State Supported(?) Protests Rock Elon Musk’s Chinese Tesla Venture

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Have the Chinese Communists fallen out of love with Tesla? Or have they stolen enough Tesla technology to launch their own ripoff, and don’t need Musk any more?

Tesla branded as ‘arrogant’ in China as pressure mounts on the electric car maker

PUBLISHED THU, APR 22 202110:36 PM EDT
UPDATED FRI, APR 23 20217:16 AM EDT
Arjun Kharpal @ARJUNKHARPAL, Evelyn Cheng @CHENGEVELYN

  • A woman who claimed to be a Tesla customer protested an alleged brake failure in her car at the company’s booth at the Shanghai auto show.
  • Tesla claimed the woman had a collision due to a speeding incident and has been negotiating with her since February.
  • Chinese state media branded the company’s response as “arrogant” and regulators are increasing their scrutiny of the company.

GUANGZHOU, China — Tesla faces mounting pressure in China as state media and regulators criticize the electric car maker following a woman’s protest at a major auto show this week.

Tesla could be facing one of its worst public relations crises in China, a market investors see as critical for its growth.

On Monday, a woman who claimed to be a Tesla customer stood atop one of the company’s cars at the Shanghai auto show with a T-shirt that read “brakes don’t work.” She was protesting an alleged brake failure in her car — an issue other Chinese social media users claiming to be Tesla drivers have complained about in the last several months. A video of the incident went viral on Chinese social networks and was picked up by state media.

On Tuesday, Shanghai police identified the protester by her surname Zhang and said she was sentenced to five days detention for disturbing public order.

Tesla alleged the woman was involved in a collision in February due to “speeding violations” and that in their two months of negotiations, she would not allow a third-party inspection but insisted on a refund for the car.

Criticism for being ‘arrogant’

Tesla’s vice president for China, Tao Lin, claimed in an interview Monday with Chinese financial news publication Caijing that the woman hoped for a high level of compensation, and the company doesn’t have any reason to give it to her.

Negative press about Tesla in China has increased in recent months. Earlier this year, a Tesla Model 3 reportedly exploded in a Shanghai parking garage, while a state media article said there were at least 10 reports in 2020 of Tesla drivers in the country losing control of their cars. 

China has also reportedly restricted the use of Tesla cars among state and military personnel over concerns that the vehicle’s sensors could record images of their surrounding locations. Musk said his company would be shut down if its cars could be used to spy.

Read more: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/23/tesla-in-china-pressure-mounts-on-carmaker-after-customer-protest.html

This is all so different from 2020, when Elon Musk explained in great detail why he thought China is better than the USA.

Elon Musk says ‘China rocks’ while the U.S. is full of ‘complacency and entitlement’

PUBLISHED FRI, JUL 31 20205:31 PM EDT
UPDATED FRI, JUL 31 20207:50 PM EDT
Lora Kolodny @LORAKOLODNY

  • Elon Musk lamented the “entitled” and “complacent” character of people in the United States, and lauded the “smart” and “hard working people” of China, in an Automotive News podcast out Friday.
  • He also said that Tesla had received the least government assistance of any U.S. carmaker. 

Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk lamented the “entitled” and “complacent” character of people in the United States, and lauded the “smart” and “hard working people” of China, in the first installment of a three-part interview with Automotive News’ “Daily Drive” podcast published Friday. 

Specifically, Musk criticized New York and California — states that have supported his businesses, especially Tesla, with considerable tax breaks, regulatory credits and other government help.

Automotive News publisher Jason Stein, who conducted the interview, asked Musk, “How about China as an EV strategy leader in the world?”

Musk replied: “China rocks in my opinion. The energy in China is great. People there – there’s like a lot of smart, hard working people. And they’re really — they’re not entitled, they’re not complacent, whereas I see in the United States increasingly much more complacency and entitlement especially in places like the Bay Area, and L.A. and New York.

He offered this advice to other entrepreneurs: 

“My advice, you know, to corporate America or companies worldwide is spend less time on marketing presentations and more time on your product. Honestly that should be the number one thing taught in business schools. Put down that spreadsheet and that PowerPoint presentation and go and make your product better.”

Read more: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-rocks-us-full-of-entitlement.html

Hands up who wants to help Musk sort out his problems with the Chinese Communists?

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John Dueker
April 25, 2021 6:15 am

Having worked in China for years this is what happens when they want to take over your market. He will need to make some secret concession ($$$) to the Party and publicly apologize to recover. I’m not sure he can.

What the Party wants they get.

commieBob
Reply to  John Dueker
April 25, 2021 6:58 am

I am having trouble figuring out what happened to Jack Ma. Did the Chinese government decide it wanted to take over Alibaba or did Jack Ma just get too big for his britches?

Reply to  commieBob
April 25, 2021 7:20 am

Being a commie…you should know that the CCP is a criminal organization….no one ….. not Jack Ma….not Elon Musk….come before the party – simple.

Bryan A
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 8:58 am

Hands up who wants to help Musk sort out his problems with the Chinese Communists

i’ll raise a finger to him in binary salute to the #4
oo1oo

Last edited 4 months ago by Bryan A
commieBob
Reply to  Bryan A
April 25, 2021 11:44 am

Wow. Base 32 dude.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  commieBob
April 25, 2021 10:52 am

Jack Ma said some things publicly that did not go over well. Look it up.

commieBob
Reply to  ResourceGuy
April 25, 2021 11:47 am

That’s what I was referring to when I mentioned getting too big for his britches.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  commieBob
April 26, 2021 4:33 am

he vanished for a fair while
reappeared and has been limited in his net and biz govt wants more of it I gather
he got big and popular and they wont allow that!

Climate believer
Reply to  John Dueker
April 25, 2021 7:39 am

Having worked in China for years this is what happens when they want to take over your market”

You’d think western based business would have worked that out by now, it happens every time.

Guess Elon’s not as smart as he thinks he is. Don’t be so greedy Elon, ya gonna get burned.

observa
Reply to  Climate believer
April 25, 2021 8:17 am

You’d have thought he’d have worked the commies out-
Chinese Copycats: 20 Cars That Are Total Rip-Offs | HotCars

Bryan A
Reply to  observa
April 25, 2021 8:53 am

Twould appear that the Chinese Auto Cloners don’t have an original bone in their bodies. They’re already collecting our DNA via DNA Testing Kits (like Ancestry) how long before they start cloning us as well??

Last edited 4 months ago by Bryan A
Abolition Man
Reply to  Bryan A
April 25, 2021 10:49 pm

They’re not interested in cloning us, they want to be able to control us! Look at the ChiCom virus fatality rates of the US and Europe vs the nations of East Asia! With fatality rates about 30X higher in the West it appears the CCP has already put their DNA database to use!

Bryan A
Reply to  Abolition Man
April 26, 2021 8:43 am

If they did, they could train our clones to be perfect little commies, speak perfect English, then send the clones over here to blend in and register Democrat

Abolition Man
Reply to  Bryan A
April 26, 2021 9:49 am

Bryan,
The only problem with training clones to be perfect little communists is that you have to almost completely lobotomize them to accept the drivel that passes as their economic theory! This has been perfected in Western colleges (see AOC,) but has been largely a failure elsewhere!
Fortunately, the lobotomies are not a hindrance to DemoKKKrat Party affiliation; they may even be seen as an asset judging by our current crop of politicians!

Hoser
Reply to  Abolition Man
April 27, 2021 6:22 am

K12 has been very effective. Finished off in college.

Hoser
Reply to  Bryan A
April 27, 2021 6:21 am

More like targeting our DNA with deadly viruses that don’t target the sequences in Han people. By the way, Wu means “military” and “han” are the northern Chinese people. So Wuhan is a military city. Or it was, and still retains military facilities, like biological (weapons) research.

John Dueker
Reply to  observa
April 25, 2021 12:52 pm

We started into China right after Mao reopened the borders in the 70’s. The 1.5 billion consumers is a big draw. And we made good money for a while then got cut down by the party and hung on the contract obligations China wanted to protect them from the foreign devils. They know western companies meet contract requirements, they don’t.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  observa
April 26, 2021 4:35 am

aus price appears to be nearer 6k
but still waaay cheaper

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/china-unveils-alphadog-affordable-robo-dog-boston-dynamics-spot

Chinese tech firm, Welian, has developed the Chinese version of Spot
called AlphaDog, which is already on sale for $2,400. Compared to the
$74,500 price tag of Spot, this robo-dog is more affordable than the US
version.

commieBob
Reply to  Climate believer
April 25, 2021 8:47 am

That’s simplistic.

Why is China doing so well and why is Russia doing so poorly?

Canada is about a quarter the size of Russia and has a greater GNP. That’s how badly the Russians are doing. link

I would say that the level of corruption in China does not rise to Russian levels. This is not to say that it is by any measure uncorrupt. link

The realization has set in that China is a problematic trading partner. That’s true even for the Democrats and is why Biden is quietly keeping Trump’s China policies.

There are certain entities I treat with great respect, among those are China and rattlesnakes.

Reply to  commieBob
April 25, 2021 9:31 am

Russia is ruled by Putin (who might be the richest man in the world) and a handful of oligarchs…Russia is about exporting arms and oil/gas. The China secret is that Europe and the US believed real change was happening when it was just about cheap labor and not really about the Chinese market being opened. Oooops, China dumped a few trillion in cheap goods on the world and now it is reset time. I don’t buy Apple…Amazon…Tesla….GM….any company connected to China in a large way.

Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 11:10 am

Russia can’t use slave labor anymore, and with their decaying demographics have little hope of their labor pools growing.

Reply to  Jean Parisot
April 25, 2021 5:13 pm

Czar Putin is mainly responsible…he was KGB and never will accept capitalism and the west. N. Korean slave labor harvests trees in Siberia.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 26, 2021 4:38 am

funny thing?
people I know living in Russia who are american by birth seem to be damned happy and satisfied with their quality of life there, food medical care housing etc power bills etc

Tom Abbott
Reply to  commieBob
April 25, 2021 10:05 am

“There are certain entities I treat with great respect, among those are China and rattlesnakes.”

For the same reason: They are both dangerous to one’s future, if one is not careful.

Climate believer
Reply to  commieBob
April 25, 2021 10:43 pm

Just to let you know, seems my reply didn’t make it past mod central, guess they didn’t like the “G” word.

Abolition Man
Reply to  commieBob
April 25, 2021 11:14 pm

commieBob,
With the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Western powers hoped to install some type of market economy in Russia.
Unfortunately, the Clinton Crime Family was in the White House at the time; so state businesses were sold to the highest bidders with no regard for past criminal behavior or where the money came from. They essentially sold Russia to the organized crime cartels that Putin tries to ride herd over! It’s a kleptocracy akin to those rampant around Africa; causing the economic engine to sputter and stall often!
The CCP uses a different business model. They use the full power of the state to coerce their population into obedience! The use of slave labor and concentration camps is widespread and always looming over anyone who expresses dissent. Businesses are allowed to flourish and grow to a point, but if the party decides to take your candy away you’d better accept meekly! Those that protest are likely to disappear, forever!
Elon Musk failed to differentiate between the Chinese people, who are hard working and creative; and Chinese Communist Party, who are the biggest, deadliest and most corrupt criminal gang in world history! Oops!

John Miller
April 25, 2021 6:19 am

Musk’s 2020 comments about “China rocking” are no doubt spot-on. Are Tesla brakes a real problem or made up? Having worked in China, I’d say significant likelihood the latter and the Chinese could well be creating/ taking advantage of this issue to press Tesla to give them the intellectual property they can’t steal. Working in China is a two-edged sword. You need to be tough and fast with superior Neigong because in China the government has the overwhelming Li.

Reply to  John Miller
April 25, 2021 7:25 am

You cannot “work” in China…again, the CCP is a criminal organization….if you “work” in China, your life and property are at risk. The free world should boycott China….North Korea….Iran….Cuba….Venezuela…all these criminal commie type countries.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 7:34 am

“The free world should boycott China”
Trump wanted American companies to “come home”. I didn’t like all of his policies but I liked that one. He of course got little support on this one from the Dems.

Jeff Meyer
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 25, 2021 8:00 am

Or Rino’s…. He was upsetting the money train….

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 25, 2021 8:17 am

Which policies didn’t you like? Pursuing energy independence, correcting tax law to make America competive in world markets, securing our border, not letting international players get away with fleecing Americans, halting waste fraud and abuse on green nonsense, filling judgeships with judges who interpret the Constitution, rather than trying to rewrite it, fast tracking vaccines and therapies for the China virus, directing Mideast peace efforts, strengthening our military and/or the rest of the good his administration did?

No sane person will agree with every policy coming from a political administration, the question is whether or not most policies make sense.
The Biden administration is pursuing only senseless policies whose goals are to undo all of the good Trump did for petty political reasons.

BTW, most of the people who didn’t approve of Trump’s policies didn’t understand what they were opposing and only knew of his policies based on the lies told by a politically biased media that was out to get him from day 1.

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 25, 2021 9:03 am

“Which policies didn’t you like?”
..
His inability to accept that he lost the election. To this day he claims “fraud” when even his own Attorney General admitted there was none.

Climate believer
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 9:48 am

As has been stated many times, your ability to miss the target is becoming legendary Roger.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 10:22 am

Well, there is no doubt that fraud was rampant in the election processes of the Battleground States.

We can’t say for certain which way that fraud affected the election results, since we can’t connect the number of illegal votes to who those votes were cast for, but we can certainly say there were numerous illegal votes cast in all the Battleground States.

My assumption is that most of the fraudulent votes went to Biden, since I think the Democrats are much more corrupt than Republicans, but you are free not to agree with that sentiment, and there’s no way to prove it either way, anyway..

As for that “Attorney General” comment: You are taking it out of context. That was a personal opinion of the Attorney General, early in the process, where he said he had seen no evidence, and that was true because no investigation had been undertaken at that time. Or ever, as far as I know. Not by the Justice Department.

So the Attorney General was not saying there was not evidence, he was saying he had not seen any evidence at the time of that question.

The Arizona vote audit is proceeding so we’ll get a formal presentation of the evidence of fraud in the Arizona vote in the near future.

And then those pesky Republicans say they are going to do the same thing in the other Battleground States.

The Democrats are doing all they can do to try to block bringing the voting information to the public. The Democrats don’t want transparency of the vote count. That can only mean one thing: They have something to hide.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 10:25 am

Anyone who accepts that Trump “lost” the election is a credulous fool. It’s true that O’Biden was inaugurated. He just didn’t get as many votes as Trump. There is massive evidence of fraud.

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Rory Forbes
April 25, 2021 11:51 am

Lindell (mypillow guy) won a Golden Raspberry for his documentary about voting fraud: https://www.newsweek.com/mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell-wins-razzie-award-2020-election-documentary-1586186

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 2:47 pm

LOL Newsweek … who cares?

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Rory Forbes
April 25, 2021 7:03 pm

LOL Lindell… who cares?

Ruleo
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 2:53 pm

What a pathetic comment. “Ohh Razzy award”. I bet the Oscars are great for obedience-driven fools as yourself.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 26, 2021 4:23 am

A quote from your link: “There is no evidence to support the movie’s central claim”.

That’s true. The “Absolute Proof” video Lidell made does not provide any proof of anything. It does characterize the different fraudulent votes that took place in the Battleground States, but Lindell has no evidence of how those fraudulent votes were cast. He doesn’t know if they were cast for Biden or Trump,at least not in the Absolute Proof video.

Now, Lindell claims he does have the evidence to show the election was stolen, in the form of computer forensic analysis of the internet before, during and after the election, which he claims shows the details of how the votes were stolen.

Lindell said he was going to start laying out the detailed evidence last week beginning with one video, but as far as I can tell, this new video has not seen the light of day.

So, Lindell has produced no evidence that the election was stolen from Trump yet.

Last edited 4 months ago by Tom Abbott
Simon
Reply to  Rory Forbes
April 25, 2021 1:12 pm

He just didn’t get as many votes as Trump. “
And Trump didn’t get as many as Clinton first time. Move on…

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Simon
April 25, 2021 2:58 pm

And Trump didn’t get as many as Clinton first time. Move on…

The difference is; Democrats are claiming O’Biden got more votes than Clinton or Obama. Trump got over 10 million more votes than 2016.

“Move on”, you say … you mean like Billary Clinton? She’s still going on about losing the election after 5 years and no one seems to mind. Hell, Al Gore is still complaining after 20 years.

No one should be moving on after that mess. The fraud needs to be exposed. It was worse than a banana republic.

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Rory Forbes
April 25, 2021 4:06 pm

Trump lost the popular vote against Clinton. Trump lost the popular vote against Biden. Trump also lost the Electoral College vote against Biden.

Last edited 4 months ago by Roger Taguchi
Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 6:01 pm

No, actually he didn’t but the Democrats are so afraid of him, that no will actually test it in court. knowing they lost.

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Rory Forbes
April 25, 2021 6:17 pm

 “no will actually test it in court”…….do you know how many court cases challenging the results were lost?
.
.
.
Hint: ALL OF THEM

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 8:16 pm

do you know how many court cases challenging the results were lost?

As a matter of fact I do know … none, since none were heard. In all cases the judges found some way to refuse a hearing.

TonyG
Reply to  Rory Forbes
April 26, 2021 7:38 am

Amazing how “not tried” = “lost” to some people. It’s a pretty significant different.

Mason Crawford
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 10:56 pm

Stop being duplicitous! When cases were filed before the election due to Governors and in at least one state a judge, illegally changing voting rules/requirements, the courts refused to hear the cases because they couldn’t be filed until after the election when “harm” could be proven. Of course after the election, once cases were filed again, the courts refused to hear the cases because they should have been filed before the election.

Lrp
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 12:32 pm

That is not a policy, it’s his ego, which is part of his personality, for better or worse, but in my opinion for better, because he provided best directions for economy and foreign policy.

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Lrp
April 25, 2021 4:10 pm

Trump’s ego got several people killed on Jan 6th.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 6:05 pm

Trump had absolutely nothing to do with what took place on January 6th. He was miles away and nothing he said then or before could possibly be construed as incitement. The entire thing was staged by Pelosi and her gang. Only a complete idiot would believe otherwise.

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Rory Forbes
April 25, 2021 6:19 pm

Quote from his speech: “And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you, we’re going to walk down, we’re going to walk down.”

Except he didn’t, he ran and hid in the White House

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 8:21 pm

So … in your tiny mind “And after this, we’re going to walk down” is enough to incite a mob (which was already active and miles away). Trump’s followers were at his rally, miles from the action.

… “ran an hid” … you were there were you? Were you born an idiot or have you been practicing?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 26, 2021 5:09 am

Ridiculous. Is Trump God? All but one of those people died of natural causes except for Ms Babbitt who was shot dead by a Capitol policeman.

TDS.

Ruleo
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 2:52 pm
Last edited 4 months ago by Ruleo
Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Ruleo
April 25, 2021 4:09 pm

Trump lost period. I suggest you learn to live with reality.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 6:06 pm

Trump was removed from office but with over 70 million votes, he didn’t lose the election.

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Rory Forbes
April 25, 2021 6:21 pm

Biden got 81.2 million votes. Trump lost in the Electoral College.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 8:27 pm

O’Biden got nothing close to that number. They may have counted that many ballots (unlikely, though) but that would mean the vote count exceeded the number of (living) voters.

Trump won the electoral college count of legitimate electors. Many were unconstitutionally appointed by state governors, rather than their legislature.

You need to learn some constitutional law and basic logic.

Leonard Weinstein
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 9:22 pm

If you believe that, I have a gridge in NY to sell you.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 11:36 pm

Roger,
Once again you step in it with surprising regularity!
The forensic audit of Maricopa County voting machines and ballots starts tomorrow! With Trump losing Arizona by less than 10,000 votes, any widespread fraud or ballot irregularities could change the result! Other states like Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin and Nevada have groups in place pushing for full audits of the election. If there is no fraud or illegalities, then why are the DemoKKKrats hiring hundreds of lawyers and spending millions of dollars trying to stop these investigations?
Your lack of knowledge is pathetic! You need to pull your head out of that hole you’ve been keeping it in and find out what is really going on!
Still waiting for your public apology for being WRONG about Officer Sicknick’s death! Just another entry on your tab where we list all the hoaxes and propaganda you fall for! It’s getting almost as long as the list of failed climate predictions from your priests!

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 26, 2021 5:55 pm

FYI: All posts by “Roger Taguchi” on this topic were not posted by me, Roger Taguchi. Moderator, please delete all comments, and tell me how to prevent someone else from using my name & email address. Thanks.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 25, 2021 10:02 am

uh… actually I liked most of his policies

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 26, 2021 5:37 am

I’m trying to think of a Trump policy I didn’t like.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 26, 2021 6:11 am

For me, I had a problem with his personality. If he had the same policies and was a bit less obnoxious, I think he would have been elected again.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 26, 2021 7:37 am

The reason most people didn’t like him was because the media constantly demonized him by lying and spewing hate towards him and his supporters, not because they’re bad people, but because they wanted policies that are best for America and not what’s best for those who want to destroy us and/or replace us as the dominant global super power. Bear in mind that your opinion of his personality is exactly what the media was trying to elicit, truth be damned.

What the media calls being obnoxious, I would characterize as truth to power and honest transparency. The media is just way too powerful and is destroying our country. There’s so much to complain about the insane, anti-American and failing policies of the current administration, yet the media ignorantly heaps praise on them and then makes excuses for their predictable failures.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 26, 2021 10:02 am

Making fun of people isn’t appropriate behavior for a president. It’s not truth to power and honest transparency. Insulting anyone who he doesn’t like hurt his administration.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 26, 2021 11:09 am

It may have hurt his administration with RINOs and fence riders but elevated him to the status of folk hero to the “deplorables” of Middle America. His style is what won him votes with the masses. If the election wasn’t fixed, he would have had the largest vote in US history.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 28, 2021 8:08 am

Joseph,

He insulted people in power not because he didn’t like them, but because they were acting against the best interests of Americans. Calling out people in power who aren’t acting in the best interests of those they represent is the very definition of truth to power.

Early on in the Trump administration, he was nicer to the opposition and tried to promote bipartisanship, but it was not reciprocated and if anything, the left doubled down on their obstruction and hateful rhetoric in their attempt to retake the House in 2018 so they could further harm him, which they succeeded at. Given all of the malfeasance targeting him on an hourly basis, his responses were pretty tame by comparison.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  co2isnotevil
April 26, 2021 11:07 am

Well said. One of the CNN executives (just last week) proudly admitted to their editorial policy of non-stop smearing Trump andd manufacturing fake news about his personality and actions. Stories that were completely debunked wee reawakened again and again until people believed the lies.

The electronic media admitted the same thing just after the election, adding that their calculations showed they shifted the election by at least 6% in Biden’s favour.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 26, 2021 11:02 am

I think he would have been elected again.

He WAS elected again. There was simply too many people worried that they’d lose their place at the trough. The entire world was scared of Trump’s appeal to the middle class and the “mob” … the group who have been regularly screwed by politicians since they won the last war for the Western powers.

The “election” was as close an approximation of Caesar’s assassination as one can get.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 27, 2021 3:50 am

Ten million more people voted for Trump the second time around. I would say his personality was not the problem for his supporters.

You know, Trump would be a lot nicer if he wasn’t constantly attacked. Trump just treats his detractors the way they treat him. Seems fair to me.

I like the fact that Trump doesn’t take any BS from the Left. I used to hate it when G.W. Bush was attacked by the Left and Bush just remained silent and let the Leftwing lies stand as truth, like the “Mission Accomplished” Lie. I like Trump’s style much better, in that regard. The Left lies about Trump and Trump calls them liars; he doesn’t stay silent. May it ever be so!

Last edited 4 months ago by Tom Abbott
Jeff Labute
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 9:37 am

I’ve had personal and professional dealings in China and experienced the culture of theft first hand. I can say it goes beyond that of just the CCP. Everything from large electronics manufacturers to so called ‘family’ who will gladly open parcels looking for valuables before forwarding them on. Maybe I am just lucky? It will take a lot of time to move hi-tech industry out of China.

Scissor
Reply to  Jeff Labute
April 25, 2021 11:26 am

The company I worked for was stiffed for millions. All of the employees filed suit and our attorneys negotiated a settlement agreement, which in only a matter of weeks, they broke. Shortly thereafter, they filed for bankruptcy which is pending.

The lesson is to realize that their negotiation in bad faith is to be expected. In retrospect, we should have required more in escrow early on, when leverage is greatest.

2hotel9
April 25, 2021 6:26 am

Since China steals from everyone of course they are now ready to build their own piece of crap electric toy car. Since they already have the electric golfcart market controlled I don’t see why they bothered.

Scissor
Reply to  2hotel9
April 25, 2021 7:26 am

The Tesra roadster may already be available in the back alleys of Shanghai. Comes with two free Rolexes and a box of DVDs, all for 10K (negotiable).

Editor
April 25, 2021 6:29 am

There was a brand new Tesla parked outside our house today, here in Southern England. Its a very unremarkable car. What persuades people to pay such large amounts of money for it?

Derg
Reply to  tonyb
April 25, 2021 6:34 am

I think it’s because Tesla’s have doors?

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  tonyb
April 25, 2021 6:36 am

virtue signaling?

fretslider
Reply to  tonyb
April 25, 2021 7:06 am

A guy down the road has a black Model S

It pays no road tax ‘cos it’s green, right. Yet these cars weighing in at 2,250 kg are far heavier than their average petrol/diesel equivalent. Ergo they really are getting a free ride.

The bonus is when they break down you can’t coast along, indicate and pull over safely. They stop dead. They also burn with a bright blue flame that you cannot put out.

Besides, it has that name…

Last edited 4 months ago by fretslider
Oldseadog
Reply to  fretslider
April 25, 2021 7:35 am

C.mon, make your mind up. Is it green or black?

fretslider
Reply to  Oldseadog
April 25, 2021 7:48 am

I’ve heard about how confused oldseadogs can be!

It’s Henry Ford Black And Thunberg Green

Last edited 4 months ago by fretslider
Oldseadog
Reply to  fretslider
April 25, 2021 7:51 am

Of course. Silly me.

Reply to  fretslider
April 25, 2021 7:40 am

Highway pavement and bridge design is for truck weights but the rest is for all vehicles so yeah, EVs are getting a free ride for now. The real cost of EVs would be the new power generation required and where will all the lithium come from?

fretslider
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 7:50 am

where will all the lithium come from?

As long as there’s any to be had, child labour in DRC. The modern sort of slavery that is AOK ‘cos it’s all in a good cause.

Last edited 4 months ago by fretslider
Roger Taguchi
Reply to  fretslider
April 25, 2021 12:00 pm

There is no lithium in the DRC. Besides, lithium isn’t “mined” it’s pumped from a drilled well, and comes up as a brine solution that gets evaporated. No child labor involved.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 5:00 pm

Well, actually you are both wrong, and should do at least minimal research before commenting here.
DRC is cobalt, associated with its copper belt. Lithium brine is true for Chile. But the lithium mined in Australia and Canada is from the hard rock mineral spodumene found in igneous pegmatites. The two spodumene gems are Kunzite (pale pink) and Hiddenite (pale green).

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 25, 2021 7:06 pm

No child labor in Australia, and they pump it in Argentina without child labor. Does China use child labor for it’s lithium brine operations?

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 7:13 pm

Argentina and Chile’s lithium brine resources are five times greater than Australia’s total lithium resource.

But you ignore the most important point…..no child labor in any lithium recovery operations.

Last edited 4 months ago by Roger Taguchi
Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 7:21 pm

And also Mr. Istvan, you know full well that there is alternative Li-ion battery chemistry that dispense with cobalt and use other materials. So, rest assured, you will not have to worry yourself about child labor.

Roger Taguchi
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 26, 2021 6:32 pm

Please be advised that ALL posts in this thread by “Roger Taguchi” were by an imposter, not me. Moderator: I have in the past posted my email address for use by anyone who wished to contact me personally. This email address may have been used to post Comments with which I may not agree (I have not read them, which seem to have garnered numerous negative ratings).
Please check the email address of the actual imposter, if you can, and ban them from this site. Otherwise check any further comments by “Roger Taguchi” with an email to me directly for confirmation of posting. Thanks. We don’t need to waste time reading fake (nuisance) postings.

Mr.
Reply to  fretslider
April 25, 2021 9:00 am

Are you sure it wasn’t a black Leaf?

Or don’t black Leafs matter?

Coeur de Lion
Reply to  fretslider
April 25, 2021 9:46 am

Re road tax my Citroen Picasso with Adblu costs me a negligible £20 a year. ‘Cos it’s CLEAN! I go just under 500 miles for £55. That’s 3 charges of 40kwh at IONITI rate of £0.60 per KWh. Work it out for yourself.

Coeur de Lion
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
April 25, 2021 9:47 am

It’s diesel of course

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
April 26, 2021 4:49 am

till i saw diesel under I was confused;-)

Last edited 4 months ago by ozspeaksup
Tom Abbott
Reply to  fretslider
April 25, 2021 10:26 am

Tesla’s won’t coast? That’s inconvenient. You’re stuck in the middle of the road with a dead battery.

Jake J
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 26, 2021 5:40 pm

You can’t pop a Tesla into neutral? I have a cheapo EV (Think City, look it up), and I coast all the time, in neutral.

Reply to  tonyb
April 25, 2021 7:34 am

Why do many people buy Apple computers when the same computing power is available at much cheaper prices? It’s sort of cultish, no?

fretslider
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 7:55 am

Why do many people buy Apple 

It’s the name.

Back in the early 70s (post CBS) Fender guitars got really shoddy and awful. Many copies were far superior in quality and playability.

But it’s the name. Fortunately Fender finally got their act together, but for many that came too late.

Most money goes on the label.

Last edited 4 months ago by fretslider
Reply to  fretslider
April 25, 2021 8:49 am

Apple has about a 30% profit margin….most computer co.s are like 10 to 15%….a computer repair guy in NYC says the quality inside Apple products is no better than anyone else and he says Apple is deliberately making it harder to repair – Apple prefers you replace.

John Dueker
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 1:04 pm

My wife has an Apple iPhone 7, old one, one day the battery would no longer hold a charge. Then we heard of a lawsuit about forced obsolescence by Apple then magically it started holding a charge.

I am not a fan of litigation but in the case of a blatantly corrupt corporation I’m ok with it.

Scissor
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 8:20 am
Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 8:33 am

Not only is the same computing power available at a much lower price than Apple machines, it is faster and up-gradable as well. I’ve been using PCs since the ’80s and dumped M$ as soon as I could to run Linux OSs. Apple-fans are in love with the idea of it and totally devoted to the memory of Steve Jobs and his pokey hardware and OS. They are much like CAGW adherents in this regard, don’t want to be confused by facts. IMO, very cultish behavior.

Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 12:22 pm

Always has been.

Back in the early 1980s, That is, back in the days of floppy disk IBM PCs. 10mb upgrades required an accessory box that was priced equal to the PC.

Interviewing potential computer installation/maintenance employees; one interviewee lectured me that all businesses and government agencies should buy and install overpriced Apples. Apple, then as today, voided warranties if their boxes were opened by anybody that was not an approved repair facility.

As suspected, the interviewee had never worked with any personal computer but his own Apple.

Shades of Bloom County and the obsolescent Banana Jr. 6000 when the Banana Jr. 9000 arrives on the scene.

Foxtrot makes light of Apple PC introductions with their iFruit.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 5:05 pm

Nope. Was an ambidextrous Windows (work) Apple (home) user for two decades. At work, we always had tech support that Windows frequently needed. At home, I was my own tech support together with an Apple phone number. No comparison. The simplicity and reliability (including patches and upgrades) of Apple made the premium well worth it in total value.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 25, 2021 5:43 pm

You are talking about the Apple OS and software – I am talking about hardware. I don’t use a computer for business so Linux Mint works great for me and the Apple OS is akin to Linux. In business I guess it is pretty much Microsoft and Apple.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Anti-griff
April 26, 2021 4:54 am

but the NYstock exchange uses Linux, Ive read
so Id guess their biz use is good?

bruce ryan
Reply to  tonyb
April 25, 2021 7:40 am

you should give one a drive for a week or so. It is a wonderfully perfect car. I wouldn’t have one without a garage with electricity though.
I have no use for the CGW mindless fools, I just find the car the best overall driving experience I’ve ever had.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  bruce ryan
April 25, 2021 7:57 am

Consumer Reports has a different take on Tesla vehicles than you do.

markl
Reply to  bruce ryan
April 25, 2021 8:01 am

Exactly. EVs shot themselves in the foot by pushing the environmental impact of owning one over the driving experience for both the operator and passengers.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  bruce ryan
April 25, 2021 8:12 am

I rode in one, was nice
But sometimes I can drive 6-10hours in a day
Don’t feel like extending that by hours with charging stops

Last edited 4 months ago by Pat from kerbob
Reply to  bruce ryan
April 25, 2021 8:32 am

Try a Ferrari…you will love it.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 10:01 am

I’d say Teslas are more attainable than Ferraris.

Scissor
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
April 25, 2021 11:39 am

A nice low miles, ten year old Ferrari can be had for around $100K.

Jake J
Reply to  bruce ryan
April 26, 2021 5:42 pm

Teslas are overloaded with way too much peripheral techno-geek stuff, and there are build quality issues. That said, if you drive a good one (and most of them are fine), the driving experience is great. I wouldn’t buy one, but it was great fun to drive.

Jake J
Reply to  tonyb
April 26, 2021 5:38 pm

EVs don’t pay gas taxes, but various states are slapping hefty surcharges that more than replace the lost gas taxes. I live in one such state, and it’s not the only one.

Alex
April 25, 2021 6:57 am

The “Tesla” relies much more on china technology rather than vice versa

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Alex
April 25, 2021 10:33 am

Does China have any technology of their own? I mean in the modern world.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Roger Taguchi
April 25, 2021 3:01 pm

So, NO is your answer. Listing stolen technology simply makes my point.

Tony Sullivan
April 25, 2021 7:22 am

Sleep with enough Chinese dogs and you’ll eventually get fleas.

alf
Reply to  Tony Sullivan
April 25, 2021 7:35 am

Sleep with enough Chinese dogs and you’ll eventually get fleeced.

John Endicott
Reply to  alf
April 26, 2021 11:48 am

sleep with enough chinese dogs and you’ll end up on the menu next to them.

Ron Long
April 25, 2021 7:37 am

There you go again, Eric, just blurting out the truth. The next time you open a Chinese Fortune Cookie you might want to be careful. Just saying.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 25, 2021 8:09 am

I too will never return to China, until the CCP is part of history

saveenergy
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 25, 2021 8:19 am

“a red army guard in full uniform glaring at me without saying anything for a full minute”

Eric, doesn’t a man in uniform turn you on ?
he was probably plucking up courage to ask you out on a date … but chickened out !!

Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 25, 2021 8:38 am

ADV China on Youtube….2 guys who went to China years ago…married Chinese women….had to leave becuz the police were beginning to notice them.

Spetzer86
Reply to  Anti_griff
April 25, 2021 8:59 am

China Uncensored is another good YT channel and had an episode on Tesla’s problems recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RiZf6t4nG4&ab_channel=ChinaUncensoredChinaUncensoredVerified

Scissor
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 25, 2021 11:43 am

Not even for some bottles of Maotai?

John Dueker
Reply to  Scissor
April 25, 2021 1:08 pm

Use kerosene laced with ketones its the same stuff.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Eric Worrall
April 26, 2021 5:46 am

“I’m not going anywhere near mainland China for the foreseeable future.”

That’s a very good idea because the Chicoms passed a law not long ago where if a person says something critical of the Chicom government, from anywhere in the world, that person can be arrested and charged with a crime if that person happens to travel to China where the Chicoms can get their hands on them.

If you have ever gone on the record as critical of the Chicoms, then you should not go to China until the Chicoms are no longer in power. If you go under those circumstaces, you may not come back.

Bruce Cobb
April 25, 2021 7:40 am

Schadenfreude with my late-morning coffee. Life is good!

Gordon A. Dressler
April 25, 2021 7:53 am

Interesting.

Elon Musk tells the world “My advice, you know, to corporate America or companies worldwide is spend less time on marketing presentations . . .”

If Musk had strictly followed his own advice and not had a Tesla booth at the Shanghai auto show, the protester would not have that public forum to criticize Tesla.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
April 25, 2021 9:42 am

That’s not much marketing. I have never seen a Tesla ad in the US.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
April 25, 2021 5:25 pm

Visit the World Wide Web much? Tesla receives lots of free advertising, especially courtesy the SEC.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
April 26, 2021 5:16 am

There are quite a few channels on YouTube that extol the virtues of Tesla, with all the latest Tesla news and slick video. If they aren’t made for/by Tesla they at least get assistance with info and video.

markl
April 25, 2021 8:04 am

The stereotype of China blatantly stealing technology and manufacturing expertise is true and they have no qualms about it.

Derek Wood
April 25, 2021 8:26 am

Silly Elon!

DHR
April 25, 2021 8:54 am

Has China stolen Tesla technology? You actually have to ask that question. China steals anything they can get their hands or eyes on! Done it for years and done it well.

David Hartley
Reply to  DHR
April 27, 2021 4:16 pm

America would not have had a lead in Space had it not been for operation Paper Clip and Werner von Braun and stolen German tech. Rumour has it they also looted thousands of other patents too as well as utilising the results of human experiments carried out by the German regime.

Last edited 4 months ago by David Hartley
n.n
April 25, 2021 9:00 am

All’s fair in lust and abortion.

Rod Evans
April 25, 2021 9:40 am

Poor old Elon, how could anyone accuse him or his company of being arrogant?
I wonder how his giga factory China as an investment makes him feel now?
Maybe he should explain to his Chinese friends what a great idea Bitcoin is? I’m sure the Chinese Communist Party would be thrilled to have their citizens conducting unrecorded transactions without their knowledge or agreement.

Martin
April 25, 2021 10:01 am

Slightly off thread : from today’s Guardian – the news that solar panels are being produced in China using slave labour in Xinjiang. Is anybody here remotely surprised by this?

Revealed: UK solar projects using panels from firms linked to Xinjiang forced labour | Solar power | The Guardian

James Donald Bailey
Reply to  Martin
April 25, 2021 10:33 am

The only thing that would surprise me about Chinese products would be if they actually worked. Not hurting people would be nice too.

Oldseadog
Reply to  James Donald Bailey
April 25, 2021 12:31 pm

Now now James, a recent virus came out of China and seems to have worked really well for well over a year.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Oldseadog
April 26, 2021 5:58 am

Yes, and the Wuhan virus, according to recent reports may be around for decades in the form of adverse health effects after the infection is gone.

Doctors are expecting a large increase in the number of patients needing treatment after having recovered from the initial disease.

I saw a report yesterday where even those who have had mild infections should monitor themselves for at least six months after their infection, as it seems a lot of deaths are occurring within six months of the infection, from secondary effects, even in mildly infected people.

The Wuhan is a very nasty disease and it’s not done with us yet.

The good news is medical science is making big advances in understanding what the Wuhan virus is doing in the body and how to combat it.

The Chicoms deliberately allowed the Wuhan virus to go out into the world. They shut down traffic inside China when the virus started getting out of hand, but they continued to allow international travel in and out of China and even promoted it and criticized those who wanted the travel restricted. A deliberate biological attack on the rest of the world. They figured if they were going to suffer from the virus, then everyone else was going to suffer, too.

Simon
Reply to  Martin
April 25, 2021 5:53 pm

Im surprised. I thought no one here read the guardian.

Bill Toland
Reply to  Simon
April 26, 2021 5:37 am

Simon, I sometimes read the Guardian for amusement. The articles on the climate are so divorced from reality that I have difficulty imagining anybody falling for them. I have used Guardian articles just to annoy climate alarmists.

dk_
April 25, 2021 10:38 am

“Hands up” is a more appropriate gesture here at home, where masked, armed goons are threatening while politicians are reaching for your wallet. Elon’s on his own — really smart people aren’t in business in China.

ResourceGuy
April 25, 2021 10:50 am

It’s the Putin tactic playing out. Sucker the investment and technology in and then discredit it and drive it out to take over operations. Putin showed how to do that with foreign oil companies.

ResourceGuy
April 25, 2021 10:54 am

So they found where COVID19 came from—imported brake parts brought in by Tesla. It was not the imported frozen seafood after all. /sarc

James Donald Bailey
April 25, 2021 11:07 am

FYI, the Chinese have been selling electric vehicles as long as Musk has.

So the stolen technology can be used for many more vehicles than the inevitable Tesla knock-off.

Besides, speaking of autos, there is a chance that the Chinese bought a lemon, and have just figured that out.

And frankly, trusting slave labor to make things that have to work right?

Search this WWII story for USS Laffey. D-Day +12: Assault on Cherbourg – Warfare History Network. Those men were truly grateful for slave labor making German shells.

Would you want slave labor making your brakes?

Hokey Schtick
April 25, 2021 12:57 pm

It’s alright they have face. Long as you don’t lose face. Face.

Paul Johnson
April 25, 2021 1:13 pm

I doubt the CCP has much interest in electric car technology or electric cars in general. They may be trying to threaten Tesla to get the technology they really want, SpaceX.

Jake J
Reply to  Paul Johnson
April 26, 2021 5:34 pm

I don’t think it’s about SpaceX’s technology, but about China’s fear of an uncensored internet.

April 25, 2021 3:26 pm

Don’t imagine Chinese technology is copied. We made that wrong assumption about the Japanese a generation ago. Hint – we (Europeans) are not the master race.

Streetcred
April 25, 2021 3:43 pm

… there were at least 10 reports in 2020 of Tesla drivers in the country losing control of their cars. 

That’s nothing, have you seen them driving around your neighbourhood ? … just looking for an accident to happen.

Simon
April 25, 2021 5:32 pm

Be interesting to what what Tesla stock does Monday. Some are predicting a large jump with big profits after large increases in sales. This would be the fifth straight quarter of being in the black.

ozspeaksup
April 26, 2021 4:27 am

lol
xi n eeyore
two psychopaths with zero personal skills and massive egos
whats not to find funny!
and yes chinas release a small(tiny) ecar range for around 5k
they dont need eeyore anymore

Peter Gill
April 26, 2021 11:45 am

“…said there were at least 10 reports in 2020 of Tesla drivers in the country losing control of their cars.”
At the risk of sounding stereotypical or perhaps even racist, I work near the largest Chinese community in Canada, there “drivers…losing control of their cars” seems a normal occurrence and certainly isn’t limited to Teslas.

Hoser
April 26, 2021 11:54 am

China can go Hang Seng.

Jake J
April 26, 2021 4:59 pm

I don’t think it’s about Tesla, but is about Musk’s Starlink venture, which is a threat to Chinese censorship of the Internet. Tesla has no unique EV technology; that story is entirely about manufacturing execution. The “spying” accusations are empty insofar as the cars go, and completely hypocritical as far as Starlink goes. China’s gov’t is afraid that Starlink will break their censorship regime, and is negotiating for a back door into Starlink.

TonyG
Reply to  Jake J
April 27, 2021 6:59 am

I’m not clear how Starlink is much of a threat, given that China could ban import of the hardware. I don’t know how much smuggling of contraband there is into China though.

Roger Taguchi
April 26, 2021 8:00 pm

To Moderator and all others: Except for two late Comments by me, ALL others were posted by an imposter using my actual name “Roger Taguchi” [I do not wish to hide behind Anonymity]. In previous postings, I may have been verbose, but generally avoided long strings of tit-for-tat dumb-ass Comments or personal attacks. Has anyone else recently had this problem of imposters trying to spoil your name?

Ian Coleman
April 26, 2021 11:24 pm

Well, “make your product better” is good advice, but it is impossible to make electric cars better than ICE vehicles. You can’t get the price of electric cars anywhere near the price of ICE cars (remember that most cars are bought used, and cost less than $10,000) and you’re never going to a battery that can carry a vehicle as far without refueling as a tank of gas. These things can’t be done.

It’s not that electric cars are not good cars. It’s that they’re not as as cheap and reliable as the gas cars they are presumed to displace.

Antonym
April 27, 2021 12:24 am

NASA awarded SpaceX $2.89 billion for two Moon missions; they were so busy proving anthropological global warming on Earth that they lost sight of their main objective. Governmental bottle feeding has its drawbacks.

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