From the BBC, apparently Copenhagen is falling apart:
Environment correspondent, BBC News website, Copenhagen
Excerpts:
The African delegation is unhappy over moves by the Danish government
Negotiations at the UN climate summit have been suspended after developing countries withdrew their co-operation.
Delegations were angry at what they saw as moves by the Danish host government to sideline talks on more emission cuts under the Kyoto Protocol.
As news spread around the conference centre, activists chanted “We stand with Africa – Kyoto targets now”.
Informal talks continue, and the UN climate convention head said the formal agenda should resume in the afternoon.
Blocs representing poor countries vulnerable to climate change have been adamant that rich nations must commit to emission cuts beyond 2012 under the Kyoto Protocol.
But the EU and the developed world in general has promoted the idea of an entirely new agreement, replacing the protocol.
…
Last week, the Pacific island nation of Tuvalu forced a suspension after insisting that proposals to amend the UN climate convention and Kyoto Protocol be debated in full.
“The point is being made very loudly that African countries and the wider G77 bloc will not accept non-action on the Kyoto Protocol, and they’re really afraid that a deal has been stitched up behind their backs,” he told BBC News.
=========
Hmmm. Ya think?
This story earlier on WUWT certainly suggests something was indeed “stitched up”:
More Leaks – Copenhagen in disarray
Thank heaven for small mercies. The suspension is for the wrong reason; economics not science. But we will take any benefit we can get.
I can not blame the poor. They were behind the Copenhagen money. Where’s the money?
Well it had to happen, i`m surprised it has taken so long for developing countrys to realize that the west just wants to surpress them and prevent their development. If we are in the crapper, well then they will have to pay the price i guess.
I doubt that this will torpedo the talks. I expect some sort of agreement to come out by Friday.
Alas.
I posted the in the notes to WUWT section, but am so enraged Im going off-topic here-sorry.
Has anyone else seen the disgraceful FRONT PAGE article in the Independent on Solar activity?
Even for the Indy, it’s shocking.
Jim Cripwell (05:48:23) :
“Thank heaven for small mercies. The suspension is for the wrong reason; economics not science. But we will take any benefit we can get.”
I agree Jim,”Hopenhagen” has become” Nopenhagen”….
Meanwhile at GoogleGate, Google search results for “climategate” (I’m tracking just this one spelling for consistency’s sake) are now down to 21.2 million (from 30 million), while Altavista has continued to climb to 76.3 million.
Gore must be making it worth someone’s while.
Good – failure is the best option.
Why is there juvenile chanting at a “conference”?
Too many square pegs and round holes as usual in the world of the ‘Idealist’.
A paradoxical world where, yes it IS possible for a human to disappeare up their own Rectum.
The Danish text drafted in secret basically amounted to taxing people in developed countries into poverty while royally f**king over already poor people in poor countries, and then passing all the revenue from taxes and carbon trading to the elites.
Looks like the wheels are coming off the bus!
It was always about the money. Climategate has not convinced our leaders of anything because there is nothing that will convince them. Ironic that the greed of third-world oligarchs should succeed in doing what reason, rationality and science could not.
well, that fog-web-of-intrigues-planet icon speaks volumes and I am delighted the fog appears to be lifting long enough…
They’ll still get their last foi gras, caviar and free prostitutes in limos before they leave in Gulfstreams. No problems for them. They just won’t be able to look forward to two Gulfstreams in their future now without the money they would have made in the future from an ‘agreement’.
So…the poker game hots up?
The God of the poor is helping us all.
I’m sorry I was under the impression that this summit was about climate change not money?
They keep telling us it is too late, and we are all going to die from flood, famine, pestilence, hurricanes, drought, disease, extinction, acid seas, heat, cold, CO2 poisoning.
And now they stop the debate because they are not getting enough money from the rest of the world? What is the point of all that money if everyone is going to die anyway.
If they are so convinced by this CO2 nonsense maybe they should make the changes needed anyway. Or is it really just about the money?
Hmmm. Ya think?
Cogito, ergo skepticus sum.
Gordon Brown (Our PM) said he was going to COP15 tommorrow night.
I told you about the ‘Jonah Curse’ of Brown.
It is true.
He could fall into a bucket of boobs and still come out sucking his thumb.
Would caution against putting too much faith in these reports.
When I was in the U.S. Navy, ships routinely published false schedules regarding future movements. Correct schedules were published only just before the movements themselves were about to be made. Obama himself probably followed a similar tactic when publishing his COP15 schedule, only to change it just before the meeting started.
Similarly, these arguments about agreements are published so that those opposed to the agreement cannot argue against it, as no one really knows what the agreement even is. See The current U.S. debate on health care as an example.
The point to what I’m saying here is for folks on the skeptic side to stay focused and take press releases with a grain of salt.
Forgot the link:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/sunspots-do-not-cause-climate-change-say-scientists-1839867.html
A collapse in disaray of the Copenhagen summit would be the best result possible.
Anything that stops the developed nations pouring even more of our hard-earned pounds (dollars, euros) into the bottomless pit/black hole that is Africa has got to be welcome.
Everybody with more than two brain cells to rub together knows that the 1.2b€ (1.5b from the Mighty Broon — what a pillock that man is!) is going to do nothing for “global warming” even assuming anything can be done about it; it will all end up in the dictators’ Swiss bank accounts like every other bit of “aid” we’ve given them.
But don’t worry; they’ll cobble something together by the weekend to paper over the cracks!
Building Babylon tower, anyone? Sincere wishes for the same outcome.
This was always about money. Nothing more, nothing less. That’s why ‘science’ doesn’t matter.
The economics were worse than the science. Of course economics in the political discourse has been consistently awful recently.
“Supersmart” negotiation tactics by the “rich” govs:
First announce big fat payments and then reconsider that your own country’s debt is already killing you. Hard to get out of that situation.
However, they may now slowly adopt the idea that AGW has turned out to be based on bad science … LOL
Then to use 10% of that promised money to fight real problems.
Doesn’t this sound like a win-win?
I wouldn’t get too excited about this. This sounds like posturing to me: they are just trying to get more money thrown their way.
Wait until Mugabe gets there – that’s when the fun will really start.
Hopefully this will buy some time to properly audit the temperature records , not to mention for the Earth to continue to ignore the GCMs.
I just hope the collapse of these talks is complete and allows the real effects of the climategate mails time to wholly discredit those poliscientists intent on ruling our lives with pseudoscientific alarmist lies!!! As a first time commentor I must offer my thanks to Mr watts and his ilk who have educated me enough to see through the smoke and mirrors employed in this battle for the truth.
Because the work was so important, even if merely symbolic, the workers of the world should not begrudge doing with less until the carbon footprint for this event is neutralized.
Any news of who the activists are? If they are chanting in English, I’d have to guess a group of Americans.
One perspective here (random):
http://chrisdaviesmep.blogspot.com/
Earlier he commented it was more of a lunch break.
I fancy this is for effect and part of the pantomime. They are stommping there feet for money and know that COP is under preasure with lots of people watching.
Prediction, developed world pledges more money and more CO2 cuts to save man kind from destruction. The formation of the global governance board continues.
So, what’s the underlying narrative here? On the one hand there’s a group of nations that firmly believe that they’ll face total annihilation without mitigation efforts that they cannot accomplish without outside financial assistance. Financial assistance that was, and is being, painstakingly negotiated under the framework of the Kyoto Protocol. On the other hand there’s the developed world that thinks that if everybody does not move to a low-carbon economy we’ll all, in time, suffer humanitarian disasters and devastating economic slowdown, and that such a transition has become very hard to negotiate under Kyoto.
Of course, they are both correct. Let’s hope they will find some negotiation space to navigate a solution.
I shouldn’t get too excited see this…
Climate Change Talks Back On After Walkout
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Copenhagen-Climate-Change-Summit-G77-Group-Of-Developing-Countries-Walk-Out-As-Protest/Article/200912215499846?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15499846_Copenhagen_Climate_Change_Summit%3A_G77_Group_Of_Developing_Countries_Walk_Out_As_Protest
Of course it was always about the money. It was never about the science.
The science was just to give a gloss to the politics. Therefore it didn’t and doesn’t matter to all in Copenhagen that it is junk science.
If the truly poor, developing countries really wanted to deal with the change in climate they’ve been indoctrinated in, why don’t they demand these ’emission’ reductions from the two countries who emit the most – China and India?
Perhaps because they might not get as much cash as they think they can screw out of the bad, rich West?
The absurdity of the situation is beginning to dawn on everyone ….
– Governments influenced by politically motivated eco-activists have made energy changing ‘promises’ they cannot in any way deliver, and financial ‘promises’ they know will not be tolerated by their electorate
– The whole premise of these promises hes been undermined to the point that more than 50 of their populations don’t believe the rationale and there is no way of passing any required legislation of underwrite them
– Global politicians who have staked their reputation on the line by claiming this is the greatest crisis the world has ever faced
– Developing nations who know they have the entire world over a barrel and can pretty much ask for anything they want .. due to the above
– As an example the island nation like Tuvalu (a place of 12,000 inhabitants – approx equivalent to 6 Shanghai apartment blocks) holding the process to ransom because they inisist on ‘holding’ the earths temperature rise to 1.5 degrees C
I don;t know whether to laugh or cry at the image of the leadership of world has been reduced to this. What hope do we have ?
Jim, it’s ALWAYS been about the money….
Great to see more turmoil here. It been a enjoyable clown show and there still one more week left of such great entertainment!
What a bang up way to end this year!
First climate-gate, then the yellow cards from the Copenhagen Mayor asking hotels not to facilitate arrangements between climate delegates and prostitutes.
By the way, 16,000 delegates x $200 per day x 10 days = 32 million dollars in just hotel bills alone! All paid for by Mr. Taxpayer! (you and me!!).
Then the supposed peaceful demonstrations with nearly a 1000 arrests. Somehow the response of green whack jobs burning cars and throwing bricks through windows does not surprise me one bit.
Now the less developed countries walking out because we not opening our wallets WIDE ENOUGH reminds of feeding time for pigs on a farm. Sometimes the little piglets at the back of the pack are squealing really loud, but it is the big pigs at the front who muscle their way to the feeding trough first.
In other words, the western nations are not being socialists enough and they want more buckets of duckets! This video by the Muppets explains what Copenhagen is all about:
Funny, but it is clear that Copenhagen summit is all about money! Why is there no talk about the science anymore? What happened to science?
I do heed the warning that several here noted about this supposed walk out does smell. You see this week the G5 leaders fly in and they now have set the stage for the G5 leaders to become great heroes in the media by saving Copenhagen (and offering more money!)
When I see a rich vs poor nation game here, it smells as being all to convenient as setting the stage for more money to be doled out.
Keep up the great work here folks. When I need to be cheered up, I just come over to whatts up and I know I be happy for a good day as the next chapter in the clown show Called Copenhagen unfolds.
Green Turtle
The Greens want the West to regress to the state of the third-world and keep the developing countries as they are; the third-world want to progress to the level of development the West has. Those aims are irreconcilable.
I do not think “progressive-new-age-post-modern-open-society-green-science” will ever get back. It´s just a move.
I would like the “talks” break down on the lack of scientific proof, but hey, a win is a win.
Just invite a few dozen polar bears to the conference. That’ll concentrate the minds of the delegates wonderfully.
in the mean time, Gore flight out Copenhagen for Google?
http://www.google.fr/intl/fr/landing/cop15/
(it is the french subtitled version, certainly could find the same in other languages)
Suspect that Barrack Hussien Obama will arrive and save the day.
He does afterall have a Nobel Peace Prize.
Don’t get too excited about this. Before this thread ends the talks will recommence.
This is a classic negotiating ploy – feign indignation and threaten to walk out. I bet this was meant to try and spur more people to put pressure on their governments to “fight climate change.” That won’t happen, but it was worth a try. Tonight they’ll all be back around the table talking up more ways to help themselves to your money.
I read that solar article at the independant – yes, a disgraceful attack on Svensmark, but other than that don’t worry about it. It’s not a big deal.
First, understand that up until now no MSM outlet would even breathe a hint that there were any scientific studies about solar activity at all – it has been treated as something only crazy people even talk about. For the first time, a MSM outlet feels forced to treat it seriously. Now of course they lie about it and slander everyone who doesn’t sign a loyalty oath to their politically correct view – but if you haven’t figured out yet that this is the way the MSM/dead tree media approaches *everything* now, well wake up. This is how it is – expect nothing but lies from them, but the pattern of the lies still tells you useful information.
And the pattern of lies now demonstrates that they are very scared, and looking for something/someone to attack. They *need* someone to attack, since that is the only thing they know how to do once their own case falls apart and they will never give it up, not until those news outlets are closed for good. (which is an end devoutly to be wished) It is a foolish hope to think that they will ever relent – they have bet everything on this issue and will go down with this ship. So we must make sure that the ship goes down.
But back on the topic, why these attacks do not matter – the possiblity that the warming is caused by solar activity is an interesting possibility, and may be true, but the case that we AGW opponents are making does not depend on it. We can wait and see how the science works out, which thanks to this minimum we *will* see definitively over the next 10 years or so. In the meantime, the only case we are making is that the AGW science is *not* good, there is *no* proof that C02 is linked to warming, and and that the claimed warming may just be the product of statistical manipulation. What do sunspots have to do with that? Nothing, and yet that is the only case we have to keep pounding over and over. Let the media outlets wail away in their hunt for some identifiable villains to attack. (which is why they keep claiming that the “evil energy industry” is behind all the skeptics, even though everyone here knows that is a lie)
Just as an aside, the MSM is now too corrupted to be reformed, and must pass away so that they can be replaced by something else. Something web-based, something with multiple distribution nodes and no central control. Something like we are building every day on blogs like this and a hundred others.
I think the western leaders know the mood of the public has changed.Either they are backing out(using the not developing countries)or they are preparing to ditch it all and say let’s take another look at the science.I know in Australia Rudd has realised he’s facing an uphill battle trying to sell the public his ETS and Obama is in the same position with cap and trade.It will be interesting to see what develops,I really hope I’m right,it will be fun watching them dig themselves out of the hole.
The poor countries are a good scapegoat here. Western leaders who have bought in to the AGW hypothesis don’t have to publicly change their minds and invalidate their previous positions. They can blame Bush and then all go home.
Green Turtle (06:51:25) :
What a bang up way to end this year!
—————————–
Yes, Merry Christmas to us!
I think the sudden elevation of the debate over sunspots, cosmic rays and clouds to the front pages of the MSM shows just how worried they are at the moment. There are several issues here:
1) The first is this is a huge red herring and attempt to switch the debate. The debate isn’t about solar activity, cosmic rays and climate change. The debate is about modern warming, the MWP and attribution.
2) The second point that none of these reports cite any evidence, show any data, or even discuss any reasons why the Svensmark and Christensen studies are in error. We have some of the usual suspects making allegations without supporting these. Laut, Rahmstorf, Crutzen and Berger saying they have seen the arguments but not prepared to elucidate on them.
As for asking for papers to be retracted they want to think very carefully before going down this road. MBH98 and 99 spring to mind as starters.
O/T I’m afraid, but I can’t resist.
I am casting figures from Climategate as characters out of Tolkien. I call this epic __Lord of the Tree-rings__.
Ont the side of Light, Steve McIntyre is obviously Gandalf. Anthony is Aragorn. Lucia is the Lady Galadriel.
The trees of the Yamal peninsula are the Ents.
I can’t figure out who plays Frodo, which is certainly a major lacuna.
On the side of Darkness, Phil Jones is Saruman and Hansen is Sauron. Al Gore is the Balrog. Barbara Boxer is Shelob.
“One tree-ring to rule them all!’
Of course it’s about the money, as far as the ‘developing nations’, or whatever the current politically correct euphemism for them is, are concerned.
Just as it is all about the politics as far as the eco-fascists and their useful idiots are concerned.
UK Telegraph (Scottish edition; I can’t answer for the rest of the UK) today. Salmond (Scotland’s First Minister, for the benefit of anyone outside the UK who might not know the ins and outs) lambasted for his stance on nuclear power. Told that Scotland’s carbon emissions have gone up by some figure I can’t remember because I wasn’t that interested because the nuclear stations are winding down and the coal-fired ones are having to take up the slack. And his favourite green technologies don’t work.
In a typical “mine’s bigger than yours” stance he’s aiming to have Scotland’s emissions cut by some impossible figure that will have us back in the 18th century (or earlier).
Somebody at the weekend noticed that the current crop of protesters look very similar to all the other Rentamob recruits of the last 30 years.
You don’t say!
It’s hardly surprising that no-one wants to hear about the science. They know it is almost certain to give the “wrong” answer.
I wonder what Newton or Faraday or Einstein would think of the idea that there is a “wrong” answer. I think their synapses would fuse!
If all these African countries abolished Soscialism and started up Capitalism, they would be able to create their own infrastructure, jobs and economic future.
I wonder how many generations will have to suffer before they themselves, Merckel, Brown and Obama will realize this?
Carl Bussjaeger (05:57:42) :
Meanwhile at GoogleGate, Google search results for “climategate” (I’m tracking just this one spelling for consistency’s sake) are now down to 21.2 million (from 30 million), while Altavista has continued to climb to 76.3 million.
Gore must be making it worth someone’s while.
Well that’s it – just switched my search engine out of disgust – to Yahoo, which is showing over 71 million hits for climate gate. Well done, Google!
Honestly, only India and China can truly stop this deal. What I do not understand is, if the deal goes through, how will it be enforced on the taxpayers as the world cools for decades?
I promise to cut my CO2 emissions by 50% by 2050.
And I will commit to cut my emissions by 100% by 2060 (since I should be fully sequestered by that time).
I cannot make a commitment for 2020 since my schedule is already fully booked for that year.
So much political brinkmanship. Do any of these parties pushing for cuts and regulation really want them? expect them? or even know what they will do if they get them?
Nomad-Brit (05:57:18)
I wouldn’t worry too much. the Independent is just a minor circulation paper that doesn’t live up to its name, and in any case, if a matter of debate is being sided with in the common media, it is in the nature of the averagely educated English mind to harbour even more doubts, under the pretext that if the press side with a general authority consesus, there must be something wrong with the consensus.
the Guardian is the newspaper of extremists and idealistic causes.
If memory serves, Kyoto wasn’t doing too well at the time until a certain vice-president saved the day with his carbon trading idea. Coupled with an appealing date against which to measure CO2 levels and the Kyoto Protocol was born.
Not that it’s had much success. And has no enforement behind it (good!).
So now, here we go again. It’s all political posturing. An agreement will be worked out, even if it’s to sign on to agree to meet in a year or two to sign a new Kyoto replacment agreement.
magicjava has it right.
Beware the red herring in premature press releases. This could all be a clever orchestration for Algore O’bama to ride in on a white horse at the last minute and save the day.
The U.N. cabal has worked too long and too hard to let this golden..and I emphasize GOLDen…opportunity to slip from their hands.
they are doing this so they won’t have to listen to Chavez. Brilliant move.
The fundamental irony of all this is that any realistic global energy policy meant to address AGW will not produce any discernable change in climate – even if you accept the IPCC’s conclusions at face value.
Knowing this, the CO2 conferences have morphed into an attempt at a global power grab and massive wealth redistribution by the UN. It doesn’t even appear to be primarily about CO2 anymore.
Agree with “ew-3” above, this is setting the stage for team Obama to come in and save the day. There will be divine inspiration when he arrives.
Countries with low per capita income went to Copenhagen to get money. They still are in denial. That “money” will be eaten by higher food and energy costs.
The money will be kept by the money handlers.
Suspended until the Livingston and Penn graph line crosses the X axis….interesting!
Arthur Glass
To pick up your Tolkeinian analogy, we would also need a ‘Wormtongue’. How about Gavin Schmit, or Tamino?
What about Gollum? He could be the MSM.
As noted in ClimateDepot’s current headline:
The world must take action on climate change at Copenhagen even if the science is not correct, Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister has suggested.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6803921/Copenhagen-climate-summit-Tony-Blair-calls-on-world-leaders-to-get-moving.html
They’ve too much invested (politically) to walk away. An agreement will be hammered out and signed, even if at the last minute, and even if it’s nothing more than an agreement to put off to another day a more binding agreement. These buffoons aren’t even thinking of walking away.
Nomad-Brit (05:57:18) :
Has anyone else seen the disgraceful FRONT PAGE article in the Independent on Solar activity?
…Yes, I saw The Independent today, and just ignored it. The global warming people are so desperate that they will publish any old rubbish and expect the public to believe it. They’ve shot themselves in the foot this time because they’ve drawn attention to the fact that sunspot activity is one of the reasons the Earth is getting cooler. This cooling is happening to other planets in our solar system. A very good book to read about this effect is “The Chilling Stars”.
Let’s see, the African nations are not going to cooperate. And this means what? Are they going to refuse the money that is sent to them by the rest of the world?
Agree that caution is in order. The troublemakers are on somebody’s payroll, or will be. Those who don’t shout on cue, and cease shouting on cue, will be visiting the kennels run by the cops of Copenhagen.
That said, the politicians have to be looking for a happytalk outcome. None of the developed countries can afford the payoffs let alone the changes in economc output that emissions control will require. The politicians know this. They also know the voters are getting wise and are fed up and scared silly about the current tax-and-spend frenzy that has only weakened the global economy. So the “global leaders” have nowhere to go but home after –they hope– some great photo-ops and networking. Agreement to agree on an agreement to study and confer blah blah and very important implementation process blah blah next year hum hum hum.
The poor countries will be thanked for their passionate advocacy and really compelling personal testimony, given a good dinner and a bus ticket home with promises of lots more capacity-building studies.
At least, I hope so. The alternative is they bring home impossible obligations and the taxpayers throw them out.
Hey….that works too.
JB Williamson
Nice up-to-date catch. From the article:
“But they agreed to continue negotiations after securing guarantees that the talks would focus more on the future of the treaty, European and African delegates said.”
What the heck does that mean? Did the developed world just call the developing world’s bluff and the developing world has now scrambled back to the negotiating table to save some portion of a redistributionist deal? Are all participants saying there won’t be a deal now but there would be some general discussion on the treaty’s “future”?
Kind of weird.
This article was sent out under the Raymond James header, but one cannot verify the accuracy based soly on this header. But the article is intriguing.
Energy December 7, 2009
Industry Brief
J. Marshall Adkins, RJ&A, (713) 789-3551, Marshall.Adkins@RaymondJames.com
Pavel Molchanov, RJ&A, (713) 278-5270, Pavel.Molchanov@RaymondJames.com
Energy: Stat of the Week_______________________________________________________________________________________
Global Leaders Plead with China to Save the Planet by INCREASING CO2 Emissions
In a shocking turn of events, it is now expected that the attendees to the United Nation’s Copenhagen climate change conference starting today
will reach out to developing nations to actually increase their output of CO2. According to inside sources, global leaders are now concerned about
overwhelming, indisputable scientific evidence that the world is in the early stages of another ice age. In an effort to save the planet (and their
political futures), politicians have done an “about face” and declared CO2 now politically correct (http://co2isgreen.org/). While it may take a few
more days to re-program the entire global warming crowd, this change in public sentiment has clearly begun to take hold over the past few weeks.
The following key events triggered this complete re-assessment of previously un-debatable facts: (1) recently discovered “Climategate” files
revealed a whole new set of global temperature data that suggested the world has, in fact, been cooling rapidly over the past decade; (2) Oprah’s
sudden and unexpected retirement announcement raised immediate concerns about substantially less hot air available to warm the planet; (3) the
earliest recorded snowfall in Houston has now corroborated and confirmed the new “Climategate” data; (4) discovery of some ancient third-grade
textbooks that revealed increased levels of CO2 were actually good for plants and could help offset food production losses from glaciers invading
Iowa; and (5) fears that indeed hell would freeze over if TCU, Boise State, and Cincinnati all made it to BCS bowls have thrown the nation into a
tizzy.
1. This incredible shift in global opinion began only weeks ago
as TMZ revealed a startling and very unexpected discovery.
According to paparazzi reports, several rock and roll hall of fame
researchers were searching the vaults of an obscure British University
(University of East Anglia) for the “lost Beatles songs” when they
stumbled upon a collection of long lost climate data. Apparently, the
files were hidden under a few scientist mattresses and mixed in with
some ragged 1970’s Playboy magazines. The startling thing about this
data was not just the fact that it appeared to be deliberately hidden
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEiLgbBGKVk) but that the
“new” data actually showed that the planet has been cooling rather
than warming. As seen on the right, the United Nations
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) temperature
projections (in red, orange, and brown) compared to actual global
temperature surface (green) and satellite (blue) measurements have
moved in completely opposite directions over the past several years.
Also, note the yellow line representing the UN’s projection of future
temperatures if there were no further human-caused CO2 emissions.
IPCC Predicted Temp
U.N.’s projection if no human
caused CO2 emissions
Actual Temp
Predicted Temp Change vs Actual
Temperature (Celcius)
Source: John R. Christy
With the cat out of the bag, government leaders had to react quickly. Fortunately, President Obama’s daughter Sasha was studying advanced third
grade science in her upscale, very expensive, politically correct private school. Over a piece of breakfast fruitcake, Sasha suggested to her father
that an easy solution to the imminent ice age driven global food shortages would be to actually increase the level of CO2 in the atmosphere. As all
third graders know, plants consume the CO2 that humans exhale. More importantly, scientists have long known that increasing the amount of CO2
in the atmosphere increases the growth rate of plants (http://www.plantsneedco2.org/). In fact, she taught her father that a doubling of CO2
concentrations is estimated to improve plant yields by 20% to 50% with less water. Solution found.
Based upon insider leaks ahead of the Copenhagen summit, it appears the world’s leaders will now be attacking this global cooling crisis with a new
sense of urgency. Flying leaders individually in private jets from all over the world to meet in one of the northernmost parts of the civilized world in
the middle of winter should not only generate a lot of fossil fuel related CO2 but also release a lot of otherwise useless hot air when the
negotiations begin. Now, let’s just hope that China and India do their part to increase CO2 emissions and save the planet over the coming years.
It only gets better! LOL… I’m hoping by the time the conference is over later this week, it’s in tatters.
It has been said before. But I repeat that it will be very interesting to see how the expectations that have been blown up and up and up (by the incompetent MSM, the even-more-incompetent and venal politicians, the crooked ‘scientists’, the big finance Ponzi scheme operators and all the rest of this sorry crew) will be managed once this huge AGW bubble, inevitably, deflates.
There are hosts of ‘true believers’ who may be naive but who are (in their own lights) taking action to save the world. They won’t be happy bunnies.
And there are all the ‘leaders’ of the world’s poorest nations who have been promised wealth and help with this ‘problem’ which allegedly threatens their very existence.
Many of these ‘leaders’ are as incompetent and venal as any of the other clowns at Copenhagen and I’m sure some will realise full well that this is just a scam and that there is no real ‘climate danger’ at all. But their citizens probably won’t realise this at all! Their own media will have been doing their utmost to scare everyone!
So when they get back home with only a few platitudes and vague promises (and hopefully a dose of something nasty from their extra curricular activities) to show for their Jolly in Denmark, what then?
Could get quite exciting! It would be lovely to think that those who have whipped up the storm will be held personally to account. But I don’t see that happening, unfortunately. The most likely outcome is that it will just become yet another millstone round the necks of the taxpayers of the ‘developed’ world.
AManuel (08:13:51) :
Agree with “ew-3″ above, this is setting the stage for team Obama to come in and save the day. There will be divine inspiration when he arrives.
Certainly should be no problem for He who is “partners with God in matters of life and money death.”
“”” Arthur Glass (07:43:35) :
O/T I’m afraid, but I can’t resist.
I am casting figures from Climategate as characters out of Tolkien. I call this epic __Lord of the Tree-rings__.
Ont the side of Light, Steve McIntyre is obviously Gandalf. Anthony is Aragorn. Lucia is the Lady Galadriel.
The trees of the Yamal peninsula are the Ents.
I can’t figure out who plays Frodo, which is certainly a major lacuna.
On the side of Darkness, Phil Jones is Saruman and Hansen is Sauron. Al Gore is the Balrog. Barbara Boxer is Shelob.
“One tree-ring to rule them all!’ “””
You mean to tell me that people actually waste the mental space to actually remember the names of anybody in “Lord of the Rings”. Even watching the eye candy movies (Peter Jackson) I never did figure out what the hell happens in that story. About as informative as “War and Peace” mixed in with “Anna Karenina”, along with “And Quiet Flows the Don.”
But since it is Rings we are depending on; I’ll go with Wagner’s “Der Ring des Nibelungen.”
Those chanting hippies in Copenhagen sure look like a herd of Nibelungs to me; with about the right amount of intelligence, to play as extras, in “Das Rheingold.”
And as for anyone who can translate “Dendrochronology”, and somehow come up with “Erstaz thermometer”, well I have something for you too. What better folks to be the beneficiaries of Alberich’s curse. That’s what you deserve for peddling this tripe as science. Stick to the DATING of tree rings, and you will be protected from the curse of the “Ring”.
Oslo would be a good place to hold a real Viking funeral for the COP-15 folks; and they could take the Nobel Peace Prize with them too.
oops, Certainly should be no problem for He who is “partners with God in matters of life and
moneydeath.” Don’t want to be spreading any misinformation to the Public, dontcha’ know.Al Gore Arrives at COP15
Developing nations return to Copenhagen climate talks Page last updated at 16:44 GMT, Monday, 14 December 2009
They will agree in the creation of a Komisariat which will be a real supra national binding agreement . This means that these “progressive” signers could be considered, in the near future, as national traitors in their respective countries.
Leon Brozyna (08:54:17) :
As noted in ClimateDepot’s current headline:
“The world must take action on climate change at Copenhagen even if the science is not correct, Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister has suggested.”
Just like WMD’s being used to justify a war in Iraq. No he admits there were none and that regime change was the posterior motive, which was unacceptable at the time.
I sometimes wonder about this Blair fellow. Would I buy a used car from this man?
If only we could have the agreement put off for a half decade or so, the sun says that global cooling will be the new thing. What are the odds that we might dodge this horrible bullet and have no real agreement this week?
Just in:
Angry Protesters Berate Little Match Girl, Trample Her Matches
Crowds of climate protesters hurled verbal abuse and taunts at a young Danish girl who was seen lighting matches in a doorway, accusing her of flaunting her carbon footprint. The chanting protesters, incensed at the recently announced breakdown of talks in the Danish capital, were stirred to new outrage at the sight of flagrant striking and burning of matches.
“She was in the pocket of big oil!” shouted one of the protesters. “If she needed to keep warm, she could have… joined an organized sport, or just put on a down coat. Like us!”
More here:
http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheLittleMatchGirl_e.html
and here:
Little Match Girl,
Copenhagen, Denmark, 1848
Hans Christian Andersen
They had an Urban Heat Index induced “Foggy Mountain Meltdown”.
The protesters need to go break out some more windows of random businesses – it’s the logical next step when you don’t get your way amirite?
/sarcasm off
Politicians are several times named, cited along these lines, but they do not count at all, they are just the butlers and servants, who, by the way, deserve only our pity because of their disgraceful and submitted lives along with all the rest of scientist/cooks, funny courtiers like fatty Al, etc.. Only their masters are to blame, the ones who are unconsciously dividing the peoples of the world into two radicalized parties which could inevitably confront each other.
That was fast …
The thing that upset the third World countries thinking that they had a ‘Free Lunch’ for lots of money, were wrong.
They were astounded to learn that current ‘Foreign Aid’ would be re-labled GHG payments to the Third World. The first World Socialists intended to keep the money and consequent power for themselves…
“A report by three top climate think-tanks says efforts planned by New Zealand to cut greenhouse gases stack up better than the European Union’s – the region normally thought of as a climate leader.
But an analysis by Sustainability Council director Simon Terry found the New Zealand ranking was “wildly inaccurate” because it assumed countries would make real cuts to their emissions and not mop them up with forest sinks.”
Translation the EU leaders are stupid – but the champion in stupidity is none other than our John Key – should we be proud of that fact?
Arthur Glass (07:43:35) :
O/T I’m afraid, but I can’t resist.
I am casting figures from Climategate as characters out of Tolkien. I call this epic __Lord of the Tree-rings__.
Ont the side of Light, Steve McIntyre is obviously Gandalf. Anthony is Aragorn. Lucia is the Lady Galadriel.
The trees of the Yamal peninsula are the Ents.
I can’t figure out who plays Frodo, which is certainly a major lacuna.
———-
How about Lord Monckton as Gandalf with Steve McIntyre as Frodo ??
Anthony as Aragorn – perfect.
…. oh, and a Stevenson Screen on Mount Doom:
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8987/stevensoncreenmtdoom.jpg
Yes, the G77 have rejoined the conference. What else were they going to do? Hold their own conference without the money bags from the West around the table? Now what would be the point of that?
Apart from negligible amounts of hot air nothing will come from this conference. It represents the turning point in the climate debate. Real money was under discussion, and everybody sat up and paid attention.
Democracy has its virtues. Politicians want to be re-elected. As AGW is quickly losing popularity, politicians are looking for the exits.
This is likely to be the last time scientists and politicians stage AGW theater together on this scale.
And as for Africa, the real environmental cleanup that is needed is in the government offices across the continent. Never have so many been robbed blind so many times by so few.
There are actually three agendas running at this farce called Copenhagen, all with different agendas and all using the CAGW myth to try and get the most money.
Top of head possible agenda lists:-
Western World (ex-USSR) – Want carbon credit cash market, want to revive industry using ‘green’ projects, want energy independence, want World government, want to avoid losing power to the rising East.
Eastern World – (+USSR) – Want to continue growth fuelled by burning hydrocarbons, want lots of money on pretext of going ‘green’, want to dominate the world economy, want World government on their terms.
Under-Developed World – Want money to develop, want to continue burning fossil fuel, want to retain control of their raw material reserves, want any World government which will continue to hand out money.
As an added complication, I’m sure there are many factions within each of the above groups with agendas which differer from their partners. USSR is the most interesting player as it has fingers in so many pies.
The player likely to benefit most I think is China – big investments in recent years in Western world and Africa. Which ever way this breaks, they should do OK.
As ever, the under-developed world will lose out which-ever way things go.
The whole CAGW scam is about money and power, not science. Each of the three groups know this and it will be difficult to get any legal agreement in place. I suspect the toothless, face saving statement full of weasel words was written long before Copenhagen even began.
To Nomad- Brit et al,
I believe that the “Sun Spot cycle” influences climate on earth and given warming on Mars etc we can only point to the Solar cycle or the Sun Spot Cycle as the cause. Reading the article in the Independant, the scientists were very careful to refer specifically to the “sunspots”. It may be true that the spots themselves (the little black spots) don’t cause climate variations, but that kind of rhetoric won’t get any traction. You and I both believe that it the underlying solar activity, indicated by the sun spot cycle, that contributes to the climate variations on earth and Mars etc.
Thanks for the tip…
reference:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/sunspots-do-not-cause-climate-change-say-scientists-1839867.html
Is there anyone that believes the contrary? That the spots themselves effect climate? Or do you all believe as i do that the spots are part of a mysterious solar cycle, which yield spots periodically.
Tenuc is on the right track. [I posted this thought as an alternative view-point on another blog:]
|| Please note that the PRC is the primary leader of this ‘discord’; I don’t have time to poke about properly, but I strongly suspect that most of the G77 states are ‘economic client states’ of the PRC [not to mention fans of Chinese arms and munitions].
What we may be witnessing is the first ‘power’ manifestation of the PRC’s global ’shadow empire’.
Yes, the G77 is demanding ‘assurances’ of development aid, but note that main point of contention are ‘hard emissions targets’.
Precisely the kind of shackles that will hobble the Western Nation’s economies, letting the PRC, it’s allies and economic puppet states zoom past the West in the race for global economic preeminence.
It’s a pretty neat trick: force all your rival economic ‘blocs’ to ’save the planet’ by sawing their own legs off. Never mind India, they’ll be dealt with ‘later’.
And the race for the ‘future’ becomes a rigged farce. ||
COP15 IS a multi-layered trap, and ‘climate-guilt’ is the bait.
It’s not just the Western Economic Blocs that are being set-up, it’s the Xtreme Greens as well.
The PRC will NEVER honor any long-time agreement; the skillful application of bribes and threats will mitigate any ‘punishment’, and with the G77 in the PRC’s hip pocket, the UN will become ‘toothless’ [except for those nations stupid to actually honor this fraud].
This battle for our children’s future has only just gotten started.
Arthur Glass
philincalifornia
To pick up your Tolkeinian analogy, we would also need a ‘Wormtongue’. How about Gavin Schmit, or Tamino?
What about Gollum? He could be the MSM.
philincalifornia: “How about Lord Monckton as Gandalf with Steve McIntyre as Frodo ??”
Possibly. But there needs to be an Elrond (powerful elven king), perhaps either Lord Monckton or Richard Lindzen; I think Lindzen would just get the vote.
Another female lead would be required to represent Arwen the elf heroine. Who could play this role? Maybe Kristen Byrnes? Another prominent female skeptic?
The skeptic journalist John Daly – whose death was celebrated in one of Phil Jones’ emails, could be either Theoden, the king of Gondor killed by the Nazgul in the battle of Pellenor fields – or possibly Boromir killed by the Urukhai. (Perhaps Theoden would be better).
Other suggestions? Alongside Anthony Watts as Aragorn, Lief Svaalgard as Legolas, Willis Eschenbach as Gimli?
No shortage of corrupted AGW scientists (walking scientific corpses/zombies) to play the nine Nazgul or ring-wraiths.
A different take on Copenhagen:
To begin with,
it’s unfortunate that those against CO2 reduction schemes are ridiculed as
“not believing that global warming is taking place”.
The point most skeptics make is if CO2 reduction schemes really will affect the progress of global warming,
a point also made by those initially raising the alarm bells eg James Lovelock.
Ironically,
A local focus on electricity and transport alone (80% of CO2 emissions),
with advantages to all regardless of the CO2 issue,
would give the necessary 2020/2030 reductions anyway
http://www.ceolas.net/#cc1x
Moreover, it would not have to impact greatly on consumers in terms of cost,
given long term industrial EU/state guaranteed loans, as described on the website.
If the need is felt to target consumers,
then energy efficiency based taxation – instead of bans-
on light bulbs dishwashers buildings cars etc,
would (unlike the bans) raise additional significant funds that could be used for these and other environmental measures,
while also reducing sales (like the bans), yet keeping consumer choice.
Just looking at ordinary incandescent type light bulbs: 2 billion sales of them in each of the EU and USA 2008,
the preferred consumer choice around 9 times out of 10 as by the European Commission’s own analysis.
Unfortunately….
The EU authorities are happy to alienate EU consumers by telling them how they should live their lives,
what they can or can’t use in their homes,
that “everyone has to cut down and save”
– instead of positively dealing with providing any energy supply that is needed,
with any emission limits that is seen as necessary.
Unfortunately….
the EU and Copenhagen talk is also of extending the Kyoto and EU Carbon trading schemes.
The problem with emission trading is particularly in the short term,
that everyone now considers so important,
since any squeeze on allowance permits takes years to kick in, all the more so with the free allowance handouts and offset schemes.
The “No Goldilocks Solution”,
as seen in the EU where the problem with carbon prices is they
are either too low and so cheap and meaningless as in recession times,
or too high to lead to any reduction at other times, when evasive
action for example involves paying off third world emitters (who
according to a recent Economist article can simply be set up to rake
in cash ie they would not be emitting otherwise), or tree planting
exercises of dubious effect, which may in any case be fast growing
non-native trees which changes local ecosystems.
An artificial market will always be an artificial market.
_______________
Understanding Emission Trading (Cap and Trade) – and why it doesn’t work
http://ceolas.net/#cce5x
Basic Idea
Offsets — Tree Planting — Manufacture Shift — Fair Trading
Allowances: Auctions + Hand-Outs — Allowance Trading
Companies: Business Stability + Cost
In Conclusion
‘How about Lord Monckton as Gandalf with Steve McIntyre as Frodo ??’
That works for me.
The “consensus” behind this AGW fiasco has always been a loose coalition of groups who saw it as an easy opportunity to achieve the implementation of personal agendas which were nearly impossible by other means and most importantly to get their hands on other people’s money. Like other similarly organized groups[ bank robbers, scam artists, etc.] the critical moment in the enterprise arrives when it’s time to split up the loot. That is the point where things tend to fall apart. In Copenhagen we are seeing another proof of the old axiom “There is no honor among thieves”
“What about Gollum? He could be the MSM.”
How about George Monbiot?
Whining and snickering are Gollum’s forte.
:Al Gore Arrives at COP15.”
‘Al Gore has left the building’ would be welcome news.
You know, there are times in life, brief moments… when morning sunlight dawns, when waves crash on a beach, rhythmic yet perpetual, those moments when time slows and you See and Are One.
I’ve just had one of those. The skeptical side quiets, as does the analysis. And one just sees. Be the moment.
Some of the Islanders and 3rd world may well have a greedy hand out knowing full well that AGW is a farce. But the actions here suggest another thread as well:
A lot of the 3rd world delegates BELIEVE they are doomed!
The AGW folks had to “oversell the thesis” to get the more skeptical countries to move, oh so tentatively, to a ‘well maybe’ stance. During that oversell, the ROW folks got the Holy Crud scared out of them.
Now the AGW folks are stuck with a radical fringe of demonstrators and a paranoid fearful ROW that all DEMAND a solution other than the nice, neat, global control system layered on top of business as usual… After all, they know they are doomed, DOOOMEED I say!!
I just love it!
Reminds me of the French Revolution and Robespierre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre
So how’s that new “National Razor” working out for you?
One can only hope that the folks advocating for this grand revolution are now facing the crowd they have whipped to fever pitch with the same level of concern about what they have wrought…
When Copenhagen fails, we need to point at the key players and point out how they too must be part of the Aristocracy and so must be the Evil Ones who have failed to live up to the ideals of The Revolution!
Nomad-Brit (05:57:18) :
“I posted the in the notes to WUWT section, but am so enraged Im going off-topic here-sorry.
Has anyone else seen the disgraceful FRONT PAGE article in the Independent on Solar activity?”
Agree 100% with your sentiment. I read the two recent “independent” articles attacking the solar climate hypothesis.
The logic of their arguments was the following. This is a clear example of a rather pathetic logical fallacy related to a straw man:
1. Skeptics claim (astonishingly!) that climate has fluctuated in the past and that the recent warming might be such a “natural” (how they hate that word!) phenomemon.
2. “At the heart of this argument is the idea that the sun and sunspots are responsible for this fluctuation…”
3. We quote scientists who oppose the sun spot theory, therefore: hey presto, the whole blasphemous idea of the climate having changed in the past (chorus of indignant jowl-flapping) is really just poppycock!
Anyone with more brain cells than a bacterium can see this as a simple and deceitful trick. No – the fact of continuous oscillation of global temperature and climate throughout the earth’s history, abundantly evidenced in palaeoclimatic data, does not rest on the sunspot-cosmic ray hypothesis alone. It is a total non-sequitur and fallacy to imagine that it does.
Other posters above have listed the many other mechanisms, oceanic, orbital and other, that also cause fluctuation, as well as the chaotic dynamics of the atmosphere – ocean that make fluctuation the expected norm, not the exception. In fact in the context of a true understanding of climate dynamics, the idea of persistent stasis of climate is as ludicrous as a flat earth.
Richard Lindzen was correct when he said that: “to imagine that the climate of the mid 20th century in some way represents climate perfection is not a sign of intelligence”.
BTW, the UK “independent” rag is about as independent as the socialist worker daily or the national newspaper of North Korea: a far left liberofascist tract from the very start. Further, the kind of “people” that make up this paper are the kind that exploit the event of Henrik Svensmark’s collapse with heart trouble at Copenhagen, with a front page personal attack against him and his theory the next day. Its clear they are trying to finish him off. I’m embarrased to share the same species as these filth, let alone the same nationality.
It is just a trick to gain momentum. The crowds are yelling yah-boo because of the mean Westerners. When the West gives in it will be a triumphant success for all. Climategte will find it hard to get headlines.
Tor Hannson is right:
“What else were they going to do? Hold their own conference without the money bags from the West around the table? Now what would be the point of that?”
It never seems to be noticed that ‘rich countries’ are not going to be paying anything: countries, like companies, only collect taxes. Their workers will have to pay those heavy additional taxes. The already over-taxed residents of the West will have to pay every last cent of the $Billions and $Trillions being so casually spoken about at Copenhagen. And for what? What good will it do? It certainly won’t filter down to the average person in a developing country.
Another never-reported fact: the reason that poor countries are poor is not because of droughts, colonialism, or any of the other excuses claimed by the Left.
The only reason any country on Earth is poor is because of one thing: bad government. Taiwan’s citizens are still immensely rich compared with the average mainland Chinese citizen. The only reason the mainland is now becoming wealthy is because they have retreated from communism, and started to embrace capitalism.
North Korea is still dirt poor [actually starving] due entirely to its form of government, while South Korea is spectacularly wealthy by comparison. Same people, same culture, same language, same geography. But one is rich and the other is destitute. What makes the difference? The fact that the North is a communist dictatorship, and the South is a capitalist democracy, based on the rule of law.
Africa is filled with countries run by a “Big Man” — a dictator. Those countries are also dirt poor, and practically all UN aid goes into the pockets of the Big Man — in return for the Big Man’s supporting the UN. What, you thought the UN was being altruistic with our money? Name one instance where the UN has forced democracy and good government on any country. The UN buys the support of dictatorships with our money. They don’t give a damn about the starving citizens in those countries. They don’t give a damn about the rampant tribal brutality. In fact, the UN participates in the rape and plunder of Africa.
Most Middle Eastern countries are no different. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran and others are fabulously wealthy because of their oil reserves. But their average citizens get little benefit; thousands of hereditary princes and the truly evil, corrupt mullahs divvy up almost all of the oil loot.
When has the UN has ever taken effective action to remove a bad government, and install a government beneficial to the people? The only thing the UN kleptocrats care about is perpetuating their position as the new world government. The UN is exactly the kind of organization that the U.S. RICO laws were designed to criminally prosecute. The Mafia does a few good deeds too, but they don’t get a pass. Why should the UN?
Kofi Annan and Ban Ki Moon are as crooked as Lombard Street, and their UN scofflaws rack up literally millions of dollars in New York parking tickets, which are never paid. Every one of them is corrupt; an honest UN employee doesn’t stay employed for long.
UN connivers have planned this Copenhagen scam for a long time, and there are more UN scams just like it in the pipeline. It’s all about separating workers in the West from their earnings, and using the shakedown to fund the UN’s mafia-style organization into world government status.
For years Kofi Annan flogged the UN’s “World Tax”, which would asses everyone in the G-8 countries a tax – beginning at .7% of GDP – to be paid into the UN. That’s well over a hundred $Billion from the U.S. alone, every year. Annan’s World Tax got stalled only because of the Oil-for-Food scandal. But it’s back on the front burner again, being promoted by the smarmy Ban Ki Moon.
When you feel these scamsters’ hands rooting around in your pockets with a smile on their faces, ask yourself: cui bono — who benefits? It certainly won’t be us, or the average person in any developing country.
The G77 are like a group of panhandlers at a busy intersection claiming that they’re going to leave for good since the tips are lousy.
Not when it’s the only game in town, you won’t.
So they walked back in again in about the amount of time I predicted.
I was first alerted to this unsurprising event on a Children’s news bulletin (don’t ask!). No doubt the nation’s 8 year olds were biting their nails awaiting the outcome, but all is now well. They even had the ubiquitous enviro nut to whip up more alarm, just in case any of those 8 year olds felt the urge to return to their Nintendo DSi’s.
E.M.Smith (12:23:42) :
Reminds me of the French Revolution and Robespierre…
Not a deja-vu: You know the elite behind it was the same as now..
The fraudsters at the top have gotten much more than they bargained for. Their vast propaganda machine is so efficient that they’ve created a culture of eco-fanaticism that threatens to get out of their control. This whole thing will get much uglier before it gets better.
E.M.Smith (12:23:42) : …and dangerous indeed. All those copenhagen fastening youngsters who histerically believe in prophet Gore’s armageddon, if disappointed could turn their rage against US, deniers of their most beloved cult!
Beware!, that is perfectly possible: a displacement of the libido.
Hypenhagen’s implosion is very good news.
Now we need more leaks from the evil empire of AGW promotion.
It is time to windup this scam.
I think they keep saying things are not going to work out for an agreement hoping that skeptics will take their attention off them just long enough so they can actually sign something.
If Hypenhagen falls apart, it will be the beginning of the end of AGW political power.
Go! Go! Go!
If there are any more AGW insiders with good access and strong consciences, now would be a great time to let a little more sunshine in.
Oh, lookie, lookie ~
The have-not nations have rejoined the circus.
Of course, you know the difference between the have and have-not nations.
The haves have freedom; the have-nots have not.
E.M.Smith – “A lot of the 3rd world delegates BELIEVE they are doomed!”
When you can choose your delegates, it is trivial to pick those who believe or act in the way which most benefits your country… or your dictator. You should have heard the stuff which my state’s delegates were blithering.
The summiteers in Copenhagen appeal to a distinctly Western ideal of justice and equity to condemn global warming. Such principles are what they once shared in common. But the condemnation, and their own inclinations, alienate them from this ideal and leave the presidents and prime ministers of Western nations adrift and squabbling with one another. They are engaged in the politics of cultural despair, a form of moral paralysis.
The summit will fail.
See “The politics of cultural despair”:
It is clear. Obama is planning the journey and it is lining up that he will get rejection in person. You folks have no idea how a narcissist views rejection.
There will be 2 parts to rejection. One is how he will see and describe it. The other will be how he will react. What he will do about it.
NewsFlash.
Here is the outcome agreement from CopenHoaxen.
The Developed world will agree to advance GHG payments to undeveloped countries.
However!!
(a) This will be under proviso of another reevaluation and scrutinizing of the science – due to recent contradictory established fact revelations.
(b) A mandate by the people in the developed countries must approve our agreement.
And there I was thinking that the poster boy of global warming mitigation had arrived – no, not him, I am talking about Bob Mugabe.
He has demonstrated his commitment to reducing his counrties carbon footprint in new and innovative ways including reduced coal fired power generation, reduced use of mechanisation for transport and agriculture, reduced downstream industrial output and increased reforrestation of former agricultural land. Surely all good things that other parts of the world could emmulate? Not only has he achieved all these great steps, he has also made significant inroads into population control with reduced life expectancy and increased infant mortality. All great strides that should be rewarded with additional payments from rich first world countries. In cash, US$ preferred, in non sequential bills and no 100’s please.
Well he is the “popularly elected” President and will get the appropriate “world leader with entourage” treatment in “hokumhagen”.
“Any news of who the activists are? If they are chanting in English, I’d have to guess a group of Americans”
You think that everyone else in the world is as incapable of learning another language as Americans?
Anyone who is going to attend an international conference will be able to speak at least one major world language, and that language will usually be English.
And are we sure that the delegates aren’t just trying to make the conference last longer so that they can have more free service from the generous ladies of Copenhagen?
Haven’t seen this considered anywhere. What makes the US a “rich nation”?
We’re in debt and in hock up to our elbows, close to being in a depression, with more than 30% unemployed, looking at massive amounts of increasing spending and less revenue. Major sources of our energy supply, of which the country’s lifeblood depends, can be destabilized or gone in an instant. Corruption in all sectors of society, including the governments, is alarmingly increasing in intensity and severity.
And we’re going to give countries billions so the peons don’t cook with dung?
The corrupt dictators of most of these “poor” countries will take most of it, which is why the countries are poor to begin with. The peons will still cook with dung, and any money or help left over will be used by the dictators to increase their own wealth and power, or other groups will take over with the same intentions.
***********
Henry chance (16:04:19) :
It is clear. Obama is planning the journey and it is lining up that he will get rejection in person. You folks have no idea how a narcissist views rejection.
There will be 2 parts to rejection. One is how he will see and describe it. The other will be how he will react. What he will do about it.
***************
I am thinking like some others that this situation is being set up so Obama can waltz in and ‘save the day.’ His popularity at home is waning fast, I’m betting some of the enemies of the US would like to see him succeed with his domestic initiatives. Just sayin’.
You forgot about Nancy, the Queen/King of the Nazgul or ring-wraiths.
Not sure if this one has been posted yet, but Gore caught out again:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/copenhagen/article6956783.ece
Arctic Ice now worse than we thought apparently… Gore claimed 75% ice free in just 5 years!
Sounds like one of those miracle diets I see on TV all the time… lose millions of square kms of ice without even leaving your living room !!1!1!!eleven
PS> 75% chance of being ice free that is… got a tad excited 🙂
Regarding the Lord of the Rings… who plays Boromir? Remember he was the one who sought to use the “One Ring” to serve mankind. He thereby sealed his doomed fate.
There is also the question of Ole Bombadil who was clearly a pot smoking hippy in the woods…
Ring-wraiths are obviously the hockey team.
Leon Brozyna (08:54:17) :
The people on the Hopenhagen video appear to be suffering from fairly cold weather. They should be Still Waiting for Global Warming??
Richard Drake (06:09:00) :
The God of the poor is helping us all.
😉
Tilo Reber (09:07:43) :
Let’s see, the African nations are not going to cooperate. And this means what? Are they going to refuse the money that is sent to them by the rest of the world?
———————————–
I am not at Copenhagen so I can only guess, but maybe Africa wants more electricity than Copenhagen wants to allow them.
Richard deSousa (09:20:14) :
It only gets better! LOL… I’m hoping by the time the conference is over later this week, it’s in tatters.
——————————-
Or on ice. Yes, pun intended.
Neo (09:33:10) :
Al Gore Arrives at COP15
————————————
Yawn.
Oh, it must have started snowing.
LORD MONCKTON INTERVIEWS a Greenpeace Activist who does not know anything she is protesting about: But she promised she will look it up!
yes, It’s quite the circus. Get a load of this photo…
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=515260
The Thinker calls it climategate TKO http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/climategate_tko_in_copenhagen.html
The latest blow to the conference appears to be Al Gore’s lie that “These figures are fresh. Some of the models suggest to Dr [Wieslav] Maslowski that there is a 75 per cent chance that the entire north polar ice cap, during the summer months, could be completely ice-free within five to seven years.” But, it turned out that Dr Maslowksi had used it as a “ballpark figure” several years ago in a conversation with Mr Gore.
Oddly, even Dr. Maslowski seemed to backtrack on his own statement, saying ““It’s unclear to me how this figure was arrived at. “I would never try to estimate likelihood at anything as exact as this.”
It’s fun, and a bit horrifying watching the Hokumkookenhagen blimp catch fire, and almost certainly crashing and burning like the Hindenberg. Oh, the humanity!
photon without a Higgs (18:18:09) :
Tilo Reber (09:07:43) :
“. . . maybe Africa wants more electricity than Copenhagen wants to allow them.”
They want a lot more MONEY.
http://hallofrecord.blogspot.com/2009/12/climate-talks-all-about-money.html
You know of course that Bombadil should have never been in the book and was only included at the insistence of Tolkien’s Children.
Bombadil was originally a rag doll that the children played with. – It was probably filled with hemp – given the period – so you are probably on the right track 🙂
I read an interesting interview between an Australian (newspaper) reporter and a Chines delegate in which the delegate claimed that China had a very long history of changing climate where times have been much warmer than today and bamboo even grew along the Yangtze River. His opinion was that warmer was better for China. Along the same line of thinking a Wall Street Journal reporter claimed that the EPA will not regulate co2 because they know that if challenged in the courts they will have explain why a warmer world is bad. A new trend here?
Warm is good, cold is bad. What an idea.
They will agree in the creation of a Komisariat which will be a real supra national binding agreement . This means that these “progressive” signers could be considered, in the near future, as national traitors in their respective countries.
Dr. Bob:
“Global Leaders Plead with China to Save the Planet by INCREASING CO2 Emissions”
Funny. Submit that to The Onion! (They take outside submissions.)
In the words of Jack Nicholson as the Joker, a homicidal maniac “Why can’t we just all get along?”
it seems that the draft agreement that would hand more power to rich nations, was “leaked” and pissed off the african nations…
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Brokenhagen
phlogiston (08:50:32) :
Arthur Glass
To pick up your Tolkeinian analogy, we would also need a ‘Wormtongue’. How about Gavin Schmit, or Tamino?
————–
Failing to find evidence that there is a difference does not constitute evidence that there is no difference. Using the raw data, however, the correlation between Wormtongue and Tamino is statistically significant with a p value of <0.000001.
hmmmm…. Mr. Blair has just mentioned “Fudge-factor” …..
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/climategate_tko_in_copenhagen.html
Fudgable, I meant to say;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/copenhagen/article6955237.ece
Can we start calling Climate Alarmists
“Fudge-Packers” ?
just saying
“JT (09:42:59) :
Can we start calling Climate Alarmists
“Fudge-Packers” ?
just saying”
This has several, potential, meanings. I wouldn’t go there if I were you.
Yes you can stay deaf….but we(Africans) won’t perish in a silence!We are not murmuring,rather we are lumbering like a tender…collectively!
“Bill.Dollars For Africa!”
“Obama Faces ‘Constipagen’ on Global Warming Accord in Denmark”:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHPg_LQB0A5E&pos=8
Will it never end…..
http://www.climategate.com/organized-crime-in-charge-of-eu-carbon-trade-police-say