Wikileaks first climate cables
By Ecotretas
Reading through the few Wikileaks cables related to climate, the tip of the iceberg becomes visible. The most interesting seems to involve the usual pressures related to top level nominations: in this case, the nomination for the IPCC Group II organization comes to light. The original cable is still not known, but it is said to state that Christopher Field had no opposition; the other proposed position for co-chair, Mostafa Jafari, an Iran scientist, was not acceptable, although a qualified scientist. The cable apparently states that Rajendra Pachauri, head of the IPCC, promised background collaboration, and non-identification of the US pressures. The Austrian delegate, which lead the selection process, also agreed on the veto on Jafari.
In other cables, we can see the unreal demands being made by some countries in the World. The developed countries, pressured by alarmists, are “falling all over itself to browbeat them into taking money to go along with a plan to give them more money“. But this is starting to change: “The Danes said they are “fed up”” because the reasons behind the show are no longer climate: “Gisela Ulloa, a member of Bolivian delegations to earlier COP meetings told us the GOB’s position is aimed at creating an alternative development model consistent with Morales’s anti-capitalist philosophy.”
Another profound cable relates to Saudi Arabia. One only has to read the following, to understand what is really happening (bold is my responsibility):
Is Al-Naimi the Problem?
————————
9. (S) Minister Al-Naimi has consistently been rational and practical in talking with western delegations about climate change, noting that Saudi Arabia had to address its development concerns, but conceding that the world needs to work together to address climate change. These reassuring statements stand in sharp contrast to Al-Sabban’s public comments, such as questioning the science behind climate change just before Copenhagen, and his often obstructionist behavior, as reported by a number of Embassies in Riyadh, during working-level negotiations. Senior Ministry of Petroleum officials have reassured us after each of Al-Sabban’s public outbursts over the last six months that he has been “tamed” and brought back onto the reservation. The frequency and number of times that Al-Sabban steps out of line, and the apparent lack of any sanction, raises questions about the real Saudi position on climate change.
And than we see “that Pope Benedict had firmly established his “green” reputation“, which “even if discreetly, is significant because the Vatican is often reluctant to appear to compromise its independence and moral authority by associating itself with particular lobbying efforts“. Religion, at it’s best.
What really strikes us is the fact that all this Copenhagen/Cancun stuff has nothing to do with the Climate, or saving the World. It’s about political positioning, money, and plain old fascism cult promotion. But as referred before, this is only the tip of the iceberg. More is to come, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re going to be answered about who is behind Climategate, or Al Gore’s Nobel nomination, or the facts behind all the IPCC mess. Stay tuned…
“Cimate Cables” ?
Good, looks like you fixed the typo right away. Don’t you hate it when the typo is right in the title line? 😉
A world-wide fraud.
Popcorn. Forgot to buy popcorn. Must go back to grocery today and buy a big bag. And Diet Coke, lots of it. Heh heh heh.
“Gisela Ulloa, a member of Bolivian delegations to earlier COP meetings told us the GOB’s position is aimed at creating an alternative development model consistent with Morales’s anti-capitalist philosophy.“
Well, duh. I thought the Greens in the West were anti-capitalist in the first place as they emerged out of the remainders of Eurocommunism and student revolts in the 70ies. So what’s the problem with an upright socialist like Morales.
Wikigate could prove to be as damaging to the cause as Climategate. In general, people do not trust anything that involves secret negotiations and backroom handshakes….
The dane link is about Bolivia.
This is the first I’ve heard of wikileaks getting into this sort of thing. I must have missed something but when did this start?
Maybe OT, but Wikileaks has been a double edged sword. It’s nice to have access to all kinds of information. But some of the items released have compromised the safety of citizens of repressive governments. Some things are better left unknown.
WikiLeaks just made the world more repressive
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/wikileaks-just-made-the-world-more-repressive/article1818157/
And this keeps giving and giving, and than it gives even more.
Indeed I will stay tuned! This is gold. I can imagine those fascists will by now be dreading each approaching Christmas for years to come, if the last one and this one are anything to go by.
And I’m loving it.
“GOB’s [Bolivia’s] position is aimed at creating an alternative development model consistent with Morales’s anti-capitalist philosophy.”
I think I deduce that “alternative development model “:
“No more World Bank, IMF, IDB, or USAID. Just give us bags of cash please, and do it fast.”
Please add a brief definitions section, so that readers can quickly be reminded of the meaning of references like GOB, COP, etc.
[Reply: There is a glossary on the mast head. It may not be completely up to date. This page has some acronyms. ~dbs, mod.]
Wikileaks are not necessarily stickyleaks…
It’s the sun, or in this case, sunlight — shone on the backroom machinations of the career Dips — that are going to change the (political) climate.
Don’t take the bait by looking past WikiFreak’s atrocities just because they present a few “good” tidbits; the Eco-cult AGW scam is being outed without any help from them.
Don’t stop with Assange. Destroy all the Wikifreak criminals and their accomplices.
The title should read ” Climate cabals” .
[snip – aspartame and Diet coke…waaaaay off topic ~mod]
It appears my first post went straight to the spam bin. Curious. Little help? Pls. and Thx.
I’m beginning to warm to Wikileaks!
These guys are going to need more than a little dutch boy. This is something that many who have followed the climate scam have been expecting.
David Davidovics – Much as I detest the Grauniad their coverage of the WikiLeaks cables is rather good. It’s not all climate stuff though, many are worth a read if only to confirm what you may or may not have suspected all along…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/the-us-embassy-cables
Don’t forget, if you are an employee of the USA government you will more than likely lose your job if you view these at work!
“What really strikes us is the fact that all this Copenhagen/Cancun stuff has nothing to do with the Climate, or saving the World. It’s about political positioning, money, and plain old fascism cult promotion.”
Diplomats deal with the political side of things. Nuclear physics does not come up a lot in arms control talks. Is your use of the word “fascism” a simple spell checker mistake or was it intended for some reason? I’m guessing the former.
My understanding is that buried in the now infamous classified cable leak, are tidbits of intelligence that are related to climate and global warming issues and the negotiations that went on behind the scenes to enable or prevent certain things from happening. Only time will tell as there is a massive data dump there to plow through and the folks interested in climate gate like issue have only just begun to dig through things.
It may even contain some smoking gun revelations about behind the scenes deals, that are now only suspected. As above stock up on the popcorn it will be an interesting holiday season as all this gets dissected (assuming wikileaks can stay online long enough for someone to capture all the relevant evidence.)
Larry
There’s something pleasingly retro about calling them “cables” – like they were all sent by telegraph. 😉
The world is FINALLY changing for the better.
And yes, popcorn is a good idea, a few beers as well.
Party like those Cancun politic “scientists”
O wait, no I think their party is ……… OVER
And the rest of us are going back to work in Jan. knowing that we still might have jobs to go to.
[d]
Can you rephrase this in English for me, so I can understand it?
KeepLeaks!
JFEW
Here is another one on one of the Dutch mirrors of Wikileaks.
http://mirror.geenstijl.nl/20101203-wikileaks/cable/2010/01/10THEHAGUE54.html
AMBASSADOR DISCUSSES CLIMATE WITH ENVIRONMENT MINISTER
Robinson says on December 4, 2010 at 11:01 am
Pachauri promised that he would collaborate behind the scenes with the US and that he would not point out to the rest of the IPCC or the world any pressures that the US would bring to bear to obtain special treatment.
Check this out:
“Over the next few years, the Mexican economy –like the rest of the worldʼs economies- will have to move onto a trajectory of low carbon-intensity growth, at the same time as implementing adaptation processes to minimize the impacts of climate change. The monetary and financial resources needed for so doing are certainly significant, and of course alternative uses for these resources do exist, including infrastructure development, a social welfare system and the education system, all of which are also essential for sustainable development.”
Page 63
http://www.cop16.mx/en/climate-change/economics-of-climate-change-in-mexico/
Translation; The ‘unprecedented’ funding that we get from the North for mitigation and adaptation will also be used by us to build our infrastructure (a form of ‘development’), educating our children, and funding our social welfare programs.
Are you f@(%!#& kidding me??? We’re going to fund their welfare and school systems? This has got to be a joke!!!
I sometimes think our government is infested with people working for the interests of foreign nations over ours. Am I nuts for thinking this?
Since the issue of climate change has been the subject of various reports by the US DoD ( and those of other countries, I imagine ) and National Defense is of particular interest to all countries on strategic and tactical levels, I have no doubt that there will be additional “cables” forthcoming that will connect several dots. It will be interesting.
Must be strange for you americans: May it be possible, that Wikileaks is not the devil or a part of Al Kaida? I think, that Wikileaks only makes informations public, that many politicians don’t like to read. The truth doesn’t look good for them, so let’s destroy Wikileaks: Take the servers away (Amazon), freeze their account for donations (Paypal/ebay).
I think we need an institution like Wikileaks (allthough I also don’t like all of their publications). Someone who doesn’t feer to publicate the truth. But I don’t need to make bussiness with Amazon, ebay and Paypal. I canceld all my accounts at these companies.
“What really strikes us is the fact that all this Copenhagen/Cancun stuff has nothing to do with the Climate, or saving the World. It’s about political positioning, money, and plain old fascism cult promotion.”
Duh.
JFEW:
Agreed.
All of this started with a leak.
And without that leak we would be heading back to the stone age into forward into the space age.
[D]
So WikiLeaks swings both ways . . . cool.
[instead of forward]
my bad,
[d]
Oslo says:
December 4, 2010 at 9:33 am
“The dane link is about Bolivia.”
And Gisela Ulloa is a Bolivian name, i know.
Thomas says:
December 4, 2010 at 11:16 am
“Must be strange for you americans: May it be possible, that Wikileaks is not the devil or a part of Al Kaida?”
Thomas, AFAIK these reports would have been released after 10 years anyway. To me it looks like a carefully planned operation to influence public opinion; putting them out in the open in a precisely planned sequence. You are being played. Take your own guess about who the puppetmaster is.
Oops. Did i just say puppetmaster? 😉
Old hat, I’m afraid. All of this stuff is known by careful observers. Wikileaks leaks more information that makes headlines, but little in the way of real substantial impact. What has releasing these cables accomplished? Nothing but a further inflation of the Assange ego. Time for him and Pfc. Manning to stand trial for espionage and treason, respectively.
Robinson says:
December 4, 2010 at 11:01 am
The cable apparently states that Rajendra Pachauri, head of the IPCC, promised background collaboration, and non-identification of the US pressures.
Can you rephrase this in English for me, so I can understand it?
—————————————————————-
It means Pachauri promised (a) to help the US behind the scenes (not in public) and (b) to not reveal US pressure tactics to which he was party.
Hope that helps.
Re: Curiousgeorge
Don’t hold your breath waiting for wikileaks to reveal something damaging to AGW. Since they control the flow of information they can withhold anything that doesn’t agree with their view of the world.
I believe this was originally posted at The Guardian, but from Gateway Pundit: Woah!… Wikileaks Documents Show Obama Administration Used Spying, Threats & Bribes to Get Support for Copenhagen Accord
Wikileaks is better than Climategate
Keep Smiling 🙂
The New York Times, et al, has been publishing leaked information for decades, always in dribs and drabs, usually to fit an agenda. Now XXX comes out with a firehose of information, first Iraq, then Afganastan, with no great hue & cry from the left. Now the bodies are being pulled from the dark holes in Foggy Bottom. Let the gnashing of teeth commence.
don’t fear “the one” will just have his epa declare co2 a poison and regulate&tax us to death. NOT THE HOPE & CHANGE YA VOTED FOR????
I think the reference to Pachauri is significant, he appears to have been serving US interests all along, the rest is just a front. He was appointed for this very purpose, so he is still “on song”.
I know this is a tangent, but it must be remembered that Wikileaks has not released all of the information that they have. They are collaborating with a handful of media outlets to selectively release information. In other words, they are holding some information back. If the politics of the major news outlets don’t feel that it’s newsworthy then it may not get released. We may only get to see the records most damaging to the US and not those that may damage the Climate Industrial Complex.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20101203/D9JSE2EG0.html
Evidently Julian Assange has a death wish.
The US, having the wherewithal to seize the domains of websites associated with claimed copyright pirates, does nothing when “National Security” is at stake.
UK lauds his activity with regards to human rights violations, yet has egg on it’s face when they are the subject of the disclosure.
Urinating in the general direction of Russia, a country known for it’s interesting Polonium-210 food additives, is not generally considered a really good idea. Yet Julian Assange has whipped it out and given a good squirt.
Now he’s messing around with Global Warming people. A group not known for rational behavior and logic.
Best-o-luck Julian.
Yer gonna need it.
PayPal just cut off WikiLeaks funding line thru them – http://apnews.myway.com/article/20101204/D9JT6MHO0.html
Dec 4, 11:24 AM (ET)
By JUERGEN BAETZ
BERLIN (AP) – The online payment service provider PayPal has cut off the account used by WikiLeaks to collect donations, serving another blow to the organization just as it was struggling to keep its website accessible after an American company stopped directing traffic to it.
PayPal said in a blog posting that the move was prompted by a violation of its policy, “which states that our payment service cannot be used for any activities that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity.”
Con’td at link.
Is it paranoia to believe that they are out to get everyone?
Paypal isn’t the only way to make donations to Wikileaks. But it is annoying to see them cut Wikileaks off like that. I hope they fully processed my donation first.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/dec/03/wikileaks-us-manipulated-climate-accord
So the other day, Wikileaks for taking credit for Climate Gate (see the youtube video), but now it’s saying that USA is the villian, wish it would make up its mind?
In response to Ecotretas’ last paragraph, I put forward this gem (posted before – apologies if you have already seen it):-
“The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”
– Club of Rome,
premier environmental think-tank,
consultants to the United Nations
I am not sure of the date of this illuminating nugget, but I believe it to be prior to Copenhagen.
BTW, one thing I would be interested in, if these oligarchs have their way with ruling the world, along with the decimation of population, is who is going to maintain their power stations, or till their fields?
I don’t think I like this guy Assange a bit, but, it seems some good things maybe coming out of the chaos. It’s an ill wind that blows nobody any good. And anyway, are politicians any more saintly than this guy?
As some wit said many years ago: The less we know about how laws and sausages are made, the better we sleep at night.
So, next thing, Assange may be telling us how sausages are made. He can do that while in jail I suppose.
Here I thought there were no more “-gates” in our lexicon. And up comes climatecablegate.
kramer says:
I sometimes think our government is infested with people working for the interests of foreign nations over ours. Am I nuts for thinking this?
Until last year, yes. As of now, not so much …. 😉
There is another salient point in this post, and that is the subjugation of the world press to publish freely. This is not now possible, especially with regard to almost anything to do with climate, unless it agrees with man-made climate warming.
Anyone who has been, or is to embark on writing a book on the the falsehoods of so-called AGW (or whatever it’s called nowadays) will not find an easy passage for publication.
Some powerful people are behind this torrid state of affairs, and one of that bunch of gangsters is probably the UNO, closely followed by Greenpeace, the WWF and the EU non-elected bureaucrats, to name but a few like-minded sychophants.
To me this whole Wikileaks episode is a mixed bag–I think diplomacy should be honest but then that’s a contradiction in terms, unfortunately. I also have two sons and a son-in-law in the military, so anything that would make it more dangerous for them makes me angry. However, if this whole Wilileaks fiasco makes it more difficult to establish world governance, I’m cheering it on. Certainly, anything that corroborates the fiendish behavior exposed in the Climategate emails also gets my support!
MikeA says:
December 4, 2010 at 12:25 pm
‘I think the reference to Pachauri is significant, he appears to have been serving US interests all along, the rest is just a front. He was appointed for this very purpose, so he is still “on song”.’
What will the Greens do when they learn that their heroes have been funded by the CIA or some other government agency?
I’m of two minds on WikiLeaks, one mind remembers reading the cable dispatches – yes they were cable (1970-1977) – in Zurich at the Union Bank of Switzerland Cafe (open to the public). Reuters, Depeche France, Neue Zuericher Zeitung, Financial Times, AP, UPI, etc. and seeing things never appearing in any newspaper I could read. Sometimes things diametrically opposed to what ultimately appeared in the international press, which prompted a growing sense of paranoia. Things weren’t as I was told they were. Having grown up in Arizona, and having been deeply involved with AZ politics starting in 1959, I was a stanch conservative – at least in the beginning. This mind, the shocked one, thinks that WikiLeaks is doing the world a service.
The other mind, it cringes when it sees the intelligence side and the sort of hidden, but not well enough hidden sources.
In the 1970’s a CIA Agent by the name of Welsh was assassinated in Athens. I was living in Zurich had they had more “unsolved” murders of foreign nationals than one would wish. So when someone “jokingly” introduced me as the “local American CIA Agent” at a party, I really got a shock. It was a joke, but the feeling of being a possible target was uncomfortable to say the least. So this mind wants the dangerous leaks stopped.
All in all, more transparency keeps Mother/Father State at bay. I forget who said it, but the quote was something like this, “A State/Military Secret is only secret in it’s own country.” We would do well to remember this.
Mods, please change “than” to “then” in this bit:
And than we see “that Pope Benedict had firmly established his “green” reputation“,
EXCELLENT information, I had wondered if the leaked cables held pearls of wisdom about climate politics! Thanks for posting!
Please change “Zurich had” to “Zurich and” in the third paragraph.
[Sorry, Matt, I can’t find “Aspen” anywhere in the article. ~dbs.]
“Conversi immediately expressed the Holy See’s genuine desire to see the Copenhagen process move forward.”
—
This is not surprising to those familiar with the Pope’s encyclical of 2009, “Caritas in Veritate”. In section 50 the Pope writes, “…the protection of the environment, of resources and of the climate obliges all international leaders to act jointly…”. In section 67 he says “…there is urgent need of a true world political authority”. Among other things, this world authority must be given the power “to guarantee the protection of the environment”, bring about “disarmament”, “food security” and “regulate migration”. In section 35 he calls for “distributive justice and social justice for the market economy”. And in section 42 he calls for the “large-scale redistribution of wealth on a world-wide scale”. These things all fit in nicely with the goals expressed at Copenhagen. Pope Benedict’s encyclical can be found here: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html
It’s not what is IN Wikileaks we need to focus on, it’s what is NOT in them that’s more important.
IMHO, I agree with those who see it as stage-managed and filtered. I really wouldn’t want to be Assange. Someone has stolen his soul.
On the same general WikiLeaks subject….
“WikiLeaks has lost a major source of revenue after the online payment service provider PayPal cut off its account used to collect donations, saying the website is engaged in illegal activity.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101204/ap_on_hi_te/wikileaks
It’s going to take a while to get all the fraud out on the table.
Does anybody else find it unseemly the way our president and America has behaved pushing what is now known to be a total lie?
It is reported : Because of death threats Julian Assange never sleeps in the same place two days in a row and is constantly on the move from one hiding place to another.
Jenn Oates says:
Popcorn. Forgot to buy popcorn. Must go back to grocery today and buy a big bag. And Diet Coke, lots of it. Heh heh heh.
that is why I came up with aspartame promoted by the same group of people that promote global warming. It is all about controling the people. One why is dumbing down the population so you can tell them every lie like man made global warming. That´s why we need Wikileaks to wake up the people before it´s too late.
robertvdl says:
December 4, 2010 at 2:40 pm
“It is all about controling the people. One why is dumbing down the population […]”
I nearly spilled my Coke Zero over that.
Now maybe i’m dumb but i think i would have noticed if my preferred soft drink would make me believe, say, GISS temperature records… Or does espresso neutralize the effect?
CRS, Dr.P.H. says on December 4, 2010 at 1:55 pm
sic transit gloria? Thusly does the Catholic Church jump the shark.
The scary thing about this is how it appear that virtually all governments world wide are on board with AGW – all the struggling and pushback appears to be over who gets how much, rather than if AGW is even real or not. That is very disconcerting to me. In the USA, pre-Obama, that didn’t seem to be the case and our Congress kept things in check. Now Obama is strongly on board, and doing everything he can to go around Congress and force this on us, as are all too many states.
Wikileaks cabelgate is, no question, espionage and treason (unless those presupposing our gov. actually had a hand in it are right, but I’m doubtful to say the least). To have one nation’s classified internal diplomatic correspondence released publicly while every other nation’s isn’t, is a real travesty and almost certainly bad all the way around. That said, since the information has been released and cat can’t be stuffed back in the bag, I at least hope some good come out of it all.
To me, that would certainly include having the light shown strongly on behind the scenes wheeling and dealing wrt AGW, climate, etc. and even more so any fraud that may be outed too, a la climategate. I very much hope something along these lines comes to light showing major government disbelief in AGW, CAGW, the science involved, IPCC results, and so on.
Meanwhile, I have to say I’m gobsmacked at the very idea that so much widely diverse classified information, albeit mostly low level stuff, could possibly be available to a lowly military person while overseas no less. Makes me want to plan to trip to visit him in jail sometime in the future, just to see if he’s really there or out somewhere under a witness protection type of relocation. Of course, one would never know if some poor smuck was sitting in jail having been set up, except he’s apparently crowing over his success so that’s not too likely. So maybe we’d have to check the financial status of all of his relative to see if some became suddenly inexplicably very wealthy. The whole thing is mindboggling to say the least.
John Cooper says:
December 4, 2010 at 11:55 am
I believe this was originally posted at The Guardian, but from Gateway Pundit: Woah!… Wikileaks Documents Show Obama Administration Used Spying, Threats & Bribes to Get Support for Copenhagen Accord
===========================================================
No wonder the great community organizer was so full of himself when he first arrived…
…He really did think he had it in the bag
“An ambassador is a man of virtue sent to lie abroad for his country; a news-writer is a man without virtue who lies at home for himself”
Sir Henry Wotton
In this wilileaks business we have both definitions active.
and one from Wotton which applies very much to us here:
“Tell the truth, and so puzzle and confound your adversaries”
And what is your view, Mr P Richie?
Your latter copy’n’paste is certainly approved by me, but the former may appear a little fragile.
Along with Prince Charles, the pope seems to have involved himself in this nonsense.
As for the former, he is a tad barmy, in my opinion.
The pope should know better than to involve himself in political wrangles.
Global scale fraud.
Louis says:
December 4, 2010 at 1:59 pm
I think the Pope failed to read this encyclical before signing it.
I find it interesting to see the division WikiLeaks is illuminating between “conservatives” who accept an all invasive and omniscient state and true libertarians who “challenge the cult of the omnipotent state” .
Video killed the Radio Star ; Hopefully the Web will neuter the arrogant club-wielding centralized state .
I believe a traditional “conservative”, Bob, is one who wants and works toward limited government, limited taxation, and limited intrusion into our personal lives. A traditional “conservative” believes in emphasis on the individual, limited local government, and the pursuit of happiness for all in peace. Prosperity will be the end result.
The scoundrels who leaked this information, on the other hand, are just that–scoundrels of the lowest order; the soundrels they have exposed are equally described.
I’d say none of them can be defined as traditional “conservatives”.
Thomas says:
December 4, 2010 at 11:16 am
Must be strange for you americans: May it be possible, that Wikileaks is not the devil or a part of Al Kaida? I think, that Wikileaks only makes informations public, that many politicians don’t like to read.
———————————————————-
You’re just exchanging the governments’ censorship for the censorship of outfits like Wiki-Leak’s, the NYT’s, and Guardian. We don’t know how much information these organizations are holding back. They will no doubt hold back whatever it deems that the public “can’t handle” i.e. info that may lead the public to not think the way that they don’t want them to. You may trust the NYT’s and WikiLeaks.
There is also the matter of legitimate state secrets and protecting people’s lives that stuck their necks out for the USA in confidence. You may not care about those people’s well being.
Rocky Road: a typical liberal vs conservative discussion:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZrqdZFFb5c&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3]
“Religion at it’s best” = “Religion at it is best”. Huh?
I understand the ISP that hosted Wikileaks pulled the site. Within hours however, other ISP’s came to the rescue and hosted the site. I also understand the creator has gone in to hiding with threats of death. He’s also said, I believe, that there are “…100 encrypted copies…” (Of the databse I assume, I cought the tail end of a newscast) and “…if anything should happen they would be released in part…” (Or in full?).
Could be good, could be bad but it is clear, as each day passes, more and more people are discovering AGW for what it is.
Smokey says:
December 4, 2010 at 5:10 pm
You’re right-that’s the ultimate in hypocricy–no wonder the liberals can barely stand “average American citizens” as Rangel likes to say. (Remends me of Ms. Sutton on “The Wind at My Back”.) The liberals are so myopic they might just as well be wearing black glasses.
Ron Paul
Wikileaks- In a free society, we are supposed to know the truth.
In a society where truth becomes treason, we are in big trouble.
To Rational Debate:
You stated: “In the USA, pre-Obama, that didn’t seem to be the case and our Congress kept things in check. Now Obama is strongly on board, and doing everything he can to go around Congress and force this on us, as are all too many states.”
Where were you? In 2008, McCain had stated he believed in global warming and the so-called ‘cap and trade’ bill. Senator Imhofe of OK was fighting an increasingly lonely battle and being branded as a kook. Starting in 2007, the Lieberman-Warner bill was pushed in the Senate–characterized as “the toughest climate change legislation to make it to the Senate floor”. That bill failed, but then Nancy Pelosi force-marches the Waxman-Markey bill through the House in 2009. Eventually the Senate managed to kill it, but with 54 Senators voting for it.
This is a far cry indeed from when the Senate voted 95-0 in 1997 against ratifying the Kyoto protocol.
carlo says:
December 4, 2010 at 7:21 pm
I have a son that serves on a nuclear sub–were you to tell the enemy the location of that boat so it could be destroyed, you would indeed be guilty of treason. And murder.
Kapiche?
So much for your “truth telling”…
There is a good percentage of people on WUWT who can work this out..
“..stage-managed and filtered.”
“Global scale fraud.”
“To me it looks like a carefully planned operation to influence public opinion; putting them out in the open in a precisely planned sequence. You are being played. Take your own guess about who the puppetmaster is.”
“A world-wide fraud.”
“Don’t hold your breath waiting for wikileaks to reveal something damaging to AGW. Since they control the flow of information they can withhold anything that doesn’t agree with their view of the world.”
Good advice!
Pay no attention to wikileaks.
Its a scam!
They will only use it discredit CLIMATEGATE.. and threaten or scare any other potential whistleblower.
Julian Assange, a modern hero or info terrorist?
The system of world governance has evolved into a secretive corrupt federation of like minded groups, determined to subvert democratic principles and create a structure you might call the NWO. A common purpose binds the key players who need the shelter of secrecy in which to work, the emails have shed a little light on this murky world to which we are neither welcome or needed.
There has been a concerted effort to separate the ruled from the ruler and the democratic principles of accountability from governance while the lower orders are increasingly expected to obey and pay. Secrets breed secrets and secrecy breeds a state of affairs that we should all be very concerned about, our leaders have taken the art of secret back door deals in sealed off rooms too far, they have fallen for the age old traps and made the moral mistakes of governing classes throughout history. This political class decided that fast secret back door dealing bypassed the open and slow democratic process and allowed them freedom to decide and enact policy across borders very quickly. Once democratic principles are subverted/set aside it can only ever lead to one conclusion, corruption and dictatorship and the separation of the people from their government.
The political class have to realise that democratic principles cannot be subverted without dire consequences, free and open and honest dealings are slow and often difficult but the results they bring are rock solid whereas the secret stitch up private back room deals are often built on shifting sands. There are no easy short cut methods in true open honest democracies yet the temptation to try and find these lazy man options always persist in the minds of the political classes.
The lesson is that slow and steady and open democratic principles are the only sure way to deal with the problems we face today, the sooner the political classes acknowledge their mistake and commit to these principles the quicker we will be able to move on and prosper. There is a passage in the Bible that describes the issue perfectly but I cannot remember it, can anyone help?
Perhaps the US should keep their state secrets wherever Obama hides his college papers.
I’ve always wondered if there is any politician who wants any sort of real outcome to these talks. It strikes me the talks process itself that has value, and I don’t just mean the gravytrain.
Politicians running moribund western economies with few-to-no ideas about how to move society forward can gain the moral authority of concern for the future without having to make any hard decisions like screwing peoples standards of living. Meanwhile they have the added advantage of frigthening the crap out of their populus.
These talks will continue on and on until they stop playing this legitimising role.
Cassandra King says: December 4, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Julian Assange, a modern hero or info terrorist?
The lesson is that slow and steady and open democratic principles are the only sure way to deal with the problems we face today, the sooner the political classes acknowledge their mistake and commit to these principles the quicker we will be able to move on and prosper
——————————————————————————–
Cassandra King. I agree with the thrust of what you have put your finger on here. My concern is that the politicians have been led (misled?) by the multi nationals who are the real purveyors of power. My main concern is that the ordinary folk who are being systematically screwed by all this may not have the ability to resist until much more damage is done. Does this have to lead to a bloodbath?
Douglas
Typo: “And than we see”.
“There is also the matter of legitimate state secrets and protecting people’s lives that stuck their necks out for the USA in confidence. You may not care about those people’s well being.”
If diplomats can’t stand the heat from the light shone on them, they should stay out of diplomacy.
Don’t forget that Wikileaks is not doing this on their own – the left wing press is colluding with them and is providing most of the manpower in sifting through the mass of leaked information before choosing what to publish.
You should, therefore, assume that there is an inevitable bias in the information published.
A little something for those looking to clear out their stomachs:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11912566
Doug questions Cassandra King “I agree with the thrust of what you have put your finger on here. My concern is that the politicians have been led (misled?) by the multi nationals who are the real purveyors of power. ”
I worked for decades at high levels in multinationals. I saw no significant domineering behaviour. Instead, I was involved in a constant battle to curb political excesses and so preserve the freedoms of the people.
Doug, can you quote any evidence that you have that multinationals are the real purveyors of power? They are the real providers of provisions, but that’s about as accusatory as I would go. Let’s hear examples.
Wikileaks about poor soldiering in Afghanistan by British soldiers have been shown to be false since today it is reported that in Sangin province, where the Taliban ruled, there are now many schools with qualified teachers, bazaars running enthusiastically and farmers working in their fields without fear where with Taliban rule none of this happened. This is down to the British Soldier who is now free from much political input and runs things as they should be. Areas where Americans patrolled in numbers of 100 strong are now patrolled by 3Para in units of 10 using their tried and tested methods which enable them to repel and suppress and ambush. The Taliban are now nowhere to be seen and locals talk to the troops who in turn give help and medical support. May this continue as the way for Afghanistan to go and troops return home.
The problem with any leaks is that invariably they are so out of date as to be useless.
peter fimmel says:
If diplomats can’t stand the heat from the light shone on them, they should stay out of diplomacy.
————————————————————————————–
My guess would be that diplomats do what they are told from higher authorities in the State Dept, but even if you don’t have concern for the safety of diplomats. There are a lot more lower level people potentially put at risk by leaking confidential information willy Nilly including dissidents from countries like Iran, for example..
The NYT’s about had a coniption over Valeries Plame, and this Asange charcater has gone into hiding so they’re capable of sympathy to these issues when it suits their agenda.
“I have a son that serves on a nuclear sub–were you to tell the enemy the location of that boat so it could be destroyed, you would indeed be guilty of treason. And murder. ”
What enemy? How many are getting blown out of the water? Paranoid nonsense.
Doug,
We are simply seeing the wheel turning, everything we see has been done before and there is really nothing new under the sun.
Will we learn by the mistakes of the past? Will violent upheaval be required? I and I suspect many others are seeing a huge increase in anger and frustration building, its everywhere and all pervasive, ordinary people are being frozen out of vital decisions and our voices are being ignored.
I think this situation has gone beyond the left right paradigm now, its us against them now, either they prevail or we do and we can sort out the real politics later when we have won our freedom back, we do not have politics anymore it seems but simply a ruling class determined to rule as an elitist dictatorship.
There is a good percentage of people on WUWT who can work this out..
“..stage-managed and filtered.” – rbw152
“Global scale fraud.” – John Q Public
“To me it looks like a carefully planned operation to influence public opinion; putting them out in the open in a precisely planned sequence. You are being played. Take your own guess about who the puppetmaster is.” – DirkH
“A world-wide fraud.” – pat
“Don’t hold your breath waiting for wikileaks to reveal something damaging to AGW. Since they control the flow of information they can withhold anything that doesn’t agree with their view of the world.” – TerryS
Good advice!
Pay no attention to wikileaks.
Its a scam!
They will only use it discredit CLIMATEGATE.. and threaten or scare any other potential whistleblower.
Somehow, those clever Guardian writers were able to pen that tale without once mentioning the name Obama. I did not think this story could be told without at least one mention of the name of the bossman, but they did it. Bravo.
“Garry says: December 4, 2010 at 9:42 am
“GOB’s [Bolivia’s] position is aimed at creating an alternative development model consistent with Morales’s anti-capitalist philosophy.”
I think I deduce that “alternative development model “:
“No more World Bank, IMF, IDB, or USAID. Just give us bags of cash please, and do it fast.”
———————————————————————
No just the first 4. Morales just insists on getting a fair deal and is one hell of a negotiator. From 20% of the gas revenue to 80%? So Bolivia now gets 2 billion a year instead of 300 million for their resources. I may not like his lefty politics but damn the man can cut a deal with some cutthroat business types without flinching!
Cassandra King says December 5, 2010 at 7:14 am : “I think this situation has gone beyond the left right paradigm now, its us against them now,”
I’m in complete agreement.
This concerted effort to monetize the air we breathe – and that’s the meta reason for all climate scams – has pushed the political classes completely off the rails.
No matter your opinion on the release of the cables we are getting valuable information. The most interesting cable I’ve read concerning the AGW scam is the one describing how the Copenhagen Accord(So called non-binding agreement last year) is a backdoor to get carbon trading going. This is a bombshell in my opinion. Anthony please if you get a chance post something on this. I’ll post back with the exact cable.
This is from the U.S. Embassy in Paris dated 02-17-10
(C) Borloo argued that the key to implementing the “equilibrium”
revealed at Copenhagen was an arrangement that would be voluntary but
also automatic in implementation and would include tradable emissions
quotas (with linked carbon markets), a forestry mechanism (REDD
Plus), and financing, including innovative financing and a fast start
mechanism. He commented that China would agree to such a system as
far preferable to a U.S. and EU carbon border tax or tariff
arrangement.
I fail to understand the voluntary part and automatic implementation(doublespeak) that the French diplomat prefers for the backdoor gravy train of Carbon Trading, it sure doesn’t sound like democracy to me.
De resistência-resistência EcoTretas – nice one.
I saw this written by Karl Denniger:
http://market-ticker.org/
>>>>I’m left being rather unimpressed here thus far across the board. What I’ve seen of the publicly-reported “Wikileaks” (e.g. via the Guardian, etc) is a government that does what governments do. Arguably the most-damning exchanges thus far are what appear to be bribes and extortion related to the Copenhagen climate stuff.
This is a surprise? There never has been any science related to “global warming” that was worth a damn and there still isn’t – so instead of admitting the truth, even after commented source was released proving the data was cooked the zealots turned to trying to bribe nations with “gifts” of “foreign aid” and lie about how the money was going to be moved.<<<
“Comment: Conversi’s offer to support the U.S., even if discreetly, is significant because the Vatican is often reluctant to appear to compromise its independence and moral authority by associating itself with particular lobbying efforts….“
The Vatican’s “moral authority” is already a feeble ghost of itself after the discovery of clerical sexual abuse not just in the US, Australia, Germany, Ireland, and the Philippines, but all over the world. The cover-up has been a top-down phenomenon.
A fructibus eorum cognoscetis eos.
continuing the quotation above: “…Even more important than the Vatican’s lobbying assistance, however, is the influence the Pope’s guidance can have on public opinion in countries with large Catholic majorities and beyond. End Comment.”
Now that the Vatican has publicly compromised its “independence and moral authority” by dabbling in political matters, it won’t be long before any remaining shreds of its “moral authority” fall away, along with “the Pope’s guidance.”
Sic transit gloria mundi.
Garry says:
December 5, 2010 at 10:56 am
This concerted effort to monetize the air we breathe – and that’s the meta reason for all climate scams – has pushed the political classes completely off the rails.
Kinda’ brings out the “best” in them, I’d say.
Always wonder why people undercut there own arguments with words like fascism which have extreme emotive content and in most use zero meaning. For example Facism is almost always defined as based on an exaltation of nationalism and national and/or racial identity. I doubt very seriously that was the authors meaning. The minute I see such references, as I am sure many others do, I assume I am dealing with a non rational argument and dismiss it out of hand.
cms says:
December 6, 2010 at 9:44 am
What? Like calling people climate “deniers”?
cms, Fascism is the melding of government with corporatism (now international corporatism) not nationalism, which was their cover and a very successful propaganda tool. Nationalism, however, is not what fascism is at least according to Mussolini. The writing of the philosophies of fascism and communism were financed by the same money source. Two different ways to attain the goal of totalitarianism by the corporate elite. Your dismissal might be a form of unconscious denial or willful ignorance.
jorgekafkazar says:
December 5, 2010 at 8:04 pm
My favourites are of course: “Sic biscuitus disintegratum” and “nil illegitum carborundum”.
This post was mentioned on Rush Limbaugh this morning around 11 am.
Congratulations to Anthony and Ecotretas.
Jimmy Haigh says: My favourites are of course: “Sic biscuitus disintegratum” and “nil illegitum carborundum”.
ad sulum suus
@Louis:
‘And in section 42 he {the Pope} calls for the “large-scale redistribution of wealth on a world-wide scale”. ‘
Could start with the assets of his own church then, eh?
jason says:
December 5, 2010 at 7:03 am
Referring to another post…“I have a son that serves on a nuclear sub–were you to tell the enemy the location of that boat so it could be destroyed, you would indeed be guilty of treason. And murder. ”
Jason states “What enemy? How many are getting blown out of the water? Paranoid nonsense.”
Well Jason, if you were one of the hundred or so Afgans named as cooperating with US efforts , or a member of their family, you may feel differently. The motive of the leaker desires world wide anarchy, this and putting innocent lives in danger is very serious despite the fact that some of the transparency is desireable.
(Where) can I download all these cables? I’m sure Assange et al will be silenced,whatever it takes.
The Hidden Agenda Behind WikiLeaks
http://www.infowars.com/alex-jones-webster-tarpley-the-hidden-agenda-behind-wikileaks/
The leaked documents show that the last thing the U.S. government wants anywhere is a government that is accountable to its own citizens instead of to the U.S. government.
The U.S. government’s frontal assault on freedom of information goes well beyond WikiLeaks and shutting down its host servers. In a Dec. 2 editorial, “Wave Good-bye to Internet freedom,” the Washington Times reports that Federal Communications Commission chairman Julius Genachowski has “outlined a plan to expand the federal government’s power over the Internet.”
The obvious, but unasked, question is: Why does the U.S. government fear the American people and believe that only news that is managed and spun by the government is fit to print? Is there an agenda afoot to turn citizens into subjects?
http://www.infowars.com/western-civilization-has-shed-its-values/
Wave Good-bye to a free Watts Up With That