It’s getting ugly over there, from protesters being arrested by the hundreds, to journalists having their microphones being shut off when asking “inconvenient questions, protesters denying free speech when skeptic Lord Monckton holds a press conference, to hunger strike wizened vacuous talking eco-skeletons.
Cophagen, is now the vortex of climate weirdness. Glad I’m not there.
First up Steven Schneider’s “helpers” release the hounds on a journalist when he asks questions Schneider doesn’t like.
Journalist Phelim McAleer (‘Mine Your Own Business’, ‘Not Evil Just Wrong’) asks Prof Stephen Schneider from Stanford University an Inconvenient Question about ‘Climategate’ emails. McAleer is interrupted twice by Prof Schneider’s assistant and UN staff and then told to stop filming by an armed UN security guard.
Next free speech is assailed. US Youth delegates to the Copenhagen Climate Negotiations crash climate skeptic live webcast in Copenhagen and are called “hitler youth” by Lord Christopher Monckton at an Americans for Prosperity event.
The few, the proud, the starved (and not thinking clearly) Climate Justice Fast.
Tens of thousands of protesters marched in Copenhagen and at least 600 were detained Saturday as climate talks hit a snag over rich nations’ demands on China and other emerging economies
This is what democracy is all about: freedom to think like the majority or else…
From that last video… it certainly looks cold over there. Where is the warming? What’s next? Immolation with bio-fuel as to not increase the fossil based CO2?
The obvious conclusion…tyranical, greedy and cruel governments in third world countries have, for decades, oppressed their populations and stolen the land’s wealth….now of course, because the developed world has prospered….has heat and electricity we have to compensate them.
Perfectly sensible in Copenhagen I suppose.
That was much more like Hong Wei Bing, not Hitlerjugend.
The whole mess gets more and more like Cultural Revolution. 🙁
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. – Hunter S. Thompson
It is more than pathetic when people who call themselves Americans try and stifle free speech. I don’t a;ways agree with his Viscountship, but in this case he is right: the parallels with the thirties are unnerving. Once more, idealistic youth have been conned into serving as tools for cynical elites that stand to reap billions.
Fact: in 1970 only 9% of all Americans had a college degree and about 60% had a high school diploma. Today, more than 90% if Americans have that high school diploma and 25% have a college degree. In 1970 those college degrees were predominantly Liberal Arts degrees. The degrees awarded by the Ivy League are still predominantly Liberal Arts. Everyone else isgetting a degree oriented toward a profession…. what we call “credentialism”…. in the 70’s those degrees got us jobs where we could be creative, exercise discretion. Today, a college degree gets you entree into a world of somewhat higher remuneration but extensive regulation. Today, the proletariat needs a college degree. Most college degrees today simply qualify a person to be a proletarian. Marx would have wept.
At least those fasting are diminishing their potential carbon footprint. Eat nothing, low metabolism, less C taken in to eventually exhale as CO2.
It is sad though. The alarmists are showing their inability for rational discussion; perhaps because they and their cause are irrational to the core.
I’m quite sure more than 600 people are starting to feel outraged by this unsettled science getting rammed down their throats.
I think the skeptical crowd could become quite overshadow.
Those fasting protesters sure look like they could use a nice greasy cheeseburger. Just think, years from now they will undoubtedly look back and deny to their children that they would endure fasting for 33 days for a cause that turned out to be nothing more than hot air.
Imagine that: The fearmongers afraid of answering questions, resort to repression and intimidation.
Just a blizzard of wackiness!
If I was in Copenhagen, I’d be handing out hamburgers and pizza slices in front of the Climate justice Fasters…
Update on non-warming in Copenhagen: As emergency AGW conference continues, it is perhaps ironic to calmly study some weather information readily available on the internet. I apologize that the figures are not absolutely precise because they are taken from graphs at weatheronline.co.uk. Anyone can check my calculations, which took about 20 minutes and were not taxpayer funded.
In the last 28 years (as far as the online records go back), the highest December temperature in Copenhagen was 11 degrees C and that was back in 1983. Over these years, the average highest December temperature was around 7 C. Please note, I am using the highs, to put the strongest possible case for the warmists. (If I were using UN scientist techniques, I would probably be using the lows to distort the case in favour of my own position, or apply a downwards inverted hockey stick adjustment).
Day 1: a high of 7 C, exactly the same as the average high of the last 28 years and 4 degrees COOLER than the high of the last 28 years.
Day 2: a high of 7 C, the same.
Day 3: a high of 6 C, 5 degrees COOLER than the December high of the last 28 years.
Day 4: a high of 6 C
Day 5: a high of 5 C, 6 degrees COOLER than the December high of the last 28 years.
Day 6: a high of 5 C
Can someone please point this out to the Met, the BBC and all the eminent and learned delegates? I now understand that Robert Mugabe will be lecturing on the subject at Copenhagen, to enlighten us all…….
One of the costs of affluent civilization is the burden of sillivization, with old and bitter twenty-something protesters demanding that someone do something to fix anything that enters their momentary flashes of semi-conscious awareness.
I am watching the police assault on the protesters in Copenhagen. Nasty.
I note that the protesters are well wrapped up. Can’t be very warm there.
Always wondered how Hitler did it and what it looked like to have the Brown Shirts break up a party. Now I have seen it first hand.
This new article is reported everywhere. Google “Science not faked, but not pretty” and the blinding results will show up.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gRa5F7Lv_zO0ZKaHmbQENlyV3KdgD9CHPLC00
Also posted on cop15 (with links to original article)
http://en.cop15.dk/news/view+news?newsid=2951
Just looked at the weather predictions for Copenhagen, snowing and -6 C by Weds. UHI effect not a lot of use then, ‘eh. 😉
Why not organize a global petition to demand real transparency of data and calculations on the climate?
The true face of “Climate Science” revealed!!!
1. “Lord Monckton Warns Obama Will Attempt Use of Executive Authority to Committ US to Copenhagen Agreement,” at http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/dec/09120912.html.
Call the White House at (202) 456-1111, and tell President Obama not to sign the Copenhagen Agreement.
2. “1975 ´Endangered Atmosphere´Conference, Where the Global Warming Hoax Was Born,” Special Report, Fall 2007, 21st CENTURY Science & Technology, by Majorie Mazel Hecht, at http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles%202007/GWHoaxBorn.pdf, is an in-depth analyse of the origin of the Global Warming Hoax.
3. “The Global Warming Fraud,” at http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Global_Warming.html, is a further in-depth analyse of the Global Warming Hoax.
4. Say No To Climategate!!!
Say No To Cap and Trade!!!
Say No To Global Governance!!!
Say No To Junk Scientists!!!
Say No To Fold AGW Into National Security!!!
Say No To Copenhagen!!!
Say No To All!!!
A clear indication that we may have won a battle or two, but the war is far from over (figuratively speaking). I hope this does not have to descend into madness. Anyone who lives in a cold climate will tell you that it is much harder to prepare for cold than it is warmth. I am not clear on what the protesters are looking for. What type of society are they talking about? Gilligan’s island? Flintsones? I know my Canadian history and the hardships the settlers endured. High infant mortality, illness, broken bones ( to name a few) were just some of lifes little pleasures. It was no wonder life-spans were 40 years. Will the affluent have all the energy? Any greenpeace personnel reading this ? Please post and help clear this up for me. I have spent a great deal of my life out doors and love every minute of it. Winter camping is spectacular beyond words. But it would certainly be difficult to live out your foreshortened life that way. Maybe I’m way off base, but, ….
That Climate Justice Fast vid was just unflippingbelievable! A more appropriate title for their effort would the Self Righteous Stupidity Fast. Going off my recollection from the IRA hunger strikers back in the day, it should only take about another month of conscientious effort on their fast for them to successfully reduce their carbon footprint to zero. It would be nice to imagine, that those standing and applauding at the end were family and friends and not the assembled journalists, but that’s probably the worst kind of wishful thinking.
Thugocracy in action.
The biggest nut house in the world is not the right description of what’s going on here.
I reject the behavior of the “rabarber’ crowd who suppress the free word.
I especially reject the the behavior of the monkey puppet that threatend the journalist and the people that ordered him to act (all planned IPCC policies)
This is foul play at work.
This is the United Nations at work.
You can imagine what will happen if this bunch of low life’s acquire “real” political power.
Don’t forget the Club of Rome triggered this.
We are fighting our own Governments.
This is an incredible situation to find ourselves in twenty years after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Don’t let this intimidate you. The majority of the people don’t want this.
ClimateGate won’t go over and the this winter will be harsh.
AGW is as dead as can be. There are no arguments, only lies.
We are going to deal with this.
I don’t know which one is the most disturbing.
Unfortunate choice of words by Lord Monkcton to decribe the loutish behaviour by the gatecrashers, however I can understand his frustration.
The greatest pity seems to be the loss of free speech at the Conference
Well, three things to be said.
One, we are in the presence of behavior that has all the marks of the great popular delusions and madness of crowds of the past, financial bubbles, millenarial social and political movements, rushes into disastrous wars, demonizations of some racial or religious groupings, and so on. Such things have led to extraordinarily counter productive consequences all through human history, plague, famine and killing.
Two, not all such surges of belief are incorrect in their objects, the same feelings and behaviors, largely unrecorded as such by history because the outcomes were positive, have led to positive consequences, and some have led to mixed outcomes because the issue was only that a quite rational enthusiasm went too far.
Two examples are canal mania in England in the 18C, and railway mania in the 19C. They really were great and nation changing enterprises, just not quite as much so as the enthusiasts believed at various points. Dotcom was the same, the Internet really was huge and life changing, its just that theglobe.com was not really worth 10 times its initial IPO price.
Two, this is just the behavior of some of the people who believe the hypothesis, it tells one nothing about the truth or falsity of the hypothesis.
Sometimes great mass surges of belief are in things which are true, at other times in things which are totally hare-brained. It is worthy of analysis how beliefs and movements characterized by this sort of behaviour do spread. But that should not be confused with the more boring and detailed task of finding out whether what the believers assert is true.
Three, it may be true, or partly true, or true enough to really matter. We should never forget that the AGW hypothesis may be much more rationally credible than its supporters’ behavior suggests.
Daily mail has cracked huge CA
Well, Lord Monckton has earnt his peerage in my view.
The Chinese, who are biggest creditor, want us to pay for their emission reduction program. Are they going to buy another couple hundred billion in Treasury securities so we can have the the money to cover that. I thought that they had already wised up to the fact that they’ve been lending us the money to pay the interest on what we borrowed from them previously for a while now.
Here’s to a victory for freedom of speech and no taxation without representation. World government means despotic government.
I am kind of curious how “astroturfed” these rallies are – that’s more preferable than the alternative, which is that this people have been completely brainwashed.
Its nice to see the “Green shirts” in action…so much for free speech… soon to be the “Night of the long celery sticks” is it???
Who are the ‘Deniers’ now???
Unbelievable…
What do you say to a young lady who may be physically damaging herself due to statistical chicanery by Mann and Briffa. I would not want that hanging on my soul. These young people religiously believe the faked science, what a misdirection of youth. There was another messiah named Jim Jones, no apparent relation to Phil Jones, but I will note that the religious fervor ended badly in that case as it is ending badly with climate change aka AGW.
When moron’s converge. The Black Hole Of Intelligence.
And how is all of this supposed to convince Mr. and Mrs. Joe Average Citizen that we need to do something about the environment? Last time I checked, hysterics don’t often work, especially about problems that aren’t real.
I am at a loss for words… laughter is working though 🙂 .. I am completely stunned .. comatose even…
References to “Hitler Youth” and “Green Shirts” and so on may seem outlandish to some. But the historical parallels are disturbing and not entirely without basis. It is too early to tell how the politics of climate change will evolve – for good or for ill – but for anyone with an interest in history should read (or possibly re-read) Hannah Arendt’s “Origins of Totalitarianism” – particularly the third section. It serves as chilling reminder of how easily politics can become corrupted; how dire the outcomes once it has; and how difficult it is to set things right.
Look, the people who mainly are involved in the so called green movement are basically the same as those active in various left wing organisations. Living in Sweden, I see the same people that for years have been socialists, communists, animal-rights activists etc. now happily embracing the climate movement. Why? Because they believe it finally gives them a chance to reach their much desired goal – radical social and economic reforms and changes. The cause doesn’t really matter, as long as they can have their long-hoped-for “revolution”.
I sympathize with some of the young people in Copenhagen. They appear to be aware of the almost complete lack of control they have over their lives in the face of big government, big business and the self important baby boomers. We sixties kids were called bums in our time too. Monckton should withdraw his remark.
What has this world come to? I don’t think i’ve ever been scared for my country’s future, but the climate meetings in Copenhagen, along with the media and climate alarmists downplaying and lying about Climategate has changed all of that.
This is worth a post (thanks VG). It has the hockey stock and ‘hide the decline’ straight from Steve M. Nice charts:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235395/SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-Climate-change-emails-row-deepens–Russians-admit-DID-send-them.html
Gee, it’s like a G20 summit. Fits in with that “demanding justice from the Evil Rich Nations for the world’s poor” motif and all.
Nah, scratch that, turnout is too low. Of course the Anarchists stayed home, makes no sense for those wanting to destroy government to demand the largest worldwide government takeover ever.
Actually I’m going to side with the Anarchists for now, if they pledge the UN is target number one. It’s just a place where all the Little Poor Countries gripe about the Evil Rich Nations while demanding money in the same breath, and pushing the same at Copenhagen is destroying it. Newsflash, the Evil Rich Nations are broke!
Every person of colour in the world just laughed at those affluent white kids and their fasting.
Later on, Monckton tracked down the kiddies who hadinvaded his talk and told them what he thought of them. See it here :
(How do I do this embedding trick?)
A patient man went around the zoo, calmly telling the truth to all of the animals. What he learned from the experience: Truth has no effect on zoo.
This is complete insanity, scientific absolutism is the new fanatical religion of this age. Fasting for this length of time is dangerous. The evidence that CO2 is the cause of climate change is in more doubt than ever. New evidence suggests the planet is cooling, which will be the biggest shot in foot from the left and its activists. Don’t fast, stop eating meat if you really want to make a change its the worlds most destructive industry. Wake up to NWO science
fFreddy (00:36:53) :
Later on, Monckton tracked down the kiddies who hadinvaded his talk and told them what he thought of them. See it here :
That was beautiful! I loved how they all thought it was terrible to be called Hitler Youth, after spending years calling those that disagree with them “denialists” to link them in people’s minds to those who deny the Holocaust.
AlanG is wrong in calling for Monkton to withdraw his remark.
He says ” We sixties kids were called bums in our time too”. So was I.
I, however, have never tried to shut down a debate as part of a organised mob chanting political slogans – slogans directly in line with state policy.
Mobs of ideologically motivate youths breaking up meetings by chanting political slogans is a characteristic of fascism. What’s more the links (or homomorphism) between fascism (in particular the Nazi’s) and environmentalism are quite well understood. See for example: How Green is your Nazi?
Monkton is right – wholly and completely – in his analysis.
TheGoodLocust (23:11:58) :
I am kind of curious how “astroturfed” these rallies are – that’s more preferable than the alternative, which is that this people have been completely brainwashed.
There will always be Useful Tools willing to be used by the True Believers. How many of which type are in evidence in these vids is SWAG territory…
You can get a quick over-view of Copenhagen weather for the next five days here: http://www.dmi.dk/dmi/danmark/regionaludsigten/kbhnsj.htm
The text is in Danish but the diagram is self explanatory. Steadily falling temperatures to minus 10C Friday night and in between snow Tuesday to Thursday. A fitting finale to a grand show. Just wish I had shares in Copenhagen hotels or restaurants or maybe owned a few limousines over there.
“Unfortunate choice of words by Lord Monkcton to decribe the loutish behaviour by the gatecrashers”
He could tone it down and yet still make his point by calling them “greenshirts.” If he were to use the term, it might catch on more than it has so far.
David Hoyle (23:13:11)
“Night of the long celery sticks” v. good.
I assume Cristal nacht at €25,000 a Methuselah (of Roederer Cristal champagne) is still on.
Well. Having just finished breakfast, I am starting a two hour fast for –
polypeptide justice
I’m having quite a bit of trouble seeing the science here. As Prof. John Brignell would say: “Alas, poor science!”
The majority of protestors arrested at Copenhagen were members of a black bloc anarchist group and others were funded by businessmen connected to the wind industry.
Wow. Those bright young things have taken to a real zero-carbon diet. After one month one of them can talk nonsense. I wonder what improvement we will see after 3 months?
I’m planning of taking a group to Copenhagen to stage a protest against Loehle’s reconstruction, and against Greenland Ice cores. We’re planning on protesting against proxies that indicate that the MWP was warmer than today.
In fact, we’re going to protest against the Holecene optimum too.
oh – and we’re protesting against the warm year of 1998 which was warmer than anything since. It should be smoothed down on the graphs.
Our biggest protest will be against the Neolithic and Bronze ages. People were healthy and lives longer during those periods, then declined during the Little Ice age. We’re pro little Ice Age, poor crop yields, and human misery
P Wilson (02:35:19)
Of course, let it not be forgotten that no-one really cares about the climate, least of all those who campaign about it – and least of all those agencies who receive big grants to tell us all about it. Its a suitable avenue for creating the right crisis to force an undesirable agenda.
During the cultural revolution, students were radicalised by the government and transformed into a brainwashed mob that ran riot through China destroying everything that did not conform to their communistic dogma. Anybody that betrayed free thought was a bourgoise enemy of the people to be turned over to the state police, including even, their own parents.
One of the most notable things about this “youth army” was the way they sang inspiring “cultural” songs as they went about their grim task. Fortunately to day, we should take heart that what we are seeing in these disturbing images represent only the most tiny number of young people.
Slightly OT:
Christopher Monckton interviews a Norwegian Greenpeace activist in Copenhagen. This is an elegant demonstration of the faith-based activists and how Monckton is politely tearing them apart.
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8907
The only mistake Monckton is guilty of in this interview is thanking the Norwegian at the end with the german phrase “Vielen dank”, a slight insult considering the occupation of 1940-1945.
AlanG (00:06:55) :
Logic matters Sir.
“We sixties kids were called bums in our time too.”
If you were like the kid bums today, you would be called “Hitler youth” as well justifiably.
You do not like to be called that way, huh? But that’s what you were and are.
fFreddy,
“Later on, Monckton tracked down the kiddies who hadinvaded his talk and told them what he thought of them. See it here”
Excellent response from Lord Monckton. When the young Jewish guy feigned righteous indignation at the “Hitler youth” label, I was on the edge of my seat in anticipation of Monckton’s rebuttal. I don’t want to spoil the ending – go see fFreddy’s link.
All seekers of the truth should be gratefull for Lord Monckton’s steadfastness.
Viscount Monktons comments on the actions of the SustainUS crowd…
Personally I think he got it just right….
http://sppiblog.org/news/the-hitlerettes-of-sustainus
cheers
Jim
Re: Zorro (22:16:32) :
Just looked at the weather predictions for Copenhagen, snowing and -6 C by Weds. UHI effect not a lot of use then
—
Well.. it could be. Shift the thermometer to Copenhagen airport, get all the exec jets to throttle up so they’re nice and warm to take their VIP’s off to the next jolly, and voila, instant warming, record temperatures etc etc.
Later on, Monckton tracked down the kiddies who hadinvaded his talk and told them what he thought of them. See it here :
youtube
Monckton was awesome!
Thought this might amuse!
http://i49.tinypic.com/fu8h2a.jpg
The latest threat from increased CO2.
How long do you think before an insignia is produced to align all of the various groups under one banner. My grandfather always said learn from the past to make the future better, never really understood that until now!
Blimey – both barrels from Lord Monckton. I thought he’d made an angry slip of the tongue when the protesters gate-crashed his event – clearly not.
I’m not sure it does him much good but at least he’s consistent – I found myself watching his talk in Berlin through my fingers as he called 8 warmers crooks and fraudsters.
I’ve never seen anything like it. He’s got cojones.
Apparently the yobs arrested by the police in Copenhagen have been complaining, among other things, of being held in ‘freezing conditions’
Am I the only one to appreciate the irony here…:) 🙂
Carsten Arnholm, Norway (03:04:25):
Thanks for posting that interview – really interesting that her faith in Greenpeace was absolute. Understandible but really sad that they’ve mislead her so badly. It was like seeing a kid learn that Santa didn’t exist.
I never did understand hunger strikes.
I encourage all my enemies to begin one immediately.
Ashtoreth (03:50:55)
That is surprising. For those complaining about warming be also complain about the cold…
Watching these videos, particularly the one with the Greenpeace activist and Monckton, I come to the conclusion that the quantum mechanical model where all probable worlds exist in some dimensions must be correct. I get an eerie feeling that we are at a confluence of probable worlds, and that is why the AGW people are like zombies: our worlds are splitting on different probable paths and we have an iconic representation of them :).
The second feeling is that the bus is rolling down the incline with broken breaks and only a disaster will stop it. Lets hope it is not the next ice age.
I think the most apt comparison is not with the Hitler Youth or even with Mao’s Red Guards (see Predicador (21:51:46)).
The protestors remind me most of the 1968 protesters in Europe. Predominantly spoiled rich college kids who showed their solidarity with the working class by beating up kids whose parents couldn’t afford to give them a college education – so they found work in the police or in the army. And who attacked the ‘fascists’ in industry and government whilst waving Mao’s little red book and chanting for Ho Chi Minh.
When the Russian tanks rolled into Prague the student demonstrators were nowhere to be seen – but some actually backed the Russian action!
Now, of course, Danny Cohn Bendit leads the European Greens. There’s a surprise! Others from the same group went on to be part of the Baader Meinhof Gang.
They were pretty keen on hunger strikes, too!
I expect that at least some of the eco-warriors will also go down the urban terrorism route. We’ve seen the signs already with the ‘direct action’ gang at Stanstead airport, at Kingsnorth Power station and on the coal trains. Expect much more and much worse!
WUWT is our premier investigative source; that reputation was lost a number of years ago by our GlobalCorporateMainStreamMedia. WUWT offers the best education in science and public affairs; a majority of professors in our academies lost that reputation a number of years ago. WUWT provides humor and entertainment; who has done it better? (Hint, hint — subscriptions, much more than “tips”, are in order for this kind of quality.)
An additional plus to WUWT is “getting to know” frequent intelligent commenters — until they seem almost friends. Ron de Haan at 22:42:20 comments on the “nut house”, the behavior of the ‘rabarber’ crowd (I had to look that up – Dutch for “rabble”): “the monkey puppet” (part of planned IPCC policies), “bunch of low lives”, “we are fighting our own governments”, all of which I tend to agree with. But when he adds the following, and when he becomes this positive, I feel real hope for the future:
“Don’t let this intimidate you. The majority of the people don’t want this.
ClimateGate won’t go over and the this winter will be harsh.
AGW is as dead as can be. There are no arguments, only lies.
We are going to deal with this.”
From a BBC report.
“Climate change groups have criticised Danish police for using heavy-handed tactics after they detained 968 people at a rally near the Copenhagen summit.
Mel Evans from Climate Justice Action told the BBC protesters were held for hours in freezing conditions without medical attention, water or toilets. ”
Oh! The irony!
Denying freedom of tthe press? Not evil just wrong? How about wrong and evil!
Bravo to Lord Monckton, not only for his rightful rebuking of the brainless band of spoiled brats from the U.S. at the skeptic webcast in not allowing him to speak and be heard, but especially for the complete verbal spanking he gave them later. The comparison to the Hitler youth was an apt one, and it apparently stung them. Perhaps it could even create a spark somewhere within the deep recesses of their AGW koolaid-addled brains, a mere inkling that they might indeed be wrong and should investigate things a bit more. Well, one can dream, can’t one?
How many weeks ago was it that Piers Corbyn predicted blizzards for the end of the Copenhagen love-in?
Strange how this man, who is regularly dismissed by “mainstream” climate specialists, managed to get it pretty well right ( assuming that the local weather forecasters have now got it right).
Disgusting.
History does repeat itself. Lord Monckton is correct.
These people in Copenhagen are simply “useful idiots.” They haven’t a clue about how they are being manipulated. This has everything to do with money and the corporate state, and has very little to do with climate.
Saw a bit on Sky News last nite showing world wide reaction to Copenhagen.
First Anna Botting in India condescendingly complains that most people in India have not been educated properly about Climate Change then interviews 2 English educated Indian brothers in the street who of course are fully on board her agenda but nevertheless say India’s priority must be to fight poverty not global warming.
She makes no attempt to interview anyone else in the crowd behind and finishes with a comment about how the local state has suffered a drought this year because of Global Warming. ( As if India has never suffered droughts before)
Then across to USA where it is reported a poll finds only 35% believe in AGW. Why are so many unconvinced asks the reporter? Instead of asking these people they interview 3 warmists.
First says it is because of Big Oil funded propaganda.
Second basically says it is down to a lack of intelligence.
Third says they are mainly fundamentalists who don’t believe in evolution either.
Sky News seems little better than BBC for unbiased reporting.
I meant what I said and I said what I meant, Lord Monckton’s truthful 100 percent.
Monkton is my new hero. Oh my goodness the look on the faces of those hitler youths. I bet they have never actually been confronted like that in their life, at least in real life (not on an anonymous message board). It was thrilling. And I love the kid’s comment that for his whole life of 20 years that the science has been settled! Classic.. kid, go back the states, pick up a book or two, and base your life on something worthwhile!
A thought has occurred to me about conspiracy. Excuse my paranoia. If the temperature trends are being adjusted upwards through homogenisation, is it possible that once the IPPC has its way and we live in a carbon free society, the adjustments will become a cooling trend?
Bruce Cobb (05:05:00) :
“The comparison to the Hitler youth was an apt one, and it apparently stung them.”
Yes indeed, perfectly apt. For those who think the label too harsh, it is important to remember, he did not call them “Nazis”. Lord Monckton knew very well what he said and why he said it.
The Hitler youth were largely innocent young people who were brainwashed by the government of the Nazis. They did not carry out the crimes of their parents and most carried the guilt and shame into their old age. They could be described as victims – victims of propaganda, deceit and betrayal.
I think the following video sheds some interesting light on this. AGW enthusiasts have gotten to the point where the truth really matters not much. The consequence of AGW are so onerous in their belief system, that they believe that they have to act, for the good of us all.
I would guess that we are not far away from some of them believing that any and all acts are justified in preventing Armageddon.
Guess who’s coming to Denmark?
This should be fun to watch.
Iranian Prime Minister Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe plan to address negotiators at international climate talks in Copenhagen next week.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30511.html
What a freak show.
“in the sustainable future we will be happier than today, have more time for family, community, and personal relationships.”
In the unsustainable future(no energy=no sustainability) world population will be curbed. Families will be broken so you can be a super prole, a total robot.
Anthony its a pain watching these videos. The so called environmentalists, are the typical low IQ brutes that jumped on every cool bandwagon in history. They were the Nazi youth that beat up Jews, the union thugs, religious fanatics, etc…
What we are watching, has happened before. These people lack common sense. They don’t understand what they are supporting, they just march on like drones, chanting words put into their heads.
It makes me so angry when I see mobs behaving like that, pretending to be self-righteous.
Paul J (05:34:38) :
The constant playing the man not the ball is really quite eye-opening for me. I haven’t seen anything that has made me more likely to believe the AGW argument.
I’ve read an awful lot and whenever the proponents are quizzed, they go straight into ad hom attacks, change the subject, play the victim, assert that there is no need for a debate as the science is ‘settled’/peer-reviewed.
It all makes me more sceptical as there are no facts, just lots of bluster. No wonder the average man in the street can see through them without a speck of technical knowledge.
R Dunn (04:14:22) : “I never did understand hunger strikes.
I encourage all my enemies to begin one immediately.”
Yes, one never wins by dying for their cause, one wins by their enemies dying for their cause.
Kookenhagen.
Copenhagen is the stage for the politics of cultural despair. Western culture has been tried and found guilty by its own affluent, well-educated elite. The crowd outside wants to burn down the whole thing. The leaders inside manage a political order they no longer believe in (it’s a destroyer of worlds, after all), but seem too timid or cynical to do much of anything. Their lack of courage is the best hope we’ve got.
See “Copenhagen and the politics of cultural despair”:
From what I can see the Hitler Youth don’t seem to care that they are the Hitler Youth, they just don’t like being called it.
Did we really expect anything less? Copenhagen is a cross between a Nuremburg rally and a religious revival tent.
If it weren’t for WUWT we wouldn’t know about most of these shannanigans. As usual, the mainstream media has not covered any of this except for the riots. At least the British media did cover the fact that the Archbishop of Canterbury arrived to give the benediction to the assembled faithful. I’m expecting Elmer Gantry to turn up soon.
If the APGW faithful saw this report on Satellite temperature indicating cooling now in the net few decades, they’d be after the authors like the hounds of Hell:
http://www.ncasi.org/publications/Detail.aspx?id=3230
These idiot protestors are probably not old enough or knowledgeable enough to remember the jackbooted Nazis who intimidated shopkeepers in Berlin in the 1930s and painted “Juden rein” on the shop windows of their Jewish owners.
Well, at least the Greenshirts aren’t beating anyone up … yet.
As a democratist I’m always ready to switch instantly from debate and voting mode (the democratist model) into physical mode (the institutional dictatorship model). As a democratist I’ve made it my business to be expert in both modes. There will always be dictators and dictatorships getting in the way of democratism and democratists. Democratists always win as long as they never compromise with diktats, dictators and dictatorships.
Keep it simple. Win. Every time. I do. It’s easy.
I give Monckton an A+ for correctly understanding the science and another A+ for having the guts to search out these hooligans and tell them exactly what they are. I wish he was an American so he could run for president.
“samspade10 (06:04:17) :
It makes me so angry when I see mobs behaving like that, pretending to be self-righteous.”
Thats just the conference members and the scientists, (like Dr Watson)
You should see the stampeding protestors outside…
Has anyone started to sell action figures yet, thought it would be perfect for christmas..
Copenhagen . . . . Danish for Gong Show.
In spades it seems. With really big gongs.
Let em fast. A 30 day fast will cure schizophrenia and probably other mental illness besides.
I suspect they might cheat though. Fasting means only water.
My god people are stupid.
As we say on a populair shock-blog in the Netherlands.
Lord Monckton +1
Little creepy green nazi youths -1
Lord Monckton is class of its own, i bet that at least some of those youths starting to have doubts, because they where bunnies caught in the headlights of a oncomming bus called “Truth” driven by Lord Monckton.
Its al fun and games for them by the looks of it, and then there came Lord Monckton to poke at some eyes.
Credits to Jim in above comment, for coining an appropriate and descriptive word we will remember when we look back; as a perfect summary of the whole sorry saga of COP15:
Kookenhagen.
Maybe not quite at the level of ”ClimateGate”, but not bad. . . .
“A hunger strike for climate justice?” How incredibly lame. What do they think they are accomplishing, getting people like me on their side so that they don’t suffer, hurt themselves of die of hunger?
@ Tom Jones
Yeah…I’ve heard this argument on several occasions at my own institution (Stony Brook). My response is that the risk in column B is no different (probabilistically) than the risk of the planet naturally oscillating back into an ice age without our intervention, so there’s really no risk…whereas climate change action (column A) gives you 100% risk of economically destructive policies that mark the end of democratic free trade.
In other words, his logic fails because he isn’t an economist and has therefore not mastered the concept of MARGINAL VALUE and MARGINAL RISK. A stock analyst (or, in my case, a sabermetrician – a goofy word for someone who studies baseball statistics) immediately asks…how does the risk we’re gambling with compare to other risks? The answer in this case is that even if AGW is right (by chance…the science hasn’t revealed it to be so), the odds of the catastrophic solution verifying are so low that they compare marginally to the odds of those natural catastrophies happening in a non-AGW world even after policy intervention occurs….making taking that risk meaningless…making column B the correct decision.
Lord Monckton is made of the stuff that the British used to be like, now we pin our hopes on pseudo-Marxists like David “Cast Iron Guarantee for a Vote on the EU Constitution” Cameron (aka Liar) and Gordon “Iam clearly mentally ill- here is another 1.5 billion” Brown.
Climate Justice Fasting!!!?????
OK. I’m floored.
Almost literally.
They fancy themselves martyrs.
You have to acknowledge that pious glow on their wan cheeks.
The mantra about sustainability, leisure time in nature, more time frolicking with family, joy and love connecting us more to mother nature . . . .
Dear God. What do they not get about the brutal reality of nature – toothed and clawed? What do they not get about warm weather and agriculture and petroleum based fertilizer and cheap abundant energy from fossil fuel that makes their cushy little pious-driven lives possible?
Zombies. And they’re coming for our prosperity.
We are watching: no laughter, no reasoning, no arguments, no facts, no measurements, certainly no peer review, no dialogue, but a form of mass behaviour very similar to religion. And this is just the outside. The inside, and climategate is such a signal, is a well orchestrated goal oriented movement with a chilling character.
Methow Ken (07:23:58) :
Credits to Jim in above comment, for coining an appropriate and descriptive word we will remember when we look back; as a perfect summary of the whole sorry saga of COP15:
Kookenhagen.
Maybe not quite at the level of ”ClimateGate”, but not bad. . . .
I agree – it has a definite ring to it. I called it “hokumhagen” because the whole thing is a bunch of pretentious nonsense based on pure bunkum, but kookenhagen is catchier.
Tom Jones (05:58:39) :You have not considered the idea that YOU are suffering a severe form of suggestion and with you a lot of poor “first world” “Green-go´s” by an ambitious elite with an enourmous thirst for power.
What will in the end happend?. As seen from the third world, resting calmly and relaxed under the sun, you are going rapidly to the disappearence of your cherished “first world”and your magnificent “culture” which has dangeorously abandoned common sense and any sense of reality.
You are young enough to see it, but don´t take it too emotionally cause you won´t even see it. You know, when kids like you get identified with a “cause” like this they end being killed and rotten in an unnamed battle field, and that is what history shows. THIS IS ALL WHAT USUALLY HAPENDS BEFORE A WAR. BE CAREFUL.
I just remembered that “Hokumhagen” was also a play on their word “Hopenhagen”.
Still, Kookenhagen could definitely catch on. It gets my vote.
Cathy (07:51:32) :Really!…This is Copenhagen´s “Thriller” but these are the future deaths of a near war.
Tom Jones,
I see that video link is the same old insurance policy argument. The consequence of doing nothing if AGW is real is “worse hurricanes, droughts that destroy the US and Russia, sea level rises tens of metres, billions of refuges, mass starvation. . . ”
All very nasty, and all we have to do to prevent it is “spread the word” to force governments to take action. However, all studies show that all these planned emission cuts will do almost nothing to reduce CO2 levels but will slow economic growth and prosperity. In order to actually reduce C02 levels already in the atmosphere, you would need to shut down the worlds economies, which if he was honest, would be worse than the “global depression” he mentioned. Far, far worse.
Furthermore the thermageddon he described is not the only possible outcome if AGW is right. It is in fact far more extreme than any extremist, apart from Gore has countenanced. More likely would be a world a few degrees warmer, a bit wetter, more floods perhaps, but generally not that bad a deal.
The fact that he has put this argument together shows that he is totally scientifically clueless. As for claiming that nobody can find a flaw in his argument, one can only ask who he tested it against? Al Gore or James Hansen? Certainly not any rational person.
Maybe Anthony should invite him to test it with the readers of WUWT.
I think it’s time for someone knowledgeable to post on the consequences of Global Cooling. Suppose we are on the edge of one of those sawtoothed patterns and the sun’s move into low activity starts us down the slope to a new Ice Age?
Large areas of the earth would become uninhabitable. Hundreds of millions of people would need to move to the regions +/-40 degrees from the equator. Cities as far south as New York might have to be abandoned and entirely new cities constructed farther south. The buildings would need to be very tall to make maximum use of the reduced area. More people might have to move to these cities as the suburbs are turned back into farmland. Existing farm belts would have to move south, and it might be necessary to enclose crop regions in enormous greenhouses to avoid the specter of millions starving to death. Perhaps floating islands would be constructed to provide new areas to grow crops or for living space. The Third World would have to get a grip on its overpopulation problem. No doubt there would be wars over territory. Still, it would be a period of tremendous technological innovation as people work to adapt to the new reality.
I’m just speculating. I’d like to hear from someone in the know. It seems to me that the minor inconveniences and great benefits of global warming are not what we need to think about. Just the opposite.
obruinsma (08:19:47)
Perhaps this is really the inauguration of the First Church of Climate Change
Phil Jones, Michael Mann et al as the Apostles, Al Gore as God, and Hansen as the Jesus figure. The politicians at the conference are the lay ministers, and the crowds are the devoted followers.
OK, last time – my wife suggested “Hokumkookenhagen”, which is a mouthful, but is lots of fun.
John A (22:04:14) :
If I was in Copenhagen, I’d be handing out hamburgers and pizza slices in front of the Climate justice Fasters…
OK i now need to clean my screen made the mistake of eating breakfast and reading 🙂
Still don’t like the comment “Hitler Youth” name calling like “denier” is not a road to emulate. I can understand how you could say that in the heat of the moment tho when confroned like that. However, such tactics are all too common.
Img (08:50:12) One need only study history to clearly see what effect cold has on humans who are unprepared (or even prepared). Warmer is better. In my estimation we ( humanity) are preparing for the wrong eventuality. Maurice Strong’s cabal would like to reduce human population and cold would do just that to those who couldn’t pay for the energy to keep warm and fed. Their cry of “do it for the children” makes absolutely no sense. Economic hardship is historically hardest on the children.
may go viral’
Monckton/ “Hitler Youth”
Monckton answers “Hitler Youth” questions
All carbon footprinters in Copenhagen will start to realize what the value is of a real footprint will be when the projected blizzards start to hit copenhagen this coming friday , it will cost a lot of emission rights to keep the furnaces blazing over there , at leat the christmas trees outside will be degreened
Quote:
“One of the costs of affluent civilization is the burden of sillivization, with old and bitter twenty-something protesters demanding that someone do something to fix anything that enters their momentary flashes of semi-conscious awareness.”
When I was a college student in the 1970’s, some of the 40+ folk referred to us youngsters as “embryos”. As I aged, I came to understand what they meant.
photon without a Higgs (09:51:54) :
Hitler youth were a local movement to Europe. The present generation of young people are growing up in a culture (both scientific and cultural) that has become thin and weak. They think they are free but are afraid to think independently. They think in terms of answers and not in terms of questions, and whats worse, in terms of others people’s answers, usually those of government and popular media. This fraud is global, and not merely european.
Youth were made a cult of back then as they were the most gullible. Its galling that the same is happening now under an anonymous and disparate organisation/series of organisations that want to flatter and manipulate youth today (Bildenberg/club of Rome?)
I seriously believe that the difference is – Hitler Youth were committed but the manipulators were too. This time, the extremists are not so parallel. Those who want this political action are cynical and brazen misanthropes who want to tyrannise people, including those who support them. Its more like Stalin or Mao youth
PS. I’m not supporting Monckton, but the similarities are quite frightening. Hitler youth thought civilisation was at an end and that they would save it. This lot at Copenhagen have been manipulated into the same farrago of nonsense.
Interesting exchange; Thanks for posting it.
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Wow, what a motley crew (CRU). Hired goons, useful idiots, and the usual pack of drunks and rock throwers. Sad, really. And I have to say that those “climate fasters” seem to look rather healthy, considering that they claim to have been starving themselves for over a month. Perhaps their fast means one less latte per day. ;->
Leon Brozyna (22:04:40) :
One of the costs of affluent civilization is the burden of sillivization, with old and bitter twenty-something protesters demanding that someone do something to fix anything that enters their momentary flashes of semi-conscious awareness.
I believe this is a symptom of an existentialist search for meaning by lost members of affluent societies. Extreme narcissism as well.
They are lost, their lives feel meaningless and they believe the world revolves around them. It’s easy for them to fall for something that seems to give a purpose to their lives.
@ Tom Jones (05:58:39) :
I have seen that video before, and I believe in fact he most certainly is delusional. I got a good chuckle from his logic (or lack thereof).
This is another good example of the flawed belief system that is taking hold with AGW believers.
While the Associated Press (AP) states that there were approx. 40,000 protestors in the streets of Copanhagen , the spokemen for the rally said there were 100,000 .
While the AP stated that the protestors were demanding action at Copanhagen for Climate Change reform , The AP didn’t mention that the protest was Anti-Anthropological Global Warming .
While the AP stated that 600 protestors were arrested due in part of protestors throwing rocks and fireworks , breaking windows , the cameras shown the arrests , but the AP failed to show broken glass , protestors throwing rocks , fireworks going off , protestors throwing fireworks .
While the AP taped protestors marching on the streets of Copenhagen with their banners and signs , the few signs demanding Climate Reform were few compared to banners and signs stating ClimateGate , Global Warming Hoax .
While the AP continues to practice the art of Mis-information and Dis-information to the public , they failed to show the skeptics of Man-Made Global Warming inside confronting the pro- Made Made Global Warming proponents .
In the Associated Press Statement of News Vaules and Principles :
” . . . But always and in all media, we insist on the highest standards of integrity and ethical behavior when we gather and deliver the news . . . ”
” . . . That means we abhor inaccuracies, carelessness, bias or distortions . . . ”
” . . . It means we avoid behavior or activities that create a conflict of interest and compromise our ability to report the news fairly and accurately, uninfluenced by any person or action . . . ”
” . . . However, AP employees must avoid behavior or activities – political, social or financial – that create a conflict of interest or compromise our ability to report the news fairly and accurately, uninfluenced by any person or action . . . ”
Well , the Statement of News Vaules and Principles looks good on paper anyways .
Simply Amazing !
Perhaps we could do with a few more hunger strikers. When they are dead they will not breathe out that deadly CO2
Anthony — is the picture of the vortex from actual Danish waters? Are these common there? I can see that the tides moving in and out of the Baltic through these narrow waters could create a lot of turbulence.
One hears stories of whirlpools, but it’s hard to imagine where one would actually occur.
Monckton is absolutely right about Hilter Youth. Its not about the person, like that Jewish kid thought, its about what you do and whom you say you are representing.
The WA found it out the hard way in the “night of the long knives” that they where no longer needed and served their purpose, to aid in installing a new regime in Germany by a reign of terror and terrorism.
This could very well happen to those kids as well, they will be put on the sideline, their “night of the lettuces” so to speak because they as well become a threath to the political leaders and climate-scientist alike who have no desire in unruly and uncontrolable factions within their ranks.
Those kids should really think about their actions and strategies in the comming years, because it might well be that it is going to be used against them once they become undesirable.
Well the girl said she was only drinking water. Let’s hope it was not contaminated water, the lot of many of today’s starving poor.
The combination of ignorance and fear does not produce good results.
Lord Monckton/Hitler Youth: calling a spade a spade. Unfortunately, it also gave the lefties a sidetrack to latch onto to divert the discussion from the real topic of AGW, of which they have no clue (especially the young ones) other than the religious propaganda they repeat robotically.
I agree with the comment of Lord M. I had spent 30 years living in a country where I’d learned first hand what these “activists” can do when given real, absolute (they always push for absolute) power, backed by a religion-like, propaganda-backed ideology. I see this as a latest push by the Big Left for power superceeding the sovereign countries’ governments. Once that’s done, there would be no way to take that power back without major bloodshed.
I don’t think Monckton is doing himself or his cause any favors by picking on these deluded young college students. They are naive and foolish, but they are not like the Hitler Youth, nor are they likely to be. He should have some pity on them – they have been systematically brainwashed by an education system which has been designed to brainwash them. He would have done better to patiently and politely explain to them where they are in error.
The most disgusting thing I saw in these various videos was Desmond Tutu crowing (complete with a phony stage cackle) about how the rich nations (like Denmark, for example) would not escape without paying. (Bishop) Desmond Tutu presumably has some responsibility for the moral climate of his eclesiastical jurisdiction, South Africa, a nation which is now the murder and rape capitol of the world. That he is not speaks volumes about him. He is just another member of this Copenhagen extortion racket.
How nice to have the option of going on a hunger strike…
I found the AP (third) video to be curious.
The focus was that there was this big protest, with people getting arrested in droves, and stuff. So I asked myself, “What, precisely, are they protesting about?”
After re-watching several times, all I could discern was that the protesters had a sort of vague message of “Climate Action Now” – no mention of what specific action they are actually for, or which specific behaviors on the part of others that they are against.
If anything, the sound bite of Archbishop Tutu tells what the real motivations are – he laughs at anyone who thinks the “rich” are going to “escape”.
It’s suspicious that the AP does not ask the protestors what they’re after, but then supplies a quote from one speaker (who does not necessarily represent them). They’re basically using the protest to push their OWN class warfare agenda.
Ironically, they also paint the picture that the eco-fascists are “victims” of govt oppression (dispite their own reporting that the protest was starting to get violent!). This, at the very conference where govts around the world – including this Danish one – are working to provide just the sort of eco-tyranny they’re looking for!
The AP has no shame.
Bishop Desmond Tutu tells it like it is at the end of the last video: “…for those who think that the rich are going to escape…”
Ghosts of Marx and Lenin.
This is no longer about Climate Change. It is about setting up a mechanism to transfer money from rich to poor countires.
Our leaders have to stop pretending, playing the image game, and make sure this whole charade fails. But I am not holding my breath. With the likes of Obama and Sarkozy getting into the melee next week, a crazy deal could happen.
“LB (22:52:58) :
Well, Lord Monckton has earnt his peerage in my view.”
Actually Viscount Monckton earned his the old-fashioned way- he inherited it.
Which is a *good* thing. 🙂
Hangtime55 (11:32:23) : “… The AP didn’t mention that the protest was Anti-Anthropological Global Warming .”
Wow. That’s even worse! They make an anti-AGW protest sound like some proletariat uprising of alarmists being suppressed by the evil capitalist govt!?!
That’s amazing – but not surprising, I’m afraid.
Gee – I can’t imagine Tutu was one of AFP’s featured speakers…
This could very well lead to the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy which talks about the one world government and new world order predicted over 2000 years ago. This event could be that very event that leads to that considering all the world leaders converging together on this event.
Like it or not you can’t stop the wheels of prophecy from turning, there will be a one world government created at some point and this could be the event that does it. If Bible prophecy says it will happen it will, the wheels will not be stopped.
If this event brings about the one world government and new world order, it could set a huge stage for the antichrist’s rise to power over the planet and thus possibly lead to the 2nd coming of Jesus in our lifetime, so it may be time to buckle up, as it seems more evident we are seeing the endgame events of this world in its present state and the final prophetic timeline moving foward.
I’m just putting this into perspective regarding what’s according to current events and what’s according to religion, I’m not trying to offend anyone 🙂
Martin B (12:35:48)
hitler youth were deluded by the propaganda machine. It tells them to do things in the name of an ideal that they would abhor in the light of reason. Ambitious politicians ALWAYS go for the naive and foolish (gullible) since they will be the most vociferous and intolerant, and bloody minded. Thats how I see this present youth cult. The naive being manipulated by the cynical.
In the halls of the conference, its realpolitik and cynical deals. Outside its all about the climate – which is what politicians are telling protestors it is all about.
they’re being arrested and protested by what the loonies in government are frightening them about. Ironic isn’t it?
Quote: “I think it’s time for someone knowledgeable to post on the consequences of Global Cooling. Suppose we are on the edge of one of those sawtoothed patterns and the sun’s move into low activity starts us down the slope to a new Ice Age?”
While I cannot comment on the geographical and geopolitical effects of a new ice age, as an engineer I can relate that from an energy usage standpoint, that “too warm” is the lesser of two evils over “too cold”. The reason for this is due to the First and Second Law of Thermodynamics. Lets take the case of a closed but non-adiabatic vessel, where electricity is used as an energy source for either joule heating or to refrigerate (i.e. air conditioning). Beginning with an isothermal state, it requires approximately 4 times as much energy to raise (heat) the vessel 10 degrees above the ambient temperature of the system surrounding the vessel (i.e. the great outdoors) as it does to cool the vessel 10 degrees below the ambient temperature of the system surrounding the vessel. This ratio is mainly a function of the efficiency (EER) of the current state of the art refrigeration equipment. While an electrical heat pump system for heating is an alternative to electrical joule heating, and does offer efficiencies approaching that of refrigeration. If you can remember the 1987 story about the Bakker’s “air conditioned (sic) dog house”, a heat pump is just refrigeration operating in reverse. Such systems are very expensive to install, have high maintenance costs, and have limitations in regards to the ability to function efficiently when the temperature gradient existing between the vessel and the surrounding exceeds a certain value. (Most heat pump systems switch to exclusively electrical joule heating when outdoor temperatures drop below +32 deg F) Thus heat pumps are not the predominant type of heating system used throughout the world for these reasons.
I am confident that further advances will be made in the near future in the efficiency of refrigeration equipment, pushing the energy requirement ratio of heating to cooling much higher than the present 4:1. However, the efficiency (EER) of refrigeration equipment can never reach infinity, as this would violate the Second Law. (An air conditioner that has an EER of infinity would require NO electricity to operate, thus would be the theoretically impossible “perpetual motion” machine that also performs work). The efficiency of joule heating equipment is already approaching 99% (and the ratio is still 4:1), thus further advances in the efficiency of heating equipment will have minuscule effect on the ratio.
As regards internal combustion engines, lower ambient temperatures cause loss of engine efficiency, which results in lower fuel economy. You can verify this yourself with your automobile by collecting some data. Log your vehicle miles vs. fuel consumption to calculate mpg (or kmpl) during the coldest period of the year, then do the same during the warmest period of the year. You will be surprised at the difference, which I’ve found to be as much as 20% for my vehicle.
While I do not possess any data that expresses the current ratio of heating joules to cooling joules expended by equipment throughout the world, any average global temperature decrease will certainly cause joules consumed by heating equipment to increase at a much faster rate than the corresponding decrease in joules consumed by refrigeration equipment.
I sincerely hope that the information I have presented above will put another chink in the armor of the AGW crowd. Keep in mind, that we are dealing with a group of people that are a mixture of the ill-informed and oftentimes irrational, led by the unethical steeped in political megalomania. If we continue to see declines in global temperatures (that is if they abandon trying to “hide the decline”), they could turn on a dime and become the AGC crowd.
I think it safe to completely discount the Anorexics for Fascism, but the Gore Youth are truly scary. See:
http://tinyurl.com/lfmdvd
[funny, too off topic ~ ctm]
the skeptics and the protesters are making this conference interesting. Inside, a bunch of bureaucrats quacking over how to divide the new global tax. Outside, high quality street theater.
Here is the BBC 5 day forecast for Copenhagen:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/35?&search=copenhagen&itemsPerPage=10®ion=world
It’s not too bad at the moment, but should be quite cold by the end of the week.
The fast for climate justice reminds me of children holding their breath until they get their way.
Jimmy Haigh (12:38:07) :
How nice to have the option of going on a hunger strike…
——————————–
Interesting. Fasting that could bring starvation. How ironic.
I wonder what color they will be using for the shirts. Hitler started with brown shirts. Green perhaps? I can see a pattern. Hitler temporarily solved Germany’s economic mess using similar tactics.
However some may view the Hitler Youth label as apt it has to be qualified.
If I, or you perhaps, had been exposed to, and thus abused by Teachers and Television, tales of terror and doom then would we be marching with them?
Of course we would! Shower a child with love and the world will become a better place. Scare a child and you’ll get a survivor who will either stay as your obedient slave or become your most implacable opponent!
Most of today’s young activists are truly scared to death. If they didn’t fight back against that, I would be far more concerned.
I’m somewhat less concerned about the fate of the adults, however qualified, who lied to them!
Sow the wind- benefit or suffer- it’s your choice.
As a postscript, if you’re worried about Polar Bears then forget about sending money to someone who’ll plant a tree in a forest to protect them!
Just stop the bloke whose shooting them.
Not drilling those pesky critturs with a plumbian pellet contributes $0 to VP Gore but most of my pelted-pals are totally relaxed about that.
I was thinking …’krookenhagen’.
Richard Saumarez (05:50:44) :
A thought has occurred to me about conspiracy. Excuse my paranoia. If the temperature trends are being adjusted upwards through homogenisation, is it possible that once the IPPC has its way and we live in a carbon free society, the adjustments will become a cooling trend?
I also have wondered about this, and about whether they will claim that any natural cooling is due to their efforts.
@ royfomr (14:51:14):
A problem with the polar bears is the conflicting messages over the years.
Long ago the “animal rights” people decried the clubbing of baby seals for fur. We need more seals!
Now we must save polar bears, which eat the seals. These enormous creatures who can decapitate with one swipe, notice how even the greenest of film crews still bring along someone with a rifle, must be saved!
Yet more polar bears means less seals, and they must still be worried about the seals since they use their cute little faces in their fundraising efforts. What ever should they do?!
Well with a little more global warming, we’ll have more open and warmer Arctic seas, and more fish for the seals thus more seals, and more seals for the bears so more bears…
Somewhere a green activist’s head just exploded.
Re: Hitler Youth anybody near a good library might take a peak at this volume:
First page can be seen: here.
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Another what I think might make a good read re: Hitler Youth
Baldur von Schirach and the Hitler Youth Revolution (docstoc.com)
And a web page on: Hitler Youth: History
Brief excerpt (to whet the curiosity):
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What a joke this conferance! One big hippy drum circle. Hope you all know global warming is based on falsified data, and in fact it is cooling down a bit. The actual agenda is taxes on CO2. That you will be paying to “the new world order”. What did you think? That they would present themselves as extreme right? Or as industry or bankers? Has any of you really read “The Copenhagen Climate Change Treaty Draft”? http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2009/awglca7/eng/inf02.pdf
Melanie Phillips has another fine article in the Spectator: click
Oh, the ignorance of youth! this devotion to being hip… It will damage us all. Hitler Youth or Mao’s Red Guard are apt pseudonyms! My child will get a good old fashioned “what for” if he even thinks like these mental deficients.
If I had 5 minutes with each of the major players, I’d serve them up a nice knuckle sandwich. I’m tired of Holdren, Jones, Briffa, Schneider, der Leader, and those loons I just saw on The People Speak.
Schneider won’t answer questions about the e-mails. Will he answer questions about his global cooling activism and how that became global warming? What are his connections to Holdren, Erlich, and Margaret Mead?
Did you know he told Discover Magazine in Oct 1989 that “To capture the public
imagination, we have to offer up some scary scenarios, make simplified dramatic statements and little mention of any doubts one might have. Each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective, and being honest.”
They think they want a revolution, but it won’t be the one they expected. They make me sick and disgusted.
Who are these morons that even think that we can have an effect on climate? I don’t believe we’ve had a measurable effect on climate. To think that we can do something to alter the course of natural climate variation on a global or even regional scale is hubris and junk science.
They’re imagining some sick alternate reality and trying to get the world to play joust the windmill with them. Unfortunately, it will come at the cost of our wealth and freedom.
[Anyone remember the Police song “Vicar in a Tutu”? Were they mocking Desmond Tutu?]
I hope to see Lord Monckton and others like him debating loons like this way more often.
Please pass the popcorn (and a few hundred 7.62×39 when this all deteriorates).
Interesting find Mike …
More than just a couple of those faces (like the hairy-faced Ben Wessel for instance, who is also a co-founder of the Green Finger Project) are FAMILIAR from the Monckton video !
Actual site URL is:
sustainus.org
Intro text says:
.
.
@ Peter (14:30:35) :
Hitler did not much to boost the economy other than gearing it up for war. And both he and the economists at the time knew that it would not last unless new resources would brought into the German economy. They knew that they had only one shot at it, and there was a good chance that it would fail because the German economy was not that large compared to their opponents. After 12 years and at huge costs, both material and in human costs it was all over, and for what?
Modern appliances and cheap energy and easily available food have created plenty of time for family. These families can go on holidays together and explore the whole world. They also have time to pursue spirituality, yoga, and see therapists. Both sexes work so relationships have shifted from necessity to the so-called “being needs”; empathy, warmth, and subtleties and dynamics of relating. All this freedom has made people have to learn to communicate more.
A very old couple who’d been together many many years was asked by some youngsters what their secret was for relationships. They replied, “in our day we didn’t have relationships”.
The fascists were the progressives of their time. Before their bloodlust became widely known, Hitler and Mussolini were widely admired by intellectuals throughout Europe and the USA.
Mandatory public education using a state approved curriculum was very important. The fascists worked hard to replace the family and traditional religion with the party and the state.
To quote Rodney Dangerfield:
“Now I know why tigers eat their young!”
Monckton for PM!
I don’t think he’d be intimidated by Labour back-benchers.
If India wants to seriously fight poverty, it has to ban Hinduism and its caste system, which is the sole cause of poverty in India – ask the Dalit, ask the Christians and the Buddhists how they are forced into the most debased poverty by the Brahmin and their allied lesser castes.
Watching the vid of Lord Monckton (not ‘sir’, ‘m’lord’) he is having a rational data-based discussion with the booth staff, and then a cult leader notices this and comes in and tries to discredit him and shut him up. Just like having a discussion with one of the non-Trinitarian cults. As soon as you start making headway, the leader intervenes.
At which point the Viscount of Monckton doesn’t do so well, and gets into challenging rather than continuing in data. Challenging at a booth manned by a small number of college students on break (possibly for extra credit) isn’t likely to be terribly effective.
BTW, I do believe he is quite wrong about biofuels. America no longer feeds the world, it doesn’t need to, but we grow a great deal more corn than we used to, on basically the same acres (with some reduction in bean acres, but again, not of human food crops). 6-8% of that one non-food crop is turned into ethanol, leaving high-quality feed behind as a by-product.
Good observation that the youth are searching for meaning, but within the narrow bounds of harshly-enforced ‘political correctness’ in the universities. They aren’t allowed really, to explore Christianity (for example), or any other metaphysic that doesn’t conform to the beliefs of the powers within the faculty.
Adam, Christ will return when the Father is good and ready. We Christians have a *really* bad track record of predicting when. Even though we were taught not to even try, because we couldn’t, back at the beginning of the New Covenant.
Poor kids are pawns in a very big game. If they only understood that they would be so mad. I like this verse about suppressing the truth. Seems rather relevant.
Romans 1:18-25 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
It might be useful to realize that the disruption of Monckton’s meeting by SustainUS was planned in advance, possibly months in advance. A cadre of brainwashed youth were recruited, paid, and flown over to Copenhagen for the express purpose of committing acts of civil disobedience.
They weren’t delegates. They didn’t just happen upon Monckton’s lecture; they weren’t wandering around Frozenhagen and bopped in to get warm. The whole event was funded and orchestrated, and not by the children – they were pawns in this Orwellian drama, like the sheep in Animal Farm.
Check out Richard North’s series of exposes on Rajendra Pachauri.
http://www.eureferendum.blogspot.com/
@george S. (19:56:23) :
Okay…I confused the Police’s Canary in a Coalmine with the Smith’s Vicar in a Tutu.
After watching those poor misguided souls in the Climate Justice Fast! Youtube clip, I am again reminded of that silly oxymoron ‘stop climate change’.
Afterall, is not change inevitable?
Their wasted youth and energy would be better served pursuing more worthy causes … like actual starvation in poor countries.