Extraterrestrial Global Warming

Sorry Triton, I know it’s because I eat cheeseburgers; all those cows.

But, but, but… Solar Irradiation is totally static and never changes except the 11-year teeny tiny bump, the satellites say so, absolutely invariant. Now how can all of these hevenly bodies get warmer when the sun never changes? Believe me, some climatologist will take a grant to explain how and why. 🙁
Just ignore your eyes and common sense and trust their scientific peer-reviewed papers and drink if your that gullible.

In all seriousness, that Apollo data might be very relevant; its timeframe covers the beginning of the claimed AGW upswing. That does make it look like the the causation is solar, with the Martian data as confirmation. Thanks for posting this!
There was an deeper subsurface temp sensor on the Apollo 17 ALSEP, 2.3 meters. according to http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2010/pdf/1353.pdf the same long-term warming was seen as on Apollo 15’s site. However, i can’t find the actual data. I also can’t seem to find how long the Apollo 17 data spanned.
There was a similar experiment in Apollo 16, but it failed due to a broken cable.
The siting was well away (several hundred feet) from the LEM for Apollo 15 and 17, so I can’t see that having much effect.
There is an 18 year cycle to the Moon’s orbit that is theorized to be one explanation, but if the Apollo 17 data covers a different timeslice, it should be possible to see if its temp rise profile matches what the 18 year cycle would theoretically produce.

It truly is worse than we thought. LOL!!

OT – ‘grey literature’ is all okay to use in support of man-made global warming! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/7725266/Climate-body-chief-defends-use-of-grey-literature.html

There is a faulty logic in presenting this info. Just because planet xyz has an increasing temperature, which is clearly not caused by human activities, does not mean that human activities do not cause temperature rises on planet Earth.
The extraterrestial info is a bit irrelevent since we alread know from the paleo record that the temperature of planet Earth can change without human influences. But that also suffers, because just because it did change without humans, does not mean that humans can’t change it.
It clear however, that there is very little, if any, evidence that humans have actually caused any detectable change to the climate. Yes, there are changes that have occurred coincidentally with the existence of industrialisation, but those changes cannot be attributed to industrialisation as opposed to “natural, internal forcings/fluctiations of a dynamic chaotic system” which would have occurred anyway.

It’s gotta be something other than the sun:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/sidc-ssn/from:1971/to:1975
Sunspot number was going down over that short period, so solar irradiance was probably declining, too. And remember that the moon has no atmosphere, or next to none, so the amount of radiation it receives pretty much determines the temperature.

OMG!
Proof Positive that it is all ‘our’ (= your) fault!
Global Warming via man’s polluting activities …. has causes such an increase in outgoing radiation that it is heating up the Moon ! And Heaven Knows what you have done to Jupiter, Mars, etc. with your mucky habits! Maybe even the Sun is affected!
Subtext; We ( aka You) are really really bad; Look! you have polluted the whole solar system! Wait ’til God gets home and finds out what you have done! Severe Punishment is in order; even death may not be sufficient!
PS; Shame Greenies don’t actually believe in God, or they would have a more benign safety valve for their misanthropism.

A.G.W What.A.Joke.

Apparently Uranus cooled between 1983 and 1998, at a time when the earth was warming up.
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~layoung/eprint/ur149/Young2001Uranus.pdf
How could this be?
Amazing that we don’t yet know enough about Earth’s climate with all the data we have, but we can make positive announcements about climate change on planets and moons from scraps of information….
It would be great to see planetary climatic time series matched up with the solar cycle. Unfortunately, the extraterrestrial climate changes have been observed over very short periods, intermittently, and in some cases (like Mars) from only a fraction of the planet area. Still, it would at least approach something substantial to see if the extraterrestrial warming/cooling has been in sync (and whether or not it was actually global). A little bit of googling shows that the studies behind these generalised climate conclusions tend to emphasise internal climate dynamics rather than solar influence – which is not too surprising for celestial bodies further out than our own.

Interesting period for the sun with huge solar flares and two huge sunspots.
Since the moon is not as protected as the planet, any flare coming close would increase temperatures.
Too bad we do not have any good representations of temperatures outside of our atmosphere for periods of time to coincide with this planets temps.

Do not any of you read the documents????????
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2010/pdf/1353.pdf
Conclusions: The increase in the length of the
summer day, the summer maximum surface temperature,
and the pre-sunrise surface temperature at the
Apollo 15 site all seem to be consistent with the hypothesis
that the change in solar incident angle associated
with the precession increased the overall heat input to
the lunar regolith. In further testing the hypothesis, it
is imperative that we find the missing 1975 data and
fully restore the data with 7.2-minute intervals.
\harry

@Barry
– One quick thing with regard to Uranus – IIRC unlike all of the other large solar system bodies, it rotates at a sidelong angle relative to the plane of the Solar System. I wonder how this affects its climate relative to other planets?

Orbital Variation! Happens all the time. Nothing to see! Keep moving!

The temperature sensors on the moon would have electronic components which are known to drift in value over time. They would need to be calibrated regularly using mercury thermometers. How often was that done?

It’s raining in Seattle and in Syndey…they must be getting rain from the same storm system…
Of course the sun influences Earth’s climate…as do GCR’s, but they are not the only influence and in no way negate effects by human activities. Also of course, all the other planets in the solar system have their own specifc brand of Milankovitch cycle.
I always find this kind of “Mars is warming” argument to be amusing in a pathetic kind of way…

To Larry Fields,
I believe this probe is not measuring atmospheric temperature, but the temperature at various soil depths. From that they can calculate thermal conductivity and heat capacity assuming radiative heat transfer to and from the surface follows the Stephan-Boltzmann equation for a black body. The increase in temperature could just be the result of the soil compressing thus increasing thermal conductivity.

Next time a warmist talks to me about ‘climate change’ I will send them this post from WUWT and explain that indeed the climate changes on Earth and other planet.
It would be interesting to know what did cause the Moon’s warming between 1971-1975.

barry says:
May 16, 2010 at 4:49 am
“Apparently Uranus cooled between 1983 and 1998, at a time when the earth
was warming up. [snip link – relevant?] How could this be?”
Over that period, Uranus was moving away from the Sun at over 9 million
miles per year.

That “moon” temperature sensor is actually in a sound stage in Arizona where the entire moon landing was faked. Didn’t you know? So the increase is actually the Earth temp increase over the same period. 🙂

Good stuff. Solar and gravitational changes affect our solar system’s planetary surfaces more than CO2 does. That’s a fact. The only thing is you can’t tax the sun or gravity.

kwik,
One quick thing with regard to Uranus – IIRC unlike all of the other large solar system bodies, it rotates at a sidelong angle relative to the plane of the Solar System. I wonder how this affects its climate relative to other planets?
and Sleepalot,
Over that period, Uranus was moving away from the Sun at over 9 million
miles per year.
So for a cooling Uranus we look at properties particular to that planet, but for those that are warming, we ignore specific characteristics and posit a single-source influence?
Of course, neither of you are necessarily buying into that position, but you help illustrate that we need to look a lot harder at details before arriving at conclusions. Pluto, for example, was orbitally heading into its ‘summer’ when climate change was reckoned on that planet. Mars’ warming was not necessarily planet-wide, and the fraction of the surface with ice receding was reckoned to be a result of internal dynamics. As was quoted just above, the paper on the Lunar warming was reckoned to be an artifact of surface characteristics, and not likely solar influence.
And yet some people seem determined to possible extraterrestrial warming on solar activity, in defiance of what the experts observing such phenomena say. Weird, isn’t it?

And more importantly, what would ram pressure have on a climate of a sphere of gas?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_pressure

I blame it all on Daylight Savings Time. They took away an hour from the cool mornings and added an hour to the hot afternoons. This had to have some warming effect when applied to the earth over an extended period. I’m not too sure about the moon and other planets, since I’m not sure if DST also applies to them. Will be applying for a grant for further studies.

For the moon, global, I mean: earthly dimming apparently was the cause.
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/A_Climate_Monitoring_Station_On_The_Moon_999.html

The solar System was designed to last a couple more years. People were designed to never know everything. But it sure looks like we’ve foud all the missing heat the Earth was supposed to have and somehow lost. Who would have thunk it, it’s on the Moon. Bet the Dark Side has been heating up too.

Way too many comments to read through, so forgive me if someone has commented similarly to mine. What crossed my mind is the contention of the solar plasma guys and gals that the Sun is the prime warmer/cooler of all our solar system bodies (I guess that is pretty much obvious on one level) and that even as far out as Pluto the Sun is responsible, so they say, for rising or falling apparent temperatures. Hence, the idea that here on Earth we have a special situation with man made inputs that have or will tilt our planet into such a runaway effect that we’ll turn ourselves more into Venus….etc. Does make you wonder….I vote for the Sun as the main driver, end of all stories. Ice and Warm ages are triggered by the sun, not possibly by us. Not now and not ever.

Obviously, we need a moon tax to go along with the carbon tax. Better have Saturn and Mars taxes too, and since humans are apparently effecting the sun we better have a sun tax. Then we can declare ‘War on the Solar System.’

fred houpt says: (May 17, 2010 at 10:58 am)
“I vote for the Sun as the main driver, end of all stories. Ice and Warm ages are triggered by the sun …”
The Sun doesn’t change enough to trigger glacial and interglacial periods. What does change is the the amount of energy received by the Earth due to conditions of the Earth including orbital changes, changes in obliquity, precession, cloud cover and maybe a some stuff in space we haven’t figured out yet. Throughout it all, the Sun remains pretty stable.
…”not possibly by us. Not now and not ever.”
Ditto on that.

“Leif Svalgaard says:
May 16, 2010 at 7:57 am
The record is only four years long so could be anything.
“Weather is not climate”.
———————————————————————————
Been seeing this understandable comment coming up for months on blogs. Time to nail it to the wall.? Suggestion:
In respect of the period in which we have measuring devices:
“Climate” is the sum from time 1 to n of “Weather” at points 1 to x.
“Weather” is defined as measurement at a certain place and time of values of temperature , pressure, etc. “Weather” is physical observation and “real” .
“Climate” is defined as condensed and processed data and has no objective physical existence, it is a mental abstraction. Without weather data, there is no climate data.
To discuss in the same framework, first agree on n, the length of time, and x, the number of places/geographic area. Then define the condensation of data. (And dont invent data for points when the data doesnt exist!.)
On the other hand we could just continue to make the assertion that climate is not weather.

Here’s some terrestrial “global warming”:
Gettin’ rich off of “global warming”:
“How green is Al Gore’s $9 million Montecito oceanfront villa?”
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/05/how-green-is-al-gores-9-million-montecito-ocean-front-villa/1

This article is from the space special interest group of the high IQ society Mensa.
Global Warming on Mars and Climate Change from Space
Mars Global Surveyor studied the surface of Mars from 1999 to 2006, four Martian years, this coincided with a five and a half year rise in solar activity reaching the Solar Cycle peak in 2002. During a Solar Cycle maximum the Sun irradiates 0.1 percent more energy than at a Solar Cycle minimum, for Mars this means an increase in Global temperature of 0.21 Kelvin in three Martian years. At Perihelion Mars receives 44 percent (6.8 percent for Earth) more radiation than at Aphelion as the orbit of Mars is seven times more eccentric than Earths, a 21 percent eccentricity. Mercury is the only planet to have a more eccentric orbit than Mars. Perihelion occurs during the Southern Summer and ever since the 1830s it has been noted that during warming periods a dark band appears around the periphery of the shrinking polar cap, and with dust storms being more common during this period, this has decreased the Martian Albedo from 0.16 to 0.15 and increased the Martian Global temperature by 0.65 Kelvin. This has also caused more frozen CO2 to melt and turn into gas than usual for three Southern Summers in a row. With 95 percent of the Martian atmosphere made up of CO2 (0.038 percent on Earth) and only 0.03 percent Water vapour (1 percent on Earth). CO2 induced Global Warming is almost an irrelevance for Mars as it is for the Earth, as the CO2 has already absorbed most of the radiation available for absorption. The Warming on Mars raises the average surface temperature by 3 Kelvin to 211 Kelvin from 208 Kelvin. Both Planets can cool much faster than they can warm up, so Mars with almost a 100 percent transparent dry CO2 Atmosphere and without the problems with feedback (other than dust storms) from Water Vapour, Clouds, Oceans or an Atmospheric Mass 2,600 times that of CO2. Then Mars is the perfect example to use to test the theory of CO2 warming on Earth. Mars receives the equivalent of 81.5 percent of the Solar Radiation that the Earth receives. The surface has a 7 millibar CO2 atmosphere (0.39 millibar CO2 atmosphere on Earth). So the equivalent 7 millibar CO2 Atmosphere on Earth would produce a temperature of 3.68 Kelvin. If you deduct the 0.24 Kelvin increase for a doubling of CO2, four times you get 2.72 Kelvin for a 0.4375 millibar Atmosphere. This makes 2.7 Kelvin for a 0.39 millibar Atmosphere. The 2.7 Kelvin includes, 1.2 Kelvin for CO2 absorption only, plus half of the 1.5 Kelvin that CO2 absorption shares with Water vapour. Confirming that the CO2 induced Warming on Earth is about 2 Kelvin, and also four times weaker than on Mars. Confirming the irrelevance of its ability to increase Global temperature much more, even with significant increases in Carbon Dioxide.
Man made CO2 is natural CO2 which has been fossilised for millions of years and does not have the Carbon-14 Isotope. Levels of this Isotope show that 4 percent or 15ppm of the increase in CO2 in over 100 years is due to Man & 85ppm due to Nature, this is also confirmed by the ratio of Carbon-12 to Carbon-13 in the Atmosphere. All evidence in Ice core data and direct measurements point to changes in the temperature causing the changes in CO2 levels as on Mars, this increase being due to the 0.76 Kelvin increase in Global Atmospheric temperature over the last 200 year bounce back from the Little Ice Age. But ice core data shows that this is mainly due to the 800 year lag in the changes in deep ocean CO2 levels after the Medieval Warm Period, the ocean contains 93.5 percent of the Earths CO2. The increase has added only 0.1 Kelvin to the 2 Kelvin that CO2 gives to the Warming of the Earths Surface Temperature. This means that man-made CO2 has only increased the Global temperature by 0.015 Kelvin. The Solar Cycle Amplitude and more importantly the Solar Cycle Length and the Forbush Effect being responsible for the further 0.66 Kelvin increase.
The largest effect on Climate Change is the Length of the Solar Cycle, short Solar Cycles cause a warming and long Solar Cycles cause a cooling. Between 1913 and 1996, only one of eight Solar Cycles was longer than the mean Solar Cycle length of 11.04 years. The last of these was the shortest Solar Cycle for more than 200 years. Short Solar Cycles cause a decrease in cosmic rays when Solar activity is high, decreasing cloud cover and leading to the enhancement of Global Warming on the Earth, a 1 percent decrease in cosmic rays causes a 0.13 Kelvin increase in Global temperature. This is called the Forbush effect and is caused by coronal mass ejections which are ten times more common during Solar maximum and have a ten day period that can be predicted four days before the event. This is carried by the solar wind to the Earth on the Suns magnetic field lines.
A study of Luna Earthshine shows that the Albedo of the Earth decreased from 0.32 in 1985 to 0.29 in 1997 showing a 6.5 percent decrease in cloud cover. The Earths Albedo has since increased to 0.31 showing that 69 percent of solar energy is absorbed, 50 percent by the Surface, 19 percent by the Atmosphere (13.3 percent by Water Vapour, 1.6 percent by Carbon Dioxide and 4.1 percent by Dust, Ozone, Nitrous-Oxide, Methane and other gases). In the last hundred years the Earths Albedo has been as high as 0.44 and as low as 0.29 with an average of 0.36. The Albedo effects the North more than the South because the land snow zone for the south is mainly in the sea.
Weather from the Sun was first postulated two hundred years ago when William Herschel tried to prove the price of grain was inversely correlated with the sunspot number, which was subsequently proven, the sunspot number being low during the Dalton Minimum (1790-1820) at the end of the Little Ice Age. The sunspot number was close to zero during the earlier Maunder Minimum (1645-1715) during the coldest part of the Little Ice Age, this is also confirmed by tree rings formed at sunspot minimum which have a higher amount of carbon-14 due to the Forbush Effect.
The enhancing effects of the Albedo changes on the Earth and Mars would more than explain Global Warming on both Planets and would explain why the cause of Global Warming on other Planets is not that definite other than the finding that the changes in the brightness of Neptune correlate with the changes in the Earths Global Surface Temperature.
When the Earths temperature increased, the Atmospheric Water Vapour content increased, but if this increase had been due to CO2 then the Tropospheric temperature would have increased at twice the rate of the Surface temperature increase. This did not happen. Over half of all Solar radiation is absorbed by the Earths Oceans which are almost 300 times the mass of the Earths Atmosphere. This helps to regulate the effects of the changes in the Earths climate which then responds to these changes after a five year lag. Global Warming peaked in 1998 and ended with the last Solar Cycle peak, and after a five year lag in the Climate. Global Warming finally ended in 2007. As did the increase in Atmospheric Methane. So it seems quite clear that Climate Change is ruled by the Sun.
There are also long-term future causes of Climate Change in Astronomy. The inclination of Mars varies between 35 degrees and 14 degrees over a period of 50,000 years while that of the Earth only varies between 22.1 degrees and 24.1 degrees over a period of 41,000 years, both planets are at the half way point, Mars at 25.19 degrees and the Earth at 23.44 degrees. This cycle and other changes in planetary axis and orbit produce Ice ages every 100,000 years, in periods when more ice is exposed to the Sun heightening the Albedo, which causes the cooling. The Galactic Orbit of the Solar System every 240 million years produces Ice Age Epochs every 120 million years which are caused by the Sun passing through the Galactic spiral arms increasing the level of cosmic rays and therefore cloudiness, we are at present in an ice age epoch caused by our presence in the Orion armlet.
But the Final Global Warming Terror will be when the Sun turns into a Red Giant. In one billion years time the Oceans will be boiling and in five billion years time the Earth will be eaten up by the Sun, leaving Mars as the most inner Planet of the Solar System.
The information above comes from many sources such as The Guinness Book of Astronomy Facts and Feats by Sir Patrick Moore, Encyclopaedia Britannica but mainly from Scientific papers found on Google Scholar.