Australia And Canada Form Climate Realist Alliance
Mark Kennedy
The political leaders of Canada and Australia declared on Monday they won’t take any action to battle climate change that harms their national economies and threatens jobs.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Australian counterpart, Tony Abbott, made the statements following a meeting on Parliament Hill.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper both say there is no need for carbon pricing to combat climate change. Photo: Andrew Meares
Abbott, whose Liberal party came to power last fall on a conservative platform, publicly praised Harper for being an “exemplar” of “centre-right leadership” in the world.
Abbott’s government has come under criticism for its plan to cancel Australia’s carbon tax, while Harper has been criticized for failing to introduce regulations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in Canada’s oil and gas sector.
Later this week, Abbott meets with U.S. President Barack Obama, who has vowed to make global warming a political priority and whose administration is proposing a 30-per-cent reduction of carbon dioxide emissions from power plants by 2030.
At a Monday news conference, Harper and Abbott both said they welcomed Obama’s plan. Abbott said he plans to take similar action, and Harper boasted that Canada is already ahead of the U.S. in imposing controls on the “electricity sector.”
But both leaders stressed that they won’t be pushed into taking steps on climate change they deem unwise.
“It’s not that we don’t seek to deal with climate change,” said Harper. “But we seek to deal with it in a way that will protect and enhance our ability to create jobs and growth. Not destroy jobs and growth in our countries.”
Harper said that no country is going to undertake actions on climate change — “no matter what they say” — that will “deliberately destroy jobs and growth in their country.
“We are just a little more frank about that.”
Abbott said climate change is a “significant problem” but he said it is not the “most important problem the world faces.
“We should do what we reasonably can to limit emissions and avoid climate change, man-made climate change,” said Abbott.
“But we shouldn’t clobber the economy. That’s why I’ve always been against a carbon tax or emissions trading scheme — because it harms our economy without necessarily helping the environment.”
Abbott’s two-day trip to Ottawa was his first since becoming prime minister and it quickly became evident he is on the same political page as Harper. They are both conservative politicians who espouse the need to balance the budget, cut taxes, and focus on international trade.
Just as Harper once turned to former Australian prime John Howard for political guidance, Abbott is now turning to his Canadian counterpart as a model.
Australia, Canada To ‘Forge Alliance’ To Counter Obama’s Green Agenda
International Business Times, 10 June 2014
Reissa Su
Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott is seeking an alliance among “like-minded” nations to thwart efforts to introduce carbon pricing and American President Barack Obama’s move to push climate change through global forums like G20.
Abbott, who is visiting Canada for talks with the country’s prime minister and his close friend Stephen Harper, said efforts are underway to form a new “center-right” alliance under the leadership of Canada, UK, Australia, India and New Zealand.
According to reports, the five Commonwealth nations have “center-right” leaning governments but the closeness between Harper and Abbott is being regarded as the most significant alliance. The combination will attempt to move the pace of climate change action via policies like emissions trading or carbon tax.
Reports said the alliance is a “calculated attempt” to push back on what both Mr Abbott and Mr Harper sees as a “left-liberal agenda” to raise taxes and “unwise” plans to address the issue of global warming.
But Abbott said in a media conference that he thought climate change is a significant problem. But it’s not the “only problem” the world faces. He said the problem remains significant and countries should act based on what they think is best to reduce carbon emissions.
The prime minister said he was “encouraged” that Obama is looking at what he regards as a direct action measure to curb emissions and found it similar to what he proposes in Australia.
He said policies to address climate change should not hurt the economy. Harper agreed with the statement and said they want to deal with climate change “in a way that enhances our ability to create jobs and growth.”
Both leaders may not yield to pressure from the U.S. should Mr Obama revive the issue of climate change ahead of the annual climate summit.
In the previous week, Obama had flagged regulatory changes to influence U.S. states to address global warming by adopting “aggressive market interventions.” as decided to take climate change off G20 agenda. In December, Australia became the chair of G20, which is a group composed of 20 countries having the biggest economies in the world.
Britain Should Join Commonwealth Alliance Against ‘Unhealthy’ Climate Policy, Says Australian PM
The Daily Telegraph, 10 June 2014
Jonathan Pearlman
Tony Abbott pushes for “conservative alliance” between Britain, Australia, Canada and India to limit “unwise” climate change action and resist carbon pricing
Mr Abbott called for limited action on climate change that would not ‘clobber the economy’
“Like-minded” countries such as Britain, Canada and India should form a conservative alliance with Australia to limit action on climate change and to prevent the introduction of carbon pricing, the country’s prime minister Tony Abbott has said.
Seeking to counter Barack Obama’s efforts for international action to reduce carbon emissions, Mr Abbott has reportedly sought to create a “combined front” with fellow Commonwealth nations that have conservative governments.
During a visit to Canada, Mr Abbott called for limited action on climate change that would not “clobber the economy”.
Like Canada’s prime minister Stephen Harper, who withdrew his nation from the Kyoto Protocol on climate change, Mr Abbott has dismantled his predecessor’s policies and moved to repeal Australia’s carbon tax. He is regarded as a climate change sceptic and once referred to global warming science as “absolute crap”, a comment which he later retracted.
Full story
h/t to Dr. Benny Peiser at The GWPF
Well it’s taken a long time for realism to set in but it’s started.
Unfortunately, Abbott still has to wait for changes in the Senate in July, and that’s not looking too good at this time. We will have…errrmmmm…”newbies” in the Senate and some do not understand the term “balance of power”. We also have Clive Palmer who is a…very rich person…who has no concept of the day to day reality of the 99% of ordinary Australians.
The law of unintended consequences – all those “American illegal aliens” will be looking for jobs in those 2 countries shortly. 😉
Why can’t we in the US get sane leadership like our Canadian and Australian cousins have? I know we have to work against steep headwinds with an indoctrinated population but we really need something to wake people in the US up. I never thought when watching the movie “Idiocracy” that I was watching a documentary of the future, and that the future was so disturbingly close.
I changed channel when both started bleating on about “man made climate change” and “emissions”. Maybe they are paying “lip service” to the up and coming meeting with Obama?
I keep hoping that a politician who matters is going to WANT to believe that CAGW is a hoax.
“Owen in GA says:
June 10, 2014 at 6:26 am
Why can’t we in the US get sane leadership like our Canadian and Australian cousins have?”
Not so fast! Abbott is “sucking up” to the alarmist view, especially in the build up to his meeting with Obama. Here in Aus we still need to wait on the outcome of the Senate elections, with Clive Palmer likely to hold the balance of power.
Patrick, you write “Unfortunately, Abbott still has to wait for changes in the Senate in July, and that’s not looking too good at this time.”
I am Canadian, and don’t pretend to understand Australian politics. But I thought that Abbott’s trump card was the threat of “double dissolution”.
I hope this sets the pace for other countries to follow, the madness of trying to control weather thru taxes is insanity.
Not sure how to reconcile the “saviors of sanity” tone of the article with the following quote:
“At a Monday news conference, Harper and Abbott both said they welcomed Obama’s plan. Abbott said he plans to take similar action, and Harper boasted that Canada is already ahead of the U.S. in imposing controls on the ‘electricity sector’.”
“Jim Cripwell says:
June 10, 2014 at 6:32 am
I am Canadian, and don’t pretend to understand Australian politics. But I thought that Abbott’s trump card was the threat of “double dissolution”.”
Abbott and the LNP would lose in a massive landslide towards the Greens and ALP (Labor) and any other party that is not in support of the LNP, if a “double dissolution” (DD) election was held before the next federal election. This is my opinion. Abbott and the LNP know this and are “tip toeing” around “sensitive issues” at this time. I don’t see the LNP “winning” another federal term IMO. Aussies are too much “in love” with welfare and it will, one day IMO, go the way of Spain, Italy and Greece. China will not always buy dirt from Aus, they are already exploring, and extracting, in Africa where the locals don’t matter (To them)!
Double speak ?Both sides of their mouths ?
We will be watching .
I expect Obama to be really ticked off about this and start drawing red lines against Canada and Australia. We know how threatening those can be.
The Canadian greenies will protest and act all indignant, and the public broadcaster (CBC) will have a left-leaning heyday with this news. And like clockwork they’ll trot out that old Canadian embarrassment David Suzuki, he’ll spend hours condemning both national leaders.
This should be good for a laugh.
When I read that no nation would take steps to destroy their own industry and reduce jobs, I knew that they hadn’t met Obama yet….
So proud of Canada. Might even bring a few tears to my eyes.
Harper is currently loathed by the hard leftists. Because they truly can’t wrap their heads around the fact that through his guidance Canada has weathered the financial devastation relatively unscathed. Any person who actually looks at the data and examines the plans of 0bama and others would immediately realize that they want to virtually destroy our civilization for absolutely nothing (except the ones who actually believe that we can run our world on wind and solar… those ones are pretty much lost causes).
There WILL come a time when they look back on this with the same amazement as they look back on the disco era, shaking their heads and saying “what were we thinking?” … but that time is still a long way in the future. For now the best we can hope for is this sort of climate realism.
Sweet Old Bob says:
June 10, 2014 at 6:48 am
Double speak ?Both sides of their mouths ?
We will be watching .
===========================
second that .
It is good to see the cilmate obsession that has gripped too much of the world and cost so much money and time get some formal resistance. I wonder if Mr. Obama can even comprehend what the Canadians and Austrlians are saying?
In light of what Dr. Mann has recently declared about skeptics, I look forward to seeing the response of him and his pals.
The CBC does have an article on Tony Abbott and Stephan Harpers stance. The comments are horrifying, “Our children can think about these criminals in the future as they are forced to strap on oxygen tanks to go outside. Why people feel so powerless to rid themselves of these creeps is beyond me.” Canadians are screaming “tax me more, make my energy more expensive” forgetting that without heat they will die. Makes me wonder about the education system here.
It seems the politician’s spoken answers are blowing in the wind. There are those who bend to the wind of their party and there are those who bend to the wind of polls. The rare leader is the one who stands like an oak tree letting the wind pass him/her by. There is no science in left or right. There is however science. Somewhere in all this wind. Say…Roy…wanna run for Pres? I saw an oak tree being interviewed by Stossel. And you be it. By the way who was that scurrying rat anyway? He snuck in while you had stepped away from the mike, said a few unintelligible words, then vamoosed when you walked back in! Spencer, the rat trapper. Love it.
At a Monday news conference, Harper and Abbott both said they welcomed Obama’s plan.
Well this shows neither are going to be good for their country if they welcome Obama’s plan. Why welcome something that is destructive?
Jim Cripwell says:
June 10, 2014 at 6:29 am
I keep hoping that a politician who matters is going to WANT to believe that CAGW is a hoax.
//////////////////
I think that the Czech Prime Minister (or former prime minister) is the most sceptic of the world leaders. Of course, he heads only a small country.
The UK has a crabon tax. It is far higher than the European equivalent, and it is set to escalate rapidly in the coming years therebu forcing up energy prices and rendering UK industry uncompetitive, and of course forcing more and more consumers into fuel poverty..
The UK’s energy minister was interviewed on the TV today, about the forthcoming blackouts (caused by decommissioning coal plants and gas plants being mothballed because they do not get paid when the windblows and if they can sell energy for only about 75% of the time, they are not that profitable – the profits are made in the last quarter).
Fortunately, the government has a plan. This is that industry will be asked not to use energy between 4 and 8pm. If they do not use energy during that period of the day, they will get paid compensation. The consumer in their energy bills will subsidise that compensation. Of course, in addition there will be a resultant drop in GDP (upon which the minister did not comment) since industry will not be a 24/7 activity but will be only a 20/7 activity and will therefore produce less goods for export etc. In fact it may be even worse than that since many industries may not work after 10 pm and if they are being asked to down tools between 4 and 8pm, to save energy so that it is available for the domestic consumer, the end of the working day may become 4pm. Are the employees going to hang around for 4 hours waiting for when their employer can turn on the lights again? I suspect not. I am sure that the law of unintended consequences will raise its stubborn head (there will be a lot more travel and congestion and hence pollution caused by people leaving work at 4 pm, and retruning back at say 7:30pm)..
It is good to know that we in the UK have such a competent government who are fully on top of matters. In fact the minister was telling us how cost effective this new initiative is. Apparently we should welcome it since although it will add to our bills, it is far cheaper than building more power stations, so there you have it. Good to know. The UK will be closed for business between 4 and 8 pm. Perhaps it is time to go back to the old tradition of afternnon tea. How very civilized.
Let’s see more of that “Yankee go home and mind your own business and stop telling
us what to do, especially since you’re a certified moron” kind of thing.
Let’s see Obama defend his claims in open debate. Considering his past results, I don’t really think he would accept such a challenge.
Now if they can only get China, India and Britain and Russia into their compact, it
would be the ball game. All those countries would join them, I believe.
What we’ll need to wait for is the Australian and Canadian governments to win their next elections on the back of their new “Climate Change” policies. Once that happens the politicians in other countries might start running scared…
“Abbott, who is visiting Canada for talks with the country’s prime minister and his close friend Stephen Harper, said efforts are underway to form a new “center-right” alliance under the leadership of Canada, UK, Australia, India and New Zealand.”
Sadly, there is no way the UK belongs in that group. Our governments for the last 18 years (ironically near enough coinciding with the ‘pause’ in global warming) have most emphatically not been centre-right. With regard to CAGW, the last one tied us legally into the most draconian emissions reduction policy in the world* and the present one – CINO with a few honourable exceptions – seems hell-bent on continuing to drive our economy through the floor.
In any case, the UK is no longer an independent country. Our sovereignty has been almost entirely ceded to the EU, and there’s very little left that can be changed. We can do more – ‘gold-plating’ EU regulations adopted into UK law (which we have no choice about doing) – but we can’t do less. And the EU is a fully paid up member of the Church of CAGW.
* 80% reduction from the 1990 level by 2050. The full horror can be seen at https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/reducing-the-uk-s-greenhouse-gas-emissions-by-80-by-2050
Harper said that no country is going to undertake actions on climate change — “no matter what they say” — that will “deliberately destroy jobs and growth in their country.”
At a Monday news conference, Harper and Abbott both said they welcomed Obama’s plan.
============
Several thoughts:
First, President Obama would (and already has) willingly hamstring the economy for the sake of the greens, although I suspect a great deal of his agenda has more to do with funneling tax dollars to some of his most fervent green supporters, than it does with his opinion on global warming.
Second, if we drop “global warming” and start saying “climate change” then we’ve allowed ourselves to let the greens determine the language. This is, and always has been, about the fears of global warming, not climate change per se, as we will most certainly learn if the warming trend resumes. “Climate change” is just a refuge to buy them some time.
Third, current Canadian and Australian leaders are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They know where they stand and their policies indicate that stance (global warming is a crock that taken seriously will hurt their economies), but they “talk” out of the other side of their mouths, as the articles indicated in several places. President Bush II was the first prominent conservative leader who fell into line in that regard, acknowledging that global warming was a concern, and none have yet fallen back to the line that global warming is a crock.
Fourth, leadership does matter, but we are still awaiting the rise of a national leader in the West who is willing to declare that the Emperor (global warming) has no clothes. If one doesn’t appear soon, the future will be bleak.
P.S. I willingly acknowledge that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, that the physics is sound (based on the analysis of those I trust in the matter), that the seas have risen over thousands of years, that the temperatures are warmer today than a few decades ago, and that the Arctic sea ice has diminished over the past few decades. But the models aren’t working, the earth isn’t currently warming, and it’s foolish to claim that human actions today are dooming the planet based on current knowledge, completely and utterly foolish, though if greens have their way mankind will almost certainly suffer even as the planet does just fine.
It is a shame that Harper and Abbott must tip toe around the AGW issue because of the risk of alienating Obama. It arises from being a flea, on the back of the US elephant.
If we could only say what we mean and mean what we say… This would be a much BETTER world. Still kudos for having the courage to go against the flow of political correctness. Maybe others will find the balls required to be true leaders. GK
It is something of a problem for Prime Minister Harper that British Columbia introduced a carbon tax five years ago (a revenue neutral one) and it did not destroy jobs and the economy in British Columbia. It remains difficult for the Conservatives to reconcile that reality with their rhetoric.
Pamela Gray says:
June 10, 2014 at 7:29 am
Put your hopes on Scott Walker for President. Scuttled the Wisconsin Climate Change BS, faced down the public unions, cut taxes, reduced the bureaucracy and generated a budget surplus while defeating two recall attempts, all in a left wing state. And no one is talking about him.
More like pseudo realism. Realism is a politician not afraid to say “he/she is skeptic of the science behind CAGW.” Instead, these politicians are tap dancing. Granted it’s better than nothing, but still the political climate has more to move.
The real story with respect to Abbott (and I suspect Harper) is that both (and most of their governing parties) are climate sceptics. Abbott’s actions since gaining government last September, have involved wholesale dismantling of pretend science and “climate authorities”, left and right – with a lot more to come. (The cuts to the CSIRO are of this variety). You should look for an article about him at the Sydney Morning Herald (SMH) or Age – and read the asinine and truly hate-filled comments to gauge how the left-green alliance behaves. The hate expressed by the left at conservative politicians (who are much more centre than many Republicans) is orders of magnitude greater than the reverse behaviour over the previous 7 years of leftist administration. I find the acceptance and strident propagation of Climate catastrophism is very close to the popular take up of Nazism in Germany and communism in Russia. It really hurts me that otherwise intelligent people won’t open their eyes, to enquire, to read, but instead hide in the acceptance of higher authority and are even willing to persecute non-believers if urged to by Hansenian commisars or Greenpeace henchpersons.
Thanks, Anthony. Good news!
Is this proof there is intelligent political life on Earth?
I like the name “climate realist”, I think I’ll use that instead of skeptic.
“Seeking to counter Barack Obama’s efforts for international action to reduce carbon emissions, Mr Abbott has reportedly sought to create a “combined front” with fellow Commonwealth nations that have conservative governments.
During a visit to Canada, Mr Abbott called for limited action on climate change that would not “clobber the economy”.”
Unfortunately, like others seem to have said, I don’t see this as a total pullback from the CAGW religion. The two leaders still seem to be toeing the party line that CO2 is a meaningful driver of climate and temperature that we need to concern ourselves with. I guess the politics of the day in their countries don’t allow anything else.
But I guess a partial pullback is better than none at all. And for that, they deserve credit.
I am however still waiting patiently for the day when some global leader will totally repudiate this nonsense and present the scientific evidence that says it is so.
The president of the USA said that our country is going to undertake actions on climate change — “no matter what they say” — that will “deliberately destroy jobs and growth in our country.
We should clobber the economy. That’s why he’s always been for a carbon tax or emissions trading scheme — because it harms our economy without necessarily helping the environment.
There, fixed.
The more things change the more they remain the same. CAGW as a problem of scientific importance is bunk but as a problem of political importance it trumps all. And the gravy train rolls on. China must be working very hard to conceal their Cheshire smile as they accept the world is theirs.
We’ll catch on to our failures when China begins off-shoring their dirty work to take advantage of cheap American labor and we’ll be grateful for the jobs no matter how menial.
***
At a Monday news conference, Harper and Abbott both said they welcomed Obama’s plan.
***
Stated with a smirk & hidden chuckle….
“Leo Geiger on June 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
It is something of a problem for Prime Minister Harper that British Columbia introduced a carbon tax five years ago (a revenue neutral one) and it did not destroy jobs and the economy in British Columbia. It remains difficult for the Conservatives to reconcile that reality with their rhetoric.”
Leo, why is it that Alberta roads have so many vehicles with BC plates then. They are resident to BC but work in Alberta cause that’s where the frickin good paying jobs are sheesh. That’s reality.
Of course they welcome Obama’s plan. It will weaken our competitive edge, which can only help their countries. What’s not to like?
In reality, it really doesn’t matter at all what Obama, Harper or Abbott believe regarding ‘climate change’ (or the lack of it). Here are the Mauna Loa CO2 measurements. Can anyone spot the effect of having signed up for the Kyoto Protocol?
I might even argue that, in the case of the UK and Germany, the attempt to reduce CO2 emissions by 30% over X years has actually increased them. We now have our half-wit ‘minister responsible’ claiming that the lights won’t go out because business will voluntarily shut down when we get too close to the wire. Apparently they will fire up their own local diesel generators, at great cost to the typical consumer, and save the economy (but not CO2 or any of the other sh*t these generators will exhaust). (see STOR)
Beyond a joke. Don’t laugh too much … Looks like The US is heading up the same road.
“We should do what we reasonably can to limit emissions and avoid climate change,”
Poor way to state it. It should be “We should do what we reasonably can to limit emissions and avoid contributing to climate change.”
And jealousy is growing in the other places that still toil under the thumb of science fraud networks. A carbon curtain has descended on Europe and the U.S. and no rational words get out from those areas.
“It’s not that we don’t seek to deal with climate change,” said Harper. “But we seek to deal with it in a way that will protect and enhance our ability to create jobs and growth. Not destroy jobs and growth in our countries.”
Harper said that no country is going to undertake actions on climate change — “no matter what they say” — that will “deliberately destroy jobs and growth in their country.
“We are just a little more frank about that.”
Abbott said climate change is a “significant problem” but he said it is not the “most important problem the world faces.
“We should do what we reasonably can to limit emissions and avoid climate change, man-made climate change,” said Abbott.
“But we shouldn’t clobber the economy. That’s why I’ve always been against a carbon tax or emissions trading scheme — because it harms our economy without necessarily helping the environment.”
These words coming from Austarlia and Canada are a breath of fresh air to the citizens of these two countries when compared to the fabricated carbon dioxide pollution nonsense coming from Washington to their public
Now all we need is for our New Zealand government to join OZ and Canada in this sensible move. Of course, they could only do this after the impending national election, if the centrist National party can again be returned rather than the leftist Socialist / water melon Greenies.
Politically, CAGW is on he downward slope – Obama is the only real impediment to increasing the decline.
Well John Key needs to get NZ in line with OzCan asap.
They already withJapCan said nyet on K-2, so the Kiwi should join with our mates of the big island and the Canucks.
It’s time to start a countercurrent to this nonsense.
I see Mikelowe2013 thinks likewise. I should read everything before doing anything.
How about this: Wind turbines cause 1600 miscarriages on a Fur farm. But who cares about animals that are getting turned into coats anyway?
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/06/10/Wind-Turbines-Caused-1-600-Miscarriages-on-Fur-Farm
I think Abbott is a skeptic, but must pay lip service to Obama in order to assure a strong US Navy presence in the southern Pacific. China is being pretty aggressive in its territorial claims and by stroking Obama’s ego with respect to his position on climate change is just hedging his bets. I really don’t think Obama cares about what any other nations do, but he does like to hear people tell him he is right.
When the lights go out in the U.S. things will change as almost happened this past January at which time the almost loss of electric power would have effected some 60 million Americans.
This incident was due to bitter cold weather and not a storm when not enough electricity was available.
This information is available in Congressional hearings records.
If climate were a patient, the doctor had prescribed an implantable cardioverter-defibrillator a decade ago. Why do these prime ministers nostrify anthropogenic climocentrisim? Or even feel the need to mention climate?
The key question is: who on earth defends human rights nowadays? Supposedly not the socialist any more now than in the human history. So who will?
Don’t listen to what Abbott says; just observe what he is doing, or at least trying to do. The dismantling of “green schemes” and the various government administration that goes with them is one important pointer. His next big test is the legislation to repeal the Carbon Tax. Expect that to be introduced in a month or so, once the new senators are installed in the upper house. Doesn’t matter on whit what platutudes are offered up to the media ahead of his meetings in the USA. Follow the legislation and the budget.
Why would a Canadian (or a Russian) want to stop the world from getting 2-6C warmer?
Barbara
” When the lights go out in the U.S. things will change as almost happened this past January”
One of the other reasons that I see problems is that like with problem that plagued Obama health care introduction, they are again trying to do too much change too quickly and do it nation wide during an upcoming colder than normal climate cycle . Not only will the lights go out more often in some regions but there may be insufficient electrical energy to heat your home during colder than normal winters
As the greatest generation withers, the old broadcast networks and their seductive talking heads go with them. Fifty years ago they’d have had school kids in Denver doing rowboat drills on the baseball field to prepare for rising seas.
Jim Cripwell says:
June 10, 2014 at 6:32 am
Patrick, you write “Unfortunately, Abbott still has to wait for changes in the Senate in July, and that’s not looking too good at this time.”
I am Canadian, and don’t pretend to understand Australian politics. But I thought that Abbott’s trump card was the threat of “double dissolution”.
*************************************************************************************************************
Unfortunately since the budget was handed down the double dissolution option seems to have vanished with the “enraged” voters.
Claude Harvey says:
June 10, 2014 at 6:43 am
Not sure how to reconcile the “saviors of sanity” tone of the article with the following quote:
“At a Monday news conference, Harper and Abbott both said they welcomed Obama’s plan. Abbott said he plans to take similar action, and Harper boasted that Canada is already ahead of the U.S. in imposing controls on the ‘electricity sector’.”
***************************************************************************************************************
Sure they welcome Obama’s plan. Obama’s plan will benefit Australia and Canada. LOL
Mark Kennedy
The political leaders of Canada and Australia declared on Monday they won’t takeany action to battle climate change that harms their national economies and threatens jobs.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Australian counterpart, Tony Abbott, made the statements following a meeting on Parliament Hill.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper both say there is no need for carbon pricing to combat climate change. Photo: Andrew Meares
===
Well that’s not quite the same thing, is it?
Mark Kennedy’s head line is close to a denialist stance: economic growth and be damned. This is exactly what warmists characterise as the climate D-nial, and it does exist.
What Harper and Abbot, proably correctly, state is that there is not need.
Thanks to Mark Kennedy for highlighing the difference between D-nialist stance and a balanced assessment of the need to control “carbon”.
Leo Geiger says:
June 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
It is something of a problem for Prime Minister Harper that British Columbia introduced a carbon tax five years ago (a revenue neutral one) and it did not destroy jobs and the economy in British Columbia. It remains difficult for the Conservatives to reconcile that reality with their rhetoric.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Really Leo? We have had this discussion before. BC used to (USED TO) outperform Alberta with all of its mining, fishing, and forestry industries. But look what has happened it the last while. Alberta went from having a lower GDP than BC in 1999 to 50% more than BC’s GDP in 2012.
The below is from http://bcstats.gov.bc.ca/StatisticsBySubject/Economy/EconomicAccounts.aspx
showing GDP in millions of $C
Alberta had a population of less than 3.7 million in 2012, now closer to 4.1 million.
BC had a population of about 4.5 million in 2012 and currently is about 4.7 million with over half the population living in the lower mainland.
BC GDP per person 2012 = $48,900
Alberta GDP per person 2012 = $84,300
1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
123,150 133,724 135,884 140,525 148,540 161,114 173,641 186,772 197,072 203,951 195,966 205,996 215,148 219,994
118,782 146,539 153,593 152,744 172,880 193,353 224,373 244,523 259,087 295,126 246,717 270,100 298,049 311,898
Somehow I think I will stay in Alberta. Thank you BC for my degree and training, but I see my kids barely making it in BC so I will say away from the Suzuki-ized LEFT coast. (Jeez, I even took classes from the guy😞)
Taxed to death says:
June 10, 2014 at 9:37 am
“Leo Geiger on June 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
Leo, why is it that Alberta roads have so many vehicles with BC plates then. They are resident to BC but work in Alberta cause that’s where the frickin good paying jobs are sheesh. That’s reality.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yep. There are charter flights between Fort Mac and Kelowna and now some airlines are opening up additional flights from BC to Alberta because of all the workers moving back and forth.
You really need to understand that Australia is a dyed in the wool (literally) socialist country and for that you have to understand how it was built by many immigrants travelling as “mates” for 3 or 4 months in frail wooden (mostly Canadian built) clipper ships in the 19th century. This gave the unlanded classes a fierce loyalty to each other that is always against the govenrment – particularly when it is thratening their “entitlements”. Read Peter Fitzsimmons books on the Eureka Stockade and the bushranger Ned Kelly to understand that.
The public service is enormous and have locked in Labor (and some Green for the environmentally precious and university intellectuals) voters. The only time that conservatives get a chance to govern is when the Labor (and it is spelled that way) government is a shambles and lands us in deep debt – then we hurry back to the conservatives to sort the budget out – get us out of debt – then when there is money in the bank we can indulge in the luxury of a spendthrift government that gives it all away again. (We went from a huge surplus built up over the Howard and Costello years to $300B in debt over the last 6 years of fiasco.) We truly live in an age of entitlement.
So Abbott has to tread very carefully – he only has a 3 year term and has to make an impact in the first 2 to stand any chance of being re-elected. The suggestions to watch what he does – rather than what he says – are quite correct. He is unwinding a lot of the labor/green legislation – but because of the complexities of the multi-layers of government – it will take time and will not be sweeping. he also has to bring the State and Territory governments along with him if he is to stand a chance (and that isnt easy either). He is of course hoping that his actions will be seen in 2 or 3 years time as being wise and leading – but I fear for our future if he does not succeed.
Take care out there – – the cold winds of change are blowing.
Leo Geiger says:
June 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
It is something of a problem for Prime Minister Harper that British Columbia introduced a carbon tax five years ago (a revenue neutral one) and it did not destroy jobs and the economy in British Columbia. It remains difficult for the Conservatives to reconcile that reality with their rhetoric.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
4.6 million people. Park one bus and you cut CO2 by 20%. Park two buses and your mass transit fails.
What about the “clearances” out of Ireland and Scotland to the colonies in the 19th century so wool and meat could be produced where people used to have tiny cottages on small plots of land.
Might make some of the emigrants just a bit anti-government. And the emigrants got the best end of that deal.
I suppose we will just have to wait and see. There’s plenty of double talk going on here. I don’t see any outright dismissal of the CAGW Climate change nonsense, when they are both supportive of Obama’s plan to destroy the coal industry there. This, while saying they don’t want to take action against climate change that will ”clobber” their economies.
Reading over it, and the subsequent comments here, it seems that there are various ways to interpret the mixed messages being sent out. Take the Politics out of Science.
Eamon.
Eamon Butler has it right. There is double-talk by Harper and Abbott. Both are fake conservatives that are really just peddling the same climate alarmism and crony capitalism as Obama is. Only truly low-info voters would fall for Harper’s and Abbott’s nonsense. See here http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/63678
Leo Geiger
Lol – Right, BC carbon tax no effect on economy? Then you might want to answer why BC customers are filling their gas tanks in Alberta and across the US border, buying food and appliances in Alberta and the US. Then tell some poor sucker there is no effect on BC’s economy. Moreover, BC citizens are working here in Alberta where the better money is located.
Money talks and Harper gets it. Watermelons know only how to spend other people’s money on green fantasies like the green economy. If they had to actually earn a living they would quickly be roaming skid row, homeless and penniless. Some, like Suzuki and Gore, profit spectacularly by taking advantage of the watermelons; like most cult leaders they don’t at all practice what they preach.
Watermelons, don’t kid yourself. You like to stay warm in the winter as much as those of us living in the real world. At least we’re not ungrateful about the fossil fuel industry that 1) provides the energy to heat our homes; 2) provides jobs that sustain the Canadian economy and 3) gives governments tax and royalty revenue that (at least in Canada) funds the social programs that you so glibly call “free”. As I said at the start, money talks and Harper gets it.
cannot tell u how toxic the media is in australia. here’s an example which google’s al-gore-ithms kindly placed on my google news main page today, from “trendy” CAGW-friendly Crikey:
10 June: Crikey: Bernard Keane: Abbott and Harper renew a blinkered coalition of denialism
There’s a certain inevitability about Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper standing shoulder-to-shoulder in an effort to stymie international action on climate change. That’s not just because they’re middle-aged white conservatives, which is defining demography of climate denialism — if CO2 caused baldness and erectile dysfunction climate change would have been addressed decades ago — but because they lead two of the world’s most carbon-intensive major economies, both of which are reliant on resources exports…
Harper is now the senior partner, with Abbott the new deputy denier…
Tragically, however, George W. Bush has been replaced by a Democrat, and one who has belatedly decided to route around the Republican Party’s denialism and use his executive powers to impose an emissions reduction target on power plants. The Obama administration has also made it clear for some months that it wanted this year’s G20 meeting to take climate change seriously, a potential humiliation for Australia given the Abbott government’s stance. Australia’s response to the US push so far seems to have been derived from Basil Fawlty’s “don’t mention the war” approach…
Climate change is also a national security issue. If other older conservative males can’t cope with the idea of climate change, America’s military brass have no difficulty.
***The Pentagon’s Quadrennial Defense Review of March this year warned that climate change would increase the cost of future operations and increase the threat faced by the US…
http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/06/10/abbott-and-harper-renew-a-blinkered-coalition-of-denialism/
Adelaide Festival of Ideas: Bernard Keane, Crikey
Bernard Keane has been Crikey’s correspondent in Canberra since 2008, writing on politics, media and economics. He was educated at the University of Sydney and has a PhD in history. Before joining Crikey he was a public servant, beginning with stints in transport policy and as a speechwriter before moving into communications and media policy.
http://adelaidefestivalofideas.com.au/speakers_new/bernard-keane/
will post the debunking of the Pentagon report in a followup comment.
Sierra Rayne (@rayne_sierra) says:
June 10, 2014 at 5:42 pm
“Only truly low-info voters would fall for Harper’s and Abbott’s nonsense” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is hilarious.
I’m sorry but I can not in good conscience give any “visits” to the cowardly CFP.
Standing by Harper until he gives me a reason not to.
He is what Canada (and the rest of the world, frankly) needs.
An economist with some stones.
waiting for comment with link to Bernard Keane at Crikey to come out of moderation. however, this is my response to Keane bringing up the debunked Pentagon report:
Keane: as amusing as it is to see anti-rightwing CAGW folks like u spruiking for the Pentagon, their report was first exposed as fake ten years ago. & again more recently:
2004: NBC: Storm over Pentagon climate scenario
Consultants present worst-case view: warming, then sudden cooling
The Pentagon think tank, for its part, paid $100,000 for the report but said it was not satisfied and would not forward it to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld…
The report’s authors said their scenario was “not implausible” and would challenge U.S. national security in ways that should be considered immediately…
But following all of the controversy, the authors’ consulting firm, Global Business Network, stated on its Web site that that the report offered a worst-case scenario, not a prediction.
“As is customary in military and defense-related projects, the authors describe a worst case scenario (not a prediction) for abrupt climate change,” the company said. “They note that ‘the purpose of this report is to imagine the unthinkable—to push the boundaries of current research on climate change so we may better understand the potential implications on national security.’ Contrary to some recent media coverage, the report was not secret, suppressed, or predictive.”…
The Pentagon official who commissioned the study, Andrew Marshall, issued a brief statement saying it “reflects the limits of scientific models and information when it comes to predicting the effects of abrupt global warming. … Much of what this study predicts is still speculation.”…
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4379905/ns/us_news-environment/t/storm-over-pentagon-climate-scenario/
1 June 2014: Washington Times: Rowan Scarborough: Pentagon wrestles with bogus climate warnings as funds shifted to green agenda
Ten years ago, the Pentagon paid for a climate study that put forth many scary scenarios.
Consultants told the military that, by now, California would be flooded by inland seas, The Hague would be unlivable, polar ice would be mostly gone in summer, and global temperatures would rise at an accelerated rate as high as 0.5 degrees a year.
None of that has happened…
The report also became gospel to climate change doomsayers, who predicted pervasive and more intense hurricanes, tornadoes, floods and droughts…Doug Randall, who co-authored the Pentagon report, said, “Even I’m surprised at how often it’s referred to…
Asked about his scenarios for the 2003-2010 period, Mr. Randall said in an interview: “The report was really looking at worst-case. And when you are looking at worst-case 10 years out, you are not trying to predict precisely what’s going to happen but instead trying to get people to understand what could happen to motivate strategic decision-making and wake people up. But whether the actual specifics came true, of course not. That never was the main intent.”…
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/1/pentagon-wrestles-with-false-climate-predictions-a/?page=all
Harper & Abbott have some bipartisan support in DC:
11 June: WOWK TV: Mandi Cardosi: Lawmakers in Congress introduce bill to stop EPA carbon emission rules
It has been one week since President Barack Obama announced a new proposed rule capping carbon emissions for existing power plants – leaving West Virginia officials frantic.
On June 10, U.S. Reps. Nick J. Rahall, D-W.Va, and David McKinley, R-W.Va., introduced a bill to stop it.
“Last week, the EPA unleashed its latest assault on the jobs and livelihoods of our coal miners,” Rahall said in a news release. “The EPA needs to get their head out of the clouds and come back down to Earth where the rest of us must live and work. We don’t need more regulation to solve our energy challenges — we need more innovation.”…
Rahall and McKinley’s bill (H.R. 4813), which already has 68 cosponsors, would terminate the new rule for existing power plants, along with the proposed rule for future power plants. In addition, to prevent some sleight of hand maneuver by the EPA, the bill will aim to block the issuance of similar rules for at least the next 5 years without Congressional approval.
“I have fought with our coal miners for years, defending their jobs, promoting their health and safety, and protecting the pension and health care benefits they’ve worked so hard to earn,” Rahall added. “So when someone picks a fight with our coal miners, I put on the gloves. This may be one whale of a fight, but I am not slugging it out alone. …
http://www.wowktv.com/story/25738760/lawmakers-in-congress-introduce-bill-to-stop-epa-carbon-emission-rules
Don’t underestimate Tony Abbott, he is a seasoned politician, and I agree with his former opposition statement, Climate change is crap. Obviously he doesn’t want to sound absolutely climate denial. But a lot of new senators haven’t a clue what Clive is attempting. He is using politics to benefit his own agendas and a recent interview with Mike Willessie was absolutely laughable. Mind you, some of his ideas are not too bad, but he is not in the Senate and thinks he can control how his party in the Senate can vote. Anyway the Chinese are after him in a big way and claiming he used 12 million of their money to boost his political funding of his party and the Qld government are investigating if he is guilty of corruption. You don’t take on the Chinese Clive.
“The UK has a crabon tax” This is the best description of a Carbon Tax that I have ever seen, It reminds me of some days at the beach which resulted in much pain and no gain.
PAT
Thanks for this quote from Washington Times
…Doug Randall, who co-authored the Pentagon report, said, “Even I’m surprised at how often it’s referred to…
Asked about his scenarios for the 2003-2010 period, Mr. Randall said in an interview: “The report was really looking at worst-case. And when you are looking at worst-case 10 years out, you are not trying to predict precisely what’s going to happen but instead trying to get people to understand what could happen to motivate strategic decision-making and wake people up. But whether the actual specifics came true, of course not. That never was the main intent.”…
It speaks to the heart of false climate science alarmism that is rampant to day .These alarmist climate science reports are meant to exaggerate and scare people. They do not highlight that these are worst case projections in the opening paragraph . These qualifications never make the headlines or press releases .The rational world does not plan for the future based on worst case scenarios. We might as well all quit living if this was the case . The problem is that politicians like the Democrats take these worst case situations and make public policies and actions as if they were true. They then fabricate entirely new falsehoods like carbon dioxide pollution scares on top of these worst case scenarios and you now have a firm government action thrust on the general public that is all pure fabrication of a worst case scenario that will never come about. Yet it comes from the highest administrative offices in the land
“3×2 says:
June 10, 2014 at 10:06 am
Apparently they will fire up their own local diesel generators, at great cost to the typical consumer, and save the economy (but not CO2 or any of the other sh*t these generators will exhaust).”
If anyone wants to see a real world example of how bad a situation like this gets on a large, city wide, scale look at Lagos in Nigeria. It’s exactly not what to do.
[rather: “what not to do”? .mod]
Ontarians are crossing the U.S.border to purchase goods and gasoline/diesel fuels as well.
Electric power sources are being built or in the planning process to supply electricity to the U.S.
Manitoba has a hydro project planned and so does Newfoundland to supply power to the U.S.
Ontario has the planned Naticoke HVDC Lake Erie connector to Pennsylvania to supply power to the U.S.
One has to remember that there has been wall to wall propaganda about global warming in Australia from media since before the Copenhagen meeting, and very little to the contrary. So Mr. Abbott has to tread carefully for political reasons since if there were to be an election tomorrow half the country would vote against him according to the opinion polls. Information such as there has been no significant increase in global temperatures for 17 years is not reported, just hyperbole about more fires and droughts and both the leaders of the Greens (Milne), and Labor (Shorten) believe in global warming, sorry climate change.
I didn’t know Britain has a carbon tax? Are you sure? It buys a lot from Europe for energy,
[trimmed. Inappropriate. .mod]
“bushbunny says:
June 11, 2014 at 6:32 pm”
Yes, a “carbon price” of GBP18/tonne. I understand annual automatic increases have been recantly halted due to volatility in the EU carbon markets.
Leo Geiger says:
June 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
It is something of a problem for Prime Minister Harper that British Columbia introduced a carbon tax five years ago (a revenue neutral one) and it did not destroy jobs and the economy in British Columbia. It remains difficult for the Conservatives to reconcile that reality with their rhetoric.
_____________________
Really now, a carbon tax has not destroyed jobs and the economy,…..Too funny, what about us working class people who now have to choose between gas/energy, eating and paying our rent? Prices have skyrocketed on everything… food, gas, elec., travel, goods.. etc. because of the carbon dioxide tax.
EVERYTHING,…. trickles down bro!
AND we will all work, LONGER, HARDER, STRESSFULLY .
I cant afford to own a home or run a car. I have to ride the bus 3 hours a day instead of 1 hour a day driving… 3 fuking buses… on top of my 10 hour work day, 6 days a week to pay for a made up faux tax on traveling to work, escalating energy costs for HVAC in our homes(in Canada) for more carbon(CO2) reduction scams and more university’s churning out environmentalists to the work force to control us with BS PHD’s making our lives a living hell..
Well as long as it doesn’t destroy jobs or the economy. LOL
Maybe I should get a horse or walk… oh wait I already walk 3 miles because bus service is not here to get me to work on time….and the dirty sticky bus I catch is late half the time …..and mass transit is the cure for all that ails the world dontcha know….
Thanks Andrew Weaver, Mike Mann, James Hansen, Maurice strong , Steven Schneider, David Suzuki, the UN, WWF, Greenpeace, sierra club.
Yeaa.. Thanks for taking my kids future earnings and the next generation and I’ll be working till I’m 80…. well…. if I don’t die first from running myself ragged trying to pay my bills.
What a great future!
Planebrad@ 124 pm.
but must pay lip service to Obama in order to assure a strong US Navy presence in the southern Pacific.
Actually that should be the strong hand, because, “Mr. USA we won’t give you access to our ports” (I know a little late seeing what happened a few months ago with the marines moving in) but still Australia, Canada and NZ could and should play hard ball. Canada and Australia have an upper hand. Canada has the oil card and OZ and NZ has the Pacific access card.
Al Gore comments on the Obama/Abbott meeting.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/al-gore-mother-nature-has-louder-voice-than-tony-abbott-on-climate-20140612-zs4wx.html#ixzz34P6baLyt
Leo Geiger says:
June 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
It is something of a problem for Prime Minister Harper that British Columbia introduced a carbon tax five years ago (a revenue neutral one) and it did not destroy jobs and the economy in British Columbia. It remains difficult for the Conservatives to reconcile that reality with their rhetoric.
The carbon tax in BC has resulted in the highest gas prices in all of the country in Canada, “The revenue Neutral” may be believed by some, but not many.
Leo Geiger says:
June 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
It is something of a problem for Prime Minister Harper that British Columbia introduced a carbon tax five years ago (a revenue neutral one) and it did not destroy jobs and the economy in British Columbia. It remains difficult for the Conservatives to reconcile that reality with their rhetoric.
Perhaps you want to explain just how “neutral” your revenue neutral carbon tax really is? Perhaps the effects on the economy are not as neutral as you would like others to believe?
Well, Harper and Abbott are both accused of being fascists. We know PM Harper is and we know just who donated to PM Harper’s Alliance in 2002. There was also Harper’s Northern Foundation of 1989.
I can’t believe people see no wrong in, Harper giving Communist China control of Canada’s vast resources? Harper has approved the Northern Gateway for China’s benefit. Petro-China put in a bid to *help* build the Enbridge pipeline, no doubt with their own cheap labor.
Canada is being overrun with Chinese. China now wants their history and culture taught in Canada’s schools. Time to get out of Canada and leave this country to Harper and his Communist Chinese.
Leo Geiger says:
June 10, 2014 at 8:06 am
It is something of a problem for Prime Minister Harper that British Columbia introduced a carbon tax five years ago (a revenue neutral one) and it did not destroy jobs and the economy in British Columbia. It remains difficult for the Conservatives to reconcile that reality with their rhetoric.
RU mad? the economy here would be at least 10-20% better off without the carbon tax (which is ‘revenue neutral’ only in some pols’ rhetoric).