Take a moment to observe this day, Patriot Day, to remember those who gave their lives, and to celebrate our freedom from tyranny. If you can, fly your flag at half staff.
911 reminder – Patriot Day
- Tuesday, April 23, 2024
Take a moment to observe this day, Patriot Day, to remember those who gave their lives, and to celebrate our freedom from tyranny. If you can, fly your flag at half staff.
I wonder how different it would be today.
Would there be a media blackout because it might insult someone?
Would there be a fatwa on anyone that covered it?
Strange times we live in, it’s good to remember, because how quickly we forget…….
I don’t mean to minimize the sacrifices of those who have given so much since then, but, lest we forget, this is, first and foremost, the day we remember those whose lives were taken on 9/11/01.
It was a beautiful fall day much like the one we have in NE Oregon today. I and my Wife
were on our way out the door in Coos Bay, Oregon to Eugene. My wife walked into the Bathroom and said:’ A plane hit one of the Twin Towers in New York!” I said: “This is no accident.” Then as I walked out the second plane hit.
Do nothing and the Bad Men win.
I had an old client who was a retired Newark NJ fireman. They were watching from the
roof of the Firehouse when the second building was hit. -Then the bell rang. It rang for many that day.
I’m not american, but I am humanist, atheist and democrat. Those are my flags, so my heart and my mind fly them at half staff by yours.
Long live freedom!
Right on, Anthony.
I flew my flag all night last night with a bright spotlight fixed on it.
Thanks for this.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
From US President Obama: “As Americans, we will not or ever be at war with Islam.”
Grammatical nitpick: Was there a typo in the reporting? Did he misspeak today, possibly because it was mistyped into the teleprompter? Because logic-wise he just said:
Americans will not be at war with Islam
OR
Americans will ever be at war with Islam.
I was there that morning at the Merrill Lynch building across the street – I still have my security pass. It was a beautiful bright clear blue sky.
The courage and dedication of the first responders as they entered the buildings with shrapnel-like aluminum cladding whizzing around plus the falling bodies was amazing. It is hard to realize that it was 9 years ago. It feels like last year.
first and foremost, the rememberance of those innocents that lost their lives. but,,,does anybody discuss the collapse of the towers on this blog? it is a scientific question, after all.
REPLY: 9/11 Truther propaganda is not welcome here, though I’d be perfectly happy to totally decimate your claims in some other forum… – Mike
The 2996 Project: http://project2996.wordpress.com/
The Black Day: http://911.navexpress.com/
FDNY – Blood of Heroes: http://www.fdnylodd.com/BloodofHeroes.html
CNN: the full victims lists: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/main.html
Dedicated to the men and women and children: http://attacked911.tripod.com/
For Canadians, the 24 lost:
Michael Arczynski * Garnet Bailey * David Barkway * Ken Basnicki * Jane Beatty * Cindy Connolly * Arron Dack * Christine Egan * Michael Egan * Albert Elmarry * Meredith Ewart * Peter Feidelberg * Alexander Filipov * Ralph Gerhardt * Stuart Lee * Mark Ludvigsen * Bernard Mascarenhas * Colin McArthur * Michel Pelletier * Donald Robson * Roy Santos * Vladimir Tomasevic * Chantal Vincelli * Debbie Williams.
Thanks for the post and helping our rememberance of this, Anthony and WUWT.
Andrew
On 9-11-01, so many people donated blood it could not all be used. I donated my bi-monthly pint today and it was not very busy. If you want to commemorate and do a bit of good, consider a blood donation if you are able.
You do, of course, refer to the freedom from tyranny we once had but have nearly entirely lost again?
i’m sorry. it’s not obvious how to do a reply here. unless its just moderatores that can. but with regard to ‘mike’ above: are you a moderator? i’m asking a scientific question. i wish simply to discuss scientific principles. (although i’m open to your offer, but this is a scientific blogsite).
REPLY: I am a moderator… There are certain semi-scientific and pseudoscientific topics on the internet that attract a great amount of trollery, flimflammery, or political agenda posturing as science, which Anthony doesn’t want this blog to deal with. We discuss the climate and related AGW topics because Anthony is a meteorologist who has done some work in this area (surfacestations.org). There are plenty of other places on the web where 9/11 Truth topics are discussed, pro and con, that we don’t need to drag that can of worms in here. – Mike
I remember the day, I was channel surfing on the couch as a recently laid off information worker when mum called and told me to watch the news that a plane had hit a building in NYC. Turned out that the pilot of flight 11 was a friend of the family, dad used to hunt on his family farm in Dracut when he was younger.
In the time since, I don’t know what annoys me more: the lies of denial put out by those seeking to make 9/11 into something other than what it was: a disgusting attack on civilian and military (Pentagon) targets using civilian airliners hijacked by 19 mostly Saudi members of al Qaeda, which is a heinous islamofascist organization funded by bin Laden family wealth; or else the way in which 9/11 has been flogged by the federal government to justify the largest intrusion into and violation of our constitutional rights since the Intolerable Acts that triggered the Revolutionary War.
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. ~Thomas Paine
REMEBER TODAY on Nov 2nd.
Check out http://concordproject.org/
I will never forget, and I sincerely hope nobody else does either.
I made a tribute video some years ago and if you have a few minutes and some tissues I hope some of you will watch it:
Be aware that I delete all “troofer” comments from that link.
For those who’ve only seen the media reports and and the debates about WTC and 9/11, but don’t know of the realities of the actual event, SDA has put up 26 minutes of raw footage from a neighbouring residential tower, filmed by a family watching it all unfold from their living room way above New York.
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/014850.html
i understand your point. to a point. but i would expect a moderator for a sceptic blog to be less defamatory and aggresive. i don’t want a pillow fight with you. but i respect anthonys right to decide what is and isn’t discussed on his own blog (even though i maintain it is purely science i wish to discuss (strange how you started on political accusations before discussing the science)). so…if you want to take this elsewhere, as you suggested, i will accept the attention of a single wuwt moderator, rather than the collective.
REPLY: 9/11 “Truth” discussion is rife with politics, I’ve been hip deep in those discussions for enough years to know. That sort of drama here could only be used by our critics to drag the blog down. – Mike
i understand. and i appreciate your constructive tone. but i am disappointed if you don’t want to discuss purely the science of the buildings collapse with me elsewhere.
sorry. i should have changed email b4.
The response to 911 (invading Iraq) was somehow similar to the response to global warming (reduce atmospheric CO2). Given the essentially illogical and reality-ignoring natures of both these response, are we really sure that we are free from tyranny today? More abstractly, can we ever be free from the tyranny of majority rule?
As on every 9/11, the Stars and Stripes went up the flagpole this morning. God Bless America.
Just to clarify my previous post, both responses were based upon lies. Yes, I said “lies”, implying with that choice of word that there was an intent to deceive – in order to achieve the goals of governmental agencies. Celebrate the freedom from past tyranny? Sure, let’s celebrate but let’s not lose sight of the tyranny that continues to exist.
extremist,
As long as the Constitution exists, there exists a truth that no tyrant can deny. As to what is or is not tyranny, is quite often a very subjective matter of individual interpretation. While I am disappointed by some SCOTUS rulings regarding the ‘war on terror’, I am excited by rulings like Heller and MacDonald which are clear originalist rulings. Conversely, while I am likewise excited by rulings like Lopez that appear to try to put the commerce clause back in the box of original intent, subsequent rulings wrt medical marijuana that also dealt with the commerce clause, opinions written by the very same authors of Lopez, have hypocritically reversed themselves simply because the justices were bigoted against the type of commerce involved in medical marijuana. I expect we will see a ruling on Obamacare this coming term will likely be a defining return of restraint upon commerce clause power of congress.
That said, there are plenty of people who think that the opposite side of every ruling I cite here is the “pro-liberty” side, when they generally consider positive rights as paramount over negative rights.
These are the skirmishes in the modern day continuation of the American Revolution, they happen in court, and occasionally, in elections, as we vote on amendments, and politicians who steer such things. While many people today think that system is broken and beyond repair, it’s still better than the kool aid that the enemy is selling.
Kodaka, the guy isn’t as polished as we were lead to believe. I am daily reminded of his sloppy pronunciations.
Some have bemoaned the results of 9-11. I agree, yet at the same time wonder , absent better government, what other reactions you would expect. Unfortunately, I don’t think wisdom can be defined in this situation.
I don’t know any of the families of the tragedy, to them I hope each day brings them further from the remembrance.
I place a poster of the Twin Towers inside my front window which is illuminated at night by a 500 watt Quartz lamp for the week before and after 9/11. Everyone knows someone, who knows someone, that died in the Towers this day. I will never forget.
Thank you, Anthony, for this “off topic” post. Something to keep in mind for the next Patriot Day, November 2nd.
sigh… Don’t they teach history anymore?
“extremist”, the response to 9/11 was NOT to invade Iraq. The response was to invade Afghanistan in an attempt to find Bin Laden.
Really, when you have such fundamental errors in even your most basic facts, how can you possibly expect to be taken seriously? Ever?
[extremist, this is the kind of debate that could spiral out of control and is just not really where we want to take this blog. ~ ctm]
[No spoofing Anthony, ~ ctm]
I am not an American, I’m an Englishman who saw, live on TV, the second plane hit. It was in the evening in Hong Kong, I was in my study, surfing the web, when my daughter came and told me that the local TV station was relaying live feed from New York where a plane had hit a building. The TV feed came directly from the USA; no commentary, American or local, was given, just the video feed. I found out later that all four Hong Hong channels carried the same footage.
When the second plane hit I was both devastated and deeply disturbed; I can remember my initial comment to this day (apologies for the language). I said, out loud, “Oh! Shit! This is war.”
Two days ago I raised the flag-pole which the local Council said I could not have and flew the Union Standard at half-mast, after first raising it to the full height of the pole, as is the custom. I kept the Union Standard there until sunset as it is custom that the sun never sets of that flag. I flew the flag in order to remember those who died on that awful day and those who have died since in the conflicts which have followed.
The United States, this Englishman salutes you and all that you have done for Democracy, Justice and for the World. I, for one, will never forget the horror I saw on that day.
I went on holiday to florida just after 9/11, I remember all the cars flying flags.
In case anyone queries the date of my flag-pole raising, the flag will continue to fly at half-mast for another five days.
A week of remembrance is little enough.
I was hitch-hiking that day & was picked up by a Muslim who told me about it & was quite obviously disgusted by the events & also, I think, a little frightened by the possible backlash.
My heart goes out to all who lost on that day, that includes, to an extent, everyone.
DaveE.
I would like to extend my gratitude to Mike the moderator for not allowing troofer bullshit to be discussed on this fine site. I find these discussions to be distasteful any day of the week, but on 9/11 they are insulting and disrespectful.
Troofers should go to some other site that specializes in such things. Report back when you have evidence that the CIA killed JFK, RFK, MLK and the names of the secret society that rules the world.
Not forgetting.
Thanks Anthony, and Mike the mod .
9/11 was a business opportunity. The fact that a ‘Patriot’ Day was established is rather amusing. Sure, it’s unfortunate that people died, but it is just business.
I will always remember that day in work. I was in the office (in the UK) and we had the televisions on tuned to the news channels when the attacks happened. I just thought it was a terrible accident. To be honest, at first I didn’t even think of the human cost. I just thought of the logistics of putting a fire out in a building of that size. There were many rumors about what had happened including one about a terrorist attack but I didn’t think that was realistic because of how high up in the building it happened. Then the second plane hit and, for me, the world changed. I watched with amazement as the towers burned and listened to reports of another 2 .. 5 .. 1 .. 8 planes having being hijacked and heard of the pentagon being hit. Then the first tower fell. I was stunned. I thought I was watching movie. I hoped I was watching a movie. I wish I was watching a movie. But I wasn’t. The second tower fell. You would have thought that would make me realise that what I’m watching is reality but it didn’t it only increased my disconnect. In the end I went home and for the first time since I was child and, despite my complete disbelief in a deity, I said a little prayer.
Re: my previous comment
AP (per the link I provided) appears to have done not a correction but an entire rewrite of the piece, going by that same Yahoo URL. I saw it change before my eyes when I reloaded. I looked, it said it was posted 18 minutes ago, yet Yahoo still had all the old comments from when the original was posted.
The change from the AP seems to have automatically propagated through the system. I have noticed something. As copied from a Google search, the original headline was “9/11 events go on in shadow of Islam controversies.” It has been changed to “Unsettled nation marks 9/11 with rituals of sorrow .” Obama’s words are now emphatically “clarified”: “As Americans we are not — and never will be — at war with Islam,” the president said.
Yes! Much hunting later, I find an apparent mistake:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/sep/11/islam-controversies-cast-shadow-over-911-events/
is going to a third headline I saw floating around, “Dueling protests begin after 9/11 memorial.” It has the original AP wording. Printable version now printed! Page saved locally! Here is the screenshot: http://i55.tinypic.com/2u7m2c5.png
Yes! I have found what appears to be the original piece, view it while you can.
9/11 events go on in shadow of Islam controversies
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/09/10/1817606/911-politicized-by-mosque-quran.html
You know, I read last year over at the Breitbart sites how the media was covering Obama’s gaffes, making retroactive changes to their original reporting after the White House staff “clarified” what Obama said to what he had really meant to say. Strangely enough, I’ve never heard of the media extending such a courtesy to former President George W. Bush.
☺
OK, now what exactly does 9/11 have to do with climate science? Just curious… You don’t see Pharyngula or RealClimate having posts commemorating 9/11
The only reason I can see for this post is to remind the right wing constituency of the blog what they’re really here for…
Umm…, many of our Patriots, are deployed.
God bless them all.
I am a trained machinist, knowledgeable about the heat treatment of steel, and have studied a path traversing machining to knifemaking to bladesmithing to blacksmithing. I know what happens when steel is heated by flame, as with an open-air forge-like environment using an oxidizing flame with effects such as decarbonization, and a reducing flame as well, with scaling to be expected which will destroy all steel in the fire over time. I watched the towers burn, and said “They’re going to fall. Steel can only withstand so much.”
I knew nothing else but those continuous intense fires were needed.
I will always find it difficult to watch the images from that day. On that day a lot of people understandably ran for their lives. However, an uncomfortably large number of brave souls ran the other way, straight into the teeth of hell, never to be seen again.
RE:
GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 4:20 pm
I note that often when asked about such things Anthony refers the inquisitor to header of this site. Essentially, it appears Anthony reserves the right to cover any topic he wants. It is his site.. go figure.
Perhaps Real Climate could do with a bit more patriotism and a lot less rubbish?
Re: GM
So what you are basically saying is that if you commemorate 911 then you are right wing.
Patriotism is rubbish. But you are right that the rubbish here predominates.
What I was saying is that many science blogs cover a lot of other optics in life, but none of the ones I have checked today deemed it necessary to have a 9/11 post. While the ones that pretend to be science blogs do. Why is that I ask?
It depends on HOW you commemorate it. Historically, there have been disasters of the scale and greater all over the world on practically every day of the year, we don’t commemorate the vast majority of them. Why should that date be different? It’s been 9 years, move on.
Excerpt from: GM on September 11, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Yeah, we noticed.
Paul Coppin says:
September 11, 2010 at 12:01 pm
I watched the footage which brought me right back to that day. One thing I noticed in the footage was during the collapse of the North Tower at aroung te 20 minute mark, if you look closely you can see structure standing amidst all the smoke and then it collapses. I have never seen this video before. Thank you for linking.
To all who lost on that day and to all that have lost since. It is a Patriot Day!
GM,
When I see a post on a blog that does not interest me I ignore it. The last thing I would do is tell someone what they can and cannot or should or should not do with what is theirs. Your need to post such a comment reveals a lot about your ( I know better than thee” personality.
Semper Fi and Never Forget!
Nobody’s right about everything whether in politics, science or personal choices – if they were, maybe they’d be some kind of “god”. I am a “truther” because the official conspiracy theory doesn’t make sense. I am a climate skeptic because AGW doesn’t make sense.
GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Why don’t you just move on from this thread. Why do you have such a need to get in everybody else’s space?
As far as your Patriotism is rubbish. You are most welcome from me and my fellow veterans for providing you the opportunity to post, speak, write anything you like in this great country.
Excerpt from: GM on September 11, 2010 at 5:01 pm
It is pleasing to see you engage in freedom of expression on this day, of which your right to do so was secured by true patriots. I thank you for providing by demonstration such a fitting tribute, as we also remember, from among those who were lost, the selfless emergency responders who rescued whom they could without regard to the personal beliefs of those they helped.
Be at peace, fellow child of God.
I guess we always knew that there were some creepy people around the world .
But I just never really get over the creeps, misanthropes, and nutbars in our own midst.
It is sad.
PS Nice Vid Code Tech.
kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
September 11, 2010 at 4:32 pm
I watched the towers burn, and said “They’re going to fall. Steel can only withstand so much.”
___________________________________________________
The fact that fanatics had flown hijacked commercial jets into the WTC towers shocked and stunned the nation. What REALLY shocked the nation was watching the towers fall live on TV. I know I was shocked.
A very good friend of mine is a mechanical engineer (and Distinguished Scientist) at Sandia National Labs. On the morning of 9/11/01 he and a few other engineers were watching the events on TV. These are guys who design containers to withstand being dropped from planes or hit by trains and keep control mechanisms in nuke plants safe from fire. As they watched the towers burn they just looked at each other and said “the towers are going to collapse”. I didn’t have a clue nor would I have believed it until I saw it happen on live TV. What an elegantly simple plot! All that was required to bring down the mighty towers was some structural damage and fire…and gravity. Once one floor collapses onto the one below it all structural integrity is lost and it implodes like an accordion. It was unbelievable…almost impossible for a non-engineer to comprehend. The devastating loss of lives within a span of mere minutes was even harder to comprehend.
People talk about the JFK assassination and the “loss of innocence” in America. I was not quite 7 years old that bleak November day but the details are etched in my memory. I can recall every minute detail of 9/11 as if it happened yesterday…from watching CNN with my morning coffee to driving the 2 hours home from a Navajo clinic late in the day and not seeing a single contrail in the clear, blue September sky. This event shook our nation’s sense of safety and security. From the perspective of a terrorist it was a complete success.
In the weeks that followed you saw American flags everywhere. Emotions ran very hot (as well they should). Alas…how quickly we forget. Recently a school kid in Colorado was ordered to remove the 5″ x 8″ American flag he had affixed to his vehicle’s antenna because it may “offend the sensibilities” of some of the other students. I agree with Mr. Watts. On this day, especially, we should proudly and defiantly fly our country’s banner…and we should NEVER forget.
GM says:
==============
Yet, it calls, to no avail.
I commemorated 9/11 this year with a day of prayer, silence and not dwelling on the details. I didn’t discuss it or blog about it or upset any strangers in the pub by mentioning it in any way, shape or form. And I stayed away from any blog or other medium where I judged it would be likely to be mentioned. And now I come here and Anthony spoils everything for me by posting a “reminder”, as is his right.
Charles the moderator’s comment “this is the kind of debate that could spiral out of control and is just not really where we want to take this blog” is well taken. We are in the midst of a propaganda war on the subject of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming, and I for one wouldn’t want to see 9/11 used as a wedge issue by the alarmist camp to split the skeptics or to discredit the excellent reputation of Anthony and this site.
At the same time, putting up a 9/11 reminder post is like a red rag to a bull. Asking people to remember those “who gave their lives” and at the same time forbidding discussion of whether those lives were given or taken, who took them, how and why, is simply asking for trouble. This is because the 9/11 issue is like the global warming issue on steroids. Lots of theories, lots of blatant propaganda, lots of misinformation, disinformation, obfuscation, fear, loathing and denial, with plenty of scientific questions thrown in for those who want to look into them and potential links to deaths of untold millions if the proposed agendas stemming from the acceptance of the “official consensus” (green taxes, carbon trading and massive reductions in energy consumption in one case and a bloated security state, militarization and an endless wars on the other) are carried out.
I’m not a particularly excitable chap, but see how it gets me going? And for that reason, at least on WUWT, I’m going to deal with 9/11 the same way the French used to deal with Alsace and Lorraine: “always think of it, never speak of it.”
GM says:
Historically, there have been disasters of the scale and greater all over the world on practically every day of the year, we don’t commemorate the vast majority of them. Why should that date be different? It’s been 9 years, move on.>>
While your comment is technically accurate, I for one shall not move on until the twisted, sick, and downright evil in which this attack was rooted has been defeated. When the ideology that led to this horrific act, a terrorist attack on civilization itself is nothing but a distant memory, then I would have some respect for such a suggestion. As anyone who flies frequently can tell you, the threat remains real and current, the cost to society to prevent another attack by similar means enormous, and those who died were the victims of a new and difficult matter for civilization to deal with, acts of war by none state actors.
We would be fools to “move on” while the war continues. Just because the latest fatalities are not on U.S. soil does not mean that the war is over, and brave soldiers put their lives on the line every single day to contain and hopefully some day eleminate the threat.
I have no flag pole on which to fly a flag at half mast, but I take as many as 50 flights per year. Every single time I pass through security I remember 9/11.
GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 5:01 pm
You made the choice to read the post.
For the life of me if people are so “upset” or feel the manner in which or even if Anthony should have posted this, why are you reading it?
I don’t care for the adult magazine rack at the local Liquor store, but I don’t review some magazines and then go bitch at the store owner about it!
For the record, the concept of a bearded man in the sky looks after you tops the list of the most ridiculous ideas humanity have ever made up in its ignorance about the way the world works. And it’s a very long list.
More than 5 million people died in Eastern Congo in the last decade and a half so that we can have iPhones and write these posts on blogs and message boards, more than a million completely innocent people were killed and two countries were ruined in retaliation (according to the official version, that is) to 9/11; you rarely here about them, yet compared to those numbers, the few thousands that dies on 9/11 while a real tragedy, are simply nothing.
davidmhoffer,
Thank you, Sir, for your comments.
Perhaps it’s easier for some to forget the events of 9/11. For me they are impossible to forget. This was an attack on MY nation and MY way of life and ultimately, on MY beliefs…and on MY fellow citizens. This cannot be swept aside nor forgiven.
The cavilers here are absolutely correct. This has nothing to do with AGW. This is an issue of the sovereignty of a nation. And for that I extend my sincere thanks to Anthony Watts.
It makes a lot of sense to exclude 9/11 discussion on this website. It would go on for ever and detract from the focus on the effects, or lack of effects, of carbon dioxide for which this site is famous. Anyone interested in the topic can easily move to places devoted to it, and I suggest they do so, rather than prolonging the discussion here. Here are a couple of good places:
http://www.scienceof911.com.au/
http://911truthnews.com/
GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 7:23 pm
Well GM then go do something about it rather than just bitch about it. Fly to the Congo, pickup a rifle and fight for what you believe.
For the record, people like GM just bitch, they never take up a cause and act. They are lazy whiners whose only goal is to find fault in anything and bitch about it. The most pathetic members of society.
[snip -over the top]
Frank Legge says:
September 11, 2010 at 7:40 pm
Those sites are laughable, void of logic, void of science, void of evidence and certainly void of relevance.
It’s a good thing all those cleanup workers have kept their mouths shut aabout all the primer cord they found. Also a good thing the planes hit exactly where they needed.
Serious are we really going to let the insane “troofers” post their BS.
Odd, that, GM, for an individual so concerned about humanity (in truth, contemptuous), you seem so devoid of it… Perhaps you can find a creative outlet for your bitterness. They say finger painting is therapeutic.
9/11 is my father’s birthday, may he rest in peace. He had died a couple of years previous. Its also the birthday of a colleague’s son, 16 at the time he was, should have been thinking of driver’s licences, cars and girls, instead of being glued to the TV, on his birthday, wondering if he would ever have a future.
Some of us are forever bound to 9/11. Moving on is not possible. Some years, the memories of my father come first, others, the memories of the horror of watching that day unfold, then follows the guilt of not thinking of him sooner. I was on the phone to a company in Iowa, chatting with a sales rep, when their office began to buzz with the news. I joked with the rep and made some inane comment, not believing what was being described. I was obliged later to call her back and proffer my apologies for my insensitivity, whch she graciously accepted.
GM, you need to deal with your own demons, the rest of us are busy with ours. As a first responder, I especially nod to the 343 firemen and city staffers who ran into that mess to help, and didn’t come out.
Oh, it comes as no surprise that RC doesn’t have a 9/11 day. Intellectually bereft that it is, its no surprise that its soul-less too. Doesn’t mind being paid in greenbacks, however.
If you haven’t seen my other posts on this blog, I stand “on the other side” of the fence on pretty much everything this blog writes about. I read it because I want to understand what the motivation of the people who post here is. So far I have seen a confirmation of what has been known before, i.e., there is a very significant correlation between the following:
1. Religiosity
2. Generally right wing political convictions and firm belief in free market ideology; “patriotism” falls somewhere here too.
3. Rejection of AGW
4. Rejection of the existence of any limits to growth
5. Rejection of the theory of evolution
6. Rejection of a number of other well established scientific theories
7. Rejection of the authority of expertise, general anti-intellectualism and anti-science stance
The question is which of these is the cause and which the consequence, if a simple such relationship exists.
REPLY: What I want to know is why do biologists/life sciences people often get so swept up in this? – Anthony
Gm,
You are not trying to understand people, you are labeling them and putting them in boxes. “Rejection of the authority of expertise…” LMAO yeah that is my philosphy!
Oops I just found evidence to support the “troofers”
Government: We want to cause a tragedy so great the American people will blindly follow us into war… What do you think gentlemen…
Accomplice #1: Well, the Towers are a perfect choice.. It’s been bombed before. We can just blame Osama again. We’ve been priming the American people by having him blow up our warships and our buildings in other countries.
Government: Yeah, good idea! How will we do that?
Accomplice #1: We can hire Osama to get some of his friends to fly planes into it!
Accomplice #2: Wait… I have a better idea, We can BOMB the buildings!
Accomplice #1: Well, that means placing enough bombs into two 110 story buildings. That’s going to take a lot of man power and risk us being uncovered…
Accomplice #2: Yeah, but that way, you’re sure to knock them down. Besides, maybe the hijackers won’t make it to the target. Maybe they’ll be uncovered!
Accomplice #1: But you don’t need to knock them down, all you need is the horrific sight of the planes hitting the buildings. People will get the message. It’s an attack on American soil. We’ll also have people like the blind sheik to cover for us. We’ll even put a guy on a train with evidence.
Your plan isn’t perfect either, you know. Do I have to remind you of Operation Towel Pop? We already tried to embarrass Clinton by knocking it down and failed.
Accomplice #2: Yeah, our Bay of Pigs, but I say the only way they can get the message is if we knock them down.
Accomplice #1: Do not
Accomplice #2: Do too
Accomplice #1: Do not
Accomplice #2: Do too
Accomplice #1: Do not
Accomplice #2: Do too
Government: Gentlemen, gentlemen… Please… What the hell, we’ll just do both! :blink: How do we do that? I mean, how do you keep explosions from showing up on TV? We’re going to have to investigate this at some point. How do we cover up the scene?
Accomplice #2: But why not just knock it dow…
Government: I’ve made my decision. Continue…
Accomplice #2: OK.. We install charges on every floor so that after the planes hit, we blow each floor under the crash floor one by one, very fast to simulate pancaking. We’ll let the building burn a while just for effect. This will also give time for the trusses to sag making it LOOK like a fire caused the building to fall.
Accomplice #1: Nice touch…
Accomplice #2: Why, thank you. 🙂 …We’ll set a charge off in the middle of the building AFTER the top is on its way down so everyone thinks the puffs of debris coming from the windows are from the tremendous hypodermic needle like pressure blowing debris from the weakest point in the building.
Government: What about the sound of explosions? Isn’t that a dead giveaway?
Accomplice #2: No problem, We’ll just let them think it’s normal electrical explosions like transformers blowing up or the initial concrete and steel and floors hitting the floors below.
Accomplice #1: Yeah, it could also be the steel columns snapping like twigs from the tremendous weight of the floors above… Don’t worry, we have disinformation specialists in key internet forums.
Government: WOW, You guys think of everything.. What about Building 7? Can we take that out at the same time?
Accomplice #1: We won’t be able to fly planes into it, that’s for sure…
Accomplice #2: Leave it to me. If we set off the explosions just right, we can have one of the towers hit Building 7, missing the two next to it. After that, we can set fires on the bottom floors and let it burn for a while, you know, to make it look possible for a normal collapse. I’ll call my agent in the fire department to get everyone out before we blow it. I’ll figure a way to make the floors look buckled for effect as well.
Government: Amazing … I also want to take out the Pentagon. Any suggestions?
Accomplice #1: What we’ll do is hijack a plane just for effect, then fire a missile at the Pentagon. A bunker buster.
Government: But what about the people on the plane?
Accomplice #1: We’ll land the plane in area 51, then shoot them all.
Government: Why not use the plane instead of the missile? That way, you take care of all the evidence at the same time… People on the highway can also see the planes hit. If you use a missile, there’s going to be a lot of witnesses who saw a missile and not a plane.
Accomplice #1: Err… ah, don’t worry about these small details. I have an undercover op in the DC police department who will take the names down and shot them all.
Government: How are you going to get all the people involved in this? Bush isn’t exactly loved you know..
Accomplice #1: Don’t worry, psych-ops will take care of the brainwashing of the American people. As for the media, we control the left and the right!
Government: GREAT! Nice work all! Let’s make the target date Sept 11, 2001.
http://www.debunking911.com/meeting.htm
REPLY: What I want to know is why do biologists/life sciences people often get so swept up in this? – Anthony
I’m not sure that its fair to lump biologists (life sciences are another matter) in with those who are simply arrogant and contemptuous. That character flaw is shared by all learned professions. Look no further than the world of “climate scientists”. Not all of us (biologists) feel we’ve been ordained or anointed. Some of us remain, after decades, simply in awe of the chaotic splendour of life. Usually, those in the profession who conjure up lists like the one above are not especially good or even understand their field of study very well. Certainly, no chordate biologist worthy of his study would prepare a list as droll as that.
From: GM on September 11, 2010 at 7:23 pm
A bearded man in the sky? What primitive imagery is this? Do you likewise reject medicine because you can only envision bloodletting and tribal healers?
Indeed, my brother or sister, it is truly a wonder that it is not required that you believe in the divine being, as they know that you exist thus you may still be put to a good purpose. For as it is needed that evil exist so mankind may recognize what is good, you serve the master by providing a great example that others may compare their own behavior against.
As a wise and deeply spiritual man once observed about humanity, we find it easier to understand the death of one than the death of a million. Also, as commented on by a man whose intellect and skill perhaps one such as yourself may admire, one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.
It wasn’t long after the towers came down, here in Canada, the planes started to arrive. Plane after plane of stranded Americans and visitors, told only that something had happened, the airspace was closed, they wouldn’t be flying back home anytime soon. The jumbos were lined up everywhere; shelter was having to be arranged for thousands of passengers. Bus companies struggled to find enough coaches to make runs south. People here actually drove some of the stranded across the US to get them home.
That’s a perfectly ridiculous analogy. Every intelligence agency in the world agreed that Saddam Hussein had chemical and probably biological weapons, plus a nuclear program aimed at a weapon; Saddam’s intelligence service was in cahoots with Al Qaeda. We had been at war with Saddam for a decade, halted for a few years by a truce which Saddam violated constantly. It was only logical to conclude that he would be only too happy to transfer WMD technology to the anti-American Islamist terror networks, and was therefore an imminent threat to vital American interests. That Saddam and his sons were about the nastiest bastards on the planet at the time made getting rid of him a service to his country and the rest of the world.
True, there is no evidence that atmospheric CO2 poses any threat whatsoever to anyone, so to compare the two is absurd.
/Mr Lynn
I was flying on September 11th, 2001. I don’t recall whether or not the route that day from Houston took us past New York, but it sometimes did when the Atlantic winds were right. We had just landed in London when the barbarian dogs began their slaughter.
My crew was stranded in England for a week, and we had no way of letting our families know that we weren’t the ones murdered because the transatlantic cables were overloaded with traffic. It was a grim time in my life, even grimmer for those crews stranded at more out of the way airports.
I take the attacks of Muslims against the more civilized world personally. That they would try to build a 9-11 Victory Mosque at Ground Zero to rub our noses in their triumph, I do not find surprising, but I do find the myriads who defend that insult offensive.
Because they have the longest history of facing the problems I listed, and they are involved in pretty much all of them (climate scientists don’t have to battle creationists), which means that they have had the most time to think about the origin of such idea and to connect the dots. The point is that it seems that for a very large number of people, what comes first is their religious and political convictions, to which the science is to be fitted, even though they may try their very best to make it look as if the opposite is the case. Which is why my alarm bell rings when I see posts like this one.
REPLY: Alarm bells ring because I made a post reminding people about honoring those lost in the 9-11 tragedy? How bizarre. – Anthony
This is what you posted:
Patriotism and freedom on one side, “tyranny” on the other. Key words indeed.
If the US wanted to free the world from the “tyranny” of religious fundamentalism, it would not respond with its own Christian brand of it, but would work very hard to loosen the grip that Islam has on societies in the Middle East. That means doing such things as investing in modern schools and education there and putting pressure on those countries to modernize their society, things that would achieve a lot more to solve the problem with terrorism (and at a fraction of the cost) than bombing Iraq and Afghanistan did and playing intricate geopolitical games so that its oil supply is secure.
REPLY: Well you are entitled to your opinion. I still think your reaction of “alarm bells” is bizarre. – Anthony
GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Have you made your flight arrangements to the Congo yet? Do you need a recommendation at the type of weapon you should get? How many more thousands are going to die from your inaction?
GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 9:28 pm
So instead of going to the Congo you are headed to Saudi Arabia or Iran to help build schools? When are you leaving?
GM
You admit that Islam has a grip on societies in various countries,then you say we can loosen that grip by building schools etc.How do you monitor that school after it is built?Wouldn’t you be giving the ones with the grip more venues to enforce that grip?
The ones with the grip do not want their children to be educated or corrupted by western decadence.
They prefer to do the corrupting,keeps that grip in place.
Pressure has been put on those countries for years,some pressure has paid off,various laws have been changed,but now those with the grip are being reinforced by those who say,Islam is no threat,it is a religion of peace.
It may well be a religion of peace,but those with the grip don’t seem to practise the peaceful version.
The one with the grip in Iraq is gone,and best of all, the successors to come after him are gone now too.
Maybe the one with the grip will be back in Iraq one day,but it is hopeful that the people will not allow it to happen because they are tasting freedom right now.
People’s freedoms are being eroded all the time.The more they succeed the less freedom you have.How else do you protect a country from another 911?
GM,
You are either pursuing an agenda to the exclusion of all logical thought and premise, or you are simply so far over your head on these issues that you don’t know you are drowning.
For starters, had you simply suggested that the plight of those being victimized by their own countrymen in places such as the Congo, Somalia, Sudan, North Korea and so on should also be remembered and not swept under the rug, you likely would have gotten some support. But you conflated arguments such as these by casting the military invasion of Afghanistan as “revenge” and suggested that it ruined those two countries.
“Revenge” was by no means the rational for military action in Afghanistan, it was a matter of pursuing the enemy in his place of refuge with the goal of eliminating the enemies infrastructure, supply lines, and as many of his combatants as possible. This is prudent use of military force as it constrains the enemy’s ability to act against you, and it serves notice to other countries which may grant such as Al Queda a safe haven that there may be a price to pay for doing so and they perhaps will rethink it. Had simple revenge been all the was on the minds of the coalition, it could have been accomplished in a matter of minutes without a single coalition casualty.
As for being “ruined”, as someone who followed events in Afghanistan and Iraq for many years before 9/11, I find that comment rather odd. Afghanistan under the Taliban was a cesspool of hatred and intolerance and repression that none but the willfuly blind would see as better than what exists today. Not that the war in Afghanistan couldn’t have been managed better, but the population lived an existance that made even the Dark Ages look mild.
Iraq under Suddam Hussein wasn’t much better. While detractors are quick to point out that as many as 100,000 Iraqi’s may have died due to the invasion, Saddam’s rule accounted for wars that killed over a million people, and he butchered hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. Had it not been for over 10 years of British and American air force protection enforcing the “no fly zone”, there is no doubt that the Marsh Arabs and the Kurds of Iraq would have long since been exterminated.
It is terribly naive to throw around suggestion like building schools as if this solves the problem. The problem however, is that can only be of value if those who attend those schools are safe from terrorists who throw acid in their faces as they leave the school, potentially blinding them and disfiguring them for life, not to mention the risk teachers face of being kindnapped and tortured to death.
The world is a bit more complicated than you seem to think GM. Invading Afghanistan was about taking the war to the enemy and fighting the enemy on his ground, not ours. It is a tragedy that innocent people die in order for that to happen, but perhaps Al Queda and the Taliban should have thought about that. Perhaps they thought America would just sit idly by and wait for another attack on American soil. I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know this. Life under the Taliban and Saddam was a life of daily terror, repression, and little hope for the future. Those countries may sieze the opportunity to build a better society for the future, and they may well slip back into their medieval past. But at least they will have had a chance to make the change, something they would not have achieved otherwise. They are hardly ruined in comparison to what they were, and they have an open door now to be much better than they could have otherwise become.
9/11 needs to be remembered not simply because so many died in such a tragic manner, but because those who perpetrated those attacks have a vision of the world with them in charge and all of the rest us living the life of despair and repression that the Taliban and the ilk represent.
As for your list of what the core beliefs are of people who support this site, I have to advise you that you get a failing grade on my account at any rate.
I had been on holiday in Sorrento, near Naples, in Italy with my Venezuelan girlfriend for a few days. On September 11th we were on the train back to Rome when we heard some guy talking on the phone. I can’t speak Italian so my girlfriend was translating what the guy was saying into Spanish. We thought he must have been mad as we he was going on about the end of the world.
We checked into a hotel in Rome and our TV wasn’t working and I never bothered to get it fixed. Later that night we went out for a meal but we never heard anything about what had happened in New York the day before.
The next day we went out for lunch in a bar and the TV was on and it was only then when we realised what had happened.
Thinking about things I remembered walking past an open air concert the night before and the band had been playing “New York, New York”
.
‘How else do you protect a country from another 911?’
Remove the evil from within !!!!!!
Dr? Dave: ‘These are guys who design containers to withstand being dropped from planes or hit by trains and keep control mechanisms in nuke plants safe from fire. As they watched the towers burn they just looked at each other and said “the towers are going to collapse”. ‘
if i’m not allowed to challenge this nonsense here, i don’t see why it should be here.
now maybe we know why so many of the public accept dangerous AGW without looking at the science.
REPLY: You may think it is nonsense. The fact is that many of us here are experienced engineers in structures, aerospace, etc. The Truther argument is so incorrect it isn’t even wrong, it utterly fails Occam’s Razor, as well as every point by point in the truther arguments. I won’t go over it here, and this blog is not going to become a haven for Truther conspiracy theories, ESPECIALLY on this day, it is entirely rude and offensive to do so. You wouldn’t walk around the Arizona Memorial telling all the veterans that their buddies were all killed by a conspiracy between Roosevelt and jewish bankers, would you (you’d probably get your butt kicked)??? – Mike
Shortly before the third leg of the Elevation Tour, the September 11 attacks occurred in New York City and Washington D.C. During the band’s first show in New York City following the attacks, the band performed “Where the Streets Have No Name”, and when the stage lights illuminated the audience, the band saw tears streaming down the faces of many fans.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJUvAA7jOFs8&v=JUvAA7jOFs8&gl=US
Where The Streets Have No Name (2002 Super Bowl Live)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dgq08ouOwiqQ&v=gq08ouOwiqQ&gl=US
I don’t know the truth about 9/11. Whether it was bin Laden or a stitch-up, it was terrible. I think truth is important… but not when it unleashes emotions so violent that peace cannot be brokered. Healing situations often needs ugly truths to be exposed… but only to release them with forgiveness. Patriotism can be both vice and virtue… but currently its virtues are too often forgotten in the name of “political correctness” or some such mud-in-mouth blather that stops us seeing the nuances.
I am both proud and ashamed, at different times, to be British. I wish we used flagpoles more. We have Saint George’s Day but I know of none to celebrate Britannia. That would be nice. But we did originate the Silent Minute, used during World War II and described by a high-ranking Nazi officer after the war as the one weapon they could not match. It would be good to have a day remembering such things, that can still counteract things like the current science whitewashes.
All this is giving me ideas.
As an Australian I saw this as a black day for all people living in freedom. This attack was no less than the attack on Pearl Harbour. To count it as some thing less is political correctness gone mad. Sadly Islam uses the same tactics as the AGW crowd to make people believe that it is all our fault. In the manner that we remember our war dead, I spent a minute in contemplative silence for those that perished. Lest we forget.
From: mike on September 12, 2010 at 1:43 am
This “nonsense” is based on long-observed properties of materials. Can you provide a presentation that shows, given the structural damage and the intense fires, based on knowledge of the materials used in construction, that the towers should not have fallen?
BTW, thermite is simply a mixture of ground-up metals and metal oxide particles, recipes are freely available. As evidenced by the clouds of dust and fine debris, there were large amounts of mechanical grinding during the collapses. Fine particles of metals that were in the buildings would have been present, including steel (and thus rust), aluminum, even copper and some magnesium. The area was liberally hosed down with water, by that and otherwise the fine particulates were gathered together. Thus the presence of mixtures in the wreckage that some may consider evidence of thermite having been in the buildings, is not unexpected. Heck, given the range of substances found in those buildings, from cleaning fluids and photocopier toner to soda and vitamin/mineral supplements, and the products of combustion from the fires (the wreckage burned and smoldered for days), finding substances that could be the residues of explosives is not surprising either.
Kadaka, yes, thermite is a simple mixture of iron oxide and aluminium powder, but nanothermite is not. It is very difficult to make. See this paper:
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
Frank Legge said on September 12, 2010 at 3:37 am:
Well, despite that I’m using a Linux box, it is still good internet practice to be wary of strange sites. And Wikipedia does have an easy-to-digest nano-thermite entry…
… … … …
It uses particles of a very fine size, which some would describe as “pulverized.” I’m pretty sure that can be done with a concrete slab moving relatively fast, either against a material being ground or with the material between that and a relatively stationary slab. There is also a pulverizing action on impact. Studying the methods, vapor deposition of layers should work, and there were certainly vaporized metals present due to the heat of the fires. Also, “Aluminium-iron(II,III) oxide” (aluminum and rust) is a possible combination, same as with basic thermite.
What am I missing? (And more importantly, why am I still awake? I’ll be back later.)
BTW Frank, “SGM” file extension? What’s that?
Huh?
nice to have frank legge around. but this isn’t a blog for this stuff. all i would say, kadaka, is i wanted to discuss only the collapses (i.e. velocity thereof with respect to steel structures). anyway, i think i can go elsewhere to discuss this. bb.
if i’m not allowed to challenge this nonsense here, i don’t see why it should be here.
Perhaps in a lighter (and perhaps somewhat regretful) moment, Anthony will start a thread on the science (engineering really – the science is pretty mundane) of large scale free-standing columns, to air the myths and misunderstandings about what keeps them up. Especially those built of a high percentage of inelastic materials.
As a a sailor and (former) yacht owner, I have an intimate understanding of what it takes to keep a vertical structure in column, most especially when you are applying horizontal loads measured in tons, which, if allowed, will make a pretzel out of the strongest w/v materials we have. It isn’t, and shouldn’t be, rocket science to understand why the towers came down. A course in first year classical mechanics will suffice.
Stripped bare, horror was visited on individuals and nations for no worthwhile purpose – not for the sake of anybody’s God, not for the advancement of any higher purpose of any defined religion. The entire event was profane from beginning to end. Nations, most especially the US, but many others as well since individuals of some 90 ethnic and national origins died that day, have every right, and indeed, obligation, to remember those who were lost, and those who were lost trying to save. We don’t remember every human tragedy; perhaps we should, but 9/11 is remembered because of the sheer audacity of the evil perpetrated. President Obama might prefer to exclaim that America is “not at war with Islam”, but he’d be wrong. Wrong to fail to understand that western civilization is at war with the evil that lies in the dark hearts of men in the name of any religion.
9/11 is a stark reminder to all that blind faith in the dogma of any belief system is fraught with peril, since it can be no more than an abstraction of reality, and barely even representative of it. GM, Mike, and Pederson, you need to go and find someone to hold and to love. 9/11 is about losing forever, that opportunity.
extremist says:
September 11, 2010 at 12:23 pm
The response to 911 (invading Iraq) was somehow similar to the response to global warming (reduce atmospheric CO2). Given the essentially illogical and reality-ignoring natures of both these response, are we really sure that we are free from tyranny today? More abstractly, can we ever be free from the tyranny of majority rule?
__________________________-
Actually is “can we ever be free from the tyranny of rule by the powerful and wealthy?” They used to call them Aristocrats but since the French revolution they have gone underground and rule from behind. All you have to do is look at the Corporate, lobbyist, government revolving doors.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/208403-wall-street-and-government-revolving-door-spins-at-dizzying-pace
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Government-industry_revolving_door
Mike McMillan says:
September 11, 2010 at 9:10 pm
…..I take the attacks of Muslims against the more civilized world personally. That they would try to build a 9-11 Victory Mosque at Ground Zero to rub our noses in their triumph, I do not find surprising, but I do find the myriads who defend that insult offensive.
____________________________-
I agree whole heartedly. That NYC and the US government would actually allow this insult to the American people by enemies of the USA, and it is an insult and not “religious freedom”, I find pathetic and indicative of the problems of this once great nation. “Politically Correct” once a derogatory term for unreasoning group think, has become the norm.
The Origins of Political Correctness: http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness
It is quite ironic that we would go to war causing the death of hundreds of thousands and yet the same ideology we are actively fighting is allowed to build a victory monument in our country!
GM do not try to pull the Muslim-phobe card because my favorite grandparent was Muslim. I was raised VERY religiously/ethnically tolerant.
I don’t think we are free from tyranny at all. Our elected presidents pass laws much as a king would, with no consent of congress. Checks and balances are out the window. Trillions are given to favored banks and corporations without taxpayer approval. Our civil liberties are violated each time we board an airline flight. The IRS digs deep into our personal lives. I could go on and on and on. 9/11 was used by politicians to impose even more more and more restrictions on our freedom. It’s sad that innocent lives were lost on 9/11. It is sadder that 9/11 was used as an excuse to cause more innocent lives to be lost in countries that had nothing to do with 9/11, and that flag-wavers will use that day as an excuse to take away more and more of our sacred liberties.
“Kadaka, yes, thermite is a simple mixture of iron oxide and aluminium powder, but nanothermite is not. It is very difficult to make. See this paper:”
Ignorant and insulting hand waving.
Anyone who thinks that virtual army of fake elevator repair people invaded te WTC and put explosives anywhere, everywhere, was never there, doesn’t understand the Port Authority’s actual authority, and insults pretty much everyone who works on any large building on NY. As it happens I used to work in these buildings with a cart of equipment.
Even in 1990 ( Before the first bombing) you couldn’t just waltz in and out of ANY building in the area with anything more than a briefcase, and dismissing all of these people who take and took their jobs extremely seriously ( from security guards down to Janitors) is a damnable insult , and just shows the low regard that such idiots have for their fellow man.
There is NO version ( among the many) of the truther narrative that stands up to any actual knowledge . I am not an engineer, but I understood the differences that allowed straight up construction of 1/4 mile in height . I have no patirence for explaining the truth to troothers anymore.
As far as I am concerned they are merely repeating and expanding enemy propaganda
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/28/deborchgrave-sept-2001-interview-hameed-gul/
There should be consequences. ‘ ‘ ‘ [ one of which will be this site getting bogged down with ping pong over conspiracy nuts . . is that what is wanted? mod]
” is that what is wanted?”
Emphatically NO. And I hesitate to even add what I did, which is a small ray of light in this voluminous subject.
But they are persistent and it is insulting, and they are sneaking it in and need to be shamed.
I regularly participate in this forum, and think that anthropogenic climate change ideology is anti-scientific rubbish. Well, let us see how well our leftist friend GM understands people who regularly participate in this forum. GM postulates that our characteristic traits, in his limited understanding, are as follows:
1. Religiosity
I am an atheist. Test failed.
2. Generally right wing political convictions and firm belief in free market ideology; “patriotism” falls somewhere here too.
I am a pro-choice libertarian. Test failed.
As to “patriotism”, is has to be exactly defined to be discussed any further. There is a patriotism of scoundrels, and there is patriotism of heroes. Quite different things.
3. Rejection of AGW
I reject not only AGW but any other emotional or ideological theory not based on observable, independently proven facts. AGW is politically charged, utterly corrupt voodoo science. However, there are more than enough brainwashed participants here, including yourself, who have fallen into the fold of the green religion. Test failed.
4. Rejection of the existence of any limits to growth
Various people have various ideas here on this subject but I have never heard from any of them that there aren’t any limits of growth. Test failed.
5. Rejection of the theory of evolution
Oh, no. Evolution (natural selection) is not a theory, it is a fact of life, and solid majority of the regular WUWT participants would never do anything so stupid. Test failed.
6. Rejection of a number of other well established scientific theories
Too vague a statement to serve as a test. On any forum there are many points of view on scientific theories that some consider “well established” (whatever this means), and others do not.
7. Rejection of the authority of expertise, general anti-intellectualism and anti-science stance
A self-contradictory statement that cannot serve as a test. We reject the authority of the self-appointed shamans who hide the facts, corrupt the science, and deny the access to their methodology and data. We welcome the authority of the scientific experts who make their conclusions on the basis of the observable and accessible factual data, not on the wishes of some political clique or “establishment”. Actually, you can find more intellect and real science (and much less abuse, foul language, and infantile trolling) on this forum than on most other “progressive” sites.
For a person who tries to “understand” the participants of WUWT, you have not achieved much, GM.
Actually, you are a liar and a bad scientist, because you made a prejudiced conclusion before you studied the subject, only pretending that you are doing research: exactly the way your AGW friends are conducting the embezzlement of public funds they claim to be their “science.”
P.S.
“Firm belief in free market ideology” is somehow a mark of being “right-wing”?
Funny. Do your “science” in North Korea, then. Their fearless leaders share your concern about free market.
GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 8:08 pm
For my part you are wrong on every count here.
I recommend you go away and do some growing up.
@ Alexander Feht:
Do you understand the meaning of the word “correlation”? Apparently not…
GM says:
September 12, 2010 at 1:46 pm
@ Alexander Feht:
Do you understand the meaning of the word “correlation”? Apparently not…
_________________________________
No one much cares what you think or say at this point. Have you made your travel arrangements yet to a Muslim country? I mean, you are going to build schools to teach them, are you not?
GM,
Yes, I understand the meaning of the word “correlation.”
There is no correlation between your question and my remarks.
Come on GM you talk a lot, where is the passion for your causes? We all thought you are a man of action, rather than just another gum flapper.
9/11, I am terribly sorry for all who lost their lives or loved ones on the day and in the invasions, both civilians and military. It is really a sad sad matter that their memories are used to further the agenda of those who did the deeds. The biggest business in the world is doing better than ever.
So what is the meaning of those words; ” From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli ………… ” Did somebody writing a song just dredge up Tripoli as something to rhyme with “sea” in a following line. What the hell is Tripoli doing in the Marine Corps Anthem.
Well as it turns out during the George Washington Presidency, some 10% of the US Budget was to pay protection money to a murdering bunch of mohammedan pirates; who raided US commercial shipping in international waters; killing or enslaving US citizens if we didn’t pay their blood money. Then when John Adams became President; the extortion went up to 20% of the US budget to pay off these outlaw pirates.
So when Jefferson became the Third US President, he decided enough was enough. The Ambassader from Tripoli had said that the US had to acknowledge mohammad and koran law or pay for safe passage. So Jefferson sent in the Marines; to put a stop to those pirate savages.
That’s how Tripoli (Libya) comes to be in the Marine anthem.
So we’ve been kowtowing to these hoodlums pretty much ever since; and we can’t say anything about it in case the mohammedan world gets upset.
Well let them get upset. Who gives a tinkers damn what the moslem world thinks of us; our way of life (free world) is completely outside the tenets of the koran; so there is no common ground; it is their way or the hiway.
Well it is time we stopped being afraid of pissing off a bunch of 7th century thinking savages. There’s already enough of them ticked off; who cares how many more get annoyed.
The local Downtown Sunnyvale Saturday morning farmers market, always has a mohammedan booth staffed by some sort of Arab bloke; well it is actually outside the market at the Sunnyvale Railway Station; but you can’t get into the market without going by his booth where you can get a free koran; and an ear full of his diatribe against free peoples.
So this Saturday 9/11/2010 the Arab guy didn’t have the balls to show up outside the market; so his spot got commandeered by a green propaganda group instead.
Too many Americans including the President of the USA simply refuse to acknowledge the enermy that we face; and it isn’t some ticked off chap who didn’t like what somebody said about his primitive backward culture; that has advanced almost no way since the 7th century.
America is tolerant of anybody who comes here peacefully; and accepts America’s way of life and our laws and concepts of individual liberty and freedom. We don’t care what religion; if any they practice; so long as it doesn’t infringe on anybody else’s freedom of expression either. But we are not going to bow down; as our President did, to some foreign bunch who wouldn’t know civilization if it ran them down in the street.
Some may forget 9/11. And some of us never will; or who and what did it. I’d suggest that next time; we forget about Tripoli and concentrate on Mecca and Medina; in either order; until they get our message.
George E. Smith says:
September 13, 2010 at 9:43 am (Edit)
So what is the meaning of those words; ” From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli ………… ” Did somebody writing a song just dredge up Tripoli as something to rhyme with “sea” in a following line. What the hell is Tripoli doing in the Marine Corps Anthem. . . . .
Boy oh boy , did you nail that.
Well said Mr Smith
“”” GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 4:20 pm
OK, now what exactly does 9/11 have to do with climate science? Just curious… You don’t see Pharyngula or RealClimate having posts commemorating 9/11
The only reason I can see for this post is to remind the right wing constituency of the blog what they’re really here for… “””
“”””” 911 reminder – Patriot Day
Posted on September 11, 2010 by Anthony Watts “””””
Well you have me baffled GM; that is the Title at the heading of this thread; just how did YOU devise a “Climate Science” connection ?
Just what the hell does “Climate Science” have to do with “Patriot Day” or 9/11 ? I just don’t get your drift here.
PS: I don’t have an iphone or an ipod, ipad, iped, ipid, ipud either or a cell phone or raspberry . So whatever that donnybrook in east congo was, I didn’t have anything to do with that.
Thank Goodness I Live in a Free Country
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/cooper1.html