We continue to find laughable errors in the state-by-state climate impact report released yesterday. Today we have this claim in the White House climate impact report for Georgia about coastline for the State of Georgia being threatened by sea level rise: (h/t Ryan Maue)
For comparison, California has 840 miles of coastline.
Map from NOAA US Tides and Currents website
According to the U.S. International Borders: Brief Facts”, by the Congressional Research Service, Table 3 lists the value for Georgia:
It took me about 20 seconds to locate this data. Georgia has 100 miles of coastline, not 707.
If you use the NOAA method, where they measure the outline of every estuary, inlet, peninsula, etc that touches water, we get a value for Georgia of 2344 miles:
Source: http://coastalmanagement.noaa.gov/mystate/ga.html
No matter which method you use, you can’t get 707 miles.
Add this to the list of laughable data claims already discovered, such as the claim that the president’s home state of Hawaii has 31 counties (it actually has 5), it seems to me that that the White House doesn’t know how to do basic research using a search engine.
Besides, Savannah, GA seems to not have disappeared in the face of its measured sea level rise:
Source: http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8670870
Surely it must be embarrassing for the White House that a “flat earther” blogger like me has to point these factual errors out to them.
They don’t have time for fact checking. They’re busy saving the world!
That explains a lot about the economic stimulus programs. A few zeros here and there quickly add up to real money and a few less to pretty much no jobs created at all.
The White House has a lot of things confused. Help them Lord. Thanks for the info.
aren’t these the same people that draft things like health care, government policy, foreign relations, etc
and no one can proof read
58 states…….I’ve toured 57, with one more to go
It’s not like the White House cares about facts. This certainly isn’t the first time. They’ll say anything to get their way.
obviously Gore “Million of Degrees” is still involved in WH “Greenie” stuff
Latitude @June 27, 2013 at 9:22 am
Proofreading is difficult and boring, especially if you attended government schools. Obviously, just assuming your boss can research and write ain’t cuttin’ it.
Actually, it’s not inaccurate to say Georgia’s coast line is 707 miles long, or even 1,707 miles long.
It all depends on how you measure it. 😉 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox
REPLY: OK, let’s claim a million miles and call it a day then 😉 – Anthony
Maybe they are using Mandelbrot techniques to determine the length of Georgia’s coastline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Long_Is_the_Coast_of_Britain%3F_Statistical_Self-Similarity_and_Fractional_Dimension
/snark
Welcome to the world of fractal dimensions, where the length of coastline between two points can be legitimately described as anything between the length of the geodesic and infinity. I’m not surprised they used that ambiguity to overstate GA coastline.
I am surprised that they did not assign a coastal length to AZ, based on model projections of SLR. 🙂
Georgia only has 100 miles of coast if you ignore all the islands. Cumberland Island alone has almost 50 miles of shore line.
This is within the error brackets that should be assigned to any White House statement. The only certainty is that the statement is wrong. What we don’t know is whether the error was intentional or not. It may not be a lie (and in this case I’m sure it isn’t). We just know that they don’t care about reality.
Oh yeah, that 57 state thing. He must have read that off a ketchup bottle: “57 varieties”.
“Carbon pollution is contributing to a higher risk of asthma attacks …”
CO2 is causing asthma attacks? How in the hell do they rationalize that?
Err – “Home state of Hawaii”. I thought it was Kenya.
Under the BS for Kentucky they worry about sea level rise. Maybe it comes all the way up the Mississippi and then turns east up the Ohio River. Good grief! Did any of these people ever take geography. I love the way for some states we should destroy the economy, have our electric bills skyrocket and be forever be beholden to OPEC because climate change may make ragweed bloom a few days earlier. I love the way they cherry pick data by picking a particular year for asthma numbers without any comparison to other years or an average. One of the funniest and most pitiful things the government has ever done.
Louisiana has 30 miles more coastline than Texas? I thought this was linear mileage?
And if a few, relatively minor, errors a lengthy report are enough to invalidate the entire report?
Could not the same statement be made about this very blog?
I reference yesterday’s blog post:
NOAA exaggerates 2012 Greenland Ice Mass Loss by 10x
Source: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/26/noaa-exaggerates-2012-greenland-ice-mass-loss/
In which, the guest author made a simple mathematical error – which they admitted – and thus his conclusions are inaccurate. Interestingly enough, the title of the blog post has not been corrected, even though it is blatantly wrong.
Should we hold this site to the same standards you apply?
REPLY: Show me where the White House has made ANY correction and you’d have a point. The guest author is preparing a correction, and people can plainly see the announced error at top. The only people that can’t see the correction are pouncers – Anthony
Tarran is correct, the coastline example was used by Mandelbrot to illustrate the concept of a fractional (fractal) dimension.
I just googled for “georgia coastline miles” and saw this:
That’s a lot of miles 😉
Anthony:
Like a modern journalist, you’re not supposed to do any fact-checking, just rewrite the summary of the report as accepted facts. The Ministry of Truth has spoken?
Who do you think you are, anyway?
~more soylent green!
The White House says “more than 85 metric tons of carbon pollution” . Huh? My daughters’ Ford wagon must emit that much in a year. They mean , surely, 85 gazillion tons.
daddyjames says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:49 am
And if a few, relatively minor, errors a lengthy report are enough to invalidate the entire report?
Could not the same statement be made about this very blog?
I reference yesterday’s blog post:
NOAA exaggerates 2012 Greenland Ice Mass Loss by 10x
Source: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/26/noaa-exaggerates-2012-greenland-ice-mass-loss/
In which, the guest author made a simple mathematical error – which they admitted – and thus his conclusions are inaccurate. Interestingly enough, the title of the blog post has not been corrected, even though it is blatantly wrong.
Should we hold this site to the same standards you apply?
We will be waiting for the Whitehouse and Obama to admit they made some errors in their reports. Tho I really wouldn’t advise holding your breath until they do. 😐
All 707 miles of Georgia’s coastline was at risk. Obviously 607 miles has been flooded, leaving only 100 miles to go. It’s worse than the White House thought!
Only 85 metric tons of carbon, huh? Boy, they’s gone whole-HAWG down there!
“Carbon pollution”?? He must be referring to graphite, diamonds, soot. No mention of carbon dioxide.
Well Janet Neapolitan is a whizz on miles of stuff.
Look how many miles of US-Mexico and US-Canada border fence she has built.
See what you flat earthers don’t understand, is that coastlines and border fences are fractal, and Janet is an expert on Mangleberg sets, so she has figured out how to sum the coastlines correctly.
Take just a single Florida beach on say Biscayne Bay. How would YOU like to have to sum the perimeters of all those sand grains on the beach at the waterline. And with sea level rising at a catastrophic rate, the number changes every time a new wave breaks. So actually Georgia has about 70,000 miles of coastline
So back off on poor Jan, she has an almost impossible task patrolling our borders.
Clearly they must be using the same system for measuring the coastline as they use for measuring sea level rise. ;-))
But Hawaii does have 31 counties – it’s just that 26 of them have been submerged by carbon-polluting AGW-caused sea level rise. But like the missing folks in President Obama’s Cook County, they may still be voting.
White House is saying Missouri can expect lake-effect snow.
It may be a fantasy, but it’s still driving policy – with horrendous results, if this continues.
But Hawaii does have 31 counties …
5 are in islands in the Pacific and the other 26 are in Africa!
tarran says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:29 am
Actually, it’s not inaccurate to say Georgia’s coast line is 707 miles long, or even 1,707 miles long.
It all depends on how you measure it. 😉 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox
#######
damn you beat me to it
Funny thing is, If you take the 2344 figure and multiply by 30% you get ………..
703.2
Perhaps the 707 figure is based on a 30% of total estimated linear mileage
“””””……JJ says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:45 am
“Carbon pollution is contributing to a higher risk of asthma attacks …”
CO2 is causing asthma attacks? How in the hell do they rationalize that?……””””””
Actually CO2 is more likely to be good medicine for Asthma folks (I are one), than being a cause.
An old Polynesian cure for drowning, was to hang the patient by his/er heels over a fire pit, with wet aBanama leaves, to quell the flame from the fire. The hanging itself, would drain the patient a bit, and the CO2 in the smoke, would trigger spontaneous breathing, to get the victim going again. Well the presumption was that the patient was on our side of course. If s/he was on the other side, we would save the leaves for next time, and have dinner instead.
When you try to hold your breath, and not exhale, it’s the CO2 accumulation in your lungs, that eventually forces you to exhale.
Hard to get accurate measures when you wrap that flat earth map around a globe.
This is exactly what happens when failed progressive ideology supercedes science. I just can’t wait for all of the fun we will have with the IRS running our health care system!
Then again, it might not be as bad as the EPA controlling your light switch and thermostat.
Where the hell has this once great country gone!
The CBS table of coastlines reproduced in this post omits WA.
According to Wikipedia WA has 157 miles of coastline, but this figure fails to include hundreds of miles of coastline along the Straits of Juan de Fuca and Georgia, Puget Sound, Hoods Canal, Wilipa and Greys Harbor Bays, and numerous salt water islands therein. All of this coastline is potentially vulnerable to rising sea levels.
The crap the comes from government is useless in most instances because the pols in charge get whatever they want.
“””””…..Latitude says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:22 am
aren’t these the same people that draft things like health care, government policy, foreign relations, etc
and no one can proof read
58 states…….I’ve toured 57, with one more to go…..”””””
Lemme guess; the one remaining State out of 58; that he had not visited was Hawaii ??
Hold on troops. I know a couple of people have mentioned this already but I think this is worth re-stating:
“In 2011, power plants and major industrial facilities in Georgia emitted more than 85 metric tonnes of carbon pollution…”
85.
Metric Tonnes.
Apparently that is more than the annual emissions of 18 million cars.
What are you all driving over there?
Hummm, just curious if anyone has done the math on this little $100,000,000 trip to Africa and the carbon footprint that is carried with the jets, carrier, 60 or so cars etc that our POTUS is taking with him. That has gotta be a pretty big number. Probably offset by the kids not being able to do a White house tour due to the cuts though — >SARC<
The smell of hypocrisy is overwhelming!
“…58 states…….I’ve toured 57, with one more to go…..”””””
I’d comment on the carbon footprint, but apparently with your cars…..
like arsenic and mercury pollution that we regulated
So no more “pollution” in our Coca Cola?
Tarran and Steven bring up some interesting questions. How are the other states measured? If Georgia is 707 miles, then California must be a lot more than 840 miles. Furthermore, are islands included in this measurement system? What about man-made extensions to the coastline? I think that the number was not a typo. I suspect that it must have been taken directly from a pamphlet prepared by an environmental advocacy group. It should not be too difficult to find the provenance to the 707 mile claim.
Try googling “707 miles of coastline” and see what you get: https://privatelee.qrobe.it/search/?q=%22707+miles+of+coastline%22&s=sbv2
I go to Georgia in August for some training. I better bring a life vest.
85.
Anyone…?
Federal guidelines set a maximum occupational exposure limit at 5,000 ppm as a time-weighted average for an eight-hour workday.
Other posters said the same thing, but you can measure coastline basically however you want to get any length you want. It’s not inaccurate, just a weird way of looking at it.
Coastline measurement methods aside I guess they don’t want to use Google. One can’t be careful enough. The White House staffers know who they are dealing with. Google would spy on them and give the data to the NSA that would spy some more and tell the President. And nobody wants him to have to say again:
“Uhhh…Uh…Uhhh…People!”
Why take the risk? The President’s groupies in the media won’t call them out anyway.
If you measure coastline using fractal math, it can be a lot bigger
We know the White House is arithmetically challenged.
When you believe that adding $9 trillion in deficit spending is “cutting the deficit in half”, you know that numeracy is not a strong suit of the current administration.
Ok, now I’m confused. Are we at war this week with EastAsia or Oceania?
hmiwindows says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:21 am
“The White House has a lot of things confused. Help them Lord… ”
don’t you mean ‘help us Lord”.
More lacking Google work, as pointed out by Pete Brown:
Okay, the mighty EPA’s own Website has the following:
A typical passenger vehicle emits about 5.1 metric tons of carbon
dioxide per year.
Source: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/climate/documents/420f11041.pdf
Doing the math, 18 million vehicles in a year emit 91.8 MILLION
metric tons per year.
And they’re worried about a measly 85 metric tons.
The innumeracy, it burns.
Erik Jacobs says, “Tarran and Steven bring up some interesting questions. How are the other states measured? If Georgia is 707 miles, then California must be a lot more than 840 miles. ”
Just look at a detailed map. California has mostly straight coastline — beaches. Georgia has few beaches. It is a maze of barrier islands and marshes.If you measure what makes sense in a political discussion (i.e., miles of shoreline that property owners care about), then I’m kind of suprised that Georiga doesn’t have a larger total than California.
How long is any coastline?
It depends on how long your ruler is.
If your ruler is very short, say 3 feet, the measure of a coastline would be much longer than if you measured it with a 1000 foot ruler. Especially if the coastline is crooked and full of rocks an features.
🙂
It’s close enough for government work!
“No matter which method you use, you can’t get 707 miles.”
That is a bold statement. There are a lot of correct answers to the question “how long is X coast?” until you know where 707 came from, I probably would have made such a claim.
george e. smith says:
June 27, 2013 at 10:34 am
“…An old Polynesian cure for drowning, was to hang the patient by his/er heels over a fire pit, with wet aBanama leaves, to quell the flame from the fire. The hanging itself, would drain the patient a bit, and the CO2 in the smoke, would trigger spontaneous breathing, to get the victim going again. Well the presumption was that the patient was on our side of course. If s/he was on the other side, we would save the leaves for next time, and have dinner instead…”
*
I really REALLY should stop drinking coffee when I read this site. Thanks, George, for starting my day with a laugh (it’s 4:35 a.m. in Australia). Shame about the monitor, shame about the wall… ah well.
As for coastlines and measurements… actually, it’s scary. Do they just pluck figures from the air? Sloppiness in an early grade school project I can understand, but in the professional world, no. The White House is supposed to be higher again… I guess not, huh?
If it has become acceptable to be this sloppy with facts and figures, it’s time to chase the kiddies out of office on all levels, and bring some responsibility back in. Who let those dang kids in, in the first place?
Just did some looking due to the Maryland post below and found this.
Coastline
1. Figures are lengths of general outline of seacoast. This does not include freshwater coastlines. Measurements are made with unit measure of 30 minutes of latitude on charts as near scale of 1:1,200,000 as possible. Coastline of bays and sounds is included to point where they narrow to width of unit measure, and distance across at such point is included.
Shoreline.
2. Figures were obtained in 1939–1940 with recording instrument on the largest-scale maps and charts then available. Shoreline of outer coast, offshore islands, sounds, bays, rivers, and creeks is included to head of tidewater, or to point where tidal waters narrow to width of 100 feet.
Source: Department of Commerce, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, National Ocean Service
Read more: Coastline of the United States | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001801.html#ixzz2XRcZrxpe
Read more: Coastline of the United States | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001801.html#ixzz2XRWdo3KN
Data? We don’t need no steenkin’ data. We make our own.
Montana just received a Tsunami warning, stay safe all you Montanans
Maybe Obama has gotten away with so many lies that he doesn’t bother to have anything checked.
Paul Westhaver says:
June 27, 2013 at 11:36 am
“How long is any coastline?
It depends on how long your ruler is.”
And on the fractal dimension of the coastline.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_dimension
Did you know that the CEO of Ryanair is an ardent anti AGW person.
http://iceagenow.info/2013/06/ryanair-ceo-blames-notion-global-warming-%e2%80%9cenvironmental-loonies%e2%80%9d/
This is the kind of person who could actually do something about stopping these loonies from spending our money on a non-event. Instead of constant rants and handwaving here (including myself ad priori of course), inst it time legal action was taken against these people eg FORCE Mann to release tax paid documents. Force NOAA, Met office, msn news etc to admit there is no warming publicly etc. Advertisements on MSM with Roy Spencer Epic Fail etc. Get the lawyers on to these people quick smart! LOL
If you use the NOAA method, where they measure the outline of every estuary, inlet, peninsula, etc that touches water, we get a value for Georgia of 2344 miles:
====
can Calif get 3427
Michael Bacigalupo says:
June 27, 2013 at 11:21 am
“Other posters said the same thing, but you can measure coastline basically however you want to get any length you want. It’s not inaccurate, just a weird way of looking at it.”
A straight coastline has the same length no matter how long your ruler is.
This is obviously an attempt by some of his advisers to help boost his legacy. Being recognized as a complete and utter fool is possibly the most charitable explanation for many of his actions.
In all fairness there could be 707 miles of coastline depending on the resolution and boundary definitions you use. It’s part of the coastline conundrum, They aren’t per-se wrong they just aren’t using official methodology and it is likely inconsistent on a state to state basis.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hummm, just curious if anyone has done the math on this little $100,000,000 trip to Africa and the carbon footprint that is carried with the jets, carrier, 60 or so cars etc that our POTUS is taking with him. That has gotta be a pretty big number. Probably offset by the kids not being able to do a White house tour due to the cuts though — >SARC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And that’s not even scratching the surface. The amount of assets the USAF commits to supporting one of the Presidential trips is staggering. Airlift galore, many tanker aircraft; and spare/backup aircraft, of course, as the King just can’t be inconvenienced, you know. It’s grossly wasteful.
The ‘facts ‘ mean nothing its all about the ‘message ‘ , so no matter how poor the data as long as the ‘message’ pushes the right button with right people everything is fine .
Coastline miles getting smaller is one of the effects consistent with global warming.
You way over-estimate the embarrassment potential of this particular White House.
If they can’t get the number of counties in Hawaii, or the coastline of Georgia right, how in the world can we expect them to have correct facts about carbon cycles, sea level rise, temperature anomalies, and other technical matters correct?
Well, I guess the answer is self evident…
This is a very very big story
Rudd is expected to dump the carbon tax
Has someone told that ejit president of yours yet? LOL
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/06/28/01/58/rudd-expected-to-dump-carbon-tax
Re previous its big because if he promises to he couldl probably win the next election (he is much more liked than Abbot) due to the simple fact that he abolishes the carbon tax
Of all the administrations I’ve observed in my 60+ years, this the most fact free one.
(and for NSA – Wounds my heart with a monotonous languor.)
How about the simple explanation? The 707 was an accident, due to writing that up while figuring which jet to charter for the next week-long “team building exercise” in Vegas. (And aren’t you glad they’re cutting back the expenses. Wow, that Sequester is really starting to hurt.)
“Hard to get accurate measures when you wrap that flat earth map around a globe.”
[Phil Jourdan 10:38 AM 6/27/13]
Well put.
So what fractal surface area of the earth is used in the climate models to calculate Boltzman radiation out?
Found a paper referencing 707 miles of Georgia that cited usgs as the source. The USGS link drops it as an excel file(broken up into small parts and I’m not adding that up but it looks about right) and an interactive flash map(working on an ipad, no dice)of about 22k-mile total US coastline. Used google to do it. Someone feel like checking the flash map or the data? Just google “Georgia coastline” “707 miles” and follow citation #14 from the map. EZPZ. But hey you guys knew that right? Because you figured out how to use google, yes?
REPLY: and it only took you how many hours of search (cuz your’re a troll on a mission)? When you are looking for the data, you don’t Google for specific numbers, you do it for the length of coastline. Strawman fail on your part.
For example: Go tell Wikipedia they are wrong on both counts – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_coastline
-Anthony
The typo of 85 tons of carbon per year from all of the power plants and industrial facilities is much more significant than the coastline number, particularly since you can legitimately find ways of measuring the fractal coastline to get the stated number. OTOH, missing a whole bunch of zeroes on emissions deserves an update to the headpost.
(and for NSA – Wounds my heart with a monotonous languor.)
[EW3 12:43 6/27/13 — WOW, even the name-time-date is a poem!]
D-Day IS coming, you Enviro-na-ah-tz-ees!
(I’m assuming you were referring to (not sure if French is correct, pardon): “Les sanglots longs des violons de l’automne. Blessent mon coeur d’une langueur monotone.”)
48 hours. You have now less than 48 hours until your latest verbal salvo is defeated, buried in a barrage of FACTS. Bwah, ha, ha, ha, haaaaaa!
Nice one, Allan (sp?). And, thanks (again), for your service (NOT in WWII — I mistakenly assumed that last time we “spoke”) protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States of America.
It seems that they are applying maximum of Mark Twain: “Get the facts first. You can distort them later”… just in reverse. 😛
…but if they’ve been assuming 707 miles of coastine, and the sea level rise is 2 metres in the next 35 years, squashing all that rise on to Georgia’s actual coastline will mean at least 14 metres of sea level rise.
I love the assumed non-sequiturs and false logic that runs rampant through this ‘report’.
CO2 == pollution & pollution causes Asthma > CO2 ( climate change ) is responsible for ALL cases of Asthma.
“How about the simple explanation?” [K.D. at 12:43] LOL, no doubt.
Perhaps, though, this is the simplest (when it comes to explaining anything “scientifically” – Dope in below video):
“… above my pay grade… “
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=%22above+my+pay+grade%22+Obama&view=detail&mid=518959B3119511012494518959B3119511012494&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR
They aren’t worried about facts. Neither is their intended audience. After all, 97% of the scientists agree and the debate is over because we don’t have no time for stinking skeptics. How would the White House know? I’m sure a very few of them took any science after the 8th grade and none of them took geography after about the 7th grade.
Bob Rogers says, “Just look at a detailed map. California has mostly straight coastline […]”
Yes and no. What about the San Francisco Bay? I’ve lived there. One wonders how an exact measurement of the salt flats and man-made extensions there might might be made, and how the necessary assumptions might affect the coastline metric in other ways if applied all along the coastline.
My main point was that what is good for Georgia is good for California. That is, if one assumes that the claim that the Georgia coastline is 707 miles long is not simply the result of sloppy copyediting, then at least two conclusions can be inferred: 1) the California Coastline is not 840 miles long and 2) that this idiosyncratic method for coastline measurement did not originate with the authors of the President’s climate “plan.”
I, for one, would like to know where the authors of the climate “plan” got that number. As I said before, I suspect that it was not a typo but rather just the result of a passage being lifted carelessly from an activist group’s pamphlet.
Ryan,
The link to the paper you mention is here:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsmartech.gatech.edu%2Fjspui%2Fbitstream%2F1853%2F42897%2F1%2Frestrepo_ana_c_201112_mast.pdf&ei=TaHMUcPCNJHS9ASOxYD4Ag&usg=AFQjCNEuG5HlNrbGZoGbUxN64hQMFKNbug&sig2=qYuX-SjE5qW_Jz_LhAF70w&bvm=bv.48572450,d.eWU
I expect there is a way to get a normal link out of that but I’m not figuring it out at the moment. Anyway, here is the link in citation [14]:
http://stateofthecoast.noaa.gov/vulnerability/welcome.html
It /does/ say that Georgia has 707 miles of coast. There is a “download” link on the page. The file has 1266 rows and a “sum_length” column with a values ranging up to about 100. I’m guessing it’s a list of counties, but the rows don’t seem to have any ID field. The file has the following source in it:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds68/htmldocs/data.htm
That page says you can download files with ” 1:2,000,000 shoreline at 3 minute resolution ” I didn’t bother to download the files, but I believe obtaining shoreline lengths is straight forward in ARC GIS and it is likely the GA Tech student who wrote the paper you found got that part right.
Erik Jacobs says, “Yes and no. What about the San Francisco Bay?”
Go to google Earth and look at the Bay at any given “eye altitude” Compare it to Savannah at the same altitude. There is far more coast in Savannah. Most of Georgia’s coast is similar, but large portions of California are relatively straight.
I think I have these at the same scale:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=31.930603,-80.971985&spn=0.312061,0.22934&t=m&z=12
http://goo.gl/maps/UzEID
Add this to the list of laughable data claims already discovered, such as the claim that the president’s home state of
HawaiiKenya has3147 counties…There. Fixed.
Maybe they used a tree ring to determine Georgia’s coastline back when the Midwest was an inland sea?
(I’m defending them because I’m trying real hard to get my name off “The List” ever since I used the word “Constitution” in a previous comment.)
What is with these Climate Change Obama advertisement banners they are EVERYWHERE all TV stations blogs etc must cost millions whose paying for it?
Zhorgon says:
June 27, 2013 at 10:14 am
“Carbon pollution”?? He must be referring to graphite, diamonds, soot. No mention of carbon dioxide.
Sorry guys, but Zhorgon is right. You are all confused.
Nobody said anything about carbon-dioxide, it is only about graphite, diamonds and maybe soot. Even if soot is a bit less carbon then the other two.
Wondering what is the proportion between the 3 in the pollution table? And since when are diamonds causing extreme weather?
In my various discussions with warmists, they do not know how to do simple google searches. For instance, once I suggested that it appears there is a 60 year climate cycle. The warmist asked for a url. I refused and suggested they simply do a google search, as I wasn’t going to spoon feed them. I bet if they did a search, but it was probably on what “spoon feed” meant.
“it is likely the GA Tech student who wrote the paper you found got that part right.”
My thoughts exactly. It would be an enormous coincidence otherwise. The vulnerability page also lists an odd in-between length for Virginia’s coast, so I think it’s obvious hat another, more-updated coastline measurement is in play. The question is: will the post be updated to reflect this?
REPLY: Why? we aren’t the one making the error. The White house could have used either the Congressional Research Service value or the NOAA more detailed value. Pulling values out of masters thesis doesn’t cut it. If I’d posted it and claimed it was 707 miles, people would be all over me. -Anthony
This thing was obviously cut and pasted together by Gvmt Interns. It’s a joke.
DD More says:
June 27, 2013 at 11:57 am
“Just did some looking due to the Maryland post below and found this. […]”
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001801.html#ixzz2XRWdo3KN
============================================================
Nice find, DD. I liked the two measures for Georgia; 100 miles for the general coastline and 2344 for the tidal coastline. Those numbers make sense to me.
“… Climate Change Obama advertisement banners they are EVERYWHERE… .” [Eliza]
Yes. Sickening, isn’t it? My guess is big windmill investors like T. Boone Pickens, creeps like Soros who just hate America just because and would love to destroy its economy, wealthy Cult of Climatology true-believers buying their way out of their guilt-complex or into hell or wherever it is they hope they go when they die. People like that, I would say.
****************************
LOL, Gunga Din, “tree rings” — good one. #[:)]
“We, the People of the United States of America… ” are against TYRANTS LIKE YOU, BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA.”
Just to be sure my name stays on “the list,” heh, heh — FOREVER.
Any American whose name is not on “the list” should be ashamed of themselves.
Don’t know whether anyone else mentioned it but I think the supposed asthma link is along these lines, from a recent USA Today artice:
“Climate change might be partly to blame. Scientists see a link to carbon dioxide, a heat-trapping greenhouse gas emitted by burning coal, oil and other fossil fuels. Tests show that the more CO2 in the atmosphere, the more plants generally grow and the more pollen they produce.”
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/30/climate-change-allergies-asthma/2163893/
Note that they nonchalantly link climate change to plant growth when the actual link is CO2 to plant growth, and oh by the way, increased plant growth is supposed to be a bad thing? Somehow I think the benefits of increased plant growth outweigh the drawbacks. The stupidity and/or dishonesty is infuriating.
Ryan posted a link which demonstrates that the “707 miles” metric was probably taken from a master’s thesis. Interesting.
I know from experience that factoids like that can slip past a thesis committee. It would be interesting to ask Ana Catalina Restrepo how she calculated the length of the Georgia coastline, and whether similar calculations had been done to other coastlines.
Since ANALYSIS OF STORM SURGE IMPACTS ON TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS IN THE GEORGIA COASTAL AREA (Georgia Tech, 2011) dealt exclusively with the Georgia coastline, it is reasonable to assume that the method used by Ms. Restrepo to arrive at that length was unique.
I live in Savannah, and the Corp of Engineers is going to dredge the Savannah River to a greater depth, increasing the depth of the shipping channel by 10 feet, from 40 feet deep to 50 feet deep. If AGW causes the ocean to rise by 2 meters, or about 6 feet, it will not matter in Savannah because we have already made room for the extra water by deepening the river by 10 feet.
If the Government can make stupid pronouncements and calculations, then the rest of us are entitled to the same privilege.
According to Obam there’s what? 57 States? Politicians couldn’t care less about facts. The refrain is: “The truth is what I say it is.” Also known as the Humpty Dumpty syndrome: “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
All 707 of Georgia’s 100 miles of coastline are at risk. I see nothing funny about this.
Actually, the fractallization of Georgia’s coastline is a pretty good metaphor for what alarmists have managed to do with the limited, cherry-picked data they do have. It’s appropriate.
Fractalized anthropogenic warming (global) = FAWG
DirkH…
Well done. That is exactly where i was going!.. I figured someone would pipe up and correctly state that the coast line length is infinity.
🙂
The errors by Obama probably won’t matter, just as All Gore’s errors in An Inconvenient Truth don’t seem to have mattered.
No laughing matter when the President lies and presents false data as he pushes forth an agenda that is not beneficial to the US’s economy while it also has no discernible impact on “climate change”.
“””””……Lars P. says:
June 27, 2013 at 1:55 pm
Zhorgon says:
June 27, 2013 at 10:14 am
“Carbon pollution”?? He must be referring to graphite, diamonds, soot. No mention of carbon dioxide……”
So why are Buckyballs, and grapheme, and nanotubes excluded from the Zhorgon list. Do you have some aversion to Buckyballs Mr. Zhorgon Any chance of mining those atmospheric diamonds ??
George
“Why? we aren’t the one making the error. The White house could have used either the Congressional Research Service value or the NOAA more detailed value. Pulling values out of masters thesis doesn’t cut it. If I’d posted it and claimed it was 707 miles, people would be all over me. -Anthony”
I wouldn’t. I would have said you were probably using a USGS number from the link above. Feel free to add up the GA numbers from that spreadsheet and prove Obama wrong…until then the WH used a legitimate number from an NOAA State of the Coast-Vulnerability report and got poked fun at for supposedly failing to google. But they didn’t fail at google. You did.
REPLY: Well I don’t see it that way. That number doesn’t exist at NOAA, and they are the government coastal authority Tell you what< I'll be happy to make an update if they fix their 31 counties in Hawaii claim, which was beyond stupid. Clearly they don't know what they are doing and I don't know why you’d be dumb enough to defend their sloppy cut and past hack. But, here you are. – Anthony
The White House i, unlike the Watts house, is evidently graced with folks able to read a map well enough to find that the missing 600 miles is the perihery of the the Georgia Sea Islands of cotton fame, from St.Simons and Jeckyll up through Skideaway ..
JJ says: @ June 27, 2013 at 9:45 am
“Carbon pollution is contributing to a higher risk of asthma attacks …”
CO2 is causing asthma attacks? How in the hell do they rationalize that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
They can not if they use science. See my comment REBUTTAL, ASTHMA
CO2 is literally a necessity for the proper function of the lungs and needed to maintain the proper blood pH.
Like oxygen and water, carbon dioxide is critical for human health. CO2 is one of the controls for our breathing. Carbon dioxide acts as a marker for breathing. When carbon dioxide levels reach a certain trigger point, the respiratory centre in our brain sends a message to the muscles used for breathing to take in more air…. Should the concentration of oxygen get too low, then carbon dioxide pressure will be ignored as a marker for breathing until the pressure of oxygen is raised to the normal range.
From Russia: bronchial asthma and CO2
Don’t expect the FDA under Obama to give this method its blessing though since it make CO2 out as the ‘Hero’ and it uses no drugs that can be sold at a profit.
A couple peer-reviewed papers A randomised controlled trial of the Buteyko technique as an adjunct to conventional management of asthma.
Effect of two breathing exercises (Buteyko and pranayama) in asthma: a randomised controlled trial.
This one is interesting. The Abstract states:
A curious critique of the study states:
Ah, yes another scientific cat fight, what fun.
“REPLY: Well I don’t see it that way. That number doesn’t exist at NOAA, and they are the government coastal authority […] – Anthony”
Anthony, this number appears to have been taken from a master’s thesis (ANALYSIS OF STORM SURGE IMPACTS ON TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS IN THE GEORGIA COASTAL AREA, Georgia Tech, 2011, page 10).
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsmartech.gatech.edu%2Fjspui%2Fbitstream%2F1853%2F42897%2F1%2Frestrepo_ana_c_201112_mast.pdf&ei=TaHMUcPCNJHS9ASOxYD4Ag&usg=AFQjCNEuG5HlNrbGZoGbUxN64hQMFKNbug&sig2=qYuX-SjE5qW_Jz_LhAF70w&bvm=bv.48572450,d.eWU
REPLY: yes, well aware. So what? Go tell that to Wikipedia. Go edit the numbers for Georgia where they cite NOAA, and watch how fast people change it back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_coastline – note the references.
Masters thesis bumped up to a NOAA alarm website doesn’t cut it. Sorry. I don’t buy the value for their sea level projection either. Anthony
Where is Alaska ??? We have near 5,580 coastline miles!
There is a technical difference between “general” coastline and “actual” coastline. Actual coastline is “how much land abuts the sea” and by that reading Georgia does have quite a lot of coastline compared to the geographical number. I still don’t believe it comes to 707 miles. Do be aware that most of the Georgian coastline is thriving wetlands!
Al Gore would defend the essential truthiness of this number.
From what I read Georgia’s coastline is made up of marshes, barrier islands, marshes, and swampy lowlands, as well as flat plains and low terraces. It is my understanding the areas like marshes have a dynamic response by rising with sea level rise through vertical accretion. Unless there is an acceleration in the rate of sea level rise there should not be a calamity.
On second thoughts HEAD FOR THE HILLS!!!
“The response of coastal marshes to sea-level rise: Survival or submergence?”
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/esp.3290200105/abstract
Gail Combs says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:53 pm
“What is the quintessence of Buteyko’s discovery? “Breathe less” is his advice because it helps to preserve essential carbon dioxide…”
You can’t breathe less. If you try to, pCO2 increases and you are forced by completely automatic mechanisms which sense CO2 concentrations, located in the 4th ventricle of the brain, to then breathe a little more to adjust pCO2 back to normal. Likewise your resting breathing rate, +/- the “tidal” volume inhaled, is completely automatic. Buteyko is trying to sell you his magic product.
And as I’ve mentioned before, if increased atmospheric CO2 concentrations causes asthma, then everyone would already have it! Because the normal concentration of CO2 in the lung’s airways and alveoli ranges between 40,000 and 56,000 ppm..
In the Wisconsin impact report, they were unable to correctly spell one of the four Wisconsin cities that they mention by name; it’s La Crosse, not Lacrosse. Attributing Lyme disease, ragweed pollen and asthma to “carbon pollution’ seems to be a common – and unsupported – theme.
Maybe the conversation went something like:
Staffer one “We need to make the numbers look like we know what we are talking about (giggle) so let’s not use 100 miles. Give me a figure that sounds more accurate.”
Staffer two “Why don’t we use 7, oh (pause), 7 miles”
Well it appears you did catch a factual error, well done!! Keeping your eye on the unimportant stuff and off the real issue he was talking about – ocean level rise. It is happening, and a little bit makes a lot of difference when a STORM SURGE moves in… but most people here are not going to listen to reason.
There was no conversation- The White House staffers all hate doing this nonsense so they spend zero time hunting out any sort of facts- Their bosses have written out all the grand details so they make it look nice and fill in some numbers in the missing spaces.
That’s why Barry failed university the first time, and probably why he refuses to release his transcripts… he is not too bright.
If you’re blogging for low information voters, having your facts straight isn’t such a big deal
“That number doesn’t exist at NOAA”
The Georgia report uses the same language as the vulnerability report on the SOTC link. Other states at the link(like the bannered Virginia stat) use a third metric for coastal length. The number is NOT taken from a masters thesis. They both got it from the same place, obviously.
REPLY: “same language”? meh, nice try, WH still wrong and so are you to go to such lengths to defend the WH sloppy garbage. Like I said, If I’d done it, you’d be all over it even though you claim you wouldn’t, your M.O. belies your intentions. – Anthony
RE: “We don’t have time for a meeting of the Flat Earth Society”, Obama said.
I don’t know about the rest of y’all, but that incompetent, arithmetic challenged, no-science slacker’s attempt to mock educated folks who legitimately reject the AGW fraud really frosts my gourds! I’ll stack my class grades and course transcripts from both my engineering degrees up against his chicken shite, choom gang slacker education any day! Any damn day, that is, that Our Dear Leader decides to actually disclose his college records from Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard. The day those records see daylight, from our “most transparent administration evah”, is the last day we will see arrogant swagger and hear ignorant smack talk from Our Dear Leader.
Perhaps we should use that as a coordinated skeptics rejoinder to his slander? Let’s see who the real flat earther, science Illiterati is! Show us your college records, Mr. Obama!
But if you took an average of the ensemble of the estimates of the shoreline, I bet it would be 706.99999999
Ellin Callvis says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:45 pm
Well it appears you did catch a factual error, well done!! Keeping your eye on the unimportant stuff and off the real issue he was talking about – ocean level rise. It is happening, and a little bit makes a lot of difference when a STORM SURGE moves in… but most people here are not going to listen to reason.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eh ?
“most people here” are well aware of the exact magnitude of sea level rise, and a high proportion of those are also highly cognisant of storm surges. In fact, I suspect that they know a hell of a lot more than your supercilious self.
Now if I were to ask “most people here” to connect the above, scientifically, with rising CO2 levels they wouldn’t be able to do it.
…. but please feel free to educate “most people here” Ellin. Statistically significant and fully referenced data only please, and no models.
tick tock, tick tock
Since the White House’s only audience are liberals, progessives or the gullibale uninformed or underinformed general public, facts are irrelevent and and unnessary bother.
Ellin Callvis says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:45 pm
Well it appears you did catch a factual error, well done!! Keeping your eye on the unimportant stuff and off the real issue he was talking about – ocean level rise. It is happening, and a little bit makes a lot of difference when a STORM SURGE moves in… but most people here are not going to listen to reason.
____________________________________________________________________________
Excellent,,,,, so we know how tectonics integrates with ice, temp, precipitation and last but not least, , , Sea levels?
I hope you are right. That would take a bunch of decision-making off the plate>
Ellin Callvis says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:45 pm
Well it appears you did catch a factual error, well done!! Keeping your eye on the unimportant stuff and off the real issue he was talking about – ocean level rise. It is happening, and a little bit makes a lot of difference when a STORM SURGE moves in… but most people here are not going to listen to reason.
When you have a storm surge of say…..3 feet, does another 2.5 mm really make a LOT OF DIFFERENCE? How’s the for “reason”.
Obama was completely incorrect in his climate fear rant especially regarding sea level rise. The issue is not whether sea level is rising but is the rate of sea level rise accelerating. Obama’s statement of “fact” as he put it that sea level is rising because of increasing greenhouse gases is wrong. Sea level has been rising at a regular pace for hundreds of years with this increase unrelated to greenhouse gas emissions. This is confirmed by reviewing NOAA tide gauge data covering the world with about 240 locations where records going back more than 100 years are available. This data clearly shows that global sea level rise is not accelerating. Those who claim as did Obama that sea level is rising because of greenhouse gas emissions are simply ignorant and confused.
Coastlines are fractal and the number one gets depends on the increment of measure and the psychology of what “coast line” means.
Nice that the territories and 49th and 50th States are ignored in your map and table.
All in all this is just a trivial game the Obama Regime is playing on the U.S.A. citizens, yet again.
‘Fact Check’ ? The Obama Regimes prides itself in fascist propaganda to increase its image in the U.S.A. public eye. Inconveniences such as ethics, law or morality are ignored if they do not exemplify the Obama Regime Supremacy.
Larry Hamlin says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:20 pm
Obama was completely incorrect in his climate fear rant especially regarding sea level rise. The issue is not whether sea level is rising but is the rate of sea level rise accelerating. Obama’s statement of “fact” as he put it that sea level is rising because of increasing greenhouse gases is wrong. Sea level has been rising at a regular pace for hundreds of years with this increase unrelated to greenhouse gas emissions. This is confirmed by reviewing NOAA tide gauge data covering the world with about 240 locations where records going back more than 100 years are available. This data clearly shows that global sea level rise is not accelerating. Those who claim as did Obama that sea level is rising because of greenhouse gas emissions are simply ignorant and confused.
____________________________________________________________________________
To supplement this post….
We have a Mid-Atlantic ridge, as one small example of unconsidered forcing, with respect to sea levels.
How does that impact net sea levels over time, and how fast ?
Not exactly a “near real time” Sat Ob, eh?
Think about it>
Ellin Callvis says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:45 pm
“… but most people here are not going to listen to reason.”
___________________
I’d reply to you, but have imposed a new rule upon myself of not responding to
stupid remarks fromtrollsMy wonderment is what fools voted for such a fool. The masses are truly stupid. Does not say much for attorneys as well. Another group similar to climatology…can’t get anything right, but sure know how to condescend.
Those who claim as did Obama that sea level is rising because of greenhouse gas emissions are simply ignorant and confused.
+++++++++++++
They could also be something that history is full of – lying, thieving frauds …
… aka modern Democrats
It is amazing that the former editor of the Harvard Law Review understands fact checking in such a non-traditional manner.
Georgia has 707 FURLONGS of coastline.
Your welcome.
Well, there are still many questions unanswered about the above incredibly flawed document, but one thing is clear. From the sheer quantity of mistakes we can know:
Dope wrote this one himself.
“Georgia has 707 FURLONGS of coastline.” [Sera]
O-kay, Sera. LOL. Thanks! #[:)]
Aaaand…. the “missing heat” is ….. 20,000 LEAGUES under the sea!
As one who has spent 60 years puttering around the back bays of NJ we know the shores are mostly marsh land except where man has filled in to build homes, Anyone who has done so would realize that if you count all the zigs and zags the miles of the shoreline with numerous small rivers that drain inland wetlands and pinelands, the measurement would vary considerably depending if you were doing it every inch, foot or mile. Also the marshes have thousands of small estuaries that feed into the bays and rivers. As suggested, infinity is possible (joke). One needs to define how the calculation is made, I assume NOAA has done that.
For the case in point where flooding is a concern it makes sense to consider a straight line method since the extent of the impact of significant sea rise (flooding) is not affected by the minor zigs and zags that increase the length of the shoreline. Of course if there is a large bay the extent of flooding would extend further inland affecting more land area. However the area affected by a narrow, long estuary would be small relative to its length.
100 miles sounds like the best number for Georgia if you are considering the impact of sea level rise. One cannot stupidly calculate a much larger number unless if makes sense in connection with the issue at hand (unless you are intentionally exaggerating the claim)
Glad Anthony, and likely many others, spotted this error on the Georgia coastline. I mentioned it in a comment yesterday — and was very pleased to see it picked up today.
Why do we allow government agencies to operate as fact-challenged organizations? Here’s NOAA saying Georgia has 2344 miles of “coast”. Certainly, this number was totally cooked up to support expanding funding (using our money) in order to further grow a less-than-essential, bloated, and biased government operation, wasting more money so as to expand some bureaucrats’ power. “Inland tier counties”? What the heck does that mean? Is there a national manager or staff for “inland tier counties” at NOAA charged with defining how much of their “coast” might be at risk of a potential tsunami event?
Now, go ahead and try to strip this funding away from these entrenched bureaucrats that produce nothing for the economy. The whining would (and is) deafening. Just look at what happend when simply the rate of growth in federal budgets was constrained under “sequestration”, not even the absolute value.
There is another Georgia, as any Beatle fan will tell you. Maybe if that coast is added to the USA one…..?
‘Err – “Home state of Hawaii”. I thought it was Kenya’ says some clever cloggs.
I think this is a great site but remarks like that do not do it favours.
Obama may well be a dim Democrat, but he was born in Hawaii of an American mother.
>>No matter which method you use, you
>>can’t get 707 miles.
You have to understand that your false claim that the coastline of Georgia is only 100 miles long, is based upon initial empirical data. That initial data then has to be rebased and synthesized, and then we have to devise a model that can replicate the shoreline distance.
And the model says it is 707 miles long, so that must be the correct figure.
/sarc
Trev says: June 27, 2013 at 11:46 pm
‘Err – “Home state of Hawaii”. I thought it was Kenya’ says some clever cloggs.
I think this is a great site but remarks like that do not do it favours.
Obama may well be a dim Democrat, but he was born in Hawaii of an American mother.
___________________________________
Oh, come on Trev, do lighten up, this particular thread is just a bit of fun. We all know the White House knows the true dimensions of the US, but you would have thought that they could get their facts right before going into print.
Its a bit like Obama admitting he is a Muslim rather than a Christian – you would have thought that he could get the story straight in his mind before going on air.
.
It’s worse than we thought!
If the models say it’s 707 miles then it’s right!
It’s interesting to see a few people scratching around to find any valid reference to 707 miles in order to prove that the White House is right – they’re obviously missing the point
Whatever the answer, it looks like the same due diligence has been carried out on this document as has been previously done on so many of “the team’s” dodgy temperature and sea level documents.
It’s the message not the facts that count.
When I read this nonsense I didn’t know whether to laugh, cry or explode in impotent rage.
How is it possible that in each State of the Union one can find one or more signatures of AGW?
Even the damned souls who run the IPCC hesitate to make such a claim for nasty weather events averaged across the entire world.
This is the same Government who could not even Edward Snowden’s name and passport number correct on an extradition request they sent to Hong Kong and yet blame others for letting him leave.
A coastline should be measured from beginning to end, by averaging curves into lines.. Similar to how a coast hwy is measured. Some units will be 33 miles, and others will be 12 – (or 5 etc.) dependent on how the coast curves. I think any (a) hwy that runs along a (any) coast is a good reference to realistic distance between the beginning and the end of a coastline.
That aint nothing, the government of Nova Scotia claims to have 8500 miles of coastline. I kid you not.
Team Obama always has a tough job in echoing their boss’s claims.
After all, his climate initiative is like so many other policy initiatives he works on:
-Kick things off with a speech where he mis-states the issues, insults those who disagree
-Makes grand, fact-deficient claims that over states the situation
-Proposes insanely expensive solutions to a tiny problem
-That happen to profit his insiders and pals
-Then leaves town on a vacation or goes and plays a bunch of golf
-Hides the fact that the so-called solutions are mostly pain and very little gain at best
-Imposes huge costs on Americans
-Does not work as planned
-Requires finding ways to either trick Congress by way of insanely big, deceptively written bills
-Or simply goes around Congress and the Courts by claiming the issue is too important, and he is too special, for the pesky rules to apply to him.
-And then take another long vacation.
With his team left to impose this mess on the people, how can they bothered with little details like accuracy and facts?
Well the lead guy (the big zero) said there are 57 states. Why should the rest of his admin. be any less accurate?
Well, I guess the race is on. Germany’s leaders vs America’s leaders. Who will win “Dumbest Leader of the World”?
It looks like the 707 mile figure comes from the NOAA State of the Coast page http://stateofthecoast.noaa.gov/vulnerability/welcome.html. I don’t know what methodology they used to calculate the distance though. As discussed above, almost any number can be justified, so the problem isn’t so much that it is wrong, but rather uncommon. This would be less of an issue if a source had been cited in the original document, or if other coastline distances were listed for context, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. From what I have seen so far (I have checked most but not all coastal states), Georgia is the only state with a coastline distance listed, so it is not intuitively obvious that an alternate (and less common) measuring method was used. Even more bizarre is the fact that even according to the data in the source website, Georgia does not, relative to other southeastern states, have an appreciably large portion of its coast in the high risk category. So why single it out? It just further reinforces the idea that a bunch of seemingly random and/or disconnected facts were thrown together.
Daddyjames asked if a few factual errors invalidates the entire report. Of course not! It just demonstrates ineptness, which is not a good quality to have in the fry cook at McDonalds, much less the President of the United States.
The lengthy report is not invalidated by a few factual errors. It is invalidated by the defining of CO2 as a pollutant and the assumption that it is the primary driver of global climate change. Compared to these two grossly wrong principle statements, the smaller factual errors become almost realistic, or at least inconsequential.
No good can come from this report.
None of you understand. There were 2344 miles of coast land in GA, but our man made global warming has already eradicated all but 707 miles. We have to do something soon… for the children… and the polar bears.
More seriously, how does NOAA distinguish a rising sea level from techtonic plates sinking and earth core shrinkage? Back before radiation had been discovered many geologists believed that a cooling planetary core was causing the earth to shrink over time giving rise to mountains. Now that we can include the radiation component the difference is much slower, but it seems that a slight cooling from a 1 part in 6.5 billion decline in radiation activity per year might significantly contribute to a 1 part in 6 billion change in the average ocean level.
Is this on track at all?
“Daniel P. Schrag, a geochemist who is the head of Harvard University’s Center for the Environment and a member of a presidential science panel that has helped advise the White House on climate change, said he hoped the presidential speech would mark a turning point in the national debate on climate change.
“Everybody is waiting for action,” he said. “The one thing the president really needs to do now is to begin the process of shutting down the conventional coal plants. Politically, the White House is hesitant to say they’re having a war on coal. On the other hand, a war on coal is exactly what’s needed.””
Skeptics need to focus on the politics of AGW in conjunction with having “facts” on their side. It’s that lack of coordination which has advanced the junk-science movement along the way. Another standard of professionalism (science) is now in a generational gutter in our society. Skeptics should stop showing deference and respect in their presentations. The average scientist supporting the AGW movement is either a political zealot and self-admitted liar where the ends have justified the means. The ends being a Green fascist reality in line with their NYTimes/academic left cultures.
It’s interesting to note there is little public interest in Obama’s dictatorial coal directives. Schrag while scientifically ludicrous understands the sociology of the current mob and their hatred of capital interests and coal in particular. Scientists are now willful mob leaders and have been for sometime. Skeptics observe it and comment on it abstractly instead of what is needed. This is how the new Soviet is being formed.
Savannah is in little danger of rising sea levels.
The City of Savannah is built on a 40-50’ high bluff above the Savannah River, about 8 miles from the Atlantic Ocean. Taking any of the routes east out of the city toward the barrier island one encounters the steep down-slope coming off the bluff. The bluff is also obvious at Factors’ Walk, which is a 4-story complex with offices at street level and warehouses at river level, and was originally built to serve cotton-shipping traffic on the River.
Facts are stubborn things – but they are routinely ignored by this administration (abomination), by today’s press, and by our sheep-like/sleep-walking electorate.
will someone please inform Mr. Obama of the benefits verified from his “carbon pollution” in a continent called Africa, for example, specifically the greening of savannas (poor chitas, I know, and poor elephants dizimated by man and formerly responsible for the vegetation behaving)
http://stateofthecoast.noaa.gov/vulnerability/
There’s the link. You can grab the data from the link at the bottom of the map. Georgia coast comes in right around 700 miles. So the “Obama number” or “White House number” or whatever you want to call it is from NOAA. It’s not wrong, it’s not a mistake, it’s not a failure to google at all. It’s one of a set of accepted numbers for the lenth of Georgia’s coast. There’s also a couple other floating out there besides the 100 miles and the 2,344 miles.
“REPLY: and it only took you how many hours of search (cuz your’re a troll on a mission)? When you are looking for the data, you don’t Google for specific numbers, you do it for the length of coastline. Strawman fail on your part.
For example: Go tell Wikipedia they are wrong on both counts – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_coastline
-Anthony”
To find it took about 10-15 minutes. Verifying that the 707 number comes from NOAA(or at least from the same source as NOAA, maybe USGS) took about 20 minutes because I did it on an ipad. When you’re looking for a specific value for a measurement that has an infinite number of correct values, you look for the value. I’m not suggesting that any of the numbers are wrong. You are the one telling your readers that the 707 number is a mistake when it clearly is not. Boasting about how the White House can’t use google when the error is yours is pretty funny, but I don’t think it really serves your reader’s interests. My only ” mission” here is to correct your obvious error so that people have good information going forward.
REPLY: Yeah sure, whatever. It doesn’t exist other than on a website designed to promote false alarm about sea level rise with a front page cherry picked highest rate number, “3.17 100-year projected local sea level rise (in feet) at Eugene Island, LA, the highest projected in the U.S.” which they don’t even give a unit for (I assume it is feet).
But that’s OK by your reasoning apparently, since it supports your views. The two accepted values, by the Congressional Research Service, and by the NOAA#2 method are established numbers. The 707 figure is an oddball. I’ll stick with the established values, thanks. The WH could have used an established value, but is seems clear they’d prefer to use a value that is inline with their alarmist view of sea level.
I’ll believe your stated “mission” when I see you lobbying the WH to fix all the other errors in these reports, such as the number of counties in Hawaii. But, I doubt you will, because you apparently believe the WH disinformation goal hook line and sinker. Your complaint is noted, but the established values stand. – Anthony
By way of an example of how “studies are conducted” i share this with you. I know an engineer who was part of the Carter Era mobile underground ICBM program. There was this pretty report on underground tracks that these transporters and their missiles would follow – and on command, stop at pre-determined points and launch their missiles. How did they come up with the locations? By placing rubber bands on maps and drawing ellipses with them. The engineers knew the proposals were not feasible and put as much effort into them as was warranted. I’m betting the “true believers” who built this report either took the lazy mans way out, were so rushed to meet the policy announcement, that they just threw something together.
Here is how a Virtual Tsunami Event might happen in Montana: In those years where GHG-driven extreme-weather patterns have caused unprecedented flooding in the Missouri-Mississippi river system, Fort Peck Dam might be breached as a consequence of a simultaneously-occurring 8.9 Richter Scale earthquake — causing the huge reservoir behind the dam to empty into the Missouri River, wiping out everything in its path in an event not unlike the Glacial Lake Missoula flood of fifteen thousand years ago. Predictably, the entire blame for this disaster would be assigned solely to the Republicans in Congress for blocking action on climate change.
“The WH could have used an established value.”
There’s no such thing as an “established value” for coastline measurements, lol. Like i said above there are more than just three values out there. The misquote about Hawaiian counties is from a USDA press release. I’m sure it will be corrected in time. But the difference is that the WH isn’t blabbing all over the net about how Anthony Watts can’t count counties. You are doing exactly that with coastal measurements, and it just makes everyone familiar with geography chuckle at you wading into another field where you don’t belong.
The WH used the value that came along with their %-threatened data. It would be silly to do otherwise.
Recently, Obama tweeted saying AGW skeptics are “deniers.” Besides being a crude and rude ad hominem attack it also shows he and his science advisers are very poorly informed about AGW. One of the most sophisticated and reasonable AGW proponents is Fred Pearce, who publishes often in New Scientist. He says that calling skeptics of AGW “deniers” is “foolish fundamentalism.”
-Pearce, F. Foolish fundamentalism. Available from: http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/10/warmist-fred-pearce-are-many-reasons.html accessed 10/3/2011.
“REPLY: Yeah sure, whatever.” [A-th-y in 8:30AM post]
GO, A-TH-Y! #[:)]
LOL. I think we know now who wrote that document! Poor ol’ Ryan is defending that piece of junk like his job depends on it.
Ryan, when you mess up (such as on that document), don’t stand up and wave your hands and stomp around and yell and tell everyone they are so stupid. LOL, it only makes it worse.
To excuse is to admit [responsibility].
george e. smith says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:33 pm
So why are Buckyballs, and grapheme, and nanotubes excluded from the Zhorgon list. Do you have some aversion to Buckyballs Mr. Zhorgon Any chance of mining those atmospheric diamonds ??
Well no, anything that is carbon as it was mentioned.
Carbon dioxide is not carbon. It contains about as much carbon in percentage as a tree does. It is a gas essential for life and does not cause asthma.
I like it when things are named by name as what they are.
Janice Moore says:
June 27, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Thank you Janice. Your spelling was spot on.
Regards,
Al (who has trouble spelling Allen , err Alan, err Alyn, err.. Allan, OK that’s it ! )
One thing I feel bad about is I think in ending the draft we ended an important institution.
Even Elvis got drafted. It was a melting pot of people.
It also meant we had a skin in the survival of out Country. A concept now very limited in society.
BTW – Was a Vietnam War volunteer (USN River Rats)
EW3 (Al) — when you look into the mirror (or, if you can’t see, PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK, SAILOR!), that’s one fine man looking back at you. You are why America is a great nation. You loved your country enough to volunteer. We are so blessed to have had (and still do!) men and women like you, willing to lay down their lives “for a friend.”
**********************
River Rats, eh? I suppose you saw the back side of that super-rat John Kerry as he swiftly skidaddled away for his Christmas vacation. Must have been extra hard for you to watch that creep on TV in 2004.
I see what you mean about the draft, and yet, I wonder. I wonder if it is best to have an enthusiastic, motivated, volunteer U.S. Armed Forces. The draft worked when the average man loved his country and could be relied upon to work hard. Now, thinking of the indoctrinated, “we are the world,” teens (the earth hasn’t warmed in their entire LIFETIMES and yet they believe it has — headshake), I’m not so sure.
On the other hand, a two-year hitch in the U.S. Navy might be just the thing to make men out of those perpetual wii-playing (how can they stand to even say what they are doing!!), googling, twittering, pot-smoking, yutes.
The above should be a “point” in an enumerated list of Obama’s errors, to be published in the WSJ or Forbes. Another one is the idea that contrarians are denying that the temperature HAS risen and that CO2 has something to do with it–which we aren’t. Going forward, we don’t see much increase, because of the saturation of the CO2 absorbency spectrum. Obama has been misled by alarmist propaganda that INSINUATES those things. He doesn’t know what we really believe–just the caricature of it that the other side has fed him.
Other blunders are his “hottest 12 years in the last 15″ bad inference (which doesn’t disprove that the warming has stopped rising, contrary to predictions), his hottest year on record” in 2012 (not mentioning only in the US), and his attribution of weather events to AGW.
The title should be “Peeling Back the Onion” maybe.
PS: Four more points to object to:
Calling opponents deniers and flat-erathers. That just indicates he’s swallowed the caricature that contrarians don’t believe the earth has warmed or that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas.
Calling CO2 “carbon”–another debater’s trick intended to insinuate a falsehood.
Calling CO2 “pollution”, which connotes something poisonous, which it isn’t. If it were pollution, Coca Cola would have to be banned.
Saying in effect that We Must Act. If “We” doesn’t include Asia, acting will be futile feel-goodery.
Stephan Mosher & Tarran June 27, 10:33am\
Tarran — It all depends on how you measure it.
Mosher — Damn, you beat me to it.
So, of course, all the coastlines for all the states are being measured by one means? Obviously not. They must keep switching the means of measurement as they do each individual state. No standard of measurement. Obviously a climate scientist created these numbers for them.
Or maybe they had a measurement model that they used. They factored in the expansion of coastlines caused by increased CO2. warming.
Or perhaps when they went and got the original data they looked at the dates the measurements were taken. Those before a certain date were adjusted down. Those after the same date were all adjusted up.
Ok, we are all having some fun with this which is perfectly all right. After all, CO2 is the new laughing gas.
Eugene WR Gallun
“… Or maybe they had a measurement model…
CO2 is the new laughing gas.” [Eugene Gallun]
LOL. #[:)]
Here’s some “data” from the 1960’s that PROVES CO2 levels were quite high then.
Heh, heh, actually, it’s some of us WUWT commenters after re-reading a few of our beloved trolls’ hilarious attempts to defend the CAGW models.
I think my all-time favorite (so far) is: “Konrad says ‘blah, blah, blah.” by S.W. (don’t want to summon him by using his name!) LOL.
Al Gore’s center of the earth being millions of degrees hot is another one. The Whitehouse might need some type of cosmic radiation shielding to cut down on this craziness.
“… center of the earth being millions of degrees hot … .” [Gary Pearse 7:09PM]
Laugh. Out. Loud.
No mention in this report of by what means the US president intends to electrify Africa. If the energy sources be green, then the continent is doomed to remain dark, I’m afraid.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/30/world/africa/south-africa-obama-pledge/index.html
Re: Virtual Tsunami in Montana. A dam collapse leads to a flood (perhaps of tsunami-like proportions) not a tsunami. However, a wave in the impounded water, generated by a seismic event, is a tsunami. Should the tsunami then collapse the dam there would be a tsunami caused flood, where separating the flood extent from the tsunami extent would be difficult (and moot).