Alps Winter Warming “Not Significant”…”Astonishing Contrast Between Official Measurements And Public Opinion”

Reposted from The NoTricksZone

By P Gosselin on 27. April 2021Share this…

The temperature data from 12 mountain stations in the European Alps show no winter warming in over 30 years, contradicting alarmist claims. 

Austrian researcher skeptic Günther Aigner examined 12 mountains stations across the Alps, spanning Switzerland, Germany and Austria, in order to find out how winter temperatures have developed over the past 50 years.

“Slight increase of only 0.7°C”…”not statistically significant.”

With an Arnold Schwarzenegger accent, Aigner presents his results for the first time in English:

Winter temperature trends are of great importance for the Alps multi-billion dollar ski industry and so reliable data are crucial for planning for the future.

According to global warming alarmists, skiing in the Alps should have fried away by now, and the Arctic ice-free in the summertime. But they haven’t – and Aigner explains why.

Winter temperature dropped from early 1990s to 2010

Looking at the very reliable winter data available from the Swiss, German and Austrian meteorological services, which were diligently recorded at these stations, they show only a modest amount of warming since 1971.

Shown are the winter temperature mean anomalies for the 12 mountain stations. The green curve is the 10-year running average, the white dashed line is the linear trendline. 

Reality versus public perception

“There’s an astonishing contrast between official measurements and public opinion,” says Aigner. “The linear trend shows a slight increase of only 0.7°C – which is not statistically significant.”

No winter rise in 30 years

And if we do not include the cold period of the 1970s, there’s been no warming over the past 30 years. As Aigner points out, the winter mean temperature for the 12 mountain stations fell some 2°C from about 1992 to 2011.

So it can’t be just CO2 running the show.

In the end, Aigner implies  no one really needs to worry about skiing ending in the Alps anytime soon. The warming that the Alps have seen over the recent decades has happened mostly in the summer and spring months, the video reminds.

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dk_
April 28, 2021 6:07 am

“With an Arnold Schwarzenegger accent” Really?
Probably what Alpine skiiers will have to worry about is variations in snowfall. It will be othing new, “Otzi” found it difficult to deal with, 5000 years ago (along with being shot at).

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  dk_
April 28, 2021 6:14 am

He too, will be back.

dk_
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
April 28, 2021 6:27 am

Literally hundreds of thousands of people from Bavaria, Austria, and Switzerland, speaking knowledgeably about technical subjects in English, over several centuries, and the Governator gets to name brand a German accent.

Leo Smith
Reply to  dk_
April 28, 2021 6:55 am

Thats an Austrian or Bavarian accent. Norhge and central germany is very differnt

Gerald
Reply to  Leo Smith
April 28, 2021 7:34 am

It’s not just an Austrian accent. As a native Austrian I can tell you first hand, that It’s a specific one from Austrian province of Styria where also Schwarzenegger is coming from. So, yes the comparison with Schwarzeneggers accent (not the one he has now, after decades living in the US, but the one he had in his first movies like “Hercules in New York”) is very true.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Leo Smith
April 28, 2021 8:24 am

It’s all the same to Americans.

François
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 28, 2021 1:19 pm

Somehow, from ’40 to ’44, they all sounded alike.

M Courtney
April 28, 2021 6:22 am

There’s really no meaning behind trends in temperature anomalies without also including the variance in the anomaly.
And even then there needs to be a reason to think that has ever been a stable point to be anomalous about.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  M Courtney
April 28, 2021 10:17 am

Not only that but the variation needs to be referenced to the absolute temperature. A variation between 20C and 20.7C is far different that a variation of 0.7C from a baseline of zero.

Duane
Reply to  Tim Gorman
April 28, 2021 10:35 am

Actually, to determine variation and the numeric significance thereof, one needs to use degrees kelvin, not degrees C. 0 degrees C is 273.15. Zero point seven degrees variation ut of 273 is very different from zero point seven degrees out of 20.

Newminster
Reply to  Duane
April 28, 2021 11:40 am

0°C is an artificial construct designed to make temperature understandable. At 0 water freezes; at 100 it boils (and that’s not strictly accurate either). Whether or not it is more or less understandable to the layman is not the issue; the only accurate measure of temperature and temperature variation uses Kelvin as its starting point.

It would at least partially cure the problem of having people believe that 10°C is “twice as warm” as 5°C and then developing a serious headache when faced with 41°F and 50°F!

boffin77
Reply to  Tim Gorman
April 28, 2021 10:07 pm

References to Deg K is only slightly more relevant than a reference to deg C. Ideally the variance should be compared to variances of similar period within this epoch of the ice age cycle but that is currently impossible. Perhaps the best achievable reference is to variance over similar time periods in the past. The above graph shows a period of about 28 years, so compare it to variations over similar periods in the past, using spectrograms for example.

Ian Magness
April 28, 2021 6:44 am

“The warming that the Alps have seen over the recent decades has happened mostly in the summer and spring months, the video reminds.”
It’s a real shame that the researcher and this organisation didn’t subject that idea to the same sort of analysis and don’t give us any illustrative data. Why does this make a British sceptic suspicious? Because as many analyses have shown (see notalotofpeopleknowthat passim), in Britain, if any temperature datasets have risen it is winter ones, not spring or summer. OK so average British latitudes and altitudes (especially) are not the same as the Alps but we are broadly in the same part of the globe so I’m struggling to think why the overall area temperature trends would so obviously diverge in a global warming scenario. Given the same, rigorous analysis, I wouldn’t be at all surprised that the “please note, we really still believe in global warming” statement proved unsubstantiated.

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Ian Magness
April 28, 2021 7:25 am

Different areas are different, subjected to different patterns, and they do confirm small increase.
Seems like an entirely reasonable thing to me

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
April 28, 2021 10:18 am

And some confirm a small decrease. So how then it is “global”?

rhb2
Reply to  Ian Magness
April 28, 2021 9:15 am

I would think that British temperatures are highly influenced by ocean currents and Alpine temperatures are not.

BobM
Reply to  rhb2
April 28, 2021 6:21 pm

Are there any mountains in Britain anywhere near as high as the Alps? Seems Britain and the Alps would have completely different climates.

john harmsworth
Reply to  Ian Magness
April 29, 2021 9:34 am

I was under the impression that it is more like winter overnight lows are higher and daytime summer highs are about the same. In most places around the world. Is this not so?

Juan Slayton
April 28, 2021 6:50 am

I found this video to be unusually clear in explaining the source of the data and interpreting the graph. At the end they present what seem on first viewing to be pages of disclaimers, including a warning against drawing conclusions about climate change. I say ‘seem on first viewing’ because they don’t actually give you time to read the text. So keep your cursor on the pause key as you approach the end….

Kevin kilty
April 28, 2021 6:59 am

So. No sign of a water vapor enhanced warming via a change of lapse rate, eh?

I just finished viewing the Andrew Bolt comment and it has put me in a funk. All I can do at present is absorb each day the endless fakery on the official news outlets; and ponder what I know from my education and experience, and the view of things around me which counters the official falsehoods. What will straighten out this world-wide mental illness?

Data doesn’t seem to matter.

Last edited 5 months ago by Kevin kilty
Reply to  Kevin kilty
April 28, 2021 7:49 am

“What will straighten out this world-wide mental illness?”

Gavin Schmidt, Kevin Trenberth, Michael Mann and others need to be publicly exposed and humiliated for their lack of scientific due dilliigence by being compelled to support the IPCC’s climate sensitivity using any of the known laws of physics. BTW, feedback is not a law of physics, but is a property that can only be legitimately ascribed to active, linear, feedback amplifiers while the climate system is neither linear nor an active amplifier (i.e. it has no internal supply of Joules to power the amplification).

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 28, 2021 8:29 am

Apparently a lot of people are trying to expose them, such as this blog site- but most of the world isn’t paying attention- probably too busy watching that Biden Zoom thing with world leaders and his guests, politically correct youngsters. If the world can’t see a problem with that video- they surely won’t doubt the primary preachers and prophets of climate doom.

Mr.
Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 28, 2021 8:51 am

Those 3 are just a few of the “useful idiots” that, together with politicians, are weaponized by megalomaniacs like Soros, Bloomberg etc al to impose their social engineering bullshit on us all.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Mr.
April 28, 2021 12:15 pm

As time marches on, sooner or later, people are going to recognize that all these predictions were not only bogus but probably fraudulent also. The blowback will be tremendous for science/scientists, teachers, the media, and of course, politicians. The public is going to learn that scientists are not soothsayers, teachers are simple bots with no knowledge of their own, media are experts at nothing, and politicians are grifters willing to use any excuse possible to expand their wealth, power, and control. I fear for my grandkids because the aftermath will not be pretty.

Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 28, 2021 11:42 am

Excerpt from my paper
CLIMATE CHANGE, COVID-19, AND THE GREAT RESET  Update 1d  
“Rode and Fischbeck, professor of Social & Decision Sciences and Engineering & Public Policy, collected 79 predictions of climate-caused apocalypse going back to the first Earth Day in 1970. With the passage of time, many of these forecasts have since expired; the dates have come and gone uneventfully. In fact, 48 (61%) of the predictions have already expired as of the end of 2020.”
 
Climate doomsters have a perfect NEGATIVE predictive track record – every very-scary climate prediction, of the ~80 they have made since 1970, has FAILED TO HAPPEN.
 
Fully 48 of these predictions expired at the end of 2020. Never happened! Never will!
What are the odds at 50:50 per prediction? 3.6*10^-15 = 0.0000000000000036
 
So the climate doomsters were wrong in their very-scary climate predictions 48 times in a row – at 50:50 odds that’s like flipping a coin 48 times and losing every time! The odds against that being mere random stupidity are a gazillion to 1. It’s not just scientists being stupid.
 
No, these climate doomsters were not telling the truth – they displayed a dishonest bias in their analyses that caused these extremely improbable errors – they knew they were lying.
 
There is a powerful logic that says no rational person or group could be this wrong for this long; they followed a corrupt agenda, and they lied again and again. 

Jim Gorman
Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 28, 2021 11:51 am

You forgot the “back radiation” supply of energy to drive the additional amplification! /sarc

Reply to  Jim Gorman
April 29, 2021 7:27 am

Oh yea, the output of a magic energy source called the atmosphere that as a trace gas increases, the total energy of the system increases without bound…

john harmsworth
Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 29, 2021 9:41 am

They have been exposed several times. The result is sound in a vacuum as the media utterly ignores it and no one hears about it. If a story of scientific foul play does crack the news the response is a firestorm of fellow liars and con men on every media outlet launching personal attacks on their scientific colleagues. It always disappoints me that people in other disciplines don’t step up to call out the political and personal attacks that are such a detriment to science. One would expect some people to have some integrity on behalf of scientific principles.

Reply to  john harmsworth
April 30, 2021 9:33 am

Yes, we know how wrong they are. but the rest of the world doesn’t because of a corrupt, politically biased media. We need a dramatic spectacle for the rest of the world to notice that the truth isn’t what they are being told it is.

Compel a string of alarmist scientists to testify before the Congressional subcommittee on Science and Technology, Stipulate up front that CO2 is a GHG, GHG’s make the surface warmer than it would be otherwise, man is increasing atmospheric CO2, the temperature is changing, as it always has and always will, that there’s no need to waste time justifying any of these things that we already agree on and emphasize that the size of the climate sensitivity is all that really separates the two sides of the issue. This will diffuse their entire body of ‘support’ leaving them only to support the PHYSICAL connection between CO2 and catastrophic climate change, i.e. they must justify the IPCC’s physics defying sensitivity using the laws of physics and not by conflating coincidence with causality.

They will fail every time when challenged to support where the IPCC went horribly wrong with their ‘settled’ science by claiming that nebulous positive feedback ‘amplifies’ the derivative of the SB Law, thus changing the law itself, in defiance of COE. Take feedback away and their entire case falls apart.

Such a demand for justification is surely appropriate given that the Socialists in Congress want to spend trillions of dollars addressing the possibility of catastrophic climate change. It’s a prudent fiduciary duty for them to definitively justify their support for such economically detrimental policies. The Congressional supporters of alarmism think they are right, and would likely agree to this kind of testimony from their climate alarmist brain trust falsely thinking that they have the science on their side. Little do they know …

Steve Case
Reply to  Kevin kilty
April 28, 2021 8:16 am

Data doesn’t seem to matter.

Of course data matters, it’s just that it isn’t static but subject to change so it fits the narrative. It’s a tool like an artist’s pallet and brush creating the desired image. What was said then doesn’t necessarily need to match what is being said today.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Steve Case
April 28, 2021 8:30 am

“hide the decline”

Peta of Newark
Reply to  Kevin kilty
April 28, 2021 8:51 am

Question:”What will straighten out this world-wide mental illness?

Not exactly world-wide, but truly endemic in The West

Answer: The exact same thing that was known, a century ago, to reverse and cure Type 2 Diabetes
(Also= a near perfect preventative for the likes of Covid 19)

Namely: The Ketogenic Diet
See here

Also nil zilch zero nada of:
alcohol & cannabis
Also none of all other other depressants
e.g. Main Stream Media, BBC, Grauniad, Soap Opera TV

Donald Trump was/is your exemplar

Last edited 5 months ago by Peta of Newark
stinkerp
Reply to  Kevin kilty
April 28, 2021 9:26 am

Only feelings matter. Thinking is hard. Emoting is natural and probably organic so it’s gotta be good.

Last edited 5 months ago by stinkerp
fretslider
Reply to  Kevin kilty
April 28, 2021 10:03 am

What will straighten out this world-wide mental illness?

I fear there is no cure for many…

Racked with guilt and grief and climate despair – how do we go on!?
Racked with guilt and grief and climate despair – how do we go on!? | First Dog on the Moon | The Guardian

April 28, 2021 7:05 am

It would seem from this and other evidence that there has been no warming this century and possibly cooling. When does the coming ice age scare come again? At least that appears much more likely, sometime in the next 100 millennials or so.

KevinM
Reply to  Rick
April 28, 2021 7:50 am

Statistically there is no temperature change since satellite data has been available.

On a related topic, why do we use Celsius and Fahrenheit in these analyses. Zero Kelvin is the most valid reference for temperature, if temperature is a valid metric ata all.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  KevinM
April 28, 2021 8:26 am

Because the climastrologers falsely believe that by subtracting a baseline “anomaly” value, the error due to the underlying temperature measurements is reduced/eliminated.

Steve Case
Reply to  KevinM
April 28, 2021 8:27 am

BINGO! All academic papers should use Kelvin.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  KevinM
April 28, 2021 8:36 am

Few people ever heard of the Kelvin scale- though most here have. Using it would be better since the trivial change in temperature in the past few centuries would look even smaller on that larger scale.

TonyG
April 28, 2021 7:07 am

“There’s an astonishing contrast between official measurements and public opinion,”

This is so often (usually?) the case. Consider Covid hospitalization rates, where large numbers of people think 50% or more of covid cases wind up in hospitals, when the actual numbers are closer to 5%. I wonder if “public opinion” in this case is as politically divided as in the covid case.

Reply to  TonyG
April 28, 2021 7:29 am

When people don’t understand the how and why of something (in this case science), the fear of what they don’t know makes them vulnerable to accept the likelihood of impossible worst case consequences, especially when fear mongers justify them with ubiquitous misinformation and the omission of pertinent facts.

Climate believer
April 28, 2021 7:30 am

Errr… his job is to convince people to go skiing in the Alps.

From his website:
He is one of the leading futurologists in the field of alpine ski tourism in German-speaking countries. Aigner has been a full-time ski tourism researcher since August 2014.

Feels kinda weird to me, but then a lot of things do at the moment.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
April 28, 2021 7:33 am

In January of 1987 I traveled to Innsbruck, Austria with my cross-country skis for a bracing winter vacation. That turned out to be a snowless winter in the Alps, there was drizzly rain and sun and the only skiing was on a glacier overlooking Switzerland. Instead of winter sport I rode horses and hiked, still a great holiday. Back in the US JFK was snowed in and the western ski resorts were reveling in fresh snowfall and excellent skiing. Weather is changeable, no big deal.

Michael in Dublin
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
April 28, 2021 8:15 am

I think that climate alarmists deliberately confuse weather and climate. I grew up in a hot semi-desert area and recall looking at data in the mid sixties. We had hotter summers than they have had over the past decade – despite the claims that it is getting hotter and drier!!!

Peter Reay
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
April 28, 2021 10:17 pm

LOL. I had the opposite experience in Kitzbühel in the early 80’s. Daytime high temperatures were peaking at -8 to -14 Celsius. Hardly anybody was skiing, too cold! The Scandinavians and I had the mountains to ourselves (I never lined up for a chairlift or gondola). Got in a lot of dynamite skiing that week.

Olen
April 28, 2021 7:42 am

As for snow in the Alps, Yogi Berra said “predictions are hard especially about the future.”

I knew some people who came over on the Lusitania and 50 years later one went back to Norway with a church group as their interpreter. When they got there he found he could not communicate because he could no longer speak the language but he still spoke with an accent. Sorry, couldn’t resist the Arnold comparison of accent.

KevinM
April 28, 2021 7:42 am

 examined 12 mountains stations across the Alps”
out of how may available?

According to global warming alarmists, skiing in the Alps should have fried away by now”
citation?

“if we do not include the cold period of the 1970s, there’s been no warming over the past 30 years”
Its 2021. Why mention the 70’s if you already restricted to 30 years.

EdB
Reply to  KevinM
April 28, 2021 7:47 am

Why not 130 years?

fretslider
Reply to  KevinM
April 28, 2021 10:05 am

Er,  to be able to draw any conclusions from the data you need a period of at least 30 years. There are no other restrictions.

Last edited 5 months ago by fretslider
fred250
Reply to  KevinM
April 28, 2021 12:49 pm

You do know that the late 1970s was probably the very coldest period since the 1940’s in the NH.

The very bottom of the AMO cycle

Arctic sea ice was at extreme high levels similar to those of the LIA !

Glacier were advancing..

The the global COOLING scare-mongering was in full swing.

fretslider
April 28, 2021 8:22 am

Once again, the climate alarmists lost out to a virus…

A GROUP of British ski instructors have been blamed for an outbreak of coronavirus in the Austrian Alps following weeks of non-stop partying. 

Brit ski instructors blamed for Covid outbreak in the Alps after having non-stop parties even when catching virus (thesun.co.uk)

That’s how you close the ski slopes down.

Last edited 5 months ago by fretslider
Nelson
April 28, 2021 8:43 am

Surely the AMO cycle has some impact on the Alps. The data starts during the cold phase and ends as we start to descend into the next cold phase. The data looks about like I would expect.

fred250
Reply to  Nelson
April 28, 2021 12:49 pm

yes

comment image

griff
April 28, 2021 8:49 am

And yet they are sufficiently concerned to be wrapping their melting glaciers with tin foil…

Dave Andrews
Reply to  griff
April 28, 2021 9:18 am

Hey Griff, tell me where I can get some of that glacier size tinfoil. Will come in handy next Xmas.

fred250
Reply to  griff
April 28, 2021 12:50 pm

poor girff… is worried about the cost of tin foil !

Needs it all for himself.

Basement needs more lining.

Last edited 5 months ago by fred250
Martin
April 28, 2021 9:10 am

“Global Warming” will kill the ski industry well before the snow runs out – without ICE vehicles to get to the Alps there will be no happy holiday makers playing in the snow

Roger Tilbury
April 28, 2021 9:16 am

I am still getting snow alerts for Pila in the Alps in N Italy. It’s not that high so very late to still be getting snow. The station has been closed all winter so I have no idea how much snow they have had but I have had regular alerts for the last 5 months.

Tim Bomberg
Reply to  Roger Tilbury
April 29, 2021 12:17 am

Me too (you must have the same App as me) – My daughter skied in Pila at the Anglo Scottish Champs – She trains in Tignes, France (great snow coverage still) I live in the southern French Alps and its snowing at lower levels now and for next week. I competed in International Biathlon from the early 80’s – There were some bad snow seasons then, things seem to have improved of late and this winter particularly has been very cold and snowy across all of Europe, not just the Alps.

Weekly_rise
April 28, 2021 10:30 am

The temperature data from 12 mountain stations in the European Alps show no winter warming in over 30 years, contradicting alarmist claims.

Well, this is wrong. Lack of a statistically significant trend is not the same as the presence of a statistically significant non-trend. The wintertime trend is upward for these stations, we just can’t confirm that this trend couldn’t arise from the random variability in the data.

I confirmed that the annual trend for these stations is both positive and statistically significant, so the only real finding from this article is that spring/summer/autumn temperatures are warming more quickly than winter temps in the Alps.

Reply to  Weekly_rise
April 28, 2021 10:54 am

“so the only real finding from this article is that…”
And perhaps not even that. It is quite possible that the annual rise is significant even if none of the seasonal rises are. At least one of the seasonal rises must be at least as large as the annual. But the variance is likely greater. 

Weekly_rise
Reply to  Nick Stokes
April 28, 2021 11:12 am

Thanks for this clarification – you are right. Here is the result of a trend analysis for the annual mean:

comment image

The annual mean was computed by subsetting this code to run for just the stations indicated in the NoTricksZone article (the winter-time trend computed with this method matches the analysis from the article).

I think it would be interesting to do some kind of by-season look at this region.

bigoilbob
Reply to  Weekly_rise
April 29, 2021 7:08 am

Keep posting these W_r. Sooner or later, it’s bound to result in an epiphany here or there. The only additional stat I like to calc is the chance that the trend is qualitatively wrong. I.e., flat/down instead of up. Here, it’s ~ 0.00000000000293%. The normal goal post move here is to then bluster about the distribution of the individual data points. If you tell us what they are, then the resulting increase in the standard error of the trend can then be calculated. But w.r.t. any real change in the trend durability, it’s like what Frank Semyon/Vince Vaughn told Danny Santos:

“You keep your rings on. Won’t matter to me”.

Last edited 5 months ago by bigoilbob
fred250
Reply to  Weekly_rise
April 28, 2021 12:54 pm

The late 1970s was the COLDEST period since the 1940’s in the NH

The very bottom of the AMO cycle

Weakling wouldn’t know that..

But Nick would…… but still chooses to go with the mis-information

Pity no data back to the 1930s

Weekly_rise
Reply to  fred250
April 28, 2021 1:58 pm

Many of the 12 stations do indeed have data back well before 1930:

comment image

fred250
Reply to  Weekly_rise
April 28, 2021 8:04 pm

adjusted for urban warming, down in the past, up in the present.

Weekly_rise
Reply to  fred250
April 29, 2021 3:37 am

I’ve graphed the raw GHCN data – no adjustments whatsoever.

fred250
Reply to  Weekly_rise
April 30, 2021 2:51 am

ROFLMAO

Yet it has ZERO resemblance to the NON-URBAN temperatures in this article, where 1992 was warmer than 2018

You are a GULLIBLE MORON, weakling!!

Last edited 5 months ago by fred250
Weekly_rise
Reply to  fred250
April 30, 2021 11:31 am

I’ve used exactly the same stations as those in the article, I’m just showing annual averages instead of wintertime only.

2hotel9
Reply to  Weekly_rise
May 1, 2021 3:09 pm

Yea, we get it, climate changes constantly, humans have nothing to do with it. Nice catch, buddy!

fred250
Reply to  Weekly_rise
April 30, 2021 2:57 am

And of course it nothing to do with population , is it twerp.

comment image

fred250
Reply to  Weekly_rise
April 28, 2021 1:17 pm

April 28, 2021 10:48 am

“Astonishing Contrast Between Official Measurements And Public Opinion”
Well, as noted elsewhere, the author is a ski tourism promoter, so maybe he is easily astonished. But all he has established is that there was a rise, but it lacks statistical significance. Now I would be astonished if the public had any opinion about such statistical significance, and the article doesn’t give any evidence of what the public thinks.

The fact is, of course, that with just twelve stations over a relatively short period, you can have a very substantial rise without eliminating the possibility that if the event were repeated somehow, the change might have been zero or negative. That is what the claim means. It also means that the rise might have been twice as great. The fact is that a substantial rise actually happened. 

Last edited 5 months ago by Nick Stokes
Joseph Zorzin
April 28, 2021 11:14 am

Daily Mail: “Earth’s glaciers have shrunk by 267BILLION tonnes per year since 2000”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/earth-s-glaciers-have-shrunk-by-267billion-tonnes-per-year-since-2000/ar-BB1g9cus

“Earth’s glaciers have shrunk by 267billion tonnes per year since 2000 – accounting for up to 21 per cent of rising global sea levels, a new study has warned.
Researchers in France have analysed high resolution maps of over 200,000 glaciers from the past two decades to understand how they have changed. ”

hmmmm…. must be pretty good maps to get such a precise number—- hmmmmm—- me suspicious!

paul courtney
April 28, 2021 11:59 am

That is quite a reverse coincidence. Here in the USA, we have an astonishing contrast between official records adjusted to show it’s warmer than ever, and public opinion (observation, really) that it ain’t.

Vuk
April 28, 2021 12:01 pm

OT

Michael Collins
RIP

fred250
April 28, 2021 12:42 pm

And 1979 was the bottom of the AMO cycle.

Data shows Swiss glaciers increase and decrease in line with the AMO..

comment image

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  fred250
April 28, 2021 7:43 pm

It’s about the amount of snow not temps right?

2hotel9
April 28, 2021 1:01 pm

Did any of these stupor geniuosses ever think that the difference came from better quality thermometers being used than what they used 50 years ago? Or 40 years ago? Or 30 years ago? No? Figured they were too stupid to figure any of it out.

April 28, 2021 1:23 pm

As for the graph showing warming of winters in the Alps by .7 degree C from the winter of 1972-1973 to the one of 2021-2021: That is not much less than global temperature increase according to linear trend of HadCRUT4 from December 1972 to December 2020 (the latest month for which woodfortrees retrieved data), which is about .84-.85 degree C. I expect this global temperature increase figure to be slightly less if the first three months of 2021 get included. https://woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1972.93/to:2021/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1972.93/to:2021/trend

Patrick B
April 28, 2021 2:07 pm

“a slight increase of only 0.7°C – which is not statistically significant.”

If the change is not statistically significant, then isn’t it correct to say “there was no statistically significant increase” rather than “a slight increase of only 0.7”? Isn’t the whole point is that you can’t say if there was an increase or a decrease because the uncertainty associated with your measurement straddles “0”?

Andrew Dykes
April 28, 2021 2:36 pm

Fifty years is a nice round number of years to take, but visually at least the temperature appears cyclical from the graph. The trend line seems to cover an incomplete number of cycles and as it starts at the beginning of a cold cycle and ends in a warm one it isn’t surprising that it shows warming. It doesn’t show that the longer term trend is the same at all, does it?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Andrew Dykes
April 28, 2021 4:59 pm

“It doesn’t show that the longer term trend is the same at all, does it?”

No, it sure doesn’t. All that gives is a little snapshot in time. It does not give the full picture of the etire climate cycle, which warms for a few decades and then cools for a few decades and show nothing unprecedented is happening with the Earth’s climate and weather.

The global temperature has cooled by 0.7C since 2016, so where is all this warming alarmists keep referring to? They imply warming is ongoing, but it’s not.

Bellman
April 28, 2021 6:14 pm

A rise of 0.7°C over 50 years is warming at the rate of 0.14°C / decade. Compare this with global temperatures over the same period, warming at a rate of 0.19°C / decade. If the warming in the Winter Alps is not statistically significant it must also not be statistically different than the global average rise.

In fact there’s as much chance that the true rate of warming is 0.28°C / decade as there is that it’s 0°C.

fred250
Reply to  Bellman
April 28, 2021 8:08 pm

There isn’t 50 years of reliable unadjusted real data.

So you point is left with the rest of the luggage.. in the wrong room.

You do know the late 1970s was the period of the “Global Cooling” scare, don’t you.

You do know that temperatures were warmer during the MWP, and there were less Swiss glaciers.. don’t you.

Manifest your ignorance bellhop !!

Bellman
Reply to  fred250
April 29, 2021 3:59 am

There isn’t 50 years of reliable unadjusted real data.

Yet this post is presenting data which fails to show a significant difference with the global data. Almost as if looking at a small part of the world, for a single season, isn’t a useful way of determining global trends.

Last time you said there was a pristine surface data set that matches UAH.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/20/hansens-1988-global-warming-prediction-was-thrice-observation/#comment-3230396

I’m still interested in what you think this is.

You do know the late 1970s was the period of the “Global Cooling” scare, don’t you.

It was also the period when scientists were warning about the likelihood of warming caused by rising CO2. I’m not sure what relevance any of this has to the point I was making. This article chose to start the trend of Alpine Winter temperatures in the 1970s.

Mr. Lee
April 28, 2021 8:39 pm

Blind men groping an elephant. All that matters is the tidal gauges and they show nothing. That is that.

Matthew Sykes
April 29, 2021 1:14 am

0.7 C warming since the 70s, and flat since 1999 is pretty much the global picture though.

I would like to see how their summer temps have changed.

But yeah, it means a ski station loses the bottom 100 meters off its runs.

john harmsworth
April 29, 2021 9:16 am

I believe I have read that the continental U.S. also has no meaningful warming since more or less mid-20thcentury. So I wonder and I ask, if we made an effort to perform a regional analysis across the entire globe, where is the warming? I’m pretty sure the Arctic would stand out( if that data is accurate across time). How do other isolated areas measure up. I see no “climate crisis” anywhere. I live in Western Canada. It is certainly a little warmer than when I was a kid in the 60’s. But we grow a lot of food here and we have had excellent growing conditions for the last 20 years at least. No killer frosts in late spring or early fall that wrecked crops often when I was young.

griff
April 29, 2021 9:32 am

This shows the world’s glaciers are melting – and melting now more rapidly.

this therefore is NOT any ‘rebound’ from the little ice age, not just progression from the end of the ice age, but demonstrably an effect of warming which is getting more severe.

Speed at which world’s glaciers are melting has doubled in 20 years | Glaciers | The Guardian

2hotel9
Reply to  griff
April 30, 2021 7:04 am

And right on cue our resident screeching lie spewer arrives to screechingly spew lies yet again, and linking guardian is just gravy on top.

john harmsworth
Reply to  griff
April 30, 2021 10:49 am

I posted elsewhere on this. As a kid in the 60’s my family took a trip through the Rockies and went by the Columbia Icefield in Alberta. The Parks Service had tourist info set up at the foot of a massive glacier with photos showing the retreat of the glacier at intervals since the 1850’s. We had a “Little Ice Age”, inconvenient though that fact may be for the worshippers of the CO2 sky God. This paper is typical climate “science” B.S. cherry-picking. Ignore everything that doesn’t support the Lefty,, Eco-Nazi narrative. The Guardian has the same relationship with the truth that Pravda had. No wonder, Commie rag.

Last edited 5 months ago by john harmsworth
john harmsworth
Reply to  griff
April 30, 2021 11:06 am

When is the Guardian moving its offices to Antarctica? It’s obviously way too hot in Manchester or wherever by now. I here ALL the glaciers are gone there. How can people survive?

Steve Z
April 29, 2021 1:29 pm

Winter temperature is not the only factor affecting ski resorts–it also has a lot to do with humidity, the path of the jet stream, and location of anticyclones.

During the winter, the Alps are along the contrast between cool, wet weather blowing off the Atlantic and relatively mild weather over the Mediterranean, with the Azores anticyclone (high pressure area) usually parked off the west coast of Africa, keeping the Sahara dry.

During some winters, the jet stream flows over northern Europe, from England to southern Scandinavia, bringing a long parade of storms with very wet weather over France and Germany, with the winds mostly out of the west to southwest. In such a winter, the weather is wet but relatively mild over northern Europe, with abundant snowfall in the Alps, but not exceptionally cold.

From time to time, the Azores anticyclone expands north and east to cover most of western Europe, bringing dry weather and light winds, with mild and dry weather in the Alps.

There’s also the possibility of a cold anticyclone moving in from Greenland, Scandinavia, or sometimes even from Russia, which brings cold, dry weather to northern Europe and the northern Alps, and turbulent weather over the Mediterranean and southern Alps. This occurred during the Olympics in Lillehammer, Norway, which led some athletes to collapse in the extreme cold, despite abundant sunshine.

The first pattern above leads to abundant snowfall in the Alps, but rather average temperatures. Both the second and third patterns above lead to below-average snowfall, the second with above-average temperatures, the third with below-average temperatures.

Clyde Spencer
April 29, 2021 9:25 pm

I’m troubled that the green line doesn’t seem to be a good match to the data.

Rah
April 30, 2021 6:33 am

I skied in the Alps the winters of 86-87, 87-88, and 88-89.

The winter of 86-87 was the weakest. That year I went through ski instructor training. Started out in October on a Glacier in Austria for evaluation. Next to the Zugspitz to attend the German military ski instructor course. Then doing instructing on the Braunic. And finally in March attending the Italian Incasouris (their SF) ski training and winter warfare exercise at Vipitaino in Sud Tirol. That year started slow but got better quickly. I didn’t go more than two days without skiing tha whole period.

The next winter 87-88 was outstanding. Powder up to my waist on the Braunic.

88-89 was very good for snow. That year my team got caught above the tree line on the Zugspitz in the worst winter storm to hit Bavaria in 10 years.

The amount of snow fall in a given winter does not directly coorespond to how cold it gets.

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