IFA1 French British Undersea Cable. Source GetLinkGroup, Fair Use, Low Resolution Image to Identify the Subject

Renewable Britain Undersea Cable Failure Sends Electricity Prices Soaring

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

h/t Observa; Britain may face the embarrassment of being forced to ramp up coal power during Glasgow COP26, as a critical undersea cable failure has cut the ability of imported French nuclear power to help maintain the fantasy that Britain’s renewable heavy electricity grid is fit for purpose.

Power prices soar after key electricity cable between UK and France catches fire

British electricity prices jumped by 19 per cent to £475 per megawatt hour on Wednesday.

Holly Bancroft

A key electricity cable between Britain and France has been shut down after a fire, sending wholesale prices soaring. 

The fire will reduce imports from France until the end of March 2022, the National Grid has warned. 

They said the blaze broke out on Wednesday while planned maintenance was taking place at the site near Ashford in Kent. 

Prices of natural gas, which have already been at record highs in recent weeks, soared more than 18 per cent at the news.

British electricity prices meanwhile jumped by 19 per cent to £475 per megawatt hour on Wednesday.

The IFA1 interconnector had been used to import electricity, generated largely by nuclear power, from France.

… 

Glenn Rickson, head of European power analysis at S&P Global Platts Analytics, said the fire “couldn’t come at a worse time for the UK”. 

Read more: https://www.independent.co.uk/business/energy-prices-france-uk-fire-b1921154.html

This new PR and energy supply disaster comes hot on the heels of recent claims that Britain withdrew hardline climate demands in the free trade agreement being negotiated with Australia.

What can I say BoJo – despite your harsh words and attempted bullying, Australia stands ready to deliver all the coal you need for Britain to stay warm and keep the lights on this winter.

Or you can do what China allegedly does, since they tried to punish Australia by blocking some of our imports – covertly buy Aussie coal through secondary markets, to avoid the embarrassment and loss of face of admitting you can’t live without our coal exports. I hear Singapore provides a discreet service and reasonable fees. If you pay a little extra, they might even relabel the coal shipments as “wood chips”.

BoJo, you better get your order in quickly. Goldman Sachs just forecast an imminent global coal supply crunch which could almost double already sky high current world prices.

On a serious note, my heart goes out to Britons who will be caught by skyrocketing energy prices. But there is still time to avert the worst of this crisis. Write to your MP and demand they produce a rational plan for maintaining reliable and affordable electricity supplies this winter.

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Ebor
September 16, 2021 6:05 am

Boy, reality can really be uncomfortable can’t it?

Ron Long
Reply to  Ebor
September 16, 2021 7:06 am

Especially when it bites you in the a$$ and won’t let go.

Reply to  Ron Long
September 16, 2021 11:52 am

Seems to be SPAM

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Ron Long
September 16, 2021 12:01 pm

MODS – ban this guy for this crap

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom in Florida
MarkW
Reply to  Tom in Florida
September 16, 2021 12:15 pm

The problem is that this same message keeps popping up, each day with a new name.

Fraizer
Reply to  Ron Long
September 16, 2021 12:12 pm

Anthony Watts:

Using your name in hopes it flags this comment. Richard Hoard is spamming across multiple articles.

James Bull
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 18, 2021 7:31 am

Here’s your answer!!!!!

James Bull

Joao Martins
Reply to  Ebor
September 16, 2021 7:23 am

… trying to predict what is unpredictable (climate change), incapable of predicting what is predicatble (erroneous calculations in engineering projects): is this what now is called “science based society”?

ResourceGuy
Reply to  Joao Martins
September 16, 2021 8:49 am

Swapping and adding a few key words does explain things nicely. Add the words agenda science, swap engineering for lobbyist, and stir in tax credits and other incentives to get the clear story.

n.n
Reply to  Joao Martins
September 16, 2021 2:24 pm

Modern or post-normal science is brought forward by the same people… persons, groups, congregations, corporations that normalize a belief that sex and conception is a mystery that defies a woman and man’s comprehension, and that a wicked solution to a purportedly hard problem is a good choice. One step forward, two steps backward.

Last edited 1 month ago by n.n
Joao Martins
Reply to  n.n
September 17, 2021 8:24 am

“post-normal science” is either abnormal science or no science at all (i.e., a means to facilitate arriving at a political decision and at its “justification” in public relations terms).

Reply to  Joao Martins
September 16, 2021 4:44 pm

Joao wrote: … trying to predict what is unpredictable (climate change), incapable of predicting what is predicatble (erroneous calculations in engineering projects): is this what now is called “science based society”?

Actually Joao, our predictions are “spot on” to date- going all the way back to 2002 – this one is from 2013. I use my two engineering degrees, logic, quality data and a Ouija board.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/31/blind-faith-in-climate-models/#comment-1130954

An Open Letter to Baroness Verma, October 31, 2013, by Allan MacRae
[excerpt]
So here is my real concern:
IF the Sun does indeed drive temperature, as I suspect, Baroness Verma, then you and your colleagues on both sides of the House may have brewed the perfect storm.
You are claiming that global cooling will NOT happen, AND you have crippled your energy systems with excessive reliance on ineffective grid-connected “green energy” schemes.
I suggest that global cooling probably WILL happen within the next decade or sooner, and Britain will get colder.
I also suggest that the IPCC and the Met Office have NO track record of successful prediction (or “projection”) of global temperature and thus have no scientific credibility.
I suggest that Winter deaths will increase in the UK as cooling progresses.
I suggest that Excess Winter Mortality, the British rate of which is about double the rate in the Scandinavian countries, should provide an estimate of this unfolding tragedy.
As always in these matters, I hope to be wrong. These are not numbers, they are real people, who “loved and were loved”.
Best regards to all, Allan MacRae
“Turning and tuning in the widening gyre, the falcon cannot hear the falconer…” Yeats
________________________________
 
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/27/the-real-climate-crisis-is-not-global-warming-it-is-cooling-and-it-may-have-already-started/#comment-2835920
 
Well, there is the perfect Trifecta – my work here is done:
 
In 2002 co-authors Dr Sallie Baliunas, Astrophysicist, Harvard-Smithsonian, Dr Tim Patterson, Paleoclimatologist, Carleton, Ottawa and Allan MacRae wrote:
http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/KyotoAPEGA2002REV1.pdf
 
1. “Climate science does not support the theory of catastrophic human-made global warming – the alleged warming crisis does not exist.”
 
2. “The ultimate agenda of pro-Kyoto advocates is to eliminate fossil fuels, but this would result in a catastrophic shortfall in global energy supply – the wasteful, inefficient energy solutions proposed by Kyoto advocates simply cannot replace fossil fuels.”
 
Allan MacRae published on September 1, 2002, based on a conversation with Dr. Tim Patterson:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/10/polar-sea-ice-changes-are-having-a-net-cooling-effect-on-the-climate/#comment-63579
 
3. “If [as we believe] solar activity is the main driver of surface temperature rather than CO2, we should begin the next cooling period by 2020 to 2030.”
 
MacRae modified his global cooling prediction in 2013, or earlier:
3a. “I suggest global cooling starts by 2020 or sooner. Bundle up.”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/02/study-predicts-the-sun-is-headed-for-a-dalton-like-solar-minimum-around-2050/#comment-1147149
[excerpt]

See electroverse.net for extreme-cold events all over our planet.

Joao Martins
Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
September 17, 2021 4:11 am

Thank you Allan, I know your work and I was not referring to it. It is unfortunate that decision-makers are unable to tell a good, well researched work from some public relations verbiage that have crying reasoning mistakes all over the place. The last are the ones I was referring to, your work has been greatly inspiring.

Reply to  Joao Martins
September 18, 2021 3:58 pm

Wow! Thank you Joao!

ResourceGuy
Reply to  Ebor
September 16, 2021 12:59 pm

Where dogma meets frostbite

BobM
September 16, 2021 6:06 am

“Write to your MP and demand they produce a rational plan for maintaining reliable and affordable electricity supplies this winter.”

“Write to your MP and demand they produce a rational plan for maintaining reliable and affordable electricity supplies.” – Fixed it.

September 16, 2021 6:07 am

Oh well, the UK is not quite at the pitchforks and torches level of civil unrest—yet.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 16, 2021 8:58 am

Trust me, we’re getting there!!!! My list of Greenalist ruling elites is steadily growing, I’m grinding my axe on the sharpener, driving several nails into my heavy wooden club, oh how this will make the French Revolution look like a Sunday afternoon picnic!!!!! In the words of the 10cc hit, Rubber Bullets, “blood will flow”!!!!! Many of us have literally had enough!!! The only peeps who don’t give a tinker’s cuss about the environment, are the environmentalists!!! Isn’t Socialism grand??? Millions of Humans butchered & slaughtered throughout the 20th century in its name, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol-Pot, Gore, Obama, Biden, ( the last three all indirectly) they ALL made their squillions on such politics, life means nothing to them, just as the climate means nothing to them, it’s merely a means to an end!!! Oh & wasn’t Gore the Vice-President of some bloke called Clinton, who went on national tv & lied to millions of American people, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman!” quote unquote!!! How many squillions is he worth now, a lying lawyer??? No wonder America gave Hilary the elbow, who wants the wife of a lying President in the White House???

AndyHce
Reply to  Alan the Brit
September 16, 2021 1:53 pm

If any revolt to this nonsense ever actually happens, it will be a race between mass organization and midnight door kicking down visits.

MarkW
Reply to  Alan the Brit
September 16, 2021 8:04 pm

According to recently de-classified documents revealed in an indictment today, Obama’s FBI director told Obama in a briefing, that the FBI had proof that the Russian dossier that started the whole Russian collusion fiasco, had originated from the Hillary campaign and that Hillary not only knew about it, but initiated it.

H.R.
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 16, 2021 10:17 am

Pitchfork futures are UP!

Tom in Florida
Reply to  H.R.
September 16, 2021 12:02 pm

So are torches and heavy braided rope.

Sparko
Reply to  H.R.
September 16, 2021 12:53 pm

Visited Berlin some years ago. struck by the lack of mature trees,I project that Axe and chainsaw futures are up as well.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 16, 2021 12:26 pm

Wanna bet?

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Tom Halla
September 16, 2021 9:33 pm

The last time there was significant unrest in the UK, London specifically, was when Thatcher introduced the poll tax.

MarkW
September 16, 2021 6:10 am

If Britain had a reliable source of electric power, this problem would be nothing more than a glitch.

bill Johnston
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 6:59 am

I guess home-grown power is the best.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  bill Johnston
September 16, 2021 9:05 am

I have no desire to harp back to the days of Empire, (not the British one, we gave it back), but history has shown that previous empires came to grief by importing things, like men & slaves in the case of the Roman empire to fill the ranks of legions & serve the wealthy elites, because more & more Romans wanted to duck their version of national service!!! So yes, home-grown power is the best, rely too much on others, will cause your downfall!!! Under Tony Bliar, (lawyer/liar are very similar) we gave our nuclear industry away to the Japanese for a pittance, we used to lead the world in nuclear science, now we’re pretty much finished!!!

trailer trash
Reply to  Alan the Brit
September 16, 2021 10:34 am

“we used to lead the world in nuclear science”

Would that include leading the world in nuclear disasters?

“Sellafield was the site in 1957 of one of the world’s worst nuclear incidents. This was the Windscale fire which occurred when uranium metal fuel ignited inside Windscale Pile no.1. Radioactive contamination was released into the environment. … The incident was rated 5 out of a possible 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale

[from Wikipedia]

CapitalistRoader
Reply to  trailer trash
September 16, 2021 2:43 pm

1957 was really early days for nuclear power. From your Wikipedia link:

Estimated 100 to 240 cancer fatalities in the long term

Five years earlier there was another power-related tragedy:

Great Smog of London
The Great Smog of London, or Great Smog of 1952, was a severe air pollution event that affected London, England, in December 1952. A period of unusually cold weather, combined with an anticyclone and windless conditions, collected airborne pollutants—mostly arising from the use of coal—to form a thick layer of smog over the city. It lasted from Friday 5 December to Tuesday 9 December 1952…

4,000 killed · 100,000 injured
(1952 government estimate)
10,000–12,000 killed
(modern estimates)

[from Wikipedia]

trailer trash
Reply to  CapitalistRoader
September 18, 2021 11:19 am

Smog deaths from coal are irrelevant to a discussion of nuclear power. There are many ways to heat homes besides coal and electricity generated by boiling water with radioactive materials.

If one continues a bit further into the Wiki article:

“The event was not an isolated incident; there had been a series of radioactive discharges from the piles in the years leading up to the accident.[7] In the Spring of 1957, only months before the fire, there was a leak of radioactive material in which dangerous strontium-90 isotopes were released into the environment”

Six decades after the disaster:

“Approximately 6,700 fire-damaged fuel elements and 1,700 fire-damaged isotope cartridges remain in the pile.”

Who is going to be guarding this and all the other dangerous nuclear sites around the world for the next 24,100 years? (half-life of plutonium)

CapitalistRoader
Reply to  trailer trash
September 18, 2021 1:30 pm

At this point, natural gas is the best source energy for generating electricity in the majority of the US.

However, you make a good case for thorium reactors:

There is up to two orders of magnitude less of nuclear waste in the liquid fluoride thorium reactor, eliminating the need for large scale and long term storage for the waste. [2] This is because the Thorium-Uranium fuel cycle does not irradiate U-238, so it does not produce atoms bigger than uranium. Furthermore it takes a couple hundred of years for the radioactivity of the waste to drop to safe levels, whereas it take tens of thousands of years for current nuclear waste to drop to safe level.

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2015/ph240/ting1/

trailer trash
Reply to  CapitalistRoader
September 18, 2021 2:29 pm

Yes on natural gas, especially when drillers properly seal the well at the end of its life. There are thousands of abandoned wells. It would be in the industry’s interest to clean them up, but profits come first.

The molten salt based reactors sound great in theory. If only we had the metallurgy to contain the stuff at operating temperatures and pressures and resist corrosion. I noticed the Stanford citation overlooks the corrosion problem.

Steve Z
Reply to  Alan the Brit
September 16, 2021 2:49 pm

In the USA we’re now “coming to grief” by importing computer chips for our cars and antibiotics from China, instead of making them ourselves. So when China sent us the Wuhan Flu, bought and paid for by Dr. Fauci, we were caught unprepared.

Reply to  Steve Z
September 16, 2021 6:21 pm

Most of our chips, and the world’s for that matter outside China, for embedded device processing in everything from autos to appliances comes from Taiwan.

H B
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
September 16, 2021 9:57 pm

And if the CCP invades there will be a bucket of thermite pored over the essential kit and ignited

Ron Long
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 7:09 am

I went through ascending management experience, including “charm school” (my friends laugh when I mention this, I have no idea why), and the thing that stuck with me was this: All substantial undertakings must have a serious review of The Critical Path and The Fatal Flaws. Sadly, this has been replaced by an analysis of social justice, whatever that is.

MarkW
Reply to  Ron Long
September 16, 2021 7:44 am

In my experience, anytime you find “social” being used as a modifier, it can be replaced with “not” and still have the same meaning.
Social justice becomes, not justice.
Social science becomes, not science.

And so on

pHil R
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 8:45 am

Heh, that’s like the Chinese fortune cookie…you can add the words “in bed” to the end of any fortune.

BobM
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 10:38 am

Include “climate”.

Climate science becomes, not science.

DonM
Reply to  Ron Long
September 16, 2021 8:27 am

“sustainability”.

Sustainability was the tool before social justice. And it is still used as a tool. Not enough of the useful idiots jumped on the sustainability bandwagon, so the less intelligent useful idiots were roped in with ‘social justice’ jargon.

Both have differing meanings to everyone. That’s what the ‘they’ do … they take advantage of the pliable useful idiots by using variable language & terms.

‘Social sustainability’ … that’s a thing that can be used for anything.

Reply to  Ron Long
September 16, 2021 6:24 pm

Single point failure, risk analyses, and critical path engineering analyses have all been replaced by happy thinking and good intentions with political Liberals running the US. There is no other way to explain the totally stuupid wind power build out in the US, including Texas.

Leo Smith
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 8:55 am

Apart from the high prices it is no more than a glitch – for now. If world wide gas had been cheaper and more available, or if gas storage facilities had not been shut down to save money, it would have been.
The real issues will happen in Jan/Feb when demand is 10GW higher…

Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 9:26 am

They would have to recognize that wind and solar are the least green and also the most expensive of renewable energies.

Philo
Reply to  Charles Higley
September 16, 2021 11:20 am

I think, unfortunately, Britain doesn’t have any “green” options except importing coal and re-starting as many coal plants.

Reply to  Philo
September 16, 2021 1:41 pm

Philo,
I’m not sure that the UK can restart coal fired plants.
In the name of the great God Green [for the few], so many have been destroyed.
Not mothballed, destroyed.

Makes the coming winter a bit problematic.
I live inside the M25, and I have candles.

Auto

ResourceGuy
September 16, 2021 6:11 am

Better hook up the climate protesters to treadmill generators and mouse cages. This looks serious, unlike the protesters. Putin might break a rib from laughing so hard.

griff
September 16, 2021 6:19 am

Well we have another 7 HVDC cables in the planning/build stages.

UK used coal power last summer too, when as now there was plant offline for summer scheduled maintenance. Before this month we went 55 days with no coal power at all

MarkW
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 6:33 am

It’s amazing how hard the alarmists work to hide the fact that wind and solar just don’t work.
BTW, the only reason why you were able to do without coal, was all of the natural gas and nuclear plants were running flat out.

Vuk
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 8:05 am

Griffo just got read of his gas cooker and gas boiler, gone fully solar with solar paneled shed roof (his house roof is shaded by a centuries old TPO oak tree, as a greeny he would not touch it anyway), and now is hoping to make fortune this winter by selling electricity back to the big electricity utilities. I believe he is somwere near Manchester (it always rains there, so I’m told) with the Dec/Jan about 4h of daylight. Just do as Griffo does and says.

Russ Wood
Reply to  Vuk
September 16, 2021 8:49 am

I lived in Manchester at the start of my working life. All that needs to be said about the ‘rainy city’ was summed up by a job board outside a factory: “Wanted – waterproof machinists”. Doesn’t say much about the working conditions, does it?

Editor
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 6:40 am

Are you saying those planned Cables are planned to ONLY be connected to Solar and Wind generating plants?

Last edited 1 month ago by Sunsettommy
HotScot
Reply to  Sunsettommy
September 16, 2021 6:52 am

Solar and Wind generating plants, which have yet to be built.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  HotScot
September 16, 2021 9:09 am

“Solar and Wind landscape destroying plants, which have yet to be built”.

There fixed!!! 😉

nyolci
Reply to  Sunsettommy
September 16, 2021 7:49 am

Are you saying those planned Cables are planned to ONLY be connected to Solar and Wind generating plants?

No. FYI the “Renewable” in the title comes from Eric, ie. this is simple bs or propaganda on his part.

Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 8:01 am

The comment of Sunsettommy was a question, not seen ? The relation to the title you didn’t understand

Last edited 1 month ago by Krishna Gans
nyolci
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 8:20 am

Yes, and I gave the answer (“No”). Furthermore, he seems to be confused about these cable thingies so I helped him with a little bit of background.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 8:04 am

You have s.th. like an minor idea what HVDC cables mean ?

nyolci
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 8:24 am

Yes. High Voltage Directed Current. The most lossless way to carry electrical energy. Currently China is the leader here, and I think this fact itself is a good lesson to us (EU citizens). Even Brazil is ahead of us. And yes, if we have a good and broad High Voltage network with smart network control, that would have the additional benefit of alleviating a lot of the uncertainties of renewables. You know the wind is always blowing somewhere. Hope you know… BTW this network has a high initial cost but it’s minuscule compared to – say – military spending.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 8:47 am

Windparcs like HVDC connections 😀
And thanks to the failure of the undersea cable, the grid with renewables have to demonstrate their ability.
Now you may see why Eric talkd about “renewables”.

nyolci
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 9:19 am

Windparcs like HVDC connections

Yeah. Together with anything else. Eric had to produce a hit piece so he “smuggled” the word “renewable” in the headline. Even the cited text says this: “import electricity, generated largely by nuclear power”. Congratulations.

Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 10:22 am

as a critical undersea cable failure has cut the ability of imported French nuclear power to help maintain the fantasy that Britain’s renewable heavy electricity grid is fit for purpose.

Problems with understanding ? 100% ! 😀
I explained it above :D:D

nyolci
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 10:36 am

power to help

🙂 this is not the cited text, this is Eric’s addition. Read the actual quote please. All in all:
Problems with understanding? 100%! 😀

Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 11:02 am

It’s his correcct interpretation, formulated as the text of the actual articel I cited, not from th headline 😀
All correct, you may like it or not, but who cares 😀

nyolci
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 11:10 am

It’s his correcct interpretation

Okay, so we agree this was his addition. Whether correct or not. In turn, I have a question: what is a “renewable […] cable”? Have you ever heard of it? Pls don’t forget we are talking about a cable that is used to transport mostly nuclear energy (70%). And before you start to bullshit about the rest, well, we don’t know.

Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 11:56 am

Okay, so we agree this was his addition.
Who said otherwise ? No one. 😀
Erics article included an other one, difficul t for you ?

Renewable cable seems to be a cable to be replaced by a new one. 😀

Last edited 1 month ago by Krishna Gans
nyolci
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 12:15 pm

Renewable cable seems to be a cable to be replaced by a new one. 😀

This was a clumsy attempt at being sarcastic, right? 🙂

Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:33 pm

Quien sabe 😀 ?

Lrp
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 9:58 am

You are making basic language comprehension mistakes; no wonder you are so angry and argumentative.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 12:31 pm

Article within an article is s.th like a song within a song:

Last edited 1 month ago by Krishna Gans
Jim Gorman
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:19 pm

It is used to transport electromagnetic energy. It doesn’t really matter where the energy comes from. The whole point is that GB renewables can not meet demand by themselves without fossil fuel backup.

Leo Smith
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 8:59 am

Pure delusion as usual
The cost of a (high voltage direct current) interconnector to ‘where the wind is actually blowing hard enough‘ exceeds the cost of a local nuclear power staion.

And as can be seen, interconnectors canb go down..

nyolci
Reply to  Leo Smith
September 16, 2021 9:39 am

The cost of a (high voltage direct current) interconnector

How much? 🙂 In China, the first HVDC line had a cost of USD3.6b for the length of 2100 km. China is known for aggressively reducing costs via scaling, furthermore they have “rough” terrain in most of the country where they may produce electricity, so my guess is that this cost can be reduced tremendously.

exceeds the cost of a local nuclear power staion.

“station” is the correct word. The cost for a 2.4 GW Russian power “staion” is cc EUR 12b. The Western models cost around 30b in the same output range. All in all, it looks much cheaper to build lines instead of building nuclear power stations everywhere.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 11:07 am

Climate is the excuse and mechanism for doing the end run around ratepayers and taxpayers on the cost of transmission lines to nowhere.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 9:12 am

Direct Current.
It really is amazing how many things you think yourself an expert in.

The wind may always be blowing somewhere, but if that “somewhere” is thousands of miles away, it is of no value.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 9:22 am

Direct Current.

Oops, a Hungarism surfaced again… (The DC-converter is called “unidirector”, and the output is “unidirected current”)

how many things you think yourself an expert in.

Well, this is actually my (broader) field.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 10:55 am

Then you should know dc particularly when stressed produces heat, it was not the cable that caught fire it was the sub station on uk soil that set of fire ,the operators drew touch much current that the sub station could not handle,

Why did they do that, because of you and people like you winging ” were burning coal” congratulations now we will be burning a lot more coal.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 11:15 am

the operators drew touch much current

Khm, “while planned maintenance was taking place”. Look, Lil B, everyone can bullshit. But only a few can bullshit well. You have a long way to go.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 11:24 am

Wrong again the maintaince was used as a excuse to justify how long the sub station is off line ,

I see you fudge the reason the sub station burnt ,it was because they drew to much current desperation boy ,like you.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 12:17 pm

Wrong again the maintaince was used as a excuse

Again, bullshiting well is an art.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:20 pm

Well you should know.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 12:34 pm

Well you should know.

Clumsy. Now you convey the impression you’re a sore loser. If you had come up with it at the first chance, it would’ve been an acceptable riposte. See? You shouldn’t have doubled down on your bullshit. Take it as lesson 1.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:38 pm

Your a waste of space resorting to foul language who has no argument. First class bullshitter ,who avoids the substance of the accusation.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 12:50 pm

Your a waste of space resorting

Now you definitely look like a sore loser. If you can’t answer well, don’t answer. This is lesson 2. The other guys now know this (except for Krishna, he is a slow learner). By the way, if you’re ranting in a situation like this, that’s even worse. This was lesson 3.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:52 pm

Answer what?

TonyG
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 3:43 pm

Your a waste of space resorting to foul language who has no argument

Funny how I had no context for that comment and yet I knew exactly who you were talking to. Nothing new here.

B Clarke
Reply to  TonyG
September 16, 2021 3:48 pm

👍

Iain Reid
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 11:42 pm

Mr Clarke,

are you suggesting that the operators over rode the very sensitive protection systems that prevent what you call ‘a touch too much’
All electrical systems use protective devices (even your home), and HVDC due to it’s incapacity to withstand overcurrent situations are set to trip very quickly in such an event, much more so than conventional A.C. equipment.
I don’t know where you got the idea that it was wilful over loading the system?

B Clarke
Reply to  Iain Reid
September 17, 2021 1:24 am

Yes to a degree, you say ” due to its incapacity to withstand overcurrent situations” thats correct it set on fire ,I’ve already explained the political reason why they would want to draw as much current as possible EG if one OR more saftey elements are bypassed to allow a higher flow, a not so familiar/ untried fix might end in disaster, which it seems did happen,

Bad press you know ,burning coal on the run up to cop 26 ,let’s try and screw every last amp out of the interconnectors.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 17, 2021 4:07 am

In other word, what you say is pure speculation, right? Furthermore, why an electricity distributor is concerned with bad press? This episode means a 6 month outage, equipment loss, and lost income from this station. Because they wanted to avoid bad press in a topic that is not even their immediate field? National Grid is concerned with power distribution not with power production, you genius.

Leo Smith
Reply to  B Clarke
September 17, 2021 8:33 pm

the maintenance was scheduled months in advance

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:20 pm

When it comes to bullshitting well, no one takes a back seat to you.

In what passes for your mind, you honestly believe that they can’t be drawing power if maintenance is going on?

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 12:46 pm

you honestly believe that they can’t be drawing power if maintenance is going on?

Well, I think the chances are very well against something this B guy (who looks quite clueless) has just pulled out of his ass. FYI his explanation is extremely unlikely, these installations are designed so that in normal use the circuit breaker (and other control circuitry) activates well before overheating can cause fire. However, a short circuit may be able to heat up cabling suddenly, or cause sparks, etc before the circuit breaker activates. BTW, short circuit is the most common fire hazard associated with electrical equipment, and this is completely plausible during maintenance.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:05 pm

A circuit breaker breaks because of a excess of current not heat,

If it does not break then excess heat causes a fire ,it does not break because its faulty.

Your a complete idiot who has no understanding of what your talking about,

The system is designed to operate within certain specific parameters, it clearly was drawing to much current than it was designed to cope with , coupled with a failed cb a fire broke out,

It should never of been drawing to much current in the first place.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 1:38 pm

A circuit breaker breaks because of a excess of current not heat,

Heat comes from current. Please don’t dig your own grave.

it does not break because its faulty

Again, you should be much better in making up bullshit.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:45 pm

You have no comprehension of basic electrical installations current does not generate heat unless the draw is excessive and the cable,switch gear is underrated, I’ve already told you this,

Your just compounding the idiot you are .

whiten
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 2:55 pm

B Clarke,

Also there still could be a vast amount of heat in an electrical installation generated when a steady HV increase surge occurs between each of the three lines with earthing.

Usually and normally this is very rare and happens due to “faulty” essential line connectors.
Aka faulty and careless operation of an essential connector by the operator of the grid in a given circumstance.
Like for example in the circumstance of a careless rushy powering down or lowering the load on the connector when one side is considerably unstable versus the other side of the connector.

🙂

cheers

B Clarke
Reply to  whiten
September 16, 2021 4:44 pm

Its likely, my belief is the current draw was greatly beyond the design limits, humam intervention must of played a part in this to allow this to happen someone acting on behalf of some one else being a bit too clever who did not understand the whole system.

whiten
Reply to  B Clarke
September 17, 2021 6:20 pm

But still we do have a point of agreement there;

Faulty and careless operation, a human error.

You say over current and I say line earthing over voltage …
as a result of a human over clever error… 🙂

cheers

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:50 pm

The level of your ignorance is so profound that it leaves me speechless.
Cheap circuit breakers use heat from over current to cause the circuit to break.
Quality and high power circuit breakers are triggered by electronics that measure the current and send a signal to the breaker. Much more accurate, much more reliable.

If you give up the notion that you already know everything and spend some time learning from the vast majority of the population that knows more than you do, you might manage to stop coming off as an ignorant ass.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 2:07 pm

Cheap circuit breakers use heat

??? who said these were heat activated? MarkW, you again disappoint me.
update: one of my answers to this B idiot may have been easy to misunderstand. I didn’t say breakers are heat activated. Furthermore, they are activated well before the equipment can overheat. I’m pretty sure we agree in this.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 2:33 pm

You only now admit this because I’ve told you 3 times .

Your out of your depth spoutting some one else’s rubbish

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 3:34 pm

You only now admit this because I’ve told you 3 times .

What have you told me? 🙂

Lrp
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 10:10 am

Now you’re an A idiot and a liar.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 2:24 pm

I’ll never forget seeing a Western Electric worker drop a crescent wrench onto a set of 24v bus bars in a large central office! There was a flash so brilliant all you could see was stars! And the wrench was a little puddle on the ground. Didn’t trip one breaker!

You are correct about the current. Sizing the buses in the central office was a job for a dedicated engineer. Flash shorts (like above) don’t usually cause problems. But too heavy of a current draw (think adding a relay rack lineup full of equipment) will cause all kinds of problems over time, both short intervals as well as long intervals. And this was for 24v DC. I can’t imagine what it would be for HVDC.

B Clarke
Reply to  Tim Gorman
September 16, 2021 2:31 pm

Thanks Tim, I saw someone thrown across the floor when they tested a buzz bar to see if it was live, it was.

Yep DC can be lethal in the wrong hands.

whiten
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:35 pm

And you have no idea or clue of the HV protection systems.

nyolci
Reply to  whiten
September 16, 2021 3:36 pm

And you have no idea or clue of the HV protection systems.

Exactly. I thought we should simply run away, that would be the best protection. 😉

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:49 pm

I guess this is as close as you are capable of getting, to admitting you are wrong.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:48 pm

So you admit that you have no idea whether the claims you have been making are true or not.
They just feel right to you, and that’s good enough.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 3:55 pm

So you admit that you have no idea whether the claims you have been making are true or not.

Well, no. The “maintenance” is in the press report. Most electrical fires are due to short circuiting. Electric equipment is designed and sized in a way that it doesn’t allow overheating. Short circuiting during a maintenance is much more likely. These 4 claims of mine are non-controversial, I think we all agree in that. What this B cretin claims is extremely implausible, and literally without any evidence. I’m not saying it’s impossible. But this is not the thing I would put any money on. Just a bit of background: these outages are extremely expensive to companies, they try to do their best to save equipment. The outage will be half a year in this case. Would they (manually!) override their safety equipment for essentially propaganda purposes? I’m not entirely sure it’s even possible to override these things. When I mentioned circuit breakers he suddenly came up with another bullshit, the a faulty cb (instead of manual override). These are triply redundant in an installation like this. One single faulty breaker usually won’t cause a fire.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:56 pm

You have no idea what you are talking about. Most fires are caused by high resistance at connections where current and the resistance results in heat. Too small wiring and aluminum wiring can also overheat and cause fires due to current. Replacing circuit breakers with high values can cause overheated wire. Do you even know what size wire is used for 15 amp circuits or 20 amp circuits? Why are wire nuts used instead of soldered connections? Why do 20 amp outlets only have screw connections? Don’t Google the answers either.

nyolci
Reply to  Jim Gorman
September 16, 2021 11:13 pm

You have no idea what you are talking about

I know, and this is expected 🙂

Jim Gorman
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:29 pm

Have you ever worked in electrical power distribution at all? Have you ever thrown a breaker on even a low voltage line let alone a 50 Kv line or higher? Everything you are spouting appears to come from googling rather than from hands on experience. Many of the folks on here have that experience yet you just blithely denigrate their knowledge and experience as if you were the fount of all knowledge. You need to grow up, you sound like you live in your mama’s basement.

nyolci
Reply to  Jim Gorman
September 16, 2021 11:25 pm

Have you ever thrown a breaker on even a low voltage line let alone a 50 Kv line or higher?

So your theory is that it simply overheated and caught fire? During usage? Again, this debate is about this. This idiot claimed this was the case, without any evidence. The press release above says there was a maintenance. A much more plausible reason. The guy changed his explanation when I pointed out that safety equipment would intervene in these cases.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 6:48 pm

My theory is that I don’t know what happened and neither do you. This is all speculation. The point is that a single point failure occurred that was not planned for.

nyolci
Reply to  Jim Gorman
September 17, 2021 11:22 pm

This is all speculation

Now we agree. But you should know, there are less and more plausible speculations.

The point is that a single point failure occurred that was not planned for.

I call this a speculation. Engineering failures in my experience are very rarely single point (but not exclusively).

Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 2:10 pm

B Clarke re: “the operators drew touch much current that the sub station could not handle”

UNLIKELY; these things are monitored, via “protective relaying” and the use of interrupters to trip those circuits when faults, fault conditions (including overloads) occur … NOT to mention human supervision via the regional ‘transmission’ authority for those lines (and substations).

B Clarke
Reply to  _Jim
September 16, 2021 2:18 pm

Normally they are, however when you have a agenda of ” can’t be seen to be using coal” i think they over ruled the protections , none of what you stated worked the sub station burnt , it was not the interconnector cable that set on fire, thats probably better rated for excess current , it was the internals in the sub station. Management under pressure?

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 3:59 pm

i think they over ruled the protections

Hm, why don’t you make up your mind? So was it a faulty circuit breaker or they had manual override? Or both? And how about a little common sense? Do you think they can manually override a station like this?

Jim Gorman
Reply to  _Jim
September 16, 2021 5:19 pm

You really have no idea what went on. A breaker could have been overridden while another branch was worked on. Right now everything is speculation.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 9:26 am

Gee, nyolci, how much of this bollixed up energy madness can you take? If a couple of bridges fell down, you surely would have critical things to say to your authorities, woke or unwoke.

nyolci
Reply to  Gary Pearse
September 16, 2021 9:42 am

I beg your pardon? What are you trying to say here?

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 9:44 am

Why do people always try to act so smart? Yes, Brazil and china are ahead in this, because they are 3rd world countries making a jump and using latest technology, bypassing a step.
Like African nations that run on cell networks no landlines.
For countries with existing infrastructure, formerly always working systems, its about replacing all that infrastructure.

And BTW, when you are wasting trillions on useless renewables, that is trillions you don’t have available to spend on HVDC lines.
Or hospitals.
Or food.

Just saying.

nyolci
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
September 16, 2021 9:57 am

they are 3rd world countries

Not so sure about China 🙂

For countries with existing infrastructure

No, the EU is clearly behind. This is widely known.

And BTW, when you are wasting trillions on useless renewables

We are wasting trillions on a lot of things. The Afghanistan war was a total waste, we couldn’t set up a viable puppet state. Fossil fuel is a total waste too. Fossil fuel companies are the most profitable in the world by a ridiculously large margin. All that profit is waste, furthermore they use it for propaganda (like WUWT).

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:23 pm

No, the EU is clearly behind. This is widely known.

Since the EU is not a developing country, why do you bring it up?

The things you think are a waste are the standard list of far left whines.

Fossil fuels made the world wealthy, renewables are killing people.
Profit is a waste? Just how big a communist are you?

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 1:50 pm

Since the EU is not a developing country, why do you bring it up?

Okay, my sentence was badly worded. The EU is clearly behind in long distance power distribution. We have to build lines but we can’t agree on things. China is likely at the top at the moment, but even the US (nowadays associated with bad infrastructure) is in a better position that the EU.

Fossil fuels made the world wealthy

Slave trade made the Liverpudlian elite wealthy, tea trade made the southern Chinese wealthy, cocaine trade made the Colombian elite wealthy etc. The world has changed.

Profit is a waste?

Please compare fossil fuel profit margins with – say – car production margins. You will see. We are essentially paying a huge tax to these people without much in return.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 2:26 pm

China has no problem with right-of-way. The dictators just take the land for whatever they need. HVDC or anything else.

Finding places to run HVDC lines in the EU is a far different proposition!

nyolci
Reply to  Tim Gorman
September 16, 2021 2:52 pm

Finding places to run HVDC lines in the EU is a far different proposition!

Nothing to do with place. They can’t make up a coherent energy policy. The NordStream 2 case is a good illustration. Poland etc. are against, Germany wants it. The US wants an EU with shitty energy stability, wants to fcuk the Russians so it’s sponsoring the internal EU resistance against NordStream 2. At the moment when the EU elite makes up its collective mind they will build a HVDC line through the Arc of Triumph in Paris despite any popular protest.

Derg
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 8:04 pm

Russia colluuuusion 😉

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:53 pm

I said fossil fuels made the world wealthy, you think a few industries that made a small fraction of the population wealthy is an adequate come back?

Your communism is showing again.

In good years, fossil fuel companies make a lot of money.
In bad years, fossil fuel companies lose a lot of money.

Over all the profit margin for the fossil fuel industry is not that different from other industries.

Lrp
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 10:23 am

You pay tax to your government, and you pay a market price for the car or fuel you buy.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 9:48 am

You’re quite good at cut and paste but I think you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. You certainly don’t understand engineering and the real world constraints of systems. How are you going to get electricity from Ghana to England (that might be the closest spot with extra wind) in a timely and cost-effective manner? What “smart network” software will you be using and how well will it control the entire world network?

nyolci
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
September 16, 2021 10:04 am

You certainly don’t understand engineering and the real world constraints of systems

Why do you have to bullshit?

that might be the closest spot with extra wind

Ugh, why do you have to bullshit? BTW we could develop a very good world wide fiber cable network in essentially 30 years without much ado and without the “trillions of dollars” or whatever bullshit. I think you can know what I try to say here.

What “smart network” software will you be using and how well will it control the entire world network?

The “smart network” software is the least of the problems. And this is an engineering problem. The real problems are political, and driven (at least partially) by the fossil fuel lobby.

Sweet Old Bob
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 11:39 am

….we could develop a very good world wide fiber cable network in essentially 30 years without much ado….

Fiber is for comunication , not for power …

nyolci
Reply to  Sweet Old Bob
September 16, 2021 12:20 pm

Fiber is for comunication , not for power …

Yes. But the effort is comparable. Gee, why do I have to explain everything every time? In the next 30 (well, probably much less) year we can build a network of comparable size with long range HVDC interconnections, with comparable cost. Do you understand now? If not, read the sentence previous sentence again (and again) slowly.

Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:35 pm

You have to explain, because in advane you were unclear or wrong.

nyolci
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 12:53 pm

You have to explain, because in advane you were unclear or wrong.

Please, Krishna, don’t. In the last hour you couldn’t write down one single sentence without an annoying error that potentially hindered understanding. You know, rocks and glass house, whatever 🙂

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:53 pm

Ah yes, the standard left wing sense of overwhelming superiority makes itself known yet again.
Krishna makes an occasional spelling error.
You on the other hand over and over again screw up basic facts and show no ability to handle either reading comprehension or basic logic.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 2:53 pm

Krishna makes an occasional spelling error.

Krishna was bullshiting about how my writing had been unclear.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:56 pm

Most people are smart enough to not be bothered by an occasional misspelling. Bad grammar on the other hand is an entirely different problem.

Paul C
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 5:19 pm

Pretty sure that English is not Krishna’s first language, and most native English speakers are tolerant of minor deviations from the standard – just look at our own regional dialects. Perhaps nyolci is also not a native English speaker, and has difficulty both understanding and writing in English.

nyolci
Reply to  Paul C
September 16, 2021 11:16 pm

Pretty sure that English is not Krishna’s first language

Again, he was bullshiting about my writing. I just pointed out his writing had problems too.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:14 pm

Interesting when your proved to be clueless ie fibre cable for power,what do you mean ” effort is comparable ” that has no relation at all what are you talking about?

Your talking rubbish, hysterical babel , your repeating some rubbish you have read some were.

MarkW
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 1:55 pm

Fiber optics are usually a small handful of thin cables, often pushed through existing underground conduits.
HVDC involves thick copper cables, hung from very tall pylons.

Obviously, the level of effort is the same.

B Clarke
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 2:03 pm

I know Mark ,I just want to see what this idiot thinks he knows ,

I’ve asked him several times for costs,materials, ect he refuses to answer , hes clueless , hes been brainwashed into believing its doable ,spouting something some one else has told him down the pub , the practicality of his mad dreams elude him.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 4:06 pm

I’ve asked him several times for costs,materials, ect he refuses to answer

Yep, I don’t want to talk to refuse if you know what I mean 🙂 Okay, 1000 km landline is around USD1b. A backbone around all the continents can be build with 100000 km of lines, that’s around USD100b. The backbone is quite enough ‘cos there are extensive national and transnational networks already.
If you quadruple this amount you get a complete upper bound with undersea cables across the Atlantic and the Bering straight, and you are still well below the yearly military budget of the US. That’s it.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:36 pm

Look i surgest you get help , you didn’t even know the difference between a fibre optic cable and a power cable till it was pointed out to you,

Thankfully your ramblings ,obsessive belief in a one world government, and power supply will never happen,

Get a job after finishing school,

Get a girlfriend

And buy yourself some bubble wrap.you understand.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 18, 2021 10:01 am

the difference between a fibre optic cable and a power cable

The inability of you deniers to understand this example is shocking. One after another comes up with this. No wonder, science denial correlates well with plain, everyday stupidity.

Thankfully your ramblings ,obsessive belief in a one world government, and power supply will never happen,

Please get yourself together and write sentences that make sense. What did you want to say here? Due to my “ramblings” and “obsessive whatever” the power supply won’t happen? Your text is full of these contorted sentences.

MarkW
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 4:57 pm

A bit ago, he made the claim that WUWT was funded by fossil fuel companies. When I asked him for evidence, he just declared that it was something that everyone knew and I was an idiot for questioning it.

B Clarke
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 5:08 pm

Yes Mark,

He does not understand the concept of proof, I think he’s a brainwashed kid with no understanding of the adult world.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 3:03 pm

Fiber optics are usually a small handful of thin cables

A cross continent or intercontinental backbone cable is rather thick, it’s not the cable that’s running to your granny’s house. Furthermore, you can’t just simply weld two fiber cables together, this is not a straightforward technology. You need repeaters etc. and funnily, you need electricity for the repeaters, and not even some nominal amount. There are challenges, don’t be afraid.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:04 pm

The entire bundle is still thinner than an HVDC connector. Actually the problem with splicing fiber optic cables was solved by industry decades ago. I’m not surprised that someone with your level of ignorance wasn’t aware of it.

https://www.vevor.com/collections/fusion-fiber-splicer?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=fiber%20splicer&utm_campaign=AD-All-US-Electrical-Fusion%20Fiber%20Splicer-Fusion%20Fiber%20Splicer-ECPC-20210826-WHJ%20-%209.10%20check&msclkid=e72d5935c0b713b3476838761a6cfab5&utm_content=Fusion%20Fiber%20Splicer

Repeaters are also not the problem you think them to be.

https://www.perle.com/lp/fiber-repeaters.shtml

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 8:08 pm

A cross country backbone cable is about the thickness of an average male forearm. That’s not very thick. Not at all difficult to pull through a conduit.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 2:27 pm

Where are you going to find the right-of-way? When did the EU become a dictatorship?

nyolci
Reply to  Tim Gorman
September 16, 2021 3:05 pm

When did the EU become a dictatorship?

It was always like this. Just as the US. Don’t be delusional.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 3:18 pm

So the EU has always been a collective noun has it, we can eliminate history from your list of achievements.

Last edited 1 month ago by B Clarke
nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 4:10 pm

So the EU has always been a collective noun has it

Please seek help before you bullshit. First try to understand. I know you’ve always had problems with that. This is lesson 4, if you can count up to 4. So, the claim is “The EU was always like [whatever]”. The claim is not “The EU was always in existence”.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:30 pm

I think you really need help, eg every single poster on this thread has disagreed with you several times,

Would you say you are right and every one else is wrong?

MarkW
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 5:06 pm

That he considers himself to be incapable of error, or at least he has too much pride to admit it when caught out, has become obvious.

Last edited 1 month ago by MarkW
B Clarke
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 5:21 pm

I really think his beliefs are being questioned to a point hes contradicting himself in reply, he says the EU was always like this” i say ” so the EU has always been a collective noun”

His response is “the claim is not the EU was always in existence ”

He does not realise i never said the EU was not always in existence , I commented on the EU not pre EU

He’s a fool not worth bothering with.

MarkW
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 8:09 pm

He really is turning into the Energizer bunny of trolls.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 11:18 pm

eg every single poster on this thread has disagreed with you several times,

No, there are other posters. And your greater number doesn’t mean you’re right, this is a science deniers’ blog anyway.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 17, 2021 4:33 am

I think you really need help, eg every single poster on this thread has disagreed with you several times,

No, there are multiple users who expressed bafflement with your explanation (like _Jim). And anyway, regardless of your numbers, you are pushing an explanation that is built entirely on implausible speculation.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:05 pm

The EU and US have always been dictatorships?

Is this just another one of those things that everyone knows?

Or are you simply that delusional.

MarkW
Reply to  Sweet Old Bob
September 16, 2021 12:28 pm

Phone companies have been installing fiber optic systems for decades. The main backbones for both the phone system and the internet have been fiber optic since the beginning. In many areas we already have fiber optic for internet running directly to individual homes.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:26 pm

Why do you have to bullshit?

Translation: He’s got me by the short and curlies, but my ego is too big to allow me to admit it.

We already have a world wide fiber optic network.
Is there ANYTHING you know that is actually true?

It really is fascinating how you know that everything bad is caused by the fossil fuel industry.
You have been asked for evidence to support your various paranoias, but so far your only response is that everybody who’s willing to spend time with you agrees, so it must be true.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 1:06 pm

Translation: He’s got me by the short and curlies

Really? 🙂

We already have a world wide fiber optic network.

Yes. It took around 30 years to build it. The cost was high but nothing like trillions of dollars. I used it as an analogy for long distance, high voltage lines.

bad is caused by the fossil fuel industry.

No. Even here I wrote that in this specific issue the fossils industry is “at least partially” responsible. Which is true. Look, the Iraqi war is widely attributed to “oil”. I don’t want to go into details here, this is obviously an oversimplification but it is still a “truism”. I haven’t seen so far anything comparable with other resources in recent times.
Back to the fiber (backbone) lines, a comparable high voltage long distance network has no technical issues, we can build it, likely much faster than the fiber stuff and likely cheaper as well. The real problem is political, the “fragmentation” of the world makes this impossible at the moment.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:29 pm

There is no analogy between fibre optic and power lines,

You state “for long distance, high voltage lines” what exactly is long distance?

You also state ” high voltage long distance network has no technical issues,” really again define long distance ?

You state ” high voltage long distance network has no technical issues, we can build it very much faster than fibre stuff and likely cheaper as well” you can build long distance network without defining what that long distance is how can transmission lines be cheaper than fibre optics ,? What materials will you be using? at what cost? On a like for like distance ? Have you ever heard the term voltage drop ? How many sub stations will you need over a given distance ( which you don’t state ) to allow for voltage drop?

Have you any idea what your talking about?

MarkW
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 1:57 pm

Time and time again, nyolci proves that he has no idea what he’s talking about. But his ego is so vast that he can’t admit it, even to himself.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 4:13 pm

There is no analogy between fibre optic and power lines,

Ugh, this is a definite refutation, I’m sorry… 😉

You state “for long distance, high voltage lines” what exactly is long distance?

You really don’t know? What an idiot you are… We’ve been talking about this already for hours. Gee… Between continents. Between the EU and China. Between the EU and India. Between China and Australia.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:16 pm

Good luck with that let me know when you have built it.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:24 pm

One way you can tell when nyolci is just making it up, he starts insulting those who are questioning his self declared wisdom.

Long distance is intercontinental? And you actually have the gall to declare that others are idiots.

B Clarke
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 6:04 pm

Exactly.

MarkW
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 5:22 pm

On the other side, how many miles can you go between repeater on a fiber optic line? How much do repeaters cost?

How much do the towers needed for HVDC cost? How much does it cost to string the conductor on the pylons?

B Clarke
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 5:35 pm

I think he based his figures on one power line ,that he’s scaled up to cover the world which is ridiculous , he does not cost infrastructure eg pylons ,pylons would not be suitable every were ,so then we have trenching ,ect basing a costing on a existing line ,does not account for current raw materials prices,

His dream also assumes every government is on board, which can only be a reality in his fantasy new world government.

Security is another area his fantasy world does not cover.

I’m not sure who he’s trying to convince, no one has agreed with him , he’s certainly fanatical about his dream .

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:56 pm

It really is amazing how you remain convinced that the oil companies are funding the skeptics.
No data necessary.

Political fragmentation of the world? So you want a one world government, the better control the people.
How delightfully totalitarian of you.

B Clarke
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 2:10 pm

Yes he’s a globalist, bought into the religion of a one world government with a one world power system , hes a product of brainwashing , probably never achieved anything so he believes in this crap for his salvation.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 3:08 pm

Yes he’s a globalist, bought into the religion of a one world government with a one world power system

Objection, it’s not a “religion”. The rest is correct.

probably never achieved anything

🙂 you can’t live without bullshiting. You love its smell, don’t you?

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 3:15 pm

English is not your first language, you only learnt the small words.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 4:15 pm

English is not your first language, you only learnt the small words.

Yep 🙂 But I have to tell you the same applies to you. There’s almost no post of yours without a faulty sentence.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:25 pm

More insults, Clarke has obviously nailed nyolci.

Rich Davis
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 6:47 pm

I just have one question.
How do you say stfu in Hungarian?

nyolci
Reply to  Rich Davis
September 17, 2021 6:21 am

How do you say stfu in Hungarian?

We call it “Rich Davis”.

MarkW
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 5:24 pm

And he then declares that the US has always been a dictatorship.

B Clarke
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 5:58 pm

Does his warped logic mean the usa has gone to war is that what he means by dictatorship is he German by any chance ( sorry normal germans) perhaps his admitted devotion is a reference to the 4th reich World government? The German reich was always about Europe and the world interconnected via a central hub germany.

I don’t see America as a dictatorship its a Republic of states who by and large run themselves apart from some federal laws,
Am I wrong ? It has a Congress and upper house that keeps the checks and balances with a supreme Court that keeps them all within the law and or the constitution. Ok America is seen by some country’s as a world police force which haven’t been a bad thing, even at the hight of American might it has never tried to dominant the world ,

Mark hes just pissed , 😛

MarkW
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 8:10 pm

He claims that he hates the communists who used to run his country. Then a few days later he waxes poetic about a one world communist government.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 17, 2021 4:36 am

He claims that he hates the communists who used to run his country

I’ve never claimed this. I claimed I hated them in the 80s, and the 90s was a good lesson why this hate was completely misplaced.

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 17, 2021 4:35 am

The German reich was always about Europe and the world interconnected via a central hub germany.

Again, you’re making up shit. FYI I’m not German (but I think this is completely irrelevant in this context).

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 3:19 pm

No data necessary.

Yep. Except there’s data.

Political fragmentation of the world? […] How delightfully totalitarian of you.

That was quick 🙂 3 sentences all together. Congratulations.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:27 pm

If there’s data, why do you never provide it?

nyolci is feeling the heat of reality, he’s starting to just spew insults. No longer even pretending to invent new lies.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:11 pm

That a lot of idiotic progressives made the claim that Iraq was for oil, doesn’t make it true.

Not having any technical issues is not the same as saying something is easy, or cheap to do. Only someone with absolutely no experience with real world engineering would say some as stupid as claiming that it’s easier to build an HVDC network than an fiber optic one.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 18, 2021 10:10 am

That a lot of idiotic progressives made the claim that Iraq was for oil, doesn’t make it true.

Well, I’m neither idiotic nor progressive. And very likely the control of oil and Iraq’s geopolitical situation were the definite factors. They (the US) wanted a pliable puppet in the middle of the Middle East just beside Iran and Syria, and more broadly, the Caucasus.

Not having any technical issues is not the same as saying something is easy, or cheap to do

Yep, that’s why no one has claimed that. The claim was that we could do it without the made up “trillions” price tag you could encounter for every non-fossil proposal in denier forums. The fiber network was the analogy, it’s a worldwide network built in 30 years, with a lot of money but nowhere near the “trillions” bullshiting. Most people have not even noticed we have been building such a big network.

LdB
Reply to  nyolci
September 19, 2021 12:38 am

Political fragmentation will always stop a world electric cable network …. what is the next suggestion we all share Nukes????

You might get lucky and a few countries share it until push comes to shove over issues.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 7:10 pm

What the hell does fiber network have to do with electrical transmission? Straw men are the fallback for losers.

BTW, where is the money to create all this coming from? Chinese slave labor maybe?

nyolci
Reply to  Jim Gorman
September 17, 2021 1:43 am

What the hell does fiber network have to do with electrical transmission?

Perhaps that there’s an extensive network that has been built in 30 years without excessive costs.

BTW, where is the money to create all this coming from?

See above.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 1:17 pm

The fiber optic network was built inexpensively. Therefore a world wide HVDC network can also be built inexpensively.

And to think, you actually consider yourself to be the smart one.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 17, 2021 11:26 pm

Therefore a world wide HVDC network can also be built inexpensively.

I don’t think either is inexpensive. What I think building a network is completely within our means, and the “trillions” usually surfacing here are way overblown.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
September 16, 2021 10:43 am

He’s also good at the Ali Shuffle, changing subjects in mere nanoseconds.

nyolci
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
September 16, 2021 11:01 am

changing subjects

Where? I have pointed out this piece of news has nothing to do with renewables. The cable was actually used to import nuclear power mostly. We don’t even know about the rest. There’s nothing inherently “renewable” in this cable. Eric, for reasons unclear (a charitable interpretation), tried to present it as a renewable failure. You immediately swallowed this big lump of bullshit without any second thought.

Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:02 pm

He didn’t try that, it’s you wrong interpretation, as usual, you don’t undertand the mening of what he said, the rest you suckle out of you fingersl.

nyolci
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 12:23 pm

Huh, Krishna, I’m pretty sure you know well my interpretation is not wrong 🙂

Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:36 pm

Couldn’t be wronger 😀

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:58 pm

In addition to being a self described expert in everything, now he believes himself to be psychic to boot.

Lrp
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 10:53 am

You just don’t know when to shut up. You totally misunderstood the title. Clue? Eric doesn’t even bother to explain it to you.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:29 pm

The connection to renewables is the fact that Britain needs that interconnect to make up for the fact that renewables are completely unreliable when it comes to producing power when it is needed.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 1:13 pm

The connection to renewables is the fact that Britain needs that interconnect

While I doubt this, this is at least a reason. FYI well before the renewables era there were long distance interconnections, so the fact that there’s an interconnection doesn’t signify much.
But I have to note something. I hope you are aware of the fact that your explanation is the complete opposite the other guys here propose. This is just a note, not a “refutation” or something.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:52 pm

Why would you doubt this ,uk is increasing its reliance on European power at the same time its renewables can’t cope , its increasing its renewables but expanding its reliance elsewhere, theres clearly a disconnect, yet you doubt this, then why ?

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 2:00 pm

Some guy proposes using wind power, and this proves that wind power is feasible.

Interconnects did exist before renewables become popular. However the need for them exploded once renewables started being used.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 3:13 pm

Some guy proposes using wind power, and this proves that wind power is feasible.

??? I’m a bit lost. I’m sure I haven’t said anything like this.

However the need for them exploded once renewables started being used

You’re making things up. Again. Perhaps we should check relevant statistics first, right? Warning, this is not an easy task, the raw number of km-s won’t tell you much in itself.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:29 pm

What’s the matter, too tired to come up with new lies?

Paul C
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 6:01 pm

The original interconnect was more about balancing the peak demand requirement in neighbouring time-zones. Flattening the (combined) peak benefits both grids. That allows both grids to operate with slightly less reserve capacity, as the neighbour provides some virtual reserve. Gas generation for both baseload and for peak demand is fairly recent in the UK, starting at the former Wilton power plant in 1993. Non-dispatchable power would be even more problematic without gas generation and interconnects. The interconnects work both ways – to absorb some of the excess wind generation, and then to provide some of the power shortfall when the wind dies down. French nuclear is cheaper than other generators though, so most of the power flow is one-way.

nyolci
Reply to  Paul C
September 17, 2021 4:38 am

Thx.

Rich Davis
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 4:00 am

Nyolci
You put the pest in Budapest!

HVDC cables are an extravagance that could never be economically justified if each region connected by them had adequate dispatchable power generation. They are explicitly imagined as a solution to the intractable intermittency problem of the so-called “renewables”. That is the obvious connection to renewables. Obvious to all but the most ideologically blinded among us (that’s you).

The irony that they end up supplying coal- and nuclear-generated power to make up for the lack of wind and solar seems to be completely lost on you.

nyolci
Reply to  Rich Davis
September 18, 2021 10:13 am

You put the pest in Budapest!

No, I put the shit in Rich Davis!

HVDC cables are an extravagance

Thank you for your expert opinion.

M Courtney
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 12:18 pm

You know the wind is always blowing somewhere. 

But where?
For that argument to make any sense everywhere that we have windfarms must have enough redundancy to cover all the areas with windfarms and no wind. And the losses during transmission across the continent.

So let us assume that Europe (inc UK and ROI) can be split into at least 6 regions; NW Atlantic, Iberia, Scandinavia, Central, (quite big that) Sub-Alps, SE Europe (let’s inc Israel and Turkey), Eastern. If independent then No Wind would be a chance of 1 in 6 x 1 in 6 so… blackouts only one year in 20 if every region could cover half a region.

But they aren’t independent. So double that. Every region needs to cover double itself (taking Central as the same size as Iberia).

Your silly aside has at least doubled your costs and doubled the footprint and material inputs required.

This is an underestimate as we assume no energy loss transferring across regions.

And that is for a shutdown of industry no more than 1 year in 20,,, on a average. The years are not independent either – they will bunch up.

Goodbye Europe’s industry.

nyolci
Reply to  M Courtney
September 16, 2021 1:27 pm

But where?

A world wide electricity distribution network would be a great alleviating factor for sure.

If independent then No Wind would be a chance of 1 in 6 x 1 in 6 so

There are much more accurate estimations for this (actually I know this from a top fossils and energy industry expert, a friend of mine, no further details). Wind was just an allegory for there type of resources. I agree with you that some of this is useless, solar probably is the top contender for the “we are better off without it” role.

at least doubled your costs

Perhaps I can say here that you’re an alarmist, right? IRL these cost estimates are quite overblown, and again, the fossils industry (with literally almost a trillion dollars of investment every year) has an active anti-lobbying and propaganda influence in this.
Actually, the renewables have no capacity problem. Their real problem is storing energy. Long distance energy distribution lessens this need.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
M Courtney
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:42 pm

Perhaps I can say here that you’re an alarmist, right? 

No, you can’t. Because I demonstrably used UNDERESTIMATES for your idea.

You cannot use the same energy twice. If you want to cover where the wind isn’t blowing – and you want to still cover where the wind is blowing – then you need to have twice the generation.

Solar is even sillier. As you have exactly the same problem but you need to transmit it around half the planet, not just the continent.

nyolci
Reply to  M Courtney
September 16, 2021 2:37 pm

No, you can’t. Because I demonstrably used UNDERESTIMATES for your idea.

Not my idea. And the estimates are generally quite unreliable.

If you want to cover where the wind isn’t blowing – and you want to still cover where the wind is blowing – then you need to have twice the generation.

Not necessarily. Again, the capacity is present but not uniformly (in time). Worldwide capacity is much more stable, so long distance lines do help here.
Furthermore, if we could store excess electric energy that would be a good solution. We already have some options. I’m not talking about battery farms, probably the silliest thing I’ve ever heard of. There are certain hydro-stations we can run in reverse, in certain countries these are viable options already. But most importantly we already have “fuel generation” (hydrocarbons from electricity). We waste around 50% of input but if it is wasted during the time it’s not needed anyway, then we don’t really waste anything. Currently the EU’s grid almost collapses if there’s high wind in the North Sea, because of the excess wind generation capacity. We have to shut down power stations etc. I hope you get what I’m talking about. We should scale up this “inverse fuel” industry. The technology is already present, and actually it’s in use in Germany (among others).
And please remember, the fossil fuel industry every year needs almost a trillion dollars of investment. I would call it “expensive”. Just a little bit of perspective: if 1000 km of HVDC line is USD1.8b (very likely much cheaper), we can build 55.000 km from USD100b. This like 140% of the Earth’s equatorial perimeter.

M Courtney
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 1:10 am

I’m awake again.

hydrocarbons from electricity

What benefit is there for this idea? It’s less efficient than just using hydrocarbons. Emissions are the same.

If you mean you don’t waste the useless wind energy that’s made when not required… OK. But it won’t be as cheap as just using fossil fuels.

And it’s just as green.

nyolci
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 1:36 am

Emissions are the same.

No, emissions are not the same if we use atmospheric CO2.

But it won’t be as cheap as just using fossil fuels.

Are you sure? Using excess energy? And really, not using fossils is THE cheap solution in the long run.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 1:20 pm

The problem you are failing to grasp is that fossil fuel plants have to be kept on hot standby for those occasions where the wind stops blowing or a cloud passes over a solar farm. Hot standby means the plant is burning almost as much fuel as it would have, had it actually been producing power.

Paul C
Reply to  M Courtney
September 17, 2021 4:44 am

Hydrocarbons from sunlight do work, but mother nature has cornered the market in that. Shipping chopped up trees from America using fossil fuels for the transport to burn them in UK powerstations is NOT a good use of resources. The whole point nyolci is missing is that non-dispatchable power generation does not provide useful power. Even his phenomenally expensive electricity to fuel process depends on a reliable power source. Interrupt the power, and the big industrial process shuts down, and would typically have to dispose incomplete material processing – flaring off unusable gasses for safety. Far more efficient to have a gas generator as backup for when the wind stops blowing, but even more efficient is to forget the windmills and use the gas generator continuously. For even greater efficiency, close the inefficient electricity to fuel process as well, and just use the gas generator. To save even more cost, don’t build the windmills or electricity to fuel in the first place. Since the fuel generator would be running continuously, build a modern coal powerstation instead. Disperse the CO2 emissions so that they are recycled into trees.

nyolci
Reply to  M Courtney
September 16, 2021 11:35 pm

Hey M, regardless of our disagreement in specifics, thx for the debate.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:57 pm

A world wide electricity distribution network ”

Have you costed this, ? What would the infrastructure look like?

What would it be made from? What is the overall materials cost?

How would transmission move this generation around the planet?

nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 2:37 pm

Have you costed this, ?

Yes.

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 2:40 pm

OK I can’t wait for your costing of a world wide electricity network.

That one out of five four to go.

Last edited 1 month ago by B Clarke
nyolci
Reply to  B Clarke
September 16, 2021 3:22 pm

I can’t wait

You will 🙂

B Clarke
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 3:26 pm

Oh I see its a secret ,your costing to save the world

I won’t be hold my breath.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:32 pm

Either delusional, or he’s getting tired of coming up with new lies.

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 2:04 pm

A world wide electricity distribution network would be a great alleviating factor for sure.

It might be, if such a thing were remotely possible.

There are much more accurate estimations

Once again we are just supposed to take your word for it.

has an active anti-lobbying and propaganda influence in this

You really like to believe in paranoid fantasies, don’t you.

Rich Davis
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 4:17 am

Actually, the renewables have no capacity problem. Their real problem is storing energy. Long distance energy distribution lessens this need.

Here you are stating explicitly that long distance energy distribution is a mitigation strategy for the inadequacy of renewables. Thus you admit that the prevalence of HVDC interconnections is due to the goal of dealing with renewables’ intermittency problem.

Yet somehow this is not a renewables failure.

I guess it must be a Trump Administration failure. Isn’t that the go-to answer?

MarkW
Reply to  Rich Davis
September 17, 2021 1:23 pm

It does lessen the need for storage. But no where near as much as you believe.
BTW, there is no form of storage available. Pumped storage is about tapped out, and your Greens wouldn’t permit any to be built if a good site could be found.
Batteries are too expensive with too short a life expectancy.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 17, 2021 11:34 pm

and your Greens
Not mine.

Pumped storage is about tapped out

Perhaps. China is actively developing them, so I think we have just found another field where they are getting ahead fast.

nyolci
Reply to  Rich Davis
September 17, 2021 11:33 pm

Thus you admit that the prevalence of HVDC interconnections is due to

No. There were HV interconnections back in the 60s when neither solar nor wind were utilized. There are other factors for using them too. Calling an interconnection “renewables conn” is dishonest.

whiten
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 1:24 pm

nyolci.

you seem very excited about HVDC.

HVDC, does not produce energy.
Does not make windmill farms or solar farms more productive and reliable.

Does not offer any energy security for the production.

But it seems you already know that.

It is simply a high investment scheme in an attempt to “arrest” a grid blackout, total or partial,(whatever the case may be),due to the elevated risk increase from energy power sources like windmill and solar farms.
When in reality even that highly hypothetical.
Very very unlikely to work as expected when at most needed.

even when battery systems like the one in SA considered too in the scheme… still is quite a useless investment and a silly useless solution, as it never possibly will help a grid out of a blackout condition… most probably it will make it worse.

Oh, well.

nyolci
Reply to  whiten
September 16, 2021 2:15 pm

HVDC, does not produce energy.

Oh, I didn’t know that 😉 Once I drank a lava lamp. It wasn’t lava 😉

MarkW
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 5:35 pm

I’m guessing you don’t know this, but you are making a real ass of yourself.
If you could screw up your integrity and admit that you messed up, instead of retreating into smart ass territory again, you could take the first step on the road to personal integrity.

nyolci
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 11:28 pm

admit that you messed up

Messed up what? Not believing an evidence free speculation about the fire? Not believing this was a renewables’ failure? or what?
In a sense precisely it was you who messed this up. I wrote quite a few answers to you (and to M Courtney) with a normal debate in mind and normal tone. You (unlike M Courtney) didn’t seem to appreciate (or understand this) and used a very adversarial tone. Congratulations.

Last edited 1 month ago by nyolci
Jim Gorman
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 4:16 pm

Sorry to tell you, but if France was using all “renewable” and the cable failed, you would still lose that power. The loss of the cable has nothing to do with the type of electromagnetic power being carried. IT WAS A PHYSICAL DISRUPTION. Cable failures can occur for numerous reasons. The longer the connection, the more exposure there is. Do you have any experience in power distribution design? Does the word “risk” mean anything to you when designs are done for transmission lines? It sure doesn’t sound like it.

nyolci
Reply to  Jim Gorman
September 16, 2021 11:27 pm

The loss of the cable has nothing to do with the type of electromagnetic power being carried

Now really tell me what debate did you read. I said this same thing. This cable has nothing to do with renewables, and I’m happy you have arrived to the same conclusion.

Alan the Brit
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 9:11 am

You Sir, are the bovine faecal generator, you seem to be full of it, so pray tell, how do you manage to generate it, you know it could be a new source of energy production???

nyolci
Reply to  Alan the Brit
September 16, 2021 9:48 am

I would like to kindly return your nice words by congratulating for your moms achievement of being the employee of the month in the brothel.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 10:45 am

There is absolutely no one on the planet that can even approach the towering intellect that is Noci the Nasty.

nyolci
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
September 16, 2021 11:03 am

And your mom was the runner up.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  nyolci
September 16, 2021 2:16 pm

Grow up, little boi.

Lrp
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 9:45 am

The title is about renewable Britain and an not about renewable undersea cable

nyolci
Reply to  Lrp
September 18, 2021 10:17 am

If your suggestion is right then this idiot Eric screwed up the punctuation. Either way the title doesn’t make sense. Furthermore, even if we corrected it, the fact would remain the same: this cable is not specifically related to renewables.

beng135
Reply to  nyolci
September 17, 2021 10:40 am

Marxists such as yourself always accuse others of what they do.

Last edited 1 month ago by beng135
nyolci
Reply to  beng135
September 18, 2021 10:18 am

Marxists such as yourself always accuse others of what they do.

What do I do?

griff
Reply to  Sunsettommy
September 16, 2021 9:44 am

In Norway connection to Norwegian hydro is a large factor…

M Courtney
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 12:21 pm

Please don’t downvote just on a poster’s name. If you truly disagree , say why.

I disagree with Griff a lot but wouldn’t pick a fight on this question. Norwegian hydro is a good source of power. He’s right.

nyolci
Reply to  M Courtney
September 16, 2021 12:58 pm

You have my respect I have to say.

Paul C
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 6:17 pm

The North Sea Link between UK and Norway is due to become operational next month. It may help keep the lights on when the wind fails.

Frank the Norwegian
Reply to  Paul C
September 17, 2021 12:43 am

At the expense of the Norwegian consumer. The price of electricity is now at an all time high thanks to them interconnectors. Thank you very much!

Paul C
Reply to  Frank the Norwegian
September 17, 2021 5:07 am

But we are also likely to dump excess wind power onto you at times. That probably pushes the price up for you too if any more sites are suitable for your investment in pumped storage. Sorry for being such bad distant neighbours.
If only the smart meter had a free intermittent electricity spur on it to allow some of the excess to be dumped into immersion heaters and storage heaters – something that could also help level off a later peak in demand.

LdB
Reply to  Frank the Norwegian
September 19, 2021 12:35 am

But the company is making a killing … law of unintended consequences 🙂

Last edited 1 month ago by LdB
HotScot
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 6:50 am

Which means we went 310 days WITH coal power!

Meanwhile, with the 7 HVDC cables coming online (from where griff doesn’t say) our energy security is either at the mercy of foreign countries or wind/solar farms that have yet to be built.

Merry Christmas griff, hope you like raw turkey, turkey.

Jordan
Reply to  HotScot
September 16, 2021 7:50 am

GB went 365 days WITH coal power capacity available to secure supply.
We only failed to use coal more often because artificial “carbon” costs which makes it uneconomic compared to gas.
Right now, coal fired generation is HUGELY in-merit against gas. And wind generation is nowhere to be seen.
The present experience should be a warning for what WILL happen in a future without coal fired capacity.

griff
Reply to  HotScot
September 16, 2021 9:45 am

er… no. That was just a continuous period without.

coal in 2019 and 2020 supplied just 2% of UK electricity.

Rusty
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 10:50 am

But it kept the lights on at vital times. It’s not the average that counts it’s the peak that matters.

M Courtney
Reply to  Rusty
September 16, 2021 12:23 pm

This is the key point.

It doesn’t matter to a factory that they are only forced to close 2% of the time. They will choose to move to where they don’t have to close down at all.

HotScot
Reply to  griff
September 17, 2021 7:53 am

Meanwhile, gas, Nuclear and Interconnectors from God knows what sources provided far more than renewables.

Where do you imagine the electricity for the UK comes from when it’s becalmed, as it frequently is.

bill Johnston
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 7:01 am

Sure. And battery backup is on the way, also.

DrEd
Reply to  bill Johnston
September 16, 2021 8:00 am

And cold fusion.

Leo Smith
Reply to  DrEd
September 16, 2021 9:00 am

And generation based on pixie dust and unicorn farts, built with money off the magic money tree…

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Leo Smith
September 16, 2021 9:48 am

I have a patent on that.
Also on a quantum electricity confibulator that only lets “good” green electrons into your home or business, not the nasty fossil fuel ones.

send money

Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
September 16, 2021 10:17 am

You may laugh, I did, but a filter for nuclear power was sold 😀 😀
(No idea if more than one has been sold) 😀

NUKLESTOP

Nuclear fission, source of energy for atomic electricity. In addition to the generally known processes, each fission produces a so-called tachyon momentum, which cannot be converted into electricity like the rest of the released energy. This tachyon pulse, however, gives all forms of energy resulting from fission a special “signature” that cannot be erased for reasons of the law of conservation of energy. Consequently, atomic electricity is also endowed with this tachyonic signature.
This phenomenon is used by NucleoSTOP, the sensational innovative device for filtering out the atomic current!
A compact, handy device, packed with the latest high-tech electronics, makes it easy for YOU to stop using nuclear electricity. The device causes no installation effort, you don’t need an electrician and you don’t have to register the device anywhere.a_Geraet-1
NucleoSTOP is maintenance-free and – thanks to state-of-the-art integrated circuits – has an intrinsic power consumption of only 0.5 – 0.8 watts, depending on the proportion of nuclear power added to normal electricity. The device reliably detects nuclear current from any type of reactor, whether pressurized or boiling water, light, heavy, molten water or fast breeder. It does not matter – with our new product generation – whether the nuclear power was produced domestically or imported from abroad.

Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

http://www.nucleostop.de/a_Geraet-1.jpg

Last edited 1 month ago by Krishna Gans
Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 10:49 am

NucleoSTOP seems to have overcome a long-held principle of physics—that no electron can be distinguished from another.

Philo
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
September 16, 2021 11:35 am

You’re right. Nobody has actually developed a device to “filter out” select electrons. It can, however, siphon money out of your bank account or wallet.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Philo
September 16, 2021 2:17 pm

Success!

MarkW
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
September 16, 2021 12:33 pm

I’ve heard of tachyons. I’m wondering what kind of particle a tachyon momentum is.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  MarkW
September 16, 2021 3:25 pm

I’ve heard of tachyons.

But have it heard this one:

The barman says “we don’t serve faster than light particles in here”

A tachyon walks into a bar….

MarkW
Reply to  Krishna Gans
September 16, 2021 12:32 pm

This product is just more evidence that a fool and his money are soon parted.
I wonder how many griff and nyolci have bought?

Tom in Florida
Reply to  DrEd
September 16, 2021 9:41 am

And free beer.

Right-Handed Shark
Reply to  bill Johnston
September 16, 2021 9:26 am

Nocturnal solar is just as likely as battery backup, and probably more efficient.

Reply to  Right-Handed Shark
September 16, 2021 10:06 am

Yes, with Diesel generators 😀

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 7:10 am

Griff,
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

MarkW
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
September 16, 2021 12:33 pm

Or too proud to look.

Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 7:22 am

Before this month was August, a month of summer. After this month, fall and winter are knocking at “your” door. And to have plans for further cables is fine, but they are not able to connnect you to what ever.
So go out and blow some extra wind to the mills and glow some extra sun on the solar panels.with your bright mind. 😀

Joao Martins
Reply to  griff
September 16, 2021 7:28 am

Good, griff! French nuclear power is very grateful to you for this opportunity to sell their energy to Britons!

A decision very wise indeed, ending home production of power to buy it from foreign countries!… Very patriotic!…

Last edited 1 month ago by Joao Martins
DrEd
Reply to  Joao Martins
September 16, 2021 8:01 am

And idiotic.

Leo Smith
Reply to  Joao Martins
September 16, 2021 9:02 am

We buy it because France’s baseload of nuclear is more than they need so they sell it off below anything windmills can produce at.
Not because we need it

MarkW