Jim Lakely, Heartland’s communications director, takes Daniel Souweine of the TV meteorologist hassling group Fabricate Forecast the Facts to task in this piece on the Heartland blog:
Reports of Heartland’s Demise Are Greatly Exaggerated
By Jim Lakely
Yesterday, the boss addressed an article in a recent edition of The Economist reporting wishing for the downfall of The Heartland Institute. Definitely check it out — especially for the part in which the esteemed international publication acknowledged Heartland’s important and influential position in the climate debate.
On the heels of that Economist story came a piece at the Huffington Post by Daniel Souweine, the campaign director for Forecast The Facts — a recently cooked-up astroturf outfit that has engaged in a social media and letter-writing campaign against some of Heartland’s corporate donors.
The title of Souweine’s piece is, “The People-Power-Inflicted Downfall of Heartland.” Hate to break it to you, Dan, but there is no “downfall.” While you and your leftist activist buddies have been exchanging high fives and taking a “victory” lap, Heartland has been keepin’ on keepin’ on — and better than ever.
Below is what I wrote in the comment section below Souweine’s piece. The response to my dousing of rain on their parade brought predictably lame counter-comments — which have added amusement to my weekend. Anyway, on to what I wrote:
The big trouble with your piece, Daniel, is that its overall theme – that Heartland is in “decline” and has brought about its own “downfall” – is simply not true. Or, to borrow from Mark Twain: Reports of Heartland’s demise are greatly exaggerated.
As Mr. Bast explains in his blog post, the idea Heartland lost nearly $1 million in donations is false: “Most of the donors who have said they won’t continue to support us have agreed to fund new or existing groups that will continue our work; some already contributed this year before their announcements; and others had indicated they would not fund us even before the billboard controversy. We have now raised considerably more from current and new donors than we may have lost due to the controversy.”
So not only is Heartland not “down” a net $1 million, Heartland is not even at a net “zero” after spinning off its dedicated insurance projects. We’re up in funds, overall. Heartland has already doubled the number of individual donors since Peter Gleick’s Fakegate scandal, and we expect that number to continue to rise steeply throughout 2012.
In short, exactly the opposite of what leftist activists intended – let alone claim to have achieved – has actually occurred. If you think 2012 marks the “demise” of The Heartland Institute, I suggest you check back with us in five, 10 or 20 years. We’ll still be here, fighting for smaller government, individual liberty and free markets – just as we have for the last 28 years.
And I’m betting Forecast the Facts won’t exist anymore in three years. Any takers?
We might have more to say about this, and in greater detail, at a later date. But know this: The leftist “victory” over Heartland is all in their heads.
If you’d like to make a tax-deductible donatation to The Heartland Institute, visit this site.
what goes around, comes around
Way to go Heartland…..
Kudos to Heartland. Perhaps they can find out why Alberta’s new premier Allison Redford is meeting with the Bilderberg Group. Albertans should be nervous about this. Especially since the MSM has been mute on this meeting. Hmmmm, …
Thanks, Andi. I’ve chuckled privately at the “victory laps” Heartland haters have taken in the last few weeks. The ignorant and self-congratulatory high-fives were hilarious, but ridiculous.
This week, Joe and I decided it was time to take the private chuckles public. The joke’s on them. Hundreds attended our latest climate conference. Just 25 protesters showed up across the street from the hotel — but I could be over-counting with police, photographers and ICCC7 attendees (including me) over there. Hundreds more watched our conference live online, and nearly 10,000 people from every continent have viewed the videos at our conference video page (so far).
If you’re interested in checking out the science we presented, the link is below:
http://climateconferences.heartland.org/
Ofcourse the “high fiving” will turn into rage as well as frustration, as their AGW “heroes” are taken down one by one and demonstrated what liars and dishonest individuals they really are. They will not win this argument even though they have tried every way possible to try and discredit everyone involved in the “questioners” corner..
“And I’m betting Forecast the Facts won’t exist anymore in three years”
What, is Soros going to give up? FTF will likely continue their tirade as long as they continue to get paid.
forcast the facts has a very short shelf life. no bet.
it goes into decline when the funding stops after the Rio debacle
but the country is already far into decline.
the economy is in very rapid decline for over a decade and headed down.
at a certain point, nobody will be donating to anybody because the only charity they can afford has to stay at home – as it always should- notwithstanding just how cheap talk is.
so all activist organizations are on the same path to extinction.
they aren’t an industry that contributes to the gdp, are they?
the world will not suffer for lack of them.
If you’re up for some punchy fun, head over to HuffPost and read those comments — and perhaps consider a comment of your own. Of course, such action would give Daniel Souweine more traffic than he deserves — and WAY LESS than Anthony gets on his slowest day (I expect this thread at WUWT to have more comments) — but it still might be worth it. Just for fun. Your call.
I don’t care about the mindless comments about me. It bounces right off my well-scarred back. But some of HuffPost’s lefty commenters think they know the science. They don’t, of course … so fight ignorance! That’s what WUWT does every day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-souweine/heartland-institute-gm_b_1557552.html
I was one of the ones who sat on the fence on the vote. I was unsure of either negative or positive repercussions, although I was sure of Heartland’s motives. I now applaud the minority who, against the grain said “Good on ya mate!”. Although I cannot count myself among those insightful enough, I do count myself among those who can say, “Ahh… Just so…”
Further, I would add this: All those of you who adopted the moral high ground (Including the logic-guru Donna Laframboise) take note: All is fair in love and war. Heartland have shown clearly that immoral fire CAN be fought with moral fire.
We are in a war. It is time to put your life(style) on the line. Defend each other, be safe, eliminate enemy attacks, move forward towards the goal and regain enemy-held territory. Global warming is, after all, one of the many wedges used to subvert and undermine our freedoms.
This vote of financial confidence in Heartland is enough to show that the little guy can stand up and be worthy of being counted.
Heartland, you go where angels fear to tread. Keep it up guys n gals.
“And I’m betting Forecast the Facts won’t exist anymore in three years. Any takers?”
==========
Does this mean they are not “too big to fail”, or has the game changed again ?
Glenn says:
June 2, 2012 at 9:55 pm
“What, is Soros going to give up?
At 81, this ex Hitler Youth member is rapidly closing on the average life expectancy of 82.6 years (for a country with a per capita GDP of 48,100) Unless he has some secret sauce up his sleeve, I don’t think he is going to be a perpetual threat. His nefarious organizations will live on, but it’s only a matter of time before they too will have to pony up and pay Charon. This fate awaits us all, I would rather spend my time enjoying life rather than hating other people and society in general, but that’s what gets them off.. so be it.
@Mike Jowsey: Your kind words will be shared at the Heartland HQ.
Heartland has RUSH LIMBAUGH IDIS…. each time they are impugned those that impugned ended up with egg on their faces… shoot, Harry Reid even got over a millions dollars in donations for the wounded soldiers fund (course Rush had some fun with the letter) the same Reid that called our troops baby killers and rapists…
Its nice to see our side (so to speak) stand up and take them to task…
We need to see more of this light shined where lies are king…b
Jim, can you put those videos on Youtube. makes it easier to put them on forums and open discussions.
My support goes to the Heartland Institute and its members.
Over the past couple months, I’ve seen personal and ourageous attacks being directed towards it, and yet you have always responded logically, and rationally, and armed with an array of facts. You guys have more patience then me, and I’ve been married!
Being the sceptic that I am, I have never donated to an organization before in my life. You, however, are the real deal. Congrats on being the first I donate to. It is well deserved.
Am I a conspiracy theorist? No. Do I recognize the politicalization of science (a.k.a. the cause)? Yup.
Jim Lakely says:
June 2, 2012 at 10:12 pm
If you’re up for some punchy fun,…………
=================
Take it somewhere else.
Cheerleading and gloating, doesn’t play here.
Thank goodness. The u.k.(us) police are here to monitor Anthony’s blog for him. I think misinterpreting all the while.
@Grey Lensman
We have them queued up. Should be live next week. But the vids at climateconferences.heartland.org are share-able.
Jim
I wonder how all those people Forecast the Facts tricked into harassing people will feel when they realize they were tricked by the Gore/Hansen/Mann/Jones climate criminals?
Will they turn on the whole greenie thing?
Thanks
JK
u.k.(us) says:
June 2, 2012 at 11:26 pm
Take it somewhere else.
Cheerleading and gloating, doesn’t play here.
And you were appointed moderator when exactly?
u.k.(us) says:
June 2, 2012 at 11:26 pm
Jim Lakely says:
June 2, 2012 at 10:12 pm
If you’re up for some punchy fun,…………
=================
Take it somewhere else.
Cheerleading and gloating, doesn’t play here.
Plays pretty well with me mate. By the way, U.K. (US) – why don’t you post under your real name? Too scared????
@Mike Jowsey – Totally agree.
If the net effect of the billboard campaign has been to increase donors and donations, time to start another billboard campaign.
“We do have to think up new ways to get the message across, and some of them will have to fit on a billboard over a highway.”
http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/what-im-going-to-say-will-upset-a-few-people/
Pointman
Jim
Glad things worked out OK for Heartland (although the Unabomber poster could have been much better.)
Who cares what Unabomber thinks about anything?
But what about:-
Robert Mugabe
Fidel Castro
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Evo Morales
Hugo Chavez
Miliband+Cameron+Clegg (if you want to branch out to the UK)
Julia Gillard (ditto OZ)
and of course your very own Al Gore.
Very well documented thermageddonist statements from them all.
Several have had standing ovations at the big alarmist bunfights.
So the greenies would have difficulty in criticising posters featuring these creeps as unfair.
But I suspect that American public opinion might not entirely chime with the greenies’ views on these particular ‘heroes’!
Worth a try?
u.k.(us) says (June 2, 2012 at 11:26 pm): “Take it somewhere else.
Cheerleading and gloating, doesn’t play here.”
I liked it. Good news to me.
Wow,
sorry all, just a bad mood I guess.
Please proceed.
[Reply: Good for you! Everyone has a bad day now and then. ~dbs, mod.]
This could be big
http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2012/6/our-planet-saving-science-lobbyist-the-integrity-of-the-australian-academy-of-science
That’s cool and all but they’re still a bunch of neo-cons.
I’m with non-partisanship.
Jim Lakely says:
June 2, 2012 at 10:12 pm
If you’re up for some punchy fun, head over to HuffPost and read those comments — and perhaps consider a comment of your own. Of course, such action would give Daniel Souweine more traffic than he deserves — and WAY LESS than Anthony gets on his slowest day (I expect this thread at WUWT to have more comments) — but it still might be worth it. Just for fun. Your call.
Living in UK I don’t see HuffPuff very much, which is fine by me. I put them in a similar category to the Grauniad, although not as good at it! I won’t even think of writing to or blogging at HuffPuff. Waste of space!
Their transgression was minor. However, they should resist further appeals to emotion. This tactic cannot effectively be exploited by both sides in an endogenous conflict (irrespective of the funding source). Good luck, Heartland.
Time is the liars worst enemy. Time is what proves liars and false prophets for what they really are. Time is also the honest persons best friend and that is why organizations founded on truth survive for long, even for 2000 years. The US constitution has seen 200+ years, OTOH, Communism in the Soviet Union managed 70 years. Nazism a decade give or take a year. Socialism, another big lie, is having it’s greatest fall ever in the EU and possibly it’s brief experiment in Obama’s USA.
On the science front (or is it political?), AGW, a big scientific lie at par with alchemy is having a Humpty Dumpty sort of great fall and is breaking up into smithereens in such a way that no kings’ or presidents and their horses will be able to bring together again.
Heartland is, IMHO, is in the truth category and until it remains so it will have its raison d’etre.
I just wanted to thank Smokey for Heartland t-shirts and Fakegate mug!
Awesome!
Mike Jowsey says:
June 2, 2012 at 11:59 pm
.”…….Too scared????”
===============
Good question.
Scared ?, yes.
Not sure if I should thank you for your concern, or to tell you to take a flying f##k..
I will assume it is the latter.
I’m afraid that, – arch sceptic though I am – I found the billboard adverts in very bad taste, and could see little moral superiority over the 10:10 video or the ‘we know where you live’ memo.
I thoroughly disliked all of them. It is a great shame that after Fakegate firmly established the mendacity of the alarmists, Heartland descended so quickly into the same gutter.
If I had ever been tempted to contribute to Heartland, I have completely beaten that tendency.
Hi Jim
Sounds like it has turned into a full blown political battle now, and the science left behind (courtesy, of Gleick, etc). ie scientists will have to choose side, or just not speak (not speaking is my concern)
This is perhaos a sign of nearing the endgame, ie stakes raised ever higher, then collapse.
Sadly, this was probably inevitable in the USA.ie with issue divided across political lines aswell, in the UK all parties believed in AGW, and now have to deal with the consequences of energy policy, thus oddly the ‘climate’ is better for sceptics.. ie Labour Graham Springer CAN be sceptical alongside Conservative Lord Lawson).. and sceptics (and sceptical scientists) and scientists cand and do have civil chats.. whilst the political falls apart..
ie gas power stations just defined as green (otherwise the lights might go out) and even new coal plants might get built, with a token gesture towards, some sort of CCS.
And of course when the Eurozone collapses in finacial chaos (Spain is on the edge, contagion next) all thoughts of emissions will be forgotten
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9307106/Spain-is-in-total-emergency-the-EU-in-total-denial.html .
Mike Jowsey says: June 2, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Pretty well seconded here, Mike.
Jim Lakely, I wonder if you would consider doing an article on the conference and the presentations? I added Ilarionov’s 2010 presentation to my page on UHI, and regard his work as really important in helping to flag up the still-under-compensated UHI factors – which then allow the “homogenized” data to still be used though I regard this fundamental of Climate Science as still suspect. It was only by chance I found Ilarionov.
Fakegate certainly was an inspiration to us in Scotland to get something going.
Where do we get the fakegate mug?
Latimer Alder says:
June 3, 2012 at 1:24 am
I’m afraid that, – arch sceptic though I am – I found the billboard adverts in very bad taste, and could see little moral superiority over the 10:10 video or the ‘we know where you live’ memo.
I thoroughly disliked all of them. It is a great shame that after Fakegate firmly established the mendacity of the alarmists, Heartland descended so quickly into the same gutter.
Latimer, I as well thought the billboard counter-productive PR. Heartland has a better handle on whether it actually was. As to descending into the alarmists’ gutter, let’s distinguish between a factually accurate billboard on the one hand and criminal activity on the other.
u.k.(us) says:
June 3, 2012 at 12:57 am
Scared ?, yes.
=======================
That’s cool. I think we are all a little scared of the future. It’s healthy.
“Jim Lakely, I wonder if you would consider doing an article on the conference and the presentations?”
Great idea, Lucy! I saw and found the Sebastian Luning presentation (about an hour) to be a tour de force. However, I’d love to get more of a sense for the content and spirit of the conference as a whole — without having to invest the time and energy to actually view it all. Maybe with a better sense for it, WUWTers will have a better idea which specific presentations to view.
Latimer Alder says:
June 3, 2012 at 1:24 am
I’m afraid that, – arch sceptic though I am – I found the billboard adverts in very bad taste, and could see little moral superiority over the 10:10 video or the ‘we know where you live’ memo.
I thoroughly disliked all of them. It is a great shame that after Fakegate firmly established the mendacity of the alarmists, Heartland descended so quickly into the same gutter.
If I had ever been tempted to contribute to Heartland, I have completely beaten that tendency.
==============
I thought it a very neat way of holding up a mirror to the alarmist propaganda tactics.
I began watching a Monckton talk on tv last night, but gave up when the satellite feed kept breaking up. Of what I did hear one point particularly lends itself to a billboard campaign – the “science consensus” is one scientist the IPCC drafted in to change the real consensus of the scientists putting together that report. Santer the puppet took out the real scientist consensus conclusions and the some 200 mentions of in the body of the report supporting the conclusions, and hey presto, Anthropogenic Global Warming was born. The Science Consensus is a Consensus of One Scientist and His Fraud.
Without that change there would have been no need for the IPCC to continue to exist..
Here, just found this: http://larouchepac.com/node/12823
LAROUCHEPAC:
Green Fascism..IPCC’s Santer Admits Fraud
December 18, 2009 • 9:16AM
Ben Santer, a climate researcher and lead IPCC author of Chapter 8 of the 1995 IPCC Working Group I Report, admitted last night on Jesse Ventura’s Conspiracy Theory national TV show, that he had deleted sections of the IPCC chapter which stated that humans were not responsible for climate change. Accusing Santer of altering opinions in the IPCC report that disagreed with the man-made thesis behind climate change, Lord Monckton told the program, “In comes Santer and re-writes it for them, after the scientists have sent in their finalized draft, and that finalized draft said at five different places, there is no discernable human effect on global temperature — I’ve seen a copy of this — Santer went through, crossed out all of those, and substituted a new conclusion, and this has been the official conclusion ever since.”
He’s admitted it.
@ Pointman -totally agree with your linked article.
Neil says
H’mmm …not sure that I want to get into a debate about moral relativism. I found all of it – on both sides – distasteful and unpleasant. You do not win a war of ideas by chasing your opponent down the slippery slope. You let him destroy himself by showing his true colours not by gratuitously giving him powerful ammunition to fight back with.
as Shakespeare very nearly said.
Jim Lakely,
Based on what I saw this May in Chicago at my first attendance at a HI sponsored ICCC (#7), you have increased my confidence in HI from medium to high.
Although I supported HI’s billboard experience right from the very first WUWT post about it, I think you need to expand much more on the discussion of the philosophical roots of irrationalism in ‘scientific’ alarmism. At your next ICCC conference I suggest several panels in the area of irrationalism vs. reason in the philosophy of science. I volunteer to support you in doing so.
John
“At 81, this ex Hitler Youth member is rapidly closing on the average life expectancy of 82.6 years”
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but live expectancy conditional on being alive and healthy (?) at age 81 is much higher than 1.6 years. I would guess it is more like 10.
James
Myrrh says:
June 3, 2012 at 4:22 am
“…”
__________________
They may have printed the truth of Santer’s actions, but as far as I’m concerned, anything connected with l***pac is highly suspect and it is a travesty that you brought that name into these pages.
Never gave to them before. But since I know that they funded some of your work and that they are under attack by the looney tunes set, They got something from me. The clincher is that Barrie Harrop thinks they are a “hornet’s nest”. If Barrie is for it, I am against it in general.
I agree with Mike Jowsey as well, to a point (6/2/12 10:23 pm). We are in a kind of warfare about “the truth” and “the scientific method”. However, the billboard was not smart; it used a certifiably psychotic (sociopath) as its headliner. Better to use officials in positions of power who are using “cooked data” and “lying language” as the examples (hidden sociopaths), one billnostf every week or two weeks. Billboard those who want to eliminate human beings and end opportunity, prosperity, and the developed world. This would be taking the moral high ground and counterpundching twice as hard. I could even see a fund set up so that the billboards could be smart, punchy, scientifically exact, and numerous. Headliners for what Heartland stands for. Thanks for the conference, the live streaming,and all the efforts. If anyone has time to write a summary, that would be very much appreciated.
This is sort a sampler of ICCC7:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/05/31/sorry-global-warming-alarmists-the-earth-is-cooling/2/
neil,
Thanks for the link. It is a good summary of current climate status and what went on at the HI conference.
Latimer Alder says:
June 3, 2012 at 1:24 am
I’m afraid that, – arch sceptic though I am – I found the billboard adverts in very bad taste, and could see little moral superiority over the 10:10 video or the ‘we know where you live’ memo.
=============================================================
Latimer, I think a distinction between the billboard ad and the “10:10 and we know where you live” pieces need to be made.
In the 10:10 and many other ads and opinions (tattoos, re-education camps, etc….), these are not-so-thinly veiled threats against skeptics. These are thoughts and exhortations of maniacal people…… much like Ted Kaczynski.
Heartlands billboard only points out the parallels. It contains no threats, nor does it fantasize about violence against alarmists.
Now, I understand how people can be squeamish about this. Confronting monsters is always a difficult task. It shatters the belief in the common good of mankind. It shakes one’s faith. It’s very disconcerting to understand the depths of depravity a fellow human being can have.
Some have argued that alarmists haven’t acted upon their dark fantasies, and so the billboard isn’t an apt comparison. But, that argument only comes from people who are not yet prepared to look into the abyss. Upon inspection, we see that the argument that they haven’t acted on their fantasies is simply not true. http://suyts.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/these-animals-are-committing-crimes-against-humanity/ and http://suyts.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/by-their-fruit-you-will-recognize-them/
I think it’s time we all took off our rose colored glasses and see reality.
This whole scenario reminds me of a song “Clam Chowder” out of Maryland sung…..
Perhaps this should become Mann’s theme song.
I will leave it at that. Find the rest at: http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=7067
Jim Lakely says:
June 2, 2012 at 10:12 pm
If you’re up for some punchy fun, head over to HuffPost
============================================
Lol, Jim, HuffPo actively engages in suppression and censorship of opposing views. I’ve gone through no less than 4 accounts on HuffPo. They keep deleting them. So, I wish I could, but, …….
James Sexton says:
June 3, 2012 at 8:25 am
“I think it’s time we all took off our rose colored glasses and see reality.”
Of course warmists see the entire biosphere as threatened and wished there would be less humans. I have ample supply of real life warmist conversation partners here in Germany. That being said, they see themselves as the good ones; they only want the best for everyone. They are “evil” in the same way the government in Atlas Shrugged or the real life Obama administration is; trying to save everyone with regulations and prohibition of what they see as negative.
The results are everywhere to be marveled at; the imploding economies of Ireland, Portugal or Spain, to no small part caused by misdirecting massive amounts of capital into gigantomanic green energy projects. Less in total amount than in Germany, but these economies were much smaller to begin with.
Just two days ago a warmist woman I happen to know, when asked what she thinks about the threat to the polar bears in antarctica (yes I did ask it that way, she’s a biology techer, I wanted to see how she would react), responded that every species is threatened and that we should build only zero energy houses. I asked: “So you want to deprive poorer people of the possibility of owning a house” and she just didn’t understand the problem.
They’re well-intentioned but generally so dumb that they’re just making a mess of everything they get to touch.
So never let them touch anything and you’re fine.
DirkH says:
June 3, 2012 at 9:27 am
They’re well-intentioned but generally so dumb that they’re just making a mess of everything they get to touch.
So never let them touch anything and you’re fine.
=============================================
Yes, the sheep are easily duped. I don’t believe all are so well-intentioned, but they all see themselves as working for the greater good.
James Sexton says:
June 3, 2012 at 9:43 am
“Yes, the sheep are easily duped. I don’t believe all are so well-intentioned, but they all see themselves as working for the greater good.”
I meant the fanboys and girls. Some at the top have other motives or instructions.
Hansen earns NASA 1.2 billion USD in Global Warming money a year (and himself a million with book sales and prices from European monarchies and breweries and whatnot).
http://notrickszone.com/2012/04/12/nasa-abdalatis-response-to-50-esteemed-professionals-is-managerial-negligence-an-embarrassment/#comment-92515
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/FY12-climate-fs.pdf
James Sexton says:
June 3, 2012 at 9:43 am
Yes, the sheep are easily duped. I don’t believe all are so well-intentioned, but they all see themselves as working for the greater good.
= = = = = = =
James Sexton & DirkH,
I suggest the sheeplike people who follow the ideologically anti-human cult of environmentalists feel guilty of being modern, affluent humans. The important question is what intellectual/philosophical trend in modern civilization created the guilt in those sheeplike people and more fundamentally why did they become such sheeplike people in today’s more secular civilizations?
John
John Whitman says:
June 3, 2012 at 10:04 am
I suggest the sheeplike people who follow the ideologically anti-human cult of environmentalists feel guilty of being modern, affluent humans. The important question is what intellectual/philosophical trend in modern civilization created the guilt in those sheeplike people and more fundamentally why did they become such sheeplike people in today’s more secular civilizations?
John
========================================
John, that’s a great question. I’m sure my answer will have people in fundamental disagreement with me, but your question lends to the answer. “….. in today’s more secular civilizations”.
My answer…… Relative morality and the replacement of traditional religion with a quasi-religion which worships and values objects over humanity.(air, water, trees…) A “golden calf” as it were. It also creates a devil from inanimate objects such as coal and oil, and that devil’s instrument of use, humanity.
When people have no foundations to set upon, they are easily swayed by the winds of opinion and can come to believe the most absurd posits. And, we all know where that leads…… (Voltaire.)
James Sexton says
‘I think it’s time we all took off our rose colored glasses and see reality’
I don’t think I am wearing any rose-coloured and I share your dislike of the warmist mantra and the warmist agenda. I am a consistent critic of them both as my musings over the years will show.
But I don’t believe that you will persuade the vast middle ground of people who are undecided one way or another about ‘climate change’ (and may not care very much), by simply indulging in a street fight with both sides screaming about how bad the other guys are. I think that tactic just repels a lot of people and leads to general apathy. ‘A plague on both your houses’ as I remarked earlier (with a little help from an oldtime playwright).
It is much more productive to make your case by showing that you have something positive to say, not just abusing your opponents. Heartland cocked it up badly IMO.
Latimer Alder says:
June 3, 2012 at 10:33 am
James Sexton says
‘I think it’s time we all took off our rose colored glasses and see reality’
I don’t think I am wearing any rose-coloured and I share your dislike of the warmist mantra and the warmist agenda. I am a consistent critic of them both as my musings over the years will show..
==================================================
Latimer, I’m sorry about the choice of words. That statement wasn’t directed towards you, but the skeptical community in general.
But, this is the dilemma. When is it inappropriate to point out the parallels of monstrosity? Maybe some in the skeptical community are unaware of the entirely dehumanizing abuses which are occurring around the globe. In my view, the billboard didn’t go far enough. (But, how much information can one place on a billboard?) The facts are, alarmist advocacy has killed more people than Kaczynski. Much of the rationale for both actions are exactly the same. Both wish to halt the advancement of humanity.
I don’t think it is productive to pretend people around the world aren’t being displaced, murdered, their home burnt down, forced mass sterilizations being perpetrated, and more….. all in the name of global warming advocacy. I think these things need to be pointed out and confronted. I think the billboard presented the opportunity to have a dialogue about such things, but we’re wasting it because it is unseemly for some people. Take care to look into the abyss, but, look we must.
Click here for just a few examples of what we’re really fighting.
The climate discussion has moved from the hypothetical intellectual exercise. These maniacs are pursuing and perpetrating some of the most vile acts in crimes against humanity. Aren’t we bound to point these things out?
@james sexton
Maybe we’ll just have to agree to differ. Maybe the British and US tastes are so far apart that what is OK in one culture is just not right in another.
But if similar billboards had been erected along the motorways on the way into London they would have been spectacular own goals and an absolute gift to the alarmist tendency.
Jim, short but well-written counter-arguments, congrats.
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The problem with nonsense such as that spewed out by the Economist and HuffPo, is that their followers will believe them. Then, as the months turn into years they will see the HI is still there, and stronger than ever. That’s gotta sting!
Journalists told them lies? How can that be?
Sam Geoghegan says:
June 3, 2012 at 12:24 am
“That’s cool and all but they’re still a bunch of neo-cons.”
Sam,
Thanks for the words of praise! New or old, conservatives are all about honest addition and multiplication, not the political subtraction and division practiced by our opponents, et.al. That’s why we support science blogs like WUWT, free market policy groups like The Heartland Institute, and true grass roots organizations like the Taxed Enough Already (TEA) Party folks.
MtK
James Sexton says:
June 3, 2012 at 8:25 am
“……I think it’s time we all took off our rose colored glasses and see reality.”
James,
Polite and well stated, et.al.! We cannot always be bound to the Marquis of Queensbury Rules, while our opponents pummel us about the nether parts with low blows and loaded gloves! Occasionally, showing them an ugly reflection of themselves (and that is all those billboards did) serves effectively.
The sortie down into the enemy’s trenches was effective. Now, let’s get back to the high ground!!
MtK
James Sexton says: @ June 3, 2012 at 11:44 am
on’t think I am wearing any rose-coloured and I share your dislike of the warmist mantra and the warmist agenda. I am a consistent critic of them both as my musings over the years will show..
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Latimer, I’m sorry about the choice of words. That statement wasn’t directed towards you, but the skeptical community in general.
But, this is the dilemma. When is it inappropriate to point out the parallels of monstrosity?…..
Click here for just a few examples of what we’re really fighting.
The climate discussion has moved from the hypothetical intellectual exercise. These maniacs are pursuing and perpetrating some of the most vile acts in crimes against humanity. Aren’t we bound to point these things out?
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Thank you for pointing this out.
Once you peel of the rose colored glasses, it becomes obvious that there has been a well orchestrated power grab going on for decades. Pres. Clinton’s mentor, Professor Carroll Quigley made a study of that power grab and wrote Tragedy and Hope (1966). Bill Clinton is now giving lectures at the London School of Economics, Founded by the Webbs who also founded the Fabian Society. If you want to see what the Fabians had planned check out what Co-founder George Bernard Shaw’s plans for humanity were.
If Heartland is going to do another billboard, remember that the Unabomber is not running in any election and nobody was going to vote for him anyway. Put real candidates faces on those billboards and try to make the anti-economy side of CAGW an election issue.
John Whitman says:
June 3, 2012 at 10:04 am
“I suggest the sheeplike people who follow the ideologically anti-human cult of environmentalists feel guilty of being modern, affluent humans. The important question is what intellectual/philosophical trend in modern civilization created the guilt in those sheeplike people and more fundamentally why did they become such sheeplike people in today’s more secular civilizations?”
I recommend you read Eric Berne’s Games People Play. (1964)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_%28book%29
Berne identified a number of behavioral patterns he calls games that people play to stabilize their feeling of self-worth. Many of the little Malthusian sheeple lead completely ordinary “polluting” lives and they don’t think for a moment about it. Their own world-saving rethoric is in fact completely disconnected from the fact that they own three cars between their hubby and themselves. They have just decided a long time ago that they can impress people and appear as smart and thoughtful by every once in a while criticize our way of living, as if deep rational ponderings took place inside of them when nothing could be further from the truth; just regurgitate something that sounds complicated enough to impress a chimp.
Ask any of them for a refutation of an argument you just made up of thin air and you’re lucky if you can get a personal attack back in return; most of the times they just go away. Warmists avoid debates because that’s not the game they play; they play a game of displaying their own thoughtfulness but it’s a Potemkin village on display. There’s nothing behind it.
Host: “And I’m betting Forecast the Facts won’t exist anymore in three years. Any takers?”
Anyone know if “Intrade” has an over/under number?
.
Honey, try CENTURIES. Those in power want to stay in power It works in families on up.
Maybe all this comes as a shock to you, and may explain your apparent fascination with the subject, but, it’s not new material.
And you think mankind’s nature is going to change one iota just b/c it’s 2012 and we have the internet?
Not if the Son of God were to come down upon this earth … (Could go back to the point where ‘Original sin’ enters the picture and mention ‘free will’ and all but I’ll stop here.)
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Latimer Alder says:
June 3, 2012 at 12:09 pm
@james sexton
Maybe we’ll just have to agree to differ. ….
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What a horribly boring place this would be if we all always agreed on everything. I disagree with my friends often, and they with me.
It’s the Con-Censor-Us — the concensorus!
The entirely valid implicit message of the BBoards: CAGW readily lends itself to justification of the most anti-human and vile philosophies and agendas. With the de-industrialization/depop crowd, it’s quite explicit, in fact.
The sceptical pro-science approach is entirely the opposite, wanting to enrich all humans as much as possible to empower them to flourish and prosper whatever the climate decides to do.
The contrast is stark, notwithstanding the pusillanimous posturing of those who can’t tell the difference between naming names and doing special effects videos of dynamited child sceptics.
Toto says:
June 3, 2012 at 6:19 pm
If Heartland is going to do another billboard, remember that the Unabomber is not running in any election and nobody was going to vote for him anyway. Put real candidates faces on those billboards and try to make the anti-economy side of CAGW an election issue.
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I don’t think politics is any part of Hearland’s game plan, I could be wrong, but their concern is about corrupted science.
I don’t recall who posted this page of temperature charts a few days ago, http://www.c3headlines.com/temperature-charts-historical-proxies.html
but one I recognised with affection having used it in a discussion because it was so, well, graphic. It instantly gives a sense of scale in the bold blocks of colour and of our position, our place in it, in a history familiar to us.
http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c014e8b847998970d-400wi
I like the boldness of big blocks of colour and the use of the ‘warm’ ‘very warm’ ‘cold’ ‘very cold’, which take out any delay in recognition, but think it does need the black arrow to present temperature to be much larger and bolder to the you are here now.
It doesn’t need all that information for a billboard easy story at a glance – the volcanic information and such taken out. I’d keep in the dates and such markers as Hebrew Exodus From Egypt, Birth of Christ, Roman Empire, Medieval Warm, Little Ice Age, and miss out the speculation of where it could be going so ending on the Now arrow, and, keeping in the title line and the box “At Least 75 Major Temperature Swings ..”, but change the colour of the box to white with red writing to match title as the message doesn’t stand out in blue. Perhaps the Viking Exploration could be associated with farming in Greenland.
James Sexton says:
June 3, 2012 at 10:30 am
= = = = = = =
James Sexton,
Hey, thanks for your response.
Yes, as you indicated, I do disagree with your idea that abandonment of religious based morality has created the necessary conditions for the occurrence of the apparently sheeplike followers of anti-human ideologies aligned with some cults of environmentalism. Not a ‘Quelle surprise!’
My thinking is it is the two dominating philosophic traditions in our universities for the past 100+ years that are the cause of uncritical followers (sheeplike) of irrational movements, and the cause of the irrational movements themselves. Those two philosophic traditions that have dominated our institutions of higher education in the 20th century to date are Pragmatism and Neo-Kantianism. In America it appears that Pragmatism is slightly more dominant than Neo-Kantianism. In Europe it appears that Neo-Kantianism is more dominant.
John
DirkH says:
June 3, 2012 at 6:20 pm –
– – – – – – – – –
DirkH,
Thanks for your comment and the reference to Eric Berne’s book Games People Play. (1964) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_%28book%29
In my comment to James Sexton above, I indicated that I think two philosophic traditions that dominate our universities are the prime contributors to modern society having significant numbers of uncritical followers of irrational movements; and also they are a significant cause of the irrational movements themselves. I think the two traditions are Pragmatism and Neo-Kantianism.
Next time I am in a major library I will try to look through Eric Berne’s book.
John
Jim Lakely says:
June 2, 2012 at 9:50 pm
Congrats on the funding recovery.
Now , redo the Billboard with a much simpler message. Something like “CO2 is plant food”.
John Whitman says:
June 4, 2012 at 8:08 am
“I indicated that I think two philosophic traditions that dominate our universities are the prime contributors to modern society having significant numbers of uncritical followers of irrational movements; and also they are a significant cause of the irrational movements themselves. I think the two traditions are Pragmatism and Neo-Kantianism.”
There are German names for this: “Gesinnungsethik” (“disposition etics”) (Kantian) – where the motive of an action is assessed for its moral merits (Kant = “Moralischer Imperativ”) – one of my colleagues was an arch social democrat and at the same time a big defender of Kant…
The other school is “Verantwortungsethik” – “responsibility ethics” – what you describe as pragmatism.
The two words were introduced by Max Weber and are still in use in German academia. Try a google translate on this or read a bio of Max Weber…
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verantwortungsethik