Observing glaciers in “real time”

But according to Lord Monckton (see his post of last week), the temperature was in equilibrium for 80 years between 1850 to 1930, such that all warming is post 1930 and hence nearly all warming is during the period of manmade CO2 emissions.

Lord Monckton considers that whatever was driving the planet out of the LIA had come to an end by 1850, and there was no further 19th Century recovery, notwithstanding that even Phil Jones conceded the warming through to 1880.

I tried to point out some of the dangers behind his paper which throws the baby out along with the bath water.

Took a close look at your Holocence Climate Optimum map. You didn’t source it, though it comes from Wikipedia here:

You have superimposed the black line from that chart at the top of the post and misleadingly named the end of it as ‘present day’, even though the data stops in 1950 (the ‘present’ in ‘before present’ by convention). We can tell this because they have marked temperatures as of 2004 on the right y-axis of original chart, which I see you have edited out of your representation.

As can be seen from the original chart, temperatures relative to mid 20th century in 2004 were already above the level during the period that you label the “Climatic Optimum”. They have warmed further since, of course.

Jim, the GLAMOS data will probably go the way of the ARGOS buoys – ignored until they figure out some way to “adjust” the inconvenient facts.

Rapid ablation!

Join the discussion…There are three methods of heat transfer. They are conduction, convection, and radiant heat. Heat transfer to or from the earth can only be done by radiant. All material contains heat and is radiating it to cooler surfaces or absorbing it from warmer surfaces. The difference is the heat gain or loss of the material.
The earth gains heat radiated from the sun and loses heat it radiates to outer space, called black sky radiation. Outer space is considered absolute zero.
The amount of radiant heat hitting the earth from the sun daily is relatively constant. The radiant heat lost daily by the earth thru black sky radiation is constant since absolute zero is constant. The amount of heat gained by the earth’s surface depends on the surface area of the earth covered by water relative to that covered by land. Land area absorbs a larger percent of the radiant heat relative to the water area since the surface of the water reflects a percentage of the radiant heat back to outer space. The daily access heat, or loss of heat, is transferred to the oceans thru conduction and convection where it works its way to the poles and it freezes water adding to the polar ice caps or melts the polar ice caps thus keeping the surface temperature of the oceans, thus the earth, relatively constant. As the polar ice caps grow or melt, the surface area of the earth covered by land relative to that covered by water changes. This is the definition of global warming. I call it Global Ice making and Global Ice Melting.
That radiant heat absorbed by oceans and land masses is transferred to the atmosphere thru conduction and convection. When it is winter in one hemisphere it is summer in the other and the same with spring and fall. I would think the average temperature of the lower 5,000 feet of the atmosphere changes about 10’F to20’F each day. This probably takes more heat than man has added to the earth in the last 50 years. That heat man adds to the atmosphere each day is radiated to the black sky and the infinitesimal amount left helps melt the ice during global warming, should be called Global Ice Melting.
Absolute Zero is -459.68’F and the average surface temperature of the sun is between 7,300’F and 10,000’F. If we could go back in time 18,000 years, the end of the last ice age, we would probable see that the average daily temperature of the earth was in the mid 60’F as it is today. You must understand the amount of heat gained every 24 hours is almost equal to that lost during the same 24 hours. Angle of the earth’s axis is 23.5’.
The average surface temperature of the earth is about 63.5’f. The heat loss to black sky radiation every 24 hours is constant. The average radiant heat striking the surface of the earth is relatively constant. Because the sun is an active star the average temperature will change over centuries. As the surface area of the earth covered by water increases, the more radiant heat is reflected back to the black sky increases. When the daily radiant heat gained by the earth from the sun in 24 hours became less than that lost by black sky radiation we began ice making. Looking at the ice core from the Antarctic we can see that the earth began the new Ice Age about 18,000 years ago.
The Weather Channel just had a piece on a very large section of ice is about to break off a peninsula in the Antarctic. This is be because of the fact that 18,000 years ago the earth switched from Global Ice Melting to Global Ice Making. Since then the Ocean levels may have dropped a foot and the ice has risen around 250 meters in the Antarctic. It seems like that would be a tremendous amount of leverage attempting to break off that ice. The Ocean level was some 400’ lower at the changeover and the 39’ water has been melting the bottom of that ice shelf for the last 73,000 years as the ocean rose. The shoreline has been receding below the glacier for 80+ thousand years. During Global Ice Making, the thickness of the ice, which eventually becomes a glacier is getting thinner. The weight of the new ice is what makes it become a glacier.
The Arctic ice core chart also shows the top 500’ is the beginning of the man’s discovery of fire, thus the increase of CO2 percentage rise in the atmosphere. The chart also shows that as the ocean level drops the CO2 level in the atmosphere drops. This is because the land surface area grows, thus the green foliage increases, thus the photosynthesis, which is how nature removes the CO2 from the atmosphere, lowers the CO2 level. Oceans were about 400’ lower than they are now at the peak of the ice age and global ice melting began. The last ice age lasted about 120 thousand years. That means it took about 60 thousand years to melt the ice, thus the oceans rose an average of 6.67 feet per thousand years.
The only thing I haven’t explained is how they get the date of the end of the Ice ages. It has to do with the ice melting from the top down. They say the last Ice Age ended about 18 thousand years ago. I say that point was ice deposited before the peak of the ice making and which was about 80+ thousand years ago.
As the ice melts the water flashes from solid directly into vapor and is absorbed into the cold, very dry air. This similar to the evaporation of a puddle in the driveway or the surface of the ocean.
I assume they date the ice by using carbon dating. This is on the solids they find in the ice core. As the ice is evaporated the solids are left behind. There is no way nature can take 60 thousand years to make the ice and melt it all in 10 thousand years.
About 18000 years ago the new ice age began. Until the land mass grew enough the carbon dioxide level in the atmosphere kept growing. About 18000 years ago the green foliage was not enough to stunt the growth of carbon dioxide and as the land mass grew the carbon dioxide level began to drop. About 16000 years ago the land mass, and green foliage, was enough to overcome nature. 8000 years ago, man plus nature began to make more carbon dioxide than the growth of green foliage could overcome and the carbon dioxide began to rise until present.

Awesome selection of truth. This should be permanently posted on the site!

I’ve seen stuff in the past something to the effect that indigenous peoples who live at the edge of glaciers rely on using glacial ice for water (they chip off a block or two at a time and take them back to their villages).

As I mentioned above, if glaciers were growing, that would be the end of their villages. If shrinking, they would have more fresh water from lakes and streams that form, and from regular rainfall, since they won’t know what snow is any more.