Guest essay by Eric Worrall
h/t Steve Milloy; The New York Times is praising the efforts of low carbon pioneers who reject personal hygiene to save the planet from Covid-19 and Climate Change.
See Fewer People. Take Fewer Showers.
Some people said they started bathing less during the pandemic. As long as no one complains, they say they plan to keep the new habit.
By Maria Cramer
May 6, 2021
Robin Harper, an administrative assistant at a preschool on Martha’s Vineyard, grew up showering every day.
“It’s what you did,” she said. But when the coronavirus pandemic forced her indoors and away from the general public, she started showering once a week.
The new practice felt environmentally virtuous, practical and freeing. And it has stuck.
“Don’t get me wrong,” said Ms. Harper, 43, who has returned to work. “I like showers. But it’s one thing off my plate. I’m a mom. I work full-time, and it’s one less thing I have to do.”
…
Parents have complained that their teenage children are forgoing daily showers. After the British media reported on a YouGov survey that showed 17 percent of Britons had abandoned daily showers during the pandemic, many people on Twitter said they had done the same.
…
Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/health/shower-bathing-pandemic.html
Of course, if you give up washing for the sake of the planet, you need to examine other carbon intensive aspects of your life.
Stop Using Toilet Paper
Why are we hoarding it when experts agree that rinsing with water is more sanitary and environmentally sound?
April 3, 2020
By Kate MurphyMs. Murphy is the author of “You’re Not Listening: What You’re Missing and Why It Matters.”
While the coronavirus pandemic is affecting us all differently depending on where we live, our financial situation and our basic health, one universal is the difficulty finding toilet paper.
Panic buying of toilet paper has spread around the globe as rapidly as the virus, even though there have been no disruptions in supply and the symptoms of Covid-19 are primarily respiratory, not gastrointestinal. In many stores, you can still readily find food, but nothing to wipe yourself once it’s fully digested.
This is all the more puzzling when you consider that toilet paper is an antiquated technology that infectious disease and colorectal specialists say is neither efficient nor hygienic. Indeed, it dates back at least as far as the sixth century, when a Chinese scholar wrote that he “dared not” use paper from certain classical texts for “toilet purposes.”
…
Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/opinion/toilet-paper-hoarding-bidets.html
Obviously if you rinse every time you use the toilet, you kind of violate the first precept about not washing. So better keep rinsing down to say once per day, or less.
But what is the point of sacrificing your personal hygiene, if your air conditioner is obliterating your carbon savings with a blast of fossil fuel powered home cooling or heating?
Thankfully President Biden is helping the truly committed give up their air conditioners.
E.P.A. to Sharply Limit Powerful Greenhouse Gases
The Biden administration is moving quickly to limit hydrofluorocarbons, the Earth-warming chemicals used in air-conditioning and refrigeration.
By Lisa Friedman
Published May 3, 2021
Updated May 5, 2021WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency moved on Monday to sharply reduce the use and production of powerful greenhouse gases central to refrigeration and air-conditioning, part of the Biden administration’s larger strategy of trying to slow the pace of global warming.
The agency proposed to regulate hydrofluorocarbons, or HFCs, a class of man-made chemicals that are thousands of times more potent than carbon dioxide at warming the planet. The proposal is the first significant step the E.P.A. has taken under President Biden to curb climate change.
The move is also the first time the federal government has set national limits on HFCs, which were used to replace ozone-depleting chlorofluorocarbons in the 1980s but have turned out to be a significant driver of global warming. More than a dozen states have either banned HFCs or are formulating some restrictions.
…
Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/climate/EPA-HFCs-hydrofluorocarbons.html
My only question – does the personal stench lower the reproductive success rate for people who follow NYT’s advice? Or do they use the smell to identify fellow believers and mate with each other?
Whatever the answer, lets just say I have no plans to board a rush hour New York subway in the foreseeable future.
There is a further consideration here, whereby although nobody seems to take into consideration the impact to immunity through an increasingly sterile environment (i.e. pollution is one problem, but the opposite is also surely a problem), but wouldn’t it also be the case that with decreased personal hygiene comes the risk of increased ailment?
“Thaks” to lockdowns we are in the situation not to be affected by much bacteria or what ever.
More we are ouside, meeting people, eat in restaurants etc, we live less sterile.
Less hygiene is less a probleme to immunity but to otherones noses.
The real problem is, as usual, exaggerate hygiene. Normal one isn’t a big problem.
Stop reading the rag..New York Slimes…nothing but all the garbage unfit to print
Without the Social Justice Networks we would known nothing of Anthropogenic PLANdemic or such.
I poop into a 2,000 holding tank that costs hunkdkrkekdk$$ to spread, and I promise that TP is cheaper than a bidet or shower bath. I use about 25 squares of single ply per day. Now Milady Wife, a bit more …
I dunno…makes pretty good TP in a pinch
I spent too much time living out of a Pack, Alice, Large and set of OD jungle fatigues taking whores’ bathes to believe there is any good comes from not washing your nasty a$$. College educated morons, on the gripping hand, are quite stupid enough to buy the line that being dirty does not lead to disease. Hell, they merrily banned DDT.
Yes, a bored immune system tends to attack incredibly minor bugs & viruses with such vigour that it often results in asthma type symptoms or worse types of apoplectic reactions.
A small amount of benign dirt is perfectly acceptable in everyday life.
no why the hell would you have “ailments” unless you took it to extremes and or have a parasite issue at home ie fleas lice bedbugs whatever
Toilet paper panic buying wasn’t a result of pandemy but of lockdowns, why ever….
During the February Texas blackout, the water was off for a week. Not taking a shower for that long was quite uncomfortable, and I can only imagine what I smelled like.
Of course, as the Times regards most people to be smelly peasants, they should literally be that way “for the good of the Earth”.
All others had the same problem, in so far, who cares ? 😀
Just when I thought the level of climate clown show silliness had peaked …
Its like trying to find the lowest possible number. No matter how low you set the mark, there is always something lower.
And we seem to be catering to the societal LCD.
Thank God we have the far left to tell us how to live! Imagine taking all their advice, how one would be living nowadays, HA! HA! HA! They are worse than even new agers.
If these idiots want to lower their carbon footprints, get off Twatter and FarceBook, don’t stop washing
The footprint of FarceBookers is no longer hidden.
Does this person swim in circles?
maybe they should just dig a pit and fill it with water…
then they can wallow at their leisure.
This might work. Millennial Men already look disgusting, which has pushed the birth rate, marriage, and procreation much Lowe in just a generation. Now if they all start smelling and have feces all over their underwear, people would likely stop having babies completely. A world with no humans can’t blame humans when the climate changes without them.
All I can think of is those really smelly hippies at college that you didn’t want to sit next to, or even look at.
Lux,
THAT was a combination of patchouli and body odor; I’m not sure which was used to cover which!
NOW think neo-homelessness as the fragrance; hopefully the Greentards won’t drop a deuce in the street to save the planet!
I remember several years ago when I had no power for about 6 days (after a hurricane) and how thankful I was that the weather wasn’t hot (it was in late August). That, and I had a gym membership at the time and was able to shower at the gym.
That said, I usually shower every two days in winter (when I seldom get hot and sweaty) but have to do so daily in the mid-Atlantic summer humidity. And if I didn’t shower daily in summer I’d use up just about as much water as I’d have to wash my bedding much more often!
As for the toilet paper, a bidet might not be a bad idea (reminds me of when I went to England as a child and I asked my mom when we checked into our hotel why there were “two toilets” in there…) but you still need to dry off after rinsing. Unless you get one of those fancy ones with an air dryer….
Why the climate change movement is really a death cult: All the modern amenities for food, health, clothing, are capitalist luxuries. We must save the planet by returning to 1750’s mortality rates and poverty, reducing the human population by 90%.
This is what the death cultists mean. It is what they say almost daily. It is obviously an exaggerated over-ask, but the cult’s true believers do believe it. It is why they are dangerous. They will kill you and take your things because they are making phantom victims and everyone else is the oppressor — it is only climate justice.
Playing the victim justifies any barbarism. Climate justice is just homocidal revenge for contrived, imagined harm by a false stereotype aggressor against a fictional victim class.
Dangit, Eric, you’ve encouraged me to confess again. In Argentina, where I live most of the year, it was the law that every toilet be accompanied by a bidet (for the non-French, uncultured amongst you, this is like a toilet but sprays water upward when you sit on it). Of course our guest bathroom has one, and the tendency of visitors from the USA to try this out produces clear and unmistakable verbal responses, which causes me to go outside and play with the dogs for awhile. But no TP and the bidet only once a day? Now that is a climate catastrophe for sure as the gases are almost greenhouse types.
I recently purchased a bidet, after I had gotten one for my mom who had had shoulder surgery, and for months was unable to reach behind her. Problem solved, and I had occasion to try it myself, hence my decision to forgo TP. Great decision!
The only problem is that my wife refuses to try it.
I know I’m late to this thread, but dare I remind everyone of the scene in “Crocodile Dundee”, where upon checking into the N. Y. C. hotel, Mick says to Sue,
“Mick: Hey, Sue! Some bloke put two dunnees* in here!
Sue: One dunnee, one bidet.”
At which point Mick asks what it is for. Sue begs off, advising him to ‘figure it out for yourself’.
As Sue reaches the street, Mick has opened the window, and shouts, “For washing your backside!” which Sue acknowledges.
Regards to all,
Vlad
*sorry for any mis-spelling, I’m taking a wild guess at the spelling of ‘dunnee’
I’d post the video clip, but I’m not that tech-savvy; maybe someone here can do it … …
The Progressive agenda to repeal the 20th century. Enjoy.
And possibly even the 19th and 18th for good measure!
Well, we could always go back to the really good old days and build outhouses. Sears catalogue worked well for toilet paper, but I guess we’d have to think of something else.
With online shopping, I really don’t think you want to use your mouse. So we’re still stuck looking for something else.
.
.
Hey! Howz ’bout all those old National Geographic Magazines that no one would throw away? There are probably enough to last for two or three generations.
(My grandparents were like that. They had all of the back issues to 1906 when they started subscribing to National Geographic.)
As I remember, the outhouse on grandpa’s farm was well supplied with corncobs. Been a long time, and I don’t know what modern harvesting does with corncobs.
A single issue of the NYT could serve a family of 3.65 for like a month, give better service than the original intended purpose, and considering content, be properly disposed of in this manner. Unfortunately, you’d still need to clean yourself after.
We just need to convince the leftist to wipe their rears with their iPhones.
If we’re going to limit showers we should also stop turning trees into paper, printing the news on them and driving them around with GHG emitting vehicles for delivery. Not sure why the Times hasn’t mentioned that.
Eric,
Leftist policies that make it easier to separate the sheep from the goats! Maybe that’s a bad analogy as we are speaking of smelly sheep here, but it WILL make it much easier to discern who is a mindnumbed alarmist, and who is a potentially viable mate for perpetuating humanity!
Of course, distinguishing the alarmists from the homeless, and those with severe drug and alcohol problems, may be difficult; but no one ever said life is without challenges! I’m just thankful that my dating days are long behind me; it’s SO much more difficult to find a good’un now. Birkenstocks and patchouli oil used to be good down vote criteria; I’m not sure what constitutes good choices today!
Does this mean the Millionaire publisher will no longer use toilet paper and skip showers while he continues to attend his daily cocktail lunches in fancy restaurants?
The answer to your final question is undoubtedly ‘yes’. Robin’s love life will have had a serious dent. But hey, that will preclude her from having more kids, thus helping the planet even more.
I can see a future with special councelling services for people who took up ludicrous life-style ideas, to wean them off them. After they have realised that there is no climate emergency, that the climate does not need to be protected from them, and that they had fallen for a cruel hoax.
At least they will be easy to identify.
That’s hardly praising those people.
What a shame you missed the far bigger story about lithium and how people are (justifiably) worried that it will ruin the environment: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/business/the-electric-vehicle-race-is-creating-a-gold-rush-for-lithium-raising-environmental-concerns.html?searchResultPosition=1
Down with mathematics, a racist discipline!
The Modern Science of Climate Change is definitely wielded as a Weapon of Maths Destruction
This is something to think about, but perhaps not actually do.
It raises a question, though. As time “T” between washings increases, presumably stink “S” will also increase, perhaps non-linearly, but it can’t just keep increasing forever.
So, at some point, given fairly constant bacterial and other conditions, the stink-curve would have to flatten-out.
So, I hereby propose the term “stinquilibrium” to define that place (determined by time and conditions) where the curve flattens.
Early astronauts and others in harsh environments probably know a great deal about this.
And, thanks to modern technology, “S” can be measured with a smell-o-meter, so the S-curve, if it exists, could in fact be plotted. Science!
My own personal “smell-o-meter” is built-in, came with the package. However, it is subject to de-sensitization/saturation/hysteresis drift, and needs to be periodically re-calibrated to provide meaningful data. I may purchase an OMX-SRM to include in my stable of various meters and sensors. I could then experiment on myself or a good friend, perhaps when I’m next on holiday and can isolate.
“Don’t get me wrong,” said Ms. Harper, 43, “I stink like a pig, but hey! gotta save the planet”
“The new practice felt environmentally virtuous, practical and freeing.”
Glad it feels that way, but back in the real world, you have in fact become a lazy person with questionable personal hygiene.
People have lost the freaking plot.
So people from the First Church of Climate Zealots stink in more ways than ideologically.
Wearing masks will not be anymore mandatory, but truly essential.
For the first time since they’ve kept records California decreased in population in 2020. Turns out people (and businesses/jobs) don’t like blackouts while paying sky-high rates for electricity.
It is really more a function of how physically active you are, which determines whether you both need and want a shower. After doing heavy work like landscaping, carpentry, or other, and also after exercise, whether indoor or outdoor, you are going to want a shower, and immediately. Even after sweat dries, it leaves a clammy layer on the skin which feels uncomfortable, never mind how it smells.
Prelude to the Morlocks… the diverse clumps from the Twilight Fringe. Abort the Eloi, cannibalize their profitable parts, and sequester their carbon pollutants.
Next up, dumpster-diving for food and other stuff people throw out. So what if you smell like garbage? Can’t be any worse, and besides, you are saving the planet. Win-win!
Ridicule is a potent weapon against Green nonsense. More, please.
I take exception to to the phrase “personal stench”. I have my own “personal musk” that has certain peaty overtones, thank you very much. 😉
If you say so.
So, we’ll have a return of ‘the stench of piety’ of the Middle Ages. This time for the Green Religion.
Eric
Doesn’t look like the old UK “APC” got a mention –
Wash “armpits and crutch”
Several years ago an actress suggested only using one sheet of toilet paper (about 5 inches square) to wipe one’s anus after using the toilet. After several years of such a practice, what would she smell like? Has she ever suffered from diarrhea? All the Charmin bears will be holding their noses!
Back in February 1980, I moved from New Jersey to Houston, TX, and when summer came, I would set the air-conditioning to 70 degrees, but later set it to 77 degrees after seeing unaffordable electric bills. At 77 degrees, the A/C would run most of the day, but turn off at night, cutting the electric bill by about half.
Why not let the free market determine how much air conditioning we should use?
Also, the hydrofluorocarbons used today have less effect on the ozone layer than the chlorofluorocarbons which were banned in the 1980’s. The average air conditioner only has a few pounds of refrigerant which circulates through the compressor, cooler, JT valve, and chiller (which re-evaporates the refrigerant) in a closed loop. A well-maintained air conditioner with only tiny leaks usually needs a refrigerant refill once a year or less, so will not emit much HFC’s. Most of the HFC emissions are due to leaky, poorly-maintained air conditioners or refrigerators.
Even if HFC’s have higher IR adsorption coefficients than CO2, their concentrations in the atmosphere are much lower, since emissions from leaky air conditioners (on a national scale) are likely measured in thousands of tons per year, as compared to billions of tons per year for CO2. The effect of HFC’s on the climate is much LESS than that of CO2, which itself is not much.
Hermetic refrigeration equipment should never need additional refrigerant for the life of the equipment. As a retired refrigeration service engineer I state this with authority. The heatpump I installed in my current home 10 yrs ago is still tight and problem free.
(probably goes toes up now that I bragged on it)
G’Day Mark, how’s your memory?
Going back a few years, a GE refrigerator with the motor and compressor mounted in a ball on top of the body. Ammonia for a working fluid. Now when that developed a leak, the family knew all about it.
(Dad, “Don’t call it a ‘Frig’, that’s that other mob.” He worked for Australian General Electric.)
I think you are remembering sulfur dioxide as the working fluid. Very efficient. Yes you knew when it leaked LOL
G’Day Mark,
It was ammonia. Dad worked as a frig tech till he got his degree in ’48. It was a non-working “trade-in”. He repaired it in his spare time and got it for free – no more daily ice deliveries. (At least the iceman had a motor vehicle, our bread deliveries were with a horse drawn cart, rubber tires.)
That was in 1947. One failure in the mid 50’s. It was still working in ’74 when the house was sold. They don’t make them like that any more.
This is not surprising. The Old Gray Lady died years ago and has been stinking ever since.
The older I get the more I have come to realize there is something to be said for a bidet.
A bidet is one of those things Americans don’t get until tried. Then you find out there is a better way than scraping your rear end with a piece of wood. Bidet on a sailboat makes maintaining the head a lot less difficult.
This sounds like a problem with its own solution. The only thing bad about it is that it’ll take a whole generation for them to go extinct.
I have Amish friends and they aren’t going extinct.
SHUN ICKY
pierced, unwashed, tattooed, cursed of Ham and Cain, stupid,
Hey, Karl Marx had poor hygiene and look how successful he was!
Wait a minute…
Hey, he started one of the biggest religious movements ever known! Just because he never worked a real job, it doesn’t mean he was out of touch with the working class! I understand he got very close to the hired help; like Ahnold!
In fairness, daily bathing/showering is a uniquely American obsession – and not necessarily entirely good for your health. Our predecessors bathed much less frequently and yet mostly failed to die from it.
Giving up on toilet paper, though… Yeah, there are some health and sanitation arguments in favor of bidets but I’ve never learned to like those. And, of course, bidets are dependent on both water and power where toilet paper can be used in an unpowered outhouse.
Nah. It’s the same in Australia and much more than it was 30 years ago in the UK these days.
If you get a chance, find a copy of “The specialist” by Charles Sale 1929. His specialty – outhouses.
I wasn’t sure of the chaps last name – and blow me down – it’s available as a pdf:
https://www.toiletrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Specialist-by-Charles-Sale.pdf
Enjoy…..
“Not dying” isn’t the standard. I don’t think there are many people who think that not showering will kill you… but does make you stink much more rapidly than people think.
Me, I’m glad for this “uniquely American obsession.” But it’s not even that. There are quite a few countries where people shower daily.
The stench of piety. Yet another manifestation proving this is just another false religion.
How can you spot a NYT reader? By the toilet paper hanging out to dry.
For some odd reason many leftists have convinced themselves that everything about modernity is negative, thus they want everyone to revert to the 17th Century. I really would prefer to not have a life expectancy that is half of what we have today. If the entire staff of the NYT wants to stink, that’s fine with me. I will stay upwind of them.
My son is one of those who will often have more than one shower a day, we don’t live in a tropical or humid country nor does he do physical work. But he does empty a 400litre tank of hot water each and every time.
It would cost an absolute fortune if we didn’t have the solar panels, as it is the weather here is often crap so many times the hot water is costly!
Make him pay the bills.
Where I grew it was not uncommon to use the newspaper as toilet paper. This could prove an excellent – and probably only – use for the NYT.
That’s ok when the toilet is not flushed into a sewer pipeline.
Newspaper and others apart from toilet paper must not be flushed down.
But it’s already covered in crap.
“But what is the point of sacrificing your personal hygiene, if your air conditioner is obliterating your carbon savings” The real solution is to ignore the carbon footprint. It doesn’t matter. Live your life and don’t be paranoid about how much carbon you might be responsible for.
You are the carbon they want to reduce.
Our country is going insane. Thanks, NY Times. We owe it all to you.
Greg Gutfeld takes on the subject in question in his monolog.
Greg Gutfeld: As New York Times editors claim not to take baths, the paper actually is | Fox News
You mean New York hasn’t mastered the use of the three sea shells yet?
In the old days we had a bath once a week, bath night. Get the zinc bath out, boil the water, the whole family bathed in turns, in the same water.
But anyway, who needs to shower more than twice a week in winter anyway? It isnt as if you sweat.
Yeah, I’m really glad we don’t do that anymore. Nostalgia isn’t always a good thing.
And most people should shower more often than they think they need to.
Re toileting…..
Why You Should Wipe Yourself With A Goose’s Neck
“You will thereby feel in your nockhole a most wonderful pleasure.” —Francois Rabelais, Gargantua and Pantagruel
In A Nutshell
In the early 16th century, French monk Francois Rabelais released his famous comic work Gargantua and Pantagruel. A satire on (among other things) Renaissance learning and the Europe of the time, it nonetheless contained plenty of digressions on all sorts of odd topics. The oddest of these would probably be the passage where Rabelais recommends a goose’s neck as an ideal alternative to toilet paper.
The Whole Bushel
Gargantua and Pantagruel is a book that has to be read to be believed. Written in the 16th century by a French monk, it still somehow manages to be cruder than an entire season of South Park. Ostensibly the tale of two giants and their misadventures in a grotesque version of Europe, it’s also famous for its long passages giving advice on everything from managing debt to foretelling the future. But the passage everyone remembers is the one about the goose.
In Chapter 13 of the first book, the characters take time out to discuss the best method for wiping oneself without toilet paper. After a long and heated debate on the merits of using everything from old hats to attorney’s bags to a spare slipper, they finally settle on the feathers of a goose. But they don’t mean any old feathers; they specifically mean the feathers of a goose’s neck. And for best results, they should still be attached to the goose. According to the book:
“But, to conclude, I say and maintain, that of all torcheculs, arsewisps, bumfodders, tail-napkins, bunghole cleansers, and wipe-breeches, there is none in the world comparable to the neck of a goose, that is well downed, if you hold her head betwixt your legs. And believe me therein upon mine honour, for you will thereby feel in your nockhole a most wonderful pleasure, both in regard of the softness of the said down and of the temporate heat of the goose, which is easily communicated to the bum-gut and the rest the inwards, in so far as to come even to the regions of the heart and brains.”
Quite why Rabelais settled on a goose has long been a matter for critical debate. Some have seen the whole discussion as emblematic of the “new era” of the Renaissance, when old certainties were washed away and the purpose of everything had to be rediscovered afresh. Others think it’s simply the perfect way to crown a diabolically funny scene. One thing’s for sure: Next time you get caught short in the woods, you’ll know to keep an eye out for any wandering geese.
Acknowledgements to KnowledgeNuts
loving the hysterics on this one;-)
it wasnt at all Normal..to be able to have the luxury of daily bathing let alone showers for many even 1st world nations until the 60s or 70s
and many people even now have to think and limit water use for many reasons
no town water/low supplies in reservoirs etc
that doesnt preclude a needed 3 point washover but sure would save a lot of power and water use
and unless youre an actual working person in manual labour?
by the time youre saturated in all the perfumes deoderants etc body odour isnt likely for days anyway.
Im always amazed at the claims of 2 n 3 showers a day from the obsessive compulsives, and anyone else for that matter.
Bidets might be good but theyre damned expensive mean more plumbing and waste even more water
How can water be wasted? Endlessly recycled.
When I was young, my father took our family to a third world country that didn’t have running water or toilet paper for a few years. Life expectancy was around mid 40’s. So when I had kids, I did the same, but in that country there were the rich with running water and the poor without. The poor still died in there mid 40’s from various causes, while the rich live to there 70’s. We all five of us have strong immune systems despite this.
I treasure my showers, like I treasure toilet paper. Living off grid, our water is recycled.
Leftards are always smelly.
If they ban toilet paper, we may finally have a use for the print edition of the New York Times.
The elites of course will have their air conditioning because as John Kerry said in effect, they are involved in important business for us and have a larger foot print for that reason. Or as I like to think, submit peasants to what we generously offer.
Isn’t the logic of the climate alarmists amusing, if not downright pitiful? The same crowd that demands excessive hand sanitization is now opting not to bathe the rest of their bodies in accordance with 21st century standards. Well, I will agree with them on one mitigation measure – social distancing. Let’s double or triple that.
The more you stay at home, the more depressed you get.
The more depressed you get, the less you shower.
the liberal stink…. now it makes sense.
Well, people are not going to a workplace, many are depressed.
Many people will have skin problems and infections if they do not wash.
Eco-idiots keep trying. They have a way of thinking, some clearly have criminal minds.
(Review: Inside the Criminal Mind by Stanton Samenow, Ph.D. (2014 edition) (drhurd.com)
Regarding HFCs, arent they used in heat pumps as well?