The Day the Earth Fell Over

Guest “Klaatu barada nikto” by David Middleton

My apologies to Robert Wise, Edmund H. North, Harry Bates, Michael Rennie and the guy who played Gort in the 1951 classic, The Day the Earth Stood Still… For some reason, this article made me think of the movie (the 1951 version, not the dreadful Keanu Reeves remake).

NATURE
Earth Tipped on Its Side 84 Million Years Ago, New Evidence Suggests
DAVID NIELD 20 OCTOBER 2021

We know that true polar wander (TPW) can occasionally tilt whole planets and moons relative to their axes, but it’s not entirely clear just how often this has happened to Earth.

Now a new study presents evidence of one such tilting event that occurred around 84 million years ago – when dinosaurs still walked the Earth.

[…]

Science Alert… (Be alert! We need more lerts!)

Good fracking grief! There is no evidence that “Earth tipped on its side 84 million years ago.” The Science Lert is a “tech journalist” with a BA in English. So, that might be how he misunderstood what the “new evidence” suggested.

A Late Cretaceous true polar wander oscillation
Ross N. Mitchell, Christopher J. Thissen, David A. D. Evans, Sarah P. Slotznick, Rodolfo Coccioni, Toshitsugu Yamazaki & Joseph L. Kirschvink
Nature Communications volume 12, Article number: 3629 (2021)

Abstract
True polar wander (TPW), or planetary reorientation, is well documented for other planets and moons and for Earth at present day with satellites, but testing its prevalence in Earth’s past is complicated by simultaneous motions due to plate tectonics. Debate has surrounded the existence of Late Cretaceous TPW ca. 84 million years ago (Ma). Classic palaeomagnetic data from the Scaglia Rossa limestone of Italy are the primary argument against the existence of ca. 84 Ma TPW. Here we present a new high-resolution palaeomagnetic record from two overlapping stratigraphic sections in Italy that provides evidence for a ~12° TPW oscillation from 86 to 78 Ma. This observation represents the most recent large-scale TPW documented and challenges the notion that the spin axis has been largely stable over the past 100 million years.

[…]

Mitchell et al,. 2021

The full text of the paper is available and well-worth reading.

True Polar Wander is a real thing and probably occurs at an average rate of 1°/Ma (Andrews, 1985). Mitchell et al., 2021 have found “evidence for a ~12° TPW oscillation from 86 to 78 Ma”… 12° over 8 million years is about 1.5°/Ma.

Figure 3 from Mitchell et al., 2021. “Reconstruction at 80 Ma, centered at 10°E palaeolongitude, showing globally averaged palaeopoles72 (green) exhibiting oscillations interpreted as earlier Mesozoic TPW events22. Italy and its new poles (yellow) reconstructed using Euler parameters (4.0°N, 32.6°W, 21.8°CW) in a global plate model with simplified Mediterranean motions guided by ref. 71. All Italian poles are from Apiro except 85 and 84 Ma from Furlo that fill the gap at Apiro (Supplementary Fig. 2). Error ellipses are projections of cones of 95% confidence interval. Present-day TPW axis (minimum moment of inertia, Imin) at 0°N, 10°E and orthogonal plane of TPW in red425. Note consistency of TPW longitude in all datasets. Supplementary Data 3 for palaeopoles.”

12° is just 78° shy of Earth tipping on its side. Mr. Nield’s headline is…

True Polar Wander: Geology vs Bad Science Fiction

It’s possible that True Polar Wander, deepened the Cenozoic ice age about 3 Ma (Woodworth & Gordon, 2018). There is even evidence of a couple of TPW episodes of >50° shifts during the Neoproterozoic Era (Maloof et al., 2006). However, there’s no evidence that Earth has tipped on its side at any point in the past 600 Ma or so. Nor is there any evidence of sudden, catastrophic events associated with TPW.

Actual geological evidence for TPW does not support the cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis, or any other Edgar Cayce/Immanuel Velikovsky/Charles Hapgood nonsense.

References

Andrews, J. A. (1985), True polar wander: An analysis of Cenozoic and Mesozoic paleomagnetic poles, J. Geophys. Res., 90( B9), 7737– 7750, doi:10.1029/JB090iB09p07737.

Maloof, Adam C., Galen P. Halverson, Joseph L. Kirschvink, Daniel P. Schrag, Benjamin P. Weiss, Paul F. Hoffman; Combined paleomagnetic, isotopic, and stratigraphic evidence for true polar wander from the Neoproterozoic Akademikerbreen Group, Svalbard, Norway. GSA Bulletin 2006;; 118 (9-10): 1099–1124. doi: https://doi.org/10.1130/B25892.1

Mitchell, R.N., Thissen, C.J., Evans, D.A.D. et al. A Late Cretaceous true polar wander oscillation. Nat Commun 12, 3629 (2021). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-021-23803-8

Woodworth, D., & Gordon, R. G. (2018). Paleolatitude of the Hawaiian hot spot since 48 Ma: Evidence for a mid-Cenozoic true polar stillstand followed by late Cenozoic true polar wander coincident with Northern Hemisphere glaciation. Geophysical Research Letters, 45, 11,632– 11,640. https://doi.org/10.1029/2018GL080787

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Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 27, 2021 6:04 pm

Where does all the angular momentum come from to casue a TPW?

Barry Moore
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 27, 2021 6:13 pm

Carbon dioxide of course

Duane
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 27, 2021 6:34 pm

That was my question.

One thing I long wondered about is that with the earth’s unevenly distributed land mass, how does that eccentricity in rotational forces and momentum affect the rotation of the planet? Even if the effect of unevenly distributed land mass is relatively small compared to the overall rotational or angular momentum, it cannot be zero, and over geological timescales the effect could be significant.

I would imagine that someone has run models on it, but I have never heard of one.

Duane
Reply to  Duane
October 27, 2021 6:39 pm

For example, if even a tiny portion of a propeller or rotor of an aircraft departs, it creates such a massive rotational imbalance that the aircraft literally flies apart mid air. Obviously the effect on a prop or rotor spinning at hundreds to thousands of rpm is much more pronounced than a planet spinning at a mere 1 rpd (rotations per day), but again, over very long timescales the effect of an imbalance on a rotating sphere has to be significant.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Duane
October 27, 2021 8:01 pm

Obviously the effect on a prop or rotor spinning at hundreds to thousands of rpm is much more pronounced than a planet spinning at a mere 1 rpd (rotations per day),

I think you’ll find that momentum is key here. With a significant fraction of the Earth moving at over 1,000 mph, there’s a lot of momentum built up. Having said that, it’s so large that even massive amounts of material, like Antarctica, are irrelevant.

If the Earth was the size of a billiard ball, it would be smoother, and very, very slightly misted.

Ron Long
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 27, 2021 6:50 pm

I would think that there might be angular momentum irregularities associated with sloshing in the molten core. The way to test an Easter egg, given to you by “friends”, who encourage you to crack it open and peel it, to see whether it is hard-boiled or raw, is to spin the egg on a flat surface. The hard-boiled egg spins freely, while the raw egg cannot make one revolution. This might well apply to the molten core sloshing around, although I can’t imagine testing that.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Ron Long
October 27, 2021 8:03 pm

This might well apply to the molten core sloshing around, although I can’t imagine testing that.

We already are testing it. The fact that this happens is the reason that we have a magnetic field that protects us from the Sun’s radiation.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 27, 2021 8:27 pm

There are a whole lot of very observant people around here. Good catch. Every day is a life lesson or a welcome refresher course.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 30, 2021 10:00 am

Zig Zag Wanderer and Ron Long,

Since there is no possible gaseous ullage volume at the pressure associated with the mantle-core interface (about 1.3 million times atmospheric pressure, or 136 gigapascal, well above the critical pressure of any gas molecule), there cannot possibly be any “sloshing” in Earth’s molten core.

The sloshing of an unboiled egg is due to the presence of a small air bubble (nature’s way of preventing the fluids internal to the shell from busting the rigid but fragile shell due to thermal expansion of the inside fluid) and the density difference between the yolk and the “white”, with their attendant differences in viscosity. This is NOT similar to Earth’s core.

jan
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
November 4, 2021 10:15 pm

Dear zig zag
is an egg not “sloshing” because a denser yoke is “sloshing” in a thinner egg white ? so not in air ?

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 28, 2021 3:16 am

Taken away by the fairies.

rbabcock
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 28, 2021 4:24 am

Could it be the Earth’s crust became unattached from the mantle? The vast majority of the Earth’s mass would continue to rotate but the crust could slow down and wonder for a bit until it became reattached. A micro nova from our Sun could produce the energy to cause it to happen.

MarkW
Reply to  rbabcock
October 28, 2021 7:40 am

Could it be the Earth’s crust became unattached from the mantle?

Physically impossible.

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Reply to  rbabcock
October 28, 2021 9:59 am

rbabcock

You are on the correct path and MarkW is off.

The lithosphere is not mechanically attached to the mantle in the sense of anything rigid. That is why there are deep and continuous convection currents of molten rock all over the show.

In answer to some of the speculations above, the turning of the lithosphere over the mantle, especially a few degrees, is relatively easy to accomplish. A high latitude, high speed impact object it thought to have caused a 0.5 degree repositioning of the lithosphere in about 3200 BC which cause dramatic changes especially detectable in the N Hemisphere.

But there are other possible causes. One is the idea of the ice buildup at the poles creating an instability that can initiate a rotation (not really a “flip”) of a few degrees. One has been forecast in the near future but such a thing is unprovable when the mechanism is poorly understood. I hear that Einstein was a believer in the ice accumulation theory. The instability in the current position of the rotation axis is about currently about 10 ft. That is left over from the 3200 BC repositioning.

Very interestingly, the depth of the ocean changes quite a bit when the Earth repositions the lithosphere (the axis doesn’t change much at all though it wobbles like a top for some time). If the surface moves, say half a degree, the depth of the ocean at 45 degrees latitude changes immediately by 1000 ft. It doesn’t change at all at the poles or the equator save a millimeter or two. The maximum effect is at 45 degrees.

It is possible that another small displacement occurred in 1650 BC. The disturbance in 3200 BC was so great in the UK that, based on evidence available, farming ceased, and the species mix of the region gradually changed to colder and hardier varieties. The main consequences of a movement are the sloshing of the oceans against the land, the emergence and submergence of land, and changes to the flow of water through the Arctic Ocean basin. The last point means great changes to the N H weather which is strongly affected by flow/not-flow of heat to that region.

Some readers may be familiar with an ancient story in which the sun set, rose again, and then set a second time “…and the Earth reeled as a drunkard”. That may be a historical record. That is exactly what would happen during such an evert. Maybe the magnetic field turn with it, hiding the event(s) which may be more common than is currently imagined.

Reply to  Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
October 28, 2021 10:47 am

Jericho?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
October 28, 2021 11:49 am

There is a difference between becoming “detached,” and maintaining contact as a result of gravity, with a very viscous coupling between the crust and mantle. Additionally, where the roots of the crust are very deep, such as under major mountain ranges, there is an obstructing barrier that experiences compressive forces, not just shearing.

MarkW
Reply to  Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
October 28, 2021 4:26 pm

Nonsense on stilts.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
October 30, 2021 10:46 am

Since the average rate of increase in pressure with depth through Earth’s surface (due to increasing rock overburden) to 1200 km depth is about 420 bars/km, or 9700 psi/mile, there is no possible way for Earth’s crust to become detached from the (upper) mantle.

It IS that simple.

Sebastian Magee
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 28, 2021 8:54 am

I would think that the angular momentum of the core and mantle are the most likely candidates. This transfer of momentum between layers of the Earth is what keeps the magnetic field going.

Tom Halla
October 27, 2021 6:17 pm

That sort of shift would be straight Velikovsky.

RicDre
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 27, 2021 7:39 pm

Whenever I think of Velikovsky, I am always reminded of the quote below from Carl Sagan’s book COSMOS:

The worse aspect of the Velikovsky affair is not that his hypotheses were wrong or in contradiction to firmly established facts, but that some who called themselves scientists attempted to suppress Velikovksy’s works. Science is generated by and devoted to free enquiry: the idea that any hypothesis, no matter how strange, deserves to be considered on its merits.

Scientists these days seem to have forgotten this.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 8:29 pm

One must wonder where Sagan would stand on the present constant gas lighting of skeptics and contrarians of the “consensus”.

RicDre
Reply to  Rory Forbes
October 27, 2021 9:17 pm

One must wonder where Sagan would stand on the present constant gas lighting of skeptics and contrarians of the ‘consensus’.

I would like to think Dr. Sagan would oppose it. He did have the integrity to admit he had been wrong when his prediction that the burning oil wells after the Gulf Wells would cause “Nuclear Winter” failed to happen.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 10:52 pm

Good catch on the oil well fires. It seems there have been numerous ‘Earth scientists’ who have underestimated our planet’s resilience and her remarkable self healing capability.

Desert Bob
Reply to  RicDre
October 28, 2021 9:34 am

“He did have the integrity to admit he had been wrong when his prediction that the burning oil wells after the Gulf Wells would cause “Nuclear Winter” failed to happen.”

Is that true? I seem to remember Sagan on the PBS News Hour denying that he’d ever predicted such a thing. It was his last appearance on the News Hour as far as I know.

RicDre
Reply to  Desert Bob
October 28, 2021 1:48 pm

Yes it’s true. In his book the Demon Haunted World he said:

For myself, I’ve tended in past books to recount some of the occasions when I’ve been right. Let me here mention a few of the cases where I’ve been wrong: … Just before Iraq torched the Kuwaiti oil wells in January 1991, I warned that so much smoke might get so high as to disrupt agriculture in much of South Asia; as events transpired, it was pitch black at noon and the temperatures dropped 4-6°C over the Persian Gulf, but not much smoke reached stratospheric altitudes and Asia was spared. I did not sufficiently stress the uncertainty of the calculations. 

Last edited 1 month ago by RicDre
Philip Rose
Reply to  RicDre
October 28, 2021 6:51 am

I wonder how Sagan would have viewed climate change?

dk_
October 27, 2021 6:29 pm

According to the interwebs, a tall guy named Lock Martin dressed up as Gort for the ’51 version. But the critical comment is redundant: Keanu Reeves is synonymous with dreadful.

Seems to me that we’ve heard this cataclysmic tilt theory before — taking two different “readings” from the “same” rock formation, which happened to contain multiple layers of basalt that were added eons apart, seems a simple mistake to make — for journalists and documentary script writers.

Last edited 1 month ago by dk_
Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  David Middleton
October 27, 2021 7:19 pm

And, Bill and Ted’s Great Adventure is a hoot!

I note you do not claim that it’s good… so if I’m understanding you correctly, it’s so bad it’s funny? BTW, I thought it was Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  David Middleton
October 27, 2021 8:19 pm

Duke Kaboom is a classic Keanu character

Alan the Brit
Reply to  dk_
October 28, 2021 12:05 am

I understand that he was very, very tall, but had a very light frame, hence why he had to have “strings” to reinforce his arms when picking up & carrying the heroin!!! Still, a great movie nonetheless!!! Sadly, many modern Sci-Fi movies are all too predictable & have to slip global warming into the plot somewhere, reminding me of those movies of the 50s & 60s playing on the nuclear holocaust theme!!! The disaster mongers are probably already lining up a new scary story for when the it’s all mankind’s fault (read free-enterprise capitalism) meme starts to fade away, as it will when all the disasters that have been predicted don’t manifest themselves, well, I’m sure there will be a few more deliberately started fires around to keep the “Earth is burning” propaganda running!!! It has all gone quite since the suggestions that wild fires in Australia & California were started deliberately, can anyone shed a light here?

Abolition Man
Reply to  Alan the Brit
October 28, 2021 1:14 am

Alan,
Are you saying he was an illegal alien drug mule, or was that the heroine you were referring to!?
A doubly belated 140th anniversary of the Gunfight by Fly’s Boardinghouse to David and all!

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Abolition Man
October 28, 2021 11:53 am

Spelling does matter!

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  Abolition Man
October 28, 2021 4:24 pm

G’day Abolition Man,

A doubly belated 140th anniversary of the Gunfight by Fly’s Boardinghouse to David and all!

Thanks for the mention – I’m one of the “all”.

RicDre
October 27, 2021 6:33 pm

Ah, The Day the Earth Stood Still, along with Forbidden Planet, two of my favorite scifi movies from the 1950’s. I think I still have my tee shirt around somewhere that has a picture of Gort with the words “Klaatu barada nikto” under the picture. Patricia Neal, Hugh Marlowe and Sam Jaffe were also in the movie. And Lock Martin played Gort.

Last edited 1 month ago by RicDre
Mike
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 6:42 pm

I first saw that movie when I was maybe 10. Scared the bejesus out of me. This and the original Journey to the center of the Earth were my favorites until I discovered T&A.

RicDre
Reply to  Mike
October 27, 2021 6:56 pm

I first saw The Day The Earth Stood Still on NBC’s Saturday Night Movie in 1962; its not as scary on a small black-and-white TV of that era, and since the move was shot in black-and-white we didn’t feel bad about not having a color TV.

TEWS_Pilot
Reply to  Mike
October 27, 2021 7:10 pm

Journey to the Center of the Earth 1959
https://youtu.be/vP-Q9wXoVJA

bill Johnston
Reply to  Mike
October 27, 2021 7:30 pm

Pending manhood can create many distractions.

RoHa
Reply to  bill Johnston
October 27, 2021 10:21 pm

No, the distractions are already there. One just becomes aware of them.

Randle Dewees
Reply to  bill Johnston
October 28, 2021 7:08 am

“I may have been a disturbance to men, but never a burden”. Or something like that.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Randle Dewees
October 28, 2021 11:55 am

We learn to deal with the “testosterone poisoning!”

John Tillman
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 6:55 pm

Edmund North wrote the screenplay for “The Day the Earth Stood Still”, based upon Harry Bates’ 1940 short story, “Farewell to the Master”. North shared the 1970 Oscar for Best Original Screenplay with Francis Ford Coppola, for “Patton”.

If only they could have persuaded the producers to use Sherman tanks!

RicDre
Reply to  John Tillman
October 27, 2021 7:07 pm

Farewell to the Master is an interesting short story that has the characters Klatu and Gort in it but is otherwise a very different story than The Day The Earth Stood Still. I first read Farewell to the Master in a book called They Came from Outer Space which is a collection of “12 Classic Science Fiction Tales That Became Major Motion Pictures”.

J.R.
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 9:46 pm

Fascinating. Just this afternoon I showed a coworker my copy of “Science-Fiction Classics: The Stories That Morphed Into Movies,” a collection of 15 classic sci-fi tales. It also includes “Farewell to the Master.” It’s a small world, even in the realm of make-believe worlds.

TEWS_Pilot
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 7:04 pm
RicDre
Reply to  TEWS_Pilot
October 27, 2021 7:13 pm

I have a DVD copy of Forbidden Planet. Its always strange seeing Leslie Nielsen in a serious role since he is more recently known for the Airplane! and Naked Gun franchises.

TEWS_Pilot
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 7:36 pm

He played “The Swamp Fox”American Revolutionary War hero Francis Marion in a Disney series from late 1959 through part of 1961… also a serious role.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swamp_Fox_(TV_series)

Abolition Man
Reply to  TEWS_Pilot
October 28, 2021 11:16 am

TEWS_Pilot,
I loved that series on the “Wonderful World of Disney!”One of the few shows we kids were allowed to watch besides “Perry Mason” and “Maverick!”

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
Reply to  Abolition Man
October 28, 2021 1:01 pm

Like my pappy used to say: don’t cry over spilled milk. It could have been whisky.

John Tillman
Reply to  TEWS_Pilot
October 27, 2021 7:24 pm

A remake of Shakespeare’s The Tempest, inspired by the 1609 hurricane which stranded my shipwrecked ancestor Stephen Hopkins on Bermuda, en route to Virginia. Hopkins later migrated to Massachusetts on Mayflower.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  John Tillman
October 28, 2021 12:24 am

I think you may be mistaken, Sir, before the 20th century, hurricanes, tropical storms, & the like, couldn’t possibly have existed back then because the CO2 levels were so low??? Sarc off!!!

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  Alan the Brit
October 28, 2021 4:36 pm

G’Day Alan,

Have you downloaded “Weather” as yet. About 1,400 pages. Not just hurricanes reported but even tornados – in England.

http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/weather.pdf

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  TEWS_Pilot
October 28, 2021 11:58 am

Probably my favorite SciFi movie. The psychological issues underlying the Id are something that one rarely sees today. It won an Oscar for special effects done by Disney studios.

Erik Magnuson
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 7:43 pm

Lock Martin? My first thought was someone was having fun with Lockheed Martin..

TEWS_Pilot
October 27, 2021 6:43 pm

David, that is one of my all time favorite movies. Here is a link for a free viewing or you may download it. It is in the public domain. Full disclosure, as a college intern working toward my undergraduate degree in physics, I was honored to have been selected to work on the Apollo Program.

https://archive.org/details/The.Day.The.Earth.Stood.Still1951

Reply to  David Middleton
October 27, 2021 8:46 pm

I own it now, so can watch it any time on my big screen TV. But must have seen it at least a dozen times on the Saturday morning “Sci-Fi Theater” that the independent TV station ran.

Randle Dewees
Reply to  TEWS_Pilot
October 28, 2021 7:13 am

An important element of some of these classic movies is the film score composer Bernard Herman.

Alan Robertson
October 27, 2021 6:50 pm

All I know is, the magnetic declination here (the difference between true North and magnetic North,) is different than when I was a Boy Scout and is also different than it was a dozen years ago. The magnetic poles move rapidly within a human lifetime.

Richard Page
Reply to  Alan Robertson
October 28, 2021 3:02 am

Even a spinning top will wobble ever so slightly – it’s the gyroscope effect that keeps the poles movement within a small region. Hence why I think the Earth tipping right over could simply not happen unless it stopped spinning first.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Richard Page
October 30, 2021 2:10 pm

If the Earth was a perfect sphere with an isotropic mass distribution, it would have no principal axis of inertia and thus its spin axis could wander greatly with only the slightest of externally applied torques (say, from a passing asteroid). There would be no need for its spin to stop in order to change spin axis.

This effect can be observed readily on spinning a billiard ball, noting how the number spot on it wanders due to very slight friction irregularities at its point of contact point with the supporting surface.

However, the Earth is an oblate spheroid, not a sphere, and hence it has a principal axis of inertia that it spins about, with a large amount of rotational inertia (rotational momentum) that stabilizes this spin axis against disturbance torques and against very minor changes in Earth’s overall mass distribution (e.g., plate tectonics).

MarkW
Reply to  Alan Robertson
October 28, 2021 7:51 am

There is a theory that magnetic north can move more rapidly when the magnetic field over all weakens. (After all, it’s getting ready to flip completely.)

One of the proofs of previous flips is that the magnetic field recorded in the spreading Atlantic floor has flipped many times.
I was wondering if it would be possible to take more detailed readings of these strips to determine the angle to the pole over time as the strips were being laid down?

Mike Dubrasich
October 27, 2021 7:03 pm

Maybe not the entire planet, but didn’t Guam tip over and capsize? sarc/

PS – Some Congresspersons are the prize idiots of all time. notsarc/

Abolition Man
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
October 27, 2021 8:49 pm

Mike,
At least it wasn’t swallowed up by a black hole like that missing airliner!

DonM
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
October 28, 2021 10:13 am

But Guam, tipping over, could literally be the trigger tipping point of the earth tipping sideways.

We have to recognize the big picture, not just the little stuff.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
October 30, 2021 2:16 pm

Island of Guam Tipping Over and Capsizing from Population Growth:

https://youtu.be/cesSRfXqS1Q

courtesy of the peak intelligence of Hank Johnson U.S. Representative for Georgia’s 4th congressional district.

October 27, 2021 7:06 pm

Mars’ obliquity wanders are chaotic without a large companion Moon to stabilize it (see attach). We are here to talk about this because Earth was fortuitous ~4.4 Gya to acquire a large Moon.

You can’t even talk about Venus’s obliquity without huge uncertainty in understanding how it got so weird. And Mercury is tidally locked to the Sun.
That’s the 4 rocks closest to the Sun. The rest are gas giants or obit gas giants.

Marsobliquity.jpg
RicDre
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
October 27, 2021 7:21 pm

Mars’ obliquity wanders are chaotic without a large companion Moon to stabilize it

Too bad Phobos and Deimos are so small. They are kind of scary though (Fear and Dread).

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  RicDre
October 27, 2021 8:07 pm

They are kind of scary though (Fear and Dread).

Or perhaps ‘Fear and Loathing’?

H.R.
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 27, 2021 8:48 pm

Well now that brings up the topic of ether.

John Tillman
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
October 27, 2021 7:30 pm

Mars’ tilt just happens right now to be similar to Earth’s.

Sort of like how the Moon now just happens to appear about the same size as the Sun, seen from Earth.

Venus’ tilt and rotation are deeply weird.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  John Tillman
October 27, 2021 8:21 pm

Sort of like how the Moon now just happens to appear about the same size as the Sun, seen from Earth.

It’s amazing that this happened to coincide with the ascendancy of humanity.

John Tillman
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 27, 2021 8:33 pm

And with the evolution of countless other species.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  John Tillman
October 28, 2021 12:14 am

And with the evolution of countless other species.

Yeahbut….

They don’t notice nor care, and certainly wouldn’t see any significance in the matter. We do and did.

Mike McMillan
Reply to  John Tillman
October 27, 2021 8:27 pm

Coincidence?

That’s just what they want you to think.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Mike McMillan
October 28, 2021 12:03 pm

Who is “they?”

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
October 28, 2021 4:32 pm

They don’t want you to know.

Reply to  John Tillman
October 27, 2021 8:40 pm

If you read the full paper I attached, you see the authors had their curiosity piquied in how Mars obliquity wanders abruptly settled down about 4 million years ago and now to today’s relatively low values.
That timing roughly coincides with Earth’s cooling and descent into Ice Ages … a coincidence??? No one knows.

MarkW
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
October 28, 2021 7:55 am

How long ago did Mar’s core solidify?

JohnC
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
October 28, 2021 1:35 am

One of the gas giants,Uranus, has a 98 degree obliquity, it’s North Pole is in its Southern Hemisphere. That has not been explained as far as I know.

MarkW
Reply to  JohnC
October 28, 2021 7:57 am

In a few hundred years, the Earth’s north pole is also going to be in it’s southern hemisphere.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  MarkW
October 30, 2021 2:28 pm

MarkW,

If you are referring to Earth’s magnetic North pole, what you say MAY be possible.

If you are referring to Earth’s spin axis North pole, there is simply no chance in hell that will happen, even with a <10 km size asteroid impact (and there are no predictions for such happening within the next 500 years or so).

TonyG
Reply to  JohnC
October 28, 2021 11:19 am

Do you mean the reason for the obliquity, or why they identify the North Pole as the one in the “south”?

MarkW
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
October 28, 2021 7:53 am

or obit gas giants

What, the gas giants are dead?

H. D. Hoese
October 27, 2021 7:36 pm

One of the most interesting, frustrating and unsuccessful episodes in nautical history was the attempt to determine longitude with compass using both declination and inclination. This study was the result of very extensive compilations from ship’s journals back to 1600s. Fascinating story with general knowledge of geomagnetism. Oh did it wander.

   Jackson, A., Jonkers, A. R. T. and M. Walker. 2000. Four centuries of Geomagnetic Secular Variation from Historical Records. Philosophical Transactions Royal Society London. A. 256(1768):957-990.
   Jonkers, A. R. T. 2003. Earth’s Magnetism in the Age of Sail. Johns Hopkins University, Press. Baltimore. 300pp.
   Jonkers, A. R. T., A. Jackson and A. Murray 2003. Four centuries of Geomagnetic Data From Historical Records. Reviews Geophysics. 41(2), 1006, doi:10.1029/2002RG000115.

Yooper
Reply to  H. D. Hoese
October 28, 2021 7:57 am
Opus
October 27, 2021 7:45 pm

Reminds me of Velikavskis theory the Venus was ejected from Jupiter 3,000 years ago, parte the Red Sea for Moses before settling down into it’s current orbit

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Opus
October 27, 2021 8:22 pm

Von Daniken had far better theories. Crackpot ones, all the same, though. But very, very lucrative!

Last edited 1 month ago by Zig Zag Wanderer
Alan the Brit
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 28, 2021 12:44 am

I was about 18-19 & a junior draughtsman at the time when a BBC (when they used to make good quality programmes) programme discredited Von Daniken, especially his apparent dismissal of Human’s ability to create straight/curved lines in the Earth’s surface, without the use of modern surveying technology, the thought that early Human Beings were dumb for some bizarre reason!!!

MarkW
Reply to  Alan the Brit
October 28, 2021 8:00 am

Archaeologists have come up with (and tested) several theories about how the Egyptians could have moved those massive stones using only tools that were known to be available at the time.

There are times when I think that the easy availability of power tools has made people dumber.

DonM
Reply to  Alan the Brit
October 28, 2021 10:20 am

70% of modern humans are dumb. The thought that early Human Beings were dumb is simply projection.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Opus
October 27, 2021 8:55 pm

That is one heck of a carom shot! And I thought snooker was tough!

Alan the Brit
Reply to  Opus
October 28, 2021 12:33 am

Wasn’t that theory also supposed to be the cause of Jupiter’s big red spot?

TonyG
Reply to  Alan the Brit
October 28, 2021 11:20 am

Is that where Venus slapped Jupiter for getting fresh?

Sara
October 27, 2021 8:22 pm

Well, there IS one planet that does kinda rotate on its side, but it isn’t QUITE at the 90 degree angle. More like ALMOST 90 degrees, so it looks like its rotating on its side, poor thing! We didn’t know that until Voyager got there and got the tourist photos. So Uranus looks like its just rolling along, singin’ a song, having a fine old time.

RicDre
Reply to  Sara
October 27, 2021 8:37 pm

Speaking of the planet turned on its side, I am reminded of a 1973 song called Anus Of Uranus sung by a group called Klaatu (probably better know for the 1976 song Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft which later became a hit for the Carpenters in 1977)

Last edited 1 month ago by RicDre
Alan the Brit
Reply to  RicDre
October 28, 2021 12:47 am

That is most likely the reason the pronunciation of the name Uranus was amended to dissuade the younger students from constantly using it as a source of amusement, ET springs to mind!!!

Richard Page
Reply to  Sara
October 28, 2021 3:10 am

It’s actually 98 degrees, quite a big tilt indeed. There are loads of competing theories as to how this could have happened – the latest seems to involve a (now vanished) disc and a significant impact at the right time and place.

Sara
Reply to  Richard Page
October 28, 2021 4:19 am

It was aliens. I saw them do it. 😉

Richard Page
Reply to  Sara
October 28, 2021 7:56 am

That’s always a great go-to explanation for climate change as well!

MarkW
Reply to  Sara
October 28, 2021 8:01 am

and have the souvenir plates to prove it?

Smart Rock
October 27, 2021 8:24 pm

All these reconstructions are based on paleomagnetic data – inclination and declination of remanent magnetism in rocks. We know how much the magnetic poles have wandered in historical times, and how fast the magnetic poles are moving now (north magnetic pole moving at 55-60 km/yr and south magnetic pole moving at 10-15 km/yr). So I have to wonder how they are able to separate magnetic polar wandering from true polar wandering. I suspect that modelling may be involved, and that makes me just a bit skeptical about the whole thing.

As an example, using the IGRF, it appears that the magnetic latitude of my house has decreased by about 5 degrees in the 60 years since 1961, as the north magnetic pole set off on its trek across the Arctic Ocean towards Russia.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Smart Rock
October 27, 2021 10:37 pm

The runway numbers at SNA were changed about 5 – 10 years ago from 1-19 to 2-20. The runway number is the magnetic heading of the runway, to the nearest 5 degrees, divided by 10.

saveenergy
Reply to  Smart Rock
October 27, 2021 11:05 pm

the magnetic latitude of my house has decreased by about 5 degrees in the 60 years since 1961

Empirical proof positive of the dangerous power of CO2.

But on the other hand, 1961 was a strobogrammatic year; so maybe that’s what triggered your movement !!

[ The years 1881 and 1961 were the most recent strobogrammatic years; the next will be 6009. ]

Robert Alfred Taylor
Reply to  saveenergy
October 28, 2021 3:31 pm

I remember the Mad Magazine where they had that.

Abolition Man
October 27, 2021 8:42 pm

David,
Hasn’t Al (ManBearPig) Gore already explained this?
The Earth has a nasty fever from all the deadly, toxic CO2 reaving through the atmosphere! Once the fever gets high enough, Mother Gaia will have to lay down until the lightheadedness goes away! Humanity can restore her to health by returning to the Stone Age, or committing mass suicide! Blah, blah, blah!
It’s amazing how far words like “journalist” and “scientist” have changed in our New Marxist Utopia! If I didn’t know better I might think that they are diametrically opposed to what they once meant, but maybe it’s only a right angle!

Craig from Oz
October 27, 2021 9:01 pm

Klaatu. Barada. Ncoughcoughcough. ?

“Look, maybe I didn’t say every single little tiny syllable, no. But basically I said them, yeah.”

ATheoK
October 27, 2021 9:10 pm

Magnetic North is not Earth’s physical North Pole.

All of that ice surrounding the physical North and South poles provide substantial momentum.

That Magnetic North is an effect from Earth’s magnetic core is correct.
That some people thoroughly know and understand Earth’s molten core and why it is magnetic is highly speculative.

What is known from magnetic traces left in rocks, is that the Earth’s magnetic field periodically reverses.

While wandering poles appear to be eternal, the same as idiot rumor repeaters working for new services.

Mike
October 27, 2021 9:48 pm

Sorry, a bit off topic but everyone needs to see this!

Here it is in full…

Last edited 1 month ago by Mike
Rod Evans
Reply to  Mike
October 27, 2021 11:50 pm

I am unsure what the logo UN/DP stands for in that short cartoon production? Is it UN Daft Productions. Or maybe UN Dino Propaganda? Maybe someone who knows will correct me…..

Robert Berrie
Reply to  Rod Evans
October 28, 2021 1:16 am

United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

Alan the Brit
Reply to  Mike
October 28, 2021 12:56 am

Purrlease, I have only recently finished eating my breakfast, I wasn’t expecting to bring it back up so soon!!! This is a clear dystopian UN brainwashing technique aimed at distorting the minds of the young, naive, gullible, & stupid, or just call them greens!!!

bonbon
Reply to  Mike
October 28, 2021 2:07 am

That’s Greta’s house pet. Sure does not look vegie….

Richard Page
Reply to  bonbon
October 28, 2021 3:16 am

Looks a bit like Greta as well, and repeats the same alarmist rubbish as her. Looks like the UN has gone full retard now.

MarkW
Reply to  Richard Page
October 28, 2021 8:06 am

gone???

Joao Martins
Reply to  Mike
October 28, 2021 12:26 pm

Thank you for the links!

I wonder if this climate conscious dinosaur is my countryman Antonio Guterrez in disguise…

griff
October 28, 2021 1:11 am

Nice try David, but fake news… you know the Earth is flat!

Richard Page
Reply to  griff
October 28, 2021 3:20 am

If the Earth is flat, are we on the ‘A’ side or the ‘B’ side? Clearly every country is on the one side or it would be obvious that it was flat, so what’s on the other side, then? Is that where the Lizard People live, Griffy?

Peter Wells
Reply to  Richard Page
October 28, 2021 5:12 am

Actually if is far more complex. One side contains the likes of Florida and Texas. The other side has the likes of California and China.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  griff
October 28, 2021 12:13 pm

If almost anyone else had said that I would immediately know that they were trying to be funny. However, with you, considering the outrageous claims that you routinely make, I can’t be sure.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  griff
October 30, 2021 2:34 pm

griff,

Heads I win, tails you lose.

Figure it out.

DipChip
October 28, 2021 6:44 am

The build up and loss of ice at the poles over ice ages causes the center of mass to shift.

ATheoK
Reply to  DipChip
October 28, 2021 12:14 pm

causes the center of mass to shift”

Shift?!
Why?!

There is no “up” or “Down” to the Earth.
On Earth, when things fall, they fall towards the center of the Earth.

DipChip
Reply to  ATheoK
October 28, 2021 3:11 pm

The Earth attempts to maintain a spherical shape, however The Earth has a rather slight equatorial bulge due to spin, it is about 43 km (27 mi) wider at the equator than pole-to-pole, a difference which is close to 1/300 of the diameter. If the Earth were scaled down to a globe with diameter of 1 meter at the equator, that difference would be only 3 millimeters.

So what happens to the bulge when the ice builds up or recedes at the poles?

MarkW
Reply to  DipChip
October 28, 2021 4:39 pm

What happens to the bulge? Nothing.
The bulge is caused by the Earth’s spin. Only a change in the rate of spin could cause a change in the bulge.

DipChip
Reply to  MarkW
October 28, 2021 6:54 pm

Wow what a reply

Andy Pattullo
October 28, 2021 7:23 am

How far does the Earth need to tilt to make all the progressives fall off? And more importantly when can we expect that?

MarkW
Reply to  Andy Pattullo
October 28, 2021 8:06 am

What can we do to hurry up the process?

MarkW
October 28, 2021 7:31 am

What does this do to the snowball earth hypothesis?
My understanding is that they measure how close a piece of land is to the equator by measuring the angle of the magnetic field in lava deposits. If the magnetic field is nearly vertical to the ground it means the land is near the pole, horizontal means near the equator.

If the magnetic pole can wander this much, what does it do the accuracy of such assumptions?

bonbon
October 28, 2021 7:40 am

Just checked the movie original having seen the remake. And yes, just as I thought – the hero is Klaus Schwab, sorry Klaatu, of the Planet Davos, not far away at all.

Problem is Schwab and his Robot Gates, sorry Gort, have no flying saucer to escape?

Oh wait – here come Bezos and Musk with prototypes!

Richard Page
Reply to  bonbon
October 28, 2021 8:02 am

They weren’t escaping, they were going home – that’s what the phrase meant – “Gort, Klaatu wants to go home now, darling.”

bonbon
Reply to  Richard Page
October 28, 2021 8:52 am

Unless we do a Great Reset this rock would be burnt to a cinder. Sure looks like Schwab is Klaatu.
Here is Trump arriving at planet Davos :

TonyG
October 28, 2021 7:54 am

Gotta sell the hype.

bonbon
October 28, 2021 8:26 am

As regards polar wander – see Hamlet’s Mill, a run through most known world epics all with polar wander sung, spoken and written, from the far north of Finland to Shakespeare’s Hamlet, to Iran, to the Greeks and Gilgamesh.
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hamlets_mill/hamletmill.htm

Not claiming sudden earth shattering events, rather observed slippage of the heavens themselves!
Now it is one thing to worry about polar axis, another thing entirely for the entire cosmos to slip inexorably. That was the dawn of astronomy.

If one thinks lightly of our remote ancestors, well, look at our current shamans – they incant an exploding cosmos, they upped the ante!

October 29, 2021 11:16 am

Michael Rennie played Klaatu, Gort was the robot

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Richard Lepre
October 30, 2021 11:05 am

Actually, Michael Rennie played “Mr. Carpenter” in the 1951 SF film “The Day the Earth Stood Still” . . . in reality he WAS and forevermore will be Klaatu. 🙂

Gordon A. Dressler
October 30, 2021 9:46 am

The above-referenced excerpts from the Nature Communications article by Ross N. Mitchell, et. al., shows the how dismal the practice of editing scientific publications has become.

Just look at the discordance in the quoted abstract (my underlining emphasis added):
“True polar wander (TPW), or planetary reorientation, is well documented . . . Here we present a new high-resolution paleomagnetic record . . . This observation represents the most recent large-scale TPW documented and challenges the notion that the spin axis has been largely stable over the past 100 million years.”

To repeat David Middleton: Good fracking grief!

1) True polar wander (TPW) is governed by the slight changes in the axis Earth’s principal moment-of-(rotational) inertia with respect to the plane of the ecliptic, as effected by (a) changes in mass distribution due to plate tectonic movement, and (b) by very minor net torques on Earth due to net gravitational imbalances of objects in the solar system, including large comets and large asteroids that pass relatively close to Earth.

2) The Earth’s spinning shape is approximated as an oblate spheroid with an average polar radius of 6,357 km (3,950 mi) along the poles to an average equatorial radius of 6,378 km (3,963 mi). This 21 km (13 mile) radial difference for the size of the Earth represents an ENORMOUS amount of rotational inertia that greatly stabilizes Earth’s spin axis against shifting.

3) Paleomagnetic records of Earth’s magnetic poles (obtained from magnetic orientations that were “locked” into rocks upon their solidification at the given time) are well-known to vary considerably around the planet and to frequently diverge from Earth’s geological pole-to-pole spin axis by significant amounts. This is the result of temporal and spatial variations in the solidification of the planet’s liquid iron core, whereby the cooling and crystallization of the core stirs up the surrounding liquid iron, creating powerful electric currents that in turn create Earth’s overall magnetic field (aka “dynamo effect”).

4) Pilots—let alone high school students taking basic science courses—learn that there is a difference between “true north” (defined “short-term” by Earth’s spin axis) and “magnetic north” (defined by Earth’s magnetic axis). This difference is scientifically referred to as magnetic declination (aka magnetic variation). The magnetic poles are shifting rapidly enough that magnetic drift requires changes when the FAA updates aviation sectional charts every six months.

So, Ross N. Mitchell, et. al., appear totally unaware of the difference, in the past, between Earth’s relatively stable spin axis and Earth’s highly variable magnetic axis, and claim to use paleomagnetic records to establish spin axis variations. Just incredibly unscientific and illogical.

And let’s not overlook the fact that in the above article, Nature/Science Alert author David Nield unquestioningly parrots this absurd claim.

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