Memento from last time someone attempted economic degrowth, in Cambodia in 1975. Sigmankatie, CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons

NYT: “Do We Need to Shrink the Economy to Stop Climate Change?”

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

According to Economic Degrowth proponents, we need to give up guns, S.U.V.s, eating beef, private transportation, advertising and consumer goods, to achieve a life which is more in harmony with nature. But we have to ditch democracy and embrace a green dictatorship, before we can achieve this happy state of communal living.

Do We Need to Shrink the Economy to Stop Climate Change?

By Spencer Bokat-Lindell
Mr. Bokat-Lindell is a staff editor.

This article is part of the Debatable newsletter. You can sign up here to receive it on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

If there is a dominant paradigm for how politicians and economists today think about solving climate change, it is called green growth. According to green growth orthodoxy — whose adherents populate European governments, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Developmentthe World Bank and the White House — the global economy can both continue growing and defuse the threat of a warming planet through rapid, market-led environmental action and technological innovation.

But in recent years, a rival paradigm has been gaining ground: degrowth. In the view of degrowthers, humanity simply does not have the capacity to phase out fossil fuels and meet the ever-growing demand of rich economies. At this late hour, consumption itself has to be curtailed.

The case for degrowth

Perhaps the most prominent proponent of the degrowth movement is Jason Hickel, an economic anthropologist and the author of “Less Is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World.” Degrowth, as he defines it, “is a planned reduction of energy and resource use designed to bring the economy back into balance with the living world in a way that reduces inequality and improves human well-being.”

Degrowth, by contrast, calls for a different kind of economy altogether, one that could improve people’s livelihoods despite a reduction in aggregate activity: It seeks to scale down “ecologically destructive and socially less necessary production” (such as S.U.V.s, weapons, beef, private transportation, advertising and consumer technologies that are designed to obsolesce) while expanding “socially important sectors” like health care and education.

New York magazine’s Eric Levitz agrees that “Americans might well find themselves happier and more secure in an ultra-low-carbon communal economy in which individual car ownership is heavily restricted, and housing, health care, and myriad low-carbon leisure activities are social rights.” But, he adds, “nothing short of an absolute dictatorship could affect such a transformation at the necessary speed. And the specter of eco-Bolshevism does not haunt the Global North. Humanity is going to find a way to get rich sustainably, or die trying.”

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/16/opinion/degrowth-cllimate-change.html/

The idea of giving up all that our ancestors fought and strived for might seem too ridiculous to consider, but concepts like Degrowth have a shocking level of support from our academics and politicians. And journalists, if the NYT article is any guide.

Proponents of Economic Degrowth might have good reason to be confident, because it already happened once, in 1975, in Cambodia, when a charismatic madman convinced academics and community leaders to support his attempt to return their society to the middle ages. His plan was to restore traditional values, by restructuring society to facilitate the rise of a perfect communist state, where everyone could live in small village communal bliss, in total harmony with nature. Or so he promised.

The reality was not what Pol Pot promised. The horrific legacy of Cambodia’s Year Zero project is vast piles of bones and skulls, like the picture at the top of this page.

… Pol Pot transformed Cambodia into a one-party state called Democratic Kampuchea. Seeking to create an agrarian socialist society that he believed would evolve into a communist society, Pol Pot’s government forcibly relocated the urban population to the countryside to work on collective farms. Pursuing complete egalitarianism, money was abolished and all citizens were made to wear the same black clothing. Pol Pot was a driving force behind the Cambodian genocide, the systematic persecution and killing of Cambodians that the Khmer Rouge regarded as enemies. The genocide, coupled with malnutrition and poor medical care, killed between 1.5 and 2 million people, approximately a quarter of Cambodia’s population. Repeated purges of the CPK generated growing discontent; by 1978 Cambodian soldiers were mounting a rebellion in the east. After several years of border clashes, the newly unified Vietnam invaded Cambodia in December 1978, toppling Pol Pot and installing a rival Marxist–Leninist government in 1979. The Khmer Rouge retreated to the jungles near the Thai border, from where they continued to fight. In declining health, Pol Pot stepped back from many of his roles in the movement. In 1998 the Khmer Rouge commander Ta Mok placed Pol Pot under house arrest, shortly after which he died. …

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot

The Climate Economic Degrowth plan described by NYT includes more money for the education sector. Some of the money saved by heavily restricting the production of goods Degrowth proponents don’t like will be channeled to the academics who created this idea. Limited production of goods will be permitted, which will presumably include rough road vehicles, and guns and ammo for the bodyguards of the academic elite.

i mean, someone needs to oversee the new restricted living communal villages. Regular inspections would be required to enforce living in harmony with nature, to ensure that any political unreliables with engineering skills who somehow survive the purges don’t covertly attempt to break the mandatory harmony by building forbidden machines.

My point is, what happened in Cambodia in 1975 could happen again. The strength of the deep green back to nature movement is the measure of our peril.

Only vigilance and prompt public challenge can prevent Climate Economic Degrowth proponents from tapping into ordinary people’s understandable angst about technology and our fast paced changing society, just as Pol Pot once did in Cambodia.

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FrozenOhio
September 17, 2021 2:15 pm

I swear we live in the Twilight Zone now. Also, I’m pretty convinced the elite want some sort of civil war in this country and abroad.

Scary times.

Reply to  FrozenOhio
September 17, 2021 3:17 pm

Earth is now cooling due to low solar activity, just as we predicted in 2002. The Sun drives climate in the centuries time frame.
 
CO2 changes lag temperature changes in the modern data record, as I proved in 2008. The future cannot cause the past.
 
The CAGW (catastrophic human-made global warming) scare is a fifty-year-old fraud that is long past its due date.

The warmist fraudsters are already alleging that “warming causes cooling” – but only the very stupidest or most deceitful of individuals will say they believe them – politicians, mainstream media, lefties, etc.
 
SEVERE FROSTS RAVAGE WA WINTER CROP, STUDY: CO2 FROM AUSTRALIA’S WILDFIRES OFFSET BY ALGAL BLOOMS, + GAS SHORTAGES BEGIN CLOSING INDUSTRY ACROSS EUROPE
September 17, 2021 Cap Allon
The day we realists feared is perilously close. A dismantling of capitalism is in play, under the guise of “saving the planet”.

Last edited 2 months ago by ALLAN MACRAE
Sam Best
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
September 18, 2021 3:59 pm

Earth is COOLING NOW? Have you actually looked at DATA?

comment image

Michael S. Kelly
Reply to  Sam Best
September 18, 2021 8:16 pm

This isn’t data. Data are, in this context, measurements of defined, measurable physical quantities in specific numerical units. What is presented in this plot is “Temperature Change,” whatever that means. Note that the graph goes from negative to positive, meaning that there is no established basis from which “change” can be deduced.

Further, what is the “temperature” that has changed? Is it one temperature, measured at, say, the Greenwich Observatory? No, it isn’t. There isn’t “one temperature” of the Earth.

So what is this temperature, from which the “change” is calculated? Apparently, it is the result of a time series average of temperatures at each of several thousand weather stations across the globe, which are then kriged to a fixed grid of “temperature” nodes, from which the difference between today’s calculated results differ from a 30 year average of the average of the fixed grid “temperatures” – none of which represent an actual temperature measurement.

In short, your plots contain no actual data whatsoever. And they mean nothing.

MarkW
Reply to  Sam Best
September 18, 2021 8:41 pm

What you consider to be data, isn’t.

MarkW
Reply to  FrozenOhio
September 17, 2021 3:46 pm

It’s not so much that the desire a civil war. It’s more that they actually believe that the vast majority of the people agree with them, and that the small number who don’t, don’t matter anyway.

SxyxS
Reply to  MarkW
September 17, 2021 5:40 pm

You can’t be more wrong .

1)they have set up the Georgia Guidestones with the aim of a >500 mio population.
2) These are the guys behind all US wars.
All based on lies and promoted by their msm.
You don’t get to that number by being nice.
3) Almost all refugees are fighting age males.
4)The Frankfurt School considered the west as only big obstacle for world communism and made plans to take it down by critical theory and polymorphic perversion.
5) They arm the enemy on purpose.
You never leave your weapons to the enemy as Biden did.
And for sure you do not arm the enemy while you try to take the guns from your own people,except your own people are the enemy.
6)AGW and Covid are not enough to implement to impose a totalitarian rule with total surveillance, but a permanent terrorist threat will .
They did already a successful testrun with projekt Gladio 1&2 with success,this time Gladio will be permanent.
7)Everything in the article above was already predicted by William Cooper since the 80ies.
(Especially the end of meat)
He even predicted a massive attack in 2001 in the USA.(former fbi member Sibel Edmonds stated after the attacks that the bush government was systematically blocking and ignoring informations about incoming terror attacks before 9/11 happened.
She also sabotaged the military coup in turkey by warning Erdogan during a corbett report interview that he’ll be replaced within a few weaks by the wall street)
8)commies were never shy to systematically exterminate millions of people to get what they want..
And the western media looked away and successfully ridiculed those who exposed those killings for 6 decades.
This time it’ ll be the same.

Duane
Reply to  SxyxS
September 17, 2021 6:44 pm

Black helicopters?

Sheesh

2hotel9
Reply to  Duane
September 18, 2021 4:37 am

Yea, they are not black, they are flat matte green. Details matter.

Reply to  FrozenOhio
September 17, 2021 4:47 pm

That’s because the elite figure they’ll have the military on their side to put down the deplorables. The history of the War of the Northern Aggression is unknown to them.

Dave Yaussy
Reply to  James Schrumpf
September 17, 2021 6:25 pm

The War of Northern Aggression that resulted in the freeing of millions of human beings? That Aggression?

AndyHce
Reply to  Dave Yaussy
September 17, 2021 6:48 pm

humans transferred to become wards of Congress.

MarkW
Reply to  Dave Yaussy
September 18, 2021 8:39 pm

Who would have been freed in a few decades because slavery was no longer profitable. So several hundred thousand lives were thrown away for nothing.

BTW, even Lincoln said the war was to preserve the Union, and only that. Ending slavery was nothing more than one of the tactics used. That’s why the Emancipation Proclamation only feed slaves in the break away states. Slave states that stayed in the union weren’t covered by it.

Duane
Reply to  James Schrumpf
September 17, 2021 6:45 pm

Is WUWT now whack job central?

Sheesh!

Reply to  Duane
September 17, 2021 9:29 pm

WUWT is an open forum where Anthony allows people to express their opinions on his chalk board as they pass by. Just like on the Left, the far Right can be fact-free opinion as well. Don’t take the WUWT chalk board for anything more than that in many cases.

Sam Best
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
September 18, 2021 4:01 pm

You certainly won’t find any peer reviewed science on WUWT.

MarkW
Reply to  Sam Best
September 18, 2021 8:40 pm

WUWT provides better peer review than any of the so called scientific journals.

Lrp
Reply to  Sam Best
September 18, 2021 11:25 pm

Anything anyone says is reviewed here, and by people smarter and better educated than yourself

2hotel9
Reply to  Duane
September 18, 2021 4:37 am

You are here, guess so.

Sam Best
Reply to  Duane
September 18, 2021 4:40 pm

Always has been

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  FrozenOhio
September 18, 2021 6:35 am

If there is a civil war we need to make sure the elites fare as well as the the 18th century French elites.

TonyG
Reply to  FrozenOhio
September 20, 2021 8:49 am

I’m pretty convinced the elite want some sort of civil war

It would give them a perfect excuse for a full-fledged lockdown and/or martial law.

Danley Wolfe
September 17, 2021 2:16 pm

Shut it down. Climate change / appearance of being green is more important, in fact, the most important thing in the universe. (sic)

Steve Harford
September 17, 2021 2:18 pm

No step on snek

Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2021 2:19 pm

For the sake of the planet the New York Times should immediately ban flying for their reporters. Only Amtrack and yachts! And they should immediately turn off the air conditioning, all the lights and the computers. Pencils only. Such a venerable and highly regarded organization like NYT should lead by example.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2021 6:14 pm

Such a venerable and highly regarded organization like NYT.

Probably irony but: a once venerable and highly regarded organization like NYT.
This is worth reading (5min).

Alan the Brit
Reply to  Bruce of Newcastle
September 18, 2021 12:56 am

But the pencils have to be made using wood & graphite & machines, better for them to pick up a small stone & scratch out on a large stone, I think it’s been done before!!!

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Bruce of Newcastle
September 18, 2021 2:36 am

There are still manual typewriters to be found in curio shops and attics. The NYT reporters can do it the old-fashioned way, no need for computers or electricity. Typesetting can be done manually too, a tedious job, but something that was still being taught in graphic arts classes in the 60s.

Sara
Reply to  Bruce of Newcastle
September 18, 2021 5:34 am

As long as you include a return to typesetting with a lead-based system like the Mergenthaler, I’m up for it! No more “typesetting” on the desktop. It all goes to skilled laborers who know how to run those old machines, never mind doing the paste-up and litho mats for making plates and how to install “furniture” (dividers) properly in the type boxes.

Or maybe we could just go back to the Town Crier.

Ah, those WERE the days…..

DMA
September 17, 2021 2:21 pm

Do We Need to Shrink the Economy to Stop Climate Change? In a word NO. It would have no effect on the climate and it would make NO sense.

John the Econ
September 17, 2021 2:24 pm

The idea of giving up all that our ancestors fought and strived for might seem too ridiculous to consider, but concepts like Degrowth have a shocking level of support from our academics and politicians. And journalists, if the NYT article is any guide.

What’s stopping them? These academics, politicians and journalists can start living this dream today. There is literally nothing stopping them. Instead, they demand more money for themselves, which is literally the opposite of “degrowth”.

Based upon this behavior, all I can conclude is that when they say “degrowth”, they mean less for me while entitling more of the same for them.

This idea is hardly new. When I was in school nearly 40 years ago, I recall coming across advocates of a more sustainable “hunter-gatherer” existence. Yet, for reasons they’d never rationally articulate they were seeking advanced degrees in academia instead of living their supposed dream existence. I’d respond that we already have plenty of people living the “hunter-gatherer” existence all about us. They’re called “The Homeless”. Somehow, that didn’t seem to resonate with them.

John the Econ
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 17, 2021 4:30 pm

One of my maxims is: Of all the avowed Marxists I knew in school, absolutely none of them envisioned their futures as one of the “workers”. No different for this bunch. They all think they’ll somehow come out ahead while everyone else is made to suffer.

Reply to  John the Econ
September 17, 2021 4:55 pm

Every revolution (except for the American Revolution) taught this lesson: Once the revolution the elites fomented is over, the new government of tough men who took over get rid of them first, because — who needs a bunch of people who foment revolution around?

Reply to  John the Econ
September 17, 2021 4:51 pm

Robert A. Heinlein covered this territory in his novel “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”:

Must be a yearning deep in human heart to stop other people from doing as they please. Rules, laws — always for other fellow. A murky part of us, something we had before we came down out of trees, and failed to shuck when we stood up. Because not one of those people said: ‘Please pass this so that I won’t be able to do something I know I should stop.’ Nyet, tovarishchee, was always something they hated to see neighbors doing. Stop them ‘for their own good’ — not because speaker claimed to be harmed by it.

garboard
Reply to  John the Econ
September 17, 2021 5:48 pm

urban outdoorsmen

M Courtney
September 17, 2021 2:31 pm

You do need to give up guns. But that has nothing to do with climate change.

I mean, you can’t stop a drone strike with an assault rifle so it does nothing to limit the state’s monopoly of violence .
It just allows crazies to kill.

MarkW
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 17, 2021 3:55 pm

It will never be true.
While a rifle may not be able to take out a tank. It can take out the tank driver, or it can take out the tanks mechanics.

Sara
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 18, 2021 5:44 am

No, Eric, it isn’t true, never has been. When “EOD” was on TV with a camera crew following a Navy EOD team whose assignment was eliminate bombs buried in commonly used roads (among other things), the explosives they dismantled were made up of plastic jugs of fuel and shrapnel with battery-powered triggers, and anything else that would detonate when “pressed”. That’s a simplistic description of that low-tech stuff.

That was about 10 years ago, in Afghanistan. Improvised explosives like that were everywhere and they were lethal AND impressive. It does not take high tech to make stuff like that.

Ron Long
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 2:50 pm

The authors of the US Constitution put the second amendment in the Bill of Rights to prevent tyranny. The fact that miscreants (you know who they are) misuse firearms has nothing to do with the basic right of armed citizens. Some cultures seem to prefer knives, how about them?

Mark Smith
Reply to  Ron Long
September 17, 2021 8:49 pm

The second amendment hardly does that even if you follow the 1980 Supreme Court transform.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 3:04 pm

M. Courtney: the Taliban won in Afghanistan, and all they had were guns.

You give up yours, but I am keeping all of mine, one of which is a heavy barrel variable 15x scoped bipod ‘sniper’ Rem 700 in .223, capable of taking a woodchuck at 800 yards with my hand loads. Semi auto pistols in 5 calibers, revolvers in 2 calibers, scoped rifles in 4 calibers plus unscoped lever actions in two calibers, shotguns in semiauto, over/under, and pump configurations in both 20 and 12 gauge, plus three different rifle over shotgun combos useful for Turkey, coyote, and wild boar hunting: Stevens .22/20; Stevens .223/12, and Valmet .308/12.

Scissor
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 17, 2021 3:31 pm

I’ll back you up.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Scissor
September 17, 2021 5:16 pm

Love it. I supply. And ammo is not a problem, since I mostly reload and still have plenty of supply—except my beloved IMR rifle gunpowder from DuPont. Ran out on last major reload.

Sara
Reply to  Scissor
September 18, 2021 5:46 am

Got room for someone who can cook?

AndyHce
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 17, 2021 6:54 pm

ATF thanks you for registering.

Alexy Scherbakoff
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 17, 2021 10:27 pm

Your gun collection may make a great prize for a would-be robber, But the government wouldn’t give a shit about you being armed.

Last edited 2 months ago by Alexy Scherbakoff
saveenergy
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 17, 2021 10:37 pm

Why so many different calibers ?
In a survival/defense situation, wouldn’t it be more logistically efficient to standardize on say 3 ( for close/med/far range ).

MarkW
Reply to  saveenergy
September 18, 2021 8:44 pm

Depends on what you are shooting. A round capable of killing a bear, would explode a rabbit.

Last edited 2 months ago by MarkW
MarkW
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 3:53 pm

That must be why armies all over the world have gotten rid of fire arms, they just aren’t any good in modern warfare.

When you can figure out why that statement is so stupid, you will probably be able to figure out why your statement is equally stupid.

H. D. Hoese
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 4:37 pm

The US government administration just got whipped by an extremely inferior force, my grandfather (WWI), father and uncle (WWII), among others, would be ashamed. Cowards give up despite monopolies.

Philo
Reply to  H. D. Hoese
September 17, 2021 6:14 pm

The administration lost the war. Our soldiers and allies would easily won the war if the strategy had been to win it. The administration purposely lost it, wasting US and allies lives.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Philo
September 17, 2021 7:46 pm

Democrats always do that. They are completely useless at national defense. This time, everyone can see it.

I read an article today that said Biden was a football and baseball player in high school and college, but he got himself a Vietnam war draft deferrment for having asthma. I can’t say if the deferrment was legitimate or not. And I don’t think it was or is a crime to get a draft deferrment, as long as it is done legally. There are lots of reasons for not wanting to be drafted. Besides, us volunteers didn’t need any help.

Then in 1972, Biden ran on the anti-Vietnam war ticket. And as soon as he won election, he, along with the other Democrats who had control of Congress at the time voted to throw South Vietnam to the wolves, just like Biden has thrown Afghanistan to the wolves.

Biden is a walking, mumbling disaster. He has ruined the lives of literally millions of people since he has been in office, and the damage he has done is not over by a long shot, especially for the poor souls in Afghanstan that he cares not a wit about.

Biden portrays himself as caring, but he is cold as ice. He is unmoved by the misery he causes.

Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 4:56 pm

Who just left Afghanistan with their tails between their legs, and who’s in charge there now?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  James Schrumpf
September 17, 2021 8:03 pm

Biden is the only one with his tail between his legs.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 5:50 pm

Tell the Taliban. Besides, the drone strikes are only used to kill civilians.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
September 17, 2021 8:04 pm

That’s Biden’s infamous “over the horizon” capablity.

What a loser he is!

SxyxS
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 5:59 pm

You do need to give up buttlicking and stupidity then you will realise that it is 1000 * easier to get rid of a tyrant with guns than with sticks.

The number of people that can be killed with drone strikes is pretty limited .
It wouldn’t be enough to kill the annual population increase.
Even Solschenytzin said that communist wouldn’t had been able to kill so many millionpeople
if the russian population had guns.
Compared to the number of people being shot in you country the number of people killed by the US government all around the world since end of ww2 is magnitudes higher and a person must be a very special kind of stupid to believe that people who systematically make war all around the world are trying to take guns from the own population because they care for lives.

Anyway – this time most people will be killed by starving them to death.
It’s the easiest way and they can always blame AGW

Rory Forbes
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 7:13 pm

What an ignorant statement. Those who willingly give up their personal weapons deserve all the indignities they will inevitably have forced upon them by their government … just look at places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada the UK and most countries in Europe now. The Marxists are winning. “Climate change” is far from being the only government sponsored tyranny. Regardless of the sophistication of the state, personal weapons scare the crap out of the politicians who use their power for their own ends. That’s why they’re so willing to listen to the Karens and mislabel the weapons enabling them to be removed from citizen hands.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Rory Forbes
September 17, 2021 8:16 pm

There are lots of stories where Americans have saved their own lives because they had a gun. And having a gun and using it doesn’t always end up with someone being k!lled.

I once had a burglar break into a house I was living in and he marched back to my bedroom with his flashlight shining off the walls and ceiling, and about the time he got to my bedroom door, which was open, I cocked the hammer on my pistol that was in my hand, and as soon as the burglar heard that sound, he was running just as fast as he could to get out the door. I didn’t even have to shoot him.

In my State, everyone over the age of 21 can legally carry a gun. So that little old lady that might look vulnerable may surprise you if you try to rob her.

There are always going to be a few psychos who misuse a gun, but if they didn’t have a gun, they would find something else to use. That’s no reason to deprive the rest of us of the ability to protect ourselves.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 17, 2021 9:04 pm

Being Canadian, the gun issue is a national embarrassment for many of us and continues to be so. It’s an easy vote getter for reformers and progressives not to mention the Left.

I grew up in a hunting family with a well supplied arsenal (no hand guns of course) but everyone could shoot or at least understood gun safety. I got my own .22 at 15 the year after an incident I won’t forget. My father was away on business for a few days and I awoke to the sound of my mother’s “dangerous” voice; “don’t you move another inch“. As I got to the top of the stairs, there she was with the Remington pump aimed into the half light. I could just make out a man – transfixed, reaching for one of my father’s silver trophies. At the unmistakable sound of her chambering a round the guy was suddenly animated … heading for the half opened door. It was all over in seconds. Our hunting dog slept contentedly, throughout, no doubt dreaming of pheasants.

I later learned that the gun was not loaded. The sound alone was enough. The guns were all kept in my parents bedroom, while the ammunition was stored in the basement. It hadn’t occurred to my mother that the gun was unloaded.

I understand that some people are uncomfortable with guns. That’s their right, but it is not their right to put their nose in my business. I’ve come to learn that your 2nd amendment was one of the wisest additions to the Constitution. It no longer surprises me why the Democrats hate it so much.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Rory Forbes
September 18, 2021 2:54 am

The Ka-Chunk of a pump shotgun cambering a round should send fear into the heart of a villain! Guns are only dangerous in the hands of those not schooled in gun safety. As in so many cases, knowledge is powerful and knowing how to handle a firearm renders them quite safe. Accidents with guns almost entirely happen to people with no training in how to use one.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
September 18, 2021 10:22 am

That sound IS rather evocative, is it not? Funny, as a kid I used to ask to clean the guns, just so I could listen to that sound. You’re right about the training, too.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Rory Forbes
September 18, 2021 5:02 am

The story about your mother reminds me of my mother.

One time when I was about six years old, my father was at work ndt it was after dark, and we heard a noise at our back door, and all of a sudden my mother yelled out, calling my Dad’s name, and saying “Bring me that shotgun!”

Whatever was making the noise went away. 🙂

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 18, 2021 10:02 am

It’s the “voice“, Tom … the voice we hear when our conscience makes a suggestion. The same one I’m sure was in Frank Herbert’s mind when he created ‘Dune’s‘ Bene Gesserit Reverend mothers.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 18, 2021 5:29 am

Btw, I think I met one of the burglars, although I don’t know their identity.

The night before the break-in, I was sitting at home alone at night with just the television on, and I heard a knock on my door. I didn’t have a dog at the time. The next morning after the attempted theft, my sister brought over two of her pitbull dogs to stand guard, and I have had dogs ever since. Of course, I had to build them a nice big, tall fence where they could run free inside.

I answered the door and there was a young woman of around 20 years old, and a pickup truck was parked outside with someone behind the wheel but too far away for me to see clearly. And she asked me if she could use my telephone. This was when there were only landlines available.

As it happened, my telephone was not working, and I let her listen to the dead handset, and she thanked me and then went out and got in the truck and they drove off.

The next night was when the break-in happened. I didn’t get a good look at the guy who broke in because all I could see behind his flashlight were his pants and his shoes. I assume this was the guy driving the pickup the night before.

When he ran down the hall away from me, I couldn’t go charging after him because I didn’t know whether he had ducked into another room on his way down the hall so I had to stop and check each room as I went in order to keep him from surprising me from behind.

But he didn’t stop on the way out the door and when I got outside I could see his tracks in the snow. It was about early March and we had about and inch or so of snow on the ground, although some of it had melted the day before so there were patches of snow rather than everything being covered. And it was about 15 degrees F.

I followed their tracks for about an eighth of a mile before I lost them because the snow was melted at that location. They must have parked their car a quarter of a mile away on the highway because they would have been seen on the road leading up to my house. So they walked at least a quarter of a mile to get to my house. And ran that far getting away. 🙂

The reason I’m pretty sure that girl was involved is when I went out the next morning at daylight and looked around, I could see two sets of footprints in the snow. One set was a big footprint and one was a small footprint.

The small footprints didn’t come up to my backdoor where the break-in happened. Instead, they were clustered around a small shed behind the house. She was either hiding behind the shed watching what the guy was doing, or she might have been looking in the shed.

So can you imagine what she was thinking when she sees her boyfriend/husband/fellow perp break in to the house and she can probably see his flashlight as he works his way to the back of the house, and then there is a flurry of activity in the house, and the perp comes busting out the back door running as fast as he can! And then they both took off.

I like to think that I scared them so bad that night that they decided to change their lives and stop stealing from other people. It’s a possibility. All generated from the click of a hammer.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 18, 2021 10:10 am

I like to think that I scared them so bad that night that they decided to change their lives

Just think, You might have became “an influencer” with nothing more than a hammer click.

Great story, by the way. These things have a way of being somewhat surreal.

Last edited 2 months ago by Rory Forbes
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 9:30 pm

Someone is controlling those drones. Those someones have to go home at night as well. Those someones don’t live in bunkers 24/7/365.

saveenergy
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
September 17, 2021 10:47 pm

But the victims can’t get to them !
Drones used in Afghanistan & the middle east were being controlled by a guy from the other side of the world.

2hotel9
Reply to  M Courtney
September 18, 2021 4:41 am

Sell your snake oil to the taliban, sweety.

Andrew Wilkins
Reply to  M Courtney
September 18, 2021 7:42 am

As a Limey, it always intrigues me to see the divisive subject of guns discussed by you chaps in the US. Here in the UK guns are just seen as something for criminals and farmers to use. Hell, our regular beat cops are armed with nothing more lethal than a big stick. The only rozzers using a shooter are the lads in the Sweeney (rhyming slang: Sweeney Todd = Flying Squad)

guns.jpg
MarkW
Reply to  Andrew Wilkins
September 18, 2021 8:52 pm

From what I have read, most cops in the UK are getting tired of being out gunned by the criminals.

Anyone who thinks outlawing guns will disarm criminals has nothing solid between their ears. The vase majority of the gun violence in the US is done by people who aren’t legally allowed to own guns. More laws won’t slow them down in the slightest.

Andrew Wilkins
Reply to  MarkW
September 19, 2021 1:58 am

” More laws won’t slow them down in the slightest”
This is most definitely true in the UK – your average criminal isn’t going to be put off carrying a gun because it’s illegal. The keyword is “criminal”.

Loren C. Wilson
Reply to  M Courtney
September 18, 2021 4:08 pm

The crazies can always get a gun. So can all the people that aren’t legally allowed to use them. Does your country prevent all drug smuggling? As soon as firearms are banned, they will be smuggled in as well. Waving a magic wand and pronouncing the country a gun-free zone works as well as the signs at schools. It would only stop law-abiding people, and they aren’t the problem.

MarkW
Reply to  Loren C. Wilson
September 18, 2021 8:53 pm

They don’t have to be smuggled. Anyone with a few thousand dollars worth of machine equipment can make them.

Tom Halla
September 17, 2021 2:38 pm

Degrowth is no more morally repulsive than what Paul Ehrlich proposed in 1968, that India and other third world countries were definitely going to starve, and that essentially making sure that they did so to reduce the population was needed. Murder of others as opposed to your own people?
I fail to see the moral distinction.

Sparko
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 17, 2021 3:04 pm

Malthusianism is a theory born from base instinct. Sophistry dressed up as ethics

SxyxS
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 17, 2021 6:15 pm

Well ,the starvation of india and co is offially happening as results droughts,climate disruption etc caused by AGW.
Except that the exact opposite is happening (as always with AGW predictions)
as the food production is rising and rising
and the population reduction they wished for isn’t happening.
But it will happen.
Not because of AGW but because of the restriction that are being justified with AGW.
So the hunger will be indeed manmade.
Not as redult of climate but of politics.

John Bell
September 17, 2021 2:51 pm

Let them live like the Amish, the elites, let them set the example. We know it works, for the Amish.

Hoyt Clagwell
Reply to  John Bell
September 17, 2021 4:15 pm

Even the Amish don’t live fully like the Amish. If they need something done by machine they just hire a Mennonite to do it for them.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Hoyt Clagwell
September 18, 2021 3:01 am

Having lived with Amish and Mennonite neighbors I am well aware of just how much into the “English” world they have come in recent decades. Farming is backbreaking work when one eschews all mechanized help and I do not begrudge them the use of hay elevators and milking machines. They still plow and harvest with horses.

Hoyt Clagwell
September 17, 2021 3:04 pm

No more fossil fuels!! Only fuels made from living things like whales and trees should be allowed!

Philo
Reply to  Hoyt Clagwell
September 17, 2021 6:17 pm

Hoyt, if you really believe that is possible you’d best see a shrink. Get your brain in order.

Sara
Reply to  Philo
September 18, 2021 6:30 am

I think Hoyt is being sarcastic, Philo.

Rud Istvan
September 17, 2021 3:05 pm

One good thing about the growing climate nuttery. It is so bad now that it exposes the warmunists to easy ridicule. As here.

Rusty
September 17, 2021 3:12 pm

Degrowth is known as a recession. Permanent recession will destroy economies and cause misery for hundreds of millions.

Chris Hanley
September 17, 2021 3:24 pm

“… to bring the economy back into balance with the living world in a way that reduces inequality …” may sound like a noble idea to a twenty-something journalism graduate but human nature and history show it never works for the obvious reason that equality can be attained only by force and therefore: how can enforcers remain equal to the rest?
Young Spencer has other bright ideas, for instance to make the most of your in-flight baggage be creative about packing: “if you’re going to Dubai, for instance, you probably don’t need your winter coat”.

Last edited 2 months ago by Chris Hanley
MarkW
Reply to  Chris Hanley
September 17, 2021 4:05 pm

I wish I can remember who said it first. But if you seized all the money and property in the country and divided it up equally. Within 10 years, everyone who was rich before will be rich again, and everyone who was poor before, will be poor again.

Reply to  MarkW
September 17, 2021 5:06 pm

Look at the frequent fate of lottery winners.

SxyxS
Reply to  MarkW
September 17, 2021 6:30 pm

This is kinda natural law.
The 20:80 rule aka Pareto principle.
It says eg that 80% of all stuff is produced by 20% of the people ,
That 20% of people generate 80% of money.
That the top 20% of scientists are responsible for 80% of discoveries.

Reply to  Chris Hanley
September 17, 2021 5:06 pm

Before steam power, cutting down trees for ship’s masts denuded the forests of Great Britain and drove them to buying masts harvested from the Scandinavian forests. If the Age of Sail had lasted much longer, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark would have been denuded as well. Those masts were BIG.

Pauleta
September 17, 2021 3:31 pm

Yes, starting by all MSM organizations. They should be the first ones gone.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  Pauleta
September 17, 2021 4:09 pm

The NYT article is paywalled, nowadays people actually pay good money to read puerile nonsense, apparently.

Jon R
Reply to  Chris Hanley
September 17, 2021 5:10 pm

+1 for use of the word puerile!

markl
September 17, 2021 3:43 pm

Cambodia was a weak effort compared to Mao’s Cultural Revolution. All this “sustainability”, “degrowth” and “wealth redistribution ” is a bunch of crapolla manufactured by pseudo elites designed to control people for the good of a few. You never, never, hear any of them saying what their contribution will be …. because they consider themselves exempt. Now they are called Globalists. What ever happened to news about Venezuela? Did it drop off the face of the earth?

MarkW
September 17, 2021 3:43 pm

Isn’t it amazing how progressives always no exactly what everyone else needs.

H. D. Hoese
September 17, 2021 4:27 pm

I would agree that we are moving too fast, technology seems increasingly to value speed over quality. Nevertheless, –“A necessary, and only apparently paradoxical, result of this [‘equality before the Rule of Law opposite of arbitrary government’] is that formal equality before the law is in conflict, and in fact incompatible, with any activity of the government deliberately aiming at material or substantive equality of different people, and that any policy aiming directly at a substantive ideal of distributive justice must lead to the destruction of the Rule of Law. ” Hayek, The Road to Serfdom, 1944.

September 17, 2021 4:46 pm

You know it’s bad when one group of communists decides another group of communists are beyond the pale.

SxyxS
Reply to  James Schrumpf
September 17, 2021 6:40 pm

There’s always 2 groups of communists.
The deciders who really live in a communist utopia (= capitalist luxury)
and those who are forced to live the real communism(slave of the state)

Sara
Reply to  James Schrumpf
September 18, 2021 6:42 am

Oh, you guys are SO behind the times. Stalin had the right idea: get rid of all military officer who might remotely oppose your methods (I think his total on that was in the neighborhood of 37,000, might have been more) and then get rid of anyone who looked a you cross-eyed. The Gulags were his idea. And push farmers who oppose your agricultural orders off their farms (so they, too stave to death) and install your chosen farmers who, of course, will follow the idiotic natterings of Lysenko. Stalin did, in fact, have an “army” of photo people who retouched photos to eliminated anyone Stalin disapproved of.

Also, if there’s a famine, tough bananas. Mao didn’t care, so why would those who surrounded him? A 10 year drought was all he needed to help him out. He was ruthless, just as was Pol Pot and anyone else who wants All The Power.

Real dictators are ruthless. Communism is just a means of getting there. Didn’t you know that?

John K. Sutherland.
September 17, 2021 4:53 pm

Those who subscribe to this utopian nightmare, must be forced to lead by example as they ‘walk the walk’, and demonstrate its success to the rest of us first…say for about five years.

John K. Sutherland.
Reply to  John K. Sutherland.
September 17, 2021 5:02 pm

The rational answer to most social problems of any kind is ‘Get government, politicians, and lawyers, out of the way of progress.
Their solution is to ban, and control. Mine, is to design something better. It’s already there… it’s called unlimited Nuclear Power. Let’s start there.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 17, 2021 6:24 pm

They hate industrial society, so anything that untainted it is doubleplus ungood.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 18, 2021 3:07 am

But despite their hatred of the production of an industrialized society, they make excellent use of that production! You seldom see them without their high-tech outdoor wear, mobile phones, or other modern wonders.

Sara
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
September 18, 2021 6:52 am

Take that tech gear away from them first of all. Then watch what happens.

Sam Best
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 18, 2021 4:16 pm

Yet most of the posters on wuwt hate peer reviewed science. That’s far worse.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Sam Best
September 18, 2021 5:00 pm

Some “peer reviewed science”, not all. Climate science is nearly Lysenkoism in being political. Most scientists are not PC putos like Mann.

Philo
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 17, 2021 6:25 pm

Nuclear power, widely dispersed and locally controlled would, in the long run, give the best results for a post-modern society. Small groups,up to ~600 people can organize much better and faster than large groups.

2hotel9
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 18, 2021 4:49 am

Fine, most greens should be blocked from using any electricity.

Sara
Reply to  2hotel9
September 18, 2021 7:32 am

Oh, puh-LEEZE put them back into the 18th century for me!!! I really do want to find out if they could even manage making simple rustic bread.

2hotel9
Reply to  Sara
September 19, 2021 4:02 am

These toads could not lift a cast iron dutch oven much less use one. And build a proper fire? That requires basic intelligence, an item they are wholly lacking in.

Sara
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 18, 2021 6:51 am

Just a question, because the hippies who went to the Mother Nature self-sufficiency thingy back in the 1970s weren’t all that numerous:

If the “ideal life style” is being “closer” to the land, being more self-sufficient (raising making your own stuff), and all that other “stuff”, then why aren’t these Greenbeaners putting their silly selves where their mouths are?

They really don’t want to be self-sufficient, do they? No, I don’t think so. When I was in grade school, we had a house on a very large plot of land with plenty of room for a large garden (called a “market garden” now) and we raised all our own food for canning and freezing, as well as chickens, which were also raised for eggs and meat. It was the 1950s, so it was probably a “simpler time”, but it just made sense because none of use little rabble rousers ever went hungry. The last place we lived in, which my parents had bought, had enough room for a half-acre garden and we used it.

So how come, if we could do that, these overbearing know-it-alls can’t?

Just askin’, because I try to understand the peculiar mindset going on in that bunch of loons. They seem to live in some sort of dream world with no idea where food really comes from, so what happens when commercial traffic that delivers their food stops flowing?

2hotel9
Reply to  Sara
September 19, 2021 4:05 am

They are about to find out, driving up the cost of diesel and using these Chinese Disease stupidity to further reduce the number of truck drivers is already crashing the supply chain on the ground, not to mention what their idiotic crap is doing to overseas shipping.

Loren C. Wilson
September 17, 2021 5:05 pm

Let’s start with them. Ask them all to turn in their cars and houses and cell phones and computers and healthcare and restaurants, and everything else that makes life comfortable. they can get a regular job for $12 an hour and ride the bus. I’ll be charitable and only ask them to do so for a year. Then they can decide if they want to continue that lifestyle.

John Robertson
September 17, 2021 5:53 pm

Hate to sound too angry ,but Gang green are the social disease we see them as.
Let run unchecked they will impose their insanity on everyone else.
With exactly the same results as untreated gangrene in a human body.
They have lectured and hectored us for decades,consistently refusing to provide evidence and dismissing the concept of the scientific method and rules of evidence.
Now they attempt to change every thing that works,for their ideas of how things should work.
Delusions of adequacy are a real thing.
Non tool using persons are taught they they can do better work,with superior results than those who build things for a living..
The “educated persons” have never built a thing,never grown a crop and never cooperated with skilled persons to carry a dream through to completion..
Yet they know better than all who have.
This is Gang Green.
Destroyers One and all,mostly because they are too educated to learn anything from this real world.

retribution is in order.
Help this deadly must be rewarded.
We need to split off into two countries.
North America One for the Chattering Class.Parasites and Do-Gooders.
North America Two for the tool users,technology lovers and meat eaters..

With banishment of Gang Green types and assault style politicians to A-1.
The split would be very temporary,as each section of A-2 will be bought up and absorbed by A-2 as bankruptcy,starvation and madness cure the righteous of the ideology.
But these people need to be allowed/forced to live what they seek to impose.
And our children and their children will learn some age old truths,that our Progressive comrades cannot seem to understand.

I would pay good money,to see these people live what they demand,without me subsidizing them.
And the drone footage would be priceless.
A man can dream.

Philo
Reply to  John Robertson
September 17, 2021 6:29 pm

I think you meant A-1 will be bought up. Typo, please edit.

John Robertson
Reply to  Philo
September 17, 2021 9:29 pm

yes sorry i missed that.

Sara
Reply to  John Robertson
September 18, 2021 7:34 am

“I would pay good money,to see these people live what they demand…”

You and me both, Mr. Robertson. You and me both.

And puh-leeze make sure they have zero modern plumbing. Oh, was that mean of me?

eo
September 17, 2021 6:09 pm

The greens have been trying to tinker on the geologic classification by calling our recent period as Anthropocene. The environmental movement has been captured by misanthropists or simply bored, rich, near sighted people who could not think of further progress but the best and only way is down.

I suggest to answer the Anthropocene propaganda to call this age the misanthropic age or the ennui age.

Burgher King
September 17, 2021 6:59 pm

President Biden said today that America has set a goal for our power sector to be carbon free by 2025 and that half of all new cars sold in America in 2030 will be electric vehicles. Yes, he said 2025, he didn’t say 2035.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Burgher King
September 18, 2021 8:36 am

If you ask the Ducks to tell you how many cars were sold in the US in 2020 you will find it was a little over 3.4m but that total sales of cars and light trucks were between 14 and 15m! So car sales were dwarfed by light truck sales.

You will also find that US ownership of EVs at over 1m is half of the world total of 2.1m
(IEA 2020).

Rory Forbes
September 17, 2021 7:18 pm

The real purpose behind “degrowth” and forced downsizing is to extract the money from your pocket and placing it into the ever growing bank accounts of the elite … via the pork stuffed pockets of the politicians promoting it (evidence … the Bidens and Pelosis)

Jim Veenbaas
September 17, 2021 7:38 pm

If this is the best we get from our so-called thought leaders, we are doomed.

September 17, 2021 8:14 pm

The mindset that pushes this “Green dictatorship” stuff is one of mentally illness. It is a psychosis that begets more psychosis, that spreads like a idea virus that leads other mentally ill, like a parent, convinced that Climate Change scam claims are the equivalent of Armageddon, to k1ll her children to keep them from having to endure the climate alarmist bunk claims about a world doomed with 3ºC of warming.

The people who push climate alarmism bunk, people like Seth Borenstein of AP, an alarmism that then encourages the mentally unstable into psychotic outcomes, should be put in jail… and the key thrown away.

Last edited 2 months ago by joelobryan
bonbon
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
September 18, 2021 5:46 am

As Edgar Poe found to his surprise the inmates actually run the institution!
<a href=”https://xroads.virginia.edu/~Hyper/POE/system.html>THE SYSTEM OF DR. TARR AND PROF. FETHER</a>
Fitting that Frantz Fanon, the Pol Pot ideologue was a psychiatrist!

Last edited 2 months ago by bonbon
Abolition Man
September 17, 2021 8:16 pm

With the truths revealed by dissidents like Solzhenitsyn and Sakharov, the horrors leaking out of China, and the fall of the USSR and the Berlin Wall; Western true believers in Marxism found themselves at a crossroads. They could acknowledge that communism was an abject failure, or they could try to find a path to their Utopia by hiding all the flaws inherent in a system that is contrary to human nature!
Academics in the US, Germany and France chose to pursue the latter course; and decades later their neo-Marxist dogma (more a religion than an economic or political system) is close to toppling the West once again as generations of brainwashed and indoctrinated children now believe that socialism is “nicer” than capitalism and free markets! Without ever having experienced the loss of freedom and prosperity that comes with state controlled economies; these children have no idea that they are the willing dupes, or useful idiots, of a cynical elite that doesn’t believe in anything they espouse!
GangGreen, or Climastrology, is just one of the pillars of this doomsday cult religion; with other parts of the tabernacle being built from communist agitprop like BurnLootMurder, Critical Racist Theory, and the sexualization of children that is so de rigueur in our schools today! None of this passes the sniff test; with every part of the Progressive or neo-Marxist catechism falling apart when looked at scientifically! But if you can dumb down enough people by teaching them WHAT to think, rather than HOW to think; you can reach a point where the masses will accept masks and vaccines that don’t work without complaint!
There appears to be some stirring of rebellion against this de facto state religion; as many parents discovered with horror what their kids were being taught during the lockdowns. But if we do not recognize the religious aspects of Progressivism, and demand that it not be taught in public schools, we will lose the battle for civilization and enter a new and darker age!

Last edited 2 months ago by Abolition Man
Mark Smith
September 17, 2021 8:47 pm

A low carbon society is devolving back to preindustrial society. Goodbye moden society in the main. Hello mzlnutrition, disease, ….

Reply to  Mark Smith
September 17, 2021 9:34 pm

Harsh, brutish, and short are the correct descriptor terms of 99% of the average human’s existence before fossil fuels powered the Industrial Revolution.

Sara
Reply to  Mark Smith
September 18, 2021 7:57 am

This is exactly why I have been buying the reproductions of Very Olde Cookbookes. Anything prior to 1910, when more modern kitchen equipment was in the early engineering stages, is worth having on your bookshelf. That’s not a joke, not any more.

mcswelll
September 17, 2021 9:25 pm

Not so fast with the nixing–I could get behind a ban on advertising. I can’t think of a single instance where it has helped me, and I wouldn’t mind extending Lady Bird Johnson’s push to eliminate billboards. (I almost wrote ‘bullboards’ because that’s what I think they are.) I already have Ad Blocker in my browser, let’s hear it for Ad Blocker everywhere!

saveenergy
September 17, 2021 11:03 pm

MODS.
What have I done wrong ???
Every post I make now goes to ‘Awaiting for approval’ & then is never seen again.!!
Please take me off the naughty step (& tell me why I was put there … you have my email ) thanks.

(Have no idea, your account looks clean to me, approved the other comments) SUNMOD

Last edited 2 months ago by saveenergy
griff
September 18, 2021 12:45 am

I don’t see any reason to shrink the economy to make it green/renewable… there are plenty of jobs, plenty of investment needed in changing the world economy.

Germany has reached 50% renewable electricity: lifestyle much better than most of the US.

Sara
Reply to  griff
September 18, 2021 7:51 am

For once, griff, I will agree with you that shrinking the economy of any country for any reason is a bad idea.

Robert Hanson
Reply to  griff
September 18, 2021 3:53 pm

And that 50% works for hours at a time, when the sun is out and the wind blows. Followed by times like now, when the winds aren’t blowing, the price of electricity has gone sky high, and the grid itself is in danger of imploding. Which is only going to get much worse as more and more FF power plants are slated to be closed down. Funny that you didn’t mention that part.

And the myth that Germans and Scandinavians and the like live “much better than us” is pure bunk.

Rod Evans
September 18, 2021 2:30 am

The anarchists, aka climate alarmists have now reached a level of control they believe they can advance deconstruction of stable society with confidence and impunity.
We live in dangerous times, sadly too few people realise it.

willem post
September 18, 2021 2:45 am

The world-wide, COVID-induced, economic slump reduced calculated CO2 (billion metric ton), but the atmospheric CO2 continued upward trends (CO2 molecules/million molecules)

Also, the Roman Warm Period, which gave rise to the Roman Empire (warmer than at present), the Medieval Warm Period, and the Little Ice Age occurred while atmospheric CO2 remained about the same.

What could have caused these worldwide changes, if CO2 was not a factor?

I keep asking, because no one has provided a plausible answer.

The hyper-political IPCC actually denied the LIA existed, some years ago.
It claimed “Oh, that was just a European issue”, until word came from all over the world that they experienced the LIA as well.

If the IPCC could lie regarding that issue, what other lies does it lie/obfuscate, and who are its facilitators?

Adage: No lie travels without facilitators, aka gossip

Sam Best
Reply to  willem post
September 20, 2021 4:17 am

neither the Roman wp, the MWP, nor the LIA were global synchronized warm periods. They were merely local.

Chuck no longer in Houston
Reply to  Sam Best
September 21, 2021 9:05 am

I don’t believe this is true of either period. From the various records I’ve seen these were both more than local periods. Do you have any way to back these statements up?

Serge Wright
September 18, 2021 3:56 am

““Americans might well find themselves happier and more secure in an ultra-low-carbon communal economy”

No, they won’t be happy living in an impoverished world without hope and where everyone is only one falsely uttered word away from imprisonment. Only the elite ruling class will be happy, living a life of luxury off the backs of the peasant slaves.

What we need is for the establishment of a new breakaway state where conservative western values are guaranteed and Marxism is banned for eternity.

Michael S. Kelly
September 18, 2021 3:57 am

Awesome! No more advertising = no more Google! I can’t think of a Greener tomorrow!

2hotel9
September 18, 2021 4:53 am

Got no problem with degrowth, we start with the people who are calling for it. Put them in “reservations”, for their own protection of course, where they can sit down and starve. This removes them from the climate thus saving the planet. The rest of us can just move on with our lives. Problems all solved.

bonbon
September 18, 2021 5:18 am

See Frantz Fanon – ‘The Wretched of the Earth’ for the roots of Pol Pot.The same pessimism as Sartre, Nietzsche, Heidegger. Fanon was actually CIA, hailed from the Sorbonne.
In other words this pessimism, actually taught in the Uni’s, is what gave us WWII, Pol Pot, Kabila, and now the left.
As Heinrich Heine well documented these Romantic Movements are all traced to Kant, that hero of Academia. See Religion and philosophy in Germany :
https://archive.org/details/religionandphilo00heinuoft

Kant, as Heine notes, the omnipulveriser, took it upon himself to kill God, long before Nietzsche… Look at the result!

Teddy Lee
September 18, 2021 5:41 am

Surely, Spencer can find a few hundred million AGW enthusiasts,to join his cause. They could hardly refuse. They could live the blob life.The rest of us can remain living the life we have now.
In time,Spencer,hopefully may be able to garner more support,possibly up to a couple of billion.Their sacrifice would save the planet and we in turn would give our undying gratitude.

Mickey Reno
September 18, 2021 7:58 am

Jason Hickle, I sentence you to watch “Soylent Green” until you have a cognition.

September 18, 2021 8:16 am

Why do they ignore the hard evidence that the more developed countries have negative population growth?
Do what it takes to facilitate undeveloped countries ability to reach a sustainable economy and the problem goes away.

Bruce Cobb
September 18, 2021 8:40 am

The truth is that they can do both – grow the so-called “green” economy while also “de-growthing” the economy. The trick is, while spurring the “green” economy, as with the “Green New Deal”, (or whatever feel-good phrase they have for it now) to pretend to be growing the economy, and providing “millions of jobs”. It is a huge scam, that’s all.

gbaikie
September 18, 2021 1:36 pm

US should rapidly increase growth and have a lot more legal immigration.
Fix all global problems by taking away people who oppressed by all shithole countries.

How could US do this without causing too much domestic problems?
Make a lot of low income housing in the ocean.
Some people have claimed that ocean settlements would cheaper or better than settlements
on Mars. This is wrong. But it’s likely if we get human settlements on Mars, we will also get
ocean settlements on Earth.
Or to handle the traffic to Mars, we would have launch rockets to Mars, from the Earth’s oceans. Elon Musk wants to launch 3 rockets per launch pad per day. If one was launching 1 rocket from earth surface per day, you should be launching from the ocean.
If you only one rocket launch from anywhere on the ocean per day, one will probably start Ocean settlements. And this could start within 10 years.
What suggest is ocean settlements within coastal regions, and one focus is to make low cost
residential housing. So idea is NOT to have a million people living in the ocean within say 10 years, rather idea is to go in that direction so than 1 million people living in the ocean within
50 years. And possible that within 50 years one will have 1 million people living in the ocean whether whether begin now or don’t. Or would good to be “world leaders” in ocean settlements, in same way we want to be world leaders in regards using the space environment. Or there no sense being flat footed about it.

gbaikie
Reply to  gbaikie
September 18, 2021 1:49 pm

Not that I am big fan of low carbon footprints, but I think ocean settlements could have a much lower carbon footprint.
And it’s beach living which is better than current beach living.

ResourceGuy
September 18, 2021 2:06 pm

Guardian wanna be writing at the NYT

Sam Best
September 18, 2021 4:03 pm

The article by Worrall is one long straw man. Good policy doesn’t do anything like he suggests: https://citizensclimatelobby.org/price-on-carbon/

kramer
September 19, 2021 5:02 pm

The article says:
“Even in the United States, which has embraced no such policy, G.D.P. growth has slowed in the past two decades, largely because of falling birthrates and a switch in spending patterns from goods to services.”

My dem (a donkey term often used)…

The reason our GDP dropped over the past 2 decades is because we gave China PNTR (permanent normalized trade relations) at the end of 2000.

Clinton was initially against it but he and the DNC ended up receiving illegal contributions from the communist Chinese government. He later changed his mind and was for it. IMO, this change of mind was political payback for those contributions.

After we gave China PNTR, we lost over a 3rd of our mfg jobs (the largest ever drop in US mfg jobs in recored history). THIS is why our GDP slowed.
(see MANEMP graph at the st louis federal reserve site).

In addition, most graphs of China’s CO2 emissions show them turning sharply upward right after we gave them PNTR. They increased because our jobs were moving there and because they were building new factories and infrastructure for the jobs coming their way.

Clinton SCREWED this country by what appears to be payback to the communists illegal donations with PNTR.

In addition, the majority Republican congress approved PNTR so it was a bipartisan cluster-eff. Why the Republicans signed it is beyond me, I have never read of them receiving illegal contributions from the communist Chinese.

Last edited 2 months ago by kramer
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