NOTE: Updates have been posted below, including the tally.
I need your help, because they need your help. Please read this whole story and consider if you can help. WUWT readers may recall this story: Death of a Feedlot Operator …in which the anal-retentive government of West Australia has “licensed” a family farm out of operation due to some shonky science and arbitrary application of the “sniff test”. Yes that’s right, cattle farms smell, so do pig farms, as does any farm. But now it’s reason to shut one out due to baseless complaints from the local greens. And, it all started when Matt Thompson started doubting global warming and talking about it publicly.
I’ve never made a plea to the WUWT worldwide readership for help, I’m making one now to donate to these people to stave off eviction. If nothing else, do it to spite the government of Western Australia and the greens (Environmental Defender’s Office WA) that have turned farming into a “crime”. The real crime is that government listens to these hotheads. From Jo Nova’s website:
4 days notice! The Thompsons are served notice of eviction.
Will, Abbey, Janet, Luke, Matt and Kate on their farm. April 2010
From Agmates (and many emails), news comes that The National Bank served notice today that the Thompsons have to be off their property in four days.
This is a family with four young children, who ran a profitable business; they filled in every form and ticked every box. They have broken no laws, and there are no outstanding environmental notices, but yet, they came to Western Australia with their life savings and they are losing everything. (Note: Matt and Janet are from the USA, Hugo, Oklahoma – Anthony)
Don’t bring your investment dollars to Western Australia — not while the Department of the Environment effectively controls the state.
The Thompsons waited a full year to get Works Approval for a 15,000 head feedlot. After they had already committed the capital, the rules kept shifting. They discovered they’d need ongoing licenses as well. After several years of ramping up the capacity on these licenses, things changed. Matt spoke out as a skeptic. About that time, the renewals were delayed, then the numbers were cut in half, and new conditions were added that were impossible to meet. To feed and supply water for thousands of cattle the Thompsons had to sign agreements in advance to pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars of goods they could not use, but had no way of knowing that at the time. When they appealed, it took 18 months to get “vindicated” but by then there was only six months left on the “two year” license. Not enough to set up all the contracts and run a business. The new sub-clauses meant that even licenses for a qualified “10,000″ head had vague untestable conditions: the license you have when you don’t have a license.
I am ashamed of what our government has done.
If the media won’t cover this, shame on them too.
I’ve written before in more detail:
Tyranny: How to destroy a business with environmental red tape
Smell that evidence
There is much discussion on Agmates, and a call for donations (see below):
URGENT HELP – Thompson family in trouble
NAB had not long ago told Matt & Janet that they were not going to move on them before December 31st. But it appears that they have changed their mind.
Those familar with previous discussions on Agmates will know that the Thompson family have no funds available to them to face being thrown out on their ear by the bank. Donations are needed ASAP to help provide a roof over the children’s head. Please consider donating what you are able into the following bank account that has been set up so as any donations can’t be seized with all other assets of Matt & Janet including the few dollars left in their own bank account.
Account Name: L&S BallardDescription: Kate/Aby/Will/LukeBSB: 016 770Account Number: 439863697ANZ: Bintamilling Arcade, Egerton Street, Narrogin, Western AustraliaSWIFT Code: ANZBAU3M
=====================================
For International money transfers, or payment by credit cards, Jo Nova has set up a special PayPal donation button (in US dollars). This will go to her bank account, with an ID that means it will be recorded as a donation for Matt and Janet. She will transfer it to their account. I have complete trust here. Please give anything you can, no amount is too small.
I’m confident WUWT readers can turn this around.
LINK TO PAYPAL DONATION HERE
You can also use your credit/debit card if you don’t have a PayPal account.
(note this takes you to an intermediate page, which I have to do since wordpress.com won’t allow me to insert the full code).
Also for those who have other websites, or who frequent other forums, bulletin boards, and blogs, I ask your help in getting the word out.
As Michael D. Smith writes in comments below:
Let’s show the Aussie Government what “We The People” can do…
Thanks for your consideration – Anthony
================================================
UPDATE1:
Dale Stiller writes in comments: Thank you all who have sent donations for the Thompson family. You can also help by emailing your disgust to Main Stream Media in Western Australia. Below are a few email addresses.
W A Newspaper contacts:
The West
http:au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/contact/
(does not give a Perth email, only phone no (08) 94823111 )
Email for Sydney Rep Office (The West) cdsilva@wansydney.com.au
Western Australian statewide rural newspaper
W A Radio – Perth National:
ABC News Radio – http://www.abc.net.au/newsradio/about/contact.htm
ABC News Rural – wwwabc.net.au/rural/contact/
ABC Midwest & wheatbelt http://www.abc.net.au/contact/contactabc.htm
=====================================================
UPDATE2:
Janet Thompson responds to the issues raised by some saying she said in a public meeting: “there will be no odour”. Given Matt’s and Janet’s extensive involvement in animal agriculture, including feedlots and saleyards, in the States prior to coming to Western Australia, I find it hard to believe that she’d say this. Here is an excerpt of her response:
The myth has been propagated that I stated at our original open public meeting in March 2002 that I made the statement that there would be no odour. In considering any proposition in which animals are to be located in one area, it is ludicrous for anyone to state that there would be no odour. (And, I submit, for anyone to blindly believe such a statement.) I know places that have one horse, and there is odour to manage. Whatever statement that was made that night has been taken out of context, and now many people who were not even in attendance that night are repeating this myth. We spoke about manure smelling when it was wet, and for that reason, found it desirable to be located on the south side of town, when prevailing winds are away from town. We were always open about this, and are gravely disappointed in friends who have not come to us to discuss things, but instead worked actively behind our backs to wreak havoc in our lives, and to attempt to destroy our livelihood, the livelihoods of our employees and contractors, and our life savings.
Here’s the document as PDF. FYI, You’ll see today’s date on it since I made the PDF today from a Word DOC sent to me.
Thompson Response to community members LCCC
========================================================
UPDATE3: HOW TO WRITE A LETTER Reader Mark from Australia writes and provides sample letter ideas for contacting MP’s in Australia and members of the media:
People should reword as they desire and add questions if they have any specialist knowledge or expertise, especially in the feedlot business. They MUST keep it civil. People should send FOUR SEPARATE letters or emails. One to each Minister. That is important. Each MUST be answered so they must put their return addresses on them. I will be sending mine as letters, today.
Be sure to edit this to cover the points you want to include and your own words. Note that simpler hand written letters are likely to carry more weight. It is important to distinguish between EDO Environmental Defenders Office (which is the Non Governmental Organization) and DEC Department of Environment and Conservation (which is the state department of environment and conservation, which is responsible for licensing and the decisions that have been made). In that vein, most of the questions should be about DEC, not EDO (although the funding ones are great to ask).
Premier The Honourable Colin Barnett MEc MLA
Minister for State Development
24th Floor, Governor Stirling Tower,
197 St Georges Terrace,
PERTH Western Australia 6000
Tel: (08) 9222 9888 Fax: (08) 9322 1213
e-Mail: wa-government@dpc.wa.gov.au
The Honourable Brendon Grylls MLA
Minister for Regional Development & Lands; Minister Assisting the Minister for State Development
9th Floor, Dumas House,
2 Havelock Street,
WEST PERTH Western Australia 6005
Tel: (08) 9213 7000 Fax: (08) 9213 7001
e-Mail: Minister.Grylls@dpc.wa.gov.au
The Honourable Terry Redman MLA
Minister for Agriculture and Food
Address: 11th Floor, Dumas House, 2 Havelock Street, WEST PERTH WA 6005
Telephone: (08) 9213 6700 Fax: (08) 9213 6701
e-Mail: Minister.Redman@dpc.wa.gov.au
The Honourable Donna Faragher MEd(Hons) BA(Hons) GradDipEd JP MLC
Minister for Environment
10th Floor, Dumas House,
2 Havelock Street,
WEST PERTH WA 6005
Tel: (08) 9213 7250 Fax: (08) 9213 7255
e-Mail: Minister.Faragher@dpc.wa.gov.au
MINISTERIAL REQUEST – NARROGIN BEEF PRODUCERS
Background Information
Matt and Janet Thompson moved from the USA to establish a feedlot business about 4 km outside Narrogin, WA. The business started operation in 2003 and employed about 20 locals at peak. This represents a success for WA and a success for Australia in attracting foreign investment.
Following his publicly expressing doubt as to the effect of the cattle industry on ‘global warming’ in June 2008, the West Australian Environmental Defenders Office (EDO) took an interest in complaints by Narrogin greens against the Thompson’s business.
In 2008, the Thompson’s applied to the West Australian Department of Environment and Conservation for an increase in their licence capacity from 10,000 to 15,000 head. Instead, the DEC cut their licence conditions back to 6,000 head, effectively closing the business by removing its economies of scale. The feedlot remains closed. This closure also played a role in the suicide of one of the employees, Mr Lindley Boseley.
The reasoning given by EDO on use of regulation to destroy this business is not available but seems subjective, indeed, specious (Reference page 2 of EDO newsletter at http://www.edowa.org.au/newsletters/200803Newsletter.pdf).
The EDO newsletter is itself disturbing. It displays the hallmarks of both a ‘captured bureaucracy’ and an issue-motivated NGO. It is positively triumphs the ‘Green cause’.
Questions
1.The Environmental Defenders Office is jointly funded by the West Australian State Government and the Federal Government. Why is WA funding this organisation when it seems to be little more than an arm of ‘The Greens’?
2.On what scientific grounds was the Thompson’s licence capacity reduced from 10,000 head to 6,000 head?
3.Was the viability of the Thompson’s business considered by the EDO in making this determination?
4.What are the scientific or other relevant qualifications of those who made this decision within the EDO?
5.Was this decision subject to review by anyone with skills in determining its impact on the viability of the Thompson’s business?
a.If so, who, and what are their business qualifications and experience?
b.If the EDO decision was not subject to review to determine the impact of the decision on the Thompson’s business by a person with appropriate business qualifications and skills, why not?
c.If the EDO decision included no business impact review from a person qualified to determine its impact on their business, were ‘the rules constantly changed’ in respect of the Thompsons applications?
i.If so, why and on what grounds?
ii.If so what were the qualifications of the person(s) making these ‘rule changes’?
d.Was ‘natural justice’ denied to the Thompsons in their application?
e.What appeals processes were available to the Thompsons?
f.Were they made aware of these in time to make effective use of them?
6.Why are the Thompsons being evicted from their property on 21 September 2010 instead of in December?
7.Are the WA Ministers for State Development, Agriculture, and State Development and Lands aware of the ability of the EDO to close any WA agricultural business on apparently subjective and/or ideological grounds?
8.Are the appropriate WA Ministers (State Development, Agriculture, and State Development and Lands) aware that this case is now attracting very adverse international attention to WA, due to the Thompsons being international investors in WA?
9.Are the appropriate WA Ministers (State Development, Agriculture, and State Development and Lands) aware that this case is causing damage to WA’s ‘brand’ as a safe place for international investment in agriculture?
10.Is there a link between Mr Thompson’s ‘offence’ against a Green ideological belief in ‘global warming’ and the EDO’s patently apparent belief in that same ideology?
11.Was Mr Thomson’s business targeted by the EDO on the basis of this ideology?
12.Did the ‘Green ideology’ so apparent in the EDO’s publications play any role in their determination?
a.If so, why is ‘Green ideology’ permitted to destroy a business and 20 jobs?
b.If not, what was the scientific basis for their decision to deny their application for an increase in license numbers from 10,000 head to 15,000 head?
13.Will the WA Government review the funding and operations of the EDO to prevent further damage to WA’s ‘brand’ as an investment destination?
Yours Sincerely
NAME
ADDRESS
DATE
===============================================
UPDATE4:
Jo Nova reports that WUWT readers have given generously! Over $27,000 was raised in two days from 670 donations. My humble and sincerest thanks to you all for coming to their aid when asked. Jo Nova reports that the fund will go into the Thompson children’s names.
Of course the alarmist community has been silent, there’s not been one word of support that I’m aware of.
See the latest from Jo Nova of how the DEC defines ditches at farms, and you’ll understand the sort of green tyranny the Thompsons face.
People should reword as they desire and add questions if they have any specialist knowledge or expertise, especially in the feedlot business. They MUST keep it civil.
People should send FOUR SEPARATE letters or emails. One to each Minister. That is important.
Each MUST be answered so they must put their return addresses on them. I will be sending mine as letters, today.
Hope this helps.
If you must refer to me, then please just keep it as ‘Reader Mark from Australia’
Please could you provide a link to Jo Nova’s special PayPal donation button.
Anthony, thanks for posting this. Donation sent.
Could you have made it any more difficult to donate? Where’s the link?
When you go to Jo Novas blog, if it’s there, it’s not very obvious. And if you go to Agmates you have to log in…. WUWT? Come on. Put up a direct link and I’m in….
But make me hunt all over the place and/or have to create another login wherin I don’t know if it’s there….
Have just tried transferring some cash for Matt and Janet, but the 9 digit a/c number is not recognised by my bank, who ask for either an 8 or 10 digit no.
Is 439863697 correct?
I have donated, posted on my site and I’ll be Twittering the hell out of it all weekend.
Am I just terribly dense, or is there no button to click through to help by PayPal? Please advise.
Just donated. Link is here:
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/4-days-notice-the-thompsons-are-served-notice-of-eviction/
1/3 of the way down the page.
Anthony, it might help to post a link directly to the payment site… I’m sure I’ll find it but a direct link might be, well, more direct… Thanks, Mike S.
Oops, sorry I didn’t see others had already suggested this…
FIXED
Apologies, the wordpress.com editor stripped out the code for the donate button, fixed. I’ve linked to an intermediate page on my own server, which will then take you to the PayPal page. Sorry that I have to do this, but wordpress.com where WUWT is hosted does not allow any sort of scripts or forms like this.
Refresh to see the link!
I’ll get this out to my Oregon Cattlemen’s association friends and relatives.
This will get you to the donate button. Let’s show the Aussie Government what “We The People” can do…
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/4-days-notice-the-thompsons-are-served-notice-of-eviction/
REPLY: Thanks fixed now on WUWT, see my note above – Anthony
Done. Thanks for posting, Anthony.
It’s scary. If you want to see the kids with their mother on happy days, see
http://www.rotary5830.org/Alumni/WhereAreThey/thompson.htm
The bureaucrats who are responsible for this should eventually face tough punishments for this atrocious [snip] behavior but before that, I hope that they will gather the resources they need to decently survive.
The Austrailian government sees fit to spend 3 million to fly Oprah Winfrey’s audience to Austrailia and writes it off as “advertising.”
The same Austrailian government sees fit to put farming out of business.
Hey Oprah! Have your audience pack globalony sandwiches! Food is being outlawed in Austrailia!
Hey s–t happens. Donation done. And I have to say this – I feel a new sense of unity, so thanks for that also Doc. Your The Man!
Sent a little donation, thank you for making us aware. Poor people. Stupid government.
Thanks Anthony – done it via Pay Pal.
Good luck Matt and Janet.
My compliments to Anthony. Running a blog is tedious and HARD.
FIXING the link within the hour or two that he did is MARVELOUS!
I’ll see about maybe $10 myself. Despite being unemployed for a year. USA Federal money. It’s OK, they put me out of work anyway!
REPLY: Compared to fighting the idiocy of government, running a blog is a breeze. Thanks – Anthony
Thanks Anthony – I had already read the story earlier over at Jo’s site but was then called away before making a donation, and forgot. Thanks to your post here I have now made a small donation.
To the Thompsons, if you are reading this: you follow in the steps of many other victims of an oppressive state, and sadly more will follow you. Who knows which of us will be next. One day the good freedom lovers of the world will unite and crush these leftist b*****ds. I know which side I’ll be on. Best to you.
Hit the jar. Good Luck Matt and Janet.
Sent a donation. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Online donation sent!
.
After all the non-sense i’ve posted over here that the moderators have had to review. It’s the least I can do. Done. “….Because the Aussie Govt. doesn’t give a Four Ex about the owners of smelly farms!”
The PayPal site worked fine. Donation sent.
Anthony: …..and I think Speak for the regulars over here….if you ever need a bit of cash…..just let us know. JOhnnny
Looked for the Paypal donate button here but couldn’t find it.
Went to Nova’s site, finally found it there, and donated.
Got back here and there’s the button in plain sight.
Anyway, thanks Anthony. I hope we can make a difference.
Seems to me, a multimillion $ lawsuit would be in order.
Find a hungry US lawyer and sue for loss of income, pain, suffering, etc, etc.
I’m shocked. This is just small-minded and vicious behaviour by napoleanic bureaucrats. I think all the blogs need to post something about this. Hopefully some media will pick up on it and show the rest of society what this movement is really all about.
This has a remarkable “canary in a coal mine” feel to it, but who knows how many times it has already happened, in Australia and around the world, without public attention. This lunatic eco-juggernaut needs to be brought under control – soon. The only way this will happen is to force governments to change what they do, and the only way to accomplish that is to change the lists of those who govern. Use your vote – wherever you live.
/dr.bill
Tom Rowan said at 9:22 am
The Austrailian government sees fit to spend 3 million to fly Oprah Winfrey’s audience to Austrailia and writes it off as “advertising.”
You can’t be serious! Are you saying BILLIONAIRE Winfrey DIDN’T pay for that?? You have proof of that? She gets all the kudos while the Aussie Gov. forks over taxpayer money to ???? What? Pamper a few hundred Americans? Or kiss her butt? Three million! Wow! I didn’t you folks were doing so well down under…..
That’s just not right! And don’t anyone even speculate that if per chance I was in the audience that day if I found this out before leaving that I would still go. And Australia is on my buck list! [snip]
I feel ashamed to say that I have Australian links, although the problem of the bully boys goes much wider. This won’t win the war but we might win the battle. Donation sent.
I sent a small donation. I hope it helps to drive the nutty environmentalist [snip] crazy!
Donation sent. Once again, well done Anthony and team. Aye, Bob
Just made a donation – it couldn’t be easier.
Thanks for posting this. I’ve been somewhat following their plight on JoNova. When I first read it there, there was no paypal option. Donation sent.
Donation done via Paypal. Hope the campaign is successful. Keep us posted at the top of the WUWT file for a few days.
I have filled out the donate page three times.
My credit card information is not accepted!
Will link from Examiner site directly.
How much do they need?
Donation sent. Thanks Anthony.
Good luck to Matt, Janet and the children:).
Words fail me – can’t even think – I’m that angry!
Donation on its way.
Thanks for the link.
ça y est. Sorry it’s only $20 but hope it helps.
Hmmm, however, it sounds, at first glance, like the bank in this case is the villain rather than the unnamed individuals in the state government department who seem to be retaliating against Matt Thompson for expressing skepticism about AGW.
Until those individuals are named, and everyone in their neighborhood can see who it really was that destroyed the livelihood of real people, unnamed bureaucrats will continue to do these things on a whim.
I filled out the card details, and my address, which is presumably to cross check. My email I can just about understand for confirmation purposes, but when it demanded my phone number I’m afraid I cancelled. There is NO WAY they need, or are going to get, that information from me.
I’m going to the bank on Monday to try and arrange a direct transfer….
To Dave ward
Phone number needed to verify you are the cardholder
They won’t call you
Donated
Lived in rural WA in the 1960s (Northhampton) chasing lead zinc mines, including some that had been mined by convicts in the 1800s. Visited often in the early 1970s, again chasing mines mainly around Kal and the Northwest (Lyndon Station)
Lovely people – Salt of the earth.
How things must have changed
We’re in.
Good luck !!
OK, Anthony – they just got all my “blogger gift fund” money for the month.
Let’s hope it does some good.
Just donated. This is a disgrace – well done to Jo for letting everyone know
Donation sent. Thank you for the opportunity.
Go to paypal for easy donation
Donation sent.
Good luck to them! Donated.
Done. Until we all start putting our money and effort into fighting for what we believe we will be treated just as quiescent sheep. Defeat Eco tyranny!
The American Media might cover this, how about a communication campaign to Fox News? This is what happens when governments across the world become out of control.
Donation on it’s way.
Gawd, that was fun.
Perhaps someone would like to see what the actual neighbours wrote about the facility in their own words?
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
Donation made.
Hope you will give us occasional updates on amount received?
Donated.
Please post links to this on any forums/boards you are members of (as appropriate).
The more people that see this the better.
Donation sent.
Okay. Donated using the Donate button on top here. I love PayPal !!!!!
Hope I hereby have irritated some socialist government type in Australia.
Donation made and prayers for the Thompson family are on the way.
Andrew
This is the first donation I’ve done in years as I make far below even a pittance and lost my home and went bankrupt to boot in the last several years. I hope they can pay off the bank and be done with them.
Anthony
Where is Sarah Palin and her 30/30 when you need her? 😉
Anthony, I donated what I could. Thanks for letting us know about this.
Please keep us informed regarding this situation.
If there is more we can do either financially or by contacting certain authorities please let us know.
Rick
Shocking.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan “I’m from the government; I can crush you”
Just wait ’til the US EPA gets going.
Are they protected against fraud/deception adequately?
Donation made; but with their number above for donations, doesn’t that threaten them with theft and unauthorized withdrawals as well?
payment sent, I hope my small donation helps take away some of the stress for them.
Donated $20. Why do they need a license in the first place? Why are country folk complaining about farm smells? Do we know who the complainants were or where from?
Eco-facism at work.
For machininst type people, this WUWT link is posted here:
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=825795#post825795
…just spreadin’ the word… 🙂
Donation easy with the Paypal button.
Well done, Anthony. You are much talk and more action. What a blogger!
Ahhh so this is the impact on humans caused by “global warmists”!
Now we see what they meant when they said that there would be “climate refugees”
and a great “negative impact” on human beeings.Well they were perfectly right!
Maby this family can get political asylum as refugees from political herassment and persecution. The UN maybe..no sorry they are involved in the percecution maby Venezuela will accpet them or Brazil?
Pay Pal here I come!!! Fight the [snip] movement!
It is NOT true that real farms smell. Read some of Joel Salatin’s books about his Polyface farm, which has hundreds of animals and smells good.
Gigantic BigAg farms smell, and their product is not as healthy as wildcrafted animal food.
Nonetheless, this is an example of Government trashing the Rule of Law. It is happening in the United States, too–and if we do not recover the USA, this story is proof that we will not have sanity anywhere else, either. If we want civilization, we have to fight for it.
All good luck in the future to Matt and Janet. Small donation sent with my best wishes.
I visited friends in Oz this spring and I am appalled that this could happen in your lovely country.
Anthony, just sent e-mails to Hotair.con@Foxnews.Also sent my donation. May God bless those folks.
What does SIEG HEIL sound like with an Australian accent?
Something like “seeeg hoiyal mate” I guess.
where’s my credit card …
“Virveli says:
September 18, 2010 at 11:21 am
Perhaps someone would like to see what the actual neighbours wrote about the facility in their own words?
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf”
Thanks for that, people here really ought to read some of the comments. Several of them are from retired people – they’re just more ‘leftists b*****ds’ though I guess…
Are several people who said Janet Thompson said ‘There will be no odour’ mistaken?
Made a donation. Terrific thing to do Anthony.
Anthony
I am in Oklahoma City, USA. The PayPal site does not accept my state/zip, is there another way?
If you dont use Paypal:
To pay with credit card is real easy through the link provided – I found it much easier to to pay with credit card directly that to top up my own Paypal account
..and remember to turn on coockies in you browser or you will get a:”Fatal Failure”
PayPal is the best thing since baseball!
Actually, baseball makes me yawn so passionately I risk a jaw dislocation.
Originally it was a Russian game played by children, called “lapta” [lahp-TAH]. We played it when I was 8-10 years old, using sticks for bats and an old empty tin can instead of ball. I didn’t know then that this rather unintellectual pastime is a big business in America. Russians brought lapta to Alaska and California in 17th century, Spaniards picked it up, and much later it was commercialized, called “baseball” and made into a big deal.
There is something obscene in the fact that each one of these ugly guys with sticks makes in a year more than any hard-working person makes in his lifetime.
Donated.
Jo Nova posted that $1000 US was received in less than an hour after she set up her paypal button, and $6000+ as of her last update. We’re making a difference.
Just donated…. thanks Anthony for bringing this injustice to our attention.
(Robert of Ottawa)
“Do we know who the complainants were or where from?”
As per my link above they were ordinary people from around the facility & the local agricultural college. Please see the College Principal’s statement on the observed effects of the feeding lot.
link again:
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
Donation button worked quite well.
To Matt and Janet, I hope you receive enough funds to hire a good lawyer. All the best to you!
Donation sent.
I’m not buying any more Aussie wine until this is resolved. Believe me, that will hurt their entire economy. You should see the empty wine bottles.
Thought you all (y’all) might like an update from Nova’s site:
UPDATE 4:
My intray is long overrun with emails of notification of donations. Thanks to one and all! I had intended to write a short personal thank you to each of you, but I’d be writing all day tomorrow and next week… The tally is now up to $6000 plus USD.
Sorry I can’t stay up to keep up with the tally!
The eco-loons haven’t a brain cell between them.
Donation made!
Thanks
Virveli says:
September 18, 2010 at 11:21 am
Perhaps someone would like to see what the actual neighbours wrote about the facility in their own words?
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
people need to read those letters
My modest donation was just sent via PayPal.
And remember, everyone: Australia is a liberal democracy. It’s not Saudi Arabia or Sudan or a similar hellhole. And yet tyranny like this can easy occur once people stop paying attention.
The PayPal roundabout worked. Thanks Anthony, Joanne. My best wishes for Abbey, Janet, Luke, Matt and Kate.
Donation sent.
People enjoy their steaks and chops and also like to move out to the country where the farms are located. And then they’re offended to find life in the country has its own realities. Farms smell from animal waste. That’s a fact of life yet city folk are so divorced from their food source they think it’s possible to operate one odor-free. City sewage treatment systems deal with human waste to stink to high heaven – worse than a farm, yet we force these noxious odors on rural people and all the fauna within smelling distance. The enviro-nazies literally think their sh+t doesn’t stink nor do they recognize every time they flush that they add their own pollution to the earth. We have governments held in thrall to the illogical green ideology and unless ordinary people rise up and speak out it will get worse and worse.
Thanks Anthony for promoting this,
I’ve been and made a donation and forwrded your link on to 30 of my ‘climate’ friends.
Cheers and have a happy day!
Robin
Donation sent,only a small amount, unfortunately i am not on large pay,but i have a roof over my head.
Perhaps Oprah would like to donate something to a good cause,anyone got an e-mail
for her production company HARPO!!
Donated!
This is a terrible thing.
We had 4500 farmers thrown off their land here a few years ago , and their employees numbering over 300 000 plus their families were evicted with 24 hours notice and they lost everything. Crops, farm equipment, furniture , vehicles and homes burnt down. Domestic pets were cruelly beaten and burned to death. Pigs, cows, sheep were hacked with machetes and left to die from lack of food and water. Irrigation pipes and pumps were dug up and melted down for scrap, fences were taken down and used as snares to catch wild animals. Not one person has been compensated for any loss ten years down the road and agricultural output is still less than a third of what it was in 2000.
That was also political.
There is no tag for Zimbabweans to contribute, regrettably, this country is not seen as a viable source of money yet it would seem. All I can offer is my sympathy for their desperate situation and I am sure the help being given by others will see them clearing this hurdle in their road to successful farming.
Donated.
Thanks for the opportunity to help.
Well there’s not a few non distinct servers in Ukraine one could go through for starters, maybe double back and go through a few south american servers (they’re always open for business so to speak, hehehe) and then through the lonliest ISP in the Whole Wide World out there in the deep south pacific tha fabled Pitcairn Islands. Jump through a couple of pacific hoops then through New Zeeland up to Papua New Guinea and some unsuspecting ISP host in Port Moresby down to down under and straight in to their puny government servers with worse security than even Pentagon (how that could even be possible is beyond me, but hey which hacker complaining I ask?)
Then it’s all about psychology really, like changing an alarming 0.5 degree change to 5.0 degrees, or changing the address of the recipient of all 15000 animals to the main aussie government building, because they do tend to take care of all them poor animals right?
Done! and glad to do it. Now lets start a legal fund to right this wrong.
My money is on its way.
Come on, people: let’s show them the power of WUWT!
Frederick
Thanks for posting this. Will post a link on the website too.
I’m in…
Donation made. I hope this story breaks into the msm.
Donation sent. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please keep us posted.
Thank you for the head’s up. Donation sent.
This is certainly a tragic story and shows once more what bureaucracy can do to well meaning people. And it’s honourable that Anythony is going out of his way to help his friends.
However, a couple of things don’t quite add up. There’s a report dated April 2008 saying that the DEC wanted the number of cattle be reduced because of odour and waste managment issues.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/09/2211844.htm?site=news
So this was two months before that beef indusrty meeting Matt Thompson attended. There are also several complaints from neigbours, and coming from a small town in the middle of nowthere myself, I know that country folks and people in the beef industry usually are not overly concerned about global warming. Hence, I don’t really see the connection to an AGW campaign.
Still, the authority’s behaviour seems like changing the goalposts, and I wish the Thompsons all the best.
Donated $10 by Paypal
Sadly, the AGW is becoming a monster out of control with the ability to devastate our society. It’s time to start actively fighting it in order to get it confined back to the science domain and out of our normal lives.
My best wishes to the Thompsons from Spain.
sorry Anthony,
Great family shot but I can’t honestly donate to a feedlot operation that has no commitment to properly manage waste.
If you can demonstrate that they are properly managing the feedlot to minimize the stink for their neighbors, I’ll be happy to donate.
Sincerely,
John from CA
Donation sent. Please could you keep us updated about their future.
Just donated and I have a suggestion. When this is tallied a few days from now, somebody local there needs to contact the local press with the rescue story (assuming there is one). With luck, that story could go global and do more good elsewhere.
Donation sent!
A high profile situation like this is how you send a message to the eco-fascists that normal people are mad as hell and are not going to put up with this crap any more.
I used to have a signature on one of the forums I hang out that said:
Global warming the next inquisition!
At the time I used it, the comment was mostly in jest, if there is not a solid effort to push back against this sort of abuse of government by narrow minded zealots, it could become real.
I normally do not make donations of this type prefering to avoid “organized efforts” as they usually skim too much money off the top, how ever I trust both Anthony and Jo Nova will do the right thing and see the money gets where it is intended to go.
Abbey, Janet, Luke, Matt and Kate — we all wish you well, and hope this sorts out in the best way possible for you and yours.
Larry
Additional note —
If the government is big enough and powerful enough to do everything “for you” they are big enough and powerful enough to do “anything to you”.
Larry
Donated! Nice to be able to do something to help what in what is such a ludicrous predicament
No hesitation.
This gets the message across more than any amount of protest, emailing, mailing or the other stuff.
Money talks. Let’s shout.
Off now to tell everyone I know.
Would it be possible to do a land/farm swap with someone further out in the boonies?
A landholder further out may get interested if he can obtain land close to town.
Probably I am just dreaming.
I did send a donation to Oz.
But also, Keith Battye, thanks for that reminder about Zimbabwe.
What I see in places like that is the Chinese coming in, in about 15 years’ time, to rebuild the infrastructure. For their benefit, sure, but because everyone will benefit, and there are no denialists in their way.
After all, the UN one-world-governmentalists, the evangelical warmist-activist greens, and the scientists at the top of the scientific establishment, are the real deniers – the blind leading the blind. They deny the self-evident right for each person to check the basic science for themselves. And they deny their projection of their own denialism onto those who are not in denial.
John from CA says:
September 18, 2010 at 2:01 pm
sorry Anthony,
Great family shot but I can’t honestly donate to a feedlot operation that has no commitment to properly manage waste.
If you can demonstrate that they are properly managing the feedlot to minimize the stink for their neighbors, I’ll be happy to donate.
______________________________________
John, you are looking at this case from the prejudiced point of view. All over the Earth there are all kinds of conflicts among neighbors, including those related to the agricultural use of land. In more or less sane countries there are courts to decide on such cases, and to settle such conflicts.
However, when the environmentalist activism is involved to influence the judgment, we must do everything we can to separate this new religion from the government. Otherwise, in few years we wouldn’t be able to clean our noses without getting a permit from some government-subsidized, authority-abusing group of self-righteous wackos imposing their minority will on the majority of the population.
Postponing a solution of this problem by citing various qualifications and stipulations just won’t do. We need to stop this nonsense in its tracks here and now.
Anthony,
Thanks for bringing this to our attention, and letting a family know that City Hall doesn’t always have the last say!
How can these greenies live with themselves? How Dare they. I’ll donate as much as I reasonably can.
Sent a little.
September 18, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Where do they come from ?
Donated $20, hope that my small contribution helps.
Good luck from Norway!
All the best to the Thomsons.
I’ve sent a bit – many a mickle maks a muckle!
Anthony – sent small donation to you, would appreciate if you could pass it on. I couldn’t figure out how to make the link work via my mobile device, sorry for the bother.
Dave.
hope it works out, donation sent
Donation sent. If we do not fight the Green Fascists then God only knows what kind of “Final Solution” will be imposed upon us all! There is no doubt that a kind of Western version of a Khmer Rouge movement is raising its ugly head and cutting its teeth….this family may be one of the first victims but eventually these Green Fascists will establish momentum and get us all – that is, if we do not ACT NOW!
I recall that Himmler also believed that it was all necessary and that the end justified the means. He joined the Artamanen society, a sort of idealistic back-to-the-land youth group. They were essentially romantic idealists…traits that are so very much in common with the extremist position adopted by a some Greens today. Just as in the past, the targets of the Greens conveniently happen to be those in control of the commanding heights of the economy: industry, manufacturing, energy and resources as well as the land owners and farmers. They are not far short of the final step which will be to annex or appropriate this wealth and these assets for their cause (it will not end in Carbon Taxes….this is only the beginning). Will it or could it all go as far as Himmler did…perhaps not so unlikely as it seems, after all few, including Chamberlain imagined what horrors would ultimately be perpetrated some 70 years ago….
Ok, Anthony, should have some time after I get to Joliet to answer the call.
Thanks for posting this Anthony, donation sent
Done.
Thanks for the heads up.
Good luck from the Florida Keys.
Made a donation. Hope it helps. I wonder how much they need to keep the wolf from the door? American donors respond well to goals and targets.
I read some of the nonsense written by their neighbors. It is impossible to make an odorless feedlot. These folks should visit West Texas some time. Amarillo, Texas has a population of over 160,00 and is downwind of the Randall County Feedlot, the Wildorado Feedlot and (indirectly) the Hereford Feedlot. It doesn’t take long before you don’t even notice it. These “neighbors” would choke to death if they drove through Hereford, Texas!
The food NAZI are hard at work here in New Zealand ..
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/4143070/Biddys-cheeses-caught-in-TV-trap..
Food safety BS… they allow all manner of Chinese toxins AND US GMO crops into NZ without the bat of an eye YET are going out of their way to make LIFE for home grown, AND safe operations a misery… Our own backyard gardens are next!.
donation sent. These government bas***ds must be defeated and driven out of civilized society. Good luck Thompson family, we’re pulling for you.
I donated 25.
I e-mailed the Liberal party of WA.Perhaps if they get a lot of mail they will at least look at the issue.
http://www.wa.liberal.org.au/index.php?option=com_qcontacts&view=contact&id=1&Itemid=185
When I see the actions that well funded and staffed organizations like Greenpeace or WWF can do, I begin to wonder what else we can do besides spread the word and teach the science.
I bet a lot of us will see this both as a chance to help the Thompsons, send a wakeup call to a heavy-handed government, and demonstrate a disorganized gaggle like us can make a direct impact. Joanne has $6,000 as of four hours ago. She’s going to be astounded when she gets up this morning.
I haven’t spent much time at her site ever since Climategate broke, but I’ve exchanged notes with her in the past. She will handle this effort well, at least what she expected to come from it. I’m confident she’s the right person to handle what it may turn into.
I posted on her site:
The US Libertarian Party pioneered the use of “money bombs” – part fund raising and part demonstration of how many supporters there are. Some of them have brought in a remarkable amount of money for various political campaigns.
You may want to start thinking about how to use the extra money that may show up. As for mine (through WUWT), you have my permission to use it any way you think appropriate. My recommendation is public education about the excesses of your government, followed by starting something like the opposite of Greenpeace, paying some of your costs in this effort or the rest of your work, or lots and lots of chocolate. Oh wait – I can only speak for my money. A pound or so of good chocolate is all you get.
Ordinarily all she asks for is chocolate….
Anthony – this rather sceptical old lawyer has a problem. If I send a payment from the UK you say it will go to Jo Nova’s account “recorded as a donation for Matt and Janet”. Unfortunately this means that it is exposed to creditor claims, perhaps from the mortgage lender or from the general farm creditors, where Jo says debts are accruing “by the minute”.
I would be very happy to make a (modest) donation purely for the children’s benefit (which would need separate trustees for the children) to try to help keep a roof over their heads. I am afraid I am not sure about a donation to Matt and Janet. This may only benefit creditors as above. I sense there may be another side to this story – see the “neighbour presentations” link from Virveli and Peter Hearnden above. I also think it was rather risky for apparent newcomers to the territory to sink all their savings into a capital-intensive farming business which needed biennial re-licensing in order to operate at all. Sorry, but that’s my “take” on all I have read to date.
Done. Good luck from Texas.
First, let me say that they have no authority to do that unless you give them the authority. But they are very sneaky in getting your consent as a Man. If you admit to be the “person” of the birth certificate, they beat you. If you do not claim equitable interest in your land, you loose.
I suggest you research the legal creature called a “claim of right”. Laws of all Commonwhealth countries are similar.
Art 39 to 41 of the Criminal Code of Canada state that WITH a claim of right, you can use whatever force necessary to protect your property, EVEN IF the persons coming to take it have the LEGAL RIGHT to take it, i.e. your Anglo-Saxon Common Law right of property supercede THEIR (needing of your consent) legislations, acts and statutes.
What you have to do is find the counterpart article in your local law code, and understand and issue a claim of right. And the provisions ARE into the Aussie law too.
(I will quote below the precise articles.)
The guy to contact is Robert Menard, in Canada, ASAP. He’s a wizz at law, more precisely, Anglo-Saxon Common Law and it’s opposition to civil law. The former recognises you have rights, the second grants you privileges. The second operates only on “persons”, e.g. legal fictions. No courts or lawyer will ever bring you out of the realm of civil “law” (not truly laws but more legislation, acts and statutes, e.g. contracts that have to be voluntarily adhered to).
You’ll find Robert Menard’s videos on Youtube. I don’t know how to get a hold of him in a hurry. Try ThinkFree.ca , try to send a message as if you ordered his package, try everything, and he’ll probably help you.
Then, there is Eldon Warman in Alberta, Canada, who’s also dissected and understood the law very well. He too can help you craft documents. http:www.DetaxCanada.org
In four days, you have enough time to get to watch Robert Menard’s video several times.
Watch The Magnificent Deception, and Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception, and then With Lawful Excuses, and a few others. It will give you a lot of ammunition to stop them.
Finally, research in a hurry the Principalty of Hutt River, one farmer that would have been screwed like you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hutt_River
They have ambassies, so you might be able to get a hold of them quite easily. Despite the fact that most articles about them say “yeah, yeah, we don’t recognise them”, you cannot miss the fact that gov’t had to spit out a huge chunk.
Criminal Code of Canada
Defence with claim of right
39. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of personal property under a claim of right, and every one acting under his authority, is protected from criminal responsibility for defending that possession, even against a person entitled by law to possession of it, if he uses no more force than is necessary.
Defence without claim of right
(2) Every one who is in peaceable possession of personal property, but does not claim it as of right or does not act under the authority of a person who claims it as of right, is not justified or protected from criminal responsibility for defending his possession against a person who is entitled by law to possession of it.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 39.
Defence of dwelling
40. Every one who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house, and every one lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority, is justified in using as much force as is necessary to prevent any person from forcibly breaking into or forcibly entering the dwelling-house without lawful authority.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 40.
Defence of house or real property
41. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house or real property, and every one lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority, is justified in using force to prevent any person from trespassing on the dwelling-house or real property, or to remove a trespasser therefrom, if he uses no more force than is necessary.
Assault by trespasser
(2) A trespasser who resists an attempt by a person who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house or real property, or a person lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority to prevent his entry or to remove him, shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 41.
——————————–
Note here the distinction between legal possession and lawful possession. the first is related to the Roman law jurisdiction (civil law) where persons only have privileges, the second is Anglo-Saxon Common Law right which applies to all and every Man (woman included).
Rob Menard and Eldon Warman (and a few others) have been successful in repelling a lot of legal, but unlawful gov’t actions. They are publicly attacked pretty much from everywhere, but they held their end and in the end, the Law (Anglo-Saxon) prevailed.
They have a lot of detractors with a vested interest in the present legal deception.
Best of luck.
I read the link posted by Virveli
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
It appears that the case isn’t as one-sided as it has been portrayed, and that there was a major odour problem. The document appears to be genuine, as it contains identification of the WA College of Agriculture Narrogin who would surely complain loudly if misrepresented (their home page is http://www.narroginag.wa.edu.au/ [link not working ~ac]). Their letter certainly does complain about the odours, but it also says “On an individual basis, I have no problems with the Thompsons, their management, or the operations of the beef feedlot. I applaud their community interaction and engagement and I honestly want the Thompsons and Narrogin Beef Feedlot to remain in the Narrogin district.“.
Maybe the Thompsons had the right business in the wrong place. It certainly appears that the whole dispute has been extraordinarily badly managed, and maybe it was hijacked and corrupted by ideological interests (I’ve no time to research this but such comments have been made). Hopefully the money we have sent in will allow the Thompsons to rebuild their business in the right place, with the support of the college and others, and to the benefit of everyone in the district.
Whether the legal/bureaucratic system can be fixed, and the (possible) ideologues sorted out, is another matter …..
Money is tight but I put some in the kitty to help out.
Virveli says:
September 18, 2010 at 11:21 am
“Perhaps someone would like to see what the actual neighbours wrote about the facility in their own words?
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf”
Virveli, you are pointing to what is commonly called anecdotal evidence. In other words, it is evidence that may stand up to scientific and objective scrutiny but far more often does not.
It is too bad that the Thompsons were suckered into locating their feedlot as close to town as they did, but at least they made an attempt in assessing the perceived problem in an objective manner. Did you look at both sides of the argument? If not, check some of the links in the main post, for instance
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/07/smell-that-evidence/
Even the most biased judge makes at the very least a pretense that he tries to determine where in between the two sides of an argument the truth lies.
The Thompsons played by the rules. They got a license, and someone kept changing the rules on them. That is not fair. If someone moves into farming country and is bothered by the smell of manure, maybe he should have moved into town somewhere instead.
Aside from all of that and the fact that the issue needs to be resolved in court, right now the Thompson family needs to be able to survive, so they can avoid being thrown out onto the garbage pile. One man already died on account of the situation. How many more lives will it take before some people switch from seeing the Thompsons as villains to seeing them as the victims of a vendetta by a bureauracy?
Please, consider,
Can all of those who complain about the smell of manure tell the difference between hog- and cattle manure? The smell of hog-manure is many times worse!
Anyway, the Thompsons need help right now, and I sent $50.–.
In addition, I posted Anthony’s introduction to the Thompson story to my two blogs and hope that will help bring in more contributions.
Done.
Thompson says he is “in the hands of a government department that has grown unchecked for the last 30 years”. I feel his situation is representative of the overgrowth in government in Australia generally, such that we now have one government [snip] for every 2 real workers.
What fun! As soon as Management (my better half) returns home, its done – she does not know of this travesty as yet.
Done.
Good luck for the Thompsons.
Anthony, thanks for posting.
Stop green dictatorships, as well as others.
Donation sent and the Thompsons really need a lawyer with balls. My comment from Jo’s site, and my avatar is apt-
“This is an utter disgrace and just demonstrates what happens when the lunatics take over the asylum. Where do they think their food comes from? This really needs a lawyer to challenge the eviction notice, then the licence conditions to stop this happening to anyone else. First they come for the livestock farmers, then they’ll come for arable if pollen gets added to ‘unreasonable emissions’. I hope this works out well for the Thompsons and think a suitable form of punishment for the people that did this to them might be to fence them into a patch of land, stick up some webcams and watch them try to be self sufficient and sustainable.”
I have sent a donation. Hopefully some one in WA can organise the donation of several truckloads of feed lot waste to the doors of NAB and the responsible government office. The implication that this behaviour on the part of the Environmental Defender’s Office WA is a result of the Thompsons publicly expressing doubt over global warming is sadly believable. The fact that there are other large feed lot operations in the area proves the lie to the government actions (and on some matters intentional delay). There is a possibility that the civil servants complicit in this act of green vengeance have been too arrogant to have covered their tracks with regard to responding to the demands of the environmental groups. Emails and paperwork could exist. FOI may be warranted. Even if this proved unsuccessful, dealing with the investigation would be a wake up call to other cowardly bureaucrats. Also gathering evidence of the environmentalists involved admitting to their successful collusion with or influence of the Environmental Defender’s Office may be possible.
[OT – and the links to google.com are regional ~ac]
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Done, and good luck to them. I’m suspicious of the odour arguments if there is a nearby pig farm – pig manure is many times more pungent and unpleasant than cattle manure, and would easily overpower it. Also if they live in a farming community there must be many cattle farms within the 5K radius of the complainants- why were the Thompsons singled out? Smells like vendetta.
Reading all of the above comments has brought a lump to my throat.
At the moment, though I’m ashamed to be an Aussie, I am so so proud to be a member of the WUWT and JoNova community.
Thankyou to each and every one of you. There is hope for humanity afterall.
Done.
Peeps are to kind. I think they’re too kind because they don’t fully get the hardship this hardworking family’s going through. Truly, who can? Anyone been in the same situation recently?
Alas but when your government is trying to [snip] for no good god damn reason, [snip] government back up [snip] for no good [snip] reason.
Use every law to your own advantage.
Would like to see some indication of how much they need versus how much has been raised. Any chance you can post a graphic – you don’t need to show the actuall amounts just the relative progress.
Anyway, good luck to my fellow Okies… (born and raised there)
Anthony
Reading through the comments I see that a few have posted the complaints from neighbours. They would do well to have a look at Jo Nova’s Smell the evidence post here: http://joannenova.com.au/2010/07/smell-that-evidence/ This story has gotten longer and stronger legs since Jo first wrote about the Thompsons and it is most heartening to see so many familiar names lending support.
Update, I see Walter Schneider September 18, 2010 at 4:18 pm has beaten me to the punch. On the money Walter.
Anyway thank you Anthony for getting behind this. As an Australian I’m amazed that we are a quantum leap behind when it comes to exposing fraudulent environmentalism. Government agencies need to become more responsible/responsive to all stakeholders and this issue has the potential to bring that about.
I don’t get it, don’t the people of australia give a [snip] about their own peeps?
Not that I don’t mind the whole saving people thingy but give me a frakking break will ya I alone can only do so much. Apparently, of course, this is more then the whole pathetic Aussie hackers alone are able to achieve.
Pfft.
I am a australian but it is sad to say we are being taken over by the greens just like newzealand has, their farmers are going to be destroyed next month as there govt are going to vote on charging farmers green house gases ie methane cows farting .in australia Bob Brown of the greens have done a deal with labour to form a govt who are pushing the ETS and you name it . most of the the gooses have been recruted from the union movment say no more . GOD SAVE AUSTRALIA
I had no trouble donating with Paypal.
Firstly, I would like to say that on the face of it – the problem seems relatively small (as in, the number of complainants) relative to the potential economic benefits to the area.
I would also certainly take the view that the licensing authority and planners should have considered all of the ‘aspects’ of the feedlot at the time of application.
On the basis of (original) licensing conditions having been met – there seems little reason to withhold ‘re-licensing’ but I can see why they may wish to impose extra conditions (though clearly, as an outsider, I cannot comment on whether those extra conditions have been ‘beefed up’ by local action groups – excuse the pun – to deliberately try and put the venture out of business.)
I am intrigued as to what detailed environmental monitoring has or has not been used by either party (or parties) to confirm or deny the presence of significant odour at the suggested distance of 4 to 5 km away.
My suggestion would have been to install appropriate air quality sampling points along the ‘route’ to town. If the odour production really is that strong (as suggested by the complaints link given above) I would have no doubt that gas sampling and analysis would be able to ‘pinpoint’ the source – I would also be reasonably confident that pig manure and cow manure would generate different odour ‘signatures’, for example?
Would there be any merit in doing such analysis now – even though there are no cattle on the feedlot? – in other words, could there be a ‘control’ set of samples, along with a survey of citizens – which (one would presume) would confirm the ‘no cattle odour’ state of play. Thereafter, on appeal (or as a condition of the appeal being granted?), perhaps a few thousand cattle could be introduced, and with additional sampling immediately adjacent to the feedlot, and further sampling (and survey) of the route to town after an appropriate period. Surely, this would/could scientifically confirm the presence of absence of ‘odour’?
One complainant specifically mentions H2S – which is easily detected in very small concentrations with readily available and not too expensive equipment, for example (I used to do this myself!)
A period of monitoring and scientific analysis could perhaps be offered as some type of agreement between all parties?. If the monitoring clearly shows the problem, and defines how serious it is – correct decisions could be made without either party feeling unreasonably aggrieved – (i.e. control, shut down or continuation as before). It could transpire that the odour IS a problem, but on only certain days, conditions, etc – or that it IS from somewhere else entirely! As the human nose is highly sensitive to H2S – it may simply be the H2S concentration thats the problem, which could be addressed by different feeds, etc, etc (and no – I dont know anything about feeds, farming, or cow farts ! – I am just wildly speculating in the hope it may trigger some reasonable thoughts in others?).
As I read it – there needs to be some serious legal arbitration rather than the us and them ‘fight’ attitude.
I find it amazing that the livelihood of a (supposedly) successful operation seems to be reliant on what really amounts to anecdotal evidence (this is only from what I have read, so I cannot be sure of this!). The environmental health dept, etc, should surely have some scientific evidence before they strap on their size 12 boots and start laying into folk??
I try write this from a neutral view – though I agree with the majority of anti-establishment type comments and can fully sympathise with the Thompsons position.
However, my view (and I don’t mean to sound patronising) would always be to fight fire with fire and try to produce scientific facts. Here in the Uk, we have quite grim odour at the moment with manure spreading, but it never extends ‘kilometres’ – though I’d admit to not wanting to have to suffer it for more than the time it usually takes to drive past – and of course, it is usually a temporary thing anyway. The ‘rural’ area argument is unfair – of course, we expect manure smells in the country – but not suddenly or ‘newly’ imposed on a constant basis on our homes. Hence, if it was shown to be say only a couple of days a month – that would surely be considered ‘normal’ for rural life? It is this kind of information that is difficult to extract from the reporting, but it is exactly this kind of information that needs to be made available for anyone to make a reasonable assessment.
Just my view… and good wishes to the Thompsons
I can understand some readers may be sceptical. I am sure the issue is not as simple as it may at first seem, from either side.
However, I trust Anthony, he’s always been straight and clear, and he has actually met these people. I also trust Jo.
I have been a victim of bureaucracy influenced by unscrupulous malicious individuals. My family was threatened with deportation from Australia because some thoroughly unpleasant person (whom I had demonstrated as being professionally incompetent) decided to make allegations regarding my professional activities that had breached my visa conditions. The Department of Immigration saw fit to believe the allegations, and I had to spend $10k on lawyers to prove that what I was doing was within the conditions that the department themselves had set, ie to prove to them what their own conditions actually were! As such, I have every sympathy for the victims here.
My donation sent.
1DandyTroll says:
September 18, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Not sure I get your point? I could take offence at a possible insult to Australians, but I’ll give you the benefit.
Donated via PayPal.
What has happened to the Thompson family is outrageous. Will this lunacy never end?
@Ralph says:
September 18, 2010 at 1:57 pm
This is certainly a tragic story and shows once more what bureaucracy can do to well meaning people. And it’s honourable that Anythony is going out of his way to help his friends.
However, a couple of things don’t quite add up. There’s a report dated April 2008 saying that the DEC wanted the number of cattle be reduced because of odour and waste managment issues.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/09/2211844.htm?site=news
It’s pretty clear from the information in Jo Nova’s article (particularly the links to the council agenda) that despite her appeal to emotions, there’s no link to the climate sceptic comments. the problem had been recognised years earlier. Hence the headcount restriction already occurring before the meeting where the comments were apparently made.
It’s clear that a number of people in the town had strong concerns about the odours. It’s also clear that the authorities tried to work with the Narrogin Beef Producers to improve their standards. One-on-one consultations and liaising with the complainants to try to settle differences without resorting to restrictions etc.
I think a number of occurrences are being conflated to make a conspiracy theory work on this one. Cooler heads might have found a solution, but launching a PR campaign isn’t.
Now, giving money to stop the foreclosure is going to solve what exactly? I know it feels good, and you’re propagandising this to the hilt. But its really just extending the agony for this family isn’t it? Are they going to keep fighting on with something that they can’t afford to run with the current licence?
Better to make a clear break and move on, IMHO.
Given the actual neighbors’ complaints against the Thompsons, this isn’t a matter only of helping them keep their farm. There needs to be a solution to the smell problem. From the neighbors’ descriptions, it is an unusually strong smell. This can happen for subtle reasons, not always easily controlled. But perhaps the college that wrote in complaint might also provide the manpower to study the situation and come up with a solution. In the meantime there is a well-known solution to feedlot odour problems: a little thing called Zeolite. I don’t know if it’s available in Oz, but though it increases costs, it improves relations to neighbours and has the benefit of improving the soil-enriching qualities of manure.
Apart from donating, I think it could also help if politicians in Australia could be made aware of the concern that this is causing. I therefore think it would might a good idea for everyone to voice their objection (or appeal) to the WA State Premier. Here is the contact link for Colin Barnett:
http://www.premier.wa.gov.au/Pages/Contact.aspx
Perhaps a link could be included in the main article. It doesn’t matter if you aren’t an Australian resident; the fact that the concern has global extent, will only help get their attention.
Tony Abbott, leader of the federal Opposition in Australia (against Labor/Greens), could also be made aware of this. He, at least, has taken a tentative stand against Warmunism. Here is his contact link:
http://www.tonyabbott.com.au/ContactTony.aspx
Mike Jonas says:
September 18, 2010 at 4:12 pm
“[…]a major odour problem. The document appears to be genuine, as it contains identification of the WA College of Agriculture Narrogin who would surely complain loudly if misrepresented ”
Excuse me, a COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE that complains about smells from an agricultural business? That’s like a programmer complaining about the need to sit in front of a screen.
@JERoME
‘Not sure I get your point? I could take offence at a possible insult to Australians, but I’ll give you the benefit.’
Why? If yer an australian hacker I frakking insult ya all the way and then some and then I frakking spit on ya, just for a good measure and to make a point, right. But jesus, what kind of a pathetic person are you if you don’t take care of your own?
Thanks for the heads up. Donation sent.
Sent them Ulysses S Grant as a goodwill ambassador. ☺
I suspect some would think a re-enactment of Sherman’s march to the sea would be appropriate.
Larry
Donated some $$$. Good luck and God bless to the Thompson’s.
Donation sent. Good job Anthony for helping carry the torch with Jo and the others on this one!
Thanks for the post. I’ll send along a donation, and linked your post at Free Republic; some response might come from their readers.
This is by no means a problem unique to our friends down under. Numerous American farmers have been subject to legal harassment after city folks bought their place in the county and were shocked, SHOCKED! to discover that agriculture sometimes is associated with smells, dust, and noise. Its like folks who buy a home underneath the departure path of some major metropolitan airport only to discover to their amazement that noisy airplanes are roaring overhead all day. Next thing you know they’re lawyering up.
Thats why I left Australia and took my business elsewhere DVM Msc, PhD
Done.
Treeman : “Reading through the comments I see that a few have posted the complaints from neighbours. They would do well to have a look at Jo Nova’s Smell the evidence post here: http://joannenova.com.au/2010/07/smell-that-evidence/”
I have now read it. Seems there is a second smell!
DirkH : “Excuse me, a COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE that complains about smells from an agricultural business?”
Not the main point, perhaps, but a good one.
It seems to me that, as usual, it is best to cut through the noise and find the main points. Maybe Jo Nova has done this satisfactorily. Even if JN is out somewhat, it is surely the case that the Thompsons were treated [add appropriate adjective] unfairly and our support of them is highly justified.
Would someone care to say when “Matt Thompson started doubting global warming and talking about it publicly” so that we can see where it fits on Jo Nova’s chart?
Unfortunately true, unlike water rights in the U.S. Property usage is not protected by priority of use.
In water law the oldest water claim has priority over all other junior claims. In land use matters the prevailing attitude and accepted norms of the majority trump even land owners who have been doing the same thing for generations.
This has been a problem for all sorts of specialty uses such as agriculture, airports, racing venues (drag strips) out door movie theaters etc.
You could have a working cattle ranch that has been in continuous use for 100 years and if enough environmental whackos move in as your neighbors, you be come the nuisance and they become the “community” and define define the “acceptable use” in the neighborhood.
It would be nice if people actually had to be responsible for their decisions, but in land use situations that is not the case. If I could get enough people of similar world view and attitude to move into a community, I can dictate what long time natives of the community can do, even though I could have and should have known that they all had homes with private hangers and a small air strip in their back yards and like to fly every Saturday morning at 7:00 am, if enough new neighbors move in and complain about the noise from that activity you can drive them out of the their own neighborhood.
It would be very nice if someone some where could get a land mark case ruling that the oldest prevailing use has seniority over newer uses. If there is a pig farm nearby that has been in operation for some time, there is no legitimate claim that a cattle feed lot is a nuisance due to odors.
The same tactic has been used to shut down commercial businesses as it is nearly impossible to prove the negative that your business is not responsible for an odor problem alleged by some hyper sensitive neighbor.
Larry
When properly calibrated, this machine could be located upwind to test complainants’ olfactory objectivity.
It says something about the WUWT blog and Anthony in particular that in order to get to this point on this page after donating a few dollars, I had to wade through seemingly hundreds of similar messages. Thanks for what you to Anthony.
Donation sent.
Keep us posted on how it goes.
Thanks
What all states and provinces need is a “Right to Farm Act” as follows:
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ministry/legsum/FPPR.stm
One buys peacefull pastoral views at their peril. It saves a lot of grief and court time.
As I made my contribution I had some thoughts on smells and people:
I grew up in rural Oklahoma among farms and oil wells. One uncle was a rancher and raised cattle and another was an oilman and raised oil. Anyone who has lived near either will know that they smell. A sour well produces a smell like no other and cow manure stinks. But as my uncles, aunts and cousins didn’t seem to mind the smell that put food on the table I got used to it too.
I later moved to the middle part of the state of Georgia. It was there that I met my wife of 44+ years. Her parents lived in an area that was “blessed” with a paper mill. Now there is a smell with a capital S. During my courtship I was reluctant to visit if the wind was blowing the smell toward the house but I figured that if I wanted to make this beautiful woman my wife that I’d have to get used to it. So I did.
People can get used to any kind of smell if there’s a reason to do so. On the other hand there are those who just salivate at the thought of making trouble. Witness the shenanigans that are the fodder of the neighborhood/homeowners associations. I once bought a large piece of property near Atlanta, Georgia. At the closing I got a 40 page set of covenants – rules as to what was allowed and not allowed on any piece of property. We built our home deep in the woods and well away from the road. In fact, the house could not be seen unless you drove down the drive for several hundred feet, over a hill and around a curve. I was surprised to receive a letter from the attorney representing the homeowners association telling me that I had to remove my boat from the property as it was not allowed. I never did find out how anyone knew that there was a boat on the property nor why it bothered them. A group of small minded people can make nasty neighbors in any country
Ah yes the National Bank – the fair weather friend. Just donated. Good luck Thompson family.
The problem for us in the US is that we are on the same path. TWO MORE MONTHS!! Donation sent.
Another donation from a former Okie. The point about smells is important: sane people will tolerate a smell if it’s part of their community’s productivity. When you get rid of the smell you diminish your own wealth. (Caveat: real pollution like lead is a whole different matter.)
That is why in many rural communities if someone from outside complains about the odor the answer is usually “thats the smell of money”!
Lots of industries have characteristic smells — if you don’t like the smell live someplace else.
Larry
Tom Rowan says:
The Austrailian government sees fit to spend 3 million to fly Oprah Winfrey’s audience to Austrailia and writes it off as “advertising.”
The same Austrailian government sees fit to put farming out of business.
No, not the same government, the Thompson’s is a state issue.
The WA state government is centre-right, roughly the Australian equivalent of the Republicans or Tories, so not exactly the leftist conspiracy it’s being made out to be.
Donation underway.
Donation sent.
I am ashamed to call myself Australian. The tyranny of the unproductive minority and the unadulterated clueless class.
I grew up on a dry-land wheat farm in ND that my grandfather homesteaded 111 years ago. Also traveled fairly extensively around Australia in the 1980’s: Good people; good country; seemed like an island of sanity in the larger mad world around them. And now:
How in the world did that fair land and people ever get themselves saddled with government bureaucrats who would do such a thing for no good reason to hard-working farmers ??… Sad. Very sad.
I had some spare dollars bouncing around my PayPal account; threw a few in the Thompson family direction via the Jo Nova link. Thanks 2 both Jo Nova and WUWT for shining some daylight on this crazy situation.
Dear Amazing People of this World-
We’re overwhelmed — not with our problems, but with YOUR goodness. The extremists of this world would have everyone believe that people are bad and a blight to this planet. We have ever increasing proof that the truth is anything but that. Cash donations, offers of housing, offers of legal advice, food… your generosity is moving, to say the least.
“Thank You” seems utterly inadequate, but it’s all we can say. We hope to repay you by continuing to fight, and hopefully using our atrocious story to make a positive difference.
We’re scrambling to figure out our next move(s). We have no idea what to expect, but are getting advice from all quarters as to how we can respond when action is taken.
In the mean time, know that we are buoyed by your kindness, your support, and most importantly, your recognition that we fight something dangerous and much bigger than just us. We are but one example of the “unintended consequences” of centralised control.
The principles of our story apply to many, many stories right around the world. When non-producers stand over producers and have the power to stop production through complaints and activism, our society is in big trouble.
Warm Regards and Many Thanks,
Matt & Janet
(and Kate, Abby, Will & Luke!)
May I please point out that the WA state gov’t are centre-right, and hence I really doubt the leftist-greens conspiracy that some are suggesting?
Used to live in Northern Nevada. Lots of farming and cattle in the valley south of Carson. California Liberals moved into the area and were passing around petitions to stop the ranching. Ranching is so…so…distasteful. As the Libs nibbled their brie and sipped their chardonnay, the odor and flies were a disagreeable presence that lessened their enjoyment of the charmingly simple pastoral experience.
Mothers, tell your children that California Liberals (and liberals in general) are the Ninth Plague of the Bible. The Plague of Darkness.
Sent a donation, but…..
We have the same trouble right here in River City.
The Spotted Owl Episode was built on a hoax because the liberal activists who had taken over the bureaucracy thought that lumbering was “distasteful”. Some 150,000 jobs were lost. There were no other jobs in those small communities so the people lost everything. Homes, dreams. college for the kids. Everything gone and families crushed by bureaucratic fiat.
A humanitarian disaster greater than Hurricane Katrina. And the vile elitist pigs didn’t care about those people. The people were insignificant, just dirt to be ground under their self-righteous boots.
As the New York Times once said about the murder of 10,000,000 people in the Ukraine (1930’s): “You can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs”. And you can’t make a Utopian Paradise if you worry about the insignificant. Like you and me.
Franz Kafka understood. “Everyman” being crushed by a mindless self-serving bureaucracy. “The Trial” comes to mind.
http://www.kafka-online.info/the-trial.html
or for just an overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial
Pray for our country and the Thompson family.
We all deserve better.
Steamboat Jack (Jon Jewett’s evil twin)
Just emptied my remaining paypal balance into it. Best of luck.
Anthony thank you for your continuing support for Matt and Janet.
I am Australian, 7th generation to be exact – i too like the Thompson’s had our home taken by stealth of regulation under the guise of “for the good of the environment” and all that encompasses our children lost their home, their land, their country.
Farmers in Australia are now being displaced at an ever increasing rate. Our farmers are suiciding at an escalating pace – i fear for my own son and daughters.
Australian’s do fight! We do stand up – however it appears that a well oiled “green machine” has a very good head start – and we all – world wide need to catch up, stand up, and support our producers on every continent –
Power to the People to reinstate common sense, reinstate Property Rights and bring back compassion and humanity !
Janet H. Thompson says:
September 18, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Dear Amazing People of this World-
—–
Dear Janet, Matt, and family….
YOU are the amazing people of the world!! Thank you for your adherence to your beliefs, and we all hope that you will prevail.
If you have any neighborhood issues with odors from livestock manure, please have Anthony contact me by email. That is one of my areas of expertise. One way to beat these slugs is to engage them in their own tactics, such as using best sustainable practice for your operation (I’m willing to bet that you do that already).
People like you are the foundation of humanity, providing us all with food, raw materials and valuable lessons about life. Your story has touched many.
Cheers, Charles the Dr.P.H. (University of Illinois, USA)
The biggest issue I see here isn’t with the “stink”. The problem more than likely lies with the fact that the Western Australian government has this thing about crushing farmers to make way for mining. I wouldn’t mind betting that within 10 years, there’s going to be a big old dirty open cut mine where this “dirty” feedlot was planned to be… Neighbours be damned.
I do have a suggestion for Matt & Janet though, coming from someone in the industry. Come east 😉 There’s still plenty of room for good hardworking people like you here in central west NSW.
Used to live two miles from the end of an air force runway back before they made engines so powerful the planes could gain a lot of altitude before they passed over my house, on full after-burner. It never occurred to me to complain about the “sound of freedom” passing overhead and rattling my china out of the cabinet. Oh, the other major employer in the area was a paper mill. The smell was terrible but I never complained about that because I knew people who depended on that plant for their livelihood.
I’ve just made a donation to the bank and also e-mailed the story to some of my contacts and asked them to do the same. Hopefully people will continue to do the right thing by the Thompsons. They are such a genuine couple that it would be wrong not to help them out. Good luck in the future, we have not heard the last of Matt and Janet.
Is it possible to have an update of how many have donated?
Sent some Yankee dollars their way.
I grew up on an upstate New York dairy farm. We also ran some pigs, chickens, ducks, bees, you name it. I always thought it smelled good. : ) Whenever I run across the smell, it reminds me of my youthful home.
John
Virveli says:
September 18, 2010 at 11:21 am
Perhaps someone would like to see what the actual neighbours wrote about the facility in their own words?
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
Thanks for this, there is always two sides to a story. First let me say that I live on the edge of a small town, less than 1km from 2 cattle farms, and we occasionally have to endure some fairly pungent smells when the farmers are muck speading on the surrounding fields. I have no problem with this, it is part of country life, and the farms were here long before me and my neighbours.
I read the neighbours’ (and the Agricultural College’s) compliants and there clearly is a very serious odour problem. (I have also read Jo Nova’s response to these, and her graph (of numer of cattle v. number of complaints) is interesting but flawed, as people wouldn’t complain so much early on because they would be cutting the Thompsons slack, in the hope that the smells were teething problems. and there surely be many other factors). The neighbouring residents don’t appear to be typical greens or eco-tards (their points are well reasoned unlike most ecotards’ posts on the Guardian or Independent). Some made the important point that they had settled in the town 50 years ago, and had had no problem with the old pig farm, as they recognised that as a typical rural activity (and it was there before them). The Thompsons came to the area only a few years ago with a new much larger scale agricultural operation. It seems that public assurances given to locals that there would not be any smells proved to be false, and many of the neighbours can longer spend anytime outside, and have to close up all their windows, and retreat indoors (and switch off the A/C), which cannot be pleasant in a hot climate.
So it seems fairly clear that this cattle feeding lot should not have been granted a license as it is far too close to the existing residents and town. And 10,000 cattle may be small compared to what they have in Texas, but I have no doubt that 10,000 intensively reared cattle will make a hell of a stink, even with good waste management policies and practices.
So while I have sympathy for the Thompsons, and recognise that they have undoubtedly been messed around by the bureaucrats in the environmental agency, they started the enterprise in the wrong location. The root of the problem is not the bureaucrats trying to shut down the Thomsons, it is that they granted them a license in the first place. Sadly, the long term solution is for the Thompsons to cut their losses and relocate the business to somewhere more appropriate. So I am with John in CA and Mike Jonas and won’t be donating.
“The root of the problem is not the bureaucrats trying to shut down the Thomsons, it is that they granted them a license in the first place.”
So, you’re saying it’s still not their fault, but that’s your rationale for not helping? That’s [snip].
I hit the button, and I hope it helps!
John says:
May I please point out that the WA state gov’t are centre-right, and hence I really doubt the leftist-greens conspiracy that some are suggesting?
The centre right government as you call it took over in Sept 2008,after the damage had already been done.
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/07/tyranny-how-to-destroy-a-business-with-environmental-red-tape/
just to clarify: We obtained a Works Approval (#3600) from the Department of Environment in 2002, and final go-ahead in 2003, after being on hold over a year. That works approval (permission to build) was site-specific. We received permission to construct a 14,940 head beef cattle feedlot in this location. We’ve had 5 licences so far, and had staged our development, so there is a different throughput noted on each one.
We have built to a capacity of 10,000, and operated at that level prior to 2008, when the DEC cut our throughput to 6,000 head max. They knew that we could not cash flow this, because we had already invested the capital to build the infrastructure to 10,000. Even if there were true environmental problems (which there weren’t), surely an established business should be able to effectively operate through those problems. As someone has so rightly pointed out, the piggery was allowed to do so (although the piggery was still very much on the front page when we came to town…the complainants just turned their attention to us; the piggery is a great neighbour, and we have a great life on-site, but you know what? It smells often, and occasionally, it smells horrendously. We would never complain, as we knew they were there before we bought our property, and we are proud that they are producing Australian pork!)
John says:
May I please point out that the WA state gov’t are centre-right, and hence I really doubt the leftist-greens conspiracy that some are suggesting?
The libs formed a coalition government with independents in Sept 2008,after the damage had been done to the Thompsons
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/07/tyranny-how-to-destroy-a-business-with-environmental-red-tape/
just to clarify: We obtained a Works Approval (#3600) from the Department of Environment in 2002, and final go-ahead in 2003, after being on hold over a year. That works approval (permission to build) was site-specific. We received permission to construct a 14,940 head beef cattle feedlot in this location. We’ve had 5 licences so far, and had staged our development, so there is a different throughput noted on each one.
We have built to a capacity of 10,000, and operated at that level prior to 2008, when the DEC cut our throughput to 6,000 head max. They knew that we could not cash flow this, because we had already invested the capital to build the infrastructure to 10,000. Even if there were true environmental problems (which there weren’t), surely an established business should be able to effectively operate through those problems. As someone has so rightly pointed out, the piggery was allowed to do so (although the piggery was still very much on the front page when we came to town…the complainants just turned their attention to us; the piggery is a great neighbour, and we have a great life on-site, but you know what? It smells often, and occasionally, it smells horrendously. We would never complain, as we knew they were there before we bought our property, and we are proud that they are producing Australian pork.
@
Andrew P. says:
September 18, 2010 at 11:05 pm
“So while I have sympathy for the Thompsons, and recognise that they have undoubtedly been messed around by the bureaucrats in the environmental agency, they started the enterprise in the wrong location. The root of the problem is not the bureaucrats trying to shut down the Thomsons, it is that they granted them a license in the first place.”
The root of the problem is that the bureaucrats APPROVED this feedlot – Matt & Janet played by the rules – they complied as the bureaucrats directed – on the bureaucrats directive –
So let me get this straight, you sympathize, yet you do not think that the bureaucrats are accountable in any way here? Pfffft!
Further that this is Matt and Janets fault – seriously! (ref “So it seems fairly clear that this cattle feeding lot should not have been granted a license as it is far too close to the existing residents and town.”)
Ah yes the complaints – i happen to be very familiar with them – i suggest that everybody read them.
Hm, environmental group, wild accusation’s about other people investing money, oh i cant have a BBQ, and the biggy – it affects my value of my land to subdivide!
And they all mention these points well, almost word perfect! What a jolly coincidence! Amazing!
It could be claimed that with an operating feedlot, that like the piggery and the Ag College, for other residents who wish to subdivide – this could be a great incentive for young people to come into the area build and have employment opportunities WITH an operating feedlot – it appears the “boat has sailed” for that marketing opportunity for the complainants!
Maybe that wasn’t the reason after all – really does stink doesn’t it – just cant seem to pinpoint the odor problem – well, it seems to waft from the bureaucrats imho.
Good to read this point of view though, (above) it just strengthens the plight of the Thompson Family is fact – the family have been “screwed over” with all accountability on them , and none on the bureaucrats, financial facilities own scrutinizing on the loans – after all they must have believed the bureaucrats (DEC / EDO) as well – bugger ‘ay!
Andrew P. : “The root of the problem is not the bureaucrats trying to shut down the Thomsons, it is that they granted them a license in the first place. Sadly, the long term solution is for the Thompsons to cut their losses and relocate the business to somewhere more appropriate.“.
If the bureaucrats granted a licence then the Thompsons are entitled to compensation if they have their licence revoked or reduced or are forced out – provided they complied with the licence conditions of course.
Andrew P. “So I am with .. Mike Jonas and won’t be donating.“.
I assume that you mean you are with me on the logic, and not that you are making an assumption about whether I have donated. But re the logic – my last comment said “it is surely the case that the Thompsons were treated [add appropriate adjective] unfairly and our support of them is highly justified.“, and I don’t quite see how that leads to not donating (not that it is any of my business whether or not you donate).
I am not in a good economical situation right now, but what the h*ll…
My two cents.
I mean, my 10 dollars.
Please someone sue those inhuman “environmentalists”. Is there no australian lawyer reading these news?
adrian says: September 18, 2010 at 12:57 pm Kev-in-UK says: September 18, 2010 at 5:53 pm Mike Jonas says: September 18, 2010 at 7:23 pm and others
Thank you for your posts,
Miasma (foul air), an early theory of diseases (refer to wiki) led to much of the global public health agenda and travel in mapping disease and providing relief. The medical profession prefer in their history to omit the work of engineers in alleviating disease and death.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/bazalgette_joseph.shtml
This article provides a reasonable overview of the work of the metereological and epidemiological societies in dealing with the cholera http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1081893/pdf/medhist00108-0037.pdf
Miasma theory evolved to post-facto measurement of death (notably children most at risk of death from cholera), the pulling of the communal pump handle by Dr Snow and spatial mapping http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2010/04/john_snow.php
The media has reported a large number of suicides of recent in Narrogin, http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/narrogin-suicide-fund-runs-out-20090202-7vmd.html and the international NGO Oxfam has responded by injecting funds, with a new model of health proposed, through state funding, to alleviate these reported events.
The WA Coroner does not provide information about this dreadful situation http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/I/inquest_findings.aspx?uid=9349-4756-3915-2531 so there is little information that other agencies can employ to further avert such human catastrophe in a small regional town.
Given the funding expected by the Narrogin Agricultural College ($22 million+8), it is very concerning that a rural town with such potential for industry and innovation has so many problems. http://narrogin.wa.gov.au/COUNCIL/Minutes/Full%20Council/2009/2.%20Mar09%20OCmins.pdf
For anyone interested in the work by Koch, mining and engineers on malaria and TB, wiki has a link:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory_of_disease and SSPI also has a recent article on malaria and the legacy of banning DDT. ‘Three billion and counting’ http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/
I wish the Thompson family all the best in this situation. My thoughts are also with families and colleagues, of those young men who died.
@ Andrew P:
“The root of the problem is not the bureaucrats trying to shut down the Thomsons, it is that they granted them a license in the first place”.
Then if the problem has been created by the bourocrats, it is THEM who have to solve it. If their wrong doing has caused severe losses to the Thompsons, THEY should run with the debts. Is it expensive? Well, sorry. It was THEIR decision and it is THEIR responsibility. When they pay, I’m sure that the Thompsons will have no problem at all moving the business to another location.
Or, if they don’t want to pay, they can just allow the business that they had already allowed back in time.
This is yet another sad day for Australia. And sorry, I still don’t have any spare money to donate with either to these people or any others TBH, I have to work because there are so many on welfare here that I am forced to support.
Bob Brown, the Greens MP, is pushing for voluntary euthanaisa laws to be relaxed. Hummm….thin edge me thinks!
Dear Andrew P., et al-
Thank you for making comments in this open public forum, so as to allow us an opportunity to respond directly. We appreciate that heaps.
We definitely encourage everyone to look at all sides of the story. The link provided above does not do that very well, as it is to a pdf with only a small portion of the opinions on this story. Here is the link that contains everything that happened at the Local Community Consultative Committee meetings:
http://narroginlibrary.wordpress.com/whats-on/community-stuff/
The “neighbour” presentations demonstrate very well the ulterior motives that exist behind some of these complainants.
Property values actually increased dramatically while we were operating. There is a link provided.
Also provided are comments from neighbours who were positive about our business. “Neighbour Report – Bill Furness” is from Bill and Pete Furness, who live between the feedlot and a couple of the most bitter complainants.
There is a link to “Farmer Presentations” in which local farmers speak positively about the feedlot.
We have been open and honest about our business from Day 1. We’re proud of that, we’re proud of our facility, and we’re proud of our community. Please, if you have genuine questions or concerns, put them up here and we’ll attempt to answer. Anthony Watts and Joanne Nova at least provide that venue for communication. Without this, the white ants (termites) would never be exposed to the light of day.
We’re thankful for the Internet and for good people who care about truth.
Andrew P — if the solution is that Matt and Janet have to relocate then it should be the bureaucrats or the organisation that employs them they “should cut their losses” and PAY for Matt and Janet to relocate. As you correctly say they gave the licence and permits in the first place (ie they made the errors –if indeed there were any errors) .If they now what to change the rules THEY PAY.
Donated my bit to help stave of this disgusting piece of green fascism.
While my heart goes out to this family I believe feedlots are not an acceptable farming method. They increase the rate of problems such as Salmonella and have been described as concentration camps for cattle. I am an environmental sceptic, and believe much of what is published here makes a lot of sense, but as a small holder in Wales I still think animal welfare is important and would rather pay more for good quality beef, than see animals suffer for the sake of cheap burgers.
Donation made.
Disgraceful situation – I hope everything works out for them.
Can we have the name of the Principal officer in the Australian Government driving this matter ? Our donations need to be backed up by forcedful direct criticism of his/her conduct.
The account will need a Swift number, or at least an IBAN code, to make an international transfer.
Just as important. … Which newspapers do we write to?
Andrew P.
Your comments give a great insight into your character.
Unlike you I am more than happy to make my donation to this unfortunate family.
Hope you will all bear with me as I comment in response to a genuine question and a couple of comments above.
Matt spoke out publicly against greenhouse gases being included in the National Pollutant Inventory (NPI) reporting in Australia in May 2007 (I think it was the 17th). That, we believe, is when the Environmental Defender’s Office (EDO) got involved. They came to Narrogin and got the local handful of people opposed to us organised – got them incorporated and taught them how to use the legal system to gum up the works.
That group of complainants existed from the beginning. We were on hold over a year getting all approvals in the beginning, and the core local complainant appealed that approval. This same group was complaining bitterly about the piggery before we moved here, and before we had any cattle. They were determined to be against us.
As for DEC, Matt first reared his head in 2005 on the NPI issue, as this Government entity was going to force producers to admit to polluting annually (subject to a fine) and then put up all personal details on one centralised database. The whole NPI system was fraught with problems – lack of science being the primary one. We have an email that we got through the second FOI request (they had succeeded in hiding it the first time!) in which an NPI employee writes to our regulator and says, “Heads up, this guy’s causing trouble.” (I paraphrase.)
In summary:
Complaints existed from the beginning;
Complaints increased whenever we went to renew our licence;
DEC only began relying heavily upon those complaints after Matt began “causing trouble” on the NPI / Greenhouse Gas issue, but MUCH more obviously after the May 2007 public meeting in Perth;
The EDO of WA, animal rights activists and many ulterior motives have been actively at play on our case.
*****
In response to the animal rights comments, we take offence at generalisations that imply or openly state that feedlots are bad for animals. We are VERY proud of our animal welfare standards, and we were friends with Temple Grandin before Hollywood made her famous outside of animal agriculture circles.
Please watch our two-part YouTube video for a 12-minute summary of our story:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgFPDcPr5yA
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCsi1Inc-rE&feature=related
Again, thank you all for your support and your willingness to engage.
Kind Regards,
Janet
1DandyTroll says:
September 18, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Now I’m sure I don’t get your point.
Q1: What do you mean by “an australian hacker”?
Q2: What makes you think I/we “don’t take care of [our] own”?
Are you trying to say you refuse help because Australians are not helping? If so, it is obvious they are. I might also point out there a bloody sight more Americans here who can help, and the guy was originally an American as I understand it.
A may be failing to address your point, and for sure you have the right to cast insults, but they tend to be more effective when comprehensible!
I’ve done my bit to support the Thompsons, well done Anthony for setting up this appeal.
Whilst reading Jo Nova’s blog about the Thompsons, I came across this link which was posted in the Comments:
It’s 16 minute video which demonstrates quite clearly that a very similar situation is happening right now in the USA. The description of the video from the site is “A short documentary covering the emotional and economic woes of the residents of Hatteras Island in the Outer Banks of North Carolina due to beach closures and excessive measures taken by the National Park Service and environmental groups.”
Amongst other official actions of crass stupidity the video depicts perfectly how NOT to preserve and protect a particular species of creature (in this case the piping plover).
At the instigation of the Audubon Society the National Parks Service is shooting any predatory species in the “sanctuary”. This is NOT the way to ensure a healthy population of the prey species.
It is the heartbreak of the affected human population which is the worst thing to watch.
The self-appointed green “authorities” are doing to the people of the USA what the same greeny-inspired “authorities” are doing to the Thompsons in Western Australia.
Thank you Anthony for bringing this story to light. Donation sent via PAYPAL.
What is it with politicians in this world. Can anyone tell me why they are so intent on destroying.?
@Ralph
September 19, 2010 at 2:19 am
“The account will need a Swift number, or at least an IBAN code, to make an international transfer.”
———————————————–
IBAN and Swift is not a world wide thing, but you can use a credit card on the link provided, I used my Visa Card, very fast and no problem whatsoever
Messages sent, money on the way. It is time to make a stand, I hope that it is significant enough reaction and result to define the anger and frustration at the way we are being treated.
May the US path be made easier too with this demonstrated groundswell of support.
Time to jolt some politicians!!
Pressed the button,
The world is your back yard,
on the 1st of July here in Germany we held a barbecue in our back yard, Police, (6 ) Fire engines (3) court costs Euros 1,750… It is Verboten to barbecue in a residential area, in court we learned that the police had received complaints from 6 of our neighbors, (even the good smells ) but this is Germany and I still have 1 year and 4 months of my contract before I can get out, not even if they double my very generous salary!
Ziiex.Zeburz,
I am shocked!
Whether or not there really is an iussue with smelln is not the point here.
The permits were given and they inveseted their money based on this.
If the laws change or the particular government department concerned has a change of mind is not good enough. If that is the case they should at least have been given leniency or financial assistance in order to comply with the new situation or even to relocate.
The department changing their minds on a whim is not good enough when it destroys lives.
I think the whole issue stinks!!
I welcome the Thompsons to Australia. We need more like you.
Donation made by direct online transfer.
Ziiex.Zeburz says:
September 19, 2010 at 4:06 am
here in Germany we held a barbecue in our back yard, Police, (6 ) Fire engines (3)
3 Fire engines. must have been one helluva BBQ! Or maybe they are a little over sensitive to smoke and fire!
Is anyone reading this post chums with Christopher Booker of the Telegraph? If so, let him know – it’d be great to see an article about this in a UK broadsheet. As an investigative journalist, this is right up his street. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/
~Done
Noelene:
The centre right government as you call it
I do.
took over in Sept 2008,after the damage had already been done.
Nevertheless, they are in charge now, and have been for over a year. They are not powerless to act. The responsible state minister is Donna Faragher.
@Ziiex.Zeburz
“It is Verboten to barbecue”
How about this then:
I live in Denmark, next to Germany
Imported from Germany 2 air-guns, completely legal to own (and plink with in your garden whilst barbecuing) in Denmark of cause
Did all the papers, lots of red-tape involved
A couple of month after, I was contacted by my very friendly local sheriff, he had just received a letter from Interpol about these air-guns and he wanted to know what it was all about..
Told him, case closed (you do not need and cannot get a license in Denmark for something that do not require a license of cause)
I also read the link posted by Virveli
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
It is good to have some of the other side of the story and to hear directly from Janet Thompson. I have some experience of being on both sides of this kind of thing.
As a resident in the midst of a group opposing local planning planning permission, I had only minor concerns and was prepared to work constructively with the planned site rather than against it, but I saw my fellow residents come up with absolutely ridiculous objections grounded on nothing more than unquantified fears and speculations.
In a professional capacity I have been involved as a technical advisor to a facility seeking planning permission for expansion of a processing site that does generate smells. There was local objection and they did have some grounds for complaint, but the company had constantly exceed their regulatory obligations. The processing site had been historically part of the area and predates the occupancy of the most vocal residents. We have seen activist groups come in and organise the residents and pull in irrelavant extrapolations from other unconnected locations.
The objections in Narrogin seem to me to have some valid basis, but as each one reads in a similar way there is that sort of organised ‘group think’ in operation.
One that jumped out at me was the man who was concerned about dangerous levels of hydrogen sulphide. I’m not even sure of the importance of hydrogen sulphide in this case (ammonia may be as strong in the odour), but quoting those levels is just silly. Hydrogen sulphide is detectable (and identifiable as the characteristic rotten egg smell) by the human nose at 0.2ppm or less. 10ppm is the 8 hour occupational exposure limit. If it was ever anywhere near the levels of 50+ppm he quotes, it would have had serious health implications for the animals never mind the residents.
Hello Janet and family,
I am sure the WUWT and JN bloggers would like to assist more.
With four children and a pet blue tongue, your family’ situation is of prime concern in the coming days.
I have some suggestions on behalf of the blogging family:
Someone(s) to direct and pull info posted together or for the media to be aware of this site and take direct information for reporting purposes.
Anthony and team to do meterological data of area
Someone, as I can see, to follow up on legal issues
Raise issue with the media and others
Economics of area
Brief history of your area
Someone to take Library info and analyse (I am happy to do some of this, as there interesting issues with the community consultation statistics already noted)
If we can use our skills and perhaps use this site or CAPS site to bring all the information posted together.
I understand that there are many more people (Ontario thread) but likely in Australia that have had similar stories of red tape, including the grief of having lost a family member(s) or colleague(s) through suicide.
Tom Rowan says:
September 18, 2010 at 9:22 am
The Austrailian government sees fit to spend 3 million to fly Oprah Winfrey’s audience to Austrailia and writes it off as “advertising.”
The same Austrailian government sees fit to put farming out of business.
Hey Oprah! Have your audience pack globalony sandwiches! Food is being outlawed in Austrailia!
———————————————————————————-
Milwaukee Bob says:
September 18, 2010 at 10:01 am
Tom Rowan said at 9:22 am
The Austrailian government sees fit to spend 3 million to fly Oprah Winfrey’s audience to Austrailia and writes it off as “advertising.”
You can’t be serious! Are you saying BILLIONAIRE Winfrey DIDN’T pay for that?? You have proof of that? She gets all the kudos while the Aussie Gov. forks over taxpayer money to ???? What? Pamper a few hundred Americans? Or kiss her butt? Three million! Wow! I didn’t you folks were doing so well down under…..
That’s just not right! And don’t anyone even speculate that if per chance I was in the audience that day if I found this out before leaving that I would still go. And Australia is on my buck list! [snip]
———————————————————————————
John says:
September 18, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Tom Rowan says:
The Austrailian government sees fit to spend 3 million to fly Oprah Winfrey’s audience to Austrailia and writes it off as “advertising.”
The same Austrailian government sees fit to put farming out of business.
No, not the same government, the Thompson’s is a state issue.
The WA state government is centre-right, roughly the Australian equivalent of the Republicans or Tories, so not exactly the leftist conspiracy it’s being made out to be.
————————————————————————————
http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Oprah-makes-Australian-govt-pay-33-million-to-fly-her-entire-audience-down-under-3519399.html
Oprah makes Australian gov’t pay $3.3 million to fly her entire audience down under
Technically I should title this story “Oprah lets Australian government pay…” because it’s not like she forced them to foot the bill and the details are vague as to whose idea it was. Oprah claimed on her Show that she thought it up. It’s still possible that the Australian government pitched the idea to Oprah’s people as a way to boost Tourism, or maybe it was Oprah’s people’s idea and the Aussies signed on and even offered to pay. Either way, officials seems to be thrilled that Oprah is coming to Australia with her peeps and they’re more than happy to pay for it. Technically it’s the Australian people who are paying for it through their Tax Dollars and it’s not like they got to vote on it. In comparison to a lot of other government expenditures, this seems like chump change. Still, this is Billionaire Oprah we’re talking about, she could have paid for it.
————————————————————————–
So, if Western Austrailia is a state like California, then Austrailia’s “federal” government is sitting on its hands as eco-terrorists gut the farming industry.
Do I have that about right?
Now that makes perfect sense.
In California, water was cut off to farmers to “save” a minnow.
Obama and Oprah have sat on their hands as eco-terrorists as California eco-terrorists “cause(d) a loss of 60,000 to 80,000 jobs and over $2 billion in lost revenue” in California’s central valley.
Same eco-terrorists posing as concerned government bearucrats and “enviromentalists.”
Same [snip], different continent.
I’ve done my bit too and donated. Thanks to Anthony and co for bringing it to our attention.
It seems strange that there were no complaints for 2 years, until 2007, and then you had 10 or 20 per month. Were these complainants the same 20 or so individuals making multiple complaints, or does each complaint represent one unique individual? What percentage of the total population of the town does this represent? The point I am getting at, is if the odour problem is as bad as some are implying, then I would expect the whole town to be complaining. If these complaints actually represent a small number of the same individuals, then that smacks of activism for political reasons – persecution really.
@HB
September 18, 2010 at 6:11 pm
It seems you haven’t really bothered to read the articles and comments from Jo Nova’s site in any detail, or you wouldn’t be dismissing the reasoned analyses and level-headed responses to criticism there (some from the Thompsons themselves) as an ‘appeal to emotion’. Complaints evidently centred around a small group of people (who had been complaining about local farms prior to the Thompsons setting up their business), were not backed up with any evidence and seemed to intensify following the involvement of an activist NGO- this suddenly after Mr Thompson vocalised his AGW scepticism. This organisation proceeded to organise and mobilise the complainants into launching a concerted effort to shut the Thompsons down. A local official reminding the Thompsons that ‘they got Al Capone in the end’ [sic], while not only painting a sinister picture of the spitefulness of WA officialdom, confirms in my mind that this issue goes way beyond a few nasty smells (particularly as complaints do not correlate with meteorological conditions, number of cattle and are unsubstantiated outside the 20 or so complainants). A conspiracy theory isn’t necessary to see this for what it is – bullying by a leftist eco-lobby that has ingratiated itself with the Government machine, and chooses to assert its sanctimonious, unproven world view by making an example of those who disagree with it. The Thompsons it seems did everything in their power to minimise the environmental impact of their farm and engage in sustainable farming practices (read their comments) – if they are being punished for this, where will the idiocy end?
I agree with the gist of this message. But I don’t see how the Freudian adjective to the West Australian government can help.
REPLY: You don’t get it, you are over thinking it. It’s satire and a humor play on the topic – think source of the smell. – Anthony
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/discovering-how-to-sniff-a-glass-of-wine.html
The British Society of Perfumers http://www.bsp.org.uk/
International Flavours and Fragrances http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/perfume/article/0,28804,1618617_1618614,00.html
From Narrogin Library files: 3/5/2009
Local Consultative Committee to CEO of DCE with cc to Minister of Environment
………….. In and following the Minister’s appeal decision of early this year she created the Narrogin Local Community Consultative Committee to provide advice relating to the licencing and operation of the Narrogin Beef Lot.
P6 Improved odour performance.
Under the auspices of the Department of Agriculture and Food there has been odour monitoring in Narrogin town for several years. In May two years ago the monitoring evolved to be based on the following:
_____________________________________________________________
Three trained and anonymous odour observers at three confidential locations in town were to make odour observations every day at 9 AM, 3PM and 9PM. Odour levels were assessed on a scale of 0 to 6. This yields about 6000 observations over two years.
__________________________________________________________
with thanks to Baa Humbug on the ‘Gavin to attend AAAS We Shall Overcome Seminar’ blog
Anthony
PayPal worked for me today.
Donation done!
HB says:
September 18, 2010 at 6:11 pm
There are four children involved, fairly young ones at that. Giving money will provide their parents with a chance to house, clothe and feed them.
Perhaps there will be enough money to hire a lawyer. Now that the Thompsons no longer have to service their debts, they will be able to spend some of the money they receive to get the qualified legal help that they have no been able to get until now. That is, provided their creditors do not seize all of their means to receive money. That often happens in such cases.
I don’t see how your argument is any less emotional than those for giving the Thompsons a helping hand. Let me see. To shorten the agony will do what, prevent the Thompsons from being able to buy enough rope to hang themselves with and thereby keep all of them safe and sound?
Is being thrown on the garbage pile a better solution than to have the Thompsons feed themselves and their children for a while longer until they manage to get legal government assistance in the form of welfare payments?
To shorten the agony means that the children are made to pay for the sin of their parents — political incorrectness — right now, rather than later.
“REPLY: You don’t get it, you are over thinking it. It’s satire and a humor play on the topic – think source of the smell. – Anthony”
I know, and I giggled 🙂 I was just thinking of a fraction of your potential public for this message who might be put off by it. On the other hand, you may win some people for this little joke.
Sorry, should have been “they have not been able to get until now.”
I’m in for 100.00, for a couple of reasons, because its terrible what is being done, because Anthony saw fit to ask for help on their behalf and I respect and trust him, and because despite spending an awful lot of time on this blog, I had never hit the paypal button to contribute to it. So consider my donation sent in your name Anthony.
I have worked in agriculture for 25 years as an agronomist and scientist. In canada this farmer would not have the right to get as big as possible to be more cost efficient. Many municipalities have banned large industrial type operations of piggeries or cattle feedlots. If he made the expansion without the necessary permits for the 15000 head feedlot he took that risk and he did so knowingly. Rather than his global warming denier ideology being punished as Anthony suggests, its more likely the more common scenario of public pushing back against industrial farming. The fact is these large farms cause both odour , waste management and ground water and should be built well away from towns etc. I think the farmer should be compensated if its proven the permits were revoked after he expanded but if he assumed he would get the permits then it’s his mistake alone.
the world is truly upside down these days, link worked fine for me BTW
The Green Fundamentalism it is worse than any other fundamentalism because it spreads wider and its fanaticism menaces the future of the human kind.
It WAS a joke to laugh at, now it is a loaded gun pointed at the head of humanity.
*****
HB says:
September 18, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Now, giving money to stop the foreclosure is going to solve what exactly? I know it feels good, and you’re propagandising this to the hilt. But its really just extending the agony for this family isn’t it? Are they going to keep fighting on with something that they can’t afford to run with the current licence?
*****
If it buys the family one more month to fight this idiotic, socialist-leaning government for one more month and keep the story going, it will have been worth it. I’m not knocking Australia only for this, the US is going down the exact same road and we in the US need to take a lesson from it. Vote against the most socialistic party in the US in November!!!
On the Oprah Winfrey topic:
Look Here, Here and finally, from the BBS Here
Disgusting!!!
People need to make some noise about this BS!!!
Just donated.
I know exactly how it feels to be cut up by the little STASI-people existing everywhere.
Hope you make it.
Dan
Yeah, reminds me of the people that buy a house on a golf course and then bitch about betting hit by golf balls.
Virveli says:
September 18, 2010 at 11:21 am
Perhaps someone would like to see what the actual neighbours wrote about the facility in their own words?
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
————–
thank you for the opportunity to see what the rest of the immediate community says.
I suggest everyone needs to read this as well.
while I personally do not like the Govt of WAs attitutude on green and climate issues and MIS use of the same in other instances.
recent examples. allowing GM crops into the state.
forcefully resuming 3X the stated land for a GAS? project in privately owned and native title lands?
taking the artesian water rights ON a farmers land, and giving it to a new Posh housing estate for the rich on the bay next door, leaving him unable to farm or use or sell his land.
Jailing a man for clearing regrowth bush to farm on, while all around IS cleared for grain.
this is a quandary for someone who disapproves of CAFO operations at all.
I posyted a heads up due to the facts that:
The Thompsons were encouraged to come and allowed to function.
then, the rules changed, and for that reason I protested.
it appears there are 2 Councillors with stated VESTED financial interests?
It pays to ask WHY?? is the bank foreclosing now, after stating a later date?
I would wonder what sense that makes?
unless?
they have one of the Other OS based CAFO operators looking for a real bargain?
being real No One else would be able to buy or use it for anything else unless the entire site is gutted.
The Thompsons made one Huge mistake, they placed their HOME on the said business property thereby allowing themselves to be forced from their home in forelosure. its why you never mortgage the home to your busines either. lose one lose all.
I do feel sorry for them, however I wonder how many of you would be happy to have a feedlot near your home? seriously?
Americas own soil and water has serious issues from this style of massive scale farms right now.
do you think that Aus or anywhere else needs it, I wonder.
watch Food Inc or Dirt.
the E coli salmonella and antibiotic resistance issues in American Beef is from this type of CAFO and processing.
cattle have 4 stomachs to digest lignins in grasses and woody browse, they are NOT meant to eat garin in large amounts, soy and corn GM waste and trash, GM cottonseed meal (or bits of other animals, remember mad cow? animal meat and bone IN feed.(still happening IN america people)
they oddly enough also dont double their growth using Implants to speed development in their natural form either.
In Aus we have massive areas that need to be browsed to keep fires down, yet the Green laws Ban that? they are not suitable for any other income or use in most cases, cattle survive where sheep die.
The recent huge fires were fuelled by undergrowth that needed to be thinned and grazed.
Kyoto agreement made any clearing or grazing like this a bad thing.
yet? this style of farming is energy intensive, locally a problem, and we have a whole damn continent that needs a good trimming bush and grass wise?
the Carbon would be recycled direct to the soil along with natural bacteria to support beneficial fertilising, and not a smell to be sniffed.
oh and it would feed people healthy natural food.
Hmm?
hard one, or is it?
Is it an issue of a Family being harrassed?
or is it a fair few other citizens, who lived there prior, being severely inconvenienced?
is it? an appropriate use of the EPA regs.
or is it the new Carbon and other nuttiness gaining ground?
another point.
IF the business went ahead, as planned, the family at least (unlike others OS businesses here) hired locals and paid Australian Taxes.
Fairly good profits in a wideopen market too, lets face it they came here to make money. At Home the markets are fairly well sewn up between a very few massive interests. tyson etc.
its an issue of one families desires to make money over the losses of revenue to the local owners and it appears businesses also. the letter in the link from the local ag college Does need to be read. page 15 16.
people dont take it wrong I feel for the Thompsons, but I have severe isues with the ethics of factory Farms.
hope others consider both sides too.
but Yes! our Govts and the agenda 21 millenium and IPCC Carbon crud are severe issue regardless.
Americas HR 510 is an attempt to make this big agri style farming ALL that you get BTW, you need to check it out, seriously. if you want farmners markets and local fresh food anyway.
being constructive,
The smell factor could be turnd to Huge advantage by underground tanking the watse and powering the town with the methane, then using that waste for worms as Matt already uses the manure
maybe the Govt should fund THAT!!! as a green initiative for renewable powewr resources.
also the phosphates/urea, From the urine are worth a mint to the ag industry if separated.
To those who have questioned whether the Thompsons applied and were given appropriate permits before making the huge capital commitment, and those who have questioned the quality of the waste management systems:
1. Licences were applied for and granted prior to the commitment of capital. Amended licence requirements came later after a few complaints from a small number of people. The vast majority of the locals support the feedlot business and the Thompson family.
2. You would expect the register of complaints about odour to increase when the feedlot had more cattle and decrease when stock was significantly less. The log of complaints do not correlate in this way which is indicative of a campaign rather than genuine complaints about odour.
3. Waste management at the feedlot is state of the art including a significant worm farm.
4. The original license approval was for 15,000 head – which is not large compared some other feedlots in Australia and certainly not large by international standards. Unfortunately, while the Dept of Environment and increase the obligations on the feedlot increasing costs and making economies of scale even more important for profitability, it has reduced the to just 10,000 head, but only after a bunch of hurdles are jumped when it reaches 5,000 head.
5. It is virtually impossible to know whether the obligations of the licence will be met because the clause is so vague. It requires the feedlot to ensure odours escaping from the feedlot do not cause unreasonable loss of amenity to locals. This is far too subjective. Does it mean they could be shut down if on a few occasions a year when operating at peak capacity and the climatic conditions are just right (wind, humidity, temperature), a couple of locals lodge a complaint about the odour? What level of odour would be considered to be unreasonable? Under the new licence conditions the Thompsons could be closed down at any time and if they have to await a departmental enquiry before a determination can be made about any new complaint the business could go broke regardless of the outcome.
6. An extensive piggery has been operating on the property next door for 20 years. The complaints ‘campaign’ about odours seems to have coincided with the Thompsons public expression of scepticism regarding climate change alarmism.
I do not know the Thompsons personally, I have read various reports on the project and have corresponded extensively with members of the Government including the Minister of Environment in Western Australia.
As far as I can tell, the Thompsons have approached the feedlot development in a very professional manner, have taken all reasonable ‘best practice’ steps regarding animal welfare, waste management and environmental care. They have done everything reasonable to meet concerns raised and adjust to the changing license conditions regardless of whether they were justified.
What’s happening to them is a business person’s worst nightmare. How much harder must it be when you are trying to raise four young children in your adopted country?
I researched a bit into this:
From the minutes of the Narrogin Shire Council, where Mrs Thomson sits as a Councillor, May 17, 2007:
http://www.narroginshire.wa.gov.au/council_information/meetings/minutes/2007minutes/17thmay2007minutes/view?searchterm=narrogin%20beef%20producers
“Mr and Mrs Thompson were asked why the feedlot is carrying more than the 6,000 head which is the number identified in the preamble to its current licence. Mr Thompson explained that in August, 2005 the company sought approval from DEC to increase numbers to 10,000 head. He understood that approval would be forthcoming, although it [b]did not appear on the licence[/b] issued at the time. [b]He believed that he had been given verbal approval[/b] by Officers of the Department.” (My emphasis)
I don’t think there’s any legal case to be presented here by the Thompsons.
Mrs Thompson, we’re frank and square here. Who are in the “Thompson Family Foundation” that registered the internet domain of “the Coalition of Agricultural Productivity” that shares your postal address? You seem also to be accepting donations through the Coalition, of which you’re a cofounder, and apparently the sole operator?
From the Minutes:
“If [the feedlot] cannot obtain a licence, the business will not get the necessary accreditation from the organisation that monitors the feedlot industry.”
Do you currently carry such an accreditation? If not, when did that cease?
REPLY: “Who are in the “Thompson Family Foundation” that registered the internet domain of “the Coalition of Agricultural Productivity” that shares your postal address? ”
Ah “Virvelli”, this is typical FUD of anonymous cowards like yourself. Smear other people with their public info from the safe comfort of anonymity yourself. Despicable. But you have proven an important point, that website speaks out about global warming as it relates to agriculture, and the Thompsons had the integrity to put their name on it their words, unlike you. So it’s “ok” for the Environmental Defenders Office of Western Australia to have a website talking about global warming, but not Matt and Janet, and for them to do so, you imply is wrong. Double despicable. They are fighting for their life, doing it in the open, with words, deeds, and education, while you fight from the shadows. How noble.- Anthony
All this discussion about this or that license is an indicator of how big and intrusive the government is. Sometime, and I’m not saying this is the case here, a developer will build a subdivision near a facility or manufacturing plant and then the residents complain and shut down the business. Is this fair? No, it isn’t. With less regulations, the idiot developer or the idiots that bought the houses would have to take responsibility for their actions. I would also point out that even if the man took on more cattle expecting permission to be forthcoming, he could be told to take the number back down to 6,000. Also, it’s the timing of this action that is very suspect. We all know it isn’t about the feedlot, it’s about him not swallowing the global warming BS. I hope the money will allow him to keep up the fight and win. But if not win, at least be a pain in the government’s nether region for a lot longer. Also, the government there shouldn’t be telling people what they can or can’t do with their private property. If they feel they need to cut brush for whatever reason, it is their land and their choice. All this talk about “the commons” is nothing but BS!
I wonder if Virveli is one of those organized complainers?
Lucy Skywalker says:
September 18, 2010 at 2:30 pm
I did send a donation to Oz.
But also, Keith Battye, thanks for that reminder about Zimbabwe.
What I see in places like that is the Chinese coming in, in about 15 years’ time, to rebuild the infrastructure. For their benefit, sure, but because everyone will benefit, and there are no denialists in their way.
——————
Lucy its already happening in a Huge way in Africa and elsewhere,
and the locals do NOT profit, they lose water and land rights employment is not as much as you think its mechanised artificial fertilisers and agri chem. the food and the profit goes to russia china USA and Uae for eg even UK is doing it..
it does NOT help the people of the land, same as IMF loans don’t, all that happens is they have to grow more food to send OS to pay the IMF and their own still starve.
they dont rebuild infrastructure. they get huge incentives like free water dirt cheap land and low wage labour and make Max profit from it. any required infrastructure is provided by the said govts, or not needed as its fly out, on company craft.
try one african area sold the entire fishing rights to a foriegn country, so no one there has the right to free food to supplement their meagre protien intake.
when land bordering a river is blocked off from the local tribesfolk, how do they drink, water their stock, bathe and water their land?
when the artesian bores go dry or saline, the agribiz can leave after milking it for all the profit it can, the people left behind have no options, and no water.
Thanks Anthony for this action.
I have made a donation through Paypal and posted a short notice, with redirection to WUWT and Jo Nova, on the french skeptics blog Skyfall,
http://www.skyfall.fr/?p=579 #883
I intent to make a longer translation tonight and to repost it tomorrow at the same place.
Donation sent. I hope it helps.
Alexander Feht says:
September 18, 2010 at 2:43 pm
John, you are looking at this case from the prejudiced point of view. …
Postponing a solution of this problem by citing various qualifications and stipulations just won’t do. We need to stop this nonsense in its tracks here and now.
====
To be fair Alexander, I was simply asking for additional information.
Thanks Janet for the link to the youtube videos and to Jaymez for the explanation related to waste management practices.
If I’m understanding the situation correctly, the Thompsons are the only party abiding by original contracts for the feedlot development and the Dept. of Environment grandfathered restrictions to the contracts that has caused insolvency.
Its therefore logical to assume the parties representing the water and feed contracts as well as other investors will in turn sue Dept. of Environment for damages under any bankruptcy reorganization. Your tax dollars at work again.
I’ll make a donation later today
Seems like there could be a viable alternative — couple of suggestions:
1. Consider co-oping with the other affected farmers and ranchers and offer an IPO under reorganization. The initial common stock offering would create a resource sufficient to mitigate the legal issues and other public corporations are likely to offer extensive support.
2. In the US, a variety 501c3 alternatives for business including a 501c3 for profit exist. Consider a co-op 501c3 for profit (if its available in Australia) where the feedlot price is locked in for the duration of membership. Inflation is going to be a big issue down the road so producers are likely to see the merit of paying more now to pay less later. The feed contracts could be undercut by members who are also in trouble due to the Grandfathered changes.
3. Consider alternatives like contracts with the UN or wildlife organizations for Rehabilitation of Endangered Species stock to offset the additional 9,000 head. You’d probably end up making more with the offset.
4. Consider contacting the Ag and Industrial Design schools in Australia and offer a competition to elevate an awareness of the situation and to possibly deliver new solutions and better gov. policies.
Wishing the Thompson Family the Best,
John from CA
I hope these donations help – but it seems to me that if the business is run in manner consistent with industry standard practices, approvals can’t be unreasonably withheld when no breach can be demonstrated. Are ALL feedlots in Australia governed by constraints from odor?
This isn’t an Administrative conflict – it needs to be resolved in the Courts. Long passed time to talk to lawyers. Real damages with a cause for action.
Donation sent.
Donated … my first post here at WUWT as well.
Such actions by government are a perversion. In these difficult times, to remove one dynamic family, employer, and upstanding member of the community from the economy, from their basic rights of self-determination, based on technicalities such as this, are how countries signal their collapse, an all-too familiar tale history informs us of, about which we must stand-fast in opposition.
Good luck to this wonderful family – and by extension, to us all who face, or who may face, the ugly presence of an overlarge and involved government such as the founders warned us about in their writings and speeches.
wmar
As for other actions of the Greens it will be a good future business the manufacture of CANDLES.
donated 30 bucks. hope that can help a little
As an Aussie/Welsh Brit.,I’m not overly surprised at the behaviour of Aus. politicians and some bureaucrats. Far too many British ideas from the ‘loony’ left were imported to Aus. with a generally negative effect on business and competitiveness.
I’ve followed the story here and on Jo Nova’s blog. I virtually never support charities, RNLI excepted, but I’m happy to donate A$25.to this unfortunate, hardworking family.
Done, direct to Jo.
I dare say that, with the benefit of hindsight, the Thompson’s invoked the wrath of these activists on that fateful day when Matt handed out dvd’s of GW Swindle. At that moment they were perhaps considered to have crossed the line, from business owners to sworn enemies. They then became targets; their weapons of choice – environmental legislation designed to protect local communities.
When these enviromental laws were passed, it may well have been with the best of intentions; to provide a safety valve to protect communities from exposure to unacceptable levels of pollution and nuisance. Most would agree that these are laudable aims. Yet, following the link to the EDO newsletter is quite an eyeopener to see the way that legislation designed to protect the public is being hijacked by activists to pursue their political goals. It is easy for those with that sort of mind, to come up with the methods to do so. If a law stipulates that if a large number of residents are aggrieved by a nuisance and can close down a business by the sum total of their aggregate complaints, then an activist sees not a safety valve, but a weapon to be wielded. We have seen how they have co-opted the like minded, the zealots and the activists, and organised a carousel of complaints, which accumulating month after month, activate the levers of the state apparatus to achieve their ends. The fact that most residents are not aggrieved and have not complained is forgotten completely.
And the Thompsons are not the only victims either. By hijacking the law in this way, these activists have offended against democracy and the spirit in which these laws were framed – the protection of the vulnerable.
Donation sent.
Note: Just a thought, there are 100 million sheep in Australia. Seems like 10-15k sheep are equal in the feedlot to 6k steers?
Regards,
John from CA
Small donation made, hope it helps in some way. Good Luck!
Actually it’s “there are” not “there is” when the subject is plural.
I tend to agree. The stringing them along as they spent all their money is the more egregious offense, however, not the family trying to start a legitimate business.
Contribution made. Good luck to the Thompsons from Scotland.
Donated. Fight the good fight.
A Little story about the environmental movement here, in Oz,
My Ex-wife wanted to do something diffreent with a career.
Her father was a “Bushy”. He’d moved to the bush as a young man during the depression and learnt to look after himself and his family. Which also meant learning about the environment he was in.
My ex-wife therefore had a connection to the bush.
She’d decided to go back to school to learn land managment.
She subsequently spent the next 6 months drudging through our legaslative and legal system learning environmental law, and did very little land managment eductaion. A coule of field trips in 6 months doesn’t constitute an education.
She’s since given the course away.
My point is… these groups are finding their legal and beuracratic talent through the eductaion system, then fostering that talent in the political and beauracratic system to fight people like the Thompsons.
This is discusting, and very subversive.
Even fighting them, we have years of catching up to do.
The intellectual perpetrators are safe away at at the UN offices in NY
I didn’t have much to donate at the time, but I made a donation anyway. I hope everyone can stave off this nightmare for these good people!
You da man, Anthony!
God bless the Thompson family.
Donation sent.
rgds.
Just for fun I’ve been following this story around the blogosphere. I’m a little surprised. There is definitely a “snoot” factor at some sites. Now I admit, I look at this story through “American eyes” and I have no real concept of how things work in Australia. There is open contempt for Jo Nova and WUWT expressed at some sites. I’m not talking about the usual slums of RealClimate or ClimateProgress, either. These are sites Anthony links to on WUWT! The common complaint is one of a political agenda. Guess what kids…the AGW is now much more of a political debate than it is a scientific one.
The story of the Thompsons illustrates this perfectly.
REPLY: And these other sites stand idly by, criticizing from the sidelines. How gallant of them. – Anthony
Copied my own post on JoNova’s site:
“Greenies are the sand in the gears of modern civilisation – and they intend to be. I have donated $100 to the family and sent all links, including charts (sniff tests versus complaints) from this story to my local member and various parties for urgent perusal and consideration. A “how dare you!?” including all the above was sent to those responsible for this “environmental” fiasco.
Greenies despise the modern world, however use and live comfortably within it with endless complaint. I suggest all contact their local members and those responsible as I did to ensure the message (and our disgust) is duly noted and, hopefully acted upon in a very favourable manner.”
I still have to pay my own child support for a Son I’m not allowed to see – until I can afford the court costs to right the wrongs. This was so easy to give to, I just had to.
Donation sent! Thanks for making it so easy to do what is right, Anthony. I sure hope this works. A pox on faceless, bullying bureaucrats!
God bless your entire family and WUWT for bringing this to our attention. Small donation made, may the army of Davids win this one.
Donation sent. Best of luck to Matt and Janet.
I thought I was donated out for this month — until I read about this crime. I hope the Thompsons can keep their farm and that some powerhouse attorneys can help them against the greenie fascists. The world today is just nuts.
Done – contribution made. Thanks Anthony and Jo for the links and info. Jo’s link to Paypal works a treat. Good luck to the Thompsons. And to hell with the Greens!!!
I donated last night and have become frustrated with some of the negative posts. For those who haven’t investigated these folks, here are some links on them and their operation along with a link to a satelite view of their place.
http://www.rotary5830.org/Alumni/WhereAreThey/thompson.htm
http://www.narroginbeef.com/index_files/Page3144.htm
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl It should be their property in the bottom left of the map. That’s about 5 kilometers/2.5 miles SSW of town.
Dave
Let the people speak.
Donation sent.
Thanks for doing this Anthony – please keep us updated.
Anthony,
If you will forgive apparent fawning sycophancy I would like to state that you are one of the kindest men I’ve never met. Someday I hope to remedy that situation.
I used to “hang out” at another website of great acclaim (and have contributed several articles) but I find their editorial choices and comments moderation of late somewhat inhibiting. If I may may, I have to say that that WUWT has the BEST comment moderation (and topics) of any in the blogosphere.
Your choice to champion the cause of the Thompsons only served to strengthen my convictions. I love to read comments if for no other reason than your treatment of trolls (which leave me laughing out loud) is so pointed and succinct. I haven’t been “snipped” yet and I hope i never will be.
You, Sir, are promoting the job of realists on a planetary basis. God bless you for that.
Dave
REPLY: Thanks for the kind words. – Anthony
Let’s try the satelite view again.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-32.95877,117.163954&spn=0.054733,0.119305&t=h&z=14
We are truly blown away by the response from you all (okay, just most of you!)….especially those of you who say you really couldn’t afford to donate, but did so anyway. You have no idea how strong our feeling of obligation to you is. Because YOU have chosen to give to us, when there are an infinite number of ways to spend that money, we feel a great burden to ensure that your trust and money are not misplaced. We will continue to fight based on principle.
We want to continue to be open and honest. It’s hard to distinguish sometimes between honest people asking honest questions, and people that just want to keep us busy answering questions so that we waste time and cannot get anything done.
Everyone knows us. Everyone knows exactly who we are and what we do. There is virtually nothing about our lives that is unknown. We’re happy for that to be the case, because we are honest and have nothing to hide. We trust that the average person reading comments will recognise the irony of a nameless, faceless person accusing us of being dishonest or less than forthcoming.
Once again, thanks to each and every one of you for your trust and your generosity. We will do our best to not let you down.
Final thought: Without people like Anthony Watts and Joanne Nova in the world, where would we be?
Cheers,
Janet
Thank you all who have sent donations for the Thompson family. You can also help by emailing your disgust to Main Stream Media in Western Australia. Below are a few email addresses.
W A Newspaper contacts:
The West
http:au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/contact/
(does not give a Perth email, only phone no (08) 94823111 )
Email for Sydney Rep Office (The West) cdsilva@wansydney.com.au
Western Australian statewide rural newspaper
farmweekly@ruralpress.com
W A Radio – Perth National:
ABC News Radio – http://www.abc.net.au/newsradio/about/contact.htm
ABC News Rural – wwwabc.net.au/rural/contact/
ABC Midwest & wheatbelt http://www.abc.net.au/contact/contactabc.htm
Anthony, thanks for bringing this up. Paypal worked fine.
Tom Rowan says:
September 18, 2010 at 9:22 am
The Austrailian government sees fit to spend 3 million to fly Oprah Winfrey’s audience to Austrailia and writes it off as “advertising.”
The same Austrailian government sees fit to put farming out of business.
Hey Oprah! Have your audience pack globalony sandwiches! Food is being outlawed in Austrailia!
FWIW, after reading this I sent an email to the Oprah Winfrey Website asking her to look into this. Will be curious to see if there’s a response.
I agree with Dale Stillers comment above regarding the MSM – they have been active in their shirking of their responsibilities to inform Australians of NEWS!
If this is not NEWS what is!
Maybe Australia does not have the numbers to make an impact on our MSM -but with your help here on Anthonys site – we have a chance to bring about awareness and god willing effect changes.
Please help us all here down under – united we can do this. Email them on the links above by Dale – lets help the Thomspons even more, please.
The email address for letters to the editor of the West Australian newspaper is: letters@wanews.com.au
Donation already been made, editors listed above contacted.
MP’s next…. (Sent e-mail to Tony Abbott yesterday)
This story needs to go viral, if the video’s on youtube get another round of hits from everyone and recommendations to sites like Digg, Technorati and Delicious they should get noticed.
WA is a typical democracy that responds in a predictable way to small pressure groups. In addition to a small donation I have sent short emails with this page’s web address to the Government party “The WA Liberal Party”
http://www.wa.liberal.org.au/index.php?option=com_qcontacts&view=contact&id=1&Itemid=185
and there supporters “The WA Nationals” who claim to support farmers
http://www.nationalswa.com/
I recommend those contacting the main stream media also contact the Government.
I think the letter draft from “reader Mark” while well intentioned is a bit off the mark. The State Government Department in charge of licencing is the Department of Environment and Conservation:
http://www.dec.wa.gov.au/
The EDO on the other hand AFAIK is an NGO which operates outside of Government but with government funding. The EDO does not determine licencing conditions, DEC does. DEC operates under the Environmental Protection Act 1986 which can be found here:
http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_304_homepage.html
In particular you would be interested in Section 49 which includes the verbiage which ended up on the ridiculous licence condition A1, which reads:
“The licensee shall ensure that odour emitted from the premises does not unreasonably interfere with the health welfare, convenience, comfort or amenity of any person who is not on the premises.”
Clearly it is open ended and this is where organisations like the EDO can “encourage” neighnours of the Thompsons to complain to the relevant authorities in order to demonstrate that their “amenity” has been “unreasonably interefered with.” The Minister for the Environment (Donna Faragher) also spoke of this condition being applied to other operations in the future when reviewing the appeal to the onerous conditions applied to the Thompsons’ licence.
Incidently, you missed a relevant politician in the list. The local member is a National Party member and Minister for Sport and Recreation; Racing and Gaming, Terry Waldron:
http://www.premier.wa.gov.au/Ministers/Terry-Waldron/Pages/Biography.aspx
His contact info is here:
http://www.premier.wa.gov.au/Ministers/Terry-Waldron/Pages/Contact-The-Minister.aspx
Not prying but what’s their mortgage outstanding?
EnginEar says:
The Thompsons were already committed to water and other contracts that were required for a capacity expansion. They had also run up debt upgrading the infrastructure at the feedlot. I think the debts were in the millions.
To flesh out the knowledge base of the EDO somewhat it is useful to reflect upon their origins as described here:
http://www.edowa.org.au/meettheedo/index.php
you will notice the strong links with the CCWA (Conservation Council of Western Australia). The CCWA is a very outspoken body when it comes to all things green:
http://www.conservationwa.asn.au/
Notice for instance that they are dead against uranium being mined despite its significant contribution in diminishing in reducing GHGs. It is interesting to see their executive:
http://conservationwa.asn.au/content/view/14/30/
VP Mr Gary Warden should be a familiar name for some. He failed as a politician running on a climate change ticket in WA and he also failed miserably in a climate change debate with Prof Ian Plimer some time ago. The debate was organised by the Australian Institute of Geoscientists, and it was interesting because both speakers hailed from the field of geology. I notice that neither of these points are mentioned in his biography.
Hi Guys,
Sad to say that this is my home state we are talking about.
Essentially Green leaning people seeking a tree change have moved from the cities and into many areas in the south west, usually picking the most productive land and buying a hobby farm (<200 acres) and therefore taking the land out of useful production. (I grew up on a hobby farm so I know what I'm talking about there)
The Departments of Government have been pretty much infiltrated with green ideology driven mostly from the universities and so these sorts of things are common place now. (Our farm was resumed by the government over ten years ago to create a "noise" corridor for a steel plant planned to be built over 5 kms away ,that was never built.) A friend of mine is unable to clear half his farm of 10 year old regrowth bushes (not trees) because they have determined he would be clearing the land.
Its not good for the farmers here at present.
But here's the thing, Australians are incredibly sensitive about the US's opinion of us, amazingly so. Any comment on a talk show or in the press in the US is National News over here.
If you can get this up in the main stream media in the US, I'll guarantee you'll see the State Government Ministers involved doing anything to make this go away. Our Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd (ex PM -Don't ask) is in the US right now and if he fielded a question about this at a press conference it would go ballistic nationally here.
Keep up the good work.
Just donated $50. Best of luck! 🙂
– Rasmus
Anthony,
Thanks for making it possible for WUWT people to contreibute to the Thompsons. In addition to the small donation I have made, for anyone who visits my web site and takes advantage of my special offer on a limited edition print of my portrait of the late, great Humphrey Lyttelton performing at a London Jazz club, which I painted a few months before he died, I will donate £10GBP to the Thompsons for each print sold.
http://colinkendall.weebly.com
Hi,
Just wondering where the money is actually going too. Is it going directly into the The Thompsons bank account or into a separate escrow/trust fund. I only ask, because when they are made bankrupt won’t all these donations disappear into the banks coffers?
$50 from me as well
Good luck to you guys
Donated. We in the US take our precious freedom of speech for granted. It’s very sad that farmers in Western Australia do not have the same right to well-reasoned, albeit politically incorrect speech.
Phil from WA says: Our Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd (ex PM -Don’t ask) is in the US right now and if he fielded a question about this at a press conference it would go ballistic nationally here.
Maybe the New York Times could ask a question or two. They may even dedicate an inch or two of column space to the story. ‘news-tips@nytimes.com’
Apply people pressure. Make it go viral.
There’s a field full of heifers right next to my house. It doesn’t smell. I grow some of the meat I eat in the form of chickens. That ‘operation’ doesn’t smell either. In both cases this is because the animals are not overcrowded and fed on the wrong kind of food.
Neither of my previous posts on this thread show up, which only bothers me because it is sad for WUWT whose moderation standards I respect and keep to. There is rather a lot of political green-slamming in this thread. While there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, I do think that people are not distinguishing between a political wrong and a natural wrong. If the Thompsons are being evicted for political reasons that is wrong. But if a farming operation stinks to high heaven something is wrong there too and should be corrected.
Thank God for good ole PAYPAL! Wish it could have been more.
David.
Went to Fez this spring when it was cold and wet. There is a tannery slap bang in the middle of the city and even during the cold and rain the smell is horrendous – they give you sprigs of mint to hold under your nose to keep the evil smell away.
I live in the country and farmers are muck spreading at the moment but we don’t complain as it is part of the natural cycle of their year. As others have said, pig sh*t is the worst, chicken sh*t not far behind and I quite like cow sh*t (especially after the first two). When we first came here (24 years ago) the fields opposite were used for sheep grazing, then the farm was sold and a game farm started up and we now have pens full of pheasant and partridge poults for a few months before being released/sold. They don’t smell but the noise in the middle of the night when something spooks them is interesting and we have learnt to tolerate the additional flies that come into our house particularly when the pens are closest to us. It is only seasonal and the pens aren’t positioned near us every year.
On the plus side, we get quite a lot of escapees in our garden and my cocker spaniel throughly enjoys the sport; it gets her in training for the shooting season ahead!
If you live in the country you expect smells. Send those complaining folks to Fez and they might change their opinions and be a bit more tolerant.
Donation sent.
Donated. I’m from Western Australia and this is very sad to see. Thanks to Jo for organising help for the Thompsons. We do have a decent government and I’m sure the Premier Colin Barnett will do the right thing if the matter is brought to his attention.
Donateion sent! Let’s hope & pray they make it.
AtB
” Richard Sharpe says:
September 19, 2010 at 9:39 am
I wonder if Virveli is one of those organized complainers?”
Mr Sharpe, I am a nobody from Finland, not an organized person at, all I’m afraid.
(Mr Watts himself can testify to my IP location.) The marvels of the Internet make weird things possible!
I would have been worried if there actually had been an administrative or political misconduct of some sort, that would have been unlike the Australia I’m aware of.
I’m relieved to have found out, at least to my own satisfaction, that the local administration and the regulator come out clean.
If an enterprise is mismanaged, it will go under. That’s the cold fact of the free market economy. The Thompsons appear to be two healthy individuals possessing a lot of marketable skills (Mrs Thompson even being a local councillor), so they should be perfectly capable of generating their own income.
Can only afford $15, I’m afraid, but so’s you know, we in the UK also think its outrageous!
As stated Janet stated ‘we are producers’ ……we love producing things……’
There were 25 RESPONSES sought for the Thompsons feed lot (survey found from library documents, will post brief stats on this later).
But a report for Dept Environment and Conservation (DEC) on improving waste management and landfills in the Wagin area – which includes Narrogin Town (population 4238 Area:12km2 7700 tonnes waste disposal/annum p7) and Narrogin Shire population (865 1618km2) shows a different PICTURE (last pges of report and p42-6).
http://www.narrogin.wa.gov.au/Strategic%20Waste%20Management%20Plan.pdf
Various pages are of interest
Back pages of report for PHOTOS of local environmental practices
The differences in practices between the Narrogin TOWN land dump and the SHIRE dump p24-5
eg the townsfolk produce 3x more municipal waste than the rural people (table 5.3.1 p38) but this gets readjusted in the next table to waste/person and seems equivalent between town and rural?
p54 A survey (no appendix of the actual methodology, sampling or questionnaire)
p56-8 July-Aug 2008 Consultation and 2pg Questionnaire READ READ
49 dot points (are these 49 people or 1 h/hold with many gripes?) Town respondents are very unhappy with the general state of the town (So… move or get off your butt and go to your local council meetings!) BIAS – or is that self-fulfilling prophecy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias (for non-survey minded)
p60 6.2.2 FOR SUMMARY OF Q RESPONSES (which responses from what questionnaire) – No response from Shire people (were they asked?)
100% response rate (highly unusual) 129x Narrogin Town people Ox Narrogin Shire
end of chart Will you pay extra (no analysis of rates, rebates and employment/wage status) and table 9.1 also has no costs analysis p82
p Consultants, paid by state government:- Suggestions: –
Earth Carers http://www.wmrc.wa.gov.au/earthcarers (ORT tab and ‘who we are’ tab)
Cities for Climate Protection http://www.iclei.org/index.php?id=2291 (check Board and Supporters and also global ICLEI http://www.iclei.org/ )
Climate Actions group to advise to change light globes etc small business GHG reduction
I have no idea where all these landfills, some of which burn off in open air and heavy metal flow-off are situated. but it seems piggeries and feedlots are the least of this regions concerns.
I am contacting Professor Fiona Stanley, Child Research, Telethon Institute Australian of the Year, who did the work on folic acid and spina bifida. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiona_Stanley Surely she can understand the benefit of [green vegetables] and meat and cereal in diets. Sorry and dairy and fruit also. And nuts. That are grown and available from a regional area.
Beats the time it takes to ship or rail produce across the Nullabor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullabore_Plain
Australian Bureau of Statistics has 7 different geographical and ?electoral choices for Narrogin (http://www.abs.gov.au/ go to census data left hand side and then choose 2006 quick stats) ranging from 12km2 to 1,000s hectare2. Also an industry, income etc regional profile has been done for the area, but small area population = high RSE?
The attacks by bankers to control farmers is a very old war. Tie ’em down with endless impossible paperwork and unpayable debts.
Who else has seen moneymasters?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936#
It’s kind of amusing that Anthony has randomly decided to sound the alarm over this particular assault by a bank on a farm. Where were you for the last hundered thousand such assaults that have happened during your lifetime?
Effectively the whole world’s farming is controled or being attacked by bankers at any one time.
This case looks like the one we’ve got where I live, the holmfirth vineyard.
http://www.holmfirthvineyard.com/
Ridiculous northern latitutude vineyard, ‘spose to exemplify global warming. Tons of money being pumped into hopeless venture, but gets loads of very biased AGW media attention.
Simply, bankers heavily subsidize some select farmers who support the AGW nonsense. Seems in this case, the bankers mistook the Thompsons as suitable AGW zealots, and are now correcting their mistake.
People try to manage the odor of farms? Since when? Since when do farmers have to be responsible for the flatulence of their animals? Sounds like a bunch of city people wanted to live in the country and not adapt to what the country experience is really like.
I’ve been following the story of this family for a long while now, and I’m very sad that they’re being evicted. I can’t help but think that they’re not the only ones facing this crap, and that keeping them from getting evicted now is just delaying the inevitable. I’d rather donate to whatever their new venture is than watch them continue to beat their head against a wall. I would rather donate towards a new start for them, and let a good author write the story of this nonsense in a way that captures public attention.
Donation dutifully transferred to the L&S Ballard account. Mark Steyn would be interested in this kind of cause too. He sums up these types, and circumstances, quite well. IMHO, a self-mutilating tendency (or better, a self-eating disease) is now almost rife throughout Western culture, seeded and promulgated by our overly-protected, child-like, ‘elites’, the policy effects of which, unfortunately up until now, have only really afflicted the burbs and the regional/rural areas of nations. When the green tape (just one form of this disease – see Steyn for others), that is increasingly choking Western power and water supplies, begins to cause more regular CBD black-outs and brown-outs, perpetual water restrictions, as well as hiking power and water prices, it will be in essence the first time these elites experience the results of their own policies/medicine. But I’m not entirely sure that they’ll wake up then either. We might just have to move them on/depose their kind before it gets to that stage – but civilly, via good argument and the democratic process, of course 🙂
I think Virveli’s comment above is correct, I did some Googling and found the comment below on the blog “Climate Progress” which seems to be an activist blog. Based on the name I guess that Virveli is a woman which of course is irrelevant (information only).
Virveli says:
August 10, 2010 at 3:37 am
My country Finland also should need to be added to the global list of the countries that made a new all-time-high temperature record during this heatwave crisis:
http://yle.fi/ uutiset/ news/ 2010/ 08/ all-time_heat_records_broken_in_july_1873440.html?origin=rss
The previous record from the year 1914 was 35.9C, the new one stands at 37.2C!
Also a new all-time-high record for an August temp was broken on the 7th and 8th days of August (33.7C).
—-
What Virveli didn’t mention is that the last winter was really cold. For some strange reason the new record temperature was measured at an airport 🙂 . Personally I think the old measurement cannot be compared to the new one. They don’t measure the same thing.
I am glad I donated because here in Finland the same kind of sick efforts from green organizations allied with government officials can be seen. Individual fishers have essentially been eliminated through green activities forbidding hunting of seals and Great comorants.
Anthony I contributed to this because you asked me to. But I have to say I’m not too keen on bailing out people who move to semi-communist countries and discover that they no longer have freedom. The Australian people are going to have to learn that socialism/communism is a really bad idea and apparently they are going to have to learn it the hard way.
REPLY: Thanks for donating – Anthony
David Segesta says:
September 20, 2010 at 7:55 am “I have to say I’m not too keen on bailing out people who move to semi-communist countries and discover that they no longer have freedom.”
As distinct from those who stay in semi-communist countries like the US, Canada and the UK, and discover that they no longer have freedom? Unfortunately, essentially the same ideology has become dominant across the globe.
What concerned me most about donating was whether the money might not end up effectively funding the enemy (eg by keeping the Thompsons off the dole and paying taxes a bit longer, but without changing the final result). However, I decided it would still be worth it, on the basis that such international support may embarrass the bureaucrats out of all proportion to the monetary amount. An international scandal could affect their careers!
biddyb says:
September 20, 2010 at 2:55 am
If you live in the country you expect smells.
Huth replies: I live in the country and it isn’t smelly.
Jeremy says:
September 20, 2010 at 7:10 am
“….and let a good author write the story of this nonsense in a way that captures public attention”.
Don Benito Pérez Galdós, where are you?
Virveli, in you post of September 19, 2010 at 9:11 am you say;
“I researched a bit into this:
From the minutes of the Narrogin Shire Council, where Mrs Thomson sits as a Councillor, May 17, 2007:”
But following YOUR link and actually reading the council minutes, Mrs Thomson is listed as a Visitor. Now why would a concillor be listed as a visitor rather than a Councillor?
In your next post you say; “The Thompsons appear to be two healthy individuals possessing a lot of marketable skills (Mrs Thompson even being a local councillor), so they should be perfectly capable of generating their own income.”
They were generating their own income until changing government regulations made that impossible. You also seem to be implying that just because they have the ability to work and make money it is OK that they lose their life savings and/or that people should not help them when they are in need. That would have been unlike the Finns I’m aware of.
Around here we have discovered that by locating our temperature sensors at the East end of the Runway we can get a new all time record aomost anytime there is a West wind. especially if a jet has a last minute delay for some reason we can produce daytime high temperatures in the 40 C range sometimes without even melting the snow.
This issue reminds me of the folks near here who moved in next to the Trap range and then sued to shut it down because it was noisy.
David Segesta says:
September 20, 2010 at 7:55 am
Australia had in the 1960’s also a left wing government that sent everybody to the beaches, by lowering the retirement age, doing such a mess, that the then obscure and unknown UK’s viceroy had to intervene by order of Her Majesty to stop the generalized madness. (If my memory is right)
Is it the Moon resposible for this?…..Sure!….Ban Ki MOON.
Lars, a couple of points:
-There are “less than 5” female persons called Virveli as well as “less than 5” male persons called Virveli according to our VRK, all born between 1940-59 (The exact numbers of very uncommon names are not published.)
-The Great Cormorant are hunted in Finland this year;
-The Winter 2009-2010 was not especially “hard” in Finland;
-The weather station at the small Joensuu-Liperi airport meets all required criteria with large distances from any runway. The actual station description is found at the FMI site;
-The records temps in summer 2010 were not limited to a single time nor place;
I’m not going to publish the links here, as we’re OT already. Consider this as a hint for your search engine usage.
“You also seem to be implying that just because they have the ability to work and make money it is OK that they lose their life savings and/or that people should not help them when they are in need. That would have been unlike the Finns I’m aware of.”
ddpalmer, you’ve seen the wrong Finland. You may not be aware of the fact that our great depression of the 1990s was the greatest depression ever to have taken place in any industrialized country. Scores and scores of people found themselves in a similar situation than the Thompsons.
If you really feel the need to help people in need, I’m sure a local charity in Narrogin would be a better place to direct your contributions to.
As for the elected position of Mrs Thomson, may I direct you to the official Shire site:
“Janet Thompson
Jantet was elected in October 2007. She and her husband Matt, own and operate Narrogin Beef Producers, a 10,000 head cattle feed lot south of Narrogin. Janet and Matt have four children Kate, Abby, Will and Luke. Janet’s background is in finance and agricultural economics. She enjoys all sports, reading, speaking and writing and is currently involved in writing and producing a local play “The Fundraiser”.”
http://www.narroginshire.wa.gov.au/contact_details/councillors_more.html
(“Councillor profiles”)
Thank you, Wondering Aloud. Loved your post. Everyone here is laughing v loud.
Virveli says:
September 20, 2010 at 4:02 am
“[…]If an enterprise is mismanaged, it will go under. That’s the cold fact of the free market economy.”
Virveli, you probably didn’t read the entire article. I can help.
“In 2008, the Thompson’s applied to the West Australian Department of Environment and Conservation for an increase in their licence capacity from 10,000 to 15,000 head. Instead, the DEC cut their licence conditions back to 6,000 head, effectively closing the business by removing its economies of scale.”
See? No mismanagement, and no free market economy. So your objection might apply, only not to this case, not to this post, not to the story of the Thompsons.
To ddpalmer: just to set the record straight the Narrogin shire council meeting referred to by Virveli was on 17 May 2007, whereas the following link appears to show that Mrs Thompson was only elected as shire councillor five months later: http://www.narroginshire.wa.gov.au/contact_details/councillors_more.html
And to Ennegram: I think you were referring to Sir John Kerr, the G-G, sacking PM Gough Whitlam in November 1975. The problem was that the Senate blocked Whitlam’s budget, so he had no supply. The row still goes on today – and it might happen again too, with the new minority government!
Alexander Kendall says:
September 20, 2010 at 12:32 am
Humph was a legend!
Donation sent. Hope it helps.
REPLY: thank you, Anthony
I won’t have Baen’s Bar access for several hours at least – if there are any Barflies reading this, could you post a link it to the various conferences (I’m thinking the main bar, futuretech, madmike’s, ringo’s, and politics)? I’m pretty sure at least some of the ‘flies would be willing to help (maybe some of the Aussie ‘flies could do something locally).
Donation sent – may it and the others lead to some good. The world is a dark place for lack of independent thought.
Now Aussies might start to understand as this “New world order” marches through our country, why it was so important that they take our GUNS away from us. You can write, yell and scream all you like, they don’t give a damn.
They own all the supermarket chains, and utility companies. You haven’t seen anything yet. Wait till these guys really get going with what they have planned.
They killed 40 million in Russia at the tip of a hat. We are in for the fight for our lives, and our childrens lives.
Donation Sent. Good luck.
I don’t believe it!
The Thompsons have had the goalposts moved AGAIN!
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/a-waterway-no-fish-will-swim-in/#more-10364
Now their paddocks have been classified as “waterways” so no cow can cr*p on the land so designated.
Who really wants to get this land from the Thompsons?
The Thompsons tried to get out when the going was good – back in 2007. But nobody was interested.
http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/property-rural-in-narrogin,+wa+6312/list-1
Destroying Australian farms and Australian Farmers has been a hobby of the Australian Government since 1990.
They are removing the producing families that have worked the lands for generations with their “rules and bullshit legislation” and in place are allowing major food corporations to spray and contaminate the land with their GM garbage.
Can anyone say that Agenda 21 is well underway yet using local and State Govt. as operatives?
Stephen Brown says:
September 20, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I don’t believe it!
from the JoNova article
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/a-waterway-no-fish-will-swim-in/#more-10364
“We could make a fuss about the definition of a “waterway” — but in the end, when the Thompsons spoke to the Appeals Convenor, he said that even if they won the right to be a Category 68 unlicensed property, DEC would just change the rules and make all feedlots — regardless of size or watercourses — subject to licensing.
The real problem here is that DEC are kingmakers who divide and conquer detail by detail.”
=====
I hate to say it but this appears to be a land grab; corruption in government.
No one in their right mind will invest in an Australia that robs its own people and destroys business.
About rural smells. When I was a child, suburban sprawl in Southern California was patchy. For example, there was a dairy farm a few miles from where we lived. My mother preferred to get really fresh milk there, rather than purchasing somewhat-less-fresh milk from the supermarket. When I went along for the ride on a milk-run, she also bought me a chocolate-covered ice cream bar.
To this day, I do not have a problem with dairy-farm, cow-poo odor. I associate it with chocolate-covered ice cream bars!
Paypal donation sent. Nil carborundum illegitimati. Don’t let the bastards grind you down.
Jessie says:
September 20, 2010 at 5:12 am
“But a report for Dept Environment and Conservation (DEC) on improving waste management and landfills in the Wagin area – which includes Narrogin Town.”
http://www.narrogin.wa.gov.au/Strategic%20Waste%20Management%20Plan.pdf
TOWN OF NARROGIN
poulation: 4,238
The major local industries supported in the region include agricultural services, education, health and aged care services, timber milling, brick making, concrete, light engineering and cabinet making. The Rev Heads Motor Show is a significant local event attracting many tourists to the area.
Town of Narrogin: survey comments about their own town:
– The cemetery is a disgrace.
– Narrogin lacks badly in getting rid of rubbish, hence footpaths with broken glass on them, empty cans, plastic bottles, rubbish, hence the need for more recycling. Our streets are a disgrace go walking everyday and see it all. Also people who walk dogs but no poo bags used. It is very sad when past residents visit Narrogin and can’t believe how the Town has gone backwards. No tidy Town for Narrogin.
– This region is behind in every aspect of recycling, coming from the east and before that Sydney. We are amazed at the lack of interest in the environment.
– Dragging rubbish out of the town and throwing it in a big hole is not a waste disposal policy. Develop one now, crawl out of the dark ages.
– Need to train public to stop throwing stuff out on street when walking past.
– We need new public toilets.
So let see if I’ve got this straight, a town that doesn’t care about the environment, doesn’t have a recycling program, and dumps waste (formerly including medical waste) without a disposal policy in a “hole” outside town, complains about a business owner who had been employing the equivalent of over 5% of the population of their town and DEC takes immediate action?
Why doesn’t DEC give the town some toilets or at least a pot to piss in so they don’t pick on their neighbors? The people of Narrogin should be assumed of whats going on.
Where’s Josh when you need him?
Donated!
error from last post (September 20, 2010 at 6:40 pm):
The people of Narrogin should be ashamed of what they’ve done.
Done.
Virveli, you are not alone. Anyone who can’t run a feedlot economically with 6000 head of cattle is doing something wrong. Cattle shouldn’t be that crowded anyway, unless they are free to move on to fresh pasture when THEY want to. Farms in Britian manage with far fewer animals (fewer than 100 quite often).
And to everyone who thinks farms stink – they don’t. You must be city folks to think so. If a farm stinks its neighbours out, it’s not a farm but a factory with bad working conditions. This story isn’t about AGW, it’s about animals being mistreated. You don’t have to be an extremist of any description to recognise that and to object to it.
I eat meat. I like to know the animal it comes from had a good life. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Sorry to have missed this earlier. If its not too late, I may be able to help arbitrate this issue as I have a long track record in odour assessment in WA and a good working relationship with DEC. Let me know if I can help – would be happy to look over the issues and meet with DEC gratis.
Thanks for the updates. I’ve sent a donation for the children, on Jo’s assurance that the fund will go into their names (this would normally require separate trustees to administer the fund so that it is protected from the parents’ creditors, BTW).
I want to hear from Karen Gow – (or whatever her name is) this is a fair minded site – come on and let us hear your grievances here…oh but wait – the nail went in their coffin today so you might be celebrating!
More news to come shortly – but this family is in a crucible now more than ever – today was the 4th day remember – this family has been targeted i have no hesitation in writing this here in a public domain.
I have had enough – we need to get justice here for a family that has been bastardized by DEC and NAB!
Bring it on in the land down under – !!
We Kiwi’s put up a good battle on the football field opposing our Aussie neighbours, but when Green insanity threatens livelihoods this Kiwi donates. Hope is all works out.
@ Huth
“Virveli, you are not alone. Anyone who can’t run a feedlot economically with 6000 head of cattle is doing something wrong. Cattle shouldn’t be that crowded anyway, unless they are free to move on to fresh pasture when THEY want to. ”
Do some more homework on here – read WHY mate – or go to Jo Nova’s site and READ WHY!
Pffft!
Huth says:
Virveli, you are not alone. Anyone who can’t run a feedlot economically with 6000 head of cattle is doing something wrong.
And yet the DEC is still insisting on the Thompsons building waste facilities for the original 15,000 head of catlle despite all indications that they will never be allowed to achieve this amount due to shifting goalposts!
Also, there have been less than 500 complaints in the 5 years of operation with only 21 of these being substantiated.
Between January and July 2009 there were more than 200 complaints with only 2 substantiated. 2 substantiated complaints in 6 months?
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1826/thompsons.jpg
Points directed at me above are taken on board. I sympathise with the Thompsons’ predicament in so far as a business enterprise of theirs has failed/been targetted for the wrong reasons/whatever. If wrongs have been done then I deplore the wrongs and would have them righted.
Justice and fair treatment for people.
BUT, and it’s a big but, I happen to think that the feedlot approach to farming is wrong too, and that that should be righted.
Justice and fair treatment for animals. We are animals too, don’t forget.
Huth
I understand where you’re coming from but is it really better for the cows to be able to move where they want to and to graze on pasture or is that just our interpretation of the situation?
Do we really understand what cows do and don’t want?
Can we equate their desires to the human notion of freedom?
To be honest, most people I know are more than happy to do as little as possible in the way of moving from A to B and for food purchase and preparation. We coop ourselves up in smallish boxes in close proximity to others, preferably close to food sources and employment!
Maybe cows don’t like having to wander all over a field in search of relatively tasteless grass when they can be waited on by humans and served a scrumptious diet of grain.
🙂
Huth
What do you think goes on in the piggery next door to the Thompsons?I am sure there are a lot of feedlots in WA.I would like to see animals treated fairly,but it’s not going to happen.
Because I don’t like the way they farm is no reason to believe that these people should be treated so disgracefully.
I am happy to see the amount raised for them,if they are forced out at least they will have something to fall back on.
http://www.feedlots.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=67&Itemid=111
The Australian beef industry is the largest agricultural industry in Australia with the feedlot sector now playing a major role within it. The feedlot industry has a value of production of approximately $2.7billion while employing some 2000 people directly and almost 7000 more indirectly. There are approximately 700 accredited feedlots throughout Australia with the majority located in areas that are in close proximity to cattle and grain supplies namely south east QLD; the northern tablelands of NSW and the Riverina area of NSW with expanding numbers in Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia.
“Anyone who can’t run a feedlot economically with 6000 head of cattle is doing something wrong. Cattle shouldn’t be that crowded anyway, unless they are free to move on to fresh pasture when THEY want to. Farms in Britian manage with far fewer animals (fewer than 100 quite often).”
Huth, either you haven’t read what has been posted or you are intentionally ignoring it. Yes a FARM can be run with less than 6000 head of cattle; of course they are trying to run a feedlot not quite the same thing. And if you were expecting to have 15,000 head of cattle and bought land and equipment to handle 15,000 head and signed long term contracts for feed and water for 15,000 head, then had to cut back to 6000 head but still were paying for food, water and equipment to handle 15,000 head I believe you would find that it is unprofitable.
“BUT, and it’s a big but, I happen to think that the feedlot approach to farming is wrong too, and that that should be righted.
Justice and fair treatment for animals. We are animals too, don’t forget.”
Finally Huth comes clean. He has a problem with feedlots. He believes in free range cattle. Now his posts make a little more sense. Maybe if he had been upfront from the start people could have addressed his real issue.
So using bureaucratic interpretations of environmental regulations to shut down feedlots because you don’t think feedlots should exist is OK. And when the same tactics are used by vegetarians to shut down free range farms that will be OK with you also right?
ozspeaksup says:September 19, 2010 at 9:47 am
I’ve no doubt you’re right Ozspeaksup – in the immediate present. I’ve seen stuff too. I think the future bodes better, at least in the Congo, on the grounds that it’s so bad it can only get better… but on the premise that we’ve got to start from where we are to get to where we want to go, an article on Africa along the lines of your comments, but giving as balanced an overall view as possible, would be helpful.
I sent a C note by PayPal last night. Then this morning read the letters mentioned in this post: Virveli says:
September 18, 2010 at 11:21 am
Perhaps someone would like to see what the actual neighbours wrote about the facility in their own words?
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
I have some misgivings now. I lived in Ft Worth Tx in the 1950’s approx 2 miles from the stock yards and Armour and Swifts plant. When the wind was out of the south east the odour was gagging. There was no a/c in our house and the summers were 100 degrees F with that odor. I’m nowhere close to being a left wing whack job. Sorry, I’m beginning to side with the letter writers. Been there…smelled that. A truly gagging odor.
REPLY: Might help when you realize that the central instigator, a neighbor, Karen Gow, is trying to get her property subdivided for sale.
– Anthony
@ ROLAND S HAILE
Please dont second guess your donation. There are 4 children here that need help – and a mum and dad.
Yes i too have read the letters – BUT – no where have they been asked to back up their claims – they are unsubstantiated – and other neighbors – closer no complaints!
What has happened to Matt and Janet is just wrong full stop. In general dont we all love the way that accountability is always shifted to easy targets – a dad, mum and 4 kids is a pretty easy target….enough said.
Donation Sent!
For my part, as an Australian (although not West Australian) I am ashamed of this type of approach by government. Arbitrary controls on business where those in power get to decide which projects proceed or not is absolutely against the Australian ideal of a “fair go”.
I have seen a similar issue in Victoria where I live where a property development was rejected because the property line would be less than 80cm above water levels, as the Victorian government is so sure that the sea level will rise to swamp this land within a 90 year period –
I am seriously considering whether or not Australia will be the right place for myself and my family to live in the future should officials exhibit such power over free enterprise – particularly the power to bankrupt families with rules based on no real evidence.
ddpalmer. No, I find vegetarian nonsense as maddening as most people.
Noelene. People used to be treated badly too. Think slave boats and working conditions on plantations. It DID change when enough other people objected. I don’t see why we shouldn’t try on behalf of other animals.
Elise. It has been observed that cattle in feedlots seem more ‘bad-tempered’ than free-ranging cattle. Meat and eggs from free-ranging animals taste better than otherwise. Also, if you’ve been close to farm animals for years, I think you can tell to some extent what they ‘like’ and what they ‘don’t like’ because they make choices that can be observed and noted. For example, my free range chickens won’t eat proprietary soy and fish-meal based chicken food pellets and, what is more, neither will the wild rabbits and squirrels around here. That says a lot to me.
In evolutionary terms, a concentrated diet of grain is not natural food for cattle
ddpalmer, one fact remains, which is noted by Mr Thomson himself at the Shire meeting and written down in the minutes, the fact being that there never was a written permission granted to increase the cattle from 6,000 head. The Thompsons chose to understand differently, and therefore would find themselves in the situation they are now in.
Is it not strange that no such document has ever been produced by anyone?
Australia’s population is 22,468 400 and that count includes children. We are highly urbanised on the east coast. Go to http://www.abs.gov.au/ and left hand side choose ‘census data’ and then choose ‘map stats’.
Update 3 How to write a letter Mark
Thank you so much for the prepared letter, very much appreciated
Steve Johnson (September 20 5.13pm )
Your hyperlink took me to a naturopathic site.
Naturopathy in developing countries and radical green anti-vaccines = death in large, large numbers in developing countries. And in some areas of Australia we are seeing a resurgence of whooping cough (diphtheria), many of the 19thC cemeteries are filled with mothers and their children, dead, from this awful disease. Those countries that haven’t cemeteries and head-stones or human records, well you can visit but not count, other excuses are used. Anti-science greenies lower herd immunity status. Imagine the effect of anti-science types that work in larger populations!
Agenda 21 has been codified into many global treaties and local government Council initiatives and thus funding. Not funding for transport and services. Agenda 21 was being used as a policy and process manual (through Canadians I thought) because of the absence of real knowledge and statistical data on regional Australia and in the remote communities of top end of Australia in the late 90s. This ‘policy’ manual informed the beginning of the Indigenous Protected Areas (financed by the federal environmental agency) ………..the funding ensued. Spatial mapping is a cause celebre, but the metadata is not clear. ICLEI is another organisation globally aggregating ‘local’ level governance…….and offering policy solutions……. that’s biased survey results and extracting Council data that is informing their domination.
Meemoe_uk (September 20 6.06am)
True, banks, nowadays with our cashless society and $ transfers have required most people to use internet. Any amounts over Aus$10,000 apparently are tracked. For eg http://www.bankwest.com.au/zerotran/ (footer: issued by Bank Western Australia)
Fees and charges for each transaction benefit the banks? Australian Taxation Office of non-monetary transactions, declared or not?
See Australian Bureau of Census for how the census and their surveys report [self-declared] income per person and household! What a way to plan for policy and expenditure. Might as well live in Mexico. Or stick with the ‘oops you’re too wealthy, you need some re-distribution’ Marxist model when the government plebs do their planning exercises. Or is that ….oops, you are too poor?
ZD Net evaluated the ?$465 million Networking the Nation (NTN) project for regional Australia. However other reports of this grant funding range from $70 -$320 million. This federal government project called for tenders in the national newspaper in 1999, and tenders went out to?dept. The dept named Dept of Communications, Information Technology and the Arts is no more. There has been no public discussion on the actual outcomes of such expenditure, though Australia is now ‘debating’ a National Broadband Network (NBN) to the tune of $43 billion.
During the time of the NTN there were various government inquiries into e-banking and regulation. The Australian Bankers Association may be interested http://www.bankers.asn.au/
The dept later is now labelled Dept of Broadbands, Communication and the Digital Technology under Senator Stephen Conroy. http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/senators.asp?id=3L6 First speech ?
By the by – doing cattle work today – one hell of a cranky Brahman cow – sheesh – could that mumma move! Had us all up the rails – pms perhaps? Because she did come out of a paddock – free ranging female! (tic of course mate 🙂
Seen the photos of Matt and Janets cattle in the feedlot – happy contented – AND their children were patting them! Hmmm wouldn’t put those little kiddies in with my free range cow….:)
Hello, Anthony and Co…
It’s been a long and tiring day. Administrators appointed by the bank contacted us this morning, and were onsite by mid-day. They did not tell us to vacate yet, but given the fact that they gave us 4 days to repay, and two of those days were a weekend, we’re not very hopeful of them “working” with us.
I took a part-time job earlier this year to help put food on the table and keep the lights on while we continued our battle — to try to restore common sense and a reasonable licence. As part of that job, I had meetings in Perth today, so poor Matt had to face these three goons alone. He’s worn out and has gone to bed.
This whole business is exhausting, but because of your kindness, generosity and moral support, we are more determined than ever to fight in whatever way we can.
I think we are in a unique position. We did not have deep enough pockets to pay the piper. And we are not the usual small people that just “go away.” Maybe, just maybe, we are in this position at this point in time for a reason.
Assuming we lose everything, are unable to pay back the millions that we owe, and have to move and start over….surely we can use our horrendous story to make a positive difference for others (including our children). We are heartbroken that Lindley is gone, and we know we can never bring him back. But maybe we can honour him.
As we’ve said before, “Thank You” is not enough, but it’s all we’ve got right now.
Thank You.
Janet
On Anthony’s previous posting of David Archibald’s take on our story, I posted the following. Apologies to those of you who have already read this, but our enemies seem to use repetetive posts quite effectively, so I guess I need to learn from them. 🙂
*****
There is much talk of whether feedlotting is a safe and responsible production practice. I believe that this is not an appropriate tack within the context of this discussion or our over-all problem, but since detractors will continually bring it up, I’d like to respond.
First, feedlotting is not an illegal practice, and any animal welfare or food safety issues should be dealt with separately from environmental issues. Animal rights activists make up a good portion of the movement against us.
We welcome genuine people interested in the truth. The animals in our facility were treated very well, fed freshly-produced feed every day, and had an unlimited supply of clean, fresh water. They were happy, content, and always treated humanely.
When one of our enemies reported us to the RSPCA, I proudly gave the inspector a 1.5 hour tour of our place. She was highly complimentary, and said farmers should get their story out more, because ours was a very good story.
We’ve actually given many tours to the Ag School classes, we’ve spoken to the classes at the school (as late as late 2009!), and we’ve had many students work with us. Our relationship with the students and staff of the college has been wonderfully positive. Not so with the few administrative people who are philosophically opposed to progressive agriculture, and the top guy who is an adamant global warming advocate and attacked us at one liaison group meeting for our greenhouse gas emissions.
Second, the feeding of grain is commonplace, whether animals are in the paddock or in a feedlot. We would not have the necessary year-round supply of cattle to keep abattoirs in operation were it not for this practice. The feeding of grain to cattle is proven safe and effective, and it has allowed us to greatly improve efficiency, which is great for the environment and for continuing to feed the world. I’m very proud to be an environmentalist and one of the true “greenies,” who understands that the better we get at producing efficiently, the more land and resources are available for environment.
Food Inc has been mentioned. It is an atrocity of mis-information. We use antibiotics to treat sick or injured animals that have bacterial infections. We probably use antibiotics more responsibly than humans do, because we recognise that they will not be effective against viral infections, and would waste money were we to treat all with antibiotics. Our wonderful employees (and us, too) walked each pen every day to check for sick or injured animals. We taught animal handling techniques based on Temple Grandin’s “flight zone” concepts, and animals were calmly and quietly pulled out of the pen for treatment. A high tech and sophisticated regime for every possible health problem was in place, and a “hospital” was available for those animals that needed additional care or treatment and who could not go “home” immediately.
And, we’d like to point out, our well-designed and well-run feedlot is not the exception. We’ve been to many feedlots the world over, and have worked extensively in feedlots and saleyards. The overwhelming majority of producers care deeply for the animals in their care, and spend significant resources training employees in how to properly care for these creatures. Cattle in feedlots are happy and content. If that were not the case, they would not perform well, and everyone involved would lose money. So, just as getting better at production is good for the environment, taking better care of our animals and employees is good for the bottom line. It truly is a win-win situation. How exciting is that!?
Cheers, All….
Janet
Janet H. Thompson says:
September 21, 2010 at 6:44 am
Hello, Anthony and Co…
It’s been a long and tiring day.
======
Janet,
Please see goldie’s comment.
goldie says:
September 20, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Sorry to have missed this earlier. If its not too late, I may be able to help arbitrate this issue as I have a long track record in odour assessment in WA and a good working relationship with DEC. Let me know if I can help – would be happy to look over the issues and meet with DEC gratis.
REPLY: I’ve got them in touch already, the gears are turning. Thanks -Anthony
Matt Thompson responded to my prior post related to the Town’s comments in the DEC waste management and landfills report on JoNova’s blog. I was off base when I said “The people of Narrogin should be ashamed of what they’ve done” and I apologize to the good people of the Town and Narrogin Shire for the comment.
===
John,
The local government authority which is the Shire (like a county) has supported us and appealed our license on our behalf on numerous occassions. Individuals have appealed on our behalf and signed petetions in large numbers. DEC does not consider positive comments or submissions. People in town have offered us their homes, their cars, and brought us food. Walking through the streets of town people have handed me fifty dollar notes and told me to keep fighting.
We do have our opponents locally but they are a very small group, and we have many many friends who have bent over backwards to help us in our time of distress.”
[Matt Thompson]
ROLAND S HAILE says:
September 21, 2010 at 5:03 am
I sent a C note by PayPal last night. Then this morning read the letters mentioned in this post: Virveli says:
September 18, 2010 at 11:21 am
Perhaps someone would like to see what the actual neighbours wrote about the facility in their own words?
http://narroginlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/neighbour-presentations.pdf
I have some misgivings now. I lived in Ft Worth Tx in the 1950′s approx 2 miles from the stock yards and Armour and Swifts plant. When the wind was out of the south east the odour was gagging. There was no a/c in our house and the summers were 100 degrees F with that odor. I’m nowhere close to being a left wing whack job. Sorry, I’m beginning to side with the letter writers. Been there…smelled that. A truly gagging odor.
Roland, I made this mistake initially as well. Go to Jo Nova’s site links at the top of the article and spend some time reading through the material. There is LOT more backstory to this then what appears on the surface. Yup, feedlots can truly stink, but the Thompson issue isn’t about that, even though they would have the continuing responsibility as an operator to mitigate that issue with good husbandry. This is truly about rogue bureaucrats, not cattle.
Don;t have the funds I’ve had in recent years, but made a modest donation. I come from a farming community, and the Thompsons are the sort of people I grew up with. Best of luck to them.
Sure, there is more to it than is presented here, but that doesn’t justify what they’re doing to this family.
“Huth says:
September 21, 2010 at 5:44 am
ddpalmer. No, I find vegetarian nonsense as maddening as most people.”
So you are going to ignore my point entirely. Is that because you don’t understand the simple point I was making or because you don’t have a good answer?
The radical vegetarians are like the gun control fanatics. Today they are just pushing for the poor animals to be treated better before we make them into hamburger. Once they get that concession they will push for some other reasonable sounding regulation, like maybe a limit on the number of cattle per acre. And each little push is just one step toward eliminating the raising of animals for food. If they are allowed to take the first steps without people opposing them each succeeding step will be that much easier, and soon your free range cattle and chickens will be a thing of the past.
Are you aware of any scientific testing that shows free range tastes better than non-free range? I did find one small report of a food writer and a group of tasters which seemed to show no difference when it comes to eggs, that any reported difference seemed to be from expectation not from an actual difference. http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/08/what-are-the-best-eggs-cage-free-organic-omega-3s-grocery-store-brand-the-food-lab.html
ddpalmer says:
Are you aware of any scientific testing that shows free range tastes better than non-free range? I did find one small report of a food writer and a group of tasters which seemed to show no difference when it comes to eggs, that any reported difference seemed to be from expectation not from an actual difference.
Taste is relative. But since you mentioned eggs, those of free-range chicken are claimed to be nutritionally superior to those of non-free-range chicken.
Nutrition – Free-Range vs. Battery-Cage Eggs
ddpalmer. It depends what you would count as a good answer. I doubt if anything I could or would say would qualify.
That said, my answer consists of two points: (1) I think you are being alarmist, and (2) you need to taste the eggs my chickens produce. 😉
So no proof, just anecdotal evidence. And sorry but I don’t eat eggs.
And you hide you head in the sand even though the animal rights people have made no bones about wanting to do away with all animal ‘slavery’ from testing to farms to pets. And as the Thompson’s situation shows many of these decisions are being made by unelected mid-level bureaucrats and their own personal interpretation of the regulations.
I am currently on welfare. I know what it’s like to have your business & home pulled out from under you.
I will try to donate £10 on Thursday. I will use the bank details if They are accepted here.
DaveE.
In my experience, the smaller the egg the better the taste although this analysis seems to have been restricted to chickens only. Where and under what conditions the egg was created seems to have little bearing on the flavour IMHO!
Please note that this survey is biased due to the fact that I like chicken eggs and am just about to consume several of them:-)
Made my donation and hope that the many small donations add up to enough to help the Thompsons. This assault on freedom is also happening in the USA. The environmental laws as they are written permit the bureaucrats to label the water flowing off your roof gutters as a “navigable stream” if it runs into a ditch or gully that could eventually get anywhere near a large body of water. And for the person (city boy?) who is sure that feedlots make cattle bad-tempered, temperment is greatly determined by breed. We had a very small cow/calf herd which had 10-15 acres of Illinois grass PER COW in which to roam. And the Charolais-Angus crossbreds we started with were definitely not mild mannered until we bred up to Simmental – a wonderfully placid breed. Anyway, thanks Anthony and please keep us posted on the Thompsons’ progress in their battle with bureaucracy.
Done. Wish I could do more.
The sanction of the victims is over! Productive people of the world rise up and unite to throw off the yoke of slavery to all the looters and moochers!
There is something smelly here and it is not this farm. Who stands to benefit if the Thompsons are gone? A bit tight here but sent $50 and there’s another $50 waiting if needed.
ddpalmer, too bad you don’t eat eggs. One wonders why. Then again one doesn’t really care.
Re the ostrich mentality. Well, I don’t think so, but you may be right. However, given the bombardment of disaster scenarios from BOTH sides of any ecological argument nowadays, one can forgive anyone that. I’ll bear your comments in mind when I think about this topic but, for now, I think we have to agree to differ. I think we’re starting from different premises.
PS I lived in Oxford, UK when the animal rights nutters held a big demo outside the Zoology Dept. They were tolerated by the police (freedom of speech) but given short shrift by everyone else. Maybe that’s partly why I don’t feel so insecure. Medical research has proved many times over that an omnivorous diet is the healthiest for humans. WUWT and similar sites are trashing the climate nonsense good and proper. I think the same would happen with regard to any attempt to force vegetarianism on the masses.
Not a mention about Matt and Janet Thompson in the Perth news, 50 comments about banning kites and digging holes on the beach…
BEACHGOERS could soon be fined up to $500 for flying kites, using oversized umbrellas, taking photographs or digging holes at a popular Perth beach.
Under a proposal to be considered by the Town of Cottesloe in Perth’s western suburbs this month, 60 clauses will be added to the council’s beach law, banning a total of 100 listed activities at the famous beach.
According to an officer report, the current law lacks in certain areas and requires more specific controls over beach activities.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/kites-toys-and-alcohol-could-be-banned-at-beach/comments-e6freooo-1225927869151
“ddpalmer, too bad you don’t eat eggs. One wonders why. Then again one doesn’t really care.”
Well then one of one’s statements is false. Either one wonders why or one doesn’t care. If one didn’t care then why would one bother starting with saying one wonder why, or even why one would bother making any comment on the issue at all if one didn’t care?
So since one obviously does care, I am allergic and really don’t like the feeling of my throat swelling shut while I wonder if this will be the time it completely blocks my airway.
Based on one demonstration you dismiss the whole movement? Well in the US many farmers are much more worried than you. The animal rights groups have been trying to establish non-elected state boards to oversee farms and enact regulations on how the farms operate. These boards would be required to contain a certain percentage of animal rights members.
In Ohio, farmer’s groups got the jump on the AR groups by getting a ballot initiative passed that created the Ohio Livestock Care Standards Board, with no required AR representation; current members are veterinarians, farmers and agriculturalists. If the AR groups had succeeded they would have not just been in position to influence farm regulations but would have actually been able to make and interpret those regulations. And these are groups with the avowed purpose of shutting down all animal farms.
You may call my point alarmist, but if so it seems a large percentage of US farmers are alarmists. Although to me it looks more like the US farmers are realists who want to defend their rights and livelihoods. Just like the Thompsons.
ddpalmer, thanks for the info and for correcting my ambiguity. I often wonder why people don’t eat this or that but there are so many reasons (and excuses) that it can be tiresome. Your reason isn’t tiresome and I’m glad you know about it and can avoid problems.
Here in the UK, it seems to me that the most vocal people fighting for humane treatment of animals are meat producers (farmers) and meat eaters who realise that human beings are just one of innumerable animals who eat other animals, but who don’t want farmed animals (or hunted ones for that matter) to suffer unnecessarily. The point I’m trying to make is that these people are not extremists. Maybe I’m being complacent, though I don’t think so, but I don’t think extremist anti-meaters will make significant progress because too many people like to eat meat and know it’s good food and too many big businesses will resist everything beyond humane treatment.
As with all the climate hoo-ha, ultimately I feel optimistic. People start to resist unsupportable hype and, given time, things will improve for both people and farmed animals.
Meantime, I wish all humane farmers well.
@ ddpalmer
Mate seriously GET A GRIP!!
The issue here is NOT animal welfare!! It is HUMAN BEINGS!!!!
Sorry that you dont like feedlots or eggs have an adverse affect on you – for the record – and it IS documented – RSPCA checked out the feedlot and said how amazing it was and how the animals were in impeccable condition and HAPPY!!
So can we get back to the family who is at risk here – 4 children whom we need to be supporting – 2 young American / Australian citizens who have worked hard, complied with everything which have been mistreated (NOT ANIMALS)!
Australian media has still not (exceptions Jo Nova and Tim Blair – Daily Telegraph) made ONE article – why? I have been emailing news outlets, media in all forms, talk back raidos – NOTHING – This is WRONG –
Then, here you are prattling on about something OFF topic – please – another thread mate 🙂
@Wild Violet
Dude seriously, TAKE A CHILL PILL.
I am not off topic and unless you are Anthony Watts or one of the moderators you can’t make that call anyways. The issue is government bureaucrats using their interpretation of regulations to shut down a feed lot, an objective of many animal rights groups. This directly ties into similar issues in the US. Yes there is family involved, and I have already made a substantial donation, but merely solving their immediate problem is almost worse than doing nothing, because the same thing will continue to occur across Australia, the US and other countries unless the underlying problem is solved.
I like how you single me out for going ‘off-topic’-please-why don’t you mind your own business buddy 🙂
@ ddpalmer
No i am not Anthony Watts or a moderator. I am just like you (without your egg problem that you shared)
I am not singling you out – lets just clarify for the sake of the Thompsons – maybe you have some information that the rest of us dont?
You wrote,”The issue is government bureaucrats using their interpretation of regulations to shut down a feed lot, an objective of many animal rights groups.”
Can you show a link that substantiates the latter “an objective of many animal rights groups” in this case against the Thomspons?
The documentation that i have read here and on Jo Nova’s site does not (unless i have missed this) imply this anywhere that i have seen.
Agreed, “merely solving their immediate problem is almost worse than doing nothing, because the same thing will continue to occur across Australia, the US and other countries unless the underlying problem is solved.”!
I too have helped the family – so we are even here – along with many others – so thats cool – people have have helped have done so of their own free will.
I did not specifically “single you out” as you have written – you have written many references to feedlots and you dont like them – fine – that is your point of view on animal welfare -no problem – but we all are writing on the www so therefore we all able to engauge in discussion.
The Thompsons have chosen this medium as well – as they had no alternative.
The DEC and EDO need to be held accountable for their actions. There is also an update about this on Jo Nova’s site today as well – unbelievable as it still keeps unraveling.
So as for, “why don’t you mind your own business buddy :)” Pfft – i prefer either “Dudette” or “Buddyette”! – tic ! This debacle is all of our problem – US or Australia – we are over regulated imho.
Good to read your thoughts – have a nice day:)
Any word on how the Thompsons are doing and if anything positive has happened?
It seems to me that commenters above are actually on the same page as it relates to animal rights activism playing a part in what is happening. Bottom line is that we are engaged in a legal activity and were given approval to construct a 14,940 head beef cattle feedlot in this location.
Is this about the environment or not? If we have broken environmental laws, we should be charged and allowed to defend ourselves. If we have NOT, we should be allowed to operate our business without conditions that make it impossible to function.
John in CA, thanks for your query. The pressure put on by all of you seems to be working, at least to some extent. As I just posted on JoNova’s site, we’ve had calls from federal and state politicians, and it looks like some of them are meeting with NAB soon. And, we’ve not been kicked out of our house yet. People power is strong. Snowflakes make a snowdrift, and raindrops make a flood. Each of your drips matter. (That was a joke!)
The peace of mind we’ve been gifted through your donations and moral support is priceless. We can never thank you enough, and we will work hard to ensure that your generosity and trust is not misplaced.
Kind Regards,
Janet
Janet H. Thompson,
Fine comment. Thank you for that. It makes our efforts seem worthwhile.
I very much want to see the authorities back down on this issue. And they should; they have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. We’ll soon see if they are representatives of the citizens — or something entirely different.
The situation has worsened – http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/minister-of-the-environment-and-queen-of-wa/comment-page-1/#comment-92061
“Bottom line is that we are engaged in a legal activity and were given approval to construct a 14,940 head beef cattle feedlot in this location. ”
Mrs Thompson, you’ve never been legally licenced for cattle beyond 6,000 heads — there’s no known document to show otherwise. You’ve fully understood the limitations, as indicated by your husband’s speech at a public meeting, but you chose to continue with the expansion scheme regardless. If you’re planning to run a successful large business, you will not believe in any spoken word, but demand everything in black on white.
Since by your own words you’re now surrounded by enemies at your present location, I wish you luck with your future PR. Perhaps the Bank will now forget the money you owe, the regulator and the industry’s self-control expand you to 20,000, and the local community welcome you with open arms.
@ Virveli says:
Nice try mate 🙂
Wild Violet, have you been shown the actual 10,000 licence then?
Virveli, how about you show me yours first?
Oh bugger – just thought i would help with a link “Virveli” http://joannenova.com.au/about/the-thompsons/
Quick question – you dont have to answer, are you a NAB employee, or DEC or EDO or one of the minority complainant’s?
Virveli, this has been answered more than once before, but I’ll do it again:
We were given permission to build a 14,940 head beef cattle feedlot in this location.
After we’d been on hold over a year getting approvals to begin with, we were finally given that permission. We then found out that we were going to have to be periodically licenced.
We said, “We’d have to be crazy to invest in capital works without an assurance of operating.”
They said, “WA would not be the thriving place it is if we did business that way. We would never give someone permission to build something and not let them operate it.”
We never had permission for 1,000 head before we constructed. We had to construct first, then apply for a licence to operate. We never had permission for 4,500 head before we constructed to that level. We had to construct first, then apply for a licence to operate. We never had permission for 6,000 head before we constructed to that level. We had to construct first, then apply for a licence to operate.
At every level of operation, DEC approved our operations. That gave us assurance that we could contiue to invest…continue to build. The only Environmental Field Notice we were ever given was for lack of bunding around our diesel tank. We remedied that, even though DEC officials would have driven past hundreds of un-bunded tanks on their way to our property.
We were quite happy to be licenced, because we were were honest and had nothing to hide. We were also naive. We thought that if we were ever accused of doing environmental harm, DEC would have to file charges against us, and we would have the right to defend ourselves.
But we were never accused of anything. They caused us to die slowly by imposing a licence condition that they knew would send us broke. This was done with no basis in science or fact.
Joanne Nova has another update on her site, in which she addresses this licence thing:
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/minister-of-the-environment-and-queen-of-wa/comment-page-1/#comment-92094
Virveli, something tells me that it won’t matter how rational and calm I am in explaining things to you, you are going to disagree. You state:
Sorry, didn’t know how to use the block quotes. (But I figured it out after I posted!)That should read:
Virveli states:
And then I respond with the Hmmmm two paragraphs.
Virveli says:
September 23, 2010 at 3:02 am
you’re now surrounded by enemies at your present location
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Virveli,
Matt Thompson responded to my prior post related to the Town’s comments in the DEC waste management and landfills report on JoNova’s blog:
John,
The local government authority which is the Shire (like a county) has supported us and appealed our license on our behalf on numerous occassions. Individuals have appealed on our behalf and signed petetions in large numbers. DEC does not consider positive comments or submissions. People in town have offered us their homes, their cars, and brought us food. Walking through the streets of town people have handed me fifty dollar notes and told me to keep fighting.
We do have our opponents locally but they are a very small group, and we have many many friends who have bent over backwards to help us in our time of distress.
[Matt Thompson]
=======
Please don’t spin the facts Virveli, the situation is heart breaking!
I wouldn’t be at all surprised when all of this is over and if no miracles happen to keep Matt & Janet in place….we find their lenders have given the feedlot new owners and they get to operate to full capacity at 15,000 head without question or conditions on their licence….I cannot begin to even put down on paper what will happen then but you can be sure it will be recorded by the MSM….Until then I am working on a miracle….with you all the way Matt & Janet!!
Janet and others,
You should simply ignore “Virvelli” He’s just another coward who takes pot shots from the comfort of anonymity. Concentrate on the important things, like keeping your home. Don’t waste time on this wanker. It’s just a diversion.
Mr Watts, any time you’ve calmed down a bit– would you happen to have the document ready to show please?
REPLY: Oh I’m plenty calm. I’m not the keeper of any documents, and you are of course wrong to ask, but that’s your MO as coward, set up impossible straw men. So nice to see that you’d like to have these people thrown off their land for arbitrary smell laws.
Here’s the deal. The Thompson’s are going to lose their home, they’ve been upfront about it. put their name to everything. Complied with everything asked. I’m tired of people like you making accusations and conducting smear campaigns from the comfort of anonymity in Finland.
Either put your name to your words or shut up. Troll bin filtering applied henceforth. – Anthony
Hey, don’t blame ddpalmer for disliking feedlots; that was (and still is) me. The field full of cows right next to my house still doesn’t smell too. 😉
@Wild Violet
“I did not specifically “single you out” as you have written – you have written many references to feedlots and you dont like them – fine – that is your point of view on animal welfare -no problem – but we all are writing on the www so therefore we all able to engauge in discussion.”
I have no problem with feedlots, that is Huth, so maybe you should try keeping things straight before flying off the handle.
You aren’t singling me out but you specifically address your rant to me and don’t mention anybody else. But since you seem to have other mental problems I guess comprehending what you yourself write is too much to ask.
And here are some quote. Try and guess who they are from?
“The root of the problem is that the bureaucrats APPROVED this feedlot – Matt & Janet played by the rules – they complied as the bureaucrats directed – on the bureaucrats directive –
We do stand up – however it appears that a well oiled “green machine” has a very good head start – and we all – world wide need to catch up, stand up, and support our producers on every continent –
Power to the People to reinstate common sense, reinstate Property Rights and bring back compassion and humanity !”
But the issue is a family and not bureaucrats or the “well oiled “green machine””. Right?
Virveli is Finnish for a fishing reel, that’s all he is doing fishing for comments like a troll. Where I come from Virveli is someone just a bit lower than a village idiot with nothing to add to society.
No doubt he/she will come back with another name now.
@ ddpalmer & Wild Violet
It appears that Janet above has clarified this position, my two cents, dont continue along this vein nothing to be gained here now that personal insults in the last post are entering.
I do hope that in light of the 15th October dead line for the Thomspons to vacate the property is public knowledge, that the donations are still flowing.
Anthony is there an update available?
New developments
I have been on the phone to Matt, Janet & others this morning. Yesterday was another dark day; for the time being the following is what is prudent to release publically.
Matt & Janet are very appreciative of your support & your generosity in the donations that have come in with the appeal launched on their behalf. The trust fund in the children’s name is for the primary purpose of rent for a new place to live, a second hand car to replace the one taken by the receivers, basic furniture, food on the table & the needs of the children. There have been donations sent in as well earmarked by the donors for Matt & Janet to fight this injustice inflicted upon them.
In the past months with no cattle in the feedlot Matt has been very busy not only in maintaining the feedlot facility that he built but also in building a case against the Department of Environment & Conservation (DEC) Matt & Janet had had engaged a lawyer who they thought they could trust that had taken on their case on a pro bono basis. Yesterday on the 22nd Sept the National Australian Bank (NAB) appointed receivers to take over Matt & Janet’s business, Narrogin Beef Producers. The receiver’s letter says that all that is owned by Matt & Janet is now the banks. This includes not only all assets, but get this, all rights, including the right of legal action against the DEC. NAB believes that it owns the files that have been prepared by Matt & the pro bono lawyer for this action. Matt & Janet have asked for the return of these files but their previous lawyer has said that he can no longer take their case & doesn’t believe he can return the files. It just doesn’t stop; it turns out that this lawyer is part of a firm who has a client the NAB. What do you know the NAB can pay a large amount while Matt & Janet cannot pay a brass razoo.
The receiver has given Matt, Janet, …………… a new deadline to be out of their house leaving all behind; this date is the 15th of October.
There is a small glimmer of positive news. A few politicians have come on board to advocate for the Thompson’s cause and to try to mediate with the NAB. This coming Wednesday a meeting has been arranged between this group of politicians & the CEO of NAB Cameron Clyne. Although the NAB has not clean hands in their dealings with the Thompson’s; Matt & Janet appeal to you not to get into a bank bashing frame of mind just yet. This whole sorry saga has been inflicted by environmental extremists and more specifically the DEC. Matt believes that he owes the NAB the balance of the loan with the NAB, Narrogin Beef Producers can repay this loan if they were allowed to operate at the facilities full capacity and without ridiculous arbitrary compliance clauses imposed upon them that no one else has to meet. Matt & Janet appeal to the NAB to support them against the DEC so as they can be productive members of the community & pay back their creditors.
Matt & Janet need your help to send to the CEO of NAB a simple message –
Remove the receiver immediately
Talk to the Thompson’s mediators,
Give back all files
Support Narrogin Beef Producers in their legal case
Phone NAB head office 1300 889 398
Also please contact all main stream media
Dale: thanks for the update. Glad to hear that the childrens’ trust is being handled properly.
Sorry to say that NAB’s appointment of the receiver/manager is probably a game-changer. Up to now the Matthews have controlled Narrogin Beef Producers Pty Ltd and could speak and act in its name; following the appointment they ceased to have legal standing save as shareholders of a company which is presumably already insolvent. This means they effectively have no say in any future legal process from now on: they can really only shout and wave arms from the sidelines.
Unless NAB can be persuaded to withdraw the receiver (but appointments are generally carefully considered before they are made – and this would only be for a temporary period) NAB will recover what they can of their loan by enforcement. They will sell the feedlot at best price obtainable in the open market, to new owners in a position to service loan interest and operate the licence profitably. (If the feedlot can’t be operated profitably it’s worth nothing above basic land value anyway.)
Sorry if this sounds unsympathetic but my overall “take” on what I have seen is that this was quite a risky venture especially in its early years with the potential of the odour problems. No doubt the rewards would have been high if the venture had succeeded – but one must have sufficient capital resources to get through.
Tim C, I believe that you got a wrong handle on a couple of points. The only reason the Narrogin Beef Producers feedlot (Thompson’s company now in receivership) became unprofitable was because of the restrictions & ridiculous clauses placed upon it by the DEC. Joanne Nova explorers the nature of these clauses in the following posting.
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/minister-of-the-environment-and-queen-of-wa/
TimC, your take – “quite a risky venture especially in its early years with the potential of the odour problems” No this is quite incorrect, the DEC went out solicited & funded “odour complaints” using very arbitrary measuring. Odour was used as an excuse to shut down someone who wasn’t bowing down before the holders of the “true wisdom” of environmental supremacy.
Again read the latest effort of Joanne Nova
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/09/thompsons-part-5-community-support/
Dale – sorry but I disagree. The licence condition Jo complains of really says no more than “licensee must ensure no offence is committed under Section 49 EPA 1986”. It is effectively only advisory: criminal law must be observed in any event, even if the feedlot had not been registrable. The main difficulty lay with practical measurement and enforcement: odours are notoriously subjective and difficult to measure. However the bureaucracy has to be seen to act on complaints of unreasonable emissions breaching the criminal law (even if really motivated by dislike of the animal husbandry).
It’s easy to be wise with hindsight but I think some odour problems were probably inevitable, and the business plan should have allowed for them.