Dr. James Hansen arrested in coal protest at the White House, see the photo below.
From the Wonk Room » Around The World, Activists Arrested For Protesting Coal’s Destruction
More than 100 people were arrested today during Appalachia Rising, the largest national protest to end mountaintop removal (MTR) coal mining. Arrests included Appalachian residents; retired coal miners; renowned climate scientist, James Hansen; and faith leaders. After a march from Freedom Plaza and a rally at Lafayette Park, more than 100 staged a sit-in in front of the White House to demand President Obama follow his own science and end mountaintop mining.
“The science is clear, mountaintop removal destroys historic mountain ranges, poisons water supplies and pollutes the air with coal and rock dust,” said renowned climate scientist James Hansen, who was arrested in today’s protest at the White House. “Mountaintop removal, providing only a small fraction of our energy, can and should be abolished. The time for half measures and caving in to polluting industries must end.”
Here’s our buddy Jimbo, looking dapper in a fedora, tie, dockers, and cuffs:
Jimbo’s starting a rap sheet:
June 23, 2009 Dr. James Hansen of NASA GISS arrested
James Hansen and unidentified woman under arrest by WV state trooper. Photo credit: Antrim Caskey, Rainforest Action Network Field Photography
I wonder if he still thinks the west side highway will be underwater due to sea level rise in 20 years?
And as an added bonus, from the Climate is not Weather except when we say it is Department, the Wonk Room has a link to this story:
Meanwhile, Los Angeles hit an all-time record 113°…
h/t to Tom Nelson and WUWT reader Ron de Haan
Never though I would agree with Hansen. Good on you Jim. Murray
For though read thought.
He should be deported.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy!
Isn’t there some kind of “morals” clause in NASA contracts that forbids repeat convicts from serving or getting contracts?
Wait, wasn’t yesterday a work day? A national holiday I missed, perhaps?
If not, I trust Hansen booked a couple of days vacation to get arrested.
When I worked for the government many years ago an arrest like this would have resulted in my being fired. I would have expected it, and I would have deserved it.
My how things seem to have changed.
It’s interesting that CO2 itself is apparently no longer a big issue with Hansen.
Where is “LA” measured? LAX? How big was aviation back in 1877, when this series began according to the article?
E.M.Smith says:
September 28, 2010 at 10:46 am
Isn’t there some kind of “morals” clause in NASA contracts that forbids repeat convicts from serving or getting contracts?
I recommend short editorial by Paul Craig Roberts (former R. Reagan adviser):
The Collapse of Western Morality
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21158
(…) Americans will be the first people sent straight to Hell while thinking that they are the salt of the earth. (…)
Regards
…I’d like to see Hansen try that stunt in China!
However, I agree, mountaintop clearing is nasty business. We should really push for more natural gas production. With all the new sources & fields, natural gas is an energy winner in the US.
Hansen and his ilk protested US nuclear development, and now they weep *BOO HOO HOO!* for more nukes to offset GHG. Be careful what you wish for, Doc.
I’m just puzzled by the fact that there is no person above this clown, who can stop him from dragging NASA ( once fine organisation) like dirty rag through a pile of sh$$t.
LOL!!!
I would call these guys, obviously, not tea-baggers but POT-SMOKERS
What is it the NGO behind?
Arrested for demonstrating, wuwt?
I think it is outrageous and everyone, no matter what view they have on agw, should support Hansen and his/our right to freedom of speech.
Arrested for demonstrating, this is USA not China?
They have to put the mountains back together according with EPA statutes, so this is a red herring. Rock dust??? Pulleeeaze. He is trying to redeem himself after all the egg-in-face lying. Don’t fall for this, good people. They will probably show a crippled eagle at the bottom of a scree fall, claiming it is mining, even though it may have been crippled by a windmill.
I wonder if the DA can add on fraud charges similar to M. Mann in Virginia?
I wonder, do you think that NASA GISS has a charge number set up so that Jimbo can properly annotate his time sheet and get paid for his political activism and subsequent incarceration?
Przemysław Pawełczyk says:
September 28, 2010 at 10:53 am
I said, a few days ago.“Chaos is the ANTI-ETHOS of the ideologists”, this is why they fear ORDER in the universe, laws which govern it, and this is why they reject the traditional symbols which represent those universal laws, like the symbol of the CROSS at schools. This drives them really MAD.
We are already at the Armageddon field, in the battle against evil; that is why we have congregated here, at WUWT, many just intuitively joining the right side.
Regardless of his AGW views I fully support him on this one.
Someone please find a time machine and send these hippies back to the sixties (1860’s would be fine).
Djozar says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:31 am
1860?, then to the FAR-WEST…..they will welcome them with tar and feathers!
Good article that you linked to PP.
Good man Hansen: IMO he deserves a Nobel.
While I despise the destruction of whole watershed ecosystems with this mining method (if you can call it that) I really don’t think I’d want Hansen or any of the global warming crowd to ride in and steal the issue to “CO2”. Go do your own protest Hansen! This is a real environmental issue.
björn they weren’t arrested for protesting or for what they were saying.
“Protesters were arrested after they refused orders from Law Enforcement to leave the sidewalk on Pennsylvania Avenue. A few were charged with crossing a police line.”
Apparently they were obstructing the sidewalk and enterance to the White House. Also obviously they knew what they were doing because what good is a protest where no one is arrested. You need those arrests to get your story in the paper. I am sure the protesters would have keep pushing the envelope until they got arrested, it was their goal to get arrested.
Do you get arrested for protesting in the USA? I understood arrest was for doing something against a law. Either he was arrested illegally or he was committing an offence while protesting. The latter makes him look like some kind of beligerant nut.
In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, “what a maroon!”. Hansen needs to seek treatment for his drama queenery. Back when I worked for the feds, this would have gotten me fired.
ot but arctic ice is really picking up!
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php
Non-DMI seem to be trying to hide again…LOL
Hey, they are on the right track:
So we can hope that wind mills and PV fields are obsolete now?
If he’s willing to break the law in order to save the world, would he not also be willing to fudge data in order to save the world?
Why was he arrested?
Every time I see a picture of Jim Hansen or hear him referenced, I’m reminded of one of the spokesmen for the Turbo Entabulator: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjXTOlsE8k0
At this point, the Turbo Entabulator spokesmen have more credibility than Jim Hansen does as a climate scientist.
I agree with him on this issue. I also agree with him regarding our need for nuclear power.
He has a right to voice his opinion and to demonstrate on the subject. Free country and all that. And come on, folks, do you really think he *didn’t* take vacation to do this? Really? He may be weird, but the last thing anyone can accuse him of is being stupid. Also, last time I checked, he’s a natural-born American citizen, so deporting him isn’t really an option, is it?
I believe he is, and has always been, seriously off the rails regarding CO2 and its role in climate… in fact, his logic is fatally flawed with regard to that.
Good on the USA – keep those shackles on the man. A gag too and somebody stamp on that silly hat he wears.
He should have been arrested for lying in an English Court. His hour long [Kingsnorth Power Station] testimony was a travesty of the truth and his obsession with coal/carbon and his extreme views about [the myth] of climate catastrophe make NASA look like a bunch of amateurs by association. I know NASA is not but from over here [UK] Hansen and NASA are one.
Eviron whack jobs. Where, pray tell, will the people get their electricity? Or does any of them really care as long as they have theirs? For those making the snap judgment supporting the good doctor while he demonstrates his obvious bias and activism, you people should really read up on “mountain top removal”. You should also understand this twit represents an arm of a federal agency.
Holy carp.
Going to the link about his west side highway prediction.
That’s the cafe from Seinfeld on the 1st floor of his building.
REPLY: Yes, yes it is. Maybe you missed this?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/21/nasa-giss-a-division-of-vandelay-industries/
– Anthony
As much as I abhor this man, I support his right to protest (and knowingly get arrested) for whatever his beef is.
Having said that, surely it’s plain to see that the most important temperature data set is in the hands of an activist. This must change.
As MikeN says, we dont know why Jim Hansen was arrested. If, for example, there was a court order outlawing the protest he might be guilty of contempt of court. Until we know the details, we cannot make a judgement.
Ref – E.M.Smith says:
September 28, 2010 at 10:46 am
“Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy! Isn’t there some kind of “morals” clause in NASA contracts that forbids repeat convicts from serving or getting contracts?”
_________________________
I think you’re right. By jimbo, I think you’re right once again! And look at his hat, AND those long sleeves on that shirt, AND a tie too, AND extra LONG pants, AND nice thick shoes AND socks – not any of that short, short, light, light, see-thru, keep-ya-cool Global Warming stuff. Ya think he knows something he’s not telling? Ya think it might mean we’re heading into one of those super cell deep freeze falls and an ice age, grab yer socks, no-holds-barred winter? Somthin’ mighty fishy there! Mighty fishy! Can’t ya just smell it?
PS: On the demonstration he stumbeled into on his way to advise and consent to the WH about the end of life as we know it, or whatever, I think those folks are right. Let’s buy some Chinese coal as long as they’re still taking our funny money.
“The time for half measures and caving in to polluting industries must end.”
So we should stop caving in to “Climate Scientists” who pollute the media with questionable “science” and illegal tactics? OK.
For those who asked:
Washington (CNN) — More than 100 people protesting mountain-top removal coal mining were arrested Monday outside the White House for failing to obey an order to disperse, the U.S. Park Service said.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/09/27/white.house.protest/
If he spent a considerable amount of time also advocating a viable option for our energy needs (i.e. nuclear) then I fully support Hansen on this. Mountaintop coal mining is a dangerous and ecologically devastating practice.
I don’t object to him taking part in protests or getting arrested for his actions again. I object to the fact that they keep letting him go.
He was not arrested for protesting, he was arrested for refusing to stop impeding traffic flow.
I still have yet to see any reason why he works for NASA. What is NASA, an organization full of people who get arrested because they can’t figure out how to protest legally in our country? Give me a break, I have protested numerous times without getting arrested. Its stunts like this that undermine his credibility, and I do believe that anyone who works for the Government and gets arrested should be fired on the spot for something this retarded.
In fact, I am still unsure why he wasn’t fired years ago. He is not a true government worker, he is a joke who goes around on crusades..
Mountain top removal sounds pretty drastic but isn’t that big a deal.
If you have ever been to Appalachia which is pretty much the only place where it is practiced you will have noticed the extreme shortage of level ground. By pushing the tips of ridges over on to the uppermost bit of the valley next to or between them you can create a reasonable area of flat ground. At times because flat land is rare in Appalachia you find supermarkets and other such development takes place on it.
Otherwise which is most often it is replanted with trees and/or grassed. There is no ecosystem destruction. The material involved is generally inert sandstone or shale and after replanting the ground is not significanrly different from the rest of Appalachian land and will soon be repopulated with exactly the same flora and fauna it had before.
Commonly the effects on the water quality are positive. Appalachia has a long and chequered mining history and removal commonly takes away residual coal left in old workings and removes any problems there may have been associated with it.
Even in Appalachia, the writ of the DOE runs and the irresponsible bad practice which was widespread in the 19th and early 20th century and gave the whole of this industry a bad name, has largely been stamped out.
Hansen has every right and as a concerned citizen the obligation to express is views. If that leads him to some form of protest or civil disobedience so be it. I have been a coal geologist and mine planner for many years. I do not fully agree with him and find many half truths and much misinformation coming from these advocates and advocacy groups. Hansen is quoted saying: “The science is clear, mountaintop removal destroys historic mountain ranges, poisons water supplies and pollutes the air with coal and rock dust,” said renowned climate scientist James Hansen, who was arrested in today’s protest at the White House. “Mountaintop removal, providing only a small fraction of our energy, can and should be abolished. The time for half measures and caving in to polluting industries must end.”
This statement is not totally untrue, it is shall we say, a little over the top. Credit is not often given to the miners who do a very good job of reclamation, for example. The dangers rock and coal dust, as well as waters supplies, can be real. They can also be mitigated and controlled.
“Arrests included…renowned climate scientist, James Hansen; and faith leaders.”
Redundant
björn says:
“I think it is outrageous and everyone, no matter what view they have on agw, should support Hansen and his/our right to freedom of speech. Arrested for demonstrating, this is USA not China?”
They were arrested at the White House. Since 9/11, the NO-GO zone around the White House is huge. Most likely, they wandered into it and were arrested for tresspassing, not protesting.
One of the largest elk herds in the US is thriving on land reclaimed from strip mines in Eastern KY .
[quote]R. Shearer says:
September 28, 2010 at 10:42 am
He should be deported.[/quote]
NO. …..thanks
“If he’s willing to break the law in order to save the world, would he not also be willing to fudge data in order to save the world?”
Exactly. This is why this seems to be a conflict of interest. He is in charge of the GISS temp data and he is an activist. He should decide which one he prefers to be, because it’s hard to sell me on GISS temp data when I know the man in charge of it is biased and has an agenda.
Silly rabbit, show us how to protest a volcano, like they kill the vegetation, wreck lungs, poison the water and coat everything in ash and mud.
Volcanic gases undergo a tremendous increase in volume when magma rises to the Earth’s surface and erupts. For example, consider what happens if one cubic meter of 900°C rhyolite magma containing five percent by weight of dissolved water were suddenly brought from depth to the surface. The one cubic meter of magma now would occupy a volume of 670 m3 as a mixture of water vapor and magma at atmospheric pressure (Sparks et. al., 1997)! The one meter cube at depth would increase to 8.75 m on each side at the surface. Such enormous expansion of volcanic gases, primarily water, is the main driving force of explosive eruptions.
The most abundant gas typically released into the atmosphere from volcanic systems is water vapor (H2O), followed by carbon dioxide (CO2) and sulfur dioxide (SO2). Volcanoes also release smaller amounts of others gases, including hydrogen sulfide (H2S), hydrogen (H2), carbon monoxide (CO), hydrogen chloride (HCL), hydrogen fluoride (HF), and helium (He).
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php
I might even join you. I officially protest Kliuchevskoi, Eyjafjallajökull, Chaiten, Redoubt, Shiveluch, Sarychev, Kasatochi, Okmok, Sinabung, Cleveland, Etna, Galeras and… there’s so many! I officially protest the 60 to 80 volcanoes erupting every year now and screwing everything up, when we used to get 50 or less.
He should retire and do the environmentalist thing full-time.
More than 100 people were arrested today during Appalachia Rising, the largest national protest to end mountaintop removal (MTR) coal mining.
I had more people than that attend my last backyard beerfest. We mostly protested the rising cost of energy and its consequent effect on beer prices.
“Mountaintop removal, providing only a small fraction of our energy, can and should be abolished. The time for half measures and caving in to polluting industries must end.”
I find it difficult to understand how this sort of environmental vandalism can go on in the 21st century. I must reluctantly way that I’m with James Hansen on this one. Whether a convicted Govt employee should indulge in this sort of thing is another matter- although I guess he is still entitled to free speech.
Tonyb
What a conundrum the progressives in power have:
On one side they have the powerful Green lobby wanting to shut down coal.
On the other side they have the huge contribution from the UMWA mine workers union pushing to keep union jobs.
They seem to be between a (Black) rock and a (Green) hard place
Aw, I cant say much, I used to do the same thing at the nuke testing site in NV:) Hansen has made it very clear he is against coal energy in any form, I dont know why this suprises anyone. Mountaintop clearing .. shame on them. So give us a working alternative… build some nukes. Or better still.. outfit every building and structure in our cities with wind and solar, suplimented by natural gas, hydro, or nuke locally and make areas responsible for their own power usage instead of killing the rest of us to keep the streetlights every two feet in Vegas on …
To top things off, these rude climate perturbers stopped puffing mostly little plumes now they’re belching serious VEI 3-4+
But protest at a volcano and you’ll get big hot rocks thrown at ya!
Djozar says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:31 am
Someone please find a time machine and send these hippies back to the sixties (1860′s would be fine).
#
How about Germany, a few years before WWII. They could be part of the first enviro-wacco movement.
I strongly suspect Hansen wants to be arrested. It adds to his resume as a concerned activist. I also strongly suspect his arrest is a heck of a lot different than your’s or mine would be. He probably gets a private jail cell & doesn’t have to share it with 300#, tattooed, Bubba. And In the morning we can hear the guard call out to him, “Well Mr. Hansen, will that be a latte or a cappuccino with your eggs benedict?”
How in the heck could NASA allow someone with such clear bias to head GISS?
Let’s think it over again: He’s seeking for a higher position in government! and that’s very probable for him to obtain it, something like a Climate Tsar or even a Secretary! . Could you imagine how could it be?.
That would justify to buy a lot of popcorn…to wait for the end of times!
I understand about the good Dr’s rights as an American to protest – but as a very public figure, he trades on NASA’s reputation. Rightly or wrongly.
And conversely – raises questions about his commitment to impartiality when faced with ambiguous data. Can NASA absolutely warrant – beyond a shadow of a doubt – that his analysis is unimpeachable? If so – who is making that call?
Btw – would he rather see the miners go underground ?
Just askin….
That’s (at least) twice Hansen has been arrested at protests.
Don’t we have a “three strikes and you’re out” law? In any case I hope the judge tells him if he’s arrested again they’ll lock his ass up and throw away the key.
Ahhh, the old evil of the day syndrome.
Now it is MTR as evil, tomorrow it will be nuclear as evil (again), after that having babies will be evil (again) , then cooling of the earth will be evil (again), by that time old CO2 will be evil (again) . . . . and somewhere along the way solar/wind will get their chance at evilness.
Next gov’t funded NASA study will answer the question, “How many
angelsevils can dance on the head of a pin?” Hansen as study leader? Sure, why not. He may have some additional moments while in jail waiting bail.John
I happen to know the deputy chief of the Park Police who is responsible for removing protesters from the White House. Great guy. Good stories. It seems that it happens pretty routinely. I don’t know the exact frequency, but it sounds like at least weekly.
People like to chain themselves to the fences. The Park Police come and remove them.
Hansen should not be in charge of GISS temperature records because he is so hyper partisan regarding global warming. In fact, climate scientists should not be in charge of the GISS temperature sensor network and post processing. The engineers who do this work need to be dispassionate about climate science and just focused on doing a good job of collecting temperatures. This whole post normal science thing is an abomination.
Having said that, I can understand the argument re: chopping off the tops of mountains. Why do it when there is so much coal available elsewhere in the USA? For that matter, why not construct more nuclear power plants to generate electricity?
Re: why he was arrested, the whole point was to get arrested to get more media coverage. It is a time honored ritual in the USA by now. The demonstrators do the bare minimum necessary to get arrested and the police try to handle them as gently as possible. If the demonstrators don’t get arrested then there is no publicity (so the demonstration was a waste of time from the demonstrators’ perspective).
Make no mistake; this is nothing more than an unholy alliance between a legitimate environmental concern, MTR, and a fictional one – the ever-morphing non-falsifiable CAGW/CC/CD construct. The very fact that Hansen was there proves this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/liz-butler/appalachia-is-rising-up-a_b_737872.html
“The climate movement can learn a lot from how these anti-MTR activists and groups work together to take a hard stand against Dirty Coal.
This weekend, those alliances come together in Washington, D.C. for Appalachia Rising!, billed as “a national response to the unmitigated destruction of Appalachia’s mountains, air and water through mountaintop removal coal mining.” The two-day conference this weekend will bring together scores of groups and speakers to discuss mountaintop removal and share stories, followed by a day of action that includes a rally and march in downtown D.C. on Monday, September 27, and a day of lobbying Congress on Tuesday.”
Hansen’s concern here is a false one. MTR is simply a convenient wagon to hitch his anti-C02, anti-coal circus act to.
For the record he is no relation. :o)
Yup, completely missed it.
Enneagram says:
September 28, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Let’s think it over again: He’s seeking for a higher position in government! and that’s very probable for him to obtain it, something like a Climate Tsar or even a Secretary! . Could you imagine how could it be?.
That would justify to buy a lot of popcorn…to wait for the end of times!
=====
Reply = We already have on socialist Climate Tsar! Please see:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/12/obama-climate-czar-has-socialist-ties/
Based upon his past writings, I wonder if he wouldn’t hold out for an even higher position, like Commisar of the Directorate of Social De-Engineering? He could team up with his old chums like Paul Erlich and have some REAL fun! No-child-per-family policy etc.
————-
Dave Springer,
For ideological environmentalists, it is more likely that they have a policy of three-strikes-and-you-are-in. In other words, you get arrested 3 times at 3 different environmental protests and you get their merit badge and they issue you slick looking environmental credentials.
John
He has plenty of time to rally, as he has a computer model manufacturing DATA for the fools to believe.
I’m not sure this story has anything to do with weather, it’s a man protesting about a method of mining which I can see has downsides………
CRS, Dr.P.H. says:
September 28, 2010 at 2:15 pm
I knew that. What I meant is that perhaps HE feels himself more competent for such a position.
[snip] REPLY: Your references to things that happened in WWII related to Dr. Hansen’s current issues won’t be tolerated here. Stop it. Final warning, you’ve been snipped a few times for crass comments, and even though we may share certain views on climate science I won’t tolerate this sort of juvenile stuff anymore. – Anthony
Doesn’t this guy ever go to work? Most of the scientists I know have barely enough time to eat, let alone wander down to the White House and bellow slogans through a megaphone.
He has the right to protest; he does not have the right to do so while on taxpayer’s time. James Hansen once claimed the Bush administration was silencing him when, in fact, the Bush administration told him to stop making personal speeches on taxpayer time. This was during the Bush/Kerry election. The Bush administration never tried to tell him to stop wasting taxpayer money again.
I agree mountain top removal is a bad thing. But there are proper and improper ways of protesting. Sit-ins at the White House are never proper. Being an activist on taxpayer’s time is also never proper.
While this has nothing to do with weather, it does show the gross abuse of money that comes from the greenies. How many other people are allowed to further their personal agenda while on taxpayer time? How much time does James Hansen waste planning to attend such events? Does he plan such events at home? Does he use his vacation days to attend such events? How successful would all the AGW scaremongering be if it didn’t have all this money? Money from taxpayers paying a person to do a job but that person is really doing something else, money from government subsidies, and money from special interests.
The real question is why is the documented abuse of my tax money being allowed to continue?
For those of you who like such things, here’s the write up in our local paper of the Newcastle protest (see photo in Anthony’s post above):
http://www.theherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/activists-shut-down-newcastle-coal-exports/1952319.aspx
The comments are interesting since our area is strongly unionised and left wing (very safe Australian Labor Party seats generally), but also a big coal mining area. The ALP’s two biggest local wings are progessive leftists who are AGW supporters and unionists who are coal miners.
My local representative is Mr Greg Combet, ex (coal mining) union boss who is now our new national Minister for Climate Change. I will be watching with interest how he manages to walk between these incompatible positions.
Remember this from one of Hansen’s colleagues at NASA:
Yep, he sure did and is still doing so. I suspect that there is something in his terms of employment that forbids committing arrestable offences, advocacy and saying whatever you like while being paid from the public purse. There are taxpayers who are sceptics too.
Doesn’t this Hansen bloke have a day job? I’d hate to think I’m paying his salary.
Love the hat.
(James Hansen as Freddy!)
Hmm, definite mix up of professional ethics (or lack thereof) with protesting about environmental issues. Hansen should have the professional integrity to quit his job. He is not an academic with tenure talking on his area of expertise to the public; he is a civil servant whose job pure and simple is to focus on GISS – doing anything else is an insult to the tax paying public and an insult to the integrity of NASA; an organization for whom I used to have a lot of respect, but this Guy single handedly is making me really wonder if that respect is misplaced.
Anybody got contacts on the funding committees from which NASA GISS gets its money and remit? They need to be shown what they are actually funding at the end of the day… Also do FOI’s operate in this domain? Be interesting to the see the time sheets from his previous outings.
He reminds me of Geoffrey Lewis (the actor).
He’s trying to raise his fallen star.
I can’t see mountaintop removal when longwalling and other drift mining would be far more palatable to everyone.
If the miners are for stopping it, the nation & lawmakers should be listening.
Coal is important, but so are the longevity of the miner’s jobs and the environment.
Just don’t listen to Hansen.
If his detention continues for a month, he has to miss a big ceremony scheduled on 27 October:
http://www.af-info.or.jp/blog/b-info_en/2010-blue-planet-prize-commemorative-lecture.html
when he is to be awarded with about $ 600,000 by a Japanese company.
I do believe that in most, if not all governmental job descriptions and standards is a provision that you must uphold the law. That is, you may be subject to termination for violating public laws, especially when done intentionally.
Anybody have a contract similar to Hansen’s that could be reviewed? I’ll be happy to sign a complaint.
Protest at the Whitehouse?!?
I believe in every citizen’s right to freely criticize the government and the right to freedom of peaceable assembly, but protest at the Whitehouse?!? Seems kind of wimpy if you ask me. Not a lump of coal in sight there. You need to chain yourself to a drag line at a mine for some real protesting cred.
So he was arrested for what, “Protesting With Intent To Wimp”?
Jackstraw writes:
What a conundrum the progressives in power have:
“On one side they have the powerful Green lobby wanting to shut down coal.
On the other side they have the huge contribution from the UMWA mine workers union pushing to keep union jobs.”
Yes, and brilliant James might just have caused the election of a Republican senator in West Virginia. James is beyond rational self-control. I bet he gets canned.
There’s no shortage of “mountain” tops, and there’s surely no shortage of rocks. Whatever local eco system, which could conceivably be displaced by this type of mining, will be supplanted by a new local eco-system just like the mountains themselves replaced the previous terrain. People will be outraged by someone taking off a mountain top, but won’t even think twice about a huge quarry or open pit mine. They’re all just ways of excavating rock.
Why am I not surprised to see Hansen getting arrested?
Drilling holes into the ground is better than open pit mining? Okay. If Hansen is really wired to protest against such a practice let him put his livelihood where his mouth is (after he gets his head out of his nether parts): since it is my opinion he will soon be for want of a job, let him work in a drilled mine for a while. Then let him drive one of those big rigs in an open pit. Tell him that he then has his choice of these two positions. If he takes the open pit job, he should be tarred and feathered. If he takes the drilled mine job, he can have it.
Put Americans back to work, fire Hansen. Now that’s a stimulus package I would vote for.
As a young man in high school and college, I worked in the strip mines during the summers. The men who worked there were good people, hard working, honest, dependable. Solid Americans. Many WWII and Korean War veterans. I doubt things have changed over time. I wonder what these miners would think if they encountered environmental wackos protesting to eliminate their livelihoods? How would you feel if some socialist nut protested to scrap your job?
I am a mining engineer and have designed mountaintop removal (MTR) projects as well as other projects running the gamut of surface coal mining methods not to mention metals, tar sands . I have been disheartened by the several comments from recognizable commenters buying into Hansen’s unsupportable protestations of the harmful effects of MTR. Hansen I can deal with – the first technical book published by printing press – De Re Metallica (Agricola, 1556)- warned about city types fussing over the blasphemous raping of goddess Gaia by means of mining (if not in so many words). Agricola noted that fortunately mining tends to occur in mountainous territory at a distance from the city and its nervous inhabitants. So anyhow Hansen is not a new phenomenon. But now the environmentalist is coming to the mountain. We don’t need to buy him a ticket.
Mining in general is the highest possible use for land – more wealth per unit area is created through mining than any other economic activity (oil is technically a rock). Other uses are not even close. So mining causes less disturbance to the environment per unit benefit than other activities. Of course if you figure that humans are a cancer that should be extirpated from Gaia’s longsuffering body maybe economic benefits are moot. Maybe the feminists are right- men just want to mess with goddess’ bodies!
But as to MTR, it arose in Appalachia as a lower impact mining method that would recover all the resource in a hill instead of the earlier contour mining that followed the outcrop around a hill, effectively sterilizing the resource in the center of the hill – rendering it uneconomic to mine for all time. So MTR is actually an example of good stewardship of resources. The coal in the center of the hill may be mined through even though uneconomic in order to recover the whole resource. Believe me that mining professionals and particularly engineers work for the greatest efficiency and the least harm – actually the fun is taking an ostensible harm and turning it into a benefit. Like the end result of MTR which creates a usable plateau or flatland in hilly areas where level ground is frequently rare and valuable. Terraforming anyone? In distinct opposition to the artsci enviro types (take a bow, Hansen) engineers work with reality and are responsible for their results.
As to the allegation of water contamination, MTR waste rock is typically placed in the head of a valley which has been carefully prepared to control water through drains and deflection and impermeable layers of clay. This is to prevent the formation of acid mine drainage (AMD) caused when water and oxygen reach sulphur bearing rock,which it frequently does in Appalachia. Mining project approvals can include cleanup of adjacent historical mining works to modern standards and eliminate any AMD- much more feasible when you’ve got the equipment there and in the course of a long term project that actually makes money. This stuff is engineered and regulated by people who are able and who care but what is more, carry the responsibility. Good results in the real world is the only standard. Reclamation and control of potential environmental risks is all performed to plans drawn up and approved well in advance of mining operations. When screwups happen they are fixed. All in the light of public scrutiny. But Hansen says MTR is destroying the environment.
I have described a bit of how the real world works when scientists engineers and business join to get stuff done in mining. It is similar in other fields of endeavour. It works and it is better than we think. Why should Hansen’s cries of disaster be given such a hearing here when he has already been so thoroughly exposed in the CAGW debacle?
There is one unplanned benefit of environmentalism for mining – the creation of environment departments has brought more girls to the mining camps!
“Arrests included… renowned climate scientist, James Hansen; and faith leaders.”
I thought Hansen was a faith leader.
Sigh, since mining is one of my sub-specialities, thought I would chime in on mining in general, and on mountain-top mining. Basically, for any mine, the plan of mining has to include: where waste is going to go (for the environment’s benefit), how product is going to leave (without comtamination), how workers are going to be protected, and lastly a reclamation plan that will make sure the environment is as good as it was before the mine was there if not better. (Just a simple explanation, its obviously more complicated then that.)
In most cases, the area around the mine is made better then it was prior to the mine. Even with strip mining this is the case with our laws on the books. I do not claim any mining method is right or wrong in general, just that our federal government is supposed to make sure the plans are followed correctly through the various agency’s and to make sure the reclamation plans are followed through with correctly. (and to make sure the land is made at LEAST as good as it was prior to the mine going in..)
This means that unless you have emotional attachement to the way the land looked prior to the mine existing, any environmentalist should love having a mine in their area. For this type of mining, this allows more efficient development which HELLO means that less land will be used overall for development which saves MORE land for other uses including wildlife. Sometimes this land is set aside as nature preserves as well. It really depends on who owns the land, because with mining a lot of companies lease the land in the first place and the original owners get the land back anyway, so whatever happens to the land after the fact is up to the land-owner (not the evil mining company.) Again, this is just a side-note, and it really depends on the company. But for the most part, the environement is improved with better water control, and better ecological effects factored into the reclamation plans.
The fact that this is being protested by “one of the largest environmentalists in our country” just goes to show how out of touch with reality this man really is. I did not read anything online that stated what he has against this type of mining except for environmental harm which he is vague on and like I said just sounds emotional. If there is an actual environmental issue, I would be happy to hear it addressed…
There are mistakes made, do not get me wrong. But like I said, I am not sure what this type of mining does that other types do not…its just an emotional attachement which is stricly speaking…not something that really makes sense to me, just like the entire emotional global warming argument. Not to distract from the article, but I just thought it might be better to make it clear what I thought: that man can do good to the environment without hugging trees and otherwise becoming a hunter-gatherer.
NASA’s Dr Hansen needs to change his focus and start doing outreach to Muslims!
By Shamokin, Pennsylvania is what’s often said to be the world’s largest man-made mountain, a culm bank, specifically the Glen Burn Colliery Cameron Culm Bank (pictures). As such happens with them, assorted flora and fauna have populated it, I’ve driven by and seen trees and deer on the top and sides.
And now it’s going away. Technology has made the burning of this mix of fine coal bits and shale efficient and profitable, so now the mountain of colliery waste is getting surface mined. I’ve seen the little tiny dump trucks and earth movers on the top and moving along the sides, working it down.
This is now an established habitat, nature has been claiming it as its own. In time it’d just be a normal part of the environment.
So who’s protesting the removal of that mountaintop?
As much as I generally detest James Hansen for capitalizing on the CAGW scam…all while getting his paycheck from the taxpayer…I agree with him on this one.
Mountain-top removal is flat immoral.
I can’t believe there is something I agree with him on….
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Bruce Cobb says:
September 28, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Hansen’s concern here is a false one. MTR is simply a convenient wagon to hitch his anti-C02, anti-coal circus act to.
=====================================
Bingo.
-Chris
Ben D. says:
September 28, 2010 at 7:19 pm
There are mistakes made, do not get me wrong. But like I said, I am not sure what this type of mining does that other types do not…its just an emotional attachement which is stricly speaking…not something that really makes sense to me, just like the entire emotional global warming argument.
==============================
Ben, I appreciate your expertise and common sense approach on this site.
Will have to disagree with you here, however, because not only is the flora and fauna being altered [as what happens, say, in development], but the 300 million year old geology is being radically altered as well.
That is not an emotional argument.
And I understand that we blast our way through mountains for tunnels and on hillsides for freeways through mountain passes. Sometimes, for our species, it has to happen.
Those don’t really bother me, though.
But slicing off a mountain top, does.
Maybe when mining “damage” is not so visible [as in underground], or even replaceable [as in reforesting strip-mined operations], it is not as hard to take, maybe even beneficial.
But MTR just seems morally wrong.
To me, MTR is sort of the Appalachia equivalent…of to how the Chinese are strip-mining the global oceans of large sharks, after they have ruled the deep for nearly half a billion years.
[Hence my screen name].
I dunno. Gotta choose my battles, I suppose.
I agree with Hansen for once, on this one, though I don’t agree with him for the reasons that his protests are simply a cover-up for his anti-coal agenda.
Thanks for hearing me out.
-Chris
Couldnt agree more Dennis N
alan said on September 28, 2010 at 7:25 pm:
Has he protested the “mountaintop removals” by our troops in Afghanistan?
Old mines, old caves, both harboring known dangers to humans. What’s so wrong with people taking care of people-caused dangers to people?
😉
@savethesharks says:
The Appalachians were originally very high like the Himalayans and very likely were similar in appearance. Now, you will note, they are eroded into rounded nubs of a few thousand. Mountaintop removal might knock off the top 200 feet. Vegetation can quickly recover especially when aided by reclamation making the whole business almost invisible in say 10-20 years. This is just not a moral issue.
Hey, if the greenies manage to turn the clock back to 1875 how would they handle whale hunting? We’d need the whale oil for light because there wouldn’t be any oil.
Why is a public servant protesting or participating in any political activity an issue? In Australia, there is no problem with that. Public servants have the same right as any other citizen to take political actions. Is it different in the United States?
Further, has anyone considered that it is perhaps the data that has driven Dr Hansen to become an activist? In other words, that he sincerely believes the way he does *because *of the evidence that he has seen through his work?
He should be deported.
I think his organisation has some technology to expel him far enough, maybe to Mars to observe some climate change, or better, to Andromeda.
REPLY: FYI, this poster is no relation to me – Anthony
The guy needs some lessons on sense of style.
David Gould says:
September 28, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Further, has anyone considered that it is perhaps the data that has driven Dr Hansen to become an activist?
That’s his claim.
But it all depends on how you wish to perceive things. And is it real data he is looking at? I’ve spent a lot of my spare time over the last 3 years looking at data. I have found that everything happening in the climate over the last 100 years falls within the range of normal variability. But if you wanted to you could portray normal variability as disastrous occurrences.
Also, global warming predictions made from global warming hypothesis’ are not panning out. When a hypothesis doesn’t have supporting evidence in the real world the hypothesis must be discarded since it has no value.
———————————————-
Here’s some GISS data:
…renowned climate scientist, James Hansen; and faith leaders….
It seems they put “and faith leaders” in to create sympathy for coal protesters. The media is funny. They don’t want to support faith leaders who want Nativity Scenes left up at Christmas, or the 10 Commandments left up in court houses. But when it comes to left wing environmentalism they play the faith leaders card.
Amino Acids in Meteorites,
Simplest explanations are usually the best. There seems to be a clear cause and effect link between seeing data that indicates that the world is warming and becoming an activist to try and prevent that.
“A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, — a mere heart of stone.”
Charles Darwin
Anyone know how Hansen got to DC? Did he offset his trip with cheap carbon credits on the CCX? Did he walk? Did he ride his bicycle? Hypocrites like him and Algore should be exposed. Several years ago, a budding filmmaker did to Michael Moore what he did to Roger Smith to expose his hypocrisy. I would love to donate to some young filmmaker to do the same about Algore and James Hansen. Follow (stalk) them for six months to document their hypocrisy. It should be like taking candy from a baby.
And as an added bonus, from the Climate is not Weather except when we say it is Department, the Wonk Room has a link to this story:
Meanwhile, Los Angeles hit an all-time record 113°…
All of Springtime in California it was rainy and cold—i.e.—that was weather.
113° on one day—i.e.—that is climate—i.e.—Global Warming is happening.
😉
If “Jedi Knight” can become a religion, why not “Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming”?
Let’s set it up on the skeptic side. We’ll take the tax-exempt status, accept tax-deductible contributions to fund research. If he’s amenable, Anthony Watts can be hired for consultant work and serve as a source of equipment.
What’s wrong with a religion that researches its tenets and accepts it could disprove itself? Accept? Heck, we’ll be hoping for it!
☺
[REPLY – I find your lack of faith . . . disturbing.~ Evan]
David Gould says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:35 pm
Amino Acids in Meteorites,
Simplest explanations are usually the best. There seems to be a clear cause and effect link between seeing data that indicates that the world is warming and becoming an activist to try and prevent that.
I see that the world had warmed too. I didn’t miss that.
But the world doesn’t need to be saved from that since it is normal variation. It has happened before in the earth. That’s why I said “if you wanted to you could portray normal variability as disastrous occurrences”. It was warmer on earth 1000 years ago during the Medieval Warm Period. The Vikings didn’t run around like the world needed to be saved. They also didn’t have such awful taste in clothes.
Maybe James Hansen could take some tips from Steve McIntyre. 😉
David Gould says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:35 pm
….the world is warming and becoming an activist to try and prevent that.
I see you also believe it is possible to control the climate. Good luck with that.
Some make it sound like large portions of the Appalachian Range are being defaced. Of course, that isn’t what is happening. Also, is it better to get coal from caves where coal dust kills miners before their time?
I wonder if these same people have taken to time to think about how much the land where New York City is has been changed since the early 1600’s? I wonder if they think cities should also not be allowed to built and grow? I’m am pretty sure if you add up all the area that cities cover it’s far larger than all the mountaintop removal that’s been done. It all depends on how you want to portray things.
Coal is very low priced energy. People need it. I wish it could be freely mined. Instead it is demonized.
L.A. Times:
Southern California’s summer to end with a chill: It was the coldest in decades Farewell summer, we hardly knew ye!
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/09/las-summer-ends-with-a-chill-it-was-the-coldest-in-decades.html
For those doubting LA hit 113, if it didn’t it was awful close. I live a little east of LA in South El Monte and it was over 110 here without airports or other extra temp enhancers except lots of homes and light manufacturing.
Of course, the real story is that this is the FIRST TIME THIS SUMMER WE WERE OVER 100F!!!!! Normally we have a number of 100+ days and didn’t. LA was close to setting records for below normal days and how far below normal as was much of SoCal. At one point they were discussing LAX being 10F below normal!!
We only ran our air conditioner a couple of days before this hot flash where weeks would be the norm.
Is the lady his usual class of companions??
No mountaintop removal ? How about no coal-fired electricity generation. Period.
Amino Acids in Meteorites,
I understand that you do not believe in AGW. But if Dr Hansen has been convinced by the data that:
1.) AGW is happening;
2.) this is going to cause very bad things; and
3.) it can be prevented
it is surely it is reasonable for him to become an activist on this issue.
He may be wrong with 1, 2 or 3. But if that is where the data led him, then his actions are not unreasonable – indeed, they surely indicate a highly ethical individual who is trying to prevent suffering.
Thus, it is logical to assume that it is the data that he has seen – and, as you say, his interpretation of that data – that has led to him becoming an activist. It is the most sensible explanation.
James Hansen was charged with misdemeanor offenses for impeding traffic, obstructing law enforcement officers, and crossing police lines. In other words, Hansen is not just exercising his freedom of speech. Hansen went far beyond the right of free speech to deny other people their legal rights of free speech, association, personal security, freedom from intimidation, and more. He violated the law in order to impose his will and speech upon other people. Hansen is obligated to respect the same rights of other people and laws as everyone else, and his right to free speech is no excuse for his violations of the law and the rights of people with whom he disagrees.
James Hansen may become liable for termination of his Federal employment for misdemeanor convictions, and he is certainly liable for immediate removal in the event of his conviction for a felony crime.
See:
Other examples of loss of or disqualification for federal office or employment as a result of conviction or commission of a crime include:
$ removal from federal or District of Columbia office and ineligibility for employment by the United States or the District of Columbia for five years upon conviction under federal or state law of a felony for inciting, organizing, encouraging, or participating in, a riot or civil disorder or any offense committed in furtherance of, or while participating in, a riot or civil disorder (5 U.S.C. ‘ 7313);
FEDERAL STATUTES IMPOSING COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCES UPON CONVICTION
http://www.justice.gov/pardon/collateral_consequences.pdf
Political Activity and the Federal Employee
http://www.osc.gov/documents/hatchact/ha_fed.pdf
James hansen’s actions are highly unethical, coercive, and intimidating. His remarks calling for coal company managers to be treated as criminals could not be more tyrannical, unethical, and extremist. The ends do not justify the means.
D. Patterson,
If he honestly believes that the burning of fossil fuels is killing people and will kill more people, how is calling for the burning of fossil fuels to be made illegal unethical? In Western democracies, it is usual to criminalise the release of toxins by individuals and corporations.
D. Patterson,
So all Dr Hansen can be criticised for is choosing to risk his employment, a clean record, fines and (potentially) imprisonment for his principles. Hard to see anything unethical in that – unless you think civil disobedience is inherently unethical, which I do not.
Just shows how embittered, resentful and vindictive a highly qualified physicist becomes when his mathematical analysis of temperature statistics is proven to be faulty by an unemployed coal miner!
D.Gould
But if that is where the data led him, then his actions are not unreasonable – indeed, they surely indicate a highly ethical individual who is trying to prevent suffering.
Yes I believe that an INTERPRETATION of data played a small part in Hansen’s decisions to act illegally .
I believe also that a much larger part in the decision is a mental disorder called Jesus syndrome .
Definition of Jesus syndrom :
The combination of complexes and dogmatic teachings that create a pathetic personality process that makes the person feel they are ‘Jesus like’ in the way the world should view them and as they view themselves.
In any case that leads Hansen to act agressively, illegally and ultimately extremely intolerantly.
What he needs after his arrest is medical help and I really can’t understand why the NASA continues to employ an obviously deranged person.
As for the matter of mining methods, T.Kennedy and Ben D. explained what it is about.
It is absolutely certain that Hansen has no technical knowledge and no experience in mining methods and therefore his opinion is irrelevant .
I notice that some people’s religion forbids making holes in the ground and transforming curved surfaces in plane surfaces .
I have nothing against such absurd beliefs but then nobody is asking you to do holes in the ground .
Most people don’t share this religion and like T.Kennedy rationally explains , making holes in the ground and transforming surfaces is one of the most value added activities that brought us from the stone age to the technological civilisation .
David Gould says:
September 29, 2010 at 2:56 am
D. Patterson,
If he honestly believes that the burning of fossil fuels is killing people and will kill more people, how is calling for the burning of fossil fuels to be made illegal unethical?
Because it would kill literally millions, cold kills quick, mainly the poor. And you do not call that unethical?
Perhaps you are in need of a practical education by having James Hansen’s same actions used against you and your own personal family, just as James Hansen used against the coal miners and others. How would you like it if someone like James Hansen came to your place of work claiming it was in violation of their moral conscience and kept you from earning your income, caused you to lose your employment, caused you to lose forfeit your personal property despite your complying with the extant laws? How would you like it if he sat on the sidewalk in front of your driveway and refused to budge, even when your son the police officer had to forcibly remove him from your driveway? How would you like it if he declared you to be a war criminal deserving of the loss of your employment, your property, and your freedom because his moral conscience demanded action against your driving a fossil fueld vehicle? Where does it stop with you?
Tom Kennedy says:
September 28, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Thank you. Would like to see some before, during and after phpotos of some of these projects if you know of them.
Thanks
>> David Gould says:
September 29, 2010 at 1:18 am
Amino Acids in Meteorites,
I understand that you do not believe in AGW. But if Dr Hansen has been convinced by the data that:
1.) AGW is happening;
2.) this is going to cause very bad things; and
3.) it can be prevented
it is surely it is reasonable for him to become an activist on this issue. <<
In your opinion would it also not be 'reasonable' to fudge the data to make it look scarier in order to provoke action to prevent the 'very bad things' from happening?
How would that be any less justified than blocking and harrassing people on their way to their jobs?
Is there a three strikes and you’re out policy over there?[nope . . it’s mulligan city]
Shrug, if we were all as unethical as J. Hansen, we would sit outside his place of work and not budge and get arrested for not letting him work, but then again, I think that assumes he does any work in the first place…This is the same man that on a work day gets himself arrested for violating the rights of others in the name of activism.
As for mountain top mining versus other methods, all mining methods change the land, that is a given..the question is the viability of other options in poor areas (such as W. Va. Which I would argue have no other choice). This is not a rich state, and having someone telling them that they can not make a living is kind of above me I guess, not that I have any horse I am rooting for in mountain top mining. It could go away or expand and I wouldn’t lose any sleep or shed tears. But in the end, by eliminating one type of mining, you open up all other types of mining to the same issue on whether it should be allowed or not…and since its not based on environmental impact, but by what people feel…I am sure if you polled everyone they would have issues with every type of mining out there….
That is just my argument, if the mining is actually hurting the ecosystem, then lets discuss that, otherwise I don’t see an alternative. For moral reasons, I guess I just don’t take a stance since I see all types of reasons that people do not want mines around them, but they sure want all the benefits it entails. This is not meant to be insulting, its meant to make people think about mines in general. I hope no one takes offense, but overall I pretty much just say what I think, and if you have read any of my other posts, you would know that yes, I do that quite a bit.
This argument kind of reminded me of the other thread on the Australians losing their farm because of “smell” complaints. Many mines are not allowed to operate in rural areas of all places because of noise/smell issues….but that just goes to show, sometimes the pendelum of right and wrong swings too far one way or the other.
what a sad, sad individual.
David Gould says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:35 pm
“Simplest explanations are usually the best. There seems to be a clear cause and effect link between seeing data that indicates that the world is warming and becoming an activist to try and prevent that.”
——————————————–
Or it could be that Hansen is just a loon. Charlie Manson, Tim McVeigh, and Ted Kaczynski all thought that their observations compelled them to their respective extreme remedies. I’m not suggesting that Hansen is a terrorist. I’m only pointing out where your rationale can lead.
As far as integrity Hansen doesn’t seems to have much as he engages in crass political tactics. When his bosses object to his engaging in political activities while exploiting his position at NASA. He accuses them of censorship.
It is an interesting time for Hansen to protest mountain top surface mining. West Virginia (the state most concerned with mountain top mining) has a tight senatorial race underway right now. The Republican candidate appears to have crept ahead of the Democrat candidate. The Democrat senatorial candidate surely hates for Hansen to raise this issue right now because mountain top surface mining has a big impact on WV jobs. If the Republicans can win this race, it makes taking control of the senate a more realistic prospect. Most likely the Republicans support mountain top mining in WV.
kuhnkat says:
September 29, 2010 at 12:54 am
“Is the lady his usual class of companions??”
I don’t think that was his companion. She was too good looking – out of his league. Hansen reminds me of Booger in the movie “Revenge of the Nerds” only not so young, classy, and handsome.
Turboblocke says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:38 am
Yeah, if there was a “Disturbing the Peace Prize”, sure.
I concur with the opinion that Mr. Hansen has no special training, or insight by education and is incompetent to discuss mining methods by his technical background. All he is qualified to do is offer his non technical opinion as do all citizens.
But he is not qualified to offer any opinions by his technical training on climate or CAGW, either. His technical credentials are as an Astronomer, not a student of atmospheric physics, a climatologist or a meteorologist. His actual duties are to direct and serve as custodian and gatherer of historical weather data. With carefully constructed data controls, that weather data might be used for a purpose for which it was not collected. That second use is possible application to climate studies. To do so requires knowledge of databases, data sets, librarian duties, and archivist activities.
He has no such training, and it is easy to see that from admitted lack of care of the data sets; and the lack of controls during unrecorded alterations to those data sets.
That is a scandal.
It is a serious scandal for destroying the integrity of data so expensively accumulated. Mr. Hansen should not only be discharged, for such breaches, and possibly pay during work absences; but possibly prosecuted for professional malfeasance in office at NASA. If a medical doctor were so lax, he would most certainly be guilty of, and convicted of, medical malpractice.
In other words, he is totally unqualified, in what he does for NASA.
D Patterson,
If my job was indeed causing suffering to others, I would like to hear about it so I could investigate to determine if it was true. And if it was true, I would close my business. If it was false, then all the guy is doing is causing inconvenience and calling me a few names. And if he honestly believes what he is saying, then he is acting ethically.
Seriously, if you believed that your local business was acting in such a way as to endanger lives, wouldn’t you try to get them to stop? If you wouldn’t, that would surely make you unethical.
Tom_R,
It the problem is as serious as he believes, there would be no need to falsify data. And if the data is not telling him that it is serious, then there is no need for him to become an activist. So, no, that is not a very convincing argument that he is falsifying data.
Justa Joe,
Sure, he could be ‘a loon’. But that does not mean that he is not acting ethically. If someone honestly believed that torturing me into converting to Christianity was the only method available to save my soul from an eternity of suffering, they would be acting unethically if they did not torture me into converting. The thing is, I am not arguing that he is *correct* or *sane* (even though I believe that he is both). I am arguing against those who are claiming that he is acting unethically.
wayne,
I think that you are confusing errors of fact with errors of ethics.
It is perfectly possible to be wrong in your beliefs but to act ethically on those beliefs.
If I see a person about to kill another person and I act to prevent that, without realising that that would-be murderer was trying to prevent a massacre, I would have acted ethically, even though my actions led to the deaths of many.
OK; Hansen has actively chosen to break the law. It may be only a misdemeanor and as such it may be overlooked in his Federal employment status. That is; he may only receive an insufficient rating on his review.
As I understand it though especially when there are multiple willful misconducts of record, Hansen’s Federal security clearance should be immediately revoked. Someone actively and in full knowledge breaking the law can not be considered fully trustworthy. Since his position as a senior manager requires security clearance that also means that he would be reassigned to a lesser position that does not require clearance or placed on leave.
What I wonder, is after Hansen loses his security clearance, will he still get access to all of the raw code and data?
TedK,
Does his position as senior manager require a security clearance? I know plenty of senior managers in government service in Australia who have no security clearance. I looked on the NASA website, but have been unable to find any general employment conditions.
David Gould says:
“…I am not arguing that he is *correct* or *sane* (even though I believe that he is both). I am arguing against those who are claiming that he is acting unethically.”
—————————————-
In America we call what you’re doing, “trying to be cute.”
Hansen has made his ‘observations’ (check). His ‘observations’ have lead him to activism (check). The problem is his activism is in direct conflict of interest to his position at NASA. The fact that he exploits his govt position to further his activism along with numerous other questionable activities have caused people to consider him unethical (or a loon).
As a warmist one would think that you would want Hansen to leave NASA so that their is no appearance of impropriety with the NASA/GISS data. … Caesar’s wife must be above reproach
Justa Joe,
In my opinion, his activisim is not in direct conflict of interest to his position at NASA. Can you lay out how his activism is in direct conflict of interest? I have not been able to find his specific job description at NASA.
If I could be convinced that the reason people doubted the GISS data was because Hansen is an activist, then perhaps I could be convinced that he should leave.
As to being ‘cute’, if people made accusations that Hansen was acting unethically. I believe that I have demonstrated that those accusations are false.
David Gould says:
“Why is a public servant protesting or participating in any political activity an issue?”
David Gould — the same guy who argues that murdering people who don’t toe the green “carbon” agenda is funny — cries crocodile tears over the despicable James Hansen by deliberately misrepresenting what Hansen is doing: breaking the laws that the rest of us must follow, or else.
I can assure the clueless Mr Gould that if James Hansen knew for a fact that he would be promptly fired for his lawbreaking, we would not hear a peep out of him; not a murmur of protest. He is the same devious individual who “adjusts” the temperature record in order to show that the Earth’s completely normal climate is in the throes of runaway global warming.
Acting ethically often has personally unpleasant consequences. But James Hansen knows from experience, and no doubt from a wink and a nod from the current Administration, that he has nothing to fear from his lawbreaking.
Ethical behavior has nothing to do with Mr Hansen, and vice-versa. Risking losing something by standing up for one’s beliefs brings admiration. But Hansen risks absolutely nothing — rather, he becomes a hero to the descendants of the unwashed hippies of the 1960’s, while never having to worry about his next taxpayer-funded paycheck. He is not ethical, he is a tax-sucking government leech who thumbs his nose at society’s rules. He’s special, see?
Some folks certainly pick odious heroes.
Smokey,
I do not argue that murdering people is funny. You see, there is a very clear distinction between *actually murdering people* and *fiction*. Perhaps it is a distinction that you are not aware of – if that is the case, I take this opportunity to alert you to it. 🙂
Does anyone reading Gould’s illogical statement above think that he would be against “hate speech”?
No, of course not. It is obvious that Gould approves of hate speech — so long as it involves promoting the murder of those he disagrees with.
Smokey,
Can you point out the logical flaw for me so that I can correct my thinking?
This video *does not promote the murder of climate sceptics*. It is *satire*.
I thought ‘science’ required a cool dispassionate approach.
David Gould says:
September 30, 2010 at 4:30 pm
“In my opinion, his activisim is not in direct conflict of interest to his position at NASA. Can you lay out how his activism is in direct conflict of interest? I have not been able to find his specific job description at NASA.”
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Fortunately your opinion(s) don’t carry much weight. In the corporate world you’re advised to not even permit the appearance of conflict of interest. You’re advised to remove yourself from those situations even if there is no actual intent to do anything untoward. A person would have to be quite obtuse not to see an appearance or potential real conflict of interest In a man who presides over evaluation and disemination of the nation’s climate data having a vested partisan interest in presenting the data in a manner favorable to his activist cause. This may come as a big surprise to you , but it is very unusual in the USA for a highly placed govt. official to put the weight and reputuation of his department behind a partisan political cause. That type of activity is until now frowned upon.
“As to being ‘cute’, if people made accusations that Hansen was acting unethically. I believe that I have demonstrated that those accusations are false.”
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The only thing that you’ve demonstrated is your intent to dissemble… unsuccessfully.
Sadly. I have to agree with the doctor – removing mountain tops will impact badly on the ecology and should be stopped. As for coal fired power stations, wind doesn’t cut it, sunshine is not productive enough for most of the developed world (yet) and so we face a choice – cut back consumption or increase output.
Personally I think the answer lies in mixing both. More efficient use with more efficient appliances and intelligent consumption coupled with more efficient power generation and distribution. One should slow down growth in demand, the other reduce the need to rip out mountains…