Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Yet another Aussie academic attack on Democracy, Mark Diesendorf, Associate Professor, Interdisciplinary Environmental Studies, UNSW, UNSW Australia has demanded wide ranging social changes, a “wartime response” to the climate emergency, including vesting the government with extraordinary powers in order to overcome resistance from “vested interests”.
…in practice there are several big, non-technical barriers. These include politics dominated by vested interests, culture, and institutions (organisational structures, laws, and regulations).
Vested interests include the fossil fuel industry, electricity sector, aluminium smelting, concrete, steel and motor vehicles. Governments that receive taxation revenue and political donations from vested interests are reluctant to act effectively.
To overcome this barrier, we need strong and growing pressure from the climate action movement.
…
UNSW PhD candidate Laurence Delina has investigated the rapid, large, socio-economic changes made by several countries just before and during World War 2.
He found that we can learn from wartime experience in changing the labour force and finance.
However, he also pointed out the limitations of the wartime metaphor for rapid climate mitigation:
- Governments may need extraordinary emergency powers to implement rapid mitigation, but these are unlikely to be invoked unless there is support from a large majority of the electorate.
- While such support is almost guaranteed when a country is engaged in a defensive war, it seems unlikely for climate action in countries with powerful vested interests in greenhouse gas emissions.
- Vested interests and genuinely concerned people will exert pressure on governments to direct their policies and resources predominantly towards adaptation measures such as sea walls, and dangerous quick fixes such as geoengineering. While adaptation must not be neglected, mitigation, especially by transforming the energy sector, should be primary.
Unfortunately it’s much easier to make war than to address the global climate crisis rapidly and effectively. Indeed many governments of “democratic” countries, including Australia, make war without parliamentary approval.
Read more: https://theconversation.com/rapid-transition-to-clean-energy-will-take-massive-social-change-58211
The reason it is “difficult” to convince people to support extraordinary incursions of government into everyone’s lives, is nothing bad has happened. Not only has nothing bad happened, greens have a long and growing track record of predicting bad stuff which doesn’t happen.
If I thought there was a climate emergency, I would support extraordinary measures to stabilise the biosphere. But until someone presents more substantial evidence than a bunch of broken models with no predictive skill, I’ll hang on to my democratic right to vote for politicians who ignore radical greens.
..The liberal “Greenies” desperation is getting pathetic !
They aren’t Liberals. They’re Socialists, if you are being polite. They’re Communists, if you want to be accurate. And Watermelons, if you want to be rude.
Marcus calls Communists ‘liberal’ from time to time, as if liberal was synonymous to radical headlessness. It is not. A conservative can be liberal, but a narrowminded person never is.
“They aren’t Liberals. They’re Socialists, if you are being polite. They’re Communists, if you want to be accurate. And Watermelons, if you want to be rude.”
i don’t disagree with your intent. I just think the most accurate term is “collectivists” which includes all those you mention. I also think all “stateists” are leading in the direction of collectivism even if they can’t see it.
Over time, all governments tend toward tyranny.
markstoval +1. liberal = liberty and the modern “liberal” is anti personal liberty. Collectivists is an accurate term.
Actually, it’s sociological progression. Liberalism becomes socialism which in turn becomes totalitarianism.
sociopathic progression?
Use collectivist, or authoritarian, or totalitarian, if that’s what you mean, I suggest . . liberal just helps conceal and confuse it seems to me, since it can mean the exact opposite of those terms.
PS~ By all means, if collectivist/authoritarian types start calling themselves Saints, don’t fall for it ; )
A Conservative and Liberal can both be progressive , which one do you think wishes to know the results of their progressive changes before actually implementation?
Joel Snider May 20, 2016 at 12:36 pm wrote: “Actually, it’s sociological progression. Liberalism becomes socialism which in turn becomes totalitarianism.”
That’s the way I see it, too. Most of the American Democrat Liberal Left are closet socialists.
When Chris Matthews of MSNBC questioned DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Shultz, some weeks ago, about the difference between a modern Democrat and a Socialist, Debbie could not give him an answer. She hemmed and hawed for a very long time, and never did answer the question. The reason she couldn’t point out differences is because there are no dfferences, but she didn’t want to admit it in public. Socialism is still a dirty word for most Americans.
The American Democrat Party of yesterday no longer exists. Jim Webb, a former Democrat candidate for president this year, was what a moderate/conservative (Reagan) Democrat used to look like.
The modern Democrat Party were not interested in Jim Webb, because he is too moderate, which makes Jim a pretty lonely guy in his party now.
EricH: I think the most accurate and easily remembered term for them is ‘Herders’. They wait for the herd to give them instructions and accept everything from their herd as the gospel truth….
Liberal originally ment what Americans would call Libertarian. At the end of W.W.II the term Progressive was so reviled that in America, they took over the word Liberal. Thus in the USA Liberal is backward from the rest of the former British Empire.
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/i-am-a-liberal/
So I am a Claasical Liberal (Classi-liberal) but not an American Social Liberal (ASo-liberal).
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/isms-ocracies-and-ologie/
Don’t let the Progressive’s word corruption strategy mislead you. The are Central Authority advocates, and Individual Liberty advocates. Everthing else is stuff and nonsence.
TA, Joe,
“Actually, it’s sociological progression. Liberalism becomes socialism which in turn becomes totalitarianism.”
Are you guys aware that the US “founding fathers” were very heavily influenced by a philosophical “school” that was called Liberalism? That’s what our Constitutional Republic is literally based on . .
I think authoritarian collectivists is the best fit.
A globalist movement is afoot. The idea is that by mixing together all the races, nationalities, and cultures of the world, national identities will disappear, and we will be just one large human family with one world government. The plan is that Russia, China, and the USA will voluntarily turn over all of their nukes and other advanced weapons to this global governing body (let’s call it GlobalSec), and then we will all have peace and prosperity forever more, living under the laws put forth from GlobalSec. Obama and Hillary completely support this movement. This is nothing more than global communism, or socialism. This seriously scares me. The USSR is an example of what will happen. It may be good for a few years, but eventually a strongman will come to power and there will be none to oppose, as he has ALL of the weapons! This is a fact of human nature, it will not change. Humans are genetically wired to seek power, some more than others.
I do NOT want to see sovereign nations lose their national identities! That is what balances power across our blue marble and it needs to be preserved. I believe cultures and races should not be encouraged to mix (not that there is a problem with a few who wish to do so, but should not be pushed by government on large scale). The people from each country have their own unique culture, language, values, and appearance. Contrast and Italian, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Iranian, Nigerian, Mexican, American. They are all unique. I don’t believe that one is necessarily better than another, just different. What is an American like? An American is white, speaks English, and has a christian value system (whether or not he belongs to a church). As demonstrated by the long line of presidents for over 200 years (except for the current one). Nations always originate from war – always have and always will. The USA has been infiltrated by treasonous ‘citizens’ who would obliterate our national identity, turn us into a nation of mutts, with no culture or history to anchor it. Which would lead to it’s downfall. The people who’s ancestors created this great USA are not going to let that happen. Trump is currently our answer to that challenge. But this is way bigger than Trump. This is about a nation reclaiming it’s identity and it will continue beyond Trump.
average joe,
I feel compelled to quible with this statement;
“An American is white, speaks English, and has a christian value system (whether or not he belongs to a church).”
Had you said that was what a typical American is like, I could go along with it. But I don’t think the race aspect is particularly relevant. And a thing I feel is most important in the “definition” is; An American sees the government as servant, the people as master.
John Knight: Are you guys aware that the US “founding fathers” were very heavily influenced by a philosophical “school” that was called Liberalism? That’s what our Constitutional Republic is literally based on.’
My point was, that the open-mind becomes closed, and then militant, and then authoritarian. Just within the context of my lifetime, I’ve watched the Left go from the sixties with ‘I’m alright/you’re alright, and anything goes’, to ‘only WE are right, we will force our beliefs down your throat, and if you oppose us you will be punished.’
It’s the second generation that now has doctrine instead of ideals.
Leftists are not ‘liberal’ anymore. They are rigidly close-minded authoritarians. Sociological progression.
It happens to almost any group with a cause.
The “desperation” has just begun. When the weather (not corrupt temp measurements) generally starts cooling, as it appears to have already begun in the La Nina cycle, there will ever increasing moans and screams on high:
Has this parent not heard of the application of a baseball bat upside the head?
Works every time.
Baseball bat to the head is too extreme for a child this age. You need to wait until they’re teen agers before that becomes appropriate.
Do they REALLY think they can roll back the clock 75 years? Thank heaven for the “vested interests!”
Those vested interests are supplying us all with what we want and need for our modern healthy lifestyles. Take that away and we revert to anarchy.
Crony fascists would be an appropriate term. They want to use the force of government to promote there pet agenda.
Sorry ! That’s a nyet on the extra-ordinary emergency powers; no can do that.
But given that this appears to be an emergency, perhaps I can let you have some emergency extra-ordinary powers. Will that be of any use to you; like how to fall off cliffs ,or go jump in the lake ? Maybe we can set you up with those abilities.
g
We could always fund some short piers.
pathetic perhaps but not above doing great harm. vis: http://portlandtribune.com/sl/307848-185832-portland-school-board-bans-climate-change-denying-materials
Clearly Portland Schools don’t possess a full and complete understanding of Merriam-Webster’s book
and the difference between:
“Denying” Simple Definition of denying 1: saying that something is not true 2: refusing to accept or admit (something)
and
“Refuting” transitive verb : Proving wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous
Its NeoMarxism or Cultural Marxism. Environmentalism was taken over by the ex-communists and ex-peace activists. The idea to use Nature as a surrogate to attack Western sivilization goes back to at least Frankfurt school. Marxism has been merged with environmentalism and is now the new Marxism.
Tell them to pull their heads out of their rectums and stick it out the window ,what emergency??
A globalist movement is afoot. The idea is that by mixing together all the races, nationalities, and cultures of the world, national identities will disappear, and we will be just one large human family with one world government. The plan is that Russia, China, and the USA will voluntarily turn over all of their nukes and other advanced weapons to this global governing body (let’s call it GlobalSec), and then we will all have peace and prosperity forever more, living under the laws put forth from GlobalSec. Obama and Hillary completely support this movement. This is nothing more than global communism, or socialism. This seriously scares me. The USSR is an example of what will happen. It may be good for a few years, but eventually a strongman will come to power and there will be none to oppose, as he has ALL of the weapons! This is a fact of human nature, it will not change. Humans are genetically wired to seek power, some more than others.
I do NOT want to see sovereign nations lose their national identities! That is what balances power across our blue marble and it needs to be preserved. I believe cultures and races should not be encouraged to mix (not that there is a problem with a few who wish to do so, but should not be pushed by government on large scale). The people from each country have their own unique culture, language, values, and appearance. Contrast and Italian, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Iranian, Nigerian, Mexican, American. They are all unique. I don’t believe that one is necessarily better than another, just different. What is an American like? An American is white, speaks English, and has a christian value system (whether or not he belongs to a church). As demonstrated by the long line of presidents for over 200 years (except for the current one). Nations always originate from war – always have and always will. The USA has been infiltrated by treasonous ‘citizens’ who would obliterate our national identity, turn us into a nation of mutts, with no culture or history to anchor it. Which would lead to it’s downfall. The people who’s ancestors created this great USA are not going to let that happen. Trump is currently our answer to that challenge. But this is way bigger than Trump. This is about a nation reclaiming it’s identity and it will continue beyond Trump.
Eric, Where do you get this stuff? (Theconversation…. I know but…)
I barely have time to read 30% of WUWT articles.
Another socialist wants to end democracy and give all power to the government.
Why is anyone surprised?
Socialists don’t want democracy, they want people’s democracy. Because only central power can stop people from doing things I don’t like.
I don’t see any way giving the Government “extraordinary powers” could backfire. /sarc
I swear, this time it will work.
No mention of the Vested Interests that comprise us consumers of modern awesomeness?
exactly! I am definitely one of those ‘vested interests’. Where I live we ‘save’ lots of power each month because our electrical supply keeps failing. Maybe someone who knows where Mark Diesendorf lives can help the poor guy out by pulling his fuses and lobbing them over the fence.
Why are we paying any attention to PhD candidates? Especially in the climatology, atmospheric physics, environmental and sociological fields. The scientific track record of their schools, and supervisors in these disciplines, is now abysmal, and increasingly so. Much of the published and public dross in current science is the result of under-trained graduate students and their intellectually lazy, immature and ideologically bent supervisors.
That graphic… what, is that a 1985 CGI outtake from “Money For Nothing?”
Appropriate, come to think of it.
Actually, no. But it is a good thought.
That ain’t working, that’s the way you do it.
Money for nothing and your chicks for free.
Dire Straits
What a horrible use of WW2’s noble cause and its brave fighters, which was to remove tyranny’s destruction on freedom and the right to exist, not to impose it.
..Excellent point..5 stars ..
Horrible, indeed.
Many of us were born after the war. We did not know the war, but we grew up in it’s shadow. Sometimes you could see the war in the eyes of a parent or neighbor, or feel it in the furrows in their foreheads. They said they would keep us safe, never let the horrors of war touch us. We did not know, could not know, that they already had kept us safe. We were just children.
This PhD candidate is a child, and an idiot. So is his professor. They knows nothing.
TonyL:
May I someday be privileged enough to wash your feet…
+100
Agreed, but not the first offensive reference to WWII.
Calling skeptics ‘Deniers’ is a back-handed insult to the Genocide victims and their families.
These people have no shame.
+100 well said Pamela
‘vesting the government with extraordinary powers’ is the objective. Any reason will do.
Wasn’t 1984 a book on good governing principles? /sarc
This road paved with green intentions only seems to be heading one way.
The road to hell – paved with green intentions.
Just how many Venezuelas can the world support? Sheesh.
A good friend is a university professor teaching politics of environment and energy; he has nothing but horror stories about students who won’t believe anything but AGW and actively support extreme measures to “make” the public change behavior. The indoctrination is so pervasive and so ingrained that within 5 or 10 years draconian measures will be taken, and most of the younger people will be ok with that. Not sure what can be done about this except take back the schooling system…..
CAGW youth groups? Will that be next?
There’s no need for a youth group when it’s taught from kindergarten to grade 12.
Indoctrinated youth groups have already been tried… Mao’s Red Guard. And how did that work out?
“except take back the schooling system…..”
The school system needed to be taken back a long time ago. People did not pay attention, and would not listen to warnings.
“The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.” – Koch, Vorlon ambassador.
Exactly.
What would a Vorlon do?
…When these younger students become working, taxpaying citizens, most will change their view because it will then be THEIR money stolen to pay for liberal fantasies !!
You assume they have any desire to become working, taxpaying citizens.
Socialism is the freedom to not work if you don’t want to.
Sadly, socialism is not freedom to not work. It is freedom from pay, eventually.
How can that be? I have been assured by a number of socialists that socialism is freedom.
Exactly. Last night my 15 yr old daughter asked me for help with her Social Studies project regarding ACC and that 93% of Australia’s Great Barrier Reef was now dead due to human activity.
I almost fell out of my chair.
We spent the next hour discovering that the GB Reef was doing just fine and that the earths climate continually changes and that our house is built on ground that was permafrost only 10k years ago.
She said that now she is completely confused, she is expected to follow what she is taught in school but I’m messing things up.
I thought our school system was past this sort of crap, but the battle continues unabated.
This is REALLY scary: http://junkscience.com/2016/05/portland-school-board-bans-climate-change-denying-materials/
The Thought Police are HERE, folks.
The totalitarian greens must have been blinded by fear:
2016:
“In a move spearheaded by environmentalists, the Portland Public Schools board unanimously approved a resolution aimed at eliminating doubt of climate change and its causes in schools.
“It is unacceptable that we have textbooks in our schools that spread doubt about the human causes and urgency of the crisis,” said Lincoln High School student Gaby Lemieux in board testimony. “Climate education is not a niche or a specialization, it is the minimum requirement for my generation to be successful in our changing world.” ”
1933:
“On 10 May 1933, in an act of ominous significance, the students burned upwards of 25,000 volumes of “un-German” books, thereby presaging an era of uncompromising state censorship. In many university towns, nationalist students marched in torch lit parades against the “un-German” spirit. The scripted rituals of this night called for high Nazi officials, professors, rectors, and student leaders to address the participants and spectators. At the meeting places, students threw the pillaged, banned books into the bonfires with a great joyous ceremony that included live music, singing, “fire oaths,” and incantations. In Berlin, some 40,000 people gathered in the square at the State Opera to hear Joseph Goebbels deliver a fiery address: “No to decadence and moral corruption!” Goebbels enjoined the crowd. “Yes to decency and morality in family and state! I consign to the flames the writings of Heinrich Mann, Ernst Gläser, Erich Kästner.” ”
I don´t think United Nations wanted it´s climate disciples to go this far.
I bet United Nations will soon get a hard time to rein in the beast they have fostered.
Science or Fiction commented: “…I don´t think United Nations wanted it´s climate disciples to go this far.
I bet United Nations will soon get a hard time to rein in the beast they have fostered….”
I think you underestimate their vileness and belief in a means to an end. Rein in? They are just getting started training their troops. I borrowed this from another poster and I hope it comes true: “The desperation is summed up by the Chinese proverb (loosely translated) as Man can ride a tiger, but his troubles begin when he tries to dismount.”
China, India and the rest of the BRICS aren’t buying in. The north west US, eastern US and Europe may be irrelevant in the end.
Goldrider
Portland Oregon is the new Munich.
Last night I was given an English exam paper to check by a student here in Hong Kong. The comprehension questions were based on the most alarmist B/S article I’ve ever seen. Truly shocking.
Yet another twit advocating arcadian socialism.
Yet another one of Voltaire’s Bastards as John Ralston Saul would put it. One of the cadre of arrogant, Jesuit inspired apparatchiks who, intoxicated by the view from their floor on the Tower of Babel, are convinced that they know all and have the final solution to the human problem, utterly blind to the essesntial irony theat THEY ARE the human problem. They are the $1.00 a litre milk loss leaders in the supermarket of intellectual expertise that big education has rotted down to these days. The source of the cheap pasteurized, homogenized intellectual (I use the term in its loosest possible meaning ) excrement peddled by the lazy, plagiarizing MSM as their source du jour.
This little piece should be set in stone at the entrance to every university in the land.
Maybe after this PhD candidate finishes being indoctrinated, they can go get an education.
This is what hysteric-driven mitigation policy looks like:
http://media.washtimes.com.s3.amazonaws.com/media/image/2016/05/19/solar_plant_fire.jpeg
$2.2 billion dollar capital investment, I’d love to know how much this thing has cost thus far per kW*h.
Wow, melted aluminum cladding. Something got really hot. How did it happen?
This is Ivanpah Concentrated Solar Plant, the worlds largest solar plant. It has already had many problems in its very short life, from burning more natural gas energy than the plant makes, to scorching birds mid flight, and now misdirected mirrors causing major damage on one of the three towers. It’s the CAGW cultist’s vision of the future!
” burning more natural gas energy than the plant makes”
…
Do you have a citation for this claim?
There was a WUWT article on it a few months back.
http://breakingenergy.com/2014/11/19/ivanpah-solars-first-nine-months-300000-megawatt-hours-at-185mwh/
This was for the first year of production. In the second year of operation, the plant produced slightly more energy than it used from natural gas.
http://breakingenergy.com/2014/10/29/at-ivanpah-solar-power-plant-energy-production-falling-well-short-of-expectations/
In 2014, the plant produced 554,600 MW*h energy in total. The plant used 867,740,000,000 Btu in energy from natural gas, which converts to 254,309 MW*h, so the plant produced 300,291 MW*h
Over hyped……and on fire (May 2016)
http://www.pv-tech.org/news/fire-at-embattled-ivanpah-csp-plant
Note the prominence of solar CSP on publication covers of Federal reports. I think they had a heavy hand in the wrong tech and investor (Google) coercion at a time when other utility scale solar players were leading on the right path. Curious how that works…..
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/2016/05/18/berkeley-lab-study-tallies-benefits-solar-power/
@RWTurner
don’t forget the power wasted on the hotel loads. This leaching of power off of the grid, rather than accounting for it as part of the “out put power is kept well hidden.
Read the above link and then you will understand why the Heliostats must have power 24/7/365 whether they plant is generating power or not. Assuming these Heliostats draw about 10 watts an hour there is another 2,436,510 watts times 173,500 heliostats = 42,273,448,500 watts of power wasted, (and that is an extremely low estimate. I have searched the internet and can not fins the actual power draw of each heliostat.) Subtracting the 42,273 MWhr from 300,291 leaves you with 258,018 MWhr. Also missing is all of the rest of the hotel loads. I.e. Lights, motors, computers, control systems, air conditioners for the preceding, etc., etc., Easily as much if not quite a bit more than the power the heliostats use.
With 40+ years in the commercial electrical power service it is common knowledge that the “output” power is always the power as measured directly from the generator, BEFORE any house/hotel loads (comfort power) is used. Most have completely separate meters and further are at different voltages. Yet, the Wind/Solar pushers knowingly hid and obfuscate this information. Thus Ivanpah has a real “Solar” capacity of about 10%
I seem to recall the Aussies had a number of dockworker strikes in WW2 while the docks were vital to support Allied war efforts and the government could not do a thing about it. Freedom or Liberty or some such obsolete concept.
Those problems mostly went away as I recall, after Germany attacked the Soviet Union.
Not correct Eric, the strikes and sabotage by communist dock workers continued even when Australia was facing the dire threat, if not of invasion, at least isolation during the New Guinea campaign and this was apparently because the Soviet Union was neutral in the war with Japan (they had their hands full in Europe) until August 1945, the Soviet war with Japan lasted ‘three weeks and three days’.
https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2014/01-02/treachery-unions-second-world-war/
Not quite, Eric.
Communist Russia didn’t declare war on Japan until after the US dropped the first A-bomb.
Communist’s influence was unified against Germany but not against Japan.
100 million “extraordinary” deaths
Beware! Governments exercising “extraordinary powers” killed 100 million of their own citizens during the 20th century. This is detailed by Courtois, Stephane, and Mark Kramer in: The black book of communism: Crimes, terror, repression. Harvard University Press, 1999.
Lysenko applied these “extraordinary powers” to Lysenkoism in science resulting in the greatest setback for science in history!
The Disgraceful Episode Of Lysenkoism Brings Us Global Warming Theory
I think this document might eventually become a monument showing how far western science has fallen, a monument over inductivism:
Guidance Note for Lead Authors of the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report on Consistent Treatment of Uncertainties
http://ipcc-wg2.gov/SREX/images/uploads/SREX_SPM_BOX2.jpg
Pretty good list of all the basics sustaining modern life .
Guy must not be able to see past his navel .
He can’t even see that far. Agricultural efficiency depends strongly on fossil fuel-related inputs of energy and fertilizers.
When was the last time you saw an ad by a car company in opposition to “consensus” science?
They must be funneling millions to Heartland or similar organizations? No?
Then it must be that they fund popular scientists, blogs and commentators. What?
BTW, my checks from fossil fuel companies are late this month.
Karl Popper warned about this kind of thoughts:
“It can’t happen here” is always wrong: a dictatorship can happen anywhere.”
― Karl Popper, Unended Quest: An Intellectual Autobiography
UNSW PhD candidate Laurence Delina has investigated the rapid, large, socio-economic changes made by several countries just before and during World War 2.
Which countries?
Hmm just prior,,, France Maginot line. Britain “peace in our time”? American Isolationism?
Oh he was referring to the Axis -violations of arms treaty limitations – London, Washington naval treaties for example. Secret treaties to divvy up other countries and regions. Like Germany and USSR with Poland and the Baltic States.
UNSW PhD candidate Laurence Delina should have taken less “climate Catastrophy classes and more history, without any of the modern revisionism.
michael
Mike M
You’ll note that Australia has just thrown its hat into a French submarine deal. And that some have rised questions on how it will work re the change from nuc to diesel, and given some prior experience with things supplied from France – from Mirages to Renaults.
So does this mean we have post modern submarines
And does the whole western democratic WTF right now look like a re-run of France 1930 – 1940?
Herschel Smith ” A History of Aeronautical Piston Engines” in the section on the lack of power from Hispanio engines
“but it is hard to believe that purely engineering reasons can explain it. Politics and ideology led to strange things in pre-war France”
So, believers in CAGW tend to disbelieve in democracy! In order to safeguard democracy we will have to keep an eye on the alarmists and what they are up to.
The true colors of AGW are coming out. The calls to end peoples’ voting rights and liberties because they interfere with implementing Socialist ideology are increasing. Once again folks…..it’s not about temperature.
And it never was about temperature.
“Governments may need extraordinary emergency powers”
Well, if Mother Nature continues to work against the “CO2 caused global warming” delusion then the governments will need police state powers to enforce belief in cAGW. Luckily for the left, the state already has totalitarian powers.
Just to be real clear — anthropogenic CO2 will not cause any temperature rise at all. Therefore, we will need to force belief on the part of the common man. Yes, even as the ice covers the northeast USA again, we will still be hollering that CO2 is going to fry us all.
~ Mark
Well, there’s this:
Australia’s science agency is laying off 275 scientists as it shifts its focus
away from climate research and toward more commercial projects.
SYDNEY — A pre-eminent scientist in the field of rising global sea levels has been given notice of his dismissal as part of deep cuts at Australia’s national science agency that will reduce the country’s role in global climate research.
The scientist, John Church, confirmed Tuesday that he was one of 275 scientists whom the agency, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, or Csiro, said would be laid off.
…
New York Times
Mark me down as a vested interest in fossil fuels, electricity, aluminium, concrete, steel, motor vehicles and paying taxes perfessor.
Sure. And we do know for a fact, that those extraordinary emergency powers are never abused, don’t we?
And the emergency never seems to actually end, either.
We’ve always been at war with EastAsia…
This is statism and fascism. plain and simple.
It’s the Venezuelan Option for climate action.
Common and garden fascist. He must be a [pruned] academic, so he’s taking the political route, where shoddy science changes from being a liability to being an advantage.
He looks pretty senior (and secure) actually – some kind of interdisciplinary environmental committee.
What are the requirements to be an associate professor in Australia? Does he not realize that Australia could quit oxidizing all forms of carbon and make essentially no difference in Global warming?
You know some days as a reasonable Anglo bloke you think- I give up ISIS. You win. Come and do your thing and stick them in burquas rather than their tree suits, etc as it might be a lot easier on the eyes and ears-
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/elizabeth_v_elizabeth/
Do watch the video for the aliens from outer space even if you can’t handle Liz Farrelly’s unintelligible dribblings for long They walk and squawk among us, not to mention being responsible for that grey lichurchur from their inimitable IPCC.
The Aussie govt will certainly need emergency powers … to deal with lack of investment in new dispactable power stations, and to deal with the resulting riots when the power goes off just when most needed, during summer heatwaves when winds tend to be very light.
just imagine what would happen to conventional farming if “free” but intermittent food appears, and all political parties encourage ever more “free” food, that is what is happening NOW to proper power stations in the so-called developed world.
Socialists are opposed to two things. Any power center that they don’t control. Anybody else getting government money.
Round them up and ship them off to the Green Gulag camps.
Manmade climate change isn’t real, if it were real, the scientists wouldn’t have confessed making up data and putting it in the records.
There is an entire field of astronomy named infrared astronomy. If the atmosphere were actually growing warmer at night due to back radiation there would be a never ending stream of information about back radiation and it’s ever upward climb.
The fact it isn’t real, is not only proven by taking apart manmade warming – taking the compression out of the mathematics for temperature, then pretending ”green house warming” is doing it- but by looking around at all the other scientists.
Infrared astronomy is done from satellites as infrared has never been able to penetrate the earth’s atmosphere.
MarkW
..
http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/outreach/Edu/ground.html
…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Infrared_Telescope_Facility
Oh, I think it’s real, alright. Just not what it’s cracked up to be.
They are not “gulag” camps! The sign on the front clearly says “re-education”.
Work will make you free?
Portland Oregon School Board
I sometimes talk about how crazy Portland is. Here is the latest. The school board is throwing out all textbooks (including those recently purchased) that fail to promote Climate Change.. From now on all textbooks must promote Climate Change and, get this, Climate Justice.
What the hell is Climate Justice????
Eugene WR Gallun
Home schooling is looking better and better.
They will tell you later when they get the kids right on the message.
And the “bad books” are just a match-strike away from oblivion…
Anytime there is a modifier on the word justice, just replace it with the two letters “in”
Climate Justice = injustice
Social Justice = injustice
Political Justice = injustice, etc.
Anything that is not simply “Justice” is tyranny by another name.
Owen in GA — I like that. Truth revealed and simply done. — Eugene WR Gallun
The Warmunists are finaly openly admitting the true reason for their Climate Change scam!
Is Climate Emergency Powers trending on Facebook? The algorithm says jump.
In the end everybody has to come clean, otherwise there’s no way to finalize an agenda. At last they break cover, at last their agenda is made plain.
All that remains is to choose. Its happened from time to time. It’s what life is all about. As it was in the beginning so shall it ever be; its happening now – we’ve all got to choose.
The dark is rising.
A fascist’s wet dream – emergency powers.
They never mention the biggest, most-powerful vested interest; the Climate Industry. They are the ones who stand to gain from the lies about “carbon”. As usual, the Carbon Cultists accuse others of that which they themselves are guilty.
Meanwhile, satellite data says that Australia hasn’t warmed at all for 20 years.
Where is this climate emergency?
http://s19.postimg.org/gqalfdnlf/Australia_1996_now.png
Dictatorial control of society has always been what it is all about. Global Warming and “the environment” are just excuses. They are becoming more overt as they gain in confidence that they have gained control of media and government. The propaganda is almost total; no heresy is allowed.
When the global warming movement is finally left on the dust bin of history, the same suspects will be out ahead, pushing a new excuse that only massive government control over everyone can save us from.
In 1991, the “Club of Rome” published The First Global Revolution:
“In searching for a common enemy against whom we can unite, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like, would fit the bill. In their totality and their interactions these phenomena do constitute a common threat which must be confronted by everyone together. But in designating these dangers as the enemy, we fall into the trap, which we have already warned readers about, namely mistaking symptoms for causes. All these dangers are caused by human intervention in natural processes, and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy then is humanity itself.” page 75
The influence by Club of Rome and “The limits to growth” on United Nations is very evident: 2013 Economic and Social Council Integration Meeting “Achieving sustainable development: Integrating the social, economic and environmental dimensions”:
«Graham Turner’s comparison of 30 years of historical data and scenarios presented in the Limits to Growth was provided as an example to illustrate that business-as-usual will result in an economic collapse by 2030.»
http://www.un.uz/images/2012-09-17.jpg
The Logo is somewhat misleading – it should have read something like:
UN – Building a bloated idiocracy based on what seems to work fine inside our heads.
And given the success United Nations still seem to think they have had with Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change – it is no surprise that the United Nations unelected bureaucrats wants to do it again – Conclusions and recommendations:
…
• An intergovernmental committee on sustainable development should be set up to bring together all stakeholders.
…
http://www.fineart.no/i/img_img/1013308-0.jpg/w=450,h=325/Pushwagner_-_They_are_asleep.jpg
If vested interests are the real audience of who decides how what is done, perhaps we can show them different technologies that are less exploitative and damaging to our environment. There’s a job.
OK, OK already!
If a “climate emergency” EVER appears, you can have wartime authority.
Wait. Does Australia even have Climate Special Forces?
Recently a whirlwind wiped out parts of the desalination plant that was built to resolve Sydney’s predicted eternal drought.
It is a new work creation plan, Green jobs.
No legislation ever protected us poor Sydneysiders from this folly of prediction, where we were told that the dams would run dry.
The comments of this professor remind me of ‘Rage against the dying of the light’.
A total frustration that nothing is being done to solve the problems of the planet, so extreme measures are justified.
Yet in a broader context and natural progression, Australians would have to stop China and India growing, as even if we in Australia cracked back to the stone age, there would be no change in the IPCC predicted planetary temperature.
So the next logical progression is that we block supply of raw materials, like coal and natural gas to these billions of the poorest on Earth.
One can see hundreds of his student manning the barricades to stop coal mining and chaining themselves to bulldozers, with emergency powers putting in police to protect them.
Emergency powers were always there for us in war.
Is this professor suggesting we need to wage war to resolve climate change?
Against whom?
China, India?
Our fellow citizens?
Our just rule of Law?
Our own critical faculties?
Is it just me or does it seem like all the solutions being proposed seem to converge towards socialism?
It’s not just you, that’s been the intention from the start.
In case it hasn’t come up yet….
“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Lord Acton
No surer way to “absolute” than to declare and sell an imaginary emergency.
(Didn’t Adolf do something like that?)
“vested interests” include people like the good Prof who seems to lack the ability to research his field of expertise(?).
Well the aussie´s have started sacking these nutcases :
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/global-sealevel-expert-john-church-made-to-walk-the-plank-by-csiro-20160513-gov0k9.html
A dose of reality for our jackboot professors. The latest survey in Australia’s upcoming election show that climate change is a top priority for 7% of voters.
I wonder idly whether the Diesendorf brothers, Mark the environmentalist, activist and UNSW apparatchik and John the engineer are on speaking terms? I would imagine that Mark would have his own father turning in his grave – a Jewish Austrian and Australian emigre who fled the Nazis, with first hand experience of ’emergency government’. One could be forgiven for wondering whether Mark may unfortunately be showing the signs of early onset dementia.
Security measures to avoid mass deaths by terrorist activity on home soil = unjustified infringement of civil rights.
Wide-reaching government control of virtually all aspects of life to avoid a possible, maybe, who-knows slight rise in temperature = justified restrictions for the good of us all.
All of this democracy and civil rights stuff has been well and good, but it’s time to grow up and impose a proper authoritarian government based on the best and brightest — university professors, for example.
What has gone wrong at UNS? It used to be a well respected university, particularly in engineering and science.
Some horribly bad hiring has ended that.
TRM
Baxter Black (US animal Vet, cowboy poet and after dinner speaker}
“First rate management hires first rate help
Second rate management hires third rate help”
And from recent comment second rate management keeps hiring it so they still look good.
“Governments may need extraordinary emergency powers to implement rapid mitigation.”
I think we need some serious weeding in some academia and government-funded “science” and this is a pretty clear indicator. Does anyone ever actually listen or is this type of unhinged ranting considered “just rhetoric”?
But the job has been done – more reinforcing to the True Believers who will be motivated to march in the streets should their preferred, instructed, received opinion not be obeyed.
And that’s exactly why universities in Australia must not allow freedom of speech for either academics or students!
Fortunately, no one will take any notice of Mark Diesendorf, Associate Professor, Interdisciplinary Environmental Studies, UNSW, UNSW Australia as they will be too busy looking at football or preparing for the upcoming election in which a carbon tax is electoral poison. His rant is another example of Liberalism passing through socialism on the way to totalitarianism.
It is easy to turn on the (war) spigot, harder to control who gets wet.
Then there is the question of when to turn it off.
Clearly, what is needed is a Department of Climate (DOC). The DOC would have authority over all climate-related aspects (basically, meaning everything). Take a shower one minute too long, and have the DOC breathing down your neck, and more. They would need hordes and hordes of green-shirted “climate inspectors”. Part of your paycheck would be in the form of “carbon credits”, giving you somewhat freer reign. In your 300-sq.-foot (if you’re lucky) tiny home, you could turn up the heat a bit in winter (say, to a sweltering 65°). As a special bonus, when the climate inspectors came snooping around, you’d be able to say “what’s up, DOC”, without getting fined.
It would be awesomesauce.
“They would need hordes and hordes of green-shirted “climate inspectors”.”
The refusal to acknowledge the coming software/automation revolution tends to work that way. The usual short-sighted response to this concern is, “Yeah, but ‘buggy whips’, and this time it’s different because internet, so be quiet, and I have computer data to back me up.”
“Well, we can’t give them money for nothing and the chicks for free, so we’ll have to gin up something else to keep the unwashed masses busy since large-scale war just doesn’t work anymore as a distraction/agent for mass societal change”.
Meh. Vastly improved worldwide mass communications has ushered in and turbocharged the age of the busybodies and those whose personality disorders compel them to need to tell you what to do.
I glanced at the article from “The Conversation” and these lines resonated:
First there are the bald untruths such as:
“Global climate change, driven by human emissions of greenhouse gases, is already affecting the planet, with more heatwaves, droughts, wildfires and floods, and accelerating sea-level rise.”
and
“Most of the technologies and skills we need – renewable energy, energy efficiency, a new transmission line, railways, cycleways, urban design – are commercially available and affordable. In theory these could be scaled up rapidly”
Then there is the clarion call, which the author carefully ascribes to others:
“According to Stefan Rahmstorf, Head of Earth System Analysis at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, we need an emergency response.”
“Several authors, including Australian climate scientist Matthew England, point out that nations made rapid socio-economic changes during wartime and that such an approach could be relevant to rapid climate mitigation.”
These kinds of arguments always bring my mind back to George Orwell and “1984”. Below are a few quotes you may remember:
“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.”
“The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing”
“You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves.”
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute.”
“how to keep the wheels of industry turning without increasing the real wealth of the world. Goods must be produced, but they must not be distributed. And in practice the only way of achieving this was by continuous warfare.”
“War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking into the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent.”
It seems 1984 is just the new present.
Or to quote Coulter in a BBC interview when asked what if the Democrats get elected:
“It’s over,” she replied. “We’re going to be homesick for the rest of our lives because America is gone.”
From the article: “Yet another Aussie academic attack on Democracy, Mark Diesendorf, Associate Professor, Interdisciplinary Environmental Studies, UNSW, UNSW Australia has demanded wide ranging social changes, a “wartime response” to the climate emergency, including vesting the government with extraordinary powers in order to overcome resistance from “vested interests”.”
What climate emergency?
These True Believers are something else. Their CAGW delusions have them living in an extremely stressful world, and they feel like they are reduced to extreme measures to deal with the “climate emergency”.
Either that, or they are cyncial people taking advantage of the situation for their own purposes.
Either way, they are wrong, wrong, wrong. We don’t want to give deluded/selfish people like this “war powers” authority.
+97
If the populace doesn’t like your policies, what choice does it leave you.
Ya gotta just shove it down their throats, it’s for their own good after all.
Dr Mark Diesendorf is an arrogant ecofreak who has published carefully crafted papers to “prove” that Australia can run a 100% renewable generation electricity grid.
A large part of his justification is through inappropriate modelling of demand (averaged over an hour) and renewable generation capacity factors (extrapolated from existing with “improved” technologies) so his position is entirely consistent with CAGW.
And yet his papers are consistently quoted by the renewables and green lobbies for removal of our dependable fossil fuel generation with wind and solar.
You have to reach that perceived “tipping point” where “everybody knows” something due to relentless assertions amplified by an uncritical media. We are close to there now in ClimateTheatre™.
Life for lefties is a perpetual struggle. Doesn’t matter what you’re pathologically struggling against, just so long as you’re always struggling. The problem with that affliction is eventually it becomes obvious that whatever you’re struggling against is somewhat ludicrous to rational folk. Their solution to the age old problem was to find ultimate thing to struggle against. A colourless odourless gas that’s invisible to rational folk but only they can see the struggle in.
observa: You are hereby instructed to report to the Correction Booth for Re-Grooving. It won’t hurt too much and you’ll feel better afterwards. Anticipating your forthcoming compliance and Have A Nice Day (or else)!
That’s funny!
Thing is, there actually are people in the Australian Govn’t who do listen to these people, and Govn’t control like this creeps in to policy and every day life for everyone except them.
We don’t need more Govn’t in Australia, we have enough nanny state intrusion as it is. So if a future Aussie Govn’t wants to head down this path, be sure to know they won”t last two terms.
And in pouncing upon a colourless, odourless gas all around us to struggle against it opens up a huge vista of things to struggle against which is of paramount importance if you’re pathologically afflicted like lefties are-
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming2.html
With CO2 they’re in struggle heaven.
Observa wrote: “With CO2 they’re in struggle heaven.”
Yes, CO2 satifies all their “struggle” needs. I agree with you, the Left has to struggle against something always. It’s what they do.
‘Governments that receive taxation revenue and political donations from vested interests are reluctant to act effectively.’
Well, just give them a tax holiday. That will fix it.
Godwin’s law not withstanding, in 1933 didn’t a building over heat and the second most influential government official demand and get “extraordinary emergency powers?” It didn’t work out well then; and IMO it won’t work out well now–i.e., unless people like Anthony Watts, Joanne Nova, Richard Lindzen, etc. are given the “powers.”
I posted the following comment on The Conversation:
Mark Diesendorf – The basic premise of your article – that “Global climate change, driven by human emissions of greenhouse gases, is already affecting the planet” – is false. With your background in mathematics, I am disappointed that you have not understood this. Especially as, in May 2008 after a talk that you gave on sustainabkle energy, I suggested to you that it would be a good idea not to rely on the climate science to justify sustainable energy (because the climate science was highly suspect) but to deal with sustainable energy on its own merits.
My background is in mathematics too – admittedly pure maths not applied maths but the underlying rules are the same. I have studied the climate science scene in more depth since 2008 and have now written a number of articles which explain the situation in more detail and from different angles. I would very much appreciate it if you would take the time to read them, and to understand that there are many genuine reasons to doubt climate science as it stands today.
A series of 4 articles examines the basic equation underlying CO2, and relates it to past climate.
The Mathematics of Carbon Dioxide
Part 1 – https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/07/25/the-mathematics-of-carbon-dioxide-part-1/
Part 2 – https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/07/27/the-mathematics-of-carbon-dioxide-part-2/
Part 3 – https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/07/31/the-mathematics-of-carbon-dioxide-part-3/
Part 4 – https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/08/01/the-mathematics-of-carbon-dioxide-part-4/
The end result, using the climate models’ own mathematical profile, is that CO2 has clearly not been the major driver of past climate.
The next article looks into the physics behind the computer models, and shows that the methods used necessarily lead to a large proportion of climate change being attributed to factors that are poorly understood:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/09/17/how-reliable-are-the-climate-models/
(The footnotes in this article are actually pretty important)
The last article looks at the way the climate models are structured, and shows that they cannot work in their current form:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/11/08/inside-the-climate-computer-models/
I appreciate that these articles add up to a lot of reading, but in your article, you do emphasise how desperately important climate change is : “we need an emergency response”. If you would take the time to read and understand what I have written, then I am sure that you will realise that there is actually good reason to pause and reflect for a while, before committing to dramatic and expensive actions.
Many thanks.
Mike Jonas.
PS. Apologies for the long delay in posting this. I have only just come across your article. I saw it in wattsupwiththat.com
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/05/20/aussie-climate-professor-governments-may-need-extraordinary-emergency-powers/
I’ll try to post this comment there, so that you can if you wish reply to it there in order to reach a larger audience.
It doesn’t need a genius to figure out that those who call for more government power are serving those who want more power, this has always been the case.
They are the first to regret their decisions too, revolutionaries are always the first targets when the revolution runs it’s course
Yes, we have an Alinskyan problem here in Australia.
Sounds like it.
“Governments may need extraordinary emergency powers to implement rapid mitigation.”
This is how Obama plans to stay in power !
I don’t see that happening. Obama will go, not so quietly, into the night. That’s the way I’m going to go, too. 🙂
I agree completely! But in service of genuine science. Arrest all scientists and politicians serving the utterly false idea that we should be removing plant food from the atmosphere – such a self-evidently destructive idea as anything could possibly be. Charge ’em all with treason against the planet – starving the poor and wildlife, damaging human and animal health with subsonic windmill noise, torturing birds with solar concentrators, exploding bats with turbines. A good dictatorship should remove all greens – false friends of the planet – from all schools, the judiciary, universities, etc. Establish genuine science to research efficient energy production, to include nuclear fission and hopefully fusion. Wonderful plan, when you insert the true instead of the false.
(Sort of tongue in cheek – but how far they go will force how far we have to go.)
UNSW PhD candidate Laurence Delina has investigated the rapid, large, socio-economic changes made by several countries just before and during World War 2.
Like Germany, Italy, and Japan?
How convenient the only way out is for gov’ts to be granted ’emergency powers’.
cookie cutter – create dilemma, propose action, take credit…..
Yes, Governments do need extraordinary powers-
To put danderous idiots, like Mark Diesendorf, in the lunatic asylum he and other “environMENTALists” so richly deserve.
Shouldn’t you have to show that you are under attack or have suffered some kind of damage before requesting a “wartime response”? These people want the government to fight an imaginary war with real weapons aimed at their own citizens.
This is a political coup, a putsch.
If the data does not support your views, the technology does not work, the public is not on board, and no one is listening, invoke Fascist authoritarianism. That works. Of course, the green tech still won’t work , but then you can cover that up.
The conversation website reminds me of that bunch in the movie ‘Hail Caesar’, sitting around talking about the virtues of dialectic socialism, or whatever. Over-indulged self serving academic twits, which any normal person learns to ignore.
The article says :
It’s easier for small regions to reach 100% renewable electricity, provided that they trade electricity with their neighbours. The north German states of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Schleswig-Holstein are generating more than 100% net of their electricity from renewables.
____________
Those 2 states are on the shore to the north sea where there are Offshore wind parks. They should deliver energy to the industry in the southern states. But there exists no capable energy connection to the South.
So the windparks supply just the 2 north most states.
And the greens drawn conclusions with no care for Information.
These same people screeching about global warming needing total State Control were Maoists back in the 1970’s.