COP25 – Madrid. After rioting and civil unrest in Chile, the intended location of COP-25, Madrid, Spain agreed to take on the challenge of hosting some 20,000 climate change bureaucrats for the 25th meeting of the Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). #GretaThunberg is taking a yacht there, crossing the Atlantic in stormy wintertime. The climate confab takes place December 2-13, 2019. The ‘climateers’ plan to implement the Paris Agreement “rule book” and there’s a push for a global carbon tax law. We take a look at what Canadians are already paying in carbon tax equivalents on federal and provincial fuel taxes – and what the rest of the world pays in carbon taxes. What would a carbon tax law mean for Canada and other democracies. Please read our rebuttal to the UN Climate Panel’s recent IPCC SR15 report:
Any carbon taxes mean restraint on any economy throughout the world. The purpose of these carbon taxes is to restrain the US economy and after restrain the world. The US is always first because they have the biggest economy. It’s never environmental. It’s always political because everything regarding man is always political.
+1
Politics is a process not an issue but I get your intent; it’s actually an ideological issue
Pedantic and unhelpful.
The UN has been searching for ways to directly tax the US for decades now.
Perhaps President Trump will reduce US voluntary contributions, about 30% of UN budget, to zero if they get away with a tax aimed at us.
@RR Bingo!
If I ruled the World….
What’s next? Darth Vader showing up and pinching the air? They want a global government, do they? They should be careful what they wish for. They might get it… and not like it…..
Where does the tax money end up?
On previous experience it seems that a lot of it ends up in Mercedes and Harrods bank accounts, via the people who are supposed to use it to help their economies.
Just more reason to secede from Ottawa.
“Give is your money, and give us control, and we will take care of you.” Since of course we can’t be trusted to spend our money wisely, nor to make good decisions.
– Well I feel that the U.N. I.P.C.C. demanding $122 trillion to save the earth is perfectly reasonable, and they should be given it – but only if they’ll take Zimbabwe dollars at par.
What would a UN sanctioned Global Carbon Tax mean for the Self-Rule form of government known as Democracy? The End…
It would mean that a globalised governing group would have the ability to override any laws passed by any Autonomous Country for what the few overseers view as “Best for everyone” regardless of what their individual Governments and populace vote for within their borders
The EU is a great example of what you describe, and it is crumbling.
Can it please crumble by – say – next Tuesday.
Then we could have a proper election – not about Clowns and Brexit!
Auto
and what the rest of the world pays in carbon taxes…
..the vast majority gets paid
The truth is slowly coming to light. It’s not about temperature, it’s all about wealth redistribution.
Not even much “wealth distribution”. It is a donation to the pockets of wealthy people running the Council of Parties. VERY little will get transferred anywhere south of the Mediterranean except for the tyrants running the governments.
I think the Canadian carbon tax is in trouble. The Prime Minister and the woman who should be the Prime Minister have been trying to build bridges and patch up relationships with the provincial premiers who oppose the carbon tax.
Three premiers have banded together to support the development of small modular reactors as an alternative to the carbon tax. link My guess is that, given the current political situation, the Prime Minister will have to agree.
The carbon tax is a job ki11er*. Wind and solar are job ki11ers. The reincarnation of the nuclear industry could create a lot of jobs. Nuclear power could work whereas renewables won’t.
*trying to avoid moderation.
I am afraid you are wrong about Trudeau. He will doubledown on the stupid taxes. We are in for an awful amount of hurt.
I dunno. He needs Albertans to keep paying taxes to fund Quebec until he can funnel enough immigrants out West to make the provinces there vote Liberal.
I don’t see secession happening soon, but the more he damages the Western economy and culture, the faster it will come.
No, Turdeau is going full carbon. You should look at whom all his advisers are and their professional and personal affiliations.
They intend to ‘keep it in the ground, ‘stranded assets’ and all that. They are hard core.
Then Alberta will secede, because it will have no other choice.
Promise you’ll give up free health care and we’ll round up some modern finians to help.
I hate those moderation inducing words. Completely stupid. Even the word “sk1ll” with the k-word embedded in it will trigger Anthony’s and WP’s moderation settings. Dumb.
Dumb beyond belief.
And of course, nobody checks the bit bucket for 12 hours and by then our comment is obscure since everyone has moved onto the next story. 3-4 articles a day used to be about the right amount of posts a day here…5-6 a day is too much since I do try and read every story and comments. But I do look forward to the changes coming soon to WUWT. I hope it is a better reader/commenter experience and with an edit feature, and perhaps even been able to block the comments from those that you don’t ever want to read. And somehow to identify new comments. WordPress seems to be stuck in 1986 DOS. Just my 2 cents worth…
“and perhaps even been able to block the comments from those that you don’t ever want to read. And somehow to identify new comments.”
No need to block certain commenters. If you don’t appreciate their comments, then just skip over them as you go down the list.
Being able to identify new comments is one of the more important upgrades we could get. When we have 200 or 300 comments in a thread, it is a real pain to try to wade through the entire list trying to find new comments. The previous software would highlight new posts in a different color making it very easy to scroll down through the comments and find the new comments.
For really long articles, a way to skip down to the start of comments would be nice.
Trump should insist that the US will not foot the UN bill for any of these hypocritical climateer circle jerks.
US exits Paris next November, so unless Trump loses and the incoming democrats decide to reverse the exit the US isn’t involved in any payments because it isn’t in the system.
And if the US is not in the system there are insufficient funds for it to operate. Note that China has a complete pass as does India and both are recipients of the ‘Green Fund’.
Just because we aren’t a party to the agreement doesn’t mean the UN won’t charge their vacation expenses to us.
Too right Lattitude.
We’re constantly regaled with the fact that 196 or however many countries have signed up to the Paris Agreement.
But what’s always never mentioned is that 150 or so of them will be takers, not contributors.
Why wouldn’t any country sign up for $millions of obligation- free money?
This rebuttal is concise and well written. I’ll pass it on!
It’s never been about the climate – it’s always been a false front for the totalitarian ambitions of the self-appointed Laurentian elite.
Canada can no longer afford to associate with these criminals.
THE LIBERALS’ COVERT GREEN PLAN FOR CANADA – POVERTY AND DICTATORSHIP
by Allan M.R. MacRae, B.A.Sc., M.Eng., October 1, 2019
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/01/the-liberals-covert-green-plan-for-canada-poverty-and-dictatorship/
Rumor has it globalists have some strange beliefs, evidenced by the Arch of Baal popping up in various meeting places, among other proofs. And this particular time really stood out..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t7QD-CKUPw
SEPTEMBER 19, 2016: Arch of Baal” erected in New York City
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/09/19/justin-trudeau-praised-un_n_12093658.html
SEPTEMBER 19, 2016: Justin Trudeau Hailed At UN in New York As ‘Example’ To The World
Consider the fun fact that carbon is 6 protons, 6 neutrons & 6 electrons, the human body is carbon-based and these crazies intend to replace cash with a carbon chip; and that Trudeau shares a Christmas birthday with Nimrod and was born to be PM, contrary to popular belief… but I’m sure it all means nothing.
Just poverty and dictatorship?
I think we’re going to freeze and starve to death in the dark up here above the 49th parallel.
Even the Indians and the Eskimos can’t survive here without hydrocarbons anymore.
Trump should have sent out-going SecEnergy Rick Perry to the COP to give a keynote US-delegation presentation on US Energy Dominance and the benefits of Freedom Gas to reducing emissions from the power and transportation sectors.
+ 1.Make a mockery out of lying,stealing & trying to put us into socialism, globalism or any other ism that takes away our money & FREEDOM!
The irony is that curtailing the use of fossil fuels will have no significant effect on climate. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas, has been increasing faster than CO2 and molecule for molecule WV is about 5 times more effective than CO2 at warming.
I’ve agonized over where I could go to live the rest of my life. I watched the Canadian election and was sure we would have a conservative government after the complete disgrace and ham-handedness of our drama teacher-led ‘liberal’ government. How in hell did he bumble back in, even with a minority!
The answer to that my friends is the reason for my wanting out. I don’t know these people. I don’t know how a proud independent spirited, creative populace was so vulnerable to brainwashing by the néomarxiste hordes of a Europe in steep cultural, intellectual and economic decline. Why are Canada, New Zealand and Australia emulating the death throes of an irredeemable unwell Europe?
Why can’t those once great countries of Europe, that gave the world its greatest civilization ever, let go of the mouldering marxist fungi that has destroyed hundreds of millions of people, laid waste to trillions worth of resources. What is the fascination?
Realistically the only choices seem to be United States, India and Russia and I’m concerned that the US somehow isn’t sufficiently aware of how at risk it is. It came too close in the last election and another generation of dumbed down designer-brained graduates could put the phillistines in power forever. Trump only has 5 yrs and then he’s gone. He will win this election handily, even though he doesnt put his best foot forward (Geez Donald). Are they grooming a replacement? Is there a replacement to be had? Here is the area where a world war footing should be developed – not for climate change.
Who is John Galt?
There are many John Galt, but I suppose Gary refers to this John Galt:
Ref.: Wikipedia
Carl, “Who is John Galt?” is from Ayn Rand’s book “Atlas Shrugged”, and represents the call on the producers and wealth-generators of the world to go on strike. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt
Atlas Shrugged-Ayn Rand
Poland or Hungary?
“Realistically the only choices seem to be United States, India and Russia and I’m concerned that the US somehow isn’t sufficiently aware of how at risk it is.”
Well, wait until after the Nov. 2020 election and then we will all know whether the US is sufficiently aware of the risk of leftist government.
From what I can determine Donald’s replacement will be named Ivanka.
“…the US, India and Russia”?
I’m intrigued by your top three choices. How do Russia and India qualify?
The Super-rich seem to have been choosing Patagonia for some time now. Of course we never see the fine details – how do they select and control the small armies of soldiers, pilots, and navigators required to get them there and keep them and their estates safe upon arrival?
I guess some are also placing side bets on the off-planet gambit.
Switzerland is probably a good bet for the only moderately rich – maybe $25-50 millions in liquid assets?Their government is reported to stock 3 months supply of food, water and medicine, including coffee, for all of the population in nuclear bomb shelters. But they’re more picky about whom they let in than the Argentines, it seems.
But a good CME might blast away everybody’s plans.
Slightly off topic… but in one takes the Temp/CO2 data graph from
and then draws the best straight line through the Temp data and then through the CO2 data… that only shows about a 1C change in the average temperature from 4000ppm down to 200ppm. Doesn’t that prove that the TCS for CO2 is way less than 1C???
This morning local time 0800 (utc+1) a police H135 chopper is reported flying low speed joyride circles at 3’000 feet and hovering at 3’500 feet over the convention center of Madrid. Already 1 hour in the process and counting.
Has the climate deteriorated to the point where cops support the COP ?
Unless they come down with the “blue flu”, the cops have no choice but to do what the higher-ups tell them to do. It’s the higher-ups (IE the countries political leaders) that support the COP.
Right ! Grandfather used to say: -The handle of the axe that fells trees is made of wood but so is the handle of the hammer that forged the axe.
This said I’m not a rotary wing driver, however I don’t see how joyriding slow circles and hovering over populated areas for more than 1h45m qualifies as safe occupation.
Er, how does taxing the planet “save” the planet 😐 Its always tax tax and more tax, stealing my hard earned money isn’t going to save the polar bears (sarc)
Where does the tax money go, the 100 billion that the developed countries will pay, is anybody keeping a track of where the money is spent?
“Where does the (climate) tax money go …”
Administration, jamborees, climate propaganda, scientific/activist funding and various showcase projects.
All worthy causes – if you are a Green, Marxist vegan.
Carbon taxes are thievery, plainly and simply. It is the theft of money from the fossil-fuel and free-market based economy, and paying it to the illegitimate, anti-democratic, and energy-grid destabilizing “green” economy. The effect is a double-whammy against fossil fuels. The idea is to coerce people, industry and governments to choose the “green” economy by fiat. This has (and is having) disasterous economic consequences, lowering living standards worldwide.
It would be a mistake to view them as “just another tax”. They are an abomination which will do nothing but hurt humanity, and should be opposed with every fiber of our being.
What’s hilarious if you go to some of these Green websites is, they talk about a Carbon Bubble in the financial markets in terms of coal and oil assets going unused as the world shifts to Green energy. The real Carbon Bubble are the fools in the financial industry investing in Carbon Credit markets. Once enough countries end up scrapping Carbon Taxes nobodies going to buy those useless, now worthless Carbon Credits.
Carbon taxes are the result when mentally ill people get control over public policy.
The ignorance of the COP is that they truly believe Americans will stand by passively and accept this illegal tax.
Where does the tax money end up?
On previous experience it seems that a lot of it ends up in Mercedes and Harrods bank accounts, via the people who are supposed to use it to help their economies.
An excellent report, especially considering the fact that decarbonization would cost about 200 times the alleged “benefits”.
Just to demonstrate the absurdity of a “carbon tax” of $27,000 per tonne: the average person exhales about 2 liters per breath, which contains about 3 volume % CO2, about 12 times per minute, or the equivalent of 0.72 liters per minute of pure CO2. At normal body temperature (37 C), one gram-mole of air has a volume of about 25.4 liters, so that a person would exhale 0.72/25.4 = 0.0283 gmol/minute = 1.25 grams per minute of CO2, which works out to about 1.8 kg per day.
If a carbon tax of $27,000 per tonne = $27 / kg were levied, people would be fined about $49 per day, or $17,885 per year, for the privilege of continuing to breathe. Since the median household income in the USA is currently about $65,000 per year, the median family of four would spend its entire income on carbon taxes without ever lighting a candle or using any electrical or fossil-fuel-powered appliance.
The cost of this insane scheme will literally leave us breathless.
Nah just breathe half as much on a per minute basis
/snark
Leaving the UN and creating a new institution would be the best solution.
Not sure what a “carbon tax” is:
– Is it anything done explicitly in search of absolution for carbon sins?
– Or any tax targeted at fossil fuels?
– Or tax on users of fossil fuels?
Interesting – Madrid, completely unprepared can afford to host COP25:
Youth unemployment Spain:
“In 2014, 57.9% of young people in Spain were unemployed. … In 2012, Spain had the highest rate of long-term youth unemployment (more than 40%) of the countries in the euro zone. At the end of 2016, the rate of unemployment among young people was 42.91%, 3.3% lower than the previous year (46.2%).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
Youth unemployment in Spain – Wikipedia”
https://www.google.com/search?q=youth+unemployment+spain&oq=youth+unemployment+&aqs=chrome.
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“Youth Unemployment Rate in Greece is expected to be 33.50 percent by the end of this quarter, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations. … In the long-term, the Greece Youth Unemployment Rate is projected to trend around 30.50 percent in 2020, according to our econometric models.”
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-huawei&sxsrf=ACYBGNTZXugcDJT081AoxrS_gYoJW3qgRw%3A1575774259074&ei=M2jsXYWVBKyrmwXtl4DAAg&q=youth+unemployment+Greece&oq=youth+unemployment+Greece&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.
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Youth unemployment France:
https://www.google.com/search?q=youth+unemployment+france&oq=youth+unemployment+france+&aqs=chrome.
It said that nearly one in four young people in France is unemployed. This figure is referring to the unemployment rate for French youth (ages 15–24), which the OECD reports as 24.6 percent. … As a result, the employment rate for French youth is 28.3 percent, compared to 50.1 percent for the United States. Oct 29, 2017
cepr.net › blogs › the-myth-of-high…
The Myth of High Youth Unemployment in France | Beat the Press | CEPR
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To take with a gran of salt:
http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/the-myth-of-high-youth-unemployment-in-france
OTOH – There’s to uphold a tradition:
https://www.google.com/search?q=madrid+culture+and+customs&oq=Madrid+culture+and+&aqs=chrome.