Guest essay by Eric Worrall
According to Valentin Dupouey, head of communications for the European Greens, a pan-European federation of green parties, a major overhaul of Democracy is required to force acceptance of the economic de-growth required to address the climate crisis.
He also thinks its important to explain to China that because of climate change, “a Chinese average citizen … will never be able to reach the material lifestyle of a French minimum-wage worker.“
DEMOCRACY NEEDS A COPERNICAN REVOLUTION TO SURVIVE CLIMATE CHANGE
22 March, by Valentin Dupouey
Democracy and climate change: framing the question and setting a discussion ground
I believe this broad framework boils down to three core questions:
1) Can democratic infrastructures react quickly enough to prevent the climate meltdown and societal collapse foreseen by scientists?
2) Can democracy, human rights and the rule of law survive the climate meltdown if it can’t prevent it?
And if, as I increasingly believe, the only solution will be a half-planned, half-forced degrowth:
3) Can democracy accompany degrowth and its societal impacts?
…
Scenario 2: Half-forced, half-controlled degrowth
The only assumption needed here is the belief that decoupling cannot happen or will not happen fast enough – which in my opinion is much more likely. We also need to accept that continuous growth in the extraction of fossil energy is neither desirable (because of the climate meltdown) nor even physically possible; there is increasing evidence showing that we are approaching the peak extraction of oil, and that we could be reaching it for other fossil fuels soon.
…
Controlled degrowth means being able to say to voters at the next electoral cycle: “If we want to reduce our CO2 emissions, we need to decrease our GDP. Therefore, we won’t promise you more. We will need to decide which needs and desires we want to live without first and which ones we want to safeguard. You can’t have a starter, main dish and dessert anymore. It’s either/or. Which one do you want to keep?”
It is unspeakable at the level of one country but it is even more unthinkable on a global scale. We need to be able to tell a French minimum-wage worker that his lifestyle is not compatible with the planet’s boundaries, and we need to be able to say to a Chinese average citizen that he will never be able to reach the material lifestyle of a French minimum-wage worker.
…
Read more: https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/democracy-needs-a-copernican-revolution-to-survive-climate-change?lang=fr
I’m glad the European greens put their head of communications on the case, a person with inferior communication skills might have made a total mess of the topic of climate rationing, by producing a stream thoughtless bombastic statements of breathtaking arrogance and insensitivity.
I don’t know why a European like Dupouey thinks decoupling CO2 from cheap energy is such a problem. France, a leading member of the EU, is also the world leader in decoupling; the French successfully decoupled economic growth from CO2 emissions in the 1970s, when they replaced most of their coal plants with nuclear power plants.
If the rest of the world copied the 1970s French nuclear program, global CO2 emissions would plummet by at least 25%, likely a lot more.
As for Dupouey’s comments about Chinese workers needing to understand their position in life, that place being somewhere below the living standards of French workers, I hope Dupouey is considering a personal visit to the Middle Kingdom, explain his thinking to Chinese workers. I’m sure they would be very moved by his words.
Breathtaking arrogance…………..but that’s par for the course with these people.
I’m fairly sure Valentin intends to continue eating cake……..but that’s also no surprise.
Also, a lot of speculation (multiple mentions) that we may have to away with democracy, human rights, and the rule of law. If you read between the lines. If democracy and rule of law can’t prevent climate change, then in a hundred years, we may not have democracy and rule of law, so therefore, we need to get rid of democracy and rule of law now to prevent climate change so that we don’t lose them in the future. Got it?
If we want to reduce our CO2 emissions
He hit the nail on the head.
A winning political platform: Vote for us and we will lower your living standards.
I am not surprised. I think this report demonstrates conclusively that the Greens ( as they were in the days of the Nazis) totalitarians at heart. They want to rule because they are so convinced of their own intellectual and moral superiority over everyone else, and it seems regarding the Chinese, they are racists to boot. Or jackboot more likely.
+1
Thanks Tim. Good to know I am not the only one.
I agree. It is easy to prove they are clueless about science. Green light is not only useless for plant growth, it is positively harmful to young plants. Useless and harmful. Sums them up I reckon.
I’m trying to remember what the French did with their previous batch of elites when they realized the rank incompetence and arrogance they represented. If I remember it was a bloody come-uppance!
Kneel before Zod!
I wonder if even his big head can squeeze through those tall doors in Versailles or does he just float through on all that hot air?
Imperialistic dribble. What century was this from again?
Hey, if Trump hadn’t been elected it would’ve been a fait accompli! Barack “new normal” O. started us well down the path to “managing the decline,” and Hillary was slated to finish the job. We would have wound up the “poor relation” of the EU, with Brussels calling the shots as proxy for the UN.
BTW, the WHO lost a boatload of credibility when they came out with that EAT-Lancet Diet, which if followed would basically cause the human species to go extinct from deficiency diseases. Maybe that was their plan? The Paul Ehrlichs among them are convinced that has to happen “for the planet.” These people are little more than another relgious doomsday cult. Believe ANYTHING they say at your peril!
Degrowth…
Striving for the good life for all. This includes deceleration, time welfare and conviviality
https://www.degrowth.info/en/what-is-degrowth/
Time welfare?
well marvellous example of”degrowth” right now
doesnt seem to be that popular somehow??
dunno why
and yet another newspeak word to avoid saying the words more apt
like unemployment misery and shortages for all
so far all the “living wage” schemes have fallen over n been halted
just getting by doesnt encourage a happy mood or ability to take the risks required to innovate create and be social, or have any joy about a future thats better.
‘Degrowth’ is the technical term for the gradual but steady decline in the IQ of climate alarmists. ‘Hiding the decline’ was a manifestation of attempts to conceal same confected by Michael Mann. An evangelical journey to China by Monsieur Dupouey to explain his thesis would be another manifestation indicating near imbecility has been achieved.
Degrowth is the UNFCCC’s master plan to ‘equalize’ wealth around the world by destroying wealth and prosperity in the developed world. This is why the alarmists see Covid-19 as good for their cause because it achieves their goal without the inconvenience of relying on fake science.
Yes, if we are all poor, then we are all equal. Except for our leaders of course; they need to live the lap of (relative) luxury because they are so important.
Well, they want about billion slaves poor. The rest they want dead.
People are equeal if they all own equalizers of equal size and capacity.
Samuel Colt made all men equal.
The Alarmists have not worked out were we are going because of the corvid-19 isolation, work shutdown, restaurant, gym, schools, and so on shutdown.
The Left’s money wasting and CAGW has possible because we could still borrow and kill jobs.
Spend money to fight climate change or spend money on job creation?
Tough question, now there is 20% unemployment and there are currency problems because we have borrowed too much money and the general public are scared because some countries can no longer borrow and have got inflation.
co2isnotevil
As usual it is a plan to equalize poverty. The poor Chinese may not match the French minimum wage worker, but the French can be driven to match the average Chinese minimum wage worker – no problem.
“…react quickly enough to prevent the climate meltdown…”
What on earth is a “climate meltdown” that has to see the impoverishment of the French (for example)? From all appearances, the cure is far worse than the purported disease. When it comes to COVID-19, the cure seems simple enough – a vaccine. That will be less-worse than the disease. The anti-inoculation crowd can ignore the clinics and line up over at the entrance to the Darwin Award building. Thank them for their (self) sacrifice.
The idea of “equalization” is sort of catchy but as we all know, they will run out of OPM (other people’s money) long before their development dreams are recognized. If we drop the fake science we can also drop the fake promises of a nirvana-driven elite bringing manna from thin air. No taxation without representation. I didn’t vote for Dupouey. Did anyone else? When was the election?
He also thinks its important to explain to China that because of climate change, “a Chinese average citizen … will never be able to reach the material lifestyle of a French minimum-wage worker.“
Colonialist, elitist, hypocritical LOSER!!! He gets to keep his lifestyle but everyone else can just stay where they are. LMAO. Good luck with that one! I’ll be happy to chip in for a one way ticket to China so he can explain it in person to his “victims”.
I’m guessing if Depouey explains this to rural Chinese he will discover the alternate use of pitchforks. Wait for the video.
Summarizing (his stance):
“Let them eat (the) cake(d remnants of bread at the bottom of the oven.)”
Oven? Bloody luxury!
re: “Oven?”
One step up from an ‘open fire’; literally, bricks arranged in a formation enabling even, controlled heating for the making of bread (an open pit fire works well for ‘turning’ an animal on say a shish kabob skewer).
That would mean burning something, wood, dung what-have-you, and we can’t have that now can we?
Combustion; one of the most powerful forces on earth. On a cool day while burning trash lumber in a ‘burn barrel’ I was both welcomingly-warmed while driving my cataracts (at the time) further opaque (there is a story behind this) …
Fire – what can’t it do? Ask a ‘greenie’, I’m sure the answer would astound …
Speaking of which, I admire the company so named “Combustion Engineering”; explains exactly what they do …
Especially when he has already prefaced this remark with telling said French minimum wage worker that “his lifestyle is incompatible with the planet’s boundaries”. Hmm. New World Order, anyone?
Well that’s sure telling them peasants and coolies to understand their place in the big scheme of things.
Keep the pearls of wisdom from the movement coming doomsters.
He will have to be careful, I don’t think the public have got the stomach for this kind of “wisdom” right now….
“ I don’t know why a European like Dupouey thinks decoupling CO2 from cheap energy is such a problem.”
It’s very simple, Eric. Just read it in conjunction with his argument about the living standards of Chinese workers and then link to the (alleged) quote from Michael Oppenheimer — “ We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”
He isn’t interested in “decoupling CO2 from cheap energy”; what the Greens want is to decouple modern society from itself. The aim is to reverse the Industrial Revolution. CO2 is only the excuse because only the abandonment of fossil-based materials to provide the essentials of modern living will produce the result they want and the one thing all those materials — coal, oil, natural gas — have in common is that they produce carbon dioxide. Easier to demonise CO2 than persuade people that the pre-industrial lifestyle is something to strive for. Because it isn’t and they know that.
But you know all this! Our problem is we are no good at persuading others — politicians especially — that the Greens’ philosophy is built on lies and that the chimera of continuing to live anything even vaguely resembling our present lives without fossil fuels or some as yet to be discovered replacement (it will happen, just not in my lifetime) is just that — a chimera, a dream, pie in the sky.
I presume this complete idiot is against Nuc power generation while benefiting from it since birth.
Somehow I think uncle Karl’s ‘Up the workers!’ got a bit lost in translation with this erudite champion of the working classes.
A, I mean “A” rude Frenchman? Is that after he dropped his weapon?
well……that’s about the closest I’ve seen to blaming global warming on China
….it’s a start
re: “EU Green Leader Explains Climate Change and Democracy, and Why Chinese People should Accept Their Place”
No allusions to “Live free or die” in that quote leader’s unquote rhetoric.
.
.
(“Live Free or Die” – official motto of New Hampshire, adopted in 1945.)
I would like to propose a Green Super-Concerned Ultra-Virtuous Person Exchange Program. (The GSCUVPEP)
We would send China 2 GSCUVP’s in exchange for one freedom loving educated Chinese individual.
That way one slave is freed and 2 Activists can Actively Protest the CCP…right to their faces… about their obscene and growing CO2 Emissions.
They don’t want to live in someone else’s worker’s paradise. They want to have their own, where they are in charge.
Chicoms, you want to protest the Chicoms (CHINESE COMMUNISTS). I don’t get this ‘soft peddling’ of the Chinese Communists by using the CCP label. Makes no sense … I’m SURE there are non-communists in the communist party in China, because, you will not advance your business activities if you do not sign up as a member! SO the “Chinese Communist Party” is not really the ‘object’ of scorn here, BUT, the hardcore Chinese Communists (Chicoms) are, specifically again, those b*stards who would impress their communist ideology on everybody around them …
At the barrel end of a gun.
If this were to magically occcur..
“If the rest of the world copied the 1970s French nuclear program, global CO2 emissions would plummet by at least 25%, likely a lot more. ”
After a couple of years of this miracle, would the Keeling curve slope bend down?
I doubt it. The human contribution is small, and the vast feedback loops in the earth’ environment would adjust, and keep the slope the same.
Is there any data ? Reliable back of the envelope calculation?
I suspect you might be able to discern a slight difference in the ratio of CO2 types in short term atmospheric samples.
I probably should have said “global anthropogenic CO2 emissions”, that is what I was thinking.
Dupouey sounds like the The king in the Wizard of ID
“The (Chinese) peasants are revolting “
King: “you can say that again”
The Greens are a gang of virtue signaling socialist losers. It’s very easy to propose irresponsible policies without consequences. Their vote totals may be up but it’s basically a jumbo shrimp situation. Unfortunately more mainstream parties will feel the need to co-opt their hare brained schemes. Both the German and U.K. Conservatives have already fallen into this trap.
Bad policy is bad policy.
One of the hall marks of left wing thinking is talking. They think talking will solve everything. Just explain it to them. Negotiate! It’s not their fault, it is the way their brains work, good at words bad at numbers. Right wingers call left wingers stupid because left wingers don’t get numbers and left wingers don’t care because they believe it is not necessary to understand something that is not important.
Dupouey’s monumentally stupid arrogance is breathtaking – except you really must just laugh at it. If this fellow is really a spokesperson for the European Greens, it simply shows that this venerable political movement, which has in fact had immense impact and importance in world politics for half a century, has now deteriorated to become just a meaningless cult.
“He also thinks its important to explain to China that because of climate change, a Chinese average citizen … will never be able to reach the material lifestyle of a French minimum-wage worker”
Did he read the UNFCCC which he is apparently enforcing? China is a non-Annex country. That was why W would not sign the Kyoto Protocol.
I suspect he’s never been to China.
I really do appreciate it when they’re honest and not trying to hide their real agenda: Keep the world’s poor people poor and dependent, and “managed decline” to make the west’s middle class the same.
So the EU comes out plainly against democracy, against freedom, against human flourishing. Totalitarian dictators. That is what the EU is made of. Absolutely disgusting.
“…a major overhaul of Democracy is required…”
Well, Green IS the new Red!
I won’t bother with a link because things are too confusing but …
China has a huge middle class. By most estimates it’s bigger than the entire population of America and Canada combined. It’s growing. It enjoys a lifestyle way better than the minimum wage French. Grinding poverty is living memory for the older cohort of the middle class, much like the grinding poverty of the dustbowl is for my parents. They won’t willingly go back to that condition.
China’s GDP is creeping up on the EU and the US. Never mind 2/3 of China’s population for the time being. It’s too late for the green lunatics to do anything about China. What rock have they been hiding under anyway. Their bloviations remind me of the yapping of Princess Fenrir the 1023rd expressing her indignation at whatever.
You know the next thing to put to him.
You need to lead by example and have a wage and life-style less than the French minimum-wage worker starting right now. You can’t ask of others what you are not willing to do. You actually can’t even have a voice in climate change debate unless you take that step.
As I have said many times the easy way to bring this all home is green tax the living hell out of guilted inner city yuppies. Every cent taxed goes towards green schemes of their choice.
I want Valentin, like all such hypocrites to curtail their CO2 emissions – by stopping exhaling immediately! Don’t these fools know what they are breathing out? Mindless drivel by an unbelievable hypocrite!
These green guys are living on high level, use airplanes , big cars and drink champaign, often financed by tax and request people to change their live and give up all the positive developments of the last 70 years in Europe What a nonsense, because there is no scientific prove of there opinions and public shouting
The Greens are declaring themselves a new Planetary Royalty. What a farce!
I wonder what his position is on the standard of living for millions of Africans?
Aren’t Africans the new Europeans and many minimum wage earners in France?
Is there a place I can contribute to the cost of his ticket to China? I agree it would be great for him to break this news in person. My suggestion is not to worry about a round trip.
From the article: “Can democracy, human rights and the rule of law survive the climate meltdown if it can’t prevent it?”
What climate meltdown?
2) Can democracy, human rights and the rule of law survive the climate meltdown if it can’t prevent it?
Paragraph 2 of the statement above asks about surviving the ‘CLIMATE MELTDOWN’. I have a Science degree and have some understanding of the subject, but the ONE thing I cannot get my head around is the regularly mentioned Emergency or Crisis and now Meltdown. WHAT is going to occur to make this happen (and when)?
I note that CO2 is increasing in the atmosphere but not what I would consider at an alarming rate, and even if it did would (or could) this create a Meltdown? Has this ever, in Earth’s history, occurred?
So, can someone much more informed than myself, give me a clue as to how this Emergency/Crisis/Meltdown will come about (and when – this century or this millennia)?
Recently watched the video below on the End Permian Mass Extinction 250 million years ago. Its interesting until you get to his conclusion: this is what we face if we don’t become 15th C peasants next week to reduce CO2. Similar messages in all sorts of geology and paleontology lectures, at which point I turn them off.
The arrogance of these people is just breathtaking.
And the “peak oil” canard again? Haven’t they learned from reality?
Something tells me we’ll see Cold Fusion before we see Peak Oil
“Can democratic infrastructures react quickly enough to prevent the climate meltdown”
The five year annual average cooling degree-day value near Paris over the past five years is 566. In 2017 the total cooling degree-days were 520, in 2018 it was 735, and in 2019 it was 584. This does not indicate a current climate meltdown in France. 2018 was certainly a hot summer in France but 2017 and 2019 were just about normal.
When and how are all these politicians coming up with an imminent “climate meltdown”? Do they never actually venture outside at all in the summer?
This highlights the problem we have with the greens and green thinking: They cannot gasp the basic economic principle that, in a given area, further technological development and efficiencies leads to reduced consumption of natural resources, not increased consumption.
Today the wealthiest countries really are the “greenest” countries. Trying to turn back the clock is not the answer to the greens’ perceived problems. The world was not actually the perfect Garden of Eden before humans. Without too much effort, we could indeed make it better in very many ways. To do that we need abundant cheap energy to do it. Wilfully making energy more expensive is anti-human. Yes we can be viewed as the curators of this planet, but we won’t fulfill any destiny by shooting ourselves in both feet.
Weird that China would build city after city their people can’t afford to live in!
Someday the “brilliant” people in the CCP will recognize the disparity and realize that wasting so much of their industrial might is just stupid!
Or maybe not!
I think this craziness is a consequence of too much surplus cash.
It’s not that people can’t afford to live in the empty cities, the biggest problem is the buildings are fake, made of cardboard, and structurally incredibly dangerous. It’s all a giant Ponzi scheme – nobody dares look too closely or everyone loses everything.
I always thought of it as a way for them to claim reaching Peak CO2 early. Create vacant cities and electrify them with Coal Power then claim to have peaked CO2 several years early, regardless of a lack of both demand and necessity
re: “Someday the “brilliant” people in the CCP”
No doubt there are brilliant ppl in the so-called Chinese Communist Party, for to succeed in China in business party membership, per se, is probably required, whether or not you really embrace the communist ideology.
I think the real beef is with the actual communists in China, what we have, for decades now, called the Chinese communists, or Chicoms for short … so why are we using a term (CCP) that soft-peddles and misdirects where the ‘ire’ of the free world ought to be focused (onto the Chicoms)?
RE: “The only assumption needed here is the belief that decoupling cannot happen or will not happen fast enough ”
Uhmmmm…. That isn’t the only assumption you made, Valentin! Let’s go back to your first irrational assumption. “…the climate meltdown and societal collapse foreseen…” You started with irrational fear, delusion, and fear mongering and tried to use THAT to justify the destruction of democracy and human society. False assumptions and irrational fears inevitably lead to disaster. You need professional help with your mental health issues. This is not a personal attack, Valentin. It is a personal plea to get help, before you harm yourself and others.
Ignorance aside, he’s right. Fortunately for the Chinese people their leaders have no intention of going down
the CO2 suicide path and nor are they expected to by the UN, Globalists, or Ecoloons. How China has been spared the CO2 shame should be a lesson to everyone about the politics that drives AGW.
..they intinctively know that its CO2 wot feeds ’em!
We can see the effects of the corona virus. We can see no sign of the tipping point that is now more than three years overdue so should be spectacularly up the curve by now.
Perhaps it is the climate scientists who need to learn from the corona virus what a tipping point curve looks like as clearly they are too ignorant and narrowly educated to have learnt such basics. I still have my heating on and climate change was not correctly predicted so to me three strikes and you are out applies to them as much as any other scam artist.
I know he said “half-forced, half-controlled de-growth”, but I somehow think he really meant “pre-planned, fully-forced de-growth”. Must be my reading comprehension…?
Just imagine the lefty outrage if President Trump had said this or anything close…
Funny isnt it that their position so often distills down to lecturing aspirational people that they cant have what others have. Control, denial, superiority.
Well, we certainly have some battle lines being drawn for how Eastasia, Eurasia and Oceana form into the 3 major Orwellian geographical super states.
The breath-taking arrogance of Valentin Dupouey, head of communications for the European Greens, is typical of the French who think that their country has some god-given right to denigrate and overlord the World’s longest continual civilisation in China. Fortunately, it is beyond the control of these Green Lunatics to do anything about China’ rise and rise.
This arrogant guy could be wiped out by “chinese” corona
“If we want to reduce our CO2 emissions, we need to decrease our GDP. ”
So basically these ‘Greens’ are confessing that the ‘Green Economy’ and ‘Green Jobs’ are an open lie.
Congrats to finally confessing to what we have all known for years.
Well worth a read is the recently published 2019 BP Energy Outlook.
https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/energy-economics/energy-outlook/bp-energy-outlook-2019.pdf
Have a look at the chart on page 12 and think about how well the developing world will accept the premise that they should stay poor.
And also the projections on carbon taxes required to achieve this Brave new world, shown on page 30.
The US will have to go from $5/t to $200/t. France, which has had year long riots over carbon taxes (currently $50/t) which the ongoing increases were suspended indefinitely.
The Warmest Greens just don’t get it, they will never get it because the climate is not their aim, their aim is World communism.
Since the aim of the warmists greens and socialists is world domination and the elimnation of the human race I propose we start off by eliminating all warmists, greens and socialists once that done we can reevaluate.
“And if, as I increasingly believe, the only solution will be a half-planned, half-forced degrowth:”
will be just another half-a*sed idea.
This person sounds like he has never had a real job.
In Roman times it was give them bread and circuses,
In more recent times it was keep them alarmed with an endless scare of demons and hobgoblins.
The endless scare tactic seems to be the modis operandi.
So now one has to take everything with a pinch of salt.
Democracy should be abolished altogether, and I should be raised to the position of Emperor.
“we need to be able to say to a Chinese average citizen that he will never be able to reach the material lifestyle of a French minimum-wage worker.”
And the average Chinese citizen will say “Oh, deary me. That’s a bit of a disappointment. Ah, well, I’ll just have to try to be born French in my next incarnation.”
Really? That’s like being re-born as Bosley’s jockstrap!
I listened to a most interesting calculation recently on the commercial expectation of the Green New Deal and the EU equivalent zero-carbon bill. US GDP per head per annum in calculated to be a bit over $300.00 A similar calculation for the major EU countries put them all in the third-quater of the 1800’s.
I wonder how we could start a movement demanding the the Green leaders be transported into a wilderness area with only what was available in 1860, and have them show the rest of us, the deplorables, how to get by. Absolutely nothing post-1860 to be allowed, although, if they set up viable businesses, they could trade with the outside world for other 1860-level goods.
After all, leaders are there to lead, and show example.
“We will need to decide which needs and desires we want to live without first and which ones we want to safeguard. You can’t have a starter, main dish and dessert anymore.”
It would be interesting to spend a day in the company of Mr Dupouey to see which of his needs and desires he has chosen to live without. And then go with him to wherever he goes to eat and see which courses he has eliminated from his meals.
“We need to be able to tell a French minimum-wage worker that his lifestyle is not compatible with the planet’s boundaries”
How much does Mr Dupouey earn in a year and what does he do with his excess? (The difference between the French minimum wage and what he earns).
re “We will need to decide which needs and desires we want to live without first and which ones we want to safeguard. You can’t have a starter, main dish and dessert anymore.”
I’ve got a ‘wild’ one (question) for Mr Dupouey – where does s e x (more the act than the gender, but both for the purposes of discussion) fall on that spectrum of ‘needs and wants’? And will he propose the ‘one-child China model’? AND what s e x will be selected for that child?
Activists and Experts do not equate to wisdom and good leadership or policies. These propagandists and their followers are led around by the nose with shallow fallacies of feel-good moral superiority and appeal to authority.
Any socialist agenda like this better hope for some measure of positive GDP to fund and maintain their Master Plan.
Idiots.