The question is, how long will this last, and how long will the public tolerate these two kissy faced politicians?
The vote in the lower house, which was applauded by Labor MPs and spectators in the public gallery, was a crucial test for the government, given its wafer-thin majority. The bills will now go the Senate for debate but will pass comfortably with help from the Greens, probably next month.
After the vote, Prime Minister Julia Gillard embraced Climate Change Minister Greg Combet, who had the difficult job of steering the policy, and even exchanged a peck on the cheek with Foreign Affairs Minister Kevin Rudd, whose reported ambitions to retake the leadership are proving a headache for the Prime Minister.
The passage of the bills are a crucial victory for Ms Gillard, whose popularity has fallen steadily since last year.
Under the legislation, about 500 of the biggest carbon-emitting companies in Australia will pay a price for each tonne of carbon. Most of the biggest emitters are electricity generating firms, mining companies and heavy industry manufacturers.
To compensate households, the government is cutting income taxes and boosting payments such as pensions and other benefits, as well as offering various lump sum payments.
The average household is expected to pay about $9.90 a week in extra living costs, including $3.30 on electricity.
However this will be offset by an estimated $10.10 in extra benefits and tax breaks. The Australian scheme will cover about 60 per cent of Australia’s emissions, making it the most broad-based in the world.
Like a bad dream.
It’s a dark day for us downunder. A tax we don’t want to solve a problem that doesn’t exist and were promissed would never be raised. What can I say…I voted for the other guy.
These guys weren’t applauding:
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/gallery-disrupts-gillard-20111012-1lkdj.html
As an ashamed Australian, I am looking for a not too cold democratic country to spend the rest of my working life. Any suggestions?
Well that Australia officially fudged up.
This is disastrous for Australia.
Maybe the world will learn a lesson when it sees what happens to Australia’s economy after this. Well, there is a small chance that could happen, isn’t there?
I apologise for the stupidity of my Country, and fervently hope that you will not look down at us as some bunch of foolish yokels – which we certainly appear to be.
Voted the damned thing through on my Birthday, too.
It sucks, no wonder they have the 2 worst Prime Ministers in Australia’s history sucking face.
Already the Shire Councils have put in huge claims for compensation that were not calculated. The biggest polluters include the State Governments, so they will be hit twice, from the Shire councils below and the carbon tax from the Federal Government. None of that was modeled.
The underlying assumption is that the rest of the world has an ETS by 2016 at the latest. Further, by law , they have to apply a consequences of legislation to any new legislation or amendment. They just ran through the office saying look at this and ran out again.
They have excluded petrol, a dreaded fossil fuel, but have included power station and coal mine shut downs.
This isn’t a serious government. It is part of the Green Monster Raving Looney Party.
Tony Abbott the leader of the Liberal/National Coalition in opposition has, “Pledged in Blood” to repeal this Legislation and to Dismantle the Bureaucracy associated with it….! Good inspiring stuff!
During Question time he and the Coalition ministers also declared that it was ” Socialism dressed up as Environmentalism”…. That it was a dark day in Australian Democracy….. That if tyranny was the oppression of the many by the few, then Australia is in the grip of tyranny… That Gillard lied and broke her promise to the Australian people when she said, ” There will be no Carbon Tax under a Government that I lead.”
The public gallery was in an uproar with upset and disempowered Australian citizens protesting and being ejected from viewing the processes of passing this despicable piece of legislation that is based on an exaggeration and installed by a lie.
I have this feeling that the Labor Party will come to rue the day that it tried to tax the air that Australian voters breathe….;-)
Election isn’t due till 2013. So we will have to put up with the tax for a year.
Note for non Aussies: Gillard is kissing ex PM Rudd who is rumored to be ready to mount a leadership challenge.
NZers have a Greek ship breaking up on a reef to take the media off this one. I hate to think of the “collaboration” that will take place between NZ and Aus. Horrible, and a dark day for our countries.
I feel bad for any of you Australians out there. But on the bright side, I expect this only to last a couple years.
That woman looked directly into the camera and said, “There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead” – and she’s now introduced one.
Another thing, “about 500 of the biggest carbon-emitting companies in Australia will pay a price for each tonne of carbon”. Included among those “”500 big polludas” are local governments because they run landfills, water and sewerage services. Ratepayers are going to have to pay for the weighbridges to weigh the rubbish to calculate the emissions – and the tax.
Funny how local government didn’t feature in the propaganda which restricted images to belching smoke stacks.
In a few years expect to see a similar picture of Ms Gilliard.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/8490639/Government-business-support-to-fall-off-a-cliff.html
This is really going to hit home when the power companies fold because they cannot afford to buy the coal to produce the power. Seeing how that plays out may be fun to watch (from a distance), but then again you may not be able to watch it as it will happen in the dark …
This will certainly be an interesting case study.
(Arguably) The worlds most stable economy embarking on a massive carbon tax. Interesting given it’s main industry type.
The kiss of Judas. Gillard not only stabbed Rudd in the back to get the leadership but has done the same to the rest of the country after promising never to introduce a Carbon Tax under her Government. The outrage over here is enormous. I’ve never seen so many hostile posts to articles on the net. Abbott has pledeged to bring it all undone if elected in 2 yrs time but the Labour Party are attempting to make it impossible difficult to do so.
Behind the scenes: ->One of Gillards advisors is former Shell executive and current Club of Rome member Ian Dunlop. Made money in Big Oil, now involved in the Climate Change movement…
If anyone wants the local feel try Jo Nova ->, they totally ignored alot of there citizens concerns to force this through.
Shame really as I was watching TV last night ‘Coming to America’ and there is a bit in the underground which reminded me of Sydney central train station and how I use to pass through every day to work and how I’d like to be standing there agian as I love the country and the people (Yes I know the local bat farm is much more beautiful).
Shame whats happening to Oz now though, that feeling is now defunct.
I wonder if the power companies have thought about one week on, one week off to save on there carbon output?
500 buck a year (low estimate).
I hereby resolve to redouble all and every approach to paying fewer taxes.
I will also now stop buying (more expensive) renewable energy and tell them quite clearly why.
As to anyone who thinks it will go away in a few years, I have seen many taxes added in my life, but I’ve never seen one removed yet.
I just spent a bunch of time reading that Sydney Morning Herald article.
Actually, I am in awe.
I have rarely seen more dishonest reporting, or a more transparent manipulation of the readership’s opinion. The pro-tax arguments are highlighted, and god only knows how far they had to dig to find those (or they’re plain fabricated, which seems more likely). I stand in amazement at how many people are applauding this ridiculous tax. Have they actually fooled the Australian people that much? If so, I weep for a once-great land.
Yes, the sheep have voted for lamb for dinner. It’s incredible.
I have several online friends in Australia. Not a single one of them has anything good to say about this tax. None of them know anyone who does. I’ve asked.
Here are some quotes:
and
and
and
and
There is no way I would ever say that Australians are stupid… however, clearly there are a lot of stupid Australians (and Canadians, and Americans, etc.) Sadly, the stupidest of the stupid seem to be running the show in Australia. They are apparently so divorced from reality that they don’t see they have committed an economic suicide, made themselves the laughingstock of the rest of the world, and virtually signed their own political death-warrants.
I’d like to track down these jubilant commenters in a year or two and see how they’ve fared.
I’d best get myself over to the Devil’s Kitchen, where I can appropriately express myself.
What a sad day for democracy in Australia – a minority government beholden to the Watermelons and several Independent lunatics and misfits, ramming through 18 pieces of legislation, most of them concerned with grand-fathering, for chrissakes!
Extraordinary. I shake my head in utter disbelief. At least this guarantees that the Australian Labor Party will become a dim footnote of history within a very short time.
The worldwide Climate Change debate has moved on so much, (just ask Mike Mann) such that I expect in five years or so it will be swept under the carpet with all the rest of the arficialiy inflated public cirises.(Like SARS and Bird Flu) This action by the Gillard Labor Government is a bit like mandating that every telephone must have a dial a few months after the push button keypad was invented. The rest of the world is moving on and will never put in Carbon Taxes.
The truly nasty aspect of this tax is that the government has already budgeted in the money they will raise from selling the carbon credits so the opposition if they win the next election will have a $50Bn black hole before they even start.
Great! this will help our US and Canadian economies come back maybe this year even, as we lose another previously formidable competitor for our coal and steel and manufacturing industries. Good on ya, mates!
The leader of the opposition Mr Abbot stood and clearly said that the tax would be removed if he were to be elected. The mirror image of Ms Gillard’s promise not to implement it.
Likewise the reverse in fortunes about to take place.
Abbot’s tone was triumphant, he knew it was an election winning moment.
Gillard when she responded sounded exactly like a woman signing her own ‘political suicide note’.
It’s going to get interesting Down Undah.
Heartfelt condolences from the Far East.
Our bill is now on the shelf in Diet. I sincerely hope it’ll never pass.
Fossil fuels to be 20% the 2000 level by 2050. Back to the Stone Age.
Insanity….A victory for the pale green rider.
Actually Peculiar Juliar doesn’t care that she is the most hated person in Aus because this was her ticket for the trans-national gravy-train. She’ll be shoved into some UN post, or a NGO or some such at a six-figure salary with pensions beyond any tedious annoyances like elections.
Her peck with Rudd was probably “That’s me up and away, you’re welcome to the wreck of the Party” or “So long sucker, thanks for all the fish”.
Down under just went under, but what can I say as a Brit? Well, misery loves company so welcome to the club.
The Titanic sunk in 1911, and Australia is marking the centenary with it’s Carbon Tax.
Australia, like the Titanic is sitting on its own, going nowhere. The hope and expectation is, that like the Titanic, the tax will sink slowly and gracefully to the bottom of the ocean before it gets into regular business.
A few things to note:
1) Julia Gilard (of the red hair) went into the last election (2010) promising there would be no carbon tax (sic) under any Government she led. This promise was clearly shattered today.
2) Julia Gillard ousted Kevin Rudd (whom she is seen kissing in the photo) just months before the last election was called.
3) Gillard did not win the 2010 election outright and only maintains power in a minority Government with the assistance of the Greens and three key independents.
4) The majority of Australians do not support this legislation, but the minority Government has rammed it through regardless.
5) The opposition leader (who would win in a landslide if an election was held today) has promised a “blood oath” to repeal this legislation if he gets into power.
6) One of the key independents (Andrew Wilkie) has threatened to remove support for the minority Government (which only has a one vote majority in the Lower House) if they do not consider poker machine reform legislation by May 2012.
7) Poker machine legislation as desired by Andrew Wilkie would decimate Julia Gillard’s Labor party completely (it hits their voter heartland) and can therefore not be considered, resulting in a probable vote of no confidence by May 2010.
Here’s my opinion of the near future for Labor. Having rammed through the CO2 tax legislation, they will be looking to a change of leadership in the next few months to toss out Julia Gillard and the associated political taint of the “carbon tax.” They shall then call a snap election before May 2012 before Wilkie can defect from the minority government.
It is shameful, to say the least, that this minority government shall celebrate this as a great legislative victory despite squeaking into power having promised no such tax would be introduced. It is a credit to Australian tolerance (ignorance? apathy?) that we have been so civil about this political outrage.
Every country gets the government it deserves. Since there were no mass-demonstrations, I think people will learn to live with it, yet with a lower GDP, more government, less freedom and less prosperity. I say this with pain in my heart. I wish you Aussies would have taken action against this red-green monster, but you still have a choice and a voice!
Marx always thought that socialism would appear from capitalism. He was right I guess. Next step according to Marx will be full blown communism. Then people have no choice and voice at all anymore.
So, let’s find out how long the ASSR will survive.
God, have mercy on their soules.
As a patriotic English cricket fan I wish I could say that I am saddened to see The Ozzies doing something so spectaculary stupid as this. But fits of schadenfreude keep bursting out. England hold the Cricketing Ashes…the Oz just have the Ashes of their Economy. Tee hee
On a more serious note, I think that this experiment will be watched very closely around the world for both the policy and the politics. If, as expected, Gillard gets soundly trounced at the next election – in part because of this pointless tax, then it would be a brave(*) politician anywhere in the democratic wolrd who tried to introduce a similar measure.
This one could just be the Bridge Too Far for the public and mark the beginning of the end of the false politics of climate change
* Brave = foolhardy to the point of recklessness in Sir Humphrey-speak
On the Wikipedia Climate Change Public Opinion page I see the following selected listings:
Caused by Perceived Country Awareness human as threat activity Australia 97 54 75 Canada 95 61 74 China 62 58 21 Germany 96 59 60 Japan 99 91 80 United Kingdom 97 48 69 United States 97 49 63I am not sure how current these listings are but it looks like Australia is one of the nations where Global Warming is still widely believed to be a human caused threat even though the change in CO2 concentration from 280 PPM to 396 PPM appears to have caused a less than 2-watt per square meter raw decrease in an overall out-welling LWIR flow of 300 watts per square meter at 99 km up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_opinion_by_country
Wow….all that and a thrashing by the All Blacks in the upcoming Rugby World Cup semi final too….a bad week for Aussie. 😉
Not one Labor MP had the good sense and conscience to vote down the stupid thing, even though there are a number of closet skeptics. History will remember this betrayal of the Australian people.
What’s the tax raise – 10-20 billion dollars – all set overseas – about 20 million Aussies – thew 4 or 5 dollars a week compo SHE has promissed will fall a bit short.
Seem to remember someone named Judas – look what happened to the person he kissed.
Speaker Harry Jenkins warned that it was a privilege to be allowed into the public gallery.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/gallery-disrupts-gillard-20111012-1lkdj.html#ixzz1aYO8uLnz
I think the appropriate response from the public is: ‘ Privilege my [body part]. We pay your salary.’
Looks to me like a perfect time to “short” Australia. Their markets should be headed (even more) South in the weeks and months ahead.
It’s a bad policy, nevertheless your commentors shouldn’t be so hysterical. It won’t lead to economic catastrophe, and emotive hyperbole is unmanly and un-Australian!
“bubbagyro says:
October 12, 2011 at 12:34 am
Great! this will help our US and Canadian economies come back maybe this year even, as we lose another previously formidable competitor for our coal and steel and manufacturing industries. Good on ya, mates!”
Oz coal industry will do very well. It’s selling as much as it can produce to China. Of course Australia isn’t producing that CO2, China is. What a deceptive, hypocritical bunch these politicians are!
We have a bunch of political suicide bombers for ministers at the moment. But don’t blame us – we can’t wait to demolish them:
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2011/10/11/1226163/501640-111011-newspoll.pdf
http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps
NB: lowest global sea level temp for this day in past 10 years!
The most traitorous kiss since Judas. Good luck, Aussies. You’ll need it.
I keep saying this, vote that woman OUT. Labour has ruined the UK and your labour party seem hell bent on doing the same to Australia.
While the eurozone countries are doing their damnest (tht is more economic stupidities) to pick up the pieces from the euro-debacle that was the consequence of high energy costs that had resulted from socialist carbon politics, the Ozzies are doing their damnest to do a euro to their dollar.
They used to say that before God destroys someone, He makes him go mad.
Unless I have missed it, here in the UK an eerie silence reigns on the BBC and Sky. Perhaps they are at a loss for words to describe the enormity of what has happened or perhaps they fear that the UK reaction to the news might be ridicule rather than fervent approbation.
With the MSM here whipping up a fear of what the approaching winter might bring, and a population smarting from a cooler than average summer, now is not the time to mention global warming, still less the antics of a bunch of left wing idiots, on the other side of the world, committing national suicide at a present time of great financial danger to the economies of the western world.
I shake my head in despair. I want to go on the record as a constituent of Tony Windsor – one of the Independents who voted for this legislation and say that I wrote a number of emails directly to him asking him to rethink his decision in the face of the overwhelming evidence against the CAGW mythology.
My despair comes from the knowledge that when the Australian Economy has caught up with and passed the rest of the world in it’s downward plunge the history books will not honestly attribute the cause to this most idiotic of decisions by a totally incompetent government.
Another area of the economy which will not be compensated is the charities and non green NGOs such as the Mens Sheds of which I am a volunteer member. These types of volunteer organisations will be essential for the care of the masses that I predict will soon be out of work and walking the back roads just as happened in the 1890s and 1930s.
Luckily I have some good productive land that maybe I can grow some food on and help feed the starving folks… providing I can still buy some deisel fuel for my tractor and some fertiliser :-).
It was no kiss, remember the film Alien? This is her way to ensure there is no take over by Rudd. In a day or two there will be a small red headed creature bursting from Rudd’s tum.
On a serious note this is a bad day for Australia, she has deliberately made an unwanted, useless tax very difficult to get reversed. There are property rights attached to peoples carbon credits, what about the peoples right to be heard, 84% of people (voters) did not want it.
Had this gone to an election she would have lost over this issue. Not every Aussie is dumb, just the ones that vote Labor or Green or attend rallies demanding their right to pay more tax, say no more.
No matter what one may say or believe, this carbon tax will not decrease atmospheric CO2 by one single ppm. Most probably, the buraucratic machinery that this tax needs to make it work will emit more carbon dioxide than it saves, since we will still need to switch on the lights no matter what Gillard imposes. So the CO2 I was emitting yesterday wil still be emitted tomorrow. Add to that the additional CO2 that will be produced by the new offices that this new tax needs to be administered. The net effect will be a little bit more CO2 being emitted than before the tax was introduced.
There’s an old WWII song, Bless Em All, that comes to mind. The Brits and Aussies were well known to change the “bless” to another word more fitting for pub sing-a-longs and more reflective of what they really thought about their officers.
In the end, really, when the Left confiscates your property it’s just another tax. I understand Labor has sworn to defend it after they get pummelled in the next elections. If you’ve not divested of any investments in Australia, this morning would be a great time.
bulldust @ 1:04 a.m.
Spot on, mate!
Spector says:
October 12, 2011 at 1:11 am
Further to your figures, 87% of Australians voted for candidates who said they opposed the Carbon Tax. Every Labor candidate lied.
Never mind great white sharks , look out for carbon sharks around the Australia cost line looking to make a real killing out of this .
Commiseration to you Aussies. A double whammy of disasters in just a few days.
Still you can always emigrate to the democratic island state of Tuvalu, whose future is now assured thanks to the foresighted policy of the Australian Government. They may even play underwater rugby there also.
And yet, there are still people here in Australia who believe the CO2 molecule can AMPLIFY “heating”…*sigh*…I despair!
Julia said the ALP wanted to set a lead in the world by introducing this carbon tax. I suspect she was hoping to lead the world in reducing CO2 emissions, however I expect the lead will be in wrecking the economy.
Chris Watson says:
October 12, 2011 at 1:28 am
It’s a bad policy, nevertheless your commentors shouldn’t be so hysterical. It won’t lead to economic catastrophe, and emotive hyperbole is unmanly and un-Australian!
—————————————————————————————————————
No Chris, that wasn’t “Commentators” being hysterical………. What you heard was criticism of Labor and Labor Party policy and a Pledge by the leader of the Opposition (alternative government)……. There are no hysterics in our parliament mate….. Just a very serious and sober man making a clear statement of fact.
Three things. A carbon tax will make Australia uncompetative. CO2 is not pollution. And Julia Gillard promised before the last election that. “There will be no Carbon Tax under a Government I lead.”
…..This is a tax that was based on an exaggeration and implemented by a lie…. and it won’t make a single difference to the temperature of the globe.
EH? How does this work?
Co2 emitters are taxed on some dreamed up scale of sins. They, of course, pass on the tax to their consumers. Industrial and commercial consumers pay the increased bills and, naturally, pass on the tax to the consumers of their products and services
The Government, the tax raiser, repays the domestic, (household), consumer slightly more than the notional rise in their bills.. So far, expensive to administer and pretty pointless.
Now comes the socially inept part: exporting industries are faced with an immediate rise in their input costs, costs that are not relevant to the global market, so either they reduce their wage bills or become globally inefficient. There is no other option, Australia’s socialist government have voted their workforce lower wages and/or higher unemployment.
Australian industry would be well advised to make this point at every opportunity.
The average household is expected to pay about $9.90 a week in extra living costs, including $3.30 on electricity.
However this will be offset by an estimated $10.10 in extra benefits and tax breaks.
Any one else see a little problem with the math here…? In addition to lost revenue, Australia can now expect a flight of capital to SE Asia.
To all my (soon to be) poor Australian friends.
Make sure you ask your representative which way they voted, shame them and make sure they don’t get to represent you again.
A website showing who voted which way might be useful.. Just a thought
Huh?
My deepest sympathy to our Aussie WUWT mates. Please continue to visit and comment as long as you can still afford to do so.
Here’s an eye-popper, jaw-dropper, mega-whopper:
“The average household is expected to pay about $9.90 a week in extra living costs, including $3.30 on electricity.
However this will be offset by an estimated $10.10 in extra benefits and tax breaks.”
C’mon! The public will get more money after the government touches the money both coming and going!?! This is a moneymaker for the public?!?
It’s a safe bet that the “expected” $9.90 will be much higher and the “estimated” $10.10 will be much, much lower.
It makes NZ’s emissions trading scam look good. Our government keeps saying they have aspirations for our economy to catch up with Australia’s, might just happen now.
If you were a Federal Government advisor clever with thoughts and words, how would you work your way around these?
Ownership of Australia’s minerals, with some exceptions for royal and radioactive fissile metals, is vested in the Crown in the power of the States. Thus, for example, Victoria owns its coal.
The ownership of minerals in Australia is subject to the primary maxim “Cuius est solum eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos”, meaning “to whomsoever the soil belongs, he owns also to the sky and to the depths”.
Carbon dioxide is a mineral. Indeed, bottled water with CO2 is named “mineral water” by some.
If Victoria’s coal becomes CO2 or other CO2 goes into the sky, then we have to define ownership. That which exists under or over Victoria, belongs to Victoria.
Section 114 of the Constitution says in its latter part “.. nor shall the Commonwealth impose any tax on property of any kind belonging to a State”.
However, section 51 xxxi notes that the Commonwealth has certain powers for “The acquisition of property on just terms from any State or person for any purpose in respect of which the Parliament has power to make laws”. We have not seen much press about compensation in these Constitutional terms.
Next, there is a general Constitutional principle that if Commonwealth and State law is in conflict, the former shall prevail.
Finally, section 55 notes that “Laws imposing taxation shall deal only with the imposition of taxation, and any provision therein dealing with any other matter shall be of no effect”.
Can a carbon tax be legislatively mixed up with carbon trading schemes?
So, what we are seeing with that enormous bundle of paper named the Carbon Tax Act has so many diverse implications that some Constitutional lawyers are bound to benefit.
As expressed above, the “Carbon Tax” so named is of doubtful legality, ab initio, and there are many points of clarification needed.
“Climate Change” is only a front. It’s all about raising revenue to get back the billions wasted by the current government. Deep down the opposition is happy about the current government doing the dirty work as the Carbon Tax revenue should see them inherit a surplus when they take over 2013.
The tax on power stations is suppose to force them to move to alternate green power plants. I dread to think how high the Carbon Tax needs to go to make these alternate green power plants viable.
Ive never ever fealt so gutted as i am now. We had a good country, with great resources, and a great living standard.
Never have I seen a bunch of individuals so desperate for power, that they are prepared to really hurt their fellow country men
This tax will have 0 effect on climate, (and that is on the assumption that CO2 was having a major impact on climate change – which it isnt!).
Recently the state of NSW had an election where the Labor party was swept from power so decisively that they didnt even have enough members to form a shadow cabinet. A number had to take multiple portfolio’s.
Over 75% of the Australian people realise two simple things.
1)Introducing this tax will have no effect on the climate.
2)75% of Australians dont want this tax.
Last I looked this was still a democracy and the next election cannot come soon enough! I can assure you that there are a massive number of very angry Australians!
Why the socialists in EU loved the carbon tax, because they’re socialists and any new tax always leads to more taxes of the same type.
It’s always starts with: It’s only for the biggest polluters trick.
Now they even tax biofuel like biogas, the supposedly clean green stuff.
The whole population of farmers in EU is wholly dependent on subsidies to make a full time living only because of all the taxes. First it was to reduce evil diesel, then evil clean diesel, evil petrol 98 oct, then evil clean petrol lead free, then evil green diesel and evil green petrol, then biofuel E85 and now evil biogas. And lol evil electricity for them nutty farmers that gone hybrid, because, well farmers belong to the agriculture industry and all industries electricity use is evil and has to be taxed.
And of course, to be safe, they tax the tax with energy tax and value added tax on top of everything.
So, essentially, when the tax income is reduced from one source a new source is tapped into, well, actually that is the past, today they tap into the new source pretty much right away long before the old source is tapped out, after all keeping the population dependent on subsidies are very expensive, especially since all the new green clean tech companies are wholly dependent on subsidies as well, and after all all the old evil corporations are still dependent on the old subsidies they got that was to mitigate that first new tax what with the chapter eleven issues.
Who said socialism wasn’t progressive? :p
A Pyrrhic victory for the watermelons.
In Australia there is a poignant saying that originally relates to the Aborigines’ situation: “Poor Fellow, My Country.”
As an Australian, I am taking comfort that while the legislation is a victory in battle for the warmists, in reality they have lost the war (and they know it). It will be repealed in 12 to 24 months, possibly at great cost due to the ‘poison pill’ structuring of the new laws. The repealing of the act will parallel other demises of the bizarre catastrophic man-made global warming cult. Then it will be no more.
It has been a great comfort for me to have found WUWT and its readers. Sincere regards and now I’m off (but back reading soon) to Oz’s great sceptical firebrand (who should be snapped up by the Liberal Party for parliament), Jo Nova. I’m going to put in my 2 cents that Tony Abbott (opposition leader) should call a Royal Commission into global warming as part of the process of dismantling the mad legislation of the Gillard Labor government. I’m sure you have an equivalent in the USA – is it a ‘Congressional Hearing’? – an independent judicial hearing into a matter of contention.
To you folks in Australia, this reminds me just too damned much of the U.S. presidential election in 1964.
The “Liberals” told us: “If you vote for Goldwater, we’ll be in a war on the Asian land mass in two years!”
I voted for Goldwater anyway, and damned if we didn’t wind up in a war on the Asian land mass less than two years later.
Democracy. The ancient Greek word meaning: “How the hell did we get in this mess?”
I always thought that Aussies were pragmatic, sensible grafters. Here in the UK we have had droves of people emigrating to Australia for just that reason, work hard, get on. But my opinion has been altered by events, this is a classic scam , and the population will have to take to the streets to get this “mad woman” and her colleagues off their backs. Shame really , they had been doing so well and were set to clean up in the coming Economic downturn. My thoughts are with you.
I believe an old European tradition ought to be imported by Aussies – namely, “OFF with their heads!” regicide.
A curious thing strikes me about strong socialistic interferance with the markets, such as the carbon tax, is that is tends to happen only in either the very poor, or the very richest, countries.
Richard Pipes of Harvard states that communism has only ever been able to gain power in countries which are either too poor and/or disrupted by war to properly resist it. I think the same happens at the other end of the spectrum, the only countries where the strongest ‘green’ or socialistic policies are put in place are the very richest. Australia is in a mining boom, so the politicians are able to get a carbon tax through partly because we are so well off as to be blind to the true costs of such a tax (and the fact that the academic-bureaucratic complex has to try and transfer some of the nation’s riches to itself, one way or another).
The middle-off countries don’t bother with extreme forms or socialism because the politicians can’t so easily swindle off the (lack of ) profits, and the poorer countries dont have any profits left over to be siphoned off.
“The average household is expected to pay about $9.90 a week in extra living costs, including $3.30 on electricity.However this will be offset by an estimated $10.10 in extra benefits and tax breaks. ”
Of course this is the thin edge of the wedge, over time the government will steadily reduce the $10.10 offset and retain complete control of Australian citizens lives. There is no such thing as a neutral tax, Ozzies should know this by now. Since almost no other countries outside the EU are planning to play the carbon game, the Australians are once again isolating themselves. Nothing new there.
Wasn’t it Lindzen who said He who controls carbon, controls life?
I actually took the time to read this ‘paper’ and, even though I will readily admit I am NOT a scientist, it appears to me to be almost complete pseudo-scientific gibberish.
“Emissions reductions of the order or larger than about 80%, relative to whatever peak global
emissions rate may be realized, are required to approximately
stabilize carbon dioxide concentrations for a century or so at
any chosen target level.This is the reason that the Copenhagen
Accord recognized a ‘target’ CO2 reduction of 80% by 2050,
though without binding commitments of the parties to the
Accord.”
So at what point will we know that the ‘peak global emission rate’ has occurred?
Near as I can tell the Copenhagen Accord did no such thing as ‘recognize a ‘target’ CO2 reduction of 80% by 2050 (assuming the good Professor meant ‘CO2 emission rate’ rather than ‘CO2 reduction’). It was in preliminary discussions, but was not in the final accord so it is inaccurate to state that the Accord ‘recognized a ‘target’ CO2 (emission) rate of 80% by 2050. Further, the emission reductions the Copenhagen Accord were targeting were not to ‘stabilize CO2 concentrations for a century or so’, they were meant to limit temperature increase to 2C or less by 2100. A ‘century or so’ — how long is that exactly? 100 years? 150 years? 200 years?
Sloppy, lazy and inaccurate.
JuLIAR wasnt elected, she got in by colluding with the( unelected also) green party. it still took the added 3 independants to turn against their own electorates to get her sorry a**into the Pm seat.
cant say what I really feel you’d have to edit it all heavily.
heard the news as I was about to eat, gave the food to the dogs, too upset to eat.
theres an old aussie rule needs using on this *****
Rule 303!
Spent two years living in Sydney, now living in Hong Kong. I won’t be going back.
Surely I must be able to buy a pacific island going cheap – what with all the rising oceans and all – I can no longer live in Australia.
Cedarhill, you might be interested to know that “Bless ‘Em All,” as originally written by my grandfather Fred Godfrey in 1917, actually was “[another word] ‘Em All.” The lyrics were cleaned up by two staff writers at Keith Prowse Music for publication in 1940 and the song was then popularized by a George Formby recording. For the full story of this famous song, please see my website at http://www.fredgodfreysongs.ca.
Incidentally, I agree that Gillard’s carbon tax is sheer madness; at least we in Canada have a prime minister (with a majority government) who is rightly skeptical of Lysenkoism, and we are sitting on the world’s second-largest reserves of oil that we are going to develop and sell come hell or high-dudgeoned greenies.
Hey, didn’t Gillard say she would never introduce a carbon tax?
It would be an idea to deconstruct the Oz carbon tax in a new thread so that people can understand the logic behind the decision to tax carbon. I don’t get it personally. Australia is a world leader in exporting carbon. Why would you want to tax that?
Never in the history of our land has so much been wrecked by so few.
Well, Mr. Delingpole has weighed in on this issue. He begins:
Hm. D’you think that la Gillard and her “Coalition” would’ve tried this insanity if the Australian people she holds in such contempt hadn’t been disarmed by government fiat?
Pointless? Failure is such a great teacher. It’s only pointless if the rest of the world doesn’t learn from Australia’s mistake.
OTH, the cynic in me says to watch for the battle cry to follow Australia’s lead and jump off the cliff so we won’t be ‘left behind.’ We saw the results of Spain’s green energy experiment and our current administration hailed it as a model.
I thought it was “Read my lips”, not “Kiss my lips”. Politicians lie. Film at 11.
Looks like one of the companies being targeted is Delta Electricity, owned by the Government of New South Wales. It has a portfolio of generating stations most using thermal coal. They burn 20 million tonnes of emissions a year. If this were all carbon that would amount to $460,000,000 in carbon tax from (what is essentially) a public utility.
1. Can the federal Australian government of Gillard tax a state/territory owned company? If the answer is yes, what a brilliant way to raise taxes – steal it from another government.
2. Do Australians know that they will be the net payers of the carbon tax through higher electricity rates?
3. How can a company with revenue of $1 billion pay a carbon tax of $0.46 billion when it only has net income of $.075 billion? (20 million tonnes x $23 per tonne).
4. How do convert 20 million tonnes of emissions into tonnes of taxable carbon?
Glad I live in Canada.
the dark ages are upon you….
Thanks Ozzies for volunteering to host this experiment! I will be watching with great interest.
I’d love to see Tim Flannery answering questions in front of a Royal Commissioner. A sweet idea to go to bed on.
fairsuckofthesaucebottle says:
October 11, 2011 at 11:27 pm
As an ashamed Australian, I am looking for a not too cold democratic country to spend the rest of my working life. Any suggestions?
________________________________________
We will ship all our green watermelons to Australia, along with our House and Senate and in exchange for the “awake” Australians.
Do you have a nice piece of outback full of snakes where we can dump them?
Luke Warm said on October 12, 2011 at 4:09 am:
Hate to disillusion you, Luke Warm, but when it comes to repealing a tax the likelihood is that the opposition of the day will use the mealy-mouthed argument: ‘What will you replace the lost revenue with?’ You see, once any government gets used to a revenue stream they hang on to it like grim death. The fact that the country survived without the revenue before today makes no difference, the politicians will want to know what you have to replace it. They, you see, do not see taxation as theft.
For all that, I support you in the hope that Labour/Greens get their cum-upance.
Being old enough to have been taught grammar, this annoys me:
“The passage of the bills are a crucial victory for Ms Gillard, whose popularity has fallen steadily since last year.”
Parse the sentence:
Subject: “The passage” singular (whether of time, bills, years, or miles doesn’t matter)
verb: to be, conjugate for the sentence subject, singular, therefore “is”
The nearest noun, as seems to be current fashion and as Word’s useless so-called grammar check, just won’t do.
SandyInDerby says:
October 11, 2011 at 11:55 pm
In a few years expect to see a similar picture of Ms Gilliard….
__________________
Naah,
She will probably follow in the footsteps of Tony Blair and become a part time consultant for JP Morgan at £2 million a year
To my Aussie friends. We made a similar leadership mistake here in the U.S. We partly rectified the problem in 2010 and will complete the job via the democratic process in 2012.
Remember, if you don’t like what’s happening, get out and VOTE (and bring a friend when you do).
So, when is their next election cycle?
I am sure the warmists are counting on the compensation to the individual to sway (buy) their support. I certainly hope not—I believe Aussies are not only the most fun people in the world, but they are also very smart in practical matters. Politics not so much, but they can learn.
The BBC 1PM News has come and gone and still not a mention of Julia’s success in negotiating the passage of the planet saving ETS bill.
Could it be that the freeze on the Licencing Fee has cut the numbers of reporters to such an extent that the Antipodes no longer have coverage, or could it be that the hysteria at Copenhagen stretched credulity too far and that the past two years of failed projections amid cool, sobering reality has finally slain the dragon myth that was AGW.
For whatever reason, the BBC are determined that this example of green stupidity will be kept from the British population and I for one have no doubt that they and our government now regard AGW as a lost cause.
Will we bail out their losses on green investments in their pension pots? I very much hope not.
Now is the time to turn our attentions to wind farms. Already the subject of sceptical scrutiny in a good part of our press, they now have a vulnerability that was not there just a few short months ago.
Chris Watson says:
October 12, 2011 at 1:28 am
It’s a bad policy, nevertheless your commentors shouldn’t be so hysterical. It won’t lead to economic catastrophe, and emotive hyperbole is unmanly and un-Australian!
_______________________________________________
You are forgetting that YOUR Aussie dollars are being sent to China and India and where ever to build up THEIR ECONOMIES. Economies that will not be saddled with a carbon tax, stringent pollution laws or high wages.
So yes it is. Just think of what has happened to the USA do to bad (GREEN) policy. We went from 24% of the work force in manufacturing to under 9% and now have a real unemployment rate headed for 25%
The wealth of a country is created by what your factory workers make and what your farmers grow. Both industries have been under attack in recent years by those who wish to push forward Global Governance It seems like the data is set at 2025
As someone else said, like lambs to the slaughter. From the working of the EU we have seen how the set-up strips away our self governing rights and replaces them with self appointed bureaucrats.
What has happened in BC since a carbon tax came into effect shows the unintended consequences of the legislation. Schools and hospitals are now spending millions annually to pay carbon taxes, rather than spending money to cut carbon emissions through such things as installing insulation and better furnaces.
Where does this money go? To BC Carbon Exchange who buy offsets from BC corporations that cut their own carbon emission by not building new plants in BC. It is corporate welfare of the worst kind. Companies being paid to not invest, using taxpayer money that was raised originally to improve schools and hospitals. Perhaps the most idiotic legislation every invented.
http://www.bluelikeyou.com/2011/05/10/b-c-school-boards-subsidizing-energy-companies/
.
The green totalitarism will foment civil war.
The first Atlantic crossing of the Titanic was more successful than what that kiss was celebrating. An entire nation was not at risk when the Titanic sank.
Its worst than we originally thought. The unintended consequences of carbon taxes. When you stand to make millions simply by planting trees, the first step is to take land from those people least able to defend themselves. In much of the world, rather than buy the land, it is much simpler and cheaper to bribe corrupt officials to help you steal the land.
Peasants and journalists are now being killed to secure land in the third world in return for EU carbon credits. How long before Australians are forced off their own land to pay the carbon taxes?
Forget about raising sheep and cattle. At $30 ton there is more to be made simply by not cutting down trees. As the price goes even higher, it becomes more profitable to get paid to save carbon by closing businesses rather than opening new ones.
http://www.euractiv.com/sites/all/euractiv/files/Honduras-FFM-Report-Bajo-Aguan.pdf
Well on the bright side a tonne of CO2 is selling for 5 cents. Therefore this should not be too hard on those who create jobs, supply energy, or generally contribute to Oz society.
Or are the politicians/liars in power deciding they can set their own CO2 rate?
enlightened comment on the bbc website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15269033?postId=110535881#comment_110535881
well it made laugh anyway
/Mango
H.R. says:
October 12, 2011 at 3:43 am
“However this will be offset by an estimated $10.10 in extra benefits and tax breaks.”
“It’s a safe bet that the “expected” $9.90 will be much higher and the “estimated” $10.10 will be much, much lower.”
It will work like this. The $9.90 will pay for a rise in the existing benefits;and a month later, a new “Make Australia more competitive” law will be released that cuts benefits by $9.90 again to give an incentive for the unemployed to find work; or some other arbitrary reason. This law will of course be entirely unrelated to the carbon tax.
At least they sugar coated it before they shoved it up your [self snip]! What you couldn’t taste it? It is a sad day for you folks. You have let yourselves be led to the stocks and strapped in. The first one was sugarcoated for your pleasure. I wonder how many will be surprised when the next phase is not for their pleasure, but for the pleasure of their progressive masters. Now that you are slaves, it is time to start the pain.
Great excitement about a minor tax to limit the extent to which human activity changes the chemical composition of the atmosphere seems unwarranted, especially as the tax is said to be offset by benefits and tax rebates.
British Columbia has had a carbon tax for years, also offset by rebates of other taxes, without slowing the economy relative to that of the rest of Canada.
What folks need to worry about is the other 50% or so of GDP that Western governments take in taxes, including the inflation tax, to achieve little, it seems, other than the construction of a police state.
The excitement and sense of triumph here is a lot like what happened right after prohibition was passed in the US. I just hope the tax stays as low as it sounds so the negative effects on Aus won’t be too bad.
The majority is always right! Go Democracy! Go Consensus!
Ozzie ozzie ozzie
Oy oy vey!
For the life of me I can’t get through my thick head what this is supposed to accomplish. They’re taxing the 500 largest “polluters” and I assume those companies will pass those costs onto the customers. Then the government turns around and refunds money to the taxpayers so they can pay the higher prices. What am I missing, it seems like a circle jerk to me with nothing getting accomplished.
If my information is correct, the Aussie carbon tax goes up every year for several years to encourage a phased reduction by “polluters”. The Department of Climate Change already has over 1000 people employed. Electricity providers will have no option but to ration electricity and there’s no way renewable energy will take up the slack. I wonder how long before homeowners start using blackout curtains so that the carbon police cannot see if they are using electricity outside their allocated hours. The ideal welfare government in the making: one that hands out money to encourage businesses and people not to work.
Misery loves company.
Its nice to know your government is as corrupt as ours in the US…
“However this will be offset by an estimated $10.10 in extra benefits and tax breaks.”
Not for the people paying for the benefits.
Bob Johnston says:
October 12, 2011 at 10:02 am
“What am I missing, it seems like a circle jerk to me with nothing getting accomplished.”
The only thing you are missing is how government works.
Personally, I think this whole Carbon Tax debate should have been handled in a more civilzed way – Thunderdome!
“Two politicians enter, only one leaves…”
Thanks for the alert, I just dumped stock in any company related to Australia.
James Reid says:
October 12, 2011 at 2:11 am
I shake my head in despair…..
Luckily I have some good productive land that maybe I can grow some food on and help feed the starving folks… providing I can still buy some deisel fuel for my tractor and some fertiliser :-).
_______________________________________________-
Get a pair of Draft animals that is what I did.
Unfortunately, at least here in the USA and the EU the same Sociopaths promoting the annihilation of western civilization via the carbon tax have also targeted food production via the United Nations and The World Trade Organization.
In the USA we have something called the Commerce Clause that will allow the US government to regulate home gardens if they wish.
The US government (USDA) in the lawsuit that reached the Supreme Court claimed that if Mr. Filburn grew wheat for his own use, he would not be buying it — and that affected interstate commerce. The supreme Court declared against the farmer stating:
“[The wheat] supplies a need of the man who grew it which would otherwise be reflected by purchases in the open market. Home-grown wheat in this sense competes with wheat in commerce.” Wickard v. Filburn 1942
Here is the idiocy cooked up by WTO and the UN.
Good Agricultural Practices
A multiplicity of Good Agricultural Practices (GAP) codes, standards and regulations have been developed in recent years by the food industry…. aiming to codify agricultural practices at farm level for a range of commodities….” http://www.fao.org/prods/gap/ [has links]
http://www.oie.int/fileadmin/Home/eng/Food_Safety/docs/pdf/GGFP.pdf
http://www.oie.int/doc/ged/D7201.PDF
I mention this because the traitor, Congressman Ed Markey, of the Waxman- Markey Carbon tax bill has also been pushing WTO/UN control of food in the USA . They finally slipped it through during the lame duck session last Christmas. With luck something similar is not planned for Australia but watch out for it. The politicians have already shot themselves in the foot they have nothing left to lose.
Australia already has part of the WTO agenda enacted with the Animal ID/traceability. Your fellow Australians warned us to Fight NAIS down to the last cowboy: Australia Beef Association presentation to R-CALF USA
Bloke down the pub says:
October 12, 2011 at 3:08 am
Julia said the ALP wanted to set a lead in the world by introducing this carbon tax. I suspect she was hoping to lead the world in reducing CO2 emissions, however I expect the lead will be in wrecking the economy.
_________________________________________
That is exactly how they will reduce Australia’s Carbon food print. Tank the entire economy.
In the infamous words of Obama’s Science Czar, John P. Holdren.
“The need for de-development presents our economists with a major challenge. They must design a stable, low-consumption economy in which there is a much more equitable distribution of wealth than in the present one. Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential if a decent life is to be provided for every human being.” 1973 book Human Ecology: Problems and Solutions
Sure sounds like Gillard read his book!
Roger Knights says:
October 12, 2011 at 3:40 am
Huh?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/pokies-report-calls-for-loss-limit-to-be-set-at-120-an-hour-before-restrictions-kick-in/story-fn59niix-1226051258217
In the US, Obama has pursued a policy of driving up energy prices as a way of “stimulating” the growth of the green economy. He is doing this by artificially constraining supply. Since energy prices are highly supply elastic (small changes is supply lead to large changes is prices), he’s able to manipulate prices by interfering with domestic production of oil and coal. But, this type of economic policy never works. Economies don’t work well when public policy drives them in the direction of inefficiency. As a result, the Obama economy is best described as a “soup kitchen” economy with stagnant economic growth and high long term unemployment.
Australia will now discover the same thing as they implement this carbon tax.
David Schofield says:
October 12, 2011 at 1:29 am
Oz coal industry will do very well. It’s selling as much as it can produce to China.
Yes, today it is. My point was that this situation will change when the Aussies slap a huge tax (export tariff) on coal produced in Australia and exported. Read what the law in the bill entails. The government of Australia is free to attack CO2 in any shape or form it wants. Aussies will have little toxic squiggly light bulbs coming out of their yin-yangs.
Then China at the end of the day will buy the cheaper product from the U.S. and Canada.
mpaul says:
October 12, 2011 at 11:34 am
One can call this The Law Of Intended Consequences.
Orson Olson says:
October 12, 2011 at 4:46 am
I believe an old European tradition ought to be imported by Aussies – namely, “OFF with their heads!” regicide.
______________________________________
If Katla goes off that may not be such a joke. Just do a search on “Strategic Grain Reserve” In 2008 when there were food riots in many countries, USDA Undersecretary Mark Keenum, said “Our cupboard is bare.” Whether grain reserves have been rebuild is difficult to determine since it doesn’t make the news until we run out. Bio-fuel has certainly not helped matters.
So far we have been a civilized bunch (and I certainly hope we stay that way) even the “Occupy Wallstreet” types. But there have been some warning “notes” The riots in the middle east and the UK and worse the killing of 94 people in the recent island camp massacre in Norway. The camp was not the usual kiddie camp but was actually a political camp, considered Norway’s nursery school for future leaders.
So “Madam Guillotine” may not be as much of a joke these days.
At the 2010 Australian federal election the Greens polled 11.8% of the vote. They’re now running the country through a minority coalition with the Labor Party and rammed through the world’s only economy-wide tax on carbon dioxide, which was opposed in one newspaper poll this morning by 80% of respondents.This is James Hansen’s totalitarian wet dream, zombies running wild in one of the world’s formerly rich countries, which is about to become immeasurably poorer, with rising unemployment, debt and interest rates. As James Delingpole observed yesterday, Australia has committed suicide.
roger says:
October 12, 2011 at 7:26 am
The BBC 1PM News has come and gone and still not a mention of Julia’s success in negotiating the passage of the planet saving ETS bill.
***************
The BBC is highly selective about what it reports from Australia (and they normally have a full time correspondent there). For example, AFAIK, the BBC never reported on the New South Wales state elections, which was one of the biggest Labor party defeats of all time. They did however report on some state elections in Germany which occurred around the same time (and which saw a swing to the Socialists).
Lance says:
October 12, 2011 at 6:37 am
the dark ages are upon you….
_________________________________
I sure wish you were kidding. I had hoped to be dead before the Sociopaths had managed to completely take over. Unfortunately they seem to be accelerating toward a world Totalitarian Government.
When a co2 tax was introduced in Norway, co2 emisiions climbed by 15%
http://www.climatechangedenier.com.au/carbon-tax/norway-an-example-of-a-carbon-tax-that-does-not-work/
The same site expects Oz’s emissions to climb as well.
http://www.climatechangedenier.com.au/carbon-tax/with-a-carbon-tax-australias-co2-emissions-still-increase/
ferd berple says:
October 12, 2011 at 7:55 am
Its worst than we originally thought. The unintended consequences of carbon taxes. When you stand to make millions simply by planting trees, the first step is to take land from those people least able to defend themselves……
_______________________________________
Thank you Fred, we are on the same page. You can not separate the WTO/UN/EU plans to oust farmers from their land from carbon taxes. No wonder Soros and Rothschild and other investors are rushing to invest in farmland like it was the next hot economic bubble! It is a win/win whether they plant corn or trees.
Genetically Modified Forest Planned for U.S. Southeast
The really downside of this is in the future there will be a very sharp rise in food prices, famine and riots. Getting rid of those eucalyptus is no easy matter either as I already mentioned.
“Under the legislation, about 500 of the biggest carbon-emitting companies in Australia will pay a price for each tonne of carbon. Most of the biggest emitters are electricity generating firms, mining companies and heavy industry manufacturers.
To compensate households, the government is cutting income taxes and boosting payments such as pensions and other benefits, as well as offering various lump sum payments.”
Ah, that is what they’ve been doing in Norway since WWII. I’s called socialism.
If the world is watching this I hope it is also examining public opinion in Australia where there is a 49% to 29% split between the dominant, anti-carbon tax Coalition and the struggling, pro-carbon tax Labor/Green government.
And the world knows that 6 days before the election Julia Gillard announced on national television there would be no carbon tax under any government she led and her deputy exclaimed that the Opposition Leader was “hysterical” for suggesting there would one be under a Labor Government.
And the world understands that to gain power (Julia Gillard did not “win” the election) she had to form a minority government with the Greens and some Left leaning independents in a house that is divided by one vote.
And the world is observing the price of the EUA which has plummeted to €10 ($A13.10) well below the fixed price of $A23 the Australian Government has placed on its tax for one tonne of CO2 as anxious companies in the UK and Greece are offloading their permits. And that it is unclear what effect this price differential will have on the Australian economy.
And the world knows that the Business Council of Australia has described Julia Gillard’s Green Alliance scheme as “Not Workable”.
And the world closely follows the health and behaviour of all Australian Labor politicians because a bye election in one of their seats would almost certainly result in a change of government.
And the world closely studies what happens to the climate in the next two years because if the Arctic doesn’t start disappearing and Australia is not plagued by bush fires and the Barrier Reef does not start dying Julia Gillard is going to be in bigger trouble than she is already.
I cannot believe that any government would do this to their citizens but then we have the UK freezing 25,000 of its citizens to death last year due to “fuel poverty”, more to come this year. This Green nonsense is now responsible for more deaths than two World War 2’s with 2 Holocausts.
As to a democratic, not cold country to move to, I am waiting for my house in the Bahamas to close, then moving there. They thnk their electricity is expensive. It is not as expensive as in Ontario plus internet, TV, phone, food, beer, smokes, etc is cheaper than here. No HST, No GST, no retail sales tax, no income tax. Plus the climate is warm so no heating bills. Other friends of mine have moved to Mexico. Even cheaper but I have a problem living in a country where English is not spoken.
Paul Deacon says:
October 12, 2011 at 12:40 pm
My point was that this news would normaly have been shouted from the rooftops of Broadcasting House but so far -nothing !
This passing of the carbon tax is “big news” in Australia…not…It made page 12 in the Adelaide Advertiser daily newspaper!
They are a resource colony of the PRC, PLA boots will be marching through Canberra someday, so in the grand scheme of things, none of this matters.
During that kiss (see above) they were secretly sharing their CO2 exhalations. This is a totally robust scientific fact.
Fred Allen says:
October 12, 2011 at 10:04 am
Electricity providers will have no option but to ration electricity and there’s no way renewable energy will take up the slack. I wonder how long before homeowners start using blackout curtains so that the carbon police cannot see if they are using electricity outside their allocated hours. The ideal welfare government in the making: one that hands out money to encourage businesses and people not to work.
That is what “smart” meters are for. I can’t wait for the “smart” appliances to become mandatory. That way the electric company can ration out the electricity. I’m sure you will be able to buy into an exclusive non-reduction contract…for a price.
Lesson to learn.
1) Never trust a politician
2) They do anything to get into power
3) All politicians believes their own lies is really not a lie
This is facts, Over and dover again.
We had the same situation about some tax the opposition vowed to remove. So well in power it was not so easy because they needed the money. We had many temporary taxes as well, Not a single one have been removed, they just been made permanent. We had the situation one party vowed to remove the taxation on real estate. They renamed it from tax to fee !!! So no if I have earned some money, payed my taxes, buy some wood and build a house I have to pay an additional fee every year because I build a house and did not buy beer. This is in a socialist country called Sweden. (I am out of it …. ). We also have hidden taxes like the garbage tax. Even if we do not have any garbage we still have to pay the fee.
Someone say we have the leaders we deserve, well we can’t help the ballot system do not provide us with qualified runners. We do not see any qualification or what abilities or if the candidate is trustworthy before the election. We have to vote and hope for the best. The system have severe flaws. A candidate that did lie or is caught with any wrong doing should be automatically suspended for life and any pension withdrawn.
Snotrocket says:
October 12, 2011 at 6:54 am
Luke Warm said on October 12, 2011 at 4:09 “For all that, I support you in the hope that Labour/Greens get their cum-upance.”
Ewww! I’ve seen some of that stuff on the net and it ain’t pretty! Still, they have no shame so they’ll gladly take it on the chin.
Apologies for that. Yesterday was indeed a black day in Australian history. If you put this in context of the media (News Ltd) enquiry, the National Broadband Network (govt monopoly) and secret internet filter (including political sites), then not only is this one of many black days to come, but an alarming trend in Australian government control.
I feel bad for the Australians. On the one hand you seem to have a government that understandably does not want to be a forgotten nation among developed anglo-saxon nations, and in this case they seemed to desire to prove themselves up to the task of leading the world. Unfortunately the path they chose to take to make this happen was one which was politically convenient towards those ends rather than pragmatically sound for their constituents. Sorry guys, but this is what happens when we leave it to politicians to look after themselves first.
The sad thing is those people have convinced themselves they just helped save the world and looked good doing it. Obviously it goes without saying that humans have a remarkable capacity for self-deception.
hilarious. If they lose the semi-final …then let’s write off the continent for the bunch of losers they are.
Difficult to decide which is more appalling – carbon tax, or The Very Wonderful Julia Gillard kissing That Nice Mr. Rudd.
Either way, we’re doomed.
@kingkp
“hilarious. If they lose the semi-final …then let’s write off the continent for the bunch of losers they are.”
Disgusting attitude. Not all of us rolled over and took it where the sun don’t shine. Remember, the acts of the minority do not reflect the majority.
Time to move Australia from the “developed” to the “developing” nations list.
Can Australia be downgraded from a continent to just an island? If Pluto can be downgraded from being a planet, why not have a continent become an island?
Besides, as an developing island nation, they’ll qualify to be receiving carbon indulgence money instead of paying it out. Also all those oily eucalyptus trees fueling the rampant wildfires will go from being a nuisance to valuable carbon storage projects. And after nature causes a devastating fire that wipes out a slew of them, exacerbated if not caused by the ravages of global warming, they can get paid for replanting them. Getting paid multiple times for having the same number of trees, how sweet a deal is that?
Yep, passing this bill can potentially be a great win-win situation for Australia, once they get the cartographers and similar on board. Any day now the money will just start rolling in, and Australians will all be incredibly rich*! Good times for all!
*by 3rd-world standards, which appear to be good enough for everyone per UN policy (stated and otherwise), save for actual UN personnel and their business/political associates who obviously need better compensation due to their sheer awesome greatness.
It is very easy to calculate using widely available world emission data, and the IPCC figure of about 3.3 deg C per doubling, that even if Australia cut all carbon emissions immediately the reduction in average world temperature from our noble sacrifice would be about 0.04 deg C.
A recent committee report published their estimate that cost of achieving even the much smaller reductions proposed would be one trillion A$.
Now there is a case study in cost benefit analysis for you!
This is on par with Barry’s desire to “compete” with the Chinese making solar panels. I’m sorry, but he’s such a moron.
Sunspot says:
October 12, 2011 at 3:47 am
The tax on power stations is suppose to force the move to alternate green power plants. I dread to think how high the Carbon Tax needs to go to make these alternate green power plants viable.
–
Read the fine print in the Government’s proposal (back page) – the initial $23 a tonne of CO2 and the following rises are estimated to result in an INCREASE of 16% in emissions by 2020, but by 2050 the tax rate wanted is $131.50 and that is forecast to reduce emissions by 6%.
I sent my copy back with the comment “If a business you issued a prospectus as false as this, they would, quite properly, be prosecuted for fraud”.
One commenter to an article in the Australian proclaimed the passing of the tax as, “a great day for those people with respiratory diseases.”
We’re boned- till Tony saves us.
Good news from Australia. Well done Labor.
well Australia has now entered the realm of Stupid is as stupid does… How long before they collapse their economy, whats left of it…..
Re JB: If we needed any more proof that some folks are complete economic illiterates and Big Government tools, we now have it. How anyone could believe that enormous, unnecessary tax increases, based on a known and provable lie can possibly be good for the citizens beggars the imagination.
Visit Australia in a few years and it will look those scences from Mad Max where the few survivors of the destroyed country are at war over the remaining petrolium.
Time to re-fit the Prius as the new Road Warrior…. !
A day of infamy. The Gillard – Rudd Labor government has bombed our economy.
It’s even worse with the Australian Treasury acknowledging that the CO2 tax won’t lead to emission reductions here – instead we’ll meet our targets by wasting billions of dollars annually on carbon credit certificates bought overseas.
There is one bright spot (well, not for Australians), if Gillard gets kicked out in two years time I think many countries will think twice about introducing a carbon tax.
Considering getting a diesel generator for my home to cope with blackouts.
Graeme from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia – Now in the temporary grip of Green Fascist Tyranny.
It will take time to rebuild – but first we must bottom to illustrate to everyone the folly of the socialist/fascist/greens.
CodeTech says:
October 12, 2011 at 12:14 am
I just spent a bunch of time reading that Sydney Morning Herald article.
…..
I’d like to track down these jubilant commenters in a year or two and see how they’ve fared.
________________________________________________________________________
They’ll probably be working at Whistler or in one of the resorts of the Canadian Rockies with all the other Australian expats that come over to sample the skiing and stay for two or three years (or decades). That way they won’t have to pay but they can be happy with what they accomplished in Australia while living in dirty old Oilberta. 😉
I do hope Australians will show here and her party the door with a well placed carbon footprint …
bubbagyro says:
October 12, 2011 at 11:38 am
David Schofield says:
October 12, 2011 at 1:29 am
Oz coal industry will do very well. It’s selling as much as it can produce to China.
Yes, today it is. My point was that this situation will change when the Aussies slap a huge tax (export tariff) on coal produced in Australia and exported. Read what the law in the bill entails. The government of Australia is free to attack CO2 in any shape or form it wants. Aussies will have little toxic squiggly light bulbs coming out of their yin-yangs.
Then China at the end of the day will buy the cheaper product from the U.S. and Canada.
——————————————————————————————————————
yep – China is buying in to energy in western Canada in a big way and the CPR and CNR railways are going flat out hauling coal to the west coast terminals. Their stocks have done well even through the global financial meltdown. Gillard’s bill is probably worth a few points on investments in rail and energy in Canada and the US. That’s something Gillard clearly doesn’t understand. In today’s world, money is extremely mobile. Watch out for the next step, if she puts constraints on Australian investment outside the country then you will be in for a rough ride.
I love the shell-gaminess of this: they tax the “big emitters,” who pass along the costs to consumers, who are then given tax credits to offset the costs. So nobody pays anything! Which makes perfect sense as a non-solution for a problem which doesn’t exist.
Once the 18 parts of the new laws pass through the upper house (or senate) there is actually still some issues that would need to be cleaned up as well. Issues involve state governments ‘recouping’ losses via extra taxes themselves with NSW state government looking to bring its own mining tax in to pick up the bill of expected $950 million in losses from the carbon tax.
There is also the chance of state governments passing legislation maxing it illegal to collect tax on carbon within their confines, it has already been suggested and perhaps when QLD vote out Cap’n Bligh next year might be enacted by the conservatives.
One thing people from other countries must understand that say unlike other parties which may allow the odd politician to cross the floor and vote against something they feel strongly about the Labor party of Australia forbids this practice completely. Once the Caucus passes a bill all members of parliment who are affiliated with Labor MUST vote in favour of that bill. This leaves the independants and minor parties as the only groups that can help change the situation when Labor are in power. The radical anti-human Greens hold balance of power in the senate while 3 independants and 1 Green hold the balance in the lower house (House of Representitives). All 3 independants were actually former members of the National Party who are members of the conservitive Coalition. Of those one sided with the conservatives (Bob Katter), while the other two sides with the Labor Party. Oakeshott, one of the independants seemed to have NSW Labor roots so to me it was surprising that he managed to get Nationals representation for the seat originally before going independant, while Windsor (the other former National now independant) is cousin of a bloke called Hawker who funnily enough ran the Federal Labor campaign in the last election….. Hawker is also very chummy with Oakeshott.
In a link similar to revisionist policies practiced at SkS and removal of opposition at RealClimate the government and affiliated climate bodies refused to accept petitions in any form skeptical of their own little personal climate concensus or policy even if the committee was there to review public submission on the subject. http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2011/10/joint-select-committee-dissenting-submissions-excluded-because-they-were-not-relevant/ . In this we also have mention of the bizarre statements made by (sad to say) Australia’s Chief Scientist who is attributed to such amazingly dazzlingly brilliant statement such as “warmest decade we have ever had on this planet” http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2011/09/ian-chubb-warmest-decade-we-have-ever-had/comment-page-1/ .
So between Flannery, Garnaut, Chubb, Gillard, Rudd and the Greens we were boned to start with.
That is a kiss of death. They are going to bury themselves with the carbon.
$23AUD per tonne of CO2.
Hmmm what will $23AUD be worth in 2013?
Currencies can easily lose value.
Graeme No.3 says:
October 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Sunspot says:
October 12, 2011 at 3:47 am
The tax on power stations is suppose to force the move to alternate green power plants. I dread to think how high the Carbon Tax needs to go to make these alternate green power plants viable….
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Sounds like it is time to talk to you neighbors about one of the mini-nuclear power plants. You even have a choice of several companies and designs. Time to study up on what option to go with. I wonder if the government woud pay you and your neighbors “carbon credits”
Toshiba Builds 100x Smaller Micro Nuclear Reactor
“Toshiba has developed a new class of micro size Nuclear Reactors that is designed to power individual apartment buildings or city blocks. The new reactor, which is only 20 feet by 6 feet, could change everything for small remote communities, small businesses or even a group of neighbors who are fed up with the power companies and want more control over their energy needs.
The 200 kilowatt Toshiba designed reactor is engineered to be fail-safe and totally automatic and will not overheat. Unlike traditional nuclear reactors the new micro reactor uses no control rods to initiate the reaction….”
Mini Nuclear Power Plants Could Power 20,000 Homes
“PhysOrg.com) — Underground nuclear power plants no bigger than a hot tub may soon provide electricity for communities around the world. Measuring about 1.5 meters across, the mini reactors can each power about 20,000 homes. (Please see below for an update)
The small energy modules were originally designed by Otis “Pete” Peterson and other scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. Now, the technology is being commercially developed by Hyperion Power Generation, which recently announced that it has taken its first orders and plans to start mass production within five years…..”
MiniFuji Thorium Reactor Group Talks to Potential Partners and Customers and Prototype GE-Hitachi Prism Integral Fast Reactor for Savannah River
“Mr. Fukushima stated that IThEMS is negotiating with Korean Shipbuilders over the potential sale of Mini-Fujis for ship propulsion systems. According to Mr.Fukushima the Korean shipbuilders are in competition with the Chinese, and view mini-Fuji power as potentially offering a competitive advantage…. IThEMS claims that it can build the Fuji for 30% less than conventional water cooled reactors. Thus ship propulsion would appear to represent a market opportunity for the Mini-Fuji. Industrial process heat would be another. The Mini-Fuji would also serve as the energy source for a stand alone nuclear battery system, although that field looks crowded at the moment. The Mini-Fuji would have some advantages over its competitors including superior safety and low cost….”
A prime reason why per capita Australia seems to be a large carbon producer is that nuclear power has been banned for decades.
A second reason is that we’re a large country in area, with a small population, so the per capita cost of actions like building asphaly roads and flying betwen destinations id high.
A third reason is that a large majority is convinced that Australia’s GHGs are doing nothing significant to the climate.
A final reason is that the case for claiming GHGs are damaging has been put by people who have little idea of life outside the tiny shell of ignorance under which they shelter all day, ducking out now and then to cash remarkable pay checks.
What happened to probity?
Just another round in the game, we have seen this before, except that this time we the voters didn’t bring this lot into government so it will be easier to remove. I sort of love the inane celebratory remarks of those who haven’t been around long enough to have seen labor self destruct once before, or witnessed the breast beating of those that actually voted them in, only to find that they had been sold a pup.
This time its just pup poop and taxing a non existent problem, so likely the change will come twice as fast and much harder when the celebrators find the “real” truth. The majority of us know this tax has nothing to do with climate or climate change, its an economists scheme,no more no less, and the mindless will wake up eventually to the same conclusion and the government will fall.
A word of caution though, windfall tax is hard to refuse by any incoming government, so don’t expect Tony Abbot or any other new leader to throw it out completely. Likely it will be converted partly into a tax “securing the future of Australia” creating “jobs” for those that want to work and “new clean energy” e.g. nuclear for the future proofing of our children’s future. It might even be retained as an anti pollution agent of change and used to protect industry and jobs by applying taxes to imports from countries that have polluting industries and exploitation. Maybe – China – India, and others. A new form of “legitimate” protection to our own industry, and away from restriction free trade!!
We live in interesting times and man is very adaptable, “weather” we like it or not and it IS just another game – and we like to win at sport!!
Gillard & her cronies are vacuous fraudulent criminals, they must be held accountable
in a Court of Law. When a cashier has been sentenced to nine years in prison for stealing $27 million from Flinders University, how many more years must Gillard an her cronies serve for stealing billions of dollars from Australian industry and Australian people with the fraudulent “carbon tax” ?
They are doing exactly what this crim did, and yet Gillard and chums smile and laugh about it.
Al GoreKevin Rudd is NOT THE MESSIAH … He’s a VERY Naughty Boy !Pinched from the comments in Dellers’ blog, thanks to Old Goat for this.
Once a jolly Sheila
tried to run Australia
under the shade of a wind-turbine tree
and she laughed and she sang
as she introduced a carbon tax
who’ll come and screw the economy with me
Screwing Australia,
screwing Australia
who’ll come a-screwing Australia with me?
and she laughed and she sang
as she introduced a carbon tax
who’ll come and screw the economy with me?
So the bill got passed, with a slight majority
I’m gonna screw you all said she
and she laughed as she grabbed Rudd
and tried to lick his visage off
‘You’ll be the first, Kev, come along with me’
Screwing Australia,
screwing Australia
who’ll come a-screwing Australia with me?
And she laughed and she sang
as she introduced a carbon tax
who’ll come and screw the economy with me
Up rushed a sceptic, (also a coal miner)
accusing her of ecocide
‘who’s gonna feed my kids’ said he?
‘I’m f**ked if I’m gonna pay your stupid carbon tax’
And walked to his death in the nearby sea
Screwing Australia,
screwing Australia
who’ll come a-screwing Australia with me?
and she laughed and she sang
as she introduced a carbon tax
who’ll come and screw the economy with me
Along came a Plimer (Monckton bringing up the rear)
along came Bob Carter, realists all three
and they got hold of Gillard,
grabbed her firmly round the neck
and hung her by the tonsils from a coolibah tree
Freeing Australia,
freeing Australia,
who’ll help us free Australia from this tyranny
And they laughed and they clapped
as they swept away that government
thus returning Oz to a land for the free
Crocodile Dundee must have died. I guess my long-believed myth that Aussies were that vital take-no-nonsense,-in-your-face pragmatists that no one pushes around was wrong in spades. Whatever happened to you down-unders. You used to provide hope for us politically correct types.
We the world tank our Australian friends for their self proscribed energy austerity and the lower demand that will create in the world market.
Ah who am I kidding, Australian businesses with cheat just like everyone else.
Gary Pearse says:
October 13, 2011 at 9:59 am
Crocodile Dundee must have died. I guess my long-believed myth that Aussies were that vital take-no-nonsense,-in-your-face pragmatists that no one pushes around was wrong in spades. Whatever happened to you down-unders. You used to provide hope for us politically correct types.
Gary
Were once had an abundance of that, it was called gumption and guts, but soft living and influxes from overseas diluted the stock with a new breed of greenants, who like the Australian whiteants take away from the integrity and structure of the country. Hopefully before the structure collapses completely we will again unite in the face of adversity, just like our forefathers did and stop the internal rot.
The big need now is restoring science and exposing the full extent of the deceptions and overcooked data by those who did so much damage to Climate science and by association to the world depth and breadth of science itself. When that exposure is completed, it will be hard to find any thinking person that will admit their former advocacy or how they came to be fooled in the process.
Reform will come when scientists stand up and support each other rather than toeing the line with those that have had snouts in the trough – bought and sold science”ism” might just be a thing of the past.
With both of them being the Political Whores that they are ,DID they plan this between them from the beginning ? They both have very smug smiles.
The danger faced by a person who convinces John Q. Public to spend money on behalf of a noble cause is that Mr. Public may not believe he was simply the victim of a ‘noble mistake’ if that cause is later found not to be as valid as everyone had thought.
Frank K. – we have compulsory voting in this country. All of our friends are required to vote.
Gary Pearse says:
October 13, 2011 at 9:59 am
“Crocodile Dundee must have died”
Yep. And when “Mick Dundee” himself, aka. Paul Hogan last came back to the Big Island for his Ma’s Funeral, he was houded and arrested by the Govermnet for tax avoidance, on work he had done, and payed tax on already in the USA.
Shameful, after all the man had contributed to the Tourism industry, and to comedy and drama in general over many years in Australia, before he became an international movie star.
😡
Clarke and Dawe on the carbon tax
http://youtu.be/Eztp0ZXyQhU
good humor bad news