duck and covers weekly, by 1968 the entire country was bored with it and abandoned it as absurd. Like worthless cloth/surgical masks and vaccines that did not stop the pandemic. Like the term “global warming” during the 18 year pause Like the popularity of CNN. Like the love for Biden.

Reply to  lee riffee
July 11, 2022 2:33 am

As we see daily, a non nuclear war isn’t somthing to be sneezed at either.

Doc Chuck
Reply to  n.n
July 10, 2022 4:05 pm

Please pardon the length but as a small token of gratitude for all I’ve learned from so many of you over several years I’d like to share a big picture perspective found hanging on an Irish uncle’s wall consisting of rhyming couplets from the named British authors at the end of each line. I’m sorry that I can make no attribution to a most impressively well-read compiler; and indeed if any of you know, I’d be very pleased to find out who it was.

Also a special hat tip here to Willis for his original data-driven graphics like nothing to be found elsewhere early in the Covid pandemic that enabled me to document several balanced medical advisements over some months (despite the media juggernaut already in play) to many interested family and friends regarding early indications of what comorbidities actually led to most of the severe outcomes and even how many hospitalized ‘Covid fatalities’ in the initial northern Italian experience were actually found to carry any recoverable SarsCov2 virus.

Why all this toil for triumphs of an hour?                Young
Life’s a short summer, man is but a flower.           Johnson
By turns we catch the vital breath, and die —          Pope
The cradle and the tomb, alas! so nigh.                  Prior
To be is better far than not to be,                       Sewel
Though all man’s life may seem a tragedy;             Spencer
But light cares speak when mighty griefs are dumb,     Daniel
The bottom is but shallow whence they come.          Raleigh
Your fate is but the common fate of all,                Longfellow
Unmingled joys here to no man befall.                 Southwell
                                 
Nature allots to each his proper sphere,               Congreve
Fortune makes folly her peculiar care!                 Churchhill
Custom does often reason overrule                    Rochester
And throw a cruel sunshine on a fool.                 Armstrong
Live well, how long or short permit to heaven;           Milton
They who forgive most shall be most forgiven.           Bailey
  
Sin may be clasped so close we cannot see its face —    Trench
Vile intercourse where virtue has not place.             Somerville
Then keep each passion down, however dear,         Thomson
Thou pendulum betwixt a smile and tear.                Byron
Her sensual snares let faithless pleasure lay,           Smollet
With craft and skill, to ruin and betray.                   Crabbe
Soar not too high to fall, but stoop to rise,              Massenger
We masters grow of all that we despise.                Cowley
  
Oh then, renounce that impious self-esteem;            Beattie
Riches have wings, and grandeur is a dream.           Cowper
Think not ambition wise because ’tis Brave,            Davenant
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.                  Gray
What is ambition? T’is a glorious cheat,                  Willis
Only destructive to the brave and great.                 Addison
What’s all the gaudy glitter of a crown?                  Dryden
The way to bliss lies not on beds of down.             Quarles
  
How long we live, not years but actions tell,             Watkins
That man lives twice who lives the first life well.         Herrick
Make then, while yet ye may, your God your friend,     Mason
Whom Christians worship, yet not comprehend.           Hill
The trust that’s given guard and to yourself, be just;     Dana
For live we how we can, yet die we must.             Shakespeare

Scissor
Reply to  Doc Chuck
July 10, 2022 5:09 pm

How much do I owe you? Do you still have my crack pipe? Hunter Biden

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Scissor
July 11, 2022 2:09 pm

Hunter clearly needed work on his iambic pentameter.

Don Jindra
Reply to  n.n
July 11, 2022 8:02 am

You’re spitting into the wind. The future is electric, like it or not.

Richard Page
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 11, 2022 9:59 am

The electric car is a concept from the past, resurrected from time to time but never overcoming it’s built-in failings.

TonyG
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 11, 2022 11:00 am

like it or not

Yeah, that’s the key. “You will own nothing and you will like it”

Don Jindra
Reply to  TonyG
July 13, 2022 6:00 am

“Yeah, that’s the key. ‘You will own nothing and you will like it’”

No. I plan on owning the vehicle. I don’t know why you imply electric is necessarily a part of a political agenda. It definitely is not in my case.

Jet jackson
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 11, 2022 8:24 pm

In some instances electric is worthwhile but range and recharge times are still a problem, when you get 1000 mile range and recharge in 20 minutes then you will have a battery that’s earns its keep, and if it can be remanufactured, that’s even better. For high torque, such as towing and long distance, diesel still is the best technology, it might be a ideological wish that batteries are the future but with current technology…no…its not going to work, that does not mean to say someone cannot make something work, but how efficient the whole process is, is another story.
If you live in urban areas and travel maybe 30 miles a day then electric works fine, but many people live in remote areas, where I live, nearest neighbour is 100 miles away, and in aviation, batteries just do not have the power to weight ration to fly, in the future, that may change, aviation is only a very small contributor to gasses, the gas problem is something that still has not ever been confirmed by anyone, so it is an awful lot of trouble for nothing, the more you look into it the more you find the effect of C02 is not what it was once thought to be, why do I think this, because where I live I took all the temperature data for the last 100 years, and can find no change in temperature for that period. It turns out in my part of the world, I’m not the only one to discover this.

MikedeTigre
Reply to  Jet jackson
July 12, 2022 8:39 pm

I do like the idea of battery-swapping used by some of the Chinese EV manufacturers. Takes not much longer than gassing up an ICE car. Much like the EV itself, it does seem difficult to manage – ensuring there is a replacement, you don’t end up with a broken one, etc. Something that Musk cast off after it didn’t catch on with customers.

Don Jindra
Reply to  Jet jackson
July 13, 2022 5:56 am

Of course batteries are the problem now. But I have confidence in science and technology. The battery problem will be solved. This is not my “ideological wish.” This has nothing to do with ideology. It has nothing to do with climate. It has to do with the fact that electric motors are much simpler, efficient and easier to maintain than internal combustion. I gravitate toward the simpler solution.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 13, 2022 6:22 am

Your ignorance is revealed, research the amount of raw metals would be needed.

jeff corbin
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 14, 2022 7:17 am

Many folks at WUWT that been waiting for a viable electrical storage system or the truly NEXT GEN BATTERY since the 1974 OPEC induced oil shortage when the US Oil companies tried to convince America that oil was soon to run out. Oil didn’t run out and the NEXT GEN BATTERY never happened. There is a rare possibility SC R&D may solve the problem…….a long shot.

This is the core issue. R&D that solves a real paradigmatic problem without creating more problems would be welcomed by all. Cheap, safe and easily modularized and transportable electricity for all is an amazing dream. Unfortunately, this is not the age we live in. No one is sure what the real problems are either to be solved nor avoided. There are other forces at work who see us as THE paradigmatic problem.

cpratt@telusplanet.net
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 11, 2022 9:02 pm

So you are FORCING me to go electric? Where exactly is the electricity coming from? The wall socket?

Don Jindra
Reply to  cpratt@telusplanet.net
July 13, 2022 6:04 am

“So you are FORCING me to go electric?”

Why do so many people jump to such ridiculous conclusions about others? I made no mention of force. There is no need of force when a technology proves it’s better and cheaper than another. I believe EV will do this, probably in ten years or less.

TonyG
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 13, 2022 7:35 am

“I believe EV will do this, probably in ten years or less.”

If that happens, fine, but people ARE trying to force the choice regardless of how well it works. If it actually happens, fine, and allow people to choose what works best for them. But I’ve heard these promises so much without any real progress – I’ll believe it when I see it.

IAMPCBOB
Reply to  TonyG
July 14, 2022 9:26 am

And, don’t forget that Joe Biden is kicking out ALL the stops in his efforts to eliminate ALL fossil fuels! He thinks by making gas and diesel too expensive, people will dump their current cars and DEMAND electrics! Never mind that they won’t GO very far, nor that there aren’t enough charging stations at present! He wants it NOW!

And some people don’t believe that he is deep into senility!

HotScot
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 13, 2022 12:17 pm

In the UK, we are being forced.

There are to be no sales of new ICE vehicles post 2025.

It won’t happen of course, and for all practical purposes, the EV will be dead in all but specialist environments.

To convert the entire UK fleet of private cars to EV’s will consume five times the known global reserves of certain minerals (Kelly 2019).

There are a fraction of the cars in the UK compared to both Europe and America. Then there’s South America, China and India.

So 50 to 100 times known reserves?

But alarmists wring their wittle handies and fret about Oil running out?

LOL. The whole this would be funny were so many people not dying to support your virtue signalling.

Do you enjoy employing children in the Congo to mine for minerals for your EV?

HotScot
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 13, 2022 1:45 pm

Here you are.

It’s called evidence. You know, the type of thing liberals utterly ignore in their quest for global domination!

https://redstate.com/mike_miller/2022/07/13/two-new-studies-drain-the-juice-out-of-bidens-electric-vehicle-schtick-n593845

ih_fan
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 12, 2022 7:26 am

The future is electric, like it or not.

And that’s it. You’ll purchase an electric vehicle and use it. You’ll have to adjust your entire daily routine, where you live, where you work, and your recreational activities to adjust.

Because libs know best how you need to live your lives. You’re too dumb to make your own choices.

Don Jindra
Reply to  ih_fan
July 13, 2022 6:13 am

“Because libs know best how you need to live your lives. You’re too dumb to make your own choices.”

You should ask questions before making such statements. I am not now nor have I ever been a ‘lib” — at least not what typically passes for one today. I do believe in the classic liberalism of most of our Founders, but that’s just being plain old American.

I say electric is the future because this is the free choice most people will make in the future. Yes, people might even adapt their routines and their lives to their mode of transportation. There is nothing new in that. It was done with horses. It was done with cars. It will be done with EV.

IAMPCBOB
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 14, 2022 9:36 am

Perhaps, but it won’t happen until the truly phenomenal problems are solved, such as actual, REAL driving range, batteries that can recharge in minutes, NOT hours, That do NOT combust for no real reason, that do NOT raise the cost of the EV to levels that MOST people can’t afford them, and also, don’t forget the FACT that there aren’t enough reserves of the rare earth minerals needed to RUN those EV’s on! Also, just like windmills and solar panels, it cost’s FAR, FAR more to manufacture them than it does for an ICE vehicle! Then what about the salvage and recycling cost’s? These are REAL problems that will take literally decades to solve, if ever. You can’t just flip a switch, as Biden thinks, and have it occur like magic! We have AMPLE time to try to solve these problems while keeping our current fleet of vehicles running.

Carlo, Monte
July 10, 2022 2:06 pm

In essence, the pickup on the right was towing two loads—the trailer and the huge battery that lasted only 85 miles (136 km). Makes sense to me!

Simon from Kiwi-ville won’t like this one.

Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 10, 2022 2:18 pm

If the trailer was full of batteries it might do little better.

Derg
Reply to  co2isnotevil
July 10, 2022 2:36 pm

Hahahahha. I always thought they should pull a windmill and use the power for the batteries 😉

tomo
Reply to  Derg
July 10, 2022 3:51 pm

Derg….

somebody got there before you (sort-of)

>> not a windmill – but a Hydrogen producing water turbine on a sailboat!

They”re looking for funding

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  tomo
July 11, 2022 5:35 am

An 18 foot boat to charge 10 to 20 phones? That sounds like a very practical idea.

Mark BLR
Reply to  Derg
July 11, 2022 4:42 am

It’s not just the “quantum” version of physics that can be counter-intuitive, the basic “Newtonian” version can often be mind-boggling as well … even for professional physicists !

URL : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird_(wind-powered_vehicle)

From that article :

In 2012, Blackbird also demonstrated sailing directly upwind with twice the speed of the wind.

My initial reaction on first reading about the Blackbird demonstrator was a less polite version of “WTF ?!?”.

Later in the article :

In summary:

Upwind, the rotor harvests the power from the oncoming air and drives the wheels, as would a wind turbine.

Downwind, when the vehicle is traveling faster than the windspeed, the ground is the fastest-moving medium relative to the vehicle, so the wheels harvest the power and impart it to the rotor, which propels the vehicle.

Me : “Yeah … OK … but still, WTF ?!? …”

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Mark BLR
July 11, 2022 5:37 am

That vehicle isn’t just a bird chopper. The driver looks to be in a precarious position.

Speed
Reply to  Mark BLR
July 11, 2022 1:18 pm

They should never have taken propellors off of airplanes — by the above logic they would have done better with propellors, big wheels and no wings.

IAMPCBOB
Reply to  Mark BLR
July 14, 2022 9:47 am

OK, why not put a huge windmill on top of the car to produce all the electricity it needs? Of course, when the wind isn’t blowing, you might experience a slight reduction in available power, but, oh well, ‘science’ will soon solve that problem, too!

TonyG
Reply to  IAMPCBOB
July 14, 2022 10:21 am

Great idea! That way, the faster you drive the more power you produce! You would never run out!

Davod
Reply to  Derg
July 11, 2022 12:51 pm

Or a gas powered generator.

Chris Nisbet
Reply to  co2isnotevil
July 10, 2022 3:11 pm

A clever driver would put a FF-powered generator in the trailer. 😉

Art-Kingston
Reply to  co2isnotevil
July 10, 2022 3:42 pm

🤣 🤣 🤣

Dennis
Reply to  co2isnotevil
July 10, 2022 9:54 pm

I read recently that the desperate to get the transition to EV completed there is now a prototype caravan with electric motors driving the wheels and a battery pack on board with controls, much like electric trailer brake control, enabling the tow vehicle driver to control the caravan speed and tow vehicle speed from a single point.

So add to a very expensive towing capable EV and a very expensive EV caravan, and then consider twice the recharging waiting time.

The perfect solutions to problems that don’t exist, internal combustion engine vehicles are not a problem.

Gerry, England
Reply to  Dennis
July 11, 2022 7:03 am

Fancy sleeping in a caravan with a big lithium battery? No, me neither.

ih_fan
Reply to  Gerry, England
July 12, 2022 7:28 am

It’ll have a built-in heater!

Single use only, though.

cpratt@telusplanet.net
Reply to  co2isnotevil
July 11, 2022 9:03 pm

But then the mileage would be even less due to the weight

ih_fan
Reply to  co2isnotevil
July 12, 2022 7:27 am

If the trailer was full of batteries it might do little better.

Or a diesel generator.

HotScot
Reply to  co2isnotevil
July 13, 2022 1:48 pm

Not much. You have to add the weight of the batteries in the trailer to whatever’s being towed.

Friction’s a bitch…….

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 5:32 am

I know an auto engineer who said when they towed a trailer in the mountains of Colorado the range went down to just over 10 miles. Do they have charging stations that close together?

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
July 11, 2022 6:55 am

This would be … no.

Out in eastern Utah, there is a stretch of Interstate 70 that goes through the San Rafael Swell (desert) where it is over 100 miles between gas stations (and just about anything else, except for scenic overlooks).

Meab
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 8:45 am

It is worse than just getting 85 miles. 85 miles was starting with a full battery. A Ford Lightning takes 100 minutes to charge from 0 to 100%. It can charge from 10 to 80% in 41 minutes. Nobody is going to wait 100 minutes for a full charge so if you start the next stint with an 80% charge and take the battery down to 10% you’ll only get 60 miles on the next leg.

Counting the time to pull off the road, disconnect the trailer (no pull-through chargers), and reconnect the trailer, that’s about one minute of charging time for every mile traveled.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Meab
July 11, 2022 9:50 am

Sign me up!

Jeff L
July 10, 2022 2:16 pm

On the flip side, at least you could sleep in your camper each time you needed a charge. Haha 😂😂

Rich Davis
Reply to  Jeff L
July 10, 2022 2:26 pm

Better have a portable generator and plenty of gas cans

Steve Richards
Reply to  Jeff L
July 11, 2022 3:00 am

Sleep on top of all those batteries!!!!!!

Giorgio
Reply to  Steve Richards
July 11, 2022 4:46 am

Yes, chances are you’ll get a bit warm. Lithium battery fires are no joke

Devils Tower
July 10, 2022 2:23 pm

The range of the ford lightning is an issue, no shit.

This is with an empty 6k lb trailer.

I have a f150 with a v8 and limit of 12k lbs. What a joke. My no load range is 800 miles. With a 28 ft trailer loaded, maybe 350 miles.

I was waiting to look at the new ford in line 6 designed specifically for a hybred. What the hell happened to it, buy the crap lightning. What a joke..

By by ford…

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Devils Tower
July 10, 2022 3:37 pm

Ford virtue signaling does not improve their stock value. OTOH, there is probably still a significant local contractor market for the Lightning F150. Especially in blue cities where virtue signaling is thought a virtue.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 5:36 pm

How about a market in Lighting insignia? Look good and have a truck that works.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
July 11, 2022 6:19 am

You may be onto something there.
Maybe a double lightning bolt insignia on your shirt collar.
Send the appropriate message.

Last edited 2 months ago by Pat from kerbob
IAMPCBOB
Reply to  Devils Tower
July 14, 2022 9:44 am

Well, as someone once said, “If you put lipstick on a pig, it will STILL be a pig!” To me, EV’s are the ugliest pigs I’ve ever seen!

Stephen Dudley Haner
July 10, 2022 2:26 pm

You had my attention without the anti-vax nonsense, which blew your credibility with me. But thanks for the video.

Scissor
Reply to  Stephen Dudley Haner
July 10, 2022 3:32 pm

Concern over waning efficacy and adverse safety profile is there for all to see if one only looks, but at a time when there should be more data transparency, data is disappearing instead.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Scissor
July 10, 2022 3:54 pm

On vaccines, a few observations. It was known from the gitgo that this virus would mutate rapidly, so any vaccine efficacy would wane. At the outset, we did not know how rapidly. Now we do—very fast. At the outset, COVID-19 destroyed deep lung tissue (X-ray ‘broken glass’ signature). We knew it would mutate toward more transmissible but less virulent. It did, much faster than we feared.
What started out as a well intentioned vaccine strategy against a deadly disease has become a purely pharma financial and political public health boondoggle.

Bill
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 4:17 pm

There is very little that a bureaucrat or politician does that is “well intentioned”. They have enough people fooled to think their intentions are always good. They are not! They are the part of humanity that does medical experiments on the population, abuses children, steals property, abuses older population, lies to everybody, and threatens anyone who disagrees with them. They build gulags, create bread-lines, commit mass murder, disincentivize work, destroy morality (churches), lower human existence to its lowest level, reward stupidity and punish creativity, try to make the worst of them seem cool, shove everybody down the rabbit hole, make sure the rich get richer while the poor get poorer, and are the biggest polluters.

All in all, these aren’t very nice people and I for one wouldn’t ever give them the benefit of the doubt!

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 4:57 pm

The ChiComs are old hands at spreading epidemics which Fraudci, Dems, & the MSM
helped cover up. Traitors!

https://nypost.com/2022/07/09/covid-wont-be-the-last-epidemic-china-helps-spread/

Last edited 2 months ago by Old Man Winter
Rick C
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 9:39 pm

Yup. As I read this, I’m recovering from C-19 Omicron -probably BA.5. Double vaxxed and boosted. Pretty useless. Maybe symptoms are less sever but others I know who are unvaxxed have had symptoms no worse than mine.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Rick C
July 11, 2022 6:58 am

The gene treatments do nothing except kill your immune system (ignoring the myriad of side-effects).

Over 1200 people died during the “clinical trial”, and Pfizer tried to hide this inconvenient little fact.

Barnes Moore
Reply to  Rick C
July 11, 2022 11:19 am

In case you are unaware, check out the FLCCC website for protocols that may help treat in the event you develop problems with the vax or have issues with long covid. The doctors at FLCCC look to actually treat patients in addition to providing info on how to reduce risk of infection to begin with – all without the vax’s.

StevenF
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 11:00 pm

It is also important to understand that respiratory viruses, that infect the respiratory epithelium, don’t go into the body. What I mean by that is if you breath in a measles virus, it is absorbed into the body through the lungs where it travels to the skin or organs where it will be absorbed and infect those cells. During that period (incubation time), the virus can be attacked and neutralized by the immune system that has been revved up by a vaccine. Respiratory viruses (COVID, Flu) never get into the circulatory system until after the infection is well underway, because the target cells are the cells that line the lungs, which technically is outside of the body’s defense mechanisms.

The idea that a flu or COVID vaccine will prevent an infection has never been correct. The idea that it can minimize an infection after it has begun by accelerating the immune response is true.

Reply to  StevenF
July 10, 2022 11:26 pm

The claim that Covid vaccines prevented Covid deaths can not be proven. All cause US deaths in 2020 with no vaccines were the same as US all cause deaths in 2021 with vaccines. Both about +20% higher than in 2019.

There is no evidence of lives saved
in all-cause mortality data.

Concerning the less desirable deaths with Covid statistic: Those deaths were MUCH HIGHER in 2021 with vaccines than in 2020 with no vaccines.

You live in a world of wishful thinking about the vaccines. No proof of lives saved.
Just data free beliefs.

In addition, the triple vaccinated are much more
likely to get Omicron infections, which are not reduced
by vaccines. There is some evidence that three vaccines
damages the immune system.

The Covid vaccines were not safe, and were
not effective. They were a disaster with the
worst adverse side effects (in total number of people
seriously injured), by far, of any vaccine in history.

Rainer Bensch
Reply to  Richard Greene
July 11, 2022 3:51 am

But those who were vaccinated died faster than the infected who had to be ventilated for weeks and used up many hospital beds equipped with expensive appliances. /s

StevenF
Reply to  Richard Greene
July 11, 2022 9:28 am

Richard, Please don’t read into my comments something that I didn’t say. I’ve didn’t make the point that the COVID vaccine can save lives. That’s impossible to prove. The data is much too noisy (all cause mortality is a blunt instrument that can never prove such a specific, there are just too many confounders). There are also legitimate concerns that the vaccine has serious side effects which also confounds the situation. I also don’t appreciate the ad hominin comment in the middle.

The point I was making is that a respiratory virus is different from other viruses because the point of attack is the outside of the body (just inside the respiratory tree). The virus doesn’t come into contact with the immune system until after it has established an infection not before like most other viruses. So these vaccines (flu and COVID for example) will not easily prevent an infection in the same way that measles or rabies vaccines will. This is a function of physiology and is as immutable in this situation as physics in other situations. But these vaccines can ramp up the immune system so that the immune system responds quicker once an infection is established. But all this was a general comment. Some people understood from the beginning that these vaccines would not prevent infection just like the flu vaccine doesn’t really prevent people from getting the flu.

Reply to  StevenF
July 11, 2022 10:13 am

Funny but I was told over and over again by the experts that these vaccines would prevent the virus, in fact they claimed 95% efficiency at preventing the virus. In fact i cant tell you how many people got called anti-vacers just for point this out in the first place. Darth Lord Fauci said it over and over agian.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  bob boder
July 11, 2022 11:11 am

After which, the claimed efficacy degraded over time downward from the 95% lie, as documented by various gov health official communications.

Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 12:38 pm

Absolute risk reduction was claimed to be about one percent after two months. Probably optimum
timing for vaccine manufacturers. Assuming that is true — I doubt it. That tiny AR reduction would decline rapidly over the next six months.

StevenF
Reply to  bob boder
July 11, 2022 9:00 pm

If you ever read an immunology article it is very dense and ponderous to read, unless you read it all the time. Comparatively speaking vaccines are relatively simple. You stimulate the immune system, you mount an immune response, and hopefully deactivate the infecting organism.

Unfortunately, a lot of experts don’t think about the basics, like in this case the route of infection. But that is what made these vaccines less likely to prevent an infection.

Reply to  StevenF
July 11, 2022 12:36 pm

The vaccine manufacturers did not claim their vaccines prevented infection and spread in their EAU documents. The claim was that they reduced hospitalizations and they implied that meant they should reduce deaths too. There were deaths during the two-month trials, but the companies themselves were allowed to claim those deaths were unrelated to Covid infections — which was
a huge financial conflict of interest.

Where is the proof that Covid shots kept people out of hospitals, and kept them from dying?
Only in your imagination.

Flu vaccines are relatively safe for the limited protection they provide. Covid vaccines were the least safe vaccines in the history of vaccines. based on the HUGE number of serious averse
side effects reported. This is not a close call.

You say the vaccines “will not easily prevent an infection” … and then contradict yourself by explaining exactly why they can NOT prevent
an infection.

You say “But these vaccines can ramp up the immune system so that the immune system responds quicker once an infection is established.”

Prove it.

That statement is certainly not true for Omicron, which the vaccine was not designed for, yet in 2022 Omicron is the dominant “so-called” Covid variant.

The immune system responds to Omicron just like it responds to any other common cold — cured in 2 to 7 days. The vaccine has no effect on Omicron.

Omicron rarely has serious symptoms that an Omicron vaccine, if one existed, would be
claimed to reduce.

I have provided two statistics in my comments to show that Covid vaccines are not saving lives:

(1) All cause mortality, which had a huge increase in 2020 from Covid deaths, but no decrease in 2021 with Covid vaccines, and

(2) Deaths within 28 days following a positive Covid test, which are called Covid deaths, were much higher in 221 than in 2020

Statistics for Covid hospitalizations are useless
because up to half the people claimed to be
“Covid patients” in a study of NYC hospitals
DID NOT ENTER those hospitals for Covid symptoms. They entered for OTHER medical problems. They were routinely given a PCR test.
If that test was positive, they were declared to be “Covid patients”, even with NO SYMPTOMS.
And the hospital made more money for each “Covid patient” (and “Covid death”) too.

I provide data.
You provide personal opinons.
and criticize all data that do not support your opinions. That’s not honest medical science.
You provide pro-vaccine wishful thinking.

if you consider that a second ad hominem attack,
perhaps you will try for three?

The medical profession’s response to Covid put the reputation of doctors around the world into the toilet. — The lack of early treatments before hospitalization. The demonization of effective off-label drugs such as ivermectin. I suspect you are part of the disinformation campaign by the US medical community.

StevenF
Reply to  Richard Greene
July 11, 2022 8:45 pm

Richard.

Where is the proof that Covid shots kept people out of hospitals, and kept them from dying?
Only in your imagination.”

I don’t know why you keep doing this. I am not arguing with you. But you keep making up things that I supposedly say and then making snide comments about them. I never said that COVID shots kept people out of hospitals and kept them from dying. You seem to enjoy disparaging me about things that aren’t even true. What I find interesting is how aggressive you are about it.

None of what you said about me is true. So please stop it. Interestingly, I don’t disagree with many of your points.

StevenF
Reply to  Richard Greene
July 11, 2022 8:53 pm

I was just going to leave one comment (below) but I just want understand your thinking. I quote:

You say the vaccines “will not easily prevent an infection” … and then contradict yourself by explaining exactly why they can NOT prevent
an infection.”

Could you please explain your thinking here? How am I contradicting myself? You capitalized the word NOT even though I never really used it but I agree with the general point. How am I contradicting myself?

Doonman
Reply to  Stephen Dudley Haner
July 10, 2022 4:52 pm

I’m sitting here reading your remarks fully vaccinated with 2 boosters and recovering from a case of covid 19 that appeared out of nowhere when I tested positive on July 5th.

Sure glad my pro-vax credibility is still good with you. Now tell me why the vaccine didn’t work please.

Reply to  Doonman
July 10, 2022 8:15 pm

The vaccine does not prevent Covid infections or spread.
The vaccine is not designed for Omicron,
which is a coronavirus common cold, not Covid,
with the same symptoms of any common cold virus.

If you recover in 2 to 7 days, you most likely had Omicron
If you recover in 1 to 3 weeks, you most likely had Covid.

Does the Covid vaccine save lives?
NO

In 2020, with no vaccines, US all cause deaths were about 20% higher than in 2019

Im 2021, with vaccines, US all cause deaths were about 20% higher than 2019 = NO IMPROVEMENT OVER 2020

Reported serious adverse vaccine injuries are about 50x higher than other vaccines in history (VAERS database).
Election Circus: 1,575,030 Covid vaccine side effects reported, through 7/1/22 — unlikely to be more than 10% of injuries reported —- unprecedented in vaccine history

If you trust the deaths with Covid statistic, those deaths were
much higher in 2021 with vaccines (under Biden) than in 2020 with no vaccines (under Trump)
Chart here:
Election Circus: Deaths of people who tested positive for Covid in prior month: Trump vs. Biden

Need I say more?

Don Jindra
Reply to  Richard Greene
July 11, 2022 8:12 am

“Does the Covid vaccine save lives? NO”

Today, almost none. But there is no doubt whatsoever that the vaccines saved many lives before Omicron. When people start glossing over this well-documented fact they are being idiotic. Likewise, when people start evangelizing for a vaccine for a disease as mild as Omicron, they are being idiotic. Today too many people stick to dogmatic positions. Ideology makes people stupid.

Reply to  Don Jindra
July 11, 2022 12:40 pm

“But there is no doubt whatsoever that the vaccines saved many lives before Omicron.”

PROVE IT, OR YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER PERSON WITH A DATA-FREE OPINION.

Reply to  Doonman
July 11, 2022 2:50 am

You are still alive. The vaccine did work.

Ultimately the purpose of lockdown was to slow down rate of serious infection so that health services were not overwhelmed. Here in te UK that did in fact work, and coincersatins with healthcare workers showed that there were many people dying at that time in intensive care.

The purpose ofthevaccine was to prevent peole ending up in intensive care to start with.

That the virus woulod mutate was always known, the hope was that through vaccines and exposure people who survived would develop immunity whilst the virus itself would mutate towards non lethality.

That i, the vaccines were a short term fix for the most lethal strains.

The philsophical Problem of Induction means that no one can ever know what would have happened if the response had been different.

The virus is real, was real and people died of it, and there is a resurgence of cases amongst everyone including the vaxxed right now.

I dont see a point in railing against governments who really didnt know what they were doing and couldn’t know. Simple people seem to like to be told what to do, so they were.

Like a mechanic loading the parts cannon, governments threw vaccines and lockdowns and masks at the issue until it went away, possibly of its own accord. Its back now, but at a lower severity.

Its easy to blame governments for pretending to be in control of the world when they aren’t, but if they were to admit that, would the stupid people elect them?

I suspect a narrative that is nearer the truth is that we – the technologists – have built a world that is way too complex for most people to understand, and certainly way too complex for politicians to manage.

Political conservatism that would leave the markets free to manage it and only intervene when a crisis was so obviously in need of intervention that it was politically uncontentious, would be optimal, but who when in power can resist a bit of fingerpoken or moralising virtue signalling?

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Leo Smith
July 11, 2022 5:44 am

My son-in-law was not vaxxed. He had COVID-19 and is still alive. My daughter (his wife) was vaxxed and has had COVID-19 at least three times. But you’re telling me that my daughter would be dead if she didn’t have the vaccine and is much better off. I think you need to do some further research.

joe x
Reply to  Leo Smith
July 11, 2022 6:09 am

its not a vaccine.

mkelly
Reply to  joe x
July 11, 2022 6:41 am

Joe I up ticked you because I agree. But under the new revised definition of vaccine it qualifies.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  Doonman
July 11, 2022 6:35 am

The vax may have saved your life.
But since a large proportion of those infected did not even realize they had Covid, your situation comes down to belief.
I had three shots last summer and got Covid in January which was a moderate cold.
Would it have been worse without the shots?
Flip a coin.
I was traveling a lot from Nov 2019 to March 2020 when Trudeau shut it all down.
I had something in December and something else in February

I quit drinking (mostly) 6 years ago due to allergies to alcohol worsening, the best part of it is I stopped getting colds almost completely. Totally unexpected.
Since I got my three shots I’ve had cold after cold, more in ten months than the previous 5 years combined

Still waiting for some one to explain that to me other than “it’s all in your mind”.

Doonman
Reply to  Pat from kerbob
July 11, 2022 10:04 am

I’m not dead yet and I’m feeling better. So my immune system is working. But there is a world of difference between saying a vaccine may have saved your life, did save your life or will prevent you from getting sick.

Traditionally, vaccines were a preparation of a weakened or killed pathogen given to stimulate an active immune response to prevent you from getting sick from the actual pathogen.

In other words, you are immune. Something has changed in the definition of the word “Vaccine” as everyone who contracts the illness after being vaccinated can attest.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Doonman
July 11, 2022 7:00 am

You got sick.

Did people get polio with paralysis after having a polio vaccination?

PCman999
Reply to  Stephen Dudley Haner
July 10, 2022 10:40 pm

It’s not “anti-vax” nonsense – it’s anti-pharma profiteering, anti-medical-experiments-under-the-guise-of-“safe and effective vaccine” with less than a year testing.

Enjoy your blood clots, cardiac problems and mRNA building up in your liver, and all the other things public health said would not happen.

Teddy Lee
Reply to  Stephen Dudley Haner
July 11, 2022 1:44 am

Might interest you to peruse data released by both UK and Canadian government agencies.
https://expose-news.com have a raft of data,that is really eye popping.

Don Jindra
Reply to  Stephen Dudley Haner
July 11, 2022 8:05 am

“You had my attention without the anti-vax nonsense”

Exactly. I wish this channel would stick to the climate and avoid the stupid politics and ideology that isn’t directly concerned with climate.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 11, 2022 9:53 am

Not from around here?

Richard Page
Reply to  Don Jindra
July 11, 2022 10:06 am

Feel free to skip over the bits you disagree with (I usually do, occasionally I’ll post) – this site has a very broad range of topics so there’s usually something for almost everyone.

littlepeaks
July 10, 2022 2:33 pm

Our utilities provider has switched from coal, and is always raising the rates. I wonder how utility companies will be able to supply enough electricity to power all the recharging stations, if we go to 100% electric vehicles.

Spetzer86
Reply to  littlepeaks
July 10, 2022 3:35 pm

They won’t. They aren’t supposed to. You want to hear how the Smart Grid will use car batteries to power the system in the off hours?

Iain Reid
Reply to  Spetzer86
July 10, 2022 11:36 pm

Spetzer86,

all adding to a further loss of efficiency.
Also you refer to using car batteries to power off times, that’s illogical. It is off times that generators ramp down, there is spare capcity then and lower demand. That is untill there are so many evs charging at off peak that the peak time alters.
Storage is not an answert ot grid supplies, it’s effect will be margiinal but reliable generation capacity, is what is required.

AWG
Reply to  littlepeaks
July 10, 2022 3:42 pm

When your neighbors beef up their homes by adding a fast charge, think of those units as yet another home each on the grid with a demand for dispatchable power.

Who do you think is going to pay for the new generation plants, the upsized distribution system to your neighborhood and the likely increase in “disparate impact” fees?

Your neighbors adding electric cars to their daily/weekly demand will by necessity increase electricity rates for everyone.

Peter
Reply to  littlepeaks
July 10, 2022 6:46 pm

And it is not only the amount of “green” electrons that we have to worry about. Without a major overhaul, the current electricity grid is not able to handle the large amount of electricity in case of all vehicles become EVs.

Reply to  Peter
July 11, 2022 2:52 am

One of the more shocking statistics in the BP energy report was the rate of inflation of lithium cobalt

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Leo Smith
July 11, 2022 6:24 am

The IEA recently said the price of lithium had increased by almost 750% between Jan 2021 and March 2022. They foresee potential worldwide shortages of both lithium and cobalt by 2025.

Last edited 2 months ago by Dave Andrews
Kevin MacKay
Reply to  Dave Andrews
July 14, 2022 10:41 am

Historical examples of harvest-induced resource shortages?
… colapses due to lack of ….

Last edited 2 months ago by Kevin MacKay
another ian
Reply to  littlepeaks
July 10, 2022 8:40 pm

EV Fuel

comment image?ssl=1

In The Real World
Reply to  littlepeaks
July 11, 2022 6:26 am

In the UK they are already warning of widescale blackouts next Winter , and the minister for energy is desperately trying to keep some coal fired power stations going which were supposed to close this year .
And this is with only about 1% of vehicles being battery EVs .
For 20% of vehicles to charge up at any time would need double , [100% increase ], in generation capacity .

So the whole idea is just more insanity .

Mike Lowe
Reply to  In The Real World
July 11, 2022 2:03 pm

And the EV enthusiasts will say that the solution is batteries!

Derg
July 10, 2022 2:37 pm

Safe and effective

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Derg
July 10, 2022 2:45 pm

While killing 1000s…

Chaswarnertoo
July 10, 2022 2:46 pm

Synthetic fuel or hydrogen. Electric ( coal fired ) cars are a dead end.

Spetzer86
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
July 10, 2022 3:36 pm

Wonder where most of the hydrogen comes from?…..Oh, yeah, natural gas!

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
July 10, 2022 3:56 pm

Hydrogen is a dead end. See essay Hydrogen Hype in ebook Blowing Smoke. Synthetic fuel from natgas or coal, maybe not. But expensive.

Reply to  Chaswarnertoo
July 11, 2022 2:54 am

Less a dead end, more a niche market.

The real problem is the enforcment of all this before its reaslly necessary. Right now the high price of gas is forcing Europe to stay with coal, consider new nuclear, and look at alternatives to oil and gas.

But is preventing the correct solutions by massively distorting the market with green taxes and subsidies.

Clay Sanborn
July 10, 2022 3:14 pm

In the open space of the featured trailer, place a 40 KwH diesel generator cabled to the PU’s recharge port. With a 100 gal diesel fuel tank, you can go a long way. 🙂

Bryan A
Reply to  Clay Sanborn
July 10, 2022 3:41 pm

But you could go even farther with a diesel ICE on that same 100 gal diesel fuel tank just supplying fuel to the Diesel Engine, bypassing the need for the battery weight. And still be able to put a Quad in the Toy Hauler

john
July 10, 2022 3:35 pm

Ford isn’t buying the ev thing. They are not ramping up production. That said, Here a bit from Africa.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-07-10/europe-s-africa-gas-imports-risk-climate-goals-leave-millions-without-power?srnd=premium

John Bell
Reply to  john
July 10, 2022 4:48 pm

I thought FORD was building a big new plant ($1B) to build E cars and trucks?

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  John Bell
July 11, 2022 5:58 am

$1B is fairly small in the auto plant world.

Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 3:38 pm

The all electric Ford Lightning F150 might make sense for around town contractors who by definition don’t drive all day, just to suppliers and job sites. It makes no sense for any road hauling, as shown here. Doesn’t have to be a trailer. A heavy loaded pickup bed would get the same awful road hauling results.

A hybrid F150 makes all the sense in the world and Ford is nuts not to have one already. We have a MY 2007 AWD, class one tow hitch, Ford Escape hybrid with the equivalent of 206 hp. We got the hybrid premium back day one thru fed tax credit, and compared to the equally capable 2007 Escape AWD 208 hp 3L V6, we have already saved over $10k in gas. ~50% better mpg, and regular versus premium. No battery issues at 14 years and almost 90k miles. (We are retired, and have a MY 2000 BMW convertible second car for Fort Lauderdale jaunts. Only about 60k miles. We just ‘invested’ in full rust repair for both, as we live on the ocean. They will both now last at least another decade.)

Our ‘full’ hybrid Escape small SUV has 4 tricks:

  1. Engine off at idle improves city milage.
  2. Regen braking improves city and Georgia mountain road milage.
  3. Downsize engine to a 2L Atkinson cycle I4 with ‘only’ 130 hp. (Ford smart—same pistons, connecting rods, cams (but shorter) and crank (but shorter) and crank bearings as the 3L V6.) Atkinson cycle picks up >15% mpg over Otto cycle, but at a cost of big loss of low rpm torque. The smaller engine offsets most of the hybrid traction battery/electric machine weight so hybrid curb weight is only 200# more than the V6. Tire wear the same, brake wear less thanks to regen.
  4. The torque boost from the 76 hp equivalent electric machine more than offsets the Atkinson cycle torque loss. The car can really pop. High torque Electric machine only up to 18mph before the engine kicks in. Can also motor a few miles under 18mph on battery only, which we do on gravel forest service roads going fishing along the Toccoa river in north Georgia mountains.

All those things are why the Army has already speced the new Bradley Fighting Vehicle replacement as a full hybrid. Much better field fuel logistics, some truly silent running, more juice for electronics, not overall heavier for air transport. They are seriously considering this also for their new ‘light tank’ (love the Army I was in, ‘light’ is 30 tons versus Abrahms 60 tons), but a final decision is still pending the RFI preliminary design submissions now in process.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 4:51 pm

I should make a disclaimer. I follow this esoteric energy stuff closely because am the inventor on some basic enabling supercap materials patents. And especially useful for ‘heavy’ applications, a combo battery/supercap (aka batcap, about 2/3 to 1/3 with a necessary voltage converter to prevent the battery ‘clamping’ the supercap) has been shown experimentally ‘ideal’ for power plus system longevity by Argonne Labs—even in ‘light’ Chevy Volt applications. The Navy (for sure, personal experience) and Army (inferred) do pay attention to Argonne National Lab experimental results.

NavarreAggie
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 5:19 pm

Rud,
Follow your posts all the time, love the input. I’m a little confused about the F150 hybrid comment, though…

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/features/hybrid/

Rud Istvan
Reply to  NavarreAggie
July 10, 2022 5:46 pm

Good for you. My outdated sources said they had not yet marketed it. I would buy one in a heartbeat if needed, but no longer do.

Richard Page
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 11, 2022 5:44 pm

I’m wondering how they’ll find enough batteries for the hybrid Bradley replacement? By the time they want to test a prototype all the raw materials will have been used up in cars, buses, mobile phones etc: they’ll have to fit them with about half a million ‘AA’s’! sarc (oh yes it is)

meab
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 11, 2022 7:24 pm

Rud, I usually agree with almost everything you write, but not when it comes to vehicles.

1) Ford has a hybrid F150. The same guys who posted the video on the Lightning’s poor towing performance (The Fast Lane Trucks) have posted videos on the hybrid. They’re actually headed to the North Slope of Alaska right now with the hybrid and the Lightning. They plan to charge the Lightning with the hybrid’s Pro Power Onboard option when they can’t find a suitable charger.

2) Carrying a load in the pickup bed doesn’t affect mileage anywhere near as much as towing a travel trailer. It’s the additional wind resistance that kills the trailer range. Weight hurts only in accelerating and going uphill. You get most of that extra energy back on the downhills.

3) The 2007 Ford Escape hybrid does 0-60 in 10.7 seconds. That’s a dog. A dog that won’t hunt.

By the way, I own two hybrids – an SUV and a car, but not Fords. I’ve only owned one Ford in my life – a Ford Ranger. I bought it new but it was so bad (ride, acceleration, gas mileage, comfort) I sold it a month later and resumed driving my old Chevy S10.

TonyG
Reply to  meab
July 12, 2022 8:26 am

The 2007 Ford Escape hybrid does 0-60 in 10.7 seconds

My son has exactly that vehicle. It’s been a nightmare – we have to go to a dealer to bleed the brakes and the hybrid battery has been causing all sorts of problems for us.

Could be a lemon but it has certainly soured us on considering a hybrid again.

Meab
Reply to  TonyG
July 12, 2022 8:44 am

A quick look online confirms that the most common problem with the 2007 Ford Escape hybrid is the brakes. Not my first choice for something to have a problem with.

tgasloli
July 10, 2022 3:48 pm

1)Love the headline, spot on.
2)I guess they plan on selling the EV pickup to all the suburban mom’s who only drive them to the supermarket. If you use a pick up as a pick up an EV version is insane.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  tgasloli
July 10, 2022 4:25 pm

Politely disagree. If you use the Ford Lightning F150 as a local contractor in a blue city, you pick up marketing cred with almost no liabilities. You start your day by going to the local Home Depot to load supplies. You drive to the job site and work all day. Then you drive home and plug in for the night. EV works fine in that scenario. No range anxiety. Battery never deep discharges, so lasts a long time.
A not so small ‘niche’ market. Ford smart, IMHO.

Let’s not get too excited about the post road haul application to which it is definitely not suited. Counter: the Lightning cannot do both where a regular ICE F150 can. But how many RV towing contractor logo emblazoned F150’s has anyone seen on the highways to vacations. Me, almost none. They go to thier alternative SUV to haul the family along also.

My bigger point is simple. We skeptics win when the facts are simple and clear. We tend to lose in over-exaggerations or oversimplifications, as here. That is what the other side almost always does, which we should therefore not do by contrast.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 4:38 pm

I agree the hyperbole is unnecessary, but the point you make is the same, you would need two vehicles instead of one to get ALL the jobs done.

Same thing as renewables, they sort of work some of the time but you need 100% reliable backup so you are building 2 complete generation grid so $$$$.

Why do either?
Unless you are super rich and then throw in a private jet too?
And a football team to, because Pink Floyd said so.

OweninGA
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 4:52 pm

The price difference when I looked at them was prohibitive.

Same with their hybrid F-150: the large capacity variant was $96000 before the dealer add-ons. It has a lot of bells and whistles, and has the ability to power all the equipment at the job site, but my sticker shock was overwhelming. The non-hybrid variant was around 50000. The business would have to make sure that the extra 50 grand was going to bring in more business to make it worth it over the life of the asset. I don’t think it will.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 6:26 pm

That’ll work just fine. UNTIL you are chosen to participate in a rolling blackout, or, worse, your charger dumps what you had left back into the grid.

I can remember my Dad paying $25-$30 for locking gas caps back in the ’70s. It will be a bit more expensive to buy something to prevent the siphoning of your electrons…

waza
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 6:40 pm

Rud
Good Comment.
I assume “Blue city” equals Democrats equals woke policies.
Oslo would be “blue city”??
Here in Australia, tax rules favour vehicles that are used to carry tools.
This is a major reason for tradies owning utes, for work – Can then be used for play.
Additionally, here in Melbourne, Australia – Arguably a “blue city”, the city is quite large. EV are significantly more popular in inner suburbs than outer suburbs.

The whole lifestyle of people is different – Although I’m stereotyping, an inner city Tesla owner is more likely have an overseas holiday (using jet fuel), while an outer suburb truck owner is more likely to tow a boat or caravan to the beach.

James Stagg
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 10, 2022 6:57 pm

The article of EV versus ICE begs the main question, which affects hybrids as well. Where are you going to obtain gasoline or diesel, as the sources dry up? Just like the mandates imposed for the Chinese Virus vaccines, you may not have a choice.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  James Stagg
July 11, 2022 6:44 am

In 1970 fossil fuels provided 80% of the world’s energy. Today they still provide 80% of world energy.

There are around 16 .5m EVs in the world today (IEA figures) compared to over 1.4billion ICEvs.

Fossil fuels will be providing energy and petrol/diesel for a long time to come

DavidC
Reply to  Rud Istvan
July 11, 2022 4:37 pm

When I was a contractor, a 100 miles/day was a typical home to jobsite to jobsite to home route. The delivery driver, who dropped off supplies to multiple projects, would log about 300 to 500 miles per day. So I think a small scale contractor will a few projects per week could get by. Really small scale with multiple sites per day, would be hunting for charging stations for lunch.

markl
July 10, 2022 4:20 pm

Urban cowboys will love it.

Scissor
Reply to  markl
July 10, 2022 5:26 pm

And a pin stripe would make a good pick up line.

mark from the midwest
July 10, 2022 4:46 pm

Been there, done that. Earlier in the year I posted several comments about my girlfriends Tesla. She still likes it, especially the part about 0-60 in 4.2. But after last winter she came to the conclusion that it’s not a great winter car, and living on the 45th parallel means you need to deal with winter. She’s also been dealing with back and forth from Traverse City to Grand Rapids, and it doesn’t have the range for a round-trip without recharging, which can be a big pain when your doing it in one day. She’s, practical, and most likely going with a Rav 4 hybrid. The downside is that it’s unlikely that I’ll ever win an argument again.

Scissor
Reply to  mark from the midwest
July 10, 2022 5:28 pm

Marry her and you can guarantee it.

lee riffee
Reply to  mark from the midwest
July 10, 2022 8:46 pm

Yes, Teslas are basically fair-weather cars. I see a handful in and around the nearby city but they are very much like motorcycles and convertibles. If its cold and rainy (or just cold, as in winter) you seldom see them.

dk_
July 10, 2022 5:17 pm

Nah. COVID experimental genetic therapy “vaccines” weren’t sold, they are imposed by authoritarian corporatists through intimidation and coersion.

Like any luxury fad, electric vehicles were sold by deception, misdirection, and exaggerated capability (otherwise called fraud, or sometimes marketing), just like sustainable, zero-carbon-emmision electricity production.

Last edited 2 months ago by dk_
Speed
July 10, 2022 5:27 pm

Electric Vehicles aren’t for everybody or every trip. For some people and some trips they excel and for others they suck. Same for 747-400s, 15-speed bicycles, motorcycles, and a good pair of walking shoes.

Complaining that a particular EV sucks at one combination of load, road and distance is not helpful and borderline dishonest.

Izaak Walton
Reply to  Speed
July 10, 2022 6:36 pm

I am curious. Did anyone ever make a 15 speed bike?

But otherwise I agree. Am sure you could film plenty of videos showing an EV outperforming an ICE (race up pike’s peak for example). But it is not helpful and borderline dishonest.

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  Izaak Walton
July 10, 2022 8:19 pm

21 speeds is not uncommon.

StevenF
Reply to  Izaak Walton
July 10, 2022 11:07 pm

I am curious. Did anyone ever make a 15 speed bike?”

Yes, of course. 3 chainrings in the front and 5 cogs in the back. A quick search online would have pulled up thousands of hits.

Right-Handed Shark
Reply to  StevenF
July 11, 2022 12:39 am

Walton is stuck in a 1902 time loop when a sturmey-archer 3-speed hub was a huge technological advance over a fixed wheel. This explains all of his posts.

comment image

Speed
Reply to  Right-Handed Shark
July 11, 2022 3:30 am

A lot of machining and assembly to make one of these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmey-Archer

Probably some internal friction as well.

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 4:05 pm

I used to have a three speed. Great for getting around campus -and apparently nobody wanted to steal it.

Ken
Reply to  StevenF
July 11, 2022 4:01 am

Don’t be too shocked, but my 2012 HP Velotechnik Gekko FX pedal tricycle has 81 speeds. There is the standard 3 ring front sprocket and 9 ring rear sprocket giving 27 speeds and then I also have a 3 speed internally geared rear wheel hub that is shifted independently resulting in 81 speeds. Ordered from the factory that way.

Most of the speeds are towards the low end which aids the ability to climb long drawn out hills. Used all the gearing on my 2012 journey from Denver, CO to Pensacola, FL, that came in at 2,600 miles.

StevenF
Reply to  Ken
July 11, 2022 9:13 pm

Wow, I had never heard of that. I am somewhat familiar with that brand (I have friends with MS that ride on trikes) but I wasn’t aware that it has an internally geared rear wheel hub in addition to the front and read sprockets. That is interesting.

Curious, when you are going up a really steep incline (7 – 8% let’s say), how fast are you moving in those really low gears? At least you don’t have to worry about falling when you slow down.

Thanks for sharing that.

bemused
Reply to  StevenF
July 17, 2022 5:28 am

I ride a trike in the hills of Donegal, Ireland. Going up one of the hills that surround the Glen where I live I’m going a bit over 2mph at times. I am 64 and no athelete so take that into account! One good thing about a trike is there is no minimum speed (you can’t fall over after all) as long as you have the gearing and traction. I’ve hit 35mph coming down them, which on those roads is scary as all hell!

Reply to  Izaak Walton
July 11, 2022 2:58 am

I’ve got two. Hard to get less really. With Derailleurs.

H.R.
Reply to  Leo Smith
July 11, 2022 6:59 am

I have a two-speed bike also, Leo; slow and stop. 😉

Speed
Reply to  Izaak Walton
July 11, 2022 3:23 am

Currently the best way to employ EVs is in a “stop-and-go with return to base for charging overnight” application. Think UPS, FedEx, police etc. Also ideal for what was once called a “second car” used for grocery shopping, kids to school and church on Sunday.

I had a job once that involved 90-100 miles a day with nights at home in the garage — a perfect EV application.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 9:55 am

What is the purpose of banning all internal combustion engines?

Speed
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 11:36 am

Don’t know. Right now banning all internal combustion engines would be a dumb thing to do. If batteries get better and charging is ubiquitous (i love that word) more people will buy electric cars because they are better for the job they want done. If they don’t get better they should go the way of the coal-fired steam locomotive and the Pony Express.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 1:29 pm

The Search for the Magic Battery

Speed
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 12, 2022 3:27 am

The history of batteries has been one of slow and steady progress. Readers may find this interesting …

AN OVERVIEW OF MODERN FLASHLIGHT BATTERIEShttps://bestlight.io/blogs/news/98345985-an-overview-of-modern-flashlight-batteries

This has no direct relation to electric cars but is here to show that some things take time.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 4:41 am

Good luck! You’ll need it.

Richard Page
Reply to  Izaak Walton
July 11, 2022 10:17 am

Several car manufacturer’s have built EV’s just to do Pikes Peak. This is one example where an EV has an advantage – a very short duration race that utilises the best of the electric motors where the cars only need enough power for one run. As a long distance vehicle all-electric EV’s are useless.

Speed
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 6:09 am

Re: -10 (may be -20 by the time you read this)

The ignorant haters are strong this morning. But it doesn’t make them right.

It would be helpful if they would comment rather than just clicking on “-“. Best way to change someone’s mind is with words of reason.

Speed
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 11:38 am

And here we go … minus four and not a single comment explaining their dislike. Bold!

Richard Page
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 5:48 pm

Oh my bad, I thought you posted it as a challenge not for serious discussion.

griff
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 7:27 am

Average UK trip length is 29 miles.

Speed
Reply to  griff
July 11, 2022 8:32 am

Perfect!

I notice your comment attracted a “-1” pseudo comment. Doesn’t like short trips?

Richard Page
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 5:50 pm

Or just doesn’t like Griff? Could be either.

ih_fan
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 7:33 am

Complaining that a particular EV sucks at one combination of load, road and distance is not helpful and borderline dishonest.

And yet politicians insist on forcing EVs on everyone, regardless of the combinations of load, road, or distance that we need to travel.

Michael in Dublin
July 10, 2022 5:39 pm

Brilliant Branding.

EV success = Covid vaccine success.

We just have to wait for the EV adverse reaction reports.

Christopher Chantrill
July 10, 2022 6:40 pm

But, many of my liberal neighbors here in North Seattle drive “EVs”. And boy, do they look proud of themselves.

Mind you, the chap across the street that drives a Tesla is CEO of Helion Energy the fusion startup. So he has an excuse.

Duane
July 10, 2022 6:55 pm

Anyone who has towed a travel trailer weighing anywhere near the towing capacity of the vehicle knows that it drastically reduces the range of the vehicle. I used to own a full size 4WD SUV with a gas V-8 engine that produced gas mileage of 13-14 mpg on the highway at around 70 mph. When I pulled a 5,500 pound travel trailer it cut the mileage to 5 mpg. Gas stops were very frequent when towing.

Duh!

Also the post on the ever stupid Breitbart site used a starting range of only 157 miles for the F150 Lightning, obviously far below full charge in order to minimize the resultant mileage towing the trailer. The Lightning has a full charge range, depending upon which battery pack it is equipped with, of 230 miles to 320 miles.

Also, in another purposeful misleading statement, the anticipated range on a EV, just like the anticipated range on an ICE vehicle, assumes that the kind of driving – which determines range – is the same as what has been driven when the battery was last recharged, or when the tank was last filled. So if the truck was previously driven without a trailer, then after a trailer is towed, OF COURSE the trip computer will overestimate the remaining range – whether EV or ICEV.

Simon
Reply to  Duane
July 10, 2022 7:44 pm

And the reviews of the Lightening are …. well… outstanding. It may not be the best choice for dragging a big wide heavy trailer thousand miles, but as a practical everyday work vehicle for a builder, or other worker, it is awesome. Charge it at night take it to the works site. Use the fittings to power your tools(if you don’t have on site power) and back home. All for a fraction of the running cost of the ICE version. As the reviews say, there is a whole lot to like about this new Lightning.

Alan M
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 2:22 am

Charge it at night 

What are you charging it with, Solar 😉

Simon
Reply to  Alan M
July 11, 2022 2:58 am

Nope. I charge my ev. Cost me .12c a kilowatt. So the 70 Kilowatt battery that gives me 400kms at least, costs me $8.40. Damned site cheaper that gas.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 4:08 am

The problem you overlook is that in the UK, for example, 40% of houses have no off street parking.

Nor are the true running costs representative of the ultimate costs as EV’s are not paying for the upkeep of the road they travel on. Approximately 60% of our fuel costs here are Tax, used (and I use that term cautiously) to build and maintain our transport infrastructure.

Suggest to me how we square those intractable problems. The second might seem straightforward, a cost per mile travelled, but there goes our privacy. We are now being tracked by big government every time we step in our EV.

The second one beats me. There are approximately 30 cars on our street and perhaps two lamp posts running on 240v, single phase power. Kindly explain to me how we are to park 15 cars around each lamp post, and then kindly describe to me how digging up every street in the country (or at least 40%) to install upgraded power to the lamp post’s is to be paid for.

Then there is the ever present spectre of range. A trip to Scotland from the SE of England where I live is approximately 450miles with a journey time of around 8 hours.The required ‘pit stop’ to charge would add at least another 2 hours onto the journey. One might cite fast chargers, but they are expensive and only really suitable for upmarket cars like a £60,000 Tesla, twice the price of my brand new family SUV.

The middle class in the UK is already shouldering a 50% tax Tax burden, the highest in history by far.

I have attached a typical street scene for your information. You might be able to propose some solutions from that, but I doubt it.

Street.jpg
Speed
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 6:18 am

Suggest to me how we square those intractable problems.

Change the government in the next election.

Richard Page
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 5:53 pm

Which will accomplish very little except to bring an even more delusional bunch into power – all of the political parties are signed up to the Green madness.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 7:07 am

The UK also has around 300,000 low voltage substations and c 1m feeders with about 450,000 kms of buried cables about 80% of which is built for ‘lighting plus’ (c 1.2kW) loads not an EV load of 7kW nor a heat pump load of 9kW.

To upgrade this system has been estimated to cost in excess of £60 billion and involve digging up most of the non motorway roads in the country.

This site provides an interesting discussion between a member of UK V2G and a doctor of engineering at Southampton University.

https://v2g.co.uk/2021/05/electric-vehicles-as-enery-smart-appliances/

Speed
Reply to  Dave Andrews
July 11, 2022 8:39 am

The big weakness in the electrification of automobiles is the supply of electricity as you point out. It is what comes of having politicians and non-technical and non-engineer people blowing their trumpets in support of electric automobiles. This is another one of those ideas that often start with, “All you need to do is … “

griff
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 7:25 am

In several London boroughs they are rolling out chargers in lamp posts…and that looks like it could do with a few more lights!

ResourceGuy
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 8:10 am

Good info from reality land, thanks

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 4:32 am

BTW.

I can accomplish that journey to Scotland, fully loaded with passengers, and luggage, including a roof box, on a single tank of diesel, much of the time running at 90MPH+ on the motorway, and returning 40MPG.

Kindly point me to an EV costing £30,000 which can even get close to that. In fact, point me to a £60,000 EV that can do it.

Speed
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 6:21 am

EVs are not the answer to all transportation challenges. Not everyone drives fully loaded to Scotland. But some do and for them gasoline or diesel is the answer.

It’s not “all or none” although some insist on arguing that way.

ih_fan
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 7:37 am

It’s not “all or none” although some insist on arguing that way.

Tell that to the politicians that are actively working on banning the sale of gasoline or diesel vehicles.

That certainly sounds like an “all or none” policy.

HotScot
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 8:18 am

I’m happy to agree with that, but our choice is being taken away from us. That’s the problem

We won’t have tho choice to buy a new ICE vehicle as of 2030.

Fine if you live in a city, but I don’t and I do high mileage when I use my car.

griff
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 7:26 am

Hmmm, exceeding the speed limit there…

And I will bet you stop at a service station or two, which will be getting ever more chargers

HotScot
Reply to  griff
July 12, 2022 8:25 am

Hmmm, exceeding the speed limit there…

Catch me!

I’m a former Police pursuit driver, I can run a lot faster than that if necessary.

And membership of that particular ‘club’ has its benefits. Other cops can identify from my driving exactly how well I have been trained and leave me alone.

“…..on a single tank of diesel”

I even stated it, for your benefit, I just didn’t think even you could be stupid enough to miss it!

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 2:14 pm

On the odd occasion you “fully loaded with passengers, and luggage, including a roof box, on a single tank of diesel, much of the time running at 90MPH+ on the motorway, and returning 40MPG.” then yep you got me.

However you could still do this, it would just take you a bit longer in an EV. In my world you would be admirably compensated for the 99% of the time you are buzzing around the local area paying a fraction of the running cost for the energy that moves you forward. I regularly do the 160km round trip to Wellington and it costs me $3.38 (28 kilowatts @ .12c = $3.38 NZ or US $2.07) each time I do it. Kindly point me to an ICE car costing 48,000 UK pounds (Tesla model 3 price) that can do that?

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 8:27 am

Like I said. That will change. Someone has to pay for the roads and pay by Km will be the next tax burden for drivers.

Bang goes your smug expression when you get the bill for that because it will be controlled by your loony Ardern, not oil companies.

Bryan A
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 5:34 am

“.12¢ a kilowatt” doesn’t indicate what charges your EV Though.
.12¢/kW Sounds an awful lot like you’re recharging directly from the grid.
In other words you’re recharging off of a mixture of…
Coal
Gas
Hydro
Nuclear
Biomass
Solar
Wind
Intertie (whatever the intertie source)
Whatever happens to be powering/stabilizing the grid in your area.
The fact that it’s your quoted .12¢/kW definitely let’s out strictly Wind or Solar as a 100% source, at that price there’s definitely a liberal dose of FF in the mix

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Bryan A
July 11, 2022 7:33 am

What Russian Colluuuuusion Simon didn’t tell you—he’s in NZ where they have lots of low-cost hydro electricity.

Simon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 2:20 pm

Are you jealous Monte? Go on say it….

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 6:32 pm

Small country, lotsa hydro—still have to change out the gas tank.

Mike Lowe
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 2:23 pm

And a socialist government led by a Marxist, who will be mandating EVs for all. Until she is ejected at the next election, with thousands of stranded EV drivers realising their mistake.

Simon
Reply to  Mike Lowe
July 11, 2022 2:39 pm

She may or may not be ejected, (my guess is she will) but the new guy is concerned about climate change too. He may cut some of the benefits/incentives, but there wont be wholesale changes.
From a recent article about him…
“Speaking at the Beehive in Wellington, Luxon made it clear lowering emissions was a major priority for his party and took a swing at the Labour Government’s record.
“It’s not good enough saying you’re going to lower greenhouse gas emissions but not doing it,” he said on Tuesday. Meanwhile, farmers were not villains, he said.”
And you really need to do some research on what “Marxism” actually is. Here I’ll help you…
Marxism is a social, political, and economic philosophy named after Karl Marx. It examines the effect of capitalism on labor, productivity, and economic development and argues for a worker revolution to overturn capitalism in favor of communism.”

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 8:29 am

Look around you.

The climate cabal are being routed around the world.

Simon
Reply to  Bryan A
July 11, 2022 2:19 pm

NZ is nearly 80% renewable (Hydro, Wind, geo thermal) so your argument is redundant here. I charge at night and get a night rate for the EV. But get this, when I put the extra solar from my roof back in to the grid during the day, the company pays me .17c. What is that sound you ask??? it is the sound of me (and the planet) winning, winning, winning. And Trump is wrong(he usually is), you never get sick of winning.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 8:29 am

Wind and solar are not renewable.

Don’t be so Simple Simon.

Speed
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 6:15 am

Only a “-9” right now. Come on haters — just one more to “-10”. You can do it!

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 7:43 am

Define “hater”.

Speed
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 8:51 am

Carlo, Monte asked me to define, “hater.”

person who says or writes unpleasant things about someone or criticizes their achievementsespecially on the internet:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hater

One who practices hatred. Hatred is an angry or resentful emotional response to certain people or ideas. Hatred is often associated with feelings of anger, disgust and a disposition towards the source of hostility . As an emotion, hatred can be short-lived or long-lasting. It can be of low intensity – ‘I hate broccoli’ – or high intensity: ‘I hate the whole world’.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatred

The missing words are, “rational” and “reasoned.”

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 9:58 am

In other words, anyone who disagrees with your allegedly green politics.

And how do you discern the inner thoughts and feelings of anyone who has the gall to downvote you?

Magic Eight Ball? Tarot cards?

Speed
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 11:44 am

Carlo, Monte …
You need to brush up your reading skills a little. Lets start with pointing to my “allegedly green politics.”

  1. Who alleged?
  2. What green politics?
Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 1:31 pm

Funny thing, you match your own definition of “hater”.

And you avoided answering how you know the thoughts of other people.

HotScot
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 8:31 am

When you act like a Dick, telling you that you’re a Dick isn’t hatred, it’s called honesty.

Mr.
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 12:25 pm

Definition of “unpleasant” from your link –
not attractive or enjoyable or easy to like:

So does that mean if a person doesn’t get “likes” for their utterances, they must be being beset by an audience of “haters”?

Seems to me there is a growing sub-set of humanity that has evolved into “snowflakes”

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Mr.
July 12, 2022 2:16 pm

“Karens” or “Kens” (depending goofy woke pronoun preference).

StandupPhilosopher
Reply to  Duane
July 10, 2022 8:08 pm

If you watch TFL’s video, it was fully charged. 160 miles is what it was supposed to get towing, it only managed 80.

Simon
Reply to  StandupPhilosopher
July 10, 2022 9:29 pm

If you watch TFL’s video, it was fully charged. 160 miles is what it was supposed to get towing, it only managed 80.”
Yes we know. EV’s are not the vehicle to get to tow long distances. That may or may not change. But they do have other significant advantages of ICE cars.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 4:25 am

But they do have other significant advantages of ICE cars.

No they don’t. The tyre and brake wear from dragging around a large battery 24/7/365 is shocking.

Then there’s the particulates generated by all that wear.

Californians and Australians are already being asked not to charge their EV’s at peak times because the stress on the electricity infrastructure is too much.

What’s the percentage of EV’s on their roads. I would hazard a guess it’s in the low single digits.

So what do we do? Manage our lives around our transportation restrictions?

Sorry, but cars vans and trucks enhance our daily lives and function around humanities needs. They are not a burden to manage our lives around.

Then there’s the humanitarian and environmental cost’s of producing all the materials required to make just the batteries. Are you proud to be driving a car using substantial amounts of Cobalt, mined in the Congo, by children?

Are you proud to have vast tracts of land mined for the other mineral required? To electrify every car just in the UK would require, in some cases, five times the known minerals in the world, much of which is already owned by China.

It’s taken mankind well over 100 years to develop the build process for ICE vehicles which is cheap, efficient and relatively clean, and continuing to get better and cleaner.

But we are expected to rip all that up and be forced to drive vehicles our governments are imposing on us over the next 20 years.

Just what did happen to personal choice?

Speed
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 6:24 am

“So what do we do? Manage our lives around our transportation restrictions?”

We do already. If I want to get to a meeting in a city 800 miles away I use the scheduled airlines. I could drive but that would take longer. Time is money.


Right-Handed Shark
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 11:02 am

How do you get to the airport? Flying unicorn?

Speed
Reply to  Right-Handed Shark
July 11, 2022 11:50 am

I would get to the airport by driving or Uber or riding with a colleague. That’s part of managing my life around transportation available based on whatever criteria are important to me.

ih_fan
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 7:40 am

I could drive but that would take longer. Time is money.

Such as the time spent waiting for an EV to recharge?

Dave Andrews
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 7:13 am

Yep, a typical EV requires SIX times as many minerals to build as an ICEV That’s one reason why the price of lithium rocketed by almost 750% between Jan 2021 and March 2022. (IEA figures). They also foresee potential worldwide shortages of lithium and cobalt by 2025.

Speed
Reply to  Dave Andrews
July 11, 2022 9:00 am

“Yep, a typical EV requires SIX times as many minerals to build as an ICEV”

It’s not the number of minerals (“SIX times as many minerals”) but the cost and average life (are they consumables or part of the vehicle structure) of the minerals. Please clarify with names and mass of the minerals involved in your comparison.

It is likely that Ford’s Model T required more minerals (however measured) than the horses it replaced. Not to mention the petroleum products. And rubber. And we know how that worked out.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 7:59 am

That is from the IEA Report ‘The Role of Critical Minerals in Clean Energy Transitions’ published in May 2021. Look it up!

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 2:43 pm

OK I read to here…
“No they don’t. The tyre and brake wear from dragging around a large battery 24/7/365 is shocking.”
Oh dear. Why do you not at least show some understanding before writing. EV owners barely use the brakes. EV’s have something called regen-braking. The electric motors do the work not the brakes.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 8:44 am

So no wear on the electric motors then?

Gosh, I must get me some of this magical thinking perpetual motion.

You get nothing for nothing – if you’re braking at all you have wasted all the energy used to get you up to that speed in the first place.

Go and do some engineering studies……

Volvo produced a report examining the CO2 comparisons between two identical models, one ICE, the other EV.

The point at which the EV repaid its CO2 cost over the ICE is 90,000 miles.

That’s nine years of ownership for the average UK owner who drives around 10,000 miles a year.

The convention for a new car buyer in the UK is to change the car every three years, before having to having it MOT tested for the first time.

That’s three ICE cars in that time, with improving emissions every change, and no issues with the inherent unreliability of EV’s, as reported on the JDPower index.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
July 12, 2022 1:14 pm

Go and do some engineering studies……”
Seriously? Mr Hotscot, ignorance is not a virtue.Go and drive an EV then you can lecture me. I hardly touch the brakes when I drive my car.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 15, 2022 5:28 pm

Anecdote’s don’t confound engineering principles, dope!

Bryan A
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 5:39 am

Yep they can give you that “Warm Toasty Feeling” when you’re…
Refueling
Driving
Parked
SPONTANEOUSLY
Unfortunately, over time, your EV Fuel Tank gets smaller and smaller though.

In 1998, my Dodge Durango came with a 22 gallon fuel tank that held 22.3 gallons of gasoline.
Today my Dodge Durango can store 22.3 gallons of gas and still travel the same distance it did 24 years ago.

Last edited 2 months ago by Bryan A
Simon
Reply to  Bryan A
July 11, 2022 3:13 pm

You are right. Batteries degrade. But the upside is the motors go forever(unlike ICE cars) and there is almost no maintenance. And I am hoping to get 15 years out of my Tesla batteries, I know I will get at least 10. I am banking on battery tech being up to the task by that time and I will be able to exchange them with superior longer lasting more eco friendly ones. But who knows…..

DavidC
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 4:55 pm

As someone who has worked with electric motors for a long time, they need regular maintenance. And if repeatedly stressed under high load conditions, the rotors will need to be periodically rewound or the motor replaced. Regenerative breaking induces an electric field back into the motor, which with slippage and a collapsing EMF, slows the vehicle. Just like conventional braking, hard braking from high speeds will cause faster wearing on the rotors. Not by friction but by induced current heating the windings. Unlike conventional braking, the parts being damaged are the same that are used to provide momentum.

Simon
Reply to  DavidC
July 11, 2022 7:12 pm

I’m expecting at least a million miles. I’ll let you know how I get on.

ih_fan
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 7:42 am

I’m expecting at least a million miles.

No chance of that happening.

Are you expecting a ready source of replacement parts (circuit boards, bearings, etc) twenty or thirty years from now?

Simon
Reply to  ih_fan
July 12, 2022 1:15 pm

Are you expecting a ready source of replacement parts (circuit boards, bearings, etc) twenty or thirty years from now?”
I’l let you know.

ih_fan
Reply to  Simon
July 13, 2022 7:12 am

I’l let you know.

Ask collectors/restorers of classic cars – many critical electronic components are no longer available new, and diagnostic systems are very difficult to come by when the dealerships stop supporting the vehicle.

So – no need to wait. Just check out a few forums for classic cars and you’ll see what you’re in for in twenty years or so from now.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 8:46 am

LaLa land.

You have been scammed by a used car salesman.

What a sucker.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
July 12, 2022 1:15 pm

You have been scammed by a used car salesman.”
Ummm…. it was new and so far I’m feeling pretty happy.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 8:45 am

But the upside is the motors go forever

Absolute rubbish. What planet are you from?

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
July 12, 2022 1:16 pm

Relative to an ICE car they go forever….

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 15, 2022 5:31 pm

Define that, precisely.

Engineering principles; X miles, Y wear.

It’s called friction dummy……….

It’s the single most reliable engineering principle after gravity.

hiskorr
Reply to  Duane
July 10, 2022 8:23 pm

Did you not watch the video? It gave a full-charge, no-load range of about 280 miles that dropped to 160 when the trailer was calc’d in. Actual range to flat charge was 90 miles. And the ICE dropped from about 12 to 7 mpg, Please read the post before commenting.

Reply to  Duane
July 10, 2022 11:39 pm

“the post on the ever stupid Breitbart site used a starting range of only 157 miles for the F150 Lightning,”

The ever-stupid Duane should realize the base $40,000 Lightening
has a claimed range of 230 miles. To preserve expensive batteries,
they should not be charged over 90%, or be allowed to fall below 10% charge. Adjusting the 230-mile range for those battery preservation goals, and the resulting range is 80% of 239, or 184 miles.
And that’s with no load, no use of AC and no use of the heater.
The actual useful range is always lower than the advertised range.

Speed
Reply to  Richard Greene
July 11, 2022 11:52 am

“The actual useful range is always lower than the advertised range.”

Just like cars that burn gasoline.


Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 12:46 pm

Baloney
The ICE car’s range is based on a full tank of gasoline and the fuel economy rating is much closer to reality than an EV battery mileage range. I have had 27 years experience working in product development of an auto manufacturer.

HotScot
Reply to  Speed
July 12, 2022 8:49 am

I can achieve every mileage claim Volkswagen makes for my Diesel Tiguan.

Speed
Reply to  Duane
July 11, 2022 6:14 am

Wow! Another “-10”. They’re strong this morning. Strong but without words, not convincing.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Speed
July 11, 2022 1:33 pm

Keep up the whining, you can get more!

rah
July 10, 2022 9:02 pm

This old trucker needs a beater pickup around to do various things. My old GMC 2500 has rusted to the point where I will have to put it to pasture pretty soon. I will be buying a 1994 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 10 cylinder engine in it that my neighbor has. Standard cab and bed length.

It will cost me $3,000 a brake job, and the cost of a new dashboard, which is cracked. Everything, including A/C still works and the interior is in excellent condition except the cracked dash. The exterior has a couple small dings and some faded paint but otherwise is in great shape, as is the frame.

That truck has 167,000 miles on it. The body and frame shows virtually no rust. It was used to tow a 6,000 lb fifth wheel trailer. And it still runs like a top. I drove it to Indianapolis and back a couple weeks ago.

Should be the last pickup this 67 y/o man ever needs. To be frank, I wouldn’t have any concern taking it across country if I needed to. Drives, and for a 2500 rides great!

HotScot
July 10, 2022 9:12 pm

I will go back to building ICE cars from scrap, just like I did in the 1970’s when I couldn’t afford a new car before I’ll buy one of these disgustingly wasteful EV’s.

I’ll run the damn thing on home brewed hooch if needs be.

I have had it with the green crap, the WOKE crap and the kindness to criminals crap.

I was physically assaulted in a supermarket by a guy a few months ago. The supermarket was equipped with CCTV which recorded everything. I didn’t retaliate as I knew there was CCTV.

The guy is still walking the streets.

Today my daughter was scammed of of tens of thousands of pounds of her grandparents inheritance. Stupid that she fell for it, but she shouldn’t need to be wary.

Our law enforcement will do nothing. The money was transferred to an HSBC bank account. Someone set that account up and is traceable. She has the landline phone number of the perpetrator on her phone. Someone registered that number and is traceable.

If neither of these are possible, it’s the banking systems fault she was scammed because they allowed someone with no verifiable address and ID to set up a bank account and register a phone number.

The banking system failed in their single most basic duty to keep my daughters money secure.

Someone knows who these people are.

I won’t stop until I find this guy and make him suffer. Jail time isn’t good enough for him, I’ll dispense my own justice.

As with the global scam perpetrated on the public with climate change, EV’s, organic foods, veganism etc. we are now faced with individual responsibility to enforce our own regulations. Sadly, it’s a far less fearful proposition than relying on our corrupt governments and ineffectual justice systems to protect us.

The incarceration of Jan 6th protestors is all the evidence required of our distorted western justice. If there was one single event that should bring the entire west out onto the streets, it’s that single betrayal of out faith in justice.

Not one single government official has been marched off to jail, despite the overt dishonesty and culpable criminality of Boris Johnson, Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi etc.

Not one of them ever will because they cower behind their executive privilege.

That single, most destructive, ‘honourable’ tradition needs to end and our politicians need to be judged, and held directly responsible, for their actions.

Every businessman in the country is directly responsible for their behaviour when often employing tens of thousands of people. Why are government officials protected from prosecution for their irresponsible behaviour when businessmen answer to the law, established by government officials who are not held to the same standard?

Sorry folks, personal rant, but I have had enough!

I’ll say one more thing though. The assailant I referred to earlier was in his early 40’s, I’m 65 and an ex cop. His attack was pathetic, so I held back knowing we were on CCTV. I pushed him out the shop. The police have done nothing, zilch, nada.

However, I was momentarily energised. I felt like a 20 year old, that adrenaline rush never leaves you, nor does engrained training. When I see him again, and I will, I will dispense my own justice and make him pay for the £250 pair of eye glasses he destroyed.

I just feel terribly sad it’s come to this, but I no longer have faith in the institution I represented to keep my community safe.

Michael in Dublin
Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 2:18 am

Justice means that a rich man who steals $10 000 will not get a lesser sentence because he can afford some smart lawyer than the poor man who steals the same amount.

Similarly, justice means that a politician or reporter should get the same sentence as an ordinary citizen for slander.

Finally, justice means that politicians and activists should get the same sentence for their fraudulent climate alarm exploitation and use of of public funds (tax) as those who defraud the public by ponzi schemes. That would be climate justice in my book!

Last edited 2 months ago by Michael in Dublin
Simon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 3:20 pm

I just want to be clear. Do you still believe the Jan 6 terrorist attack in Washington was not done by Trump supporters?

R_G
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 8:17 pm

What are you taking about? What terrorist attack?

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Simon
July 11, 2022 8:41 pm

Remember CTCL? You jumped up and down how it was a hoax also.

Figured out the chemical formula for bleach yet?

Simon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 11:14 pm

Answer the question. Do you think the attack on Jan 6 was by Trump supporters?

Simon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 11, 2022 11:23 pm

Yep, a domestic terrorist attack. An attempt to subvert the democratic process by an armed group. The fact that they were a bunch of clowns, following a bigger clown, doesn’t change what they were trying to do.

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 8:55 am

Armed with what?

No one shot back when an innocent, unarmed Vet was gunned down by a cop who has yet to be tried for her murder.

You don’t conduct an insurrection in the middle of the day, with no weapons, stripped to the waist, dressed in a buffalo hat.

Don’t be such a child.

Simon
Reply to  HotScot
July 12, 2022 1:17 pm

This crowd did. That’s what you get when you follow Twump…

HotScot
Reply to  Simon
July 15, 2022 5:35 pm

Duh?

An “Insurrection” with no weapons, scant violence, tourist behaviour in the Capitol building, and AOC fearing for her life when she wasn’t even in the building?

Please. I have seen more violent Cub Scout meetings.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 2:21 pm

Who are Ray Epps and John Sullivan?

The people breaking windows and property at the capitol were Democrat thugs—BLM and antifa wearing MAGA costumes.

Guess you didn’t look at the link, either.

The real insurrection happened on Nov. 3 2020.

Still an idiot.

ih_fan
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 7:44 am

Jan 6 terrorist attack in Washington

There was no terrorist attack in Washington on January 6th.

Michael in Dublin
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 9:46 am

I have twice narrowly escaped terrorist bombings in two different cities in different countries. Many were killed or horrifically injured. By calling the events of Jan 6 a terrorist attack you are devaluing and distorting the word “terrorist.” I find this despicable.

Simon
Reply to  Michael in Dublin
July 12, 2022 1:18 pm

So what do you call a mob attacking the seat of government trying to subvert democracy?
” I find this despicable.”
So did most thinking people in the US and around the world who were rightly horrified by what they saw.

Last edited 2 months ago by Simon
Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Simon
July 12, 2022 2:22 pm

Do you know who antifa is, silly simon?

Simon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 12, 2022 5:48 pm

I know only fools think antifa had anything to do with Jan 6. Hope you have been listening to todays testimony. Trump told by all around him he lost. Still the man boy refused to concede.

Simon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
July 12, 2022 5:49 pm

If I want fiction I’ll read Treasure Island.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Simon
July 13, 2022 12:54 pm

You’re a watermelon idiot with a closed mind.

TDS is never a pretty sight.

ih_fan
Reply to  Simon
July 13, 2022 7:15 am

So did most thinking people in the US and around the world who were rightly horrified by what they saw.

I saw unarmed protesters being shot by police. That certainly classifies as being “horrific”.

Reply to  HotScot
July 11, 2022 12:52 pm

 “I didn’t retaliate as I knew there was CCTV.”

Next time you will !

Any more details on what caused someone to go berserk?
Did you tell him global warming was a hoax?

HotScot
Reply to  Richard Greene
July 12, 2022 9:00 am

Any more details on what caused someone to go berserk?

Yea, I wasn’t prepared to be intimidated by scum bag who thought he could verbally abuse me.

You know the type, left wing wokeist, complete with man bun, who thinks the world owes him a living.

He thought squirting a bottle of water over me wasn’t assault, until I smashed him in the face with the four cans of beer I had in each hand and threw the fu*k*r out the shop.