Graham withdraws support for climate legislation
By Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, April 25, 2010; A03
The effort to enact comprehensive climate and energy legislation this year suffered a critical blow Saturday when Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.), the key Republican proponent of the bill, withdrew his support because of what he said was a “cynical political” decision by Democrats to advance immigration legislation first.
The move forced the other two authors of the climate and energy bill, Sens. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) and Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.), to cancel a much-anticipated news conference planned for Monday at which they were to unveil the plan they negotiated with Graham.
Graham, who spent weeks working with Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) on an immigration measure that will appeal to both parties, wrote in an open letter Saturday to leaders of the climate effort, “Moving forward on immigration — in this hurried, panicked manner — is nothing more than a cynical political ploy.”
Late last week, Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) raised the idea of bringing up immigration legislation before an energy bill, and President Obama on Friday criticized Arizona’s tough new immigration law and said Congress must act on immigration or risk leaving the door open to “irresponsibility by others.”
In an interview, Graham said he has become convinced that Democrats have decided to push for an immigration overhaul in an effort to mobilize Hispanic voters, a key political bloc, and that only a focused effort on a climate and energy bill could ensure its passage.
Democrats denied that election-related considerations were driving the focus on immigration, and the White House, Reid, and Kerry and Lieberman said they would continue to press ahead with the climate and energy effort.
Even so, Graham’s departure greatly undermines Democrats’ prospects of picking up the handful of Republican votes needed for passage. “If Senator Graham leaves the effort, a long shot becomes a no-shot,” said Joe Stanko, who heads up government relations for the law firm Hunton & Williams and represents several industries that would face new federal regulation under a climate bill.
more here at WaPo
==============
Joe Romm must be having a conniption fit about right now.
Graham is a democrat in republican clothing.
He is reviled in the upstate portion of South Carolina.
For those “not from around here”, South Carolina has three areas of the state, the low country which are the coastal counties, the midlands which as the name implies is the middle area of the state, and the upstate which are those counties which are close to the mountains and the NC and Georgia borders.
He has been censured by at least 4 county party organizations for his actions.
Today he would not be re-elected, but unfortunately, he doesn’t have to stand until 4 years from now. He is basically an untrustworthy lawyer. Hopefully, we can get rid of him at that time. His counterpart in congress, Bob Inglis will lose his re-election bid because he declared himself a hot earther and that doesn’t sit well with the local population of the 4th district of SC.
Looks like Graham is right, for the wrong reasons. Much like the warmenistas are wrong, for the ‘right’ reasons.
Unfortunately, Senator Graham’s concern for “moving forward — in this hurried, panicked manner” does not extend to climate-related legislation. He is still mesmerized by the AGW narrative, and will continue to move forward in a hurried, panicked manner to vastly expand government powers under the guise of “stopping Anthropogenic Global Warming.” Whatever your take on illegal immigration, it is at least a fact rather than a theory.
All Tax/Cap delays greatly appreciated!!
On a related note, according to Chris Horner, there is more bad news for the Obama administration and their push for all things “green”coming Monday:
“You’re going to see the first ethics scandal in the Obama administration. We’ve got our hands on some internal documents revealing a serious conflict of interest at a very high level on these green jobs and stimulus and the policies that Carol Browner was talking about. It isn’t Ms. Browner, but it is someone tied to Al Gore.”
– Chris Horner
http://www.hootervillegazette.com/horner
“Moving forward on immigration — in this hurried, panicked manner — is nothing more than a cynical political ploy.” – Sen. Lindsey O. Graham
Ditto AGW!
That’s very good news but I still have ambivalent feelings about Grahams move!
He is not in any way motivated by the science or better the lack of it and simply plays power politics over the heads of the electorate.
It’s time for a shake up and get some sensible people elected next time.
“A miracle just happened”
Graham heads for the exits. Let’s hope this at least puts this ill-conceived legislation on hold until after the November elections. Working to overturn Arizona’s right to protect itself in the manner of their choosing from drug cartel-related violence will further energize the right.
OT…looks like severe weather in the US thus far in 2010 is at a 10 year low.
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/online/monthly/newm.html
We should deal with immigration first, because the swarm of immigrants into this country could cause it to tip over.
I am unable to understand the voters in South Carolina that vote for this man.
After all it is not a liberal state but Graham always seem to try to be cozy up with the libs similar to John McCain.
It’s well he did this; even if he did it for the wrong reason.
It was a bare-knuckled political ploy that let Graham off the hook.
The Dems were clearly out to buy millions of new votes, something even Lindsay could see was about to place him in compromising shackles.
Says volumes about the “Climate Agenda” based on collective consciousness is neither good for the Earth nor good for America, being driven by ulterior motives.
Just another layer peeled off the onion of shameless Polyscience.
This train in Washington is off the tracks and out of control – period. The worst President in American history in sync with the worst congress and senate equals an environment so unstable that any type of bill can be passed to the determent of our country’s future. This is not my “president” and these are not my “representatives” – I’m sorry, but that’s the way I feel.
Don’t for one minute think that the Climate Bill is off the radar…
As a Canadian I don’t quite understand what this really means. Does this kill it or is just a political move
OT but, my name is Graham, so every time this guy is mentioned it feels like they’re talking about me… I do like the idea that I’ve finally come to my senses. 😀
“Moving forward on
immigrationclimate regulation — in this hurried, panicked manner — is nothing more than a cynical political ploy.”That’s more like it!
There is no evidence that Sen. Graham has “come to his senses.” Sounds like he’s just annoyed that this pet project of his has gotten pushed aside so Obama and the Democrats can try to push amnesty for illegal aliens through first.
/Mr Lynn
Romm is burning.
Sen. Graham’s action was rather predictable. It didn’t take no stinking model to predict it. He had been under heavy pressure to justify his support. He simply could not come up with a better reason than to say that if not this bill then the next bill would be extremely onerous. It’s amazing how those charlatans call this a “climate bill” when it would have NO effect whatsoever on arresting or even stabilizing climate change trends.
“Moving forward on immigration — in this hurried, panicked manner — is nothing more than a cynical political ploy.”
Hmmm….so Sen. Graham finally understands: EVERYTHING this administration does is a cynical political ploy. Everything is about arrogance, power, and containing the unwashed. Mr. Obama himself sums this up nicely in his latest panic / rush-to-pass / cram-down comment on immigration legislation saying Congress must act on immigration or risk leaving the door open to “irresponsibility by others.”
Sounds an awful lot like the group-think that propelled the concept of AGW so far with nothing but anecdotal and fabricated data as support.
Just goes to show what most have said all along – AGW is all about politics, nothing about science & this just hammers it home. I mean come on – if the politicians really thought AGW was a planet-threatening crisis, it would be at the top of the agenda. The reality is that AGW is nothing more than a convenient way for the government to dip their hands deeper into our pockets with an energy tax. Even if you believe AGW is real, the prescribed reductions in CO2 emissions are nothing more than a token gesture.
Graham will resume whooping for Cap and Trade once Obama and Co. bribe him with sufficient porkbarrel money or a nice post-Senate sinecure.
DJ Meredith: “We should deal with immigration first, because the swarm of immigrants into this country could cause it to tip over.”
Agreed.
But hopefully not tip over, as in capsize…like Hank Johnson’s Guam.
Don’t know if y’all were aware of this, but there’s a viral youtube video making the rounds. William Gheen supposedly “outed” Graham. Gheen used the lame excuse that he was “afraid” that “liberals” were using the knowledge to pressure Graham into a more appropriate political stance.
Moderator, I submit that this comment is on topic. Perhaps the “liberals” “prodded” Graham into his AGW stance, and now that he’s been “outed” Graham is losing his fervor?
Why can’t he just say, I just realized it’s all a big lie, to guilt trip taxes from people.
Wouldn’t the truth be best?
Global warming bills should be debated in July or August, like Hansen’s 1988 testimony to Congress with the air conditioning intentionally sabotaged. It is a lot easier to convince people that global warming is real after several months of hot weather during the summer.
2009 wouldn’t have been a good summer for this, because parts of the Midwest (including Chicago) had their coldest summer on record.
I don’t think Graham has come to his senses at all. He supports immigration and tax a cap, so why he should care which order makes no sense at all.
DJ Meredith (07:58:49) :
We should deal with immigration first, because the swarm of immigrants into this country could cause it to tip over.>>
Canada has your back. We’ve moved 90% of our population to within 100 miles of the border. Any sign of tipping due to immigrant swarm from the south, and we’ll just step over the line and hold it down from our end. Not that we like Americans all that much, but we have an obligation to preserve our largest market for oil exports. We just can’t burn all the oil ourselves, and what with the ice creeping down from the north recently (based on the trend of the last 3 years it will have advanced the 49th parallel by 2035) we may need to move anyway. All we ask in return for taking these extraodrinary measures to help the Americans out is that you get Hillary to stop p***ing on our foreign minister every time she comes to visit. Small favour in context of the big picture.
While I am encouraged by Sen. Graham’s change of heart(?) on this bill. I think his move is telling with regard to his ( and most of his colleagues) primary motivation. It comes down to protecting the Party. These guys appear to care only about the effect that the debated legislation will have on their respective political parties. The interests of those who they supposedly represent are relegated to an after thought.
Graham was all in favor of this tax, oops sorry, I mean energy bill until he perceived the threat of a political maneuver by the leader of the rival Party. I guess that the potentially crushing impacts that this tax scheme would have on what remains of the productive segments of our economy was not enough to persuade him. Nor was the fact that the justification for the tax remains an unproven, popular culture fad being pushed by lobbyists for rent seeking corporate interests.
Let’s hope that both of these legislative initiatives end up on the scrap heap. Pray for a do-nothing Congress!
I guess we are no longer the United States of America. The independent state’s rights are being eroded away every year, every new bill signed by Congress. How about the Federal Republic of America – all 57 states could join.
Tom in GA (08:29:17) :
Sounds an awful lot like the group-think that propelled the concept of AGW so far with nothing but anecdotal and fabricated data as support.
Do you mean the Noetic Principle that was blared by the loudspeaker has worn off, and Lindsay finally heard the last crackle of the fried electronics it was built upon?
Brianp (08:18:25) :
“As a Canadian I don’t quite understand what this really means. Does this kill it or is just a political move”.
It’s getting to close to November for Senators to consider controversial legislation. Maybe enough time for one more thing, but not two.
In any case, the whole purpose of ‘Cap and Tax’ was to sent a long term price signal to the markets vis-a-vis coal.
The price of coal has been skyrocketing on the global markets. China became an importer in 2006 and India became an Importer this year. Between the two of them they account for 50% of world coal consumption.
Europe was already a big importer.
There really isn’t a need for cap and tax. The ‘market’ is already sending a pricing signal that the days of cheap coal are coming rapidly to an end.
rbateman:
“Noetic Principle”
Beautifully put.
Yes. Quackery as well.
Graham’s need for approval from Democrats, the MSM, and the elite is disturbing. Reality and knowledge play no part in his decision. There are few people as ignorant of facts as a US Senator.
People focus,
Capn Trade is dead, dead.
So now a lot of bankrupt people need a new crisis.
But the good news they bet a lot money on AGW, they backed it up and it’s zero.
Your call the wind you reap the storm.
Lot of people bankrupt, just not mugs super.
Lot of people wont be around.
A bit naked.
The war is over.
That’s 5 months for trustees to move.
Money is moving.
Carbon trading is like twiggy’s tits, never happened.
Anyone ever seen Twiggy’s tits, all nipple no milk.
PNS is dead, the Industrialists, will not cop bad science.
“DJ Meredith (07:58:49) :
We should deal with immigration first, because the swarm of immigrants into this country could cause it to tip over.”
You mean capsize.
Another initiative the legislature in Arizona is taking is a bill that will require candidates for office to prove they meet the constitutional requirements for the office before they can be put on the ballot. That’s great idea but the horse is already out of that barn.
There were already rumblings that the senate was not going to take up climate legislation in an election year. Seeing corporations take charges against future earnings in the wake of the health care bill was the tip-off. There’s little doubt that immeidately after cap and tax is passed, most corporations will have to take massive charges against future earnings. Why do that in an election year when the EPA is ready and waiting to do the hard work for you.
Since ramming the health card bill down our throats just about guarantied a historic swing in the 2010 election (apparant political suicide), the obvious next step has been to focus on amnesty. Ramming amnesty for illegals down our throats between now and November just about guarantees still another historic swing in the 2012 election.
Taken with the extraordinary crisis this administration is in the process of engineering, these two high gain positive feedback loop swings will leave the whole world in a scary position. Any of you pondering whether or not to have another child, might want to put that one off.
In the end, it will be up to the states to come together and amend the constitution to save us from this mess.
The wording of the amendment needs to go something like this, Any law passed by the congress of the United States that grants citizenship to any alien who did not immigrate in accordance with the laws of the United States at the time of entry shall be null and void. Citizenship and any right to vote granted under any such law is revoked.
Graham didn’t come to his senses, he’s just not getting what HE wants today. Once Graham gets what Graham wants, the rest of us can go to hell. Typical RINO.
I wonder if they got wind of the “scandle” due out on Monday – Icecap is reporting…
“This morning on Global Cooling Radio, Chris Horner, author of the recently released book, Power Grab: How Obama’s Green Policies Will Steal Your Freedom And Bankrupt America, revealed that a major ethics scandal involving someone in the Obama administration will be unveiled on Monday.”
“You’re going to see the first ethics scandal in the Obama administration. We’ve got our hands on some internal documents revealing a serious conflict of interest at a very high level on these green jobs and stimulus and the
policies that Carol Browner was talking about. It isn’t Ms. Browner, but it is someone tied to Al Gore.”
http://www.icecap.us/ link to interview there.
It could have been mighty embarrassing if it broke prior to the Kerry et al press conference.
As an inhabitant of the Upstate of South Carolina, I’m reasonably familiar with Lindsey Graham’s modus operandi. He was our congressman (SC 3rd district) before he got elected to the Senate.
The guy has always been slick and untrustworthy. And over time he’s found that he gets more favorable media attention if he can be cited as a “reasonable” Republican.
But his push for cap and trade has so alienated his base in South Carolina that some other factor would seem to be involved. One speculation I’ve heard is that he expects to become Obama’s next Secretary of Defense when Gates leaves. This is not a crazy idea, as Graham was a lawyer in the military, and Obama doesn’t have an abundance of credible nominees among the Democrats.
Maybe Graham has now learned that Obama won’t make him his next Secretary of Defense?
Or maybe he is just worried that the debate over an immigration bill will take the spotlight off his cap and trade scheme. The immigration debate is sure to become a circus.
It doesn’t matter to me, so long as cap and trade gets put off. Because if the Senate doesn’t pass this turkey before November, it ain’t gonna pass it all, as John Kerry is publicly admitting.
I don’t buy the dopey remarks about Graham being outed as gay. He’s never said anything on the subject, but it’s widely assumed in South Carolina that he is, and this hasn’t hurt his prospects of reelection so far as I can determine.
Tom in GA (09:34:33) :
You name the sales pitch, they have run it.
They have also managed to appear as pesky boiler room sales, a coat they do not wear well at all: Mass Irritant of the Highest Order/Brooklyn Bridge limited time offer.
The MO is always the same: When at first you don’t suceed, dive for cover, resurface later with a new Paint Job.
Some have asked: Where have all the trolls gotten off to?
Answer: They went to DC to lobby, only to find a rain check promissary note.
I have to think that the democrat leaders know the jig is up on “climate change” and can forsee the tidal wave of opposition barreling down on them. This situation looks like a life saver for sen. Graham but many of the other politicians on the climate ship titanic are still busy rearranging the deck chairs.
I’m currently something like a disenfranchised Pennsylvania voter, since I had voted straight Republican then lost the Republican Senator I had voted in (Specter). This lookalike replacement Democrat is having fun, primary season just started and already he has out negative attack ads against the other Democrat, who has not responded in kind. With things looking this tough for re-election, seems that’s one vote for cap-and-trade in the Senate that is far from certain.
———————
DJ Meredith (07:58:49) :
We should deal with immigration first, because the swarm of immigrants into this country could cause it to tip over.
California has listed heavily to port and is about to capsize, thus it seems the danger is very real.
He’ll be back.
I’m not sure this is good news. The EPA already has made their finding that excess CO2 in the environment endangers health and welfare. If nothing comes out of the legislature the U. S. is stuck with the rules made within the agencies.
There won’t be a single Repubican vote for any AGW related bills.
Graham won’t be back on board the Al Gore express.
And as this election years rolls forward to November and more of the AGW fraud and insanity surfaces it will be Democrats who will be
attempting to hide their support.
Brianp (08:18:25) :
As a Canadian I don’t quite understand what this really means. Does this kill it or is just a political move
As a Canadian, you should be quite familiar with political moves 🙂
Seriously, yes it is a nakedly political move as the Dems are seeking around for a way to avoid anihilation in the mid-terms in November. I don’t see how they can create 10 million new Dem voters, by amnesty for illegal immigrants, in time.
But, it is still good news. One might say they are “Doing it right on the wrong side of town” 🙂
If Washington, DC, is comatose, Arizona has the right idea to act on their illegal immigration problem but they’re playing into the hands of the Democrats. The cynic in me understands why Obama and the Democrats are tackling the immigration issue. They need votes to overcome the potential loss of seats in the House and Senate and they hope to counter the loss with new Hispanic voters.
Cap and Trade Treason (No body can say it better than Alan Caruba)
http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2010/04/cap-and-trade-treason.html
*sigh* this has nothing to do with global warming, but everything to do with politics!
The Democrats needed to make up for their losses to independents & moderate Republicans, so the move to immigration makes sense as it stokes up their base of Hispanic voters.
Brilliant, actually, as energy/cap & trade had no chance of passing the Senate due to coal-state, mining union Democratic opposition. After the blown-out oil well in the Gulf, you can kiss “drill, baby, drill” good-bye from this administration.
Don’t worry, the Obama administration has always held the EPA’s Endangerment Finding in their back pocket. That’s how they’ll pull it off, through direct regulation of carbon dioxide. Watch for it.
I live in a heavily Republican region. Nevertheless, I have written my Republican Congressmen to withdraw support for Lindsey Graham, John McCain, and other RINOs in the party. Even though they are not my Congressmen, mine do have a say in the party. I would urge all of you who can to do the same. I would hasten to add that I do respect John McCain and his service to our country, but it is time for him to retire. He espouses too many liberal-oriented ideas for my taste.
Sorry to tell you this but President Obama isn’t waiting for Cap N Trade. He is already doing whatever he wants through the EPA.
Weather Constitutional procedures are followed before he acts on his program doesn’t matter to him. It seems the Constitution is part of the ‘mess’ he talks about that has to get out of his way.
http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-dont-want-the-folks-who-created-the-mess-to-do-a-lot-of-talking/
Let’s just hope that the nuclear initiative doesn’t die with this. That’s something actually useful.
The dirty little secret is, the Republicans want illegal immigrants for cheep labor and the Democrats want them for their votes. I heard that on Fox news last night.
They are pushing the VAT tax hard now in place of the carbon tax. I just thank God for the complete and total economic collapse that is coming. It’s the only thing that will make the bad people stop doing what they are doing to us.
Darn, I was hoping an energy bill would turn the last few stragglers short of making an utter and record breaking rout of the control, tax, and redistribute Democrats this November.
I don’t understand how this immigration bill is possibly going to please all factions. As usual with the Reid/Pelosi/Obama triumverate they’ll see it as yet another control, tax, and redistribute opportunity which will still end up costing the American taxpayers a boodle for it and lord only knows how many new federal bearucrats will have to be hired to oversee the program. It’ll almost certainly cause more political damage than good to the Democrats. They just can’t help themselves in that regard. Probably not as much damage as a climate bill would do though.
If states with an undocumented worker problem would just take a page from Texas they wouldn’t have problems. California is the biggest complainer and most of us probably know how badly that state has been managed lately. Illegals are the designated scapegoats there but it’s really not the brown peoples’ fault. It’s the blue peoples’ fault. And by blue I mean the social and fiscal liberal majority there who make it a blue state like New York as opposed to a red state like Texas.
What the feds will do is make all the rest of us pay for California’s mistakes and to add insult to injury the federal government will only make the problem worse not better. They just can’t seem to help themselves in that regard either.
Michael (11:13:28) :
“The dirty little secret is, the Republicans want illegal immigrants for cheep labor…”
I’ve heard this quite a bit, but it doesn’t make sense [and IANAR].
If I owned a business that used legal labor, I would call ICE if a competitor was using illegals to underbid my business.
And big business is so regulated that they dare not use illegals, aside from the fact that with lots of employees around, someone would be sure to call immigration if they suspected an employee was illegal. I worked at a large company, and they used the Pilot Program to check every applicant’s status prior to hiring.
It does make sense that the Democrats [IANAD either] want the flood of illegals to continue unabated, as the widespread vote fraud by ACORN provides the winning margin in many elections.
You are right about the VAT. In almost every country it has been established [Canada being the lone exception], it has been subsequently raised, in many cases to double or triple the starting rate. It’s easy to say, “We can help this or that group by raising the VAT only 1%.”
What people don’t realize is that a VAT is a tax at every step of production, which will dramatically raise the price of everything, while wages stay more or less the same. So get ready for a greatly diminished life style, and lots less spending money.
I have only briefly scanned the comments of this article, so if someone else has already stated this, then just treat this as a “ditto”…
I strongly disagree with the headline. Graham’s actions had absolutely nothing to do with him coming to his senses…this is just another political play on his part to try and garner some favor from the power brokers, or to gain a little free press. It’s not like he said “Hey…you know?…I’ve been taking a look at all this AGW information, and I think the science supports an entirely different conclusion!, so I’m withdrawing my support until we figure this out!”.
Instead, he said “Oh yeah?…you think you can do that?…well then take THIS!”
Headline should be changed to “Although his actions have nothing to do with challenging the premise, Graham withdraws his support from the bill due to a partisan reaction.”
JimB
Don’t anybody go tripping over themselves to praise Lindsey Graham for ‘coming to his senses’ – it’s more like ‘Lindsey put his finger into the wind and felt an ill wind blowing’. While I’ll grant that part of his temper snit over having his front of the camera ‘getting something done time is certainly a convenient part of this, it’s probably a bigger factor than any change of heart he’s had over AGW.
Lindsey isn’t playing for anyone but Lindsey here. Crap and Tax was his cup of tea because of the fawning attention he’d receive as being ‘reasonable’ and ‘able to work with’ his colleagues, no matter how odious, wrongheaded, and dangerous the proposal. If he’s not going to get a lot of TV love for it, why bother.
The current administration is in the cat-bird seat, to be sure, holding the gun of EPA regulations, with the hammer cocked back, against everyone’s head, blackmailing the Congress into passing an absolutely horrid measure guaranteed to severely impair the functioning of the US Economy (which many political observers believe is the whole point, screw the planet). But, since public opinion is swinging, and time before November is running out, it’s likely the political calculus is to move on to something that isn’t covered by the regulatory contingency, and ‘they’ find necessary to act upon before they lose the chance (after November) of advancing their agenda, and immigration is one of the larger items still on the ‘to do’ list.
The vampire of crap and tax certainly isn’t dead – and will remain a threat for as long as EPA is free to inflict regulatory chaos upon the nation. Cap and tax will only be finally off the table when the EPA train is derailed, so there’s no longer the false choice cover of ‘better than the alternative’ to make make such a $h*t sammich less revolting.
After legislating the temperature, Congress should legislate wind. I would like to see a 60% reduction in wind where I live.
Using the same GCMs which can control the temperature within one tenth of a degree, Congress should be able to regulate wind speed and direction quite precisely.
CRS , Dr. P.H. – I tried to link to the Holdren power points that you posted a couple of days ago . According to the site , the pdf has been “damaged” and is not available . Did you by any chance copy it to your files ? If so , could you repost it ?
And if the climate is miraculously healed (if you believe it is ill ), then they will repeal the cap and trade tax, won’t they ? Many forms of taxation have been repealed after implementation, haven’t they ?
Cap & Trade is dead.
Grahm is just the newest grave digger.
He’s trying to save his skin.
He may be angling for a SFC appointment.
I would prefer him to be ambassador to east crapola.
Anything to get him out of office and out of the state.
Senator Graham didn’t come to his senses. He is just angry that this administration and his lemmings in Congress are pushing into second place because a state had the audacity to enforce the law. How dare Arizona enforce the law! What gives the right to do that? (take note of the sarcasm.) Senator Graham thought he was important, found out he was just a pawn, and decided to take his ball and go home, so to speak. Senator Graham is just pouting. He did not come to his senses.
CRS, Dr.P.H. (10:50:05) wrote:
“Don’t worry, the Obama administration has always held the EPA’s Endangerment Finding in their back pocket. That’s how they’ll pull it off, through direct regulation of carbon dioxide. Watch for it.”
Like so much from the EPA, this Finding is based on junk science, so I would like to hope that it will be stopped in court.
But in other EPA cases (e.g. the wolf introduction out west) they manage to cherry pick useful idiot judges who overrule real science.
I can’t believe what has happened to the good old USA. Beck is right.
We should never forget Oscar Wildes famous last words- ” Either that wallpaper goes, or I do.”
Graham has not “Come to his Senses.” This is purely political and has nothing to do with any the details of any climate legislation being proposed. It’s just withdrawal of support in order to get what he wants.
Michael (11:13:28) :
I just thank God for the complete and total economic collapse that is coming. It’s the only thing that will make the bad people stop doing what they are doing to us.
I have to admire your optimism. I can’t see even total economic collapse putting a damper on these folks, I suspect it would only lead them to redouble their efforts.
The problem remains what it always has been. People always value freedom and liberty, but they only begin to realize how easily it’s lost when that loss affects them in a very personal way. Meanwhile the tyrannical impulse, which is as much or more a constant of human nature as the the love of freedom, is relentless. It operates 24/7/365, year after year, decade after decade, century after century, millenium after millenium. History is rife with constant reminders of this, but another constant of human nature, the tendency to assume that what is happening in the present moment is unique and exceptional, pretty much guarantees that people won’t notice the eager beavers of tyranny gnawing away at the tree of liberty until they hear the yell of TIMBER!
The founders of this country did their best to design our government and Constitution to protect us from our own tyrannical nature, but even they recognized that the fight against it would be neverending and warned us repeatedly that “the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” Unfortunately, too many assumed that, once the obvious superiority of freedom was demonstrated, tyranny was doomed to inevitable decline. We are living through the rather painful falsification of that assumption.
At this point even if the political will could be generated to oust every last one of our current crop of kleptocrats from office, a highly unlikely prospect, the huge spinning flywheel of bureaucracies and entitlements, which are now our real government, would remain. Even if every member of elected government in the country could be magically replaced with a strict Constitutionalist it would be a daunting task to turn us away from our decline into a socialist distopia. Still, given what has been sacrificed by so many to give us our opportunity to live in freedom, we owe our posterity our own last full measure to try.
Obama is trying to do everything to get Graham’s support. Unfortunately, Obama’s aid told the president that Graham’s first name is Billy Graham, so Barack just had a prayer with a wrong person:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/25/AR2010042501286.html
We in Britain have a General Election in less than two weeks; the politicians are out and about on the hustings (“the stump” I believe it is called in the US) explaining their respective positions on numerous topics.
I went to listen to my Member of Parliament, Andrew Tyrie (Conservative), make his pitch last Thursday in the village where I live. He won my vote (and many, many others) when it was revealed that he was one of only three Members of Parliament who voted AGAINST the vacuous Climate Change Bill which was passed by the other 630+ Memebers without any thought or consideration whatsoever. This lumbered the British with a multi-billion scheme to build huge numbers of windmills in the sea (16th Century technology for a 21st Century problem!) for which we’ve now got to pay over 50 million pounds for repairs before they’ve even turned a blade!
Lone voices like his deserve support from all right-thinking people! He’s got mine.
Thanks for posting this!!!
Here’s the problem, if they don’t pass something (hopefully more intelligent then what’s being proposed), the EPA will be forced to start regulating CO2?
Here’s the EPA language on the “Endangerment Finding”:
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment.html
I just saw John Holdren’s GW speech in Chicago, the administration completely buys into the AGW scenario, quality of data be damned. Here’s his lecture slides, you’ll see that he preaches the standard IPCC lines:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/jph-chicago-04212010.pdf
It’s not a matter of “if,” just “when.” I think they will try to treat GHG substances (CO2, methane etc.) much like the EPA already regulates water pollutants like BOD5, suspended solids etc. They will raise revenues via fines instead of a market mechanism.
(08:18:25) :
As a Canadian I don’t quite understand what this really means. Does this kill it or is just a political move
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It’s a political move. Democrats are very unpopular in America now. Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, and Kerry are all Democrats. Reid is up for re-election in November. He is 17% behind his opponent in the polls (last I saw). Cap N Trade is a mainly Democrat proposal. I think Graham sees how unpopular big spending government has become with the voters. I think (IMO) he is distancing himself from a losing Party and a losing proposition. Or it really could be he was set for Cap N Trade now and and is put off by Washington focusing on illegal immigration instead.
President Obama has already said he doesn’t care if he gets re-elected.
He wants to accomplish certain things and it doesn’t matter to him if he isn’t re-elected as a result of accomplishing those things. So he is already using the EPA to put through his energy program. He isn’t waiting for the rest of Washington to move with him.
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1:19 video of Obama talking about it not mattering to him if he’s re-elected:
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Politics/president-obama-good-term-president/story?id=9657337&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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The odd thing is is if he really was a good President he would win re-election to a second term. In saying it doesn’t matter to him if he is re-elected he is revealing that he himself knows the American people are not going to like what he will do.
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One thing he already doing through the EPA is stopping new coal mines from getting permits to operate.
“EPA Takes on the Coal Industry”
http://www.triplepundit.com/2009/09/epa-takes-on-the-coal-industry/
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He also wants to take away permits from those already in operation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=arb10nwMQmkQ
“The provision, never exercised until now, gives EPA the authority to “prohibit, deny or restrict” the use of any defined area….”
http://www.triplepundit.com/2009/10/shock-and-awe-epa-halts-largest-mountaintop-coal-mine/
“New federal rules to restrict mountaintop mining are likely to hurt coal production and endanger jobs in poor Appalachian communities.”
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/reuters/MTFH22689_2010-04-08_19-17-44_N05178807.htm
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His ultimate goal? For people’s energy bills to “necessarily skyrocket”. See it for yourself:
Smokey (11:21:53) :
You are right about the VAT. In almost every country it has been established [Canada being the lone exception], it has been subsequently raised…
What people don’t realize is that a VAT is a tax at every step of production, which will dramatically raise the price of everything>>
I’m against any new taxes because that is exactly what happens…rather than make the tough decisions and driving efficiency, it is easier to raise the tax “by just a little”. Canada’s VAT however (called the GST) does not raise tax at every step of production. Itz pretty complicated, but the system works by collecting tax at every level, and refunding at every level except the final use level. I think the model they built on was New Zealand’s. Not many people really understand it, but when you dig into the details it actually works. The GST replaced the previous Federal Tax which did exactly what you describe, increase costs at every level and causing each level to essentialy collect tax on already taxed goods, and worse, burdening any exports with the cummulative effects causing them to become uncompetitive as a result. The GST is much hated in Canada because it is a “visible” tax collected at point of purchase while the Federal Tax it replaced was “invisible” at the manufacturing level, and we all know what we can’t see can’t hurt us. Though visible and hated, the GST does not in fact increase taxes at every level and is a huge improvement over what was in place prior.
President Obama wants to bankrupt coal mining and coal powered electricity plants with or without the rest of Washington with him, and with or without the American people with him:
dkkraft (07:53:01) :
“A miracle just happened.”
Don’t place your faith in RINOs.
Since everyone is putting up Cap And Trade videos, I’ll put up mine as well.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0cn2kQ9sQM&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0]
“Michael (11:13:28) :
I just thank God for the complete and total economic collapse that is coming. It’s the only thing that will make the bad people stop doing what they are doing to us.”
Sigh. Those who engineer such collapses end up richer than before, it is the bottom 90% who get killed. This will never end.
Those people in power in Washington are Globalists, including most Republicans. Their mission is to lower living standards for the average American, key word, average, thus transferring wealth to developing countries, in return getting unfettered access to global markets. The AGW fraud and climate bills are all part of the globalists scheme to enforce reduced living standards on the developed world via regulation, under the guise of saving the planet, and this may in turn evolve into a secular religion that will replace or be synthesized with other religions .
It was recognized by the end of the 60’s that America had only 5% of the population and that the real money was to be made globally. At this time the Trilateral Commission was formed to engineer the gradual collapse of the US productive economy (consumer manufacturing), in effect the deindustrialization of America.
This type of economy (non-industrial) relies on fictitous capital created by debt. Each dollar in debt by an individual or government is a dollar created, and inflates GDP, thus disguising the reality as to the state of our economy (CPI is massaged to make inflation seem insignificant). It is a great money making ponzi scheme, but requires booms and busts so that those making the loans can profit by foreclosure (or in case of foreign markets unfettered access to markets and resources).
Carbon credits and carbon trading will be a similar ponzi making scheme where carbon credits are no different than dollar credits, just another currecy, call it a carbon dollar.
Eventually, the carbon dollar will replace the USD as the worlds reserve currency, leaving the US w/o the ability to finance it’s trade deficists except via loans from the IMF or similar agency that will be sit up as a global central bank that issues carbon credits.
Ultimately, nationalism and sovereignty will be a thing of the past, and elites from the US, Europe and Asia will have in place a regulatory structure for global governance, where rights are replaced by permissions, and freedoms are granted if convenient, and can be withdrawn at any time, and those with the power are not accountable to the people. The EU is a working model to be applied on a global scale.
Meanwhile, living standards throughout much of the world, especially in Asia and Eastern Europe are improving, while declining in the US and Western Europe. Thank you for your sacrifice, more is to come.
There is hope. The banks seem prepared to see reform and know very well the consumers will pay for it. Obama even mentioned it gets passed to consumers.
Cap and trade bill is shovel ready. Now they are eating off their own arm. Goldman sachs was drooling at the chance to lead a carbon credit trading boom and make billions selling short on the way down. Now they are making their Wall Street champion shovel ready.
The hope I see is people getting their eyes opened and facing taxes, rationaing and more unemployment.
Here’s a good write-up that touches upon the important political aspects of Reid’s decision to forego the energy bill, and Graham’s response:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Why-Graham-balked-can-Dems-win-by-losing-on-climate-AND-immigration-92056569.html
Rhoda R (14:45:25) :
dkkraft (07:53:01) :
“A miracle just happened.”
Don’t place your faith in RINOs.
Fair enough…. I am just happy that Cap and Trade has stumbled over another hurdle, giving civilization more time to come to its senses. So I am relieved
for today anyway.
Thus my allusion to a particular comment by a certain RC over at Climate Audit back on Nov 17, 2009 at 5:24 AM. That comment will be familiar to some of the readers at WUWT I think.
davidmhoffer (08:57:57) :
…. All we ask in return for taking these extraodrinary measures to help the Americans out is that you get Hillary to stop p***ing on our foreign minister every time she comes to visit. Small favour in context of the big picture.
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David you have our permission to introduce Hillary to one of those cute cuddly polar bear Mamas up close and personal like. How about having Canadian Maurice Strong do the introductions?
When setting immigration policy, Graham and many others in Washington fail to discuss the Constitution and how it may already apply to “undocumented immigrants”. Article IV, Section 4, describes the duty of the federal government to protect the States from invasion. This has not been followed, so some States are bound to take enforcement actions. There are many millions of invaders who now drain taxpayers and destroy budgets through undue and illegal federal and State largesse. It has to be fixed, and amnesty is not an option.
(As an aside, do you think all the States have retained a republican form of government, also guaranteed in Section 4? Hint: republican means self-governing.)
There are no amendments needed, the laws are clear, all we need to do is follow them.
When the American people and the States speak to enforcing clear provisions of the Constitution, we are labeled as “irresponsible” by the Administration. They set the Constitution aside at their own peril. We are getting angrier and angrier every time they disparage us for standing tall.
Cap and tax is contrary to our law as well, federal power is not meant to extend into controlling all smokestack industry while crippling the American economy. This is the exact opposite of what the spirit of our Constitution is meant to promote, and cannot stand.
“Joe Romm must be having a conniption fit about right now”
Romm said since Graham was a republican this bill was both bi partisan and popular. Romm is blind. He is unable so see that cap and tax is a tax bill, jobs killer and incredibly low in popularity as issues are concerned.
Monday april 26, 2010 will have several setbacks for the leftist assualt on energy.
As far as I am concerned, any legal immigrant in the US should be calling for the Arizona Governor to run for Pres. I know I would vote for her. If you are from Zanga on the continent of Swazie or from Zwipa on the continent of Seiby, you should be a champion of legal immigration.
Bottom line, if you are here illegally, hightail it back over that border. If fellow redheads from Ireland decided to sneak in, I would be first in line to tar and feather their white behind outa town. Mexican-AMERICANS should be willing to do the same to their kin, friends, and foes.
I don’t care what color you are or who you love, if you are an American, glad to have ya. If not, get the hellouta Dodge.
HawkWatcher (18:49:31) :
When setting immigration policy, Graham and many others in Washington fail to discuss the Constitution ….
(As an aside, do you think all the States have retained a republican form of government, also guaranteed in Section 4? Hint: republican means self-governing.)
There are no amendments needed, the laws are clear, all we need to do is follow them….
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Many of the states are already sending warnings to the out of control megalomaniacs in DC. in the form of Tenth Amendment Resolutions. Also there is a revival of state nullification of Federal laws. Real ID got killed by nullification after it was passed at the federal level. NAIS (Animal ID) also has been the subject of nullification laws passed by the states. There are already people organizing to kill the health Care bill in the same way. We may see a reshuffling of people as those who love freedom band together in certain states and leave Lenin’s Useful Idiots to tax themselves out of existence as California is doing.
You might want to check out the Tenth Amendment Center. Severe threats make strange bed fellows and hopefully those on the right, the left and in the center will realize it is the very wealth against the rest of us despite their “lets you and he fight” strategy
http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/about/
“appeal to both parties” ? who wrote this drivel ? Uh. WaPo. ’nuff said.
and to think, all this time I’ve had a sense of 2000 election deja vu, only bigger and badder.
an ill wind is blowing and the leaves are rustling.
but Steve (11:37:00) , careful what you wish for.
Gail Combs
David you have our permission to introduce Hillary to one of those cute cuddly polar bear Mamas up close and personal like. How about having Canadian Maurice Strong do the introductions?>>
I thought about it Gail, but decided I just couldn’t do it to the polar bears, itz not fair to them. I did call Mr. Strong to see what he thought but when he found out the bears had no money to invest he hung up on me. Besides, I got a call from our foreign minister who said I shouldn’t be interfering. He’s going to start a club of p**d on foreign ministers. He’s got Britain, France, Honduras, India, most of Eastern Europe, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE ready to join.
It’s not about capping, and hardly about trading. It’s not about global warming or even regulating CO2. It’s not about immigration, either,
It’s all about rasing taxes.
The US Gummit is broke and living off funny money. The deficit is skyrocketing. The dollar is ready to collapse in an inflationary spiral. The only fix is to raise taxes – double the rates on everybody – tax air – tax babies – tax dogs – you name it, tax, tax, tax is the name of the game.
But the taxpayers are not happy. They are having TEA parties, and reviving a time-honored American tradition of tax revolt. The politicians are between a rock and a revolution. I doubt that the TEA partiers are going to win, however.
The AGW scare started as an Enron-style financial scam. Algore copied Enron by setting up phony carbon markets. That was bad enough, but then the Gummit wanted in on the scam. The Dems need a way to pay for the New American Welfare State, and carbon was (is) just the ticket.
Cap and Trade may be dead, but Tax To The Max is not. We will pony up, one way or another, Graham or no Graham, AGW or no AGW, immigration or no immigration. Taxes are the holy grail. We will fill that cup with our blood, sweat, and tears, one way or another.
Henry chance (18:19:40) :
The hope I see is people getting their eyes opened and facing taxes, rationaing and more unemployment.
Mmmm ya, that’s the American dream!
Dave Wendt (12:36:02) : Wrote
Michael (11:13:28) :
I just thank God for the complete and total economic collapse that is coming. It’s the only thing that will make the bad people stop doing what they are doing to us.
“I have to admire your optimism. I can’t see even total economic collapse putting a damper on these folks, I suspect it would only lead them to redouble their efforts.”
“At this point even if the political will could be generated to oust every last one of our current crop of kleptocrats from office, a highly unlikely prospect, the huge spinning flywheel of bureaucracies and entitlements, which are now our real government, would remain. Even if every member of elected government in the country could be magically replaced with a strict Constitutionalist it would be a daunting task to turn us away from our decline into a socialist dystopia. Still, given what has been sacrificed by so many to give us our opportunity to live in freedom, we owe our posterity our own last full measure to try.”
Let me thank you Dave for this amazing response.
It gives me hope when I see there are good True Americans out there who really get how our Constitutional system of government is supposed to work. Our country could be great again if we just followed the Constitution.
Sorry Gang, Senator Grahamnesty is reversing course….Politico is reporting that the Climate Hacks Regrouping http://is.gd/bHW2N This is not good.
There is a significant US government nuclear industrial and fuel facility in South Carolina that is vunerable to threats (from Obama’s Energy Dept and Obama’s Defense Dept and the EPA), plus general state funding from Obama for other SC govt projects.
By caving in to Obama’s pressure and the media’s constant ten-year pro-AGW-hyped propaganda …
AND by listening to and becoming mesmerized by the seemingly positive sound of vacuum-filled sound-bites from Obama about (A) future nuclear power production, (B) offshore drilling off of South Carolina, and (C) increased “green energy” production that might come to his state – NONE of which are anything more than sounds bites !!! …
This ignoble senator has convinced himself that “HE” is promoting South Carolina jobs by becoming the ONE republican who will push cap-and-tax legislation.
He is a d**m fool for believing the future promises of state money and jobs, and he is NOT listening to anybody but the funding managers under Obama who are promising him (his state) money …. But he (Graham) is NOT listening to reason and science.
Wow, now this is quite the improvement from last year’s record late planting. There are other related articles at this site… a good looking trend. Barring a big volcano eruption(s) happening soon, *crosses fingers* this could be a really excellent year for crops.
http://www.agriculture.com/ag/category.jhtml?categoryid=/templatedata/ag/category/data/agnewscategory-crops.xml
By next week, half of the nation’s corn crop could be planted, estimates Purdue University agricultural economist Chis Hurt, and that could lead the USDA to nudge its first price projection for 2010 down slightly in its May 11 World Agricultural Supply and Demand Estimate. If prospects for the crop stay strong, it also may mean that growers will want to take another look at signing up for the ACRE (Average Crop Revenue Election) program by the June 1 deadline, he said… 4/21/2010, 4:09 PM CDT
The dust is flying: Farmers make record corn planting progress, USDA says…
Now I am especially not a fan of elitist liberals who brag how much more intelligent they are, when its actually the exact opposite. I almost always vote for independents (though intl. bankers run the show)because the more people vote for independents the more campaign money they’ll receive, and the two parties of power have evolved too extremist, to the point that these disastrous jokes of the last several decades are just way too depressing to even find the least bit interesting to me any more.
But it also looks to me like the majority of the whole economy is poised to improve as well.
Holy Foreclosure, Batman, this has to be a ‘complete disaster’ for the neo-conservatives. Rush Limbaugh better get straight off his behind, errr… that boiled buttress that kept him out of military service… and try to do something about this !!! And quick, Hannity – Beck, time to pull the womens’ [snip]ies off and get to wark !!!
“How am I going to get myself out of this mess” ?
No. I think it’s “Dear Lord. Did I leave the iron on?”
And, what’s with all the red ties at the moment?
kate. r. (07:29:59) :
And, what’s with all the red ties at the moment?
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REPLY: Those are standard-issue “red power ties” in the US Senate. Standard uniform in public is dark blue or gray suit w/red power tie.
So Graham; suddenly doesn’t believe in Global Warming (CAGWMMCC) because the democrats want to pass their “Immigration Reform”; AKA; quick, let’s import more Democrats.
If I were to attend any sort of rally on “Immigration reform”, I would carry a banner with the following message:-
Now Hiring; Immediate Openings.
Illegal Status Mandatory.
Lowest Gratuity Rates Around !
What all of these clowns; Democrats; and Republicans don’t seem to grasp is that the important operative word in “illegal immigration” is the word “illegal”.
If you naturalize and grant immediate citizenship to all 20-30 million “illegals” in the USA; you simply put most of them out of a job right away; and create a giant sucking sound at the borders, and ports, and airports; and any other means people can get in here.
If you grant US citizenship to all the illegal sheep shearers from Australia and New Zealand, presently in the USA; they will all get laid off from their jobs, and a new flood of Aussie and Kiwi shearers will start to arrive to fill all those job vacancies, being offered at submarket wages, and sweat shop working conditions; with the local KiwAussie “coyotes” getting their kickbacks from the assisted “undocumented immigrants.”
In hitech; it is the H1B visa program that exploits underpaid immigrants. The visa belongs to the company; not the immigrant; and it is for a specific time to perform a specific task at that company. It is not convertible to any other job even at the same company; nor is it convertible to an immigration visa. You finish the job; and you go home to where you came from; same thing if you get laid off. And if you complain to somebody about your treatment, then you will get laid off and lose your visa status. Student visas work the same way; you finish the courses you came for, and you go home.
Well of course that’s the way it used to work; the laws were established not to provide cheap labor for the USA; but to upgrade the educated level of the country the student is from; which is why they were required to go home.
Not any more; no matter by what means somebody can set foot here; from Scotland or Kazakhstan or wherever; there is some scoundrel willing to work you to the bone; and of course most often someone of your own culture; so he speaks your language. But your key asset is that star on your forehead that says “ILLEGAL”
Once you lose your illegal status; you are of no use to the “coyote” of watever ethnic or cultural stripe since he can no longer exploit you; so you will be replaced by a newly imported person who wears the “illegal” star label.
So American citizens are simply kidding themselves if they think that any kind of immigration reform that rewards illegality, and ignores the employers of illegal workers, is going to stem the tide.
If employers do need skilled immigrant wokers; then get THOSE WORKERS a real green card immigration visa; with a path to citizenship; and get rid of that H1B scam.
The illegal invasion knows no political party boundaries or economic ones either; silicon valley is crammed full of cultural coyotes of every stripe; RW&A to exploit a continuing stream of invasion.
“”” HawkWatcher (18:49:31) :
When setting immigration policy, Graham and many others in Washington fail to discuss the Constitution and how it may already apply to “undocumented immigrants”. Article IV, Section 4, describes the duty of the federal government to protect the States from invasion. This has not been followed, so some States are bound to take enforcement actions. There are many millions of invaders who now drain taxpayers and destroy budgets through undue and illegal federal and State largesse. It has to be fixed, and amnesty is not an option.
(As an aside, do you think all the States have retained a republican form of government, also guaranteed in Section 4? Hint: republican means self-governing.)
There are no amendments needed, the laws are clear, all we need to do is follow them. “””
Well Hwkwatcher you missed the important part of Article IV Section 4.
“The United States, shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government; AND SHALL PROTECT EACH OF THEM AGAINST INVASION…… Emphasis mine.
“Illegal immigrant” are not simply “undocument workers”; they are INVADERS; and they are not undocumented; they can get counterfeited documents to prove anything they want. Fake US citizenship, fake US militrary discharge papers, fake green cards, fake social security cards, fake work permits, fake birth certificates.
II is not just about breaking the law; it is about deliberate Government ignoring of the US Constitution; Article IV, Section 4.
Thanks for the link CRS, Dr.P.H. (13:01:19),
Do you know if the EPA has denied all 10 Petitions for Reconsideration of the Endangerment and Cause or Contribute Findings under Section 202(a) of the Clean Air Act?
If anyone ever needs a list of reasons the finding is flawed, take a look at these Petitions starting with the Peabody summary.
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment/petitions.html
John from CA (16:35:25) :
Thanks for the link CRS, Dr.P.H. (13:01:19),
Do you know if the EPA has denied all 10 Petitions for Reconsideration of the Endangerment and Cause or Contribute Findings under Section 202(a) of the Clean Air Act?
If anyone ever needs a list of reasons the finding is flawed, take a look at these Petitions starting with the Peabody summary.
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment/petitions.html
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REPLY:
You are most welcome, John! In reviewing the petitions, you will see what an uphill climb this administration has vs. its own party. Many of the petitioners represent union-heavy carbon industries in blue (or blue wanna-be) states, so I never expected the Lurch/Lieb/Graham bill to ever amount to much.
It is interesting, as vast sections of US industry are tired of the bickering and want the USA to clarify its position on carbon!! Caterpillar, Exxon etc. have to deal with the EU and others on atmosphere, and they are having a tough time planning for future modifications/mitigation steps without this legislation.
Believe me, many in industry just cannot wait to have a US carbon bill pass! They are ready, set, GO in terms of plans to make some big bucks off of it! GE’s Ecomagination effort is a good example.
Great Reply CRS, Dr.P.H. (17:21:36)
After reading over the Petitions for Reconsideration and in the face of the legal implications, I would be surprised if they denied them.
If they had just dumped CO2 from the equation and extended “Green” to include all the other “Green” energy sources (Fuel Cells, Hydroelectric, Nuclear, etc.) and embraced some of the innovations we’ve already paid for via DOE grants since the late ’70s, most of us would have supported the effort.
Who doesn’t want clean water and air? Especially if it includes high sulfur clean coal technologies using new scrubbers and energy storage.
Sadly, solar and wind are less efficient then the current mess and it would be easier to squeeze water from a stone then to get anything intelligent out of Washington these days.
Its good the Bill is of the table for a while. Though, it would have been interesting to hear the politicians explain themselves when Americans fully understand the across-the-board cost increases associated with the scheme, the lost industry and jobs, and the idea of giving away the Carbon licenses to industries that caused the problems.
The Cap and Trade idea is looney. What’s the point of letting industry buy carbon credits so they can continue to pollute?
Make them pay fines and float a bond drive to lend them the necessary capital. Taxpayers get paid back and we all get clean air and water.
Dr. Roy Spencer will be interviewed tonight (Mon.) on Coast-to-Coast from 10pm to 2am Pacific time.
John from CA (18:55:45) :
Great Reply CRS, Dr.P.H. (17:21:36)
REPLY: You are very welcome, I’ve been in this political business for a long time!!
John, you said “The Cap and Trade idea is looney. What’s the point of letting industry buy carbon credits so they can continue to pollute? Make them pay fines and float a bond drive to lend them the necessary capital. Taxpayers get paid back and we all get clean air and water.”
I think that is exactly the model that the USEPA is considering, and this link gives some validation to that thought:
—–
The Environmental Protection Agency is exploring whether to use the Clean Water Act to control greenhouse gas emissions, which are turning the oceans acidic at a rate that’s alarmed some scientists.
With climate change legislation stalled in Congress, the Clean Water Act would serve as a second front, as the Obama administration has sought to use the Clean Air Act to rein in emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases administratively.
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/04/05/will-the-epa-regulate-carbon-dioxide-using-the-clean-water-act/
——
This is EXACTLY what I was predicting would happen!!
Clean Water Act (CWA) is used to set discharge limits for organic carbon pollution (measured as 5-day biochemical oxygen demand and suspended solids), and the Feds regulate via NPDES permits (National Pollutant Discharge Emission Standards), working in conjunction with state and tribal enforcement.
CWA allows for point-source polluters (sewage plants, industry etc.), non-point sources, and various others such as storm runoff, agricultural runoff etc.
It would be easy for EPA to do this, and avoid the whole market-driven junk completely!! Considering how badly Wall Street has handled things, the Fed may just decide to do this without private involvement. That keeps the Mafia and other privateers at distance.
Cap and trade are merely incentives to assist industry with compliance, but there is nothing magical about the process, and I think the administration is deciding that Wall Street will be an unreliable partner.
Update: Here’s the EPA FAQ:
“Questions and Answers Regarding EPA’s Federal Register Notice on
the Clean Water Act Section 303(d) Program and Ocean Acidification”
http://www.epa.gov/owow/tmdl/oceanfrMarch_2010/pdf/qa_ocean_acid_frn.pdf
“Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle!” This is how they will do it, forget about the Clean Air Act!!
The Obama Administration is doing exactly what I would do, if my intent was to destroy the country from within. They are spending like drunken sailors, racking up debts that can not possibly be repaid.
There is no credible rationale for the current spending. When the sub-prime crisis first hit, it was necessary to infuse the banking system with liquidity to avoid runs on insolvent banks. That happened during the Depression, which is what made the Depression so severe.
The first infusion of cash was necessary to avoid a panic. But Obama has already spent 2 – 3 times more than that in his first year in office. And it is completely unnecessary spending.
Within a few years the chickens will come home to roost. The US Government Accounting Office recently stated that using reasonable assumptions, about 93 cents of out of every every dollar of federal revenue will be spent on the major entitlement programs and net interest costs by 2020. That is only a little over nine (9) years away. We will never get to that point without a major disruption.
And those are only the major entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare, etc., which will suck up 93 cents of every tax dollar. That does not count the enormous new spending that will be required by Obama’s government takeover of the U.S. healthcare system, or by the huge added expense resulting from the much higher interest rates that are certain to occur over the next nine years as a direct result of that deliberate overspending. Obama wasn’t joking when he said he was going to fundamentally transform America.
With 93¢ out of every dollar of revenue spoken for by only a few major entitlement programs, that leaves the remaining 7¢ of every tax dollar to run the government, including funding the military — which is Obama’s main target.
Even doubling the current tax rates will raise insufficient revenue to fund the current and proposed programs. So what will happen?
Let’s look at what is now happening in Greece, which is an example of a country living far beyond its means. Greece will default — unless the EU rescues it, which will mean the rest of the EU taxpayers will be subsidizing Greek profligacy. Spain is not far behind Greece, and if Greece is rescued, Spain will have its hand out, as will all other countries that have consistently overspent.
Therefore, an EU rescue of Greece is unlikely. The fly in the ointment is that the EU, including Greece, uses the Euro as a common currency. They now face a major dilemma, which the Euro may not survive.
Watch what happens to Greece. When the U.S. defaults on its debt obligations, as it must, due to the trillions of new dollars printed and wasted by the Administration, it will be just like Greece, but doubled and squared. Savings will be entirely wiped out for many people, who will then have to depend on government handouts. That is what the people now running the government intend: Never listen to their words. Watch what they are doing.
The government, ravenous for more money to keep the current system going without cutting off its favored special interests, will go after every dollar they can find, while printing more. Our credit will be downgraded from AAA to junk status when foreign countries no longer buy our debt, and interest rates will necessarily rise in order to entice scarce new buyers. The repercussions will be felt world wide. Enjoy low interest rates while you can, they will not stay like this for the next nine years. Lock in long term fixed rate mortgages while the getting is good.
The fact that this is planned is evidenced by the wholly unnecessary printing of multiple $trillions, long after the banking panic has passed. It is not simple greed, which can easily be personally satisfied by the President and Congress, who are in a position to feather their own nests financially. They know, better than most, exactly what they are doing to the country, and they know what the results must be. Their actions are deliberate, and can only be intended to financially destroy the country, and the ultimate goal, to gut our military and turn over our sovereignty to the totally corrupt UN and World Court. Even Stevie Wonder could see this scheme.
When the government sets up a situation where 93% of its total revenue will be eaten up by just the major entitlement programs, not including the government’s recent takeover of private medical care, thus leaving only the remaining 7% to fund the entire federal government, and the military, they know exactly what they are doing and what the ultimate consequences will be. And none dare call it treason.
The approaching government bubble and subsequent crash will make the sub-prime mortgage crisis look like a minor hiccup.
Smokey (04:41:41) :
I agree about the mistakes “Tax and Spend”, opting for large government, and the unfunded debt problem but the monetary policy is to not tighten to early which does make sense. The interest on all this is a big issue but the US government has been the biggest buyer of the debt.
Exactly how this will wash out in the end has yet to be announced but look for the markets to tank a bit when they tighten and start reducing the debt.
Debt Clock: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
The economic issue is innovation – the rest, IMHO, is just window dressing. So as CRS, Dr.P.H. (22:43:58) : points out, the Clean Water Act is a logical approach but they stop steering the solutions to junk like solar and wind until storage is available.
Clean water is a Municipal issue and they are already starting to us Biogas to drive Fuel Cells to make the process more efficient. Water Hammer water heaters/purifiers are another interesting approach.
I hope the DOE surprises us all.
sorry lots of spelling issues – I need more coffee
Reid caves to Graham, will introduce Cap and Trade before immigration!
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/27/reid-caves-to-graham-will-introduce-cap-and-trade-before-immigration/
This confirms the lead that R. de Haan has posted:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/27/AR2010042705335.html
This is a HOT topic right now! The city of Chicago is undergoing no small measure of unrest due to the Arizona legislation, and I’m sure it is also stirring up Hispanic audiences coast to coast.
The Dems better watch out, they may have opened Pandora’s box with this little political feint! I think it will come back to haunt them…
CRS, Dr.P.H. says:
April 27, 2010 at 9:43 pm
Just ran across this article on Baltimore Sun’s site.
EPA turns up climate heat as Senate dithers
APRIL 28, 2010
“With prospects for a Senate climate bill under a cloud, the Obama administration has turned up the heat. The Environmental Protection Agency says in a new report that there is “clear evidence” that human activities are altering the Earth’s atmosphere and that climate is changing.”
“The EPA report lays out 24 “indicators” showing that climate is already shifting, most of them spotting trends in the United States. Greenhouse gas emissions have increased 14 percent in the United States from 1990 to 2008.”
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I read over your prior EPA link and was surprised by some of the numbers.
2010 U.S. Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report
• Landfills accounted for approximately 22 percent of total U.S. anthropogenic methane (CH4) emissions in 2008
• Wastewater treatment accounted for approximately 4 percent U.S. anthropogenic methane (CH4) emissions
• The incineration of waste in the United States in 2008 resulted in 13.1 Tg CO2 Eq. emissions, nearly half of which is attributable to the combustion of plastics.
• Between 1990 and 2008, CH4 emissions from agricultural activities increased by 14.4 percent, while N2O emissions fluctuated from year to year, but overall increased by 7.0 percent.
• Energy-related activities accounted for approximately 37 percent of total U.S. anthropogenic methane (CH4) and 13% of nitrous oxide (N2O) emissions in 2008
Note: Scrubbers and Fuel Cells are highly effective but they are not required in older plants that are “grandfathered” under the new environmental laws. It seems like this is the logical place to devote the initial effort?
CRS, Dr.P.H.,
I guess the bottom line of all this is that the proposed Carbon Tax, Cap & Trade Scheme, and inadequate solutions like “Smart meters” only address symptoms of the problem instead of the root cause.
Decentralizing the power grid is the solution along with the capture of wasted resources like anthropogenic methane and high sulfur coal that yields hydrogen from SO2.
The problem is, Industry can’t make a long term buck on true solutions?
Example:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhJqudT0Lh8&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
Does this reflect the views of the masses. Repulsive bias, penny wise and pound foolish.
read the different consideration:
Frumins ability to review long-standing rules and centuries of precedent to resolve Senate questions makes the mustachioed parliamentarian something of a Washington rock star these days. As much as any elected official, Frumin, 63, holds decisive power over whether the Democrats rewrite of the health care system survives or sinks. “Youre our new celebrity,” Sen.