Claim: Europeans Don’t Care Enough about Climate Change to Act

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

h/t Mirage News; According to the author of a new study on European climate concern, “It seems there is a chance the current generation will be content to sell their great grandchildren down the river” when it comes to climate change.

Research reveals “climate-change complacency” across Europe

Most European citizens do not particularly care about climate change. That’s the striking finding from new research on the views of 70,000 randomly sampled European men and women. Only 5% described themselves as “extremely worried” about climate change. The climate and the environment ranked only fifth in people’s overall views about priorities. There was also scepticism that co-ordinated action, for example to cut personal energy use, would make much difference.

It seems there is a chance the current generation will be content to sell their great grandchildren down the river,” said Andrew Oswald, Professor of Economics and Behavioural Science at the University of Warwick, and senior author of the study – Do Europeans Care about Climate Change? An Illustration of the Importance of Data on Human Feelings.

He also pointed out that so-called desirability bias, which is the tendency for interviewees to feel compelled to shade their answers towards ‘politically correct’ ones, might mean the true level of worry about climate change is lower than indicated in the statistical surveys.

The study has implications for economists and policymakers, Oswald explains. “There is little point in designing sophisticated economic policies for combatting climate change until voters feel that climate change is a deeply disturbing problem. Currently, those voters do not feel that.”

Professor Oswald and Mr Adam Nowakowski of Bocconi University in Italy analysed data from two large-scale sources, the 2016 European Social Survey and the 2019 Eurobarometer survey. They found:-

  • Europeans do not exhibit high levels of worry about climate change, with 1 in 20 describing themselves as ‘extremely worried’
  • Europe’s citizens are more concerned with inward-looking issues seen as closer to home, such as inflation, the general economic situation, health and social security, and unemployment.
  • Europeans do not have a strong belief that joint action by energy users will make a real difference to climate change.
  • Women, young people, university graduates and city-dwellers show higher levels of concern about climate change.
  • People living in warmer European countries had higher levels of concern than those in the cooler North of the continent.

On the way to move forward, Oswald and Nowakowsi suggest parallels with the original government campaigns to cut smoking. They argue that it will be necessary to change people’s feelings about the problem of rising global temperatures. Just as education about the risks of smoking went hand-in-hand with graphic warnings and tax increases, governments should consider doing more to educate and alter people’s perceived level of worry about climate change.

Adam Nowakowski commented: “We should not conclude that Europe does not care at all about climate change. However, our analysis of the data does suggest that European citizens are not ready for policies which would have strongly negative consequences on their day-to-day lives – not least because we have found a low level of confidence in the usefulness of joint action.”

  • Do Europeans Care about Climate Change? An Illustration of the Importance of Data on Human Feelings. Adam Nowakowski, Bocconi University and Andrew J. Oswald, University of Warwick, CAGE and IZA. IZA Discussion Paper No. 13660
  • Downloadable from www.iza.org or www.andrewoswald.com 

14 September 2020

Press Release Source: https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/research_reveals_climate-change

Professor Oswald’s study is available here.

Convincing people to make lifestyle sacrifices will be a real uphill battle, after all the nonsense which has been published about solar energy and wind being the cheapest sources of energy. Why would anyone need to cut their personal energy consumption, in a world awash with inexhaustible renewable energy?

Even Extinction Rebellion doesn’t appear to believe in cutting personal energy use, at least if you are rich and famous. When challenged about fly in celebrities joining their anti air travel protests, Extinction Rebellion claimed celebrities couldn’t help their gigantic carbon footprints because “we are stuck in this fossil-fuel economy and without systemic change, our lifestyles will keep on causing climate and ecological harm.“.

155 thoughts on “Claim: Europeans Don’t Care Enough about Climate Change to Act

  1. And yet socialist governments of the EU are quite prepared to sell future generations down the river by WASTING diminished funding on unreliable, intermittent, and/or environment destroying so-called “renewable” energy such as wind, solar and forests.

    • Agree completely fred250.

      It also appears that the majority of academics are prepared to “sell their great grandchildren down the river”, for a few pieces of silver in grant money.

    • The EU being typically continental European, elitist, and inconsiderate of the lives of the populace, will welcome any new law if it means bigger government, more tax, and more oppression of the populace.

      Anglo-Saxons, and their offspring around the world, have only ever been ruled by consent, and our rulers know that, to their cost. Our king was elected, if he got too despotic, he could be replaced, by anyone. We killed kings, put foreigners on the throne, the Yanks told our continental despotic imported king George to sling his hook!

    • Fred, woody biomass for energy is indeed a renewable resource. The forests are not destroyed by harvesting woody biomass as a byproduct of long term forest management. Woody biomass can provide base load power- so it doesn’t belong with phony renewable wind and energy.

      • California has… err had.. a lot of woody biomass that just got burned. Since it is a renewable resource, in another 30 years or so it will be available again.

        • Nonsense. If you manage a million acres and only a few thousand get trimmed for biomass- though you’re emitting CO2 when burning that wood in a biomass power plant- the rest of the acreage is adding carbon- so the forest in its entirely is a carbon sink. You don’t cut a tree- and look at the stump and say, “it’ll take decades to regrow”- you OPEN YOUR EYES and look at the entire forest. If enough of this is done- the forest won’t burn in wild fires- at least not as much- and you’ll have better forests by having retained the better trees. Personally, as a forester in Mass. for 47 years, I don’t care for clear cuts- but thinning the forest is fine- removing sawlogs, pulp, biomass, etc. Some clear cutting, however, is actually good forestry- depending on the type of forest, age, etc. I just don’t like the looks of it- if large. If only a few acres, it’s not so bad.

          And, you don’t know the meaning of sustainable. It means you can keep doing it. What you’re trying to say is that burning wood in a power plant is not carbon neutral- but you’re wrong as I explained above.

          • If California had just managed its forests and kept a viable forestry industry, the biomass from just the waste of that industry could have supplied much of the same electricity as the solar/wind projects do, and be reliable base load electricity. And perhaps would have failed back these extensive wild fires now. Forestry is truly sustainable, as we see from the fires now burning up much of that resource. There will always be fires, but maybe much less if we manage our forests better.

            Some of the new R&D to gasify biomass/garbage and burn it in CCGT turbines at twice the efficiency would also be a big gain for getting a better return. This forestry waste comes from a near 2 billion m3 annual global forest industry that has about 1/3 waste but it does self renew and will always be a source to play a small role in our energy mix. It’s too bad that Drax like policies have jaded some folk into rejecting all forms of biomass. This is a permanent resource that won’t go away, so we may as well utilize it as best we can.

          • (no reply buttons this deep so I’m replying to myself- actually replying to Earthling2)

            So, Earthling2, what’s your problem with Drax? Just curious. It’s a great market for southern chips. I wish Massachusetts would start sending chips to Drax and other European markets- but this state is loaded with forestry hating fanatics.

          • Joesph…the problem with Drax is that it sits atop a perfectly good coal resource that was needlessly converted to run on 100% pellets for the burners/boilers they converted to pure pellets. I think that pissed off so many people (with higher electricity prices and stupid CO2 arguments) that it led to the anti wood pellet movement that we even see here now. The burners don’t know the difference, but it drove the anti biomass movement to make all biomass bad, and led to Greenpeace type arguments against cutting down trees, which a few of the old videos show them harvesting old dying or rotten forests to burn for thermal biomass or pellet production and insinuating that all wood pellets come from old growth pristine forests that are just cut down for 100% pellet production. Of course, most of that is all an outright lie, as the timber resource always makes the highest use out of a tree for plywood, lumber, OSB etc or they point to southern plantations that plant purpose grown hardwoods/softwoods for the pulp industry, some of which gets a better price for the pellet industry than the toilet paper market. It led directly to the anti wood pellet industry that we even see here at WUWT, which is very depressing because it isn’t truthful.

            IMHO, I think a better approach is to mix ground up wood pellet into existing coal fired plants at maybe a 10%-15% mix, and keep all the coal plants plants operational. The west coast pellet industry processes almost 100% waste product of one type or another from the forest industry for the Asian coal buyers to mix in with coal, which justified keeping open all these coal plants open in Asia. Which is good, since we have tens of millions of tons of wood waste that has to be dealt with. There isn’t a peep of criticism here on the west coast or in Asia from anyone about utilizing wood pellets for their coal burners. It’s not only a non issue, but one that we all take great pride in, utilizing a resource that was historically burnt in giant beehive burners for many decades. All of central British Columbia (not Vancouver) ~about a million people, get their electricity from just burning the bark and rough slabs from the forest industry. The planer and chipper shavings get sold to the pellet industry and none of is so far is subsidized. Gasifying wood waste will even have better utilization.

            Just think if Australia could have been convinced to to co-fire their coal plants with 10%-15% pellet material which has a BTU value equal to low grade brown lignite coal, and not blow up perfectly good coal generators before their useful life time was up. Instead they went whole hog on grid scale wind/solar, that isn’t even base load. We all need to give a little, since politics (especially in a democracy) is the art of compromise.

          • Denying that you are putting the sequestered CO2 of 30-40 years of growth, back into the atmosphere in a less than a minute doesn’t help your story.

          • Fred, sorry you don’t understand, but this is terrestrial carbon. Not fossil carbon. All those trees are going to recycle through the carbon cycle again in short order. What would you do with all the forestry waste? Landfill it? Or ignore it like in California, Oregon and Washington State and then let it burn uncontrolled. Your CO2 argument makes no sense, and is totally against the stupidity of Drax not burning the coal that is right under their own nose. That is a valid argument. But don’t mess the with the employment of millions of people in the forestry industry that have to deal with all this wood waste or practise forestry on private or Gov’t lands. Your argument reminds me of the Alarmists on CO2 having to do with climate change. Maybe even more ignorant because it doesn’t even make any sense.

          • Sorry, It is ALL terrestial carbon. Some just got buried a long time ago.

            Pretense of wood burning being “carbon neutral” is just a non-scientific way of justifying the farce of wood pelleting US forests.

            “look at the entire forest. ”

            Yes, every tree is burnt in less than a minute.. and takes 30-40 years to grow back.

            Your point is ?

        • Nothing to do with carbon neutral, or soaking up CO2 or adding more CO2. Let’s get CO2 to stabilize at 560 ppmv if we can be so lucky to double and maintain that level long term, which is only a modest increase. Doubling next to nothing is still next to nothing. Going from .032% in 1900 to .0416% today is still a very small number. If your concern is CO2, then get a bike and ride it to work, or something.

          This about utilizing a resource that we have a lot of, which is forestry waste by the hundreds of millions of tons globally. We have tens of millions of dead pine trees alone in the Pacific North West (BC, Or & Wa) plus California. If we can make electricity out of it smartly and get a new commercial crop growing, then why not? Are you opposed to proper forest management and the forest industry? The argument that it takes 30-40 years to grow and burns in a minute is disingenuous. It is already forestry waste that has to be dealt with.

          My point now is that you don’t really understand the issue which is evident by your limited understanding that you don’t even understand fossil carbon and present day terrestrial carbon that is or was just alive recently, not buried for tens of millions years. Not that I am opposed anyway to fossil fuels since I use more of it than most. I consider your type of comment to be slander against millions and millions of people that make their living in the forestry industry, which is even more people than is employed in the oil and gas sectors. It is one of the largest industries on the planet. And I don’t think it is the FF industry that is shilling against dealing with our wood waste stream. If your issue is with Drax, take that up with your elected local leaders. Don’t try and destroy my business on this side of the pond which is supplying high quality timber products to the world, of which about a 1/3 is forestry waste that has to be dealt with, one way or another.

          • Earthling- nice to see someone here who understands the forestry world. Unfortunately, forestry folks are often not great communicators so we lose too many political battles over important issues.

  2. Apparently, Europeans – like Americans – have noticed that the climate isn’t changing all that much and the support for the so-called climate change catastrophe is somewhat sketchy.

  3. “doing more to educate and alter people’s perceived level of worry about climate change”
    ??????
    They do not want to alter the “level of worry”. They want to alter the perceived level of worry. I understand that the author is in behavioural science, but this still does not make any sense.

    and this:
    “it will be necessary to change people’s feelings about the problem” and “governments should consider doing more to educate and alter”.

    Right out of George Orwell’s “1984”. This guy is openly advocating for governments to get more involved in controlling how people think and what they feel.
    This stuff is getting way to creepy.

  4. “It seems there is a chance the current generation will be content to sell their great grandchildren down the river,”

    And he says this like it is any amazing discovery?

    Let us be pragmatic, few of us are going to know our grandchildren in any meaningful way, assuming they are even born within our own lifetimes. They will be, or maybe are, basically strangers.

    For some of use the same may apply to their grandchildren. Some of us may never have any during our lifetimes. Some of us may have close emotional bonds with our children’s children, but some of us may go through their later years spitefully spending every last scrap of wealth least our greedy parasite offsprings get a piece of it.

    Our Grandchildren may still be strangers, but are at least more likely to be around during our lifetimes.

    Children? Should we end up having any, we will most likely relate to pretty directly, probably for the simple reason we would be the people raising and guiding them as they develop into adults and this is the important part of our discussion.

    Children? Someone who probably lives with and relies on us.

    Great Grandchildren? Abstract strangers that may not even be around in our lifetime.

    So, if you were forced to spend your money on your children or your great grandchildren, which generation are you more likely to choose?

    “Sorry Kids, you can’t have nice things, because otherwise your own grandchildren will be forced to use air conditioning more often.”

    Your own children are people you are morally, ethically and – Your Country May Vary – legally required to provide for.

    Your great grandchildren are abstract strangers who don’t even exist yet.

    • “Sorry Kids, you can’t have nice things, because…” the government have taken their cut of our wealth in Inheritance tax, or more probably, the care sector had drained our wallet dry in care home fees. (From a UK perspective anyway). Fixed it for you:-)

    • The whole “future generations” thing. Like if you don’t worry about this then you are a puppy kicker. I appreciate the previous inventors and developers that bought about the basis of our modern civilization. But I don’t think They were all that concerned about Me at the time.

    • Craig – +10 on your post.

      The main purpose of this appeal to “think of” future generations (especially the hypothetical fruit of YOUR loins), is just cynical social manipulation and propaganda.

    • In a way, this reminds me of the mental midgets who once proclaimed that we need to leave oil in the ground, because if we don’t our great grandchildren won’t have any oil.
      The problem with this logic is that results in nobody being able to use oil. Ever. (Which was probably the intent.)
      After all, when it comes time for our great grandchildren to start using that oil, they’re told that they can’t use it, otherwise THEIR great grandchildren won’t have any oil.

      The proper thing to do is to use that oil to create wealth, and then pass that wealth down to our great grandchildren.

    • The best part is our regular trolls Loydo, Griff and GhalFruts might have snowflake grandchildren there. The Australian government has just released plans to build a series of gas pipelines from various states to a Gas Hub in Queensland to cover baseload going forward, and so expect the greens and lefties to be out crying any day now.

    • Craig: Great post. I took the opposite approach when discussing this with a liberal friend. That is, how much were your great grand parents concerned about how their actions would affect you? What do you even know about them? Do you even know what your grand parents political views were? If you were very lucky maybe some ancestor of yours built a great family fortune and you inherited some of it (are you a Kennedy, Rockefeller, Getty, duPont, etc.?). But even if you were born rich doesn’t mean that your ancestor was thinking of anyone but themselves when they made their fortunes.

      If these progressive/socialist/communist elitists had any real concern for future generations they might actually show some concern about a $25 trillion debt ($75,000 for ever single person in the US) which is on track to grow to 10 times that if the current crop of liberal politicians get their way. Talk about “selling future generations down the river”! (By the way, isn’t that a racist expression? Shouldn’t this guy be cancelled for using it?)

      • Someone once said to me that most kids grow up trying to avoid the mistakes that their parents made. Since their parents were probably trying to do the same thing, the kids just end up making the same mistakes as their grandparents. Hence the phrase ‘grandparents revenge’.

    • If we really cared about our great grandchildren, our grandchildren, or our children, we would not be running $10 Trillion deficits.

  5. “we are stuck in this fossil-fuel economy and without systemic change, our lifestyles will keep on causing climate and ecological harm.“. (says XR… apparently)

    Guess that goes to show you don’t have to be smart to glue yourself to stationary objects.

    Under their logic we are removed from blame for using a fossil-fuel economy. XR state that without systemic change we are stuck, yet XR as an agent of change has clearly failed. XR has not delivered systemic change and by the extension of their same logic, we are stuck and unable to perform change by ourselves.

    So… under XR logic… nothing we can do to change, so may as well enjoy it.

  6. I am deeply worried about climate change activism. I read a prescient editorial In the ‘60s by the late great John Campbell in his pulp rag Analog, in which he predicted that three ‘green’ movements would become huge problems in the world. I know two of them were: radical extreme Islam, with its green flag, and radical extreme environmentalism. I wish I could find a copy of the editorial, because for the life of me, I cannot remember the third.

  7. It’s not that they don’t care. Rather, they don’t believe the hype.

    AGW and the associated carbon tax is all about a new world order.

  8. It was a real treat today to see President Trump being lectured in California about climate change being responsible for the fires, and Trump laughing/grinning and saying in reply “I don’t think Science knows”.

    If President Trump is reelected, I think the world will quit whipping this dead horse for now, because without the USA participation, it is all for not and the EU and few other countries continuing to try and change the weather, is well, just preposterous. That just seems so funny to read that back. And anyone who legitimately believes that has to be stark raving mad. I guess they will be mad about losing all their climate grants and hedge funds losing out on cashing in on upfront fees for solar/wind renewable electricity contracts. #GoTrump and crush this socialistic/marxist curse that has reared its ugly head.

  9. “the true level of worry about climate change is lower than indicated in the statistical surveys.”

    Imagine my shock.

    Next thing you know, we’ll discover that there were fewer supporters of the National Socialist Party than we thought there were.

  10. Would that be the dry river bed or flooded river for the great grandkiddies? Personally I understood with all the tipping points already tipped there wouldn’t be any grandkiddies let alone great grandkiddies so thankfully the dooming has its limits. Stay calm everyone and may your God go with you.

  11. The Green political parties are radical and want radical changes in how society operates. Most people don’t like radical change.

  12. Oswald and Nowakowsi “argue that it will be necessary to change people’s feelings about the problem of rising global temperatures.”

    So funny . . . they analyzed the data from the cited two large-scale sources, and apparently according to the above article never—for even a second—considered that the data might represent objectively reality and that THEY might be the ones that have the wrong conceptions.

    Oh, no, the source data is not conforming to what we think it should be! . . . therefore, we must modify the data sources because we are the supreme holders of truth. Yeah, right.

  13. Simple answer, we’ve seen nothing to cause alarm. Every time the UK’s seen the “Effects of climate change”, we’re either very happy ( Some warm weather!) or it’s shown to be due to mismanagement (Flooding due to not maintaining water courses & building on areas prone to flooding)

  14. Another “claim” of more death “your baby’s will die”, Yet all it comes down to is money. No matter who it is, saving the planet can only be done, with “academics” being paid vast amounts, and people like me being taxed for simply breathing oxygen…

  15. ‘Convincing people to make lifestyle sacrifices will be a real uphill battle, after all the nonsense which has been published about solar energy and wind being the cheapest sources of energy. Why would anyone need to cut their personal energy consumption, in a world awash with inexhaustible renewable energy?’

    Well let’s see: the UK cut its CO2 by 42% on 1990 levels and retired most of its coal power plants, 37.1% of the electricity generated in the UK in 2019 was renewable. And no impact, certainly no sacrifices, on the part of anyone in the UK. Nobody I know cutting consumption (except by energy efficient appliances and LED lighting!)

    • I remember living in the UK, heating the home in February got really expensive.

      Lots of people on my street were likely in breach of clean air laws, feeding wood burners with cheap wood acquired from anyone who would sell it off the back of a truck, no questions asked, to try to keep their heating bills affordable. People who couldn’t even afford cheap wood, like pensioners, shivered and wrapped themselves in blankets, drinking hot drinks, trying to stave off hypothermia.

      I’ll never forget one time after freezing rain we went to check on our neighbours. The husband was about to risk his life hobbling to the store over frozen pavements, so we dropped off some essentials. He couldn’t afford a cab – he had spent most of his money on heating, only had enough money left for food.

    • Trust you to misunderstand the quote, griff.

      Though it does identify the problem the activists have got. They can only get away with their lies about how cheap wind and solar are because there is still genuinely cheap gas, nuclear and coal to keep the costs within reasonable bounds. They rely in the sheep not realising they have been fleeced until it’s too late.

      And as usual there are some sheep happily lining up to be fleeced. Isn’t that right, griff. Baaaa!

      • Good point Bill, about exporting CO2 production. The state of Massachusetts loves to brag that it has the lowest or 2nd lowest CO2 emissions per capita. The reason of course is that this state now has almost no more industry- other than high tech, hospitals and universities. Almost every town has dozens of empty factory buildings- now rotting like ancient Roman ruins. Whenever I see a news article about the governor bragging about how energy efficient the state is- I fire off comments to many state politicians how wrong that is due to exporting the industries- but they don’t have the guts or brains to respond. This ultra green state is now in the process of paving over the landscape with solar “farms”. It still is green with trees but THAT green will soon be shiny metal and plastic solar panels. And of course, the state is planning some really big wind “farms” off the coast at immense expense.

      • I will dispute that… demand decrease has occurred every year from 1990 but it is attributable to improved energy efficiency, not to the flight of industry. In other words, the electricity we generate is less carbon intensive.

        • Griff, are you seriously claiming that the loss of all of Britain’s heavy industry has had no effect on energy demand in Britain? Are you denying that Britain is the biggest importer of co2 emissions per head among major economies? Your original comment was that Britain had hugely decreased its co2 emissions; I have shown that that is grossly misleading. Instead of admitting that you were wrong, you have blatantly tried to change the subject.

    • Well let’s see electricity production today in UK:
      Wind 2% (wind speed over much of England in single digits km/h)
      Solar 4% (only the very far East escaping medium to high cloud cover)
      Biomass 5.5%

      Gas 61%
      Coal 7%
      Nuclear 14.5%

      There’s no impact because fossil fuels and nuclear are today providing over 80% of electricity needs.

      • Slightly o/t, but it’s reported (by Reuters) that Hitachi is pulling out of our latest nuclear project, as they cannot find investors.

        I’m rather disappointed by that.

        Can I claim a grant for enviro-mental damage?

      • Or, you could shut down the Gas, Coal, and Nuclear and run on Wind, Solar, and Biomass and everyone have electricity for 2 hours 45 minutes a day. Griff will be in heaven, as Wind would provide 17.4%, Solar 35%, and Biomass 47.6% of available electricity! Until sundown! Then watch the Wind and Biomass energy sources SOAR to even higher percentages! Just under 2 hours per day of renewable electricity for everyone. Wow.

    • Griff,
      To say that, you have to have side by side economic studies of straight fossil fuel electricity costs (not in the current mode of breast feeding renewables) and renewables operating with whatever support costs like nuclear or fossil.
      I know of no such comparison. Can you reference it for me, for I am tiring from searching? Thanks. Geoff S

    • Griff says:

      “Well let’s see: the UK cut its CO2 by 42% on 1990 levels”

      Yes – that was the “dash to gas” ie replaced coal fired power generation with gas fired. Still fossil fuels, not renewables.

      Regarding electricity bills, average annual domestic electricity bill in the UK has increased from around £480 per year (2009) to £679 per year (2019). That’s an increase of around 40%. In the same period average annual gas bill went from £520 to about £615 – an 18% rise.

      And of course we are paying an additional set of subsidies of the order of £10 billion a year through general taxation – about £360 per annum per household in the UK.

      • you are ignoring the fact that a sizeable proportion of that coal has been replaced by renewables.

        Most of the increased cost in UK bills is due to natural gas prices…

        I hope you will amend your post to be sure it covers fossil fuel subsidies.

        • Griff says “Most of the increased cost in UK bills is due to natural gas prices…”

          Which is crock. Gas prices have wobbled up and down, but are currently down. And if gas prices are the cuase of electricity price rises, why have gas bills only risen 18% over the period and electricity 40%?

          There are no fossil fuel subsidies in the UK, by the way. Its an an entirely fabricated meme by greens. If there are fossil fuel – please show us where the payments are listed in the government data! Even the Treasury disagrees with you.

          • UK wholsale gas prices at OfGem for the last 10 years.

            https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/wholesale-market-indicators

            Look forward to Griff showing me how the increased cost in UK bills is due to natural gas prices:

            Year average
            2009 27.9 (Oct-Dec)
            2010 42.4
            2011 56.3
            2012 59.7
            2013 68.1
            2014 50.1
            2015 42.7
            2016 34.7
            2017 45.1
            2018 60.4
            2019 34.7
            2020 19.9 (Jan-May)

            Stick a trend line through and see which way it goes. The 6 year period 2009 – 2014 has an average price of 50.7 p/therm, the 6 year period 2014 – 2019 has an average price of 44.6 p/therm. No rise in gas prices there.

            Still waiting for Griff to link me to the published UK Treasury table of “Fossil Fuel Subsidies”.

          • Just as a reminder for Griff about the UK taxes on petrol and diesel:

            2019 taxes as a percentage of pump price – 60% (Source: RAC Foundation)

            2019 Revenue from fuel duties now stands at £28 billion a year, which is 1.3% of national income. (Source: IFS)

            So just the taxation on petrol and diesel alone in the UK is nearly 3x the ANNUAL SUBSIDIES given to renewables. And they are still uncompetitive.

    • Of course the 10’s of thousands who die every year because they can’t afford food and heat don’t count.

      BTW, griff hasn’t paid any price because the heat in his mom’s basement is free.

    • griff
      You ignorantly said, “And no impact, certainly no sacrifices, on the part of anyone in the UK.” That’s what I call going around wearing blinders. See the remark by Worrall.

      • Like most progressives, griff uses itself to measure the world.
        His life hasn’t been impacted, therefore there has been no impact on anyone.

      • Really? you can point to UK citizens being directly and adversely affected by the likes of closing coal plant and building offshore wind (etc)?

        10 years of (say) govt austerity having no effect?

  16. I don’t know if USA has the same ratio. But us, as Europeans, get aware of propaganda from Fascism, Nazism an Communism, so we became “skeptics”. But, but, but, I’m not sure of the results of the study. It seem a scare picture to convince politicians to do something!
    Sorry for my bad English. I hope you will understand it better than a AI translation.

  17. If they had not been subjects to years of intense propaganda, no sane and rational person would had noticed anything unusual in the passing weather and climate over the last century. The Alarmists know this and continually urge governments to introduce fascist controls on how people think and act,

  18. I’m afraid it’s in Dutch and probably behind a paywall.

    https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/583152015/klimaatprof-begin-warmtetransitie-niet-met-de-oudste-huizen

    It tells about the failure by a climate so-called professor Jan Rotmans to make his own house ‘climate ready’, that is running everything with electricity instead of on gas, which the Dutch politicians want to force through the throat of the population. He spent over 100 thousand Euros (clearly being paid too much) on the ‘transition’ of his own ‘old’ townhouse to the ‘Trias Energetica”: solar panels, insulation and heat pumps. He couldn’t get it to work, whatever he threw at it, to keep him comfortable. He laments, without a gas boiler it didn’t work. And this gentleman advises the government on its disastrous energy policies. Any humility and repenting? What do you think, the guy considers himself a hero because he tried.

    • Now let him try in Elfstedentocht weather, when the canals are all frozen over to allow thousands to skate the 11 city route.

  19. Taxes, permanently increasing cost of life, utility bills, covid madness, erosion of freedom, security, to name a few.

    Just how retarded are you Mr.Professor & al not to understand that we, your fellow citizens, have to apply stringent resource management just to survive?

    Just go outside, run a grocery list, check the bills piling in the mail mail and try to figure how we got there, a three fold increase of our heating budget since 2015 ? It got that cold and we need to run our heating three times more ?

    What attachment to reality can you claim when you and your peers, the “climate intelligentsia”, live on tenures & side revenues at least two times the paycheck of a training captain who faces weather with that many souls at his back on a daily basis ?

    Is weather, and consequently climate, defined as an “integral of weather”, supposed to be always identical to the one of your office ? With a thermostat and hydrostat on the wall ?

    Get real, earn yourself be it just a bit of decency, put a cork in it.

    Say you I’m being disrespectful ? Spot on Mr. Professor, you can be proud of my achievements in the only subject you teach so well, don’t forget to give me an A+ grade for the effort.

  20. I remember reading an article in a European Cement Trade rag and they were shredding the blades and using them as a binder in concrete.

    • Well, that will save some landfill and lock the fibreglass away forever. I was thinking they could be melted into solid bricks the size of no post cement guard rails, and used in highway construction of some sort. Expensive, but at last have some kind of good final use for all that waste. I don’t think we have to worry long term that these monstrosities getting replaced, because they won’t have any subsidy available in 10-15 years. There will undoubtedly be other much better and denser energy sources available in the future that will make big wind and solar PV not viable for grid scale. We should stop building these types of renewables now and let these current contracts just die a natural death when they wear out, or the contract expires. Phase them out by attrition.

  21. Convincing people to make lifestyle sacrifices will be a real uphill battle.

    Considering that we all go about our business these days wearing a face mask, it looks like all it takes is an executive order from the big kahuna and the sheep do as they’re told.

  22. I wish everyone, well, nearly everyone, would stop lumping “climate change” and “the environment” together. They are two totally different problems.
    We can’t do anything about the first, it is probably all or mostly natural. The second we can to something about. Stop building useless windmills and covering productive land with polluting solar panels for a start, and get the disposing of used plastic sorted out.

    • +1M

      “get the disposing of used plastic sorted out” OH YES THIS, so much THIS.

      How would those same “climate activists” react if they knew how much plastic is actually recycled in comparison to the tons of plastic dumped elsewhere in the world because there is NO MARKET TO RECYCLE IT?

      I’ll tell you how…they will dismiss the entire concept of needing a market for all their grab and go salads in clamshells they throw in the recycle bin without concern because “it’s in the recycle bin” and they can pat themselves on the back. They have done their “duty”. But chances are that clamshell does not have a market to recycle it–so all those good feels about recycling are based on nothing of substance.

      The problem I see with climate activist vs real environmentalism is very simple: squirrel syndrome (or new shiny puppy for those that don’t get the squirrel reference). While a real environmentalist looks at all factors (including the market to recycle plastic in this case) an activist only sees what is in front of them. They toss that recyclable clamshell after carefully washing it into the recycle bin but don’t think about the water used to wash it or the power used to move it to the sorting center, the machines to sort it, or what happens when it is separated out and deemed landfill. And environmentalist will look at the entire chain of custody from that clamshell and ask a very simple question, if there is no market to recycle it; why not? And if it is too cost prohibitive to recycle it, is there a better product that can be mass produced at the same price and recycled afterwards? No? Well then, how long will it take to break down and wouldn’t it be cheaper then to just stop buying the salad using that clamshell? And wouldn’t it be easier to just reduce the amount of unrecyclable materials rather than trying to create a market to recycle them? So let’s just do that, educate on which materials are recyclable and reduce our consumption of those that aren’t.

      But you say that to an activist and they’ll go on and on about how they don’t have the time deal with that big of stuff because they have a march to get to and forget the time to make their own salad because they have better things to do, nor to buy the “appropriate” reusable container because they don’t have the money to pay for the latest and greatest plastic ware along with the stylish insulated lunch bag that is all the rage. And none of them would be caught dead using a paper bag if it was suggested.

      REDUCE, REUSE and Recycle. All they think is that “plastic is recyclable” without actually understanding that a vast majority of it is not. They are stuck on the Recycle, without understanding the reduce and reuse portion…because that means inconvenience to them.

  23. Some of the alarmists are entering the “Despair” phase of grief. Good.
    Carry on, people. The next and final phase is to accept that most people truly don’t care about your obsession and will do nothing about it.

  24. I can assure you, griff, that things are far worse in the UK than you claim. Our grid trips out on a pretty regular basis in the part of the UK where I live, mainly because it can hardly cope with demand. In addition local businesses haven’t been able to expand because there isn’t sufficient capacity in the grid for them to do so. On top of this we’re being encouraged to drive electric cars — quite where the power for them is going to come from is anyone’s guess.

    As for costs, electricity in the UK is incredibly expensive and given that most of the housing stock has been around for a long time this idea they can be made ‘energy efficient’ is pure fantasy. We’re sleep-walking towards energy disaster and everyone I talk to knows it — the only people who don’t seem able to understand this are our wonderful politicians.

    As for ‘renewable’ energy, the plain truth is this will never be sufficiently reliable in the UK to meet demand at the times when power is most needed. As a result we’ll need a lot of capacity on standby — and Lord knows where this is going to come from given what we have at the moment can hardly cope.

    None of this is to say that renewables don’t have a place and can’t make a contribution. I’m all for anything that reduces pollution, but claiming they’re the answer to our energy needs in the UK reveals total ignorance of the facts. They can’t and they never will and the sooner people wake up to this the better.

    • And where is that?

      I get the odd power cut, but not from grid overload or ‘too many renewables’. Are you sure that you know what is cutting off your power?

      Why can’t the housing stock be insulated? I’ve been in a German ‘victorian’ terrace with applied external insulation and it was beautifully cool on a 31C day…

  25. climate tears flow on Australian TV:

    VIDEO: 7m15s: 10 Sept: ABC 7.30 Report: Jane Fonda on why she’s devoting the rest of her life to fighting climate change
    TRANSCRIPT:
    LEIGH SALES, ABC: Can you remember when you first saw Greta Thunberg and the impact it made on you?

    JANE FONDA: When I first saw her was on the pages of a book by Naomi Klein called ‘On Fire. A Burning Case of the Green New Deal’.
    I’ve seen Greta on TV and found her so clear, so direct and of course, everyone talked about the fact that she was autistic but it was Naomi who helped me understand the relationship between the autism and the climate crisis.
    Unlike most of us who aren’t on the spectrum, people with autism or Asperger’s, when they are interested in something, and she’s been a science nerd all her little life, when they focus on that it’s with a laser focus.
    It doesn’t matter if people agree with them. It doesn’t matter if they’re not popular. That’s it and she saw what was happening and she looked around and people weren’t reacting the way you would when your house is on fire. And she said, “We have to act like it’s a crisis, cause it is and we have leave our comfort zones.”…

    LEIGH SALES: You’re 82. Do you think about whether climate change will be the cause to which you dedicate the rest of your life?

    JANE FONDA: Given the small window that we have to avoid the tipping point, I think probably, yeah. I think it will be, this is what I’ll be doing for the rest of my life. Yeah, because it’s the most important thing. If we don’t make it, oh God, it breaks my … really breaks my heart.
    I have children, I have grandchildren and things are just going to spiral out of control.
    All these wonderful species are going to go and life is going to be very, very difficult to live and eventually possibly the human species will go as well because we are trashing our home and I just, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself or die with myself if I don’t do something…

    LEIGH SALES: Observing from here, it really feels like America is going through a very pivotal moment in its history. Is that how it feels to you there as well?

    JANE FONDA: Yes. Totally. This is, a lot of people call it an inflection. I think it’s a tidal wave. I don’t know. It’s big, it’s a big deal. It’s a big deal and it’s so, a lot of people are waking up.
    The COVID has, COVID didn’t break us, COVID exposed where we were already broken and I think a lot of people are seeing that for the first time and that’s really important…

    LEIGH SALES: Do you consider yourself an actor foremost and an activist second or the other way around?

    JANE FONDA: Activist, actor.

    LEIGH SALES: Given that, how do you then decide which acting projects you want to allow to take up some of your time?

    JANE FONDA: Do I need money? There’s that. People forget that we are working people. I belong to three unions. I have to earn a living. I have a bottom line that I’ve got, that I have to meet and its tough right now.
    I mean, not that tough, I have roof over my head and a very nice home that’s paid for and food and I have an assistant with me and I’m very, very lucky, but I’m worried. We will have gone almost a year without working and that’s scary…
    https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/jane-fonda-on-why-she%E2%80%99s-devoting-the-rest-of-her/12652618

  26. Australia’s PM Morrison backs gas power with impending retirement of aging coal plants which fires up Mike Cannon-Brookes of recent beachfront shack purchase fame-
    https://dynamicbusiness.com.au/featured/weve-got-to-get-the-gas-prime-ministers-covid-19-recovery-plan.html
    Not to worry Mike as you should be confident flogging Oz solar power to Singapore will do the King Canute trick. Wouldn’t that be a carbon neutral undersea cable and solar farm?

  27. When the people are constantly lied to they eventually tune out the liars. Therefore they have tuned out the climate “scientists”.

  28. This is so sweet it deserves it’s own post:
    Trump to Californian eco-tard blatherers self-wedgying over wildfires: “It’s going to get cooler”

    • Biden just doesn’t get it. Trump has nothing to do whatever with hurricanes, floods, fire and brimstone. If he is not re-elected those will just continue as nature doesn’t care one iota about who is president. And then Biden will get all the flak. Perhaps it could enlighten him.

      • People have such short memories…… Obama/Biden 2009 – 2017…….. any natural disasters over that 8 year period?……. here’s a few highlights:

        2011 Mississippi Floods : the largest and most damaging recorded along the U.S. waterway in the past century.

        2012 Hurricane Sandy : was the deadliest and most destructive, as well as the strongest, hurricane of the 2012 Atlantic hurricane season. Also the Colorado wildfires.

        2013 Colorado Floods : The flood waters spread across a range of almost 200 miles (320 km) from north to south, affecting 17 counties.

        2016 Louisiana Floods : The flood has been called the worst US natural disaster since Hurricane Sandy in 2012. Biden gets double bonus points for this one.

        2017 Hurricane Harvey : It is tied with 2005’s Hurricane Katrina as the costliest tropical cyclone on record, inflicting $125 billion (2017 USD) in damage.

        …….c’mon man.

      • Just like homelessness disappears as an issue whenever a Democrat is in the White House, so does Climate issues disappear.

        If the media notices these issues at all, they will continue to blame them on Trump.

  29. It should be clear now that we are in an experiment. Here is Speaker of the House of Commons, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, calling for “climate lockdowns”, noting that the public have been amazingly compliant during the virus lockdowns.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1334816/climate-change-rules-lindsay-hoyle-G7

    He obviously knew his host, Nancy Pelosi would agree. Likewise most EU politicians. This is no longer conspiracy theory, but open reported fact.

  30. The best way to get approval for global warming actions is to provide actions that make sense and don’t involve stupid renewable , unreliable, expensive power generation. Educate the masses of the revolutionary molten salt small modular nuclear reactors that are literally at our front door. It’s the global warming alarmists’s solutions , as much as their gross exaggerations, which leads thinking folks to discount their arguments.

    • ColMosby:

      Fourth generation nuclear technologies are in their research and development phases (R & D) now, and I fully support that work. This of course includes molten salt reactors. I however accept that there are no guarantees that any of them will find their way into commercial use if the engineering and technical problems with them are to difficult, costly or complex to overcome.

      It is true that the the MSR experiment at Oak Ridge back in the late 1960s did appear to demonstrate the technical feasibility of the MSR. Unfortunately, President Nixon pulled the plug on it in the early 1970s for political reasons, and the technology was lost and forgotten until 2008 if I remember correctly. So some three and a half decades of development time for the MSR was lost. Would the MSR be in commercial use today if development continued? I don’t know.

      Bill Gates is committing some of his vast wealth into a company (TerraPower) that is working on 4th gen reactors, and I applaud him for it. His company was given a grant some years back from the DOE for R&D work on the molten chloride fast reactor. I think the Southern Company was given some of the money to do the same. Gates’ company is also working on (if I recall correctly) sodium-based integral fast reactor technology. He and his company made a recent announcement….

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2020/08/31/bill-gates-nuclear-firm-says-new-reactor-can-backstop-grid-with-molten-salt-storage/#d8093ad5e65c.

      A large part of the problem here is (I believe) the political clout of the environmental movement in govt and the mainstream media. With their emphasis on a seriously faulty climate alarmist narrative and wind and solar energy, all of this new nuclear technology work gets barely noticed. If the R&D on 4th gen technologies received more money and attention, it might displace all this nonsense about wind and solar energy. I am not holding my breath that it will happen anytime soon.

      So ColMosby, be aware that I do share your enthusiasm for the MSR and 4th gen nuclear reactor technologies in general. My enthusiasm is tinged however by the realization that there are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. I would be careful about being a cheer leader for the MSR until there is significant concrete evidence that it might make its way to commercial viability someday. Unfortunately, if it happens, it is likely still many years away.

  31. Really? After decades of increasingly-shrill and dire warnings about what “will happen” if they don’t “act now”? After a continuous stream of propaganda from the MSM, governments, climate “scientists”, NGOs, power-hungry Greenies, and a whole host of carpet-baggers looking for their cut of the climate dough? They still need to “educate people” on the “dangers” of “climate change”? Really?

  32. Good! They sound like sensible and intelligent people, now if they would just drive out the socialists and islamists they may have a chance yet.

  33. I could have sworn that one of our trolls was telling us that Europeans were 100% committed to stopping climate change. Don’t tell me that trolls lie.

    • all the EU govts and the UK have plans for net zero carbon by 2050 or earlier… many have either shut down coal plant or have an end date for its use… all have increasing amounts of renewable energy… there is no serious opposition to this, politically…

      Effectively that means Europe is completely dedicated to fighting climate change…?

      • Griff, it’s easy to make commitments that are scheduled to be implemented long after you have retired from public office, and it’s your grandchildren who will have to figure out how to reach those goals. It’s much tougher to explain to people honestly the sacrifices they will have to make to achieve those schemes right now, but if they did that, no one would follow. So our woke politicians make grand gestures, pat themselves on the back, and walk away.

        • Well look: this translates to current actual spending and detailed implementation plans. Look at coal power… there is no chance whatever the last 4 UK coal plants will last beyond 2024. The Germans are already moving on retiring their coal… look at investment in the hydrogen economy, where govt R&D funding is going.

          In short is there any evidence that this is just words, hot air – or are there actual infrastructure, legal and energy changes resulting already?

      • from Griff:

        “there is no serious opposition to this, politically”

        There will be when the lights go off, people cannot afford electric bills, gas is banned and you are forced to install electric heating and cooking, gas boilers and cookers won’t be allowed to be replaced except with electric, only expensive electric new vehicles can be bought, EV charging points become mandatory – everyone has to upgrade their fuse boards at home at their own expense, EV charging points overcrowded and too slow, range of vehicles severely reduced compared to ICE cars, new houses are not connected to the gas grid and the subsidies for renewables continue growing.

        Eventually the idiocy of government policy is going to meet the real world. So far its hidden away in subsidies for renewables and future policies. Soon (5 – 10 years) the consequences of those policies will be here and now. I think the backlash will be quite unpleasant. It’s not going to be pretty for the politicians.

        • But here we are 30 years into German expansion of renewables, in a continent which is already retiring its first offshore windfarms after 25 years service and as yet none of those dire predictions about lights going off have come to pass. Not one of them.

          • Thanks to all the imports from reliable power supplies in surrounding countries.

            Stop those imports and the whole German electricity system would collapse.

            Eventually the parasite (Germany), will kill those that feed it. Then the whole lot dies.

      • Apparently everyone but Griff knows this is fantasy. By 2050 all of the politicians who promised this will be dead, or at least retired, But not to worry, the new plan will be to become “net zero carbon” by 2070 don’t you know….

        30 years ago we only had 5 years to turn everything around to avoid the “tipping point”. Then 5 years later we only had 5 years (etc). Then 10 years later we only had 5 more years (etc). Now 30 years later we will all be dead in 10 years if we don’t end capitalism and return to stone age living almost immediately. 10 years from now the same type of people will be saying “we only have 5 years left”…

        Strangely enough, those of us who have been hearing this tripe for 30 years now can’t get all worked up about it. But of course students who have only been hearing it for a few years still get sucked into the alarmism. How they will deal with this in 20 years when the glaciers haven’t melted, the seas haven’t risen, and the storms are the same as always? Mostly they will have forgotten all about it, and the politicians will again lament that they can’t get people to “care enough”…..

          • Germany is a parasite on surrounding countries.

            Absolutely reliant on them for stability of supply.

            Just like South Australia is.

            And both have far higher electricity prices of the countries/ states that support their system from collapse.

        • Hello, Robert. When I was eighteen in 1970 there was a neverending supply of grown-ups ready to tell me that life on Earth was about to become miserable for most people, and especially me. Fifty years later, it is beginning to dawn on me that they may have been a tad pessimistic. It seems that life has improved for most Canadians in that time.

          The only thing that seems to have got worse is that a smaller portion of the population can afford to own stand-along houses. It takes two people with professional level incomes to afford a house in most cities in Canada.

          What is the most striking advance in human happiness that has come to pass in my lifetime? Young people reach the age of twenty without having had any dental caries. That’s my pick for the greatest general population blessing of the last fifty years.

      • Ah yes, the old all the politicians are for it, therefore the people must love it argument.

        I seem to remember a number of French politicians having to hide from a group of farmers not to long ago.

  34. There are several reasons that I fight against climate change action. One is that I value truth. One is that I value the scientific method. There are indeed several reasons, but chief among those are that I know that any and all climate change action policies will make the lives of my children and grand children so much worse.

  35. The general population has a pragmatic bent. The economy always ends up getting top billing. Having said that, the climate wroughters and their fellow travellers have not only never demonstrated a link to any worrisome development in 40yrs of hysteria, but none of the horrors they have wrought with their climate muddles are showing a hint of coming to pass. They keep pushing the drek off into the future. Note the used to worry about the grandkiddies but now (as in this article) it has become something for the great grandkids.

    Meanwhile, the only palpable manifestation of climate change is the rapid greening of the planet and bumper crops! They’ve tried to wrought this as a terrible development but, in embarrassment, they choose to remain fairly quiet about it. The snows of Kilimanjaro are back. Tigers in the Ganges delta are back. Polar bears are beginning to be a factor in earth’s albedo. The green-headed turtle of Myanmar has returned from extinction (probably for camouflage in the strident greening), Lake Chad is full…
    Yeah, minds are turning to the economy.

  36. Great grandchildren? The problem is not in the future. We’ve already stolen Greta Thunberg’s childhood. People are dying. Right now. All because of these darn fairy tales about perpetual economic growth.

    People who claim to be worried about the year 2050 are pretty strange. I don’t worry about anything more than six months out myself. I will surely be long dead in 2050, when I will be (a) unconscious, (b) living in a state of eternal bliss or (c) screaming in agony forever. The most probably option is (a), the one I deserve is (b), and I’m not going to worry about (c), because I don’t need any more anxiety in my life than I already have.

    • Well, Ian with a mental constitution like yours, I hope you are wide awake and laughing about all this. Actually you’ll have a fairly good idea about what 2050 will be like long before that.

      We are slowing pop. growth and will round out at about 9Bil and decline a bit to little more than what we have now. We are entering Garden of Eden greenness and plenty! Bangladesh today has a GDP growth of over 8%. Even Pakistan is at 6% and Africa south of the Sahara is at 3%.

      Trump has broken the back of the self immolation coma affecting the West. Europe and the English-speaking lefty world just don’t know it yet being in real D*Nile. The best is just ahead.

  37. So basically, we now know that Europeans are more intelligent than their choices in government would make them appear to be. Now if they would just start voting the Climate Nazis out of power, they’d improve their lot – and that of their children/grandchildren/great-grandchildren by a whole bunch.

    And the author has it all backwards. If Europeans “don’t care about “climate change” (TM), they refuse to sell their great grandchildren down the river because of climate propaganda. Because “climate policy” will do that, NOT “climate change” (which is nonexistent as the author means it).

  38. “There is little point in designing sophisticated economic policies for combatting climate change until voters feel that climate change is a deeply disturbing problem. Currently, those voters do not feel that.”

    Increasing energy prices and decreasing availability are “deeply disturbing problems”.

  39. My survey shows that people who answer surveys are 25 times more likely to understand fundamental reality than the people who design surveys.

  40. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has today officially backed plans to increase the EU’s 2030 greenhouse gas emissions reduction target to 55 per cent from 1990 levels, as she announced a raft of climate priorities in her maiden State of the Union address to European lawmakers this morning.

    Addressing the European Parliament in Brussels, von der Leyen emphasised that pushing the EU’s existing carbon reduction target of 40 per cent to a more stretching 55 per cent by 2030 was “ambitious, achievable and beneficial for Europe”, and would enable to bloc to achieve carbon neutrality by 2050 in line with the Paris Agreement.

    “I recognise that this increase from 40 to 55 is too much for some and not enough for others,” she said in her speech, designed to set out the Commission’s priorities for the year ahead. “But our impact assessment shows that our economy and industry can manage it.”

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