Dr Katya Polyakova, Fair Use, Low resolution image identifying the subject.

Should Doctors Receive Mandatory Covid Vaccinations?

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

A debate appears to be raging in the British medical community, about whether the severity of some long term adverse reactions to the Covid Vaccine undermines the case for mandatory vaccination of medical staff. The following is a letter published in the British Medical Journal by Dr. Katya Polyakova, medical director of Partnerships in Care, Kent.

Dear Editor

I have had more vaccines in my life than most people and come from a place of significant personal and professional experience in relation to this pandemic, having managed a service during the first 2 waves and all the contingencies that go with that. 

Nevertheless, what I am currently struggling with is the failure to report the reality of the morbidity caused by our current vaccination program within the health service and staff population. The levels of sickness after vaccination is unprecedented and staff are getting very sick and some with neurological symptoms which is having a huge impact on the health service function. Even the young and healthy are off for days, some for weeks, and some requiring medical treatment. Whole teams are being taken out as they went to get vaccinated together.

Mandatory vaccination in this instance is stupid, unethical and irresponsible when it comes to protecting our staff and public health. We are in the voluntary phase of vaccination, and encouraging staff to take an unlicensed product that is impacting on their immediate health, and I have direct experience of staff contracting Covid AFTER vaccination and probably transmitting it. In fact, it is clearly stated that these vaccine products do not offer immunity or stop transmission. In which case why are we doing it? There is no longitudinal safety data (a couple of months of trial data at best) available and these products are only under emergency licensing. What is to say that there are no longitudinal adverse effects that we may face that may put the entire health sector at risk?

Flu is a massive annual killer, it inundates the health system, it kills young people, the old the comorbid, and yet people can chose whether or not they have that vaccine (which had been around for a long time). And you can list a whole number of other examples of vaccines that are not mandatory and yet they protect against diseases of higher consequence. 

Coercion and mandating medical treatments on our staff, of members of the public especially when treatments are still in the experimental phase, are firmly in the realms of a totalitarian Nazi dystopia and fall far outside of our ethical values as the guardians of health. 

I and my entire family have had COVID. This as well as most of my friends, relatives and colleagues. I have recently lost a relatively young family member with comorbidities to heart failure, resulting from the pneumonia caused by Covid. Despite this, I would never debase myself and agree, that we should abandon our liberal principles and the international stance on bodily sovereignty, free informed choice and human rights and support unprecedented coercion of professionals, patients and people to have experimental treatments with limited safety data. This and the policies that go with this are more of a danger to our society than anything else we have faced over the last year. 

What has happened to “my body my choice?” What has happened to scientific and open debate? If I don’t prescribe an antibiotic to a patient who doesn’t need it as they are healthy, am I anti-antibiotics? Or an antibiotic-denier? Is it not time that people truly thought about what is happening to us and where all of this is taking us?

Source: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n810/rr-14

Katya wrote the letter in response to an article published in the BMJ which demanded a united front in support of vaccination.

I have no idea how extensive medical opposition to mass Covid vaccination is. There is obvious pressure to accept the vaccine in the name of social responsibility. But there also appear to be voices speaking out against the vaccine. The obvious concern is adverse reactions might be underreported. On the other hand, perhaps the doctors speaking out have mis-evaluated the risks. Or they could be whistleblowers trying to warn everyone there is a problem.

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Steve Richards
April 6, 2021 2:21 pm

So, an anti-vaxxer speaks!

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Steve Richards
April 6, 2021 2:32 pm

You forgot your “/sarc” tag, or if you didn’t, clearly you didn’t read very carefully.

Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
April 6, 2021 3:18 pm

A reasonable reflective written letter !

M Courtney
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 7, 2021 12:12 am

firmly in the realms of a totalitarian Nazi dystopia “
A reasonable reflective written letter !”

Hmm.

Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 5:50 am

You may or will not see the upcoming danger of a new 2 class society, the vaccinated and the others, the paria, the unsocial, where the missing vaccination paper may be s. th. like the yellow star of earlier times.

Last edited 15 days ago by Krishna Gans
lee riffee
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 7, 2021 8:06 am

There was a movie called Gattica that came out about 15 or 20 years ago and it was about exactly that – a two tiered society. Only thing in the film, the accepted class were properly “bred” and had carefully selected genetics, while the pariah class were naturally born without any genetic selection. The high bred class had each and every opportunity open to them but the “mutt” class did not and were limited to where they could work, live and shop. The film’s protagonist is a “mutt” who desperately yearns to be afforded all the opportunities denied to him by his apparent inferior genetics.

huls
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 7:03 am

She is fully right though. Please update yourself on the Nuremberg Code
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code

Direct consequence of Nazi ideology which permitted medical experimentation on people without consent.

All Covid-19 jabs are experimental at this moment.

Newt2u
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2021 11:28 am

Exactly! Quite firmly in them.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
April 6, 2021 3:57 pm

The libtard thought police do not allow opinion pieces written by those with different opinions. I guess Steve Richards is an anti-thinker.

Reply to  Steve Richards
April 6, 2021 6:46 pm

Heh. More like anti-human GMO-er …

mRNA =/= vaccine in my book.

Edit to add: Quoting a poster below: “By terming them “vaccines” rather than “immuno-therapeutics,” people are less concerned with the experimental nature of these treatments (mRNA).”

Last edited 15 days ago by _Jim
huls
Reply to  _Jim
April 7, 2021 7:08 am

Correct. At this moment there is no vaccin available for Covid-19. A vaccin is also not possible at the moment since the virus has not been isolated. The virus has only been modeled. Sounds familiar?
The current jabs are gene-therapies meant to cause an auto-immune reaction in your body. This is BTW in stark violation of the Hippocratic Oath. That’s why there are so many health professionals refusing to cooperate and rightfully so.

Reply to  huls
April 7, 2021 12:16 pm

James Deligpole interview with Dr Mike Yeadon, former CSO and VP, Allergy and Respiratory Research Head with Pfizer Global R&D and co-Founder of Ziarco Pharma Ltd, talks about his grave concerns about the Coronavirus jab.

https://delingpole.podbean.com/e/dr-mike-yeadon-1617215402/

Reply to  ALLAN MACRAE
April 9, 2021 1:02 pm

AS someone in the comments section at that site writes: “Is there a transcript of this conversation?”

Sara Hall
Reply to  _Jim
April 9, 2021 2:46 pm

It is available at “The Conservative Woman”, in four parts I believe, the first part appearing on Wednesday this week.

Reply to  Sara Hall
April 9, 2021 3:50 pm

Thank you Sara!

Reply to  Sara Hall
April 10, 2021 7:37 am

TU again Sara for the tip! And here are/here is the transcript of the above in 4 parts:

Ex-Pfizer science chief: You are being lied to about Covid, Part 1 of 4
By The Conservative Woman, April 7, 2021
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/ex-pfizer-science-chief-the-big-lies-about-covid/

Ex-Pfizer science chief on the Covid lies: Part 2
By The Conservative Woman, April 8, 2021
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/ex-pfizer-science-chief-on-the-covid-lies-part-2/

Ex-Pfizer science chief on the Covid lies: Part 3
By The Conservative Woman, April 9, 2021
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/ex-pfizer-science-chief-on-the-covid-lies-part-3/

Ex-Pfizer science chief on the Covid lies: Part 4 (last)
By The Conservative Woman, April 10, 2021
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/ex-pfizer-science-chief-on-the-covid-lies-part-4/

Steven Miller
Reply to  Steve Richards
April 6, 2021 10:28 pm

My mother had the first Moderna shot over six weeks ago. MY dad and her are in their mid 80s but used to go to the YMCA every day. It turned her from a healthy active peson to an invalid who now tells us that she just wants to die because she is in so much pain. She was walking a couple miles a day now she can’t make it from the bedroom to the bathroom without assistance. She has completely lost her appetite and looks like a Nazi death camp survivor. I do not expect her to live much longer.

I was a Hazmat officer for many years and have had 10 times more vaccinations than most people with never any complications. Half of my former coworkers have refused the experimental vaccines at the risk of losing their positions. The fact that adverse reactions like my mother’s are not being reported on and actively reported in the name of “social responsibility” is insane.

Mike NYC
Reply to  Steven Miller
April 7, 2021 6:51 am

I am very sorry to hear about your family’s reaction to the vaccine. My parents and step mother are all in their mid 70s. All have had both shots, and none have had any reaction more than soreness. My mother is very active and still works. My father and stepmother are obese to morbidly so, by the clinical definition of the terms. I can add about 10-20 more aunts/uncles between my wife and I in the 70+ age range some with COPD, others fit, and the rest in between. None had more than soreness and a day or two of tiredness like they get from a normal vaccine.

That being said, there should be better reporting, and I do not support people being compelled to take the shot.

icisil
Reply to  Steven Miller
April 7, 2021 9:15 am

If you’re in the US make sure you report that on VAERS

icisil
Reply to  icisil
April 7, 2021 9:17 am
ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 2:22 pm

Is Britain using a different vaccine? I know lots of people who have been vaccinated and none of them got “very sick” from it. The only complaints I’ve heard have been sore arms, which is typical with vaccinations. Either Britain is using a flawed vaccine or she’s flat out lying.

I do 100% agree that vaccination should not be mandatory (along with every other rule the elitist tyrants are imposing).

Deplorable D
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 3:00 pm

In my work place, about half the people who have received both doses of the Moderna vaccine were laid up for 2-3 days to the point they could not make it to work. I had one person sick for a week. Most of my people who were vaccinated are overweight and a the one who had the biggest reaction is also diabetic. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

shortie of greenbank
Reply to  Deplorable D
April 6, 2021 3:30 pm

It has been known for some time that the same co-mobidities that present a risk also proportionally reduce the effectiveness of vaccines. So when they say, for example, 94% effective, they are testing this on deliberately selected ‘healthy’ subjects that traditionally have higher immune function and would also naturally be quite likely to develop a t cell response without the vaccine.

These same people with these conditions also often have very low vitamin d levels, vaccine reactions or in fact impacts of flu in general are associated quite strongly with vitamin d status.

icisil
Reply to  shortie of greenbank
April 6, 2021 6:36 pm

“So when they say, for example, 94% effective…”

When they say the Moderna vaccine is 95% effective, they are lying. It is 0.57% “effective”. 95% is the relative risk which is meaningless.

90 of 15,000 in the placebo arm exhibited symptoms (0.6%). Just symptoms; no PCR tests were done.

5 of 15,000 in the vaccine arm exhibited symptoms (0.03%). Just symptoms; no PCR tests were done.

Absolute risk is (90/15000 – 5/15000) * 100 = 0.57%

Relative risk is (90/15000)/(90/15000 + 5/15000) * 100 = 95%

The reason the relative risk is meaningless is because it doesn’t convey anything about actual risk; it’s just a number. If the arms each had been a thousand times larger (15,000,000) with the same number of symptomatic in each arm (90, 5), the absolute risk would be (0.00057%), which is trivial, but the relative risk would still be the same (95%), which is meaningless.

[please fix the incorrect email address cached in your browser. It’s what causing you to be moderated-mod]

icisil
Reply to  icisil
April 6, 2021 7:11 pm

10-4. I wondered what was going on. thx

Reply to  icisil
April 7, 2021 12:45 am

This is an extremely important point about one of the several ways that pharmaceutical companies use irregular math to mislead. Using their technique: I say I have a vanishingly small risk of dying from Covid; I also would have a vanishingly small risk of dying from the genetic therapy which means the genetic therapy approximately doubles (100% increases) my risk of dying. Clearly the vaccine is a bad choice if you use Pharmaceutical math.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  icisil
April 7, 2021 5:29 am

but?
what WAS the Placebo used?
it should have been at most the standard flu jab but I bet it wasnt

shortie of greenbank
Reply to  ozspeaksup
April 8, 2021 2:35 am

Placebo should be saline solution but they often substitute a shot with no active remnants of the virus but all the adjuvants are still there.

There are some small scale double blind flu trials that have used saline solutions and lets say the results were not good. A 2012 released paper indicated a 440% increase in non-flu pneumonia in the 9 months after getting the shot in children for example if they received the flu vaccine compared to those who recieved the placebo. The same size was small (just under 120 children involved) but when you are talking 440% for an RCT, not epidemiology, then these numbers start to matter.

Paul C
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 3:24 pm

Britain has been using the Phizer/BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines. Moderna has also now been approved, and Novavax is expected to gain approval soon. Due to the cryogenic storage requirements, Phizer is used mainly in hospital settings, so has been used more for staff, while the Oxford vaccine has been used more in the elderly.
The UK uses a yellow card adverse reactions reporting system.
Summary of UK Yellow Card (ADR reporting) data up to 21 March 2021
27,994,581 people have received their first vaccination.
Most of the ADRs are short term minor issues to be expected such as pain at injection site, headache, fever, etc.
For Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine
10.8 million first doses, and approx 2.2 million second doses
40,883 UK Yellow Cards reporting 116,627 ADRs
283 Deaths
For Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine
15.8 million first doses, just a few second doses.
99,817 UK Yellow Cards reporting 377,487 ADRs
421 Deaths
Vaccine brand not specified
379 Yellow Cards
9 Deaths.
While it is claimed that the death rate is not disproportionate to what would be expected in that population, the reverse appears to be applied to covid infections, with any death following a positive test being attributed to covid despite evidence to the contrary.

David A
Reply to  Paul C
April 6, 2021 9:01 pm

Yes, so hardly “no bad reactions” as the media often portrays.
1. How come the exact demographics of the adverse reaction cases is not published.
2. His come that demographic is not compared to what would be normal in a random similar demographic? ( It is not from a lack of budget)
3. If governments were serious about asking everyone to trust the vaccine safety, would they not publish such information?
4. Are the reported adverse reactions just a portion of the actual number, or do they record 100 percent of the adverse reactions?
( In the US case I have heard that the vast majority of adverse reactions are not recorded, yet I don’t know.)
5. In the CAGW hypothesis, the alarmists refuse to debate very well qualified, well published PHD scientists. Likewise the Cov19 alarmists, refuse to debate very respected PHD scientists who outline many potential harms from the vaccine, some that, if they occur, will not be known for years. How come these potential harms are summarily dismissed and the concerned qualified scientists slandered?

TRM
Reply to  David A
April 7, 2021 7:54 am

Like Dr Kory at flccc.net and Dr Borody in Australia.

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  Paul C
April 6, 2021 9:04 pm

Does anyone have any figures on the Johnson & Johnson vaccine?

It is available in San Bernardino County, southern California – but only in remote locations as it doesn’t involve a second shot. Made the ‘old-fashioned’ way, and I’m old. At present the nearest location is a 190 mile round trip, and I’ve already talked to a Uber driver.

Alex
Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
April 6, 2021 10:01 pm

J&J is the first component of Sputnik.
I am now completely vaccinated with Sputnik.
I’ve got zero adverse reaction after the first dose. Likewise most of my friends.
I know one woman though, she got a benigh fever first night.

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  Alex
April 6, 2021 10:09 pm

Thank you Alex. Anyone else – personal experience or numbers?

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
April 7, 2021 1:22 am

Everyone over 50 in my community has had either the AZ or pfizer vaccine. Many of them the second dose also.

Sore arms were common. Mild flu like or generally a ‘bit under the weather’ symptoms reported. My wife had none of these after the Pfizer jab whilst I was a bit under the weather.

I know of no one at all who has had anything more serious than that and with a large hospital close by and a family member working in the NHS locally I have heard no reports of medical staff dropping like flies or refusing the jabs

With active newspapers, social media etc, if there was this problem stated in the article it would be given far more prominence than it has, social media in particular would be all over these number of refusals or deaths like a rash if they had occurred

Whether or not various govts wildly over reacted to the pandemic is one thing, the vaccine rollout and its safety is another.

tonyb

very old white guy
Reply to  tonyb
April 7, 2021 6:05 am

next year is coming.

Jones
Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
April 7, 2021 3:03 am

I had my second Pfizer shot earlier today.

I had a hot flush about an hour later that lasted approximately 90 minutes which my esteemed and very very educated colleague said was the menopause.

I did ask him if he could prescribe for me a hormone patch to counter this distressing albeit brief side-effect but he wisely informed me that it might cause testicular shrinkage and moobs.

I’m so fortunate that I work with educated peoples.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
April 7, 2021 5:42 am

sputnik or the jnj seem to be the safer options
older known process

nickc
Reply to  Paul C
April 7, 2021 11:20 am

What are the death comparisons between covid vaccines and others?

Stevek
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 4:06 pm

I got 2nd dose of moderna and I had aches and some chills the next day. By 48 hours was gone. 1st dose was just slightly sore shoulder.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Stevek
April 6, 2021 7:45 pm

The only reaction I had to two shots of Moderna was a slightly sore arm both times. It’s been a month since I had the second shot, and everything seems to be normal.

Bill
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 6, 2021 8:41 pm

The real question is – where you “normal” before the shots?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Bill
April 7, 2021 7:38 pm

I guess that depends on who you ask.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 5:03 pm

I guess your sample size may vary, but I know few people who have been vaccinated and many of them ended up being admitted to hospital.

Yes, small sample size and it is human nature to talk up the ‘bad’ rather than the ‘good’ (aka – very few people are likely to come running into work the next day bragging about how nothing happened after their jab), but my Government constantly brags about how the vaccine is ‘SAFE’. Personally the words ‘SAFE’ and ‘My wife was admitted to hospital’ don’t really work well together.

Remember ‘1 in 1,000,000’ is wonderful provided you are part of the 999,999. The numbers I have heard for fatal blood clotting is 1 in 600,000, which suggests if all of Australia was exposed to this risk then 40 people would die. Only a small number in context, unless you are one of the 40.

Now, Your Country May Vary, but in my part of the world no one has died with China Virus all year, so is it unreasonably to ask for the latest information on the current risk reduction plan?

TimTheToolMan
Reply to  Craig from Oz
April 9, 2021 3:51 pm

“The numbers I have heard for fatal blood clotting is 1 in 600,000, which suggests if all of Australia was exposed to this risk then 40 people would die.”

We’ve been incredibly fortunate to have kept the virus out of Australia but even still we lost 909 people to the virus. Compare that to say the UK who lost 53 people yesterday alone. And that’s well into the vaccination phase where herd immunity is rising.

You’re right, it’s all about the numbers and it’s possible that some of the 40 people who statistically would die from the vaccine might have survived the virus if it was allowed to run lurchingly controlled-ish through the country like most countries ended up doing which would have ultimately ended with herd immunity for the survivors.

But thousands and thousands of other Australians would die in that process.

Life is all about risk. There were 94 road deaths last month in Australia. Occasionally airbags cause the deaths.

Zurab Abayev
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 5:16 pm

UK uses Astra Zeneca

saveenergy
Reply to  Zurab Abayev
April 6, 2021 11:24 pm

Phizer/BioNTech was the first in use ~12 million doses
Oxford-AstraZeneca was second to be approved ~16 million doses
Moderna is now approved & the first jabs are in West Wales today April 7

saveenergy
Reply to  saveenergy
April 6, 2021 11:45 pm

Just in –
University of Oxford had decided to pause trials of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK that involved children between the ages of 12 and 15.

M Courtney
Reply to  saveenergy
April 7, 2021 12:17 am

The reason being that children between the ages of 12 and 15 have virtually no risk from the disease and are only being vaccinated to protect the elderly. Any adverse effect is hard to justify with no direct benefit.
It is well documented that people feel poorly after the jab.
It’s also well-documented that permanent illnesses or hospitalisations are vanishingly rare.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 1:17 am

You are not keeping up with current events are you?

M Courtney
Reply to  Patrick MJD
April 7, 2021 2:12 am

Actually I am up to date with the latest news.

Elsewhere on this thread I point out that the death rate in the UK is very low at the moment – disproving the crazy theory that the vaccine is significantly more deadly than not having the vaccine (even if there was no Covid around).

But there is Covid around. And the vaccine saves lives. Lies take lives.
Here are some facts for you to get up to speed with:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/971017/SP_PH__VE_report_20210317_CC_JLB.pdf

very old white guy
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 6:09 am

I guess if things are not reported they are not really happening. s/

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 1:29 am

Yes, the UK govt originally seemed to be working on the basis that once the most vulnerable -the very elderly and the sick- had been vaccinated then society could open up.

After a very successful vaccine programme it seems the govt intends to vaccinate everyone in sight whether or not there is statistically any risk to them.

The intention seems to be all adults need to be vaccinated-over 18’s-and with these trials it appears school age children are now inn the Govt sights.

If the vaccine works the most vulnerable have already been vaccinated and after second doses administered to this group there is no excuse for maintaining the restrictions.

very old white guy
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 6:08 am

How do you protect the elderly by giving a kid a vaccine that the manufacturers say cannot stop the transmission of the virus? I am confused.

M Courtney
Reply to  very old white guy
April 7, 2021 12:48 pm
Scissor
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 6:06 pm

Yes, there is no reason for healthy young people to be “vaccinated”, especially children. It’s infuriating that numerous politicians are calling for 100% vaccination of the population and Pfizer has even begun trials on infants and young kids.

Simon
Reply to  Scissor
April 8, 2021 11:59 am

Yes, there is no reason for healthy young people to be “vaccinated”, especially children. “
There is a very strong argument for high levels of vaccination including children and that is we need to stamp this thing out. All the time it is lurking amongst the unvaccinated, it can mutate and then we are back to lockdowns and potentially a lot more death.

Steve Reddish
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2021 12:36 pm

But, the vaccine is not claimed to reduce chance of carrying covid, so vaccinating children would not protect the elderly.
Some risk, yet zero benefit = total waste of time and money.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 5:31 pm

ScarletMacaw posted: “I know lots of people who have been vaccinated and none of them got “very sick” from it.”

And just how long have you been tracking those people who have been vaccinated? Are you aware it can take a year or longer to develop long term body reactions to anything foreign that is injected into a human body.

Ever hear of “long hauler” syndrome from being infected by SARS-CoV-2 virus? Since the vaccines currently being administered for COVID-19 immunization basically mimic infection by SARS-COV-2 in order to develop antibodies against it in humans, who’s to say those same vaccines might not inculcate a version of long hauler syndrome in people receiving the vaccines?

Get back to us when you have a year or two of safety data on the vaccines.

BTW, even aspirin comes with a list of FDA safety precautions and possible side effects from its use . . . why do you think the same thing is not being provided for any of the four versions of the COVID-19 vaccinations???

David A
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 8:44 pm

I recommend you go to the UK website that documents all the adverse reactions. I forgot to save it. It took some time to find it, as it was well hidden.

Adam Gallon
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 6, 2021 11:34 pm

We’re using the Oxford/AstraZeneca (Both myself & my wife have had our first shots, both of us felt tired & spaced out the next day), the Pfizer BioNTech & the Moderna vaccine is available as of today.

very old white guy
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 7, 2021 6:04 am

As of April 1st European Adverse Drug Reaction: 3,964 dead, 162,610 serious injuries. Sure looks like something I would take a risk on, not. If your government is refusing to report adverse reactions or deaths you might be living in a totalitarian state much like Canada.

Tombstone Gabby
Reply to  very old white guy
April 7, 2021 7:49 pm

My thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

It will be the J. & J. product.

Background? I was born a couple of months before Pearl Harbor, my wife even earlier. We’re both life-long smokers, and I’m on blood pressure reducing pills. Are we ‘concerned’? Somewhat. “Anti – ?” No. We both spent time in the tropics in the 1960’s – all sorts of inoculations, get pneumonia shots every couple of years, a “Shingles” shot several years ago. Not “anti-“, just wanting better information than is dished out by the MSM.

Sassy
Reply to  ScarletMacaw
April 8, 2021 3:40 pm

Updated 1st April 2021 – MHRA Yellow Card Reporting – cumulatively 14 weeks for Pfizer (approx 13 million doses) and 10 weeks for Astrazeneca (approx 16million doses)

Reactions – 116,627 (Pfizer) + 377,487 (AZ) + 1231 (Unknown) = 495,345

Reports – 40,883 (Pfizer) + 99,817 (AZ) + 379 (Unknown) = 141,079

Fatal – 283 (Pfizer) + 421 (AZ) + 9 (Unknown) = 713

Acute Cardiac – 1462 (Pfizer) + 3768 (AZ) + 7 (Unknown) = 5237

Chest Pain – 651 (Pfizer) + 9441 (AZ) + 6 (Unknown) = 10,098

Anaphylaxis – 246 (Pfizer) + 390 (AZ) = 636

Infections – 2653 (Pfizer) + 7375 (AZ) + 22 (Unknown) = 10,050

Eye Disorders – 1758 (Pfizer) + 4566 (AZ) = 18 (Unknown) = 6342

Blindness – 17 (Pfizer) + 59 (AZ) = 76

Psychiatric Disorders – 1796 (Pfizer) + 6756 (AZ) + 31 (Unknown) = 8583

Skin Disorders – 8425 (Pfizer) + 20379 (AZ) + 73 (Unknown) = 28,877

Spontaneous Abortions – 32 (Pfizer) + 13 (AZ) = 45

Vomiting – 1459 (Pfizer) + 6330 (AZ) + 28 (Unknown) = 7817

Facial Paralysis – 243 (Pfizer) + 170 (AZ) + 1 (Unknown) = 414

Nervous System Disorders – 22,156 (Pfizer) + 81,702 (AZ) + 265 (Unknown) = 104,123

Disturbances in Consciousness – 1719 (Pfizer) + 4719 (AZ) + 23 (Unknown) = 6533

Strokes and Thrombolytic Events – 156 (Pfizer) + 309 (AZ) + 2 (Unknown) = 467

Respiratory Disorders – 4932 (Pfizer) + 10643 (AZ) + 32 (Unknown) = 15,607

Seizures – 231 (Pfizer) + 692 (AZ) + 3 (Unknown) = 926

Paralysis – 92 (Pfizer) + 235 (AZ) + 2 (Unknown) = 329

Haemorrhage (All types) – 270 (Pfizer) + 590 (AZ) + 3 (Unknown) = 863

Consider these figures as a fraction of the actual level of AE, it is estimated only 10% of AEs are reported – consider in context of human suffering, level of healthcare burden needed for management of AE and the injuries that humanity is prepared to ignore and deny in order to get back to ‘normal’..

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

SMC
April 6, 2021 2:24 pm

Hmmm… doctors afraid of taking one of the vaccines. Guess it’s a good thing I haven’t had it and I have no plans to get it. Louis Farrakhan called the vaccine “toxic waste”. It’s one of the few times I and that bigoted, hateful, racist, anti-Semite, radical Muslim actually agree on something.

Last edited 16 days ago by SMC
Deplorable D
Reply to  SMC
April 6, 2021 3:03 pm

In my county, 55% of doctors and 45% of nurses are refusing to take the vaccine. One doctor told me he read all the research papers submitted to the FDA and his analysis was the testing was very weak. There are too many questions that are not answered. One is none of the companies addressed the issue of previous mRNA vaccines causing death in animals that were later exposed to wild virus. The lack of animal studies with these mRNA drugs was a concern for him. He also noted the trial groups were very selective. They seemed to only test on younger, healthy adults (25-40, with no co-morbidities).

Timo, not that one
Reply to  Deplorable D
April 7, 2021 5:58 am

One lab rat asks another, “Have you gotten the Covid-19 vaxination?” The other one replies “No, the human trials haven’t been completed yet.”

Reply to  Timo, not that one
April 7, 2021 7:21 am

comment image
Correct 😀

john
April 6, 2021 2:26 pm

It appears that you don’t have to read a dodgy antivax website to get un-evidenced purely anecdotal misinformation about the Covid vaccine, just read the BMJ, priceless!

This is why double blind trials are necessary, you can always find a medic who agrees with anything! Katya has opened a can of worms and all of them are stuck together.

Double blind randomised trials were carried out and my understanding is the side effects reported by those receiving the placebo, roughly equated to those receiving the vaccine. That is the way these things turn out, tell people they might get ill after taking a pill, and not unsurprisingly they will. Put it as a warning in the “patient information leaflet” the result is certain.

However rare blood clots are a different matter, but this condition is so rare and specialised that only a few medics even know what it is, and as both Covid and the vaccine create the auto immune antibodies that appear to be the cause, it requires the expert of experts to sort out what is going on.

But this uncertainty doesn’t seem to effect Katya, she already knows!

Spetzer86
Reply to  john
April 6, 2021 2:35 pm

Yeah, they’d never lie about blinded clinical trial data: https://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4294983341

Scissor
Reply to  Spetzer86
April 6, 2021 5:04 pm

More reason to be skeptical.

Pfizer set a record for the largest health care fraud settlement and the largest criminal fine of any kind with $2.3 billion in 2009.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history

TRM
Reply to  Scissor
April 6, 2021 7:24 pm

And yet nobody went to jail.

Roger Knights
Reply to  TRM
April 6, 2021 9:16 pm

Too big to jail.

Paul C
Reply to  john
April 6, 2021 4:11 pm

If a trial is necessary, you would have to wait until the trial (double blind or not) is completed before you start rolling out a novel drug/vaccine. As the vaccine Phase III trials follow the patients for about two years, after a development of typically 5 to 10 years, the failure to complete the trials would mean you would not permit the rollout of the vaccines. You also require animal testing before even going into Phase I human trials, but this step was missed out. Previous coronavirus vaccines have failed at the animal testing stage.
The failure to complete the trials is why the vaccines are NOT approved in the conventional sense. They are only authorised for early/emergency use, but remain unlicensed. Note: the wording varies across authorities, but the principle is the same in that unlicensed/unapproved vaccines have been authorised for use.
It appears that this uncertainty doesn’t affect you, as you already know the outcome of the uncompleted trials.

Scissor
Reply to  Paul C
April 6, 2021 5:09 pm

I’ve heard about animal testing shortcuts. This article says that animals were used to test for ADE.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/91648

ozspeaksup
Reply to  john
April 7, 2021 5:50 am

when a placebo is another vaccine and NOT saline..therefore ensuring placebo users will be reporting issues masking the rates of the trialled med
thats crooked.
the “placebo” used in one of the trials was a known to create issues vax stuffed If i can remember what it was just now

Timo, not that one
Reply to  john
April 7, 2021 8:01 am

Husband: How is that Thalidomide working out honey?
Pregnant Wife: Great! I have no side effects.

Scissor
Reply to  Timo, not that one
April 7, 2021 6:11 pm

That’s another good one. The clot thickens.

D. J. Hawkins
April 6, 2021 2:30 pm

So I went to my primary care physician for something non-Covid today. I asked him what he thought. In my case, he thought that the odds were good that I wouldn’t have an issue, and given that I have 3 co-morbidities, it was probably a good idea. He also said that if I have any concerns, he’d understand if I want to wait. They are pushing us at work to get vaccinated, since we deal with the public a lot and this is as much a way to protect our personnel as anything else. I’m scheduled for my first shot on Friday, Moderna vaccine.

eyesonu
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
April 6, 2021 3:07 pm

Did he say what the odds were if you didn’t get the vaccine?

commieBob
Reply to  eyesonu
April 6, 2021 5:34 pm

The statistic that matters to me is that all the vaccines reduce the chance of death to near zero.

The chances of me getting the wuflu are actually minimal but, given my age, my chances of dying if I do get it are rather high.

Unsurprisingly I got my first shot as quickly as it became available to me.

Mark E Shulgasser
Reply to  commieBob
April 6, 2021 7:37 pm

The chances of getting struck by a brick falling off a building are actually minimal, but if I do get struck by one (regardless of my age) my chances of dying are rather high. Unsurprisingly I don’t go outside.

commieBob
Reply to  Mark E Shulgasser
April 6, 2021 8:23 pm

Some folks will be surprised to find that people do get killed by falling bricks.

Here are some statistics on causes of death. Falling bricks would come under “Struck by thrown, projected, or falling object”.

We can be skeptical of the statistics for wuflu deaths, I will grant you that, but as many as 500,000 Americans have succumbed to the disease. Let’s be skeptical and round it off to 100,000.

A quick web search leads me to believe that maybe five Americans have been killed by falling bricks in the last year.

So, my chances of dying of the wuflu are at least 20,000 times as great as your chances of being struck by a falling brick.

Richard
Reply to  commieBob
April 7, 2021 8:55 am

Average life span 82 years . Average age of death for covid 82 years .CDC data – 94% of deaths were with an additional, average 3.8 other Diseases. Doubtful if a vaccine, even if it was proven to cure the virus, would have any effect on this age group and with this amount of diseases.

Scissor
Reply to  commieBob
April 7, 2021 6:38 pm

Icisil might ask you to consider absolute risk in addition to relative risk.

I bet one’s risk of dying from a falling brick is inversely proportional to that of dying from covid. Something on the order of 90% or more of the covid deaths in the U.S. were of older unhealthy people, and deaths from falling bricks in nursing homes are hospitals are probably around zero.

Falling bricks are more likely to finish off a young and healthy person as they are more likely to be bricklayers or work in construction where such a risk is greater. Wearing a hard hat is definitely recommended for such workers in any case.

It’s all a matter of circumstance. Individuals need to make up their own minds and accept the consequences. For me, I’m at relatively low risk, so I’ll take vitamin D and wait to see what happens.

Last edited 14 days ago by Scissor
commieBob
Reply to  Mark E Shulgasser
April 6, 2021 8:33 pm

Oh darn. I wrote a reply but it’s stuck in moderation.

On sober second thought, perhaps it’s just as well that you don’t go outside.

Scissor
Reply to  commieBob
April 7, 2021 6:41 pm

A synonym for “finish off” put me in moderation too.

Juan
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
April 6, 2021 8:31 pm

Two people I know died from it. Also it’s not a vaccine and doesn’t prevent infection or transmission, so working with the public is irrelevant. It only lessens symptoms.

kcrucible
Reply to  Juan
April 7, 2021 4:45 am

That isn’t true. They hadn’t had any proof initially, hence not being able to state definitively whether it impacts transmission. They do now. Of some of the earliest medical workers administered, they had them take weekly PCR tests. The vaccine prevented even asymptomatic contagion… no PCR trigger = no trasmission.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/if-youre-vaccinated-can-you-transmit-covid-19-what-we-know#Some-vaccines-block-most-infections
[quote]
Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released initial results from a studyTrusted Source

 on the real-world effectiveness of the two mRNA vaccines approved in the United States, those developed by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna-NIAID.

Researchers collected weekly nasal swabs from all participants to see if they had any viral genetic material, regardless of whether they had COVID-19 symptoms.
They also collected an additional nasal swab and saliva sample if people developed symptoms.

The vaccines were 90 percent effective at blocking infections — symptomatic and asymptomatic — in people who had two doses of the vaccine, and 80 percent effective in people who had one dose.
[/quote]

Now, there’s still a 10% chance that the vaccine didn’t prevent you getting infected… it’s not 100%. In that scenario, you could still spread.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  kcrucible
April 7, 2021 6:52 am

kcrucible posted: The vaccines were 90 percent effective at blocking infections — symptomatic and asymptomatic — in people who had two doses of the vaccine, and 80 percent effective in people who had one dose.”

OK, if true, but at what cost (risk) to their long term health?

How many of those vaccinated have already developed—or will develop over, say, the next two years—what is now know as “long hauler” syndrome? Try to find published statistics on that.

kcrucible
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
April 7, 2021 3:20 pm

And unchecked, they’ll just get it “in the wild” with the same “long hauler” repercussions. Eventually, the distancing and masks are going away. Those not protected in some way are going to get it. You can do it in a controlled way, or take your chances.

Steve Reddish
Reply to  kcrucible
April 8, 2021 1:19 pm

Yet Fauci still says masks and separation recommended!

Simon
Reply to  Juan
April 8, 2021 12:05 pm

Also it’s not a vaccine and doesn’t prevent infection or transmission”
What???? These vaccines are proving more effective than hoped at stopping transmission. And are you saying you know two people personally who died after having a covid vaccine. I say BS to that.

lee riffee
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
April 7, 2021 12:45 pm

I signed up back in the end of February to be notified when shots for my group would become available, and I just got notification and was able to schedule an appointment today. I am in the essential worker group as defined by the CDC. While my employer is not mandating the vaccine, I am choosing to get it because I care for elderly people who often have more than a few co-morbidities. If I didn’t work with elderly people in their homes I would likely wait a bit longer as I am in my early 50’s and have no co-morbidities.

Steve Richards
April 6, 2021 2:31 pm

Why do they say “In fact, it is clearly stated that these vaccine products do not offer immunity or stop transmission. In which case why are we doing it?

Offer immunity? Does she not read papers that everyone else reads?

The various vaccines are not 100% effective. They are between 70 to 90% effective, depending on which product and which dose your are talking about.

As to teams in the health service all being sick due to being vaccinated, show us any evidence at all.
We have a very effective yellow card scheme where anyone can report any symptom after taking any medicine. All yellow card reports are published.

Re blood clots, more blood clots occur taking birth control pills. Both appear to be a very rare occurrence.

Death rate in UK currently 20 to 30 per day.

Deplorable D
Reply to  Steve Richards
April 6, 2021 2:54 pm

The effectiveness is not based on protection from SARS-CoV-2, nor that a vaccinated person will develop COVID-19. The studies on the drugs only declares they are X% effective at preventing serious symptoms (namely hospitalization). NIH on the Janssen vaccine says it appears to be effective in “preventing moderate and severe COVID-19 in adults.” It does not say it prevents infection of SARS-CoV-2, nor transmission of said virus.

On 4/6/21 the WHO press briefing on COVID-19 and vaccine passports included, “We currently do not have enough data on whether or not the vaccines prevent transmission, to say this would be an effective strategy.”

The NIH in the US states, “There is not yet enough available data to draw conclusions as to whether the [Moderna] vaccine can impact SARS-CoV-2 transmission.”

Moderna’s chief science officer (Dr Zaks) told the BMJ “Our trial will not demonstrate prevention of transmission.”

On 1/26/21 the WHO stated, “We do not know whether the vaccines will prevent infection and protect against onward transmission.”

CDC guidance to vaccine administrators says, “Can a person who has received a Covid-19 vaccine still spread Covid-19? At this time, we do not know if COVID-19 vaccination will have any effect on preventing transmission.”

The CDC Advisory Committee that recommended the EUA for the Moderna vaccine noted, “the level of certainty for the benefits of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was… type 4 (very low certainty) for the estimates of prevention of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection and all-cause death.”

The FDA Briefing Documents of all three vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna, and Janssen) state, “Data are limited to assess the effect of the vaccine against transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from individuals who are infected despite vaccination.”

So I would say the doctor here has good reason to be skeptical when even the people pushing the drugs cannot say they do what people think they can do.

Last edited 16 days ago by Deplorable D
Reply to  Deplorable D
April 6, 2021 3:51 pm

And long term side effects are not known at all.

Scissor
Reply to  Deplorable D
April 6, 2021 4:19 pm

By terming them “vaccines” rather than “immuno-therapeutics,” people are less concerned with the experimental nature of these treatments (mRNA).

All adverse reactions including death seem to be rare, but the media, pharma and governments are down playing these complications. The risk of antibody dependent enhancement seems to be minimal based on observation but the possibility of long term autoimmune disorders can’t be ruled out for a while.

There certainly are reasons to be skeptical given the suspected origins of SARS-CoV-2 and all of the disinformation from China associated with it.

To be conspiratorial, if the release was intentional, then this might actually be the first phase of a multi-phase attack. Dr. Yeadon imagines this.

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-fxdut-ff643b?utm_campaign=w_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=w_share

Derg
Reply to  Scissor
April 6, 2021 4:34 pm

Marketing is everything

Scissor
Reply to  Derg
April 7, 2021 6:45 pm

They have their work cut out for them, but propagandists are the best at it.

Next up, a contraceptive injection for males that still requires a condom.

David A
Reply to  Scissor
April 6, 2021 9:15 pm

Scissor, my understanding is that it is to early to know if antibody dependent enhancement is happening, as that may happen with later exposure.
Some professionals are concerned with the vaccination program developing a worse or more virulent strain of the virus.

Reply to  David A
April 7, 2021 7:29 am

That’s what I read too, they they it’s absolutely wrong to vaccinate the complete population during a pandemy.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Scissor
April 7, 2021 7:31 am

Scissor, right on!

And it’s not just concern about using mRNA for the first time for widespread vaccination, but also for the polyethylene glycol (PEG)—basically antifreeze—nanoparticles used to encapsulate the mRNA. This also has never before been used in widespread human vaccination programs.

The Moderna, AstraZeneca, and Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccines all use PEG nanoparticles. The Janssen (aka Johnson & Johnson) COVID-19 vaccine does not use either mRNA or PEG (ref: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/janssen/downloads/Janssen-Standing-Orders.pdf )

Here’s a link giving details surrounding use of PEG in the human body, primarily focusing on anaphylactic reactions within a short time after being vaccinated (but, interestingly, not commenting on possible long term effects of injection of PEG nanoparticles into a human body):
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nanoparticles-pfizer-s-covid-19-vaccine-trigger-rare-allergic-reactions

Timo, not that one
Reply to  Steve Richards
April 9, 2021 9:21 am

“If you don’t read the newspaper, you’re uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you’re mis-informed.”Mark Twain

Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 2:33 pm

Lots of anti-vax retards around, with all kinds of “reasons” why they won’t take it. You really can’t fix stupid.

eyesonu
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 3:12 pm

There’s a lot of retards that will accept anything that the government tells them is a good thing.

Scissor
Reply to  eyesonu
April 7, 2021 6:47 pm

In native American history, the government said turn in your guns and we’ll take care of you.

Mr. Lee
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 3:18 pm

Glad you are so respectful of others peoples highly individual and personal health decisions.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 3:23 pm

Why not treat with proven HCQ or Ivermectin, correctly given in early stage ?
Why the fixation on unproven vaccines ?

shortie of greenbank
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 6, 2021 4:00 pm

Also the use of high dose vitamin d injections and the use of ventilin also has excellent results in trials and hospital testing.

Miha
Reply to  shortie of greenbank
April 6, 2021 10:52 pm

Please don’t write this kind of thing unless you’re prepared to provide a link to those ‘excellent results’ or some other form of support for the assertion.

shortie of greenbank
Reply to  Miha
April 8, 2021 2:43 am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7456194/

Not much to read, it is pretty cut ‘n’ dried.

https://www.qut.edu.au/news?id=173372

Anything else?

Reply to  Miha
April 11, 2021 6:12 am

re: “unless you’re prepared to provide a link to those ‘excellent results’ or some other form of support for the assertion.”

Start here: https://c19study.com/

Once there pick a category from the ‘top row’ across the screen.

You’re welcome.

Scissor
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 6, 2021 4:23 pm

There is a criteria for Emergency Use Authorization in the U.S. that “there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives.”

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained

shortie of greenbank
Reply to  Scissor
April 6, 2021 4:48 pm

so if they remove approval for cheap effective treatments they leave nothing left but poorly tested vaccines…. nice.

Sharon
Reply to  Scissor
April 7, 2021 4:35 pm

Yes it is about money.. I was an accountant in a Pharma company..believe me when I say that profit is the number one priority to these people. Vaccines are golden eggs as they have zero liability with them also.

Scissor
Reply to  Sharon
April 7, 2021 6:49 pm

Imagine how good auto airbags would be if manufacturer’s had zero liability.

Adam Gallon
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 6, 2021 11:41 pm

How about HCQ isn’t effective?

Reply to  Adam Gallon
April 7, 2021 5:46 am

If used following the protocoll and give it early, it works, if you use it the bad way to prove the not-working and give it to late, than it doesn’t.
Vaccinaton is prefered, not the healing, why ever.

Reply to  Adam Gallon
April 11, 2021 6:18 am

Glad you asked … check out the results of studies here:

https://c19hcq.com/

hcq_summary_2021-04-1.jpg
ozspeaksup
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 7, 2021 6:00 am

hmm following the money
billions spent on funding vaxmakers using public monies
so useful or not theyre not going to admit the utter waste of funds are they?
remember the billions wasted on Tamiflu n was it relenza? for H1N1 and about the margin of time to improve about 1 to 2 days at most with some risks of adverse events to more than a few
over a simple xinc/vit C option?
and they STILL flog tamiflu for flu here in aus.
and the swineflu is now endemic and still kills a few every yr but doesnt rate a mention now

Sharon
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 7, 2021 4:34 pm

Exactly! But there is a lot of money to be made on vaccines! Not so much on cheap effective treatments! Follow the money! Ivermectin is being used by a lot of people now with success. I have a very high risk friend who got covid and got the standard “go home and hope you don’t die advice” and could not get in to see her doctor. She’s autoimmune, with heart trouble, clotting problems and a crappy immune system. She started taking ivermectin (had some on hand for her livestock) that first day. She had a rough time but got thru it and believes the ivermectin saved her. Some doctors will prescribe it now as it’s really helpful.

Scissor
Reply to  Sharon
April 7, 2021 6:54 pm

Here’s a link to all of the COVID-19 ivermectin trials. It’s kind of sick that virtually all are being done in second or third world countries, presumably because there’s no more in it.

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?recrs=&cond=Covid19&term=ivermectin&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=

Simon
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 8, 2021 12:13 pm

Why not treat with proven HCQ or Ivermectin, correctly given in early stage ?
Why the fixation on unproven vaccines ?”
These is no reliable evidence that HCQ is effective against covid, so I find it rather ironic that you are scared of “unproven vaccines” of which there is no mountains of evidence that they are extremely safe and effective.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300272693/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-incidents-spark-pfizer-recommendation-for-under-50s-in-australia

Timo, not that one
Reply to  Simon
April 9, 2021 9:28 am

Ivermectin is long known to be very safe. Why no “warp speed” to bring it to widespread testing, like the current, totally experimental, gene splicing therapy.

Notanacademic
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 4:33 pm

There has been no long term testing, so can the anti-vax retards call the vaccinated gullible guinea pigs or should we stop throwing insults and let everyone decide for themselves. Perhaps we should all have used ivermectin, Bangladesh seems to be doing well with it.

TRM
Reply to  Notanacademic
April 6, 2021 7:44 pm

And Zimbabwe just kicked the South African variant to the curb in short order with Ivermectin.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/videos-and-press/flccc-weekly-update/

Roger Knights
Reply to  TRM
April 6, 2021 9:25 pm

In Zimbabwe six members of parliament got Covid-19; three were untreated with ivermectin and died, three were treated with it and livid. That made the government do a 180.

GregK
Reply to  Roger Knights
April 6, 2021 11:32 pm

People will try anything when they are desperate but that doesn’t mean the anything is effective….prayer for example
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210201/Ivermectin-may-not-be-the-e28098silver-bullete28099-antiviral-against-COVID-19.aspx

Apparently some in Zimbabwe are advocating for the use of “nano” or colloidal silver. Usual stuff…it’s a cheap and effective treatment but Big Pharma is against it etc etc etc. Along the same lines as Covid testing was a way for Bill Gates Corporation to insert nanobots into peoples’ brains that would be turned on by 5G.
Siver might help with a cut or ulcer but….https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/does-colloidal-silver-work-covid-19/613177/

Roger Knights
Reply to  GregK
April 7, 2021 4:21 am

People will try anything when they are desperate but that doesn’t mean the anything is effective …”

So, if you were an MP in Zimbabwe, and had seen ivermectin’s perfect record vs. “standard of care” (Tylenol), you’d choose the latter?

The Peruvian meta-analysis you linked to in your first paragraph was published Feb. 1 as a preprint. It hasn’t been subsequently peer-reviewed, AFAIK. The six comments were negative, one noting that the authors are not specialists in meta-analysis. Another said, “the number of studies and the diversity of populations and researchers involved, all pointing to the same outcome makes this evidence stronger and we can say with confidence that there is a benefit of ivermectin ….”

Subsequently there have been more positive studies released and at least two positive meta-analyses, most notably this very professional one:

“Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection: a [25-page] Systematic Review and Meta-analysis”
Research Square preprint
Andrew Bryant, Population Health Sciences Institute, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK (Corresponding Author)
Theresa A. Lawrie, Evidence based Medicine Consultancy, Bath, UK.
https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-317485/v1/611bf808-b0eb-4a9a-b877-6d6cc8f79d54.pdf

Last edited 15 days ago by Roger Knights
David A
Reply to  Roger Knights
April 7, 2021 5:23 am

Roger, tried to open link yet it says corrupted file.

It is curious how Greg K starts with a broad generalization about ” people will say anything”, then adds a strawman about colloidal silver,
and throws in a cheap shot at prayer. What he did not do is read or listen to TRMs linked video from professionals in the field treating patients, acknowledge that success against a virulent strain, or read any of the meta analysis that supports Ivermectin.

Roger Knights
Reply to  David A
April 7, 2021 8:11 am

“Roger, tried to open link yet it says corrupted file.”

I just clicked on it and it worked. Is anyone else having trouble?

Scissor
Reply to  David A
April 7, 2021 6:57 pm

Looking at the rates of infection and death in Zimbabwe, it does appear that whatever they are doing worked.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  GregK
April 7, 2021 6:07 am

colloidal silver/iodine gargle and nasal spray and simple saline ALL can kill viruses in throat and nasal passages
why wouldnt you use them as an aid to prevent infection when theyre so affordable?
hydrogen peroxide can be nebulised btw so getting right where its needed into lungs

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Roger Knights
April 7, 2021 6:04 am

HQ can have side effects Ivermectin events are scant after 40+yrs of use even in large doses and for extended periods of time
Im taking 1.5ml orally every 2 or 3 week when i remember
and am worm free and hopefully somewhat resistant to a pile of viruses as well as covid.

Notanacademic
Reply to  TRM
April 8, 2021 8:43 am

Excellent clip thanks. Why aren’t the MSM broadcasting this.

Tired Old Nurse
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 5:01 pm

I get a flu shot every year because most facilities I work at require them. I refuse to get a Covid vaccine. The staffing at the hospital where I am working was severely impacted due to staff members calling in sick after the 2nd shit. I’ve been a nurse for 30 years and routinely work on Covid units (censuses are dropping though)… want to try and call me a retard or anti-vaxxer?

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Tired Old Nurse
April 6, 2021 5:42 pm

If the shoe fits…

Earthling2
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 10:28 am

Just remember it was your favourite President DJT, (who you detest) was able to expedite these vaccines in record time. You don’t need to insult everyone here.

Scissor
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 7:03 pm

I imagine you wear size 5 or 6.

Scissor
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 5:31 pm

Bruce, do you really think Dr. Polyakova is stupid?

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 7:14 pm

re: “Lots of anti-vax retards around, with all kinds of “reasons” why they won’t take it. You really can’t fix stupid.”

Tell me (before Covid) where have you heard THIS before: “My body – my choice!

Juan
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 8:33 pm

Why don’t you get in the boxcar Bob? The camp isn’t that bad, really.

Us anti-boxcar people will survive.

M Courtney
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 12:20 am

Actually the virus is fixing the stupid.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 1:15 am

Are you suggesting old people with co-morbidity issues are stupid? You are nothing on your father!

Last edited 15 days ago by Patrick MJD
M Courtney
Reply to  Patrick MJD
April 7, 2021 2:09 am

Nope. I’m suggesting that people who choose to increase their risk of death by assuming they know better than the clinical trials because they read something on the internet are very stupid.
And will be more likely to die.
Worse still, they are more likely to spread their disease to less stupid people.
But not their stupidity.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 2:23 am

Like stepping out on a road while gawping in to their phones?

David A
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 5:32 am

M Courtney, the same people that deny the effectiveness of Ivermectin and HCQ when correctly administered with zinc, and deny any benefit from sun exposure and vitamin D, and deny several meta analysis of all studies on those treatments, are the same people that are CAGW alarmists, the same people that control the media, the same people that debase the debater instead of their arguments( you are starting to fall into that camp) and the same people who call for global socialistic government and promote depopulation.

Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 5:56 am

That’s exactly the psychological way to force people to do s.th.what others want deciding for you. They don’t want it for what reason ever and you know nothing about.

Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 11:42 am

At least the stupids don’t fix the virus, that’s for sure 😀
As the others too 😀 😀

DonM
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2021 10:22 am

M Courtney,

Your racist tendencies are showing 🙂

Higher death rate for the dark skinned peoples…

Virus is ‘fixing’ the stupid.

(Dark skinned people are also more likely to be afraid of the vaccine…)

Keep going … clearer portrait beginning to show 🙂

Abolition Man
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 9:25 am

Wow, Bruce!
Do you just parade around in your SS uniform at home, and practice your salutes in front of the mirror or do you get together with likeminded critters for cosplay?
It sounds like you’re itching to be able to wear it out in public without fear!

TonyG
Reply to  Abolition Man
April 7, 2021 10:28 am

Bruce is an absolutist with no concept of nuance or degree. If you don’t fully and enthusiastically embrace the vaccine, if you have even the slightest hesitance, you’re an anti-vaxxer.

He is also very big on personal attacks while avoiding rational discussion.

Abolition Man
Reply to  TonyG
April 7, 2021 1:14 pm

Sounds like your average climastrologist! Oh, well!

dodgy geezer
April 6, 2021 2:57 pm

This is what it is like after 20 years of lies from the climate lobby.

Now, no one trusts anyone or anything…

SMC
Reply to  dodgy geezer
April 6, 2021 3:15 pm

It’s not just the lies of the climate lobby that has caused a breakdown in trust.

Rud Istvan
April 6, 2021 3:05 pm

There is a lot of vaccination noise and confusion out on the interwebs. Some facts:

For all four UK approved vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica, and Janssen J&J) there were massive double blind placebo controlled multicountry trials. I have been following Janssen closely, since think the best—one shot only, zero hospitalizations, normal refrigerated storage, proven platform (already used for a ‘no egg’ flu vaccine, an Ebola vaccine, a Zika vaccine, so much more ‘mileage’ than the other three). Original Janssen trial design was 60k, 30k each arm. Because of the Covid-19 global uptick, they cut back to 40k to get the same efficacy statistics—about 65-70% no symptoms (depending on country/variants), ~85% only mild symptoms, zero hospitalizations. Massive and very good

The EUA ‘still experimental’ versus FDA approved is a red herring. There are more FDA boxes to check than for EUA by law, but most of the differences are immaterial to this pandemic situation (things like length of required followup, amount of supporting other clinical documentation).

It is true that Moderna and Pfizer are the very first mRNA vaccines. And it is true that the necessary lipid nanoencapsulation is inducing some anaphlylactic shock, normally readily treated with an Epipen, mandatorily on hand at all vaccination sites.

It is also true that the second mRNA dose seems to kick butt for a couple of days in a lot of people who have taken them. Incapacitated for weeks, no.

Mandatory for health care givers and first responders? Probably not, even in UK. A bridge too far. Don’t take it, maybe suffer the consequences. Gonna be a big international issue tho.

Scissor
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 6, 2021 4:43 pm

Death is a permanent incapacitation. It may be very very rare, but it is happening.

However, it seems that if someone dies from CV within 30 days of a positive test, then that’s registered as a Covid death, but if a 32 old dies of a heart attack 24 hours after a CV vaccine, well that’s a coincidence.

StevenF
Reply to  Scissor
April 6, 2021 9:19 pm

Agree with the COVID death 30 days comment but your comment about the 32 year old flies in the face of the actual data. I don’t know of any 32 year old death. Or any death at a relatively young age that was not the direct cause of something not related to the vaccine. If you know of one, let me know and I’ll look up the data about it. This applies to the mRNA vaccines.

There seems to be an issue with AstraZenaca.

Scissor
Reply to  StevenF
April 7, 2021 4:55 am

CV deaths are registered whether an underlying condition contributed or not. To be consistent, CV vaccine deaths should be recorded similarly. In any case, the following apparently concerns a 32 year old that died within 24 hours after vaccination.

https://thecovidblog.com/2021/03/21/benjamin-goodman-32-year-old-new-york-stagehand-dead-24-hours-after-johnson-johnson-viral-vector-shot/

M Courtney
Reply to  Scissor
April 7, 2021 12:23 am

In the UK we currently have a record low death rate. This is because the flu season was cancelled due to Covid lockdowns.
But if half the adult population had been injected with something deadly – there is no way that the death rate would be so low.
And death is a very clear symptom. It’s never confused with the common cold.

Timo, not that one
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 6:51 am

“This is because the flu season was cancelled due to Covid lockdowns.” Flu season was “cancelled”? Was that an act of Parliament?

Richard
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 9:15 am

Flu and covid deaths were roles into one. Can’t think why!

M Courtney
Reply to  Richard
April 7, 2021 12:50 pm

Possibly true.
But the death rate is currently very low.
Proof that the vaccine is not the danger it is feared to be by the ignorant.

Richard
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2021 2:55 am

I’m not not sure what the point of the vaccine is. The NHS in the UK state ” there is no cure for covid ” and there is no claim of immunisation against covid in the guide either. Me thinks Snake oil for the gullible.

paul courtney
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2021 12:53 pm

Mr. Courtney: My ignorance falls short of fearing death by vax, but doesn’t the low death rate cut both (if not several different) ways? People aren’t dying of vax, nor are the unvaccinated dying of covid. Or the flu, which you brush off too easily for my thinking. By my math, catching covid is barely more lethal than the vax for my grouping, and my chances of needing med. services if I catch it are still less than 1%.
All that weighs about even. What tips my scale is the extraordinary promotion of the vaccine, while treatment is kicked to the curb. The literal disappearance of the flu is cause for skepticism for me.

goracle
Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2021 5:16 am

flu season canceled in UK? soooo, lockdowns and mandatory face diapers work to stop the flu but are useless against covid? Lockdowns may have a temporary effect…. until you open up again. Non N95 face diapers don’t work. It could be that less contact and better hygiene works for the flu but not covid, but I’m still waiting for the science on that. Anyone with links to studies that have investigated this, please share so we can all learn. Until then, I call BS on flu season being cancelled and will go with the likely causes being people nit seeking medical care for their flu and also the mad dash to classify any flu-like symptoms as covid. I could be wrong in this… need links to studies.

David A
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 6, 2021 9:26 pm

What percentage of everbody who gets Cov19 is mildly symptomatic, or non symptomatic?
( It is reasonably estimated that 25 to 30 plus percent of the population of India has been exposed. This would mean that Cov19 ( the disease itself) is about 75 percent plus effective if it was a vaccine.

Ruds comment did not address areas the trials were weak, or possible long term harms.

Mr. Lee
April 6, 2021 3:13 pm

Because nothing says “free country” like forcing people to choose between injecting foreign substances into their bodies or becoming social pariahs.

The only thing leftists are worthy of is contempt. Shows you how intellectually dishonest the whole “My body, my choice” mantra was.

goracle
Reply to  Mr. Lee
April 8, 2021 6:20 am

whatever a leftist claims, the truth is likely the opposite… for example:
– men can have babies
– men can have periods
– crushing debt is a sign of strength (with few exceptions, both sides guilty)
– life in the womb is not life
– Tesla cars are emissions free (sure, at the “tailpipe” maybe)
– masks work

Mr. Lee
April 6, 2021 3:32 pm

If you are worried about the disease, get vaccinated, if not, then don’t. How hard is that? What is so difficult about letting people decide for themselves?
It takes a supremacist mentality to think it acceptable to pressure a stranger into receiving an injection of a relatively new serum.

Reply to  Mr. Lee
April 6, 2021 7:08 pm

Well, in order to get herd immunity, you have to herd the herd…move’em in…move’em out – Rawhide!

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Mr. Lee
April 6, 2021 7:56 pm

Personal choice is everything. But to make informed personal choices, we still need to listen to the experts. A useful interview at the “Medcram” website. He knows what he is talking about.

Mr. Lee
Reply to  Bill Parsons
April 6, 2021 8:17 pm

I don’t need to listen to the experts. I have an advanced degree. I don’t require an priest of science to understand the issues. I can read the research myself.

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Bill Parsons
April 6, 2021 10:17 pm

The young woman in the opening post should have the right to refuse to take a vaccine for her own safety. And as a recovered Covid-19 patient, she likely poses little risk to her patients. My understanding is that people who have achieved immunity (either through vaccines or from the virus itself) are less likely to be infectious.

But Dr. Crotty’s research shows that vaccines confer a much stronger immune response than just catching / recovering from it. These seem to be consensus views and would support the idea that people should get the vaccine. Why is this important?

Of particular concern in several countries are the new variants which appear to be far more infectious and therefor more dangerous. Virologists have found that the Brazil, S. African and U.K. variants cause higher concentrations of virus in people’s upper respiratory passages than the “old” Covid. Jury is out on whether they are more deadly to individuals, but all three are here (in the U.S) and the fact that they can cover more ground faster makes them more of a threat. Crotty says that the immunity conferred by the Astra Zeneca vaccine is inadequate to ward off the S African variant, but that the other vaccines do give that immunity, especially if both shots are received, or even a single shot in conjunction with natural immunity after disease recovery. They know this from the arm of the placebo tests done there, as well as from lab studies and from patient recovery data.

The good news is that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines seem to work quite well against these new variants. U.S. hospitalizations, which were down anyway, show no hint of a fourth wave. Even if there’s a natural waning of the virus prevalence here, I’m glad people are getting the vaccines. They appear to be a safe bet and a darn good idea.

David A
Reply to  Bill Parsons
April 7, 2021 5:42 am

Regarding the South African variant, read the Zimbabwe post and video above. Ivermectin was every bit as effective as the vaccine, with zero long term potential consequences.

A study was done on SARS Cov people 17 years after infection. They still had adequet T cell counts to fight off infection against not only SARS, but likely against CIV 19.

It is extremely unlikely the mRNA hand will do that.

icisil
April 6, 2021 3:48 pm

Why would anyone want an experimental gene therapy injection when early treatment with ivermectin has been shown to be so effective against all stages of covid? There are probably more positive ivermectin RCTs that any other treatment/prophylaxis except for maybe vitamin D.

Reply to  icisil
April 6, 2021 7:17 pm

I dunno, I have spent some time on researching Ivermectin and Vitamin D…I take a 5000IU Vitamin D but plan to stop when the tabs are used up…I take a big dose of Vitamin C and zinc……I would take Ivermectin if it was readily available but I don’t think it’s a miracle drug. I never took any flu vaccine and never had the flu, but I am a lot older now and maybe will take a vaccine.

Last edited 15 days ago by Anti-griff
Pat Frank
April 6, 2021 3:48 pm

When did medical experimentation on humans traverse from a crime against humanity to a social good?

A rhetorical question with an obvious answer: when progressives came to power.

Patrick MJD
April 6, 2021 3:53 pm

On another forum, I was in discussion with someone about these vaccines and here is what they said, it is a bit of a ramble but is pretty much in-line with other reports/comments I have read over the last year or so;

“Here we go:-> fact: One dose Vaccine (0.5 ml) contains: – (ChAdOx1-S* recombinant) 5 × 1010 viral particles * recombinant, – replication-deficient chimpanzee(!) adenovirus vector encoding the SARS-CoV-2 Spike glycoprotein. Produced in genetically modified human embryonic kidney (HEK) 293 cells. This product contains genetically modified organisms (GMOs). Other excipients are: a) L-histidine, L-histidine hydrochloride monohydrate, b) magnesium chloride c) hexahydrate d) polysorbate 80 e) ethanol f) sucrose (sugar!) g) sodium chloride (salt!) h) disodium edetate dihydrate i) water for injections j) polyehtylene-glycol (that stuff you find e.g. in your car as anti-freezer) – dangerous stuff (C2nH4n+2On+1) also known as polyethylene oxide. These lipidnanoparticle-assisted modified Luc mRNAs ( = nucleotide structure used is -> N1-methyl-3-pseudoridine….! ) injected in your body are less than 100nanometre big, means they are very small (it contains those “radicals” with high ionisations /aggressive) hence also more effective to react/interact with the microsystems of your cells which can cause havoc..!! To break it down for non-scientists: This stuff above not only attacks human body cells to decode or better in this case encode new stuff in your body cell (by intercepting your ribosomes in your cell). Through the penetration of this mRNA molecule embedded in a fatty lipid bubble (by the way this “fatty” lipid bubble consists of cholesterine), thus your own immune system is triggered to believe and in fact produces those encoded spike proteins for that to fight against it(!) In other words develop your own auto-immune-desease, ultimately starts destroying this your own cells ( e.g. ignition of our fighter T-lymphocytes, in this case the Cytotoxic T-cells releasing destructive molecules to destroy the host cell….) But there is more than that…..! As a scientist can’t go deeper now as it would be too complicate and too long, but bottomline: This has never been tested before on humans (except on some mice/rats with horrible detrimental effects) nor did this so-called “vaccine” undergo the trial period of at least 5-7 years (including all control protocols) before it can be given to humans (nothing but an experimental gene-therapy with so much harmful stuff in it). Good luck !!”

My sister, under pressure, took the first dose of AstraZeneca and had a very severe reaction t it. She has decided not to take the second dose. I stand by my position that the world is being used as lab rats with these experimental vaccines.

Scissor
Reply to  Patrick MJD
April 6, 2021 5:51 pm

Good decision. “AstraZeneca Trial Involving Minors Halted As EMA Officials Admit Link Between Jab And Deadly Blood Clots”
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/astrazeneca-trial-involving-minors-halted-ema-officials-admit-link-between-jab-and-deadly

Andy Espersen
April 6, 2021 3:57 pm

It is news to me that after effects from the vaccine are so widespread and common. If so, why is it not reported anywhere else in the world. If she is is quoted in the British Medical Journal there must be some truth to her statements, I suppose.

Reply to  Andy Espersen
April 6, 2021 4:06 pm

If so, why is it not reported anywhere else in the world.

You really ask that question ? If these infos were wide spead, they can stop their vaccination campaign, because of absence of laboratory “mices”.

icisil
Reply to  Andy Espersen
April 6, 2021 4:50 pm

There have been as many or more adverse reactions reported to VAERS in the first 3 months of 2021 than there were for all vaccines combined for the last 10 years.

Scissor
Reply to  icisil
April 6, 2021 5:19 pm

I’ve heard that also. The rate of vaccination now is probably unprecedented. So, it’s potentially concerning, but it’s difficult to conclude much without being able to compare the relevant total numbers.

icisil
Reply to  Scissor
April 6, 2021 5:36 pm

Excuse me. I forgot to mention one teenie weenie detail that all of those adverse reactions had in common. Death. lol silly me.

Scissor
Reply to  icisil
April 7, 2021 4:57 am

So you’re saying they were incapacitated.

Fran
Reply to  Andy Espersen
April 7, 2021 9:57 am

Consider the money involved. AZ at cost $4-5. Others all $15-20. Comes out to >$10 profit per vaccine administered. Money buys data corruption. I wonder if the ‘bad’ reports about AZ are funded by the other companies.

High Treason
April 6, 2021 4:32 pm

The vaccine does NOT prevent the recipient from spreading the virus! It does not even stop them getting it, although it is said to reduce the severity. One can theoretically take Ivermectin/zinc/Vitamin D and Vitamin C early, except that certain people are banning it.

What sort of TYRANT bans the use of safe, effective, inexpensive medical treatment?? Wouldn’t that be classified as a crime against humanity??

A scenario that we must consider- if doctors and other frontline medical staff start succumbing to adverse long term effects of the vaccine (along with vaccine recipients) , the entire medical system collapses almost immediately. Patients will not have medical personnel to care for them. The doctors and nurses will also have no one to care for them either. Remember, the vaccine is untested and experimental, so we do NOT know if there will be long term consequences.

I am in the health care industry myself- no way I am taking this untested experimental vaccine. For a start, attempts to force it on people without full informed consent violates the Nuremberg code. Confiscation of basic human rights to coerce people in to becoming guinea pigs without informed consent is tyranny of the highest order.

The short answer is NO. Doctors should not be forced to take the vaccination for a disease that is so deadly that you need to be tested (with a test that can’t actually detect it) to see if you ever had it. A disease that kills so many that hospitals have to be bribed ($US 37,000) to classify deaths as being of COVID. A disease so deadly that it kills only around 1 in 300,000 non comorbid people under 60 years of age (without therapeutics-otherwise the chance of death is more like one in 2 million.) A disease that kills as many as a bad dose of seasonal flu. A disease so deadly that oldies in nursing homes have to be effectively isolated in veritable prison without any visitation rights, worse than a mass murderer. A disease so deadly that basic human rights must be confiscated.

The entire COVID scamdemic is even more absurd than catastrophic anthropogenic global warming being caused by the 3% of atmospheric CO2 increase that is of human origin. To quote Voltaire-“Those that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”

Scissor
Reply to  High Treason
April 6, 2021 5:22 pm

Some good points. I wonder how many vaccination deaths there would be if hospitals were to receive $37,000 for each vaccination death recorded.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  High Treason
April 6, 2021 5:47 pm

Moron.

John Dilks
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 6, 2021 7:25 pm

Idiot

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  John Dilks
April 7, 2021 4:24 am

hole

Tom Abbott
Reply to  High Treason
April 6, 2021 8:10 pm

“What sort of TYRANT bans the use of safe, effective, inexpensive medical treatment [therapeutics]?? Wouldn’t that be classified as a crime against humanity??”

In this case the Leftist Washington DC Swamp is banning therapeutics because early treatment with therapeutics is tied to Trump, and they would rather d!e than do anything that would make Trump look good in any way.

As far as I know, Trump’s “Right to Try” law is still in effect, and according to that law, a person can use any drug their doctor will authorize if the doctor thinks it will help the patient. Even experimental treatments are included in this law. As far as I know, noone has used this law as a means to treat the Wuhan virus. But it’s there to be used.

I do believe Ivermectin is now authorized by the NIH. A doctor can use it now without getting in trouble from the higher-ups.

High Treason
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 6, 2021 9:56 pm

In Australia, doctors are threatened with deregistration and 6 months in jail for prescribing HCQ in Victoria and Queensland. These 2 states are controlled by very left wing Premiers.
In Victoria, Daniel Andrews has the nickname “Dictator Dan.” Why any voter still votes for them is beyond belief. Same for Queensland, but they do use the Dominion election system….

Abolition Man
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 7, 2021 1:27 pm

Tom,
Like many skeptics, I wouldn’t be upset if others chose to not use therapeutics; but it pisses me off greatly that people in positions of power decided that they would rather KILL people than allow the use of ivermectin and HCQ!
The studies are almost unanimous; ivermectin reduces fatalities by ~90%, HCQ by about 75-80% when used PROPERLY! That means that at least 200,000 to 300,000 Americans died because of political considerations being given more weight than medical! That is MASS MURDER! Something I have never seen in the US!

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Abolition Man
April 7, 2021 7:41 pm

I look at it just about the way you do.

It’s a scandal perpetrated by the some of the top doctors in the United States, goaded by leftwing politicians, and done for political reasons, not medical reasons.

Reply to  High Treason
April 7, 2021 1:46 am

Good to see that some people still have their head screwed on. There are NO sound ethical, medical or public health reasons for mass vaccination with THESE ‘vaccines. There are very serious objections to coerced mass Covid vaccination on the grounds of medical, ethical, political and societal considerations. Very few people are joining all the dots and considering the huge implications of their choice to be coerced into receiving an experimental ‘vaccine’ with unknown long term consequences which is not proven to prevent transmission and which they almost certainly do NOT need if they are reasonably healthy and under the age of 65.

Peta of Newark
April 6, 2021 4:40 pm

Bit of an oldie (28th Feb) – from the Grauniad
Quote:””A fifth of healthcare workers in England have still not received first Covid jab“”

Otherwise search for any combination of these words:
“200,000 + NHS + staff + refuse + Covid + vaccine”

Anecdotal.
1) The 20 something year old daughter of my next door neighbour works in a Care Home and was offered a vaccination.
When she was invited to sign away virtually all of her rights along the chance of any compensation should ‘anything go wrong’ with said vaccination, she said “no”

2) They came chasing after me for a vaccination, me being in a “high risk group” via my Ab-fib and stroke history.
I recounted the tale of my first and only flu vaccination, circa 12 years ago.
I felt like death warmed up for nigh on 10 days.
I have never known anything so awful in my entire life, before or since.

I suggested to the caller that I’d like to wait until there’s some nicer weather in case anything similar happens with this
Farming types will certainly know the saying: “Spring’s in doubt until the may is out”
‘may’ being the flower of the hawthorn tree – The Mayflower being a very famous little ship yes/no

I thought I’d be given a bit of a bollocking for being such a superstitious old fart but no, in fact I was amazed at how gushingly agreeable and understanding she was.
She was telling me something loud and clear without saying anything – you know what I mean…

Otherwise what I see is what a lot of folks here see, a truly epic experiment that can only really possibly ‘go wrong’
For some reason I keep minding myself of Thalidomide.
no no no

And in fact, with UK Government’s track record on everything they’ve ever done since Mrs Thatcher, if nothing goes wrong here, then “I’m the King of England

Last edited 15 days ago by Peta of Newark
Reply to  Peta of Newark
April 9, 2021 11:43 am

re: “For some reason I keep minding myself of Thalidomide.”

Issuing a Nota Bene on that point:

“The Thalidomide Tragedy: Lessons for Drug Safety and Regulation”
https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/thalidomide-tragedy-lessons-drug-safety-and-regulation

Despite its harmful side effects, thalidomide is FDA-approved for two uses today—the treatment of inflammation associated with Hansen’s disease (leprosy) and as a chemotherapeutic agent for patients with multiple myeloma, purposes for which it was originally prescribed off-label. Because of its known adverse effects on fetal development, the dispensing of thalidomide is regulated by the System for Thalidomide Education and Prescribing Safety (S.T.E.P.S.) program.

Craig from Oz
April 6, 2021 4:50 pm

In fact, it is clearly stated that these vaccine products do not offer immunity or stop transmission

See? NOT a cure. They are a Risk Reduction. Being vaccinated reduces the risk of catching the China Virus.

So, the big question you need to be asking yourself is does having the chance of catching the China Virus reduced by 60% (which is the number I have been hearing) and by extension reducing the risk of all the China Virus related complications outweigh the chance of having adverse reactions to the vaccine that may force you into hospital?

Is called a Risk Assessment. In the real world risks should be reduced So Far As Is Reasonably Practical. Your Country May Vary, but that is the legal cornerstone in my part of the world and if/when you get dragged into court you will have to prove you did reduce all risks So Far As Is Reasonably Practical.

Yes it is subjective, but it also exists.

Vaccination isn’t a final statement. It is a question.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Craig from Oz
April 6, 2021 8:29 pm

“So, the big question you need to be asking yourself is does having the chance of catching the China Virus reduced by 60% (which is the number I have been hearing) and by extension reducing the risk of all the China Virus related complications outweigh the chance of having adverse reactions to the vaccine that may force you into hospital?”

As far as I’m concerned, the Wuhan virus presents much more of a danger to my life than does the vaccination.

It’s pretty much pure speculation about the after-effects of the vaccinations. The after-effects of the Wuhan virus are there for all to see, and we are going to be seeing and hearing a lot more about these after-effects as time goes by. We are talking about millions of people who are suffering from after-effects of the Wuhan virus.

I don’t want the after-effects of a serious infection by the Wuhan virus, which could affect multiple organs of the body. Now that I have the vaccine, my immune system will have a head-start on the Wuhan virus if I get infected, and I presume the infection will be light and won’t last as long as it would if I were not vaccinated, so hopefully, that would limit any serious after-effects. Remember, the trick seems to be to get that virus out of your body as soon as possible to limit the damage it can do.

If I were to become infected with the Wuhan virus now, after being vaccinated, I would still take Ivermectin and hydroxycholriquine as soon as I realized I was infected. Just as a little bit more insurance.

People can get Ivermectin and hydroxychloriquine by going to the website myfreedoctor.com and filling out a questionaire and if you answer the questions properly, the doctor there will write you a perscription and will send that perscription to the pharmacy you designate, and you will get the perscription filled at your pharmacy so there is no danger of being given counterfeit pills and you pay whatever the pharmacy charges, no exorbitant charges involved.

I got one of these perscriptions and have it sitting in the medicine cabinet, and the cost was about $50.

The website asks for a donation, but you can put $0.00 in the amount, and they will go ahead and process your order. The service is worth a donation of some kind, but not required. I’m sure they are not going to get rich doing this.

Cheap insurance.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 7, 2021 2:18 am

“Tom Abbott

Cheap insurance.”

Pays ya money, takes ya chance. Cheap “insurance”? Don’t buy it!

icisil
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 7, 2021 5:14 am

Nothing’s free. Looks like they’re fishing for phone #s because that looks to be the only way you can participate. They probably sell their phone database to interested parties.

Reply to  icisil
April 9, 2021 11:34 am

re: “They probably sell their phone database to interested parties.”

Do iPhones have phone number “admit” (answer) lists? If so, we’re in a new era when it comes to this sort of thing …

pochas94
April 6, 2021 5:45 pm

I had the 2 Moderna shots a month apart.
First shot sore arm, that was it.
Second shot sore arm, nothing further.

Just my opinion, but I suspect serious malingering in both test reporting and post vaccination “issues.” Seems to be part of the culture nowadays.

Joel O'Bryan
April 6, 2021 6:02 pm

We have long “mandated” vaccinations for many things, especially where international travel is concerned. No one should get the knickers in a twist over this.

Yellow Fever vax for travel to certain international destinations in Africa has long been a requirement. The SmallPox vaccine was/is a live vaccinia virus closely related to VarriolaMajor that I got as a child.
School children getting polio and MMR vaccines have been required for a long time in the US.
A few decades ago, as an new reseracher-employee at UMassMedical School, they required me to get an MMR and HepB vaccines along with annual Inluenza vaccines.

Although my military time is a far different context than those of civilian freedoms, I had to get the Flu vaccine every year in 24 years in military, along with the Anthrax vaccine (very controversial at the time) and a myriad of others like HepA, pneumococcal, meningococcal, Japanese Encephalitis virus vaccine, and a few others I’ve forgotten.

Those docs should roll up their sleeves and shut up if they want to continue in a clinical profession. No one is forcing them to be clinician, and a COVID vaccine is part of that regime now to practice clinical medicine.

niceguy
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
April 6, 2021 6:23 pm

We have long “mandated” vaccinations for many things, especially where international travel is concerned”

Yes, you have long supported medical fascism and except everybody to be as braindead as you were.

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  niceguy
April 6, 2021 7:30 pm

NG,
Welcome to the irrational anti-vaxxers club, a club chaired by Nutter-in-Chief Naomi Oreskes.

niceguy
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
April 7, 2021 3:07 am

Who cares about Naomi?

Reply to  niceguy
April 7, 2021 8:14 am

The lady not able to google correctly 😀

Mr. Lee
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
April 6, 2021 8:44 pm

You conveniently overlook the salient fact that these vaccines are very new. You can’t tell me that they aren’t still collecting information on possible contraindicators, etc.

Steve Richards
Reply to  Mr. Lee
April 7, 2021 12:54 am

Mr Lee, look up the UK yellow card system. All of the drugs legal in the UK are subject to it. Even if you take aspirin and you believe you have an adverse reaction to to it, file a virtual yellow card.
It’s been this way for many years.
Covid vaccines are closely monitored for apparent adverse effects.
Look it it up. It’s all there. Nothing is hidden.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Steve Richards
April 7, 2021 1:13 am

In all my life in the UK (Up to 1994) I never heard of this “yellow card system”. Never! AstraZeneca is going to be banned, after release!

Reply to  Patrick MJD
April 7, 2021 8:11 am
Last edited 15 days ago by Krishna Gans
Patrick MJD
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
April 6, 2021 9:35 pm

There is a difference. The vaccines you talk of went through the typical 5+ year trials and have been in long use. Proven track record. I was advised, NOT *forced*, to have vaccines when I went to Africa. See the difference? Now, in the UK, you need a PCR test BEFORE entering a public venue AND one AFTER. 1 billion PCR tests have just been ordered in the UK at a cost of GBP2.8 billion, ironically being paid to a Chinese billionaire.

Last edited 15 days ago by Patrick MJD
High Treason
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
April 6, 2021 10:07 pm

It is a bit of an ask to expect a doctor to throw away all those years of study to be a doctor because they do not want to take the risk on an untested, experimental vaccine for which there is no legal redress.
Even the UN in their 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights acknowledges that everyone has the right to derive an income. That doctor you seem so casually who should throw away their training will have to go sans income for years to retrain as something else because YOU think it reasonable they submit to being a lab rat.
As for forced vaccinations for military, it is actually a massive scandal that they were used as guinea pigs. What if the vaccine caused mass problems with the military? Suddenly, your entire military could be compromised. You are not going to just click your fingers and have a new military force trained. Same thing applies to the doctors.

icisil
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
April 7, 2021 6:35 am

Not even the US military can legally force their members to take these injections because they are not approved as vaccines. They are EUA only. I have read that 40-50% of military members are refusing to be injected with this experimental gene therapy. Companies are opening themselves up to class action lawsuits if they force their employees to get injected as a condition for work.

Stevek
April 6, 2021 6:11 pm

I think likely the vaccine causes very little harm, but there still could be some long term effects we are unaware of. I’m hesitant to force people to get an injection against their will though. Government always takes one freedom away, then another, then another until one day you wake up and realize you aren’t really free anymore.

niceguy
April 6, 2021 6:21 pm

“getting very sick and some with neurological symptoms which is having a huge impact on the health service function”

You mean, as with the hep B vaccine all you guys said was fine and safe?

Polski
April 6, 2021 6:40 pm

I have a number of healthy fit friends who also read the information available from many sources. None of them are getting the vaccine. I also have a number of friends who have comorbidities such as obesity, hypertension, diabetes, live a sedentary life and have no idea about vitamin D levels. Most have received the vaccines or are signing up for the jap.

Dr. Eric Osgood part of the FLCCC doctor group posted this today on Twitter re. ivermectin.

And of course, the serious adverse events attributed to it on VigiAccess are less than 5,000 out of 3 billion, doses since 1992.”

Ivermectin is very cheap, very safe and very effective. It is far safer than aspirin which may kill up to 3,000 people a year.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/daily-aspirin-behind-3000-deaths-year-study-suggests/#:~:text=Taking%20a%20daily%20aspirin,attacks%20and%20strokes%2C%20researchers%20said.

Doctors using ivermectin are hoping that vaccines are effective and safe and want to use ivermectin to help with the disease right now. Many doctors are giving it for long Covid with excellent results.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Polski
April 8, 2021 5:04 am

“Many doctors are giving it for long Covid with excellent results.”

That’s interesting. I had not heard that.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 9, 2021 11:29 am

“Database of all ivermectin COVID-19 studies. 85 studies, 45 peer reviewed, 49 with results comparing treatment and control groups.”

https://c19ivermectin.com/

TRM
April 6, 2021 7:18 pm

How about giving them something that actually works, has two dozen RCT’s showing spectacular results? Ivermectin anyone? Or something vastly less effective, vastly less safe and vastly more expensive?

Infection Rates – Pooled Results
The overall infection rate in health care workers recruited for this study was 20% with 237 testing positive for CoVid 19 during the 3 month study recruitment. Of those infected, all patients were from the comparator group of using PPE alone. This represented an overall infection rate of 58.2% ( 237 of 407) in the PPE group.

No patients of the 788 treated with IVERCAR tested
positive for CoVid 19 during the study.

Journal of Biomedical Research and Clinical Investigation
ISSN:2633-8653
Study of the Efficacy and Safety of Topical Ivermectin + Iota-Carrageenan in the Prophylaxis against COVID-19 in Health Personnel
Carvallo Héctor1, Hirsch Roberto2*, Alkis Psaltis3, Contreras Veronica4

Juan
April 6, 2021 8:28 pm

So two people I knew have died from the jab. Four others are seriously maimed. No way am I getting near this carnage

Alex
Reply to  Juan
April 6, 2021 10:06 pm

Which jab?

Adam Gallon
Reply to  Juan
April 6, 2021 11:52 pm

Bollocks

Alex
April 6, 2021 11:39 pm

Criticizing vaccines is extremely dangerous.
Any negative information is strictly purged from the internet.
People, who try posting about adverse reactions get banned forever from any internet site.
Their accounts are banned, their contacts black listed.
The only platform that might still tolerate them is telegram.

Reply to  Alex
April 7, 2021 8:32 pm

re: “The only platform that might still tolerate them is telegram.”

???

Have you ever been to user-supported FreeRepublic.com? They are beholden to no one, as they are supported by user/poster contributions, and fundraising occurs four times a year and runs until that quarter’s funding needs are met.

Last edited 14 days ago by _Jim
Tom Abbott
Reply to  _Jim
April 8, 2021 5:09 am

Maybe that’s something WUWT should consider doing.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Alex
April 8, 2021 5:08 am

“Criticizing vaccines is extremely dangerous.
Any negative information is strictly purged from the internet.
People, who try posting about adverse reactions get banned forever from any internet site.”

With at least one exception: WUWT.

griff
April 7, 2021 12:33 am

Yes.

I believe some or all of them are already contractually obliged to have Hepatitis protection…

Patrick MJD
Reply to  griff
April 7, 2021 2:15 am

You “believe”, you don’t know? But you “know” CO2 is causing climate change.

M Courtney
Reply to  mwhite
April 7, 2021 2:19 am

That’s the same woman as in the original article.

The logic of ‘X says this’ and as supporting evidence ‘X says this’ is the kind of anti-science stuff WUWT used to oppose.

David A
Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 6:01 am

The linked article says.

The SPR group has recently noted that data from from vaccine adverse event reporting systems in the US, EU and UK indicate Covid vaccinations have already been associated with about 5,000 deaths, and several thousand non-trivial events including anaphylactic shock, temporary facial paralysis, cardiovascular disorders and miscarriages. The figures may be an underestimate, because vaccine reporting systems typically cover only a fraction of adverse events. 
As fact-checking sites are constantly reminding us, association does not mean causation. Some of the events may be coincidental, and unrelated to the vaccination. However, the circumstances are often such as to make it reasonable to infer a cause-and-effect relationship, which is why doctors and others have taken the trouble to report them.  
In the US, 47 per cent of the deaths occurred in people who became ill within 48 hours of being vaccinated, and 31 per cent within 48 hours of the vaccination itself. The average age was 78, and the youngest case was aged 23.  In addition, the group says, in the US and Europe combined, several hundred cases of blindness, deafness, and spontaneous abortion have been reported shortly after Covid vaccinations.   
Compared with the hundreds of millions of shots administered, and also the Covid death toll, the numbers are small. SPR says: ‘But compared to the standards for safe medical products, these numbers are certainly significant. Moreover, little is known about the long-term safety profile of Covid vaccines.’
SPR also notes that Israel, which like Gibraltar has boasted record levels of vaccination with the Pfizer jab, is reporting an unexplained rise in deaths from all causes. By early March, about 90 per cent of Israel’s population aged 65-plus, and about half of its entire population, had been inoculated. Covid deaths started falling from the end of January, although not any faster than in some countries with a very low vaccination rate. 
But since mid-February, deaths from all causes have been rising. That contrasts with many European countries (including the UK) where fewer deaths than normal for the time of year are being reported, following the winter increase caused by the coronavirus. 
‘The cause behind this renewed increase in Israeli all-cause mortality appears to be unclear,’ the group says. ‘According to Israeli newspaper YNet, the director of an Israeli clinic explained that they are currently seeing “a murky wave of heart attacks”. The director believes that this might be due to the “persistent stressful situation” and the “neglect of preventive medical care”.
‘Although quite a few cases of post-vaccination heart muscle inflammation, heart failure and heart attacks have been reported in Israel since December, the hospital director argues that “a connection to heart damage from it has not yet been proven to be significant”.
‘Nevertheless, given the paramount global importance of this question, Israeli and international public health authorities may want to answer it as fast as possible.’
SPR, founded in 2016, describes itself as a nonpartisan and nonprofit research group, composed of independent academics, investigating geopolitical propaganda. It has no external funding, other than reader donations. 
A London doctor’s complaint in the British Medical Journal last week of ‘unprecedented’ levels of sickness among health service staff who have had the jab further strengthens the possibility that the vaccine is causing damage of the same type it is designed to prevent. ”

What do you disagree with, and why? 5 k deaths is not many for the global number that have had a jab.

Do you acknowledge potential long term harms from the vaccine?
Do you acknowledge the very low risk most of the population has?
Do you dispute the meta analysis that have been posted about the effectiveness of Ivermectin and HCQ correctly administered with zinc?

M Courtney
Reply to  David A
April 7, 2021 12:58 pm

Do you acknowledge potential long term harms from the vaccine?
Well, anything is possible. No evidence for it, of course. Just application of the pseudoscience known as the Precautionary Principle. Unlike the potential long term harms from catching Covid which evidentially exists.

Do you acknowledge the very low risk most of the population has?
Yes. The vaccine has a very low risk. The virus is a high risk for long-term harm for all ages. Only the very elderly or those with underlying conditions need fear death though.

Do you dispute the meta analysis that have been posted about the effectiveness of Ivermectin and HCQ correctly administered with zinc?
I have no idea. I recognise that many studies have been tried. And that all the regulatory authorities have decided that there’s no common benefit to them
But there are so many stabs in the dark at a magic bullet. How can I know if the regulators have missed one that actually worked?

Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 1:42 pm

How can I know if the regulators have missed one that actually worked?

One ? 😀

Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 3:13 pm

4th question: What sources do you use to stay informed?

M Courtney
Reply to  _Jim
April 8, 2021 5:02 am

A wide range of sources.
I’m a lefty who is a regular here. Do you really think I’m the one in the bubble?

Reply to  M Courtney
April 8, 2021 1:05 pm

Non-response to the question. I think you have the blinders on, hard and fast. NOTHING will remove them, because, the whole of your being is tied up with pre-determined ‘facts’ your mind could not stand to see countered. I think it’s really JUST that simple. Generally, this is the result of character faults, diminished intellectual capacity (illiterate, innumerate), the very essence of the technical definition of idiocy. You may be a savant in some areas of life, but in this particular area you are sorely lacking and ill-prepared.

I could repeat your argument, word for word, cite the math, repeat the statistics, plot ‘case’ and fatality numbers and cite the risks until the cows come home, BUT I see NO capacity in you where you could repeat *my* argument the same way and in depth. You are THAT damn blind.

Reply to  M Courtney
April 7, 2021 8:08 am

That’s the same woman as in the original article.

Only at the end
All written before you didn’t read or didn’t understand

mwhite
April 7, 2021 1:20 am
Eric Vieira
April 7, 2021 3:31 am

There’s something very suspicious that happened in the EU: Israel was removed from the EUROMOMO (MOrtality MOnitoring) list. Apparently due to an unexpected increase of mortality of the vaccinated elderly population.(See: https://tkp.at/2021/04/01/israel-mortalitaet-unter-geimpften-ueber-65-steigt-neuerlich-an-update-israel-aus-euromomo-verschwunden/). It’s in german, but one can use google translator. There are quite a lot of reports out there, which mention elderly in care homes getting Covid although they’re already vaccinated.

Just the idea, that unvaccinated persons are a health risk to vaccinated people is nonsense.
Solidarity is not to be confused with a responsibility “for the health of other people.”

If we were talking about a highly contagious and dangerous virus with high mortality like Ebola it would be a different story. Everyone has the right to decide for himself, if the risk ratio vaccine/covid is acceptable or not. That doesn’t make someone an “anti-vaxxer”. Withholding and censuring information from the general public, on the other hand is completely inacceptable.

Last edited 15 days ago by Eric Vieira
Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 4:06 am

The anti-vax morons risk not only their own health, but the health of others as well. That raises the stakes significantly, to a moral issue. Being anti-vax means you are not only a moron, but a danger to society.

icisil
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 5:08 am

Vaxx cultists are beginning to remind me of Calvinist cultists who gloss over inherent contradictions in a few of their doctrines, which they declare as the word of God.

Vaxx cultists declare as immutable truth that vaccines offer immaculate protection to individuals who take them, but that protection only works when everyone takes them. Only cult-like madness can espouse such contradictory foolishness.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  icisil
April 7, 2021 5:33 am

“Vaxx cultists”?
Ba-hahahahahaha!
Project much?

icisil
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 6:11 am

It’s truly bizarre, cult-like behavior. They talk reverently about vaxxes as if they are immaculately conceived without sin, and anyone who dares to doubt or question their holiness is of the devil.

M Courtney
Reply to  icisil
April 7, 2021 1:01 pm

They talk reverently about vaxxes as if they are immaculately conceived without sin tested and studied in huge trials and monitored over millions of cases.

There is a difference between blind faith and reasoned scientific knowledge.

Timo, not that one
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 6:44 am

That response signals that you have lost the argument, due to cognitive dissonance.

Abolition Man
Reply to  icisil
April 7, 2021 9:40 am

Icisil,
Bruce is very concerned about maintaining his status as a good little Nazi; please do not besmirch he reputation or he will throw a tantrum and call you names!

David A
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 6:12 am

The denialist who have arrogantly rejected dozens of studies showing great effectiveness of Ivermectin and HCQ combined with zinc and sunshine, have killed tens of millions unnecessarily and with extreme arrogance. These treatment denialists have caused trillions of dollars in economic harm as well as tens of thousands of other deaths and suicides.

The ” because some vaccines are good, all vaccines for all time are good” crowd of yahoo’s may do untold future vaccine damage to millions who are at miniscule risk from Cov19.

Abolition Man
Reply to  David A
April 7, 2021 9:58 am

David A,
Let’s not confuse idiots like Brucie Boy with criminals like Cuomo, Whitmer and Fauxi; who are responsible for hundreds of thousands of needless fatalities! Anyone who banned or suppressed the use of therapeutics like ivermectin and HCQ use to fight the Fauxi virus is a murderer; those that blindly follow them are idiots!
What too few are talking about is the gain-of-function experiments that Fauxi paid for with US tax dollars at the lab in Wuhan! Peter Daszak, who Fauxi used as a conduit for the funds, was part of the WHO inspection team that went along with ChiComs refusal to open the Wuhan lab for inspection! You just can’t make this stuff up; and Hollywood will never buy the story because it’s too bizarre!

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Abolition Man
April 8, 2021 5:17 am

And Fauci used hydroxychloriquine against the SARS-Cov-1 virus (2003) and even wrote a paper on it.

Now, he acts like it is ineffective.

TonyG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 9, 2021 3:16 pm

Not just ineffective, but dangerous.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 6:47 am

Where is he differnce to die of COV or of vaccination ?

ozspeaksup
April 7, 2021 5:23 am

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifestyle/health/experts-warn-millions-of-aussies-may-still-get-coronavirus-even-if-they-have-been-inoculated/news-story/31f5975924ebded669f7b86f85d8f60d

Millions of Australians are still likely to contract COVID-19 even after they have been inoculated, while a vaccine for children is possibly another year away, experts have warned.
There is insufficient data showing that either the Pfizer or the AstraZeneca vaccine being distributed in Australia can partially or fully stop the transmission of the disease, says Australian Medical Association vice-president Chris Moy.
All that remained was “hoping” that vaccines being used around the world could prevent transmission of the virus, he said.

more at the linked page
============================

meanwhile an elderly woman died within 3?hrs of vaccination in qld
report in the same edition

Last edited 15 days ago by ozspeaksup
Bruce Cobb
Reply to  ozspeaksup
April 7, 2021 5:39 am

And?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  ozspeaksup
April 8, 2021 5:28 am

I think I would be less concerned about becoming infected with the Wuhan virus after getting a vaccination than I would be about how the vaccine would effect the course of the disease.

By all accounts, if you do get infected after being vaccinated, the illness will be less severe and last a shorter time than for someone who had not been vaccinated.

What I worry about with the Wuhan virus are the complications it causes in the long term after the infection has run its course. I’m hoping that the milder symptoms and shorter duration of the illness after vaccination will prevent the long-term damage.

Allowing the Wuhan virus to run its course naturally without some type of intervention early, such as a vaccine or therapeutics seems to be taking a big gamble, since even people who suffer only mild symptoms from the illness can end up having long-term adverse health effects from the Wuhan virus.

We need to cut the time the Wuhan virus spends in our bodies as short as possible by whatever means we can manage. Allowing the disease to run it course without treatment is the current standard of practice in the United States. I think this is a huge mistake.

very old white guy
April 7, 2021 5:59 am

No, no one should period. Call me when someone has a real vaccine.

eyesonu
April 7, 2021 6:22 am

With regards to vaccines, I had my first ever flu vaccine in Oct., 2019. About a week later I was not able to raise my arm (injection arm) and spent months with difficulty finding comfort to sleep. It is still an issue but is better today but still an issue. If the government mandates that I have the Covid vaccine I will consider initiating a suit against the makers of the previous inoculation. There were other documented cases of the same issue I have. Seems the nerves and tissue damage occurred at the injection site.

I hope the government doesn’t force the issue.

PaulH
April 7, 2021 6:48 am

I think the keyword here is “mandatory”. 

What happens if you refuse? Will you be fired? Or jailed as the Covid-Karens want? What happens if you want to wait a few weeks to see if the vaccination program is successful? What happens if you’re in an at-risk group for vaccination (pregnancy, etc.)? Are you required to sign a liability waiver or a non-disclosure agreement before the jab?

Those are just a few questions I would like answered if I were in that doctor’s position.

huls
April 7, 2021 6:58 am

Quote: “There is obvious pressure to accept the vaccine in the name of social responsibility”.
Please explain. If you think the offered treatment prevents you from developing symptoms, go ahead get a jab. If you feel otherwise then don’t.
Where is the obvious pressure? Remember a jab is pure selfish, it does noting for somebody else. It only affects the receiver of the jab.

Richard
April 7, 2021 8:16 am

NHS vaccine guide states “ there is no cure for covid” moreover goes on to say they do not know whether it strops you catching or passing on the virus .

Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 9:08 am

Vaccine deniers have much in common with Flat-Earthers, 9/11 Truthers, and Climate Believers.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 9:34 am

A good way is to start a certain self reflection, wouldn’t be bad at all.
And maybe you caome along with some arguments if you have.
If you look carefully trough the comments here you see where your suggested intersection set correlates with your ad hominem statement.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 7, 2021 10:45 am

There is no reasoning with vaccine deniers. They have a cult-like Belief system, and their own set of “facts”.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 11:33 am

There are people outside with real health reasons to say “no” to unproven vaccines and they are no denieres, more realists, as CC, AGW, GCC show us.

Notanacademic
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 12:32 pm

And yet you are the one insulting people instead of reasoning with them.

Abolition Man
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 7, 2021 1:41 pm

There are more than two dozen studies showing the efficacy of ivermectin. Please dazzle us with your brilliance and explain for us the fallacies in them!
If you want to try an experimental medical treatment, that isn’t actually a vaccine in the traditional sense, and is specifically protected from legal recourse if complications occur, be my guest! Just don’t try and force me!
I’ll stick with vaccines that were fully tested, and actually needed, like the tetanus booster or the polio vaccine!

Richard
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
April 8, 2021 1:39 am

Amazing how many doctors are against it . Even the ex – Vice President of Pfizer called them evil and he had worked on previous vaccines . You comments are dull witted and without fact .

Slyrik
April 7, 2021 1:24 pm

Simple… No… mandatory vaccines are not ethical or moral and cannot be justified under any circumstances!

pochas94
Reply to  Slyrik
April 7, 2021 1:31 pm

Right. Epidemics are good. We’ve got too many people around here, anyway.

Xinnie the Pooh
April 7, 2021 5:19 pm

After the DPT vaccine almost killed me I said never again and have not had a vaccine for over 30 years – also haven’t had a cold or flu for about 20 years

Richard
Reply to  Xinnie the Pooh
April 9, 2021 8:27 am

My friends teen children have never had a vaccine and never been ill- makes you wonder .

Tom Abbott
April 7, 2021 7:49 pm

I posted this before but it is pertinent to this discussion.

Those who are leery about taking a Wuhan virus vaccination may have another way out, the drug mentioned below.

https://knowridge.com/2021/03/scientists-find-a-new-covid-19-treatment-3/

“In the study, the team screened 430 drugs from among the approximately 200,000 compounds.

The scientists aimed to block the coronavirus’s ability to use cellular proteins to replicate rather than attack the virus directly because drugs that directly interfere with the virus are expected to have trouble keeping up with SARS-CoV-2’s propensity to mutate. . .

They found berzosertib consistently stalled the coronavirus’s replication without damaging cells.

The scientists also tested the drug against the coronaviruses that cause the diseases SARS and MERS, both of which triggered deadly outbreaks earlier in the 2000s.

They found that it was effective in stopping the replication of those viruses as well.

end excerpts

So if this drug works out, we may have a pill we can take whenever we get a corona virus and we won’t need a vaccine.

Hang in there, folks. Medical science is in overdrive.

Eric Vieira
April 8, 2021 1:04 am

Some other breaking news: A 22 year old woman died in Israel due to inflammation of heart muscle (myocarditis) after her second Covid vaccination. This has been observed for other cases but they managed to “save” the patients up to now. (https://www.timesofisrael.com/hospital-blamed-over-womens-death-from-heart-inflammation-after-vaccination/). This is not really a vaccination, but an “emergency” unethical authorized gene-tech experiment on human beings.

Robert Dennis
April 19, 2021 5:00 pm

The BMJ removed Dr Polyakova letter on or about April 12, replacing it with a notice that it contained “misinformation”. The notice did not specify was “misinformational”.