I guess nobody wanted to “properly debate” skeptics. They couldn’t even get David Appell?
From Oregon Live: The Oregon Museum of Science and Industry has pulled the plug on a presentation from three scientists critical of the theory of man-made global warming, saying the panel wasn’t balanced.
Oregon’s chapter of the American Meteorological Society had scheduled the scientists to speak Tuesday at OMSI, which has long provided free space to the group for meetings.
But Mark Patel, OMSI’s vice president of marketing, said the museum told organizers in early November that they needed a balanced panel and offered to move the meeting to its “science pub” event at the Bagdad Theater, picking up half the cost of the move. With no progress made, the museum cancelled the event last week.
“By the very fact that we’re holding it here, people are going to assume it’s OMSI’s point of view,” Patel said. “Our intention is far from trying to shut anybody up. We’re trying to encourage proper debate, and not allow OMSI to be used as a mouthpiece for one group or another.”
Steve Pierce, president of the Oregon chapter, emailed a response late Monday:
“The Oregon Chapter of the American Meteorological Society is disappointed that the November 29th meeting on global warming will not continue as originally planned. While we understand that OMSI has reservations related to our meeting’s topic on global warming, our chapter has not taken a stance on this issue.”
Full story here at Oregon Live
============================================================
Hmmm. I wonder. Since OMSI has a major weapon of war exhibit, this submarine right next to their logo…
…why don’t hey have a collection of Doves, or perhaps maybe a peace symbol painted on the building to “balance” the presentation? Otherwise visitors might think OMSI has a “point of view” that endorses war. Gosh, that would be terrible.
Readers in Portland, feel free to carry on that thought in letters to the editor there.
h/t to reader Jerry Keeny
If the event was publicized as a debate, then not having opposing views represented would be false advertising which would be a proper grounds for cancellation, but not hosting TALKS that don’t represent both sides? When they host an individual speaker, do they demand that he also speak for those who dispute him? If his opponents misrepresent him, should he be forced to misrepresent himself? They wouldn’t let Al Gore come and give a talk? The museum’s position is moronic, and we can be certain that it will not be applied consistently. It is an obvious rationalization for giving special treatment to the alarmist view.
Today I can report a balanced article from a major mainsrtream newspaper here in the land of Carbon Tax. The comments ran 18 to 1 in favour of the skeptical view.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/a-new-climate-of-fear-critics-slam-new-report-from-the-climate-commission/story-e6freuzi-1226209639097
A small start, I agree, but a start NTL. Oregon could be next.
Bet it wouldn’t have been cancelled if the three speakers were Mann, Trenberth, & Jones.
Let me get this straight, a university has cancelled a presentation on climate change because the pannel is not balanced and you are outraged about it, yes?
Isn’t this the same Oregon that canned their state climatologist because he refused to convert?
REPLY: Yep and he was one of the guys on the panel! – Anthony
Is that from the Department of Redundancy Department?
Yes, PeterT, because there has not been ONE SINGLE “balanced” discussion on the subject. They only want “balance” when there is a “heretic” involved. If everyone were presenting from the other side, “balance” would not be a question. It never is. But you do raise a point. I believe this sets precedence so that ALL discussions going forward must be “balanced” from now on.
Oregon comme la lune…
Wow! That Telegraph.au article was indeed well balanced. You could tell the reporter didn’t know much about the issue in general, but still she gave equal space to both sides, and gave the factual side the last word.
In the rare cases where media give the factual side even one sentence, it’s immediately “destroyed” by a scathing blast from the apocalyptic wackos, so the reader won’t be allowed to think about the truth.
I wonder how much those universities take in each year in moneys related to AGW and if maybe that could have some role in their position. They seem VERY touchy about the subject to the point of wanting to absolutely shut own any opposing point of view. They must believe that their position is very fragile and vulnerable.
“crosspatch says:
November 29, 2011 at 5:50 pm
Yes, PeterT, because there has not been ONE SINGLE “balanced” discussion on the subject. ”
Actually, I’m rather a fan of the IQ^2 debate on the subject featuring Richard Lindzen and Gavin Schmidt. 🙂
Of course, the skeptic side was the clear winner in their after-debate poll. That little exercise is why Realclimate doesn’t do debates anymore.
The Eco-loonie regime of California
drove Google to put its server farms in Oregon.
So if Oregon goes as bonkers as this tactic foretells,
it’s inevitable that they’ll turn on Google,
but equipment-technology turnover only takes so long,
and then Google’s gone to a business-friendly state.
More here
http://5440fight.com/2011/11/28/omsi-has-egg-on-its-face-excludes-peer-reviewed-science-from-climate-conference/
Dr Fulkes:
[ ” Apparently one of the excuses that OMSI gave to the AMS was that they did not approve of anything less than peer-reviewed science being presented at OMSI. That is especially ironic because they permitted the AMS Winter Weather Conference to go ahead which did not feature ANY peer-reviewed science. ” ]
[ “Dr. Fulkes also reveals the source of the reconsideration – a professor at Portland State who raised some sort of objection based on heresay and a failure by Dr. Fulkes to prostrate himself to the AGW cultists. ” ]
Anybody who believes anything is ever “balanced” or “fair” is an idiot. The universe simply doesn’t work like that. Everything is a mortal competition. Everything from galaxies to bacteria seeks an advantage to ensure it’s own supremacy and therefore survival, at the expense of something else. It’s why weeds crowd out tomatoes if left to their own devices, and why nations (and tribes) go to war. It’s no different with science or any other endeavor. Competition – in it’s most extreme form – is a requirement of evolution.
crosspatch says:
November 29, 2011 at 5:58 pm
I wonder how much those universities take in each year in moneys related to AGW and if maybe that could have some role in their position. They seem VERY touchy about the subject to the point of wanting to absolutely shut own any opposing point of view. They must believe that their position is very fragile and vulnerable. ” ]
http://www.naturalstep.org/en/usa/omsi-oregon-museum-science-and-industry-portland-oregon-usa-0
Here’s the utube for AMS at OMSI
I’m a weekend warrior who argues with what we call the warmagedonists on a blog. Some say since the release of the first e-mails all the data and programs from the hockey stick and cru hadcrut is available. Is that true
Given the ongoing revelations from the email files it appears the OMSI is making a bold declaration that whenever anyone appears on their premises to present the truth, they must be completely balanced by an equal number of liars.
Bill M,
Go to Climate Audit [right sidebar] and ask Steve McIntyre if he’s received all the data, code, methodologies and metadata he requested from MBH. If he says yes, I’ll accept that. But last I heard, the answer was no.
Where is this former free and proud nation heading?
Straight into censorship and worse. It’s a shame.
If you need help to deal with and have a life even under such conditions,
I can teach you how … grown up in Eastern Europe.
OMSI and it’s board have long been in the AGW camp so this is no surprise.
It is a WIN for rational people. The cowardice of the leftist freaks is noticed by everyone here in Oregon. Hah!
Seriously, just WHY would the CAGW zealots support a debate about “the science”? They have NOTHING to offer, and they now know it. They would certainly look stupid to a discerning audience. That’s why serious debates don’t and won’t occur anywhere in the world! Their game is dead, LOL.
The “multiple lines of evidence” meme cited by all the warmistas have never materialized and now that is very clear to all who look, due to the diligence of all the folks who are looking for the truth (i.e., all the nasty oil-funded skeptics). There is not even ONE “line of evidence, anymore.” No warming for more than 15 years, despite rising OCO levels. No sea level rise. No melting of glaciers worldwide. No warming of the tropical troposphere at 5 km as predicted so strongly by all the models. Nothing but hype. No wonder they are trying to kill honest debates!
Good article by Dr. Fred Singer in the American Thinker:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/durban_climate_conference_the_dream_fades.html
The Oregon Museum of Science and Industry’s cancellation of the AMS
discussion panel (much like they’d cancel a meeting with KKK members or
Neo-Nazis comprising the panel) is a perfect example of the “new ethics”
being incorporated into the concept of what’s now politically correct.
Donald A. Brown, the spiritual leader of the Penn State Rock Ethics Institute
(see Anthony’s following thread) is an acolyte of Mike Mann’s tactics in
snuffing what the Team want folks to view as politically motivated
scientific dissent.
As with Mike’s science, the more often they tell the lie the more they expect
it to become “The Truth”, A.K.A. the “Consensus”.
They get real cranky when that doesn’t seem to work.
I received an email from Gordon Fulks today, about this incident. The email thread included a link to Mark Nelson’s blog. Mark Nelson is the meteorologist on KPTV – FOX 12 in Portland. He wrote that the claim of OMSI’s vice president of marketing, Mark Patel, that they “offered to move the meeting to its “science pub” event at the Bagdad Theater, picking up half the cost of the move.,” is untrue.
Mark Nelson is Secretary of the local chapter AMS Executive Committee. He was closely involved in arranging the AMS meeting at the OMSI venue. Mr. Nelson has blogged about the incident and let us know that Mr. Patel’s purported offer “never happened” (Nelson’s bold).
So, of course there was “no progress made.” How could there have been progress on a non-offer? And what led Mr. Patel to make public an explanation that the local participants know to be untrue?
The whole thing is sleazy, but such pro-AGW censorship has become common practice. I don’t think this practice indicates desperation. It’s much more banal than that. Such behavior has an extensive historical precedent, and typifies the social response of any majority group committed to, expressing, and enforcing an irrational ideology. Such groups can’t bear contradiction, nor can they convincingly support their own view (irrational ideologies are always mere subjective opinion-mongering), and so the preferred response is suppression.
What’s always most stunning is how readily so many otherwise-intelligent people fall right into line.
My alma mater OSU has become more and more a proxy for AGW thought in Oregon. Hard to find any work being done that doesn’t come up with man is causing run-away heat buildup. Even forestry falls into that camp.
Don’t look now, but the WSJ is getting all besmirchity again:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203935604577066183761315576.html?mod=rss_opinion_main
Pat: You are seeing ABJECT FAILURE OF THE MAX, first hand. The king has no clothes, and the whole world is witnessing it. It is a truly great, spiritual event, no? 🙂
“What’s always most stunning is how readily so many otherwise-intelligent people fall right into line.”
And they are not “falling right into line,” but are laughing.
Trust me.
“The Oregon Chapter of the American Meteorological Society is disappointed that the November 29th meeting on global warming will not continue as originally planned. While we understand that OMSI has reservations related to our meeting’s topic on global warming, our chapter has not taken a stance on this issue.”
In short:
Talk to the hand.
Slightly O/T, but has to do with debate.
Ran into a friend who is a dyed in the wool alarmist. Very bright fellow. First time I’ve seen him since CG 2. We’ve had some rousing and fun discussions on the whole subject. We both wear it proudly. But today when I brought it up, he just looked at his shoes. I could tell he was embarrassed for his heroes. So I changed the subject and we moved on. Thats gotta be hard.
Debate CAN be fun. Suppression will NEVER be fun.
Actually, it is a “fundamentalist” response and the ideology doesn’t have to be “irrational”, it is simply their way of protecting their ideology and keeping its believers in the fold. They ostracize anyone who does not share the believe, they suppress dissent and opposing information of any sort.
In this case, they can’t really compete with an opposing message because they really have no proof of their own. If asked to present the data that show the climate is warming so disastrously, they give you a set of “adjusted” figures. If you ask for the pre-adjusted raw data, they can’t provide it and can’t tell you where to get it because they are no longer sure exactly which version of what data went into it. You simply have to take it as a matter of faith. Then they tell you that the data match the models. Interesting that data they “adjusted” match models they created, isn’t it? Then they will point you to the IPCC documents as “proof” without really acknowledging that those documents are basically their own product, too. Finally, they will never let on the millions of dollars that these positions bring in to their institutions in the form of implementation of policy.
They are standing on very thin ice and they know it. They have quite a lot at stake including some very inflated and very fragile egos.
I believe the key lies in making them a laughingstock. We need more climatologist jokes. Good ones. Real bellyshakers. There’s some serious besmirching to be done.
Or a Youtube video.. Elmer Beauregard hit it out of the park with “Hide the Decline,” which included a parody of a terrific pop song. It occurred to me that maybe he should go a little further back (instead of forward) in pop song history. Then it hit me – Lou Christie’s highly listenable “Lightning Strikes” with its refrain “Lightning’s striking again”. This is Climategate 2, after all. Maybe Elmer or somebody can do something with that.
Oregon! We don’t need no steenking Oregon.
———————————————–
Well, NOAA’s ‘cpc’ thinks Oregon will have below average temperature in the near term, see here:
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/814temp.new.gif
. . . that suggest Al Gore may, in fact, be planning a trip to the OMSI in the weeks ahead. Timing is everything.
Hey all, thanks for linking to my original story! I have a juicy update:
http://5440fight.com/2011/11/29/omsi-still-digging-past-rock-bottom-caught-in-a-lie-defending-their-political-actions/
Yeah, it’s going to be fairly cool on the Pacific coast for a while if that ENSO forecast holds out This might be a very late spring and cool early summer. It’ll probably be good for the ski resorts’ though, if we get the precip.
Looks like the BBC is being openly criticized for climate sensationalism:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2067871/David-Attenborough-accused-climate-change-sensationalism-Lord-Lawson.html
I noticed that a lot of signers of that so called ‘National Climate Ethics’ petition covered in another article here were from OR, so I guess this move must be very ethical, or something.
crosspatch – Thanks for that link re Attenborough and the BBC.
I also found this story there, with this marvelous headline:
“This year is set to be 10th warmest on record according to ‘Climategate’ scientists
Includes data from University of East Anglia, criticised for colluding with politicians to ‘massage’ evidence of man-made climate change”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2067537/2011-set-10th-warmest-record-despite-cooling-effect-La-Nina-weather-system.html#ixzz1fAylgse2
So… maybe those old, out-of-context emails about some harmless scientific horseplay will matter after all. On top of the missing heat.
In related news: This year promises robust financial returns according to the Madoff institute.
To be honest, I think they’re quite justified in what they’re saying. What makes it farcical however is the total and utter lack of anything resembling balance from the other 99% of institutions that are up to their eyeballs in pushing CAGW propaganda. Can you imagine any of them cancelling a “debate” because they couldn’t find a skeptic to go on the panel? Indeed.
Good post. I wish anthony would add a tab at the top to a monthly thread (so it can be archived) dedicated to similar posts–i.e., to recommendations of good threads elsewhere.
Of course, there are plenty of links already within existing posts, but those are meant to support the poster’s argument. A post like Smokey’s is “off topic”–which is why we rarely see such posts, valuable though they are.
The only place for them now is in Tips and Notes, but they get lost in the clutter there (and in ordinary threads like this), so people who might like to browse for them alone (many people) get discouraged or distracted. Knowing this, people often don’t bother to put up such links in the first place. It’s a vicious circle. An “Outstanding Articles” thread would provide a “home” for such orphans and attract lots of contributors. (Even if it attracts too many contributors, some blowing their own horn, that’s better than too few.)
And links in T&N don’t get archived.
It’s not only valuable to WUWT readers to have such links; it’s also valuable to the lesser-known contrarian sites that deserve recognition when they come up with a standout thread.
Regularly referring to them as climatologers would be a start.
ElmerF says:
November 29, 2011 at 8:46 pm
“My alma mater OSU has become more and more a proxy for AGW thought in Oregon. Hard to find any work being done that doesnt come up with man is causing run-away heat buildup. Even forestry falls into that camp.”
There is is VERY good reason for that – there is NO MONEY in proposing research projects which do not conclude man-made global warming disasters. As we have seen through the Climategate e-mails, climate “science” is no longer about science, but has morphed into political-activist movement, and they will stop at nothing to crush dissent.
The Warmistas are lacking a good theme song to cheer them up. I suggest Creedence Clearwater’s ‘Bad Moon Rising’.
From the OMSI website…
“(A) Creating Awareness
Although The Natural Step offers training sessions designed both for staff and managers, OMSI used an informal approach to raise awareness among their employees. Francaviglia describes the process as “organic”, where several initiatives come from within departments. OMSI has engaged its employees through monthly staff meetings, employee newsletters, and informal discussions within departments. One group of OMSI staff has formed a global climate change education committee to educate other staff through newsletter articles, emails, and guest speakers. Museum members are kept abreast of sustainability efforts through a members’ newsletter. According to Francaviglia, generating support from employees has not been difficult”
http://www.naturalstep.org/en/usa/omsi-oregon-museum-science-and-industry-portland-oregon-usa-0
Gee I wonder how many of those ‘climate change’ newsletter articles, emails, and guest speakers were skeptical?
“I guess nobody wanted to “properly debate” skeptics. They couldn’t even get David Appell?”
David Appell has been popping up regularly at Steve Goddard’s site. He made enough of a fool of himself to be the star of this post:
http://www.real-science.com/scientifically-illiterate
Up next: OMSI officially changes its name to “Oregon Museum of Seances and Wizardry”
When do we get to read the emails involved in this revealing decision. I hope someone at the Museum leaks them to us. Surely the team was pushing behind the scenes. Someone at the museum must have a conscience. GK
Well, it certainly isn’t the 10th warmest in many of the regional records. In CONUS it is something like the 24th warmest and cooler than last year. So about 1/5 of the years in the database are warmer so far since 1895. It doesn’t appear to be the 10th warmest in the Arctic records of DMI either. There is also an interesting divergence with atmospheric temperatures. Right now we have a VERY cold atmosphere. According to the AGW hypothesis the atmosphere must warm (in order to radiate that heat back to Earth) but it isn’t. The atmosphere is actually COLDER. So explain to me how a COLDER atmosphere can radiate more heat back to the surface? It is physically impossible. So if you are buying their surface temperature records, something must be heating the crust from below! Because it certainly isn’t gaining any heat from re-radiation from the atmosphere.
See, according to their greenhouse hypothesis, longwave IR from the surface has to heat CO2 in the atmosphere which re-radiates some of that heat back to Earth. So before you can have any surface warming, you MUST have atmospheric temperature anomalies …. which we DO NOT HAVE. So, something is wonky with their surface measurements OR something is heating the surface from below or they aren’t measuring “global” warming, but local warming due to various local microclimate changes and aggregating these all together and calling it a “global” change.
Those are the only possible explanations but the fact that the atmosphere has been getting COLDER an not WARMER in and of itself invalidates the AGW hypothesis completely.
What do we do with weather sites that spread these universities lie, to the public,like accuweather,the w.c, wunderground etc.they have to know they look and sound like fools.
K
I don’t know why they want ‘balance.’ The major newspaper of the state the Oregonian rarely allows any comments opposing their religion. Thanks to the internet and sites like yours, and despite the almost total blackout on opposing views in the MSM, 69% of American public think that CAGW is pure sewage.
Gator 69 said: Gee I wonder how many of those ‘climate change’ newsletter articles, emails, and guest speakers were skeptical?
I’ll bet you none. Do you want to take me on?
I have to ‘apologize’ to the Oregonian saying that they don’t support differing opinions from their religion. They took OMSI to task today for cancelling the event. I hadn’t heard about the event before cancellation but now I think I will try to make it.
” I don’t know why they want ‘balance.’ The major newspaper of the state the Oregonian rarely allows any comments opposing their religion. Thanks to the internet and sites like yours, and despite the almost total blackout on opposing views in the MSM, 69% of American public think that CAGW is pure sewage.”
I live in this fine State of Oregon where differing views are actually quite welcome! But like any other State we have our politics. So please don’t bash us generally. It isn’t useful. Come visit and breathe some great fresh air!
OMSI is a great science museum where kids and adults can get a feel, first hand, the work and wonders of science. But this was a big mistake and will come back to haunt the museum.
BTW, the museum has struggled for years with funding and is NOT associated with any public University.
This may be another manifestation of Fear-Forced (Post-Normal) Science that maintains that the environmental consequences of a plausible scientific premise may be so dire that no skepticism can be allowed, and Science must speak with one voice to insure that the public accepts the great sacrifice necessary to avert this danger.
Here is an old example of this ‘logic’ in its most pure form.
The Most Terrifying Video You’ll Ever See
Uploaded by wonderingmind42 on Jun 8, 2007
“Over 8 million total views. Now there’s a book:
“…superbly crafted…A must read.” -Gen. Anthony Zinni, US CENTCOM Commander (Ret.)
13,973 likes, 4,806 dislikes ; 5,277,798 Views; 9:34 min
crosspatch says:
November 29, 2011 at 5:58 pm
I wonder how much those universities take in each year in moneys related to AGW and if maybe that could have some role in their position. They seem VERY touchy about the subject to the point of wanting to absolutely shut own any opposing point of view. They must believe that their position is very fragile and vulnerable.
___________________________
Thanks Kim your link leads to this from the Oregon Museum:
I think if I see the word “Sustainability” aka the UN’s agenda 21, one more time I will puke!
For those who doubt the connection to the United Nations or doubt how big the influence has grown…..
While we sit here trying to connect the dots, THEY (the UN) have already moved on to the consolidation of the territory they have conquered through the treasonous acts of our government representatives.
Heck I have a copy of the “Sustainability Plan” for my backwoods hick county written over five years ago. If you bother to go to your county planning office you will probably find one too. Now Colleges and Universities are including “sustainability” in their training of College students.
Student leaders called for a sustainability course requirement to be added to the university’s general education program at an SGA meeting last…. University of Maryland
Sustainability Becoming Required Course In MBA
“Leading business schools in Canada and around the world are adding sustainability to their required MBA curricula….According to a Bloomberg Businessweek article, sustainability is no longer seen as the province of fuzzy do-gooders. Managing for sustainability is becoming a new bottom line at MBA programs.” Carbon49 a blog on sustainability for Canadian businesses.
http://www.carbon49.com/2011/03/sustainability-becoming-required-course-in-mba/
If you really want to see what is happening there is “Association for the Advancement of Sustainability in Higher Education. “ http://www.aashe.org/
They advocate things like
Mandatory Student Fees for Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency
This resource describes successful efforts to increase mandatory fees specifically to fund renewable energy and energy efficiency…. “
“Sustainability, has become as big a marketing tool as sex and the big dogs like the banks are not going to let “deniers” rock their boat.
RE: Gail Combs: (December 1, 2011 at 10:10 am)
REF:
The World Commission on Environment and Development defined sustainability as:
“…development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs”.
In regard to energy resources, I use the term sustainable or indefinitely sustainable to refer to an energy resource that can continuously sustain a limited human population. So far, energy from thorium is the only source of energy that I see having a real prospect of supporting our current population indefinitely. But, at least one writer has criticized the supporters and promoters of this energy resource as being equivalent to a ‘Cargo Cult.’
It is rather humorous, in a way, that ‘Peak Oil’ and ‘Global Warming’ tend to cancel each other out because the total carbon remaining to be economically extracted, by some estimates, is not enough to cause even one full doubling of the CO2 content in the atmosphere from 280 PPM.
Hey y’all, we have a non-update update from OMSI – they’re doubling down on their lies about how it happened that they didn’t allow the AMS lecture from skeptics:
http://5440fight.com/2011/12/03/omsi-global-warming-and-the-bunker-mentality-silence-in-the-face-of-public-criticism/
Gail Combs says:
December 1, 2011 at 10:10 am
[ ” Thanks Kim your link leads to this from the Oregon Museum: ” ]
You are very welcome 🙂
Agenda 21 is why IPCC was started.
Gail Combs says:
December 1, 2011 at 10:10 am…………
This might be an interesting read for you.
http://www.spinpolitico.com/forum/topics/sustainable-developmentagenda-1