Heads are exploding today, get popcorn. Here are some of the best emotionaly based reactions from the climate alarmist squad.
Here’s billionaire climate activist Tom Steyer saying it’s a “traitorous act of war”. Yeah, right.
If Trump pulls the US out of the #ParisAgreement he will be committing a traitorous act of war against the American people. My statement: pic.twitter.com/Qjgxm4fELp
— Tom Steyer (@TomSteyer) May 29, 2017
“Scientific” American thinks the future is dead trees, everywhere:
What will the world look like if the U.S. bails on the Paris climate deal? https://t.co/ywfDw3PmEg pic.twitter.com/ARE4u7zCmm
— Scientific American (@sciam) June 1, 2017
Neil Degrasse-Tyson thinks Trump is just too stupid.
If I and my advisors had never learned what Science is or how & why it works, then I’d consider pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord too.
— Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson) June 1, 2017
So does Carbon Brief Editor Leo Hickman, though he’s got a bit of an ego problem to think Trump should read his stuff:
Slowly dawning on me Trump has NEVER ONCE read Carbon Brief's exhaustive, explanatory journalism on Paris Agreement https://t.co/3T51ogDD9S
— Leo Hickman (@LeoHickman) June 1, 2017
He also helpfully provided Weepy Bill McKibben’s nutty op-ed:
Op-ed by @billmckibben in NYT on Trump's exit from Paris Agreement https://t.co/KWYWjiBLtx pic.twitter.com/g2fP9K9MQc
— Leo Hickman (@LeoHickman) June 1, 2017
Bill McKibben provided a flag and a funeral:
My essay in the NYT on Paris withdrawal: 200 years of science and 20 years of diplomacy blown up by an ignorant man https://t.co/j1myoS3wRr
— Bill McKibben (@billmckibben) June 1, 2017
The other Leo must have been crying on his mega-yacht:
Today, our planet suffered. It’s more important than ever to take action. #ParisAgreement https://t.co/FSVYRDcGUH
— Leonardo DiCaprio (@LeoDiCaprio) June 1, 2017
The execrably ugly Michael Moore:
USA to Earth: FUCK YOU
— Michael Moore (@MMFlint) June 1, 2017
Trump just committed a crime against humanity. This admitted predator has now expanded his predatory acts to the entire planet. #ParisAccord
— Michael Moore (@MMFlint) June 1, 2017
You think that’s bad? Mr. Sulu goes full-retard:
Trump is having the U.S. pull out of the Paris Climate Accord. Too bad someone didn't tell his father that he shoulda pulled out, too.
— George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) June 1, 2017
Buh bye! Going to pay back all that money you got from the government anytime soon?
Am departing presidential councils. Climate change is real. Leaving Paris is not good for America or the world.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 1, 2017
Apparently, this is a Golden opportunity to play the race-card, according to the ACLU:
Pulling out of the Paris Agreement would be a massive step back for racial justice, and an assault on communities of color across the U.S.
— ACLU (@ACLU) June 1, 2017
The mayor of Pittsburgh was apparently not happy that Trump said: “I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris.”
As the Mayor of Pittsburgh, I can assure you that we will follow the guidelines of the Paris Agreement for our people, our economy & future. https://t.co/3znXGTcd8C
— bill peduto (@billpeduto) June 1, 2017
Robert Preston channels Trump Via cartoonist “Matt”:
Matt sums up Trump on climate change best, of course pic.twitter.com/UNsAWLB83h
— Robert Peston (@Peston) June 1, 2017
Al Gore, still boring:
My statement on Today’s Decision by the Trump Administration to Withdraw from the Paris Agreement: https://t.co/eDEFv5b1nS pic.twitter.com/SzHJU3D0Mr
— Al Gore (@algore) June 1, 2017
Hollywood actress Patricia Arquette suggested a class-action lawsuit against Trump’s decision to stop participating in what is an entirely voluntary and non-binding agreement.
Serious question- Can millions of people launch a class action suit if the US pulls out of Paris accord for negligence? #ParisAccord
— Patricia Arquette (@PattyArquette) May 31, 2017
Useless actor Mark Ruffalo: waaaahhh! At least Kathy Griffin shut-up.
Shame on you @realDonaldTrump as people lose their lives, homes and economic opportunities to your childish refusal to honor #ParisAgreement
— Mark Ruffalo (@MarkRuffalo) June 1, 2017
Obama, Zzzzz:
Statement from Barack Obama on the Paris Climate Agreement pic.twitter.com/SQc6kQV0Ah
— Bradd Jaffy (@BraddJaffy) June 1, 2017
One of Pope Francis’s right-hand men “Crux” said it would be “a slap in the face” to the Vatican if Trump did not continue with the agreement. Maybe the Pope could turn the other cheek?
#Vatican official says #Trump leaving Paris deal would be ‘slap in the face’ — by @inesanma https://t.co/AnCIvSrvbB pic.twitter.com/3WtArxPCHs
— Crux (@Crux) June 1, 2017
Al-Ed reacts:
Dear 🌍: we can't speak for everyone, but we speak for most – we're sorry, we're embarrassed, he doesn't speak for all of us. #parisagreement pic.twitter.com/RlijdlX4uL
— Alt Dept of ED (@Alt_DeptofED) June 1, 2017
This eco-green grassroots organizer said Trump’s announcement will prevent everyone from living on planet earth. We are dead already. Who knew?
Trump just declared war on the very idea of life on earth 🙁https://t.co/9KQ8yyZ384@LeoDiCaprio @JohnFugelsang @johncusack @MarkRuffalo
— Trita Parsi (@tparsi) June 1, 2017
Joltin Joe Room tries the scare tactic of showing Florida flooded:
Trump falsely claims Paris deal has a minimal impact on warming https://t.co/ppy5jZrHg7 pic.twitter.com/baU4wQIM7U
— Climate Power (@ClimatePower) June 1, 2017
There is no Planet B. This disastrous decision threatens the world our children and children’s children will live in. #ParisAgreement
— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) June 1, 2017
Maybe the most ridiculous one is this map from the Sierra Club. They probably need to work on their color scheme.
If Trump is pulling out of Paris, he is turning his back on the public in every single US state. #ParisAgreement pic.twitter.com/fKklVX6kCr
— Sierra Club (@SierraClub) June 1, 2017
The Huffington Post is predictably huffy and puffy:
HuffPo right now: "TRUMP TO PLANET: DROP DEAD" pic.twitter.com/q2pSyy805h
— Oliver Darcy (@oliverdarcy) June 1, 2017
This one is just psychotic, IMHO:
https://twitter.com/mims/status/870367084609515521
Josh sums it up pretty well after I chided Leo Hickman for thinking Trump should read his work::
It was a good speech tho wasn't it. pic.twitter.com/eViQ0d9WNK
— Josh (@Cartoonsbyjosh) June 1, 2017
UPDATE:
A new addition, Andrew Freedman from Mashable who once penned a ridiculous piece on sea-level, complete with a flooded runway, forgetting that airplanes can move faster than water:
https://twitter.com/afreedma/status/870425624967606272
I’m not the least bit ashamed of my reply:
The get the hell out! Really, get out. I'm tired of your anti-American BS. But like all the hollowood liberals who claimed they wud, u won't
— Watts Up With That (@wattsupwiththat) June 2, 2017
John Bolton nails it in this clip from today.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5456566516001/?#sp=show-clips
WOW, that is hitting the nail on the head..thanx
Who the hell are all these people anyhow. Never ever heard of most of them.
You should compare that sierra club red/blue map of the USA, with the red/blue by COUNTIES who voted for President of the United States;was it 95 to 5 for red: blue ??
There are only 435 people whose votes count for President of the USA, and they went mostly red. The FBI are still looking for the one of them who the Russians told to vote for Bernie Sanders.
Never have figured out what the (F) sands for.
G
they are virtue signalling clueless nonentities that unfortunately have a significant amount of influence over large numbers of even less well known virtue signalling clueless nonentities. the good thing is the majority of the worlds population realises these people are generally ill informed narcissistic liars .
Now, it is up to the people of those cities and states to reject the policies of their city and state leaders. It’s amazing that they think they can go against everything that reasonable. But, the citizens will determine what they do. Certain states, with California as our socialist crash test dummy for socialism, and New York the crash test dummy for destabilizing the energy supply with green energy, will lead the way, so that other states can see which way NOT OT GO.
I wonder if Pittsburgh will pay its “fair share” under Paris, it would probably work out to be in the millions annually.
This was quit entertaining and educational of the ignorance of this agreement regardless!
Mayor of Miami, who thinks he “centrist” roflmao
A far-left brain-washed hack, at best.
The pathetic dodging of the question says it all.
One track mind, with zero reality.
Unfortunately, whenever you hear someone define themselves as centrist, you know that are almost certainly very left of centre.
The mayor also acknowledged the existence of some “global democracy”! From my vantage point in Europe all I can say is good luck with that.
As an American I might have to question the mayor’s understanding of the US Constitution.
The mayor also acknowledged the existence of some “global democracy”! From my vantage point in Europe all I can say is good luck with that.
As an American I might have to question the mayor’s understanding of the US Constitution.
The mayor of Miami might do well to read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/07/miamis-vice/ and possibly hire Kip Hansen to run his engineering department.
Here’s your link to the Tucker Carlson show, Chris (thanks to ossqss).
Notice the Miami mayor never mentions that the land is being flooded because the land is sinking, he implies that the sea level is rising because of Global Warming/CAGW.
And Tucker Carlson does not seem to be aware that the water might be flooding the land for reasons other than Global Warming/CAGW. He allowed the mayor’s implication to stand as the truth. Tucker needs to bone up on sea level rise and its causes in order to be able to debunk these CAGW narratives.
A global democracy, run by people who were never elected by anyone.
Not unaware, just a debate tactic. “You say we have a problem. OK, fine. How would this agreement fix it?”
Arguing about the problem would sidetrack the point he is trying to make.
A correction:
This guy, Phillip Levine, is the Mayor of Miami BEACH, not of Miami. The Mayor of Miami is Tomas Regalado. They are separate and distinct municipalities. Miami Beach is on the barrier island that creates the northeastern edge of Biscayne Bay. The city of Miami is located to the west, on the mainland, across Bay. Both cities are in Miami Dade County, which also has a separate head, also called ‘mayor.’
wActually, I LOVE the idea that local government wants to continue on with the Paris Agreement. Cities and states do not have the infinitely funded checking account, and when they institute their draconian methods to comply with global governing, the fast dwindling tax base will revolt and move away from these misguided individuals. Only then will people begin to comprehend the true cost in trying to reduce the global temperature by 0.05 degrees 70 years from no
And an uncertainty of 0.08°C on the “mesure” of global temperature is the best estimate….So carbocentrists wanna spend billions $ for a zero result.
IMO as a frenchie
What a quaint idea.
I completely concur with former ambassador Bolton. Also, we are in for cooling now, not warming. Here in Finnmark, Norway, summer is already 2 – 3 weeks delayed. Freezing temperatures for 2 weeks now, 2-3 deg centigrade on average. Thick cloud cover. Cold wind. Snow and hailstorms. Just 3 years ago, we had temperatures in the mid 20s in the middle of the day at this point. The dimming of the sun has begun.
John Bolton:
Spot on !! That is the key process that this whole farcical “debate”, which has been falsely presented as “science”, is all about unelected international ‘governance’. aka world government.
Thank you John Bolton.
These people have far too many finger toys. Don’t they realize that you can’t play with your toys, if you have you fingers up your A*** all the time.
The only good thing about all of this pre-occupation with whether we will see 30 milli-degrees rise by the turn of the century is that it gives the FBI and CNN a break from trying to identify the one of 435 USA Electoral College Electors, that the Russians told to vote for Bernie Sanders.
So what’s with the NSA giving National Security Secrets to Contractors. Why is not every single person at the NSA a full time salaried Federal employee.
If the TSA can require airport security persons to all be US citizens and Federal Employees, you would think that the NSA would pay attention to their protecting the Nation’s security.
Duzzat really mean NO Security Atall ??
G
PS; Izzat election donnybrook all about the media and the Clintonistas trying to keep the USA voters in the dark, about all the illegal skullduggery she was up to. So she wanted the saps to believe she was all squeaky clean so they would in their ignorance vote her into power again. Wasn’t she already President twice ??
The guy has a sack
Oh, what a beautiful morning,
Oh, what a beautiful day …
I love Paris in the springtime
I love Paris in the fall
I love Paris in the winter when it drizzles
I love Paris in the summer when it sizzles
I love Paris every moment
Every moment of the year
I love Paris
Why, oh, why do I love Paris?
Because my Trump is near
Non, rien de rien,
Non, je ne regrette rien,
Car ma vie, car ma joies,
Aujourd’hui, ca commence avec toi!
J’attendrai le jour et la nuit
J’attendrai toujours ton retour
J’attendrai car l’oiseau qui s’enfuit
Vient chercher l’oubli dans son nid
Le temps passe et court en battant tristement.
French version of an Italian song, sung by a French-Italian young woman a year before the outbreak of WWII, apropos considering Paris and the Pope.
[One version translated.
I will wait day and night
I will always wait for your return
I will wait because the bird that runs away
Comes to seek forgetfulness in its nest
Time passes and runs sadly. .mod]
Her Italian accent is charming, but then there is this quintessentially French ballad from the same period:
WWII had a great soundtrack. Have to admit even better than that of my first war.
beththeserf June 1, 2017 at 6:14 pm
Piaf dedicated her recording of “Non, je ne regrette rien” to the French Foreign Legion, then fighting the Algerian War (1954–62). The 1st Foreign Parachute Regiment, which backed the failed 1961 coup against President Charles de Gaulle and the civilian leadership of Algeria, adopted the song when their resistance was broken. The Regiment’s commissioned officers were arrested and tried, but the non-commissioned officers and Legionnaires were assigned to other Foreign Legion formations. They left the barracks singing the song, which became part of the FFL heritage and is sung when the Legion is on parade. While the officers were interned, they sang a version of the song using lyrics relevant to their situation, which was recorded and used to be available on Youtube, but I see is no longer.
Penultimate verse, for those like me with only schoolboy French.
Beneath the Parisian sky
A joyous river flows
That lulls the tramps
And beggars to sleep
Beneath the Parisian sky
God’s birds
Come from around the world
To chat among themselves
And of course …
Ilsa: But what about us?
Rick: We’ll always have Paris. We didn’t have, we, we lost it until you came to Casablanca. We got it back last night.
Ilsa: When I said I would never leave you–
Rick: And you never will. But I’ve got a job to do, too. Where I’m going, you can’t follow. What I’ve got to do, you can’t be any part of. Ilsa, I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of three little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you’ll understand that. [she begins to cry] Now, now…Here’s looking at you kid.
“I fart in your general direction”
Tom Steyer “If Trump pulls the US out of the #ParisAgreement he will be committing a traitorous act of war against the American people.”
Leonardo Dicrapio “Today, our planet suffered. It’s more important than ever to take action. ”
If you two clowns (and many more) feel that strongly, then let’s see you part with your billions to mitigate this traitorous act of war and ease the suffering of our planet.
And stop flying your (nearly empty) personal jets around the world to give a five minute talk on climate change at a cocktail party!
But that would demand much more than virtue signalling, that would mean personal austerity! They are entitled to keep their lifestyle as long as they signal virtue constantly!
I sure its lost on these morons but most of them are expressing their “rage” using Twitter, whose infrastructure is powered by the very Fossil Fuels they despise.
…..And the productive economic endeavors that are providing the ‘real money’ with which the various so-called renewable clean energy sources are being subsidized are also being powered primarily with energy from fossil fuels. Pretending that the magic fiat currency that The Federal Reserve magically conjures out of their magic hole in the air is ‘real money’ is a fantasy that will not pay for very much for very long. Can you spell F. U. B. A. R.?
No no no. That may sound like a good idea dave, but you are forgetting something. If Al and Leo etc could not travel the globe in comfort, then how would us ignorant un-washed knaves ever benefit from their great knowledge and wisdom? Do you see?
What is REALLY funny is that not ONE of the ‘friends’ I talked about w this can tell me what exactly the Paris Accord ‘commits’ anyone too, not ONE. But, they all ‘KNOW’ that the US pulling out is BAD, BAD, BAD
I agree Bill, I have the same issue with ‘my friends’
These are ignorant people with no regard for the truth.
Climate alarmism is just part of a left wing ideology.
Regards GeoffW
Geoff, an “ideology” would have then understand what the agreement was about and defend it. No, this is a “religion”, which is a faith based on lack of evidence. Because it is a religion (or cult) that is why they react emotionally, unreasonably, and have unshakeable conviction despite contrary evidence – it is also why they treat people as ‘heretics”.
Old Testament AGW and New Testament “Climate Change” truly are religious doctrines for the Left.
They are fed the climate mantras 24/7 by the MSM and don’t look beyond it. AGW is presented as fact and no contrary views are allowed.
And the beauty of it all is that there is absolutely nothing at all that prevents the complainers about the USA leaving from acting personally in line with the Paris accords ie reducing their own emissions. Just they might have to do it without subsidies now. And it might be more obvious just how hypocritical they are as I think most of the complainers expect the Paris accord to apply to the behaviour of Clintons deplorables not their enlightened selves. This Australian says well done Trump. I only wish our government would wake up as well.
And, just think, Tom Steyer wanted to be president.
Rationality left these people behind long ago. Now they’re going to get dangerous.
I wouldn’t worry about them, they are mostly cowards and children mentally. The worst they could do is riot in the streets with antifa.
Oddly enough, they seem to be inclined towards setting trash cans on fire during these protests against Trump “the willful polluter”.
AntiF(irst)A(mendment) fascists stopped rioting on the streets once they lost the “Battle of Berkley” and were destroyed by pro-Trump Patriots. Notice how they are afraid to be out on the streets now ? one instance of the Right standing up for its rights in the heart of the AntiFA vatican of Berkley and AntiFA crumbled, and now quiver in fear – only to talk smack from behind their keyboards.
AntiFA have been exposed as a bunch of paper tigers who can only beat up people they massively outnumber.
‘I wouldn’t worry about them, they are mostly cowards and children mentally. The worst they could do is riot in the streets with antifa.’
Children mentality for sure, but I live just outside Portland Oregon, and people are nuts out here.
I’ve also learned to fear crazy people in large groups.
To be fair, that comment above purportedly written by Tom Steyer, might have been written by someone who had been testing his home brew or something.
I liked the line about how hard it would be to underestimate the damage this decision would do…
This is true. violence is all they have left having abandoned reason.
and here we are at the baseball practice!!
Trump has some catching up to do-
America has built the equivalent of 10 Keystone pipelines since 2010 …
business.financialpost.com/…/america-has-built-the-equivalent-of-10-keystone-pipelin…
3 Nov 2015
I wonder how many people realize how many pipelines they cross each day and how few leaks occur
(e.g., natural gas to homes and businesses, oil to refineries, gasoline to distribution centers, or jet fuel to airports).
How many trains and trucks and associated “CO2 pollution” would result to replace them? And the cost to the end user?
I also wonder how many consider the motives (political and $$) of most of these “celebrities”.
There is a serious shortage of critical thinking on this planet.
Aye, critical thought is dangerous to the enviro-socialist agenda. It must be replaced with faith in the indoctrinations of the MSM.
I forgot to mention this is a link to the map of oil and gas pipelines . I wonder how long it would take to replace this infrastructure and the gas stations with electric charging stations. Oh the cost too
Unfortunately there is a section of the public that has a retention problem, starting with HISTORY and finishing with LOGIC, the subjects in between are to many for morons to count !
ziiex,
HISTORY !!!! ( and climate )
It goes like this :
At last I have found someone who can explain to me about Climate Change, ( we are all going to die etc; etc; ) well could you please explain to me about GREENLAND ??? (hot ) yes interesting, but now explain to me about the ICE FAIRS on the river Thames in London ????
( cold ) Never had an answer
@ the Holy Church of AGW
@ the nvirostalinists
@ all enviroprofiteers
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-73-models-vs-obs-20N-20S-MT-5-yr-means1.png
Game over.
The logical implications of the observation that the planet did not warm for 18 years at time when atmospheric CO2 was rising the fastest, is that the warming can reverse, as the warming was not caused by the increase in atmospheric CO2.
There is an odd persistent cooling starting in high latitude regions (40 to 60 degrees latitude) both hemispheres. That is the same region that warmed the most in the last 150 years and is the same region that cyclically warms and cools in the paleo record with correlation to solar cycle changes.
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/anomaly/2017/anomnight.6.1.2017.gif
Persistent …but not odd. It will continue, because the Plateau, Pause, Hiatus has
not reached the end. The land temps still remain warmer, due innovative temp
readings (airporterization, UHI, homogenization etc) but they will also fall, at 2020
at the latest. Keep watching the oceans!
More interesting in that anomaly map is that the Gulf of Mexico is cooler than normal and the flow of the ‘Gulf Stream’ or ‘North Atlantic Drift’ has been blocked by the ‘Labrador Current’ which has now linked with the cold area in the North Atlantic. If that continues winter 2017 in Europe could be cooler than normal.
https://weather.gc.ca/saisons/animation_e.html?id=month&bc=sea
Agree with Weltklima. Things are cooling fast off the coast of Peru.
http://www.senamhi.gob.pe/main_popup.php?obj=usr/dms/dato_tsm/diario/tsm_a_peru/30MAY2017_tsm_a_peru.gif
For me it was “game over” when I saw plots of Tmax and Tmin. Almost all the upward trend in the average was being driven by Tmin. When I thought about that, I realized that only increases in Tmax would be a threat, and that increases in Tmin were actually beneficial. Once you understand that and put it in the proper context, namely that we are currently in the middle of an ice age, you realize that the current climatic trends are anything but bad.
Indeed. So many have argued with me about plants not benefiting from additional CO2 because they wouldn’t tolerate the “higher temperatures,” but that is based on the assumption that HIGH temperatures are what are (or will be) rising, when as you note it is really the LOW temperatures that are higher (though in the main this has nothing to do with CO2 anyway). Higher low temperatures are a win-win for plants – less killing frosts, less extreme temperature swings all benefit plants, just like added CO2.
If you want “climate catastrophe,” you need global COOLING, not warming. Of course, when it inevitably comes, they’ll find some pseudo-scientific way to blame THAT on human fossil fuel use too, since their aim from the very start was to control energy use, which thereby enables control of EVERYTHING.
Well gosh darn it. It takes much more energy to raise Tmax than it does to raise Tmin.
Its that pesky sigma T^4 nuisance.
Getting off zero kelvin is a piece of cake.
G
Damn, I really need to stop gloating, and perhaps I will stop next week. . .
Yeah, I would give it a week, Tom.
Didn’t your mothers warn you about your face freezing? Take a break of five minutes every hour on that gloating. (Note: Laughing hysterically does count as a break!)
I see you’re just a damn procrastinator !
Can’t you just commit to anything ??
I would wait till August; when it is a bit warmer.
G
Excellent to have all these very emotional and dedicated folks putting themselves on record. When time demonstrates the futility of their cause and the complete lack of a sicentific basis for the scare they have been promoting, not to mention the dire harm their recommendations would do to the poor, the industrial base and the environment when over 7 billion people try to feed, shelter and protect themselves without cheap energy, then their words will be seen in perspective and the their opinions will be given their just value (numbers don’t go that low!).
Yup. The more they are on written record, the worse it gets for them in the long run. And long comtinues shortening.
One thing about modern society, the minorities always scream loudly when things don’t go their way.
Yes, so right, all on record. The internet and wayback machine will not forget. But it applies to you and I as well. Have we ourselves been honest and open? Have we avoided belief without evidence? Have we been good scientists and looked at things with an open mind?
Some of us have, or have tried hard to but some of us have not. We can do better. Try having a look at this:
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/New-Insights-on-the-Physical-Nature-of-the-Atmospheric-Greenhouse-Effect-Deduced-from-an-Empirical-Planetary-Temperature-Model.pdf
So, when time demonstrates that the futility of believing in the very existence of even a smidgen of so called Greenhouse Gas Effect….
This has already been noted. ICAN created the standard atmosphere adiabatic lapse rates based purely on the gas laws. But then they were creating a product for safety of air navigation and were not looking for more research funds.
Not sure of the intent of your last sentence but I do agree with your argument about the rules of recorded opinion applying to all. I am very careful to only make statements I believe are supported by the evidence available. The paper you link to is a modeling experiment that tries to recalculate the “greenhouse” effect. I can find many physics and atmospheric papers trying to come to some conclusion about the effect and its magnitude but there is clearly no consensus, and modeling is only a method of defining an hypothesis. It is not a form of proof or evidence. Beyond that if one accepts the greenhouse effect and the widely quoted 1 degree C warming for a doubling of CO2, there remains huge latitude in the implications for the real Earth atmosphere depending on what other feedback and natural cycles are doing.
I don’t know. Paul Ehrlich has been on record making absurd predictions for 50 years now, and somehow it never seems to catch up to him.
Don’t forget my favorite paid troll Griffie, or whatever name he is using this week.
They’re all a bit, well, nuts, aren’t they?
No, they are not a bit nuts.
They are all completely of their dang rockers!
Or have lots of money tied up in the global warming scam.
Good news! Popcorn futures are up 1000%. And here I thought that tomorrow was for gloating.
Silly me.
Time for progressives to crack out On The Beach, a prescient movie about the day after Trump pulled out of the Paris Agreement.
I see London,
I see France,
I see Donald’s exit chance!
Bill, Bill, Bill. And here I thought we were friends. How about this: pay me $350 and all will be forgiven.
I promise.
Someone get me a tissue. I can’t stop crying…..from laughing.
There is quite a serious collective insanity at work here. It’s painful to watch. It’s even more painful when experienced directly, which is why I never discuss the subject with people any more.
We’ve seen the DDT problem revealed as a non-problem, although it still lingers on causing 10’s of millions of mainly child deaths.
We’ve seen the acid rain problem revealed as a bit of a non-problem (afaik, I’ve not researched it tbh).
We’ve seen the ozone problem revealed as a non-problem, although that lingers on too.
I can see the Global Warming™ non-problem becoming anything anything else but a zombie crisis fuelled by this collective insanity, unfortunately, despite the rise of the Internet.
+100
Jim
Yes, betting on a single one of these morons ever seeing how ridiculous they are being is a losing bet, most likely.
They will all die convinced they were right, even if we have massive decades-long cooling.
The best we can likely hope for is the whole thing to stay at the rock bottom of every poll of priorities among the general public.
At worst, the nitwits might somehow mobilize and win a series of elections and put in people who think like O Bummer.
Only half the country votes…anything could happen.
Butt peek OIL, me lad, PEEK OIL, ok, it’s on hold for now
Harry
That is yesterday’s peak. Todays is “PEAK SAND”111
”
THE WORLD IS RUNNING OUT OF SAND”
http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/107813-something-else-to-worry-about/
It is to be expected that millennial fears will die down as the old century passes.
All those Millennium Bugs, Mad Cow Diseases, Ozone Layers, Acid Raindrops and the rest just don’t have the emotional resonance that they did coming up to the big, round number.
And they only had emotional support in the first place.
The funny thing is that if you are a true believer, you have the power to make this right – simply reduce your energy consumption, reduce your “carbon footprint”, there is nothing stopping you from doing this. Nothing. Not Trump. Not anything.
So turn off the internet, turn off your electronics – as they are coal powered devices ( source of electricity), stop buying “stuff” – that all takes energy to produce & transport. Sell your cars & ride bikes or walk. Get a wood burning stove in stead of central heat. Stop traveling. Move into a “tiny house”. You can do all of this & more. The list is endless. There is nothing to stop you. Not Trump. Not anything.
Or is saving the planet a job for someone else ?
Like this?? 😉
https://youtu.be/YlXAbi7RSBU
Jeff L,
Spot on! This is the exact response we all should give when confronted by someone demanding that “we” (in other words, everybody else) must do something about “climate change”.
Which side is its face on ??
g
But that’s the whole personality type – they can’t just live their life the way they want to – you have to, also. Pretty much across the board, on every issue, extending far beyond climate change.
Control freak first.
The Sierra Club just said half the people I run into on the street…are total f’in nutjobs
Did they call them “deplorables”?
As you can see in the map they posted, the ones who do not have the same opinion as the Sierra Club don´t count as people.
What the hell is wrong with all of those people?
Have they never noticed that nothing unusual is happening?
That the sky is blue, trees green, water wet, plants growing…and weather is still weather?
It is like half the world is on a shared acid trip.
Well said.
+1000
I am pretty sure that a good number of these people…the Arquette girl is a good example…have nothing to gain from any of this…they honestly believe the world is burning up and going to hell…even though anyone can look around and say “Where, exactly, are all these problems? Where are the drowning people? Remind me again why we need Arctic ice to survive as a planet?”
In the 1930s the choicest farmland in the world turned into a bowl of corrosive dust. In 2017, even the Sahel in Africa is greening up and feeding people reliably.
Billions of dollars at stake. The low cast are just mentally unstable.
What’s wrong with a little multinational economic suicide pact, if it will save dear old mother Gaia?
The sad truth and irony is that more healthful CO2 is just what the doctor ordered for ailing Mama Gaia.
Well said, indeed, Menicholas.
And the great thing is (see all the polls)…
MOST Americans: Could. Not. Care. Less. About “cliiiiiimaaaate!”
They DO “see trees of green, red roses too …
skies of blue and clouds of white …the colors of the rainbow …
… the faces of people going by …”
/
\
/
\
V
A song for all the wound-up-way-too-tight ones out there.
Take a clue from the rest of us! ) 🙂
Happy (Pharrell Williams)
(youtube)
… you can take a break … come along…
Chill. Real life is going on all around you. It isn’t having a fit or throwing a tantrum today.
And as I drive away in my ICE car,
here’s a bumper sticker for you:
#(:))
Janice,
Thanks!
I literally laughed out loud at the Minion bogeying.
How about this:
DWBH I should note dates from that fateful year of 1988, when Hansen jump started the lie by turning off the a/c in the Senate hearing room.
And a badge or t-shirt iron-on
http://s19.postimg.org/acl8ewfqr/CO2_green_p_LANET.jpg
Greening the planet since 2.5 billion BC!
Oh, Chimp. After you were so kind to tell me you enjoyed “Happy,” I’m very sorry to have to tell you that……….. I loathe that “Don’t Worry, Be Happy Song.” I don’t know why. I think it’s because I was in a more feisty/rebellious mode in the 1980’s-90’s and something about that command to not worry and be happy was:
1. Like some old hippy telling me what to do.
2. VERY DOPEY SOUNDING (like elevator music) to my Judas Priest, Def Leppard, Van Halen – loving ears.
Shrug.
It does fit the theme, here, though, so, I give you a one thumb up for that.
Lots of people like that song, though — you are in good company. 🙂
In Germany, McFerrin was known as Wunderstimme due to his incredible vocal abilities.
Sorry so to bum you out. I can see that anyone unhappy in 1988 might have been annoyed by the song.
I was then worried about Bush taking over from Reagan, but not about Dukakis beating him, despite the Democrat’s being up by 20 points in May. A grad school classmate of mine, even then already a famous political columnist, was sure that Dukakis was going to win. He hasn’t enjoyed talking to me since then. He had previously been sure that Carter would come from behind to beat Reagan.
Chimp: I wrote poorly.
1. You did not bum me out with that song. I didn’t listen to more than a couple bars to be sure of what it was.
2. I wasn’t unhappy in 1988 (well, once in awhile, lol, but not in general). It just was like nails on the chalkboard (but milder than that).
Janice,
To each his or her own, but anyone who has ever tried to sing should recognize the man’s vocal genius.
@ AndyG — GREAT decal! 🙂 Hope your school year, now that it has been underway down under for awhile, now, is going well.
I prefer:
CO2 IS NOT
A PROBLEM
School? Thanks for the demotion, Janice 🙁
And for Steve
AndyG {stamp foot}. I thought you were a math teacher! No demotion. Just a mistake — sorry about that. Onward, now, okay? Still WUWT friends — “to infinity and…….. beyond!” (<– for old times' sake 🙂 )
Well said, indeed, younicholas.
And the great thing is (see all the polls)…
MOST Americans: Could. Not. Care. Less. About “cliiiiiimaaaate!”
They DO “see trees of green, red roses too …
skies of blue and clouds of white …the colors of the rainbow …
… the faces of people going by …”
/
\
/
\
V
A song for all the wound-up-way-too-tight ones out there.
Take a clue from the rest of us! ) 🙂
Happy (Pharrell Williams)
(youtube)
… you can take a break … come along…
Chill. Real life is going on all around you. It isn’t having a fit or throwing a tantrum today.
And as I drive away in my ICE car,
here’s a bumper sticker for you:
#(:))
Dear Moderator — would you please delete my duplicate post (the one at 6:03pm) — it *poof* disappeared into nowhere, then, worked! Sorry!! THANK YOU! Janice
And thank YOU, Janice, for remembering that my handle is just the name of me, Nicholas!
YOU are welcome, Nicholas. Actually, I only guessed at that — I’ve always wondered if you were saying, “Me Nicholas.” Fun idea and nice to know I guessed right! 🙂 Glad my first post disappeared (temporarily), so I tried a new version of your name the second time.
Actually I was given the name during an online chat with a girl I met at the isc.ro website.
I used to play scrabble many hours a night.
Anyway, it was about 2003 or so, and I was a very slow typist…even slower than now, since I had never typed much before having a computer and I only had gotten my first one a few years earlier.
So, she had a very long name (Josephine) and I tried to shorten it by giving her a nickname. She got mad and said “Call me Josephine!”
Well, I thought it was kind of silly, it was a one on one chat so there was no confusion about who I was talking to/about.
Anyway…she was calling me Nick, and I said “Well, then call meNicholas!”…missing a space bar tap.
She was delighted to, and said so right away, and never again called me anything else.
“Ok Menicholas”.
What, no call me Nicholas.
“Sorry, I take first instructions Menicholas”.
And so it went…it stuck, and that was that.
I played for years under that name, but after not playing for a while I think my records were erased.
Which is a shame…it was quite something.
Averaged nearly two bingos per game, 90% wins.
I only played three minute games after a while…longer than that and people are cheating. And double challenge no-escape.
Meaning you lose your turn if a word is successfully challenged (the real rules, IOW), and you lose if you disappear for more than three minutes. (People would go offline a few seconds before last turn and avoid a loss by cheating that way.
I had to become a much faster typist to play and win thousands of three minute games of scrabble.
Ok, so it was the long version 🙂
Anyway…we lost touch…one of us got banned from the site for something.
She was studying to be a barrister, and lived in and was from London.
Very nice girl, we talked.
So, if you are out there, Josephine Charmaine Zebbire…give me a holler!
Oh, Nicholas (you), I’m so sorry you lost touch with your buddy. Thank you for sharing — what a generous spirit you have to do that. I just prayed that you two will find each other! And don’t worry — if your paths are meant to cross again — they will.
Here’s a little song for you both:
(it has comforted me vis a vis my faraway special someone… looking up at the same full moon… the same stars… sleeping underneath the same big sky…)
Somewhere Out There
(youtube — the lyrics are kind of messed up)
“Somewhere, out there, someone’s saying a prayer
that we’ll find one another …
somewhere out there
out where dreams
come true.”
Best wishes in your quest! (DO — NOT– GIVE — UP!)
Janice
I can name that tune in four notes !!
g
Meni….even funnier
The same people that said the US should not tell the rest of the world what to do…
…are now screaming because the US is not telling the rest of the world what to do
The rest of the world can now do anything they damn well please……..
All the chaos is happening in their heads – or at least that would explain things a bit better. And as someone upthread mentioned, many of them stood to gain financially (or otherwise) in a financial environment where interest rates are low. It’s hard to make a good ROI and what’s better than those sweet, sweet taxpayer dollars?
in particular Musk
whos companys are only just hanging in due to insane concessions and grants!
no wonder hes got his jocks in a twist
It’s not so much an lsd trip as the probability of missing out on an Lsd fest.
Librae, solidi and denarii has a slightly different meaning than lysergic acid diethylamide.
Well I could use a goodly helping of that denarii; even just a few brass razoos would help.
g
What was the line in that old song?
“Everything you think do and say, is in the pill you took today.”
Many things over the years have been “thrown against the wall to see what sticks”.
“Catastrophic Anthropomorphic Global Warming” is what seems to have “stuck to the wall the longest”.
The pushers aren’t pushing pills. They just want you to keep licking the wall and forget how bad that last wad tasted.
https://youtu.be/izQB2-Kmiic
That’s one reason they pitch to kids, who haven’t had thirty years to see model predictions fizzle.
“The Paris climate treaty is climatically insignificant. EPA’s own models show it would only lower global warming by an inconsequential two-tenths of a degree Celsius by 2100. The cost to the U.S. – in the form of required payments of $100 billion per year to the developing world – is too great for the inconsequential results. These very real expenses will consume money that could be used by the private sector to fund innovative new technologies that are economically sound and can power our society with little pollution.”
https://www.cato.org/blog/statement-us-withdraw-paris-climate-treaty
That’s US$100 billion per year, PER YEAR, for 0.2 C in 2100 based on models that have NO SKILL!!
GOOD on you Donald, great business decision!!
Agree. Thie Paris agreement was not a deal to address climate change (if real); it was a deal to transfer wealth.
Why should we treat these “scientists” as authorities when they cannot even get the basic spelling right.?
They spelled “Climate” as “Climat”, On the Eiffel Tower no less !!!! This is either a truly egregious spelling error or yet another airhead attempt to communicate to the world in a furn language.
Chris Riley
Wrong, wrong, wrong ! !!!
It was a “unamins dession “
And why should we pay anyone anything?
They should pay us, for making their crops and trees grow faster and in more places!
Or, better yet, everyone keep what is theirs and keep their grabby mitts off whatever aint.
And stop trying to save the world.
Maybe try instead for making a few solid contributions towards improving the lot of some actual people where one actually lives.
The world needs no saving…but odds are their are a few eminently clean-upable messes in each of our neighborhoods.
“If Trump pulls the US out of the #ParisAgreement he will be committing a traitorous act of war against the American people.” ~ Tom Steyer
If Jerry Brown does more than agree to egg rolls while in China he needs to be prosecuted for treason.
@Forrest Gardener- spot on! “The bad guys always confess….”
Send the graph from this page to EVERYONE who complains about pulling out of the Paris Accord. Maybe pretty pictures can show them how senseless and futile it was.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/05/31/in-one-graph-why-the-parisclimate-accord-is-useless/
Yep that’s the one. Just keep putting in their faces. The pause that comes after is funny to say the least. They just can’t believe that it would make next to no difference.
You know what the most egregious part of that graph is? They used the idiotic 4.5-5.0 ECS models that are toooooooooooooo hot. If they used a model that is in the more likely 1.0 – 1.2 C ECS range the difference is even smaller – to the point that the scale you used to zoom in on the difference wouldn’t show a difference!
Very true Owen. Even using their own climate sensitivity it is next to meaningless. Using more realistic ECS or even a halfway measure removes the “next to” part.
Better to post a graph of past, current, and future CO2 emissions broken out by country.
No. Keep it simple. Keep it on topic. The topic that they are all flummoxed over is the Paris Accord. 🙂
But Paris is about CO2, and it will not matter…indeed cannot matter… if we pull out, at least not to the amount of CO2 in the air. Not by enough to even be detectable on a persons skin.
That .05 degrees is because Paris does nothing that will matter.
Alarmists and useful idiots will simply disbelieve this chart.
But disbelieving a graph of current and past emissions is harder, since it is factual and verifiable.
A matter of record.
We are already shrinking emissions due to fracking.
China now emits far more than the US ever did, even during the peak of the boom…way more, and increasing rapidly.
It proves that us dropping out of Paris will not matter.
This chart is not really proof of anything…even if it turns out to be 100% accurate, it is a prognostication at this point…just a guess.
Easily doubted and impossible to back it up.
Besides…it appears to concede that CO2 warms the planet.
I for one am not willing to concede that.
I do not concede, nor am I convinced, that the invented global average temperature is going to go up at all, let alone in a smoothly curving uptrend which is due to CO2 emitted by us.
If CO2 has any ability to warm the whole planet, it is obvious that natural variability is far higher.
This graph is not a good argument to make, IMO.
The emissions graph is simply reality, what is occurring on the Earth for real, now and in years past.
One needs the emissions charts to even get to this chart.
How many of these people know that US emissions are heading substantially downward and China is the leading emitter by far?
One cannot change a single mind by arguing from the warmista perspective.
One may change a few minds, or at least give pause, with new information.
Anywho, that’s how I see it.
Others are free to disagree.
While you are correct it is always important to keep in mind who your audience is. What you just said, while correct, would be over the heads of most of the pro-AGW crowd. You would get a quarter of the way through and they would be overloaded and screaming “denier”.
I prefer to keep in on the current topic of their outbursts and keep it simple. That is where that graph is such a killer. The “deer in the headlights” response is totally priceless.
These idjuts are literally insane !
..They are no longer able to shake…their green heads have exploded !
I was hoping for
UNFCCCForwarded by Tom Jacob/AE/DuPont on 11/29/2000 11:08
While organized and deeply committed environmental activism has long been an important part of the UNFCCC process through major groups such as NRDC,EDF/ED, WWF and Greenpeace, they have operated within the structure as
constructive participants in the policy-setting process, along with industry.
At The Hague, this “inside” role was supplemented by hundreds of young, relatively naïve demonstrators brought in specifically to energize
the environmental presence and confront the process. Even some within the ranks of the more established participants — while disavowing the takeover
of the negotiating room — saw fit to publicly offer Minister Pronk and the
UNFCCC Secretariate a veiled threat of “Seattle” if the process failed to
deliver.
http://di2.nu/foia/foia2011/mail/0340.txt
‘If you like your climate, you can keep your climate.’
Hey alarmists, now is the best time to sell your beach front home, before it floods and becomes worthless.
I’ve got a pocket full of cash and willing to pay 10 cents on the dollar for Florida beach front home. That is right, I’m willing to pay you 10x what your property is worth.
If only Trump believed, you might have been able to pick up Mar-A-Lago.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sugar-rautbord/mar-a-lago-the-trump-wint_b_7971396.html
The MSM is reporting this afternoon that numerous large US companies wanted us to continue honoring the Paris accord. Yet, the broad market indexes did very well today, knowing the gist of the President’s announcement early this morning. S&P 500 up .76%, NASDAQ up .78%, Morningstar Small Cap up 1.84%. Hmmm. What’s up with that?
Turns out not being forced to waste money by the trainload is good for profits!
Whodathunkit?
And today, weak job numbers and the major indices set new records yet again.
The markets love Trump, no matter what anyone says.
Oh, and by the way…the US is already decreasing emissions of CO2 by more than any other country in the history of forever!
Without even trying!
And the biggest emitter, the one leading all others by huge margins and is increasing the rate of emissions faster than any other country in history…is not even forced by Paris to change one freakin’ thing!
The whole thing is meaningless in terms of CO2…even if you are convinced that CO2 matters!
This sickens me…histrionic mindlessness from clueless jackasses.
Can someone please post updated emissions trend charts broken out by country…so we can all spread it around and try to quell this nincompoopery before I vomit up my internal organs in disgust?
Yes, please. And for the Kyoto signatory countries, go as far back as needed to show how well they complied with their mandatory commitments to reduce emissions.
Here’s a PDF from EIA that shows the
emissions outlook for OECD and Non-OECD countries
As can be seen, OECD emissions are rising slowly from a dip in ~2010.
Non-OECD emissions are rocketing away.
Watermelons expoding. Everywhere. Fortunately, we loaded in much popcorn in anticipation. And it still early days. Fear might run out of popcorn.
Just think.
Popcorn is food.
More corn used for food.
Less food used for fuel.
A real “Win-Win”! 8-0
But is your Popcorn “Organic” ?? LOL …/sarc
Butch all food is organic, try shopping for inorganic food, no sarc it is another word usurped by green idiots to pretend they are saving the planet.
Well it’s got carbon in it; so yes it is organic. And very low in Tantalum Nitrides.
g
I share in your anticipation, beer in hand! 10+ years following this myth. I can only hope it is all down hill from here, this is the unraveling but I am not holding my breath anytime soon.
Been following it for 18 years. In the UK we still have the Climate Change Act, which commits governments to continue the foolishness. We have a long way to go, but this is a great start.
Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
Winston Churchill
IMploding – it’s only vacuum inside…..
I’m not tired of winning yet! Like liberal/Socialist tears, these reactions are delicious!
The Dow was up 135.53 points today, but Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman-Sacs called the decision a “setback for the environment…blah blah, blah”. When Golden Slacks is moping around, you know things are good for the little guy. ;->
He is likely sandbagging as they buy up shares like there is once again a tomorrow.
Meanwhile, Trump is teabagging all the EU ‘leaders’ in victory. Awesome move Mr President – you are indeed leader of the FREE WORLD 🙂
BTW, the Dow (up 0.65%) is only 30 stocks, and on a percentage basis was up less than the NASDAQ (up 0.78%), the S&P (up 0.76%, and up far less than the Russell 2000 small cap index (up 1.89%).
The Russell was up nearly 2% on the day! And it is a composite of 2000 companies, which although small cap (shorthand for market capitalization…the combined value of all shares of a companies’ stock), are worth an average of over a billion dollars each, up to as much as $13-14 billion.
Smaller large companies stand to see a larger percent gain in profits if and when energy and regulatory costs decline, or fail to rise as much as had previously been predicted.
This is bad for GE who have bet a lot on their Green Tech.
Lets see Little Billy Mcibbon got it right but he misspelled the last word it should have a capital M and 2 n’s.
Poor widdle Snowflakes, I feel so sorry for them…NOT!!!!!
I love the sound of watermelons exploding in the morning! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
All we need to cap this laughable collective hyperbole is a comment from Griff.
Hello, Griiff…..???
Hallllooooo? Where are you hiding Griff?
We need more laughs … please oblige.
The unintended consequence is that California is now doomed by Comrade Jerry and the “Progressives” doing to us what Paris would do to the USA…All for little or naught.
They elected him. They must like what he plans to do that will bankrupt them. I won’t give a flying monkey butt as long as US tax payers don’t have to bail them out.
Jerry will show us how his delusional thinking can trash a State economy in ten easy lessons, and will give us all an example of what other States should *not* do. As someone else said, California is our “crash-test dummy”.
All the Liberals crying in California may well contribute to sea level rise . .
I love Bill McKibben’s take on “200 years of science … blown up by an ignorant man.” An ignorant author forgot that in 1970s the scare was global cooling, not warming. The goal then, just like today, was free money to be provided by an idealistic U.S. government. A nice try. This time it almost succeeded.
Yeah, and they were just as sure back then that humans were causing Global Cooling as they are now about humans causing Global Warming.
They were wrong then, and it looks like they are wrong this time, too, although the jury is still out. But it’s not looking good for the alamist team.
So this is not the first time that humans have gotten hysterical over thinking humanity was changing the climate. The only thing the two time periods have in common though is hysteria over human-caused climate change.
McKibbles is owning all of the failed predictions of the recent 200 years?
Wait – Arrhenius wasn’t even around!
Bill McKibben wouldn’t know what Science was if it hit him in the face like a dead mackerel.
These activists think USA’s 80 year contribution of 0.05 c at most will destroy the planet! #alarmist#activists#clueless.com
I love Bill McKibben saying they’ll double down on their commitments, since zero X 2 is still zero. Few of the Warmists practice what they preach, and, in fact, tend to have higher carbon footprints than Skeptics.
That is true of people I personally know.
Pretty much to a man and woman…everyone.
Maybe Griff is in the process of getting a Gripp.
Yes, the “The Arctic is incredibly hot” headlines, in midwinter, are particularly annoying lies.
The disconnect between those headlines and the weather news that record cold air will settle over the East coast tonight as Arctic air barrels in behind the latest front, is how you know these people never even stop to think about anything for even a second.
They do not have the sense they were born with.
They make a run-of-the-mill curious five-year-olds look like Einstein.
Put Up or Shut Up
The likes of Leonardo DiCaprio Elon Musk and Al Gore are very welcomed to give their own millions of dollars to the Paris Climate Treaty
No one is stopping them
I know it’s getting warmer because the Al-Ed girl was hot!
They’re going nuts over on Ars Technica over it.
The 4th letter should “e”
Frightening, isn’t it, that a good number of your fellow citizens in a technological society are insane, ignorant
and completely gullible in believing the AGW hysterical nonsense?
You know, I was at Zoo Atlanta today, and those folks proved to me that they are not logical. They had all this global warming propaganda embedded in the messaging all over the exhibits. It was completely unavoidable anywhere you looked. Then I got to the Orangutan enclosure where they had all these big posters about the magnificent animals being greatly endangered due to clear cutting of forests for palm oil plantations. It never once dawned on any of the idiots that their very demands for “renewable fuels” were the primary drivers of this habitat destruction. IRONY IS LOST ON ENVIRONMENTALISTS!
So is logic.
The Audubon Society of all organizations, supports the very windmills which are massacring birds, including rare and endangered species, in their tens of millions.
Insanity!
http://www.audubon.org/content/audubons-position-wind-power
They imagine that “proper siting” will solve the problem of killing birds and bats.
At least they did oppose the Obama Administration’s USFWS rule which would have allowed wind farms to keep killing Bald and Golden eagles, by exempting windmills for 30 years from the Endangered Species Act.
>>
The Audubon Society of all organizations, supports the very windmills
<<
They weren’t originally, but they put in their place by the other green-bat organizations. It reminds of the doctor’s comment at end of the movie: “The Bridge on the River Kwai” where he simply says: “Madness! Madness!”
Jim
It reminds me of the end of movies like Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, where by then everyone knows that they are all a bunch of crooks with various angle to profit from and not a sincere thought in their heads or word from their lips.
If you never saw it…do.
The Audubon Society seems to be one of several organizations that look at the net worth of the Nature Conservancy ($5,923,968,911 in 2014’s IRS 990 form) and realize they should be striving to become a mini Nature Conservancy.
The American Bird Conservancy seems to have picked up Audubon’s mantle and mantra of defending birds no matter what the cost and are not nearly as fond of wind turbines.
https://abcbirds.org/10-worst-wind-energy-sites-for-birds/
Yup. No such group wants to get read out of the Noble Cause League by daring to sing off a different hymnal. Their voices must be united.
Must join the Borg!
I used to give money to some of these groups, and not all that long ago.
That changed for good when I found out how malleable they became with regards to their ostensible mission.
Among the most egregious pack of hypocrites I ever became aware of.
Tore their stickers of my bumpers too, along with those of any of “science” organizations I once supported.
It was really a slap in the face and incredibly sobering.
Top it off with what has become of the science periodicals I had been reading monthly for many decades…I do not even know how to finish the sentence…words fail me.
Dear Global Warmers:
Keep up the whining and teeth gnashing, cause it is Music to my ears!
The AGW Scam is Up! The CC Sham is dead!
Sincerely,
Taxpayer you ripped off
Hopefully Trumps action will embolden other leaders who hopefully won’t be spooked by the noisy rantings of the warmist zealots. The silent majority who remain just that are smiling. No media reports to cheers that are coming from them on websites such as this one. I still think it has a while to go before the global warming scare is ” dead, buried, and cremated” but this is surely a major first step.
Agree. Sanity has won an important battle, but there’s still a war going on.
I’ve been following them on Twitter: The world is going to die! The planet is going to cook! We are all going to go extinct! I shake my head at this insanity. And the media is no different. Claims that more “superstorms” like Sandy will happen. It’s total madness.
The CO2 horses**t has to stop.
More Popular Delusions and Madness of the Crowds.
Down Under!
Elon Musk: “Climate change is real.”
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear Smart than open it and remove any and all belief.
I don’t get Musk. You can generate electricity More reliably and a tenth as cheap with fossil fuels. He dshould be able to sell more cars.! If he doesn’t he will find some upstart competitor that pushes him out of business. Subsidies have infected good old American business acumen.
Elon Musk: “Climate change is real.”
And I claim my next $4 billion.
Elon, you have gotten enough of our tax money. I seriously hope that your empire building will be successful and will provide a bunch more cool products to the world. Just do it without taking Federal subsidies.
When duzz he leave for Mars. I’ll hang around for that.
So long as he takes two more Californians with him.
g
A number of people here are expressing disappointment that Trump did address the science of the issue, but let’s not confuse science with politics. I think Trump did an excellent job on the politics of this. He has “split the baby”, as people say of Solomonic wisdom, by offering to renegotiate. Moreover, this announcement may flush the skunks out the wood pile–we will now see who is willing to go to the mat to somehow impose this voluntary agreement on the U.S. through the courts, perhaps. If Trump had addressed the science of this we would be treated to the tired 97% argument by the 10% with no progress in sight.
Now we have some flexibility to fight this, and also plan our lives. Thanks, Trump.
Trump’s offer to renegotiate? Haha! Which takers are going to agree to become givers? China and India?. The same with most of the other signers. Trump is going to raise the price on them for participation — and they will decline the deal.
How much is the rest of the world willing to pay out of pocket to “save the earth from climate change”? Exactly zero.
Eugene WR Gallun
I believe that was President Trump’s subtle point, Eugene.
This way none of his critics can accuse him of forcing the issue or shutting down the dialogue.
The ball is in their court and they were counting on the US to pay for it.
I saw quite a number of ‘pundits’ on TV last night saying that Donald Trump has ceded leadership of the CAGW cause to China. That is the LAST thing the PRC wants. They were quite happy with the US footing the bill and tanking its economy while China waited until 2030 to do anything (and then, maybe not do anything). If they are now front and center, they may come under scrutiny they surely don’t want. They will however, gladly take to the bully pulpit to excoriate the US. Expect the mandarins’ hypocrisy quotient to sky rocket.
On June 1st, Al Gore spoke at the “Jeju Forum for Peace and Prosperity 2017” (http://jejuforum.or.kr) in South Korea. His speech here was totally different than his official statement on his website. According to the Korea Times, Al Gore said: “The United States is going to continue reducing emissions regardless of what President Trump does”. And he “pointed out that Apple, Google and other American businesses are going “100 percent” in developing and using renewable energy”.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2017/06/281_230455.html
That is fine if Apple, Google, etc want to go all in for Green. So long as those companies don’t try to force their AGW fanaticism on America.
I don’t care if they want to try to force their AGW fanaticism on America. I only care that they don’t expect the Federal government to subsidize their clean energy schemes. I hope they discover the giant deposit of Unicorn farts that must exist somewhere in the earth and they, in their obviously endless magnanimity, share those farts with the rest of the world.
If they don’t take government subsidies then the money they spend is theirs to spend as they want. When subsidies are involved it becomes the public’s money.
The profits off renewable industries have always come from the subsidies. None are independently viable.
Eugene WR Gallun
PS — The business model for renewable industries is — Get a huge government loan — pay yourself well — then go bankrupt.
All of the NY Times OpEds and Opinion Pieces were obviously written in ADVANCE. They appeared in the online version of the NY Times within minutes of Trump’s announcement.
You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means link
Science is about making and testing hypotheses. It is a speculative activity. When it progresses to near certainty, it becomes engineering or medicine.
Neil Degrasse-Tyson you are not nearly as smart as you think you are. Anyway, to mangle a metaphor, cheerleaders are not football players. You and Mr. Nye are not scientists and your qualifications are less than those of a good number of the denizens of WUWT.
Indeed
commieBob — well said — Eugene WR Gallun
All i want to know is, how sending trillions of $$$ overseas is going to stop global warming?
Just what is it these demented people struggle so hard with in the concept of two tenths of a degree in a century? Even if the doom-mongers are right. How stupid can anyone literally be? How can there be so many people simply dying to commit economic suicide in order to achieve literally nothing at all? Every generation comes to a point in their middle years when they say ‘the World has gone mad’. But now the World has gone mad.
WARNING…WARNING…
HEALTH ALERT….Do not wander into liberal websites at this moment…..You would be at risk of laughing to death at the stupidity of comments there at this time… You will be notified in the future when it is safe !
Butch — laughing my assets off — Eugene WR Gallun
Weather.com predictably has gone full CACA cuckoo:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-made-decision-climate-heres-weather-channel-wanted-see-222353983.html
There is this thing called the SUN it will determine how hot and cool Gaia gets.
I know, right. I’ve been using that line for years and adding the question ” Do you think a couple extra molecules of co2 has more influence on climate?” The usual response was to defer to the “cosenses of 97% of scientists say”. People have no ability to use critical thinking and don’t like being challenged.
Oh man, I need some help, I ran out of popcorn, dang, I didn’t model my popcorn consumption well enough.
Not sure how that happened, I did 2137 model runs and made an ensemble of the results, they said my popcorn would last until 2100 if I simply turned off the AC all summer long….
Anybody want to help a skeptic out, I would gladly repay someone next Tuesday for an overnight shipment of popcorn today….. (all credit due to Popeye)
Cheers, KevinK, suddenly hard of hearing due to the sounds of heads “xploding”. (no disrespect towards folks that have struggled with real hearing impairments intended)
You know, “histrionic” is a very lucky word. I mean, it was going out of style and people weren’t using it any more, it was headed for the obscure end of the dictionary, and then BAM! Example after example after example.
Pulled back from the brink, that one was.
Fundamentalist leftist AGW has the upper hand in education, bureaucracy and increasingly in commerce.
New BHP boss (world’s largest miner) is a globalist AWG con artist.
USA winning battles is good but other Western nations need to be more organized in their fight against AGW fraud.
The “other Western nations” (Germany, UK, and Australia) are leading the way into renewable energy Armageddon. They are all starting to experience the distress caused by the ridiculous increases in energy prices. They will break it off soon, I am thinking. California and South Australia are both “states” that are going to drink ALL of the renewable energy Kool Aid, or so it appears at the present time. They will serve as a warning to any other country or state that thinks that is the way to go.
Don’t get me wrong, wind and solar both have their place. But that place can best be found when governments stop subsidizing them.
They are SCREAMING so loudly because….
they lost their audience a looooong time ago.
Listen — to — us!! LISTEN — TO — US!!!!!
http://www.thepurposeisprofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Bored-Audience.jpg
**********************
Re: that all-red map of the U.S. — that is probably a Sierra Club membership-only poll. Whatever bogus statistical construct they are graphing there, it’s a meaningless piece of information. There aren’t that many people in the entire United States who have enough of an idea WHAT the deal really is with Paris to care either way.
Average American cares about “CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!” this much:
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/parker-bored.gif
Seriously.
Janice, you’re a woman . . . what’s she looking at like that? We know it’s not a guy! 🙂
That’s the inimitable, then young, future “Indie Queen” Parker Posey in “Dazed and Confused” (1993).
You are correct, Pat! 🙂 She isn’t looking at anything. She is staring blankly out the window of the fast food restaurant there while on her break (she would NEVER go out in public dressed like THAT with her hair like THAT) thinking about how long it will take her to save up enough money to move out of her parents’ house. From the look on her face and given the job she has, that will take about 40 years. And that doesn’t make her jump for joy.
She COULD be looking at a guy. But, it would be her boyfriend that she has come to realize is so dumb and annoying that if she has to listen to him talk about his new shovel and play that same country music album one more time she is going to go CRAZY. So, she would be thinking about how to tell him it’s over. Oh, she is sure of THAT, but, timing is important. She really, really, wants to go to the senior prom. And there isn’t time to get another date. She could just not go, but, she already bought her new dress. She could take it back, but, she really likes it and her mom won’t let her keep it if she’s not going to the prom in it. And….
Aren’t you glad you asked me that? lololol
Take care, down there.
#(:))
Chimp: You don’t need to tell me that I got the plot of the movie wrong. I never saw that movie and I was just having fun making something up.
Janice, you’re brilliant! 🙂 . . . still laughing, thanks! 😀
Pat: You are TOO kind. Thank you. Very glad I could make you laugh.
One should always chew with their mouth shut. It is not only good manners it makes one look more intelligent.
You are correct, Mr. Job.
Here is what that young woman would say to that: As if.
Heh. 🙂
She just figured out that all of the derivatives of Y = exp(-1/x^2) are zero at x = 0 so now she’s trying to figure out how the hell, it every gets to anywhere else !!
Climate Ca Ching is real, it’s happening right now, but thanks to Trump it’ll be less burdensome on U.S. taxpayers.
If only A.G. Sessions would apply RICO to AGW Climatologists. As a Taxpayer who’s money was wasted on known Fraudulent Science started by one Man’s Hockey Stick Chart; I want to see AGW Climatologists lose their positions, their pensions, and spend some time staring at vertical bars.
. . . Climate Ca-Ching . . brilliant R.Shearer. . . Permission to steal and redistribute!
Everyone is still free to come up with an alternative to fossil fuels if they so choose. Nobody is preventing that from happening.
But Steyer, Musk, Gore, etc. can’t risk “their” billions.
Of course not–they’re greedy socialists sponging off taxpayer funds. If they were alpha males, they’d put their money where their mouths are.
Natgeo: the planet will be covered by dead trees! They didn’t get the memo that over the last decade forest cover has expanded 14%! This new forest (and the rejuvenated old) are more drought resistant, and the massive sequestration of ‘carbon’ is an endothermic (cooling) activity. Moreover creation of biomass through C-sequestration is exponential overlayed on a n~approximately linear addition to atmosspheric. Apparently zoo plankton increase likely dwarfs land effects. Henry’s Law is shrinking back to a supporting role in the carbon cycle.
It would be nice if our more analytical friends like Willis, or Rud would take on such an analysis of the attenuation of CO2 growth in the atmosphere and even the” Le Chatelier” negative feed back of the endothermic rapid growth of plants and sea organisms. With the ‘Pause’ like hysteria of the drowning climate rats vis a vis greening, it must be bigger than even we thought!
Truly amazing, to me, is the rank vitriol displayed by these Algorians. These folks are dangerous. They throw one or two blanket statements at you, then when you don’t bite, out come the fangs, the spewed insults, and the mindless hate. So scary that there are so many of them.
And, and, for the most part, these people you are talking about are the ones who constantly preach the importance of tolerance.
What’s with that?
Complaining about Trump is just another form of Virtue Signalling.
Obama (and other Western Leaders) signing on to the Paris Accord was also Virtue Signalling.
Their signalling would cost working Americans trillions!
That shows you how much the Left ‘cares’ about you (not a whit – it’s all about themselves, vain and narcissistic douchebags).
Pruitt on withdrawing from the Paris climate deal
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5456706919001/?#sp=show-clips
Far Left Liberals are now committing political suicide….After supporting Hillary, I never thought they could get, any lower …Silly me….MAGA !!
I’m heartened that Steyer, Rockefeller brothers, Soros and other Champagne Socialists and neomarxbrothers dropped billions on Hillary winning (sponsorship and investment in ‘sure things’ ), and then took another hit on green investments! These guys’ business strategies based on perpetual anti-American, total¡тая¡аи, elitist dystopian models.
The joy, which had been sucked out of life by these ugly corrupt people, rushes in and makes one giddy. Oh yeah! What I like is that the Pres is undertaking the first real empirical study of the real effect of CO2 on temperature. The deceitful anti – science CAGW oppressors have been fighting a rear guard, data manipulation scheme they hoped would hold back the truth until the Parisite Accord started sucking out the cash and they could claim when the temp only went up 0.6C that it was their doing. Now it will be below this level and Trump will be the guy that lthe the theory was wrong. Their will be no Nobel Prize for Trump, but failure to get this degraded prize is becoming a recognition of its own.
If CO2 were a problem, we could worry about it.
Being from Oklahoma, I am extremely pleased with how Scott Pruitt has handled his new position as EPA head. He was ready for every question he got in his Senate hearings and every question in this interview. I really had no idea that he could do this job. But then when I think of who his predecessor was, she really didn’t set the bar very high.
Wow what a wonderful day!
Where’s my hockey stick????
At this rate, Trump Tower may need to add some beach cabanas in 1,700 years.
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8518750
I was originally a sceptic and I supported Trump and hoped he would end the Paris Agreement.
Then I saw a GIF of a sulky girl putting a box over her head!
Can anyone lend me an 18-wheeler? I need to haul in lots more popcorn.
Heads exploding everywhere because they can’t throw away trillions of dollars which, if AGW theory was correct (which it isn’t) and if all the Paris signatories kept their promises (which they won’t) would have slowed the rate of warming by the end of the century by an amount of… well, too small to measure with any great confidence.
A triumph of common sense over ideological dogma!
“would have slowed the rate of warming by the end of the century by an amount of… well, too small to measure with any great confidence.”
And on top of that, it is all speculative, as there is currently no evidence that human-caused CO2 is increasing the temperature or changing the climate.
Our response FU
glad everyone thinks it’s so much better to put billionaires’ wallets and 500 coal jobs ahead of tens of thousands of clean energy jobs, international leadership, public health, moral responsibility, and the future of the planet.
You might have a point, IF:
1) future of the planet were at stake
2) there was a moral issue involved
3) there were a risk to public health
4) AGW was not about U.N. power & control over countries & people
5) clean energy jobs were not an oxymoron
6) Go’n Green wasn’t already stuffing wallets of rich like Gore.
I’m actually really curious how “clean energy jobs” is an oxymoron? Congratulations, I don’t think I’ve ever heard an argument that stupid before. I’m also pretty sure Gore being rich doesn’t offset all the fossil fuel companies raking in billions, while receiving government subsidies and tax breaks and wrecking the planet with oil spills, methane leaks, and polluted water.
“I’m actually really curious how “clean energy jobs” is an oxymoron? ”
Because so-called Clean Energy Jobs have impact on Environment. Conveniently, AGWers ignored negative effects of resources used to manufacture Solar and Wind power, install said systems, and Life-cycle (retirement of systems). AGWers, also ignored issue of storing generated energy for when wind is insufficient or sun isn’t shinning. Battery storage has shown to be harmful both in making and disposal of.
As for fossil fuel companies raking in billions with tax breaks, care to guess who makes most profit from gallon of gas? It is Federal Government.
PD,
Wow. I have never heard such a misinformed/malinformed/intentionally propagandized/ idiotic statement.
Let’s take apart this bit of assininity one statement at a time:
Oil Spills/methane leaks: You do realize the ocean absorbs millions of barrels a year (or more) of these substances from natural seeps in the ocean floor? Earth has these little things called bacteria that eat the heck out of hydrocarbons. They live in water, and dirt and probably even less so in the air. Just so you know that is a natural process that happens all the time.
While no one is advocating intentionally spilling oil in the drinking supply water, you do know that oil and water really don’t mix and will readily separate out? Basic chemistry really about the general shape of the bonds. It isn’t the oil and gas industry you need to worry about on water pollution – bacteria deal with the leakages and greed causes the industry to stop the flow and seal the leaks very quickly. You want to worry about water pollution – go talk to the EPA. First they mandated additives that turned out not to be very healthful when mixed in water, then they blamed the companies they so mandated. Also they were the ones that released a mine full of heavy metals into the environment that was well contained in the mine.
About fossil fuel companies “raking in billions”: Government makes more money on a gallon of gasoline or diesel fuel than the oil companies – when one does volumes in the hundreds of billions of units, one makes a large amount of money. That is one of those truths of economics that people of a socialist, world -dominion bent don’t seem to understand.
About “subsidies” and “tax breaks” for fossil fuels companies: You don’t know you hind end from a howitzer! There are literally NO subsidies for fossil fuel companies (at least not in the US) unless you are a socialist, world-dominion minded person who thinks all money belongs to the government and they, through their great benevolence, allow us to keep some of the money we so stridently fought for. The learned paper that stated the 5 Trillion dollars in subsidies started from the latter premise – thus concluding that virtually ALL fossil fuel profits were “subsidies”. As for “tax breaks” fossil fuel companies use the same equipment capitalization rules all other manufacturers use to write off the costs of doing business. That isn’t a tax break. Writing the tax code so GE could make almost as much money as Exxon did yet GE received straight up rebates and NO tax liability for almost a decade is a tax break (by the way GE did nothing wrong – they got the best tax code their cronies could provide).
So far nearly all “clean energy” companies have crashed and burned fantastically, but not before taking away and distributing to their already quite wealthy cronies, billions of dollars of tax payer funds. So yes, “Clean Energy Jobs” is an oxymoron UNLESS you are using it in the same manner you would use “snow job”!
The coal industry employed 76,572 people in 2014, the latest year for which data is available.
“Clean energy”, not so much, and all subsidized by the taxpayers and rate payers.
The planet is doing much better thanks to having one extra molecule of plant food per 10,000 dry air molecules in its atmosphere, ie four rather than just three a century ago.
IF clean energy becomes competitive with UNICORN FARTS, it will fund itself. Right now it costs about the same as unicorn flatulence and yet produces even less energy.
Clean Energy jobs will come when “clean energy” can actually produce reliable, grid-scale energy at a price that doesn’t pauper Midas. If special subsidies are needed, it isn’t competitive.
Your class warfare argument is a tell that you are really in this for the control and redistribution rather than any understanding of either climate or economics.
CO2 emissions have nothing to with public health. Fuel poverty on the other hand is a real and serious problem in very many countries — including the UK.
The main cause of fuel poverty in the UK is high (natural) gas prices and poor pensions.
griff, fabricating fantasy , yet again.
grimm bros would laugh at your pitiful fairy tales.
The main cause of fuel poverty in the UK is government interference in a free market and high taxation, plus loading up the requirements for ordinary householders to pay for very expensive, intermittent “renewable energy” such as wind and solar and connecting it to the grid (the hidden “infrastructure upgrade” cost) plus spinning reserve.
Project start in 2017 levelised electricity generation costs per MWh in the UK (data from Mott MacDonald):
Gas CCGT: £65 / MWh
ASC Coal: £60 / MWh
Nuclear PWR: £65 – £100 / MWh
Onshore Wind: £85 / MWh nominal PLUS £60 / MWh for addl system costs and planning reserve = £145 / MWh
Offshore Wind: £113 / MWh nominal PLUS £67 / MWh for addl system costs and planning reserve = £180 / MWh
So coal and gas power generation are almost the same cost at about £65 / MWh. That makes coal and gas less than the half (45%) the cost of onshore wind and nearly one third (36%) of the cost of offshore wind.
As for solar…in the UK…in winter…don’t make me laugh!
pd2413,
First, let me congratulate you on your quick Straw Man Attack, but it wasn’t very effective. See it’s not a “billionaires’ wallets and 500 coal jobs” vs. your list of talking points. What it is, is NOT sending $100B per year of US taxpayer money to wasteful UN organizations and rent-seeking money-grubbing plutocrats.
Nothing about not giving huge sums of money away prevents anyone from doing the things you listed as being important. Lefty billionaires can still throw money at renewables and create those tens of thousands of clean energy jobs — that’s a thing called “capitalism,” wherein a person invests his own money in a financial venture, and reaps the rewards when things go well.
“International leadership”? I’d say the US just showed great leadership, by showing the way out of a wasteful wealth-redistribution scheme that wouldn’t have actually done anything toward “stopping climate change.”. It’s certainly not leading by following the pack; one leads by stepping out where no one else is going.
“Public health, moral responsibility, and the future of the planet” totally ignore the facts on the ground. Cold kills more than warm does, and more CO2 in the air just makes plants grow better. As the holder of a degree in Geology, I can tell you with certainty that there is no “runaway greenhouse” scenario in Earth’s climate. We’ve been at higher CO2 concentrations by far on Earth without such a thing occurring, and if it didn’t happen back in the Cretaceous, it won’t happen now.
It’s morally Irresponsible to waste so much money on something that could only have a statistically insignificant effect on global temperature. It’s morally Irresponsible to condemn millions of people in developing nations to death because of the lack of cheap, dependable electricity. That’s where the crime lies.
That “$100Billion” per year is just for starters, too–it soon climbs to $450 Billion per year, or about 2.5% of the GDP.
And to put that in perspective, the US economy under Obama never grew at 2.5%; it was far less.
The critical point is that unless the US economy grows at 3% or better, it can’t attract investment capital so it eventually stalls.
Sending an amount equivalent to our economic growth to tin-horn dictators would be national suicide.
If clean energy were efficient, it would actually get rid of jobs; not make more work for everyone.
Making more jobs is a sure sign of lower efficiency.
G
Thanks Anthony, Steve Mc, Ross, Roger, Judith, Willis, Tim and many more. This act, in effect by, the President of the Free World in withdrawing from an agreement for the United States to drink Kool Aid is in my opinion the result of the sacrifice you have all made in confronting the Totalitarians hiding behind the Global Warming Scare.
Thank-you, and I hope the dominos initially knocked over by ‘Surface Stations’ and the ‘Starbucks Hypothesis’ continue to fall.
Yes!
The BBC has been using the faked blackened smoke stack image that wattsupwiththat exposed in this article in 2011. It has been used all day on three different links on the home page. Not all at the same time though. See third,fifth and sixth image at this link.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/25/photoshopping-in-the-worseness/
If alarmists hadn’t already used up their supply of superlatives then they might have some left to make people think they actually had something new to say….but we’ve heard it all before.
Will they learn anything from the failure of previous exaggerations? History suggests not.
Great but they’re taking over in education, bureaucracy and increasingly commerce in most Western nations.
BHP (World’s biggest miner) . . . new boss is an AGW fraudster!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-01/bhp-boss-tells-donald-trump-to-stay-in-paris-agreement/8581152
Trump just won for USA yet other nations are increasingly oppressed by AGW fundamentalists with vested interests.
,
For extra enjoyment I recommend taking a look at the Guardian website today. The outrage and resentment are delicious to behold!
Unemployment in France is now 10%, guvuhmint debt, as % of GP, is 90%, social welfare
% of GP is 31.5%. So much for EU Brusselmen policies. Alas poor Paris…
Total net debt about 600% if you take into account off-balance sheet unfunded pension and health liabilities, similar to US and a bit more than UK and EU average.
https://twitter.com/JohnFugelsang/status/870407368709992450 <– here's another log for the fire.
Steyer:
Try less than zero. That might do it.
(I think he meant overestimate)
Remembering Bob Carter. I wish he were here to see it. It might have been the happiest day of his life since his kids were born. 🙂
True words, we all miss him.
I live in a third world country – Australia.
Being impoverished, I do not have a twitter account.
Thank you President Trump.
Mate, even if you did, your Internet connection would be too slow to make it work anyway….
Roll on NBN….. Oh, wait…
I just visited Port Douglas. Wonderful place.
Interweb though, Third World, seriously.
No, scrub that, even Cuba had better Internet than Port Douglas. For real.
It’s a good thing Al Gore ‘invented the Information Superhighway’ though /sarc
It’s a an embarrassment for our great country. The only thing that stops there being a national uproar is the fact that all our politicians are such a bunch of purile squabbling dimwits that they overshadow the other problems entirety.
Millions of Australians are unaware that if and when the NBN arrives in their street/house they will have no choice but to sign up as the existing network will be shutdown.
Um, Twitter is free.
You get what you pay for.
They are mad because they are losing their sugar daddy. And poor Americans will not be taxed more for the energy they use. At least not federally.
Anthony, with Trump’s announcement today, there appears to be a lot of activity on your website, which may continue over the next few days. It would be interesting to see a graph of the number of visits to your site sometime during the next week or two – like you did when Glimategate occurred.
” over the next few days.”
.
You are spot on NOAA…this site needs help: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wattsupwiththat.com
You should also look at realclimate. They REALLY need help:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/realclimate.org
or maybe “skeptical science”
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/skepticalscience.com
The there’s Bill McKibben’s 350.org
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/350.org
Or…maybe the crazy uber stalker of mine, “Sou” aka Miriam O’Brien
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/hotwhopper.com
By your definition, they all need help, far more so than I.
Posting the stats on realclimate, skeptical science, 350 or Sou’s sites, doesn’t change the facts that this site has “issues”
“that this site has “issues””
Yes, they allow fools like you to keep posting child-minded nonsense.
AndyG55, when “fools” like me post, it increases the traffic count.
[The mods point out that engarpia has only 19 posts, David Dirkse 1, and Michael Darby only 41 posts.
(Of the 2,067,317 posts on WUWT, there are more spam posts automatically removed every hour than these three aliases have totaled.) We do not need the traffic count, but do require that each writer only user one name. (Unlike democrat voters.) .mod]
YAWN..
The only worthwhile thing you have ever done. !!
engarpia, uh no….
Global warming has issues….no one gives a flying
Sure, here you go from my internal dashboard
Here’s hoping for 200K!
Would be well-deserved.
Thanks, Anthony! It looks just as I anticipated – headed towards a nice hockey stick!
Had 245K lon May 15th
You think a 3 or 4 day blip is going to reverse a steady dive since the beginning of the year? I now understand why you are immune to the comprehension of statistics.
Engarp,
Clearly it’s you who are arithmetically challenged.
Please see our host’s comment on his numbers in the middle of this month.
So much for “steady decline”.
You can’t handle the truth. Obviously. Nor do you have the least interest in apprehending it.
Just a suggestion: It might be a great thank-you to President Trump to have someone go through the postings on this site that just deal with whether or not he was going to pull out of the Paris Agreement, and choose some of the better supportive comments – as well as some of the negative – and pull them together with pictures and editorial comments into a nice book – hardcopy & electronic – and give it to him as a gift.
Meant middle of last month, obviously.
But expect similar numbers this month as well.
Sorry, Engarp, but you’re on the losing side of reality, history, truth, justice and the American Way!
Chimp, the “truth” is that a 14 day graph isn’t very good at showing long term trends. Try looking at 6 months or 12, you get a better handle on the trend. It’s the same reason the long term warming trend in our climate isn’t shown very well when you only look at the effects of the diminishing El Nino that has been occurring lately.
Engarp,
When I look at longer term trends, I see that the late 20th century warming was about the same as the early 20th century warming and much less impressive than the early 18th century warming.
There is no human fingerprint, hence the null hypothesis can’t be rejected, and there is nothing to worry about. Just enjoy all the added verdancy, thanks to man-made CO2. Mother Nature thanks us.
engarpia@gmail.com wrote:
> You think a 3 or 4 day blip is going to reverse a steady dive since the beginning of the year?
Alexa (I assume that’s what you’re referring to) doesn’t see all the activity here. WordPress does, and I log the total page view counter daily at my Guide to WUWT, see http://wermenh.com/wuwt/monthly.html
WUWT has averaged about 100K views per day for quite a while. I expect it to tail off as people become lose interest in CAGW, but Anthony’s style and light moderation has done a great job keeping viewers here.
I’m not sure what happened with the mid-May peak, my own site had a huge number of hits, mainly from search engines, too. Rather odd.
At any rate, please learn more about how WUWT is structured and the people who’ve been here for nearly its entire existence before you write us off. We’ll be here a lot longer than you.
A swing and a miss Chimp….
Comparing 2 weeks to 2 years is a 50:1 ratio
You need to compare 7500 years to 150 years to achieve the same ratio. (as we have 150 years of an instrumental record)
..
What proxy will you use?
Engarp,
All proxies show that earth has been cooling for 3000 to 5000 years, and continues to do so long term.
There is no human fingerprint in GASTA since WWII. Zero, zip, nada, zilch.
You lose.
Ric Werme: “Alexa….doesn’t see all the activity”
…
They don’t have to, all they need is the data they get from the tracking beacons. It’s the same idea when doing a random sample of “likely voters” in an upcoming election. Pollsters don’t need to ask EVERY single voter to get a handle on reality, a sample of 1000 gets one pretty close to the population mean.
Chimp, thermometers don’t measure fingerprints, they measure temperature.
..
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from:1945/plot/gistemp/from:1945/trend
…
How do you explain it?
[????? .mod]
engarpia: ” … Pollsters don’t need to ask EVERY single voter to get a handle on reality, a sample of 1000 gets one pretty close to the population mean.”
Like all the biased pollsters touting a Hillary win? Oh, I forgot, you guys still think that the Russians stole the election away from her.
noaaprogrammer, too bad your political views obscures your comprehension of mathematical statistics.
…
PS, I get a chuckle out of your reference to ” you guys “…..too much tribalism on your part.
“engarpia@gmail.com June 1, 2017 at 8:39 pm
Chimp, thermometers don’t measure fingerprints, they measure temperature.”
Not directly they don’t. I will leave it to you to work out why.
Patrick MJD you are correct, thermometers do not directly measure fingerprints.
“engarpia@gmail.com June 1, 2017 at 9:24 pm”
Or temperature…
“Chimp, thermometers don’t measure fingerprints”
In the case of GISS, they very much measure the effect of human fingerprints.
Human fingerprints is just about all they show, those sticky fingers of the climate tarts at NOAA/NCDC:
Gavin, Tom Karl, and Hansen. !!!
[snip crude and stupid, and from a coward with a fake name one more like that and you are banned from commenting- AW]
A flaming case of Trump Derangement Syndrome!
Possibly a Moveon.org troll, into the bargain.
I’m anonymous, too, but forced to be so to protect the workers in my company from boycotts by the CACA convinced.
“COWARD”
.
.
engarpia@gmail.com
…
You lose.
“COWARD”
.
.
https://twitter.com/wattsupwiththat/status/406298804950798336
…
You lose.
cry-baby !!
Actually, no “coward” is a description of an action, i.e. hiding behind a fake name, using multiple identities. Dictionary.com defines it: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/coward
noun a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.
I’ll grant that [you] seem not to be easily intimidated, but that’s really only because you hide behind the safety of anonymity, or at least you think you do. There’s always an electronic trail.
“asshole” on the other hand, is defined as a vulgar noun. It’s a pejorative term.
noun, Vulgar.
1. anus.
2. Slang. a stupid, mean, or contemptible person. the worst part of a place or thing.
adjective
3. Slang. stupid, mean, or contemptible.
So, it’s actually you who loses the argument. If I had used a pejorative term, you’d have a point, but as it stands, you have none. You doubly lose for using multiple aliases here, which truly is the mark of a coward.
If you think calling someone a “coward” is not pejorative, please be advised that you would not want to meet me in a dark alley without a firearm.
…
Unsubstantiated accusations of the form: “You doubly lose for using multiple aliases here” earns you special treatment!!!!
[??? .mod]
“…please be advised that you would not want to meet me in a dark alley without a firearm.”
OK that’s it, you’re banned for making veiled threats, per our blog policy. All future comments from you go straight to the trash.
In addition to multiple aliases, you also use multiple proxy servers around the world to hide your identity. Right Dave, or is it Randy?
We have it all logged.
Too funny! Had a work mate of mine here mention, in an alarming way, that Trump had pulled the USA out of the Paris agreement. I said, well the USA didn’t sign the agreement, only Obama as he did not pass it through congress, so it’s meaningless. Then I asked how much CO2 did he think was in the air. He said 20%. Kid you not! I said it’s 0.04% and only ~4% of that is due to us.
Warmunists are usually innumerate. One of them was telling me that the increase in CO2 from 300 to 400 parts per million was going to lead to disaster. I replied that there were now 4 molecules rather than 3 of CO2 per TEN THOUSAND. He looked stunned.
Yes… but at that level and with that level of contribution from us it still has an effect.
Sometimes things in small proportions do have an effect.
“Griff June 2, 2017 at 4:51 am”
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I’m afraid I don’t know how to spell a Bronx Cheer although I confident that covfefe ain’t it. Any way PFTTTTTTTTTTTTT! to the UN and the Paris Accord. It has become evident during my lifetime (stretching from the ‘resolution’ of the Korean conflict to the present day) that ‘UN’ stands for Unabashed Numbskulls, or perhaps Unimportant Nincompoops.
Thank you President Trump. You did the right thing and for the right reason. The science does not exist to support the Paris Accord.
Seriously, dead trees everywhere? Weren’t there studies just done on how much greener the earth is getting? Something about the increase in number of trees? Of course the spin on that was that it was bad. The climate change people are total fruit cakes. California is going to go with China on carbon agreements. I don’t think there is any clearer case of let me try to wrap my head around this one. I know, let’s crow about how China is going to scrap plans for 100 or 200 coal fired plants that are planned to be built…. but leave off that there are still going to build about 2000. And lets not mention that they stopped all wind and solar projects in the country. Oh, and to all the believers out there, you don’t think the kind of language that is being used about Trump and people that are skeptics, isn’t that close to hate speech? You’re calling me a criminal, on what grounds? Your over blown belief that the world is going to end? Which prediction that was made in 2001 ( or the numerous others made since) has occurred when you first started using that language? None. Not ONE. But my oh my, if a skeptic should ever call a true believer stupid or an idiot. Trump was elected to get us out of the Paris Climate scam. As if there was any debate about global warming. The science was settled as soon as the original records landed in a Denmark landfill.
By the way, thank you President Trump and all the many people who think climate change is a scam.
“And lets not mention that they stopped all wind and solar projects in the country”
But they didn’t. China is building solar and wind faster than ever.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/china-solar-power-output-increase-80-per-cent-three-months-renewable-energy-source-a7719021.html
“China electricity output from photovoltaic plants rose 80 per cent in the first quarter after the world’s biggest solar power market increased installed capacity”
(and you’ll note they are building it faster than the grid connections to use all of it)
and note this:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-to-halt-construction-on-coal-fired-power-plants-in-15-regions/
“China will stop the construction of coal-fired power plants in 15 regions as part of its efforts to tackle a capacity glut in the sector, the country’s energy regulator said on Thursday, confirming an earlier media report.”
China is exceeding its Paris commitment…
“China is exceeding its Paris commitment…”
What, of not doing anything until 2030 ???
You do know they already had over 20% renewables, don’t you griff.
Or are you ignorant of that, just like you are of everything else.
Thankfully, China is going full ahead with coal fired power, not only in China, but in many other countries. doing the job the World Bank and IMF should have done.
India, Pakistan, Africa, Vietnam, Indonesia.. etc etc….. all making great advances in the installation of coal RELIABLE fossil fuel electricity.
No Andy… in stopping CO2/coal power stations before 2030.
China has cancelled over 100 power stations and banned new ones in 14 regions of the country.
India cancelled 13.4 GW of power stations in the last month (including 1 ‘ultra mega’ power plant). It won’t authorise any more new applications for new plants till after 2022 now.
Vietnam just signed a deal for a large onshore wind farm
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps those UNBUILT Coal Fired Power Plants were only planned so that they could be cancelled thereby giving China the appearance of doing something, so China COULD say “See, we do care”. The unbuilt stations were likely preplanned to be unbuilt.
Why do we have 2 entirely separate accounts of what China is doing? Mine is from NHK World from Japan.
I’m going to retract NHK World, it might have been Blue Ocean Network. Your quote on stopping the 134 coal fired plants in the 15 regions is exactly what I said. They are cutting back, but you are leaving off the 2000 or so that are still going to be built. And yes, there was a directive to stop ALL wind and solar projects in China. Perhaps your sources are confused.
All those nations that signed up for GDP income re-distribution will now have to figure out how to make a living on their own. Just like the rest of us. Call 1-800-Waa-Waaa.
I was honestly waiting for an argument. I really did read all the twitter nonsense all the way to the end, I thought there might be some rational discussion but it was all fluff, all the way down.
It was a silly idea to begin with. It had no scientific justification and it was not just economically damaging to the US, it was economically damaging to the entire world. With the exception of the folks on the down low doing the raking in, everyone in that deal lost.
To be perfectly honest, I never expected Trump to do this. The money is on the other side of the bet. He did the royal progress and apparently came up empty; no one was willing to put up. OK. Done. Form was honored. But really, I thought he’d cave. There’s a pretty big investment in AGT right now. It took serious brass balls to stand up against it.
Good for you Donald. This may very well be the beginning of your legacy.
“Good for you Donald. This may very well be the beginning of your legacy.”
And end of Obama’s.
In a sense it is all due to the creation of the 20th century mass market. Crying wolf brings in big bucks.
Eugene WR Gallun
covfefe !!!!!!!!!!!
Viva la TRUMP and freedom !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make America Great Again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, the comment section on this one is so long I don’t know if anybody will ever read this or not, but here goes anyway.
A copy of the Paris Agreement can be found here:
https://unfccc.int/files/meetings/paris_nov_2015/application/pdf/paris_agreement_english_.pdf
On page 15, Article 28, we find the following language:
Article 28
1. At any time after three years from the date on which this Agreement has entered into force for a Party, that Party may withdraw from this Agreement by giving written notification to the Depositary.
2. Any such withdrawal shall take effect upon expiry of one year from the date of receipt by the Depositary of the notification of withdrawal, or on such later date as may be specified in the notification of withdrawal.
3. Any Party that withdraws from the Convention (i.e., United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change) shall be considered as also having withdrawn from this Agreement.
On page 1, Article 1 (c), we find that the word “Party” means “a party to this agreement”.
On Sept. 2016 USA , former president, Obama, claiming his power in a sole executive order, entered the United States into the Paris agreement, WITHOUT any consultation or approval from the Senate to bind the USA for the required four-year period of the agreement, … in effect extending his presidential claim to sole executive order four years PAST his elected term, and disabling his successor from being a party to the party of which he claimed to represent in the agreement.
I’m no lawyer, but this seems to be a clear instance of overreach and attempted obstruction of a future president’s claim to the same exective power to properly commit his country to such an agreement with such a long period of commitment.
No senate approval was ever sought or received to commit the whole country to an agreement of such a binding four-year stay. There WAS no “party”, except a party of one named “Obama”. This alone seems to make the USA’s membership status in the agreement a limp … well, … you know.
A (surprisingly) good article about how the Agreement was crafted to not need Senate approval is at http://www.greenclimate.fund/projects/browse-projects . It concludes with:
Find it interestingly Hypocritical that Left considers Obama had absolute sole authority to sign the agreement (setting aside required Senate approval), while claiming Trump has zero authority to block entry of people from specific countries, regions, or states based on 1952 Immigration & Nationality Act (U.S. Law).
“Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate,”
PS: “I don’t know if anybody will ever read this or not,” — somebody did… 😉
“He may *by proclamation*, and for such period as *he* shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of *all* aliens or *any* class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens *any* restrictions *he may deem to be appropriate*,”
Now what about that wording is hard to understand? It says the president can keep any non-citizen from entering the country for any reason HE determines is appopriate. The decision is the sole discretion of the president.
The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals says the president can’t do the above. The law says different. The Supreme Court will overturn the Fourth Circuit if it upholds the U.S. Constitution. The law couldn’t get any plainer. The dissenting Federal judges have dragged in inappropriage laws in an effort to thwart Trump, for partisan political reasons.
If the Supreme Court does not overturn this ruling, then we are in serious constitutional and national security trouble.
The wording is so plain on this law that I would expect more than a 5-4 vote in favor of overturning.
The judges on the Fourth Circuit who overruled Trump’s travel ban ought to be removed from office for incompetence.
See, someone did read your post. 🙂
If I had the power, I would make Obama honor the financial commitments he agreed to using his own money now that he is a private citizen again.
This shouldn’t be a surprise to the left. Although they were surprised when Trump was elected. He said he would do this and he did. It was to be expected. The election in 2020 will probably surprise those that think their propaganda is working well with the masses.
I often wonder why Tom Steyer isn’t the subject of a RICO investigation.
Why, in reference to Steyer, hasn’t anyone gone through his previous record as a Hedge Fund operator, that made billions on coal contracts in Southeast Asia? I read a long treatise on his history, but , for the life of me, cannot find it. A true snake-in-the grass…Someone always looking for a buck, no matter who, why , or what it violates, as long as he is in control, and can manipulate said parties. And now, doing the same in California. Had it been Trump, it would still be spoken of, and held against him.
One small step for trump..One huge leap for humankind…
Now if only he would stuff anti Russian hysteria up their collectivist arse’s I might become a fan-:)
You should look outside the US. Seeing quite a bit of fake concern for the US economy and power. Still, no one in (mainstream) media is questioning why doom&gloom climate science fails to predict anything with its “theory” (hypothesis really).
The left can’t handle it when someone keeps a promise . Great job President Trump .
Hillary (if you believe her ) claims the Democrats were near bankrupt and she saved them .
The reality is people like Steyer propped them up and bought the agenda . A soulless empty agenda that
helped Hillary lose . A closet Green party running as Democrats and people saw through it .
The sheer arrogance and self righteous of Democrat bag men and Hillary threatening coal workers ?
Guess Hillary let someone else operate her mouth too .
All the predictable hypocrites have now come out of the wood work because their cash dispenser just got shut off .
I must admit I like the Musk pout the best .
He is no longer going to bless the President with his valuable time. Oh what a loss . But why would he? The public cash register just closed and that is a big problem .
$Billions gone in ‘renewable ‘ flame outs after they cashed tax payer grant checks . That’s never talked about .
Those days are over and so are the ” renewable ” companies relying on tax payers to make their business .
The government, on behalf of tax payers, should go after “renewable ” corporate welfare bums to recover the money they ripped off .
++++++ 1 billion…(tax free)
“I must admit I like the Musk pout the best .”
That is rather delicious.
The President’s actions does not stop individuals from taking their own actions to lower their carbon foot print. People can learn to exhale less often. If you think that using fossil fuels is bad them stop making use of all goods and serviced that involves the use of fossil fuels that includes any products transported by forms of transportation that make use of fossil fuels. If your home is connected to a power grid that involves the use of fossil fuels then turn off the main breaker and leave it off. Remember it is your money that keeps the fossil fuel companies in business. Fossil fuel use came to being only in the last 200 years or so. You can always go back to living the way people did more than 200 years ago. Try living on a subsistance farm with no connection to the outside world and see how much better the Earth’s climate becomes.
Or you could work on a steady switch over from fossil fuel to renewables over a reasonable period.
for example, the EU target is 80% renewable electricity by 2050.
But no nuclear.
us civilized folks understand the importance of having the power on all the time, not just when the sun is out and the wind is blowing.
And most of us understand that 100% of any renewable power used has to be backed up by always-on-standby reliable sources…meaning gas or coal.
Jackasses refuse to discuss things while including all of the facts. Sane people prefer to look at the whole story.
For all those whiny celebrities that think the U.S. has given up its leadership in the world… guess what? This is what leadership looks like! i know most Americans haven’t seen leadership for about 8 years, but this is it. It’s doing the right thing even when nobody else is supporting you! If the President had signed on, the U.S. would just be another world follower, not leader.
At least Friday morning traffic should be light with all of the progressives not being able to face the world tomorrow with their dashed hopes of a ‘one world government’ where everyone joyfully marches in lock step in a back patting conga line to the gov’t freebie office, while shouting out in turn all of the wonderful imaginary things they’ve accomplished with their good feelings and promises to spend other people’s money.
ACLU National needs a strong mouthwash after their talk about racism with the mouth of the US party notorious for pro-slavery in the 19th century US. Perhaps the mankind can enjoy cleaner air afterwards.
Vatican a.k.a. Holy See should withdraw their political army from the international institutions. And the international institutions would be wise to take distance from churches. There have been enough societal scale realtime human experiments to know better.
These people are genuinely insane. Anyone who has any passing familiarity with the Ordovician or Cretaceous knows what the “planet” is capable of without the least bit of human input. Their utter ignorance, blind refusal to acknowledge the past, insistent hubris (we exist, therefore we must be the center of all earth’s mechanisms), and agressive hostility are truly frightening. I so long to scream “I have a doctorate in geology and you don’t know what the hell you are talking about”, but of course I don’t, because then I would hounded as some sort of “anti-science” denier Neanderthal…….
But what the climate did in the past does not preclude man also having an effect on the climate by adding CO2 to the atmosphere.
Isn’t it absolutely MARVELOUS to see than man is capable of helping the planet by returning a small part of the accidentally buried carbon back into the Carbon Cycle.
You know , griff, that cycle that sustains ALL LIFE ON EARTH.
CO2’s effects on plant growth aren’t its only impact…
And if man can’t influence the climate with the release of CO2, can he really influence the planet ?
It doesn’t preclude it, but it actually has to be scientifically proven first. It hasn’t.
BTW Griff, this in no way stops YOU and all your concerned friends from living a low carbon life, if you really believe. But I suspect you are all talk and no action.
Griff,
All by itself the planet took 6700 ppm of CO2 out of its atmosphere during the first half of the Paleozoic Era, then put back about half that amount in the second half and the Mesozoic. It continued adding until the Eocene Epoch of the Cenozoic Era, and since then has been generally lowering it, back to its present Carboniferous Period, ie ice age, levels.
We have added a single molecule per 10,000 dry air molecules to the three that were there a century ago.
Humans can have very little effect on our planet’s global climate, regardless of whatever minor local effects we might have.
CACA cultists imagine that Man truly is made in God’s image, with divine powers. capable of dominating all creation. What hoot!
“Donald Trump withdrawing from Paris agreement will be like slapping the Pope in the face, Vatican says”
Jesus said – turn the other cheek
What bloody cheek from an institution that Burnt Bruno at the stake and arrested Galileo for heresy.
The Pope needed a good slap in the face.
It is really hard to understand so many are so stupid ! I just wonder how the human race will evolve when people still believe in alarmism.
I think evolution will selectively eliminate their fantasy-following kind from the human gene-pool if they don’t wake-up to reality and get back in-tune with it in time, Rolf. That’s how the human race will evolve.
Anthony, I am sure that your website and you and all the contributors to it played a significant role in convincing large swaths of the populace that CO2 is necessary to life and that the global warming/climate change propaganda was/is just that…propaganda. Had you not dedicated hours and hours and hours over the years to get to the truth and to spread it, it is possible that Trump might not know it and might not have made today’s wise decision. I am very grateful to you. Thanks very much indeed!
Thank you, you are too kind.
True believers should simply stop exhaling as a protest against the impertinence of President Trump in single-handedly overturning the Obama-Paris treaty which was approved 100 to 0 in the Senate..
They should also add a new bumper sticker for the next Great Cause — STOP CONTINENTAL DRIFT!
Thank you Mr. Trump, thank you!
WHERE ARE THE SNOWLESS NORTHERN WINTERS?
The iceless Arctic summers? The gondolas sailing down Fifth Avenue past Macy’s and Trump Tower? Where is the rainlessness and devastating droughts wiping out forests, farmlands, plants and crops? Where are the coastal floodings displacing millions driving them to mountaintops? Where is the acidifying of the seas killing fish, marine life and all sea weed? And desertification, what happened with that? turning soil into dry lifeless sand where nothing can grow to feed man?
Unless CO2 was drastically cut by 2016 millions were to die from famines, plagues, floods and heat waves. What happened to all the destruction and death-the runaway extreme weather events-predicted expertly by the doomsday consensus? Thank God they were wrong and Armageddon’s not coming; and the world is greening and is pleasantly warming.
What President Trump did today is a sign: global warming alarmism is in its END TIME.
You might just get an iceless arctic ocean this summer. Do keep checking the extent graphs in between that popcorn munching.
[????? .mod]
Here’s the data for anyone that is interested:
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php
Meanwhile, Greenland Ice Cover is Yuuuuge !
http://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/
if Griff thinks Greenland is going to melt from a record high to nothing in a La Nina year, he might need to put the hashpipe down.
Ah, so it’s *migh* now? You were sure just a few months ago that it *WILL* iceless, just like Gore did in and around 2005 stated the ice would be gone in 5-7 years. Well it;s more than 7 years later and ice is still there.
Griff
Ice free Arctic?
Wake up and smell the covfefe!
Both MASIE and NSIDC show the SLOWEST May melt this century.
MASIE has current sea ice extent above that of 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015 and 2016
Come back to REALITY, little griff. !!
Moa I’m suggesting 2017 will see another record low in arctic sea ice extent… a record exceeding 2012 or even ‘ice free’ is still a real possibility, depending on how this year’s melt progresses.
(Mod: so many people here saying ‘get the popcorn out and watch the climate scam dissolve, I really thought you’d get it??)
Might/will – the probability is very high for a record in top 3, high for a 2012 plus, less than evens for ice free
The odds are close to 100% that the Artic will not be ice free.
Of course, they may be “ice free” though.
The odds are exactly 100% that a few weeks after the minimum, the ice will be growing fast because the sun has set for another six months up there, and it will be -40 to -60 below for most of the time in most of the places above the Arctic circle.
Griff…explain how large amounts of ice in the polar ocean is critical to human survival, will you?
Explain how a frozen wasteland that has fatally cold temps for most of the year is a good thing.
Please.
Do something useful for once, huh?
Menicholas, Griff
Every day after August 12 (at 78 degrees north latitude or higher), an “ice free” Arctic only means more heat loss into the Arctic air, then into the infinitely cold space.
Every day before April 2, an “ice free” (actually, an “lower ice than normal”) Arctic means more heat loss into the Arctic air, and then into the infinitely cold space.
Griff,
I bet you $100,000 that Arctic sea ice extent is higher this year than last year, let alone the record low of 2012.
Take it?
By which I mean September minimum.
Griff,
OK. Time’s up.
Wish you had taken the bet.
If you really were “sure” that this is going to be a record low year, as you’ve repeatedly said, then you’d have borrowed the money if you don’t have it.
BTW, Griff, Arctic sea ice extent on 2 June 2017 was higher than on that date in 2016, 2015, 2011, 2010 and 2006, ie five out of the past 11 years. Unless there are yet again cyclones in August, as in the low ice years of 2007, 2012, 2015 and 2016, you would “surely” have lost the bet you didn’t make. Maybe you knew that.
One small step for teh Donald, one slightly larger step for scientific truth.
We move towards scientific truth one step at a time. Anthony and many others have been tying to push the AGW bandwagon in the opposite direction for some time. It’s just slowing down now, not reversed its direction. MUCH more effort required to bring it to a stop and then get it going towards the truth.
Many thanks to Anthony and all other contributors in the blog-sphere and elsewhere for their efforts over many years. This is a good start and we can enjoy our Champagne/Prosecco/Bud or bucket fulls of snowflake tears for today. Tomorrow we need to get back to work, so when the hangover has gone please have a look at this for your bedtime reading next week:
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/New-Insights-on-the-Physical-Nature-of-the-Atmospheric-Greenhouse-Effect-Deduced-from-an-Empirical-Planetary-Temperature-Model.pdf
I note that people with money, who make real spending decisions, do not believe in catastrophic sea level rise.
In Soneva Jani, in the Maldives a new hotel has just opened – it is 8 feet above sea level. (and the sea is only 100m (300ft) away).
If you were going to invest millions in a new build, I guess you would check out the location quite well before committing a lot of money.
I wonder what these business people know that most world leaders do not?
From The Times
Can anybody say what is the climate impact of exploding lonely brain cells?
It’s hard to tell whether the exploding heads actually believe that the Paris agreement makes any sense, or they are simply latching on to this as another excuse for criticizing Trump. If these morons
realized that technology is headed for low emission energy production (via molten salt uranium/horium reactors) and transportation is on the cuff of a revolutionary switch to electric vehicle, they would realize the stupidity and total pointlessness of their “solutions” You’d think Elon Musk would know, but then, he is simply getting in tune with his customers. And he is not a native American.
I tend to agree, a while back I decided to estimate the cop21 impact if nations adhered fully to the agreement, and extrapolated behavior somewhat optimistically to 2050. I also have an estimate I prepared which includes fossil fuel resource limits. The difference between the two is 0.2 degrees C by 2050. I did it to work out the model logic and have the ability to do additional estimates as real life deviated from my asumptions. The results are in my blog here https://21stcenturysocialcritic.blogspot.com.es/2014/11/obama-china-europe-co2-plan-results.html
In case anyone still has any capacity left for a chuckle after the last 24 hours, it seems the EU offices in Europe decided it was a good protest against President Trump’s brilliant decision to leave their office lights on overnight (but in a tasteful green shade).
You can only gasp at the stunning stupidity of this – do these people really understand that using electricity , the production of which by any means , involves CO2 emissions? Or perhaps they think if it is produced by so-called green windmills it is like magic fairy dust with no impact on anything.
Meanwhile I want to add my appreciation of Anthony and WUWT in providing such an essential antidote to the insanity inflicted by the climate consensus lobby on the rest of us.
did they leave them on overnight?
France has laws limiting overnight leaving on of office lights and illuminations of landmarks…
According to the 1,760,000 hits on Google News for leaving green lights on overnight to “protest”, yes, they did leave them on overnight. Beginning to see that this is nothing but a scheme to redistribute wealth and undermine the sovereignty of nations?
There’s a light bulb joke in there somewhere.
… except the joke might start, “How many EU offices does it take to screw up a protest?”
Unicorn farts power the green EU lights. Burning unicorn farts produces no CO2, only the crazy gas that Progressives love to huff.
There’s a page on the BBC – it rumbles on about ‘5 things’ that would happen if/when the US dumps this thing. I can only remember 4, that’s plenty.
In a nutshell, ‘they’ were losing
1. US leadership/organisation
2. US setting a good example = Virtue signalling
3. US technology
4. US money
What an epic Buck Pass. *They* make an agreement (Paris) that the US does absolutely everything to save the planet/children/polar bears etc while they do what?
Diddly fooking Squat by the looks of it. ‘cept spend the money. Just great innit?!!
It is nice that they seem to hold the US in high esteem, or do they?
Equally arguable is that they take the US as suckers.
You’re well out of there on so many levels.
The World really is filling up with wimps = Weakly Interacting Massive People.
Less sophisticated folks than moi might say, fat, lazy, money-grubbing, selfish, hypocritical & mendacious gits.
I blame sugar/carbohydrate food so its not *really* their fault – or is it. Don’t eat sugar if you don’t want to.
Woohoo!
Why doesn’t a single one of these whining children seem to realize that not being part of the Paris Accord doesn’t prevent the US government, businesses or people from doing as much or more than the goals set by Obama’s NDC?
Can the US government still incentivize ‘green’ energy, less pollution (real pollution not CO2) and mitigation? Can they still give money/aid/technology to other countries for ‘green’ energy projects? Sure can.
Can US businesses still conduct research and innovate new and better energy sources? can they still reduce their energy use? Sure can.
Can the US people still push for ‘green’ energy, reduce electric use and be better ‘stewards’ of the environment? Sure can.
Pulling out of the Accord removes a bunch of unelected bureaucrats from the equation and acknowledges the reality that the solutions for one country may not be the same as the solutions for another country. It allows the US to decide how best to spend their own tax dollars and what the best course for the US is.
Kind of the definition of a free and democratic society. Guess some people just prefer oppression and socialism. maybe they should try living in Venezuela for a few weeks, see if their opinions change.
Well, yeah.
The Intended Nationally Determined Contributions (INDCs) weren’t legally binding and without the Paris accord, they still aren’t.
All over the alarmist media here in Australia with comments such as “We might slap a carbon tax on US exports/imports”. Alarmist heads popping everywhere. It’s a real hoot!
Do we know which route Trump is using to leave Paris? Is he canning the whole UN effort as well?
Apparently the Paris agreement withdrawl terms, NOT the withdrawl from the UN agreement route.
Trump said he was also withdrawing from the Green Climate Fund. That is under UNFCCC, not Paris, as a result of Copenhagen 2009. HQ was set up in Korea in 2010, long before Paris 2016. Paris only set notional annex 2 country funding aspirations for it. Therefore, Trump will exist UNFCC under Article 25 sections 1 and 2. One year only now from receipt of written notice. Article 25 Section 3 automatically also explicitly cancels Paris. And, Paris Article 28 section three also makes this explicit using mirrored language; it says withdrawing from UNFCCC automatically is withdrawal from Paris. Avoids the three year plus one wait year mess in Paris Article 28 sections 1 and 2. And only way to cancel GCF obligations. Looked this up (as a lawyer) in both documents to make sure.
Thanks. Good to know.
He did mention the GCF separately, toward the end of his speech, without making that distinction explicitly.
What is really terrible is a politician who stands by his pre-election pledges. /sarc off
400 billion dollars PER YEAR to anonymous UN agencies and no-one in the MSM smells a rat?
I guess you don’t smell rats if you are a rat.
Carbon dioxide – Making the planet green again!!
Anote Tong ex president of Kiribati has called lone Donald Trump versus the 195 other nations – many of which are probably mounting their armies of protesters at this very moment – “a classroom bully”
A bit like calling Anne Frank versus the Third Reich a thug?
Rand Paul Mocks Trump Critics on Paris Accord Withdrawal — ‘Mass Extinction, Really?’
Thursday on CNN, Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) said the reactions on the left to President Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Paris agreement on climate change were “alarmist” and “ridiculous.”
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/06/01/rand-paul-mocks-trump-critics-paris-accord-withdrawal-mass-extinction-really/
We’ve lost our fear of hellfire, but put climate change in its place
By Boris Johnson
12:01AM GMT 02 Feb 2006
“Billions will die,” says Lovelock, who tells us that he is not normally a gloomy type. Human civilisation will be reduced to a “broken rabble ruled by brutal warlords”, and the plague-ridden remainder of the species will flee the cracked and broken earth to the Arctic, the last temperate spot, where a few breeding couples will survive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3622794/Weve-lost-our-fear-of-hellfire-but-put-climate-change-in-its-place.html
Darn Nutella is foaming in the Grauniad https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2017/jun/01/donald-trump-just-cemented-his-legacy-as-americas-worst-ever-president
“However, withdrawing from the Paris treaty is an important symbolic move – a middle finger to the rest of the world, and to future generations. America is by far the largest historical contributor to climate change. Ironically, on the heels of Trump’s claim that most NATO members aren’t paying their fair share to the organization, America has announced that we won’t do our fair share to curb the climate change threats that we are the most responsible for.”
I’m trying to think of the threats
Sea level rise. Oh, wait, no. Polar bears. Oh, right, not that either. All of the world’s reefs destroyed. Oops! Increasing violence and numbers of storms. Uh. More devastating droughts? More flooding? Hotter nights? Colder winters? Longer summers? Earlier cherry blossoms? More colorful unicorn farts?
Nothing seems to fit. What are the threats? Please remind me.
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep04461
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/gbc.20027/full
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301598223_Greening_of_the_Earth_and_its_drivers
There are still a lot more Papers in this topic. The truth can not be suppressed in the long run. People such as Scott Pruitt, Donald Trump, and Anthony Watts are very grateful for the identification of the lies of the global AGW community.
Watching the heads of all the bleeding hearts exploding on the BBC this morning was oh so much fun. Not one gave any sort of rational reason just so much feeeeeeelings on show!
Who said that us Brits don’t show our emotions lol.
James Bull
Steyers is the most reprehensible. His greed and scam are so naked that only an complete moron would not see it. Which means most of the left do not.
Musk on the other hand seems calm and rational about it. He threatened to quit if Trump pulled out. He seems to be honoring his promise.
Musk quitting?
‘Kay, bye!
Musk’s quitting isn’t calm and rational. It’s acting like a baby.
Agree or disagree, Musk made a threat and carried it out. His actions are honorable. His threat may not be.
I haven’t seen anyone link HIllary’s criticisms relating to scuttling the Paris Agreement to the emerging reports that she sought a separate plane from Michelle Obama to fly to Betty Ford’s funeral.
I don’t like “nit-picking” such things and perhaps I don’t understand normal practices for the top “movers and shakers”, but there seems to be a strong disconnect between personal actions and support for mandates from environmentally concerned elites. Unfortunately the mandates hit the less advantaged hard, yet nonetheless support of them in so many mindsets seems to be strongly tied to virtue and opposition to such are labelled as selfishness.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/newly-released-email-clinton-asked-to-fly-on-separate-plane-from-michelle-obama-in-2011/article/2624746
The reactions are perfectly understandable once you realize that by withdrawing from the accord, the US under Trump has committed Climate Apostasy — the refusal to submit to Gaia Law.
Here’s an interesting point… the reasons for withdrawl were all ‘economic’, and nowhere did Trump mention that the science was wrong/warming not occurring or give similar as a reason for withdrawl.
He even mentioned that reducing the CO2 would only reduce the temp increase a little… so he clearly accepts CO2 can cause a temp increase and it looks like he accepts the science (just doesn’t want to pay the bill for reducing CO2)
Well Griff, apparently no one feels like wasting any of their valuable time responding to your ranting, and chastising you for your dopey shenanigans.
Me either.
I will just say that, in response to your inane comment, please go back and read some responses to any of your posts from weeks and months past.
And read them well this time!
And then consider yourself chastised.
I can see why you never think before posting Griffie. Trump saying nothing about the science does not affirm the science! Only a religious nut would think that! Should he ever pontificate on it, then we can deduce his views on it. However, he is not a scientist, and does not play one on TV! He is a business man, and hence why he talked about the business end of the accord.
Just because I do not go around all the time saying I do not believe in ghosts does not mean I believe in them!
THINK!
Hi Griff, you’ve been on this site for how long now and are still this clueless?
The solution has always been ADAPTATION, not income redistribution and Draconic measures. Very few people believe there is no human effect, particularly on this site.
The irony is that your cronies are obsessed with calling him a “denier,” yet you suggest he doesn’t “deny” anything.
The cost will be about 100 trillion dollars and by the end of the century, the change in global temperature will be a decrease of about .03°
100 trillion .03 degrees, seems a bit excessive.
If we continue to decrease coal use and with natural gas increase, much cleaner energy source, and doing nothing else, the increase in global temperature by the end of the century will be about .001°. This is the math using the models represented at the conference in France.
The sound of Snowflakes melting in the US and across the globe is deafening.
Only if the models are correct, and they are -most likely- not. It’s common sense against panic. Common sense prevailed.
There is no joy in climate Mudville tonight!
America dodged a very big bullet on Nov 8.
Next step: Understanding why the ghg CO2 has no significant effect on climate.
Now divide up a huge parcel of Earth’s atmosphere into cubes of 2500 molecules, and realize that these “cubes” are pushed around as particles themselves in an equally huge (or more huge) fluid dynamic flow that transfers heat.
If I were a CO2 molecule, then I’d be saying, “Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!” as I enjoyed the ride, even being so happy as to emit a tiny forced fart in this massive fluid flow. [What a commanding technical writing style he has !]
And that’s without any water vapor. Over much of the atmosphere, there would be 100 H2O molecules in the mix, doing the GHE heavy lifting.
Actually, the explanation of why the ghg CO2 has no significant effect on climate is that all absorbed energy is thermalized and the molecules exhibit/emit the energy (except for the absorbed energy which causes convection) according to the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution which favors the lower energy bands of water vapor. More at http://globalclimatedrivers2.blogspot.com
Vacuums IMplode.
Yabut, they’ve got all that green goo in there, and it has to go somewhere.
Trump’s U. S. withdrawal from the Paris Agreement is causing a lot more hot air to be expelled.
CONCLUSION: Whining causes global warming.
How’s the National Guard going dealing with the queues of panicked Hollywood types at the Canadian border? Do they have to pick odds and evens to ship half of them off across the Mexican border so they’re not being seen as xenophobic to the world looking on?
Moving to Canada instead of Mexico, or more precisely threatening to move to Canada instead of Mexico but not actually going anywhere…is not xenophobic.
Come on…get real.
It is racist!
Well I was just trying to identify with their feelings and offering them some safe space here without tossing around the R word cos that’s the type of guy I am 🙂
:In contrast to the outrageous comments noted above, try accessing Lawrence Solomon’s “rescued from Paris” and Terence Corcoran’s “good riddance to Globalism” in today’s Financial Post and Lomborg’s “A path Forward” in the Toronto Globe and Mail today – ironically across the page from Globe’s silly editrorial
Scott Pruitt was speaking at the daily press conference and he did a good job. A reporter asking Pruitt, claims that “NASA has said that 95% of the experts in this area around the world believe that the earth is warming”….. Did NASA actually say that?
The reporter goes on to say a little later in the same sentence , “you talk about climate exaggerators, it seems to a lot of people around the world that you and the president are just denying reality and the reality of the situation is that climate change is happening and is a significant threat to the planet”
The reporter just gave a perfect example of the exaggeration. He went from “95% of the experts in this area around the world believe that the earth is warming” to “climate change is happening and is a significant threat to the planet”.
He tired imply that NASA and 95% of the experts in this area around the world believe that climate change is happening and is a significant threat to the planet.
Meanwhile Macron has invited any and all Americans who are unhappy with Trump to relocate there, lectured Trump on his “error for the interests of his country, his people and a mistake for the future of our planet” and also called to “make the planet great again”:
https://qz.com/997328/the-world-could-punish-trump-for-quitting-the-paris-climate-agreement-by-imposing-carbon-tariffs-on-us-exports/
I think Macron should shut his pie hole.
“make the planet great again”
There’s no stopping these big vision types. Slaughterers of millions historically in the name of saving us all from something or other and leading us to the Promised Land.
Anthony – you’ve shared a list of posts of people who were unhappy with Trump’s decision. How about a list of folks that were pleased with the decision?
You only thought one reply was insane? They’re ALL insane. I’ve never in my life seen such a big deal made out of such an inconsequential decision. The only people it affects are those that won’t be receiving their scam-funding.
How is it that if one president can just sign us up for the Paris Agreement as an extension of a larger climate convention already ratified by the Senate that another president cannot just UNsign us up from that particular extension of a larger climate convention already ratified by the Senate ?
?raw=1
How about I proclaim that all countries of the world eat fewer Twinkies as a further step in carrying out the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. I mean, the Senate already ratified THAT treaty — I’m just tagging on the Twinkies thing as a specific measure of carrying out the Convention’s mission. What’s the damn problem?!
NOTE: For those readers outside the USA reading this, a Twinkie is a famous,commercially mass produced, American snack cake.
The Twinkies Protocol
… a historic move in uniting the world. It makes about as much sense as choosing carbon dioxide as the major demon to build the ideal of world cooperation (by battling a common foe). Isn’t it THIS ideal that is really causing all the insanity ?
Unite the world – great — good luck with that anyway — but choose Twinkies, NOT carbon dioxide.
That comment reminded me of the “Twinkie defense” in the Dan White murder case, where a former San Francisco Board of Supervisors blamed junk food for his murdering the Mayor and another Board member.
Beware the Tempestarii
In medieval lore, Tempestarii were weather making magicians who dwelt amongst the common people and possessed the power to raise or prevent storms at will. For this reason, anyone reputed as a weather-maker was the subject of respect, fear, and hatred in rural areas.
Perhaps the best known work on tempestarii was a 815 AD piece called “On Hail and Thunder” by a bishop, Agobard of Lyon.
Some describe it as a complaint of the irreligious beliefs of his flock, as villagers resented paying tithes to the church, but freely paid a form of insurance against storms to village tempestarii; but, it was also noted, whenever a supposed weather-maker failed to prevent a storm, he or she would generally suffer the wrath of the populace, being victimised or killed.
A closer examination of Agobard’s writing shows that he actually argues against the existence of weather-witches, but acquiesces that the saints of God are able to cause these things by praying with faith. He is more concerned with his flock’s misunderstanding that these “witches” are obtaining power from the devil, and subsequent eagerness to kill or curse anyone able to work miracles. His key argument is that anyone capable of “raising a gale” would be one who has faith in God, a Christian, not a witch, because witches are not able to do such things.
During the witch hunts the belief in witches who could raise storms was not limited to the Tempestarii. Depending on a witch’s preference, they were believed to cause tempests, hailstorms, and lightning. Witches struck homes and crops alike, sank ships, killed men and animals, and it was believed they took great delight in the process. Church authorities gave credence to the belief by stating that God permitted the Devil and witches to perform these acts as punishment for the wickedness of the world.
Since ancient times around the world, the ability to control elements—including the raising of storms and causing rain—has been attributed to magicians, shamans, sorcerers, and witches. As early as 700 A.D., the Catholic Church prosecuted sorcerers for causing storms.
The most famous storm believed to be caused by witches was recorded in 1591 during the North Berwick Witch Trials. John Fian and his alleged coven of witches were accused of raising a sea storm to drown James VI and Queen Anne on their way from Denmark.
…and…beware the “sue and settle” people. When will Trump be sued for doing this Paris thing? Meanwhile, CAGW has caused gophers to eat my onion starts and a tomato plant.
NGT was on the Jim and Sam Show a few weeks ago. I didn’t hear all of it and missed any bits revolving around climate change (if there were any). I heard mostly astrophysics and UFO stuff. He was personable and played well with the hosts.
At the very end of the show, they brought up Bill Nye. Apparently, if you revisit old “Bill Nye the Science Guy” episodes on Netflix, there is an episode where they removed Bill Nye talking about X and Y chromosomes and the determination of sex. NGT both defended Nye and played dumb, saying, “Oh, well maybe the science behind it has changed since then…”
It’s not science. It’s politics.
Dear World,
Sing it! It’s the end of the world as we know it! LOL
This is entertaining, and has to be listened to to appreciate. On NPR’s Morning Edition they interviewed Richard Branson, head of Virgin Group, can’t articulate any answer with details about why we should stay in the Agreement. The platitudes he does okay, technical stuff he’s completely tongue-tied.
http://nhpr.org/post/richard-branson-says-us-should-have-stayed-climate-pact
One of Pope Francis’s right-hand men “Crux” said ,,,
LOL. Crux is a website!
https://cruxnow.com/
Somebody, call a Wah…Wah…Wambulance for them. They seem to be suffering a severe case of crybabyitus. The gravy train just ran out of track.