Add this to the United State’s Senate failure to even address the cap and trade issue, and it appears that carbon trading is losing the financial and political luster it once had. Now Australia’s ETS scheme is delayed in their senate with little hope of revival.
This says it pretty well at ABC News:
Senate kills off emissions trade laws
The Associated Press says:
Australia’s Parliament defeats global warming bill
Australia’s Parliament defeated legislation to set up a greenhouse gas emissions trading system on Wednesday, throwing a central plank of the government’s plans to combat global warming into disarray.
…
The 41-33 vote followed a tumultuous debate in which the conservative main opposition party at first agreed to support a version of the government’s bill, then dramatically dumped its leader and switched sides after bitter divisions erupted within the party.
From the Australian:
KEVIN Rudd has lost his bid to deliver an emissions trading scheme in Australia before talks in Copenhagen but won an early election trigger after the Senate formally rejected the laws again today.
Just two Liberal senators broke ranks with a clear mandate among Coalition MPs to delay an ETS and voted with Labor on an emissions trading scheme
Deputy Senate leader Eric Abetz declared: “The CPRS is dead. And no amount of CPR can revive it”
Herald Sun columnist Andrew Bolt writes:
Rudd’s great tax on everything is defeated
How close was that bullet? A mad new tax is voted down, thanks only to Tony Abbott’s one-vote win over Malcolm Turnbull yesterday…
Maybe it had something to do with this:
“We have heard from the Independent Pricing Regulator in NSW just yesterday that this ETS would add 30 per cent to the people of NSW’s power bills …
And as Bolt points out to WUWT a couple of days ago, Climategate figured in as well:
Rudd’s belief that man is heating the world is based almost entirely on the reports of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
But thousands of emails uncovered in this month’s Climategate scandal show that the scientists most responsible for those reports did not just doctor data, destroy awkward evidence, and censor sceptical scientists.
They also show some of them privately admitting that the world seems not to be heating as they (and Rudd) predicted.
“Where the heck is global warming?” raged Kevin Trenberth, an IPCC lead author, to another Climategate scientist: “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.”
Fair Dinkum.
I was listening to the senate and Sen Troeth actually quoted that the MWP was localised and it was cold in other parts of the world.
I assume she was convinced by Micheal Mann’s lastest paper.
Bonzer!
O’Reilly’s a jackass. “So it’s all just a con?”
Stossell (sp?): “Not all of it” (just 90%).
Maybe it had something to do with this:
is that 404 error deliberate and subtle irony?
REPLY: Fixed thanks -A
Thank GOD FOR DEMOCRACY in Australia, I thought the Nazi party was in charge!!!
Well, the idea that the medieval warm period only happened where people were taking notes is something found all through the AGW camp. All the interesting bits seem to happen where or when nobody happens to be looking.
It’s the old “refrigerator door light” version of science and history.
The tide has turned, the point has tipped.
“Climate Change Minister Penny Wong said the Government would not give up on the ETS and accused the Coalition of trying to spook voters.
‘When you cannot fight the argument you run a scare campaign’, she said.”
BWAHAHAHAHA! Now that is what I call bizarre!
404 errors are usually caused by a router that has overheated due to anthropogenic global warming. I’d provide a graph linking CO2 levels and 404 errors, which should certainly correlate, but unfortunately my new hard drive didn’t have as much space for raw data as my old hard drive (because I’m moving backwards through time, like the UEA), so I threw it away.
By the way, does anyone else thing UEA will come to stand for “Undermining Environmental Alarmism?”
Whoohoo! Well done the Aussies on WUWT for your letter campaign to your MPs. I hope this has some effect in Canada too – a glimmer of hope for all of us in the ROTW! Please everybody shower your reps, senators and MPs with intelligent letters about what’s going on!
Note on Australian Politics,
In Australia the Liberal Party is a conservative right-wing party (though more libertarian on social issues) and the Australian Labor Party is their socialist left-wing party (now currently in control with the majority).
An excellent libertarian institution in Australia (think Cato) is the [url=http://www.ipa.org.au/]Institute of Public Affairs[/url].
I live in NSW… we’ve dodged a bullet… for now.
This issue needs to be examined properly, with open science and frank discussion, before any policies are based on it.
Note on Australian Politics,
In Australia the Liberal Party is a conservative right-wing party (though more libertarian on social issues) and the Australian Labor Party is their socialist left-wing party (now currently in control with the majority).
An excellent libertarian institution in Australia (think Cato) is the Institute of Public Affairs.
[snip sorry way off topic]
Stossell: No smoking gun…
Mr. Stossel’s attention should be called to the Read_me_Harry code comments.
Australia leading the way!
I really wish we had another few weeks to let things really snowball.
There has been some debate about the influence of Climategate in the gathering momentum of the sceptics in the Australian Liberal/National opposition coalition. Indeed, climategate has been discussed by the members (as Bolt reports), mentioned in parliament (question to Wong by Joyce) and discussed in the media by Minchin (Liberal leader in the senate where the leg was just defeated). Surely, the news emboldened the push. Anyway, whatever the machievellian motives of the politicians, scepticism of the science was certainly there in the background (Bob Carter helped with that).
As the dust settles on the political upheaval, over the next few days it will be interesting to see whether any journalists attempt to make a serious investigation of the scientific controversy. If they do indulge a little in the scandal of climategate…and in the context of Copenhagen…well, we will be in for quite a ride over the next few days.
2 battles won, more to come. Be nice when we get to the point they can sleep at night without being confronted by the climate bogeyman everytime they turn on the MSM.
Be interesting to see if an election is called early or not. Word on the ground is Rudd is running scared. I would say politicians all over the world should take notice – a tidal wave is about to hit!
Once again Australia is the lucky country & have dodged a tax bullet for now. Pity they passed a regressive ETS in New Zealand last week. And the right are supposed to be in charge in NZ.
I’m gonna chug a couple Fosters tonight in solute to my Aussie brothers & sisters….
good on ya mates!
someone should point Stossel to
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1997/plot/rss/from:1997/trend
He needs some tutoring. The graphs on this site do not seem to be in dispute and come out right.
Aussie, Aussie, Aussie…Oy! Oy! Oy!
Climategate’s “Harry Read Me” File — Efforts On Climate Change
Harry Read Me — As researchers around the world report on their findings in the hacked emails from the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in Britain you often hear references to the infamous “Harry Read Me” file.
The entire file, 247 pages long, is an encyclopedia chronicling the absolute mess that temperature records, upon which much global warming theory is based, are in.
The file describes the efforts of a climatologist/programmer at the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia to update a huge statistical database (11,000 files) of important climate data between 2006 and 2009.
The computer coding, along with the programmer’s apparently unsuccessful efforts to complete the project, involve data that are the foundation of the study of climate change — recordings from hundreds of weather stations around the world of temperature and precipitation measurements from 1901 to 2006, sun/cloud computer simulations, and the like.
READ ME for Harry’s work on the CRU TS2.1/3.0 datasets, 2006-2009!
http://www.anenglishmanscastle.com/HARRY_READ_ME.txt
Using 1997 as a starting point is kind of cherry-picking, but at least it is not scary-picking!
If you use Surface from 1940 to 1979 then switch to satellites until 1998 there is almost no warming whatsoever!
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:1979/to:2009/mean:6/plot/uah/from:1998/to:2009/trend/plot/uah/from:1979/to:1997/trend/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1938/to:1979/mean:6/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1938/to:1979/trend
Whatever happened to our temps, happened all at one time with El Nino in 1998, it was quick step up, but lucky for our wallets things have leveled off.
It is the ocean and sun stupid that control out climate.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:1979/to:2009/mean:6/plot/uah/from:1998/to:2009/trend/plot/uah/from:1979/to:1997/trend/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1938/to:1979/mean:6/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1938/to:1979/trend
I tried to find Stossels email but couldn’t. he should also look here for all the temperature data, so he doesn’t sound like a dope, not having looked at the data. (the falsified data that is)
http://www.climate4you.com/
Sorry for OT but Stossel was just on O’Reilly and did a fair job.
I’d watch for another effect of this scandal, which may be closely related to the Australian vote. Many pro-AGW people, even former hard-core AGWers like Monbiot, who suddenly realize they’ve been duped and are pretty angry about it, will certainly look upon any politician who continues to parrot the pro-AGW talking points as a fellow-dupe who hasn’t wised up yet.
One of the tribal human behaviors of mankind is not following a leader whose statements flag him as clueless about current events, and one who has obviously shoved his head in the sand.
Depending on their skills and that of their political advisors, many politicians may see the wisdom in jumping ship and calling for investigations and audits, lest it look like they too were happily in bed with crooks and liars.
Combine that with the abhorance of the rest of the scientific community to be portrayed publically as crooks and liars, and both scientists and politicians can find cover together by turning on the new evildoers and their nefarious scheme.
That’s the emotional response with political overtones, but it’s foundation is the insistence on integrity, a thing the public demands, science depends on, and politicians crave.
I love the smell of failing Emissions Trading Schemes in the morning….
Paul Sheehan ( a respected journalist in the Sydney Morning Herald) today said that a conservative estimate of 400,000 emails were sent to the 99 Coalition MP’s (Liberal and National Party) over the past two months. A letter in the same paper today suggested that the emails were from the ‘Alan Jones Fan Club’ (Conservative radio commentator like Rush Limbaugh) and the “protests would disappear like the rising sun”.
As I said before,there is a lotta learin’ goin’ on here.
At least the midday ABC news did have Ian Plimer make a comment but they just had to finish up with Stern and Antarctic icebergs. Lord Monkton was standing next to Plimer but his name was not mentioned. Not famous enough for the ABC yet.
But the cracks are appearing.
Congrats you Aussies!
Peter in New Zealand: “Pity they passed a regressive ETS in New Zealand last week”.
Pity, indeed. I am also in New Zealand, and it is hard to believe there has not been a stronger movement fighting this stuff. Don’t we have a reputation for independent thought? (Or used to!)
It is thought that one of the reasons for John Key rushing it through parliament when he did, was so he could be just like our big brothers across the Tasman, in time for the Copenhagen meeting. Fully expecting (as most did) that Australia’s ETS would be successfully passed into law last week. So now, where does this leave New Zealand… out in the cold?
Factcheck: Hacked E-Mails Are Part of Disinformation Campaign
WASHINGTON (December 1, 2009) — Climate contrarians continue to use hacked e-mails from the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in Great Britain to attack climate science. The Union of Concerned Scientists has published a backgrounder factchecking the contrarians and discussing the e-mails’ implications for the principles of scientific openness and scientific integrity
backgrounder factchecking: http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/global_warming_contrarians/contrarians-using-hacked-e-mails.html
An excellent example of Aussie Rules AKA Aerial Ping Pong.
To all my friends in Oz, I’m hoisting a glass of red ned to you. Keep up the good work
Some Big Business in Australia, has decided that ETS, (Capn Trade US) is not the way to go.
The science is unsettled therefore a Carbon Tax may be a better option as science can outline tactics to address real impacts.
A week ago there was a push by big business for ETS. Now it’s withering.
SME business has been against it ETS a long time but with so called consensus AGW science they could not make a case.
ETS is dead. Because Permits in pollutants are not technology.
Several people have suggested that Monbiot has changed his spots.
I don’t think so …. listening to him exchanging words with Bjorn Lomberg today on Canada’s CBC, he is as committed to AGW as ever.
I have not seen the debate that followed but here is the connection:
http://www.munkdebates.com/
Gene Nemetz: “I love the smell of failing Emissions Trading Schemes in the morning”
Yeah. Especially when their proper name is “Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme”! Man, that word “pollution” in there has really been a red rag to a bull.
One day into it and Tony Abbott has already started back-peddling on his AGW scepticism. It’s only a matter of time before the Libs cave in – this IS politics we are talking about. The only way we are ever going to stake this vampire throught the heart is with a grass-roots movement. And I just don’t know how interested the silent majority is – sure they don’t want this, but guilt is a powerful force.
The question is now will Rudd want to make the ETS the primary election issue by calling a double dissolution election for March 2010?
I don’t think he will, they are aware that a strong campaign pointing out all the flaws in the ETS will motivate a lot of voters back to the Liberals. This was an issue they were hoping to sneak through in the dark, it won’t stand the light of day.
We’ll know in the next few days, at the moment I’m reveling in the victory, faith in my country once again restored.
400,000 emails is a grass roots movement
“Steve Schapel (19:12:11) :
Peter in New Zealand: “Pity they passed a regressive ETS in New Zealand last week”.
Pity, indeed. I am also in New Zealand, and it is hard to believe there has not been a stronger movement fighting this stuff. Don’t we have a reputation for independent thought? (Or used to!)
It is thought that one of the reasons for John Key rushing it through parliament when he did, was so he could be just like our big brothers across the Tasman, in time for the Copenhagen meeting. Fully expecting (as most did) that Australia’s ETS would be successfully passed into law last week. So now, where does this leave New Zealand… out in the cold?”
A net exporter of wealth, people (More so than it already is) and jobs.
And a Merry Christmas to all the Who’s in Whoville, Australia tonight.
How the Grinch almost stole the Climate.
Or maybe it was the Ghost’s of Climates Past.
Flats (19:34:46) :
The question is now will Rudd want to make the ETS the primary election issue by calling a double dissolution election for March 2010?
No such luck… looks like they are going to attempt to get it through the senate a third time in Feb.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/dead–ets-to-rise-again-20091202-k4c1.html?autostart=1
Here are some interesting comments on Monbiot’s flying to Canada after he said flying is as “unacceptable as child abuse.” Unless of course your are promoting your new book: “Heat: How To Stop The Planet From Burning”
Just a tad hypocritical IMHO.
Comments on Monbiot from a Canadian perspective:
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091129/cda_climate_091129/20091130?hub=Toronto
Now all we have to do is throw Waxman-Markey on the Barbie.
Fair Dinkum?
“Hosco (19:45:47) :
Fair Dinkum?”
Fair go, fair change etc etc…meaning good.
Or as KRudd747 likes to say “A fair shake of the sauce bottle!”. If you ask me, he and Mzzzz wRong and Mzzzz Gillard have been on the sauce far too long….
from Colorado I have been listening for some time to Alan Jones and 2GB on a Grace wireless internet radio. Wonderful station. US talk radio could learn a lot from them.
twawki (19:39:27) :
400,000 emails is a grass roots movement
It’s certainly a start. Let’s hope it’s strong enough to withstand savvy propagandists dangling the plight of our grandchildren and little furry animals in our faces.
When is Pravda MSM going to tell the sheeple we are in a pretty serious solar minimum currently?
rbateman (19:44:55) :
“Now all we have to do is throw Waxman-Markey on the Barbie.”
Not sure that 1000+ page bill would taste good even if barbequed. But it would definitely make a good fire.
I have a more aggressive idea: Throw Waxman and Markey (themselves) to a few hungry white pointers.
Anybody that can proclaim on national television that the North Pole is “evaporating”…deserves to be eaten as chum har har by some svelte Aussie predator.
Meanwhile….back to the E.T.S.: Way to go Australia.
Dah dih dah dih dah dih dah dih DAH DIH! (Cue Jaws theme).
Give ’em hell!
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Wouldn’t it be funny if European carbon credit traders began suing the UN and climatologist for fraud and falsifying climate data?
Seeing the link above of the Union of Concerned Scientists citing the post-climategate entreaties of Phil Jones and Michael Mann to support their contention that this scandal is nothing, just some skeptics using illegally obtained information to smear true scientists, makes me wonder when they’ll be out on the golf courses helping OJ Simpson search for the real killer.
That approach will alienate more people than it manages to fool, unless those people be fools.
“richcar1225 (19:50:01) :
from Colorado I have been listening for some time to Alan Jones”
Richard, I believe you mean Alex Jones. I thought AJ was really out there a few years ago but now he makes more sense than ever. Alex Jones is the enlightened one.
There will be no double dissolution of Parliament in Australia. An announcement has been made by the deputy Prime Minister (in absence of Mr KRudd).
There will be another attempt at climate legislation in the Australian Parliament in February. By this time there will be more out on the CRU emails.
The CRU emails leak played a small part in the leadership change of the Liberal opposition and consequent defeat of legislation- a tipping point you could say.
Also interesting is that the deputy PM made the announcement of no double dissolution rather than waiting for KRuddiculous to return from overseas. I would suggest that the liberal opposition house members were not the only ones inundated with emails opposing the ETS.
KRuddy has last week promised to spend billions of dollars to help underdeveloped Commonwealth countries in climate change initiatives. This from a leader of a government which is seriously financial debt. There will be serious repercussions in Australia if KRudd starts spreading around billions of dollars without a mandate.
KRudd and Wrong threatened a double dissolution. That where the ruling fails to get bill that was mandated by the election through our senate after two tries. Our senate has the rule that members must be voted in on every second vote. With a double dissolution that does not apply and the contested bill is presented in a joint sitting. Our opposition is a coalition of Nationals (farming and rural support) and the Liberals (city support). Turnbull and Hockey with others had a great fear of this double dissolution. So we were faced with this most impotant change in fifty years without the public being aware of its true nature. The Coalition has called their bluff and Labor has backed down and will not call the dissolution! I am a very skeptical person and not either side politically but I am very much against this ETS. The Everything Tax System. It has already closed businesses and would put my electricity cost by 30% in the short term and it has not started.
Ed Scott (19:00:54),
I am not a programmer, is any of this recoverable ? I feel for the poor programmer and above all feel for climate research when I see……
“The conclusion of a lot of investigation is that the synthetic cloud grids
for 1901-1995 have now been discarded. This means that the cloud data prior
to 1996 are static.”
So he goes to plan B and uses a Fortran programme to convert sun to cloud.
Why not accept that the data is lost instead of creating a cloud proxy ?
Interesting, you can only vote in support of AGW…
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/aussie-googler-hits-the-world-stage-for-climate-change-20091202-k54f.html
Notice he’s been had by Al?
mkurbo, The Union of Concerned Scientists is another left-wing funded organization.
Union of Concerned Scientists (Discover the Networks)
If I hear O’Reilly equate air pollution with carbon dioxide and global warming one more time I don’t think I’ll be able to resist throwing a brick into the telly. Bill is simply a scientific dunce. I wonder if his science background is as pitiful as Al Gore’s and Obama’s.
I registered to listen to the CBC debate, but being in Aust I missed it – does anyone have a link to a download?
Keith Minto (19:08:57) :
“Paul Sheehan ( a respected journalist in the Sydney Morning Herald) today said that a conservative estimate of 400,000 emails were sent to the 99 Coalition MP’s (Liberal and National Party) over the past two months.”
Really? I didn’t realise I had sent that many. I lost count after 364,459.
Just kidding.
Today is an excellent day and by way of celebration ….it is raining!!
To the NZ residents above. Australia emits 1.2% of the world’s co2, while NZ emits a whopping .1% so your efforts without India, China , Brazil etc will at up to 4/5ths of 5/8ths of sweet fanny adams.
What a complete waste of time and money, I hope it gives these duffers a warm inner glow.
Finally a reason not to vote informal in teh next Federal election
Patrick Davis (19:49:59) :
“Hosco (19:45:47) :
Fair Dinkum?”
Fair go, fair change etc etc…meaning good.
Nope, fair dinkum means true or “true and not joking around!”, “seriously!”
MAJOR victory…this may only be Australia (sorry guys native to that nation…I love ya but you’re relatively small in the global picture…:) ), but it paves the way for the US senate to shoot down DeCAPitate’n’TRADE-freedom after Obama stupidly agrees at Copenhagen to push for it.
I can’t wait to watch him go down in horrible searing flames of political suicide when he can’t get either universal(ly-bad) health care or Cap’n’Trade passed. 😀
The emails and phone calls looked to make a difference. If you want to make a difference in Australia, join the Climate Sceptics party or just subscribe to their emails. They were very proactive in giving out senators details for easy contact.
http://www.climatesceptics.com.au/
Membership includes a cool bumper sticker 🙂
It’s dead Jim
Michael (20:08:25) :
“richcar1225 (19:50:01) :
from Colorado I have been listening for some time to Alan Jones”
Richard, I believe you mean Alex Jones. I thought AJ was really out there a few years ago but now he makes more sense than ever. Alex Jones is the enlightened one.
No he meant what he said, ALAN Jones is a radio commentator here in Australia who has been trying to bring this whole scam to the attention of the Public! might want to do some fact checking 😉
Oh, and what a glorious day today is to be Australian, I’ve always been very proud to be Australian, but now that this ETS has been stopped in it’s tracks, well you cannot wipe the smile from my face!
Australians all let us rejoice, for we are young and free……
Steve Schapel (19:20:41) :
their proper name is “Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme”
Here the proper name is :
“The Pollution Reduction and Investment Incentive Mechanism”
watch this video for the announcement by one Barbara Boxer
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-october-5-2009/carbon-copout
I love the smell of ClimateGate any time of day.
Allen Cichanski (20:28:53) :
O’Reilly …his science background is as pitiful
I think his dance to try to stay middle-of-the-road is more highly developed.
I heard John Stossel was on his show tonight to talk about ClimateGate. So I made it a point to watch his show–something I don’t usually do—and what a disappointment!!
SABR Matt (21:04:34)
Please don’t bring unrelated issues such as universal health care into the discussion. Too often climate skeptics are dismissed as right wing ideologs. To credibly explain the issue to the public we need the support of everyone who understands science, regardless of their views on political issues.
Most Canadians here, myself (dual citizen), and a few more famous ones, would be classified as center to left in US politics, but we understand climate science, and thus are not alarmists.
One can agree with Obama on many topics and still see the error of his climate policies.
There are lots of green activists going up to Copenhagen by chartered bus and train to clamour for yet more action against global warming. After reading Piers Corbyn’s latest weather prediction here http://www.weatheraction.com/docs/WANews09No91.pdf , I hope the poor darlings take lots of warm clothes with them.
Vote Quimby (21:27:41) :
Being English, I’ve always hated Australians for their outrageously ridiculous fighting spirit and competitiveness in sports.
But that was yesterday.
You done us proud mateys. Please continue.
Tony Abbott (New Aust Liberal(Conservative) Leader) has just challenged the government to open the Nuclear power debate. If they are serious about reducing carbon emissions then why close their minds to selling uranium for electricity generation?
May cause a few brains to pop in the Australian Labor Party.
On the SMH front page to this article there is an image of the Sun and what appears to be a beach-goer.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/cold-comfort-the-psychology-of-climate-denial-20091202-k5r8.html?autostart=1
I thought the science of AGW was all about CO2 as the driver and nothing to do with the Sun?
SABR Matt Australia has a universal health scheme. It works quite well and was brought in many decades ago. As part of your taxation a percentage is deducted for it. It is usd as a safety net. So as doug says don’t raise it this is a different issue.
MikeO (20:17:45) :
The Coalition has called their bluff and Labor has backed down and will not call the dissolution!
No, Labor didn’t say that. Julia G said they would not call an early election, meaning they’ll try again with the ETS. Labor can now call a dissolution at any time for the remainder of the term. It will re-emerge as a real threat when the debate resumes in February.
Vote Quimby:
According to Kenny, the National Anthem goes “Australians all let us ring Joyce for she is young and free…”
Gene Nemetz (21:28:57) :
watch this video for the announcement by one Barbara Boxer
Gene, it wasn’t necessary to include the word “one” in your comment. Two Barbara Boxers would constitute a tipping point from which there would be no return. Thank God Babbs is a one and only–wait I take that back–I can’t thank Him, He gave us “one” Barbara Boxer.
rbateman (19:41:58) :
And a Merry Christmas to all the Who’s in Whoville, Australia tonight.
How the Grinch almost stole the Climate.
Or maybe it was the Ghost’s of Climates Past.
Thanks, and the same to you. Our Decembers are hot but we cool off by sending Christmas cards with scenes like …
http://www.thedailygreen.com/cm/cosmogirl/images/KN/snowfall-christmas-lg.jpg
The biggest problem for NZ now is that Australia is our biggest trading partner for exports at 23.6%
NZ business is going to be shackled with ETS costs while Aussie ones aren’t.
Result = less business for NZ.
That will, of course, go for any country with no carbon emissions legislation like – US (#2 trading partner – 9.8%), China (#4 – 5.3%) etc etc
In other words – we’re [self snip]
“Geoff C (21:03:53) :
Patrick Davis (19:49:59) :
“Hosco (19:45:47) :
Fair Dinkum?”
Fair go, fair change etc etc…meaning good.
Nope, fair dinkum means true or “true and not joking around!”, “seriously!””
Well, I am told by my Aussie work-mate sitting right next to me that it can mean many things as it is slang, so “Really?”, or “Fair go” too would work, but does depend on the context. Overall, all examples are valid.
This might help people understanding Australians 🙂
Oh Doh!, thought the webpage part was for putting in a link, here is the link lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Dinkum
Stern vs Plimer:
Plimer is London is proud of his fellow Ozzie sceptics while across town Stern portrays them (ie all skeptics) as muddled and confused.
Daily Mirror runs with headline and Plimer :
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/143573
http://www.express.co.uk/ourpaper/view/2009-12-02
Good bet of footage of both here:
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200912/r479916_2437811.asx
In Oz we would say in an expression, is that fella Watts’ fair dink(um) or what.
which translates is he real, is he trustworthy, does he mean what he says, can he do what he says he will. will he stand with his mates, and will he honor his bets, will he honor his shout (turn to pay for a drink), will he steal your girlfriend or your car.
One term describes a person.
in the things that matter.
(or will he steal you girlfriend or your car) oops this english thing is hard isn’t it.
Anyway it’s the drift that matters.
Well done, Aussies. Now if only our U.S. Senate can follow their lead. . .
“Vote Quimby (22:46:04) :
This might help people understanding Australians :-)”
OT, I dodn’t think that’s possile, and I’ve lived here for years and I mean they invented AFL after all.
mkurbo (19:14:57)
“Respectable scientists operate by considering a question, developing a methodology to answer that question, and only then arriving at a conclusion. They disdain political interference, and go to the media only when their conclusions warrant immediate public attention. The Union of Concerned Scientists stands this process on its head. It develops a press strategy first, and then conducts politically tainted and methodologically flawed analysis. After all, it’s getting harder to convince the media that your environmental scare is more lurid than the next guy’s. You need good PR. That’s why UCS partners with slick Washington PR firms — to get attention, whether or not there’s good science behind the sound bites.”
http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/145
According to the SMH which has barely mentioned ClimateGate, this is why I’m Cleopatra, Queen of Denial http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/cold-comfort-the-psychology-of-climate-denial-20091202-k5r8.html
There is also a poll on “Do you believe in Climate Change and Global Warming?” The votes at present indicate 61% believe. I notice they didn’t say Man-made/Anthropogenic GW/CC. Sigh. http://www.smh.com.au/polls/politics/form.html
Chicken entrail analysis, consulting oracles, now it is “computer models” . . . as the sort which said that the price of real property was going to keep increasing in the near future . . . just before the real estate market crashed.
THERE IS NO WAY TO PREDICT THE FUTURE
There are ways to prevent or diminish the future impacts of natural forces, such as well designed storm drain systems, but in the end, even these will fail to protect us from natural forces.
twawki, you ain’t kidding. The government is sh…t scared. To-day I listened to the most hypocritical ranting garbage that I have ever heard from a so called leader of a country when Julia Gillard (acting for Rudd whilst he swans home from his umpteenth trip abroad) reacted to the voting down of the ETS. All she could muster was to label the Opposition as deniers and extremists in every second sentence and preach how vital it was for Australia to have the ETS NOW. Problem was there was no real answer when a reporter asked her if was so vital why were they were not going straight to a double dissolution. Mmmmnnn.
Give him time Christopher, you do not kill a vampire by offering your throat the first time you meet him head on. Abbott is not Van Helsing, he must first unite his party, then the country or at least secure a convincing majority. But he is smart, the first thing he has done is to unclothe the beast by renaming it an Energy Taxation Scheme.
Hey, LarryOldtimer, don’t knock haruspicy; it had many hundreds of thousands of believers over hundreds of years.
Perhaps, though, it’s worth recalling Julius Caesar’s response to fortunetelling. Caesar’s consular colleague, M. Calpurnius Bibulus, announced that he was looking for omens (and, given that anything at all out of the ordinary could and would be interpreted as an omen) the traditional response was to cancel all public business knowing that an omen would certainly be spotted. Caesar, however, chief priest as well as consul, just quietly went about his usual business of running the State.
Would that more politicians ignored fraudulent fortunetellers and went about their legitimate business.
LarryOldtimer.
“THERE IS NO WAY TO PREDICT THE FUTURE”
Hedge:
My prediction is that predictions will in the future be shown to be mostly rubbish. 🙂
Following on from before.
New people to this blog forget that Anthony and his skeptical Co conspirators spent years taking the great US global hotspot apart. GISS. Site by site.
The land measurement system, so we would say in OZ that Watts is fair dink.
This bit now is the last bit. But he took the Hot spot apart, he stood up and said your land measurement systems sucks like a second hand yabbie pump.
Sucks is sucks in most english.
Steve Schapel
Patrick Davis
Feel free to paddle across and join us in Australia we will also provide immediate citizenship for all All Blacks as we would like to win the cup occasionally. It’s a real shame you got lumbered with an ETS as I was hoping that like to MWP it was localised and limited to the NH.
To those in the motherland take heart I am sure Gordon Brown will take up the slack after our cruel betrayal and tax you even further.
LarryOldtimer (23:34:34) :
“THERE IS NO WAY TO PREDICT THE FUTURE”
Why not? Astrologers can already predict the future. Why not Climatologists? 😉
Professor Ian Plimer said to-day on radio 2GB that Tony Abbot had sent him a letter stating that Ian Plimer’s book ‘Heaven and Earth’ had convinced him that climate change was a scam. Hence Tony’s much reported remark that climate change is crap (sic).
Breakthrough
SBS News (6.30pm) here in Australia (the smallest of the 5 main channels) just had a segment that actually showed some balance.
They started reporting that some climate scientists claim that the permafrost in the Yamal Peninsula was thawing due to global warming but then countered that with a Russian Chief Scientist saying that was not true and that it was melting due to the sun and that greenhouse gases had little to do with temperature.
They then showed a picture of Phil Jones and said he has been stood aside and quoted the ‘hide the decline’ email, they also had a soundbite of Ian Plimer calling the whole situation a fraud and that the science should be debated. They then had an interview with William Kinnimoth.
It ended with Stern saying that skeptics were muddled.
I have never seen anything like it on SBS – they are usually wall to wall alarmist.
Now in primetime!!! keep up the pressure
Australia, Hats Off to YOU!
I’ll be “investing” in a variety of Australian beverages in the not too distant future! (Sadly, my favorite beer is the New Zealand Steinlager… I’ll be waiting anxiously for the chance to buy a celebratory package of it.)
Been rather a good week, all around… Now if we can just get China, India, and Brazil to say “stuff it”…
She’ll be right now M8 cause this bodgy Tax has been given the arse, it’s enough to make a jelly fish crack a fat.
I was away on a site visit all day (a major gold mine) but picked up the wonderful news on ABC radio on the way to the site.
My assessment:
1) Abbott said that he would come up with a climate change policy, but not an ETS, and he attacked the ETS for being a “big tax”, so I guess a straight carbon tax is out too. Perhaps he will drive a policy for more renewables via government support – who knows (nuclear is too hot a topic to contemplate and too far away to be a “solution” for CO2 emissions).
2) We will now see a lot of debate in Australia, at last FFS, about what an ETS actually is. What it means for Joe/Jane Citizen and businesses. How little it matters what Australia does, even if you believe AGW. Get it out in the open (I have been imploring the media in blogs to do so).
3) Rudd (leader of the current government) is not stupid… far from it. He had a double dissolution (DD) trigger today but did not use it. This is a huge revelation in itself… just think about it. He could have called a DD election and won in a landslide because the public is still ignorant of the ETS (I say that in the best possible way ~ to paraphrase Kenny Everitt).
4) Rudd delayed the DD because he is hedging his bets. What if COP15 and Climategate blows up? If that happens he can go the WMD route and say he was “acting on the best information that scientists provided him.” If it doesn’t blow up (less likely option IMO) he can call the DD, or just coast to the next election in November 2010 and still win.
5) Abbott is a Rhodes scholar – no muggins by any measure… let’s not forget this. His job is to shed as much light on the “climate science” and “ETS” as possible and what it means in the Australian context. If Climategate explodes, and he successfully leverages off it, he could pull off the most unlikely election win in Aussie history.
Having said that… look at the WA election last time around (about a year ago). The election was forced early by Carpenter (Labor) and the Libs were in disarray. Somehow they won… Rudd must be thinking about that as well in terms of pulling the DD trigger.
I could go on but I don’t want this to become another TL:DNR.
Have to feel sorry for Rudd… He’ll be hanging his head and flying off to Climatehagen without an ETS trophy, the laughingstock of the chardonnay socialist leaders.
I fear the jokes over port and cigars will be too much for his delicate disposition such that he’ll quietly sneak back to his 5-star each evening.
Steve Schapel (18:28:12) :
“Climate Change Minister Penny Wong …”
I wonder what she’ll do for a job now?
Evening all,
Yes we Australians had a great victory today but you’d never know it reading our MSM. Talk about bad losers!
I think the MSM commentariat share at least two faults with the colluding scientists: groupthink and arrogance. No wonder they’ve got on so fine.
Andrew Watts’ site definitely helped me put together some of the most damning statements from the CRU colluders and I emailed a selection to every major party MP in Oz, lower and upper house.
I didn’t need any media personality to radicalize me though it was a good to know I wasn’t alone as I read that thousands of emails were flooding in to our pollies. Same as you people here I suppose. Now who orchetrates you lot?
Exactly.
No, I was just so angry that this dog’s breakfast of an ETS was going to succeeed through moral cowardice that I let our pollies know what was going on with Climategate. Whether they believed it or not they can’t claim they didn’t know.
Thanks Anthony and everybody here. You most certainly helped to turn the tide in Australia and with any luck, the rest of the world.
Bravo.
Patrick Davis (22:05:23) :
“I thought the science of AGW was all about CO2 as the driver and nothing to do with the Sun?”
If you can stomach a look at Real Climate’s website they also use the sun – in what appears to be a full blown solar maximum state. Freudian, Gavin – Freudian…
(Can you believe it – I actually spelt Freudian as ‘Fraudian’ before I error checked my post!)
One good reason why there have been so few double dissolutions is that the vote quota for each Senate position is halved. What this means is that smaller parties have a better chance of getting Senators elected.
As might be expected, this is anathema to the major parties. While Labor might do deals with the Greens from time to time, they certainly do not want them with the balance of power. Likewise the Libs/Nats with parties such as One Nation.
Rudd is not completely stupid. For all the bluster, I think he believes that the tide is running out for the AGW scam in Australia. If Abbott plays his cards right he could annihilate Rudd on just two issues alone: boat people and emission schemes.
From http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/senate-rejects-labors-ets-scheme/story-e6frg6xf-1225806094041
“Queensland Liberal Senator Sue Boyce said she could not in good conscience abandon the amendments agreed to by Labor and the Coalition to improve the scheme.
“I would ask people to accept and understand,” she said.
Earlier, Liberal senator Judith Troeth said her experiences in the bush and in farming had convinced her climate change was real.
“Droughts are longer. Rainfall has dropped,” she told the Senate.”In short I believe there is global warming.”
After her speech Senate leader Nick Minchin, who led the anti-ETS revolt patted Senator Troeth on the back for her own decision to take a stand.”
There are two senators who are unlikely to be returned at the next election, whenever it’s held!!!
The New Zealand ETS was passed after the ruling National Party bribed the small Maori Party with millions of dollars of taxpayers’ money.
By way of a thank you to our neighbours across the ditch, I bought some Aussie beer at the supermarket today.
Okay, so it wasn’t very nice, but that’s quite beside the point. You’ve really done yourselves proud. Consider the whole underarm thing forgotten.
As an Englishman, I find this disheartening. Those Aussies thrash us at cricket, knock lumps out of us at rugby, and now seem to have politicians with b**ls. What next? They learn how to play football (soccer) and brew decent beer? It’s all very depressing.
Of course I meant Anthony Watts, not Andrew Watts.
I blush with shame.
E.M.Smith (01:10:36) :
Without being biased in any way, ya gotta try the Tasmanian brews.
The Baghdad Broadcasting Collective 24 hour propoganda stream has had nothing on this from 8:30 am to the present 10:30 am.
No problem in telling us about the £8 billion for rolling out Smart Energy Meters for all by 2020 or heart-tugging scenes of human and animal poverty on our “fragile” planet in adverts for the BBC upcoming coverage of Carbonhagen.
The Beeb news service now serves as a propoganda machine for extreme environmental activists and a Government that happily signed away UK sovereignty without asking the British population.
As an aside the UK ceased to be a sovereign nation on December 1, 2009!
The BBC MUST be brought to book.
Perhaps the esteemed Viscount could turn his steely gaze upon this once respected body.
Who knows but perhaps ClimateGate will be overtaken by BeebGate!
Reed Coray (22:18:18) :
Two Barbara Boxers would constitute a tipping point from which there would be no return
So that’s when California would fall into the ocean. (Who would miss it?)
View from the Solent (02:34:50) :
What next? They learn how to play football (soccer) and brew decent beer?
You left off music. What if they come up with someone better than David Gilmour?
“Australian Senate rejects Kevin Rudd’s climate plan”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8389909.stm
“We will come to parliament again, we will seek passage of the bill,” she told journalists. “All options are on the table as to what happens next.”
It’s not over yet
royfomr (02:39:38) :
Perhaps the esteemed Viscount could turn his steely gaze upon this once respected body.
Not so fast, not so fast. Let him gaze with intent on ClimateGate. I want to see him the star witness—star witness after the wistleblowers, that is—testifying in front of the US Senate. No divided attentions if you please.
Excellent. At last a politician who has the guts to buck the AGW tax scam, and all the bad science which sits behind it.
There is an interesting poll about whether people believe in AGW on the Sydney Morning Herald web site:-
If you fancy making your feelings know the link is here:-
http://www.smh.com.au/polls/politics/form.html
Currently stands at 60% YES, 30% NO, 10% undecided
Wat
We shouldn’t really waste space on this august climate debate blog but YES I’m old enough to remember that appalling day when the Australian captain ordered a bowler to bowl underarm. Not cricket.
Antonia
You know what is really weird? The ClimateGate Google Trends results show that the number one origin of Google searches for “Climategate” is Sweden:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=climategate
So we Australians are all searching for naked Swedish women online (ooops, I never confirmed that) and they are searching for Climategate… something distinctly yin & yang about that.
Meanwhile in more sensible news:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/tony-abbott-stumbles-forced-to-restate-support-for-emissions-targets/story-e6frgczf-1225806271993
Nuclear being raised as an option in Australia… and so the cycle continues.
Bulldust – I concur – don’t any of us feel too sorry for Rudd – he might be a pratt, but he can read the tealeaves a lot better than the MSM commentariat. He has just been taken neatly off one hook, but unless he too does the unthinkable and does a statesman-like “no responsible leader could take the nation into a climate change scheme until the uncertainties arising from the CRU… etc etc” (in which case, odious little narcissist that he is, I’d have to tip my hat to him), he is still saddled with a fervently-held party policy which by February, say, will look absurd, and from which at some stage he will have to resile. And if you thought the last fortnight saw a party in disarray, wait till you see Labour when he does.
Abbott must now follow through, with a relentless critique of AGW, and retain the crown of the “First Guy in Canberra Who Saw Through It.”
One caveat – a Fortran-literate blogger I read was so disgusted with the code he was ploughing through that he absolutely refused to be believe it was the real thing and not a sort of delta version that someone had somehow got hold of. You don’t suppose……’-)
Gene Nemetz (02:42:52) :
I can tell you that the State of Jefferson would NOT miss it.
I’m not even sure if Boxer is aware that the State of California extends north of Sacramento.
I’ll bet David Archibald is busy at the pub tonight, tossing a few down to celebrate the slaying of CPRS.
From an e-mail thread this morning:
Ozzie: Local Big Fishwrapper sez “Abbott is ‘a hate figure among several constituencies: feminists, aggressive secularists, climate change believers and many middle-ground progressives’.”
Canuckistanian: … so, he doesn’t have any bad points, then?
View from the Solent (02:34:50) :
…What next? They learn how to play football (soccer) and brew decent beer? It’s all very depressing.
It’s even more depressing when you realize they don’t *export* the best brews…
southerncross (01:32:42) :
She’ll be right now M8 cause this bodgy Tax has been given the arse, it’s enough to make a jelly fish crack a fat.
This should have been a safety snip, I almost choked. There’s too much truth breaking lose to cark it right now.
It was a wonderful moment to be listening to Parliament this morning when this thing was voted down. Brilliant couple of days of debate, too.
” twawki (19:39:27) :
400,000 emails is a grass roots movement”
Mate, I work in government in Canberra, and we get stuff from maybe two or three people who think they have a grass-roots movement on some issue or other, and we (bastards that we are) laugh and write a polite refusal. If we got 400,000 e-mails on a single issue, though, we’d sure as hell be advising the government to seriously consider whatever was being advocated. 400,000 is a serious amount of sentiment.
“Perry Debell (02:28:01) :
There are two senators who are unlikely to be returned at the next election, whenever it’s held!!!”
And not due to party politics.
One of them even said she was displeasing the majority of her constituents, Isn’t she elected to represent THEM and not herself?
No matter, I’m sure that if the next election is run on a platform of Carbon/ETS Tax the Aussie people will send Krudd and his leftie Warmanista’s off to a cave somewhere to sip Latte’s that will be warmed by the flatulence and hot air that is now spewing forth from them .
Those that are unaware or unable to comprehend the anger that the everyday Aussie feels about this issue at the moment are really going to reap the wind when the Climategate issue hits the front page proper in this country. They say that word of mouth is the best form of advertising, everyone I inform of this subject is outraged that the Current Government is taking them for a ride, most have no Idea what the ETS is let alone Know about Climategate.
Once word gets out Via MSM MR Krudd and Penny Wrong is going to find a climate change of a different kind.
I’m getting heat for bringing up a very similar scam? After I asked the community not four days ago not to spin wild political theories and to concentrate on the science?
Sorry, but that’s just not very fair of you, John.
Universal Healthcare is a similar top-down tax scheme…govt. claims it keeps costs down, but all it does is redistribute costs to the entire taxpayer base. Are the Canadians in the room enjoying waiting a year for their MRI or having to go across the border in the US to get medication?
I’m libertarian…NOT a right winger in my own country’s political landscape. The fact that I see major similarities between universal healthcare and cap and trade and want to see both ideas gutted by rational economics does not make me a right wing ideologue.
Gene Nemetz (02:58:10) :
royfomr (02:39:38) :
Perhaps the esteemed Viscount could turn his steely gaze upon this once respected body.
Not so fast, not so fast. Let him gaze with intent on ClimateGate. I want to see him the star witness—star witness after the wistleblowers, that is—testifying in front of the US Senate. No divided attentions if you please.
Sorry mate, you’re right. I withdraw my request. Me bad!
Thanks for your good wishes, fellow skeptics, from here down under. Gene, the air smells new washed! Now we Just gotta keep the campaign going.
Rain and lack of drought will be your reward next summer!
So, you won’t let it die, here in this thread congratulating the Australians.
In short, few Canadians would eliminate their universal healthcare. About 10% would trade for the US system. Statistically, we enjoy better overall health than our friends to the south. Please don’t link the health care program to a need for cap and trade.
Glad to see the Aussies, who also enjoy a good universal healthcare system, thinking clearly on climate. I hope we can do as well.
Home energy audits are a great idea for single family homeowners. However, a sad trend is emerging. The City of Austin enacted the Energy Conservation and Disclosure Ordinance (ECAD) for homeowners who sell their homes. If you own a condominium, a home newer than 10-years old or a manufactured home without a foundation, you are exempt from the ECAD. However, if you own an older home, you must submit the results of an energy audit to Austin Energy, – a utility monopoly, when you sell your home. The mandatory audits range between $100 to $300. Failure to submit an audit is criminalized by a Class C misdemeanor and a $2000 fine.
I hope the Austin city council will strip the criminal provision from the ordinance, because it is the wrong approach.
Thanks,
John Barksdale
http://stoptheaustinecad.blogspot.com
Gene Nemetz (02:42:52) :
So that’s when California would fall into the ocean. (Who would miss it?)
Just give me a heads up. I live in California and I have a lifetime supply of paper bags to put over my head when I’m outside the state.
allen mcmahon (00:42:23) :
“Feel free to paddle across and join us in Australia we will also provide immediate citizenship for all All Blacks…”
That’s not exactly true. We lock them up in detention centres for years, deport them back to where they come from, and then send them a bill for the time they spent in detention. Especially if they are black…
That’s one of the reasons why I’d rather vote “Informal”, then vote for the Liberal.
Christopher Byrne reckons Tony Abbott will back-track on the ETS. No he won’t. I was one of those Liberal voters that emailed him, amongst others. He knows what his voters think of this legislation. The more people realise this is just a GREAT BIG NEW TAX the more will vote Liberal in the next election and kill it for good. Go Tony. Thank god Australia finally has a decent opposition.