![wind-turbine[1]](https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/wind-turbine1.jpg?resize=340%2C272)
Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Two contradictory medical press releases have been issued within days of each other, concerning the impact of climate change on health.
According to The Australian, German Doctors have demanded for a moratorium on building wind turbines, because of concern about the dangers infrasound poses to human health.
The “parliament” of Germany’s medical profession has called on its leaders to support a halt to further wind farm developments near housing until more research has been undertaken into the possible health impacts of low-frequency noise from wind turbines.
The issue was debated at the German Medical Assembly in Frankfurt on Friday and transferred to the executive board of the German Medical Association.
Association policy adviser Adrian Alexander Jakel confirmed a motion calling for research had been forwarded to the board “for further action”.
On almost the same day, a medical climate advocacy group in Australia has demanded more action to address climate change, because of the alleged danger climate change poses to human health.
GPs and specialists need to train and prepare for the “inevitable increase” in childhood sickness and pressure on health services linked to climate change, leading epidemiologist Professor Fiona Stanley says.
A new report on child health and climate change, released by Doctors for the Environment Australia (DEA), warns that Australia’s federal and state governments must take immediate steps to curtail rising global temperatures or risk an increased burden of disease, particularly for children.
The report, No Time for Games: Children’s Health and Climate Change, presents key research findings that predict a frightening future for children and the healthcare system.
Read more: http://dea.org.au/news/article/grim-future-for-children-global-warming-report
Who to believe – a group of Australian doctors basing their concerns and call to action on climate model fantasies, or a group of German doctors concerned about the effects of wind turbine trauma, about the impact of infrasound pollution on real people who live adjacent to turbine installations?
The German doctors say nothing about climate change. We’d have wind turbines regardless. Fossil fuels are finite, and wind is free.
Free? Is that why the government pays the wind farms massive subsidies and our electricity bills have gone up 25%?
Those, and others to numerous to list, second-order effects might be too complex for Nick.
Nick must be having an off day.
“Wind is free”, is just plain goofy, even for him.
It is much worse than this. A consolidated report (2000 thru 2013) that summarizes the U.K., Germany, and the U.S. shows that the actual power output versus the planned power output of both wind and solar is 1/7th of the plan. This makes the real cost 7X that of the planned cost (2X or 4X). Further, this ratio does not change much over the 13 year history. Therefore, the real cost of solar and wind somewhere between 14X and 28X that of fossil fuels. Even this 1/7th portion of the power cannot be stored. The net result is that these countries must have fossil fuel or nuclear back-up to cover the 6/7 miss as well as covering the non-linear output of solar and wind.
We’ll have nuclear power regardless. You will not get base load power from turbines. Storage of the magnitude the future requires is a fruitless quest.
Radioactivity is free.
Wind is free. And like most things that are free, you get what you pay for. Wind is unpredictable and variable. You’ll need far more wind turbines to make up for the variability that could easily be handled by a few nice coal fired plants.
and wind is free.
So are gas, oil, coal, hydro, nuclear, solar and butterflies.
It is the harvesting, management and transmission/transport of the end use product (fuel or electricity) that costs all the money.
The only one that wind beats on the cost effectiveness metric would be the butterflies.
Nick if it’s free then why all the fuss about the RET nonsense and so why pay billions $ every year in subsidies. And please explain how any of this helps to mitigate your CAGW that the evidence can’t find?
Finite, perhaps, but coal is free too….you just have to dig it up and transport it. Same as harnessing the wind…the cost is in the applying. So should we spend money on harnessing intermittent wind that we need backup power stations for as well for the other 90% of capacity, or coal which we know will be efficient and effective, all the time?
petroleum is free too Nick….
want a shovel?
Nick’s just galloping backwards around the track today. Wants to see if anyone is paying attention.
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Yes Nick, the wind is free but the cost of extracting energy from such a low energy density, tomprally and gepgraphically variable source is absurdly expensive not even considering the fact that it has to be supported by parallel investment in back up generation capacity typically using good old stable, storable, transportable, high energy density ‘fossil’ fuels.
That sort of wasted capital is not free.
Take it and it’s no longer free. And those downwind suffer the deprivation, and that is all of us. If ever a significant amount of energy is taken from the wind, it will effect weather and climate downwind. The value of the energy taken out cannot compensate for the value of the energy within the wind, and there is a large class of the downwind damaged who may object, and lodge complaints.
The sun, the wind and the water are Earth’s natural climate regulating mechanisms. It’s neither sustainable nor prudent to rob the Earth of the wind for man’s energy needs, much more easily supplied elsewhere, anyway.
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+10.
I have been saying this for some time. The wind turbines are taking energy from the system. Some one down wind, like another farm of wind turbines are going to be worse off.
Search ‘Boedele Depression’. Strong wind from a mountain gap to its East raises dust that nourishes the Amazon, half a world away; and critically nourishes it. Imagine had there been a population of wind turbines capturing the energy in that wind gap, which happens to be one of the world’s finest spots for such a facility.
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Well, if nothing else, you could come up with a nice plot for an epic ‘Clash of the Hemispheres’ movie.
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And Paris a ‘Clash of the Continents’ plot. Rev ’em up, Ronan. Gentle scared out of your pants alarmists, start your search engines.
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“Affordable energy in ample quantities is the lifeblood of the industrial societies and a prerequisite for the economic development of the others.” — John P. Holdren, Science Adviser to President Obama. Published in Science 9 February 2001
Energy from wind is expensive and small quantities and is not for the society we live in.
So is every other form of energy. What cost money is converting it into a form that is usable.
Free? Sure its free, all you need to do is build and expensive tower and put a complicated windmill and generator on top, run the electricity through a transformer and then wire it into the grid. Don’t forget to provide some kind of reliable alternative source of electricity for those times the wind does not blow.
If we were to follow your “logic”, coal, oil and natural gas are “free” too. All you need to so is get it out of the ground and burn it,, Convert the combustion products into a mechanism to turn a generator, aka steam, and voila! Free Elllectricity.
@Nick Stokes
A few days back, a colleague of yours by the name of Russell was abetting a sexual predator. Now you are saying that it is ok to inflict maladies on untold numbers of human beings on account of the alleged availability of an energy source. He was unapologetic. I hope you are.
Please explain the connection between your observation and the medical studies linked in the post. Thank you.
Nick, The German doctors do say something about emissions. Oh the irony!
It said the health effects of infrasound (below 20 Hz) and low-frequency sound (below 100 Hz) in relation to emissions from wind turbines were “still open questions’’, as were “the effects of noise below the hearing threshold or lower frequencies with increasing exposure duration”. The assembly said the erection of more turbines close to settlements should be stopped until there was reliable data to exclude a safety hazard.
I get the feeling this infrasound scare is pseudoscience… but what the heck, if the climate alarmists can use pseudoscience to bolster their arguments we need a little of it as well.
I work as a consultant with a company that has done work for several years with turbine noise. it was difficult to measure but they developed a technique to filter the sound of the blade passing the tower from all the ambient noise. At hundreds of yards from the turbine outside of homes. It’s real.
Surely the “precautionary principle” would prevent the building of wind generators if they had not been proven to be safe and harmless?
Fossil fuel is finite, but we have enough to last for at least another 1000 years.
Wind may be free, but wind turbines are so expensive that they can’t last long enough to pay back the investment.
Nick Stokes just made a “drive-by” and he probably drank something funny.
You are likely correct. Still, the microsecond trolls we’ve been seeing are a naive admission of defeat.
Wind is indeed free, but wind energy is not.
Wind is indeed free and a wonderful way to power yachts. now if I can only convince Beneteau to give me a free 10 m Oceanis that would complete this fantasy….
Good one!
OK Mr Stokes, you try living here then.
https://youtu.be/rIn-5vnQ1PY
Stunning video! I understand that even the Germans are re-thinking some of their “green” measures. I hope they see this video and act on it before people get killed by falling windmills as the machines age and wear out.
Coal is free, somebody just has to pick it up and ignite it.
lightning is free!
Nick: You really are an ignorant troll if you think ‘wind is free’ and that ‘we’d have wind turbines regardless’. Wind turbines produce very expensive electricity based on a technology that became a historical redundancy 200 hundred years ago because it relies on an unreliable low energy density source of fuel.
Nick, surely you can’t be that ignorant. Power generated from wind is never free.
Gold and diamonds, like wind are also free, just laying around to be picked up.
In that case we can remove all subsidies on renewables – right ?
I would like to see an energy audit comparing a 17th century windmill with a modern one.
Equating for the swept area of the blades, compare the work done at the grindstone of an old windmill to that done at a grindstone of a modern flour mill and calculate back through the efficiencies of the electric motors, the substations, the transmission lines, the other substations, the inverters and the generators.
I reckon that the old windmill is more efficient.
By the way Nick, there is a good reason that we abandoned wind and water power generation for coal and steam in the 18th century. When the wind stopped blowing and the rain stopped falling, people starved.
The wind may be free but wind turbines aren’t.
Wind may be “free” but that is also true of combustible fuels. Unfortunately, it is significantly more expensive to convert the energy in wind for our purposes than it is to burn combustible fuels. As for the question of finiteness, neither are infinite. The slow transmutation of carbon-12 assures us that this fourth most abundant element in our universe, will remain available to us as a source of energy for as long as the wind blows, and far beyond our need for windmills.
Wind is of course finite. Entropy is inexcapable. Who’s working to solve that problem?
Wind isn’t free, and the climatic consequences of relying on wind power could be drastic.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028063.300-wind-and-wave-farms-could-affect-earths-energy-balance.html#.VW2vjjHF-yg
“Using a model of global circulation, Kleidon found that the amount of energy which we can expect to harness from the wind is reduced by a factor of 100 if you take into account the depletion of free energy by wind farms. It remains theoretically possible to extract up to 70 TW globally, but doing so would have serious consequences.
Although the winds will not die, sucking that much energy out of the atmosphere in Kleidon’s model changed precipitation, turbulence and the amount of solar radiation reaching the Earth’s surface. The magnitude of the changes was comparable to the changes to the climate caused by doubling atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide (Earth System Dynamics, DOI: “
Ah, you need to catch up with real time. Fossil fuel, coal, is in great abundance and is the only limited carbon fuel. Carbon.hydrogen fuels, gas and oil, are abiotic and originate from Earth’s core. It percolates up from the core constantly, which is we find these, either gas or gas and oil everywhere we drill deep enough. This is a renewing resource, even as we speak. This also explains why gas and oil wells in Texas that went “dry” many years ago are now found to be recharged with gas and oil.
If we went to Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors (LFTR), we would clearly never run out of coal, gas, or oil, and we will never run out of thorium. By the way, molten salt reactors simply cannot melt down as they are already liquid. These reactors can be made completely automatic and self-leveling. LFTR’s could be placed outside towns or large buildings, made in almost any size, even for individual houses, and render our extensive power grid completely extraneous. We could then recycle all the materials of the whole grid and never be subject to major blackouts and such events.
The oceans, the earth and sun are finite as well. So what? Being finite is meaningless by itself. The sun is finite and is predicted to explode in ~4 billion years, but way before that it’s increasing energy output will make life on earth first miserable then untenable. To save humanity, it may take a 100,000 years or more to develop interstellar flight, to be safe shouldn’t we begin today? Why not if the sun will go from sustaining all life to destroying all life with a relatively tiny increase in its energy output?
While as general concept “fossil fuels are finite” is true, all projections of the “finite-ness” of fossil fuels have been wrong, in any practical sense the statement is meaningless.
BTW wind is free, electricity is not.
“The sun is finite and is predicted to explode in ~4 billion years”
This is serious, we need a “Solar Tax” to fix this. Where is Gordon Brown when you need him?
Fossil fuels are “free” too.
“wind is free.”
Disingenuous in the extreme.
All energy sources – coal, oil, gas, nuclear, whatever – are free until you come to process them to extract the energy and transform it into a usable form.
Why do you lot never acknowledge that?
Nick,
Normally you are at least plausible. This comment was just nutty. We have coal for at least a few hundred years, and more shale gas and oil than that. Then nuclear is fundamentally unlimited with current technology. The whole “runnung out scare story” is only suited to children stories.
There is zero need for wind turbines and in a free market we would have none on the grid.
(I have been pro alternative tech since 1970 or so and studied all this in great detail. Wind is suited to off grid use with batteries, and in small units on boats.)
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/uranium-from-seawater-advances/
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/ulum-ultra-large-uranium-miner-ship/
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/whole-new-layer-of-oil-depth/
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/oil-boom-in-the-americas/
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/09/16/theres-oil-on-that-ocean-bottom/
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/clathrate-to-production/
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/there-is-no-energy-shortage/
Wind is free, oil is free, gas is free, water is free, coal is free. What’s your point? It’s all free until it’s turned into a commodity by a multi-billion dollar corporation. And just because one industry was savvy enough to call their product (industrial wind turbines) green, you fell for it hook, line and sinker.
right Except the devices and infrastructure and materials used to harness it is hardly free. (And mostly intrusive and disruptive of local wild life) count the dead birds!
I still have 1.5 trillion barrels of karogen in my back yard just waiting to be harvested, with a couple of trillion more laying in Wyoming and Utah. An asteroid will probably kill all of before the Greens will allow us to us it.
We are not running out of useable carbon anytime soon.
Good to see some research into the impact of wind farms on nearby residents. Of course the Australian statement is pretty much par for the course. We’ve only got a population of 20mill. Remind me again the effect on total global temperature if Australia ceased 100% of human caused CO2, let alone a 5 – 10% reduction. As I recall it was a decimal point followed by a couple of zeros. I do not believe there has been any quantifiable impact on Australia weather patterns and local or regional climate from any purported temperature increases, let alone personal health impacts. Personally I’d like to see all London Plane Trees removed from our roads and parks and then see if our rising Asthma rate declines. Horrid, messy tree especially with a wind.
I didn’t see one shread of evidence to supporth the claims of the DEA.
Co2 induced global warming new PR game – “Co2 induced global warming causes health problems”. Now watch tax payers hard earned taxed $ going to Co2 induced global warming causes health problems” type of “research papers”.
Agreed. And….
“GPs and specialists need to train and prepare for the “inevitable increase” in childhood sickness and pressure on health services linked to climate change, leading epidemiologist Professor Fiona Stanley says.
A new report on child health and climate change, released by Doctors for the Environment Australia (DEA), warns that Australia’s federal and state governments must take immediate steps to curtail rising global temperatures or risk an increased burden of disease, particularly for children.”
That, then, must already be obvious – children must be very unwell during summer warmth and much healthier during the cold months.
Yes, and people lived longer during the little ice age too.
As one moves away from the poles, where people are inevitably the healthiest, they inevitably get sicker and sicker, especially kids.
And I am sure she can show us the stats demonstrating how much more disease there has been each year than the year before, due to all the warming she and her ilk are constantly bleating and moaning about.
The US EPA regulation of CO2 is based on an “Endangerment Finding” that CO2 is harmful to humans.
http://epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment/
I’m constantly trawling what I call the evil blog – google news Germany frontpage – and not a peep of this. German media doing what it does best, not reporting on anything that goes against their red-green utopia.
Yes, this is the whole trick in a nutshell.
The Germans are basing their concerns on evidence in need further study. The Australians are basing theirs on
an unproven theorya hypothesisbeliefs.VicV says:
“The Germans are basing their concerns on evidence in need further study. The Australians are basing theirs on beliefs.”
Nonsense. Steve Cooper an acoustic engineer was one of the first in Australia and elsewhere to point out the presence of infrasound and its possible health effects. The reason the establishment and others dismissed this was because the prevailing standard measurement devices cut off their testing frequencies well above those required for infrasound. So lets not have any more that it was all based on beliefs.
http://aefweb.info/data/Are%20wind%20farms%20too%20close%20to%20communities.pdf
Did you actually read what was written? The Australian doctors are not saying anything about infrasound but generic health effects based on a belief in the results of computer games.
David Chappell (3:39 am) ▬ Yes, exactly.
Chappel and VicC. None so blind as those that will not see. You really need to talk with the individuals who have been affected. I bet you have not.
I seem to recall that the US EPA recently released a policy paper in the interests of better “climate Communications”. Seems that policy paper explicitly called for the linkage between “Climate Change” and asthma specifically, and chrildren’s health more generally. This looks like a coordinated effort roll out this policy globally.
Yup, coded through the word ‘Pollution’ which starts with ‘P’ and it rhymes with ‘C’ and it stands for Carbon. Same ol’ method, though, an appeal to fear and guilt, and as usual, based not on fact or science. Par for the progressive climate science and policy course.
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The fraudsters realized that their Polar Bear strategy wasn’t working, so they switched to health and especially affecting the Chillllldren (more direct emotional content to sway the imbeciles).
What’s tragic, and for the deliberation bordering into evil, is that cheap energy improves the lives of all children, the poor and the better off alike.
This campaign is backwards. The madness, it runs deep. That old dibbuk fibber, he keeps on rollin’, along.
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Sure hope nobody is paying you to do any kind of science or engineering, Nick Stokes.
Wind may be “free” but wind turbine blades and gearboxes aren’t. Is that what you mean by renewable energy? You get to renew the blades, turbines and supports regularly?
By your reasoning fossil fuels are free. You just dig them out of the ground.
Can I pick “none of the above”?
Doctors for the Environment appear to believe that atmospheric carbon dioxide does not cross political boundaries.
Bingo!
I just followed the given link to the DEA article to see if they mentioned just what they are so concerned about.
Well, look at that, number one on the list is “children’s asthma”. Don’t you just hate it when that happens?
But notice the last item on the list, electrocution.
Everybody, add this one to the WarmList. “Climate change causes an increase in children’s electrocution”.
Yeah, you beat me to it.
Aside from the silliness of electrocution, note the second last entry as well, which is hypothermia. So, global warming is going to cause…cold?
I like the next to last one…hypothermia. Global warming is already causing a rash of deaths from freezing.
but it’s magic….
Global warming caused the drought…and the increase in CO2 caused global warming to make it rain again…all without changing the temperature….or something like that
http://news.yahoo.com/climate-change-boosts-rain-africas-sahel-region-study-160140969.html
Barrie Trower has been trying to bring peoples attention to the dangers of microwaves (not the kitchen app) for some time and nothing has been done , so why does anyone think that the powers to be will listen ? This vid is a must watch . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z99_SzoXZdY
That’s what tin foil hats are for.
Alarmism about things like microwaves or RF from cellphones or magnetic flux from power lines begets just one response:
Where are the bodies?
I’ve expected for a long time that the low frequency vibrations from windmills would ultimately help sink them. It’s not just humans; all the biome is affected, detrimentally. Probably, even the plants, and I don’t think it would be hard to show it.
Ask the rabbits. They thump pretty regularly about it, and the coyotes?
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They put some massive wind generators in Souris, P.E.I. and the locals were all exited about getting in on the green bandwagon… until milk production in their cows became erratic, farm animals stopped reproducing at the expected rate, and the locals started developing a variety of ailments including depression.
This was with a group that was totally receptive to the state-of-the-art generators and doing their part for renewables.
Since that time, they are not so receptive or excited about having these machines grinding away at their quality of life or that of their livestock.
But but … what do Doctors Against the Environment Australia have to say about this? What you say? There is no Doctors Against the Environment Australia? Next thing your going to tell me is there isn’t a group called Union of Unconcerned Scientists.
If there was a Union of Unconcerned Scientists, would anyone care enough to join it?
LOL Max Photon is rubbing off on you.
…”the dangers infrasound poses to human health.”
Makes a musician think about the beat frequencies and harmonics that develop below the threshold of hearing when many wind turbines, each with unique internal resistances and drag factors are exposed to varying winds. Thinking about how out of tune wind chimes grate your nerves… only this is at ~2-20Hz, if I understand correctly, very low frequency.
Yes, this is subwoofer (20-200 Hz), and so-called sub-base (<60 Hz) territory, down to the generally accepted limit of human hearing around 20 Hz, and even lower.
Rap, Hip Hop, Dubstep and other popular music genres feature such heavy bass and sub-base lines. To each his own, but to me it's just loud, and very unpleasant noise, which I avoid when possible. Because these low frequency vibrations travel readily through solid objects, I consider those creating these low frequency vibrations to be assaulting me with their sound.
Perhaps you've experienced the so-called boom cars, or subwoofer assault vehicles with a big honking subwoofer mounted in the trunk, and capable of making the ground shake, and commonly blasting ugly music audible for blocks around, and disturbing the peace and quiet everywhere they go.
http://www.chronicleonline.com/content/subwoofer-assault
At least these sub-base morons are usually just passing through. It's more difficult to imagine the fate of people whose space has been invaded by a row of the monstrous thumping whirligigs, which don't move on. but just stick around spinning haphazardly, gumming up the grid, making everything more expensive in the process, ruining views, chopping birds, and making the very earth tremble.
How low can they go? The jury's still out on that one.
Yes, and how does LF affect wildlife? Is it a constant indicator of danger (like a rumble of an earthquake) to animals, or something that they can become accustomed to? You would think that true conservation-minded naturalists would be very opposed to this method of generating power because of it’s potential collateral damage… or have they thought that far?
Think of the plants’ grandchildren.
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See upstream: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/06/01/duelling-doctors-contradictory-climate-reports-from-medics/#comment-1951149
FrankKarrvv June 1, 2015 at 8:40 pm
[…]Steve Cooper an acoustic engineer was one of the first in Australia and elsewhere to point out the presence of infrasound and its possible health effects. The reason the establishment and others dismissed this was because the prevailing standard measurement devices cut off their testing frequencies well above those required for infrasound.[…]
http://aefweb.info/data/Are%20wind%20farms%20too%20close%20to%20commun
I’m reminiscing now about when I worked in a power plant (~1980) and bringing a 50 megawatt steam turbine online; the entire plant vibrates as the turbine approaches 3600 RPM, the speed that the other operating units are running. The beat frequency slows until synchronization is complete. If any of the turbines, once online and under load experience a disturbance in steam flow, the beat frequency starts and can very quickly sound like everything is going to fly apart. We also once had a generator motorize its turbine coming off-line (OCB failure) and nearly burned the paint off of the (hydrogen cooled) generator and exciter set. the vibration was enough that we had trouble focusing on the turbine board instruments and the charts all showed smeared lines until we got the boiler back online.
Of course the scale of wind generation is different, it would take around 2000 acres of wind turbines to generate 50 MW. http://www.aweo.org/windarea.html That gives many more chances (on a smaller scale) of beat frequencies due to variations in performance and wind supply. It’s also not safe to be near them in case of mechanical failure. Did I mention that they completely ruin a natural vista and destroy raptor birds and migrating waterfowl, sometimes without actual physical contact?
“We also once had a generator motorize its turbine coming off-line (OCB failure) and nearly burned the paint off of the (hydrogen cooled) generator and exciter set.”
Was that one of the sets at Aberthaw ???
meanwhile the earth is cooling ? all the power from wind farms will have to be used for heating
Tango, meanwhile the wind farms will be introducing chaos into the grid and costing energy provider’s profits by requiring intense monitoring of the random loading of the grid and compensation by Gas, oil and pulverised coal units to balance the grid loading.
Oops, should have put monitoring the random input to the grid.
Maybe the earth is cooling because of all those giant fans 😉
Increased chance of drowning and electrocution due to climate change!! I think we should have climate change disaster training in schools, clearly when the sea rises a lot of people who can’t swim will be effected.
Folks who like Will scribe (Rhyme after Rhyme) might enjoy this from aweo.org:
I expect National Windmill Days eventually, when the populace decorates the standing relics with flowers, and releases birds.
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“…a frightening future for children and the healthcare system.”
Yes, that’s what we should expect from a return to draconian existence!
Having progressed through the industrial revolution, humanity now awaits the propulsion revolution…
Banana benders (Queenslanders) are doomed!
I believe the French did some research on low frequency sound.
Way back in the 1960’s.They wanted to use it as a weapon.
It was first notice when there were people complaining about head aches, from
the beat frequency from diesel generator’s , first noted by the medical profession.
Germans have history with ‘sound weapons’ so should have a head start with this research…
The MythBusters did an episode on the “brown note”.
Astounding!!! I never realised the risk that I was taking when I moved from Sydney to Hervey Bay in Queensland where the climate is about 5c warmer (at a guess). Gee, I have just realised that I’ve just acclimatised myself for even the extremes of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming of 4c, assuming I live until I’m 150 years old.
I just hope my Solar Panels last that long, might make the investment worthwhile after all.
Here is an example of what happens in the real world as opposed to climate model virtual reality or Hollywood movies. This is actual data from California for 1st May 2015.
http://content.caiso.com/green/renewrpt/20150501_DailyRenewablesWatch.pdf
On this day there is very little wind. Wind my be free, but it only produces power when it blows. If you want to see how volatile wind production is, download the entire data time series. You will see just how volatile and unreliable alternative intermittent energy is. And ,to top it off, the cost to the consumer, even though some idiot said that wind was free, is sky high.
While I’m on my rant, I lived in Montreal for a year – the low temperature was below -40 in the winter and as high as 36C (98F) in the summer. I was also in Tucson Arizona when the temperature was 115F.. I survived with no ill effects as did everyone else who did not die from old age or natural causes.
Temperature increases of 0.01C per year,, 0.1C per decade or 1.1C per century are almost too small to be measured. Claims that they will produce all these hyperbolic catastrophic effects are not grounded in reality.
The basic proposition seems to be that any change produces adverse consequences, irrespective of whether you are attached to a warmist or denial agenda. A series of one sided arguments making it impossible to strike a balanced view.
Whether the noise from wind farms is a greater or lesser threat than increased CO2 emissions is unclear.
What may be of rather more use would be some consideration of what might represent a stable optimum global climate – not a fantasy climate but globally consistent with physical processes. The assumption that the status quo represents some sort of optimum from which all departures are seen as negative impacts is fundamentally flawed.
You have your balance sheet all wrong. There is no evidence of any threat from increased CO2, but plenty of evidence of benefit in the form of increased plant growth. Wind farms don’t provide any benefit, since there are other, far more useful, and way less expensive ways of generating electricity, and they have a number of environmental, and very possibly human health-related drawbacks.
windmills are amazing medical catastrophe machines. Here are just some of the medical conditions they cause
1.Accelerated aging “My wife and I have aged over five years in the past two years” Source
2.Aggression in children Source
3.”Air quality damage”: “… the proposed wind farm would ruin the pristine beauty of the area, damage air quality and increase noise levels.” Source
4.Allergies Source
5.Anaemia Source
6.Anger: Source
7.Angina Pectoris Source
8.Anxiety Source
9.Atherosclerosis Source
10.Asbergers syndrome worsens Source
11.Asthma, exacerbation of Source
12.Arthritis exacerbated Source
13.Autism worsens Source
14.”Aversive learning” Source
15.Balance disturbance (falling off horses): “She has been exposed to operating turbines there for a couple of years, she now can’t even train her horses because her balance is so bad and she just falls off.” Source
16.Bats lungs, exploding Source
17.Bleeding ears Source
18.Blood loss Source
19.Blurred vision Source
20.Bowel cancer Source
21.Bowels,”loss of” Source
22.Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor (decreased) Source
23.”Brain pathology” Source
24.Brain tumours Source
25.Breast pain: Source
26.Bruxism (teeth grinding) Source
27.Cancer Source
28.Cardiovascular disease Source
29.Cardiac arrhythmias Source
30.Cardiac valve surgery, risk of “with all the risks entailed. The alternative is early death from cardiac failure.” Source
31.Cataracts Source
32.Chemtrails (“We are being attacked from the sky with Chemtrails and from the ground with Wind Turbines.” Source
33.Cattle, spontaneous abortions (caused by “stray or tingle voltage”) Source
34.Cattle: reduced calving percentages Source
35.Cattle: decreased weight gain Source
36.Cats producing small, unhealthy litters or dying (caused by “stray or tingle voltage”) Source
37.Chest pain Source
38.Chest pain “like needles” Source
39.Chest, heaviness in Source
40.Chickens hatching with crossed beaks Source
41.Chickens: stop laying eggs Source
42.Chickens: eggs “most had NO yolk and the shells were like jelly”
Source 1
Source 2
Editor: Somebody has forgotten to warn this Tasmanian poultry farmer about this problem – he has a windturbine on his land!! Source 3
43.Childhood behavioural problems Source
44.Children’s “cardiovascular systems” affected Source
45.Cold sores (herpes) Source
46.Colon cancer Source
47.Concentration, difficulties maintaining Source
48.Confusion Source
49.Cows (dairy) shocked through milking machines (because of “stray or tingle voltage”) Source
50.”cows are dying” going down, pretty much lifeless … 19 died or had to be put down, I lost 30 calves so far.” Source
51.Crickets disappear Source
52.Crying Source
53.Dental infections: Source
54.Depression Source
55.Deaths, yes, many deaths “These extensive studies report numerous serious illnesses and, yes, many deaths, mainly from unusual cancers. Source
56.Diabetes Source
57.Diabetes, blood glucose increases Source
58.Diabetes type 1 Source
59.Diarrhoea Source
60.Disrupted relationships Source
61.Dizziness Source
62.Dogs: ignoring owners, climbing between couch pillows, wall-staring “When they did venture outside, they wouldn’t listen when you called; they just kept wandering on and on. The other weird thing we noticed is that one of his dogs would try to squeeze itself between the lounge cushions to sleep, and the other dog would climb under the bed in the corner. Or they would sit for hours, staring at the wall.” Source
63.Dogs: loss of muscle tone, paws over ears, gnawing on pebbles then death. “Also our pet dog went from a vibrant healthy dog to dying in a short amount of time she started losing muscle tone lying in front of heater with paws over ears and gnawing on pebbles” Source
64.Dogs refusing to work: “Recently, Hamilton Vetcare has had to examine dogs, normally active and keen to work, that have become sullen and reluctant to leave their kennel after nearby windfarms became active. Farmers report working dogs once highly motivated and responsive, becoming disinterested and refusing to work, especially when winds are coming from the direction of the windfarm.” Source
65.Dreams, violent and disturbing Source
66.Drinking problems (alcohol) Source
67.Dry retching Source
68.Earthworms leave the soil near wind turbines “seagulls no longer follow the plough in areas near wind turbines. It has been suggested that the seagulls have learned that the worms have all been driven away and that in that area the farmer’s plough will not bring breakfast to the surface. They must go elsewhere for their food.” Suggestion is this effect might be as wide as 18km radius from a turbine Source
69.Ear pain Source
70.Ears, buzzing in Source
71.Ears, popping Source
72.Epilepsy (developing late in life) Source
73.Exacerbations of chronic disease (e.g. fibromyalgia, scleroderma, diabetes, hyperthyroidism) Source
74.Excess collagen Source
75.Exhaustion Source
76.Eye pain Source
77.Eyes, burst blood vessels Source
78.Eyes, sunken Source
79.Eyes, “like you have sand in them” Source
80.Eye discharge, eye irritability Source
81.Fatigue, extreme Source
82.Falls and equilibrium problems Source
83.Feet, sores “that would not heal until you moved out of your home” Source
84.Fever Source
85.Fibromyalgia, exacerbation of Source
86.Gastrointestinal upsets & indigestion Source
87.Glasses, need to change prescription after not having needed change for 2 years Source
88.Goats, unexplained mass deaths “In New Zealand, 400 goats dropped dead.” Source
89.Hair, loss of and turning grey Source
90.Headache Source
91.Hearing loss Source
92.Heart attacks (including Tako Tsubo episodes) Source
93.Heartbeat, fluttering Source
94.Hemorrhaging around heart (death) in cattle, caused by “stray voltage” Source
95.Hippocampus (decreased size of) Source
96.”Hips vibrating (fairly frequently)” Transcript of talk by Sarah Laurie “No Sunbury Windfarm” 23 Nov 2010
97.Horses “exhibiting behavior and handling issues” (because of “stray or tingling voltage”) Source
98.Horses develop “boxy” or club feet Source (at 1hr 15m45s)
99.Heart palpitrations (sic) Source
100.”Heightened emotions” Source
101.Hyperacusis Source
102.Hypersensitivity to noise Source
103.Hypertension – acute crises; new onset Source
104.Hyperthryoidism Source
105.Illusory movement Source
106.Immune deficiency diseases, major increase in: Source
107.Inability to conceive Source
108.Inflammatory bowel disease: Source
109.Internal pulsation or quivering Source
110.Irritability and “general grumpiness” Transcript of talk by Sarah Laurie “No Sunbury Windfarm” 23 Nov 2010
111.Itching Source
112.Joint and muscle pain Source
113.Kidney damage Source
114.Laboured breathing and a pounding chest Source
115.Learning ability, memory, language development in children Source
116.Leukaemia (paediatric): Source
117.Lighting, sensitivity to high-frequency lighting at local stores Source
118.Loss of energy Source
119.Lung cancer Source
120.Lung ciliary factor disturbance Source
121.Lupus, exacerbation of Source
122.Lymphoma (paediatric) Source
123.Lymph nodes (problems with) Source
124.Malformations in chickens, cattle – no eyeballs or tails, cows holding pregnancy only 1 to 2 weeks and then aborting, blood from nostrils, black and white hair coats turning brown, mastitis, kidney and liver failure Source
125.Memory loss (irreversible) Source
126.Memory loss (short term) Source
127.Meniere’s disease Source
128.Mental arithmetic, specific problems with (observed in adults as well) Source
129.Migraine headache Source
130.Motion sickness. Transcript of talk by Sarah Laurie “No Sunbury Windfarm” 23 Nov 2010
131.Mouth ulcers Source
132.Multiple menstrual periods (4-5) per month Source
133.Muscle tone (loss of) Source
134.Muscle twitches Source
135.Multiple sclerosis Source
136.Motion sickness Source
137.Nausea Source
138.Nerve pain & tingling Source
139.Nerve problems Source
140.Nerves, twitching (between upper lip and nose) Source
141.Night terrors “2?5 times per night in young children” Source
142.Nosebleeds Source
143.Nose ulcers (won’t heal) Source
144.”Nonconvulsive mental defects” Source
145.Non-Hodgkins lymphoma Source
146.Oppositional cranky behavior “a completely different kid for a few months” source
147.Pain “pain in and around the eyes, pain on top of the head, pain in the back of the head, behind the ears and early this year, we started to get throbbing pain at the back of the head” Source
148.Palpitations Source
149.Panic, need to flee Source
150.Paralysis Source
151.Peacocks: relationship problems: “my peahen refused to remain with the peacock.” Source
152.Perforated eardrum Source
153.Pericardial thickening Source
154.Personality change: Source
155.Pets: losing hair (but not when away from the home) Source
156.Pets, sore ears (but not when away from the home) Source
157.Piglets: higher mortality rates (because of “stray or tingle voltage”) Source
158.Poor appetite Source
159.Poor concentration and memory Source
160.Poor wound healing Source
161.Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, worsening of (“I witnessed his decline, with his worsening irritability, anger, drinking, and severe depression, and he again became difficult to live with.” Source
162.Prayer, problems with in monks Source
163.”Pseudo-mania” Source
164.Psychological stress (at not having symptoms attributed to wind turbines acknowledged) Source
165.Rage attacks Source
166.Reading difficulties Source
167.scleroderma, exacerbations of Source
168.Scratching (frantic) “scratched at his ears until they bled” Source
169.Self-confidence, loss of Source
170.Sheep: “…very sensitive to noise and to disturbance. This will impact their ability to go where they’re used to going” Source
171.Sheep, wool quality affected Source
172.Sheep: birth defects Source
173.Sheep (and cows) agitated “will leave their offspring in fits of panic” Source
174.Sheep (lambs) – “perforated ulcers of stomach and intestines” Source
175.Sick Building Syndrome Source
176.Sinus tightening (“experienced a tightening of my sinus and dull thud in my head”) Charlie Arnott Source
177.Sinusitis, chronic Source
178.Skin cancer (“basal cell cancer”) (“The cables were buried near us. Out house was a living microwave oven from dirty electricity… I have been diagnosed with Basal Cell Cancer from the very areas that started bleeding when we were on (sic) our toxic house.” [Source: leaked email, Ontraio wind farm opponents 12 June 2012]
179.Skin, “sensation of skin crawling or being bitten by bugs” Source
180.Skull, electromagnetic spasms: Source
181.Sleep, babies wake at night [Ed. All who have had children will recognise this as a very rare condition] “Baby at 9 months is getting up, up to four times a night” Source
182.Sleep disturbance (waking up in the middle of the night in a panic state) “It’s like a fleet of planes continually over my house,” Source
183.Sleeping alone (fear of in children) Source
184.Speech problems Source
185.Speech, disrupted development Source
186.Staring blankly Source
187.Stomach “issues” Source
188.Stomach ulcers Source
189.Stomach acid (“battery”) “She says her vision is blurred, she is losing sleep and feels as if her stomach has battery acid in it.” Source
190.Stress & irritability Source
191.Stroke Source
192.Stroke, being “taken to the brink of” Source
193.Suicidal ideation Source
194.Suicide, major increase in: Source
195.Sweating at night Source
196.Symptoms, indescribable (“some indescribable symptoms”) Source
197.Tachycardia Source
198.Throat infections Source
199.Thyroid metabolism, disorders of Source
200.Tinnitus Source
201.Toilet frequency (nights) greatly increased; Sarah Laurie: “just about everybody … every five or ten minutes needing to go to the toilet.” (Ed: Let’s assume people went to bed at 11pm and woke at 7am, that’s 8 hours: toilet frequency = 6 to 12 times an hour — 48 to 96 times a night!!!) Source
202.Tranquilizer use, large: “15 Valium tablets a day” (Ed: recommended Valium dose is 2-10mg 4 times daily – so this person is taking nearly 4x the recommended dose. Benzodiazepine dependence is common see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_dependence. Source
203.Transient ischemic attacks Source
204.Tree-roosting bats: Late?Summer Mating Readiness and Early Sexual Maturation (in those found dead near wind turbines) Source
205.Triglycerides, elevated Source
206.Unsteadiness Source
207.Uterine blood haemorrhaging Source
208.Vertigo Source
209.Vibrations in “body systems and cavities” Source 1 and Source 2
210.”Vibroacoustic disease” Source
211.Violent crime, major increase in: Source
212.Visceral Vibratory Vestibular Distrubance (sic) (VWD) (“rapid heartbeat, nausea, internal quivering or pulsation, and more.” Source
213.Visual blurring Source
214.Vomiting up blood Source
215.Waking up suddenly “in a panicked anxious frightened state, night after night, and often a number of times a night” (children) . Source
216.Water contamination (groundwater) Source
217.Watery eyes Source
218.Weight gain Source
219.Weight loss Source
220.Whale migration affected Source
221.”Wind Turbine Syndrome” Source
222.Yawning Source
http://ramblingsdc.net/windsymptoms.html
Sergei
In terms of catastrophigenesis, windmills may be impressive but can’t be compared with global warming itself, a hugely more fecund source of every imaginable disaster.
The latest catastrophe, perhaps direst of all, is that global warming has caused global warming to stop.
Heh, your sparse list is probably the tip of the iceberg. It doesn’t even explore the Plant Kingdom, and all its agonies.
=================
When the wind don’t blow,
The bulbs don’t glow.
Fiona Stanley is not the only Aussie medico to blather about stuff in her field of ignorance. Aussie Medical Association president Brian “Howler” Owler weighed in with an alarmist rant at the end of April that included this loopy baloney:
“…doctors were already seeing the effects of climate change.
The heatwaves that we’ve experienced, particularly in some of the more southern climates such as Melbourne … we have already seen deaths occurring in our public hospitals from people, particularly those who are vulnerable in our community.
[That’s] the elderly, the young, those that are sick, those that don’t speak English as their first language.”
those that don’t speak English as their first language.
Those Chinese, Spanish and Arabic guys better get to learning English or the magic CO2 gas will get them. By the way, do I have to learn Aussie English, British English, Irish English, Southern English, Texas English and all the other dialects too?
“Who to believe – a group of Australian doctors basing their concerns and call to action on climate model fantasies, or a group of German doctors concerned about the effects of wind turbine trauma, about the impact of infrasound pollution on real people who live adjacent to turbine installations?”
Maybe take a look at the numbers of millions who perished during the little ice age compared to the medievil warm persiod. ….knock knock…anybody home?
The Australian doctors received their “greenie” orders, but the German ones apparently didn’t. Guess that makes them “Doctors without Orders”.
Onshore wind farms seem to be harmful for humans (and not only….), while the offshore wind parks create different kind of trouble, including the effect of stirring and warming the water, thus influencing the climate, as shown here: http://www.warchangesclimate.com/images/short/k-.pdf. Those wind farms may seem to be green energy, but the costs (not only financial) seem to be too big.
Like calling out all condensation towers as examples of carbon pollution, don’t you think? Rather poor form.
Sure, many HATE green subsides, but seriously … vote.
“Today Schumann resonances are recorded at many separate research stations around the world. The sensors used to measure Schumann resonances typically consist of two horizontal magnetic inductive coils for measuring the north-south and east-west components of the magnetic field, and a vertical electric dipole antenna for measuring the vertical component of the electric field. A typical passband of the instruments is 3–100 Hz. The Schumann resonance electric field amplitude (~300 microvolts per meter) is much smaller than the static fair-weather electric field (~150 V/m) in the atmosphere. Similarly, the amplitude of the Schumann resonance magnetic field (~1 picotesla) is many orders of magnitude smaller than the Earth’s magnetic field (~30–50 microteslas).[21] Specialized receivers and antennas are needed to detect and record Schumann resonances. The electric component is commonly measured with a ball antenna, suggested by Ogawa et al., in 1966,[22] connected to a high-impedance amplifier. The magnetic induction coils typically consist of tens- to hundreds-of-thousands of turns of wire wound around a core of very high magnetic permeability.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances
Earth’s frequency similar to DNA frequency. http://www.researchgate.net/post/Earth_frequency_similar_to_DNA_frequency
WHO (world health organisation) Like many governing bodies are as corrupt as FIFA .
Chronic illness is the best economic road for the medical industry to take.
“A group of scientists and doctors in Freiburger, Germany, presented evidence at a conference in 2002 of “a dramatic rise in severe and chronic diseases among our patients” exposed to RF/MW. These included extreme fluctuations in blood pressure, heart attacks and strokes in increasingly younger people, degenerative brain diseases such as Alzheimer’s and epilepsy, leukaemia and brain tumours. They also found a rise in headaches, sleeplessness, tinnitus and other ailments that were able to be correlated with the onset of exposure to communications microwaves.” http://www.ecolibria.com.au/Resources/electromagnetic-radiation-emr-and-potential-adverse-health-affects
http://www.mastsanity.org/health-52/research/213-the-cell-phone-and-the-cell-the-role-of-calcium.html
Oh gawd… I can’t believe the space wasted here in regards to to Nick stating that that wind is free…….
I would say that all buried energy deposits are owned by someone/governments/bankers/investors, no one here can just wander into these places and grab these fuels for their immediate use, let alone without paying for them.
As far I know anybody can throw up a small wind turbine or solar panel and no one charges them for the energy that they harvest, actually the only time that this energy costs anything is when somebody buy’s it off them !!!
Nick’s statement that the wind is free was accurate, all you other mugs have tried to twist and distort that statement into something else….. why ? maybe because you all don’t own your own wind generator 🙂
Karen
Yes, the wind is free. Until trapped by the scenery-ugly destruction of thousands of miles of wind turbines. It’s the trapping that is expensive. And the distribution even more wasteful of time, resources, and materials. Torn from the earth solely so you can feel good about yourself – at taxpayer expense.
So why are no wind turbines anywhere economically self-sufficient without OUR (taxpayer) forced money being thrown into it for the benefit of the Big Government’s self-selected cronies and political supporters?
“So why are no wind turbines anywhere economically self-sufficient ” </b
Wind has been harnessed economically for a long time.
..
Good for pumping water
..
http://www.windmills.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/windmill_and_wood_tank.jpg
And, in every case, immediately replaced by electric power as soon as it became available.
If no electric power? Yeppers – The open plains were so desperate for ANY power that their windmills drove belt-driven water pumps, bellows, milling machines, grinders, and sharpeners. And were replaced as soon as cables came nearby.
Rather, modestly good for ONLY pumping water .. from very shallow (50 -150 foot) water wells that could randomly and irregularly drop variable amounts of water into open cattle tanks. Beyond that? Nope.
RACook is correct. Oxen and horses were used to plow fields, too — until something much better came along.
Same with windmills.
I can see solar eventually becoming self-sufficient, as technology improves. But windmills? No. They will never be as good as fossil-fuel powered electricity.
Good luck replacing 10% of the power in Texas
..
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=20051
Robert,
I don’t think ^this guy^ has the capacity to understand your simple and straightforward argument.
Dbstealy
…
There never were any subsidies from the government to install water pumping wind turbines.
…
So, in effect the most cost effective method of pumping water where they were installed was…..wind power.
…
Isn’t the “free market” wonderful?
j jackson,
You really don’t understand what he was telling you?
Amazing.
Dbstealey
..
You can still purchase a wind turbine today for pumping water
..
http://www.ironmanwindmill.com/
No government subsidy required.
JDJ:
You still don’t understand. Maybe you can’t understand.
Some fools build ponds.
========
Watering cattle, summer and winter, is a serious, often heart-breaking, business. My heart bleeds for Jackson’s pitiable understandings.
And staves? My great-grandmother hauled logs from the forest in the winter with her cooper father, ‘cuz the snow cut the friction enough to enable the task. They may have had the help of mules or horses. I dunno, oral tradition fails in this detail.
==============
Joel, my fran, the Wichita Lineman is still on the line.
==========
Karen, I throw up a little windmill in my mouth.
======
The real problem is us – the consumers. We’re irresponsible to demand instant power at the flick of a switch (sarc). We should patiently accept long blackout periods just as our parents and grandparents did (more sarc). Candle light is more flattering as well and what it leads to is more fun (big smile). Mind you, the birthrate tends to rise 9 months later, but what the hell.
GPs and specialists need to train and prepare for the “inevitable increase” in childhood sickness and pressure on health services linked to climate change scares and scams
Fixed it for you!