David Attenborough warns of ‘social unrest’ due to climate change

Climate Derangement Syndrome?™ HT/Sommer

137 thoughts on “David Attenborough warns of ‘social unrest’ due to climate change

  1. He’s right in some respects, just not in the manner he thinks. The unrest will come as a response to governments imposing idiotic economy-killing “solutions” to the non-problem of Climate Change. People don’t want to be part of the noble 6+ billion that must die to make way for the “Green Utopia” these people want to forge.

    • Actually, if you set off a policy bomb and then combine that with Keynesian prescription for stimulus to save the economy you get a perpetual motion policy machine to spend all the assets down….thereby saving the Utopian environment.

    • Would someone—anyone—PLEASE define quantitatively what they mean by the phrase “climate change”?

      “If you can’t define something you have no formal rational way of knowing that it exists. Neither can you really tell anyone else what it is. There is, in fact, no formal difference between inability to define and stupidity.” — Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

      • But the science IS quantitatively defined:

        – in steps to decarbonice electrification

        – in years that steps follow

        – in financial impact that steps produce

    • It may or may not be a non problem but the important question is whether it is man made or not. I still find it hard to believe that while if I put two pans on the cooker and turn on the back one instead of the front to my surprise it heats the back pan and not the front one. Why to my surprise. Well climate science says it is beyond question that fossil fuel use causes the temperature rises in the Arctic and the fossil fuel use there is near zero as it is Europe using the fossil fuel. What is true on a global scale should also work on a small one, surely.

    • If you want to see real social unrest, ban the use of all fossil fuels. The social unrest and causalities that would follow would be magnitudes greater than anything climate change could cause in the foreseeable future, even if you factor in the possibility of sharknadoes.

  2. He’s takes solace in the effectively brainwashed children which are the “electorate of tomorrow”.

    • The problem they have is as most of them get older and learn to recognize snake-oil salesmen.

      • It’s a sad fact that science has shown that our mental ability peaks in mid-life and trails off markedly in the 2nd half of life. The arrogant claims of the elderly that they and their view should be respected just because they are older is equivalent to claims for the other end of the age spectrum. They just aren’t smart enough to realise it.

        • As an elderly person I take issue with your comment and the idea that I am no longer smart enough to realize, or realise if you insist, that… sorry, what is your point?

      • not to mention the loss of wide spread of freedoms they currently enjoy to ‘save the planet ‘
        For its not a ‘green world ‘ they want to create but a very grey joyless one .

    • No. The heat content of the atmosphere is 0.1% of the heat content of the oceans. The oceans heat and cool the atmosphere. To call the atmosphere the tail of the dog is to over-emphasize its its importance. Even the docked tail of a mastiff is a larger portion of the whole dog than the atmosphere is of the climate system.

    • No, no, no!!!

      Politicians spouting hot air are responsible for ALL warming events, including warming the oceans!! They make glaciers melt. They provide more heat than a solar furnace. When they speak, coastal cities get flooded! Dogs and cats sleep together!!

      The total volume of CO2 produced by politicians is higher than anything mechanical objects ever produced! They aren’t called gasbags for nothing, you know.

      I thought everyone knew that.

      • Good comments, thank you Walter and Sara.

        David Attenborough, color me skeptical on your hypothesis.

        Here is a summary of the bizarre “science” of the CO2 priesthood:

        CO2 is the “Miracle Molecule”.

        Increasing atmospheric CO2 causes:

        – warming where it is warming

        – and cooling where it is cooling

        – and no change where there is no change in temperature

        – and wilder weather when that happens

        – and less extreme weather when that happens

        – and no change where there is no change in weather extremes

        – and human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria…

        My formal review of this hypo follows:

        “Mr. Attenborough, what you just said is the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone is this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

    • Wrong. The air in contact with the ocean, UV long wave radiation, does not penetrate water. The ocean is warmed by direct sunlight, short wave radiation, down to 100 metres. It’s got NOTHING to do with carbon dioxide.

  3. There’s already significant social unrest owing to the fear of climate change due to CO2 emissions that’s so absurdly large, it’s precluded by the laws of physics. It should be an embarrassment to the field that confirmation bias was allowed to supersede Conservation of Energy. Perhaps this is why they can’t fix it?

  4. I found it interesting (concerning too) that immediately after the Attenborough video came a string of Canadian videos. All were about how climate change is going to do us in, and how we have to work hard against it. Juxtaposed against this is the article posted by CTM a few days ago about how the global news mainstream is organizing a concerted effort of climate propaganda. I now need little proof of the intent and conspiracy.

  5. David Attenborough has the mellifluous tones of a marvelous narrator.
    Unfortunately, he either lacks the intelligence and common sense to recognize he narrative talents are being used as the classic socialists ‘useful tool’ or he knows this full well and approves because it supports his personal socialist agenda.

    • J Mac
      He knows full well it’s false and always has! He wants the population vastly reduced, urgently (more room for his beloved animals).

      • And plenty of room for all his intellectual Socialist elitist friends, who naturally won’t be affected by the impoverisation of the public at large, after all, places like Goa, the Maldives, the Carribean, etc, use to be the preserve of wealthy privilaged elites like him! Still waiting for an answer to my question posed a long time ago, where population reduction is concerened, will they plump for ordinary natural gas or go for that new fangled fracked variety? 😉

    • Then take places of massive unrest like Palestine and Syria, does anyone really think acting on climate change is somehow going to solve those problems.

  6. There will be social unrest all right. Fuelled by those who stand to gain, financially or in gaining power, through climate change fear mongering. Those like Dave himself.

    • Got a nice little earner there now. Certainly beats wading through Amazon swamps sneaking around dangerous animals.

  7. Please read carefully Mr. Attenborough. Once in a lifetime opportunity to demonstrate a climate related unrest event.

    Take your mobile circus to Bottrop (Ruhr region, Germany). Nice city, no kidding. Used to be a coal mining kingpin.

    Find a pub, any pub, they’re also called “Stammtisch”.

    Write your blood group on your forearm with a sharpie. Then expose your climate arguments in German.

    Too chicken Mr. climate warrior ?

    • It’s comforting to hear that there are climate realists in Germany. I was long under the impression that the Germans were total climate alarmists. Comforting indeed.

    • Germany and most other EU countries will be Muslim in 20 – 30 years. That’s what I call Climate Change.

      • Absolutely – there’s such a monumental demographic transformation underway it seems like every other issue is either a trivial sideshow or a purposeful distraction.

  8. For the last 20 or 30 years, people like David Attenborough have been telling us all about the horrible things that are going to happen in 20 to 30 years due to man-made climate change. To date, they have a record of being wrong almost 100% of the time.

    But that is not the worst of it. Their proposed solution to the make-believe problem is a form of global socialism; the economic system that has a nearly perfect record of producing the exact same horrible conditions they are warning us about.

    There must be some kind of mental disorder at play here.

    • Not a mental disorder – politics. Socialism to be exact. Environmentalism is just the new Trojan Horse.

    • You would think that someone over 90 would have direct experiences of these 20 – 30 “climate doom” predictions, but no, not one has come to pass. Not one!

  9. A stupid, stupid man.

    Let him explain 30 years of unchanged temperatures in the face of a 35% increase in CO2.

    Let him explain why a geologically LOW CO2 concentration represents a crisis.

    Let him explain why the LAST one degree increase in temperatures did not result in massive extinctions, whilst the NEXT 1 degree instinct will.

    Let him explain why having Europe and America lower their CO2 output (which the US already does), will have any effect on the rest of the world. These people seem to think that CO2 just lingers over the countries that produce it.

    What morons!

    • Anna
      You haven’t worked out that we are warming? Really? Which data set are you using? Coz you can take your pick… they all show warming. If you think DA is a moron maybe you best not look in the mirror next time you go past.

        • Patrick MJD
          “Sure from the little ice age, we know this.”
          Sad pathetic reasoning. Yo need to move on from the LIA. It was a poor excuse 30 years ago its weaker now.

      • Between 1940 and the end of the 1970’s the World was cooling despite increasing CO2 concentrations, and people like you were warning of an impending Ice Age.

      • Once again Simon indicates that he doesn’t bother to actually read the stuff he responds to.

        Let him explain why the LAST one degree increase in temperatures did not result in massive extinctions, whilst the NEXT 1 degree instinct will.

        • MarkW
          Show me a graph that shows warming since 1989. Not one drawn in crayon. You wont coz you can’t. Once again a hit and run comment. Once again all class. The ankle biter at WUWT.

      • Sorry Simon, there’s been no warming of the base climate for over two decades. Are you another one who still tries to imply a warming trend due to ENSO is climate?

        Your lies don’t work with people who understand the concepts of signal and noise.

        • Richard M
          “Your lies don’t work with people who understand the concepts of signal and noise.”

          She said 30 years. OK Einstein find me a data set that shows no warming since 1989.

      • Warming ====> Stop using fossil fuel and nuclear energy in Western countries.

        Did I miss something?

    • Silly old duffer Attenborough. A lifetime to build his reputation as a naturalist, a blink of an eye to destroy it as a misguided fanatic.

  10. A stupid, stupid man.

    Let him explain 30 years of unchanged temperatures in the face of a 35% increase in CO2.

    Let him explain why a geologically LOW CO2 concentration represents a crisis.

    Let him explain why the LAST one degree increase in temperatures did not result in massive extinctions, whilst the NEXT 1 degree instinct will.

    Let him explain why having Europe and America lower their CO2 output (which the US already does), will have any effect on the rest of the world. These people seem to think that CO2 just lingers over the countries that produce it.

    What morons!

  11. Sometimes I don’t know what Climate Change means. Does it mean the extreme weather we have not seen since the 1930? Is it just a catch phase for antropogenic climate change and were going to pretend that natural climate change does not exist. Sometimes it seems these people are living in a fantasy world where if we have faith in tackling climate change the world will be better. He even uses the word backsliding. What is he, a closet baptist?

    When we look at history we have natural climate change that ends up causing mass starvation every time we have a really major volcanic eruption. Maybe he worries about antropogenic climate change because it makes the world look a lot more controllable and safe than it is.

    The only social unrest he will get is when the middle and lower middle class rebel against the austerity that these people want to impose. Look at the Yellow vest movement. They think that they can get global unity by uniting us against a non existent catastrophe.

    The only problem that might be is sea level rise. All other problems such as catastrophic warming, species extinction, crop failures, and ocean acidification are based on junk science. At the slow rate of warming we have time to wait. If it gets above 5mm per year even I will admit that we need to do something. But that something better be nuclear rather than unreliable renewables.

    • Climate Change is easy.

      It means YOU are WRONG!

      Whenever you hear a report from our Social and Moral Elite, simply replace ‘Climate Change’ with ‘you are wrong’ in the transcript and you will get exactly the same original intent of the source speaker, but without all the abstract confusion.


    • Looks more like a repetitious pattern of seasonal melt with a very gradual reduction in overall coverage. Similar to what has been happening since the nadir of the LIA around 1680. No apparent abrupt melting is noticeable in the graph you link.

    • Funny. What I see is ice is just below average. What’s your point, Arctic ice melts in the NH summer?

    • You know that information is on a link under the WUWT Reference Pages at the top of this page. Skeptics are not afraid of valid data.

      Why send out to some wack site?

      BTW, can you define to yourself “abruptly” for your own understanding?

      I do not think it means what you think it means.

      No, I am not Inigo Montoya.

      • No, not “left tards.”

        Let’s not mock the mentally handicapped or the intellectually challenged by using the “tard” suffix.

        The people you are referring to are “left turds.”

    • Loydo, did you know East Netherlands (Europe) has experienced its coldest July day ever recorded with an overnight frost. on July 4/5th
      Was that climate change or was that weather? Clearly the previous weeks heat wave was climate change. We suffered so badly here in the UK with one day temperature over 80 deg C. Thankfully we survived….

        • I just wish C and F were a bit further apart on the keyboard, hey ho.
          Thanks for spotting the error. I could always blame heatstroke, it doesn’t get up to 80 deg F very often in the UK, despite the BBC’s scare mongering.

    • 20 years of ice increasing, 2 years of ice decreasing. Obviously this means that in a couple of years all the ice will be gone and we’re gonna die.

      • MarkW
        “20 years of ice increasing, 2 years of ice decreasing. ”
        You just make stuff up. Show us evidence for that statement.

    • The graph you linked shows that this year is very nearly the same as the last 4 years.
      What are you panicking about?

  12. Remember, he was a strong believer in the coming ice age of the 1970’s. And IMO was a major contributor in Bellamy’s departure from the BBC.

  13. It looks to me like Sir David is trying to foment social unrest in order to advance the climate change agenda rather than the (any) climate change leading to social unrest

    • Exactly. He’s letting his followers know that it’s ok to be violent in the name of climate alarmism, its justified.

      Marxists have always felt violence is justified.

  14. Wow. This guy is talking about people making sacrifices for the climate, while his airliner carbon footprint is even bigger than mine, and that’s saying something. Lead from the front, you duplicitous pos.

  15. It’s one thing to fight actual existential threats to humanity, but these people are only interested in 1) feeling smug and self righteous, 2) implementing socialism, 3) crony capitalism, and 4) wreaking havoc on society. Prove me wrong.

    • Let’s change point 3) into “cronyism”, shall we?
      There is already so much confusion over what capitalism essentially is. Cronyism is in many respects opposite, since it ultimately builds on coercive state-power.

  16. Emergency! Climate Change is causing an increase in….Alzheimer’s! At least it would seem so in this video clip.

    • If anyone wanted proof that working for the Bollox broadcasting parasitic oscillation company brought on senile dementia, look no further than those staring golf ball eyes every few seconds, – followed by the phrase “I’m alright”.

      Maybe they sat his bum on the anode of one of their microwave transmitters a bit too long and cooked what little grey matter there was still lurking trying to control Sir R A’s largely disconnected big mouth.

      All we need now is to have him & Teflon Tony put in the House of Lords,- a perfect new edition of “spitting image”.

  17. Like a stopped ,analogue ,clock Sir David is right.
    There will be social unrest because of Climate Change.
    When the pendulum swings on this mass hysteria,people will get even uglier.
    Having been browbeat about “The Sky is Falling” for decades and robbed,manipulated and abused by the most odious of humans, that being righteous virtue signallers,the general population is going to be less than kind,when they see the scam.
    Scams all have a life cycle and this Cult of Calamitous Climate is getting old.
    The payback in this one is going to be brutal,as we have been betrayed by our governments as they attempted to gain power and make taxing air normal.
    The bureaus will suffer and the more they moan the greater the cutting and burning.
    For most government “watchdogs” exist to prevent such abuses of the citizen, seeing how hopelessly they have failed and how easily they have been subverted into provoking mass hysteria in the public, means there is no reason to continue their existence.

    A career civil service has their fingerprints all over CAGW/CC.
    When that crashes and burns they go with it.
    The behaviour of these agencies in the aftermath of the CRU emails,showed all whose side these parasites are on.

    CAGW is evidence that government has declared war on the citizen.
    Hard to digest but there it is.

    • Career Civil Service is the closest thing to immorality possible. CC jobs never go away. In many Agencies there are Bureaus that duplicate efforts and others that work at cross purposes.

      Once a government program exists there will be supporters (or voting blocks) that lobby hard for its continuation and/or expansion…but never an equally concentrated effort to retire that program.

      The support naturally gets concentrated by the efforts of beneficiaries, and the opposition is dilute since each small program is just another 0.001% of overall government waste.

  18. “David Attenborough warns of ‘social unrest’ due to climate change”
    I know, he heard from his pet cheetah that the chimpanzees in London Zoo are demanding air conditioning!

    Seriously , that suitably unqualified expert Harrabin – the BBC’s so called Environmental Analyst, whatever that is, referred to Attenborough as a Climate Scientist. That’s how relevant and
    credible the BBC’s biased reporting of Climate Change is, and how much Attenborough should be believed!

  19. How can we persuade the electorate?

    Simple Mr A, by providing evidence instead of endless appeals to authority, fake graphs and simple arrogance.

  20. The thing to remember is David Attenborough is put forward as the voice of the BBC he is no scientist he is one of the dinosaurs from the days when the BBC had a reputation for balanced output, sadly long gone. Attenborough, is a shrewd operator. He has moved with the changing nature of the BBC. Unlike the BBCs own real scientist, David Bellamy who was sacked when he refused to promote the false human induced global warming story, Attenborough could see he had to get on board the new BBC agenda or be gone.
    So here we are, a man in his 90s who has spoken to camera longer than most, knows little of the science involved in global weather, and even less about global climate. He is the voice and face of the BBC’s false alarmism. It is sad he put career/income ahead of integrity, or maybe he is just too dim to know he is being used.
    A candidate for the BBC award, British Brainwashing Champion….

    • “Attenborough, is a shrewd operator.”

      He is a survivalist.

      “He has moved with the changing nature of the BBC. ”

      A survivalist will do what he has to do in order to survive.

  21. Most people who read this blog would agree with your position; most people who watch Blue Planet etc would agree with Attenborough, and of course Saint Greta T and (less so) Extinction Rebellion. They all love the planet and are terrified it is going to die … so they aren’t having children. Most of these people live in the western world which has an extremely low replacement birthrate any way. How do we reach the uncommitted in the west and the indifferent elsewhere; none of whom read this blog?

  22. David Attenborough says price of plane tickets should go UP “to save the environment”
    Multi-millionaire Attenborough confessed that “I’m afraid such a hike would hit poorer families the hardest.”
    How, exactly, pricing poorer people out of flying will “save the environment” was never explained.
    I wonder how does David Attenborough and his crew and the massive weight of all their equipment get to all the countries to make his programmes then travel all over them? Does he walk? swim? row? sail? bicycle?
    I’ll bet he has the carbon footprint of a small country, the hypocrite.

    • Attenborough is so out of touch with the lives of poor families. Only someone on expenses and able to come and go as he pleases, paid for by the licence fee payers, which (for now) is not him, by the way.
      When he claims, the poorer families will suffer most from a hike in airfares, he has no idea how offensive that is to those poorer families who can’t afford to even dream of flying.
      The BBC and its whole ethos of paying presenters £million/yr to just sit and speak for a few minutes each week, has got to stop.

  23. A lot of us can’t afford to cut back any more. Only those living high on the hog can afford to cut back. But they won’t.

    • There will come a time when ordinary people won’t have the choice because it won’t be a option to cut back, the cut backs will already have been made for us.

  24. Attenborough, one of Optimum Population Trust, OPT’s leading promoters, received the Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts prize on March 10, 2011, from Prince Philip, the RSA president.

    With Philip at his side, Attenborough stated:

    “We now realize that the disasters that continue increasingly to afflict the natural world have one element that connects them all—the unprecedented increase in the number of human beings on this planet,” as Malthus warned. But no one proposes the necessary measures to curb human population, which makes every problem worse. “Why this strange silence? … There seems to be some bizarre taboo around the subject…. There are over 100 countries whose combinations of numbers and affluence have already pushed them past the sustainable level…. It is tragic that the only current population policies in developed countries are, perversely, attempting to increase their birth rate, in order to look after the growing number of old people. The notion of ever more old people needing ever more young people, who will in turn grow old and need even more young people, and so on, ad infinitum, is an obvious ecological Ponzi scheme.”

    It is very odd that comments studiously avoid this obvious, in your face fostering of just plain genocide. The UN adopted OPT’s target of 4 billion, and OPT “estimated” the UK population should be 18 million, not 61 million.

  25. Gee. I hope climate change does not cause social unrest as there has never been any social unrest in the history of mankind to date.

  26. Create a beast called Anthropogenic Climate Change, knowing full well that our Sun has entered a phase shift. No better time to trot out the AGW beast to claim all things natural. I say old boy: here’s to strangling the peasants in taxes and lowering the price of tea!

  27. Add this to the clinical list of competency for evaluating the elderly.

    -can they feed themselves
    -can they dress themselves
    -do they engage in frequent climate change scare antics

  28. Wildlife in Africa and possible the rain forests will be gone by the time the climate crusades are re-evaluated to see what all happened during the one dimensional policy parade on CO2.

  29. David Attenborough has to support alarmist climate change or the BBC would fire him like they did with others. The BBC only employ alarmists or people that share their lefty agenda brain washing corporation.

    I thought the left wanted equality? Only thing they have been supporting is wasted money on things that would be better spent on achieving this goal, but instead creating a greater divide whether done intentionally or not.

    Higher energy prices from the climate scare are causing increasing number of people towards poverty, struggling to live and relying on food banks. There is your “social unrest” from climate change caused by ignorance.

  30. Addledborough is just another Malthusian, ‘up-his-own-inane-arse’, wannabe elitist who wishes a large section of the human population dead. Just a soft spoken fascist.

    Quotes –

    “We are a plague on the Earth. It’s coming home to roost over the next 50 years or so. It’s not just climate change; it’s sheer space, places to grow food for this enormous horde. Either we limit our population growth or the natural world will do it for us, and the natural world is doing it for us right now,” he told the Radio Times.

    “Attempting to solve famine in Africa by simply sending flour bags is “barmy””, Sir David Attenborough has said

    “We are a plague on the Earth. It’s coming home to roost over the next 50 years or so. It’s not just climate change; it’s sheer space, places to grow food for this enormous horde. Either we limit our population growth or the natural world will do it for us, and the natural world is doing it for us right now,” he told the Radio Times.

    Why anyone considers his anti-human ideas worthy or sane should reconsider, basically he says nature (and ‘we’ are all part of it) can not keep up with changes that humanity does. This is the BIG LIE! Nature is far more resilient than this over-publicized dork believes and voices.
    I wish he would go and talk to a polar bear in it’s natural habitat, and not just voice over the script he’s given in the comfort of an air-conditioned studio.

  31. Sir David told the Glastonbury festival crowd how excellent it was that the festival organizers had chosen to go plastic-free. The photos in this following report are marvelously entertaining…

    At least they picked their tents up! Campers leave pockmarked field after Glastonbury ends as droves begin clean-up of sea of bottles and food waste despite festival going ‘plastic-free’ (Daily Mail, 1 July)

    In his speech to thousands of fans from the Pyramid Stage, Sir David said: ‘There was one sequence in Blue Planet II which everyone seems to remember.

    ‘It is one in which we showed what plastic has done to the creatures that live in the ocean. It had an extraordinary effect and now this great festival has gone plastic-free.’

    …resulting in a vast sea of plastic garbage.

  32. Wrong. The air in contact with the ocean, UV long wave radiation, does not penetrate water. The ocean is warmed by direct sunlight, short wave radiation, down to 100 metres. It’s got NOTHING to do with carbon dioxide.

  33. Old boys who see the exit ramp looming in the distance often display the sort of behaviour demonstrated by Mr Attenborough. The difference between Attenborough and old uncle Tommy, or Dave, is that he has a very public presence, so will be placed in the alarmist shop window along with prophetic (?) children and others to whom robust questions will be ruled out by the desire to not be seen as a nasty person 🙂

  34. “Old boys who see the exit ramp looming in the distance often display the sort of behaviour”..

    Attenborough is in good company.
    First we have someone defending population control & claiming ideas which ended up in forced sterilisation in the USA..

    Before we had that vile Jim’ll fix it” Savile bloke who did his best to do the opposite by molesting kids all over the UK, aided and abetted by the BBC, who also fronted Rolf Harris.

    We had Ed Heath,and some other of the nastiest like Cyril Smith going after kids…no worries…

    It’s strange they all end up having a “sir”in front of their names, then they drop dead before justice can do anything about it.
    Most of these unsavouriest of characters were either personally defended by the BBC or a combination of the BBC and the UK establishment.
    What is going to pop out of the woodwork when Attenborough kicks the bucket I wonder?

  35. This note was written in response to the passing of Net Zero CO2 emission policy in the UK House of Commons.
    When will people realise that any CO2 reduction policy should also be seen in a longer-term context:
    · The modern short pulse of beneficial Global warming stopped ~20 years ago and recent global temperatures are now stable or declining.
    · According to reliable Ice Core records the last millennium 1000 – 2000 AD was the coldest of our current Holocene interglacial and the world had already been cooling quite rapidly since before Roman times, in fact since ~1000 BC.
    · At 11,000 years old, our Holocene interglacial, responsible for all man-kind’s advances, from living in caves to microprocessors, is coming to its end.
    · The weather gets worse in colder times.
    · The world will very soon, (on a geological time scale), revert to a true glaciation, again eventually resulting in mile high ice sheets over New York.

    The prospect of even moving in a cooling direction is something to be truly scared about, both for the biosphere and for man-kind.

    Spending any effort, without true cost benefit analysis and full due diligence, let alone at GDP scale costs, trying to stop the UK’s 1% of something that has not been happening for 3 millennia seems monumentally stupid.



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