PRESS RELEASE
Tuesday, April 20th 2010
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Jeff Davis
Washington, DC — Penn State University’s Michael Mann, one of the central figures in the Climategate scandal, has threatened legal action against Minnesotans for Global Warming (M4GW) over the group’s popular satirical YouTube video “Hide the Decline.” The No Cap-and-Trade Coalition, a group that includes M4GW, responded today at an event at the National Press Club, releasing Mann’s threatening letter and an updated version of the “Hide the Decline” video.
“We understand why Michael Mann is eager to silence public discussion of the hockey stick scandal,” said Jeff Davis of No Cap-and-Trade, “but truth is an absolute defense.”
The original “Hide the Decline” video, which had more than 500,000 viewers, was removed today from YouTube by M4GW’s Elmer Beauregard. It received national attention when Rush Limbaugh played it on his radio show and was later featured on CBS Evening News in the wake of the Climategate email scandal. “Hide the Decline” parodied Mann, the Penn State professor who is largely responsible for the creation of the now debunked “hockey stick” graph, which purported to show a dramatic spike in average global temperature during the 20th century after 900 years of relatively constant temperature.
The video spotlighted a phrase from one of the central “Climategate” e-mails in which the University of East Anglia’s Phil Jones explains how he used Mann’s “Nature trick” to “hide the decline” of key temperature data. The hockey stick graph relied on “hiding this decline.”
When asked why he removed the video, Beauregard said “Right now, the last thing I need is a lawsuit. I can barely afford my electric bill.” Beauregard recently converted M4GW’s world headquarters (a recreational vehicle parked in Northern Minnesota) from propane to wood heat. “Mann should be glad to know that we don’t burn fossil fuels anymore — just trees,” said Beauregard.
“M4GW was started to poke fun at Global Warming because I knew it was a joke, it’s hard to believe in Global Warming when you live in a place like Minnesota. During last winter we all wished we had some global warming, hence the name of our group,” said Beauregard. As global warming developed into a political issue, M4GW has tried to educate the public that CO2 is not harmful but part of the natural carbon cycle.
Minnesotans for Global Warming did comply with Mann’s cease and desist demand, taking the “Hide the Decline” video down from their YouTube account and webpage. The No Cap and Trade Coalition unveiled a new video they’re calling “Hide the Decline 2,” however. It was screened at a press conference on April 20th and is available on YouTube and NoCapAndTrade.com.
“If Doctor Mann decides to sue,” said Davis, “we would welcome the opportunity to do legal discovery. I believe he’s hiding more than just ‘the decline.’”
Speaking at the No Cap-and-Trade Coalition press conference was M4GW spokesman “Chicken Little,” a man in a chicken suit who goes to rallies crying “The globe is warming, the globe is warming!”
When asked about the situation, Chicken Little said, “I used to believe in global warming — of course, I used to believe the sky was falling too, but Elmer set me straight.” Chicken Little went on to say, “I think it’s horrible that Elmer had to take down the video. Can’t a person have a little fun on YouTube anymore? Those Global warming guys sure don’t have any sense of humor.”
At the press conference, the No Cap-and-Trade Coalition handed out a historical review of the hide-the-decline controversy entitled, “Michael Mann: Defamed or Defined by Hide-the-Decline?” as well as mini-hockey sticks that read “Mann-Made Global Warming: Why We Should Be Worried About the Intellectual Climate.”
Both versions of the “Hide The Decline” video can be viewed at http://www.nocapandtrade.com/michael-mann-controversy/.
###
Minnesotans for Global Warming (M4GW) uses humor to illustrate the absurdity of anthropogenic global warming fears. Their slogans are “Turn your snow shovels into lawn chairs,” and “Nothing would be green without CO2.” – M4GW.com
The No Cap and Trade Coalition consists of over 40 state and national organizations that are opposed to cap and trade legislation. For more information, see NoCapAndTrade.com
Dear M4GW
I would be delighted to contribute to your legal costs
As usual, the sequel isn’t nearly as good as the original.
Ah, may a high powered attorney take this Pro Bono. Go for it,
Dr. Mann, what can go wrong?…
I’m going to find a copy of that video and send it to everyone I know……….repeatedly.
I wonder if Mann’s health is holding up better than Jones’? I believe this whole brouhaha will only be settled once and for all when the discovery process associated with a major lawsuit grabs ’em and shakes the truth out.
Right, bring it on!
Mann will have to sue more than just M4GW to keep people from “using his imag” here is another funny about the climate stooges.
http://townhall.com/cartoons/cartoonist/MichaelRamirez/2009/12/20
Two words: Robert Maxwell
It’s satire. Wasn’t that supposed to be legal in the U.S.?
If you can’t win the debate on the merits, call in the lawyers for a little legal extortion to silence your critics. Yeah, that should work!
It turns out if you go to the website where the videos are you can indeed donate to their legal costs. Ha, guess that will cost me.
This law suit would be the best possible outcome, unless the AGW gang can cherry pick an ‘appropriate’ judge.
That is what the western wolf introduction gang has been able to do, and that has allowed the most outrageous junk science to prevail there.
I take it that would be, “Bring it on”, in American slang. I doubt if “Professor” Mann has the balls. He has proved himself to be a scientific charleton and a liar.
I recommend everyone read “The Hockey Stick Illusion” by A. Montford, the book records the whole sorry saga of Mann and Steve McIntyre.
I can’t wait for the film portrayal of Mann – something half way between inspector clouseau and Ernst Stavro Blofel.
Why isn’t Mann being sued for fraud ?
Well,
As I remember my Broadcast law course many (too many) years ago, to prove defamation of a “Public Figure”, you have to prove 1. publication 2. malice 3. a “reckless disregard” for the facts.
Publication is a given…OK
Malice – scarcasm is not necessarily malice
Reckless disregard – Well, facts have been disregarded in this case but not necessarily by the defendant.
All that Elmer has to prove is that Michael Mann is a public figure – not a big leap of faith.
The burden of proof is on Mann here – because he has made himself a public figure with his “””””””””research”””””””” findings.
As a radio news reporter I was threatened with a libel suit every time I reported a petty criminal was in the slammer. “You wrote I was arrested. I’m going to sue you for libel!”
“Really? Um, were you arrested for breaking and entering at 3:30 last night?”
“Well, yeah – but you told the world about it!”
“I’ll save you the lawyer fee bud, truth is a defense against libel.”
(At this point in this post, a little man scurries in from the wings, approaches the microphone and, speaking softly and rapidly says:
“This post is not intended as legal council in any way, and competent legal council must be obtained before attempting any legal action.”)
Reckless disregard for the facts – I think the climate has a case against many of the so-called scientists who are peddling man (or Mann) -caused global warming….
Mike
Oh – now i understand. Satire is NOT legal in the U.S. – so The Onion IS a trustworthy news source and these Bangladeshis were right after all:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8237558.stm
wow, this is great! The ‘debate’ has got boring! Assuming that this isn’t just a another beat-up, a court case would have enormous entertainment value. The world loves watching the American legal system in action! Everyone standing up for their constitutional rights and all that stuff it’s the smell of American democracy that we love! Mann has a very boring image and this could really help with that. As long as we don’t get two those two statisticians, Hand and Bloomfield(?) duking it out in court; that would send the case to sleep.
Nice article, any actual reference to Mann’s threat to sue, or is the strawman good enough to burn?
I think Mann’s a public figure now, so it’s harpoon-at-will, isn’t it, when it’s obviously a satirical comedy?
Frosty…
http://www.nocapandtrade.com/images/Mann-Letter.jpg
I hope it is on their CD, although they don’t list it. Does anyone know if its included? I’ll have to buy it, as I was planning to use it in lectures.
Does Meltdown Mann have a chance? I know it takes a few dollars to send a threatening letter to bluff some people. I also remember when James Hansen wanted real thinkers put in jail. The damage here is the end of easy money for research. Tiger (Cheetah ) Woods also lost a boat load of endorsements. Persecution of the church of global warming seems to have arrived.
If Jones and Mann had stepped off the sky high egos and sent some data when requested under the FOIA, I really believe this crisis would have been preempted years ago.
M4GW might want to send the Electronic Frontier Foundation an email. They love cases like this.
Check out their “Blogger’s rights” section.
Send an email with a copy of the letter Mann sent.
http://www.eff.org
The best stratergy I think in these cases is always to go for a win-win solution. I think if Mann does threaten The No Cap-and-Trade Coalition with legal action that they should offer to take down the video in exchange for disclosure of Michael Mann’s raw proxy data and complete methodologies.
IMHO its only a threat to sue, I don’t think that Mann will follow through. The last thing he would want is for the truth to be dragged out thru the legal system.
Any trial would bound to be a first class sensation which even the MSM could not ignore. Does Mann want this? I think not.
I’ll help defend them.
Despite Attacks from Critics, Climate Science Will Prevail by Rajendra K. Pachauri: Yale Environment 360
http://www.e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2264
I just saw this on Tom Nelson’s blog.
It is an empty threat because satire is protected in the US.
Dr. Mann should be embarrassed and his lawyer should be further embarrased for misspelling “cashed.”
It’s interesting that the cease-and-desist letter does not include the usual preface of “WITHOUT PREJUDICE”, and misspells “cached”.
Count me in for a donation. I would LOVE to see Michael Mann in a couple of eight hour depositions answering questions under oath.
There is no way this is anything but an empty threat.
If you would let Mr. Beauregard know that not only would we be willing to chip in for his defense, all it takes is Rush and Glenn mentioning the matter on air for all expenses to be taken care of. They read this site, IIRC.
I’d also donate. Mann is a public figure so he isn’t immuned to satire.
As a first year law student–my third career here, and one I have embarked on because of global warming—I note that the elements of a defamation claim by a public official are 1) that the statements are false and damaging 2) that the statements directly concern the plaintiff 3) that they are made with malice 4) that the statements are published and 4)that the defendants knew and appreciated that the statements were false. I think Michael Mann might have problems proving that the statements made in the video are false. As one commenter has already suggested, bring on the discovery!
Uh, how come the old version is at the new site if the guy can’t afford to fight? I would guess the new version was to avoid that and make the legal target the new guys. . . but if the old one is still up, then the old guy is still at risk, right?
Or did Mann’s lawyer stupidly only demand it come down from youtube, so now they get a little longer until a new legal threat appears re the old one at the new site?
No-one expects the ‘Mann-ish Inquisition’!
(sorry)
FYI – Mann is tenured but that doesn’t mean his salary can’t be effectively frozen. If you feel like telling Penn State what this professor is doing to their reputation and where you’ll be telling relatives, friends, and neighbors where NOT to send their children to school:
The Pennsylvania State University
Department of Meteorology
503 Walker Building
University Park, PA 16802-5013
Email: meteodept@meteo.psu.edu
Telephone: (814) 865-0478
Fax: (814) 865-9429
Douglas DC (15:30:31) : “Ah, may a high powered attorney take this Pro Bono. Go for it, Dr. Mann, what can go wrong?…”
Surely high-powered leftist attorneys also make themselves available on a pro bozo basis?
I like the way the remake articulates the words of the song more clearly.
I hope this sets a trend where clever people do lots of remakes of the original Hide the Decline video. I really like that tune.
I’ll contribute some to the cause!
For some reason, climate scientists seem to have the worst P.R. sense in this whole world.
Baillie, Jones, Mann, Pachauri, Hansen, and on and on, all of them.
I wonder if it’s a requirement for being a climate scientist,
or if people with that disability just migrate toward climate science.
Karl B. … and his lawyer should be further embarrased for misspelling “cashed.”
That has to be a Freudian slip.
The first one is a classic. It is hysterical every time I see it.
The issue about the stick that didn’t get nearly the attention it deserves is:
If this proxy bore no relation to the instrument record, what relationship validated it as a proxy at all?
It appears it was chosen solely because it didn’t suggest a MWP or LIA. But if it doesn’t follow the instrument record, it ISN’T a valid proxy, so who cares WHAT it says?
The image of Mann’s fat face used in the video “Hide the Decline” appears to be copyright University of Pennsylvania.
This really ticks me off. Those two kids at M4GW did nothing wrong. Having fun, exercising freedom of political speech, and trying to make a few honest dollars while they’re at it. I’m proud to call them fellow Americans.
The heck with a legal defense fund. How about starting legal offense fund to give Mann a taste of his own medicine. I’m sure any competent attornety can dream up a host of things that Mann might be sued for. God knows he wronged an awful lot of people.
Mann has never heard of the Streisand effect?
OT: Pachauri says that 2035 was “incorrect”.
He did not give the correct year instead.
If nobody knows a figure, then these glaciers are not melting away.
But if they don’t, why make such non-event a point in an IPCC report?
And, doing so is just “incorrect”? Or what?
Oh, yeah!
If this would go to court, I’d be exercising my given ability to use the “Paypal” donate button, that’s for sure.
Curious (16:36:43) :
I just asked: “Is it possible that we may be informed as to why, when the data regarding the Himalayan Glaciers was discovered to be erroneous, we were not informed? I understand this was several weeks before COP10, and yet this data was portrayed then as valid. ”
but I can pretty much guarantee that very reasonable (IMO) question will never get through.
Um, as a NEWS EVENT, can one not now publish an archived copy of the original? After all, one can not properly evaluate the potential of this NEWS of a threat of suit without the evidence to observe…
FWIW: Long ago there was a legal tussle over the decryption software for DVDs. Suit was brought against the kid that had made the decryption software. The desired outcome was a prohibition on publication of the software and injunctions were issued. As part of the suit, the code was entered into the country records. Which were public as a mater of law. Which were on line. To which I published a link 😉
Never did hear if the DVD industry decided to sue the county court too or not… Decisions decisions…
This just in… Hide the decline……
“Stick it” to Mann. He’s bluffing.
Satirical political commentary still reigns in newsprint and media in every election year, many far worse than the presentation in question. Does this mean that Mann believes that these other presentations are also open to law suits? If that were the case, even Lincoln could have sued for defamation and libel and left his widow with coinage. The satirical comics portraying one of our most important republican presidents were far and away more potentially damaging than the one Mann is complaining about. Come on Mann, weather the storm or stop studying controversial subjects. You sound like a backseat child on this one.
A suggestion. Now that Mann has threatened a lawsuit, an action in declaratory judgment would lie in federal court. Any volunteers? Discovery would be a gas.
has anyone posted this?
19 April: New Scientist: Kate Ravilious: Blame the volcano trouble on sun and global warming
“We predict that the frequency and length of blocking events will increase in a warmer climate,” says Christophe Cassou of the European Centre for Research and Advanced Training in Scientific Computation in Toulouse, France.
Using IPCC simulations of air flow, Cassou and colleague Eric Guilyardi show that global warming will increase summer blocking events over Europe…
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18794-blame-the-volcano-trouble-on-sun-and-global-warming.html
Christophe Cassou was at NCAR:
2003: UCAR Quarterly: Bob Henson: How random is our winter weather?
Only recently has the tropical Atlantic been getting the attention it deserves, says Christophe Cassou, who is completing a two-year visit to NCAR’s Climate and Global Dynamics Division…
Cassou will return this autumn to France’s European Center for Research and Advanced Training in Scientific Computation. He and colleagues at NCAR and CERFACS have been using a tool called cluster analysis to get at the distinct climate modes that predominate across the North Atlantic…
http://www.ucar.edu/communications/quarterly/spring03/winter.html
Eric Guilyardi is also at University of Reading, Department of Meteorology Centre for Global Atmospheric Modelling (CGAM)
http://ncas-cms.nerc.ac.uk/people/custom_person.php?user_ID=1
new scientist writer, Kate Ravilious, has written for the Guardian:
2005: What a way to go: Super-volcano, robotic rebellion or terrorism? Kate Ravilious asks 10 scientists to name the biggest danger to Earth and assesses the chances of it happening
According to Sir Martin Rees, author of Our Final Century, astronomer royal and professor of cosmology and astrophysics at the University of Cambridge, humans only have a 50-50 chance of making it through the 21st century without serious setback. “Some natural threats, such as earthquakes and meteorite impacts, remain the same throughout time, while others are aggravated by our modern-interconnected world. But now we also need to consider threats that are human induced.”…
1: Climate Change
Nick Brooks is a senior research associate at the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research at the University of East Anglia:
“By the end of this century it is likely that greenhouse gases will have doubled and the average global temperature will have risen by at least 2C. This is hotter than anything the Earth has experienced in the last one and a half million years. In the worst case scenario it could completely alter the climate in many regions of the world. This could lead to global food insecurity and the widespread collapse of existing social systems, causing mass migration and conflict over resources as some parts of the world become much less habitable. I don’t think that climate change will sound the death knell for humans, but it certainly has the potential to devastate.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/apr/14/research.science2
Some people have no sense of humor. I can understand that. No one likes to be the butt of a joke. Then one needs to be very careful not to place ones self in that position. I suggest this is little more then an attempt at intimidation and the old adage about all publicity being good just spell my name correctly, comes to mind. One should take care however, when going into courts of law. I suspect the rules of evidence are far higher then the political baffle gab, propaganda and sophistry we have been subjected to.
Submit a news tip to The Drudge Report
The more tips they get on the same bit of news the better the chance it gets taken up.
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Henry chance (16:25:26) :
If Jones and Mann had stepped off the sky high egos and sent some data when requested under the FOIA, I really believe this crisis would have been preempted years ago.
I think a lot of other crises would also have been averted, but that wouldn’t have advanced Mann’s agenda.
I too would be happy to contribute to a legal defense fund. My attorney friends tell me that discovery in a civil suit can go very wide and deep. Anything that might be relevant can be supoenaed with few exceptions. This might expose every problem in Mann’s questionable career.
Dan Lee (17:15:59) :
“Mann has never heard of the Streisand effect?”
My exact thought Dan! Talk about shooting oneself in the foot!
You can bet your life that Google results on “Hide the Decline” will hit another high today!
I wonder who paid lawyer Mann used?
I will contribute to your legal costs. Put that video up and be sued. There are 10,000 people with $20 who will support you. You can check with Anthony and Leif that I do come through.
In rereading this article, I think this is my favorite part. Funny. And ridicule on a level that most people can relate to is a powerful force.
“Speaking at the No Cap-and-Trade Coalition press conference was M4GW spokesman “Chicken Little,” a man in a chicken suit who goes to rallies crying “The globe is warming, the globe is warming!”
When asked about the situation, Chicken Little said, “I used to believe in global warming — of course, I used to believe the sky was falling too, but Elmer set me straight.”
So-called “Scientists” can’t prove their point, so they resort to legal action.
Well, sue me you liar, Michael Mann. I want to see your “evidence”| You are a liar, Mann.
Mann forced to man up in court? I too would pay money to see that.
latitude (17:10:54) :
No, you must understand that the “climate scientists” are not just stupid. They are the herd following the money; they are also fatally flawed as characters as they are prostituting their reputations for ideaological (in the case of Hansen) or pecunary (CRU, etc) purposes.
Personally, I like a good whore. She is proficient, honest, a benefit to society and fun to be with … unlike c(r)(l)imatologists.
“For some reason, climate scientists seem to have the worst P.R. sense in this whole world.
…
I wonder if it’s a requirement for being a climate scientist,
or if people with that disability just migrate toward climate science.”
I think it’s the latter.
It’s half political already and certain people are drawn to that. Then let them marinate for a few years in their hermetically-sealed, hothouse little world where they are only accountable to each other and get to choose their own reviewers and you can imagine the shock when they suddenly find they have to answer to the rest of the world. They’re simply not used to it and it’s bracing.
I was recently reading the Wegman Report and what struck me the most were the comments on the lack of professional statisticians involvement in most paleoclimate research. It’s just another example of the insularity of the field. It appears, on casual examination, that three or four years later the situation hasn’t changed appreciably. Trillions of dollars and the future of the world economy and the prosperity of its citizens are riding on the policies that will come from this research and according to the Wegman Report, “We note that there is no evidence that Dr. Mann or any of the other authors in paleoclimatology studies have had significant interactions with mainstream statisticians.” And this: “As statisticians, we were struck by the isolation of communities such as the paleoclimate community that rely heavily on statistical methods, yet do not seem to be interacting with the mainstream statistical community. The public policy implications of this debate are financially staggering and yet apparently no independent statistical expertise was sought or used.”
When someone pricks their bubble, they simply aren’t prepared for it. They’re used to being unanswerable to anybody except each other. With an ethos like that, no wonder they fare so badly in the PR department. The isolation of their science from the mainstream has allowed it to grow sloppy and squishy and it can’t stand the rigor.
I almost wish Mann would sue because then he would have to explain what he did with his hockey stick in a court of law.
Hey, for national security reasons, we must hide the decline, or the enemy may get it.
I’ve just made my contribution. Would’ve loved to have given a lot more but I’m on a fixed income. Maybe I’ll review my finances and give more tomorrow.
I think Mann feel emboldened because he was exonerated on the whitewashed inquiry at Penn state and now Jones has been exonerated on a similarly whitewashed inquiry.
So the 1st Amendment does not exist anymore?I suspect there may be quite a few lawyers who might take their case pro bono. Who knows, with the legal defense donations, & pro bono lawyers, M4GW could make as much money as Al Gore. Would that be sweet revenge or what? Give it to em.
There is court precedence in America that legal action can’t be taken on satire.
DirkH (15:38:45) :
It’s satire. Wasn’t that supposed to be legal in the U.S.?
I don’t think there was real reason to take the original video down.
Al Gored (15:47:58) :
This law suit would be the best possible outcome, unless the AGW gang can cherry pick an ‘appropriate’ judge.
That is a real problem in America, i.e., judges that use their politics in their decisions. And you can always find a judge who uses his left politics in the courtroom. So that drags things out and adds to the expenses. Eventually you get a judge, or judges, that use the law and not their politics to make decisions. But it could cost millions by then.
I’d think Mann would be a public figure on the basis that he participates at Realclimate, he authored a book called “Dire Predictions” and that he contributes to IPCC reports.
“….he falsified data….”
It would be very interesting to see all of his methods finally brought out into the light to see if he didn’t falsify data.
I’d like to see if random noise put into his program outputs a hockey stick. Cause I’m just wondering……..
Zorro (17:32:29) :
“Stick it” to Mann. He’s bluffing.
Is Michael Mann is smart enough to bluff? 😉
If “Dr” Mann thought FOI was hard wait til he goes throught the legal discovery process, BTW Dr in quotes is satire.
Please put the video back on youtube, it was GREAT!! If Mann sued, he would have to release all code and data, image that!!
There are no winners in this.
Science has taken a right royal kick in the bollocks, a polarised population yips and yaps to cheer lead the team, Media and PR whores spin it both ways, or try to bury it. Conquered and divided, real issues pushed to the margins.
Mann must be under Icelandic Volcanic pressure, which is nothing to gloat over, it could happen to any one, hell it even happen to some of we skeptics,
in truth, many of you have borne worse with grace, above and beyond the call of duty.
This whole period in history is ugly and lowers the bar for stupid and vindictive, the white flags are far and few between, but at least a few were hoisted here. (not surrender, but open dialogue)
I suspect sooner than later, Mann will be fed to the wolves, and a new, convivial, media savvy, useful idiot will be propped up in his empty seat. A false new dawn will begin of non-partisan (but still biased), joint research, minor faults will be admitted too, but that was then,…now we’ve chased out the bad eggs, we’re back to proving AGW was sound, in fact we always knew it was.
And the media will roll over, again,…and get its belly tickled,…again.
And on that day, i’d say get ready for round two.
If Mann sues & wins, Sarah Palin should sue Saturday Night Live.
Count me in on a donation if needed.
No political donations this year for anyone who isn’t sane ; )
“It is naively assumed that the fact that the majority of people share certain ideas or feelings proves the validity of these ideas and feelings. Nothing is further from the truth… Just as there is a ‘Folie à deux’ there is a ‘folie à millions.’ The fact that millions of people share the same vices does not make these vices virtues, the fact that they share so many errors does not make the errors to be truths, and the fact that millions of people share the same form of mental pathology does not make these people sane.”
Dr A Burns (15:50:34) :
Why isn’t Mann being sued for fraud ?
I’ve been wondering that for some time. All 4 elements have been met, IMHO.
Bob Edelman (18:22:50) :
I too would be happy to contribute to a legal defense fund. My attorney friends tell me that discovery in a civil suit can go very wide and deep. Anything that might be relevant can be supoenaed with few exceptions. This might expose every problem in Mann’s questionable career.
You mean Michael Mann may have opened a Pandora’s Box into himself?
This may be just the court case (if it happens) that people like Christopher Monckton and John Coleman have been wanting!
Thank you Mr. Mann!
btw – Global Carbon Taxation is fraud and any fool who supports it is just that – part of the “sane society”. ; P
The Mann Hockey Stick graph is in the UN/IPCC report and it is in Al Gore’s movie. Am I to believe Michael Mann is not a public figure??
Amino Acids in Meteorites (19:51:13) :
It may be time to log the first International class action law suit against governments on behalf of the peoples of the world. I wonder how many billions we could get to sign on in day or so? 4 many 5 billion would make a solid statement ; )
sorry, s/b 4 maybe 5 billion signatures would make a solid statement
I hope every AGW promoter tries to sue their way to scientific scrutiny.
hmmmmm – fund raiser for this effort can’t be “send us a Liberty dime”, the postage costs more. Maybe Bush’s odd ball approach when the towers fell – “Give a buck”?
20 April: UK Telegraph: Iceland volcano: UK airports reopen as BA claims shutdown ‘unnecessary’
Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, questioned the science behind the lockdown.
“What I would really like to know is whether we are absolutely certain that the initial decision taken to close down UK aviation at this level of risk was correct,” he said.
It emerged that two vastly differing maps of the ash cloud were being circulated by official bodies.
One, prepared by the government-controlled Met Office and used by the CAA and Nats, showed the ash cloud covering much of Europe.
A second, produced for the European air traffic control co-ordinator Eurocontrol limited the areas of danger to two high-density clouds over the Atlantic.
This second map and extensive test flights which have shown no negative effects on aircraft helped persuade many other European countries to reopen their air space. ..
Bob Ainsworth, the Defence Secretary, whose department is responsible for the Met Office, made no public statement about the crisis.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7612109/Iceland-volcano-UK-airports-reopen-as-BA-claims-shutdown-unnecessary.html
What if he wins? Will he get fame, and a wood heated RV, formerly the home of a man who plays guitar dressed as a Viking?
Tragedy is there isn’t anything left to trust.
So why would he threaten this suit now? New viewership must be tailing off quite a bit by now. All this does is put the spotlight on him again. Can he be that desperate?
Curious (16:36:43) :
Rajendra K. Pachauri must believe he’s this generation’s L. Ron Hubbard.
Indeed, his badly written fiction knows no bounds.
… other then the second law of thermodynamics
Phil Jones to Mann on his citation index, “Problem is my surname. I get a number of 62 if I just use the software, but I have too many papers. I then waded throughand deleted those in journals I’d never heard of and got
52. I think this got rid of some biologist from the 1970s/1980s,
so go with 52.”
Mann has a chance to tell the truth. What do you think he does?
Mann, “HI Phil, OK–thanks, I’ll just go w/ the H=62. That is an impressive number and almost certainly higher than the vast majority of AGU Fellows.”
He is a proven liar, no doubt about it.
Omigosh he’s stepped in it now!
If he sues, he’s subject to discovery, and I mean REAL discovery, not namby pamby white wash discovery that he just went through by a jury of his conspirators… I mean peers. He has to put it ALL on the table to prove the ridicule was unfair. He understands this…doesn’t he? He has to prove is claims to LEGAL standards? He could be held liable for legal costs if he loses, which he also understands? And if he backs down now, after having made the threat…. everyone will claim it was because he couldn’t make it stick and knew it. Who will he call as supportive witnesses?
Professor “no statistical warming” Jones?
Dr “I have a tree that matches that graph, but only one” Briffa?
Oooh, oooh, I know.
Bailiff swears in witness:
“Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?”
Dr Ravetz:
“Well, uhm… define truth….”
LOL
I think all the action heros should step on stage from Doctor Who and redress the tweens – teach some Physics.
I am currently unemployed, but donated to M4GW tonight. Missing a few meals this month is the least that I can do.
Defend? Hell no, ATTACK!
good thing that i saved a copy of the original. Download Helper plugin for Firefox is great for saving videos off the net.
Some interesting comments @Climate Audit: click
I’ve been wishing for months that I was still rockin’ for a living. I’d be leading off my second set with that gorgeous parody every night. Even in my “kinky hippie chick” days I think I would have done that. Now there’d be no hesitation at all: It’s just too right there.
I will also, with great pleasure, donate to a legal defense fund for M4GW. The need is not likely to arise, unfortunately, as the video has disappeared from their website. However, if you Google Hide the Decline it can still be seen, as it has been re-posted by other fans (although the first version I saw has disappeared already). I’ve tried downloading the video but the available links do not seem to work – not that I’ve ever attempted such a download before, so the problem may be personal incompetence.
The traffic to view ‘Hide the Decline” probably declined in recent weeks, but Mann has managed to put himself back in the spotlight. Well done! I’ve watched the video three times already tonight!
Satire may only be allowable as a defense against charges of copyright infringement, which is part of the Cease & desist letter.
I don’t know if it can be used for a defense against charges of defamation (slander), but truth is not slander, and courts give less protection to public figures than most of us. Mann’s frequent appearances on the talk show circuit could be used as evidence that he is a public figure, that would be a bit ironic, but irony is like that. 🙂
Evidently this was already covered in the famous Larry Flynt versus Jerry Falwell Supreme Court decision. Hustler had printed a satirical advert about Jerry Falwell’s early sex life and he sued and won damages, but it was later over turned by the Supreme Court. There is even a movie about it.
How does one donate to Mann’s legal fund?
21 April: UK Times: Flying into the unknown: why Met Office science on ash is inexact
Indeed, all weather models deal in probabilities rather than facts; nor are our satellites and weather balloons designed with ash plume monitoring in mind.
The Met Office uses a pollution dispersion model called Name. That stands for Nuclear Accident Model — it was prompted by the 1986 Chernobyl accident. Developed to model dispersion of nuclear fallout, the system treats ash and dust in the same way. An estimate of the volume of ash being injected into the atmosphere is fed into the model, which applies Met Office forecasts of wind speeds and structures and produces a best estimate for where ash will be found…
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article7103311.ece
Michael Mann. Along with Phil Jones, his name will go down in the annals of science as an example of how science gets corrupted.
He would win in Britain where satire ,per se, is not a defense. That is the purpose of the threat. Unfortunately no one in America gives a damn about British law and awards. The Brits have become as judicially respected as Russia, China, Spain or Turkey. Nut cases.
And in other news – It turns out there is indeed a link between CAGW and the recent volcanic ash air shutdown. The Met Office (ardent CAGW fans) produced the map that was responsible for unnecessarily shutting down European air space. From:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7612109/Iceland-volcano-UK-airports-reopen-as-BA-claims-shutdown-unnecessary.html
“It emerged that two vastly differing maps of the ash cloud were being circulated by official bodies.
One, prepared by the government-controlled Met Office and used by the CAA and Nats, showed the ash cloud covering much of Europe.
A second, produced for the European air traffic control co-ordinator Eurocontrol limited the areas of danger to two high-density clouds over the Atlantic.
This second map and extensive test flights which have shown no negative effects on aircraft helped persuade many other European countries to reopen their air space.”
The left will come the aid of Mann due to the trillions involved in the fraud.
I feel the ice-age coming on fast – I say freeze um out.
Of course, dr mann will claim the SUV’s did it.
Chicken little global warmers are going to be sooo angry about the decline in temps caused by Mr Icelandic Volcano. Also, how about those solar flare cycles. Honestly, if the climate only changes because of my suv and air conditioning, why do I have sea shells and glacial boulders on my Ohio farm. What the heck were those dinos and…cavemen up to…?
Tom in South Jersey (21:06:18) :
Evidently this was already covered in the famous Larry Flynt versus Jerry Falwell Supreme Court decision. Hustler had printed a satirical advert about Jerry Falwell’s early sex life and he sued and won damages, but it was later over turned by the Supreme Court. There is even a movie about it.
================
I don’t believe copyright infringement was an issue in the Flynt vs Falwell case.
Quoting from the letter M4GW received from Dr. Mann’s attorney, as reported at ClimateAudit:
“You are hereby advised that the use of Dr Mann’s likeness, which you clearly misappropriated from PSU’s webpage,www.meteo,psu.edu/~mann/MRG/index.html, is not authorized and infringes on various copyrights.”
My 7th grader came home from school after watching “An Inconvenient Truth” and “learning” about global warming. We talked about the facts presented on this website and watched “Hide the Decline” together. It was the most successful act of parenting I’ve ever done.
You didn’t see Sarah Palin suing Tina Fey, and whatever you might think about Palin, she’s nobody’s fool to do something as inadvisable as Mann is about to.
Other examples are Rich Little and Richard Nixon, Dana Carvery and GHW Bush.
I forget who did Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton.
Oh well, it’s Mann’s choice.
I must say I wondered if the threat of law suits was why the Oxburgh inquiry released that strange addendum.
It sounded like it was — and Mann was the obvious person for someone upset enough to threaten legal action unless they released a statement saying … “it is important to be clear that the neither the panel report nor the press briefing intended to imply that any research group in the field of climate change had been deliberately misleading in any of their analyses or intentionally exaggerated their findings.”
especially as Steve McIntyre’s research was specifically cited by Professor Head as being very impressive,
Come on guys. Google it, and then play it.
Got 7191 views already.
Hilarious
“Missing” heat may affect future climate change
http://www2.ucar.edu/news/missing-heat-may-affect-future-climate-change
The Firefox Download Helper lets you download videos from YouTube and other streaming video sites. It downloads them in .flv format though, so you’ll need VLC Media Player to play them unless they are converted to another format.
I just got my copy of Hide The Decline this way.
Nine times out of ten, these “Cease and Desist” letters concerning internet content are nothing more than bullying tactics. In order for content to be defamatory, it has to be false, and satirical works are protected under free speech in the USA.
Discovery!
I wondered how a professor could hire an attorney for such a frivolous lawsuit. One that would get tossed out if ever brought before a judge.
Of course, a quick look at Cozen O’Connor’s web site (the attorney’s for Mann) show them to be deeply involved in representing the underwriting of carbon trading and off-sets. They have former members of the EPA on staff, etc. Their representation of Mann is a business move to protect their investments.
In agreement.
Most people would let the kerfuffle die. Not ego boy.
Mr Manne can’t afford the high risk stakes of a lawsuit, because discovery is one thing, but there is enough to damn him ten times over, even without discovery.
His brief may try to remove the emails as inadmissible on a legal technicality but the case is about the emails, the subject of the song, good luck.
But seeing the documents are government funded and M4GW did not hack but are only commenting on them, having seen them on the internet and Mr Manne never having denied them, just trying to explaijn them and reinterpret them, again good luck.
Lastly Mr Manne has made himself by conduct an advocate and hence political, his privacy issues are less defendible. He has had to front Government and failed to defend his preposterations.
Most people having dug themselves in a hole they can’t climb out of, they stop digging.
And the victim angle, we all know victims of Manne Jones and the whole conspirator crew. Someone buy him a tissue.
I think someone gave him some very bad advice.
Take it to the Supreme Court!
Cambell and Acuff-Rose, the U.S. Supreme Court
Parody needs to mimic original, at least to the extent the audience can perceive the original expression. Therefore, if one has to make the original expression unperceivable in order to avoid infringement, there is no way to create parody as a logical consequence.
Therefore, if one has to make the original expression unperceivable in order to avoid infringement, there is no way to create parody as a logical consequence.
The Chief Justice realized this dilemma and wrote a supplemental opinion saying that “to avoid infringement, for example, we may conceive a way that Defendant should take a photo by himself which mimics the expressive form of the Plaintiff’s photo to the extent necessary for expressing parody and adding photo montage method to his own photo.” I cannot believe there is any parodist in the world who would fly to the Alps just to make such a montage.
All the sceptic blogs should carry a copy of the video under the heading “Please sue us, Dr Mann”.
There’s absolutely no way he’s going to go to court over this. He’s all bluster.
The original is still available here:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ff_1268964195
Erm was there not a photo-shopped image in the emails released…….and did this not involve it being sent to Mann’s coworkers if not Mann himself?
http://dailyradar.com/beltwayblips/video/hide-the-decline-ii-1/
Hide the Decline II is a white flag.
Beauregrad’s French genes got the best of him.
The teutonic Mann sensed it and rolled over him.
We lose our right to free speech.
Now No Cap & Trade has to storm the beach and do his fighting.
Sorry, but it really is pathetic.
On the off chance that this makes it to court, just who is most likely to be the ‘court jester’?
Just some help for all the buddies out there: Playing You Tube .flv videos? Doesn’t EVERYONE have K-Lite codec pack and the included Media Player Classic? This plays any format that exists, is light on memory and is free. You will never need anything else. For downloads: ant.com for both Firefox and Internet Explorer. Also free and works like a charm! (Just thought I’d mention it)
A couple of the posts here point to an analogy in regards to climate and the volcanic ash cloud.
On the one hand, there is the IPCC and the UK Met Office maximising the scare stories through the use of bad/dodgy scientific models, thus causing as much harm and inconvenience as possible to the general public (in Europe).
On the other hand, you have another group – in this case the European Union, the airlines, the pilots and groups like WUWT etc, who say: “yes, we recognise there may be a bit of a problem, but it is no way as bad as you say it is”.
In the first instance, it is a combination of bureaucrats, academics and dumb politicians. In the second instance it is mostly people who actually understand the real world and interact with it.
I am still not happy about comparisons between planes flying through sand storms and volcanic ash – sand storms are OK, yet they are forbidden to fly through areas of much lower concentrations of volcanic ash.
The volcano in Iceland is spewing out mostly silicates, but no quartz – it is not that type of volcano. Silicates are much softer (hardness 5-6, as opposed to quartz sand, which is 7) and therefore should be much less abrasive than quartz sand.
One day history will judge AGW as being “Much ado about nothing”, but until then we have Mann, Patchi, Jones, Hansen et alia as today’s purveyors of bad and/or distorted and/or manipulated science. Mann’s threat to sue should be taken in the context of the Icelandic volcano, potentially impressive, but not really all that dangerous.
JimBrock (17:42:57) :
“… Now that Mann has threatened a lawsuit, an action in declaratory judgment would lie in federal court….”
Jim, could you please explain that for us poor layman? Getting Mann in court while Congress is trying to push another Cap and Trade bill sounds like a necessity.
This has made me watch the old version again in “High Definition”
Utube “Hide the decline – High Definition”
as well as the new version. The new version has some extras (I like the erasing) but the first video was brilliant, timely and a very hard act to follow.
The word on the street is no one is buying Capn Trade, just arse covering back pedal.
EPA is the worse outcome. Barry flanked you there.
In Oz, our Barry, has just recognized what the press doesn’t, he holds job seats, for his majority.
They are called battlers, working class, trades and jobs, merchants and so on, even white collar.
He is flipping like a pancake.
He is dropping la la land like a shit sandwich and going whitebread.
Micheal J Bentley,
Doesn’t one also have to prove the “Public Figure” has a reputation to defame? For instance, isn’t it true that to call a woman who is known publicly (presumably through legal convictions) as a prostitute a “whore” would not be considered libelous by the courts but that it normally would be considered so for a woman without that legal history? At least I think I remember that being a commonly used example to explain this nuance of libel law.
Any legal experts out there?
Mann bring it on, we await the courtesy of a blog duel in the real world.
I like Elmers crew, dont like their abode much, but then again a 4 poster dont move that well on land.
Aaargh.
I also want to see what Mann said about Phil Jones’s citation index. Was it 62? That alone is fraud enough to sink them both.
When the legal discovery is done, I’d like to see Mann’s email to Gene re deleting emails, and Gene’s reply.
————————————————————
1212063122.txt
From: Michael Mann
To: Phil Jones
Subject: Re: IPCC & FOI
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 08:12:02 -0400
Hi Phil,
…
I’ll contact Gene about this ASAP. His new email is: xxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com
talk to you later,
mike
Phil Jones wrote:
>
>> Mike,
> Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
> Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.
> Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t
> have his new email address.
> We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.
We need some pro Bono to bone this thing.
Let me check me ships log.
Yer in cases like this, a dishlicker can make partner.
May day May day, Ship in distress, (not a ship a campervan).
Manage the planet by all means, deal with the population elephant in the room definitely.
Fight to stop rome burning while people get rich researching CO2.
toyotawhizguy (23:13:20) :
Free speech in the US and New Hampshire Constitutions puts limits on what the government can do. It does not restrict prosecution in cases like this where the harmed party is a private citizen(*) or in things like disclosing a company’s trade secrets.
(*): Given that some of Mann’s research was funded by federal grants, that opens an avenue to claim Mann is a government agent. Therefore, he may not qualify to claim defamation. When the politicians give you a big government, take advantage of what you can.
This is happening at the same time Hitler vids are being taken down:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/194649/hitler_parodies_booted_off_youtube_death_of_a_web_meme.html
If I had the resources, I would by the rights to the original and publish and promote the heck out of it and dare the Manniac to sue.
OT sort of. A new bill introduced by Inhofe, etc. which seeks to prevent the Administration from using NEPA to consider greenhouse-gas emission or climate effects in proposed federal-agency rules.
The Bill – http://www.eenews.net/public/25/15249/fe….ument_gw_03.pdf . Note the comment within the bill credited to the Council on Environmental Quality.
“(A) ‘‘it is not currently useful for the NEPA analysis to attempt to link specific climatological changes, or the environmental impacts thereof, to the particular project or emissions, as such direct linkage is difficult to isolate and to understand.’’;
(B) ‘‘From a quantitative perspective, there are no dominating sources and fewer sources that would even be close to dominating
total [greenhouse gas] emissions.’’; and (C) ‘‘agencies should recognize the scientific limits of their ability to accurately predict climate change effects, especially of a short-term nature’’.
The video is still everywhere, HD version:
good luck getting rid of it Mann.
The word is buy. This aint about copyright this fight is free speech.
He has had his free speech.
He Mann can’t complain.
This is open source. He has decided legal.
He can either retract and apologise Internationally or he can fight.
This is not a staring contest.
If we’re talking copyright, wouldn’t it be Tommy James who might have a grievance?
He has not been defamed.
Just been called a crook. (For non Oz, breaking laws).
The accusation in the song is: fraud.
Merrick,
I think some legal beagles have weighed in on the subject several times on this thread. The point is, proving a “public figure” classification isn’t that difficult – Joe the Plumber is a good recent example.
(Little man scurries in to the mic….(copy from previous post))
Mike
Mann can’t win and any low priced lawyer or better can tell him that.
The “title” of the video came from his own e-mails. Mann smeared himself and handed this to the comedy world free of charge.
Any low priced on up lawyer will however write just about any threatening letter for a little money.
In a civil case, it is for Mann to show damages. He may be able to show damages. But they come from his self destructing admission we call personal e-mails.
The last chance Mann had to save himself was if he had been successfull in deleting the data, records and the e-mail.s.
Don´t you have a constitution anymore, is it also unemployed?
Klimaskeptik.cz has a nice story about:
http://www.klimaskeptik.cz/news/nova-krize-s-karikaturami-/
The new caricature crisis
===============
As we have previously informed, Michael Mann threatened to sue the authors of a satirical video about him. Also, Osama bin Laden declared himself a warrior against climate change a few months ago (needless to say, climate change is caused by the evil capitalism). If this evolution continues, we can speculate that these two movements that share a strong anti-capitalist ethos will ultimately be unified.
The vision of the year 2030 is the following: mobs of angry climoslems are burning cars in nighttime Paris. They demand the authors of the caricatures of Michael Mann and Jim Hansen, the prophets, to be punished. Imam Jihad Climatechange bin Mussavi says: “Not only they are destroying Allah’s work by the CO2 emissions but those infidels are also blaspheming the holy prophets. These acts have touched our sensibilities. We denounce the tomorrow’s murder of the authors of the caricatures but we understand it.”
Since the first video is still available everywhere and this threat from the lawyer representing Mann has stirred the pot again by threatening to sue, we can only expect a lot more people will view it, which is something Mann must not have intended. Too bad!
I viewed the first video just after it came out months ago and I viewed it again yesterday and to me the video now makes a lot more sense, considering what has transpired since my first viewing. Maybe that’s what Mann is trying to hide–the problems with AGW become more obvious by the day. And while the second video isn’t as entertaining as the first, it nails the most salient points by totally discrediting the Hokey Stick (misspelled intentionally to refine the definition).
Obviously he is not so an intelligent guy, as he believes himself. If he should be then he wouldn´t have do this as this stirs again the Climate Gate waters removing all doubts about his previous behaviour even from his closest friends and relatives. Worst, it will profoundly dissapoint The Prophet leaving him without his beloved and Holy Hockey Stick temperature Totem.
Hold the front page!
I checked on Google and the only story related to this is the one put about by M4GW.
If WUWT wants to grant free publicity and more video hits to a group which should really remain obscure …. then, fine!
But scientific, it ain’t.
Luboš Motl (07:30:26)
we can speculate that these two movements that share a strong anti-capitalist ethos will ultimately be unified
It looks like they already did….think about new “Imams”
I think I’ll sue M4GW too, as I cannot get the “Hide the Decline” song out of my head. I’m sure that must be causing global warming somehow. Heck, that volcano erupted shortly after the video became popular so there must be a connection there too. ;->
Paul
Hey! toby (08:18:06) : So, again, Little Lulu left you alone!
There is also something called “Human Weather”. Opinion polls are like barometers and thermometers, they capture the ups and downs, highs and lows, hots and colds of the moment. Some forecasters in “Human Weather” are like some forecasters in Weather Weahter, pretty good a reading the tea leaves and guessing what things are going to be like in the near future. There are many many mundane Human Weather forecasters.
Human Weather also has its “Climatologists”; all trying their best to see what the trend in the human weather is. It’s a very unskilled profession, it takes no degree or special training, anyone can do it with a little cup of tea. Saying that, there goes: ‘Lawyers are crusin for a brusin and it won’t be long before someone starts sho__tin.’
Things were a lot simpler at the turn of the last 40 centuries.. and the weather wasn’ bad either;-)
Finally Mann himself wants to give his work the kind of peer review that he can’t fiddle.
Mann has plenty of fellow sleaze bags who are all telling each other how elite, distinguished and noble they are.
In this environment where government and academia work in tandem to provide comfort and cash to their lofty heirarchy Mann feels good about himself.
And if any time he starts to feel the blues he simply calls up another pig to boost his phony self back up.
While behind the scenes they are all giving their critics the middle finger.
Mann’s attorney appears to be quite ignorant of copyright law or is simply trying to intimidate the potential defendants. Parody is one of the most staunchly defended forms of “fair use” and the videos are clearly parodies. Mann does not have a good copyright case and a defamation basis would be weakened by the satirical nature of parody. However, HankHenry (06:18:17) raises and interesting point. If Tommy James and/or his music were not the subject of the parody, the use of his music would be an infringement. It would depend largely on who owns the copyright (James or the record label) and if the copyright were re-registered following the major changes in copyright law in 1994.
If Mann pursues the copyright angle at all, he would loose and he would have to pay the defendants’ legal fees. Same goes for any claim by Penn State over the use of the photograph that is the public’s vision of Mann as it is part of the parody.
The defendants’ should not have taken down the parody in the first place. They should have stood their ground and forced the issue knowing Mann had very weak ground on which to sue.
They will come unstuck here.
To get offended and legal about comedy means that you have – well – lost it completely. The comedians will always win.
.
Mann’s actions remind me of scientology’s litigious antics. Perhaps on page 45 of the Cults for Dummies is a primer on suing your critics!
Hey Buddy! Passion driven individuals use to not having any sense of humor as their hormones use to be revolted, in common terms, that is called, in psychiatry, as the late Prof.Charcot demonstrated, hysteria which is characterized by seizures of agitation, muscular tremors, anger, cold sweating…in other words what the also late psychiatrist S.Freud would call a subconcious non sublimated and refrained libido. That would be also clearly explained by C.G.Jung, after carefully studying the close similarity of the “hockeystick” with the reproductive organ….
Evidently, the individual in question, is in urgent need of psychoterapy.
toby (08:18:06) :
Hold the front page!
I checked on Google and the only story related to this is the one put about by M4GW.
If WUWT wants to grant free publicity and more video hits to a group which should really remain obscure …. then, fine!
But scientific, it ain’t.
———————–
Reply: True, but that shouldn’t preclude it from discussion. Note that the masthead of WUWT is:
“Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news by Anthony Watts”
This certainly pertains to life with a climate change subtheme, and to me and perhaps many others, Mann going after a parody is definitely puzzling.
That it hasn’t been picked up by the Lame Stream Media is a “whatever”.
OK Mann, bring it on. Some of our correspondents have suggested ways of defeating a Mann suit which are based on the technicalities of the law – is this satire or not for example. But the best way to approach this is to let Mann sue and challenge his statements in court. Let him be shown to be the con artist he is. Maybe some lawyer will take this case as pro bono but if not, I will contribute to a fighting fund even though I’m broke. Let’s go for it. Will choice of Judge really matter? Is the American system that corrupt? There is always an appeals court. The time has come. If this guy wants to play hardball, please, let’s oblige him.
Mann is attempting to silence the satirists with threats. He must be acting as his own lawyer. Consequently, he has a fool for a client.
No ethical lawyer would advise him to file or even threaten such a frivolous lawsuit. His downside includes legal fees and potential sanctions. Worse, he becomes subject to discovery that could lead to disclosure of his files. The defense will look for proof from Mann’s files to show that their satire is true.
Luboš Motl (07:30:26) :
The new caricature crisis
The vision of the year 2030 is the following: mobs of angry climoslems>>
Don’t DO that! Laughed so hard I blacked out.
Might they splinter into competing groups? Climoslems and Post-Normal Climoslems?
Does this mean that Dr Mann is willing to have his science peer reviewd in open court??????????
I look forward to a revealing Court Case – suing M4GW would have been boring, but the Coalition – now that gets interesting.
Al Gore and his cronies could raise $100 million for this case, and it could become an entertaining O.J. Simpson style court drama pitting AGW Climatologists vs. the Members of the No-Cap-and-Trade Coalition:
Let’s get everything on the table – emails, documents, donor lists, strategy memos, phone conversations. Subpoena duces tecum and subpoena ad testificandum should be quite interesting for executives of the Heartland Institute and the Competitive Enterprise Institute, for starters. Nothing shines light in the hidden corners of organizations like a criminal case.
Of course, I’m not too interested in the Machiavellian machinations of the Minnesota Elk Breeders Association. They would probably skip most of the Coalition Members…
Once Lost is over, I could watch this on TruTV (formally CourtTV) for months. Dr. Mann should sue for $10 million damages from the wealthiest Members, then it would be like a Reality TV Game Show – does he win the money ? Reality TV about real issues, not some stupid island survival story.
Anu (yeah right),
All trumped by Mann himself under oath having to account for the dealings with his friendly “$$$ greenies” which would no doubt include how many in line to make serious “money for nothing” from Cap`n Tax and all that entails? Indirectly that might be all on this side of the pond? While following the pennies filling the coffers of those not raising their homes onto stilts in Boulder Colorado in anticipation of Goracle scale predictions might lead to some “Tea Party” group, following the millions tossed upon the collection plates at the Church of Climatology leads straight to those set to make perpetual billions off of green alarmism.
Mann doesn’t come out of court well in this exchange as those he deals with themselves will certainly not.
This could have been the ‘Geert Wilders’ moment for America…
Alan F (15:27:29) :
As I said, I’d like to see this all out in the open, in Court. I’m betting you won’t like the outcome, just like when Penn State investigated Mann, just like when Parliament investigated Jones.
I really don’t see why people think “Cap and Trade” will raise $trillions for some people. Is faith in Wall St. corruption so complete by now ? Is this from some YouTube mockumentary ?
Do people realize there is *already* a carbon cap-and-trade scheme in place, created during the Bush Administration ? It was the idea of Republican Governor Pataki of New York, not Al Gore or Greenpeace…
Republican Governor Mitt Romney was a supporter of the idea, and only dropped out at the last minute due to a disagreement over one provision; Massachusetts has since re-joined. The Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) is currently composed of 10 states, with other states and provinces of Canada with ‘observer status’ for now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Greenhouse_Gas_Initiative
They have already auctioned off carbon credits:
http://www.nrcm.org/news_detail.asp?news=2644
“Under the Initiative, CO2 emissions from electric-generating power plants will be capped at present levels until 2015. From 2015-2018, CO2 emissions from these sources will be reduced by 2.5% per year until a 10% reduction is achieved.”
The RGGI auction will generate revenues that will support a variety of climate-related initiatives, primarily energy efficiency improvements for homes and businesses in the RGGI states. The goal is for these investments, in turn, to lead to even further emissions reductions and greater energy savings for consumers.
Carbon cap-and-trade is not some ‘money making’ scheme. It is a way to encourage less CO2 belching power sources over time, and more energy efficiency improvements.
As far as I can tell, Al Gore gets no money from RGGI. Nor Dr. Mann.
Parodies are well protected speech. Methinks Mike is craving more PUBLICITY. But the damage has been done – RIP global warming non-news.
Interesting, but I would think that Professor Mann’s face is in the public domain by now.
Best regards to everyone. I always enjoy this website.
Just to let you know that Techdirt have picked up on this story today (30 April). Link to their piece:
http://techdirt.com/articles/20100426/2329599185.shtml