Most of us just ignore Joe Romm. Because, well, even the fresh prince of Wikipedia, William Connolley, described him once as “foaming”. When members of his shared climate viewpoint say this, you know some days Joe’s writing could put out airport fires.
However, Thomas Fuller of the San Franscisco Examiner takes on Romm’s recent claims about climate and malaria, and catches him with some of his old arguments. It’s well worth a read.
UPDATE: Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. joins the fray with Defying Joe Romm
This shows why the British are ‘cold’ on the climate warming.
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/CETswsa.htm
In 1908 a comet struck Siberia creating a massive explosion. It took many years for scientists to reach the site, but when they did the mosquitoes were so thick that they had to live inside mosquito netting 24×7.
Their real bomb is CARBON TRADING. The same old story from the same money counterfeiting people: Those who never worked planning to steal, again, the money earned by hard working people. Where do this will take YOU?
As Thomas Fuller was kind enough to credit me for the original story:
http://www.examiner.com/x-9111-Environmental-Policy-Examiner~y2010m5d21-Global-warming-Michael-Mann-finds-a-new-research-plaything
I think it is worth pointing out the best bit (in my opinion) has been missed!!!!
—————————————————————————————
Everyone has missed out the fabulous quote from the expert malaria scientist concerned :
“Climate change is, in our view, an unwelcome distraction from the main
issues.”
Dr Gething told BBC News.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/science_and_environment/10127989.stm
“A lot of the studies proposing there would be a dramatic increase in a
warmer world have been met with guarded criticism, and often what’s been
said about them surpasses what the actual science indicates.
“So this redresses the balance a bit.”
ALSO:
“I am slightly sceptical of the furore surrounding (malaria and) climate change in the sense that we have to bear in mind there are other factors that are moving much faster than climate change,” he said.
“I don’t doubt climate change is happening, but we have also seen an increase in the coverage of treatment, and in the last 20 years there has been a huge amount of information and education on malaria made available in Africa; and that’s all changed much faster than the climate.”
Of course it finishes with:
“I don’t doubt climate change is happening, but…”
(of course not a single sceptic doubts climate change, the doubt is MAN MADE Climate change) my translation from cautious scientist speak:
“I always thought ‘alarmist’ AGW was rubbish really,but I still cant say it yet less I get labelled a deniar (see New Scientist) and more people get hurt because my funding dries up, so I better hedge what I say a bit…..”
I personally expect to here more of this phrase from scientists/politicians over the next couple of years.
Barry Woods
Everyone seems to have missed the best bit in the story.
ie scientists in other fields,
are NOW NOT AFRAID of critcising the AGW delusion in print!!!
( and reported on the see the bbc!!! link)
I expect to see more of this, ie hurricane experts, sea level, glacier, etc,etc you name it, IPCC have linked agw to it.
————————————————
Actually solar scientists having a go here as well…
It’s the Sun Stupid
Lawrence Solomon – author The Deniars (National Post column)
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/21/its-the-sun-stupid/#ixzz0oyWAEEQ5
“Solar scientists are finally overcoming their fears and going public about the Sun-climate connection
Four years ago, when I first started profiling scientists who were global warming skeptics, I soon learned two things: Solar scientists were overwhelmingly skeptical that humans caused climate change and, overwhelmingly, they were reluctant to go public with their views. Often, they refused to be quoted at all, saying they feared for their funding, or they feared other recriminations from climate scientists in the doomsayer camp. When the skeptics agreed to be quoted at all, they often hedged their statements, to give themselves wiggle room if accused of being a global warming denier. Scant few were outspoken about their skepticism.
No longer.
Read more: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/21/its-the-sun-stupid/#ixzz0oyWAEEQ5
It is not about energy for Joe. It is not about the environment. George Soross pays shills to create turbulence in the markets and make money off carbon taxes and trading. The malaria deal is all hype. None do research. Just google scholaring. In Mann’s case, 1.8 million dollars. A grand work from home scheme.
This is an example of Joe’s abuse of strawman arguments.
Hi Anthony
I don’t know if you are aware of this study of Malaria through the Little Ice Ages?
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol6no1/reiter.htm
As you know the LIA included some notably warm -as well as notably cold- spells and Malaria flourished much more widely than might be imagined.
Do you think Tom Fuller might like a copy. Or Joe Romm?
Tonyb
What’s interesting is that the higher you go in latitude – the more aggressive are the mosquitoes. Nobody denies that that’s where you find the WORST mosquitoes and in the largest swarms. It makes sense because those mosquitoes have the shortest amount of time to find blood and breed and are faced with the toughest of species to attack – the ones with the thickest skins/furs/plumage on animals/birds. Plus, humans at high latitudes wear the most clothing and tend to spend a lot more time sealed up indoors.
Add to all that the fact that in order for human or animal types of malaria to spread, the victims must STAY ALIVE so that other mosquitoes biting an infected animal/person can further vector the disease. As I understand it, the majority of malaria infected people in the tropics do not die – they just hang on, (which is the cause of the poverty problem), get bit by more mosquitoes and spread the disease. Life at high latitudes is just too tough as it is and I surmise that anyone/thing who gets malaria in high latitudes is firstly much more likely to die of it due to the cold conditions and secondly, for people, if they survive they do so indoors. Either way, other mosquitoes have a tougher time getting to the infected victims in order to continue the vector if the infected secondary hosts are unavailable to them.
It is therefore my contention that you do not often find malaria spreading in the high latitudes because:
1. There just ain’t nearly as much life up there to spread it around as compared to the tropics.
2. The life that is there is better physically protected with skin/clothing – or – inside sealed dwellings in the case of humans – as the result of the cold conditions.
3. The disease, which relies on victims staying alive and remaining available for other mosquitoes to bite them and spread the disease, is less likely in cold climates and thwarted by indoor rehabilitation for those who don’t die. That and all within a shorter period of time for mosquitoes to contract and carry the disease.
So IMO it appears that the difference in our behavior, the difference in survivability of the disease and the difference in population density in cold versus warm climates are the key differences that matter concerning the spread of malaria – not the difference in climate itself which does not appear to have much of any impact on the survival of the malaria parasite or the mosquitoes that carry it, (outside of the shorter time they are around to do so).
Igloos and fur coats work almost as well as mosquito netting but DDT is even better. Imagine if only just a portion of the 80 billion dollars wasted on proving global warming had instead been spent on trying to wipe out malaria we might have had been able to skip this conversation.
@OldUnixHead, May 25, 2010 at 2:14 pm
That link was supposed to be the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Röhm
This one is good also:
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2010/05/defying-joe-romm.html
So, the IPCC says that a warmer planet would make the third world richer and healthier but are forcing the rich countries to combat (this non-) problem. So, the IPCC wants to keep the third world poor and sick.
Having Mann buy 1.8 million $$$ worth of mosquito nets for the third world would certainly be cheaper than billions of $$$ they want us to spend.
Friedrich Nietzche, among many other notable things, said the following:
1. Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
2. All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Dennis Nikols has often said: Truth is always sacrificed on alters of ideology and dogma.
Vincent says:
May 25, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Is Joe Romm any relation to Ernst Romm, of stormtrooper infamy?
Ernst Rohm was chief of staff of the SA[the brownshirts], but I believe the only relationship to Joe Romm is the similarity of function they fulfill for their employers i.e. to attack and intimidate anyone who opposes the promoted orthodoxy.
Barry Woods
May 25, 2010 at 1:30 P.M.
Barry, awesome comment and links. Glad to have you on ‘our’ side.
If the SA were around now they would reject Romm. He’ d be too big of an ***hole for that organization. Plus, when you have a funny little lisp like Joe’s got you’ll just never be fully embraced by the others. He would be relegated to Illinois Nazis…
Think that’s Marc Morano behind the wheel dere…mebbe…
Anthony, examiner.com is not http://www.sfexaminer.com/ (the latter is the newspaper’s web site).
If you’re in San Francisco, examiner.com will label itself as related to SF and feature content near there.
stevengoddard says:
May 25, 2010 at 12:53 pm
And that quote from the clip:
“That was the kind of magical explanation [that it was a UFO] you use when you don’t have enough science to understand the physics … involved”
Just could not help but make me think of the same reason for demonising CO2!
tonyb says:
May 25, 2010 at 1:49 pm
The outbreak of Plague in the Little Ice Age was made all the worse by the cold. Once thought that cold would keep the virus at bay, not so fast. The virus (or whatever it was) thrived in the colder climate on the rats, who spread it quite well, and caused the disease to become more potent.
In the case of the Plague, warmer was better.
There’s an imminent need for an intervention: Finding Private Romm.
=========================
@ stevengoddard @ 12:53:
Did they finally prove that was a comet? I thought it was still up in the air?
Oops! An unfortunate choice of words. It is funny though. 🙂
What’s with all the Romm bashing? I think Joe’s basically okay on other topics. Joe is not related to any Third Reich functionaries; he just marches to the beat of a different glockenspiel player.
The last few months have been very stressful for Warmistas as AGW theory enters its death spiral. A little additional spittle spewing is to be expected.
Tonyb:
A fascinating link to the history of malaria in Europe. Perhaps the best known modern European malaria eradication program would be Mussolini’s drainage of the Pontine Marshes outside Rome, which were notorious as a locus for malaria and other nasties. Fighting during WWII caused widespread destruction of the elaborate drainage systems and a resurgence of malaria though this has been long rectified.
As for malaria in the Balkans, recall the poet Byron’s death in Missolonghi in Greece – he had gone there to fight in the Greek War of Independence against the Turks but died an unromantic death in a what was literally a marshy backwater.
It also bears remembering that high latitudes equal very long and hot summer days. These are also relatively undeveloped areas with poor infrastructure, poor drainage, and the like – ideal breeding territory for our little friend Anopheles and his ilk.
“Most of us just ignore Joe Romm. Because, well, even the fresh prince of Wikipedia, William Connolley, described him once as “foaming”.”
Well put.
Anyone who has studied American or Modern European history knows that this is one of the strangest assertions of the Warmists. Mosquitoes are more common than fleas in northern areas. Malaria was common in America and Mexico until recently. Hitlers armies were crippled by malaria in the year zero.
Oops. Ceasars armies.
Re, The Tunguska explosion, there has been two major problems for its explanation.
Zero meteorite material has been found,and, visual eye witness accounts have it coming at at a very low trajectory, and changing course 90 degrees. Strange behaviour
for a wayward meteor ?
I don’t know what Romm’s site address is.
Perhaps you could put a link to it under: “Tools”
@ Enneagram says: May 25, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Their real bomb is CARBON TRADING. The same old story from the same money counterfeiting people: Those who never worked planning to steal, again, the money earned by hard working people. Where do this will take YOU?”
Wasn’t Joe Romm involved with Enron at some point? I remember reading something about that somewhere but I can’t remember where. I don’t think he worked for them, but he was in close contact with many who did.
“Even if trends in temperature are very small, organisms can amplify such small changes and that could cause an increase in parasite transmission,” Chaves said.”
Great. Even insects exhibit positive forcing.
Chris 1958
Yes its strange to think how close malaria is to us in terms of time and distance and to reflect on the measures taken to defeat it, and the people- such as Byron- who succumbed to the conditions that bred the disease.
tonyb
Mike M says:
May 25, 2010 at 1:52 pm
It is therefore my contention that you do not often find malaria spreading in the high latitudes because:
1. There just ain’t nearly as much life up there to spread it around as compared to the tropics.
2. The life that is there is better physically protected with skin/clothing – or – inside sealed dwellings in the case of humans – as the result of the cold conditions.
3. The disease, which relies on victims staying alive and remaining available for other mosquitoes to bite them and spread the disease, is less likely in cold climates and thwarted by indoor rehabilitation for those who don’t die. That and all within a shorter period of time for mosquitoes to contract and carry the disease.
I understand it that the main difference between northern latitudes, and the tropics in terms of malaria, is that we bring our cattle in to protect them from the weather.
From that rather innocuous change, the mosquitos then have a choice of trying to get into a sealed house to get to maybe a half-dozen people who are armed with fly swatters, or they can go to a enclosed, but not sealed barn to suck the blood of several dozen cattle who are just standing there waiting.
Once the mosquitos choose the cattle, the malaria parasite dies off quite quickly. It is adapted to humans, and getting stuck into cattle breaks its life-cycle.
wayne Job says:
May 26, 2010 at 5:55 am
Re, The Tunguska explosion, there has been two major problems for its explanation.
Zero meteorite material has been found,and, visual eye witness accounts have it coming at at a very low trajectory, and changing course 90 degrees. Strange behaviour
for a wayward meteor ?
Tunguska was a comet (i.e. a dusty snowball) and not a meteorite. Independently, the Americans (using sophisticated numerical analysis) and the Russians (using a firework on a string) managed to duplicate its charactaristic “butterfly” pattern on the trees in the area. It transpires it has to come in on a shallow angle before exploding several miles up.
There would have been no eyewitnesses to it coming in, as it was moving too fast. The explosion would have been visible for many miles around – but it’s all over at that point.
I prefer to use one of these. So you see, if we allowed the poor nations to get richer, then they could use these too.
http://www.homedepot.ca/catalog/pest-control/172372?s_kwcid=TC|3663|insect%20zapper||S||4896779777&gclid=CO6E9vfz8KECFRRUgwodW31omw
“Mike M says: It is therefore my contention that you do not often find malaria spreading in the high latitudes because:”
A nice set of theories that break their teeth on the unfortunate facts of history…
One of (if not the…) largest malaria outbreaks ever was in Siberia.
In California in the cold mountains, the ’49ers were trying their darnedest to dig out gold. Unfortunately, Malaria was killing a load of them. The native mosquito being quite adept at both carrying the parasite AND living up to 6000 ft elevation in the mountains (where snow level in winter is typically about 2000 ft)…
What got rid of malaria was simple public health measures. ( I grew up in malaria country and we were taught this in school. And yes, there are occasional cases in “my home turf” including a couple from near the Feather River and near Marysville).
1) Drain any standing water.
2) Spray the blood suckers.
3) Put screens on the windows.
4) Use mosquito repellant.
5) Plant mosquito fish in any water not drained.
6) If anyone DOES come down with malaria, treat very aggressively.
7) Apply Gin and Tonic liberally.
(Well, really, I added #7, but it does help… tonic has quinine in it, though it takes quite a few 😉 most folks just take pills if in active malaria locations. Spraying most likely did more than just about anything else.)
Same thing was done to control yellow fever during the building of the Panama Canal. It’s not the location, it’s the effective public health measures. Period.
[snip]
REPLY: I wasn’t aware of the issue of history as I hadn’t followed comments on this thread, but in retrospect I agree, the discussion is inappropriate. – deleted. -A
Rotary International are very involved in the global fight to eradicate both Malaria and Polio. Anyone involved with the RI Malaria project at any time can tell you that Malaria is contracted by populations suffering from extreme poverty and ignorance and that simple and inexpensive countermeasures will prevent the spread of the disease and rid these communities of it. The spread of Malaria has nothing whatsoever to do with slight fluctuations in global temperatures.
That so-called ‘scientists’ should promote the absurd notion of AGW furthering the spread of Malaria is nothing short of scandalous and is a prime example of the moral depths these people will plumb when driven by an ideology rather than by science..
“Mike M says: It is therefore my contention that you do not often find malaria spreading in the high latitudes because:”
Ever been to Canada and/or Alaska in June or July, Mike?
Ever read much Kay? My first two sentences:
But you have to recognize that climate does have an affect on the success of malaria. My earlier post was to point out that while climate doesn’t affect the bug itself or the mosquitoes that carry it – climate does affect us and our behavior which then affects the success of the disease. People in the tropics don’t wear much clothing and they sleep in open huts, (including especially – the infected ones). That’s a big advantage for malaria over a place where people are wearing fur coats and living in enclosed spaces.
I don’t disagree with you in general but would add that while poverty is not a prerequisite for getting malaria, it mostly certainly guarantees poverty to ignorant masses who are suffering from it. Most malaria victims do not die and that’s because that’s exactly how the disease flourishes. That is also the reason malaria areas are so poor – half the workforce is sick in bed with the other half trying to both care for them AND produce everything using third world methods.
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I just stumbled upon a study published in Nature “Climate change and the global malaria recession” –