Hans Labohm writes in an email:
Dear all,
Pursuant to my earlier e-mail, I am sending you the translation of my posting on DDS.
The posting has been published now on:
See the translation below. (Feel free to improve my English).
Best,
Hans H.J. Labohm
Translation:
Dutch parlementarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) bells the cat
By Hans Labohm
The Daily Standard, June 27, 2011
In his intervention in a recent parliamentary climate debate, René Leegte (VVD) elaborated on the adverse effects of climate change on food security.
René Leegte:
‘There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production – with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now. The regions destined to feel its impact are the great wheat-producing lands of Canada and the U.S.S.R. in the North, along with a number of marginally self-sufficient tropical areas – parts of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indochina and Indonesia – where the growing season is dependent upon the rains brought by the monsoon.
The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it. In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline by about two weeks since 1950, with a resultant overall loss in grain production estimated at up to 100,000 tons annually. During the same time, the average temperature around the equator has risen by a fraction of a degree – a fraction that in some areas can mean drought and desolation. Last April, in the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars’ worth of damage in 13 U.S. states.
To scientists, these seemingly disparate incidents represent the advance signs of fundamental changes in the world’s weather. .. Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. …. [..] the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.’
So far the usual climate alarmism, to which the we have become accustomed. So, nothing unusual – except that these words were spoken by a classical liberal. But then – surpise, suprise – René Leegte went on:
Chairman,
You may have noticed already that this quote comes from a Newsweek article of April 28, 1975. The world was mesmerized by climate change, because of global cooling. A new ice age was in the offing. And mankind had to prevent it. It was the era of the Den Uyl [Dutch socialist prime minister] government, which firmly believed in social engineering – climate being no exception. It is less than forty years ago. What have we learned since?
But now we talk about global warming. We pretend to have a better understanding, but the data on which we rely – the long-term temperature measurements – largely come from the same sources, which earlier told us that the earth would cool.
It is clear that many people begin to feel increasingly uncomfortable with the climate debate. Countries like Canada, Japan and Russia refuse to take part in a follow up of Kyoto. That makes sense, because while we witness a new record in the emission of CO2 (and believe me, every year we will break new records) the temperature curve has remained flat.
I call upon the government to come up – as soon as possible after the recess, but well before the budget debate – with an explanation of why the IPCC models project ever-increasing warming, while the measurements show a leveling off.
The current climate debate is the wrong debate. It’s the wrong debate, because the real problems of the moment are drought, health, biodiversity, food and energy.
We should not pretend that climate policy offers a solution to these problems. Climate is the wrong issue. We should not pretend that if we reduce human CO2 emissions, we might solve the real problems. I envy those who believe in those fairy tales. But I am very concerned about all the money we waste on pursuing the wrong priorities.
I would like to invite the Minister to promise that he will urge his European partners to pay equal attention to the views of climate realists, thus ensuring more balance in the discussion, so that we can find real solutions to problems where we can make a difference.
So far René Leegte.
Last minute news
On the front page ‘De Telegraaf’ posted the following article.
‘Met Office is partisan in climate debate’
VVD: Dissolve Met Office
by Inge Lengton
THE HAGUE, Tuesday
The Met Office must be dissolved. That is the position of the VVD [Dutch classical liberal party], which accuses the institute of bias in the climate debate.
According to Liberal MP Leegte, the Met Office is too much prejudiced in favour of the CO2-driven warming hypothesis. “Eighty percent of the scientists of the KNMI are honest, but 20 percent are not independent. That is unacceptable for an institute that receives every year 60 million euros of public funding.”
According to the VVD fraction the Met Office is exclusively focussed on CO2 as a culprit for the rise in global temperatures, while the real problem is probably wider, says Leegte.
“The Met Office seems to believe that if we solve the CO2 problem, we are solving the climate problem, but it does not work that way. The earth’s temperature fluctuates. To what extent this has to do with CO2, is uncertain.”
Leegte suggests that in the future the Met Office might outsource certain tasks, such as climate research and weather alerts. “Meteo Consult can do it, but also foreign universities or institutes,” says Leegte. “As long as they are independent.”
So far ‘De Telegraaf’
Could René Leegte picked up these ideas from the mainstream media? No way, Dutch newspapers like De Volkskrant, NRC/HB and Trouw, only publish articles which are conducive to spreading the climate gospel that man-made CO2 causes temperatures to rise. But maybe he has been a regular reader of The Daily Standard?
Readers who want information on alternative views, might consult the following links:
http://fgservices1947.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/ten-climate-fairy-tales-%E2%80%93-hans-Labohm/
http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2011/06/zon-binnenkort-in-winterslaap
http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2011/05/de-co2-obsessie
http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2011/06/de-co2-obsessie-2
http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2011/06/klimaatdiscussie-overzicht-van-argumenten-pro-en-contra
Bureaucrats and academics have corrupted science everywhere. It is all about money and control of other peoples lives.
First Geert Wilders, now René Leegte – there’s something strange going on in the state of Denmark. Perhaps this wave of sanity and common sense will spread.
Finally, some are beginning to see the light of the truth in all this darkness! We might finaly discover the truth, that man is not in control.
Much the same as the UK Met Office….
The only difference is that no sitting MP in the UK has had the courage to stand up and state the obvious.
“There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production…”
The ONLY change affecting food production is this rediculous belief humans are changing the climate, in a bad way, through burning fossil fuels. Added to that devoting LAND to bio-fuel production (Heh! Coal, gas and oil ARE biol fuels). There is plenty of food producing capacity. The only real issues are poor management, ie, Govn’t meddling and inflation (Due to LAND being set asside for making fuel rather than food). Apart from this, yes, get rid of The Met.
Old SOL will prove, soon, our “leaders” are “smart”. They know with no production, earnings and consumption, there is only one tax revenue stream, the energy we use and the air we breathe!
A better translation of
Dutch parlementarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) bells the cat
would be
Dutch parlementarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) sets the cat amongst the pigeons
or
Dutch parlementarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) drops a bombshell
My word. Somebody who gets it.
It would be nice if they could abolish ours while they are about it! There must be a universal thing about met ofices. Oh wait! Don’t tell me it’s all about money?
Labohm is a respected serious scientist. However that doesn’t get picked up in the MSM. What does get picked is the parliamentarian (who granted is not really a bright shining light) and the AGW camp is mocking him to death in the MSM.
Like: If you don’t like the results you just fire them.
The dutch MSM are seriously about the worst quality of any country, Iran included.
It would appear that there is a leak in the dyke due to René Leegte extracting his finger
The Dutch are fast becoming the leaders in multiple fields – for instance the Dutch have instituted a new policy that multiculturalism has been a failure and have revered to the policy of if you seek to immigrate to that region then you have to embrace Dutch values or no entry. Sanity at last. Now this – taking the lead in the AGW debate. Who would have imagined an European nation in the heart of the AGW paradise telling the world this is the fake all of us here know full well and have been fighting so long? Sanity is beginning to rear its head once again – and they are on the correct side of history. Without the leftists media in the western world this AGW scam would have collapsed ten years ago. On the other hand, we have won nothing yet, the fight goes on. However, we are making inroads – soon, very soon, more will follow OUR lead.
You ask for corrections:
The only 2 changes I would make are to the headline:
Dutch parlementarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) bells the cat
should idiomatically (and with spelling corrected):
Dutch parliamentarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) sets cat among the pigeons.
I think that would be the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute (KNMI), not the Met Office on the other side of the English Channel.
Mr. Leegte writes:
“I call upon the government to come up – as soon as possible after the recess, but well before the budget debate – with an explanation of why the IPCC models project ever-increasing warming, while the measurements show a leveling off.”
God Bless Mr. Leegte.
Notice the word ‘explanation’. It is the word that Warmista dare not speak. Warmista have no explanation for anything. Statistics cannot explain.
A most interesting read. Seems to portray the study of climate as the solution to the worlds’ problems as misspent resource.
No matter which way the CO2 knob is turned, the climate goes where it damn well pleases. The knob controls nothing, but the test mice continue to fiddle with it.
Give the arena of weather and climate back to those who have the means to make sense of it: The meteorologists.
Dutch treat! Had me going for a minute.
Nothing much wrong with that translation. Certainly a damn sight better than my Dutch! If you want me to be be picky this sentence would be improved by moving the words “every year” to the end, rather than before 60 million
That is unacceptable for an institute that receives every year 60 million euros of public funding.
And Could René Leegte picked up these ideas from the mainstream media? should read “pick up “. But otherwise, a good article.
I don’t so much want to point out any flaws in your English, but I do wonder:
“Bell the Cat”?
This is great news. Sanity from the country which first used windmills too!
if only my MP in the UK had the balls to own up like this…..
Dutch parlementarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) bells the cat
probably better translated as
Dutch parlementarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) sets the cat amongst the pigeons
or
Dutch parlementarian René Leegte (VVD, Classical Liberal Party) drops a bombshell
“We should not pretend that climate policy offers a solution to these problems. Climate is the wrong issue. We should not pretend that if we reduce human CO2 emissions, we might solve the real problems. I envy those who believe in those fairy tales. But I am very concerned about all the money we waste on pursuing the wrong priorities.”
How very true.
Can we have this guy in our govt in the UK? Perhaps he could replace “Buff” Huhne!
There is a precedent for Belling the Cat
Bell-the-Cat
Archibald Douglas, Earl of Angus, was so called. James III. made favourites of architects and masons. One mason, named Cochrane, he created Earl of Mar. The Scotch nobles held a council in the church of Lauder for the purpose of putting down these upstarts, when Lord Gray asked, “Who will bell the cat?”
“That will I,” said Douglas, and he fearlessly put to death, in the king’s presence, the obnoxious minions.
Read more: Bell-the-Cat —
Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/brewers/bell-the-cat.html#ixzz1Qb1IQLha
Cool! I mean Hot!
Am I now a climate realist?
Wow! The Dutch lead the enlightenment, again!
U.S.S.R?? This guy really seems to know what he is talking about
Oops! didn’t read it through. Sorry!
ik had al gedacht: wanneer gaan die Hollanders toch een keer wakker worden
…..
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/henrys-pool-table-on-global-warming
The competitive nature of man is exhibited through the actions of nations. While those who are seeking a unified global socialistic eden want to subvert those tendencies, the problem is that too many see a weakness and exploit it. In the case of the Global Warming proponents, the problem is they could not reach into all the governments and take control. They did in most of the open and democratic ones through their propaganda, but the more closed ones then saw an opportunity and began to exploit it. China demanded 3rd world status, when clearly they are the worst poluters and rapidly approaching the largest economy in the world. India was on a similar track as was Brazil and a host of other countries that were once third world, and at worst can be called 2nd world today. They saw the leader (1st world, G20 if you like) pausing and took advantage.
Their problem may be they grabbed too soon. Or perhaps not if the restrictions of Cancun, kyoto and Copenhagan are still forced upon the first world economies. But I think their resistance to any limitations are the reason that those protocols failed and are failing. While the leaders of the 1st world can continue to be starry eyed and myopic, the reality of the data is belying the hysteria, and they risk sending their own economies into a permanent recession. While they may be willing to do that, their populaces are not. Greed and selfishness is making even some believers in AGW want to see “the other guy” make concessions before crippling their own life style. And that delay, along with simple mother nature herself, will eventually relegate this episode to a foot note in history.
For God’s sake spell correctly if you wish to be taken seriously
parl IA mentarians
Interesting to see the blinkers being torn away!
In New Zealand we recognised that the settlers from Holland after WWII were realistic, pragmatic and hard-working people; many did very well from their hard work and their good business sense. It seems this strain runs deep in the Dutch character and parlimentarian Rene Leegte would appear to typify the hard-working and sensible Dutchman who become such excellent Kiwis over the years..
Every revolt begins with one man.
Let us hope there is more than one brave politician in the VVD to get the ball rollling in European politics.
The lust for gold has more to do with the CO2 claims of the Hockey Stick Gold Miners Union than any other thing.
Mean while our incompetent Met Office pocket another round of bonus money!!!!
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Outlook-sunny-staff-Met-Office-bonus-handed/story-12840064-detail/story.html
Nice if you Can Get It???
The People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD) (Dutch: Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie) is a conservative-liberal[1][2] political party located in the Netherlands. The VVD supports private enterprise in the Netherlands and is often perceived as an economic liberal party[3][4] in contrast to the social-liberal Democrats 66 (D66) alongside which it sits in the European Parliament. After the fourth Balkenende cabinet was formed, the VVD was the second largest opposition party in the House of Representatives. During the Dutch general-election of 2010 the VVD obtained the highest number of votes cast, resulting in their occupying 31 of the 150 seats in the House of Representatives. The VVD is currently the senior party in a centre-right minority coalition with the Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA), the Rutte cabinet, supported by the Party for Freedom (PVV) to obtain a majority. Current Prime Minister of the Netherlands Mark Rutte is the VVD party leader since May 31, 2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Party_for_Freedom_and_Democracy
I was expecting the VVD to be akin to UKIP, a minor party, with no representation in their own state legislature. So, an interesting development. Any appeal to their “European partners” will fall on completely deaf ears, so desperate are they to get money into the coffers, to funnel it into their pockets & those of Greek politicians & unions, to prop the Euro up for a few months more.
May God bless Dutch parlimentarian René Leegte!!!
Fantastic news. Maybe some sense of sanity will begin to return. I just wish this could have been a British politician talking … some hope.
Bravo! Yet another sign of the tides of change.
Whenever they talk about the “declining growing season”, why don’t they mention the change in the earth’s tilt axis?
From Wiki:
“…The Earth’s axial tilt varies between 22.1° and 24.5° with a 41,000 year period, and at present, the tilt is decreasing. In addition to this steady decrease there are much smaller short term (18.6 years) variations, known as nutation, mainly due to the changing plane of the moon’s orbit. This can shift the Earth’s axial tilt by plus or minus 0.005 degree…”
From another source: “…Peter Huybers of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution and Carl Wunsch of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology have compared the timing of the tilt variations with that of the last seven ice ages. They found that the ends of those periods – called glacial terminations – corresponded to times of greatest tilt…”
And this: “…Earth’s axis is currently pointing at the North Star, Polaris, but it is always rotating around in a conical pattern. In about 10,000 years, it will point toward the star Vega, which will mean that winter in the Northern Hemisphere will begin in June instead of January. After 20,000 years, the axis will again point at Polaris…”
So the eart’s constant movement could also be causng changes in the :”growing season”.
Of course, it could just be as simple as the CO2 levels. Science still isn’t sure…
The Dutch have always struck me as some of the most socially minded people in the world — social, community and global concerns are always at the surface. It is one of the most endearing things about them. But this seems to have made then most vulnerable to this scare. Only this month I noticed in conversation that the issue remains on the surface of daily concern…and so I can really appreciate the significance of an intervention such as this.
As stated above by Mr. Leegte, rather than focus on CO2-forced Climate Change, the primary concerns are: drought, health, biodiversity, food and energy. I shall address each individually:
Drought: Evidence shows there’s actually more rainfall overall as the earth warms up. Contrarily, as the earth goes through a cooling cycle, expect to see more drought. If the earth is warming up on top of these temperature cycles, precipitation should be on the general increase.
Health: I can’t see where having a warmer earth is worse than having a colder earth–more people freeze than die of the heat; more colds, influenza and other diseases are the results of insufficient warmth.
Biodiversity: Plants and animals thrive in a warmer climate. That’s obvious. And so do humans.
Food: A warmer climate supports more plant growth and the food we derive from them. The same goes for cattle, pigs, etc.
Energy: A warmer climate isn’t going to be a factor in energy production after the E-Cat goes into production. Home units based on this energy source are expected the first quarter of 2012.
Super,
This reminds me of one of Richard Lindzen’s presentations,
“The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places seals are finding the water too hot. Reports all point to a radical change in climate conditions Expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81deg.29min. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared”
US Weather Bureau, 1922
Like the Berlin wall before it, it is clear that the last bastions of climate alarmism are beginning to crumble. And now, as the greatest scientific scandal of all time collapses at an accelerating rate, the only problem is how to prevent this lemming-like behaviour ever happening again in the name of science.
Future generations will not believe that their 21st century ancestors could have been so stupid!
A whole party just for Classical Liberals.
That’s what we need.
But wait, we were heading into an ice age, then we poured tons & tons of CO2 into the air and we staved off the ice and cold. We have been reducing CO2 and now it is cooling off. We are fixing it.
In fact we ought to thank geert wilders whose party already debunked the agw-scare 2 years ago and got voter-support . Now the competition , the VVD , is putting the issue in a wider context , which will waken up more minds up to now controlled by the dutch msm .
You can place a large bet on the spin the MSM will put on this: “This is sheer populism – like Geert Wilders this guy has seen that there is an audience of [idiots] dummies out there (still dumb enough not to believe in AGW) and he goes fishing for their votes”. It worked with Wilders – at least in the eyes of the German public, he is perceived as some kind of raving fascist, not as a true democrat who is absolutely fed up with the liberal pieties concerning multiculturalism and Islam. If it works against René Leegte, too, expect the whole party to appear tainted by association – at least as long as the AGW scam is still peddled by the MSM.
I live in The Netherlands and I speak Dutch, which is the common language in this country. Just to let anybody know we are not Denmark or Deutschland.
I also have a thing with science, search for truth etc, the old fashioned things.
Anyhow, I too read this news today and I applaud it on one side; but on the other side the government we have comprises a minority of liberals and christians that can only maintain their majority by support of the national populist party. That is the Geert Wilders-party, the so called Partij voor de Vrijheid, Party for Freedom. These are populist opportunists, our version of xenophobic rednecks, bums with criminal records in part; people I would not want to be associated with. Not ever.
A tear to my eye therefore that my beloved climate realism is taken hostage, in a way, by those that call themselves liberal but obviously are also just opportunists that are willing to sacrifice anything for the prospect of profit and political influence.
“Alexander K says:
June 28, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Interesting to see the blinkers being torn away!
In New Zealand we recognised that the settlers from Holland after WWII were realistic, pragmatic and hard-working people; many did very well from their hard work and their good business sense”
Agreed.
As a fellow NZer with a number of Dutch NZ friends. They’re often the ones likely to call a ‘spade a spade’ and don’t have time for any of this AGW/CC Nonsense either!
A whole party just for Classical Liberals.
That’s what we need.
Are there any parties like this in Europe?
peterhodges says:
>>A whole party just for Classical Liberals. That’s what we need.<<
Amen, brother.
René Leegte doesn’t know what climate science is about when saying climate scientists solemly focus on CO2 when trying to explain climate change. Quite embarassing.
Hans Labohm, the author of this article on the other hand has been demasked manipulating the truth by several Dutch authors.
In English :
http://jules-klimaat.blogspot.com/2009/03/labohm-again-sigh.html
In Dutch :
http://weblogs.nos.nl/klimaat/2009/11/17/goochelen-met-hans-labohm/ Goochelen Met Hans Labohm
http://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2009/11/20/gerrit-hiemstra-maakt-korte-metten-met-hans-labohm/ Gerrit Hiemstra maakt korte metten met Hans Labohm
http://transitiontowns.nl/archief/3748 Klimatscepticus neemt loopje met de waarheid
http://sargasso.nl/archief/2009/04/22/statistische-strohalmen/ Statistische strohalmen
Hans Labohm probably is the last Dutchman on earth to cite on a website interested in the truth.
Seems like 10 years is a good number for harbingers of doom.
Ted Danson The “seas will be unhabital in 10 years”,
“The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now. The regions destined to feel its impact are the great wheat-producing lands of Canada and the U.S.S.R. in the North, along with a number of marginally self-sufficient tropical areas – parts of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indochina and Indonesia – where the growing season is dependent upon the rains brought by the monsoon.”
More from http://www.richardabarrett.com/?p=195
1990 Actress Meryl Streep ”By the year 2000–that’s less than ten years away–earth’s climate will be warmer than it’s been in over 100,000 years. If we don’t do something, there’ll be enormous calamities in a very short time.”
January 1970 Life Magazine ”Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support …the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half….”
July 9, 1971, Washington Post “In the next 50 years fine dust that humans discharge into the atmosphere by burning fossil fuel will screen out so much of the sun’s rays that the Earth’s average temperature could fall by six degrees. Sustained emissions over five to ten years, could be sufficient to trigger an ice age.”
June 30, 1989, Associated Press U.N. OFFICIAL PREDICTS DISASTER, SAYS GREENHOUSE EFFECT COULD WIPE SOME NATIONS OFF MAP–entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels if global warming is not reversed by the year 2000. Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of “eco-refugees,” threatening political chaos, said Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program. He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect.
1991 Edward Goldsmith, 5000 Days to Save the Planet ”By 2000, British and American oil will have diminished to a trickle….Ozone depletion and global warming threaten food shortages, but the wealthy North will enjoy a temporary reprieve by buying up the produce of the South. Unrest among the hungry and the ensuing political instability, will be contained by the North’s greater military might. A bleak future indeed, but an inevitable one unless we change the way we live….At present rates of exploitation there may be no rainforest left in 10 years. If measures are not taken immediately, the greenhouse effect may be unstoppable in 12 to 15 years.”
April 22, 1990 ABC, The Miracle Planet “I think we’re in trouble. When you realize how little time we have left–we are now given not 10 years to save the rainforests, but in many cases five years. Madagascar will largely be gone in five years unless something happens. And nothing is happening.”
March 29, 2001, CNN ”In ten years time, most of the low-lying atolls surrounding Tuvalu’s nine islands in the South Pacific Ocean will be submerged under water as global warming rises sea levels.” [Next year we’ll know if this extremely unlikely prediction comes true.]
on and on and on………kinda rolls off the tongue, that ten years.
To badly paraphrase Winston Churchill;
This is not the end.
But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
And now we can see the beginning of the end.
@ Aaron Stonebeat, June 28, 2011 at 3:25 pm
In dutch media, I would not have reacted to Aaron’s reply: dutch readers will know how to interpret Aaron’s words. But this is an international blog with many readers who are not versed in dutch politics, so I thought I should add my view.
Let me start with stating that Aaron’s description of the PVV is the usual left wing paper description for the right wing party, so I would advice everyone to assume the usual hyperbole when reading it.
But it’s worth noting that it’s more socially acceptable to state Aaron’s description than to admit one has voted for the PVV. So the fact that the PVV was the only party to be officially skeptic, made it easy to set it away as a lunatic view, as the only party to support it was “that lunatic party.” A classic fallacy (shoot the messenger), but very often used.
And yes, VVD and PVV are competing over voters, but there are lot of areas where they differ and this is just a minor one. Some current major ones are that they differ on their views on sending money to Greece, and on increasing the retirement age.
It would have been easy for the VVD to stay quiet on CAGW. Just mumble something about ‘high costs’, ‘don’t harm our industry’, and ‘let’s wait for the international approach’, and skip to the next topic. That’s the approach of the last years and it would have worked for many years to come.
So I think Hans Labohm is right: this is a landmark. It was an unforced turn and thus is genuine.
With about 35% of the dutch parliament officially skeptic, the skeptical arguments will be heard in parliament, and MSM will be forced to report on it.
It will be interesting times for dutch politics. As it has been for the last couple of years.
@antoon DV, June 28, 2011 at 4:27 pm:
Your dismissing of Hans Labohm’s views might work on some dutch blogs, but not here.
I’m sure the WUWT readers will be able to recognize the usual ‘attack the messenger’ fallacy, and the arguments presented in the linked articles are just rehashing what has repeatable been said on WUWT.
Meanwhile, in Italy, there is grumbling among the poor, because pasta prices are rising, because local farmers make better money growing “biofuels.” (Subsidized?)
Someone needs to tap the wealthy intellectuals on the shoulder, and clear their throat a time or two. The rabble are getting restless, and don’t believe wealthy intellectuals care about them the slightest bit.
Do they? Or do they see the rabble as excess population to be gotten rid of?
Look’s like the Dutch parliament needs an a$$hole transplant. Donor material to be provided by the White House!
@Sjoerd:
Thanks for putting the remarks of “Aaron Stonebeat” and “antoon DV” into perspective.
I am as Dutch as one can be: believer in democracy, justice and defender/user of the right to free speech for everyone.
Does “Aaron Stonebeat” knows about the roots of the Green Party (“GroenLinks” in Dutch)?
It’s a merger of some small parties, among them the Communist Party and the Pacifists Party, former admirers of Ulrich regime in East Germany.
The merger took place after the end of the bloody experiment on humans, called marxism.
That’s what I would call a “populist opportunistic” party.
Good stuff, nice list at the link.
And another one bites the dust (exactly 3 months ago).
The CAGW doomsayers are so bad that they cannot even be compared to a stopped clock. They are never right.
TomB says: June 28, 2011 at 9:10 am
“First Geert Wilders, now René Leegte – there’s something strange going on in the state of Denmark. Perhaps this wave of sanity and common sense will spread.”
This is happening in Holland (or The Netherlands).
Mr. Leegte has said more skeptical things already. I really hope he can achieve something.
TomB says: First Geert Wilders, now René Leegte – there’s something strange going on in the state of Denmark. Perhaps this wave of sanity and common sense will spread.
We live in eternal hope…… now who can we disband down under? apart from the Brown Gillard Government?
Ah yes now I remember Our Princess Mary is up there…. maybe that is where the sainity springs from?
One can’t talk about climate science in Holland without mentioning Henk Tennekes (former director of research at the Royal Dutch Meteorological Institute) and author of a First course in turbulence http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=4658)
http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/my-position-on-climate-change-by-hendrik-tennekes/
http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/when-will-they-ever-learn-by-hendrik-tennekes/
http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/seamless-prediction-systems-by-hendrik-tennekes/
http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/henk-tennekes-resigns-from-dutch-academy/
The desmogblog reference for Tennekes says that he hasn’t published research in peer-review since 1990. However he has re-edited one of his books for MIT press in 2009 http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11941
The remainder of the desmogblog reference is a rather desperate attempt to smear him by saying that papers he has written have appeared on websites organized by people who know people who have been paid by tobacco and/or oil companies!
http://www.desmogblog.com/hendrik-tennekes
The problem is that we now have a science problem that has become a political problem. Since right wing parties have declared that AGW is a lie, left wing parties are doomed to continue to support it, not just now but for all time. Thus AGW will become baked in the left-wing cake just as the failed doctrines of Marxism are.
Democracies all over the world desparately need an opposition to right-wing politics that isn’t simply a collection of failed left-wing theories.
The correct (sorry Hans, but for clarity) translation of the title is: “Renee Leegte (VVD) puts the cat among the pigeons”. Otherwise a fine translation.
If the science is inconvenient, we should turn to the Inquisition for guidance.
@richard:
Henk Tennekens was right in at least one major issue: you can’t predict weather any better with more computing power.
The 3-day forecasts are just as good as 30 years ago, even now hidden in the current 10-day forecasts.
One can’t model something one doesn’t understand.
And don’t shoot the messenger.
Oh Antoon
The ice core graphs you link to show that C02 and temperature do correlate, but that C02 lags temperature by several hundred years during the warming periods. Now it is a basic law of physics that event A cannot be the cause of event B, if A occurs after B. Didn’t you know this already?
Richard, never go to a dentist with a toothache: he knows those dirty little things about teeth called facts 🙂
Never go to a climatologist to learn something about climate and climate change. Same reason: dirty little things called facts. Dirty big pool called reality.
So sure, ask ole Tennekes!
This is an embarrassment to the Dutch politics. A politician who wants to abolish a scientific institute because he doesn’t like the scientific conclusions is entirely antithetical to independent research.
People who value independent research should be appalled by this episode.
My commentary in Dutch:
http://klimaatverandering.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/vvd-kamerlid-leegte-oneens-met-klimaatwetenschap-dus-wil-knmi-afschaffen/
Well, perhaps you could prevail upon Geert Wilders to give up on his homeland (does Europe really have any chance at this point?) and move over here to the USA. After some time we could elect him to any office (except for prez of course) and his talents would no longer be wasted on those that appear to fear xenophobia more than cultural death by attrition.
Rednecks are not considered evil here as they thrive in the warmer climate from AGW, and criminal records can be a Résumé enhancer, particularly in Chicago. So no worries on either front!
But seriously, if enough of you can’t stand him, just send him our way.
/NoSarc
Problem is Bart what are the scientific conclusions? Can you find out any mistakes in the statements he quoted form Climate Scientists way back in 1975 and what they are saying today? Where is the science there?
Climate scientists have been lax with the scientific method and have been crying wolf for too long for anyone to take them seriously. And what conclusions? Model runs are not conclusions. And model runs are not data.
Care to point out the empirical evidence and conclusions for AGW?
pat said at June 28, 2011 at 9:09 am:
“Bureaucrats and academics have corrupted science everywhere. It is all about money and control of other peoples lives.”
I would submit that the ‘death’ of science is the over-taking of the various policy organs by lawyers. The original US EPA was staffed by scientists and engineers, but then the lawyers invaded to craft their pernicious Rules and Regulations with little valid background.
Bart Verheggen wrote:
“This is an embarrassment to the Dutch politics.
..”
No, it’s just embarrassing for the GreenLeft and related scientists.
@ gordon, you say it yourself: they correlate…
Well, I may not fit the “xenophobic” part but the rest might describe me to one degree or another. I don’t find that description quite as disparaging as you do. So my support for Geert Wilders isn’t really swayed by your diatribe. I have a lot of respect for someone that risks his very life in defense of freedom. Nice try though.
Can somebody here give me an address of a Dutch sceptic climatic site?
http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/henrys-pool-table-on-global-warming
@HenryP:
http://www.climategate.nl
Amen my brother Redneck! Reminds me of an old joke.
Guys car gets a flat in front of an insane asylum. He goes to change the flat but loses all of his lug nuts. Now he’s trapped.
From the fence he hears a voice. “Hey! Just take one lug nut from each of the other wheels. That’ll hold the spare on long enough to get to a service station.”
He scratches his head and does as suggested. When done, he turns to talk to the guy at the fence and says, “That was a great idea. But I thought you were crazy.”
The asylum inmate replies, “I may be crazy, but I’m not stupid.”
Too many people equate “Redneck” to “Stupid”.
BIG MISTAKE.
@HenryP:
http://www.klimaatfraude.info
Henry P,
See also:
http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/users/hans-labohm/track
This post needs to be corrected. Mr. Leegte has proposed to privatise the institute, not to abolish it. Now it is part of a ministery and the scientists who work there cannot communicate freely with the public. This post has fallen into a trap by taking over deformations of the proposal of mr. Leegte, deformations ment to damage him. See also the site of Marcel Crok, where he explains the problem.
Look Antoon, most people who comment on this site did not come down in the last shower, but to beat an already beaten track, correlation does not imply causation but it may do if other conditions are met.
Imagine a conversation between two of the last surviving Neanderthals living near the Sierra Nevada in Southern Spain some 15000 years ago.
Ug: I say Grru; have you noticed that our mountain icecap has almost disappeared?
Grru; Yes indeed; do you know why?
Ug; Yes of course, the science is settled. The cause is the increase in CO2 levels that will occur in 800 years time.
Regarding a viable approach to energy production as far as being a more worthy topic for research and expenditure as opposed to focusing on CO2, I’ve just run into this interesting article:
http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/suppressed-technology/first-commercially-available-cold-fusionenergy-catalyzer-fast-facts.html
Gordon,
I provided some links where someone’s stating there’s no correlation AT ALL.
You agree with me there is a correlation, don’t you ?
Yes Antoon; there is correlation, but only in the periods following deglaciation and because of the lag it is likely that the increase in CO2 is the result of ocean out-gassing, ie a consquence rather than a cause of warming. Over longer timescales, many tens of millions of years, there is no correlation at all.