Truth is often stranger than fiction, and Al Gore’s missives are often stranger than both. Robert Schaefer writes:
I just got back from the 2014 International UFO Congress, the largest UFO conference in the world, where somebody was passing out the following to the attendees (a double-sided paper on orange stock). Looks like Al Gore is using Extraterrestrials to help fight Global Warming!
On another matter, the Randi Foundation has not yet posted the video of Michael Mann’s talk on their YouTube channel. I suspect that Mann may not want them to.
===============================================================
Either this is a joke being perpetrated by somebody at the conference just for fun, or it’s a sign of desperation, something I can surely understand when you look at graphs like this:
Lower rank numbers are better, for example, Google is #1.
For the record, I don’t believe in Aliens/UFO’s on Earth (with millions of cell phone cameras you’d think we’d have a decent picture by now) or Al Gore’s global warming claims. – Anthony
Al Gore is an alien
Sure, the Gorns (aka the Lizard People) want a nice hot world, but the Andorians come from an ice world, and they like it cold.
I think Al Gore is working for the Andorians.
OK, I’ll bite. Why would a warmer world be more appealing to aliens? What if they were from the planet Hoth?
It’s not about science, but control – Club of Rome…
http://youtu.be/WrdmjBAX0E0
People who believe in UFOs are probably prone to believe in other magical conspiracy theories and so forth. They present a natural audience for Gore’s bloviating.
It is staggering to think that the Randi Foundation supports Mann:
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/jref-news/2124-michael-e-mann-and-sanal-edamaruku-join-tam-2013-speakers-lineup.html
Ah well, there are poor lost souls who will back almost any cause. I hope the individual who passed out the flyer gets better soon, and suggest this isn’t a worthy topic for WUWT.
Great to see them gasping angry sarcastic cynicism as their CAGW belief system crashes and burns.
Gore’s Reality Drop advocates:
Roy Spencer documents:95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong!
With >95% “consensus” what’s to get wrong?
Only the scientific method?
Compare Noble Laureate Richard Feynman’s challenge to uphold scientific integrity in “Cargo Cult Science”
What happened to his Massage Therapist? Obvious to me he needs more therapy.
Next he will be waring an Aluminum Skull Cap with Martian Antennas and have a light bulb in his mouth.
Paul
Oh and speaking of Randi, at least the blog, very, very few commenters anymore. Maybe the true skeptics up and left when the Randi blog espoused belief in AGW.
The prevailing consensus of tossing virgins into volcanoes, to improve the weather must be updated to include algores 12 ton carbon load, just in time as he is in Volcano land.
Who knew to assuage the warmer, in this modern age now includes flagging down passing aliens..
The only thing aliens would be interested here would be the Chlorophyll and the Protein, which so far has not been is found anywhere else in the universe, except here on this little planet…
We better keep quiet, for our very own survival.
He’s been reading about Svensmark’s work on the influence of cosmic rays on cloud formation and has misunderstood the science (again).
“Keep Earth for Earthlings”?
Then where would Gore go?
Al Gore is cereal. Super cereal.
Aliens: the first derivative of: “human CO2 = end of human race.”
i.e., Human CO2 –> Aliens = end of human race.
Next time, boys and girls, watch for the 2nd derivative of human CO2 = end of human race.
….. MANBEARPIG! He really is out there.
i.e., Human CO2 –> Aliens –> Aliens’ advanced knowledge brings Manbearpig BACK TO LIFE (he is most likely either in the deepest part of the Pacific Ocean or… at the North Pole…)
= end of human race.
Of COURSE Ehrlich and his lot eagerly desire the end of the human race….. but, they are not the main influencers, here, who are: the Envirostalinists who want political power and or to be Enviro-profiteers (e.g., algore) who need the votes or purchase choices of people who don’t want the end of humanity, so…. . More garbage thrown about just hoping some of it will stick…. somewhere, ANYWHERE!!! AAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Desperation.
Not a pretty sight.
*******************************************
Re: The Aliens Hypothesis — don’t knock it, lol — some people actually use this with a straight face to try to refute Intelligent Design Theory (to come up with the ultimate source of the basic elements or molecules that began life on earth). And they are TOTALLY CEREAL.
Gunga Din says:
February 17, 2014 at 2:39 pm
“Keep Earth for Earthlings”?
Then where would Gore go?
———–
About 1 km down where it is a million degrees.
John Boles says:
February 17, 2014 at 2:33 pm
—-l
Also used to read the blog before they decided to abandon the skeptical approach to CAGW.
Well, we do have Minnesotan’s for global warming. Why not Aliens too?
Hot – Cold – Tipper – Al – Gore – Blood. It’s some kind of stew-pot I think, just like potatoes – cabbages – vegetables – peas and sprouts (from Brussels). – Cannot be untangled.
Once upon a time people actually invested hard earned cash in the “Blood & Gore” enterprise. So – nothing surprises me any more. Not even orange fliers (flyers) with Gore’s name on them.
Charlie Sheen warned us about the alien plot to warm up earth in an important documentary he made in 1996:
This is in line with the latest news from The Climate Council headed by Tim Flannery, former employee of the Australian Federal Government. According to an interview this morning with one of his council members, the latest is that forget Global Warming or Climate Change. It is now referred to as….. wait for it……”Climate Weirdness”. That’s to cover droughts, heat waves, ice storms, floods etc.
“with millions of cell phone cameras you’d think we’d have a decent picture by now”
Sorry, you shouldn’t think that. Cell phone cameras don’t take decent pictures.
“I don’t believe in Aliens/UFO’s on Earth ”
I am agnostic on aliens, but I do believe in Unidentified Flying Objects. I see things in the sky that I can’t identify all the time. They are objects, they are flying and they are unidentified. UFO alien spacecraft.
Arrg: That last was supposed to be UFO is not equal to alien spacecraft.
oooops, wrong dockumentary. Here is the correct SF prediction of alien doom by way of climate:
@Dr Burns,
It would be more staggering if Randi didn’t allow Mann to speak. Ideas need to be defended or attacked with reasoned argument, not censorship.
Al Gore is a shape shifting alien reptile and I wish he’d go home.
I thought believers in UFOs actively wanted THEM to make themselves known to us, not dissuade THEM from visiting the third rock out from Sol the bluey/green one that has been radiating strange radio signals in every direction for around one hundred of their orbits.
Amazing to think that 40 light years from here there could be a race of multi-tentacled creatures with a really good radio telescope and a good translator- shocked at the antics of Richard Nixon and wondering if The Beatles are going to get back together in 1974, because their solo albums to date have been a bit disappointing, but the reports of global cooling and a new 1970s ice age don’t sound too good.
At least we can count on help from ManBearPig to fight off the aliens…
For the record, I don’t believe in Aliens/UFO’s on Earth (with millions of cell phone cameras you’d think we’d have a decent picture by now) or Al Gore’s global warming claims. – Anthony
—————————————–
Oh I don’t know about that.
We can’t even get a good picture of Yeti and we know he’s real.
cn
This debate is just getting truly bizarre. Common sense has well and truly flown out the window.
“For the record, I don’t believe in Aliens/UFO’s on Earth (with millions of cell phone cameras you’d think we’d have a decent picture by now)… ”
Don’t you think the Aliens know that. That’s why they shapeshift. Who does the alien bounty hunter remind you of? (;>)
Gore and aliens. Presumably the latter’s carbon footprint is much smaller than that of Gore. After all, that shouldn’t be too difficult, no matter what species from whatever planet.
“In searching for a common enemy against whom we can unite, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like, would fit the bill. In their totality and interactions these phenomena do constitute a common threat which must be confronted by everyone together. But in designating these dangers as the enemy, we fall into the trap, which we have already warned readers about, namely mistaking symptoms for causes. All these dangers are caused by human intervention in natural processes, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then is humanity itself.”
Club of Rome 1992
It is not “earthlings” but “Earthians” as the Australian ex-Green leader, Senator Bob Brown can tell you. He has been in contact.
“The pursuit of eternity is no longer the prerogative of the gods,” said the Greens leader, “it is the business of us all, here and now.”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/earth-to-gillard-watch-bob-brown/story-fn8qlm5e-1226315848343
By the time I’ve switched the phone to camera, they’ve accelerated way above cloud level, you never get a clear image of anything that fast.
They’re called Teasers- intergalactic rich kids with powerful rides who get a kick out of buzzing primitive worlds, strutting up and down in front of some poor soul, who no one is ever going to believe, making “beep-beep” noises.
(sarc off)
Before Al welcomes ETs to our cozy planet, I hope he asks them first if they consider humans as tasty.
The ClimateReality Project poster says
Venus has 96% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 460 °C
Mars has 95.9% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = −55 °C
Earth has 0.4% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 15°C
The IPCC informs me that on planet
GoreEarthThen there is the issue of atmosphere, pressure etc. Is the ClimateReality Project attempting to mislead?
PS the Father of modern day global warming, Dr. James Hansen, had this to say back in the 1960s.
My last paragraph should not be indented. My words, not a quote.
Kind of makes sense to me…
I mean, maybe they are just hoping little green men can help them find their missing 0.4 degrees of global warming!
If ‘aliens’ listened to Al Gore’s they would have saved themselves energy and just invaded Mars. The only problem is that they would freeze to death. Mars has 95.9% Co2 in its atmosphere (almost exactly the same as Venus) yet has an average temperature = MINUS −55 °C.
It is always better to give people ALL the information and avoid cherry picking. Did you see he only included Venus, Mercury and Earth? Why? 😉
For the record I do not believe in aliens.
I learnt a new term: ALGOR MORTIS aka DEATH CHILL
Algor mortis: the cooling of a body after death. Algor mortis theoretically occurs at a rate of 1ºC/hour, assuming the decedent is an adult of normal weight and the ambient temperature is circa 20ºC. The rate of cooling is increased if the decedent is thin or malnourished, and if the environmental temperature is low and/or if it is windy. The rate is slower in the obese, in those who were febrile at the time of death or if the ambient temperature is high.
-Segen’s Medical Dictionary
Fitting, eh? Chortle!
🙂
Jimbo said:
February 17, 2014 at 3:47 pm
For the record I do not believe in aliens.
————
That’s okay – aliens believe in you!
/joke
We were once aliens. Damn it! This is getting silly with Mr. Al Bore.
@ Hunter (2:59pm) — Thanks for the great video clip — LOL. Well, they did get one thing right. “…the signals are earth-based.”
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Jimbo, re: your VERY GOOD COMMENT at 3:37pm (along with your good point at 3:46pm), just to reassure you, you write so well that despite the italics glitch (annoying as it was to you, I’m sure), it was quite clear that the last paragraph was your words.
I have been aware of this for some time. Maybe this will be the unraveling of E. Randi. He would have learned a hard and bitter lesson about scepticism and science.
Randi can start by looking at the rain and Michael Mann’s broken twig.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/19/treemometers-or-rain-gauges/
http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/ngeo2053
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/28/a-look-at-treemometers-and-tree-ring-growth/
I like the ‘Randi’ link. That was classic.
Hey!!! Leave us out of your planetary squabbles!
We thought about taking over the place, but this stuff about man being able to change the climate has us thinking you’re all a little too “out there” for us.
Your friendly local neighborhood undocumented space alien.
My default position is that climate change is real and happens all the time.
I don’t deny that climate change exists, because that is what the climate does.
I don’t deny that climate change is happening.
I don’t deny that there has been over 16 years of a surface temperature standstill.
I don’t deny that over 90% of the climate models failed to project the standstill.
I don’t deny that Antarctica sea ice extent has been trending up since 1979.
I don’t deny that winter snow extent has been trending up since 1967.
I don’t deny that Arctic sea ice extent and volume is about 50% up on Sept 2012.
There is a lot that I don’t deny. Maybe Randi should take up on Mann’s advice and starts
Randi may regret his lapse of scepticism. That is when he will renounce climate science and become very, very angry for being such an old, rotten brained fool. A sucker despite his attempts to debunk. This sort of thing can make a man lose the will to live. You devote much of your life to mocking suckers and yet YOU have been suckered. Sad really.
From the man himself:
And he learnt Portuguese and visited Brasil many times. !
OMG! They are on to us already 😎
Ahh now I see. Here is Al Gore and aliens.
http://youtu.be/UvgWY7Qkz_M
That reminds me, I must phone home.
If we can get aliens to fight Global Warming for us, I think it would be a good idea. Save me the bother.
@ Mark and his two cats — (re: 3:48pm and 3:49pm) — LOL.
@Oss Qss — neat vid clip. How do you find such precisely on-point ones? lol — thanks!
@ Jimbo…. Okay. I’d LIKE to listen to the humor about algore in that four plus minute video, but, 1) the intro. says its producer doesn’t think Neil Armstrong really walked on the moon and was either really bad at writing or was NOT being sarcastic, hence, credibility of nearly zero; and 2) after listening for over a minute to Mr. Cereal, no “aliens” mentioned… SO
WOULD YOU PLEASE TELL US THE APPROX. TIME AT WHICH TO VIEW THE ALIEN REMARK?
Thanks!
Kevin Kilty says: People who believe in UFOs are probably prone to believe in other magical conspiracy theories and so forth. They present a natural audience for Gore’s bloviating.”
Pretty arrogantly put, I’d say.Given that the evidence for UFO’s far outweighs the evidence for God, which is none and most people worship god, it seems that you have made some false conclusions. There are far too many unexplained sightings by experts, paintings from the middle ages and even earlier that point to more than *magical thinking* . You think that the NASA and Russian Cosmonauts were nuts or magical thinkers? The residents of Arizona who witnessed the Phoenix Lights years ago, including the governor and thousands around the country, including myself, who witnesses the same phenomena the same day? I’m not saying yea or nay but you cannot dismiss that whole population of UFO witnesses without sounding like a fool yourself.
That should be ‘witnessed’.
Here in the UK we have people studying CROP CIRCLES!
No – seriously, don’t laugh. There is plenty room for genuine belief in the absurd, so why should we expect folk to behave as though they all have a brain capable of differentiating between fact and fiction.
“For the record, I don’t believe in Aliens/UFO’s on Earth (with millions of cell phone cameras you’d think we’d have a decent picture by now)… ”
That’s true but I’ve read enough to be intrigued by it. Haven’t really come across anything definitive that would really convince me.
Maybe we are the original ETs? Look at we can do compared to rest of the species…
“Gore Enlists Extraterrestrials to fight Global Warming?”
Yeah, aliens are needed to do the jobs Americans won’t do.
/Emily Litella
Jimbo says:
February 17, 2014 at 3:37 pm
The ClimateReality Project poster says
“A blanket of climate warming gases like carbon dioxide can affect temperature as much as distance from the Sun. That’s why Venus is way hotter than Mercury!
Venus has 96% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 460 °C
Mars has 95.9% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = −55 °C
Earth has 0.4% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 15°C
===========================================================================
You forgot to mention that aside from composition, the mass of the atmospheres of the three planets is different and the more massive the atmosphere the warmer the planet.
Venus 4.8×10^20 kg
Earth 5.1×10^18 kg
Mars 2.5×10^16 kg
Let’s not be too hard on James Randi.
Randi (like a lot of us?) first thought that the “warming issue” was one of waste heat (not being familiar with greenhouse CO2), and felt that was bogus (as would anyone who ever tried to build an open campfire against a cold winter). Upon learning of CO2 as a greenhouse gas, he took that side. Later, he was doubtful of the greenhouse and said so, and took a lot of flak for that. Here is one of his responses on SWIFT (I don’t find the date, but it was at least 5 years ago). Note the word “denying” he uses.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/806-i-am-not-qdenyingq-anything.html
More recently he has remained in the general orbit of such as Phil Plait (“Bad Astronomer”), Bill Nye (“Science Guy”), David Suzuki, and Michio Kaku, etc. He is of course wrong to not embrace the CAGW skeptics within his own gathering of skeptics. But this transgression is pretty much singular.
In fairness, he deals with mostly totally wacky charlatans (on topics not allowed on this site either!), and they probably make the CAGW alarmists discretions, if noticed, seem moderate. Indeed, I don’t think a majority of the CAGW alarmists are intentionally deceptive (some are).
Randi is one of my heroes. Sadly, very very sadly, his CAGW stance is a deal-breaker for many of us.
Why didn’t they colonize during the Roman or MWP? You know, when it was warmer than it is now.
:Like all people James Randi is merely human. He is not an immaculate skeptic.
I stopped subscribing when he and his organization got fooled by AGW promoters, but I still admire much of the work he did before being hood winked.
uh oh, there is a kook getting all worked up about UFO’s posting under “David G”.
DNFTT
“For the record, I don’t believe in Aliens/UFO’s on Earth (with millions of cell phone cameras you’d think we’d have a decent picture by now)… ”
You should know that the Intergalactic Council quarantined earth and all non earth species are not to visit on pain that they are instantly laser-ed on return to (their) civilization.
Given a choice between believing in UFOs and Global Warming. UFOs win. Why? Because the chance of CAGW is known to be = 0.00000000% and UFO is unknown. /snark
Jimbo says:
February 17, 2014 at 3:37 pm
“Venus has 96% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 460 °C
Mars has 95.9% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = −55 °C
Earth has 0.4% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 15°C”
C’mon Jimbo, you know that is not an equal comparison.
hunter,
The argument against extra-terrestrial visitors from an advanced civilization requires a fairly sophisticated chain of reasoning, starting with the Drake equation, the Fermi paradox, the rate at which an advanced species could colonize the galaxy, and their motives for doing so.
DavidG may be wrong about UFOs, and his standard of evidence seems to be rather low. But he is right about one thing: UFOs are a more plausible story than deities.
Jimbo says:
February 17, 2014 at 4:30 pm
Ahh now I see. Here is Al Gore and aliens.
—————————————————–
Is that suggesting that ‘Al the Gore’ has been taken over by a symbiot life form, who now controls him? That makes sense in a scary way.
Thank God solar activity from current levels will continue to go down from hear on out. It’ll be 11 years before Sun spot activity gets back to higher than current levels. The man-made global warming zealots are going to learn a lesson they will never forget.
It’s the Sun Stupid!
Re: “C’mon Jimbo, you know that is not an equal comparison.” (Tom in Florida at 7:21pm today)
It may not be complete or “equal,” however, given this:
{Jimbo at 3:37pm today — emphasis mine}
— it is fair.
Jimbo’s point, that they cherry-picked Venus while ignoring Mars to promote speculation about human CO2, remains good argument.
**************************************************************
David G: “… evidence for UFO’s far outweighs the evidence for God, which is … .”
Janice: Everything, i.e., the earth, the seas, and all that lives in or on them. Somehow, these things came into being. I believe the most rational answer is that God made them.
Kharizimi: “UFOs are a more plausible story than deities.”
Janice: Who made the UFO’s? Who made the UFO-makers? You either believe in God or you do not.
If you do not,
then,
all you can rationally say to those questions (and the like) is:
I — don’t — know.
And that would be honest and I would respect your faith.
David and Kharizimi: WE AREN’T FAITH-BASED LIKE YOU ID PEOPLE!
Janice: (smile) Ah, think a moment… and you will realize that you, too, ultimately rely on faith, just as does someone who has faith that God is. Claiming that UFO’s (and then, that their makers) just — POOF! — appeared out of nothing from no guiding Intelligence at all takes an ENORMOUS amount of faith!
David and Kharizimi: Well, we despise your faith.
Janice: And I disagree with yours. But, I certainly do not despise you.
Pax? I hope so.
Here’s a funny cartoon of Gore in a straitjacket:
http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/zegs-take/2013/10/burning-mad/
With ridiculous claims like that from Al Gore I am sure the end is very, very near for the alarmists.
Stamp collectors see UFOs quite often.
They are puzzling, and it takes a lot of rarely seen catalogs to figure them out.
According to Myths there were once gods (extraterrestrials) here but they had to leave a few thousand years ago as it had warmed to much for them to live here. I guess that the Ecoloons want their gods to return. That would explain why they are in such a rush for the return of Ice Age conditions. 😉 pg
I cannot understand the logic!
1) As has been mentioned several times, the atmosphere of Venus is the same density as our oceans would be at a depth of 10 miles. I doubt very much if there was anything like the potential to release CO2 into our atmosphere.
2) On what basis does Gore think that aliens require more heat than we do? Exobiology is a unique science in that it has no specimens to research.
3) Unless these “aliens” have a Star Trek warp drive technology they could not travel through interstellar space in a reasonable time, because as their velocity increased, so would the shortening of waves of oncoming electromagnetic radiation, turning light, microwaves and radio waves into deadly X Rays and gamma rays, killing the occupants.
This moronic rubbish was trumpeted about two years ago(?) by some NASA “scientist” who was slapped down by his superiors.
To serve man…
Gawf! OK, let’s peg this sucker down:
1. We have a misanthrope
2. Who has a gigantic anthropocentrism complex
3. Who is now trying to co-opt space aliens … anyway?
What I wrote yesterday about aliens not liking anthropes was a joke Al, you did not have to take it so personally mate … ROFL … you is weird man … get a new hobby-horse mate, those aliens don;t mess about with the anal probes … or is that what this is all about? lol 😀
MattS says:
February 17, 2014 at 5:47 pm
You forgot to mention that aside from composition, the mass of the atmospheres of the three planets is different and the more massive the atmosphere the warmer the planet.
Venus 4.8×10^20 kg
Earth 5.1×10^18 kg
Mars 2.5×10^16 kg
>>>
I’m gonna be rash and say to someone who may know better, doesn’t pressure-density have anything to do with heat? It may be an accurate observation of the three numbers, but does it mean anything in dynamic terms?
If tropical Earth is ~20 C at sea level, and -45C at 45K ft, and warms from there upwards? How is planetary total atmospheric mass determining anything with regard to observed average heat?
MattN says:
February 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm
Why didn’t they colonize during the Roman or MWP? You know, when it was warmer than it is now.
>>>
We weren’t such engaging conversationalists back then and out pocket watches hadn’t been miniaturized so did not allow much for fashion sense, and frankly it all looks a bit weird anyway. But now we’re so powerful and smart that we can control the whole planet and make it do stuff, and we have cargo pants. Alien chicks go for that, just ask Al.
Jimbo says:
February 17, 2014 at 3:37 pm
…
Earth has 0.4% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 15°C
_______________________________________________
Is this correct? I thought it was 0.04%. I’ve been telling people “four cents out of a hundred bucks.” If I’ve got the decimal point in the wrong place, someone straighten me out before I make a worse fool out of myself! If this is the worst crisis ever to have faced mankind – or not – we need to try to get it right…
John from the EU says:
February 17, 2014 at 9:43 pm
With ridiculous claims like that from Al Gore I am sure the end is very, very near for the alarmists.
>>>
That may be John, but have you heard obama and the other git (the one in the UK PM’s chair, not the one in the Palace) over the past few days? The alarmists may be a decimated rump, but this is not really about science, not for them, it never has been for them, it started as a wacky fringe movement, and it will end the same way, or more likely shape-shift their ideas a bit. They already tried with the acid oceans that are rally alkali and also have a natural variability – like duh.
But when the only tool politicians and commonwealth science organizations and met-office heads have is a CAGW hammer, when referring to prosaic weather (and they now even admit it!) then they’re going to keep pounding an imaginary nail into a vacuum of no ideas, for some time to come. Same for the global sock-puppet script-reading ‘news’ media infestation (where do they get them from??)
So laughing at CAGW hammer-holders is the valid response.
“Aliens may destroy humanity to protect other civilisations, say scientists.”- The Guardian-Ian Semple, Friday, 19 August,2011.-
Rising greenhouse emissions could tip off aliens that we are a rapidly expanding threat, warns a report.
” when they see what a mess we’ve made of our planet, extraterrestrials may be forced to take drastic action”.
How can you parody this ?
Frank Kotler:
At February 18, 2014 at 12:39 am you rightly say of the Earth’s atmospheric CO2 concentration
Yes, you are right.
Jimbo made a typographical error.
It is easy to do, and I made the same error as recently as yesterday.
Many people – including me – have difficulty proof reading our own typing because we tend to ‘see’ what we intended to type and not what we did type. It seems that Jimbo shares that problem with me. It is why a ‘preview’ facility would be useful because the change to format may help with the proof reading.
Richard
Frank Kotler says:
February 18, 2014 at 12:39 am
Yes, Earth has 0.04% CO2 in its atmosphere, not 0.4%.
On Wikipedia I found the value 0.0397%.
Another way to show it would be ‘400 parts per 1,000,000’. Similar to the campaigning group called 350.org. 0.04% is a much better way to show this really, really tiny figure. Most people can get their heads round a % but a ‘part per million’ is almost alien…
Janice Moore says:
February 17, 2014 at 8:09 pm
Re: “C’mon Jimbo, you know that is not an equal comparison.” (Tom in Florida at 7:21pm today)
It may not be complete or “equal,” however, given this:
The ClimateReality Project poster says:
“A blanket of climate warming gases like carbon dioxide can affect temperature as much as distance from the Sun. That’s why Venus is way hotter than Mercury!“
{Jimbo at 3:37pm today — emphasis mine}
– it is fair.
========================================================================
The atmospheric density of Venus is ~65 kg/m3, Earth is 1.2 kg/m3 and Mars is .02kg/m3.
So JImbo’s point of comparing these planets % of Co2 vs temperature is not “fair”, nor equal.
It would be better and more useful to ask the AGWers to explain the failure of CO2 to keep deserts warm at night (as CO2 is supposed to be such a powerful climate warming gas).
I realized this yesterday while out in town. So it’s actually worse than we thought.
Matt I did briefly mention the atmosphere and pressure but wanted to keep my comment down.
Al is speaking in Kansas City sometime this week. I am considering protesting. Any good ideas for a sign?
My apologies for putting up the video, I actually couldn’t be bothered to listen! Sorry you wasted your time.
Tom in Florida says:
February 17, 2014 at 7:21 pm
‘
I know. That is why I put it up. Read what the ClimateReality Project poster said. I was using their own silly tactics. I did mention that THEY omitted atmosphere and pressure as well as Earth’s water vapor, the most important greenhouse gas according to the IPCC.
My mistake which I realised while out, but it merely strengthens my point of comparison between what the poster says and the ridiculousness of its claim does it not?
Tom in Florida, my point was to make a silly claim just like the poster from Gore’s project. It’s very close to Reductio ad absurdum.
Jimbo says:
February 18, 2014 at 6:52 am
“Tom in Florida, my point was to make a silly claim just like the poster from Gore’s project. It’s very close to Reductio ad absurdum.”
Got it. Usually I don’t miss the point, just getting old I guess. Or perhaps my tin foil hat that prevents alien control of my brain got in the way.
BTW, the aliens are already here, residing in peace in Arcadia, FL.
LET ME TRY AGAIN.
————————–
The ClimateReality Project poster rather unfairly says-
Let me ignore atmospheric pressure, thickness, Earth’s water vapour etc. and use their own line of argument.
Venus has 96% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 460 °C
Mars has 95.9% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = −55 °C
Earth has 0.04% Co2 in its atmosphere. Temperature = 15°C
As you can see using their line of argument is not fair. The Earth is not Venus. Blah, blah, blah, blah………….
—————————
VENUS ENVY. Well worth a read.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/05/08/venus-envy/
OK Tom in Florida , I posted then I saw your post. Thanks.
>For the record, I don’t believe in Aliens/UFO’s on Earth (with millions of cell phone cameras you’d think we’d have a decent picture by now)
Nor do I believe in Sasquatch / Yeti. Billions of hikers/hunters/campers on earth, and you’d think we’d have a swatch of hide or a tooth by now.
@John
“About 1 km down where it is a million millions of degrees.”
FTFY
Grrr… stupid HTML…
Humans are not rational beings. Why would aliens want to come to Earth, whatever the temperature?
Janice Moore.
I did not say that I despise your faith.
I simply agreed with David that a supernatural magical deity is less plausible than stories about material alien visitors that are (unlike deities) subject to the properties of the cosmos.
Did you know that when you add all the positive energy from E=MC^2 (matter, light & motion) to all the negative energy available from gravitation,
it all cancels out,
and you end up with a sum total of zero energy?
That’s what the entire universe is made from — nothing, or zero divided into positive and negative domains.
=====
“The matter of the universe is made out of positive energy. However, the matter is all attracting itself by gravity. Two pieces of matter that are close together have less energy than the same two pieces a long way apart, because you have to expend energy to separate them against the gravitational force that is pulling them together. Thus, in a sense, the gravitational field has negative energy. In the case of a universe that is approximately uniform in space, one can show that this negative gravitational energy exactly cancels the positive energy represented by matter. So the total energy of the universe is zero.”
– Stephen W. Hawking, Brief History of Time, p. 136.
= = = = = = = =
So I have nothing to explain, whereas you have to explain the origin of your deity.
🙂
Khwarizmi:
You can believe or not believe whatever you want. That is your God-given right.
But you have no right to demand that Ms Moore has to explain anything, especially when your demand is based on your – not her – ignorance. Despite that, at February 18, 2014 at 1:36 pm you say to her
Your ignorance of the meanings of eternity and infinity does not give you the right to demand that anybody “has to explain” them to you or to anybody else. And such matters are out of place in this forum.
The problem with many atheists is their desire to proselytise their religion while trying to delude themselves and others that atheism is not a belief of similar kind to deism.
Please have more respect for the beliefs of others and promote your religion elsewhere. Stating one’s beliefs on WUWT is often appropriate but WUWT is not the place for anybody to promote their religion to others: such promotion is divisive and pointless here.
Richard
richardscourtney says:
February 18, 2014 at 1:58 pm
1. I am not a believer.
I am anti-belief, pro-knowledge, pro-understanding and pro-evidence.
Faith is not part of my constitution.
Belief is a messy umbrella term that introduces mud into every conversation in which it is used.
The word “belief” is counterproductive to clarity and precision in communication.
Beliefs weave themselves into a person’s sense of identity, to the degree that a challenge to a belief often presents itself as a threat to the believer.
Belief is a bad idea:
http://nobeliefs.com/beliefs.htm
2. Your supernatural deity did not give me any “rights.” Stop proselytizing at me.
All of my rights were won by human beings, and enshrined in legislation by human beings.
Rosa Parks, for example, paracticed the art of civil disobedience by refusing to sit at the back of a bus, and it wasn’t a deity who said she had the “right” to do so.
There are no rights in the universe until an interpretive agent arises that demands them. In other words, “rights” are a social construct.
But Janice was evidently ignorant of the argument in which you get a universe from nothing, or she wouldn’t have said:
=====
Ah, think a moment… and you will realize that you, too, ultimately rely on faith, just as does someone who has faith that God is. Claiming that UFO’s (and then, that their makers) just — POOF! — appeared out of nothing from no guiding Intelligence at all takes an ENORMOUS amount of faith!
– Janice Moore
=====
And that’s what I was responding to, Richard.
It’s disingenuous of you to pretend that I was making a demand of Janice, when I was merely noting that if, on the false understanding that “something can’t come from nothing,” the existence of a universe is supposed to be evidence of a creative deity, then that deity (being “something,” afterall) also must require a causative explanation.
But of course, if you know that the universe is seething with the spontaneous creation and annihilation of virtual particle pairs, then you don’t have a something-from-nothing argument to support your faith-based deity hypothesis in the first place, and you will never get stuck in an infinite recursion loop of causation.
Interestingly, it didn’t bother you that Janice shoved words in my mouth that I didn’t actually utter.
=========
David and Kharizimi: Well, we despise your faith.
– Janice Moore
=========
Notice how she didn’t quote me?
Janice is often seen proselytizing around here (“I prayed for you!”), and it doesn’t bother me one bit. It apparently doesn’t bother you either.
But if an non-theist proudly defends his/her rational explanatory stance for a moment, your big nose gets put out of joint.
Obviously you have double standards.
Finally, your bombastic verbage about my alleged ignorance of the meaning of common terms is not worthy of a response.
If you will buy CAGW, as created by the magic gas.
You probably will buy Al’s other products.
Goron marketing?
Brad Rich says: @ February 18, 2014 at 11:28 am
Humans are not rational beings. Why would aliens want to come to Earth, whatever the temperature?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life down here.
I do not know if this fits in or where it should be so help me out here but I just saw this posted by JW on his site (? wunderground?)
The National Hurricane Center (NHC) announced last week that the hurricane season of 2013 had one more storm that should have been named–a short-lived low that developed south of the Azores during early December, which became a subtropical storm on December 5. “Should-Have-Been-Named-Subtropical-Storm-Nestor” reached top sustained winds of 45 mph. The storm formed over unusually cool waters of 22°C (72°F), and brought sustained 10-minute winds of 37 mph with a gust to 54 mph near 00 UTC December 7 to Santa Maria in the southeastern Azores. With this addition, the 2013 Atlantic season ended with 14 tropical and subtropical storms. Two, Ingrid and Humberto, became hurricanes, but neither became a major hurricane.
I am in no way an expert. But to me a gust of 54mph (single one as I read it) and 10-minute winds of 37mph is hardly any kind of a hurricane so why is this data being FU-d? I am seeing more and more of this in the regular media, the average person is totally unaware but to me (not a scientist) and a lot of other people very depended on weather it is becoming confusing, unsettling and scary. Why? Because decisions being made on this sort of misleading information can lead to commercial disasters.(And are subtropical storms soon to be called sub- sub,- sub tropical “storms” with 5mph “sustained” winds and “gusting” winds clocked at 7MPH?). Thanks, anybody can put this on any of the threads where it may fit!
richardscourtney says: @ February 18, 2014 at 1:58 pm
Khwarizmi:
You can believe or not believe whatever you want. That is your God-given right.
But you have no right to demand that Ms Moore has to explain anything….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I agree Richard. I am getting rather tired of all the Christian bashing and I am an Agnostic.
Why is picking on gays and the rest not politically correct but there is an open season on Christians and Sceptics?
A bit hypocritical if you ask me.
I need to ask a serious question. Is this for real, that is, is Gore this much a fool?
What worries me is that I actually believe that Gore could be that crazy.
Khwarizmi:
In your illogical atheist sermon at February 18, 2014 at 6:29 pm you say to me
Bollocks! The only double standards on display are yours!
If Janice – or anyone else – states her care for someone in her own way then only a narrow-minded bigot would find reason to object. There is no rational, ethical and/or moral reason to be bothered by it whether that care is expressed in a theist or an atheist manner.
Atheism is as rational – n.b. not more and not less rational – as theism. Both are beliefs about existence of a deity. Agnosticism is not a faith, but that is not what you are proclaiming. You are asserting the double standard that your faith is “rational” and Janice’s faith is not.
My “big nose” is “put out of joint” by religious proselytism on WUWT whomever does it. You did that and Janice did not.
Incidentally, and for amusement, you may have noticed that my family name is Courtney. This name derives from Norman French and is an insulting reference to the family nose. The original name was “Coure De Nez” (pronounced cor de nay) and is why the name is now still often spelled as Courtenay. Literally translated it means “short of nose” so – in my case – your assertion of a “big nose” is a complement.
Richard
Aliens don’t like the cold? Who knew? Smart aliens would just go someplace warm, like the Bahamas. Come to think of it, some “humans” do that. Hmmm…..
Kevin Kilty says:
“People who believe in UFOs are probably prone to believe in other magical conspiracy theories and so forth. They present a natural audience for Gore’s bloviating.”
Richard the religious kook with his double standards didn’t complain:
“Please have more respect for the beliefs of others and promote your anti-UFO religion elsewhere”
Nor did Gail Combs try to invoke taboo.
Because some whacky beliefs are more equal than others.
Because some whacky beliefs are more equal than others.
Because some whacky beliefs are more equal than others.
Because some whacky beliefs are more equal than others.
hunter says:
February 17, 2014 at 6:24 pm
“uh oh, there is a kook getting all worked up about UFO’s posting under “David G”.
DNFTT
Richard the hypocrit didn’t complain,
“”Please have more respect for the beliefs of others and promote your anti-UFO religion elsewhere”
And hunter didn’t say:
“uh oh, there is a kook getting all worked up about his magical daddy up in the sky posting under “richardscourtney”.
DNFTT
HYPOCRITES
Khwarizmi:
OK. So you have outed yourself with your post at February 19, 2014 at 12:28 pm.
You are not some fundamentalist crank trying to sell your atheist religion.
You are merely a bog standard troll trying to deflect the thread from its subject by attempting to equate people who post here as being akin to UFOologists.
The only hypocrite among those you list is you. All the others are honest in their statements whereas you are merely another anonymous troll to be ignored and/or ridiculed.
Richard
14 years ago on a science forum….
Confabulator (me)
There is a good argument against the existence of extra-terrestrial intelligent life, and it goes along the lines that if there was – they would already be here.
Or at least their Von-Neumanesque space probes would
==============
Frogman
Confabulator – The argument you put forward is of course invalid because it assumes that all intelligent life is more advanced that we are. We can’t reach other solar systems, maybe they can’t either. Maybe there are thousands of civilisations out there on a middle ages level of development.
The fact that they have not ‘contacted’ us does not mean they’re not there, it means that; a) They’re not interested in us, b) They don’t know we’re here (highly unlikely regerding the junk we’ve collected orbiting our planet, they’re bound to notice) or c) They are, at present, unable to ‘contact’ us.
==============
Falderal
I offer as examples d)Shy. e)Waiting for us to return their call. f) Afraid of us. g)Here, running the McDonalds chain. h)None of the above.
==============
Frogman
d) Possible
e) Unlikely, if they’re intelligent enough to know we’re here AND send us a message, they’re also intelligent enough to understand we didn’t notice their message and they’ll send another one.
f) Why would they be? If they can know for sure we’re here, their technology is probably superior to ours.
g) Very well possible! *LOL*
I think we basically agree that Confabulator’s argument “they’re not here, so they’re not there either” is invalid.
==============
Sir Rod
I figure universes could come and go a trillion times over with no life at all, so I figure in this universe, we’re it.
==============
Parity Boy
Wow, Rod, you really jerked that one out of your as*.
Plain and simple, it’s naive to think that we are the only intelligent life in the universe.
==============
Confabulator
Frogman: The argument you put forward is of course invalid because it assumes that all intelligent life is more advanced that we are.
Until we find evidence or detect some kind of definitive signal, we can only engage in statistical speculation. At present, SETI searches for a signal on the grounds that an intelligent form of life may exist that is also prepared to broadcast it’s whereabouts to the cosmos. This in itself might not be an intelligent thing to do. For argument’s sake, we can assume that they don’t intentionally broadcast, but they would face the same problems we do – upper bounds to the lifetime of a marginally stable biosphere suspended between runaway glaciation and greenhouse. We can also limit the argument to our own galaxy because of the time scales involved.
If we are talking about the kind of seriously intelligent beings that re-cognise a threat when they see one, they will develop von-Neumann machines (a self-reproducing universal constructor with intelligence comparable to the human level) and send them into space. “Such a machine combined with present-day rocket technology would make it possible to explore the Galaxy in less that 300 million years, for an initial investment less than the cost of operating a 10MW microwave beacon for several hundred years, as proposed in SETI. It is a deficiency in computer technology, not rocket technology, which prevents us from beginning the exploration of the Galaxy tomorrow.”
There is also the argument that silicon-based life must begin with carbon based life, but that’s for another thread.
Spitz: – The Drake equation calculates probability of intelligent life based on a) the probability that a given star system will have planets, b) the number of habitable planets in a solar system that has planets, c) the probability that life evolves on a habitable planet, d) the probability that intelligence evolves on a habitable planet, and e) the probability that an intelligent species will attempt interstellar communication within ~5 billion years after the formation of the planet on which it evolved.
To calculate a probability with a degree of confidence, we need a fairly large sample, but for c, d & e we have only one sample point – the Earth. If we do apply the principle of mediocrity to the equation, we come up the sort of figures you mention, and that’s only for the civilizations that exist at the moment – there would be countless more that were extinguished in the history of our galaxy.
Yet none of them recognised the threat to survival and did anything about it. If you accept that we can assume the intentions of an intelligent species, then the absence of von-Neumann machines should be reasonable evidence that their existence is extremely unlikely.
[ref: The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, Barrow & Tiippler, 1986]
=============
Inthe current faith-based NeoCon era, one no longer is required to engage in reasoning.
Just call them “kooks” and everyone will understand.
Khwarizmi says: @ February 19, 2014 at 12:28 pm
Nor did Gail Combs try to invoke taboo.
Because some whacky beliefs are more equal than others.
Because some whacky beliefs are more equal than others.
Because some whacky beliefs are more equal than others.
Because some whacky beliefs are more equal than others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
?
I guess the word whacky must be applied to Khwarizmi.
He also displays the inability to read or reason.
Richard Courtney a NeoCon?
ROTFLMAO!
What a classic example of an unthinking intolerant Gorebot.
Sorry if that appeared arrogant to you–certainty can come off that way. I’m pretty certain that UFOs are an impossibility. Also, UFO enthusiasts are very prone to conspiracy theories–the Roswell incident, Area 51, certain hangers at Wright-Patterson containing alien bodies, are among the dozens and dozens of myths that I might point to as proof. It’s easy, I imagine, to move individuals who consume conspiracies about the government, to then accept conspiracy theories about energy and the environment that involve “big oil”.
“Keep Earth Cool. Keep Aliens Out.”
Al Gore is just being Xenophobic. He wants to be the only alien on the planet.
[quote=”Khwarizmi”]
I am anti-belief, pro-knowledge, pro-understanding and pro-evidence.
…
http://nobeliefs.com/beliefs.htm
[/quote]
The problem with your position and the position of the link’s essay is quite simple. Not noticing knowledge requires belief.
The essay tried to claim knowledge doesn’t require belief: example:
—
Knowledge: Knowledge comes from awareness of the world, or understanding gained through experience. Although people may believe in what they know, knowledge has no requirement for belief (beliefs have no bilateral symmetry requirements). Examples: I may have knowledge of a story, poem or song, but I have no need to believe it. I know the rules of many games, but I do not believe in games. I know the mathematics of calculus, but I do not believe in calculus. I have knowledge of information, but I do not believe in information. I have direct knowledge of my existence through sensations, thought, and awareness, but I do not believe I exist: I know I exist (even though I may not know how I exist).
—
What is the flaw? Simple, he didn’t show knowledge doesn’t require belief. Why?
Look at this sentence:
“Knowledge requires belief.”
It means: If a persons has a knowledge (there is something she knows), she also must have a belief (there is something she believes)
In other words: If there is something a person knows, there is something (not necessarily grammatically equivalent to what she knows) this same person believes.
Examples:
I know a story -> I believe the story is real.
I know the rules of a game -> I believe the rules of a game are real.
I know the mathematics of calculus -> I believe the mathematics of calculus are SUCH.
I know an information -> I believe an information is available to myself.
It is very intuitive idea. Knowledge requires awareness. This awareness can be analyzed in two components:
The path that such awareness is available to you.
The kind of trust you put over such path. (the belief part)
If the path doesn’t exist, you can’t be aware. If you don’t trust the path, it is just something you recognize as an sort of illusion, not awareness.
[i truly apologize to the moderators for being 100% off-topic. I felt it was necessary.]
Gail Combs,
“Neoconservatism is a political ideology with origins in the Marxist Trotskyite movement… “
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
LOL! ROFL! Ridicule!
“Neoconservatism is a political ideology with origins in the Marxist Trotskyite movement”
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
Have a nice day, fellow human.
DanielG,
The problem with your position and the position of the link’s essay is quite simple. Not noticing knowledge requires belief.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Thanks for the metaphysical hogwash.
“Not noticing knowledge requires belief.” – say it over and over again, and it still won’t come true.
belief, .noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child’s belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief
“When I use a word”, said Humpty Dumpty in rather scornful tone, “it means whatever I choose it to mean, and not what the dictionary says. Infinity?…Well, that could mean ‘deity’ or even ‘have a nice day!’ “
=======================================================================
Perhaps you should try a little “belief”. Then maybe people could tell what the hell you’re talking about.
Or are you just talking about nothing?
A line from a song I heard, “One day nothin’ added nothin’ to nothin’ and nothin’ plus nothin’ equals Everything!”
Gunga Din:
In your post at February 19, 2014 at 7:25 pm you ask the troll posting as Khwarizmi
The troll is talking about nothing but is throwing insults, defamations and misrepresentations in all directions. It is throwing these verbal nail-bombs in hope of obtaining responses from its victims and, thus, deflecting the thread from its subject.
The troll has chosen religion as its subject of choice to deflect this thread.
Another troll has chosen to use politics and is successfully deflecting another WUWT thread.
The only appropriate responses to such trolls are to ignore them or to ridicule them because any other response assists them.
Richard
One more for the “warmlist” (it’s a tragedy they don’t update the list anymore)
“CAGW keeps aliens away”
So, I was the only person to present a rational argument against ET,
but merely because I agreed with DavidG that UFOs are more plausible stories than deities,
the shameless pack-hunting animals for skydaddy got upset and tried to enforce taboo.
GungaDin projected his juvenile dependence on belief onto everyone – but it isn’t true. Many people enjoy a belief-free life.
Believers just can’t tolerate cognitive diversity, intellectual curiosity, interpretive thrillseekers or the pursuit of explanatory fitness.
Charlemagne slaughtered 4500 human beings on one day for refusing to believe.
Everyone had to believe after that.
Beliefs – leave home without ’em.
==============================================================
Of course you are free to believe that if you wish.
(Sorry, Richard. I couldn’t resist. As Bugs Bunny would say, “What a maroon!”.8-)