My parents used to talk about rationing during the war with great apprehension. Clearly the nutters in and supporting Cancun are clueless as to how such a scheme would be viewed by the public. My inbox has lit up today from all around the world over this issue. Short of Climategate itself, I haven’t quite seen any other similar reaction.
Excerpts from the Telegraph: Cancun climate change summit: scientists call for rationing in developed world
Global warming is now such a serious threat to mankind that climate change experts are calling for Second World War-style rationing in rich countries to bring down carbon emissions.
…
In a series of papers published by the Royal Society, physicists and chemists from some of world’s most respected scientific institutions, including Oxford University and the Met Office, agreed that current plans to tackle global warming are not enough.
…
In one paper Professor Kevin Anderson, Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, said the only way to reduce global emissions enough, while allowing the poor nations to continue to grow, is to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.
…
Prof Anderson admitted it “would not be easy” to persuade people to reduce their consumption of goods
He said politicians should consider a rationing system similar to the one introduced during the last “time of crisis” in the 1930s and 40s.
This could mean a limit on electricity so people are forced to turn the heating down, turn off the lights and replace old electrical goods like huge fridges with more efficient models. Food that has travelled from abroad may be limited and goods that require a lot of energy to manufacture.
“The Second World War and the concept of rationing is something we need to seriously consider if we are to address the scale of the problem we face,” he said.
Full story here: Cancun climate change summit: scientists call for rationing in developed world
==============================================================
Does anyone really want to see a ration stamp like this?
For anyone that wishes to get the Royal Society’s papers referenced in the article, they are available for a limited time download here:
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1934.toc#content-block
I have a Charlie Daniels song for Prof Anderson. “Long Haired Country Boy” .
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs4y5si8DGs ]
I agree. We should start rationing scientists right away.
“…some of world’s most respected scientific institutions…”
Not any more.
“In one paper Professor Kevin Anderson, Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, said the only way to reduce global emissions enough, while allowing the poor nations to continue to grow, is to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.”
Translation — Prof. Kevin Anderson has made his money (via research paid for by the U.K. tax payers) and had his fun in the world of cheap energy and plentiful goods. But now he thinks that you and your children do not deserve the same kind of world, so he going to make certain that you suffer for no good reason but to assuage his guilt.
I wonder if they’ll shut down the computer data centers at the Met Office, NASA GISS, Los Alamos, etc. and cut the bloated climate research budgets by 50% in order to reduce their own “carbon footprints.” Nahhh…carbon footprint reduction is for the little people…
These fools know no end to their folly.
Steve, maybe just ration alarmists and pontificators of any persuasion
Not bad for a Society that has failed to empirically prove ANY warming due to CO2 has happened.
Latest discovery announced at Cancun: a new improved massive black market generator!
Fascists.
These guys are economic imbeciles, coated in a thick layer of hubris. I love how they consider rationing the “rich” countries, e.g. the more productive and innovative. They really wet their undies with the fantassy of returning to a pre-industrial era. These are the real danger to a large portion of humanity. The death toll that would ensue due to a severe activity limitation does not seem to bother them very much… They must already have established a nice cottage and a nest’s egg on an idyllic beach in Bengladesh, complete with a gardener and four servants, paid at 3.50US$ a day…
Too bad we can’t vote some scientists out of office.
“to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.
…
Prof Anderson admitted it “would not be easy””
Masterful piece of understatement.
What is his “Plan B”?
Next up: 800 calories per day; utility settings at maximum 65F in winter, minimum 82F in summer; births limited to one for every three families on pain of Cyklon B up nostrils.
How long before these 10:10 types festoon lamp-posts from Cancun to Valparaiso? As the European Parliament (sic) was asked recently, “Who the hell do you people think you are?”
I sometimes wonder if the sole purpose of some institutions is to invent new levels of incompetence, and they then expect others to achieve them. Unfortunately, they appear to have some success.
john r
A, uh, Cancun climate change summit? Why not a Minnesota climate change summit? Why not a Scotland climate change summit?
When you stay at a place like this during the conference in Cancun you can feel like WW II rationing is happening
sarc off
http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/11/climate-conferences-is-beginning-in.html#more
Cough, cough. How many Mansions and swimming pools does Gore have again?
He said politicians should consider a rationing system similar to the one introduced during the last “time of crisis” in the 1930s and 40s.
_____________________________________________________________
Labour’s 1983 Election Manifesto was widely described as “the longest suicide note in political history.”
Any political party adopting this policy would relegate that document to a very distant second.
By the way…Here’s Kevin Anderson…
And here’s the “carbon services” company he’s involved with…
Greenstone Carbon Management
“Greenstone is a specialist carbon solutions company. We work in partnership with major commercial and public sector organisations to enable them to measure, manage and mitigate their carbon emissions and obligations responsibly.”
So he and his company will be making BIG MONEY while you “decarbonize” to reduce your standard of living!
His appearance at Cancun must be part of their marketing plan…
One step closer to the real goal “One world government”. Thats REALLY what this entire global warming movement is about. It has nothing to do with climate, or weather or danger or any of that. Its all about convincing the peasants that a worldwide socialist government is the only future we should hope for. They are just using this as a means to an end.
I am sure the European Car of the Year 2010 will save us when the lights go out.
Get used to living in an Idiocracy surrounded my madmen.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/completely-mad.html
John Blake says:
November 29, 2010 at 5:40 pm
“As the European Parliament (sic) was asked recently, “Who the hell do you people think you are?””
‘Think’ and ‘European Paliament’ are not often found in the same sentence.
I would be happy to do without, say, 1000 politicians at the local, state, and federal levels. Just want to do my part. Let’s get back to 1950’s staffing levels. That should save some CO2.
Unfortunately even if the “Rich countries” stopped emitting CO2 entirely it wouldn’t make much difference one way or the other…
Unless of course you include India and China in your list of rich countries and I kind of doubt that they are.
Energy rationing – How much energy does Google use? Maybe they could start by setting an example – Google only to be available on even hours … until they are totally powered by the East Coast Windmill grid they are promoting. Just imagine the savings – computers only turned on on even hours! Plug your electric cars in on odd hours. /sarc off
An ominous experiment for Norfolk Islanders may be extended globally ‘if successful’.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_why_you_may_soon_need_a_warmists_permission_to_eat/
Must use spell checker.
Must use spell checker.
Not enough r’s in European Paliament.
On the other hand…
I say: Go for it!
The seed-capital for making A FORTUNE are just waiting to be made (can you say black market goods/bootlegging?)
It’s how old Joe Kennedy (daddy to John F. and Ted) started his fortune which continues through to this day via the Kennedy Family Trust Fund …
And nowadays, diversified trust fund at that: (Time Mag) Nation: Where the Kennedy Money Is
.
Bob Tisdale says:
“Too bad we can’t vote some scientists out of office.”
Don’t shoot the messengers. Focus on the real individuals that control your destiny and hold the seats of power.
Time is running out………………and then the conversation turns……………
………and the claims get Shriller and Shriller!!!
Maybe he doesn’t want the children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren to suffer, and in his prophetic vision of the world to come, he is fairly certain that they will.
If Western economic prosperity was tied to the politics and religions of countries that have a motivation to end the ascendancy of Western civilization as it now exists, I think citizens of the West would be motivated to take fairly strict measures to protect our prosperity and way of life. Of course, that’s just a theoretical situation.
Isn’t it?
Ok guys you first. No Gulfstreams for you!
the jet that is…
They are not going to make the mistake of visiting a cold place like Copehagen again.
Anybody for a pina colada?
Yep! definately a blackmarket oportunity here. I can almost see some of the proponents of the ration scheme already stockpiling food and fuel for release at a later date for um, lets say a 10 to 15% profit.
I’ll be down on the corner wearing a trenchcoat with a brace of rabbits, a chook and 15 watches in the lining.
These people don’t understand the importance of wasting. The Western World has been able to develop a motivated culture which led to an increase in wealth. One important element of our culture is that we produce more than we really need. This leads to waste in the best years, but most importantly, we have enough when a crop failure or anything goes wrong. The cultures who produce only what they need are known to face all kinds of problems when anything goes wrong and they don’t have the motivation to face the bigger challenges.
There is a line familiar to many: ‘War is the health of the state’. But what is one to do in an era of nuclear weapons where a major war is catastrophic to either party that engages in it? Well, we see the solution right before our eyes. Global warming (or whatever the pr of the day deems it to be)? In an era of relative peacetime why oh why oh why can’t these morons leave ordinary people alone to live thrive and survive. As was done on 11/2 let’s throw their sorry behinds out the door in 2012. H. L. Mencken stated that the practical business of politics was to menace the public with a series of hobgoblins so they’d be clamorous to be led to safety. It’s time for those ‘menacing’ snake oil salesmen to be booted out the door.
The bikinis are MUCH smaller in Cancun.
…and don’t tell me we over use the resources of the planet. Our population has plateaued because we prefer to have more than we need instead of having as many children we can feed. In the end, wasting means a lower limit of population and everybody has what they need even in bad years.
The WW-II rationing in America was accompanied by truly massive increases in production and emissions. Similarly, I’m sure the new rationing scheme would see massive shipments of coal-derived products from China and India swamping western markets.
How about we use my version of the precautionary principle? Rather than reshaping the world economy, we don’t do anything different for ten or twenty years and see how well the forecast is shown to represent the real world. If it is anything like the last twenty years then I doubt there will be anything showing a need for action (Global warming wise).
I’m not old enough to have seen any rationing but I did study history and in the US the rationing wasn’t exactly fair and equitable. And the idea that the economy can be controlled like adjusting a thermostat is absurd. If these tactics are attempted by any government(s) in the west, it will end in a tragic fashion.
For those of you not in the US this is why we insist on the right to bear arms. When you have no access to weapons you are the mercy of your masters. I don’t advocate taking up arms against the government unless the government leaves no other option. The fact that we can helps our leaders understand the limits of their intended power. Please don’t take this as my call to arms as I am only saying that in the US a rationing law for preventing climate change is very unrealistic because we simply wouldn’t accept it and can do something about it. The truth is the pathetic arms we do have could easily be overcome by use of government force but the idea still scares the politicos.
Any one here that has not or is not contacting their representatives in their government urging them not to support such craziness should do so as soon as possible. Even if you believe in CAGW it doesn’t necessarily follow that you would support this rationing. That would be giving total control of your very survival to others. The very idea that this could be brough up as an actual plan tells a lot about the planners. Chairman Mao would be smiling now.
That’s my rant go ahed tear it up,
Barry Strayer
LOL, Why should I buy an electric car? My ration coupon won’t provide me with enough electricity to heat my home AND drive my car.
This is the biggest redistribution scam the world has ever seen. If not for the climategate stooges, they might have gotten away with it.
They say ‘rationing’, but they mean ‘command economy’. With themselves as the enlightened rulers of course. And they must be compensated properly for their enlightenment, of course. Maoism by another name.
How can anyone take anything here seriously. they are meeting in a plush tropical resort, 5 star hotels, luxury everywhere you look, to discuss WWII-style rationing.
BillyV says: “Focus on the real individuals that control your destiny…”
I’m well focused on the only person who ultimately controls it.
Maybe these scientists who represent our most respected scientific institutions are jesting between themselves. You know the one – lets see who can come up with the most economically destructive idea. Hey Prof Anderson if you read this, can I play, please please!
I drove by the local high school today and the parking lot was full of cars belonging to or at least used by students.
What would happen if someone proposed that high school and college kids should hand over the keys to their cars and walk to school?
I read all the Royal Society abstracts, and skimmed most of the articles. Outside of the article on sea level change (which is at least reasonable), they are total rubbish; endless alarmism based on the assumed accuracy of IPCC and climate model projections of future warming. All assume a climate sensitivity of 3+C per doubling of CO2. Just rubbish.
I expect this is one of the last desperate gasps of alarmist climate scientists before the reality of much lower climate sensitivity crushes their wild-eyed predictions of doom.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11838567
I guess that is why they make these announcements in Mexico.
Here is my question prefaced by the statement that we are told that we have to listen to the wisdom of climate scientists on climate because they are the experts. Well I am an expert on technology and I say that climate scientists need to shut the hell up about things they know nothing about.
You want to “solve” the CO2 problem of hydrocarbon burning? Build 1500 nuclear plants, a mixture of uranium and thorium burning plants, and the problem is solved. Waste? We have solved that one as well.
If you really want to blow an irony meter, you can print this on the back of that Al Gore rationing card:
Interesting what running for office will do to one’s perspective (especially someone who’s principles seem so…er…malleable).
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/economy/july-dec00/oil_9-21.html
Mind you, this was all when the price of oil was an unbearable $34/barrel.
What a difference a decade makes.
Rationing defn “Rationing is the controlled distribution of scarce resources, goods, or services. Rationing controls the size of the ration, one’s allotted portion of the resources being distributed on a particular day or at a particular time.”
The trouble is that the resources being ‘rationed’ are not scarce and their supply is quite capable of adjusting to meet demand – this will not work, it has the same problem as Carbon trading – i.e. everybody needs to sign up for it to work, and those who don’t get all the lovely cake – literally.
Back to square one I think.. but it will be fun to watch them try to sell this.
Cap and trade will not happen, more and more people are skeptical of man made warming, Liberal Democrats have lost their stranglehold on the US government and warmists are becoming desperate. An old friend, WWII fighter pilot and boss of mine used to explain to me how when someone’s favorite idea had been proven indisputably wrong and they continue to argue when even they know the cause is lost, the noises made are a death gargle. These utterings by “scientists” prior to Cancun are the death gargles of the man-made warming theory.
The alarming thing in the Times article is
They are claiming an rate of +0.8C per decade, while the recent trend is +0.1C or less. This is not junk science, it is schizophrenia.
_Jim says:
November 29, 2010 at 5:51 pm
“I say: Go for it! It’s how old Joe Kennedy (daddy to John F. and Ted) started his fortune which continues through to this day via the Kennedy Family Trust Fund …”
Yes, the genius of these Cancun folks could bring the return of bootleg “corn licker” throughout the USA. Are they aware that all of us will be barefoot, wearing overalls, smoking a pipe, and carrying shotguns?
SwampWoman says:
November 29, 2010 at 5:42 pm
A, uh, Cancun climate change summit? Why not a Minnesota climate change summit? Why not a Scotland climate change summit?
Hey!
We could accommodate them Right Here in Sunny Lake Simcoe Ontario Canada — The Briars is an excellent resort — right on the Lake at Jackson’s Point. Today it warmed up to about +5C (it was down to -12C a couple of days ago) — tomorrow it will be really warm — +8C and raining and Wednesday too…
The wind off the lake could chill a Martini — but for here it’s warm. Soon it will be back to the seasonal average which hovers around +3C — with -5C nights — but you can still wear a bikini — if you can hack it. They can take tours a few minutes north of here and see lots of nice cold global warming — all white and fluffy! They can even see the local brown bears and black bears (unfortunately no Polar bears) which do so love a tasty, corpulent, soft, tender climate scientist as an appetizer before lunch.
A refreshing swim in the lake should improve their attitudes immensely.
Maybe a rise in CO2 increases dementia.
As evidenced by “Professor” Anderson…who has unequivocally LOST his marbles.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
One good thing these bozos have done is inspire many to dedicate their lives to defeating and obliterating Statism. Now that the lights are shining on it, its ugliness is becoming more apparent daily.
yet… they fly everywhere to those conferences to find better ways to create a Social Revolt.
Fun Quiz
I got 8/10 [#1 & #9 wrong]
[This is at least 10% on topic, as you will see☺]
has anyone posted this?
27 Nov: UK Telegraph: Christopher Booker: There are black days ahead for the carbon industry
It might seem mildly entertaining that the media’s warmist groupies, led by the BBC, have been so eager to report the latest claims of James Hansen and Phil Jones – of Climategate fame – that 2010 is the hottest year in history, while inches of “global warming” cover Britain with its most extensive November snowfall in 17 years, heralding what promises to be our fourth unusually cold winter in a row. The explanation for the recent renewed spate of warmist scare stories lies, of course, in the fact that several thousand politicians, officials and lobbyists from all over the world are today arriving in the Mexican holiday resort of Cancun, where they hope to salvage a binding UN treaty from the wreckage of last December’s fiasco in Copenhagen.
None of the lobbying has been more telling than a statement issued by 259 investment organisations, controlling “collective assets totalling over $15 trillion” – including major banks, insurance companies and pension funds. These are the bodies calling most stridently for “government action on climate change”, because they are the ones who hope to make vast sums of money out of it. They are desperate for a treaty of the type they failed to get at Copenhagen – even more so since the collapse of the US cap and trade bill – because they see their chance of turning global warming into the most lucrative fruit machine in history dwindling by the month.
Top of their wish list is “a rapid time-frame” for implementing the UN’s REDD scheme, which would enable them to make hundreds of billions of dollars by selling the CO2 locked up in the world’s tropical rainforests as “carbon offsets”, thus allowing firms from the developed world to continue emitting CO2. Under this scheme, for instance, environmental bodies including the WWF hope to share in the $60 billion which they estimate as the “carbon value” of the Brazilian rainforest….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8165189/There-are-black-days-ahead-for-the-carbon-industry.html
We seem to be well into the age of Scientific Ouroboros — the worm that continually eats its own tail. The scientific community is increasingly engaging in pronouncements that end up biting themselves in the ass. If they’re not making ridiculous statements that are contradicted two paragraphs later (such as claiming something is “unprecedented,” and then saying that the last time it happened was X number of years ago) then they’re doing things like demanding rationing while taking private jets to five star hotels in tropical resorts.
And this kind of internal contradiction isn’t just happening in climatology — that’s just the most extravagantly-funded one. I used to hero-worship scientists. Now I don’t trust a thing they say.
This is a joke, right?
Naw, I know…
But, really, the AGW enthusiasts are becoming more and more hilarious. Are these people SO out of touch that they think the public will allow themselves to “lower their standard of living” to support a completely unproven, undemonstrated “problem?”
WHAT???
Steve Fitzpatrick says:
November 29, 2010 at 6:33 pm
“I read all the Royal Society abstracts, and skimmed most of the articles. Outside of the article on sea level change (which is at least reasonable), they are total rubbish…”
If you mean this paper, I’m not sure why it doesn’t go into the rubbish bin too…
Sea-level rise and its possible impacts given a ‘beyond 4°C world’ in the twenty-first century
Robert J. Nicholls et al.
Just look at it… just more convenient speculation based on the ridiculous premise of a 4 C rise by 2100… timed to stampede lemmings for Cancun. And even then, it is so loaded with qualifiers that it is nothing more than conveniently alarming mush.
“The range of future climate-induced sea-level rise remains highly uncertain with continued concern that large increases in the twenty-first century cannot be ruled out. The biggest source of uncertainty is the response of the large ice sheets of Greenland and west Antarctica. Based on our analysis, a pragmatic estimate of sea-level rise by 2100, for a temperature rise of 4°C or more over the same time frame, is between 0.5 m and 2 m—the probability of rises at the high end is judged to be very low, but of unquantifiable probability. However, if realized… [blah, blah, blah, send me money]”
The Royal Society is now as big a joke as the British royal family. But I’m sure Prince “The Tampon” Charles thinks it is just ducky.
The analogy is wrong. I am old enough to have used WWII rations. They were introduced because there was a shortage of the goods. When you have only a certain amount of fuel to power a country’s cars, you have to work out a way distribute it fairly and with efficiency. That’s why there was rationing.
That is nothing like rationing fuel because of an ill-understood quasi-scientific hypothesis about a change of climate.
[But gasoline rationing in WWII was created to deliberately restrict driving – not because gasoline was in short supply, but because the rubber for new tires was in short supply when the Japanese conquered the Malaysia/Indonesia rubber plantations. If fewer miles were being driven because gas was rationed, then fewer tires would wear out. Robt]
@ Enginear says:
November 29, 2010 at 6:21 pm
I’ll second that. Just to give those who may not know the scale of personal arms in parts of the USA: I live in a small farming community in the South, about 2500 souls. Everyone I know has at least 4 or 5 firearms of various descriptions – handguns, shotguns, rifles. From that sample I’d estimate that there are upwards of 10,000 firearms, with appropriate ammo, within a 4 mile radius of my house . Crime is non-existent, btw.
Its very hard to soldier on for the great cause, when you keep blowing your own feet off and your team keeps shelling you. I second Death Gargle as the sound these self styled experts are making.
In the slang of my youth, what are they on and where do I get some? This kind of nonsense is not science and has not basis in science.
I am OK with rationing gasoline in the event the USA defaults on it’s debt obligations and the rest of the world cuts us off from them which is a mathematical certainty that is going to happen in the near future. I will be good with a ration of 15 gallons of gas per week per household. I’m only using about half that right now and can sell half my ration stamps at that rate.
There is a difference between income and wealth. Most people in the developed world exist on the former which comes or came from work. So if we don’t work, earn, and buy things — to whom do the other folks sell to?
Professor Kevin Anderson, said the only way to reduce global emissions enough, while allowing the poor nations to continue to grow, is to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.
To grow, poor nations need cheap energy and strong markets. Kevin Anderson must have gotten his professorship out of a Cracker Jack box*.
——————————-
*”A Prize in Every Box” http://www.crackerjack.com/history.php
Everyone might enjoy today’s entry from James Delingpole’s blog at the Telegraph in the UK. His title is “‘Now Mass Suicide Is the Only Option’ Say Cancun Scientists.”
And how the hell is the developing world going to develop….if we reduce our consumption
maybe they can get rich selling rocks to each other.
on different note
Al Gored ,
I say the article is reasonable because it points out the very large uncertainties in sea level rise, and suggests a likely range of rise that overlaps the range many non-climate scientists would consider credible…. no claims of Florida, New York City, and London going under water. That is, not so much to get alarmed about.
The rest of the papers are just unhinged raging…. no surprise there. Like I said, these look like the last gasps of the true devotees.
The mask comes off. Behind this eco ‘science’ of AGW
Who is the crazy conspiracy nuts now??
Again i wonder what else conspiracy theorist are right about..
… is a thorough-going hatred of the West — pure Leftist ideology, nothing to do with saving the planet at all.
(Apologies for bifurcated post – don’t know what happened there)
we should always remember that when talking to a catastrophist, or any other salesman, `up to` clearly includes the figure zero.
I’m pretty sure I know what this is.
Maybe it takes someone like myself from a left wing loony bin to explain what this is.
They’re raising a more insane objective (they have no intention of pursuing) so they can then posture their real lunatic intentions as moderate, reasonable and a compromise.
Or it’s chum to lure people away from critiquing other areas of the AGW agenda.
Or they have indeed crossed over to moronsville and believe they have come up with a brilliant idea.
There are times when I think many of THEM are just too dumb to properly ponder the planet.
The number to call is 202 224 3121 (Senate switchboard)
# on the Monsanto Food Bill S-510
If you want to stop the takeover of America’s food supply, get on this now!
Come on guys, give the the good Lysenkoist Professor a break ……
….. he knows it’s his last boondoggle. Why not go out in style ??
It’s a surprise this was so early in the conference. I would have put it in the final session and everyone could go to the farewell party straight afterwards.
The theme of this conference should have been “Grasping at Straws”, the optics work with a nice beach scene and an ice-cold margarita in the frame.
jae says:
November 29, 2010 at 7:04 pm
This is a joke, right?
Naw, I know…
But, really, the AGW enthusiasts are becoming more and more hilarious.
Are these people SO out of touch that they think the public will allow themselves to “lower their standard of living” to support a completely unproven, undemonstrated “problem?”
WHAT???
==============================
I know, I know…I was thinking the same thing. They really ARE that out of touch.
They are absolutely, stark, raving mad.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Instead of rationing, I have decided to engage
in one hour of self-flagellation, every day until
I become a socialist.
self-flag•el•la•tion
1. The act of severely criticizing oneself.
2. The act of punishing oneself.
Ian Middleton says: (November 29, 2010 at 6:08 pm) I’ll be down on the corner wearing a trenchcoat with a brace of rabbits, a chook and 15 watches in the lining.
Go, Ian! Not enough of the world calls a spade a spade and a chook a chook. Amusing, but in some countries they call them chickens! Hah!
IF one believes the GCMs, why not swallow ALL the nutty consequences? THEY do.
Reme[m]ber that the Environmental Correspondents are all staying at the same 5 star re[s]ort as the others.
Judd says: (November 29, 2010 at 6:12 pm) …why oh why oh why can’t these morons leave ordinary people alone to live thrive and survive.
Sweetly put, Judd.
Newton once head of the Royal Society must now be turning in his grave.
What a bunch of wankers. I’m lost for any other words.
[snip – way off topic, nothing to do with this blog ~mod]
You really don’t have to worry about the left wing loons. They believe man is responsible for the warming of the entire planet. That’s why they are loons.
I for one am 100% supportive of the rich countries limiting themselves while allowing the poor countries to grow their economies. Of course, I gots me some “requirements”:
1. No deal until they become full democracies and,
2. Establish freedom of speech and,
3. Establish a free press and,
4. Establish freedom of religion and,
5. Establish equality of the sexes and,
6. Establish equality of the races and,
7. Establish the rule of law and,
8. Do it all without anymore handouts from the rich countries now, or ever.
Good deal I think. Look at all the good stuff they’d be getting. Who would turn down all that freedom and equality? These aren’t unfair demands, they’re BENEFITS! I’m certain they will accept in a heart beat.
Until then of course the rich countries had best remain rich so that someone can send food and aid to the starving in the poor countries which of course we will do out of guilt that we are rich and they are poor.
Oops… forgot 9 and 10 universal education and health care. More benefits. Give it a shot poor countries… we’re waiting…. like the last couple of centuries or so, we’re waiting…
I say, let’s oblige them immediately by imposing rationing of return plane flights to the point of complete and total suspension. Let’s leave these crazy scientists and their political cohorts in Cancun indefinitely. Maybe once they’ve experienced the full Mexican Drug Cartel Experience first hand they’ll come to the realization that far more pressing problems face the world’s population. And while they’re there, since most of them are from rich countries, let them all start with a 3-day fast to see how much fun going without food can be!
Hey! I’m way ahead of you guys. I still have my last WWII rationing book with some unused stamps. I was in grammar school at the time so the only downside is, no gas stamps.
john ratcliffe says:
November 29, 2010 at 5:40 pm
I sometimes wonder if the sole purpose of some institutions is to invent new levels of incompetence, and they then expect others to achieve them. Unfortunately, they appear to have some succes
This rings a bell.
“in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to their level of incompetence”.
Never thought it would apply to scientists, more so to whole institutions, but it seems that it does. And that incompetence allows them to make fools of themselves in front of the whole world.
On the subject, isn’t cap and trade a type of rationing? They just want it for the man on the street. In feudal times it was called “head tax”. A village had to pay tax according to the number of heads living there.
Lookit. We don’t have to ever worry about not having enough consumer goods in the event the rest of the world cuts us off. We have every attic, crawlspace, garage, nook, and cranny crammed with every imaginable consumer item known to man purchased from cheep labor countries from around the world. All we really need is Craigslist.
[snip – lately, your posts have been nothing but ugly missives, try to contribute something intelligent and meaningful other than off topic snarky one-liners ~mod]
It is as if climate scientists are sitting in a great circle around a camp fire, passing a joint and telling ghost stories.
Phil’s Dad said/asked “What is his “Plan B”?”
Something that begins with “Z” and ends with “B” and was also devastatingly unpopular with certain populations during WWII ?
regarDS
Definitely a disconnect with tge realities of the need and impact. They seem to forget about the deaths that occur in the summer and winter when there’s a shortage of the ability to heat or cool homes. The same thing would happen with this type of rationing. I would expect a decrease in life expectancy from this alone.
But just as CO2 that’s caused by nature isn’t nearly as harmful as CO2 caused by humans, so too deaths caused by combating climate change aren’t nearly as harmful as deaths caused by simply dying.
“Unless emissions are reduced dramatically in the next ten years the world is set to see temperatures rise by more than 4C (7.2F) by as early as the 2060s, causing floods, droughts and mass migration.”
And, of the threat of rationing really DOES come true, the world is set to see TEMPERS rise drastically by 2012, causing mass migrations from certain parties.
And as usual, not a single peep from the Australian MSM. I am spreading this “news” as far and as wide as I can. This may turn out to be very damaging for the alarmists, I certainly hope so.
Will anyone be even talking about Cancun after this Thursdays ET announcement by Nasa 2pm EST
Just watched a newscast on Channel Ten, Australia. Plenty of mention about “climate change”, plenty of talk about setting emissions tagrets, plenty of Politicans stating “it’s getting worse day after day…” (Well it certanily IS getting colder), plenty of Politicians flying off to Cancun, plenty of talk about an AU$40 price per tonne of “carbon emissions” yet ZERO mention of rationing as one potential solution.
Then, right after, the weathercast. Sydney has had it’s coldest, wettest spring since 1999, and noly 4 days over 30c. Brisbane, Queensland, has not had a day over 30c at all this spring. And then scenes of the snow falls, early snow falls, in England.
First day of summer, 1St Dec. Forecast is for wet, cold weather with temps well down on average for this time of year.
Cold NH, cold SH, low Solar activity. Are these people that blind to see that at least the last 4 years in a row have all been colder in both hemispheres?
Meanwhile back at the funny farm known as the BBC, Ecuador wants 3.5 billion for doing……nothing. Listen after the silly [snip] has finished playing around with rubbish she finds on the beach.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00c1sw6/The_Climate_Connection_The_Climate_Connection_2010_The_Selfish_Ape
Isn’t there a name for such a system? Gulag
OK, I read (albeit quickly in a fast skim) the above comments and didn’t see an emphasis on what I think is THE most telling bit:
The goal here is simply wealth redistribution. Let the “poor countries” have all the economic growth, never mind who does all the inventing, investing, and who labored to build the worlds capital stock…. give it to the “poor” countries…
OK, this is pretty clear cut. It’s called “theft”. In some countries we have property rights. (And, I’ll note, in keeping with the above comments about the US 2nd Amendment: the guns with which to protect those rights…) Someone wants to commit theft, no matter how noble, is going to be looking down the barrel of a 12 gauge shotgun; or more. The exact number of guns in the USA is not known, but it’s somewhere around 2 for every man, woman, and child in the country.
So I say “Bring it on.” The faster the better. Just try to put in place rationing. Every time the command economy is tried, it fails, and miserably. The quickest way I know of to get the bulk of our citizenry marching (armed and pissed) into Washington is to tell them they need gas rationing books and food rationing books so China and India can take their jobs faster. Just try to tell “Bubba” that there will be a 1 beer limit on Saturday and No Nascar. It won’t be pretty… (But I’ll be happy to shoot a load of pictures for “posterity”… )
“Let them eat cake” will be replaced by “let them take public transit” as a metaphor for stupidity in leadership…
Heck, as long as I get the same rations as Al Gore I’m ok with this scheme.
FrankK November 29, 2010 at 8:45 pm
It’s worse than that, the current President of the Royal Society is also Master of Newton’s old college Trinity, Cambridge.
Lets see the evidence that it’s such a serious threat … As the snow piles up.
When you are reduced to lies, your cause is dead. When your cause is reduced to laughter, you really should take what is left of your dignity and move on. Didn’t the CCX die a few weeks back? So how will we trade breaths?
Read the comments on the article at the Telegraph. There is no support for the eco-fascism promoted by Louise Gray. Ordinary citizens of the UK can see through the climate change scam.
Many rich countries now have deep debt and financial troubles that force them to borrow further, then they are expected to give more climate money to poorer countries, then they are urged not to grow economically for 20 years. Wow!
Steve Fitzpatrick says:
November 29, 2010 at 7:42 pm
“Al Gored ,
I say the article is reasonable because it points out the very large uncertainties in sea level rise, and suggests a likely range of rise that overlaps the range many non-climate scientists would consider credible…. no claims of Florida, New York City, and London going under water. That is, not so much to get alarmed about.”
OK. Makes sense. So, compared to the other papers, that one is better than rubbish. Let’s call it compost.
How are those Pol-Pot fans gonna travel to Can(t)cun ?
@ E. M. Smith: I was about to indulge a niggle I have with the “Let them eat cake” quote, but that became secondary when I applied what I believe is the correct interpretation and realized the translation of the full sentence actually illustrates the mindset and confusion of the AWG fraternity rather well:
“Finally I recalled the last retort of a great princess who was told that the peasants had no bread, and who responded: Let them eat brioche.” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s Confessions
As brioche is a luxury bread enriched with eggs and butter, it would reflect the princess’s obliviousness to the nature of a famine.
Trondheim (Norway) experiences coldest November in 222 years.
http://www.aftenposten.no/vaer/article3927193.ece
A place to consider for COP17?
Maybe we can harvest mars bugs. I`m pretty sure my my ol`mums wartime ration recipes will have some suggestions,maybe with spam and powdered egg.
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/nov/HQ_M10-167_Astrobiology.html?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cf43fbcddea338d,0
http://www.billoreilly.com/quiz
10/10.
These threats out of Cancun are acts of desperation.
A child threatening to kill himself by holding his breath.
Imagine what it would be like if they had power.
Tim says:
November 29, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Precise: The Leftard Bogan Queen has a $395,000 experiment going on Norfolk Island right now.
As Steeptown says above, the article in the UK’s Daily Telegraph about this rationing idea has attracted a good deal of attention, almost all of it in the same vein as the comments here!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/8165769/Cancun-climate-change-summit-scientists-call-for-rationing-in-developed-world.html
Ah, the old soften ’em up routine. They will ‘relent’ on severe rationing and attempt to introduce punative taxes on ‘bad’ goods and services instead, as a ‘favour’ to the public.
Just think of all the nasty co2 and So2 going into the atmosphere from the burning tyres on the barracades!
There is a book written by HG Wells.
“The shape of things to come”
In the book, the unit of currency becomes an air-dollar/energy-dollar, based
on ability to transport a kg (or lb) a certain distance. This unit of currency
is part of a grand global dictatorship.
The beauty or insidiousness of the AGW regulations proposed are that
they ration energy consumption, and if energy consumption is rationed
then one effectively rations income.
Frank K. says:
November 29, 2010 at 5:46 pm
By the way…Here’s Kevin Anderson…
And here’s the “carbon services” company he’s involved with…
Greenstone Carbon Management……………….
It’s easy to dismiss Kevin and his ilk as a bunch of typical dreaming, academic hippie relics – but its really got more sinister than that now.
If you look at the founders and board of his company they’re mainly hard headed bankers, accountants and investors. One of the founders runs a large corporate car leasing business.
Surprisingly, greenie Kevin’s cv on the corporate website says “Prior to his academic work Kevin gained 12 years industrial experience working for Marathon Oil, Hamilton Oil/BHP and P&O shipping………..”
It’s not about “the planet” anymore -“Green” has subtly metamorphasised into “greed”, George Orwell must be chortling in his grave.
“scientists call for rationing in developed world” call on leaders of the western world to commit political suicide
Hansen takes the stand
While the great carbon-dioxide-taxation circus kicks off in Cancun, Hansen is in Britain defending some eco-fascists who want to force us all back into the stone age, based on nothing more than their sense of moral superiority and the carbon dioxide fairy story.
“Activists” (or eco-Fascists, as I prefer to call them) accused of conspiracy to trespass were arrested before they carried out plan to force E.ON’s coal plant at Ratcliffe-on-Soar to shut down
Prof James Hansen Professor James Hansen flew in from the United States to be a defence witness for climate change “activists” charged with trespass.
The anger of 114 “activists” who planned to break into a coal plant near Nottingham was understandable because of the “lies told by governments about climate change,” Nasa’s top scientist told the trial of 20 climate campaigners. (If this is the best the so-called “top” scientist can do, God save us.)
Twenty “activists” are accused of conspiracy to trespass on private property. They were arrested last Easter before the group were able to carry out their plan to force E.ON’s coal plant at Ratcliffe-on-Soar to shut down for a week. The “activists” claim that had they succeeded, 150,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide would not have been emitted.
…That bit about the “150,000 tonnes of CO2” is a lie. E.ON was going to install CO2 removing technology, so the only thing going up the condensers would have been steam.
Hansen, a vocal critic of coal power, told Nottingham crown court: “The fact that we continue to burn more coal and build more coal plants shows governments are not telling the truth “If they are saying they understand climate problem but will continue to burn coal its easy for me to understand that young people get upset, because they know governments are lying or kidding themselves.”
Hansen’s evidence was crucial in the case of the “Kingsnorth six” who broke into the Kent coal-fired power station and scaled a chimney. Their “lawful excuse” defence, that the harm they did was committed to prevent the greater harm of climate change, was successful and they were acquitted in September 2008.
…Got that? Another bunch of sanctimonious eco-Fascists were cleared in a previous trial after Hansen turned up and said exactly what he is saying now.
Sarah Shoraka, biodiversity campaigner with Greenpeace, from North London, was the first defendant in the witness box. Felicity Gerry for the prosecution asked her why, rather than spend £15,000 on the planned plant occupation, the group did not enlist a celebrity like Cheryl Cole to front a “green” campaign to encourage people to wear second hand clothes for example.
Telling the court that she had a compost toilet at home, she also said that the “Meat Free Monday” campaign to cut down on meat consumption and related emissions promoted by Coldplay’s Chris Martin and Sir Paul McCartney was, “quite an effective campaign because some celebrities are involved.”
She suggested the activists should have tried something similar. “Why did you not just do ‘turn off Tuesday or switch off Saturday'”.
Shoraka, who did not deny her involvement in the protest, said that it was not a publicity stunt. She also expressed her frustration at the time with politicians’ failure to ban coal plants: “I was very pessimistic at the time. I did not see there was any political will to go anywhere near tackling this problem. I felt it was hopeless. These people who were supposed to be there to protect us failed in their duty to do that.”
Gerry also asked professor Hansen “it may be suggested… that if we all use biodegradable compost toilets and switch off the lights then that will achieve significant results in reducing the level of CO2. What do you say to that?”
Hansen responded “Unfortunately that will do little good… burning it a little more slowly, being a little more conservative in our use. We are going to have to leave fossil fuels in the ground. The biggest one to leave in the ground is coal.”
Hansen told the court the UK was the world’s biggest carbon polluter on a per-person basis since industrialisation so the onus was on the UK to lead the way in phasing out coal plants.Gerry put it to him: “its grandma”s fault.” Hansen responded: “Yes but grandma didn’t know about it. We do now.”
He also explained that he had begun speaking out more in last five years because he now had grandchildren. “I did not want them to say pa, you understood what was happening but you never made it clear. You can see the changes now. The things which will happen during the lifetime of our young people if we continue as business as usual will dwarf these [current] inconveniences.”
…What Hansen fails to mention is that atmospheric carbon dioxide has a maximum life of ten years, but most of it is absorbed into the sea and biosphere within 14 months. Talking about grandma’s CO2 production as if it’s somehow relevant to today’s climate is just plain lying to the court (again).
Professor Kevin Anderson, Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research: “The only way to reduce global emissions enough, while allowing the poor nations to continue to grow, is to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.”
Maurice Strong, founding executive director of the United Nations Environment Programme: “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsiblity to bring that about?”
Singing from the same hymn sheet?
If they get it wrong with their rationing ideas than the Dutch Famine of 1944/45 will be a walk in the park compared to the humanitarian disaster that will strike!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_famine_of_1944
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poMfISFFrhE&feature=related
There is a lot to say about the things that we do wrong, but if we give in to those world climate jamboree attendees than we are to repeat this hungerwinter sooner or later, and its not question of will it happen? but when?
The “scientists” create a concept, paid by taxpayers’ money, serving as foundation for a money-making spin-off, generating private wealth.
Interesting and low-risk business model. Profit rates probably comparable with the drug business, but a lot of reputation and pleasure instead of deadly risks.
These are the money guys in Greenstone:
…M. was the founder Chief Executive of HSBC Private Bank (UK) for over 16 years
… S. was CFO of DE Capital Management LLP, a multi strategy hedge fund
Looks like another bubble is growing fast.
The word ‘FASCISM’ conjures up memories of Hitler, Mussolini and the holocaust. But the original meaning of the word was much more benign than those alter manifestations. The ‘Fasces’ were bundles of sticks tied into a long bundle, around the shaft of an axe. The symbolism was that, anyone can break an individual stick – but nobody can break a united bundle of sticks. In other words, ‘the people united can never be defeated’, ‘unity is strength’ etc. The bundle of sticks with axes protruding from each end was the dominant sculptural symbol of the Roman republic – and it was a symbol for democratic societies for many centuries. You can see the ‘Fasces’ sculpted onto the face of public buildings, libraries, town halls etc across Europe and the USA.
The political definition of ‘Fascism’ is “Centralised, Authoritarian Democracy” – and the ‘Statists’ who are imagining this authoritarian future: of rationed fuel, food, foreign holidays – are simply ‘Fascists’. They see themselves as the enlightened high priests of the new green movement that will manage the brave new world. The rest of us are ‘the Proles’, who must be controlled and managed in terms of reproduction, edukashun, work, consumption – every aspect of behaviour controlled by the elite.
I can remember the rationing during WWII. Petrol was not such a problem because life then was not as varied as today and there was little or no need to travel far. We were fed better due to there being no fast food and meats with high fat content were rationed rather than vegetables. If you lived in the country then meat was no problem provided you liked rabbit or the odd pheasant or partridge which found its way into the pot. There was also less media interference reporting the serious plight that we were in so everyone looked on the bright side.
Today media seems to think that we have to have out lives regulated to ‘save the planet’ which is a concept that they do not seem to understand. The best way to save the planet is to let it get on with the way it has always done and not interfere.
Foxgoose says: (November 30, 2010 at 1:29 am) It’s not about “the planet” anymore -”Green” has subtly metamorphasised into “greed”, George Orwell must be chortling in his grave.
I tend to think “weeping in his grave” because we did not heed his warning.
I was particularly attracted to the comment by Prof Anderson that..
Quote “I am not saying we have to go back to living in caves,” he said. “Our emissions were a lot less ten years ago and we got by ok then.” unquote.
Perhaps I have missed something regarding caves. When I travel around Ireland, I have only been into 2 cave systems. One is the Ailwee cave and I have forgotten the name of the other one. Both of these caves are quite small. Neither would accommodate more than a couple of hundred people. The population of all Ireland is probably about 6 million.
I know that there is evidence in France and some other countries that ancient people may have used caves in the distant past. Cave paintings show the proof of this.
In other countries, how many residential caves have been found? Not many, believe me.
In New Zealand there are 2 major caves. Waitomo is in the North Island, and is not suitable at all for occupation. In the South Island, by lake Te Anau are the famous Te Ana-au caves. The words Te Ana-au mean Cave of Rushing (or swirling) waters. No room in either of these to accommodate 4.5 million people and all those sheep.
So, please, would idiot professors, stupid climate change alarmists, insane green religionists, and other similar fools stop talking about “HAVING TO GO BACK TO LIVING IN CAVES
It just won’t happen. Unless we build more caves of course. How many billions of tons of concrete would we need for that I wonder?
Peter Walsh, Dublin
.
Why are Greens so out of touch with life and the world?
So we introduce rationing, while China builds one new coal fired power station every week for the next five years. Yeah, now that will really reduce emissions.
Is someone selling hair-shirts down at Cancun?
.
David, UK says November 30, 2010 at 1:43 am
Maurice Strong, founding executive director of the United Nations Environment Programme: “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsiblity to bring that about?”
That should be EVIL CANADIAN Maurice Strong, he who hides in China.
“Global warming is now such a serious threat to mankind that climate change experts are calling for Second World War-style rationing in rich countries to bring down carbon emissions.”
Thats really funny, what has changed over the past year that no scientists know about? Scientists have been years trying to find any evidence to demonstrate that global warming is a serious threat and failed. Nothing has changed in the past year except with a strongish El Nino global temperatures are expected to be higher then when there isn’t one. Thanks for continuing the evidence that these people are nothing, but just a propaganda machine saying the same increasingly worse nonsense, when the scientific evidence points increasingly the opposite way. If nobody sees this then I’m sorry you are blind.
mistake- in above post, should be nonsense.
[Correction facilitated …. bl57~mod]
Smokey says:
November 29, 2010 at 7:02 pm
9 of 10 correct here. I got #9 wrong.
The stupidity of the rationing idea is beyond description. To destroy economies that advanced on a native streak of inspired invention typified by the Scots is so far into the realms of Marxist dreaming that people such as Louise Gray, who breathlessly report each syllable of this nonsense, will wake up soon to discover they are unemployable; even worse, they have tarred themselves so completely that there will be no problem finding somewhaere to stick the feathers.
“This could mean a limit on electricity so people are forced to turn the heating down, turn off the lights and replace old electrical goods like huge fridges with more efficient models.”
Which is why many national Governments are pushing for smart meters – to ration electricity.
As an athlete I need to consume between 4000-5000 clean calories a day – efficient healthy eating. Putting me on rations would kill my hope of a career of any kind based on sport. Putting poor athletes on rations would consign them to the ghettos of the world – no more future heroes for kids to look up to.
So pardon my anger, to those who consider AGW to be a threat worth curtailing human liberties – we’ll remember your names and if we suffer any loss of dignity or quality of life or ambition, we’ll come for you and put you down like every dictator who has fallen before.
This is the last hurrah for Global Warming alarmism being taken seriously by Governments across the world. China will not sign anything. The US cannot sign anything. India will not sign. Brazil and South Africa will not sign.
With Italy the next country to be on the verge of massive austerity measures, Berlusconi (for all of his many, many faults) will campaign for the wretched carbon cap scheme to be scrapped as a waste of money.
I remember the last-but-one Labour Government falling in 1979 after its Prime Minister went to a nice sunny conference in the Caribbean while Britain shivered in extremely cold weather with rubbish on the streets from massive public sector strikes. The Labour Government fell.
You won’t find the current UK PM sunning himself at Cancun negotiating for rationing and economic standstill. He knows his political history too well to make that sort of mistake. The UK is covered in snow this morning.
When you’re desperate to keep the money flowing when you’re losing the argument, then you ramp up the rhetoric and fear.
Robt moderates what Geoff Sherrington says November 29, 2010 at 7:17 pm “[But gasoline rationing in WWII was created to deliberately restrict driving – not because gasoline was in short supply, but because the rubber for new tires was in short supply when the Japanese conquered the Malaysia/Indonesia rubber plantations. If fewer miles were being driven because gas was rationed, then fewer tires would wear out. Robt]
Clarification: I was in Australia, where the most troublesome rations were meat and dairy products. Fuel was given as an example above. Fuel was short here as well, because we produced no petroleum of our own then, IIRC.
The point of emphasis was that rationing was more often to give fairness in distribution, not to conserve or export some modelled scientific hypothesis. And it hurt. When my Dad came back from WWII in New Guinea, we had little money. One Christmas my 2 brothers and I received a ripe mango in the stocking. This was not all that costly, as they grew on a tree near the house of 2 rooms that we 5 survived in, with no running water.
And they wonder why they are losing in the public opinion polls.
Thats it. At -2C i turn off the heating. I’ll have just a streak of bacon for dinner so as to stop this transportation of vegetables from afar. Think of all the c02 that will be saved.
in summer, go the opposite way and turn off air conditioning
make eco friendly clothes from bin bags, so as to save on c02 producing factories and plant.
Turn off the lights and sit in darkness.
Walk from London to Manchester, Milwaukess to New York, or Paris to Lyons and Tokyo to Osaka.
Foreign travel – that’s easy. rowing boats produce no c02. It would be a mighty adventure to go from the Port of New York to Southampton
When you really look into it, there are many ways we can carry on living as normal and achieve the same ends. The more the developing world advances, the greater we ought to severly curtail our lives.
heck we could even accommodate for El Nino. During an el nino year we can even ditch eating and rationing altogether.
“Global warming is now such a serious threat to mankind…”
Presumably becoming even more serious once we actually find some statistically significant warming. Perhaps they will find some on the beach in Mexico. Meanwhile here in the UK….
Sorry only got as far as “By Louise Gray, Environment Correspondent”.
I just emailed this to the Daily Telegraph. They have printed several of my letters in the past, but they won’t print this. After Climategate, the Telegraph’s climate change coverage became more balanced, but they’ve now reverted to type. All their recent climate change coverage is completely biased and one-sided.
Chris
**********************************
Sir,
You quote Professor Anderson as saying that, in order to halt our emissions, we
must ‘halt economic growth in wealthy countries for the next 20 years’. I believe
that most people would find this offensive, particularly as opinion polls clearly
show that the majority believe climate change is natural, and that we are currently
experiencing yet another harsh winter that suggests global cooling rather than
warming. But it gets better. A quote from his cv on the Tyndall Centre’s web
page: “He is currently a non-executive director of Greenstone Carbon
Management….”
So, as well as advocating the destruction of our future prosperity on the basis of
an unproven theory that is almost certainly wrong, he is personally profiting from
his own advocacy. I think it’s time climate scientists returned to honest science
rather than pursuing their own vested interests.
You’ve missed the important one. What will be the monthly ration for Victory Gin?
The world has endured nationalsocialism at the expense of 10 of millions deaths , shall we survive world socialism at the expense of 100 of millions dead bodies ?
‘Options include putting mirrors in space to reflect sunlight or covering Greenland in a massive blanket so it does not melt.
Sprinkling iron filings in the ocean “fertilises” algae so that it sucks up CO2 and “seeding clouds” means that less sunlight can get in. Other options include artificial “trees” that suck carbon dioxide out of the air, painting roofs white to reflect sunlight and man-made volcanoes that spray sulphate particles high in the atmosphere to scatter the sun’s rays back into space. ‘
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/8169039/Cancun-climate-change-summit-UN-considers-putting-mirrors-in-space.html
A massive blanket over Greenland – wow, grandiosity beyond even the most fevered dreams of the ‘normally’ psychotic patient. They are simply mad aren’t they, entirely, totally bananas. And the warmists take this seriously.
‘Psychosis (from the Greek ψυχή “psyche”, for mind/soul, and -ωσις “-osis”, for abnormal condition) means abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a “loss of contact with reality”. People suffering from psychosis are described as psychotic. Psychosis is given to the more severe forms of psychiatric disorder, during which hallucinations and delusions and impaired insight may occur. [1]. Some professionals say that the term psychosis is not sufficient as some illnesses grouped under the term “psychosis” have nothing in common (Gelder, Mayou & Geddes 2005)
People experiencing psychosis may report hallucinations or delusional beliefs, and may exhibit personality changes and thought disorder. Depending on its severity, this may be accompanied by unusual or bizarre behavior, as well as difficulty with social interaction and impairment in carrying out the daily life activities.’
That’s the wikipedia take on it. Fits well.
“Gareth says:
November 30, 2010 at 3:13 am”
Already installed in many countries. Australia is also pushing for smart meters, while power costs are rising exponetially at this time. The Australian Govn’t is also pushing for an internet information filter – designed to protect our children. What the minister fails to understand that “tech savvy” crimials know how to get around these things.
“Geoff Sherrington says:
November 30, 2010 at 3:59 am”
Rationing, during WWII, lead to a massive growth in the black market. One thing is true, less food and more activity lead to the British public being at the hight of health. The Australian Govn’t is also considering a “fat food tax”. Ok so a summary about consumption taxes of the like, and their success, in Aus;
Smoking taxes. Fail.
Pressed enter too soon…
In addition to these taxes;
Alco-pop tax (Pre-mixed drinks). Fail.
Alcohol tax. Fail.
Fat food tax. (Will) Fail.
Carbon tax. (Will) Fail.
But they have raised massive revenues for Govn’t.
Good. Puerile and idiotic announcements such as energy rationing will be more easily picked up by the general population who thus far have been assuming things will stay much the same if they let the greens ‘indulge’ themselves and assuage every ones guilt. Green stealth taxes have (sadly) been remarkably effective so far, but this type of full-frontal green garbage will go down with most people about as well as a cup of cold sick.
I say the Greens should take this energy rationing suggestion mainstream as soon as possible and let the populace see how they want to ‘Greenrupt’ what is left of our economies and beggar our citizens.
I’m a frequent reader of your articles on this website and I really appreciate your scientific view on the climate issues, thanks a lot for your great and ongoing work.
On the other side the IPCC maniacs together with their allied weather institutes in England and in my country, Germany, as well as others now promote AGW-alarms even heavier as before. They make conferences all over world to shut down entire economies under the faulty argument of global warming, sea level rise and other fake doomsday scenarios. This might look strange to some serious people, but I would say say it’s worse then that, it’s very very dangerous.
I read papers from IPCC conferences in Bonn (Germany) from 2009, where an english professor spoke for more “authoritarian governance” and noone dared to speak against him, they applauded him for his wise speeech.
Now, many so called “western democracies” like the US and UK, as well as others are some kind of “sliding” directly into this direction with more and more restrictions of their constitutional rights. America is now on the edge. The intentional financial melt down of the western economies makes this political shift even worse.
And now we have about 22000 persons sitting in Cancun/Mexico, discussing how to bring this ‘wonderful new world order’ into place by producing one environmental fraud after another, allways telling the same doomsday stories to frighten the world.
You people here on “Whats Up With That” really care about the science and they argue vr honestly, using the real data and not faked models. But the well funded people in Cancun and in the IPCC aboulutely don’t care about science any more. For them it’s not about science at all, it’s about a so called “global governance”, which to me sounds nothing more than “a modern way of corporate government under the ruling of internationl banksters”. Many critical persons tend to call this directly the new way of “Fascism”.
Fore me, this possible look into the future of mankind is frightening. I was a teacher for mathematics, physics and computer science for more then 22 years on german “Gymasiums”, but I quit my job because I refused to be a part of the scientific fraud game. The german teachers are heavily forced to teach these AGW lies and to participate on projects which look like Greenpeace promotion actions. I hope that the real scientist here and all over the world wake up and take political actions, because only discussing climate science isn’t enough in these days, we have to wake up people who don’t understand what’s really going on. Too often I read cynical comments about AGW, but this is a rather passive way to act, because it’s only for feeling better personally but it does not make other people active.
For me, this is the greatest worldwide scientific fraud in the history of mankind and the UN and western politicians us it directly and shamelessly to transform our lifes into a way of “modern slavery”, and all of this under the well established “governance” of some few wordwide corporate organistazions and global banks. By the way, why is the actual military spending of the NATO states about 1.6 Trillion Dollars? Against whom do they have to fight with such a unbelievable amount of money?
Detlef Reimers
The term Police State describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population.
To my mind, AGW always looked like the start of WWIII.
Just how out of touch are these guys?
savethesharks says:
November 29, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Maybe a rise in CO2 increases dementia. As evidenced by “Professor” Anderson…who has unequivocally LOST his marbles.
No he hasn’t. He’s laughing at you as he banks his fat non-executive director’s fee from ‘Greenstone Carbon Management’. He has sold his scientific integrity for this so it must be very rewarding. He works for big green$$$$$.
Rationing? Let’s give this scheme a try — no funding for scientific research from government; all research grants to come only from private resources for the next five years; automatic renewal at the end of every five year period.
[Automatic “renewal”? Or automatic “review of all”? 8<) Robt]
I’m at loss to understand these people, can there really be so many apparently intelligent nutters on the planet?
I’m reading Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged at the moment and, as most probably know, she praises the power of the individual and castigates the incompetency of the collectivists. I can see clear comparison between the world she envisaged 60 years ago and what has come to pass. I love her use of her term “looters” and “moochers” to describe the politicians and jobsworths.
People, come on – nobody wants you to live like North Koreans.
Or at least, the Tyndall researchers didn’t explicitly state that.
We haven’t needed rationing to limit growth in the US. We’ve had Keynesian economics. We could just vote in more of the current crop of jokers and achieve the same effect as rationing.
Well that is sure to help the poor contries. No more bananas from Fiji? Now how will they get any money. This appears to be turning into Anti-Globalization more than it is about environment
An ultimate dream of environmentalists: north of 38th latitude.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xpIrZxwWvv8/TGGHwvyINYI/AAAAAAAADVQ/aGasYpaeCPE/s1600/north+korea+satellite.jpg
Portugal’s Dictator, Salazar, wanted to plunge Portugal into a bucolic, Middle Age, agrarian coma;
He was from a Southern European Country, he was a “fascist”.
These guys want WORSE, but they’re rich Anglo-Saxons, blessed Hollywood, so they are “cool”?
DirkH says:
November 30, 2010 at 6:16 am
To be completely and totally blunt: It is none of their business HOW I live. That is up to me, and the subject should NOT even be a point of discussion. For them to advocate or dictate that I live one way or another is NONE of their business!
Period!
Thanks for the link, curiousgeorge. Have added it to my modest collection of fine c&w. Nothing to do with WUWT, however. Will now read subsequent posts.
New Order?
Been there, done that:
The Estado Novo was an authoritarian regime with an integralist orientation, which differed from fascist regimes by its lack of expansionism, lack of a charismatic leader, lack of party structure, and more moderate use of state violence.[4] It incorporated, however, the principles for its military from Benito Mussolini’s system in Italy. Salazar was a Catholic traditionalist who believed in the necessity of control over the forces of economic modernisation in order to defend the religious and rural values of the country, which he perceived as being threatened. One of the pillars of the regime was the PIDE, the secret police. Many political dissidents were imprisoned at the Tarrafal prison in the African archipelago of Cape Verde, on the capital island of Santiago, or in local jails. Strict state censorship was in place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estado_Novo_%28Portugal%29
communist, fascist, capitalist… pick your bogeyman. One thing, this whole AGW crap is just sand in our eyes while they try to dismantle our democracy.
They have successfully diverted the political energies of the young generation to “saving the planet” while they destroy society.
AGW is not a left/right issue that many seem to think it is. It’s gullible youth against those of us old enough to see through this [snip].
Re: suggestions about rationing. There is a significant section of the population that regards rationing as a good thing, like the early Christian doctrine about self flagellation as being good for the soul.
We have heard a lot of that in debates about water capture and use in Australia. Despite the fact that there is not, and never will be, a shortage of water on the planet – there are plenty of people who think that using water is a moral issue, and that no matter how much there is in the dams, we should all take 3 minute showers.
The same goes for ‘carbon footprints’ , carbon miles and the like. As has been demonstrated, it is better to grow something where it grows well and transport it than to grow it in a greenhouse and sell it locally.
The most ludicrous example is the so-called greenies who want today’s organic fresh pulled carrots delivered to their homes. A more inefficient, expensive and transport intensive mechanism could hardly be devised. But hey, it is all about Tarqin and Samantha (won’t anyone think of The Children?).
I don’t think that WUWT is about politics, directly. But I hope it keeps deflating political balloons based on bogus science.
Compared to many posters, I am practically a communist. Please don’t categorise people in terms of Left or Right. It just doesn’t work these days.
Thankfully, this will never fly in the USA.
We’ll simply vote anyone who pursues this nonsense out of office.
You might find this article interesting:
(Copy and Paste Link)
http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2010/11/29/the-climate-conference-echo-chamber/
(If this doesn’t work)
Cancun
…it says in part:
McAleer says the refusal to allow him access to the Cancun Climate Change Conference is censorship.
“I sent them exactly the same documentation that was acceptable for Copenhagen last year, but it seems they did not like my coverage of Copenhagen and are now trying to silence me and the people who have questions about this process,” said McAleer.
“The message is clear—ask UN scientists and politicians difficult questions and you will be banned from any UN sponsored events. No difficult questions allowed,” he added.
@P. Solar and others
Do agree with your take. Even the intelligent here waste far too much time making anti-left (liberals are scum) comments when this is not a left/right issue. It really isn’t youth v. age either. It is the masses falling for the fake left/right boxes they have been placed in by the(ir) media gurus. Communism from the left? Fascism from the right? Both add up to Totalitarianism.
On a hopeful note, maybe it is just another ploy to self-destruct the AGW gig.
AGW Progress Report: See no evil, ……. Bucky Balls.
Follow the bouncing Bucky monkey Balls.
“*[Denmark] DK centre for CO2 fraud”
“**Cancún climate summit: Let’s look beyond carbon”
…-
*Bucky:
“DK centre for CO2 fraud”
“The Danish CO2 register at the centre of European CO2 fraud for billions.”
“Denmark is at the centre of an extensive, international CO2 quota fraud that runs into the billions, according to the conclusions of a report from Tax Minister Troels Lund Poulsen (Lib) to the Energy Policy Committee, Ekstra Bladet reports.
Environment Committee Chairwoman Ida Auken says the report is sheer admission from the Tax Ministry.
“The Danish quota register is the centre for all of Europe’s fraud – we now have it black on white from the ministry itself,” Auken tells Ekstra Bladet and urges Climate Minister Lykke Friis to help the Naitonal Auditors to clean up.
“The Climate and Energy Minister has been trying to cover up the size of the scandal that is on her table. Now the Tax Minister has revealed the issue and passed the buck on to her,” Auken says, adding that the case is so big that responsibility must be placed in the issue.
38 billion
The report says that there has been fraudulent trading in CO2 quotas across the European Union, with many of the cases pointing back to Denmark.
Investigations are being carried out in several countries, with the Danish Fraud Squad involved in investigations in Germany, Spain, Norway and Belgium. In France alone, authorities have found some 151 quota accounts in the Danish register which they suspect have been used to carry out VAT fraud in CO2 quota trading.”
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/ECE1129571/dk-centre-for-co2-fraud/
…-
**Balls:
“Cancún climate summit: Let’s look beyond carbon”
“It’s unlikely countries will sign up to binding limits on carbon dioxide unless growth can be decoupled from the use of fossil”
“Let’s get the bad news out of the way first – there isn’t going to be a legally binding global climate treaty for at least three years, even as negotiators from 193 countries gather once again for the annual UN climate change conference, this time in Cancún, Mexico.
A legally binding global treaty remains the holy grail of climate change policy. It was to help achieve such an agreement that the Copenhagen conference last December was hyped into mankind’s last chance to save the planet; and, because it failed to do so, why a sense of doom has since descended on climate activists.
But a new global treaty to succeed the first phase of the Kyoto Protocol in 2012 is not even on the agenda for the conference in Cancún. With climate and energy legislation in the US having been abandoned, and with the two largest emerging powers China and India unwilling to make binding commitments of their own, the most Cancún can achieve is to put in place some important building blocks for a new regime – on issues such as adaptation to global warming, stopping deforestation and paying for it all – which will help rebuild trust and show that the UN process is not actually dead.
But the good news is that this doesn’t matter. ”
>>> (Wait!)
>>> Guardian headline refreshed/changed to:
“Cancún climate talks: In search of the holy grail of climate change policy
Although Copenhagen fell short of delivering a legally binding global treaty, Cancún is another step towards that ultimate goal”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2010/nov/29/cancun-climate-change-copenhagen
I was there.
This is what we were allowed.
Per week.
It works, I’m still here.
Meat: approx. 6 ounces (150g)
Eggs: 1
Fats (butter, margarine and lard): 4 ounces (100g)
Cheese: 4 ounces (100g)
Bacon: 4 ounces (100g) initially only 2 ounces (50g)
Sugar: 8 ounces (200g) initially 12 ounces (300g)
Tea: 2 ounces (50g)
Sweets: 2 ounces (50g)
A lot of UBoat crews (most of them) died trying to make tighter.
30% of London was obliterated (think of 30% of your city, town, village….)
And now the silly b*st*rds are at it again.
Patrick Davis says:
November 30, 2010 at 5:04 am
Pressed enter too soon…
In addition to these taxes;
Alco-pop tax (Pre-mixed drinks). Fail.
Alcohol tax. Fail.
Fat food tax. (Will) Fail.
Carbon tax. (Will) Fail.
But they have raised massive revenues for Govn’t.
========================================
I submit that the purpose of the taxes isn’t really to eliminate those perceived vices, but primarily to raise tax revenue. If they eliminated the vices, then the revenue would disappear. That can’t be the purpose!
Actually, I loved the rationing idea floated earlier. Take aways the car keys of every 16-21 year old and tell them its to fight climate change. In very short order we’ll have saved a whole generation from this madness. Tell an 18 year old he can’t drive anymore because of his carbon emissions and he’ll become sceptical so fast…
First day of Cancun follows the coldest night in the UK Midlands for 134 years.
Isn’t it funny that the UK was the first country to surrender to the AGW nuttiness and is punished this way by Mother Nature?
http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/snow-set-coldest-November-night-134-years/article-2947337-detail/article.html
@johanna says:
November 30, 2010 at 8:30 am
Thanks for the link, curiousgeorge. Have added it to my modest collection of fine c&w. Nothing to do with WUWT, however. Will now read subsequent posts.
You’re welcome. There are a great many C&W songs that assault nonsense like AGW, stupid politician tricks, and other forms of group think. Country folks generally don’t put up with infringements on their freedoms and make it known thru our music. You might also be interested in Pandora radio (on the net) customizable by genre.
[ Note: I swapped angle brackets for the square braces in your italics marker. It’s < i > – MOD]
Perhaps the scientists and politicians who have caught flights to Cancun should set an example. Next time a global warming conference is arranged in an exotic location they can try getting there without creating more than a tiny carbon footprint. Thor Heyerdahl sailed to Polynesia on a balsa wood raft and later crossed the Atlantic in a boat made from reeds so it should be perfectly possible.
Of course they might not all make it but in that case they would be martyrs to their beliefs.
Who the heck elected them emperors of the world?
Did someone dissolve all sovereign national borders when we weren’t looking???
Trying to impose your will on other nations used to be an act of war…
I agree. It’s time to start making serious cuts.
– Take away all personal jets.
– Only one vehicle allowed per household.
– Only one house allowed per family.
– Downsize one’s homestead to no larger than 1000 sq ft.
– Cut out all trips to the massage therapist.
– No more being chauffered around in the back of a gas-guzzling limousine whilst surfing the web on your energy consuming laptop computer.
– No more jetsetting vacations to such places as Copenhagen and Cancun.
– Reduce food consumption to WW2 sized ration proportions.
– Remove all excess clothing in closets to WW2 standards (aka 2 pairs of pants, socks, unmentionables, practical shoes, etc). Yes, that means the custom $5000 Hugo Boss suits too.
– No more 15 ft Christmas trees with 5000 lights on them.
Okay, now that we’ve taken care of Al Gore, who wants to be next ?
“Power Grab says:
November 30, 2010 at 11:38 am”
That’s exactly the point. I am however totally in awe of the fact that supporters of AGW and carbon taxes can’t quite make the same connection even when politicians talk of “prices on carbon”, ETS and CPRS etc etc…
“Patrick Davis says:
Already installed in many countries. Australia is also pushing for smart meters, while power costs are rising exponetially at this time. The Australian Govn’t is also pushing for an internet information filter – designed to protect our children. What the minister fails to understand that “tech savvy” crimials know how to get around these things.”
I’ve got a ‘smart meter’ but no ‘smart appliances’. The most that could be done is to shift me onto my UPS boxes and / or backup generator 😉
BTW, secure tunneling isn’t very hard at all; and most anyone can do it. It’s not just for ‘criminals’ either. Lots of “tech savvy” folks want their stuff to be private:
http://www.stunnel.org/ for the GNU / Open Source version.
You can even get it prepackaged for Windows boxes if you like:
http://www.stunnel.org/download/binaries.html
So folks who think they are “in power” and “have control” can do most anything they like to “limit access” and a whole bunch of us “tech savvy” folks will just flow around them…
(How it works is pretty simple. You make a ‘secure tunnel’ to another person. They can be in the same country, or not. Peer to peer stuff flows between you two privately. “Blocked” stuff just flows from the person who isn’t blocked into the ‘intranet’ to the folks who are ‘blocked’. You need someone in the group who knows how to set up DNS servers / proxy servers / etc. if you go the shared portal route.)
If you have trouble setting it up, find a 14 year old kid to help you 😉
BTW, I’ve used such private tunnels to set up secure links between corporate offices; to protect corporate private data from public view. It’s a very common technique in business to use VPN (Virtual Private Networks) in this way.
Freedom, it’s not just for criminals anymore …
Curiousgeorge says:
November 29, 2010 at 7:18 pm
>… From that sample I’d estimate that there are upwards of 10,000 firearms, with appropriate ammo, within a 4 mile radius of my house . Crime is non-existent, btw.
An armed society is a polite society.
“E.M.Smith says:
November 30, 2010 at 6:01 pm”
Agree with what you say however, there are too many people who swallow, hook, line and sinker, Govn’t popaganda, “to save the children”. With the “internet filter”, anyone who knows knows how to get around these restrictions can do, easily.
johanna says:s
The most ludicrous example is the so-called greenies who want today’s organic fresh pulled carrots delivered to their homes. A more inefficient, expensive and transport intensive mechanism could hardly be devised. But hey, it is all about Tarqin and Samantha (won’t anyone think of The Children?).
Well, the US Senate just passed the “Food Safety Bill” that will make “organic” growing and selling very much harder:
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/grow-a-tomato-go-to-prison/
It also grants the Homeland Security Department (aka TSA) the right to come grope your tomatoes and animals in your garden whenever they feel the need to ‘pat a tomato’…
It will be interesting to watch the collision between the “organic” green folks and the police state they have asked to be built…
I don’t think that WUWT is about politics, directly. But I hope it keeps deflating political balloons based on bogus science.
Compared to many posters, I am practically a communist. Please don’t categorise people in terms of Left or Right. It just doesn’t work these days.
The “right and left” just comes from France long ago. It’s basically a choice between fascist dictators and socialist republics, both using authoritarian controls. Missing from it is the US paradigm of a sovereign and free people. Yeah, you are right, right and left just don’t apply.
tj;
Wrong, to the roots.
P. Solar and others who focus on Green illogicalities are being suckers. That’s all incidental to the Statist control agenda, means to an end.
As for the Danish VAT fraud, it’s trivial and also incidental. The entire carbon(-dioxide) trading system is fraud, and properly allocating taxes on fraud is miniscule distraction.
P. Solar: if you are “almost a communist”, you are with the enemy. Your effort to misdirect is duly noted.
#We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when, ..#
Ric Werme says:
An armed society is a polite society.
Correct; when I was a kid in the 50’s and 60’s in a North Carolina small town (<500 population) doors were rarely locked. Everyone had guns, and you never heard of anyone being shot. Lots of rabbit, ducks and squirrels were but we had to eat.
All the statements are in line with the opinions of the Club of Rome: so the global alarmists starting with spread of fear will end up with the establishment of a repressive society and then we have to fight for our freedom again.