Dr. Peter Gleick recently resurfaced at another water conference acting as if nothing had or is about to happen just 17 days after admitting he apparently engaged in wire fraud. One wonders if he’ll be seen at this big event or if he has been asked to quietly sit this one out.- Anthony
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Experts: Integrate global water, food and energy policies to divert future conflict
Current and future solutions to the conflicts over the use of water resources discussed by public and private sector experts
This press release is available in French.
MARSEILLES, FRANCE March 11th — As food and energy production intensify around the world, their demands on dwindling water resources have prompted the search for an innovative and collaborative solution. On Friday, March 16, a High Level Panel convened by the EDF Group and the CGIAR Challenge Program on Water and Food (CPWF) will gather in Marseilles at the Sixth World Water Forum (WWF6) to share experiences and results.
The panel will discuss how to embrace a “nexus” approach to water management, in which projects that tap water resources are planned and executed with input from stakeholders in the food, water and energy sectors. A key goal of the panel is to insert this approach into the agenda of the Rio+20 United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development that will be held in June 2012.
“We live in a world today where all too often development policies seem almost perfectly designed to produce conflict between multiple sectors, particularly energy and agriculture, over water resources,” said Alain Vidal, Director of CPWF, which is part of the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR).
Uschi Eid, Vice Chair of the United Nations Secretary General’s Advisory Board on Water and Sanitation, will open the panel. Other participants include:
- Alain Vidal, Director of CPWF;
- Gérard Wolf, Senior Executive Vice President, International Development, EDF Group, one of the world’s largest electricity companies with 640 dams worldwide;
- Yasar Yakis, Turkey’s former Minister of Foreign Affairs;
- Ogunlade Davidson, Sierra Leone’s Foreign Minister of Energy and Water Resources;
- Jane Madgwick, CEO of Wetlands International;
- Gustavo Francisco Petro Urrego, Mayor of Bogota, Colombia; and
- Anil B .Jain, Managing Director (CEO) of Jain Irrigation Systems, based in India.
The EDF – CPWF High Level Panel’s work is driven by the problems and tensions that emerge when officials in both the public and private sectors fail to consider how water management decisions simultaneously affect energy, drinking water and food production.
These complementary, but often clashing areas of interest were the subject of last year’s Bonn2011 Nexus Conference and are expected to be prominent at the 2012 World Water Week in Stockholm this fall. The concern among many water experts is that the nexus approach to water management is rarely applied today, and that increases the likelihood of water-related conflicts, particularly as economic development accelerates in rapidly changing areas of Asia, Africa and Latin America.
Vidal noted that with 1.1 billion poor people lacking access to safe water, 1 billion undernourished and 1.5 billion lacking electricity, demand for water resources for multiple uses will rise dramatically over the next decades.
“The world is now a very different place because addressing insecurities related to food, energy and water –particularly in the world’s least developed countries–is now at the forefront of development strategies around the globe,” Vidal said. “We know that in the next decade hundreds of dams are going to be built and the question is, how can we ensure that before the projects begin all of the potential beneficiaries sit down together and discuss the purpose of the dam and the pros and cons of various approaches?”
Laos, for example, is facing criticism that without a nexus perspective, efforts by the energy sector to build dams in the Mekong basin to become the “battery of Asia” could damage fish-dependent communities in the region and exacerbate the existing problem of saltwater intruding into farmlands in Vietnam.
The severity of last year’s floods in Thailand and elsewhere in Southeast Asia has raised fresh concern about the way water flows are controlled in the region. There are questions about whether water management decisions in the region’s network of dams intensified the flooding of agriculture lands—though there are also policies in Thailand for compensating farmers who lose their crops to flooding that could inform the broader nexus discussion.
The Panel will also examine India’s effort to expand drip irrigation projects as it confronts the daunting disparity between available water resources and future food, energy, clean water and economic development needs. A 2005 World Bank report warned that by 2050, absent a more focused and coordinated water management strategy, India’s various water demands will exceed “all sources of supply.”
Vidal said there is evidence that recognizing the multiple demands on water resources can lead to innovative efforts aimed at cooperation. For example, at the World Water Forum, the High Level Panel will examine a case study of the Andean region where numerous clashes between various sectors vying for the water resources in the Machángara River Basin prompted the creation of the Machángara River Basin Council, (the Consejo de la Cuenca del río Machángara or CCRM).
The council’s membership includes the regional water and sewerage authority, the irrigation management agency, the main electric power utility, the national water secretariat, the Ministry of Environment (which protects the forests that cover much of the basin) and small-scale farmers from the area. They are working together to facilitate cooperation among all of the water users in the basin for sustainable development that increases the water, food and energy productivity while also protecting the ecosystem’s services.
The CGIAR Challenge Program on Water and Food (CPWF) was launched in 2002 as a reform initiative of the CGIAR. The CPWF aims to increase the resilience of social and ecological systems through better water management for food production (crops, fisheries and livestock). The CPWF does this through an innovative research and development approach that brings together a broad range of scientists, development specialists, policymakers and communities to address the challenges of food security, poverty and water scarcity. The CPWF is currently working in six river basins globally: Andes, Ganges, Limpopo, Mekong, Nile and Volta (www.waterandfood.org).
Another meeting of the great and good from where ?? EDF have been pushing their green initiative for some time mainly, I think, to sell nuclear power stations.
There is another of the greenie beenies advertising a program for CNBC with the classic “be afraid” phrase “what do we do when we run out of water”. I’ve the answer : Put the plug back in.
Sure, why shouldn’t he appear?
He has only been involved in illegal activity against SKEPTICS. It is not as if he has done anything wrong..
..
/sarc
Coincidentally today it was also announced somewhat hysterically that there are to be hosepipe bans in the south east of the UK to combat an ‘unprecedented’ drought. Probably nothing, but the professional sceptic in me is just wondering why all this talk of water right now, and how it will translate into someone getting richer 😉
“The panel will discuss how to embrace a “nexus” approach to water management…”
Is this different from the “fuxus” approach that the Obama Administration has take towards energy management?
I have been thinking for a long time that the next fake crisis to replace global warming/climate change would be a water crisis. Already I’ve seen CBS news do a report about the coming potable water crisis. Do you think the UN and these so-called scientists will give up their easy money and power? I don’t. I personally believe they will find about crisis to invent.
It’s Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Drying. Its new and its heading our way – hide your wallets.
A new impetus for integrating global water policies could guide the energy and agriculture to the exit from the impasse
Experts from public and private sectors discuss the current and future solutions to conflicts on the use of water resources
Translation of the French title.
March 12, 2012 at 2:11 pm | quidsapio says:
Coincidentally today it was also announced somewhat hysterically that there are to be hosepipe bans in the south east of the UK to combat an ‘unprecedented’ drought. Probably nothing, but the professional sceptic in me is just wondering why all this talk of water right now, and how it will translate into someone getting richer 😉
====================================
During our drought in Queensland, Australia, our State Government banned watering gardens and ‘rationed’ water. It also re-organised how water resources were managed taking ownership of water distribution and retailing away from Local Authorities and creating a number of quangos. As a consequence, consumption dropped remarkably which then created a problem for its water revenues, so it increased the cost of water to users. We now have our dams full and overflowing, we still have restrictions in place, and we have some of the most expensive water in the world.
It occurred to me that if the State Government were now to sell-off the Water businesses that it created in the artificially created market, there would be a pretty penny in it for them at the expense of the consumer. Having sold off most of every other income producing asset, it would not surprise me if this were the motive of the State Government in the first instance.
Just saying 😉
That’s naughty, jorge. Funny, but naughty.
This article:
Global WaterIntelligence
Market Leading Analysis of the international Water Industry:
“The tender process for the contract to run water services for the Lagos State Water Corporation (LSWC) is starting to trigger interest in the Nigerian water sector as a whole. A federal bill permitting widespread private involvement in the sector is completing its passage through the legislature and a series of other contracts may follow the Lagos concession. However, any foreign private companies interested in Nigeria will face a multitude of challenges as well as opportunities….” http://www.globalwaterintel.com/archive/3/6/general/challenging-times-ahead-in-nigeria.html
I had seen an article several years ago that Water Authorities here in the USA were being sold to foreign investors and was looking for a link when I stumbled on to this site which has far wider implications.
It is interesting to observe the intellectual conflict that modern socialists have with dams. On the one hand, dams, especially really big ones, fit the old socialist paradigm, while environmentalists see dams as the epitomy of human arrogance and evil. Discussion of the subject tends to break open many watermelons.
I notice the British politicos and journos are pushing the threat of a drought (as they often do at this time of year). Of course they are forgetting that we still have most of March, the whole of April and May before summer.
Therefore we can be sure they have now cursed us with unending wet whilst I’m doing an extension and loft conversion.
Friends:
Several of the above posts rightly observe that we need to be vigilant to prevent the next false scare now AGW is in its death throes. That is very true, but we also need to avoid turning scepticism into cynicism.
At this stage we need to observe the intended Conference with great interest in its details before deciding appropriate response. Knee-jerk reaction prior to such observation could result in ‘shooting our own feet’.
The article says about the purpose of the Conference;
“The panel will discuss how to embrace a “nexus” approach to water management, in which projects that tap water resources are planned and executed with input from stakeholders in the food, water and energy sectors. A key goal of the panel is to insert this approach into the agenda of the Rio+20 United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development that will be held in June 2012.
“We live in a world today where all too often development policies seem almost perfectly designed to produce conflict between multiple sectors, particularly energy and agriculture, over water resources,” said Alain Vidal, Director of CPWF, which is part of the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR).”
OK. If that is true then the stated purpose is to usurp the dangerous UN Sustainable Development and thus to obtain developments beneficial to energy producers, farmers and water users.
And if that stated purpose is the real purpose then we need to support this Conference against the attacks it will receive from ‘greenies’.
But we need to oppose the Conference if we discern that the stated purpose is a fraud and this is merely another front for ‘greenie’ attacks on energy supplies, on farmers and on the poor.
And Gleick would be unwelcome whether or not the stated purpose of the Conference is true.
Richard
Is it just me, or do all of these conferences come to the same conclusion. The world will end unless we all submit to the benevolent dictats of big green brother. Seriously, if they want one world communism they should just say so. Of course the result would be their being laughed off the world stage.
I now see 1984 and newspeak every time I see the word “green” in the local paper. We had an article on a traffic accident that led with something like: The driver pulled out at the green light and was struck by a drunk driver. As I was scanning the page rather than reading, I thought it was another government attempt at stealing personal liberty. Still a tragedy that the driver is in the hospital and the drunk is now a statistic, but not what raised my blood pressure.
“The panel will discuss how to embrace a “nexus” approach to water management, in which projects that tap water resources are planned and executed with input from stakeholders in the food, water and energy sectors.”
Nowhere in their list of “stakeholders” (that left wing feel-good word that means nothing) do they mention the poor bloody retail consumer. Looks like another ruse to extract even greater amounts of wonga from us the public.
NOTE: no sarc!
– ITV News briefly just mentioned option of UK buying desal plants. (Maybe Oz has a few secondhand ones to sell) Ridiculous of course cos our water us so badly managed with lots of leaks & good water flowing out to sea in “drought areas” as farmers don’t take up their allocation… Better invest in dingies & wellies.
Can I just say I am always baffled at the way some sceptics characterise the prevailing Warmist orthodoxy as ‘Leftist’. Maybe it’s just a confusion of terms, but to me what you are calling ‘Leftist’ might be more properly termed Fascist? The AGW movement does indeed have strong developing fascist tendencies, including Irrational adherence to a fixed idea, demands of absolute conformity and the outlawing of all dissent. Maybe we should even update Jim Garrison’s prediction – fascism will arrive in America, not in the name of anti-fascism but in the name of Environmentalism.
Depressing to have to admit that for a former member of Greenpeace 🙁
I’m sure Gleick will be there if he can find someone to pay his air fare.
Did they inventory the silverware and candleholders after the event??
And right on time! As I type, the BBC’s flagship ‘Newsnight’ program is talking to climate scientists about the UK hosepipe ban. We have to prepare for more dryness, and more wetness, apparently. Words fail…..
The people of the developing world (and of the developed world, for that matter) need abundant energy and water. To answer these needs, China and India have embarked on ambitious programs to fill future energy through Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors (LFTR). A bonus of creating safe, inexpensive, and abundant energy via LFTR is that they operate at their best at full power, and that excess energy produced can be readily utilized for desalinization or purification. The US developed LFTR and operated a test reactor for years, beginning over 50 years ago.
No matter the turns natural climate change takes, abundant energy and water will always be the answer to future needs.
quidsapio says:
March 12, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Can I just say I am always baffled at the way some sceptics characterise the prevailing Warmist orthodoxy as ‘Leftist’. Maybe it’s just a confusion of terms, but to me what you are calling ‘Leftist’ might be more properly termed Fascist? ……
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Actually you might want to look into “The Third Way” (Anthony Giddens) the London School of Economics, Fabian Society Bill Clinton and Tony Blair. Do not miss Tony Blair’s connection to both the United Nations, JP Morgan investment bank and the middle east mess.
Richard S Courtney says:
March 12, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Friends:
Several of the above posts rightly observe that we need to be vigilant to prevent the next false scare now AGW is in its death throes. That is very true, but we also need to avoid turning scepticism into cynicism…..
____________________________________
Richard, It is hard not to be at least cautious if not down right cynical when you see an international conference composed of politicians and government bought and paid for scientists meeting about “Policies” (Shudder)
The advice: “No Man’s life liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session”. applies doubly when it is an international group who is answerable to no one.
After what the World Trade Organization “Agreement on Agriculture” did to farmers and the world food supply, I reserve the right to be very very cynical.
see: http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/GMO/World_Trade_Order/world_trade_order.html
majormike1 says:
March 12, 2012 at 4:42 pm
The people of the developing world (and of the developed world, for that matter) need abundant energy and water. To answer these needs, China and India have embarked on ambitious programs to fill future energy through Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors (LFTR)…..
_____________________________________
Unfortunately the Japanese Fukushima mess could not have come at a worst time. The fact that No One Died From Radiation Exposure at Fukushima has not kept the Chicken Littles from running around screaming their heads off.
Hopefully this does not kill Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors in the USA, UK, Canada Australia and else where
Gail Combs:
Thankyou for your post at March 12, 2012 at 5:13 pm.
I understand and accept your point. Indeed, I think the fisheries agreement is even worse than the agricultural one.
However, I stand by the point I made in my post at March 12, 2012 at 3:19 pm; viz. observe and assess then support or oppose as appropriate. Please note that this is a tactical evaluation. My history proves that my suggestion is sincere and is not a delaying tactic from a ‘greenie’ troll.
I would welcome comments on the differing opinions stated in your and my posts.
Richard
***Schoof takes 15 paras to mention Gleick/Fakegate, and i’ve excerpted all that is written on the subject:
11 March: Sacbee: Renee Schoof: GM under a global warming cloud
GM vehicle buyers have posted online comments objecting to the GM Foundation’s gifts of $30,000 in the past two years to the Heartland Institute, a free-market advocacy organization that publicizes its disagreement with prevailing scientific views about evidence of climate change…
The foundation’s $15,000 annual gift in 2010, repeated in 2011, went to the Heartland Institute’s general funds, not its climate program, said GM spokeswoman Carolyn Markey…
Heartland contends that global warming has stopped, a view that is contradicted by global data and reports from many scientists, including those at NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. NOAA, for example, has reported that each of the last three decades has been warmer than the decade before…
***The Heartland Institute keeps its donors secret. The recent GM Foundation grants and other contributions were disclosed in documents obtained by Peter Gleick, president of the Pacific Institute, an environmental research and advocacy organization.
Gleick admitted last month that he got the documents by asking for them in someone else’s name. He forwarded the documents to bloggers who posted them in February. Gleick is on leave and his institute has hired an independent firm to investigate.
Heartland dubbed the case “fakegate.” It announced Monday that it hired a legal team to represent it in the conflict with Gleick…
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/11/4326501/gm-under-a-global-warming-cloud.html
Ah yes the NEXUS approach, not unlike the MATRIX, GRID, UNION, SUSTAINABLE, SMART, GREEN, ECO, CONCENSUS approach.
Where numerous unelected officials put their clammy hands deep into the pockets of the public, rummage around a bit, then remove heart, lungs, kidneys, liver and brains – oh and cash, lots of cash.
I say we start de-icing the Antarctic, if the not-actually-happening global weathering doesn’t beat us to it first, imagine the market value of a 1 metre by 1 metre block of 750,000 year old blue Antarctic ice.
Business opportunities abound!
Slap some vodka in a tall glass with it, and call it Absolute(ly) Priceless.
After all its not that we lack water, its just its filled with salt and fish and plastic and urine. Oh and boats and oil, nuclear waste, old bicycles, submarines, naval wreckage, the odd helicopter and Amelia Earhart.
Can’t help but think this NEXUS of Hive-minded individuals, will simply debauch into the typical “There’s too many people nothing a good cull wouldn’t fix” attitude. Odd how both Left and Right extremists meet in the middle, to warm their hands on a burning pile of human bodies, how much carbon is realeased when that happens? Is that a variety of Urban Island Heat?
Well its about time the jack-wagons started to think holistically. Energy, water, and food production are not separate issues. Let’s see it the nits can come up with anything insightful.
What’s the probability?
jeeeeezzz who is stealing the water? are they shipping it to another planet?
lol …we all know this is just another of the alarmist tools of disinformation.
hey warmers …just a little bit of honesty …please
Owen in GA and quidsapio:
I really, really like your posts at March 12, 2012 at 3:28 pm and March 12, 2012 at 3:38 pm, respectively.
Owen says;
“I now see 1984 and newspeak every time I see the word “green” in the local paper.”
And quidsapio says;
“Can I just say I am always baffled at the way some sceptics characterise the prevailing Warmist orthodoxy as ‘Leftist’. Maybe it’s just a confusion of terms, but to me what you are calling ‘Leftist’ might be more properly termed Fascist?”
Yes, it is fascist and uses the language is newspeak.
I often advise people to not disbelieve ‘greenie’ statements but, instead, to believe the exact opposite of ‘greenie’ statements. This advice will prove wrong on very rare occasions but is almost always right for a simple reason; viz.
Green philosophy is a distorted world-view.
Talking to a ‘greenie’ now is like talking to a Marxist-Leninist 1n the 1980s before the Berlin Wall came down. The world-view of those old communists was distorted so they made statements that any rational person could see were nonsense, but they made their statements with such complete belief and conviction that many took them seriously.
‘Greenies’ now have a distorted world-view so they make statements that any rational person can see are nonsense, but they make their statements with such complete belief and conviction that many take them seriously.
This similarity of behaviour implies to many that those old communists and ‘greenies’ hold similar views. They don’t, but they are both completely deluded.
The Romantic Naturalism of most ‘greenies’ was first introduced by a government in Germany in the late 1930s. Planting trees was a national policy.
Communism and fascism each leads to totalitarianism. And totalitarianism is the enemy of all who desire freedom and liberty.
As TsunTsu said two millennia ago,
“Know your enemy if you want to defeat him”.
And this ancient dictum is the reason for my post in this thread at March 12, 2012 at 3:19 pm.
Richard
“…at the Sixth World Water Forum (WWF6)…”
Amazing. The WWF (panda people) got mad at the WWF (wrestling), forcing the WWF to re-brand as the WWE, yet don’t seem to be upset that the WWF (water people) use the same initials to spread their “greenie” message.
So how do I know that my last donation went to the right WWF?
I’m so confused…
The water is there, it’s just not accessible. On a recent vacation in Tanzania it was obvious there was no water shortage. In fact, they had a water abundance, but no effective distribution system to move it from being a wasted abundance to filling valuable needs. Of course, the same analyses apply to food and to a certain extent, energy; often exceeding need at a time and place, and the excess not being capable of transmission or storage to fill needs at another time or place. Usually governments are the limiting factor, and corruption determines the governments. Increasing energy production and greatly reducing corruption will increase prosperity, and prosperity solves problems through adaptation regardless of the direction and magnitude of natural climate changes.
Prosperity. It works every time it’s tried.
David S says:
March 12, 2012 at 3:48 pm
I’m sure Gleick will be there if he can find someone to pay his air fare.
———————-
.. and as long as they disclose their funding.
Congruent to the water summit is a meeting in Bangkok, where Asia-Pacific countries are demanding $40 billion a year until 2050 “to neutralise the impacts of climate change”. Get your wallets ready.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/$40-bn-needed-yearly-in-Asia-to-help-climate-30177808.html
quidsapio says:
March 12, 2012 at 3:38 pm
“Can I just say I am always baffled at the way some sceptics characterise the prevailing Warmist orthodoxy as ‘Leftist’. Maybe it’s just a confusion of terms, but to me what you are calling ‘Leftist’ might be more properly termed Fascist?”
The National Socialist Movement was/is a very left movement, another name for it was “people’s nationalism”. It was, in the beginning, anti big business, anti-bourgeois, anti capitalist and for the people’s purity of land (early environmentalism because of the contamination of the Ruhr valley).
After achieving power, however, other agendas were promulgated; national registration based on economic and racial lines, universal abortion of undesirable children (deformed, and those who didn’t live up to the standards of eugenics) and the economic reformation of the nation after the housing crises that occurred in the early ’30s……fuel crises continued during the nazi regime, and travel documents were “required to save fuel”. Any of this sound familiar?
Many people labour under the delusion that Fascism or Nazism were right wing political movements, but are horribly shocked to find that the “Socialism” part of the name is very apt.
dtbronzich says:
March 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm
quidsapio says:
March 12, 2012 at 3:38 pm
==========================
Great posts. Typical of the left and even more so the fake-left who are always in there with the fake meme first – National Socialism was some right wing nutjobs. Yeah right.
One wonders what it is with Joel Shore and R. Gates et al. ?? They want to be high level staffers of the post-modern Josef Goebbels or Trofim Lysenko office equivalent ?? Just asking.
Richard S Courtney says:
March 12, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Gail Combs:
Thankyou for your post at March 12, 2012 at 5:13 pm.
I understand and accept your point. Indeed, I think the fisheries agreement is even worse than the agricultural one….
___________________________________
There is another connection that makes me so cynical.
A few years ago Food & Water Watch had a very good paper showing the money and connections between the USDA and Corporations like Cargill, ADM, Monsanto… At the same time Organic Consumers had a graph showing the increase in food borne diseases after WTO AoA was implemented. Both these key pieces of information disappeared. Shortly there after Organic Consumers backed HR 875 and later the Food Safety Modernization Act of 2010 that turned control of the US food supply over to the WTO.
The Connection between Food & Water Watch and Organic Consumers is Maude Barlow who is a director of both. She was “rewarded” for selling the US farmers out with an appointment as New Senior Advisor to the UN president on October 21, 2008.
Maude Barlow named 1st UN water adviser http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2008/10/21/barlow-appt.html
…Maude Barlow, best-selling Canadian author and human rights activist, is the chair of the board of Food & Water Watch. She is also an executive member of the San Francisco–based International Forum on Globalization, …. http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/maude-barlow/
…Maude Barlow is a member of OCA’s Policy Board…. Barlow is part of an international movement-of governments, scientists, and activists-working to bring a focus on environmental rights to the ongoing United Nations climate negotiations…. http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_22181.cfm
HR875 view by OCA: (Pro HR875) http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17419.cfm
Veiw if HR 875 by a lawyer: Trojan Horse Law: The Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009: Trojan Horse Law: The Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009
And just in case you were wondering Barlow is the author of “Blue Covenant: The Global Water Crisis and the Coming Battle for the Right to Water”…. See Earth Day Special: Vandana Shiva and Maude Barlow on the Rights of Mother Earth http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/22/earth_day_special_vandana_shiva_and
OOPS
I forgot to add this link
View of HR 875 by a lawyer: Trojan Horse Law: The Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009: Trojan Horse Law: The Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009 http://www.examiner.com/scotus-in-washington-dc/trojan-horse-law-the-food-safety-modernization-act-of-2009
Interesting read BTW. He states that bill would allow regulation and inspection of home gardens!!!
Fitzy says:
March 12, 2012 at 5:33 pm
Ah yes the NEXUS approach…
___________________________________
ROTFLMAO… I needed a good laugh and adding in Amelia Earhart was Absolute(ly) Priceless.
majormike1 says:
March 12, 2012 at 6:18 pm
….. Usually governments are the limiting factor, and corruption determines the governments. Increasing energy production and greatly reducing corruption will increase prosperity, and prosperity solves problems through adaptation regardless of the direction and magnitude of natural climate changes.
Prosperity. It works every time it’s tried.
_________________________________________________
Amen to that. Increasing energy production => Prosperity even “solves” the population growth problem. It is third world countries, where children are used as free labor in Subsistence Agriculture, who have sky high birth rates.
philincalifornia says:
March 12, 2012 at 7:25 pm
One wonders what it is with Joel Shore and R. Gates et al. ?? They want to be high level staffers of the post-modern Josef Goebbels or Trofim Lysenko office equivalent ?? Just asking.
___________________________________
Given all the information appearing about “Global Governance” and the need to weaken national sovereignty for the “Good of Mother Earth”, I am sure they hope to have nice cushy high level jobs in the slowly forming world government. That is what this whole CAGW mess has been about. An excuse to wipe out sovereign nations and replace it with an unelected world government as we can see happening in Europe with the EU.
“The concept of national sovereignty has been an immutable, indeed sacred, principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation. It is simply not feasible for sovereignty to be exercised unilaterally by individual nation states, however powerful. The global community must be assured of environmental security.” Maurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit, 1992
There are those who think the world should be governed by the “Techno-Elite” instead of the “Great Un-washed” No doubt this is a really great lure and explains the steadfast disregard for scientific truth.
For what it is worth:
Joel Shore, seems to have a Ph.D. Physics from Cornell University. http://www.rit.edu/academicaffairs/gwteachin/schedule.html (Gack, I though R.I.T. had better taste than this, they used to have very good courses.)
R. Gates seems to be a Polar Microbiologist – listed in references: http://www.oewf.org/tripolar/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2_Chapter4_Sattler_Storrie-Lombardi.pdf
majormike1 says:
March 12, 2012 at 4:42 pm
The people of the developing world (and of the developed world, for that matter) need abundant energy and water. To answer these needs, China and India have embarked on ambitious programs to fill future energy through Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors (LFTR). A bonus of creating safe, inexpensive, and abundant energy via LFTR is that they operate at their best at full power, and that excess energy produced can be readily utilized for desalinization or purification. The US developed LFTR and operated a test reactor for years, beginning over 50 years ago.
————————————————————————-
Mike, I have no expertise in reactor design or engineering. I have not been able find any report that LFTR has been fully developed. Apparently it has many potential advantages but serious technical problems are yet to be solved. Until this reactor is fully invented it is just pie in the sky. Wanting something to work doesn’t necessarily make it happen.
I leave you with two quotes to ruminate over; “There is no national science just as there is no national multiplication table; what is national is no longer science.” ~Anton Chekhov and “Most institutions demand unqualified faith; but the institution of science makes skepticism a virtue.” ~Robert K. Merton, Social Theory, 1957
The CAGW machine is sputtering and dying, so the global fascists will now control you through water, instead of co2.
World Bank press release on Mekong Basin – http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:23137258~pagePK:34370~piPK:34424~theSitePK:4607,00.html
If you are interested in following the water path, the WorldBank is the source for financing and summits. Click on the “news” tab. Financing is the means to the ends of ‘management’ of all water-based territory/lands. Remember the other 2 avenues, Land through Agenda21, and Air through Carbon. Factual science, unfortunately, is not their concern; however truth is always the best defense and offense. So thank you all, again, for adhering to reality….now, on to the other 20 fronts of attack from the borg.
Historically true, dat, but it seems there’s something else at work, too. “Sky high birthrates” are actually rare as hen’s teeth now. Consider this:
Collapsing replacement rates
The U.S. is one of the few exceptions. Even Iran has dropped from over 6 to 1.9 in 25 yrs! In East Asia, only Mongolia remains at or over replacement.
Also consider this:
2.1 Kids: A Stable Population
The always-accurate UN Population Data Base “Low Band” (even moreso the low edge of that band) predicts a peak at around 8bn in the 2040 vicinity, give or take, and a steady decline thereafter. The future is not what we think it is.
dtbronzich:
People of all political views oppose Greens because Greens are wrong and dangerous. The lessons of history warn us of that danger, and distorting history distorts its lessons.
But you provide blatant nonsense at March 12, 2012 at 6:47 pm when you try to pretend extreme right is left by writing:
“The National Socialist Movement was/is a very left movement, another name for it was “people’s nationalism”. It was, in the beginning, anti big business, anti-bourgeois, anti capitalist and for the people’s purity of land (early environmentalism because of the contamination of the Ruhr valley).”
Anti big business? No, ask Krupp of Essen.
Anti bourgeois? No, racist and bigoted.
Anti capitalist? No, ask VolksWagon.
Pro-environmentalist? Yes, but that is not a left-right issue.
Germany in the 1930s is an embarrassment to the extreme right, but that does not justify pretending the opposite of reality.
Richard
“On crying wolf…”
Quite a few years ago, I attended a talk by a leading climate skeptic. At my table was the head of one of the more radical enviro groups (probably WWF Canada), and I asked for his card. I later wrote him, saying, in effect “after the green movement has destroyed all its credibility with your false-alarmist global warming agenda, who will then speak for the environment?”
I see this problem in several of the above comments. We have been drowning in green alarmist BS for so long that many people are revolted by the lies and the deceit, and so are repelled by the entire subject of environmental protection. This experience has made some people cynical of any subject that borders on environmentalism, including the very real issues of access to clean drinking water and the adequacy of water for sanitation, agriculture, and industry in many parts of the world. Notwithstanding all the alarmist BS from radical enviros, there are very real concerns today with global fresh water, both in quality and quantity of supply.
Like global warming (CAGW) fraud, the radical enviros have also contaminated the water issue with their lies, but water remains a real and serious problem for many people of the world. We should not over-react to enviro-alarmist hysteria by rejecting this real concern.
How to deal with a looming water crisis is another question. I have lost most of my faith in the capability of governments and NGO’s to deal with real problems. Global warming fraud, and the squandering of a trillion dollars by governments to “fight global warming”, has left me wondering what organization is truly capable of managing real problems with competence and efficiency. The United Nations, for example, is clearly part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Sorry, Richard; the firms were there and active, but not in control of their own fates, much less the country’s. The Red of the flag was explicitly chosen to communicate that Germany was the true home of socialists. It was the hyper-nationalism that distinguished it. And get off the “racism” meme. Ask the ethnic minorities in and around Russia, like the Ukranians, not to mention the Jews who were hounded out or killed, and in China the Manchurians and Tibetans, about racism in socialist regimes. The core of socialism is the appropriation ( of the assets and labour of the state by a self-selected nomenklatura. Always. And individual and ethnic scapegoats are constantly required to take the blame and hits for the disjointed economics that comes from that top-down usurpation of the natural pricing and allocation operations of the market.
Spend a week or three reading Bastiat. Here’s a good start:
http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G007
Brian H:
At March 13, 2012 at 12:51 am you say;
“The always-accurate UN Population Data Base “Low Band” (even moreso the low edge of that band) predicts a peak at around 8bn in the 2040 vicinity, give or take, and a steady decline thereafter. The future is not what we think it is.”
Yes!
I wrote the following in the thread titled “So Many People … So Little Rain” at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/10/so-many-people-so-little-rain/
Please note that it explains its statement saying;
“But rich countries are likely to have difficulty obtaining import of people near the middle of this century when poor countries gain sufficient wealth to stop expanding their populations.”
I copy it here to avoid the trouble of others finding it.
Richard
———————
Richard S Courtney says:
March 10, 2012 at 8:12 am
Gibby:
At March 10, 2012 at 6:56 am you assert:
“Everyone commenting here, so far, seems to be touching on what the underlying issue is; technology allowing us to inhabit areas that once used to be unacceptable areas of habitation, particularly for large populations, without acknowledging the risks that come along with it.”
No!
The underlying issue is a requirement to decide the needed technological development.
Human existence requires technology. Adoption of a cave for shelter is technology. Use of fire to cook food (and thus reduce disease) is a technology. Clothing to protect from the weather is a technology. Etc.
And each adopted technology enables population to expand until an additional technology is needed to avoid mass starvation, disease and death with additional population growth. The Kiribati situation is a specific example of this in a small isolated community, but it is true of all human populations at all times.
A serious problem at present is that ‘greens’ want us to reverse technological advances (e.g. to return to wind and muscle power instead of fossil fuels). Such a reversal would induce mass starvation, disease and death because technologies have advanced to remove/reduce those effects.
The most dangerous of the ‘greens’ call for control and/or reduction of human population. But population growth is required for economic growth which enables needed technological development. Wealth reduces population growth and rich countries now have to import people so they can sustain their economic activity. And at present poor countries – including Kiribati – plan on the basis that they can and do export some of their growing population. But rich countries are likely to have difficulty obtaining import of people near the middle of this century when poor countries gain sufficient wealth to stop expanding their populations.
So, the underlying problem is the need to sustain global population growth without localised difficulties that are not soluble by technology.
Richard
Brian H:
At March 13, 2012 at 2:36 am you make several silly comments to me concerning Germany in the late 1930s. For example you say to me,
“And get off the “racism” meme. Ask the ethnic minorities in and around Russia, like the Ukranians, not to mention the Jews who were hounded out or killed, and in China the Manchurians and Tibetans, about racism in socialist regimes.”
Nazi Germany WAS racist. That others were also racist is no reason to ignore that and, therefore, I will NOT “get off” that “meme”. I have opposed and will oppose racism wherever it exists.
You demonstrate that the right attempts to push Nazi racism under the carpet (i.e. it is a “meme” that should be ignored) and the demonstration shows all that needs to be known about the right’s excuses for the extreme right.
And you provide another lie when you write;
“The core of socialism is the appropriation ( of the assets and labour of the state by a self-selected nomenklatura”.
In reality, the core of socialism is the principle of
“From each according to ability and to each according to need”.
(This extreme individualism contrasts starkly with 20th century communism which amounts to
“From all according to ability and to all according to need”.)
You are the second person this week who has told me to read a link to a right-wing smear site. I will not look at such sites. I don’t need to because I am a socialist so I do not need to be told my political views by people who want me to “get off the racism meme”.
WUWT exists so people of all political, religious and philosophical views can discuss science. Discussion of green philosophy is pertinent on WUWT because green philosophy opposes science. Other political arguments are not. And the untrue smear that socialism equates to the extreme right is not worthy of discussion anywhere.
Richard
What skeptics need to do is what they have done. Join them, Divide them and Conquer them!
Billy says:
March 12, 2012 at 9:40 pm
….Mike, I have no expertise in reactor design or engineering. I have not been able find any report that LFTR has been fully developed.
_______________________________
It is very very close! It is just waiting on the politicians before prototype plants are built. India is in the final stages of sellecting a site.
India plans ‘safer’ nuclear plant powered by thorium
For more technical info see: Sub-critical Thorium reactors http://energy2050.se/uploads/files/rubbia2.pdf
Gail Combs says:
March 12, 2012 at 9:06 pm
….. It is third world countries, where children are used as free labor in Subsistence Agriculture, who have sky high birth rates.
________________
Brian H says:
March 13, 2012 at 12:51 am
Historically true, dat, but it seems there’s something else at work, too. “Sky high birthrates” are actually rare as hen’s teeth now….
_________________
I am well aware of that. I have even read a UN population study where the author was puzzled by the drop in birthrate among subsistence farmers in Africa. But the possible reasons for the drop start getting into the DEEP Conspiracy Theory stuff. http://www.whale.to/m/sterile.html
Then there is the alleged development of spermicidal corn which is a bit close to home, like just down the road aways…. Biolex in Pittsboro NC
Second Source:
When I come across the phrase “an innovative and collaborative solution” I know I can stop reading.
Richard C and Brian H,
The “Left” “Right” argument is only used to confuse and deflect us because there really isn’t a Left or Right power base. What the “Left” thinks of as the “Right” is the same group that is actually supporting them, promoting them and orchestrating their actions. They are pragmatists looking for the method that will allow them control of land, people and wealth so they have no real liking for “Capitalism” or “Socialism” only power.
This is substantiated by the book Tragedy and Hope 1966 by Bill Clinton’s mentor, Carroll Quigley. (Note Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar)
You can keep following the tangled strands of Quigley’s international Anglophile network back to the London School of Economics, Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and the Fabian Society.
Of special note is The Third Way philosophy from Professor Anthony Giddens, former director of the London School of Economics. The philosophy is heavily promoted by Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.
http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/imported/centre-left-s-young-turks-seek-neo-conservative-inspiration/51890.aspx
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/298465.stm
http://www.workinfo.com/econhist/thirdway.htm
Good grief, Jane Madgwick!!!
Readers may not know but the UK has one of the richest wetland areas in Europe: the Norfolk Broads. The Norfolk & Suffolk river system has hosted commercial craft and now leisure craft for hundreds of years and the latter is a thriving industry bringing much needed income to a relatively poor part of the country (average earnings are 50% of national average).
This women is a pariah in these parts: she worked for the organisation that supposedly looks after the “Broads” and made it clear to all that her aim was to close down the entire system to navigation (forgetting that an insuperable right to fishing and navigation were given in 1215 by Magna Carta).
Be very wary of any organisation with this woman involved.
Spend a week or three reading Bastiat. Here’s a good start:
http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G007
Great, defenders of the Nazis referring Bastiat. What has the world come to.
Gail Combs as usual tells you everything you need to know. I add that third waver Newt Gingrich wrote some kind of introduction for Toffler’s book…there is no left and right, all these guys are on the same program.
The same people that brought Hitler to power are the same people running America today. Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama…makes no difference.
Hitler said he had met the superman, and it scared him. He must have just come from a meeting with his corporate sponsors.
Wake the hell up people.
Seriously, why would liars frauds and crooks mind the company of one of their own?
Gail Combs:
re. your post at March 13, 2012 at 8:13 am
Thankyou.
Yes, when people of good will succumb to divide and rule then good will is lost.
Again, thankyou.
Richard
A bit off topic, but speaking of Gleick, the Edmonton Journal finally mentioned the incident today (March 13) but did not mention his name. Some partial quotes:
Tories taciturn about funding of climate skeptics
“Two of the three Canadians mentioned in the internal records have confirmed they were getting paid by the Heartland Institute.
The think-tank was tricked into releasing its internal budget records to an environmental scientist and advocate who attempted to impersonate a board member with a fake email address in February.”
To see the whole article, see:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/technology/Tories+taciturn+about+funding+climate+skeptics/6292565/story.html
If he wants to scare people, he should be harping about “peak phosphorus!” Courtesy of colleagues of mine from Univ of WI, Milwaukee:
http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/does-peak-phosphorus-loom
These organizations are breeding like fruit flys. I’m actually fearful that there is no mention of AGW and extreme weather and the like. This means there is little to falsify – a clear strategy change of the leftist sustainability (restrainability, detainability, refrainability, abstainability) guerillas.
I was defending the Nazis? By noting they were socialists with a hyper-nationalist gloss? What drivel. Please put it where Sol never illuminates.