I was surprised to see this essay and poll on the Daily Kos tonight.
Don Mikulecky writes:
Michael Mann is a Modern Hero and we need to acknowledge that!
I have been both a scientist and a political activist for most of my 76 years. But the situation regarding Michael Mann is very different. I just finished a very moving experience reading The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines and I have lots more to say than I can fit in a single diary. So I will devote this diary to trying to convince you that this Mann is a hero. There are too few heroes among the scientific community because of the nature of what we do.
Michael Mann was not someone who chose his role. Military persons can anticipate the possibility of being in situations where acts of heroism are called for. Scientists are certainly not in the same situation. Or at least, they have not been for a long time. Galileo comes to mind and it was the Church then that made his life one of great sacrifice. In these times the situation has deteriorated so rapidly that few of us have had a chance to evaluate the impact of what is going on. Science is a threat to the dark forces that are moving to control us all. People like Carl Sagan and Stephen jay Gould were out there early on fighting against these dark forces. They did a lot for us. Rachael Carlson and many others were on the front lines.
Yet the situation with Professor Mann is something beyond all that. He has become a symbol for what our future is all about and he did not chose his role. No sane person would have. Read on below and I will try to paint a broad picture of how much is at stake and give you a perspective on how this one Mann has focused on the threat to all of us.
…
The full essay is here:
And, there is a poll at the end which has some surprising choices.
Update 3/14: One of the comments there is by somebody who posts here regularly, John Sully. He writes:
Anthony Watts posted about this over at his site and told the trolls to come and freep the poll. This is why year after year his site gets voted “Best Science Blog” or whatever.
Mr. Sully please point out exactly where in the 35 words I wrote (the rest are from Kos) in this essay I have “…told the trolls to come and freep the poll.” Otherwise sir, you are a liar. – Anthony
They shouldn’t have asked me.
Michael Mann is a hero the same way Bernie Madoff is a hero.
Madoff was great until they found out what he was doing.
Link is broken without the last “-” that didn’t make it from the text to HTML
Thanks for pointing this out. Went over there to vote…. Please do the same.
Link not working – the hyphen at the end must be made part of the url.
Link fixed, – thanks -A
“You can see from the poll that we have some trolls….” Heh
is this serious? n i can only conclude that this 76 year old is a senile fool/….
The only way anyone could believe that Michael Mann is a hero, is if they can rationalize the use of deception in science because the end justifies the means.
link blocked when referred from WUWT (I think)
Whenever I select the link above I get a Dailykos blank page. If I copy the url and paste it, It loads fine. I suspect the daily kos wankers don’t really want a link from Anthony Watts. Or maybe they are desperate for the click revenues but don’t want votes for the options we will likely choose.
Anyway,I chose “is distorting evidence to prove his point” as did the majority so far.
Dumb poll…populism proves nothing.
This link works : http://tinyurl.com/7t49zkr
Already not many people who think much of Mann.
Anthony, how could you, I just lost my breakfast!
Poll results after I voted:
“Get fired” would be an excellent choice for those wanting to enhance his climate martyrdom. I am glad to help.
LOL the poll results would suggest Don has got that one wrong.
Poll
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
1%
2 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0%
0 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
2%
4 votes
all of the above
8%
12 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
61%
89 votes
should be fired from the university
26%
38 votes
| 145 votes | Results
Going by the results of the poll, and what comments actually appear, it seems likely that any negative comments are censored. Either that, or the people who disagree haven’t bothered to comment, possibly indicating that they think they’ll be censored anyway.
Access from the link on your blog now seems to be blocked…
I think I’m dreaming. Or this is simply the most satisfying poll I will ever be allowed to be part of.
Galileo?
I threw up a bit in my throat.
The last two poll questions are intended to split the vote. They should have been combined into one question: “Should Michael Mann be fired for distorting evidence?”
I voted for firing him, because it is an indisputable fact that he distorted evidence, cherry-picked proxies, and hid evidence that would have falsified his hockey stick in a file labeled “Censored”.
All polls about Michael Mann should include the option:
Should abandon failing career in climate science and return to producing TV shows.
WTF. A hero, well really now; what do you expect? These watermelons have all sorts of Heroes, Michael Mann has a hero you know, who it is?; wait for it?; yes: Paul Ehrlich, Mr Population Bomb, and the everything I say, write and think is wrong lunatic man. And lets kill 95% of people as people are maggots man.
How do I know this about Mann, because he said so in his so called book. The book that had me howling with laughter; really my wife thought I was going to die laughing.
I have a hero too: His name is Stephen McIntyre. No wonder I despise Mann so much.
“This is but one example of the lies and deceit out there on the web. These blogs and postings are part of a coordinated effort financed by the oils and coal industries,… ”
I had no idea what ‘kos was about , but I’m quickly getting the picture.
Whoever, wrote this about having an “emotional” experience reading the book is probably telling the truth. Fiction can be very moving. I’m sure I cried the first I read Snow White and the Seven Dwarves.
He probably thought “The Titanic” was historically accurate as well. 🙄
Get a grip!
Don is not liking the “trolls”.
Mind you, troll is not liking Don, although I suspect Don is right when he asserts that no one sane would choose Mann’s “role”.
170 votes for distortion, 57 to remove of 247 votes. Lol.
I wonder how long it will take for them to nix the poll?
At the rate that Mann is getting “zeroed”, it shouldn’t be too long.
[snip – over the top – Anthony]
Last 2 questions: 228
All the rest: 20
Mann’s corner should throw in the towel (but not before someone takes a screenshot)
Seems as though the author himself doen’t like the poll results
.
now at 70% clicking distortion
It reads like Mark Anthony speaking of Caesar.
Was that intentional?
I couldn’t figure out how to comment on Kos but if I had been able to, I would have commented that Mann’s apt nick name is “Piltdown Mann” and that his book should always be read along with “The Hockey Stick Illusion” and “The CRUtape Letters”. I voted that he had distorted evidence and rather than for being fired because I think he should remain at Penn State as a permanent blot on their academic reputation.
How awfully funny – reducing Dr Mann’s work to a popularity contest; and at last check he is losing badly in his home court. Pathetic.
I can see the World Climate Widget on your blog from my comment box and I’m sorry but Global Temperature Anomaly looks like noise about a non-alarming mean to my engineer’s eye . And I don’t mean that in any sort of demeaning way. I am very interested in improving our understanding of climate and atmospheric science; but again, as an engineer I think we should be paying a lot (and I mean a lot) more attention to fundamental measurement of real-world climate variables in real time before we make too many rash statements about Mankind’s alleged contribution. For every dollar generated one way or another by Dr Mann’s Hockey stick, if we would contribute one dime to Mr. Watts’ surface station project; our returns would be tenfold over again in returns in our understanding.
Statistical wish fulfillment ala Dr Mann has proven to be silly exaggeration now apparently reduced to nothing but PR.
Now 195 votes for distortion and 62 votes for sacking out of 277 votes. That is a condemation rate of almost 93%.
I did notice that there were 4 positive choices including an “all of the above” which is where to pro votes are meant to accumulate and 2 negative choices which are meant to split the anti vote. Pretty transparent and completely ineffectual.
Anybody running a pool on when they pull it down? near 100% in the two bottom choices.
20 (sum of four favorable), 196 distorts data, 61 “should be fired” of 277 votes.
70% of the vote ~ 209 votes out of 279 are currently listed for he’s distorting the science.(If you can get thru to see it!) Seems the poll is closed… ;o)
Our trolls are better than their trolls. Site won’t let me comment.
Hopefully Santorum wins tonight will probably mean Romney is finished. This is VIP for the global warming story. If this guy gets elected the whole AGW fabrication will be brought to task and terminated.
Michael Mann suffers from personality science distortion, so says the poll.
I’d love to leave a comment there, but can’t figure out how,
I voted for sacking.If I did what he did,I’d be passing my cigarettes through the bars.
I can just see the oversized picture of Chairman Mao over Mikulecky’s fireplace, joyously ablaze, as he sacrifices all reason on the altar of liberal utopianism…
If I could only vote in that poll without increasing DKs traffic count.
Where is the selection “Mann is a modern fraud and we need to acknowledge that”?
OK so there’s a lot of skeptics voting on their poll, possibly from here. But why aren’t they balanced by climate change believers? This happens all the time, the skeptics are frequently a majority presence at the front line where the non-stupified (e.g. Guardian) debates are had. Though if you go to the Guardian you find many people supportive of the cause regurgitating the worn out 97 % settled science style arguments. Does seem to be a dearth of climate change supporters who actually inhabit the more remote corners of the internet where real debates are had.
Of course Mann is a hero to some. Take a look at the profile of Prof. Mikulecky.
http://www.dailykos.com/user/don%20mikulecky
That pretty much says it all.
What a joke, only a fog brain could believe this man Don Mikulecky on Mann idolatry.
See the poll, Mann is getting his butt well and truly kicked!!
Poll
Michael Mann
is distorting evidence to prove his point
70% 242 votes
should be fired from the university
23% 80 votes
Total: 343 votes
Don’t be surprised to see some warmist pole/data fudging very soon, they won’t like whats happening poll wise!!!
If you put ‘daily kos michael mann’ into the google search box this preposterous article is the first link which pops up.
It’s quite amazing that people can still write such unsubstantiated stuff… But I had a row with an old friend, a Democrat activist, on FB only two days ago merely for pointing out that there is NO scientific consensus, He responded that he wasn’t prepared to listen to Republican deniers.
I’m not even an American! The AG propaganda machine has really done its work, and will still take many years to dismantle – it’s very depressing
When I read something like this, I wonder how one person’s perspective could be so different from my own understanding of the facts. A look at Don’s profile cleared that up for me.
“don mikulecky’s Profile Retired prof. still active in teaching and writing. See my web page for more. Charter member of Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)”.
Poll is still open apparently, screenshot linked above.
Hero? Nah. Zero? Well, no with that as well since he has benefitted greatly from his poor science. He’s been to Hawaii how many times?
I think Nero is a better fit, fiddling while his theory and schtick go down in flames. The man is truly delusional. I don’t know what it is, what strain of Denial hansenitis Mikey suffers from, but I’ve seen my share of Amherst activists (was almost one myself in fact) and they rarely yield an inch.
Mann is a truly special case of ego gone awry. The Climategate emails show he doesn’t have many fans even amongst his closest colleagues. He seems a rather nasty little bully if you ask me.
Yes, Nero indeed, Emperor of snakes with a venomous tongue and marshmallow teeth…and an empire in flames…and the wind’s picking up.
Good luck Mike. Good luck, that is, recovering from the inevitable Fall of Mann. It’s “very likely” you won’t stop swinging all full of piss and vinegar and tiger blood, but they make a jacket for that. Methinks it would fit you nicely. I kid, kind of. Sorry. The dude gets under my skin.
PS The poll isn’t closed, I just voted. It’s only closed if you try to go straight from this site
Don Mikulecky and Micheal Mann 2 peas in a pod and rotten to the core!
See them @ http://tinyurl.com/7t49zkr
Try that again, the comment form didn’t like the html tags. http://imgur.com/6SuDg for the direct link to my very recent poll screenshot.
“Mann created RealClimate, a blog where rapid responses to the lies and organized attacks could be countered.”
How does that work? I personally go to websites that have a proven track record, such as WUWT, and I haven’t visited RealClimate in about 2 years, as I quickly learned it didn’t seem to want to teach climate science. There was always something about their answers that bothered me, so I decided I had to study climate science first before trying to figure out what RealClimate was leaving out or distorting in their “rapid responses”.
Don Mikulecky’s profile:
Retired prof. still active in teaching and writing. See my web page for more.Charter member of Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)
It’s now 418 to 21. That’s 95% negative.
Dr. Mikulecky cites Sagan and Gould. Steve Gould wasn’t above data falsification to prove a point that he thought must be right: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/2011/06/stephen-jay-gould-mismeasured-skulls-in-racial-records-dispute/1#.T2ADNJgjSPM
I don’t know about Sagan’s science. Dark forces? Troubled times? It’s always doom and gloom with these guys. Political activism first, science, only when it supports the cause.
I did not select the fired option because it seems he does more to harm the warmists position by being where he is.
If those numbers hold up just wait for the foaming at the mouth over us “denialist/pawns of Big Oil”. At 10:30 EDT 417 negatives out of 437 votes. Pollster didn’t have enough brains (or too much arrogance) to make sure that there was no way someone could vote negatively.
Strange idea of heroes. Rachel Carson (assuming that’s who he meant) is probably responsible for more deaths than Pol Pot. What about Lysenko? He surely must be a hero too, right?
“Science is a threat to the dark forces that are moving to control us all” This is without question the most accurate message in the article. That is why there are so many people trying wrestle climate science from the grips of propagandists.
flicka47 says:March 13, 2012 at 7:19 pm
70% of the vote ~ 209 votes out of 279 are currently listed for he’s distorting the science.(If you can get thru to see it!) Seems the poll is closed… ;o)
——-
I voted somewhat recently and it was up to 220 votes out of 311 for the distorting option. (I took a screen cap after I voted).
“…trolls…from the deniers….”
When your argument can’t stand on its own merit, invoke the name calling. Sign of a true scientist.
Michael Mann:
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 2 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 0 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
3% 15 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
71% 315 votes
should be fired from the university
23% 102 votes
| 438 Votes.
And Rachael Carlson!! The Silent Spring, woman!! Give me a break, the banning of DDT has cost the lives of 40 million people, mostly children, only Mao and Stalin almost managed that together. Hitler do not even come close.
Does a hero manipulate scientific data to push an agenda that will result in trillions of dollars been spent on boondoggles? Mann obviously cherry picked tree ring data and used an specific analysis technique that forced a large data set to track the cherry picked tree ring data. Truth and unbiased analysis is the foundation of science. Mann and his cohorts over at Realclimate will be definitively proven incorrect (on a suite of bad science, such as whether the planet’s response to a change in forcing is positive – amplifies the change- or negative -resists the change- ) when the planet cools. It will be interesting to listen to the back pedaling and inventive explanations until they capitulate.
What mechanism caused the past cyclic warming and cooling? Why were there cosmogenic isotope changes at each and every one of the past cyclic warming and cooling changes?
The cyclic warming and cooling can be seen in the Greenland Ice sheet data. (See this link, “The Big picture, figure 3 in the attached which is an excerpt from Richard Alley’s paper.)
http://www.climate4you.com/
I would highly recommend this short read as a succinct summary of the hockey stick issue.
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/McKitrick-hockeystick.pdf
What is the ‘Hockey Stick’ Debate About?
… At the political level the emerging debate is about whether the enormous international trust that has been placed in the IPCC was betrayed. The hockey stick story reveals that the IPCC allowed a deeply flawed study to dominate the Third Assessment Report, which suggests the possibility of bias in the Report-writing…
…The result is in the bottom panel of Figure 6 (“Censored”). It shows what happens when Mann’s PC algorithm is applied to the NOAMER data after removing 20 bristlecone pine series. Without these hockey stick shapes to mine for, the Mann method generates a result just like that from a conventional PC algorithm, and shows the dominant pattern is not hockey stick-shaped at all. Without the bristlecone pines the overall MBH98 results would not have a hockey stick shape, instead it would have a pronounced peak in the 15th century.
Of crucial importance here: the data for the bottom panel of Figure 6 is from a folder called CENSORED on Mann’s FTP site. He did this very experiment himself and discovered that the PCs lose their hockey stick shape when the Graybill-Idso series are removed. In so doing he discovered that the hockey stick is not a global pattern, it is driven by a flawed group of US proxies that experts do not consider valid as climate indicators. But he did not disclose this fatal weakness of his results, and it only came to light because of Stephen McIntyre’s laborious efforts. …
This is one of many papers predicting cooling. Note the Greenland Ice core data shows cycles of warming and cooling, with some of the cooling phases abrupt.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/amet/aip/543146.pdf
Solar activity and Svalbard temperatures
The long temperature series at Svalbard (Longyearbyen) show large variations and a positive trend since its start in 1912. During this period solar activity has increased, as indicated by shorter solar cycles. The temperature at Svalbard is negatively correlated with the length of the solar cycle. The strongest negative correlation is found with lags 10–12 years. The relations between the length of a solar cycle and the mean temperature in the following cycle are used to model Svalbard annual mean temperature and seasonal temperature variations. These models can be applied as forecasting models. We predict an annual mean temperature decrease for Svalbard of 3.5 to 2⁰C from solar cycle 23 to solar cycle 24 (2009–‐20) and a decrease in the winter temperature of ≈6⁰ C.
http://sheridan.geog.kent.edu/geog41066/7-Overpeck.pdf
ABRUPT CHANGE IN EARTH’S CLIMATE SYSTEM
“The earliest Holocene abrupt climate changes occurred at 12,800, 8200, 5200, and 4200 B.P. . . .” The 8200 B.P. event, “lasted four hundred years (6400-6000 B.C.) and, like the Younger Dryas, generated abrupt aridification and cooling in the North Atlantic and North America, Africa, and Asia (Alley et al. 1997; Barber et al. 1999; Hu et al. 1999; Street-Perrot and Perrot 1990).
http://www.geo.arizona.edu/palynology/geos462/8200yrevent.html
The 8200-year Climate Event
This figure shows snow accumulation and isotopically inferred temperature records in the Greenland GISP2 ice core and a temperature record derived from oxygen isotope measurements of fossil shells in the sediments of Lake Ammersee, southern Germany. These records all show a major climatic instability event which occurred around 8200 years ago, during the Holocene. The event was large both in magnitude, as reflected by a temperature signal in Greenland of order 5 C, and in its geographical extent, as indicated by the close correlation of the signal in these two locations. The dramatic event is also seen in the methane record from Greenland (not shown here) indicating possible major shifts in hydrology and land cover in lower latitudes. source: Von Grafenstein et al (1998) Climate Dynamics, 14, 73-81.
Abrupt tropical cooling ~8,000 years ago
“We drilled a sequence of exceptionally large, well-preserved Porites corals within an uplifted palaeo-reef in Alor, Indonesia, with Th-230 ages spanning the period 8400 to 7600 calendar years before present (Figure 2). The corals lie within the Western Pacific Warm Pool, which at present has the highest mean annual temperature in the world’s ocean. Measurements of coral Sr/Ca and oxygen 18 isotopes at 5-year sampling increments for five of the fossil corals (310 annual growth increments) have yielded a semi-continuous record spanning the 8.2 ka event. The measurements (Figure 2) show that sea-surface temperatures were essentially the same as today from 8400 to 8100 years ago, followed by an abrupt ~3C cooling over a period of ~100 years, reaching a minimum ~8000 years ago. The cooling calculated from coral oxygen 18 isotopes is similar to that derived from Sr/Ca. The exact timing of the termination of the cooling event is not yet known, but a coral dated as 7600 years shows sea-surface temperatures similar to those of today.”
http://www.ann-geophys.net/20/115/2002/angeo-20-115-2002.pdf
The 2400-year cycle in atmospheric radiocarbon concentration: bispectrum of 14C data over the last 8000 years
We have carried out power spectrum, time-spectrum and bispectrum analyses of the long-term series of the radiocarbon concentrations deduced from measurements of the radiocarbon content in tree rings for the last 8000 years. Classical harmonic analysis of this time series shows a number of periods: 2400, 940, 710, 570, 500, 420, 360, 230, 210 and 190 years. A principle feature of the time series is the long period of 2400 years, which is well known. The lines with periods of 710, 420 and 210 years are found to be the primary secular components of power spectrum. The complicated structure of the observed power spectrum is the result of 2400-year modulation of primary secular components. The modulation induces the appearance of two side lines for every primary one, namely lines with periods of 940 and 570 years, of 500 and 360 years, and 230 and 190 years. The bispectral analysis shows that the parameters of carbon exchange system varied with the _2400-year period during the last 8000 years. Variations of these parameters appear to be a climate effect on the rate of transfer of 14C between the atmosphere and the ocean. Time comparison of the epochs of high and low solar activity with climate alteration led to the conclusion that the cause of the approx. 2400-year cycle, both in the 14C concentration and in climate of the Earth, appears to be of a solar nature (Dergachev and Chistyakov, 1995).
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2003SPD….34.0603S
Solar Activity Heading for a Maunder Minimum?
My colleagues and I have developed some understanding for how these methods work and have expanded the prediction methods using “solar dynamo precursor” methods, notably a “SODA” index (SOlar Dynamo Amplitude). These methods are now based upon an understanding of the Sun’s dynamo processes- to explain a connection between how the Sun’s fields are generated and how the Sun broadcasts its future activity levels to Earth. This has led to better monitoring of the Sun’s dynamo fields and is leading to more accurate prediction techniques. Related to the Sun’s polar and toroidal magnetic fields, we explain how these methods work, past predictions, the current cycle, and predictions of future of solar activity levels for the next few solar cycles.
The surprising result of these long-range predictions is a rapid decline in solar activity, starting with cycle #24. If this trend continues, we may see the Sun heading towards a “Maunder” type of solar activity minimum – an extensive period of reduced levels of solar activity. For the solar physicists, who enjoy studying solar activity, we hope this isn’t so, but for NASA, which must place and maintain satellites in low earth orbit (LEO), it may help with reboost problems. Space debris, and other aspects of objects in LEO will also be affected.
Those who would have negative comments are too busy laughing at the article.
I think snacking is an outstand….Oh. “sacking”. Yeah, that too.
But let’s applaud Kos–comments blocked (apparently) but the poll is still up and still accepting “votes”.
Pretty solid 93% in the bottom two.
More fun than watching the Guam primaries.
For those that want to comment on the article, there is a “sign up” link at the top of the page. I decided that it was not worth the effort, but others may take a different option.
“Thanks for touting this hero of mankind. (2+ / 0-)
I was three when the IGY happened. I was brought up in science and the philosophy of truth-seeking. Evaluation of data before it’s accepted, that sort of thing. I can’t even recognize this insane culture we now find ourselves embedded in…
But I won’t change. I’m still standing on two logical feet and will do what I can to shine light wherever I see darkness”.
Posted by IMSODIZZY
I think there’s been a breach in Don’s firewall.
Following my vote, 21 Pro-Mann votes, 505 Pro-Human votes.
And this from the article:
1. We know nothing of the sort. Apparently he hasn’t looked at the CRU emails.
2. Bwahahahah!
This guy is just looney.
Latest poll : 21 for Michael Mann, 502 against. Good work, people!
I haven’t seen such a lop-sided result since Saddam last stood for “re-election” (:-
“There are too few heroes among the scientific community…..Or at least, they have not been for a long time. Galileo comes to mind……” mikulecky.
The only way Mann will ever have anything in common with Galileo will be if he ends up in jail.
From the piece:
The referenced chunk comes not from a blog or posting, but Senator Inhofe’s September 26, 2006 speech on the floor of the US Senate:
http://epw.senate.gov/speechitem.cfm?party=rep&id=263759
Links to video and pdf version with charts are there.
Love the way Daily Kos is always so careful with the fact checking. So Senator Inhofe is “financed by the oils and coal industries”? At least partially, they do pay a lot of taxes.
GE, vendor of Green tech and future supplier of the tools for enabling the Gaia-saving UN Green Regime, which has now publicly worried about the electing of a climate denying Republican for US President, basically was not financing Inhofe in 2010. So Daily Kos think GE good and truthful, da?
Now over 500:
Almost 500 negative, 21 positive. 95% thumbs down!
I think only site “members”, those in the “Kos-Sack”, can comment.
LOL
Not so solid after all — 96% in the last two picks.
Now at 72% (337 out of 467) for fabrication, and 23% (109) for firing.
95% against. Only 21 votes for (and 15 were for all of the above).
Somehow, I don’t think that’s the result they were expecting.
Fire him? No, let Penn State carry him.
Lord knows we don’t need him out here burdening the real world.
It is obvious to me that the article is pure sarcasm. It is the only explanation that makes any sense at all.
“Somehow, I don’t think that’s the result they were expecting.”
That is the short summary of all of their efforts.
I would like to know what the counts were on that “poll” when this article went up, and what the plot of “visits here” vs “‘voted’ there” looks like.
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/52724
Most polar ice ever recorded, but hey, Al Gore Says the Polar Ice Cap Will Be Gone In 823 days, while NASA says the Arctic Sea Ice will be almost gone in just 191 days.
Isn’t science and scientific modeling amazing?
Poll appears to be closed with:
2/0/4/15 in the pro Mann options and
479/149 in the anti-Mann options
It looks like we have a consensus (95% by their reckoning) so can we hope to see the out of work, ex-‘scientist’ in front of a judge soon?
Poll must be hosted out of Chicago since you can vote early and often.
I risked breaking out in allergic hives by visiting the “dailykoz” site and voted for Mann to be dismissed from the university
Oh my I don’t expect this poll to remain long. Right now.
did not choose to be hero – 3
attacked – 0
outstanding scientist – 4
all of the above – 15
distorting evidence – 533 – 73%
be fired – 166 – 23%
I can’t believe the pole is still up not with 96% disapproval of Mann.
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 2 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 0 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
2% 15 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
73% 480 votes
should be fired from the university
23% 151 votes
It is interesting to me that in the two hours that I have been watching this, the “for” ‘voted’ have not changed more than a few (I’ll say–I think “any” is correct) ‘votes’.
Not closed–ticked up 25 ‘votes since I last posted — I hear you can’t use IE to link from here to there.
Let it be known that WUWT provides an opportunity for all sides to present their views. Even if we don’t agree, we listen politely. Somrthing others don’t do.
a consensus has been reached
Odd…for a socialist democrat who apparently sees right wing conspiracy at every turn (as evidenced by the president/kerry question) to not have big backing at Kos, the home of socialist democrats…that means something.
The man is clearly delusional, although I’m sure in his mind he shares the same”brave”traits as his martyr, Mann.
Personally I laughed my butt off at his little worshiping
I was thinking of voting “is distorting evidence to prove his point.” However, there was an implication in that verbiage that his point was right and that he was “only” distorting to make his “correct” point more convincing.
I voted the better, unequivocal, option…..
WUWT readers are probably the majority of the essay/polls traffic.
Current Results:
did not choose to became a symbol 0% 3 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were 0% 0 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being 0% 4 votes
all of the above 1% 15 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point 73% 590 votes
should be fired from the university 23% 191 votes
With 818 votes, last two are:
That adds to 97%. We have a new Climate Consensus!
Well he’s right about one thing. Heroes don’t choose their lot in life.
Well, unless it gives them a shot at millions in research grants, who knows how much in book royalties, speaking fees, travel to exotic locations on someone else’s dime to tell everyone how smart he is and how important his research is, and no risk of life doing it. Other than that, itz exactly like being a hero.
Regarding – “NSF IG report on Michael Mann investigation: “No research misconduct. Case closed.” Don’t bother telling Rick Perry.
Posted on August 22, 2011 by Rick Piltz
This is getting old. Completing yet another investigation of the co-author of a seminal study of the 1,000-year temperature record (commonly referred to as the “Hockey Stick”), the National Science Foundation Inspector General concluded: “Finding no research misconduct or other matter raised by the various regulations and laws discussed above, this case is closed.” But don’t waste your breath telling that to global warming denialist Rick Perry, oil-money governor of Texas and would-be president. See Joe Romm, Climate Progress: Climate Secret: NSF Quietly Closes Out Inspector General Investigation with Complete Vindication of Michael Mann
Two things we know with extremely high confidence:
1. Recent warming is unprecedented in magnitude and speed and cause (so the temperature history looks like a Hockey Stick).
2. Michael Mann, the lead author on the original Hockey Stick paper, is one of the nation’s top climatologists and a source of first-rate analysis.
We know these things because both the Hockey Stick and Mann have been independently investigated and vindicated more times than any other facet of climate science or any other climate scientist.”
_____________________________________________
The last two points are untrue. Global warming is (and always has been) caused by the Sun. Moreover, the warming is not ‘unprecedented in magnitude’ as there have been decades before in Earth’s history where global warming – again – caused by the Sun – has happened with no help from humanity whatsoever.
The second point is this – Michael Mann is not a forecaster. He does not forecast even seasonal weather, much less climate weather of a year or more. Anyone who claims to be able to be an expert analyzer of the Earth’s climate should easily be able to forecast seasonal and yearly climate and weather – in advance. Mann does not do this and has not.
Lastly, Mann and his ‘hockey stick’ graphic have been independently reviewed but not vindicated since that would preclude that Mann is correct about his ‘graphic’ that essentially says that the causes of global warming in the past and present is man-made – and this HAS NOT been accomplished since Mann’s findings would violate the laws of thermodynamics and physics.
This year will see some of the warmest temperatures of late according to my astrometeorological forecast of 2012-13 climate conditions, published here -> http://solarcycle24com.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=globalwarming&action=display&thread=1929
The above normal warm temperatures we will experience are caused by the activity of the Sun and we are in the 32nd year of Solar-forced global warming with four (4) more years to go before the warming regime ends as the world transitions into a new climate regime – that of global cooling.
At 2056 Central, “Nerd” report the first four were 2/0/4/12
A4 2236 Central they are………………………………..3/0/4/15
I’d think there would be an “all hands” call to get the counts up.
What’s up with that?
And for the record I have gone over there several times and have been offered the opportunity to ‘vote’ near every time. I have voted but once, the first time I looked at it.
I fired him.
I see Mann writes for Kos now.
I’m sure with the poll results,we could make a TRUE hockey stick.LOL
This is a bogus poll! I just voted in the old Chicago style of early anf often (~150 times) for ‘Is an outstanding scientist and human being’ and not even my first vote was counted!
Who set up this poll?
Anyone who believes this poll is a fooling themselves.
Anyone who thinks its KOS is an idiot.
Opa50
[Reply: You would need ~150 separate computers to do that. -mod]
Poll is still accessible – I just voted.
Mann is many things hero is not one of them. His actions while unethical or questionable may be interpreted as heroic by some. These are either people who share his “True Belief” or who’s interests, mostly economic, are served by it. He does not even quality as an antihero. Antiheroes do the right thing in spite of themselves. It is quite clear he has transformed his expertise from science to cognitive dissonance. I think everyone is giving far to much importance to the irrelevance and sophistry of his book.
The science icon that comes to mind for me, is Copernicus, for advancing science with his theory of heliocentrism against great non science related pressure. However the modern day example of that is not Mann, it is Henrik Svensmark. His strongly opposed research at CERN has been relentlessly confirming at each stage, his very solid theory that cosmic rays shower muons down to catalyze the particular moisture rich and very white, solar reflective clouds, at the 2000 to 3000 foot level, that can block lots of sun from getting to the surface of Earth and create cooling. The cosmic rays have the big gate of our heliosphere to get through. The geologic record of carbon 14, and the analysis of oxygen content of certain little sea creature shells and other indicators all line up to confirm cosmic ray abundance means colder climate. It’s not our climate that drives the clouds, it’s the clouds that drive our climate. During solar system epochs in which cosmic rays were very sparse due to our location in the galaxy the polar ice caps melted. During times when cosmic rays were overwhelming we had a “snowball Earth”. During this time we are used to, in the galactic arm “Orion” we have 60 to 70 percent cloud cover and the solar magnetic cycles that give us a stronger or a weaker heliosphere defense against cosmic rays then also swings our climate, as we either get denser solar reflective clouds or a reduction. Ocean and atmospheric streams move this way and that and move things around a bit, but the basic driver of Earth climate is the sun, the clouds, and cosmic rays. As one scientist put it so poetically, “clouds drive our climate and the stars give our clouds their orders”. Unfortunately the top Russian space and solar science expert (Abdussamatov) tells us we are facing a long weak cycle for solar magnetic output. He predicts a similar event to the “Little Ice Age” for 200 years that will start very soon. He has so far predicted it to start in 2014 and peak about 2055.
hmm, I think they will have to adjust the raw data to remove unqualified respondents. By the morning the results should be in: “97% of readers agree that Mann is an outstanding scientists”.
[+emphasis]
In the interest of pedantic exactitude the bolded name should be Rachel Carson if referring to the author of Silent Spring. So nice that Mr. Mikulecky know how to spell his heroine’s name.
And the comparison to Galileo is just plain ludicrous. MMWB [makes me wanna barf]
2154 Mountain Time: positive choices 3/0/4/15, negative choices 670/236.
So positives are 22/928 or 2.3%. Kos probably didn’t expect it to be quite that lop-sided.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer buhch!
expect them to run a second poll.
And now we enter the adjustment phase, where data that doesn’t match the model is “corrected and homogenized”. Prepare to witness the commissioned result Ladies and Gentlemen, which will be revealed momentarily.
Hint: Get your screenshots now.
Well since the little poll did not offer my preferred option….. MM “is a vicious dishonest sanctimonious gasbag”….. I had to settle for the last of the options, fire him please:
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 3 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 0 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
1% 15 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
72% 687 votes
should be fired from the university
25% 243 votes
I weary of the game — the “for votes have not changed. I smell a set-up.
Good night.
Like 950 votes that he is distorting or should be fired and still the same 25 or so votes that he is groovy.
Very few of those Kos yowlers is are actual scientists. A lot of us are. Eventually, that will have an impact, because ultimately, the reasoning scientific mind discovers–and communicates–truth.
Many PhDs buy the globaloney crap, but it is not actually supported by science, (using the word correctly), so other scientists disagree. The weight of actual evidence and argument is on our side. It will take us a while to overcome all the NSF billions, but we will do it.
As to Mann, he should be fired on the grounds that a “scientist” who mangles statistics is no scientist at all. To be fair to Mikey, though–it took one of the best statisticians in the world to refute him.
Hats off to the true hero–Steve McIntyre!
I agree with Larry
This is a bogus poll
Stop gloating and patting yourselves on the back.
It’s a rediculous result from a kos site
Opa50
The poll, like Mann, is not scientific.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but unless you know the relative humidity, you don’t know the heat content of the air.
Has Mann et al found a tree that gives wet bulb temperatures?
Yeah, only Gleick’s 15 friends and a few accounts they hacked voted positive
Now over 1000 responses.
97% unfavorable — isn’t that the majic number for a settled science concensus?
Summary from 19:21 to 21:14 PDT. (screen shots on file.)
19:21: (2, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
241 distorts evidence, 80 should be fired; Total 342.
19:25: (2, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
256 distorts evidence, 82 should be fired; Total 359.
19:27: (2, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
267 distorts evidence, 84 should be fired; Total 372.
19:30: (2, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
283 distorts evidence, 91 should be fired; Total 395. Now 94% disapprove.
19:39: (2, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
336 distorts evidence, 109 should be fired; Total 466.
19:51: (2, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
390 distorts evidence, 123 should be fired; Total 534
20:00: (2, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
445 distorts evidence, 140 should be fired; Total 606
20:12 (3, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
504 distorts evidence, 156 should be fired; Total 682
20:31 (3, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
590 distorts evidence, 191 should be fired; Total 803
20:51 (3, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
665 distorts evidence, 229 should be fired; Total 916
21:02 (3, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
693 distorts evidence, 246 should be fired; Total 961
21:14 (3, 0, 4, 15) (favorable),
743 distorts evidence, 258 should be fired; Total 1023
Disapproval 97% – the majic value for a settled science concensus
Reductio ad Hitlerum was raised part way through the tirade.
Enough said.
I’m not surprised there are people who consider Mann a hero. Even Jeffrey Dahmer has fans, there’s even a tour of his old haunts.
I can hear the cries of outrage already, and I freely admit it’s not a fair comparison. Dahmer brutally killed at least 17 known victims. The money wasted on Mann’s whipped-up CAGW hysteria could have already saved millions worldwide, millions more will die horrible deaths in poverty and sickness before it winds down, and there are also those who have died and will die from energy poverty due to soaring prices from various Green initiatives and taxes, even here in the “developed world”.
Nope, not a fair comparison at all.
Latest poll:
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 3 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 0 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
1% 15 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
72% 732 votes
should be fired from the university
25% 256 votes
I guess we have a 97% consensus that Mann is a fraud.
POLL
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 3 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 0 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
1% 15 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
72% 724 votes
should be fired from the university
25% 251 votes
Just voted for the “distorting” option. Sort of felt good. Just waiting along with thousands of steelworkers and coalminers here in Australia to vote against the lying carbon dioxide taxing government of Juliar Gillard. Dontcha just love a vote? Thanks for the tip
it’s evident and proven that Michael Mann distorted evidence to prove his point.
I like that ‘we’ didn’t personalise the issue by baying for blood.
w martin (the oz variety) ((oops!))
97.8% for distorting science or being fired out of 1042 total votes.
I think what this is mainly proving is that no one reading Kos bothers reading Mikulecky’s ‘diary’. He seems to have a following of about 22 people. I think people who read this site just upped his click-rate by a factor of 50.
Let’s see … he just read Mann’s book and believed everything Mann wrote. Mann wrote that he is a hero. Therefore Mann is a hero.
That’s pretty wierd logic.
98% on the bottom two right now.
A consensus?
Those vote choices were comedy gold! Fire him, said I.
Here’s what AGW SUPPORTER, Dr. Richard Muller from Berkely had to say about the Hockey Stick. Somehow this was left out of the book:
But now a shock: Canadian scientists Stephen McIntyre and Ross McKitrick have uncovered a fundamental mathematical flaw in the computer program that was used to produce the hockey stick. In his original publications of the stick, Mann purported to use a standard method known as principal component analysis, or PCA, to find the dominant features in a set of more than 70 different climate records.
But it wasn’t so. McIntyre and McKitrick obtained part of the program that Mann used, and they found serious problems. Not only does the program not do conventional PCA, but it handles data normalization in a way that can only be described as mistaken.
Now comes the real shocker. This improper normalization procedure tends to emphasize any data that do have the hockey stick shape, and to suppress all data that do not. To demonstrate this effect, McIntyre and McKitrick created some meaningless test data that had, on average, no trends. This method of generating random data is called “Monte Carlo” analysis, after the famous casino, and it is widely used in statistical analysis to test procedures. When McIntyre and McKitrick fed these random data into the Mann procedure, out popped a hockey stick shape!
That discovery hit me like a bombshell, and I suspect it is having the same effect on many others. Suddenly the hockey stick, the poster-child of the global warming community, turns out to be an artifact of poor mathematics. How could it happen? What is going on?
So the science is settled then, 97 %* of scientists** agree that Michael Mann distorts evidence and/or should be fired from his university.
* there’s a missing 2 %.
** random internet scientists
just got a screen capture at a total of 1187 votes.
Last 2 Q total 97% … now why does that number ring a bell 😉
Two points. The KOS people expected an overwhelming positive vote for M. Mann. When they wake up and seee it is > 90% negative they will take it downa and blame honest scientists (i.e. called deniers by the watermelons) for biasing their crooked poll. Or they will put the word out and block negative votes until it is overwhelming positive for Mann.
I voted that he should be fired, but thought I’d be in a tiny minority. I was stunned when I saw the results of the poll.
I’m sure that when I look at this again later this morning that the missing votes will have been found in the trunk of a car in Minneapolis.
The only way these guys get any traffic is to post something that gets picked up by WUWT. Maybe it’s a test to see how many of us are in the hoard? Or maybe it’s to improve their site ranking? I kinda wish I hadn’t voted or added to it’s page views.
By the time I got to the poll 1230 out of 1256 had supplied one of two correct answers to the poll. Naturally in the comments from the faithful and anointed, these voters were referred to as trolls (presumably sub-human and worthy of eugenic elimination).
I voted at 1256 votes and the tally was: (votes: selection, %)
4: did not choose to become a symbol, 0%
1: has been attacked, 0%
0: is an outstanding scientist, (LOL)
17: all the above, 1%
916: Is distorting evidence to prove his point, 72%
314: should be fired, 25%
And after I finished laughing, I voted for the last selection.
Rest assured, Mann et. al will find a way to adjust the data set to hide the apparent decline in his poll rating here. No doubt it will instead show a fairly flat initial run for today, followed by an uptick tomorrow when more AGW promoters are notified about the need to vote on it. Troll votes are anomalies to be discarded, of course…….
Update on the Daily Kos Michael Mann poll, 03/13/12, 11 PM:
did not choose to becme a symbol:
0% 4 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 1 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
1% 17 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
72% 958 votes
should be fired from the university
25% 334 votes
The left, which I belong to, looks more reasonable all the time.
Headline in DailyKos tomorrow:
In a recent online poll, 75% of participants voted for Dr. Mann to keep his job.
/sarc
Hi William Martin of OZ.Sorry my name was the same as yours.I apologize.Have added of NZ after my name.Sorry for any inconvenience.
Michael Mann is a hero.
And I’m Miss Australia.
LOL
Didn’t bother to vote, don’t want to give their page stats the illusion that people voluntarily read it.
That article along with the attached poll results is the funniest thing I’ve seen in a while. Of course, a “dark force” such as me would think that. I considered remotely combusting the author with my “evil powers” (poof!), but I didn’t want to waste a shot on such an entertaining target.
1380 votes, 26 like Mann. 1364 think he is despicable.
As the lawyers say, never ask a question you don’t already know the answer to.
Of course the results show the effects of a co-ordinated attack by big oil and their denialist lackeys.
But perhaps we have read this post wrong: perhaps Don is a skeptic in warmist clothing, and this is satire. Now that makes some sense ….
If it is satire, the poll results stay up. If not, they will come down.
Re: This poll and the Hockey Stick.
Never fear, Mannian Maths will somehow provide the ‘right’ answer, the inconvenient data (that’s nearly all of it) will somehow be eliminated or ignored.
Current Poll results:
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 4 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 1 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
1% 17 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
72% 1062 votes
should be fired from the university
25% 380 votes
Rachael Carlson? Who’s that?
Mikulecky says on his blog:
“Mann’s research, data, algorithms and code are all online. Anybody can check his work. But nobody has come up with a climate reconstruction that differs substantially from Mann’s studies.”
Obviously the link doesn’t work.
Trust Michael Mann is a C–T
Oh its easy. Mann will invert the poll results, and then say it doesn’t matter.
In my understanding of “hero,” courage is a fundamental component. If Mann is a hero, why is he so afraid to debate the issue in an open public forum (or even a closed academic forum)?
I would imagine that by the time the high priests have rung round the acolytes, the poll figures will change somewhat. However atm 97% of respondents believe that Mann is a schmuck That looks like a consensus to me.
Thing is; the so called missing computer program from Mann, is just a jazzed up version of Mann’s Tic Tac Toe game that he invented when he was in high school, I am serious, this is the real reason that he did not want give it out. Headlines: Mann hockey stick based on Tic Tac Toe” I still cant believe that I spent 10 bucks to read his stupid book. Know the enemy.
Gary Mount says: “Headline in DailyKos tomorrow: In a recent online poll, 75% of participants voted for Dr. Mann to keep his job. /sarc”
Brilliant, Gary. You have a great future ahead of you as a Climatology statistician.
I read the first few paragraphs & then started scanning (I’d already seen many of the block-quoted sections anyway); read the conclusion and thought “He says he’s a scientist – if he actually is, bet he’s a biologist.” I’d know that self-righteous sales-pitch style anywhere, and besides, he wrote admiringly of the mass-murderer, Rachel Carson.
Googled for a few minutes & tracked the Don to Virginia Commonwealth U. Physiology & Biophysics Dept., Emeritus Professor of.
Hmmm . . . surprisingly, he seems to have done some solid research in his younger days. Maybe the Don is in his second childhood. Both the content and tone of his essay scream gullible group-thinker.
So far the results are surprising:
The Poll results says it all! As for the comment re Troll activity – this seems to be the new alarmist tactic of dismissing any facts or feedback that does not fit the party line.
Whilst just as silly as other tactics – it is at least better than any sceptic being labelled Racist as I have been on several occaisions on the bizarre logic that if I was sceptical of AGW then I “obviously” did not care about others in the world and I was, ergo, Racist.
Now is the time more than ever to make the REAL science – the questioning science, the complete rejection of advocasy and consensus in science one of the worlds main priorities.
That said – how strange that the “consensus” as indicated by the Poll gives the results that it does! :0)
Perhaps there is something in the consensus thing after all!!! ;0/
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 5 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 1 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
1% 18 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
72% 1194 votes
should be fired from the university
25% 421 votes
1643 votes
If you link to this poll and vote, are you supplying your email address? Take care.
As there wasn’t an option of, “Is a thoroughly nasty piece of work” I voted for distorted data. BTW has anyone else noticed his cat-like eyes?
Current Poll results:
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 4 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 1 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 4 votes
all of the above
1% 17 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
72% 1106 votes
should be fired from the university
25% 394 votes
With a total of 1526 votes.
That’s 1500 negative votes (98.3% according to my calculator).
Disapointment! There was no option: Should be sued for crimes against humanity.
Mike Mann was an unlikely hero
Who tried to be a good peer-o
But his own hockey stick
Was undone by a “trick”
And reduced his net worth down to zero
Now 1744 out of 1775 for the last two options (1294 distorting, 450 should be fired). 98.25% not impressed with Mann, What an enjoyable start to the day (UK time)! 🙂
I find it funny when a clear consensus, as shown on their poll, is rejected when they don’t like the outcome.
In regard to the content of the Kos piece, there is nothing new, just a rehash of the usual stuff: massive funding by big oil; right wing conspiracy: uncritical acceptance of the words of their hero;yada yada yada.
Inaccurate, partisan, desperate stuff.
Current state of play, 2:00 AM Weds Mar 14th:
Gotta love it, every time these fools put up a poll, they learn what they don’t ever want to know. People ain’t buyin’ it.
97% of the respondents either say Mann is distorting evidence to prove his point, or that he should be fired.
w.
Whenever I look at sites of the pro CAGW variety I always end up feeling a mixture of exasperation and sadness for many of the commenters. Exasperated because no matter what you say and no matter how strong your evidence is to the contrary you know you will not shake their blind faith and they will come back with something like, “Oh it must be true because Michael/Gavin/Greenpeace etc say so”. Sad because many of these people are just ordinary folk who have been duped and are being used as cannon fodder by a certain brand of eco-extremist.
For anyone wanting to sign up to comment you will have to wait. Here is the message I got:
Just as a reminder, there is a 24-hour waiting period for making new comments and a one week waiting period for writing new diaries. This might seem like a long time, but if you’ve got valuable insight that’s worth sharing, it will be worth sharing once your waiting period is over.
@Ken Finney
“The claim we used inverted poll results is ludicrous. Our polling methods are insensitive to the sign of the data.”
Love that poll!
He’s currently got 31 positive votes out of 1869.
Thats a huge 16,586 parts per million.
Currently 1300 plus (including me) for distorting evidence and 400 plus for firing, combined 99% for those two options. I don’t think it’s a good policy for universities to fire academics on account of the quality research work, however poor that work may be. Academic fraud is another matter, but that doesn’t seem to me to be provenin the case of Mann. He’s just an arrogant overrated dunce.
Does KOS stand for Krock of S#%?!
Willis it wont last bet ya will be removed ASAP LOL
Looks like there really is a concensus!
Not really an opinion poll since Anthony released the enormous blog-firepower of WUWT on it.
Should Mann et al. ever start answering their critics with hard science we must be prepared to listen with open minds. In a quantum universe anything is possible.
It is not the job of a scientist to be a hero.
The job of a scientist is simply the advancement of science, nothing more and hopefully nothing less. Scientific integrity plays a significant role in achieving this goal.
I do not consider that advocay has a place in science but to the extent that it does, the role of advocacy in science should be limited to advocating the use of the highest scientific standards and integrity and exposing work which falls short of that standard, .
Looks like we’ve got a CONSENSUS here – how appropriate!
Friends:
This poll is a valuable teaching aid. Screenshots of its progress need to be taken and stored. This was done for the similar UK Science Museum poll that showed similar results until they were “adjusted”. The screen shots prevent later misrepresentation of the “adjusted” results.
AGW-proponents live in a closed circle of people who share a common view and objective. Their blogs (e.g. RC, SKS, etc.) are ‘echo chambers’ where only their extreme views are shown and any alternative is either censored so does not appear or is excoriated and ridiculed with no right of reply. And members of the mass-media have promoted these extreme views for a variety of reasons (not least that a ‘scare story’ is news and ‘nothing is happening’ is not news).
Hence, AGW-promoters are conditioned to believe a one-sided and untrue version of reality (i.e. AGW is a ‘proven’ threat to the world and only evil deniers in the pay of ‘Big Oil’ and ‘Big Coal’ oppose action to deal with it).
But in the real world most people have more important things to care about than AGW. Feeding, clothing, and housing their families in the here and now have higher priority than worrying about changes in the weather that may – or may not – happen several decades in the future.
The AGW-proponents do not see this disconnect between themselves and people who live normal lives because they are isolated in their closed circle. So, they hold polls to prove how most people share their view when most people don’t.
And the polls reveal the reality. So, they adjust the poll data as their ‘heroes’ adjust climate data to make it agree with what they want to think is true.
Richard
At this moment, 98,1% of 1998 votes are negative.
Robin Hewitt says:
March 14, 2012 at 3:11 am
“Not really an opinion poll since Anthony released the enormous blog-firepower of WUWT on it.”
I beg your pardon? Do you have any idea of the Alexa rankings of TPM, Think Progress or Daily Kos? Well, you surely could find out if you wanted to. Obviously you don’t want to.
@ Peter Plail, Marrch 14, 2012 at 2:11 am :
Here’s the version I got:
<blockquote)Please note: There is a 24-hour waiting period for making new comments and a one-week waiting period for writing new diaries. (We know, you're angry NOW!)
I found the assumption (promotion?) of anger on the part of potential commenters to be interesting. It fits the distinct lack of a sense of levity I’ve noticed among my more devotedly alarmist acquaintances. The current 98% negative ain’t gonna help with that, I’m afraid. ☺☺
/dr.bill
@ Peter Plail, Marrch 14, 2012 at 2:11 am :
Here’s the version I got:
[snip . . . double posting . . kbmod]
/dr.bill
DirkH says: “I beg your pardon? Do you have any idea of the Alexa rankings of TPM, Think Progress or Daily Kos? Well, you surely could find out if you wanted to. Obviously you don’t want to”.
Not so much, ‘don’t want to’, so much as, ‘can’t be bothered’. I realise it is important to voice the skeptic viewpoint but the writer is 76, I’m just hoping that that we haven’t scared him.
well it’s not science, but it sure is funny.
Willis – “People ain’t buyin’ it.”
Actually Willis, from the way the numbers jumped after this post, readers of WUWt ain’t buying it.
Not quite the same thing.
“Robin Hewitt says:
March 14, 2012 at 3:11 am
Not really an opinion poll since Anthony released the enormous blog-firepower of WUWT on it.
Should Mann et al. ever start answering their critics with hard science we must be prepared to listen with open minds. In a quantum universe anything is possible.”
Will not happen. People like me have been waiting for years for the CAGW side to answer with serious science. Their glaring lack in that area is why they can’t face serious debate. They always lose. The shadow science they use is designed to look like the real thing while taking in fools. When you remove the somke and mirrors from their presentations and talk truth, you are forced to admit that CAGW is a not a problem. Yes, there was a little warming 15 to 40 years past. And yes you can find some going back to the little ice age. But, that is all they have. Yesterdays news and nothing outside of expected natrual varation.They can’t allow themselfes to give up their smoke or mirrors doing so would cost them their self respect and for many their jobs.
They cannot even allow themselves to consider the possibility they are that wrong. In order to do so they would have to set aside their egos and become honest. Much harder than you think.
Paul
“He has become a symbol for what our future is all about and he did not chose his role. No sane person would have.”
1. He did choose the role.
2. “No sane person would have.” You noticed that, eh?
2012/03/13 18:56: positive choices 2/0/4/12, negative choices 89/38 out of 145.
2012/03/14 07:30 EDT: positive choices 8/2/5/26, negative choices 1553/536 out of 2130.
Keep in mind that this post was put up on March 9th. In the first 3 days, they managed fewer than 145 votes.
John M Reynolds
Wahey!
did not choose to became a symbol 0% 8 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were 0% 2 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being 0% 5 votes
all of the above 1% 26 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point 72% 1553 votes
should be fired from the university 25% 537 votes
Just voted for sacking. A view I have had for some time.
“I have been both a scientist and a political activist for most of my 76 years.”
RED FLAG ALERT! Sorry, can’t have it both ways.
Anthony, you come up with the funniest angles for a good laugh. I read the Mann hagiography and laughed and vomited at the same time, then took a look at the poll (which seemed to be closed), cracked up completely for half an hour, then came back here & caught more of the comments (more laughs) & then one of them said you can still vote if you go directly to the site, not as a link from WUWT, which surprised me because I would have thought they would have torn it down by this (tears are rolling down my face). So I did and then…I voted too! The % for sacking him just went up.
Michael Mann is to be interviewed By Anna Marie Tremonti this morning on CBC’s The Current. Should be amusing.
As far as I’m concerned, Mann is one of those bastards who have done things that have led to my family being made poorer by our stupid Labor government’s “climate change” policies. He influenced them and encouraged them with his BS hoax claims. I’m going to vote again, what the heck!
Ability to vote in poll taken offline about 7:50 AM EST. Final results are:
2187 total votes
2145 negative (98 %)
42 positive (2%)
That was very entertaining to watch!
Oops never mind my last comment, the poll must lock out my computer from further ability to vote by looking at the IP address or something. But the percentages are correct.
We have a new “97% agree” poll !!!! Maybe we should start throwing this back at the alarmists.
If I was Mann I would be very worried as only kooks seem to be supporting him, anyone aware of climate scientists giving him such ring kissing tributes.
And could we help this guy out as he seems to be a bit confused about who Mr Mann is like because it ain’t Galileo.
I just voted, the anti-Mann vote stands at just over 98%
That’s an amazing result, particularly as this is, I assume, a pro-AGW site. Maybe many AGW believers simply can’t stomach the thought of supporting Mann. Deep down, they know he’s a scientific fraud.
There’s one thing that doesn’t compute. Although the vote is overwhelmingly anti-Mann, all the comments seem to be pro-Mann. It does seem these people simply can’t stand the thought of criticism or real debate. Looks like they resorted to Mannian statistics to fix the comments.
Truely, these people are beneath contempt.
Chris
Looks like 97% of repsondents think Mann is a liar! That’s settled science in my book.
Don Mikulecky, prof. emerit. Why isn’t there some “Comical Ali” award you can give to such people? Sacha Baron Cohen might serve as Master of Ceremonies.
Just testing. I just opted for the university to apply a boot to Mr. Mann’s posterior for the 3rd time, all from the same URL. (That does make me some kind of troll, I guess.) So the poll is bogus. The socialists used to be able to rig votes to elect their maximo liders into office with 99% approval – and now they cannot even keep such a charade straight? They have truly lost it.
Almost 2300 votes. 73% for distorting 24% for should be fired.
Either the Kos kids aren’t bothering to vote, or they don’t think highly of Mann either.
Actual Poll Results:
Poll
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 9 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 2 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 5 votes
all of the above
1% 27 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
73% 1678 votes
should be fired from the university
24% 572 votes
| 2293 votes | Vote |
Since ClimateGate it has been made known that Mann is a liar and manipulator of scientific data.
In some peoples perception he has become a hero. A hero for a worthy cause.
Hitler duped many. We should not be surprised if such wrongs-for-rights can occur again, in this present age.
Michael Mann is now being interviewed live in a CBC Toronto studio on the program “The Current” (Mar 14 0930). He is attacking us sceptics, proclaiming “the science”, etc., etc. The program can be heard in later time zones across Canada today and within a day or so at http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/radio/the_current.
The fawning interviewer is stomach-churning.
IanM
Thanks for the heads up and the opportunity to vote. Do you think the Daily Kos is surprised?
John D. said on March 14, 2012 at 5:06 am:
I think it’s just a cookie, I fired up a different browser and the voting options were there.
===
From Chris Wright on March 14, 2012 at 5:10 am:
Nothing so nefarious. The poll went up with the story (and what a story) on the ninth, the Kos regulars chimed in then. Since registration is required for commenting and there’s a waiting period, naturally it’d be awhile for critical comments from those just showing up to be made.
It is curious though that the comment:
was made long before WUWT readers were notified about it. Apparently a tiny number of negative votes among the very few votes back on the ninth was enough to level a charge of denier trolls being present. There are blasphemous heretics among the Kos faithful! We must announce this finding so those led astray by the lies and false rhetoric can be identified and their erroneous views corrected!
From Ulrich Elkmann on March 14, 2012 at 5:38 am:
Maybe the poll allows you to change your vote, in case you hit the wrong button, for a certain amount of time or so many submitted votes, or both. That’s a fair way to do an online poll, in case you change your mind. I just checked my cookies, they can keep track of those voting with a unique user ID cookie. So vote three times for the same thing, it’s still only one vote, provided it’s the same browser and you didn’t purge cookies.
Visiting Mikulecky’s blog revealed this gem regarding his holistic view of science:
“The artificial lines between science, religion, philosophy, politics, and othger(sic) compartments that human thought has been forced into by reductionism are of no real use in this context.”
Yup. I can certainly see why he considers Mann a hero. I’m sure his next essay will be a lengthy tribute to the work of Dr. Peter Venkman…
Wow. On the Daily KOS, the poll results are great:
Out of 2392 votes, only 46 are pro-Mann. It doesn’t matter how the KOS spins it.
Whenever I see “scientist” and “political activist” used to describe an individual, I immediately begin to question the “science” practiced by that individual.
Mann clearly has a PR firm on retainer to create and spin a clueless and self-serving heroic PR story based on the concept of the mono-myth (see Joseph Campbell’s ‘Hero with a Thousand Faces’ for examples of mono-myths).
Problem is Mann, as spun by any PR firm as a mono-mythic underdog hero, cannot displace the darkly opposite stark image of Mann as an unprincipled anti-hero as was shown (for example) in CG1 & CG2.
Anti-hero indeed! I think Mann will turn on his former CG1 & CG2 associates in a heartbeat to save himself when all his self-serving publicity and legal options are exhausted.
John
Am I the only one who noticed you can vote more than once? After I clicked vote, I clicked on Results. On that screen there is a link that says “Vote”; just click away and watch the count for your choice go up each time. I did this three times. Using Firefox 10.0.2.
The mechanics of this poll seem to be completely bungled. Results are meaningless. Probably Kos will eventually figure this out and toss the whole thing.
I should clarify: you need to click on the “Vote” link more than once, you will eventually reach a screen that has both the results AND a Vote button. There is where the magic happens.
Addendum to previous posts: there may be a correction mechanism that operates with a time lag. I just returned to results and the votes in my category were a bit lower than what I saw immediately after I voted.
Robin Hewitt says: @ March 14, 2012 at 3:11 am
Not really an opinion poll since Anthony released the enormous blog-firepower of WUWT on it.
____________________________________
As Peter Plail says: @ March 14, 2012 at 2:11 am
For anyone wanting to sign up to comment you will have to wait. Here is the message I got:
Just as a reminder, there is a 24-hour waiting period for making new comments and a one week waiting period for writing new diaries. This might seem like a long time, but if you’ve got valuable insight that’s worth sharing, it will be worth sharing once your waiting period is over.
___________________________________________
So only those who are already registered on Kos can vote.
The SIGNIFICANT point that I found really fascinating is not the 97% who voted that Mann lies or should get the boot, but the fact that under 50 people out of the 2293 votes voted FOR Mann! We are not even talking close here folks. (From the result of March 14, 2012 at 5:46 am posted by of Allan MacRae)
Either the people who read Kos are not interested and did not bother to vote at all or there are a heck of a lot of non-right wingers who are no longer taken in by the CAGW crap.
The other point is the one I see happen all the time. The assumption that people can be pigeonholed. We see that here on WUWT all the time. Someone new comes on to the blog and ASSumes every one here is not only a right-wing-nut but doesn’t care about the environment too.
I do not know about the rest of you but I really hate being pigeonholed and then herded like a cow.
From Gail Combs on March 14, 2012 at 7:43 am:
Too fast on the trigger. Clearly non-registered can vote, but they can’t comment.
In these times the situation has deteriorated so rapidly that few of us have had a chance to evaluate the impact of what is going on. Science is a threat to the dark forces that are moving to control us all.
snif…never fear, Bambi, because this time “Mann is in the Forest!”
I’m reminded of the saying-
All thieves believe everyone else is a thief.
Gail Combs says:
March 14, 2012 at 7:43 am
I agree, Gail. I used to frequent a few sites swarming with self-righteous environmentalists and occasionally I’d ask one what they had actually done for the environment (other than separating their plastics, glass, metals and newspapers when tossing out their garbage), and except the occasional “cash donation” as a response, couldn’t get a viable response to my question.
I’d counter that as a mining engineer, I worked for a mining company that would take old mining sites that had been trashed by irresponsible fortune seekers in the last century and clean up square miles of old waste dumps, junk piles, dangerous shafts, and toxic tailings, while at the same time providing jobs, precious and base metals to further the cause of humanity, and leave the site almost unrecognizable if one were looking for evidence of mining (except we’d throw in some raptor nesting sites, lakes or wetlands for waterfowl and fish, and wooded areas for larger animals just to appease the happy locals).
The vast majority of these “environmentalists” I encountered are actually “wanna-be’s”–they sit on their green fat asses and talk a lot but do next to nothing–except roil the general populace with their green self-righteousness.
It’s really disgusting.
Bruce Stewart says:
March 14, 2012 at 7:26 am
[ I just returned to results and the votes in my category were a bit lower than what I saw immediately after I voted.]
Smoothing, averaging, zone weighting, proxy vote reconstruction, temporal inversion, a dash of climatology and Voila!
People have voted him a hero.
In November 2010 Don Mikulecy wrote this about himself:-
“I have been a political activist since the sixties. We were developing parallel institutions back then. I helped start the experimental school system In Boston while teaching at Harvard Med. Before that I was the leader of an anti-war/civil rights coalition in Buffalo N.Y. while a faculty member at SUNY. I was a delegate to the New Politics Convention and a supporter if the initiation of Black Power. I worked with Resist and participated in the big draft card turn in at the Justice Department by turning in my draft card on national TV. (I had been a USMC officer 1957-1963.) Fast forward to answer your question, I now am a Senior Fellow in the Center for the Study of Biological Complexity at Virginia commonwealth University”.
Presumably the man who boasts of being a “political activist” from VSA and hence probably an ex-colleague of Mann has other heroes. In the light of his bio. does he place his new hero, Michael Manm, on the same pedestal as his ealier heroes such as Malcolm X and Timothy O’ Leary? .
Wow. There are only 11 comments in the article, and 4 are from the author! And only 41 warmists bothered to vote. If global warming can’t rile up the liberal base, maybe this “war” is over.
“Winning?”
0% 10 votes – did not choose to became a symbol
0% 3 votes – has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 5 votes – Is an outstanding scientist and human being
1% 32 votes – all of the above
73% 2023 votes – is distorting evidence to prove his point
25% 693 votes – should be fired from the university
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Kos kids will not be/cannot be pleased with these results …
.
A very contrite Michael Mann was interviewed this morning (9:30-10:00) on CBC-1 “The Current” by warmster Anna-Maria Tremonte. Of course MM was promoting his book, lambasting the deniers and promoting himself as the true defender of science against such misguided people as Santorum. One would almost think he is looking to become Obama’s science Tsar.
If you can stand half an hour of Mann, you could find the podcast at
Not to many people agree with the essay’s premise that Mann is a hero…… about one percent think so…. the rest think he distorts evidence or should be fired.
His “hockey stick” graph was the worst piece of science in the modern era…. certainly in light of the politics that surrounds the whole issue of the AGW hypothesis.
I have been both a scientist and a political activist for most of my 76 years.
Really! Sounds like a conflict of interest. I don’t think you can be both.
Science is a threat to the dark forces that are moving to control us all.
Is he kidding?! It’s people like him who are looking to control us all, not the “dark forces” of climate skepticism.
Amazing survey choices. Especially following a story such as that.
I think someone has not too subtly set Mann up for a fall! 🙂
On my 9:53 comment above the CBC’s URL was dropped. I’ll spell it out:
www dot cbc dot ca slash thecurrent where it is currently the third-listed past program item
At 1900hrs GMT on 12 March:-
Poll
Michael Mann
did not choose to became a symbol
0% 10 votes
has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% 3 votes
Is an outstanding scientist and human being
0% 5 votes
all of the above
1% 32 votes
is distorting evidence to prove his point
73% 2135 votes
should be fired from the university
25% 736 votes
| 2922 votes | Results
I held my nose and voted in the Daily Kos’ ridiculous poll.
I am not much younger than the author of the article extolling Mann, but I suspect he has slipped over the edge of reason.
Mann is a legend and hero in his own mind. Reality and a careful examination of his alternative reality says otherwise.
OK, at this point the votes are roughly 2900 negative to 50 positive.
This would appear to reflect the relative popularity of WUWT and Kos. It may also reflect the fact that Mann’s hockey stick is the most comprehensively discredited object in modern science since Piltdown Man(n?).
And, as we have come to expect, the Left is once again comforting itself with its smugly complacent sense of moral superiority — which, after all, is the whole point of Leftist ideology…
I thought the article was a spoof. I was waiting for the punchline, the sudden turn as he pounces for the kill. But having read the comments, I realise it wasn’t a spoof at all.
It would be as if Monty Python’s Holy Grail – exactly as we remember it with knights on imaginary horses, knights that say “nik”, a killer rabbit, etc – was intended not as a comedy, but as a period drama to be viewed as a factual representation of the medieval period.
Shocking.
Phil Clarke says:
March 14, 2012 at 4:17 am
Yes, the “he should be roasted until well done” numbers are high.
But on the Daily Kos, which is an uber-leftist site, you’d expect a number of his supporters to have shown up. Let me take a look … yep, you are right that the number of “hold his feet to the fire” votes have risen. And someone else is right that they’d close the poll. They did, with about 3000 votes compared to the 1900 I’d reported on above.
But in all of that, out of about 3,000, Mann got a total of 50 votes in his favor, even including the fact that four out of the six questions were of the “he’s a great guy, give him a Nobel prize” variety.
So Phil, I’d say Daily Kos readers ain’t buyin’ it either … which was my point. What was surprising was not the number of votes against him, but the amazing scarcity of votes for him.
w.
98% of the votes are against Mann. Amazing on the Daily Kos. Only 51 of almost 3000 votes in favor of him. I voted against after years of research on my own. Now where is my big oil check.
I have no strong position on this man one way or the other, but I felt I had to comment on the atrocious grammar in the poll.
The votes are still being counted. And I still smell a rat.
Good for Daily Kos, probably their best day ever for hits.
When I read what seemed to me to be a poorly researched, ill-considered opinion piece by someone with a CV like Don Mikulecy’s, I worry. Did I miss his point?
It’s amazing that he is willing to go to press with so little knowledge of Mann’s work. There must be more to being admirable than being dedicated, which Mann certainly is.
I wonder why it may never have occurred to Mikulecy that there might be something to the well constructed careful analyses of his work which tend to show it at best weak, and at worst …
William Martin in NZ says:
March 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm
I’m sure with the poll results,we could make a TRUE hockey stick.LOL
William. That is a true classic, it would make a great cartoon Idea for JOSH. I laughed till I cried.
I first thought the poll had closed. Then I read above that only if you link from WUWT is it closed. So pasted the link in and voila the poll was OPEN!. There were an additional 10 votes from when I tried before. I voted Fire the bastard! since that seemed the worst you can do to manny boy in that poll.
I took a screenshot as Mr. Courtney suggested above, just in case.
If WUWT’s mighty armada of heathen infidels are to blame for all of those negative votes, I would definitely be surprised. Especially since anything posted on WUWT is often very quickly mirrored on other sites, both CAGW alarmist and CAGW unbelievers.
As Willis points out, not only are the pro-votes scarce given the KOS members voting pro, but it is incredibly low when one considers that other pro-CAGW sites surely must be encouraging readers to vote.
One also wonders if all of mann boy’s very pro five star A____ reviewers have also voted for him, and are helping to drive up manny’s numbers.
My vote brings the percentage total up to 98.27% AGAINST, with 25% to can the bum! Is this poll admissable in Canadian courts for use by defendants?
I think Dave A came close. It doesn’t matter if ALL these votes came from WUWT readers, it’s a statistical probe into the “influence” of the Daily KOS.
GUYS, we are WINNING! They are merely WHINING (what a difference two letters can make.)
HAHAHA! They don’t even have MINIONS any more. They are dropping by the wayside.
I’m stunned. NOW next fall, AT THE BALLOT BOX!
Max H.
Here is a classic warmist Idea of the Hockeystick over at Daily Kos.
The denialist industry has seized on the hockeysti (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Portlaw, don mikulecky
like a dog on a chew toy. And the industry is big. Forbes and Wall Street Journal regularly run denialist pap. When they bring up the hockeystick (which is a reconstruction of climate up to 2000 years ago, expressed as a graph) the default assumption is that Mann “manipulated data.” He is often called a fraud or charlatan or worse. Often, commenters express a desire that he be jailed.
Mann’s research, data, algorithms and code are all online.
Anybody can check his work. But nobody has come up with a climate reconstruction that differs substantially from Mann’s studies.
And he is studying climates of the past. It baffles me that he has become the Immanuel Goldstein of the fossil fueled delusionists.
******************************************************************************************************
And here is Don Mikulecky pathetic excuse. Hey Don how many warmers does it take to make your article of faith true??:
Don Mikulecky: You can see from the poll that we have some trolls (0+ / 0-)
from the deniers here
An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.
Yeah Don, Mann and his fraudulent reconstruction MWP/ LIA failed the scientific stink test a long time ago!!!
It’s a Pity Don Mikulecky doesn’t take this seriously or he would reexamine his belief in Mann and the his and all alarmist fraudulent reconstruction of climate data and science.
Poll results so far shows that it’s a travesty. It’s worse than we thought! They lose debates and votes. They must now realise that they are a small minority of deluded Warmists.
Michael Mann:
0% – did not choose to became a symbol
0% – has been attacked in many of the same ways that the President and John Kerry were
0% – Is an outstanding scientist and human being
1% – all of the above
72% – is distorting evidence to prove his point
25% – should be fired from the university
3,048 Total votes cast
“I have been both a scientist and a political activist for most of my 76 years.”
I don’t see how one could be both…
Hmmm, maybe the next time they run a poll, the need to institute a voter ID system. That way, they can control the outcome better.
If they really do it right, they might even be able to get a 97% in agreement result.
It is surprising though the low number of votes Mann got. Where are the 97% of climate scientists? Where is the IPCC, team, CRU, Greenpeace supporters, WWF supporter et al. to lend support? Are these people slow off the mark? I thought they wanted action now so why not demonstrate it?
John M says: “Hmmm, maybe the next time they run a poll, the need to institute a voter ID system. That way, they can control the outcome better.”
What makes you think they didn’t?
So the Kos has a juicy dilemma on their hands–do they show Mann the results of this poll, or tell him they lost their data? (Phil Jones would be proud.)
I suppose they could always pull a Gleick and blame somebody else–especially those nasty “deniers”.
You can still vote here [scroll down to the poll].
Poll option:
“Is an outstanding scientist and human being” Only NINE votes out of 3,000+.
Sheesh! Adolf would get more than that in a synagogue.
Maybe Josh could show a cartoon in which Mann is using an elongated hockey stick to leap to “hero” status on the pole vault–with the stick breaking just as he launches.
Hey, it’s just an idea…
I hardly ever read Daily Kos.
The people who comment on it sound like ward heelers.
But it could be that Michael Mann is no longer seen as helpful the cause of putting Democrats in office by any means necessary.
I believe you have to log in at KOS to comment perhaps, or they’ve closed comments. One or the other.
Willis is right, it is surprisingly refreshing to see how many people see clear the situation:
all of the above: 1% 40 votes (with another 25 above)
is distorting evidence to prove his point: 71% 2618 votes
should be fired from the university: 26% 977 votes
out of 3663 votes