By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
For my final broadcast to the nation on the eve of Britain’s Independence Day, the BBC asked me to imagine myself as one of the courtiers to whom Her Majesty had recently asked the question, “In one minute, give three reasons for your opinion on whether my United Kingdom should remain in or leave the European Union.”
My three reasons for departure, in strict order of precedence, were Democracy, Democracy, and Democracy. For the so-called “European Parliament” is no Parliament. It is a mere duma. It lacks even the power to bring forward a bill, and the 28 faceless, unelected, omnipotent Kommissars – the official German name for the shadowy Commissioners who exercise the supreme lawmaking power that was once vested in our elected Parliament – have the power, under the Treaty of Maastricht, to meet behind closed doors to override in secret any decision of that “Parliament” at will, and even to issue “Commission Regulations” that bypass it altogether.
Worse, the treaty that established the European Stability Pact gives its governing body of absolute bankers the power, at will and without consultation, to demand any sum of money, however large, from any member state, and every member of that governing body, personally as well as collectively, is held entirely immune not only from any civil suit but also from any criminal prosecution.
That is dictatorship in the formal sense. Good riddance to it.
I concluded my one-minute broadcast with these words: “Your Majesty, with my humble duty, I was born in a democracy; I do not live in one; but I am determined to die in one.”
And now I shall die in one. In the words of William Pitt the Younger after the defeat of Napoleon, “England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example.”
Indeed, No-way and Nixerland having already voted down the EU, Brexit may well be swiftly followed by Frexit, Grexit, Departugal, Italeave, Czechout, Oustria, Finish, Slovakuum, Latviaticum and Byebyegium. At this rate, soon the only country still participating in the European tyranny-by-clerk will be Remainia.
The people have spoken. And the democratic spirit that inspired just over half the people of Britain to vote for national independence has its roots in the passionate devotion of the Founding Fathers of the United States to democracy. Our former colony showed us the way. Today, then, an even more heartfelt than usual “God bless America!”
All who have studied the Madison papers will grasp the greatness of the Founding Fathers’ vision. They were determined that no law and no tax should be inflicted upon any citizen except by the will of elected representatives of the people in Congress assembled.
They regarded this democratic principle as of such central importance that they wrote it down as Article 1, Section 1 of the Constitution of the United States: “All legislative power herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.” Period. No ifs. No buts. No exceptions.
Except one. The Constitution establishes that foreign treaties ratified by a two-thirds majority of the Senate shall have the same force of law throughout the United States as enactments of Congress.
It is, therefore possible for any U.S. Government that can muster that Senate majority to ratify any treaty and thereby to thwart the central principle of Congressional democracy: that no Congress may bind its successors.
The Republicans, who are not always as lively in their understanding of the threat to democracy posed by supranational and global institutions such as the EU, the UN and its bloated climate bureaucracy, are too often snared or charmed by determined “Democrats” who fully understand and thirst to exercise the power to inflict perma-Socialism on their nation by bilateral, multilateral or global treaties.
It is astonishing how many of the GOP are willing to be cajoled and schmoozed into supporting monstrosities such as the Transatlatic Trade and Investment Partnership, which on its face sounds like a free-marketeer’s dream but is in its small print a series of outright Socialist measures which, once the Senate has ratified them, cannot be repealed. Its climate provisions, for instance, are highly dangerous.
It is no accident, therefore, that the bankers, the corporate profiteers, the Greens and the National Socialist Workers’ Party of Scotland – the corporatists and the communists together – made common totalitarian cause and heavily promoted the campaign to keep Britain in the EU, that paradise of vested interests and their poisonous lobbyists.
It is likewise no accident that precisely these same national and global vested interests heavily promote the campaign to subject Britain and the world to various unnecessary and damaging measures whose ostensible purpose is to control the climate but whose real ambition is to curb capitalism, fetter freedom, punish prosperity,. limit liberty and deny democracy.
The necessity to protect the flagile flower of democracy from the scythe of Socialism is now surely self-evident. Here are two modest proposals to ensure that the will of the people prevails over the power of the politicians, the Press, and the profiteers.
First, every new treaty, and as many pre-existing treaties as possible, should be made subject to repeal by a national referendum – and not just by a referendum called by the governing party because it thinks it can win it but by the people via the initiative procedure. Britain would have left the EU long before now if we, the people, and not those who govern us, had had the right to put referendum questions on the ballot.
Secondly, the governing bodies of all new supranational or global bodies exercising real sovereign power or spending taxpayers’ money from the states parties to the treaty that establishes them should be elected at frequent intervals by the peoples of those states parties.
Otherwise every international treaty, being a transfer of power from elected to unelected hands, diminishes democracy. Britain’s membership of the European Union effectively took away our democracy altogether, so that three new laws in five (according to the researchers of the House of Commons Library) or five in six (according to the German Government in a submission some years ago to the German Constitutional Court) are inflicted upon us solely because the unelected Kommissars require it.
Till now, our obligation has been to obey, on pain of unlimited fines.
The vote by the people of Britain to break free from this stifling, sclerotic tyranny has sent a shock-wave through every major international governing entity. It was no accident that the the International Monetary Fund, the Organization for Economic Corruption and Devastation, and various world “leaders” including Mr Obama, broke with democratic convention by openly promoting a “Remain” vote in a flagrant attempt to interfere in Britain’s decision.
Mr Obama’s intervention was decisive. The moment he demanded that Britain should remain within the EU, the polls began to swing against it. It was only when, in his maladroit fashion, he had sought to interfere in Britain’s decision that so many undecided voters woke up to the danger that the maneuverings and posturings of the international governing class represent to democracy.
What will Britain’s decision mean for the climate debate? Of course, it will break us free from the EU, whose governing elite had seized upon the climate issue as a purported ex-post-facto justification for the now-hated bloc’s continued existence.
We are left with our own British governing class, which has until now been no less determined than the EU to damage our economic and environmental interests by shutting down vital coal-fired power stations and carpeting our once green and pleasant land with windmills.
Now that the EU and its devoted poodle Mr Cameron have been consigned to the trashcan of history, it is near-certain that any new British Cabinet will take a more alert and less acquiescent stance than the present lot on the climate question.
It may even occur to the new Cabinet to check whether the rate of global warming is anything like what the profiteers of doom had predicted; to count the number of downstream businesses – such as cinder-blocks made from fly-ash out of coal-fired power stations – that have been destroyed by the EU’s war on coal; and even to wonder whether the forest of windmills that infest our once beautiful landscape are now extracting between them so much kinetic energy from passing storms that they are slowing them down, causing far more flash flooding than slightly warmer weather would (if and when it happened).
In the past, there was no point in our politicians asking any such questions, for our policies on all matters to do with our own environment were set for us by the unelected Kommissars of Brussels, whether we liked it or not.
Now that our politicians are going to have to learn to think for themselves again, rather than acting as an otiose, automated rubber stamp for directives from Them in Brussels, perhaps the Mother of Parliaments will begin to calculate the enormous economic advantage that Britain will gain by abandoning all of the climate-related directives that have driven our coal corporations, our steelworks and our aluminum works overseas, and have killed tens of thousands by making home heating altogether unaffordable.
We, the people, are the masters now. Our politicians will have to reacquire the habit of listening not to Them but to us. Here, and in the rest of Europe, and eventually throughout the world, let freedom ring!
Thank you, America, and God save the Queen!
Brilliant! Thanks, Lord Monckton!
There is a very simple rule of thumb to be observed in all things political: if 0bama is for it, the correct position is to be against it. If, of course, you value personal freedoms and actual democracy.
I’ve been seeing and reading some horrendous examples of “personal freedoms and democracy” all day. A huge swatch of millennials feel that nobody older than them should be allowed to vote, because they all voted “the wrong way”. The indoctrination of the young has always been a very successful tool for fascists and dictatorships.
Indeed.
There are 16–18 year olds who say that it’s their future and they didn’t get to vote, and the old people who aren’t going to be around that long screwed them over. I’m 30, I don’t think I’m shuffling off this mortal coil any time soon (although who knows what tomorrow will bring). I’m pretty sure it’s my future too. It also happens to be my present, the same as all those older folk who voted the wrong way. The kids haven’t experienced the real world yet, they don’t see how the EU affects those it doesn’t directly benefit.
I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m glad I couldn’t vote at that age. The stuff my head was full of back then makes present-day me cringe.
When I was 16 my R&B band played at a rally for LBJ’s announcement for his War On Poverty.
We see how that’s worked out, eh?
“The stuff my head was full of back then makes present-day me cringe”
Oh, that’s so true.
For anyone wanting to learn more about the arguments for the UK leaving the EU should watch Martin Durkin’s (Producer of The Great Global Warming Swindle) excellent film:
Brexit:The Movie
But it has often been said that if you are not a Liberal by age 21, you have no soul. If you are not a conservative by age 40, you have no sense.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot too. As a 50 year-old who has lived and paid tax in Germany for over 10 years and having worked on the continent for 15, I have a lot of experience of the EU and Europe. I have also paid an awful, awful lot of corporation tax in to both the German and UK exchequer, in fact 5 times more than Facebook did to the UK government in 2014. Furthermore I’m white middle aged and highly skilled and belong to that generation that created that thing call the internet among many, many other things. So my suggestion would be to higher the voting age to something like , say 40 and weight the vote according to how much tax you have paid in to the system. Furthermore anyone voting on such an important issue as membership of the EU , should be forced to do some kind of pre-test , to verify they understand what is at stake. I’m sorry to say my experience of most of the so called educated under 40s who are not white and male is that they are shockingly ignorant.
@Poptech: Thanks for the link to Brexit: the movie. I hadn’t seen that before, glad I didn’t miss it.
The problem with many young people is those that were eligible to vote did not go to the polling booth. Figures I saw were 1 in 4 18-24 years olds voted but 4 in 5 over 60 year olds voted. The young can moan all they like, but if they don’t exercise the privilege to vote they have not right to criticise anyone. ( NB. This is an issue world wide –not just the UK)
Nothing wrong with the young not voting. If they’re not informed, working and raising families, they shouldn’t vote.
Lowering the voting age to 18 was a mistake. It should be raised from 21 to 35, when the brain reaches full maturity. How did the Founding Fathers know that?
Gabro, the founding fathers were keen observers of their fellow men.
And themselves it seems to me . .
Lord Monckton, you really nailed it!
And Codetech, you did too. I’ve been saying for at least the last 6 years that 0bama really is running the most transparent administration in US history. All one must do is reverse everything he says and voila, you have the truth. Perhaps the simplest code ever.
It felt good this morning to learn that the British people had the slight enough majority to slip a monkey wrench into such un-democratic madness as the EU was actually always meant to be.
One can only hope that we can do something to check our own slide into such madness. I suppose we will see something in this regard in November.
I suppose we will see something in this regard in November.
I hope so.
But, yea or nay, we get to decide.
God Bless America! says this atheist. (It’s a tough job, but somebody has to do it.) I particularly note, with great positive feeling, that melord credits the example of America — stand beside her and guide her with a light through the night from above.
Welcome back to the outdoors Lord M of B. We learned a lot from our Mother, and we (we as in I am) happy to have you back on the playing field of free peoples and ideas.
G
I think you are saying that Obama is now “Yoko Ono” wrong. Not just wrong but exactly wrong, 2+2=-4 type of wrong.
Yes! I’ve always liked the joke that 2 + 2 = 5 for large values of 2. This makes it possible for 2 + 2 = 6 for even larger values of 2. And 2 + 2 = -4 if you remember the correct signs and parenthesis. (-2)(+2) = -4. They just don’t have their math structure down very well.
Barry Soetoro may want the UK at the “back of the queue”
however “The Donald” disagrees. Hear him say so at the
opening of his newly renovated Golf & Country Club in
Scotland. Already he has invested almost $200 million
on the place, and yet the SNP “Government” despise him.
short excerpt from Trump’s one hour speech in Scotland.
The presidential Trump on display here. No one who voted leave for one minute believed the crap Obama came out with. This referendum has revealed a lot about who our true allies in this world our. Good luck Mr. Trump in your bid for the presidency and f*** Obama.
QUOTE : America does not need gun control. It needs Muslim control.We
can either ban guns, box cutters, shoes,cars,underwear, pressure cookers,
underground volcanoes,DemocRATS and bodily fluids… or we can put a stop to the
terror tidal flow of Muslim migrants into America.
End of Quote…
Trump for President, Hillary for Prison – 2016
That’s a great rule of thumb, CodeTech. Mine is a variation: “If Obama and Pope Francis are for it, it’s infallibly wrong”.
Absolutely agree. Only I would extend the rule-of-thumb to say: if the democrat party is for “it,” the correct position is to be against “it.” I’m not a republican, but I staunchly an anti-democrat.
Your anti Democrat, not anti democrat. That capital “D” makes a huge difference.
Yet, and perhaps the only thing missing in C.Ms. excellent post is that a constitutional republic is designed to protect individuals against ALL tyranny, including democratic. (Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch, for example)
David A, you are absolutely right. It has always amazed me how many people don’t understand the difference between our republic and a pure democracy. But, I that’s what happens when the people teaching history don’t understand it themselves (I’d rather leave it at that than assume evil intent).
I’ve lost track of the number of people who insist that any form of tyranny can be justified, so long as the majority wants it.
if 0bama is for it, the correct position is to be against it.
I have found this to be the case 99.99999999% of the time. Obamaman is a real top down dictocrat, With his hammer, pen and phone he’s always looking for a way to nail the people and the economy.
Well said Christopher Lord Monckton
However, vitally more important than a “democracy” is upholding a Republic.
See The Founding Fathers Rejected Democracy
All States in the USA mutually required that their constitutions be “republican in form” because all classic democracies had descended into mob rule.
See further on why the Founding Fathers chose a Republic not a Democracy to prevent Mob Rule
Article IV, section 4 of the US Constitution says that the ….. United States ….. shall guarantee to each State, a Republican from of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion …..
But yes our 57 Sovereign Republics do operate along generally democratic lines.
Too bad that ….. The United States …. is delinquent on that invasion prevention.
Note that Article IV , section 4 , is something the government is told they MUST do, not something they are told they MAY do, as in Article I section 8.
The UK will now also be able to put some efforts into their own invasion by peoples who start from the premise of rejecting the established laws of their country, and demands to substitute their own seventh century rules.
G
Don’t mock Obama. He’s the most successful gun salesman this country has ever seen.
“The necessity to protect the flagile flower of democracy”
Lord Monckton, was that meant to be ” fragile” ??
NO !
The frequently flagellated fragile flower of democracy.
Hopefully not Flagyl
You’re welcome!
Little Jimmy Madison
Hip, hip — hooray!!!
We, the People, of the United States of America (if I may be so bold as to speak for us all) … 🙂 … accept your gracious thanks with pleasure! Oh, hooray, hooray, HOORAY for the United Kingdom!
SO HAPPY FOR YOU!
#(:))
**************
And Barack Hussein will now take a bow:
(youtube)
And, now, Barry Soetoro proposes a toast, “To the Queen” —
with “God Save the Queen”
as background music for his little speech:
(youtube)
“Long live the Queen” !!
Barack Hussein Obama was not bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia, but to the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, the highest office in Islam. Overcome with religious fervor, he lost control and bowed deeply. Then he had to bow repeatedly to other foreign, non-Muslim officials in an attempt to cover his gaffe.
After leaving office, President Fillmore visited Europe. He had an offer to meet the pope, but turned it down because he thought protocol required one to kiss the pope’s ring, and believed that such an action would demean the office of President of the United States. He later accepted the meeting when he found out that there was no such “kissing the ring” requirement.
President Fillmore had a lot more respect for the office of president than the current occupant. I think historians are wrong in ranking President Fillmore so low as a president.
I guess that Fillmore gets lumped in with his pre-war successors, the Democrats Pierce and Buchanan, who usually (rightly, IMO) rank at the bottom for hastening and not heading off the Late Unpleasantness.
Many historians conclude that the Compromise of 1850 delayed the LU rather than contributing to it. But if so, the delay came at the cost of adding a new slave state in the territories and of passing the Fugitive Slave Act, which helped give rise to the Republicans and to destroy Fillmore’s Whigs.
Had the North and South gone to war in 1851 instead of 1861, the latter would have had greater relative strength in population and resources then as opposed to ten years later, so its secession might have succeeded. More Southern militias had participated in the Mexican-American War, so that section would have had more military experience. England and France too might have been more inclined to support the South earlier.
Fillmore’s also an article of fun and opprobrium for later running on the anti-immigrant, anti-Catholic American Party (Know Nothings) ticket, although he apparently never joined before being nominated as its candidate for president.
[Egyptian cotton was not yet available to the English mills in 1850 in large amounts either …. .mod]
Mod,
Good point.
So by sacrificing runaway slaves for ten years, Fillmore may have helped keep the Union together.
New Mexico was never going to have a lot of slaves, anyway.
I remember one comparison between Clinton and Reagan when it came to the office of the Presidency.
It was said that Reagan wouldn’t even take off his suit coat while in the Oval office, out of respect for the men who had occupied it before him.
Clinton on the other hand …
What does he do during his briefings? Maybe his trusted advisors need to quit playing video games all day.
Obama doesn’t listen to briefings. He already knows everything.
“Janice Moore
June 24, 2016 at 4:54 pm
Hip, hip — hooray!!!
We, the People, of the United States of America (if I may be so bold as to speak for us all) … “
On this issue Janice, I’m more than happy to allow you to speak for me, too.
Which makes your use of the word “we” totally acceptable.
Thank you, JohnWho, for telling me that. Good to know.
Janice you were speaking for not only the USA but : Canada, Australia New Zealand and the list goes on so thanks for speaking on our behalf! ( you took the words out of many mouths! how is your 4 legged friend?)
Hi, Sybot (a),
Yes, yes, indeed — all liberty-loving (and honoring) peoples are represented by the comments in this thread. Good point!
Thank you for asking, Riley would like you to know that, while he will be 11 in August, he is STILL HERE. “I’m still here,” he said, with a little growl. Heh. The two German Shepherds are fine. Riley is not well, but, he’ll be with me at least another 2 or 3 months (or more!), I think.
Life is hard — but, God is good. All will be well…
I hope all is well up there in this busy growing season time of year.
Take care (sorry so terse, here, but, well, you understand…),
Janice
You’re welcome, from Us the People.
(Hang in there, Janice.)
Thank you, Evan, for your kind encouragement.
Only last April, Emperor Obama the first, decreed that upon exit, the UK could go to the back of the bus; excuse me, I meant to say queue. Now he is saying that nothing will change WRT the US UK relationship.
This is the same Obama, who opened his White House Oval Office residency, by excommunicating the bust of Winston Churchill; a gift to the US, of the British People.
He also added his emphasis to that sentiment, by arranging to have an official photograph of himself sitting in the Oval Office chair, with his boots up on the desk of oaken timbers from a British Revolutionary war battleship; also a gift of the British people.
And of course we all know that presenting the soles of ones boots , is the standard form of Islamic insult to one’s opponents.
Lo and behold within seconds, Lady Hillary issued her opinion of Brexit, in words that almost exactly matched and mimicked The Emperor Obama speech.
Hey Hillary, at this point what the hell does it matter (to you) what the freedom desiring British people want; what difference does it make ??
G
Hillary is trying to keep her name on the front page.
Trump’s great speech and news conference in Scotland this morning sucked all the political air out of Hillary’s world, so she is trying to claw her way back into the public eye by sounding off on Brixet. Naturally, she says just the wrong thing.
Hillary has a lot of titles. But she has no accomplishments to speak of, and has made numerous really bad decisions on her watch that have led to the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people, and the disruption of Europe by Middle Eastern refugees fleeing from the wars Hillary and Obama’s stupidity caused.
You could say that Hillary is partially responsible for Britain exiting the EU: The British are tired of playing cleanup to Hillary’s Middle East mistakes.
Trump is going to tear her record apart during the general election, and there is nothing she can do to stop it, because it is all true, and on the record.
Well said, George! (great memory for all the facts about that poseur in the White House)
“Now he is saying that nothing will change WRT the US UK relationship.”
Perfectly true. Obama hated Britain before the vote, and he still hates Britain after the vote. Nothing changed.
Well Obama had a venomous hatred for the British and Churchill in particular, because of Churchill’s action in quelling the Mau-mau uprisings in British Colonial Africa, where the (Kikuyu ?) tribesmen (some of them) went on a murderous rampage hacking farmers, black and white to death, and burning their farms.
His paternal grandfather was involved in that in some way, according to a report I have heard from a guy who researched it. Don’t recall the name of O’s grandpa, but there is a dingo in there somewhere, if my memory hasn’t gone all sour.
G
Might have got that ancestral name a bit pear shaped.
g
george, Hillary has to bow and scrape and fawn over Obama. He is the one who will have the final say whether she is indicted and tried as a criminal.
LL, do you not think those two are engaged in “MAD” due to their extensive corruption. If the FBI finds the brass to indict, how long before there is a pardon, or does one have to be convicted to pardon?
I don’t know about elsewhere in the UK, but where I am the back of the bus is the place the kids make a bee line for anyway.
george e. smith June 24, 2016 at 6:13 pm
This is the same Obama, who opened his White House Oval Office residency, by excommunicating the bust of Winston Churchill; a gift to the US, of the British People.
Sorry George, but this didn’t happen, it’s outside the door of the president’s office, the Treaty Room.!
Sorry, Phil. Wrong again!
Don’t you ever get tired of making a fool of yourself regurgitating lies by the Administration and its MSM lackeys?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9436526/White-House-admits-it-did-return-Winston-Churchill-bust-to-Britain.html
Needed UK media to set straight the lies of Obama’s American cheer leaders and echo chamber sycophants.
Gabro June 26, 2016 at 7:14 pm
Sorry, Phil. Wrong again!
Don’t you ever get tired of making a fool of yourself regurgitating lies by the Administration and its MSM lackeys?
Apparently you don’t understand english and didn’t read the article you linked to!
The post by George that I responded to said:
This is the same Obama, who opened his White House Oval Office residency, by excommunicating the bust of Winston Churchill; a gift to the US, of the British People.
The bust of Churchill which was a gift to the US in 1965 is still in the White House exactly where I said it is, outside the Treaty Room.
There was another bust of Churchill which was loaned to President Bush (do you understand the distinction between loan and gift Gabro?) by Tony Blair. As the ambassador, Sir Peter Westmacott, said, it was a loan for the duration of the Bush presidency and was returned to the Embassy at the end of that presidency.
Phil,
The depths of your superficiality cannot be plumbed.
The post-9/11 loan was indefinite. Had Obama wanted to keep it for the rest of his term, the UK embassy would have been happy to let him.
http://www.allenbwest.com/michele/is-this-the-real-reason-obama-returned-that-churchill-bust
Dig deep or taste not of the Internet.
There is one more bust of Churchill that remains in the White House – this one is displayed outside The Treaty Room, but there’s little chance Obama will be hanging out there, considering he has little interest in actually discussing treaties with Congress.
Gabro, you really should start reading someone who actually knows what he’s talking about. President Obama uses the Treaty room as his primary working office.
http://www.whitehousemuseum.org/floor2/treaty-room/treaty-room-2009-sw.jpg
Do you mean this desk George?
http://anthony-clark.com/lastcampaign/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/20100125-bushovaloffice-300×198.jpg
http://anthony-clark.com/lastcampaign/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FordFeet-300×201.jpg
http://anthony-clark.com/lastcampaign/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/bushfeet1-300×193.jpg
Looks like a presidential tradition?
Now, this is ridiculous. The president can show respect and politeness. Gestures and wishes are one thing. It is the meaningful actions that concern me.
On this subject, you can speak for me too. Monckton hits it out of the park 🙂
What a pity Christopher Mockton is not in the running for Prime Minister, as Cameron just resigned. Is he inelgible, given his place in the House of Lords? I don’t know enough British law to know.
While a peer, he is not in the House of Lords.
Tom, the Prime Minister is a position decided by the group who control the majority in Parliament. In this case the Conservative Party. It’s more of a process than a matter of law
The qualification for the post at this time is to belong to the party, make the short list selected by the elected MP’s of that Party and then be able to gain the majority of votes at the party’s annual conference this autumn.
They should obviously choose someone who supported the leave vote.
SteveT
THANK YOU, Christopher Monckton of Brenchley.
Its a wonderful day for democracy and freedom Lord Monckton!
..Outstanding sir !
p.s. congratulations on a well deserved victory !
Wow! Well explained!
A friend of mine asked what possible benefit could come from a vote for Brexit. I replied democracy, to which he said that it was over-rated. I knew at that point that I had to be more careful in future who I called a friend.
With Scotlands attitude to all this I would suggest a close eye is kept on William Wallace’s grave for any signs of rotation. “Freedom!”
Remains to be seen.
+1305
+1314 (exactly) [ well, except for the calendar change ]
Very astute reply.
Love Scotland and it’s people, but sometimes I think all the industrious ones either emigrated or got shot up in the wars cause the people there now sure like “free stuff” paid for by others.
The Scots have turned to socialism in a big way. They may leave GB and join the EU whose days are surely numbered.
Ric,
But Scotland is an economic basket case and thus would not qualify for EU membership. They could leave the union jack only to wander in the hinterlands without a sugar daddy to maintain their welfare state.
What ever would they do then?
I wonder if the Scots leave how much blue paint there is left? (Looks like that is what their government is going to wear )
If they let in Greece, they’ll let in any socialist spongers. At least Scotland still has a few years of oil left. Not olive oil, but petroleum.
Ric Haldane
June 24, 2016 at 7:49 pm
The Scots have turned to socialism in a big way. They may leave GB and join the EU whose days are surely numbered.
**************************************************************************************************************
Good luck to Scotland joining the EU. I’m sure that Spain and one or two others among the EU members will use their veto to stop them joining to discourage independence from the likes of Catalonia and regions elsewhere with similar ideas.
SteveT
@Owen: I predict that the next referendum proposal will be for England, Wales, and Northern Ireland to secede from Britain together. That way the Scots don’t have to apply to join the EU — they will have never left, and as a bonus, the Scots won’t get to vote on the question. Instead, the rest of the kingdom will be the ones to vote on it.
If this is their intention it explains why PM Cameron did not send the EU an Article 50 Notice before resigning. The clock on negotiating the separation doesn’t even start to run until that notice is given.
Of course, Cameron may just intend to cheat the voters by never giving the notice. So Vote UKIP in the upcoming general election!
They’e all over here.
Scotland wouldn’t even exist except for the untimely death of King Edward I. Had he lived, his son, Queen Edward II, wouldn’t have lost the Battle of Bannockburn. Without that lucky win, Robert the Bruce wouldn’t have been King of Scots and Scotland today would be even less separate from England than is Wales.
“his son, Queen Edward II”
Is that a type-o? Or did Edward II self-identify as a queen?
I guess he used the Ladies Loo under the new principle of all 57 genders are equal.
g
Well Edward II may well have had a homosexual relationship with Piers Gaveston, Marlowe’s play makes very explicit reference to this.
Well said Lord Monckton –and will be posted in my Facebook account!
Bravo Christopher Monckton!
Indeed, God save the Queen and God give us all strength to build upon the freedom our forefathers won for us through their sacrifice.
I’m sure Packagerm will never happen though.
God save the Queen, indeed.
Yes, indeed!
I immediately realized that at the time he did that back in April. Many other did as well. That man’s ego cannot listen to his better advisors to keep his socialist, nanny-stater yap shut. He cannot accept that it was his words that helped convince the good people of Britain that their future should be in their own hands, not in an unaccountable socialist bureaucracy.
Advisors? He has advisors?
There is but one.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-white-house-aid-valerie-jarrett-obama/
In effect, the first female president.
Unless you count the second Mrs. Wilson, Edith Bolling Galt, who was the only person who could understand Woodrow after his stroke. Or claimed she could. So effectively ran the executive branch.
She was a “Red Bolling”, ie descended from Matoaka “Pocahontas” Powhatan. Most Bollings are “White”, but there are also a few “Blue Bollings”.
LOL!
Gore, Hansen, Mann, Jaczko, DiCaprio, …
Oh I don’t know about Obama being decisive (if so it would be the first truly decisive thing in his term), I think that Junker’s comment about the British government being delusional to think there would be any further negotiations on the EUs structure was the death peg.
Agree. Doing it on the day before the vote seemed calculated. Britain was pretty much against him taking that position, I think he wanted an exit, and this was his way of helping that to happen.
He seems like a thoroughly unlikable and vindictive person.
Not sure how many people actually caught that, with how close to the vote he said it. Between that and the EU position that Cameron’s reform agreement wasn’t binding, one would hope more people would have swung to the Leave camp.
typo ‘flagile’
Notso !
G
Congratulations to the UK.
I’ve been reading and watching some of the news reports and reading some of the blogs from the more ‘liberal’ side of the fence and, well, it’s interesting. Without fail, they all blame the poor, benighted, uneducated working class people for the failure of the Remain vote. They all feel it is the fault of nefarious, bigoted, unprincipled politicians leading the masses astray. Their condescending rhetoric is blind and sickening IMO.
While the UK and many of the rest of us celebrate this victory for freedom and democracy, we must remain cautious and on guard. The socialists have just suffered a major defeat and will not easily come to terms with this reality. They will oppose, perhaps violently, any opposition to their way of thinking. They will justify their opposition, perhaps violent, by some form of ‘The ends justify the means.’ They are currently in denial and I doubt they will ever reach acceptance. The road forward will be rocky and full of pitfalls, it always is and always will be. But, the issues that brought the UK to vote exit are still out there. There is still a powerful block of people that will do whatever it takes to see their dreams of power and domination come true. Unless they are defeated swiftly, relatively speaking, and in a decisive manner, then there will be more ‘battles’ and each will be more vicious than the last. Let’s do what we can to ensure these ‘battles’ remain in the realms of rhetoric and the ballot box.
That’s because the little people are too stupid to do the right thing…So we get nudged.
Actually, we also get lied to big time because we’re stupid.
Just ask anybody in Obama’s administration.
EPA, IRS, VA, Energy, Education, Justice, ask anybody.
I agree with your assessment 100 percent. They’re already looking for ways to overturn the vote. These people have the tenacity of a Terminator robot. I hope enough people in the UK realize that.
And thank YOU, Christopher, for Shakespeare, Isaac Newton, the Beatles, and other good things from Britain.
I’m glad to see you mention TTIP, the evil cousin of TTP. Obama and his mostly Republican allies* are looking to shove democracy-killing TTP down our throats during the lame duck session. Perhaps you could arrange for Cameron to visit the US during the lame duck. We can at least hope for similar results.
* most TPA votes were by Republicans. TPA greased the skids for TPP.
I actually did wrote my Congresswoman (AZ-CD2, McSally) last year warning her of the dangers for her support and that of Republican Party in siding with Obama to give him TPA. They voted for it anyway. It still eludes her thimble brain that she won the closest Congressional district election contest EVER (by just 160 votes) because enough people wanted to see Obama opposed at his every step. She went to DC and snuggled up and canoodled with the GOP establishment.
Then Trump came along and showed the GOP establishment fools how disconnected they are from their base.
write. duh
You can join the Anti-TPP Git Sally Posse, preferably making wrangler and/or voteslinger pledges. Even if you’re a Republican, who can’t bring yourself to vote against somebody from the R tribe, you can still take and keep wrangler pledges. http://www.votersrevenge.org/follow/119/0 . The public is woefully ignorant of TPP – I’ve done my own (admittedly modest and statistically insignificant) polling. (See my facebook page “TPP Ignorance”, where I’ve documented some of this ignorance. http://tinyurl.com/j8rkuud Although I haven’t posted any recent ‘polling’ of mine, the results have been very similar).
Please do your own polling of neighbors. When you find out just how few of them know anything significant about TPP, you will hopefully be galvanized to change that. Obama actually classified the TPP docs (though Congress critter could read it, under draconian conditions) until after the TPA vote. The mainstream media blacked out the TPP, until TPA was in play, the only exception being Ed Schulz of MSNBC. (Who is no longer there. Hmmm. He is on RT.com).
PERHAPS CHRISTOPHER MONCKTON WILL USE HIS FATHOMLESS WIT TO HELP SET THE REPUBLICANS STRAIGHT ON TPP. CHRISTOPHER?
What, no fish and chips?
No bangers with fried tomato? No Cornish pastie? Or haggis?
No rotten NHS teeth?
Gots to be wrapped in yesterday’s newspaper to qualify as fish and chips.
g
George,
So what do we do when the papers all go online? I loved me some fish and chips when I lived in England. Of course the EU was trying to run the chippies out of business with their fish limits on cod when I was there. Chicken Tikka Missala actually passed fish and chips as the most popular dish in England while I was there.
That’s right!
Let us never forget that we have the Mother Country to thank for Chicken Tikka Missala.
And Shakespeare, of course, dead white male chauvinist that he may be. But not a racist. Remember the Merchant of Venice, Othello the Moor and of course the Dark Lady of the sonnets, Lucy Negro or Emilia Lanier.
George,
Can no longer wrap fish and chips in newspaper, since newsprint consists of that evil poison, carbon!
@ george e. smith,8:04 pm, gots to be wrapped in yesterday’s newspaper to qualify as fish and chips. Does the Guardian qualify or is it banned?
In the interest of brevity, there were many, many omissions. Chief among them, methinks, is tea and strumpets, with the Queen!
“….tea and strumpets…”
So that’s why Brexit won.
What once was, is no more…
“In a recent World Health Organisation report of the dental status of children, British youths had fewer decayed, missing or filled teeth than those in France, Spain and Sweden. The United States, on the other hand, did quite a bit worse. At the age of 12, children in the United Kingdom have on average better teeth than their American counterparts.”
“Now that the EU and its devoted poodle Mr Cameron have been consigned to the
trashcandustbin of history”As Donna Laframboise would have it.
I like “ash heap of history” personally.
One has to wonder how much of this vote was purely due to the backlash against the EU climate change policies. Given time, liberalism is perfectly capable of destroying itself. Here in the states, we’re just a wisker away from having a republican president, congress and (importantly) supreme court. All this in the face of strong demographic head winds. Just let liberals be liberals and that will be the end of liberalism…
Excellent — and entertaining at the same time!
To which I can only say Hear, hear.
Deserves at least thirteen smily faces : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – ) : – )
Tea… milord?
+1776
In th UK it’s +2016
Oops, I forgot.
Welcome back to the free world.
Next step: the United Kingdom of England and Wales…
Yep, it’s coming. Just us and Wales, and we’re very happy with that (since a female Welsh voice is the sexiest voice in the world!). People are already trying to think up a new flag.
UK will have so much spare money they won’t know what to do with it. Billions from EU, Billion from Barnet formula ~£10000/scot. Let the Venezuelan inspired scot nat party have their country.
Lord Monckton best wishes and thanks for all your efforts
Well all those Welshmen can sing. Them and their damn ” Dear Land of my (our ?) Fathers “.
That’s the only reason they won that game, when Wales beat the undefeated 1905 All blacks. Completely snookered our magic Haka, that was supposed to put the fear of god into them.
Anyway, our little Maori village still has a name that is longer than Llanfair ……………..
I’ll look it up.
G
george e. smith June 25, 2016 at 6:26 am
Well all those Welshmen can sing. Them and their damn ” Dear Land of my (our ?) Fathers “.
It’s ‘Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau’, and it translates as ‘my’. I sang it for the first time about 60 years ago in my school choir at the Eisteddfod.
That’s the only reason they won that game, when Wales beat the undefeated 1905 All blacks. Completely snookered our magic Haka, that was supposed to put the fear of god into them.
It’s always good when the All Blacks come up against the Tongans, get the haka and the sipi tau!
My dear Christopher, my thanks to you and all those who labored so mightily to bring this to pass. Well done, good sir, very well done indeed.
w.
It seems that Lord Monckton has a keener grasp of the U.S. Constitution than ‘Constitutional Law Professor’ Obama.
Go Brits!
Except with respect to one issue; he has the Constitution right (treaties ratified by 2/3 vote of Senate alone), but trade agreements are not self-implementing, and they must be enacted by both houses of Congress. See http://conginst.org/2011/12/12/trade-or-treaty-why-does-the-house-approve-free-trade-agreements/ for an explanation.
Lord Monckton has a keener grasp of EVERYTHING than Obama.
TRUMP the establishment. TRUMP the Grumpy Old Party. TRUMP you Obama.
Obama is truly a tone and tint deaf moron. God Bless US Bitter Clingers.
I think you saying “Thank You” for putting up with 7.5 years of socialist crap just so we could send its leader over in time to maladroitly throw your election for independence by several percentage points.
You are quite welcome. Hope you can return the favor somehow…
Peter
Ditto.
I think the fact that the remain”s” tried to extend the registration for young voters by 48 hours also proved their undoing. A lot of young people saw the desperate illegal move for what it was , manipulation. The elite seems to think that we the unwashed are uninformed but social media proved to be their undoing.
I was very surprised at how much the electorate was gerrymandered. Not just British people were permitted to vote, but any-one resident in the U.K. Yes, that included such people as foreign embassy and consular people. I would imagine that all E.U. member states diplomatic members would have voted to stay, as would most if not all of the E.U. workers present in the U.K. Also the diplomatic staff of the U.S.A., who would vote against the desires of their prescient, oops, president. As we are told that there are as many as 1,000,000 Poles alone working in Britain then this would have biased the voting totals towards a remain result. That it did not shows that many real Britons still respect themselves.
The true result, if only Britons had been permitted to vote, would have shown a far greater majority for Leave.
Richard,
They seem to have tightened up the eligibility rules for the referendum. A US citizen, I was shocked, when living in the UK in the 1970s, that I was allowed to vote.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/649517/EU-referendum-2016-Voting-Voters-Allowed-British-Irish-Commonwealth-Citizens-European
Scotland allows 16 and 17 year-olds to vote in Scottish elections, but they were barred for the referendum.
Ah yes, the European Union. I’m still waiting for that marvelous bureaucracy to pass a regulation for the changing of a light bulb. One person would be standing on a chair holding the bulb while four others would be standing on the floor turning the chair.
“…… the Organization for Economic Corruption and Devastation” ROTFLMAO.
As simple as Mr Monckton would like you to believe it, this vote was not just about democracy it was based on immigration and xenophobia. Voting stats show that the vast majority of higher educated people voted to remain in Europe, whilst the lesser educated and grumpy retired people who still believe there is a British Empire voted to leave. Many have forgotten why Europe was formed in the first place. It was created after WW2 to stop conflict between european countries which had gone on for centuries and it succeeded in bringing 70 years of peace which in European history is unprecedented. Wars continue to this day in other parts of the world because of disputed borders and different cultural and religious beliefs. Europe had this too until the European community came together and started sharing trade, culture and allowing freedom of movement.
Far from being a great loss of democracy, Europe strengthen the UK both economically and culturally. I actually believe that the world will only ever be at peace when borders come down and cultures interwine, otherwise it will always be them versus us mentalty which leads to conflict.
Is 70 years of peace and the prospect of my children having the opportunity to live and work where ever they please within 28 different countries and cultures worth giving up some but not all rights of governance, I would say absolutely yes.
Oh yes. We must keep those peasants in their place, as they cannot be trusted with anything like democracy./sarc
Can’t have the proles getting uppity and thinking they know better than the ‘educated’, can we? They should know their place.
Besides, most Britons with degrees only got them in the last decade or so with the massive expansion of the university scam, so they’re still young and naive, and probably took something useless like ‘trans-lesbian womyn’s studies’.
I just love the way the left is so loudly proclaiming its hatred of the working class. They won’t forget at the next election.
Tom Halla , pb seems to forget it was the peasants that fought for the so called peace 70 years ago. pb seems to forget that has been very little peace in the EU the past 70 years, ( pb , the Balkans, the communist take over of Hungary, ,Czechoslovakia and so on.) But then pb seems to be living in rose petal land. to me.
I also forgot to add that the peasants that fought ( and won WWI & II ) where led by the elite. While they were sitting in London and leading from behind, the few leaders that really led were the real guys, MacArthur, Patton, Montgomery and so on. ( I have to add that Rommel would have succeeded IF he was not removed)
Dugout Doug MacArthur and miss all the main objectives Monty were hardly lead from the front types.
Lord Lovat (the handsomest man to cut a throat) lead from the front on Sword Beach with piper Bill Millin playing ‘Highland Laddie’.
PB weather
Let the proles eat stale cake?
Or perhaps only the young and those with degrees should be allowed to vote as everyone else seems to come up with the wrong answer?
tonyb
I’m sure the Ottoman Empire was considered “peaceful” . . . by the “Ottomans.” Their slaves had “peace” so long as they worked their butts off for their conquerors or fought in wars for them.
Ludicrous comparison and you know it.
The USA is another example of collective peace achieved with differing cultural and political beliefs. Imagine if California or Florida decided to vote to leave the USA. How would that go down amongst Americans? Not well I suspect.
pb, that’s a whole nother can of worms. States are not countries. To compare Great Britain with California is a “ludicrous comparison”…
This American would be happy to see parts of Florida and California leave the Union. Along with all, most or parts of New England, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, Michigan, Ohio and Illinois. For starters.\
Well the US tended to be somewhat peaceful so long as its governments adhered to our Constitution, and our laws under that Constitution (and Declaration of Independence).
Now we have “immigrants” who come here with the full intent to install their own seventh century system of rules instead of abiding by their sworn statement that they would obey our laws and defend our Constitution against all enemies (including them).
G
” will only ever be at peace when borders come down and cultures interwine, “(sic)
The intertwining of European cultures is one thing but allowing in millions of barbarians and their 6th century religion is suicide.
Long live Britain and their people.
“Long live Britain and their people”
I rest my case.
I’m with you expat.
Long live Britain and their people.
+
Europe might strengthen the UK, but Dar al-Islam will destroy both.
@ Akatsukami
you used the Arabic term ‘Dar al-Islam’. I must ask, why use the Arabic term ‘the house of those who obey God?’
You don’t mean to convey that concept at all.
Yes, they call themselves that, but so what? You wouldn’t call Michael Mann ‘a victim of unjust persecution’ just because he chooses to call himself that, would you?
When you use the Arabic, you are creating a ‘dog whistle’* whereby you are announcing yourself to be an enemy of God. What else should any good religious person do but take up your challenge and oppose you, God’s self-declared enemy? Unless you really think Mohammedans are those who truly obey God, you shouldn’t use the term.
Yes, the Koran calls upon Mohammed’s followers to fight those who don’t share their faith, but the Bible calls on Christ’s followers to take up their swords. Yet both religions have people who are genuinely peaceful. Instead of alienating peaceful individuals with your Arabic dog whistle, why not use plain English? For example, call those you oppose ‘those who do evil in God’s name’.
Of course I infer that you think all followers of Mohammed do evil in God’s name. I think you’re wrong there. but whichever of us is right, at least use English so your meaning is clear to all your listeners, rather than heard one way by one group, and a different way.
Many others who stand against terrorist atrocities have also spoken as you do, declaring “We will never follow the right path, We will never obey God, We will never let this country be God’s country, The struggle for righteousness will never triumph'”
If you mean to say that, then fine, but if that’s not what you mean, don’t use Arabic words with those exact meanings.
[And we will cut off further religious discussions at this point. Move it to a different forum if either of you wishes to continue writing. .mod]
It’s better translated as “House of Submission”, to one concept of God, yes, but also to the dictates of a particular religion and code.
“I actually believe that the world will only ever be at peace when borders come down and cultures intertwine,”
Radical Muslims don’t “intertwine”. Their objective is for them to set the rules and for you to follow their rules. Otherwise, it will go very badly for you. Your deluded view of the world might be the death of you, if you think you can “intertwine” with just anyone.
“Is 70 years of peace”
Nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with hundreds of thousands of nuclear-armed US troops, plus an existential threat from the Soviet Union.
That is also the reason for the economic successes of western europe. They never had to spend much of their GDP on defense, so they spent it on buying votes.
It was my impression “Europe was formed” by plate techtonics millions of years ago. Perhaps you meant the E.U.? It started out well enough as free trade agreements, but morphed into a dictatorial kleptocracy. One does not need that to have peace.
Then again, need I point out how many E.U. country’s citizens have fought and died in wars in the last half century? Perhaps you only meant that the right wars had been prevented, not counting those against brown people or in muslim lands? A very selective vision you have.
Per lesser educated:
So when those most comforted by privilege, position, and power are winning, those oppressed by the stupidity and greed of power ought to just shut up and take it? Those most propagandized by the socialist indoctrination of university can do no wrong as they make the approved choices, and those who actually need to make the economy work, and know how, are to be silenced? Your classism is showing along with bigotry.
FYI I hold a couple of degrees and rank in the Mensa range. I hope to eventually know as much as my Father, some day. He never finished high school. ( A small World War got in the way). He later built up three different businesses and ended life owning a half dozen or so rental properties. But you think him too stupid to know the world and how it works? Were it not for millions like him, you would not exist. You are incredibly nieve, no matter your education.
Well said.
Thanks E.M. Smith, could not have said it better.!
Wow.
Once you remove the enormous chip off your shoulder you might want to digest that most people over 50 like me have parents who are not degree educated because that form of education was not freely available back then and yes my father fought in WW2 as well.
All I stated above is that the majority of higher/degree educated voted to remain in the EU and the majority of those with high school or below education voted to leave. This is fact. You can look at the stats yourself. Does this mean all the degreed people are wrong and all high school educated or below people are right? If so on what basis?
I would like to put forward this analogy. If you ever found yourself in a court case which may determine the future of your life. Would you rather have a person who is highly educated in matters of law and has judged many cases before on that knowledge or someone uneducated in law who is just as likely to judge you by your skin colour, mannerisms or cultural differences because they have little else to go on? “He looked guilty so jail for him”
I believe that the decision to vote leave the EU was mostly emotional and I know people with degrees that did just this without any other explanation. This is madness when it will potentially have long lasting affects on our children. It may not, but at least give a rational reasoning for leaving the EU, not just a gut feeling.
pbweather. You have to accept certain facts. Immigration doesn’t tend to affect the ‘well-orf’, or at least, it doesn’t affect them anything like it affects ordinary working people. The ‘well-orf’ tend to have had a better education. So what you’re doing is confusing one fact with another. Do you see? You think that the better educated have a ‘better’ handle on the UK’s problems due to the very fact of their better education. The better-educated may indeed have voted to remain. The young of ordinary (less-educated) people are having to compete with East Europeans in very ordinary jobs. There is a bidding system on housing (I’m going to guess you didn’t even know that). In my town, the High Street is like a foreign place. And (since we are, in fact, all bigoted to some degree) I don’t want to live among people who are nothing like me. Like I said, none of us do, we seek out like-minded people, but we’re too afraid to refer to ourselves as bigoted (I’m not). But the over-riding fact that caused Leave to win was/is immigration. Our population has risen by 500,000 in the past year. For how much longer is that sustainable? A year, two years, five? What’s strange is that the underclass, the poorer, the less-educated, understand this FAR better than the well-orf and the better-educated because they see it every day. When you live in a world of celebrity, fame and fortune, like some of the utterly worthless dribble that spouted ‘Remain’ to any watching TV camera, you cannot hope to understand how Britain is suffering from millions pouring in. You live in a different world, you see? There was no “emotional voting”, it was based on exasperation that those in power cannot see the plight of ordinary people because they move in different worlds.
thank you for that explanation
pbweather: You didn’t read Lord Monckton’s brilliant essay atop this page, did you? Had you done so instead of going off on your socialistic rant, you would see the REAL reasons that most of us Brits voted to leave the EU. My own reasons were: sovereignty, democracy, law-making, immigration and climate rules and regulations (not necessarily in that order).
People who cannot see or understand the reasons why we fought two World Wars to save our country and its sovereignty, only to then later give it away willingly, must be lacking in common sense or plain stupid.
Pb, what a bigoted reply to EM excellent post. You first defend the non educated vs the “educated(institutionalized into socialism) then throw them under the bus,
=================
“” or someone uneducated in law who is just as likely to judge you by your skin colour, mannerisms or cultural differences because they have little else to go on? “He looked guilty so jail for him”
=================
…thus proving EM point of your bigotry.
@bazzer1959
“Immigration doesn’t tend to affect the ‘well-off’, or at least, it doesn’t affect them anything like it affects ordinary working people. ”
Correct. I posted the following (or something very close to it) at correntewire.com, but the newish moderator, who is quite a nasty piece of work, deemed fit to censor it, en toto, due to the breitbart reference. Or so he says. (I have appealed to the blog’s owner for ‘uncensoring’)
”
Britain’s surge of EU “free flow of labor” have hurt their working poor. Anectdotal evidence: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/18/guardian-editor-im-voting-leave/
Statistical evidence: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/migobs/Briefing%20-%20Labour%20Market%20Effects%20of%20Immigration_0.pdf
“UK research suggests that immigration has a small impact on average wages of existing workers but more significant effects along the wage distribution: low-wage workers lose while medium and high-paid workers gain.”
Demographic studies of voters showed a “loose” correlation of voting, with area categorization by median income. Areas with poorer Brits tended to vote to Leave.
Meanwhile, I personally have more sympathy for poor people voting their pocketbooks, as compared to wealthier citizens. They are “closer to the edge”, likely have to deal with more crime; in the UK, the increasing likelihood of their well-regarded, but socialist health care system, getting cut and/or privatized due partly to the strain of supporting additional immigrants, has played a part in the debate. (Also, rents in some areas are sky-high). Downward pressure on wages, threats to healthcare they likely won’t be able to afford if they lose it, and higher rents – I don’t find it hard to empathize with a Brit living at the bottom of the economic ladder.
Similarly, in Germany, poorer workers are bearing the brunt of the Syrian immigrant surge. In many of the German states, the minimum wage was abolished, in order to absorb the Syrian immigrants into the work force: http://www.voltairenet.org/article189129.html.
“
PB should remember Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson’s remark about the manning of the Royal Navy, where the uneducated made up the crew (up in the f’oc’sle), and the officers (back on the quarterdeck) were usually the better-educated and elite of British society: “Aft the more honor — forward the better man.”
Then you would be fully familiar with the colloquial Mexican meaning of the word ” mensa ”
G
pbweather: “Wow.
Once you remove the enormous chip off your shoulder…”
Wow yourself.
Were you looking in the mirror when you typed that ridiculous, unnecessary rant?
You’ve some damn gall accusing others of having chips on their shoulders, sunshine.
Well I wasn’t there when the first one happened, but I remember (from afar) the second one, and as near as I can recall, the Uropeons did both of those all by themselves, without any help from the UK.
So it is they who need to learn how to live with each other.
G
UK was heavily involved in the lead up WW2 and many previous wars so to say it was the Europeans and not UK is simply not true.
Let’s put it another way , if your up to your neck in shit and it’s still coming do you want some toff in a suit to do the shovelling or someone who has done a hard days work !?!?
To pbweather
June 25, 2016 at 12:24 am
Regarding WW2, the British were trying their damnedest to prevent a war, although the then current P.M. failed to realise that a lunatic cannot appeased in any way. He finally said “Enough” and gave a guarantee to the next probable victim which still did not stop the lunatic.
In the first WW, Britain again only entered because they had guaranteed the rights of a small country and were willing to fight to protect those rights.
“UK was heavily involved in the lead up WW2 and many previous wars…”
Ah, I get it.
You’re one of those.
‘Nuff said!
higher educated = wealthier, lesser educated and retired = poorer. The bigotry is painfully obvious.
There may have been peace between countries, but the *class* “war” clearly continues unabated. It really is not at all clear that the existence of the EEC then the EU had anything to do with the lack of war in Europe. England had a civil war despite being a single polity. The War between the States, arguably a continuation of the English civil war, was not prevented by the American Federation. Yugoslavia was a federation, yet fell apart in war. None of those wars were over disputed borders.
As for cultures intertwining, it is extremely easy to be on good terms with people you never see. It’s the people next door with their barking dog (that would be me) and their all night parties (that would be them) who get on each other’s nerves. In the ecological world, “intertwining” is called McDonaldisation, and is thought of as a Bad Thing.
Good fences make good neighbors, so says the old chestnut.
Wow! I wouldn’t normally be this snarky, but your “version” of History is all screwed up!
EUROPE is a continent. The UN (United Nations) came into being after WWII, and has a whole galaxy of countries outside Europe as members…
The European Common Market came into being in 1973, so 43 years ago.
The European UNION was formally established when the Maastricht Treaty came into force on 1 November 1993.
So, the EU has only existed for 23 years.
So, that has nothing to do with your so-called “70 years of peace” which DOES NOT consider Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Bosnia, The Ukraine, or Georgia “wars” apparently…
I guess you CAN say Germany and France haven’t fought each other in 70 years, but that’s just about it.
It is your history screwed up. First discussions on the EEC started in 1950 followed by the treaty of Paris 1951 then formalised in the treaty of Rome 1958.
The Balkan wars involved countries not in the EU at the time and involved artificial Soviet enforced borders forcefully keeping multiple culturally different peoples together.
The difference with European multiculturism is that it is optional to live in foreign lands not forced. The Balkan countries post war all want to join the EU and are enjoying a relatively normalised period of peace even Serbia who are strongly aligned with the Russians. Surely they can’t all be wrong about the EU?
As for Ukraine, this was caused by Putin wanting to stop European expansion. EU has brought peace within the EU. What happens outside is out of the EU control and irrelevant to my original points.
bwahaha
EU is a religion of peace.
all EU akbar!
And you would no doubt have had your 70 years of peace if Britain had not won the Battle of Britain, possibly a lot more. ‘Peace at any price’ ?
The cogent bit is
Here’s a prescient link from a decade ago from my http://www.cosy.com/Liberty.htm page :
Yes, of course. But so many have been educated beyond their intelligence.
Besides, so much of university coursework is the 21st century equivalent of basket-weaving, including at least one that I taught.
pbweather. You sir are a fool.
Thank you for your reasoned debate. Yet another who voted on emotions it seems.
“Reason”
You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
I reasonably decided you are a fool.
Troll might be a better word.
“pbweather. You sir are a fool.”
I think you’re being a bit hard on fools there, actually.
@pdweather: “Voting stats show that the vast majority of higher educated people voted to remain in Europe”.
Statistics will show anything you wish them to show, and by “higher educated”, I believe you mean, “more thoroughly indoctrinated.”
“… the world will only be at peace when the borders come down and cultures intertwine…”
That’s what brought us mass shootings in Fort Hood, Paris, Santa Barbara, and Orlando; to name a few examples of the idiocy of forcing primitive cultures to “intertwine” with civilization.
It was the thorough defeat and destruction of the Nazi, and facist states, by Great Britain and the US, followed by the Marshall Plan that brought 70 years of peace to Europe. It was the prosperity established by the Marshall Plan; along with Britan and America shouldering most of the cost of the Cold War, which enabled Europe to initiate EU experiment.
I think you will find that Europe has been around for hundreds of years. You have no idea of the history of the Common Market and its undemocratic transformation into the EEC and then the EU.
eu is responsible for peace?
wtf?
i thought it was family food fights until WW1 knocked them in the dirt.
royal blood – racism at its finest.
then there was the aftermath – still playing out.
nobel peace prizes to anybody who can deliver the usa on a platter! any more takers?
Pb weather
Deluded! Looking to Brussels to lead you! Like the Nile crocodile you don’t know you are being saved. You will think very differently when you realize that the designer brains you had implanted in you by the new world order “core subjects” (or whatever they call them) programmed you to not think at all. You are young and you think like a retired person from an earlier generation. Get some pi55 and vinegar in you and feel the exhilaration of adventure. The fear instilled in you will wear off. Oh and Europe’s continental wars are over. It’s a silly notion and rather naive. Cheer up.
There aren’t any voting stats of course only surveys since the ballot paper did not record age or education (60+, Engineering 2:1 from Trinity, Cambridge in my case). My neighbour left school a little earlier than me but we were both proud to stand with the 17,410,742 who saw off yet another European anti-democratic dictatorship (including James Dyson, Anthony Bamford (JCB), the Queen probably and even God possibly based on the weather). Jeremy Clarkson and David Beckham were Remaniacs of couse so make of that what you will.
For what they are worth here are some referendum day vote survey stats from a sample of 12,369 (voting leave by age, 18-24 27%, 25-34 38%, 35-44 48%, 45-54 56%, 55-64 57%, 65+ 60%). 43% of people with a university degree voted leave which is hardly a tiny minority. With age comes wisdom so I would have hoped you would have spotted that there are more than 28 countries in the world and that it is NATO that has kept the at times fragile peace with the EU being responsible for much of the mayhem and unemployment that is damaging Europe. Good luck to your children getting a job in Greece. My passport issued in December 1961 recorded unaccompanied journeys through Europe in the early 60s (Universal Aunts to get me across London to the boat train) long before UK joined EEC.
This article by Charles Moore (also a Trinity Man although only 59) deals with the issue very well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/the-european-elite-forgot-that-democracy-is-the-one-thing-britai/
A bit more analysis of the voting survey. About 30% of 18-24 year olds voted, about 50% of 25-34 year olds voted, about 95% of 55-64 year olds voted. Over 4 million 18-24 year olds did not vote. About 400,000 55-64 year olds who did not vote. The 18-24 year olds could have changed the vote to Remain if they had bothered to vote (even allowing for some being inelligible)! They’ll be in serious need of a safe space when they work that out.
You [snip] You have exposed your complete lack of understanding and membership of this planet. Working in any of the 190 countries of this planet requires only the fare and a work permit.
Freedom and democracy are far more important than any other concept you could muster in that tiny constricted little thing you call a brain. Yes immigration is a problem especially when it is enforced by law not of your country, and especially when your country is an island, and especially when you cannot deport murderers and rapists back to their own country because a foreign court, not made up of judges, tells you so.
How the hell can any country be stronger in a dictatorship? Look at the USSR. All the satellite countries, and that’s what the UK was to EU, are now wealthier, more democratic and peaceful.
70 yrs of peace is not the result of something that has existed in its current form for just 30yrs. It is the result of NATO and British armed forces and the past willingness of the USA to intervene when asked.
1.000.000 polish in the UK doesn’t strengthen the British culture it destroys it you halfwit. Immigrants change their host culture into their own. Look at the Muslims blocking roads in the UK to pray.
People like you should have the vote remove as in Europe but fortunately we don’t mind you voting because there are not too many idiots like you in this world although enough to give us fright.
“1.000.000 polish in the UK doesn’t strengthen the British culture it destroys it you halfwit. Immigrants change their host culture into their own. Look at the Muslims blocking roads in the UK to pray.”
Makes me want to tell the story of my son’s wife’s inlaw and his brother: Their parents came from Poland, the father died while the kids were young, their mother without education struggeled in two lowly paid jobs in London East End. The kids did well in school, they had very little money, but both were able to get into university, courtesy of the Royal Air Force, and are now serving there as a civil engineer and as a medical doctor.
This story makes my greatly admire the people involved, and even much more the UK.
But I dont admire you Stephen Richards!
I keep seeing these comparisons between the EU and the soviet block and it’s laughable and insensitive.
If live in the EU is so much of a dictatorship, why has the EU not built walls to stop the people escaping? When has the EU sent it’s troops in to quell rebellions? If the UK government does finally decide to invoke article 50 do you think there will EU tanks rolling in to Downing Street, or will there be a negotiated exit?
“Educated People” as a demographic, have some of the most unwise persons.
Un-educated means never having attended university, therefore un-indoctrinated.
The school-of-hard-knocks, working life, WILL instill wisdom in a person
Who do you want to follow, The Educated or The Wise.
Europe was formed after World War II. LOL!!!
@pbweather,
Yes, the over 65’s strongly voted for Leave. That’s almost certainly because older people have more wisdom and world-experience, and they have had more opportunities to see the EU for what it is: a job destroying, incompetent and anti-democratic entity that is almost certainly doomed to well-deserved extinction.
I’m sure all the Establishment “experts” are well educated, whether they are economists or climate scientists – but that doesn’t stop their predictions from turning out to be hopelessly wrong, time after time. I’m quite well educated (I have a physics degree and hold several US patents) and yet I have always opposed the EU. You would think that scientists, of all people, would base their conclusions on the cold analysis of data and evidence. But, sadly, they all too easily give in to vested interests and group think.
And how do you explain James Dyson, who came out strongly in support of Leave? I don’t think I’d describe him as lesser educated and grumpy.
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You seem to think, almost touchingly, that the EU gave us decades of peace. Complete and utter nonsense. It was NATO and democracy that gave us peace and security. The EU did nothing to stop the wars in the former Yugoslavia, it was NATO and the US that finally made a difference. Europe is slowly tearing itself apart, largely because of the destructive failure of the euro and the EU elites’ willingness to destroy Greece in order to save the euro.
I put my faith in democracy, the very thing that the EU seeks to destroy. Off-hand, I can’t think of a single real shooting war between two genuine democracies.
If you think the EU has saved us from war, please tell me which two member countries would have gone to war had it not been for the EU. Probably all civil wars are basically a fight for freedom.
One thing that has caused wars throughout history is the loss of freedom and democratic accountability, the very things brought about by the EU.
If you think that binding countries together somehow guarantees peace, how do you explain Yugoslavia? And I seem to recall that both the US and the UK had devastating civil wars.
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In the second world war, our soldiers didn’t fight for the establishment of a supra-national body that would somehow bind the countries together and therefore enforce peace. No, they fought for freedom and the right of self-determination. My uncle served on HMS Hood and also on the Arctic convoys. But in his later years he was bitterly opposed to the EU, because it was taking away the very freedom he fought for. My mother once told me that he said that he didn’t know what he had fought for.
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Now that Britain has voted for freedom, I am sure that our country has a bright future, despite the pitfalls on the way. I have always looked outwards to the world and not inwards to Europe. All those claims from the Establishment about every possible doom that would visit these shores is pure propaganda designed to make the British do what they wanted. They called it a leap in the dark, and then, all of a sudden, the Treasury was able to calculate the results of Brexit to the nearest decimal point all the way out to 2030. These morons would make excellent climate scientists!
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One remarkable result: on Friday the FTSE100 fall of a cliff, as to be expected. But it recovered so the day’s fall was – drum roll please – around 3%
Amazingly, it actually ended the week 2% up!
And, yet, I can sympathise with people who believed in the EU dream, however mis-guided, however disconnected they were from brutal reality. It must be almost unthinkably terrible to see your dreams of decades shattered in a few hours. One of the most memorable sights of the TV coverage was Keith Vaz with tears in his eyes. I do actually feel sorry for him.
But there is another side to this particular coin. For most of my adult life I have been forced to watch our country steadily giving away its freedoms without a shot being fired. I have suffered a lot of anger and depression year after year because of this. And now that nightmare is over.
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We should give credit to David Cameron for giving us the opportunity to finally vote on this. But, by using all the resources of the government to scare us with all kinds of doom, he blew it. If he had given us the referendum and then simply sat back to let the people decide, then he could stay as PM until the next election, as he had planned. But the result meant that the great majority didn’t believe him and so his position was untenable.
I would like to say a huge, huge thank you to Christopher Monckton. It looks like we have won one battle (the EU) but the other battle (climate change) is far from won. But in a sense the enemy is the same: the Establishment. I fervently hope that the new government will do something completely amazing: base their climate change and energy policies on the actual science and on common sense.
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Christopher was, I believe, Margaret Thatcher’s science advisor. Perhaps the same post might be available to him under Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who has expressed some sceptical sentiments. What a dream team that would be!
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Trump has welcomed Britain’s choice of freedom. I hope that in January we have Johnson and Trump in No.10 and the White House. Who knows, the British PM and the most powerful man in the world might both be climate sceptics. That would be a huge step towards victory in the climate war.
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We live in interesting – and hopeful – times!
Chris
What an arrogant thing to say from an obviously poor loser. The borders are still there – the violence is still there otherwise why are all these people dying at our (Europes) borders and fighting to cross them. The EEc put up the biggest barriers to trade ever when it formed and when the UK joined it had to desert the associations struck with the commonwealth over a century or more – talk about pulling upthe drawbridge – at long last we are lowering it again to the free trade we had before the EEC. Talking about peace do you think our intervention in the Ukraine will be seen as peaecable or the attacks on Libya and Syria or the war in Yugoslavia. Nato of course and our post war relationship with the US had nothing to do with it. Without that the EEC would never have had a chance in the first place
pbweather
Voting stats show that the vast majority of higher educated people voted to remain in Europe, whilst the lesser educated and grumpy retired people who still believe there is a British Empire voted to leave.
****************************************************************************************************************
Voting stats show no such thing. Voting stats show that a million and a bit more folks voted for leaving than voted for remaining.
While there may be an element of truth behind the reasons for some people voting out, the only confirmation to support this is what some say when asked why they voted the way they did (actual voting is anonymous). Is it possible that some educated people would not want people to think they were racist/bigoted so would not admit to voting leave?
Could it be that the “lesser educated” are generally not so well off and suffer more from the effects of large numbers of migrants descending on sometimes very specific local areas/regions where they can often tip stretched public services over the edge (I’m thinking health/social services/education) which can easily be made more difficult with unplanned numbers.
As for 70 years of peace – really? Other posters have mentioned Hungary/Czechoslovakia/Greece/Bosnia/ Serbia etc. Could it be NATO that has really stopped major wars from occurring?. Once everything is peaceful, following others interventions, the UN can always be counted on to move in and take credit giving out provisions etc.
The only rights of governance left are the ones you want to make which agree with the elites program – for now. There are whole areas in Brussels with well paid, privileged bureaucrats deciding how you live – which light bulbs are allowed; how powerful your vacuum cleaner is and how long you have to wait for your kettle to boil (2 out of 3 so far). Don’t tell me this is to combat waste. Each month, they move the whole shebang to Strasbourg and back in order to pacify French pride at being involved.
They can’t find an audit firm to sign off their accounting figures (since the early nineties, I think) because so much money is missing each year.
And you think it is the uneducated who can’t see all this. Perhaps the better educated are only so in your imagination.
Good riddance to the EU, oh and by the way, we will try to jam the door open on the way out!
SteveT
“this vote was not just about democracy it was based on immigration and xenophobia.”
Ah, you’re a Remainiac, clearly!
And what is more, you don’t know what you’re talking about, 70 years of peace has nothing whatsoever to do with the European Union which only came into existence after the Maastricht Treaty, it is a result of around 160,000 US/UK AKA NATO troops stationed in Europe to stop the French and Germans ripping each others’ livers out every few decades.
And you might ask yourself, what did the EU do when the nastiness struck up in the Balkans – once again sorted out by the US and UK.
Funny how you lot inexplicably seem to have forgotten Srebrenica, for example, isn’t it?
As for your children, I have children and grandchildren too, and I am absolutely certain they will be able to travel and work freely in Europe, just as I was before the advent of the EU.
We appreciate your gratitude, Lord Monckton, but didn’t the US get most of its (classical) liberal ideals from our mother country? You should be thanking your ancestors, as well.
Good luck with the Brexit. Nearly half of those who bothered to vote favored EU membership, and I bet they won’t take this lying down. You folks have a lot of work ahead of you.
So do we.
And Leavers wouldn’t have taken it lying down if 52% had voted to remain – as Nigel Farage made clear.
Heh, another poor loser!
Excellent. I wonder if the good Lord might consider drafting a brief statement that encapsulates these principles for posterity.
It might be titled “A Declaration of Independence” and start with the words…
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another…”
It might continue:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
+1776
Mike Smith said:
“I wonder if the good Lord might consider drafting a brief statement that encapsulates these principles for posterity.”
No need, Mike. It has already been done. Lord Monckton of Brenchley’s ancestors did it in 1215.
Magna Carta; the fundamental underpinning of British freedom and democracy.
http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/magna2.html
And don’t forget the founding father’s were British intellectuals!
Paul Revere did not say “The British are coming!” He said the “Redcoats are coming”.
They were all British.
or it might be elegant in its simplicity:
FoF
I would add my praises to Lord Mockton if he had chosen the word Liberty instead of Democracy in this article. Our founding fathers were skeptical of any form of tyranny, including Democracy, so choose to form a democratic republic instead. The word Democracy was carefully excluded from both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution for the very good reason that the framers of both intended that the federal government be based on rule of law, not on the will of the majority.
“Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”
Madison – The Federalist Papers #10
IIRC Plato also rated democracy among the bad forms of government. How it came to be pushed as good so much eludes me. It is not stable, rarely lasting longer than 50 years, has lousy minority rights, and ends in tyranny. “Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what is for lunch” sums up the problem.
What works best is a democratic Republic, which is what most of us have. A republic of laws, with feedback from the people via election of representatives. Not a democracy in the original sense.
Read Popper on “The Open Society and its Enemies”. Plato got a whole volume of that to himself. Plato was an oligarch and photo-totalitarian. It is to Plato that we owe the concept of the Noble Lie. If Plato was against something, that speaks well of it.
“It is to Plato that we owe the concept of the Noble Lie.”
Plato’s Foundation Myth was presented as a “magnificent myth” not a “noble lie”. We owe the idiots, and in this case that would include Popper, who have bought into the conventional but mistranslated phrase “noble lie” (ironic, no?). Every nation has their mythology including America. Popper’s insistence that mythology is necessarily religious makes me suspect he never read comic books. America’s battlefront today is a battle between mythologies.
Conservative mythologists will do what they can to preserve and keep in the public mind and spirit the first principles handed down by the Founder’s, many of whom have served as iconic mythological figures.
Progressive mythologists will do what they can to denigrate the old mythology and replace it with a new ideal for the public’s mind and spirit.
Plato’s Republic has its flaws, and the Foundation myth is worthy of criticism, but Plato wasn’t selling calculated lies, he was selling justice and protection of that justice by instilling in a guardian class a “magnificent myth” that will inspire them to not only watch over the other classes, but to watch the watchmen. Whether this is an effective strategy or not is up for debate, Plato’s praise of calculated lies, however, is unfair criticism.
Aristotle said there are three good forms of government, and three bad forms. The three good forms are monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy. The three bad forms are tyranny, oligarchy, and mob rule Sometimes it’s difficult to tell the difference.
A democratic Republic is a democracy.
To Aristotle, Democracy was selection by lot and selection by election was a form of Aristocracy.
Not to mention that democracy would’ve implied votes for women, blacks and unpropertied white people. Hard to make out the truth from up on the high horse?
Nirvana fallacy, much?
Denigrating a good thing because it wasn’t done perfectly (in the eyes of the denigrater).
Sounds like that bingo call “Number 9 the party line”
Try
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/fuding-brexit/
Happy congratulations to our British friends. Maybe this event will serve as a wake up call for us to take a close look at the UN, an unconstrained bureaucracy that is getting bigger and more intrusive.
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/EE5A/production/_90081016_0afd9a63-812b-4314-98bb-beadbe55ab2c.jpg
I voted for her at our last election BUT only because she was the only option to stop the EUSS being formed. Le Pen and her family have other rather less than savoury ideas that will prevent her from becoming president although she will almost certainly win through to the deuxieme tour at next years election. 2017 is going to be another exciting year with elections in spain, Germany and france.
However, it is clearly an objective of the commissariat to forbid all future state elections. We will be allow our imaginary democracy every 6 years voting for our regional councils but they already have no power.
Those in the UK who are now fretting over their vote to leave, Don’t. Your decision is the correct one. It is possible that you will haved forced the EU to change a little but you have certainly raised the heads of everyone in france to see what has been happening out of their sight.
Many french did not know or understand the EU and its objectives. It has always been kept fromp us unless you could speak English. Now they know and they voted against many aspects of the EU before so this should make them more determined to see the end of this disgusting socialist annexation.
One battle down… so many more to go.
Among the people who can be thanked for helping push this through are two stalwart Brits certainly familiar to CMonckton – climate skeptics/bloggers Roger Tattersall, https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2016/06/23/this-is-the-big-one-brexit-for-britain/ and Piers Corbyn, http://www.weatheraction.com/.
It’s high time we Americans took our country back from the globalists – they do not own us.
Let’s start by terminating AGW forever.
Well done Christopher!
“And now I shall die in one. In the words of William Pitt the Younger after the defeat of Napoleon, “England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example.”
Be not in a hurry to go Lord Monckton! There is yet much for you to do, and a long while performing that duty.
“Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
“Britons never will be slaves.”
God Save the Queen!
Good form, Monckton, good form!
My cousin’s Bulgarian wife put it very well, saying countries in the EU are like competent adults still living with their parents. She also pointed out the enormous corrupt diversion of EU funds in her own (now EU) country.
Three Cheers for the UK!….Striking the first international blow to the one world order of the EU’s Orwellian dream.
Perhaps Western Civilization is finally fighting back.
I’ve been watching coverage of the vote to leave the EU all day on tv and I can’t tell you how many times I have laughed with pleasure today. 🙂
I was amused today by American reporters labeling Brexit as trade protectionism, and nothing more. Clueless runs deep in some circles.
Deep? In TV news it’s bottomless!
It’s intentional disinformation, and it’s not cluelessness, it’s a calculated damage-control measure.
http://lesmoutonsenrages.fr/2014/09/11/rappel-walter-hallstein-un-nazi-1er-president-de-la-commission-europeenne/
The NARRATIVE has shifted. Now all the pundits are saying Britain is suffering a massive “I’ll never do THAT again” hangover or “buyers remorse”. I’m picking up a great deal of psychological denial from mainstream media. The globalists have no clue about the resentment of the public to the “status quo”
“It is, therefore possible for any U.S. Government that can muster that Senate majority to ratify any treaty and thereby to thwart the central principle of Congressional democracy: that no Congress may bind its successors.”
This argument is based upon a misconception of U.S. federal law. While international treaties do become a part of U.S. law, but an international accord that is inconsistent with the Constitution for the United States is null and void just as it would be for an other federal law. Further, because the treaty has become a part of U.S. federal law, that makes the treaty subject to repeal, or modification, just as it is for any other legislative act.
I should add to my comment above that the constitutional restraints placed upon international treaties is a not a product of “democracy” and would not be voided or repealed because of “democracy” but because of the republic. Democracy’s can just as easily vote themselves horrific impositions and denials and disparagement of their own rights, but America has a republic in place to prevent that. Even the popular mandate, technically speaking, could not impose policies inconsistent with the federal constitution.
“Even the popular mandate, technically speaking, could not impose policies inconsistent with the federal constitution.”
Sure it can, if it is popular enough . . since the Constitution can be amended. That is glossed over these days, by our (to my mind predominantly) anti-populist propaganda media, which promotes “doing something” about various supposed crisis by executive fiat, but it remains a perfectly legitimate democratic option.
John Knight,
The amendment process has not been “glassed over”, you are pretending that passing an amendment is as simple as apple pie. Where is the amendment to “overturn Citizens United”? The reason it is difficult to pass an amendment is to restrain the popular will.
I’m not pretending anything, sir, it’s been done many times.
“I’m not pretending anything, sir, it’s been done many times.”
Oh, you are most assuredly pretending. You’re the one who argued that an amendment could be passed allowing international treatise not consistent with the constitution to override constitutional constraints. Pure pretense. That amendment will never see the light of day.
Thank you. I’ve called Monkton out on this misunderstanding before, but he refuses to understand.
Perhaps it is you that misunderstands. The word “democracy” is often used in a looser sense, meaning as opposed to authoritarian and totalitarian regimes. Not all democratic forms of government are created equal and can change over time if care is not given, towards more authoritarianism and less democracy. Some would argue that has happened in the US. The EPA and the TSA are examples of that.
Excuse me? What does that have to do with the way treaties work according to the US Constitution?
You are welcome to apologize for your ignorance any time now.
Also Monckton states that the senate ratifies treaties, that’s not true, the senate advises and consents to the President’s ratification of the treaty.
…and that ”consent”, via 2/3 majority vote of the Senators on the Resolution of Ratification, is the manner in which the Senate ratifies the treaty.
Steve Fraser June 25, 2016 at 6:07 am wrote: “…and that ”consent”, via 2/3 majority vote of the Senators on the Resolution of Ratification, is the manner in which the Senate ratifies the treaty.”
Yes, the treaty is already ratified when the president signs it.
“The Senate does not ratify treaties—the Senate approves or rejects a resolution of ratification. If the resolution passes, then ratification takes place when the instruments of ratification are formally exchanged between the United States and the foreign power(s).”
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Treaties.htm
“There are five stages in arriving at a treaty. In the first stage, the president prepares instructions about the terms of the treaty. The president assigns a representative to negotiate the agreement with counterparts from the other nation or nations and president then signs the draft of the treaty. In the second stage, the president submits the treaty to the Senate for its consideration. The Senate can consent to the treaty; reject it, block it by tabling it; or consent with reservations. If the Senate consents, the president proceeds to the third stage, known as ratification. In the fourth stage, the president exchanges ratifications with the co-signing country. The U.S. Department of State and American diplomats abroad typically handle this step. In the fifth and final stage, the president proclaims the treaty the law of the land.”
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3401804271.html
Jean Paul Zodeaux June 24, 2016 at 7:57 pm
“While international treaties do become a part of U.S. law, but an international accord that is inconsistent with the Constitution for the United States is null and void just as it would be for an other federal law.”
It certainly reads that any “constitution” that a treaty overrules is a State’s Constitution, not the US Constitution.
It appears to me that you seem to think you have somehow rebutted my argument. To clarify, you have not.
I think one or both of us misunderstood the other.
What is in my “blockquote” is a quote from the US Constitution itself.
I put it up in support of what you said.
As I read that quote, a treaty may overrule the constitution or laws of an individual State, a treaty does NOT overrule the US Constitution itself.
True, the amendment process can add amendments or change amendments or The US Constitution itself.
But a treaty can’t.
A Supreme Court that can’t read or ignores what it written might rule otherwise. But that’s where the 2nd Amendment comes in…in light of this from The Declaration of Independence.
The founding fathers of the US came up with the US Constitution with the Bill of Rights in an attempt to for a “Government” to achieve those ends.
I had attempted to write a longer more nuanced comment that allowed for either or but my internet was wonky that day and it took me forever to type just one word, so I went with that clarification. The problem that you’ve highlighted, however, goes right to the issue of pot legalization in Colorado and Washington states. This last April the International Narcotics Board of the United Nations weighed in urging the federal government to challenge these state initiatives because they violate international treaties.
As you’ve since spoke to the iffy situation regarding the courts, it has long been my opinion that the SCOTUS fallaciously found the drug prohibitions that led to the most ill advised “war on drugs” – a war on the people – to be constitutional. Because of this, foreign agents such as the U.N. have a legal claim. It would be more than tragic if the federal government honored those treaties and attempt to reign in Colorado’s and Washington’s rebellion.
To make matters worse, not just because of treaties to foreign agents have a valid argument but also because it was the U.S. that led the charge for global drug wars. Of course, Holland led the rebellion charge, and the U.N. has cried foul with that state, and have been able to effectively target the pot growers in an effort to suppress Amsterdam’s casual regard for pot prohibition. The Netherlands have been navigating this mess since 1976, turning a blind eye to pot use while dealing with the International Narcotics Board.
Some treaties are just made to be broken. If it takes states lacking the same primacy as the federalist form to lead that charge, as more follow, and more will, whatever valid arguments of treaties violations will go up in smoke. It is, in my opinion, not a direct step from remedy denied in the name of deference to the legislature to armed insurrection. There are several more steps that can and should be taken, as has Colorado and Washington on this single issue. Their shots across the bow were heard by the entire world.
As usual the Common Market started with good intentions, then the left parasites slid in and perverted it, so that is became a dictatorship and enormous flows of money, unaccountably spent or delivered.
Don’t be fooled. The good intentions were a smoke screen just like they were for the UN. Socialism is insidious and patient.
Please try to limit the number of U.S. companies moved to London for tax reasons. A form of “stay campaign” has been run in the White House to alternately condemn and ignore such moves out of the country. The UK could become a powerhouse if it copied some of the tax policy of Ireland.That involves a rational look at the budget and the special interests though.
From The Guardian: “EU parliament leader: we want Britain out as soon as possible”
I think that’s a great idea. The sooner the better.
Thanks Lord Monckton…
…yes, they could cause a mutiny amongst all the other prisoners in that abhorrent ship of state..
That’s exactly why the Brits need to take their time and court others in Europe who are likewise dissatisfied. A reformed EU is a much stronger bulwark against Russia. Those idiots are still playing the 19th Century “Great Game”.
” Here, and in the rest of Europe, and eventually throughout the world, let freedom ring!”
I expect you will be equally enthused for freedom in case Scotland votes to leave the “united” kingdom .
My point is that in any body made up of nations, individual nations partially yield sovereignty and freedom in the sense you wave it.
The statement that the EU is not structured democratically . is correct, but the dissolution back to medieval kingdoms is the same as “cutting off ones nose to spite ones face”. ( in Greek we say : “head hurts, cut off head”). One should fight for a democratic federation, similar to the US you so admire.
IMO the US is no longer a federation, and needs to be broken up.
I believe it is possible for England and Wales to exit without invoking Article 50. That could be accomplished by England and Wales exiting the United Kingdom.
Scotland and England would amend the Act of Union so that England and Wales leave the Union, thereby leaving the rump–Scotland and Northern Ireland remaining in the EU as the UK.
This would preserve the status of Scotland and Northern Ireland as well as UK overseas territories (such as Gibraltar) vis-a-vis the EU.
It would also open the door for a new citizenship to be created for England and Wales, leaving UK nationals the rights they now have within the EU. People domiciled in England and Wales would have dual UK nationality and English citizenship. The rights of dual nationals would be subject of negotiation with the EU.
Some of the offshore islands, such as the Jersey Islands, are not part of the UK and would presumably maintain their status quo.
I do not have any doubt that England and Wales can prosper as well as several other European states, such as Netherlands, Denmark and Switzerland. Population and area are no measures of quality.
I don’t think the Queen would want to give up England and Wales.
Anna, what “dissolution back to medieval kingdoms” are you talking about, and if so you are alone.
Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, the latest scenario is that, given how prolonged and tortuous the ‘divorce’ will be, and how difficult Brussels will make it for the UK, it is anticipated that at some time during this process the UK electorate will be asked the question: do you really want to go through with this?
I’m actually surprised the Kommissars of Brussels haven’t convinced Obama that NATO forces should be used to bomb Great Britain into submission. (Tell me the head Kommissar isn’t some descendant of King George). /sarc
Thank you for your eloquent words, Lord Monckton. This was the second Battle of Britain. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed to so many by so many.
Well said indeed. I applaud you, Lord Monckton and I applaud Britain.
“First, every new treaty, and as many pre-existing treaties as possible, should be made subject to repeal by a national referendum – and not just by a referendum called by the governing party because it thinks it can win it but by the people via the initiative procedure. ”
This is a brilliant plan.
Treaties dictating our domestic energy production, educational standards, mining of coastal waters and even small arms treaties have been signed. This is done with more and more impunity. For example signing a treaty to reduce our coal use (caling for a great transformation) right in Beijing is totally outrageous. Every one is on drugs, plainly.
We should through initiative and referendum be able to repeal it.
Nevertheless, many unscrupulous politicians and judges still use unratfied treaties as a basis for decisions calling it Common International Law. And it is hard to raise awareness about what unratfied treaties contain.
But the us making a secret deal (TTIP) with this same European commission that Britain is leaving is the real folly of the whole situation.
My step-father in the UK, a staunch conservative, is extremely disappointed by the vote, voted remain, now he won’t talk about it.
“Conservative” in the UK is a lot different from conservative in North America. I often converse with friends in the UK and they are “conservative”, but once in a while they spew something out that is right out of Marx… and don’t get me started on the Aussies and Kiwis…
Wonderful people all, don’t get me wrong! But some of what they “know for a fact” is so far off the mark I sometimes wonder who to congratulate for the brainwashing.
It’s not known as the EUSSR for no good reason. And yet our dumbed-down left-wing education system means that the vast majority of 18-24 year-olds voted to remain in its clutches.
“remain in its clutches”, excellent wording.
73% of about 1.7 million voted to remain but 4 million 18-24 year olds did not vote but they’ll still “thcream and thcream ’till they’re thick”.
Thank you Lord Monckton for your kind comments about my country. Hopefully, by November we will be able to celebrate the renewed independence of both of our countries. I was born, not in a democracy, but a republic. I wish we had kept the republic, but now we have …. Obama. It is some consultation to know that our president may have inadvertently proved himself useful by inspiring more “Leave” votes.
We, the people, are the masters now. Our politicians will have to reacquire the habit of listening not to Them but to us. Here, and in the rest of Europe, and eventually throughout the world, let freedom ring!
Wasn’t that what Wat Tyler said, before he was executed and his people rebellion dissolved into nothing.
A tactical victory, but the war continues.
An independent Britain cannot be allowed to succeed.
Its all very 1940. Britain against the world, as usual.
No, Britain leading Europe, as usual. We’re the first out, to lead by example. Denmark will surely follow, as will Sweden. Then…watch. The EU will fall because of one very simple reason…it is undemocratic. All undemocratic systems fall, some taking longer than others.
And it redistributes wealth through its undemocratic system. Once the realm of money becomes corrupted, the system won’t remain.
Reminds me of Dunkirk, a tactical retreat.
We can always go back on rationing down here, too many obese anyway.
A win,win situation.
Much is being made of the fact that the young voted to remain, implying that if taken later, the vote would be to stay. It was ever thus: people wise up as they age. Repeat in 40 years and you’d get the same result.
Exactly. And every generation thinks they alone have all of the knowledge that their predecessors don’t. It was that way when I was 20, it was that way for the boomers in the 60s.
But… I was wrong. They were wrong. Millennials are (mostly) wrong. Funny how that works.
All of the world’s knowledge is on the internet, but they spend their time twittering and sending cat pictures back and forth.
Knowledge, yes. Wisdom, no. I’m sure many parents wish that their teenage sons and daughters would just listen to their advice, informed from 30-40 years of experience, instead of learning “the hard way”. It would save them so much frustration and heartbreak. A few will, but most will defiantly bang their heads on the same old rocks their parents did, just positive that -they- will be the exceptions to the rule. And all a mother or father can do about it is think, “Hope they come to their senses sooner than I did.”
Lived experience isn’t something you can Google.
Ron: Other than the results from a doubtful survey of voter intentions – which would probably make Lew’s paper look academic – there is no way anyone can tell the voting patterns of the millions who voted. OK, I accept that it is possible to assume that those old enough to have made the mistake in ’75 of voting for the EEC would want to correct that now (as I did), and have children who voted Remain (as mine did!) but voting patterns are otherwise not discernible. EXCEPT: It would be fascinating to see the pattern of the postal votes of some inner London constituencies, especially those where cultural conventions often mean that one ‘community leader’ can tell his (usually a man) ‘community’ how to vote.
Over 4 million 18-24 year olds and over 4 million 25-34 year olds did not vote. They know who to blame!
Over 72% is high turnout, but millions of older people also didn’t vote.
Had 18-34 year-olds voted at the same rate as the general population but at the Remain proportion of those who did participate, it still would not have made up the ~1.3 million vote difference.
There are a lot of very bitter “Remaindears”. And quite nasty with it. I spent a few happy hours winding some of them up on Facebook. According to them we Brexiteers are “the great unwashed and uneducated”!
‘Remaindears’ is very good, I also liked ‘Remnants’ we need a list of the best insults.
I favour “Remainiacs” – especially for the frothier ones.
I don’t see why they should be bitter – they’re free to leave, aren’t they?
Actually, as a point of US law, where absolute rights have been vested, there is no congressional authority to revoke them. To do so would be a bill of attainder. This is true in property transfers, or in vesting the protection of the constitution over a territory, state, or possession. That vesting of property takes all interest out of the Federal government’s hands, and the same is true of state governments. As rights are an individual form of property (as property is the right to dominion and control over the thing, not the thing itself) one can easily be said to have a right to the rights themselves, thereby the rights being an intimate and inalienable form of property. As the Federal government is forbidden bills of attainder, bills of pains and penalties, and ex post facto laws, such was to be utterly outside of the powers of civil government. By banning targeted law, against individuals or classes (by inclusion or exclusion) it was hoped to bind the interests of the new government, and the people together, for they were to both labour under the same yoke, all articles affecting the people to affect the congress, their protectors, their friends, and the whole of society equally. It failed due to slavery.
This is the only real means for one congress to bind its successors, and then only on articles at interest that are within the powers of Congress to vest, or recognize the protected property interest within, such as civil rights under the civil rights act of 1871, pursuant to the powers involved in the 14th amendment. Fletcher v. Peck 10 U.S. 87 (1810)
Further, no US treaty can override the constitution in any fashion, the constitution requires treaties made in pursuance of the powers granted to the federal government, and can go no further. (Reid v. Covert). A treaty being a form of law, congress is equally bound to adhere to the forms and protections of the constitution, no matter their natural predilection of mischief, and attempts to bypass that constitution are a form of treason, as the constitution is both the foundation (constituting the powers of treaty themselves), and the limits of that government.
“It would be manifestly contrary to the objectives of those who created the Constitution, as well as those who were responsible for the Bill of Rights — let alone alien to our entire constitutional history and tradition — to construe Article VI as permitting the United States to exercise power under an international agreement without observing constitutional prohibitions. [Footnote 32] In effect, such construction would permit amendment of that document in a manner not sanctioned by Article V. The prohibitions of the Constitution were designed to apply to all branches of the National Government, and they cannot be nullified by the Executive or by the Executive and the Senate combined.
There is nothing new or unique about what we say here. This Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty. [Footnote 33] For example, in Geofroy v. Riggs, 133 U. S. 258, 133 U. S. 267, it declared:
“The treaty power, as expressed in the Constitution, is in terms unlimited except by those restraints which are found in that instrument against the action of the government or of its departments, and those arising from the nature of the government itself and of that of the States. It would not be contended that it extends so far as to authorize what the Constitution forbids, or a change in the character of the
Page 354 U. S. 18
government, or in that of one of the States, or a cession of any portion of the territory of the latter, without its consent.””
The sovereignty of the United States is a bit different from that of the Queen, or of parliament. It is a set of powers delegated under a charter, constituting a new government, dissolving the then-extant states and reestablishing them under a new constitution. It was done by, as the writing goes, ‘we the people’, as the states had no authority to give up, or give away any of their delegated power.
Perhaps the best definition is under Yick Wo v. Hopkins, a case on the limits of arbitrary power.
“When we consider the nature and the theory of our institutions of government, the principles upon which they are supposed
Page 118 U. S. 370
to rest, and review the history of their development, we are constrained to conclude that they do not mean to leave room for the play and action of purely personal and arbitrary power. Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to law, for it is the author and source of law; but, in our system, while sovereign powers are delegated to the agencies of government, sovereignty itself remains with the people, by whom and for whom all government exists and acts. And the law is the definition and limitation of power. It is, indeed, quite true that there must always be lodged somewhere, and in some person or body, the authority of final decision, and in many cases of mere administration, the responsibility is purely political, no appeal lying except to the ultimate tribunal of the public judgment, exercised either in the pressure of opinion or by means of the suffrage. But the fundamental rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, considered as individual possessions, are secured by those maxims of constitutional law which are the monuments showing the victorious progress of the race in securing to men the blessings of civilization under the reign of just and equal laws, so that, in the famous language of the Massachusetts Bill of Rights, the government of the commonwealth “may be a government of laws, and not of men.” For the very idea that one man may be compelled to hold his life, or the means of living, or any material right essential to the enjoyment of life at the mere will of another seems to be intolerable in any country where freedom prevails, as being the essence of slavery itself.”
The problem, by and large, comes in as lack of adherence to principle. We are not allowed to, collectively, do those things which are criminal individually. It is an extension of the old maxim that criminality does not reduce the more that are involved, similar as no conspiracy is reduced in its import by the number of members. As co-holders of that sovereignty, we have no authority to attempt to diminish that of others, save in self-defense against actual aggression, and then only until that aggression ends, and restitution is made.
Attempts at redelegating that delegated authority is an act of aggression. It cannot be achieved without first going back to the original delegating authority, dissolution of that delegation, then reinstitution under a new charter via amendment or full reconstitution.
But yet… our congress too oft ignores its own limits, as does our executive, and our courts.
My apologies for the long-windedness, but I prefer to be accurate and precise.
As for TL:DR, Congress can’t actually modify their authority with treaties, nor may they seize vested properties without falling afoul of their limits. They cannot engage to declare something of no value, and seize it, but must pay full market value, and there is no proper valuation for things of infinite value, such as rights and civil immunities.
Outstanding post!
Thanks for putting it all in a form of legalese, that we peons can actually understand. I can read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as ordinary English language; but never got the gist of things such as “bills of attainder”, so I just considered it funny language instead of some deliberate meaning.
So tell me, why do people mention the 10th amendment all the time, but never say anything about the ninth amendment.
As near as I can tell, the ninth amendments simply says that ANY AND ALL rights that are not specifically mentioned in the Constitution, are retained by the people. So that would include the right to privacy as being an absolute right of the people, since the Constitution does not specifically limit such a right, so privacy would be just another of those unalienable rights asserted in the Declaration of Independence.
Yet Judge Robert Bork asserted that there was no (constitutional) right to privacy, when talking about the Roe v Wade decision which the SCOTUS made on the issue of a right to privacy.
Seems to me that SCOTUS erred in accepting that the procedure under discussion in Roe v Wade could be considered private in any way, with all of the persons having knowledge or participation in that event. Only thing lacking is publishment in the newspaper society social pages.
I would have put the Bill of Rights Article Nine first on the list, rather than ninth.
G BTW IANAL, so I know nowt about it.
Bills of attainder (From the latin, attinctus, blackened, or stained) are any bill that deprives a right to a class or individual group. The british Writ of attainder after criminal conviction, upon sentence of death, was the means by which a felon’s rights were removed, his very humanity was forfeit, and he could be executed as a monster. The Corruption of Blood extended this civil death for three generations without the execution. Lesser bills of deprivation attacking a known, easily defined class or persons, was known as bill of pains and penalties and is likewise prohibited. The penalty may be inflicted absolutely, or conditionally, may be accompanied by expurgatory oaths, actions, or affirmations, ‘proving’ to the legislature that you are ‘innocent’ of the taint or danger that they believed existed, such as fees of licensure, or tests oaths for religious reasons.
It was to bind, as was said in the Federalist 57, the Congress to the exact same law as the people.
“I will add, as a fifth circumstance in the situation of the House of representatives, restraining them from oppressive measures, that they can make no law which will not have its full operation on themselves and their friends, as well as on the great mass of the society. This has always been deemed one of the strongest bonds by which human policy can connect the rulers and the people together. It creates between them that communion of interests and sympathy of sentiments, of which few governments have furnished examples; but without which every government degenerates into tyranny.”
Effectively in such cases, the Legislature takes on the mantle of the judiciary, without authority, declares a danger or perceived danger, defines a class, and targets that class. The federalist 44 also talks about that danger.
The federalist 84 speaks of the fact that the bill of rights may distract from other rights contained in the constitution, and give excuses to those future legislators, to take up powers that would allow them to do such things, as they’d be not so vigorously excepted if they were not within the powers to otherwise do them.
“We do not hold today that Congress cannot weed dangerous persons out of the labor movement, any more than the Court held in Lovett that subversives must be permitted to hold sensitive government positions. Rather, we make again the point made in Lovett: that Congress must accomplish such results by rules of general applicability. It cannot specify the people upon whom the sanction it prescribes is to be levied. Under our Constitution, Congress possesses full legislative authority, but the task of adjudication must be left to other tribunals.
Page 381 U. S. 462
This Court is always reluctant to declare that an Act of Congress violates the Constitution, but, in this case, we have no alternative. As Alexander Hamilton observed:
“By a limited constitution, I understand one which contains certain specified exceptions to the legislative authority; such, for instance, as that it shall pass no bills of attainder, no ex post facto laws, and the like. Limitations of this kind can be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of the courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the constitution void. Without this, all the reservations of particular rights or privileges would amount to nothing. [Footnote 40]” — US v Brown
As per the 10th amendment, versus the 9th, it’s because many children today are educated that their rights come from the state, rather than are protected from it.
The article 4 constitutional privileges and immunities encompassed, as a term of art, all the things that were within the bill of rights. Privileges, in that term of art, were rights shared by the class of citizens, but not necessarily by other groups. They were not something to be given or taken away, limited, or worked around by legislative proclamations, they were part of the rights accruing to that title of ‘citizen’. Immunities, on the other hand, were things that belonged to the whole of the people, citizen or not. They were things that were utterly outside of the scope of legislative, executive, or judicial authority.
Not many people know what they were, but there is a great deal more in the judicial history than most would think on the subject. The fear of those of African descent gaining those rights were the reasons for the old Black Codes, and later the Jim Crow laws.
You can find them in Dred Scott v. Sandford on pages 60US 416-417. Too long to put in here. The same were at issue in the much earlier Prudence Crandall case on the education of free-born persons of that descent.
The right of privacy was core to the 3rd, 4th, and 5th amendments. The quartering of troops or agents in a home to listen in, the listening at the windowsill or rifling through the private papers, etc.
As per the Roe v. Wade point, all that would do is distract the issue, but in my opinion, allowing the coercive power of the state to intrude in a person’s life, to force them to bear a child because another believes it is wrong for her to not do so is a far greater wrong. To say society has more right to her body than she does, more right to her future than she does, is to establish powers that can and will be easily abused, and utterly destructive.
We must adhere to principle even in the most painful times, or it is no principle at all.
Thank you, Petition and Remonstrance! This thread NEEDED that comment! Thank you for taking the time and for so generously sharing all that legal research (that was not compiled in a short time!). Well done!
When Obama talks others walk . Free advertising for the “leavers ” . Thanks big O .
Hopefully he will speak in favour of Hillary’s campaign too .
You know… the earth has a fever and a carbon tax will make things all better after Hillary shuts down coal
coal miners and other fossil fuels . Any questions ?
Not only has Obama already spoken in favor of Hillary’s campaign, but he will undoubtedly prevent Ms. Lynch from calling a Grand Jury to address the criminal complaint the FBI will very likely find against Ms. Clinton regarding her mishandling of emails. (Clinton’s unethical behavior regarding the Clinton Initiative is another matter, however.)
But really, can we expect any other behavior from a president who has acted unlawfully (and hence impeachable) in at least 15 specific aspects of his administration?
Thank you, sir, and God bless Christopher Monckton, I pray.
http://www.philippedevilliers.fr/Le-phenomene-Villiers-Valeurs-Actuelles_a190.html
who gave orders to : Schumann – Monnet and Delors ????
I take exception to Monckton’s position on Treaties passed by the Senate. They are not a way to by-pass our Constitution when as the courts have already stated, said treaty(ies) violate that same Constitution!
http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-2/19-constitutional-limitations-on-treaty-power.html
Unless stealth tyrants succeed in ‘stacking’ the court. Then it’s rule by man, not by law.
I feel like the country has shed it’s beer gut! Go Britain!
I voted to leave the EU, as did other member of my family. However. in my area of the UK there is a plethora of Pakistani immigrants who voted remain, because they want unrestricted immigration & HMG handouts. Since the 1970’s Muslims have doubled their numbers every 15 years in the UK. In the 2011 census, there were 2.7 million. In 2016, they number 3.4 million; well on the way to 6.8 million in 2021. This demographic change is due to multi-culturalism. The multi-racial Roman empire expanded by imposing Pax Romana by conquest, but declined & fell when it became multi-cultural.
“When in Rome, do as the Romans do” was good advice, but the empire was overwhelmed by race change. It wasn’t that the native populations (that is, the early Latins, Etruscans, Celts, etc.) who changed their basic temperaments. Something very different happened. These areas of western Europe were deluged by great influxes of peoples from other areas of the Roman Empire, notably from the east. It wasn’t the temperament of the people that changed, it was the race.”
http://www.askelm.com/people/peo011.htm
http://www.askelm.com/people/peo014.htm
In conclusion.
David Cowling, the BBC’s head of political research, in an internal memo…
“It seems to me that the London bubble has to burst if there is to be any prospect of addressing the issues that have brought us to our current situation. There are many millions of people in the UK who do not enthuse about diversity and do not embrace metropolitan values yet do not consider themselves lesser human beings for all that. Until their values and opinions are acknowledged and respected, rather than ignored and despised, our present discord will persist. Because these discontents run very wide and very deep and the metropolitan political class, confronted by them, seems completely bewildered and at a loss about how to respond (“who are these ghastly people and where do they come from?” doesn’t really hack it). The 2016 EU referendum has witnessed the cashing in of some very bitter bankable grudges but I believe that, throughout this 2016 campaign, Europe has been the shadow not the substance.”
Cowling is WRONG! It was never about Europe. It has always been about the un-elected EU Commie tsars.
H/T Quote of the day, Guido Fawkes.24/6/2016 http://order-order.com/
Perry, so you blokes threw the switch just in time. Given a little longer, and the invaders would have reached the tipping point from which no peaceful recovery could be made.
The USA perhaps still has an American majority who can still throw the switch here and stop the fifth column Trojan horse.
Ted Kennedy’s legacy is the destruction of the former sound US immigration law and policy.
G
How does being in the EU effect immigration from Pakistan? Or government handouts?
Perry, thank you for illustrating so clearly the ignorance of the typical Brexiteer. Of all the myriad issues you could raise, you talk about Pakistani and muslim immigrants that have nothing to do with the EU. This illustrates perfectly that it is xenophobia and not real issues that fuel the brexit fire. Thank you.
Land that I love.
“… land that I love…” (Evan Jones)
(youtube — Composer: Irving Berling; vocalist: Celine Dion)
Thank you, France, for that beautiful statue. … Thank you, Great Britain, for our legal heritage. … Thank you, immigrants from all over the WORLD (Germany, Holland, Ireland, Poland, Italy, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines, Brazil, Haiti, India, … and Luxembourg), for your wisdom and can-do spirit and beautiful personalities…
We are so blessed.
***.***.***.***.***.***
And thank you, Anthony Watts, for a place to say it.
***.***.***.***.***.***
Dear Christopher Monckton,
“… my final broadcast…” …
As another commenter wondered above: Are you okay?
Hoping the answer to that question is “yes,”
Janice Moore
Irving Berlin (oh, brother, trying to make it rhyme, I suppose…. :P)
Thanks, Janice.
so do I
I’m so pleased to see that someone else has the same concerns as I. As an example of this effect, look at the downstream side of a wave-powered generator: A darn sight smoother water than the upstream side.
It is always good for the people to win one. I hope the elites don’t figure out a way to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat on this issue. Secession from the EU was a great victory for the people regardless.
It is horrible to witness unelected regulators and bureaucrats make the lives of the people miserable just so they can feel to joy of exercising power. The EU will end just as the USSR ended; but I don’t know if I’ll live to see it. Perhaps.
But I do have to take exception to all the joy over restoring democracy. Democracy has had a bad reputation since the time of the ancient Greeks at least. It is 7 wolves and 3 sheep voting on what to eat for lunch. The USA was originally designed as a republic with a written constitution to restrain the government. That constitution has become ever more worthless as a constraint on the power of the central government as time has passed.
Perhaps it is time for the various states of the USA to also consider an exit.
Re-Form to reform.
IMO, the US should shred all legislation EXCEPT our Constitution. Common Law would prevail until new statutes are passed; this time with absolute deference to the Constitution.
Allow me to reiterate: ” Frexit, Grexit, Departugal, Italeave, Czechout, Oustria, Finish, Slovakuum, Latviaticum and Byebyegium.”
!
The best one I’ve seen so far is “Copenhatin'”.
“Czechout”
I saw “Austria la vista” on the news yesterday. Best said with a thick German accent and “baby” at the end. 🙂
Rex Murphy: Results of the Brexit referendum is a rebuke to Western elites
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/rex-murphy-results-of-the-brexit-referendum-is-a-rebuke-to-western-elites
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/06/24/thank-you-america/comment-page-1/#comment-2244768
Rex Murphy: Results of the Brexit referendum is a rebuke to Western elites
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/rex-murphy-results-of-the-brexit-referendum-is-a-rebuke-to-western-elites
[excerpt]
The often-ignored, sometimes quite rudely deplored British people have spoken and, to the horror of enlightened opinion, respectable party leaders, the ever-guiding liberal intelligentsia, have decided they don’t want “in” the European Union. The vote comes as a mighty shock to broad-minded continentalists and supranationalists everywhere, but particularly the high elites of British politics. The Guardian’s readership will need special help — grief counsellors are already overwhelmed.
The EU vote is the most dramatic illustration to date of how the “guiding elites” of many Western countries have lost the fealty and trust of their populations. Of the gap between ordinary citizens, facing the challenges of daily life, and the swaddled, well-off and pious tribes of those who govern them, and increasingly govern them with a mixture of moralistic superiority and witless condescension.
Here here!
Congratulations to Britain who will once again lead the way and show the world that freedom and liberty over the tyranny of the Marxists must be the path we take.
Marxists ????
Many warmist watermelons are indeed Marxists, of whatever variety: Trotskyites, Leninists, Harpos, Grouchos…
Some of the Eurocrats are indeed Marxists, but all are surely tyrants.
We finns would not call it Finish, the EU is so broken and messed up, se the better acronym would perhaps be Fixit.
Fixit (latin) means “spread.” May I assume that you intend for democracy to spread at the expense to the EU Commisariat?
Thank you Lord Monckton, for this brilliant article which shows clearly what actually the glorification of a disaster, foolishness and stupidity is.
The British have just gone down on record very clearly as a nation that can at any moment jeopardize its own economy and that of its economical partners and allies in a “single moment” by playing the freedom and democratic card irresponsibly.
Enjoy your independence as long as you can, but is hard to think, very hard actually, that after this the Britain can seriously think or imagine a possible serious economical relation with any real significant other economy in this world unless is prepared to surrender its freedom and its independence and take a position of a vassal, as no any other significant economy out there will really take the chance and gamble in an equal basis economic relation or partnership with Britain any more for a long time to come till the record established now is changed.
Neither, America, EU, China or any other potential economies can afford such a gambling.
So enjoy your freedom, your independence and your democracy in to your isolation, for as long as it lasts.
Wish you really all the best, regardless.
Maybe you guys there need to have a hands on experience and really know how it feels for once to be a proper economical vassal, and the “beauty” and the “independence” of the isolation in this modern era..
At least through your free will you guys got what you actually wished for……..
It is weird Lord Monckton, isn’t it, even you I think did not really believe that it will come to this kind of result of the referendum and democracy……very weird indeed…:)
Wish you and your country all the best, and hopefully I am wrong and you are right.
cheers
Whiten, you speak as if Great Britain has been a vassal of the EU for centuries; obviously, it has not. This short-term experiment in collectivism/Marxism has been a burden to givers and a boon to takers in the EU. Of course, the attitude you display is exactly what endears you to the Kommisars–they don’t want freedom-loving, positive people since such are difficult to control and abuse. I’m surprised you’d equate freedom with isolationism, for the very opposite is true.
RockyRoad
June 25, 2016 at 6:34 am
Whiten, you speak as if Great Britain has been a vassal of the EU for centuries; obviously, it has not.
—————————————————
Rocky, I do not see where you got the idea expressed in the above selected statement of yours.
Actually from my point of view is the other way around.
If there was a vassal in the EU- Britain economic relation that vassal was EU, not UK.
In most economic relations of the past UK always has managed to be in control, not a vassal, or at least equal on its position.
UK even through its force managed to keep its own currency, the Pound versus Euro…….and for a long time managed to milk and extra profit in the expense of Euro and the EU economy , through that “trick” forced on the EU vassal, till the tables turned around at the moment of the last global economic shock or crises, when actually the EU economy could not offer the buffer for the Pound which at that time did put the UK economy under the consequences of the isolation clause.
Instead of extra profiting the UK economy starting to “bleed”……..
Strangely enough very soon after the prospect of a referendum on the UK-EU relation is offered as a democratic means to the British, and now there is its result…….
Definitely Cameron and the British government did not intend to have such a result, I think.
cheers
The UK is not, has never been and never will be isolationist and not one of the ‘Brexit’ politicians is suggesting that we ever should be. We have been a mid Atlantic trading nation for a very long time and that is why such a small country has the fifth largest economy in the world – if anything the single market and rule from Brussels has done its best to take this position away from us. Brexit is not isolationist it is freedom. Why would you suppose that the nations that benefit from our trade would suddenly not want to trade with us – a large part but not the majority of trade is with Europe, the larger part is with the rest of the world – without the trade restriction imposed on relationship with the rest of the world I for one cannot see how we can fail to prosper
‘the fifth largest economy in the world ‘
Actually, dropped to sixth or seventh yesterday when your pound collapsed on forex markets. That’s Brexit for you – enjoy it as there’s more to come.
mwh
June 25, 2016 at 8:13 am
Sorry mwh,
You people have just voted out of anything….
No one can help you for some time to come as you already in free-fall and in no man’s land.
Actually no up to you any more. Your credibility over night disappeared.
You end it up from a five star country to no star country, 0 stars.
No matter what you may wish and want after this, you will not have it for a time, is not up to you actually.
You may want to play but the main players no matter how much will want to play also, can’t as you are in no man’s land till your negotiation of your exit from EU is done and you out of it.
Your tag prize is a volatile one till than, no one will want to risk.
You can not have it both ways..
You are already in isolation, even while it may take a while for you to realize it, and be aware of your foolishness.
The best way out you may hope and wish is a fast negotiation with EU and a fast exit for you, so you can be back in an economical relation with EU again ,but as a vassal this time. with no vote or veto rights, with no any real independence.
You “ffucked” badly with your neighbors, put them in a very bad and difficult economical position, And the same neighbors are the kindest of partners that you can have in the future.
Is in their best interest that you get supported out of your isolation….but you see, you did it to your self…. and bizarrely can’T realize that you actually voted pro isolation……
Sorry mate, I wish it could have been different, reality at times is sad.
cheers
Whiten is a perfect example of the delusional world of the liberal left !
@ Hoplite Interesting that someone who uses a name that was that of a lance and shield armed foot soldier in ancient Greece should be weighing in on economic issues. The Greek GDP ranks behind those of such economic powerhouses as Portugal and Bangladesh.
Thanks guys, the 2 responses rather belittle themselves. I am confident that the UK has given my children the best chance for a decent future unshackled by the monstrous bureaucracy that is the EU. I just hope that this signals a bout of deregulation and backing off of the ‘nanny state’. Its hard to believe (in the Brexit film above) that some 10,000 EU bureaucrats earn more than our Prime Minister, and I wonder how many ‘remainers’ if asked on polling day would be able to name their current commissioner or even their MEP – seeing as the commissioner is the only person who can suggest Laws to be voted in (so long as the commission agrees) by the Parliament. The Parliament itself is completely powerless as it cant propose new laws or repeal old ones. Korea has trade deals worth over 10 times the amount that the EU has with the rest of the world and we dont need deals as a nation to trade with the rest of the world – Politicians who are keen on meddling generally just mess things up.
mwh,
Clearly neither of the two replying to your comment watched Jimmy Haigh’s link to the Watson commentary on Brexit.
But that’s OK, I don’t think they’d get it. Apparently they didn’t read Lord Monckton’s article, either.
Published last March:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/03/19/claim-britain-leaving-the-eu-endangers-the-paris-climate-treaty/comment-page-1/#comment-2169685
Britain should leave the EU, because:
The EU is a ridiculously bureaucratic organization that drains the life out of its economies through its many dysfunctional policies, of which global warming alarmism and green energy nonsense are major components. Many EU countries are quietly retreating from green energy schemes as fast as their masters can politically do so, without admitting that they have been utterly fooled by green energy scams that are not green and produce little useful energy.
Cheap, abundant reliable energy is the lifeblood of society – it IS that simple.
A humble suggestion:
Establish an international trade organization to include those countries that follow British Law, descended from Magna Carta, now 801 years of age. This would include Great Britain, Ireland, Canada, the United States of America, Australia, New Zealand, India, and some others.
I suggest we could feed Britain much better and less expensively that Europe can, without all the ridiculous bureaucracy that typifies the EU. I suggest the British people would fare much better under this organization, and would avoid the eccentric policies that the EU frequently imposes on its citizens.
The EU is a failed experiment, the result of decades of policy-making by scoundrels and imbeciles. Britain should leave the EU before íts people suffer further harm, in terms of rising costs and reduced energy security.
I would extend this to a United Nations of the truly democratic nations of the world. A quick reminder of who sits on the United Nations Human Rights Council quickly demonstrates why. Among the stalwarts of human rights are China, Cuba, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Viet Nam and too many African countries to sort out.
QED
Very good point RayG
About 90% of the countries in the world have no real Human Rights and no real Rule of Law.
Having done business on six continents, I have no illusions about this reality.
The UN has become a Shakespearean farce, and a tragedy for humankind.
Best, Allan
Be Strong
Be of good courage
God Bless America
Long live the Republic!
I liked the idea of a European Federation (a union of independent nation states working together), but that is not what we got. We got a faux-United States, without the Republican Party. Just Frau Clinton-Merkel.
And when Vcav Claus, the Czech president, appealed for greater democracy and the establishment if an opposition party in the EU parliament, they booed him and walked out of the chamber. So much for democracy.
As to (Prime Minister) Boris:
He is a luke warm climate skeptic, and so the more loony green targets will be dropped.
He is also for a new London airport in the Thames Estuary, which I think would be a good idea. The UK cannot be a leading economic and banking hub, without a wirld-class airport.
Ralph
It is curious that the Lord would advocate democracy so strongly here when he is the beneficiary of an unelected title from his father and he proclaims elegance to the (unelected) Queen.
Ummm, he doesn’t have the power to pass laws that make other people suffer !!!
He has tried to use his unelected title to legislate in the past. And he congratulates the US on the declaration of independence which detailed their refusal to be dictated to by a King and yet he finishes has rant with God Save the (still unelected) Queen – the irony!
The unelected British monarch is subject to Parliament, which writes her speeches for her. The people of Britain can get rid of the monarchy any time they want.
Not so with the faceless rulers of the EU.
ramtastic,
How long did it take you to come up with that non sequitur?
Brilliant reflection. Now perhaps we would Mr Cameron please make public comment on America’s upcoming vote in November? It might help keep the ship upright!
Anthony Watts,
You have very deservedly received much praise over the years for your sterling work here on this website. From a website on general scientific matters, it quickly focussed on the scientific issue du jour and today is the one of the most visited websites on the issue – and deservedly so. I fear however that will quickly change if you allow many more nakedly political articles like this one that have nothing whatsoever to do with science in general and definitely nothing to do with climate change.
I am convinced by the empirical evidence that catastrophic man-made global warming has been conclusively falsified, however I worry sometimes about the bedfellows that that lumps me with when I see this sort of delusional and petty nationalistic ramblings (The Lord talking to his Sovereign – really? and this guy is democracy lovin’??). I am embarrassed to be associated in any way with the political ramblings in this article.
Reading this article and many of the comments I’m really left wondering if this website is all it’s cracked up to be…………I think I will visit less often and take things here with a much larger pinch of salt.
Bye bye
I am afraid that climate has become political, and it is supported by the same political classes that support and benefit from the EU. So a giving black-eye to the EU project is simulaneously giving a black-eye to the climate scaam.
Science should be apolitical, but it is not. Cameron, the great EU supporter, was the politician who wanted to make Britain the greenest ‘province’ in the EU. It was Cameron who hugged huskies in the Arctic, and changed the Tory torch icon into a stupid green tree.
But Boris is a climate luke-warmer, bordering on complete skepticism. Thus this political change in Europe, will also herald a change in climate policy and support (just as it did in Oz recently). Don’t be surprised if Boris orders a review of East Anglia CRU funding, and a review and dissection of any real demonstrable science supporting the climate scaam.
R
Brexit is and will be a disaster for Britain. Just yesterday alone the following happened:
– Sterling dropped by over 8% and had the largest intraday swing in history >10%
– the PM resigned
– motion of no confidence in the opposition leader – he’s toast
– Scotland PM said they will almost certainly hold another secession referendum (they will secede this time)
– NI joint First Minister called for an all-Ireland referendum on re-unification – NI voted stay in
– UK EU commissioner resigned (motion of no confidence was put down against him)
– Bank of England had to re-assure the markets and activate its emergency plan
This is only the beginning and if this is something to celebrate I’m a monkey’s uncle.
Many Brexiteers will turn quickly into Bregreteers. People like Christopher Monckton claim great allegiance to the Unitied Kingdom but the vote means that that kingdom is shortly going to dissolve (anyone with half a brain knew that in advance) as the Scots are most certainly going to remain in the EU and we in Ireland will not accept border posts to NI so either it will re-unify with Ireland or a special arrangement for it will be made. Amusingly, there’s even a petition with 100,000’s of signatures for London to declare itself independent from England and remain in the EU!! – I kid you not.
The leaders of the Brexit campaign are like a dog chasing a bus: having caught up with it they don’t know what to do with it. The Brexit leaders (Johnson and Gove) looked as despondent yesterday as the Remain leaders including Cameron. Their main message yesterday seemed to be that they want to leave the EU – but not yet. There’s conviction for you. The EU tried to keep them in but after the result said firmly they must exit quickly. The British response? ‘Oh no, not yet. We don’t know exactly what we want, who the PM is and how we’re going to negotiate this’ and they are talking about many years to put it into effect. Interestingly BoJo and Gove even refused to take any journalists questions yesterday at the ‘Press Conference’ – quite remarkable for the winning side in a democratic event. I strongly suspect Johnson never wanted Brexit but took the leading role in order to forward his own career (he’s current front runner for the PM job). Now he’s responsible for causing brexit, he is alarmed as he probably knows how damaging this is will be to the UK that Monckton claims such love for.
This is but the first step in a process that can take up to 2 years AFTER the Article 50 notice. As in any divorce, there are many things to be negotiated and as this progresses most will find the positions that benefit both sides. The initial global market reaction is just that, a reaction of fear which will soon subside and the business of business will move forward. It was similar to 1776 when the loyalists spread the word that a disaster awaited from any break with Britain and we all know how that turned out.
And yet Sterling and the Stock Market both rebounded, just as every sentinent commentator predicted.
An independent UK is likely to become the new Switzerland, which happens to be one of the richest nations on the planet. While the EU, bogged down by EU regulation and EU climate laws, is likely to become the new Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, or Pakistan – nations that also live under a similar sclerotic (religious) dictatorship.
Germany is not giving up its nuclear power and doubling its energy costs based upon science, safety or economics, it is doing so to conform to the papal bulls of a new Green religion. And these absurd creed-based regulations will have the same effect as the absurd creed-based rules and regulations in Islamia – it will stiffle industry and production, and result in decay and poverty.
Remember that even an industrious people can be brought to their knees by absurd regulation. Even the industrious Gremans were brought to their economic knees by the absurd diktats of the socialist USSR. Even the industrious Syrians, which was once the wealthiest province in the Roman and Byzantine empires, were brought to their knees by Islam. And in a very similar fashion, the EU will be brought to its knees by the fantasy politics and the fantasy technology of the Euro-Greens.
R
Ralf,
Fact bomb: sterling ended up around 1.35 down from 1.5. The lowest in the day was just under 1.33. Some rebound!! Stop kidding yourself. It will of course fluctuate but the longer term trajectory is down.
Hoplite – the average pound-dollar rate over the last six months was 1:40, and it is now 1:36. What is the problem? Stop trying to make a crisis out of nothing.
If you can’t see there is a crisis facing Britain now on so many fronts then you are in complete denial. Btw the low sterling rate recently was due to the Brexit fears. No point arguing – what’s done is done and time will tell what the future holds for England & Wales.
England and Wales will be better off without NI and Scotland. The Scots will be free to be as Commie as they want to be. When oil revenues run low, they’ll beg to be let back into the Sterling Zone and out of the funny money Eurozone.
The Pound won’t stay low forever, but in the meantime, its decline will boost British (or English and Welsh, less Scottish) exports.
Switzerland and Norway have prospered outside the EU, and so will the UK or England and Wales.
Why should there not be an independent Scotland and a united independent Ireland? Good luck to them too
All established businesses go through phases of retrenchment: trim the fat, re-implement disciplined control and efficiency. I believe that the sovereign countries that make up Britain will be better off in the long term.
Europe has always been messy. No one could envy their predicament and that has not gotten better. That part is sad
point 1 markets go up and down – Bexit was always going to see movement – by end of friday Sterling recovered and the stock market ended higher than the start of the week (BTW 1 day of turmoil is not going to suddenly drop UK down the rankings especially seeing as the nations just below faired even worse in their own stock markets)
Point 2 – he damned well should resign – he has lied, bullied and attempted to frighten the nation along with his Chancellor. He used his position and the Civil Service and stiil lost. Much as they both seem like decent blokes, I never want to see them again and nor do most people in the UK.
Point 3 – and that matters at all? Corbyn is a decent man but was persuaded to take a line he doesnt believe in – he has more credibility with ordinary Labour voters than his fellow MPs. I would rather see those that call for his resignation and campaigned for Remain do the decent thing and resign. That way there would be a half credible Labour Party and a good opposition that would be needed to unravel the UK from the monstrous EU. The no confidence vote will not make a jot of difference to what happened on thursday
Point 4 – If the Scottish want independance so badly and want to cosy up to the EU I wish to goodness they would stop bleating and just go, they are now (since thursday) a massive liability to the progress of the UK. If the independance vote was nationwide they probably would already have gone and with the drastic change in oil price would be on the way to bankruptcy. UK might no longer be in the top 10 nations without Scotland but where would Scotland be without the UK. Personally I think Nicola Sturgeon is just stirring the pot – the Scottish would not be that daft would they?
Point 5 – N Ireland voting by a not huge majority to remain is not the same as asking whether they wish to remain in the UK – wont happen no matter what.
Point 6 – so what – nobody new who he was or what he did and nobody outside of the Brussels Elite had any say in his appointment in the first place and he wasnt working for the UK but for the Commission. Seeing as the UK has just voted ‘no confidence’ in the EU then it follows the UK has no confidence in the commissioner. If we could vote no confidence in the entire commission we would and have tried several times to bring their book keeping to account but to no avail – that is one of the greatest undemocratic problems with the entire monolithic EU structure
Point 7 – and very good at reassuring they are too – thats why the market recovered – well done BoE job well done
If Johnson and Gove could leave tomorrow I am quite convinced that they would – the enforced ‘negotiations’ will be expensive and spiteful I am sure but worth every penny, they didnt set the timetable – Cameron did and there is little they can do about it even though he is now on the way out – there is a process you know! Johnson may have been a closet remainer but he chose Brexit and now he needs to follow through or let someone else do it – thats why there is a process (good grief)
Get over it Hoplite – you need some time with your family’s monkeys!!
‘UK EU commissioner resigned (motion of no confidence was put down against him)’. (Hoplite 08:14)
When was a motion of no confidence put down against Lord Hill? Who did it? Can’t find any reference to that.
From the BBC: ‘He will be replaced by Latvian politician Valdis Dombrovskis, currently European Commissioner for the euro.
Asked whether the UK would be sending anyone to Brussels to take Lord Hill’s place on the Commission, Downing Street said: “It will be for the next prime minister to decide, following discussions with European partners, what role the UK plays in the European Commission, given we remain a full member of the EU until we have left.”‘
The Uk doesnt appoint or ‘send’ commissioners. The commission appoints a commissioner to the UK portfolio.
Some Euro MP’s were to put the motion to the European parliament and announced to media they would do so. See Financial Times.
“Brexit is and will be a disaster for Britain.”
Absolute, 100% 24-carat uninformed – pig ignorant in fact – nonsense.
You really haven’t a clue.
I notice in Monckton’s rantings here against the EU he mentions only 2 out of the 3 institutions. The one he left out? The council of ministers of course. They are the directly elected representatives in the governments of the individual members. They are the sole obstacle to creating more direct accountability in the other EU institutions as they refuse to concede any further democratic accountability to the EU as they see that as a threat to their own authority. The British government has been foremost in taking that stance. Ironic, then that Brits like Monckton blame that democratic deficit then on the institutions themselves and not on their own government that they elected.
Btw what will the ‘British’ flag look like after the exit of Scotland and possibly N Ireland? Suggestions on a postcard please…….Monckton get drawing.
Letter in today’s Telegraph.
SIR – As a southern Irishman, I would like to express my thanks to all in the United Kingdom who voted for democracy above capitalism.
We in Ireland were bullied by Europe in the economic crash and were forced to bail out the euro, while our politicians turned the other way.
In the centenary year of our own independence, the vote will be a lifeline for Ireland’s democratic future.
Nick Crawford
Dalkey, Co Dublin, Ireland
Nigel – Ireland has always had obsequious West Brits. Nuttin’ new there. And a Telegraph reader!! – you need know no more about the guy to know his politics.
I guess it’s a question of to whom you are obsequious. Your choice seems to be EU.
Astonishing short memory. The Irish were net receivers not contributers of vast sums of EU money for a decade or more because their public services and infrastructure were way below standards in the rest of the EU. They went on a massive spending spree partly from EU money and mostly from cheap borrowed money, just like Greece, Spain etc and when suddenly they were called to pay back that debt they call foul. These countries especialy Greece borrowed too much money that they could never pay back. This is the reason their economies are toast and also the reason why they now face austery and cutbacks. Self inflicted financial pain yet some how it is the EU’s fault. I lived in Dublin at the height of this boom growth and I remember asking people then how could the tiny Irish economy fund all this building of infrastructure? The answer was always the same. The EU. Now we have people claiming the EU has bullied them? Have your cake and eat it to springs to mind.
Ireland is a partner in the European project. Quite different to our experience of, ahem, ‘partnership’ with England for eight centuries. We Irish know the who are friends really are. The European project is in our interests and we are and will benefit greatly from it as well as contribute to it meaningfully as a small nation. Our ‘partnership’ with England left us Cromwellian massacres, penal laws, famine and economic ruin.
Directly elected? By whom?
Gabro – by the UK electorate in the general election. It is the members of that government that sit in the council of ministers.
That is not direct election, which means that the entire electorate votes.
The people don’t get to elect their commissars and councilors in Brussels. Their pals in office, who look forward to the EU’s cushy pay and perks for themselves in future chose them. That is indirect election at best, but certainly not direct election by the people.
Hoplite-
Did it not occur to you that the fall of the British pound has been a long time in the making, as the sound monetary footings have been eroded by the faceless and unelected bureaucrats, the minions of those hands on the reins, to which you publicly come here and pledge allegiance?
As far as I can see, the British people have thrown off the serfs yoke which has slowly been fitted round their necks. Monckton sees that, regardless of whether his Scot neighbors would rather act up than stand up as independent men and women.. You Leave Monckton Alone!
Ps You said you were leaving, yet here you still are.
In 1973, when Britain joined what would become the EU, the Dollar-Pound exchange rate was $2.45.
I recall, since I was in grad school there then.
In reply to “Hoplite”, I did not mention the Council of “ministers” because this is not a council of ministers but yet another cabal of unelected, unaccountable, unsackable bureaucrats.
And don’t imagine that Scotland will leave the UK in a hurry. There was a large margin against Sexit in the recent referendum, notwithstanding the near-unanimous support for it among the usual suspects and chattering classes in Scotland, because the people realized full well that leaving the UK would mean canceling the massive English subsidies, as well as leaving the EU. The Scottish economy is run on quasi-Communist lines because it is extravagantly subsidized by England. Without those subsidies, Scotland would fail, as the superb independent analysis for the Scottish Research Society showed.
If Scotland were to leave the UK, England and Wales would be more prosperous to the extent of the subsidies that now flow northward. The SRS analysis, like almost all other serious analyses, indicated that Scotland would face bankruptcy within months if the English subsidies stopped.
Monckton, precisely the same things were said by the English in the 20’s about Ireland that we would never be capable of governing ourselves without the steady (read Protestant and not feckless Catholic) hand of England at our tiller. While Ireland didn’t enjoy the post-war boom it started to catch up in the 60’s. Today Ireland is one of the fastest growing economies in the world. I think we can give the Scots the confidence that they can indeed go it alone without the English there in loco parentis.
I am more than a little curious why people like you and Rees Mogg pledge such undying loyalty to a state when you are not members of that state’s official religion and ineligible to hold its Prime Ministerial office due to your Catholic faith (Blair deferred his conversion to Catholicism until he left that office to avoid a constitutional crisis). Maybe it’s a kind of Stockholm syndrome.
Hoplite, you really are most extraordinarily ignorant.
And very rude and unpleasant with it.
Grow up.
Catweazle – you’re English I assume. You probably are horrified at such accusations of institutional sectarianism in your beloved country. Don’t shoot the messenger though as he is only saying what is in fact the constitutional reality in Britain today. I understand why English Catholics tend to keep their heads down and not emphasise their faith that has traditionally been treated so badly in the English reformation and subsequent penal law history. I don’t get, however, why they so publicly and studiously ignore the last vestiges of that sectarianism which undeniably are still in existence and which have no place in this world.
Hoppy,
You are indeed profoundly ignorant.
There is no barrier to a Catholic being PM. Monarch, yes.
The last Labour PM was a nominally Jewish atheist. Blair attended Catholic services while PM.
Gabro
Start with this:
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/91663/jim-murphy-says-uk-is-not-ready-to-elect-a-catholic-prime-minister/
The Act of Settlement of 1701 explicitly prohibits Catholics (and only Catholics) from being heirs to the throne or being married to same. It is truly extraordinary that up until only a couple of years ago an heir to the throne in Britain could not marry a Catholic. They could marry an atheist, Muslim, Sikh, Mormon or whatever, but explicitly not a Catholic – by law.
Just to show how modern, progressive and egalitarian Britain really is, this law was only PARTIALLY repealed in 2013. A Catholic is still prohibited BY LAW from being an heir to the throne today in Britain. This is because England and Wales are the only countries in Europe or North America to have a state religion and the head of state is also the head of that state church.
What of the Prime Minister’s office? Well, constitutionally, amongst his many duties is the role is to advise the head of the state church (the Queen) on episcopal appointments and other ecclesial matters as required. However, it is against the law for a Catholic (and only a Catholic) to so advise or influence the monarch on these matters. Hence there is a constitutional impediment – even though there is no law explicitly stating that a Catholic cannot be Prime Minister – which is what you are relying on to muddy the waters and pretend there is no sectarian character to the British establishment today.
Tony Blair deferred his conversion until after he left office, so as to avoid legal and constitutional difficulties, he was though attending Mass with his family (who are Catholics) which is certainly not the same as being a Catholic. In no other country in Europe or North America would his religion have been of interest – but it certainly was to the media in Merry Protestant Old England. The Scottish Labour MP in the article above clearly believes even today that a Catholic PM in Britain is a no no to many English.
In Northern Ireland in recent years, we saw the most vicious aspects of this sectarianism in Belfast when Protestant adults were intimidating, shouting at and spitting on young Catholic girls who were just on their way to school and had to be shielded by their parents from it and run through that gauntlet. So, self righteous were these bigots they dared do it all in front of the world’s media. We, in Ireland, have experienced this caustic sectarianism for centuries and know it and its consequences only too well. The Irish man and founder of the European conservative political movement, Edmund Burke, expressed it well when speaking about the penal laws enacted by the English as: “a machine of wise and elaborate contrivance, as well fitted for the oppression, impoverishment and degradation of a people, and the debasement in them of human nature itself, as ever proceeded from the perverted ingenuity of man.”
Don’t know who the last Labour Jewish PM you are referring to. Brown was not Anglican but Church of Scotland. He certainly wasn’t Jewish – atheist or otherwise.
Super, Excellent, Eliquent well put together piece.
Rule Britannia
Consilium (the Council of Ministers) is elected?
By who? Not by the people.
And if they are not elected, they are not accountable.
BTW, The Consilium logo is the All Seeing Eye:
And good ol’ United Kingdom just socked it to the EU, right in the eye!
Independence Day — Welcome to earth.
(youtube)
We hold these Truths to be SELF evident… -That to secure these rights Governments are instituted (upon principles of righteousness) among (mere) men, deriving their Just powers from the CONSENT of the Governed!! (Declaration of Independence – 1776)
My personal “Consent” as an American and an Americanist is The Constitution of the United States. You don’t have to be an American to be an Americanist! You only need realize the TRUTH in the words ALL men are created Equal – no one is more human or less human than any other human – CONTRARY to Karl Marx’s lament that the Middle Class destroyed the Feudal System and the idyllic relationship between man and his Natural Superiors, the lords of the Feudal Estate!
Socialism – communism – IS – the feudal estate!
The Feudal Lords have no less an objective than to STEAL THE ENTIRE PLANET for themselves!
The Brexit demonstrates that their power is still primarily vested in what LIES they can sell to the minions and how can they Deceive and trick us further! We need only be educated to the truth and then determined to destroy the lies!
THANK YOU Britain for standing up for true human rights where the defense of the minority starts with defending the rights of the smallest minority of all – the minority of ONE!!
Cupio Dissolvi
Ask to the patients that will no longer able to freely move to and from UK to find better cures
Ask to scientists who are funded by EU grants (and use the money also to pay younger UK scientists who have to start theirs careers.
Ask to anybody who have ongoing cross border joint ventures.
This is a wired concept of freedom
Dear Carlo Napolitano,
There are free-market (i.e., non-EU) solutions to every one of those problems! There will be a bit of a transition period, but, all of those concerns can be easily handled by UK legislation and other measures.
Prendere il coraggio a due mani — and LIVE FREE!!!
#(:))
Take care, over there in Italia,
Janice
An honest and ethical “deal” (business or political) is one where both parties “get what they want and paid for”, even in the fine print.
With the EU and the UN and (fill in the blank), only the controlling “party” gets what it wants.
The bigger the bureaucracy, the more totalitarian it becomes. “Left” or “Right” doesn’t matter then. The slower it grows, the less likely the minions will notice they’ve becomes cogs in a machine, a Government, gone wrong.
Someone quoted the Declaration of Independence above. It bears repeating.
Congratulation to the UK for cutting themselves free from the particular “Form of Government” called the EU.
PS Building walls and divisions has never been a good way to freedom. Surely is tougher to find ways to stay together than to break everything apart (easiest and quicker solution)….. cupio dissolvi
Dear Carlo Napolitano,
The UK just broke out of the prison wall in which the nations of the EU languish, enslaved by socialist policies. We need not link arms and stumble along in a line to get along, you know. We can, as frightening as this may sound, simply meet together, shake hands on a deal, and walk away, back to our own castle — with a wave and a smile!
Courage!
Janice
Well said, Janice
Why, thank you, I mean, merci, Monsieur Richards! 🙂
😎
And as far “divisions” based on race, ethnicity, or whatever goes; ever been in a major US city on St. Patrick’s Day? For a day, everybody’s Irish that wants to be.
Key point: If they want to celebrate it, they can. If they don’t want to celebrate it, they won’t have the police forcing them to watch the parade go by.
Personal freedom allows that.
“PS Building walls and divisions has never been a good way to freedom. Surely is tougher to find ways to stay together than to break everything apart (easiest and quicker solution)….. cupio dissolvi”
Except when you are being overwhelmed by fools and bandits.
Then erecting barricades and dividing your attackers is essential.
Kleptocracy has yet to be reformed from within,collapse is the usual way that parasitic overload has been resolved in past civilizations.
The unelected,unaccountable agencies all love the super country,citizen of the world symbolism.
The people who foot the bill?. Not so much.
The current crop of educated beyond all wisdom, life time feeders at public troughs, are arrogant beyond belief, in their ignorance.
Human nature has changed very little.
Fools,bandits and the insane have always been part of life, however productive people do not enjoy being ruled by such.
There has been no historical example of rule by fools,thieves or crazies ending well for the ordinary citizen.
The upcoming collapse of what we call the financial system will educate some people way beyond their comfort zones. And collapse it will because the public trust has been massively betrayed by our current elitist leaders.(No trust No trade).
+10
Building walls and divisions has never been a good way to freedom.
Hmm. #B^) Since when?
Kommissars with a President appointed by Merkel,
?quality=75&strip=color
Chancellor of the Free World
Do you know where your treaty-signing Boomer president is? Do you know what is in Clinton’s emails? They probably contain her work in forging TTIP in secret with the European Commission.
And Britain somehow got out!
Britain does not yet know have brave and foresighted they have been. I had English friends at my door today worried sick about the brexit vote. I explained that it was very likely the beginning of the end that will come in 5 to 10 yrs but that when it does the British in EU countries will be fine (stressed) because the UK economy will be flourishing and the £ € will be enormous. Difficult to carry the €s around surely but they will be relatively rich and able to return to the UK.
image
Merkel Chancellor of the Free World
http://media.vogue.com/r/w_480/2015/12/09/time-person-of-year.jpg
Christopher Why is this your last broadcast.?
@ Gabro June 24, 2016 at 5:25 pm said:
“She was a “Red Bolling”, ie descended from Matoaka “Pocahontas” Powhatan. Most Bollings are “White”, but there are also a few “Blue Bollings”.”
But were the Bollings green?
Only in Kentucky.
“PS Building walls and divisions has never been a good way to freedom. Surely is tougher to find ways to stay together than to break everything apart (easiest and quicker solution)….. cupio dissolvi”
I don’t suppose the East Germans would have agreed with you before ’89
Cameron resigns . How convenient …. for him . Looks good on this pretender .
The UK will be just fine and now that some “hard ” work is about to start the light weight EU puppets leave .
Quite a blow for the scary global warming industry and so well deserved . Let’s hope fuel poverty deaths will begin to decline .
Cameron should be walked to the door before he and his tribe can pull any stunts before October .
Amber
June 25, 2016 at 12:31 pm
He could not have stayed any more. as the referendum lost all its meaning and purpose at the moment that an elected politician was killed, murdered, for not saying massacred, and he did not have the courage to have delayed the referendum or stopped it altogether.
It already had backfired prior even of taking place……….against any expectation.
The referendum was his call and he could have stopped or delayed it under that circumstance, if he had courage enough, and in mean time honor the lost one.
He let it go completely out of his hands, and has no much choice but to leave now.
cheers
The random actions of a complete nutter should not determine the future path of a nation. For such a terrible thing to happen was awful but even though the actions of her killer were linked to the referendum, the actual effect was a swing back to remain in the polls of some 3%. I hardly think she would have wanted her death to stop the democratic process – she seemed to be an honest, hard working and dedicated politician.
To use this to bolster your argument is poor indeed
Congrats to Lord Monckton and the Leave campaigners and voters. Much work now needs to be done, both to extirpate yourselves from the creeping bureaucratic tyranny of the EU, and also to start rebuilding the economy of Britain under your own rules. You had to destroy your fishing boats under EU rules, but maybe now a fishing industry can start to grow again. American business is anxious to trade with you. Obama will soon be gone (thank God/Allah/Satan/Zeus) and when he’s gone, I humbly ask on behalf of my countrymen, that the people of Great Britain condescend to send back the bust of Winston Churchill Obama ignorantly rejected at the beginning of his term. If you do, I think it’s safe to say it will never be returned again. Anyway, a good economic result, based on lots of individual efforts, entrepreneurship, and good will, over time, is the best way to make Fabian world government Utopians cry.
heh….you would think none of these countries survived before there was a EU
Including the US globalization carp
And some people are still trashing a bunch of countries that have taken in millions of legal and illegal refugees, some of the terrorists
..without shining the mirror on the Arab world
Muslims would not put up with us in their countries for one second…and they don’t
Remember that about a quarter of the UK population chose not to exercise their democratic right to vote, presumably because they did not feel strongly enough on the issue. We can therefore assume they are equally happy to accept the outcome of the referendum either way. It is therefore can be argued that around three quarters of the population are happy to leave the EU, not just the 52% that said so out load!
Now I’ve thought about it – my maths was a bit wrong: 52% of the 73% turnout voted leave, plus the remaining 27% who didn’t bother to vote means about two thirds of the population did not vote to remain in the EU.
“…Departugal, Italeave, Czechout, Oustria, Finish…”
Those five words were worth the price of admission. Thank you, M’ Lord.
“Remainia”
Wins!
Sadly it’s all an illusion. There’ll be another referendum, just like the Irish had to vote several times on the Euro. The Eurocrats will work with the Elite to block the exit. Good reasons to remain in the EU will be found, and the next PM will agree that the referendum is not legally binding.
I would love to be wrong.
Yes, but in the meantime the UK will win the cup as we danes did in 1992 after refusing Maastrict – If you can’t join them – beat them!
Niels
June 25, 2016 at 2:20 pm.
Not very workable, besides lot of damage already done.
It will take time to implement such as, something that does not seem as a luxury anymore to the Brits now, still in no man’s land for longer, simply extending the problem and the expense for a longer period…
Unless the next PM, gets to have “Iron Bolls” and outright default the referendum as unacceptable, as soon as he can, and shows a very good reason, then is no much else to do, but accept the condition for better or worse
cheers.
Well, that didn’t take long !! LOL
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/25/brexit-remorse-uk-lawmaker-calls-for-parliament-to-ignore-eu-referendum-as-millions-call-for-second-vote.html?intcmp=hpbt1
I hardly think that the petition will get far as this has been discussed for months and a referendum held that the 2 million petitioners lost – hardly going to be taken seriously is it. We didnt get a second crack at it in 1975 why should there be a second vote now. All that would happen is the EU will make a few consessions to swing the vote and then hold another referendum. The next weeks will be interesting in France and Germanys……oops the EUs response (after all Hollande and Merkel are meeting on Monday or is that just pure conicidence)
I think England left the EU just in time. Think of all that money England is going to save, and all that EU debt England is going to avoid. Good timing.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/24/46-6b-annual-cost-hated-eu-rules-caused-brexit/
“Open Europe is a non-partisan think tank with offices in London and Brussels that produces an annual report measuring the cost burden of 40,000 EU-derived legal acts, 15,000 Court verdicts and 62,000 international standards on the United Kingdom.
Their 2015 report for the “Top 100” regulations estimated the financial burden on the UK economy at $46.6 billion. To put that drain on the economy in perspective, the top 100 EU regulations cost more than the $37.8 billion in local property taxes, called “Council Tax,” paid by British citizens to the UK Treasury last year.”
As an example.
Movements are afoot in Spain, Italy, France, the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden at least to have referenda. The results might well be to Remain in all those countries, but in many nations, the people at a minimum want to have a say on staying in what has become a dictatorship by the venal and greedy rather than the union as which it was sold.
But if there are Nexits and Swexits, the EU could end up looking like the Third Reich in Lebensraum as well as in its form of regime, ie Germany and its Eastern European colonies. Possibly allied with Italy and maybe dominating northern France and the Low Countries, with a neutral Spain, but opposed by Russia and its subject and client states.
I’m Dutch and sick of a bureaucratic EU.
Nevertheless, I would want to know ALL the consequences before casting a vote on Nexit.
Bureaucrats needs up to 2 years to sort things out, so no Nexit within 2 year.
Antony,
I am a long time reader of this website, and I will continue to be a reader of this website. However the political ignorance of some of the commentators is utterly breathtaking. Leaving the EU will have serious and long lasting negative consequences for the UK economy. In fact the UK as we know it is over. The previous referendum on Scottish independence will now be repeated, only this time the Scots will vote to leave the UK, because the people of Scotland wanted to remain in the EU. A fact which seemed to escape Mr Trump. The people of Scotland were not ‘going wild about the election’ or happy they were taking their country back from the EU. The people of Scotland are severely pissed off with the Brexit result. How can the Republican Presidential nominee get this so spectacularly wrong? I’ll tell you how, it is because he is as the Scots would say, an utter numpty.
Anthony, this site is at its strongest when it sticks to the science.
Yours,
A very patriotic, Englishman.
Maybe The Donald was hanging out with the 38% of Scots who voted Out. Or maybe he was just watching TV from England.
IMO, the benefits to the UK, or to England and Wales, should the other two nations split, will outweigh the negatives, sooner rather than later.
In most of England outside of London, Out won by landslides, ie more than ten percentage points. The people have spoken. Democracy’s a bitch.
The Scottish Nationalists are mad as hell they didnt win the independence vote. It is therefore not surprising that they would rather see us continue in the sffocating EU rather than have us gain a form of Independence denied for themselves. Why on earth they want to be part of a structure that doesnt care who they are rather than one that has worked in partnership with them for over 200 years to provide the advantages and freedoms and the Scottish individuality they presently have is totally bewildering.
London’s socialist Muslim mayor is reportedly in talks with the Scottish National Socialist Party to figure out how to stay in the EU. Great. Scotland can go Naz! and London can adopt Sharia law, a distinction without a difference.
England can move its capital back to Winchester or maybe set up shop more centrally located, say Leicester.
The Donald said if Scotland wanted to “remain”, he respected their vote. He can deal with the situation any way it works itself out. In or out, Trump doesn’t care. He’ll make a deal with you anyway.
I agree.
I don’t think Anthony should have allowed Mr Monckton to post this article. Political along with religious views should not be a published topic here as it becomes quickly an angry argument that can never be resolved either way. Science can be proved or disproved by data and facts. Yes it has become political but always this can be fought with data and some degree of proof of argument. As can be seen by some of the fact free and emotional dogmatic rantings in this post, this dicussion is going nowhere fast.
I would say though that this post has really shown up how many people on this site that just make stuff up or don’t research the topic of discussion. This is a worry for future credibility.
That should read “should not have allowed”
Most people here have enjoyed the discussion. The relevance of Britain’s exit from the EU to the climate debate is that a future British prime minister, on realizing that precisely the same leftist establishment that promoted and profiteered by the EU also profiteers from and promotes the climate nonsense. Now that Britain has left the ghastly, corrupt EU, expect us at least to think about leaving the ghastly, corrupt climate “process” too.
“I don’t think Anthony should have allowed Mr Monckton to post this article.”
Tough.
His gaff, his rules.
The Guardian is way over there on the Left.
>>>>===========================================================>>
Monckton of Brenchley June 26, 2016 at 12:33 am
Now that Britain has left the ghastly, corrupt EU, expect us at least to think about leaving the ghastly, corrupt climate “process” too.
Jumping the gun somewhat, Britain has not left the EU, rather a non-binding referendum has voted in favor of leaving. Only when the British government formally triggers Article 50 will the process start, and that has not yet happened.
IMO, if Parliament doesn’t follow through on the will of the people, then most of England and Wales will demand a referendum on leaving the UK.
If the vote had gone your way, I’ll bet you wouldn’t have a problem with this thread. I think you are just complaining because you lost.
Unfortunately, Climate science is intimately involved in the political process now, including Brexit, so you are not going to get the politics out of it. It’s here to stay until the science is settled. Then the politics will move on to something else.
“Leaving the EU will have serious and long lasting negative consequences for the UK economy.”
Bollocks.
Stop making stuff up.
“only this time the Scots will vote to leave the UK”
No they won’t.
You can bet your pension on it.
Catweazle666
No negative consequences at all (Sarc)
Is this making stuff up?
http://i1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg529/pbweather/Brext%20poundVusd_zpsxc1ux1vq.jpg?t=1466907030
https://next.ft.com/content/a3a92744-3a52-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-36616955
Honestly to think there will not be financial consequences is just plain cloud cuckoo land.
Mr Monckton,
Some may have enjoyed this discussion, but I still maintain politics and religion belong along side chemtrails as banned topics. To say that discussing Brexit is directly related to the climate debate is just plain rubbish and all you are doing is foisting your politics on to others in a forum which is supposed to try and be even handed in a scientific debate. Sure if the politics is directly related to science then let it be discussed, but this is not the forum for Brexit ranting IMO.
“Is this making stuff up?”
First of all, three days cannot by any stretch of imagination be considered to be “long term”.
Secondly, nobody ever claimed that there would not be some short term disruption.
Third, quite a lot of nations – Greece springs to mind – would dearly love a devaluation far greater than that in their currency, as a weaker currency improves exports and in the case of the UK is already causing a big increase in tourism.
UK tourism set to benefit from weak pound
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/081baa36-3c73-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a.html#axzz4DODtkgZG
The pound’s value has significantly weakened since the Brexit vote, which has prompted a flurry of interest for UK holidays from overseas travellers, according to agents.
US and Chinese travel sites have reported a surge in queries, as travellers hunt for cheaper breaks.
On Friday Kayak said it saw a 54 per cent increase in US searches exploring fares to Britain, compared with other Fridays in the month of June.
http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/684204/Brexit-BOOST-Leaving-European-Union-SURGE-of-tourism-to-Britain
Give it something nearer “long lasting” and try again.
You really don’t understand this international economics stuff, do you?
Oh, and by the way, the FTSE (you DO know what that is, right?) has already recovered all it lost and gained some.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EFTSE#symbol=%5EFTSE;range=1y
Kevin King
You may be 50 years old and you may be technically very clever but you are so ignorant and naive as to the ways people earn money as to be a danger to the very concept of democracy.
I am also very highly qualified and have contributed a great deal to science. However, having been identified as such, rich people saw stealing from me on an industrial scale to be a good thing.
You do not have the right to say that anyone who makes a large amount of money by stealing the efforts of others should be solely imbued with the right to vote. You should die for such heinous, disgusting and criminal beliefs.
As soon as you say that making money is the only criterion for voting you should be sectioned as mentally insane because the aim of the rich is to get richer and make others poorer. If you haven’t learned that by the age of 50, you are mentally deranged, subnormal and a danger to humanity.
You will be sectioned because you are telling those who have compassion and work decently without seeking avariciously to secure wealth at the expense of others to become lesser human beings.
You are typical of the ignorant idiot savants in science who equate technical cleverness with human maturity.
You say that firefighters who died on 9/11 are third rate compared to the insider traders of Wall Street.
You say that nurses who give dignity to those about to die are third rate compared to criminal CEOs who commit accounting fraud to enrich shareholders at the expense of their workers.
You say that grade school teachers are third rate compared to avaricious bankers who deliberately bankrupt SMEs to increase short-term profits.
How you can live with yourself is beyond me.
You are evil beyond belief and have no place having the vote.
Hi rtj1211 ,
after reading your comment, I agree.
A quote from an old friend years ago:
Some people grow up, some people just grow old.
The transnational’s promotion of anti-native and [class] diversity (e.g. racism, sexism) policies progressed to a catastrophic conclusion with their creation of refugee crises and a global humanitarian disaster. It should have been aborted when they normalized reactive parenthood (e.g. one-child, selective-child) and Planned Parenthood (i.e. clinical cannibalism), but redistributive change and threats of disenfranchisement were, apparently, sufficient to exploit humanity’s baser desires and vulnerabilities.
Worth reading because they will use this…
http://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/uk-mp-worrying-link-between-leave-camp-and-climate-change-denial/
http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/brexit-campaign-leadership-dominated-by-climate-sceptics/
I should hope so.
“Climate change” is just one of the means of controlling the plebs and concentrating wealth and power in the hands of new priesthood.
Here are some comments from one of the “Remaindears” I’ve been having a discussion with over the last few days. We Brexiteers would have accepted defeat a lot more gracefully than the Remaindears have. After seeing comments like these I decided to start winding them up a bit.
“Oh great, we’ve managed to wipe 8% off of the Nikkei! Well done people of Britain you’ve just started a new round of global recession…”
“Wonderful, we have set a precedent for letting loose power hungry megalomaniacs across Europe abusing the uninformed idiocy of the great unwashed to grab more power for themselves. There’s an inheritance to be proud of…”
“Just wiped more value off the UK economy than the Leavers have ever bleated about paying out to Brussels.”
“Not even going to bother trying to argue the toss on this on….. I have no choice but to concede that the politicians in Scotland did a far better job of persuading that bulk of the electorate who lack the academic capability to make a reasoned decision on this topic to at least vote the right way in contrast to their counterparts in England and Wales. At this point I see no alternative but to support an independence vote when called by Sturgeon.”
“….. this is more than a short term dip, this is a negative re-alignment of the value of the U.K. economy as a result of our new position on the margins of the world.”
“Wonderful, we have set a precedent for letting loose power hungry megalomaniacs across Europe abusing the uninformed idiocy of the great unwashed to grab more power for themselves. There’s an inheritance to be proud of…”
“This issue was too complex and too important to be put to a plebiscite. Doing so was a gross dereliction of duty by the politicians who couldn’t be bothered to do the hard graft of proving UKIP’s lies to be fallacious and winning the argument.”
Graft?
That neatly sums up the EU eurocracy.
The people have had enough .They want to return to democracy. The philipin especially have voted for a tough man for president he has not even been sworn in yet but his policies are showing improvements.The British have fought off their EU masters .next week we will see the Australian people sack their major parties . And come November the American people will vote Trump in for president .all these things will stir up unrest in some cases but democracy WILL PREVAIL .
Congratulations to the UK for succeeding for the third time in a century German attempts to rule over your people. Welcome back to free nation status and self-guided democracy.
British royalty has german roots, Volkwagen owns Bentley and Rolls Royce.
Perhaps there yet hope . . .
For Scottish Nationalists to say they will quit the UK and remain in the EU is like a passengers in the lifeboat trying to get back on the Titanic.
Exactly!
I think there is a great lesson from another former colony as well. Leading up to the vote, I kept hearing about how much Britain benefitted from the EU, how she woud have so many problems after exiting. My thoughts went back to Ghandi, when he was similarly admonished that independence from Britain would lead to so many problems for India. His response: “Yes, but they will be our problems.”
I’m still laughing about this Brexit thing. You ought to hear these American Leftists on tv whining about this! It’s hillarious! They just go on and on, and you can tell they don’t have a clue as to what just happened.
The lefties actually believe that globalization and additional layers of totally unaccountable government make life better for the ordinary working stiff. The ordinary working stiff is starting to figure out that they don’t.
George Soros: “Brexit means EU disintegration is inevitable.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-25/george-soros-brexit-makes-eu-disintegration-irreversible
I think Brexit will lead to additional countries having referendums and to a loss of confidence in the EU, to investors dumping European bonds, and thence to a banking crisis that will see stock markets down 33% by year-end.
It was bound to happen. The can has finally reached the end of the road. The sooner the better.
The Brits have an excellent opportunity to be the impetus for a second worldwide economic and cultural renaissance.
To be successful, the U.K. must: continue and expand its free-trade policies, implement free-floating interest rates, severely cut government spending, severely cut taxes, severely cut business regulations, blanace its national budget and start paying down its huge national debt,
If the UK doesn’t do things, it’s freedom from EU’s soft tyranny will be squandered and the chance for Renaissance 2.0 will be lost…
No pressure, but: YO! U.K.! DON’T SCREW THIS UP!
alert to moderator: re Kevin King June 25, 2016 at 2:27 pm ; the reference to “not white and male ” is an inappropriate comment.
The vote heard round the world.
Congrats to the Brits on having the intestinal fortitude and intellectual honesty to see the EU for what it was. The 1942 Dr. Walhter Funk plan from the Nazi era. By kicking the EUssr out of Britain it will not be long before others come to their senses.
To the Scots (I’m part) I can only say don’t be so darned pig headed. I know it runs in our blood and it is a stubbornness that has seen us through horrid times but don’t be against something just because the English are for it and vice versa. Judge each item on its own merits and you will see that the English were right this time.
PS. Lord Monckton, tell you pal Nigel that honesty may be the best policy but insanity is a better defence.
thanks to the 17+ million Leave voters.
thanks to Nigel Farage, who must be given a seat at the negotiating table.
thanks to Christopher Monckton for fighting the good fight.
the mighty Christiana had a press conference with the mighty Bloomberg…yet no MSM reported it …it only appears on EurActiv website and on UNFCCC Press page. sshhh! such talk is only for the stakeholders!
22 Jun: EurActiv: James Crisp: UN boss: Brexit would mean rewriting Paris Agreement on climate change
A vote for Brexit in tomorrow’s UK referendum on EU membership (23 June) would mean that the COP21 agreement would have to be rewritten, the executive secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change said today (22 June) in Brussels.
Christiana Figueres, one of the architects of the historic deal struck last December to limit warming to no more than two degrees above pre-industrial levels, said the international pact, “would require recalibration”. It is currently in the process of ratification.
“From the point of view of the Paris Agreement, the UK is part of the EU and has put in its effort as part of the EU so anything that would change that would require a recalibration,” she said at a press conference…
Figueres was alongside Energy Union Commissioner Maros Sefcovic and business magnate Michael Bloomberg, who is also UN special envoy for cities and climate change, to launch the Global Covenant of Mayors…READ ON
http://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/un-boss-brexit-would-mean-rewriting-paris-agreement-on-climate-change/
UNFCCC: Press/News: UN boss: Brexit would mean rewriting Paris Agreement on climate change
Christiana Figueres, one of the architects of the historic deal struck last December to limit warming to no more than two degrees above pre-industrial levels, said the international pact, “would require recalibration”. It is currently in the process of ratification…(EurActiv link)
http://unfccc.int/press/news_room/items/2768.php?topic=all
pat wrote: “thanks to the 17+ million Leave voters.
thanks to Nigel Farage, who must be given a seat at the negotiating table.
thanks to Christopher Monckton for fighting the good fight.”
I read this morning that Farage was not being invited to the party.
Under the British unwritten constitution, treaty negotiations with foreign powers are conducted by Ministers of the elected government. Mr Cameron’s replacement (probably Boris Johnson) will lead the negotiations, and UKIP – not being part of the elected government – won’t have a seat at the table. That’s the way the cookie crumbles, constitution-wise.
But UKIP, led by Nigel Farage, who did more than anyone to get us our referendum, will be there to hold the politicians to account as they try to thwart the plainly-expressed will of the people. Already the National Socialist Workers’ Party of Scotland (under Ms Sturgeon) is showing its utter contempt for mere democracy by saying it will do all it can to prevent the will of the people from being carried out.
I think of Die Führerin of the SNSWP as Frau Murrell.
Let’s see what we have :
– England tells the EU ‘Good riddance to it.’
– The EU Face Jean-Claude Juncker wants to punish the UK like nuns do with children – to prevent further insubordination.
_____________________________
– Good luck to the UK – and
– the EU will cope with a Merkel.CDU / ChristDemagogicUnion / led bureaucracy.
https://www.google.at/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&q=jean+claude+juncker&gfe_rd=cr&ei=JKJvV9nDFsOI8Qe4i5SYCA#gfe_rd=cr&scso=uid_0:9
Fits like a hand in the glove:
Juncker contributed to build world economy crisis, Merkel since 2008 never did anything to restore EU from said crisis – but providing scapegoats
1. Greece
2. UK
3. … wait and see
https://youtu.be/jmXYhpR9nCI
Solution to a divide: Embrace virtualization of countries and split into 2 virtual countries.
I think I have a solution for the current divide on the Isands. The solution stems directly from what proven to be a great success in Information Technology – a concept known as Virtual Machines. In a distant past it the way computers worked was that there could be only one operating system running on a single physical hardware. Notice – operating system is a management software, that governs resoure allocation among applications as well as security and networking. Something similar to a government!
So if you have a computer – you either run Windows or Linux on it, but not both together. But then Virtualization was invented! Virtualization means that you can run multiple operating systems on a single physical hardware. Including incompatible operating systems, the ones that don’t like each other that well – like Windows and Linux toghether on tha same physical hardware. Operating systems can be the same as before, you can even convert a preexisting operating system from running on physical hardware to running on virtualization. And those operating syste ms running in virtualization stil govern their application – virtualization layer The leader on the market – VMware Vsphere – puts a very thin layer of basic hardware governing functions over physical hardware (called VMware ESX) and gives access to these functions to the actual operating systems running a top of it. The actual operating systes (like Windows or Linux) are the ones that offer huge, rich libraies of functionality that they offer applications to use. There’s even a competition between Windows and Linux over who offers the biggest, most extensive functionality for the applications, while VMware ESX stays thin. Those actual operating systems can be: in different IP networks, in different naming domains and so on. Basically like independant from each other.
The equivalent solution for Great Britain would be to embrace Virtualization of Countries and split itself into 2 virtual countries: one called Britain/UK that would leave the EU, and a New Country, that would stay in the EU. They both would be run on the same physical hardware (the Islands), over a thin virtualization layer – which would be like a minimal functionality: just some army, firefighters, flood prevention and so on, under joint chiefs – from both virtual countries. All extended functionality would be within virtual countries. I mean things like the socialism, social services, schools, bureaucracy, and so on.
The solution with virtual countries is the only one that allows people to choose what they want with the EU on an individual basis, without them being forced by others (eg young by old, Scotts by English), while still keeping a single large, strong military (as opposed to eg. Scottland leaving). Each person or corporation would choose where they want to be. They and land they own would be under the law of virtual country they choose. And there are still 2 years to sort the details about the linking infrastructure – roads, power cables and so on, how to deal with that with 2 virtual countries on the same land.
That was the basic virtualization model, similar to Vmware Vsphere: a thin virtualization layer, similar to a minimal government, and the operating systems with extended functionality – similar to full blown bureaucratic governments – running on top of it. But there is another model of virtualization – running one full operating system on top of another full operating system. It is represented by tools like for example Virtual Box. In this model the base operating system controls both the physical hardware, and the application that run on it. But besides the applications it sets aside some resources for a secondary virtual operating system, and gives it an interface to control these resources. The virtual operating that runs on a top of the primary operating system has to call the primary operating system for many functions related to dealing with hardware, but is still an operating system – governs its own applications, and has it’s own rich functionality. In a model of country virualization inspired by such comptuer virtualization model the UK would stay as it is is and leave the EU, but on top of the UK there would be a created a virtual country that would stay in the EU. All extended services – socialism including socialized medicine, schools, and so on would be separate for both the primary country and a virtual country.
Notice the additional benefits of country virtualization: even if muslims become a demographics majority on the islands, on the physical land, country virtualization could protect non-muslims from living under a Sharia law. Muslim majority could just create their own virtual country with a Sharia law, while non-muslims could live outside of it in their own virtual country governed by a secular law.
Rob Roy
The redcoats are coming. They were all British.
The Redcoats may have been, the Germans wore their own uniforms:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessian_(soldier)
About 30,000 German soldiers fought for the British during the American Revolutionary War, making up a quarter of the troops the British sent to America.[3] They entered the British service as entire units, fighting under their own German flags, commanded by their usual officers, and wearing their existing uniforms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_in_the_American_Revolution
“Ethnic Germans served on both sides of the American Revolutionary War. Many supported the Loyalist cause and served as allies of Great Britain, whose King George III was also the Elector of Hanover. Other Germans came to assist the rebelling American patriots, but most of the Germans who were patriots were colonists.
The phrase “the red coasts are coming” is attributed to Paul Revere as he road through the countryside outside of Boston to warn that the British forces in Boston were on the march. This is prior to the battles of Lexington and Concord and well before the British employed German troops.
Dennis, Their hearts weren’t in it though. Perhaps had the Brits issued the Hessians redcoats, they might have felt more loyal to them.
I simply meant that the Colonists considered themselves British.
On a different thread 3 days ago: “UEA: Brexit Remain Vote Probability Zero – UPDATE Brexit WIN Eric Worrall ” I made the following comment:
“Tom in Florida
June 24, 2016 at 5:12 am
To all our British friends, now the hard part begins. Everything that goes wrong will be blamed on the exit vote. There will be a period of “oh no, what do we do now” and a push to reverse the decision. Stand strong, your vote is a victory for all who cherish the belief that the people have the right to determine there own destiny.”
Now a few days later it seems to be coming true.
From The Guardian:
“But there seems to be no immediate legal means out of the stalemate. It is entirely up to the departing member state to trigger article 50, by issuing formal notification of intention to leave: no one, in Brussels, Berlin or Paris, can force it to.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/who-will-dare-pull-trigger-article-50-eu
It’s not in art. 50 but in art.7 of the Maastricht Treaty: “obstruction” of a member state.
You’re welcome
When one cuts to the chase our British cousins voted to remain British and I applaud them for it. The world would be a much poorer place without the heart and soul of Britain.
Congratulations to Great Britain!
There are many swedes that also want a swexit referendum but our current prime minister (social democrat ruling with the greens) have told us that won’t happen.
Hopefully this will change after the election 2018.
Respect,
Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Indeed, No-way and Nixerland having already voted down the EU, Brexit may well be swiftly followed by Frexit, Grexit, Departugal, Italeave, Czechout, Oustria, Finish, Slovakuum, Latviaticum and Byebyegium. At this rate, soon the only country still participating in the European tyranny-by-clerk will be Remainia.
Reminds on Berthold Brecht ‘Mother Courage and her Children’
‘Es genügt nicht eine Wut zu haben : man muss eine lange Wut haben!’
Marcus June 25, 2016 at 2:35 pm
Well, that didn’t take long !! LOL
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/25/brexit-remorse-uk-lawmaker-calls-for-parliament-to-ignore-eu-referendum-as-millions-call-for-second-vote.html?intcmp=hpbt1
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I saw that today too.
But, I also so this
“A sharp spike in racist incidents reported after the brexit vote”
After Thursday’s referendum on a “Brexit,” a wave of racist incidents have been reported to British police and documented in widely shared social media posts. Through the weekend, #Postrefracism has been trending, and its contents provide a disheartening view of how Britain’s vote to leave the European Union may be emboldening those who harbor virulent racist sentiments.
Police in west London were investigating what they called a “racially motivated” attack against the Polish Social and Cultural Association. Poles make up the largest foreign-born population in the United Kingdom. The organization’s building was apparently defaced with graffiti that said, “Go home.”
In Cambridgeshire, leaflets were apparently distributed with “Leave the EU/No more Polish vermin” written in both English and Polish.
[The uncomfortable question: Was the Brexit vote based on racism?]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/26/a-sharp-spike-in-racist-incidents-reported-after-the-brexit-vote/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-world%3Ahomepage%2Fcard
IMHO.. The Brits can see the upcoming financial disaster that is coming from the current MASSE migration of peoples from the Middle East and Africa.
You can’t properly assimilate hordes en masse.
For the longest while I have been wondering why my forefathers “Mutter Land,”
was taking in so many and how they could even afford that. Why does this generation of Germans have to keep on paying for the sins of the past?
Is it still called racism when it becomes the survival of the host countries?
These days “it becomes racism” when the press defines it as so. What I read into their “reporting” you have provided examples of above is nothing more or less than a crying three year old stomping their feet and making wild accusations because they didn’t get their way.
And when the german are fit to open BER
Berliner Flughafen
and Stuttgarter Kopfbahnhof
as Switzerland opened
https://www.google.at/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&q=gotthard+base+tunnel&gfe_rd=cr&ei=WnxwV7TpNKnb8AeP7pLQDw
then maybe german EU may sit on the cats table.
https://www.google.at/search?q=Berlin+Brandenburg+Flughafen+Desaster&oq=Berlin+Brandenburg+Flughafen+Desaster&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.51200j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.at/search?client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&q=Hamburg+opera+house+disaster&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5hvabjMfNAhWIlxoKHcnYCUwQBQgXKAA&biw=360&bih=511
https://youtu.be/krK7Q49o6uA
Germans cannot change what their forefathers did, they just havent learnt from it, Europe is a chess board to them, and one way or another they feel its their destiny to check mate it, i am not British, we/i live next door, [isle of man] we were never joined, ,, looking in from the outside it was easy to see the UK being asset stripped, and the working class financially ruined, it was no coincidence it was planned, it was a 2 pronged attack, one over-supply of the job market, to create desperate competition for jobs, and break the working class financiallywith a race to the bottom wages wise, at the same time they are moving mass numbers of immigrant cheap labour around their chess board, they orchestrated the mass movement of jobs/industrie to 3rd would baltic nations, to be able to compete with china on pricing, the UK would have been wrung dry had they of stayed, now hopefully the greens with their magic gas theory will shrivel up and f.o. aswell.
Be lucky.
Juncker contributed to build world economy crisis, Merkel since 2008 never did anything to restore EU from said crisis – but providing scapegoats
1. Greece
2. UK
3. … wait and see
_____________________________
my fault. correct :
Juncker contributed to build world economy crisis, Merkel since 2008 never did anything to restore EU from said crisis – but providing scapegoats
1. Greece
2. UK
3. who’s next.
Portugal – Spain and France
https://youtu.be/iTZ4IYPy_cE
Many thanks to all who have shown such strong support for freedom in this thread. Let us hope that the various parties in the UK Parliament who were defeated by the people’s vote will not try to stand in the way by opposing the necessary Bill to release us from the growing EU dictatorship, which now proposes to control the armies of all remaining member-states, not to defend the EU against external agression (for NATO already does that) but instead to prevent any other nation from following where the people of Britain have led.
There are many who would deny us our freedom, but freedom will not be denied. We shall prevail.
I keep my fingers crossed for my friends in England – and we do hope to get out of that EU as soon as possible as well as of NATO
and that’s thanks women in that world
https://youtu.be/Cv6tuzHUuuk
Properly understood, the climate process is in essence the same process as the EU process – it is a process to deny democracy and empower elites. Yet it is blogs like this, whose brave and hard-working host continues at great personal cost to provide a forum where true science can be discussed, that will eventually shame the taxpayer-funded scientific community into forswearing totalitarian politics and getting back to the job we pay it for: science.
AMEN!
AMEN
They really did away with my ‘status quo what ever you want ‘
that corrupt christian ‘what ever you want’
be ware of catholics.
https://www.google.at/search?client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&q=schwarz+schilling&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis0-Ct3MnNAhWGPxoKHaBUDgsQvwUIFygA&biw=360&bih=511&dpr=2
mercedes AA+
http://m.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-13515434.html
The contempt for democracy on the part of those who were defeated in the recent UK referendum is disturbing, and also revealing. It shows that the commitment to democracy on the part of the hard Left is negligible. The Party Line says the EU is a good thing and climate change a bad thing, and never mind the votes or the facts.
tomwys | 28 June, 2016 at 2:45 pm | Reply
Brilliant analysis and comprehensive understanding!!!
Lord Monckton’s essay should be required reading WORLDWIDE and most certainly throughout Europe and the US.
He shows a keen insight into what makes The United States unique in the world, and absent its current administration, worthy of emulation!
THANK YOU Lord Monckton!!!
Interestingly before the referendum a ‘Leave’ supporter believed that the ‘Remain’ campaign might win by about 52-48%. He thought that it would not be democratic to be defeated by such a small majority so he set up a petition to call for a second referendum with a requirement for a super majority. Of course when the vote went the opposite way and the ‘Remain’ voters used the petition mechanism (4 million and counting) he said he thought it wasn’t democratic!
“No-way and Nixerland having already voted down the EU, Brexit may well be swiftly followed by Frexit, Grexit, Departugal, Italeave, Czechout, Oustria, Finish, Slovakuum, Latviaticum and Byebyegium. At this rate, soon the only country still participating in the European tyranny-by-clerk will be Remainia”
I absolutely LOVE the Liberties his Lordship takes with Geography!
Absolutely bloody SPOT ON !
Please do not confuse Republican Senators with the people of the Republican party in America. I can assure you that a majority were very happy for Brexit. And we do understand the threat to our Constitution of shady trade agreements. Thanks to Britain for your rousing and independent vote. We are hopeful to show what we are made of in November!
Of course passing a treaty in the USA would require a supermajority of 67% of the senate, also a change to the constitution of the USA (surely comparable to the magnitude of the change implied by Brexit) would require a supermajority of two thirds of both houses of congress and a supermajority of three quarters of the state legislatures. Crafting a referendum which by just a simple majority would effect such a drastic change is clearly flawed, fortunately it is not binding and Parliament has the final say and would be foolish to make such a change when only about 37% of the electorate supported it.
A majority of the voters participating in the referendum rejected the anti-democratic EU. Their wish to leave should be respected.