For those that don’t operate a business in California like I do, I was surprised today to learn that Sacramento State College of Business Administration and Center for Small Business have complete a study of the AB32 Greenhouse gas law, and its impact on California small businesses.
The law requires that by 2020 the state’s greenhouse gas emissions be reduced to 1990 levels, a roughly 25% reduction under business as usual estimates. The California Air Resources Board, under the California Environmental Protection Agency, is to prepare plans to achieve the objectives stated in the Act.
Will I keep my business in California with a tab like that? Probably not. It would be economic suicide for me. – Anthony
California Small Businesses Face $50,000 Cost from State Implementation of AB 32
from PR-inside.com
A new study released today found that small businesses in California will pay an additional $49,691 as a result of the California Air Resources Board’s implementation of AB 32. Citing severe economic impacts, a coalition of small business organizations called today for the suspension of the regulatory proceedings to implement California’s greenhouse gas program until the report’s findings are analyzed
and mitigation measures are added to the state plan.
The report concluded that when the program is fully implemented, the average annual loss in gross state output from small businesses alone would be $182.6 billion, approximately a 10% loss in total gross state output. This will translate into nearly 1.1 million lost jobs in California. Lost labor income is estimated to be $76.8 billion, with nearly $5.8 billion lost in indirect taxes.
“We support the state’s efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions, but we are very concerned that these costs will apply disproportionally to California small business. Consumers will be hurt and the environmental goals will not be achieved,” said Esteban Soriano, Chairman of the California Small Business Association and a founding member of the California Small Business Roundtable.
The analysis of the state Scoping Plan was led by Sanjay Varshney, Dean of the College of Business Administration, California State University, Sacramento and Dennis H. Tootelian, Ph.D., Professor of Marketing and Director, Center for Small Business, California State University, Sacramento. The study reveals that when the plan is fully implemented, California families will be facing increased annual costs of $3,857.
Varshney explained that the study’s cost analysis was based on the California Air Resources Board’s own findings, which revealed significant cost increases. The study’s findings are consistent with the Peer Review analysis that CARB commissioned, which also concluded that the cost of the AB 32 Scoping Plan would be significant, and that CARB had significantly underestimated these costs.
“Given California’s current economic plight, the state must refrain from imposing new fees on taxpayers to pay for an expanded bureaucracy,” said Michael Shaw of the National Federation of Independent Business. “When Assembly Bill 32 authorized this program in 2006, CARB promised to develop a greenhouse gas plan that would provide benefits to small business, not bankruptcy.”
The study also found that in order to cope with the increased costs generated by the AB 32 program, consumers will be forced to cut their discretionary spending by 26.2%.
“Californians will be getting less and paying more. How can the small business community survive in a political climate so determined to put us out of business,?” asked Griselda Barajas, owner of Tex Mex Restaurant in downtown Sacramento, where the study was released.
“Many lawmakers who enjoy our tacos will see a significant increase in their daily lunch bills if these problems are not addressed,” said Barajas. “All of the Capitol community folks who dine at Tex Mex will have to bear the burden of an unfunded mandate placed against my business.”
According to the authors, the study utilized IMPLAN, a widely used economic modeling program that has more than 1,500 active users in the United States and internationally. These include clients in federal and state government, universities, and private sector consultants. Joining the California Small Business Roundtable and the National Federation of Independent Business at Monday’s event were the California Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and the Sacramento Black Chamber of Commerce.
For a copy of the study, please contact Alison MacLeod at 916-225-6317 or amacleod@ka-pow.com : mailto:amacleod@ka-pow.com .
For California Small Business AssociationAlison MacLeod,
“How can the small business community survive in a political climate so determined to put us out of business,?”
To the champagne socialist, those who don’t need to work for a living, small business people are the Kulaks of the Western world. Dirty laborers and always out to make a buck; dangerously independent and thus should be put down.
You nasty capitalist, you. Everybody should work for the government!
“We support the state’s efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions, but we are very concerned that these costs will apply disproportionally to California small business. Consumers will be hurt and the environmental goals will not be achieved,” said Esteban Soriano, Chairman of the California Small Business Association and a founding member of the California Small Business Roundtable.
I can see where you went wrong, Esteban. Try this tack: “We do NOT support the state’s effort to curb beneficial gases that do NOT cause global warming in any case.”
As soon as they knuckled under to the faulty premise, they became a slave to Big Gummit Gone Wacko. The CSBA should have been fighting the entire pack of AGW lies from the get-go. Then they might have a leg to stand on today. As it appears now, they bowed down to the Alarmists but want special dispensation just for themselves. Makes them look selfish. Better to have stood up in the beginning instead of squirming under the boot they accepted meekly long ago.
We’re a manufacturing outfit, we’ll pay more I’m sure. At that rate, it’s not worth staying in California. I’ll talk to the CEO about it. Best to be proactive with these things.
Our company employs over 100 people in SoCal.
One question, do the cost estimates assume all the businesses will remain in CA? How many will just up and leave and how many will never come?
I think this California study is accurate. A National plan would probably cost just as much — and finalize our economic devastation.
I honestly believe that most legislators (at the State and Federal level) are mathematically illiterate. They don’t have a clue what these things cost. Or, they are crooked (the old “liar or fool” dichotomy).
“the study utilized IMPLAN, a widely used economic modeling program”
So you can guess how accurate that $49,691 figure is.
And why couldn’t they just round it off to ≈ $50,000 (or do they think their model is that accurate?).
Hmmmn.
Tennessee has no income tax = An immediate 10 percent increase in your take home pay. GA has about a 3% tax. Slightly smaller state & county sales tax down here though.
TN and GA and AL have lower gasoline taxes, no need for the expensive gasoline “CA special” mixes.
Got plenty of power.
What to do, watt to do?
Since this stupid legislation is creating an unfair disadvantage for California, the only obvious solution is to impose the same conditions on all states. Problem solved.
Why, it’s as if they WANT to destroy small business. Whodathunkit.
Part of the following is merely my speculation as to thought processes and motives of others. The facts are true.
The year was 2005, George W. Bush had just been re-elected and inaugurated for his second term as President, and the U.S. was not about to ratify the Kyoto Protocol to curb CO2 and other greenhouse gases. The Democrat party was in disarray. It was by no means certain Democrats would win the White House in 2008, and in any event Hillary Clinton was the leading candidate. It was even less certain that the country would elect a woman, especially Ms. Clinton with all the baggage she carries. The President, Bush, would not sign a climate change bill even if one was presented for his signature. Given these premises, certain Democrat state legislators in California took matters into their own hands, writing and passing AB 32, California’s Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006. It took until 2006 for final passage and signature by the Governor.
The global warming scientists at the IPCC had painted a dire picture for Democrats to absorb, including rising sea levels causing massive flooding, increased temperatures leading to glaciers melting and Sierra snowpack disappearing, and public health disasters related to increased temperatures. All of these predicted disasters were blamed solely on increasing CO2 in the atmosphere, which they said increases global air temperatures. California Democrats in the legislature were convinced, at least enough to vote for AB 32. In addition, curbing CO2 through a variety of measures laid out in AB 32 was stated as being good for California’s economy, would increase jobs, and would put money in every Californian’s pocket.
Unfortunately, little of that was true then, and certainly not true now. The evidence shows that in 2005, global air temperatures had been rising for around 20 years, but had leveled off. Sea levels at San Francisco had dropped dramatically from 2004.
In just four years, 2005 to 2009, the global air temperature has dropped further, to within 0.1 degrees of the 1979 value. Sea levels offshore San Francisco continue to drop. The predicted California heat waves that cause electrical blackouts have not happened since September, 2007. The exact cause of the decline in air temperatures globally is subject to debate. Some attribute the cause to a quiescent sun, with very few sunspots. Others name a cyclical shift in ocean temperatures, both in the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Some point to volcanoes, but there have been no major eruptions in the time frame. What is beyond dispute is that CO2 has continued to increase in the atmosphere. The crucial causal link between CO2 concentration and global air temperatures just does not exist. No one of intelligence can dispute that.
Nationwide, we have seen one of the coldest winters ever, and just this past week there was unseasonable and rare snow in June in the northern Sierras. Temperatures in Southern California are below average for the month of May, with cold rain falling the first week of June.
Where does that leave us? We are faced with draconian changes to the California economy from AB 32 mandates, to name only a few: Low Carbon Fuel Standard, Renewable Portfolio Standard, Cap and Trade, plus 70 others identified by California’s Air Resources Board. Yet we have incontrovertible evidence, as stated earlier, that CO2 reductions will do nothing to change global air temperatures.
The benefits of AB 32, when all its requirements are implemented, are projected by ARB to be a measly $4 per week in every Californian’s pocket. On such a slim improvement, is it prudent to disrupt markets in such a far-reaching and massive fashion? Meanwhile, expert economists who studied AB 32 and its Scoping Plan in great detail concluded the entire AB 32 is flawed to the core. One telling statement, by ARB, is that for every dollar invested in AB 32, two dollars will be returned. Yet, many of the requirements have no dollar return, and for those that do have a return, ARB will not state how many years must pass for those two dollars to show up.
Of course, the answer must be NO. It is time for Californians to face the facts, and stop AB 32 before more damage is done to the economy. This is a time of great financial upheaval in California, with one $42 billion budget deficit recently staved off but at a very high price including higher taxes and borrowing. Not even six months later, the state faces a $26 billion deficit that is unlikely to be solved. Additional burdens on businesses, industry, and residents as imposed by AB 32 will kill California.
AB 32 must be repealed, and repealed now.
I posted the above to my blog on June 7, thus the reference to snow in the Sierras is accurate. — RES
Thank you, Anthony, for posting this. The following is a link to op-ed written in Dec. 2007 that suggests any major land-use decision made by any local or county body in California, can be challenged and regulated according to AB 32.
The prospect of this happening is to me, as a builder, discomfiting to say the least.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071213/news_lz1e13lowe.html
As a matter of environmental responsibility, the last one to leave California should turn out the lights.
I drilled down on the link to get a bit more info. Arnie sure was proud of this POS when he signed it in 2006. How’s that workin’ out for ya Arnie? Still grinnin’? http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/4111/
Not wanting to divert the thread, but on the general subject of transaction/compliance/excessive costs, here is a piece from “World Nuclear News” of 10 July 2009.
“US nuclear utilities challenge waste fees. US nuclear utilities have written to Energy Secretary Steven Chu asking him why they should continue paying some $770 million annually towards the Yucca Mountain waste repository, since the project has now been put on hold and no alternative has yet been proposed. Utilities pay 0.1 cents/kWh into the national nuclear waste fund, which also gets over $1 billion per year in interest. The Nuclear Energy
Institute has written to Chu on behalf of its members to “express its deep concern about the federal government’s failure to fully carry out the statutory obligation to implement the nuclear waste policy established almost three decades ago in the Nuclear Waste Policy Act of 1982.” This required the Department of Energy to take over all used fuel and dispose of it
from 1998, funded by the levy on electricity production.”
I guess you can see parallels happening to small business in California.
Here is where it goes wrong Anthony:
“We support the state’s efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions, but…”
The message must be clear:
As CO2 is a gas of life, not a pollutant and climate on earth is subject to natural cycles we demand:
1. Freedom of fuel choice.
2. No qualification of CO2 as a pollutant.
3. No restrictions on CO2 emissions
4. No CO2 regulation by EPA under the Clean Air and Clean Water Act.
5. No regulation via the backdoor by adopting the existing Montreal Protocol
6. No CAP & TRADE
If AB32 will cause the elimination of 1 million jobs in California, I am very curious how many jobs will go in the entire USA.
If the Senate in it’s unlimmited wisdom would make the mistake of passing the Waxman Climate Bill, millions of Americans will lose their jobs.
AB32 will kill California.
This madness has to be stopped.
(I belive this may be somewhat OT, but the message it provides is very relevent to “this topic”.)
An economics professor at a local college made a statement “that he had never failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class”.
(Author Unknown, but his comments are “right on”}
——————————————–
That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”.
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.
The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
“Could not be any simpler than that”.
There is no more good news. Only approaching darkness.
OT, but check this out…
http://people-press.org/report/528/
Attitudes of scientists/engineers vs the public. It makes for fascinating reading, and hopefully when Anthony puts it up, fascinating discussion. As a PhD Engineer, I’d love to hear what the folks here think about it…
At the rate the state government of California is committing economic suicide by playing politics with the budget now they’re contemplating more carbon taxes… LOL Soon there will be nobody left in the state to tax. Serves the idiots in Sacramento right.
Come on!!! No one ever hear of SNOPES????
http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/socialism.asp
Much as I love the story – it stank like an urban legend the minute I read it (sorry for the mixed metaphor there!!!!)
Joe Romm on Climate progress says less than the cost of a cup of Joe a day. I knew he wasn’t telling the truth.
I suspect he does also. The 300 dollars a month for a household is very difficult.
I am really surprised there is no mass exodus out of California. Yet according to census estimates, California gained about 379,000 people between 2007 and 2008. Only Texas gained more people. The states that added the most people are Texas: 483,000, California 379,000, and then a BIG drop off to North Carolina 180,000, Georgia 162,000. Here is the point of that, how is the population of California increasing by so much despite the stupidity of Sacramento? I realize you have illegal aliens and natural births and California is huge. I also realize California has great weather and is beautiful. But why aren’t people leaving for more sane places?
Does anybody know why California keeps gaining so many people despite high taxes, high prices, and stupid fact-less restrictive legislature? Why would anyone choose to live with that?
But if it does happen, it is a vicious cycle hard to break. A region is either growing or dying. Look at Michigan. Michigan is screwed. UAW and the Big 3 refused to adapt to the new economy and now Michigan is screwed. When I watched the Final 4, all I kept hearing was how if Michigan State won how it would help the economy. Please, a basketball game won’t help deprecated businesses.
Well, unless California changes, it will become Michigan. $50,000 from a small business. That is more money than I make with my business. If that was levied against my business, I would have to double my costs. Many small businesses would do that same, and big business would raise prices too. It won’t take businesses long to see greener grass in hot dry Nevada, New Mexico, or cool Oregon.
California WAS a nice place to live. Until some idiots screwed things up so bad that the beautiful weather couldn’t make up for it.
I see no reason whatsoever to reduce “greenhouse” gasses. There is no evidence they are causing a problem of any sort.
FYI, I found a link to the study provided by its authors at:
http://www.sbaction.org/get_resource.php?table=resource_kmqap4_18z4ys&id=kmqaq1_1ed1wo
This was in an article attributed to the study’s authors that had a slightly different emphasis than the one you’ve quoted above. Not less chilling, mind you, just different. That article was at:
http://foxandhoundsdaily.com/blog/sanjay-varshney-and-dennis-h-tootelian/new-study-finds-ab-32-scoping-plan-imposes-staggering-co
I agree with Roger Sowell: repeal AB32 immediately if not sooner.
Okay, after I posted I did some more searching at the census website. It seems California’s population increase is only due to natural births and international migration (read aliens both legal and illegal). About 144,000 people out of California to other states between 2007 and 2008. But about 196,000 people from other countries moved in. With that, plus 325,000 natural increase, that gives your number.
So people are moving out of California. It is just that more non-Americans are moving in and people are being born. I would expect this number of people leaving to rise greatly due to this idiotic law.
That light you see at the other end of the tunnel is the on coming freight train called cap and trade. Best get off the tracks or figure out how to stop the train.
Larry
The long and short of it there are three choices.
1. Vote the bastards out.
2. Move
3. Armed insurrection.
On a positive note, this is one way for California to stop their illegal immigration problem. I suppose now they will have to build a wall to keep businesses and people in the state.
Anthony I know you’re a gentleman and perhaps my suggestion is a bit too crude for you, but here it is anyway: Move out of California, join the Libertarian party and tell the California government to stick it where the sun don’t shine.
REPLY: I’m also a pragmatist. -A
Iowahawk says it all about California . . . may it rest in peace . . .
“Fans Flock to Mourn California, 1849-2009
LOS ANGELES – Millions of fans from around the globe gathered along Sunset Boulevard to pay final respects to California today, as a slow moving funeral procession transported the eccentric superstar state’s remains to its final resting place in a Winchell’s Donuts dumpster in Van Nuys. The self-proclaimed ‘King of Pop Culture’ died last week at 160, in what coroners ruled an accidental case of financial autoerotic asphyxiation. The death sent shock waves across the world and sparked an outpouring of grief by rabid fans.
“I don’t care what the tabloids and the Wall Street Journal say,” said a weeping Illinois. “I still love you, Cali!”
The 640-mile long funeral parade route was lined with flowers, candles, teddy bears, and IOUs from millions of mourners and debtors who made the somber journey to watch the passing of the state that had once ruled the box office and industrial charts. Among them were current chart-toppers who cited California as a key influence.
“If it wasn’t for California, I wouldn’t be where I am today,” said Arizona of Westside 3, the popular sunbelt trio who recently benefited from the late state’s generous gift of fleeing taxpayers and businesses. As a tribute to their mentor, Arizona vowed the group would start spending money “like crack-addled hip hop stars.”
“California’s financial and musical legacy will never die,” said band mates Nevada and Oregon.
At the official funeral service at the LA Coliseum, a grief stricken Washington, who teamed with California on several hit software and wine projects, had to be physically restrained from climbing into the deceased’s gold plated casket.
Similar emotional outpourings were the rule of the day. Stories – apocryphal or not – of the late state’s bizarre self-destructive behavior and fondness for molesting children did little to dampen the the flood of tributes from fans who preferred to remember California as America’s Sweetheart.
From a humble beginning as a water-poor remote Spanish mission outpost, California proved to be a precocious and talented child performer. It struck gold with ‘Sutter’s Mill’ in 1849, earning accolades and attracting millions of crusty bearded prospectors. Black gold soon followed with ‘La Brea Tar Pits.’ Unlike many child acts, California made a smooth transition to adolescence, scoring a major hit with ‘Agriculture’ in 1891.
Even a frightening bout with tremors did not stop the flow of hits. The 1915 megasmash ‘Hollywood’ broke all records, as did the wartime favorite ‘Aerospace.’ More recently, California topped the charts with ‘Tourism,’ ‘High Tech,’ and ‘Coastal Pretension.’
For a time it seemed as if the superstar could do no wrong, but behind the glittering facade of Disneyland Manor troubling signs of mental instability began to emerge. The state developed a well publicized drug problem during filming of 1967’s ‘Summer of Love,’ and briefly dabbled in strange religious cults. Under the influence of spiritual guru Jerry Brown, it began wholesale experimentation in exotic spending programs, eventual resulting in a traumatic 1979 stay at the Prop 13 Rehab Center.”
rtr @
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2009/07/fans-flock-to-mourn-california-18492009.html
Actually, there is good news. Lincoln said, the best way to defeat a bad law was to enforce it strictly. These guys are enforcing all of this stupid stuff, people are going to get fed up with it, especially if the winters keep getting colder. I say a good hard winter 2009- 2010 all the people who voted for the climate change bill will look like idiots. Their only defense would be, I didn’t read the bill before voting on it. 2010 will be bad for the AGW, and 2012 if the minimum theory is correct should just about finish them off politically.
They cannot say that they haven’t been warned. Just like Obama figured it would be a slam dunk later to oppose the Iraq War. Anyone who opposes AGW today, will look great in the future. To me, that is very good news indeed.
Coalsoffire – “Since this stupid legislation is creating an unfair disadvantage for California, the only obvious solution is to impose the same conditions on all states. Problem solved.”
In a way this is already happening. Much of the “stimulus” money was really just a transfer of wealth to states that are in financial trouble, like California. Basically all of us are subsidizing California’s absurd effort to fight AGW.
Spreading the wealth, with stolen money?
Steve in SC – Add
4. Civil disobedience.
5. Repeal as violating “the laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” as mutually required by all States for equal standing in the Union.
6. Make solar energy cheaper than fossil energy.
I’m with Mike D and Ron de Haan, The proper approach is to call this what it is: Absolute unbridled stupidity. (My view) –> All references to “Carbon” anything must be accompanied with adjectives that will force a confrontational debate: Fantasy, eco-zealotry, absurd, hoax, ridiculous, pointless, unnecessary, false, etc. There can be no conciliatory appeasement on this issue. The data indicates this theory is flat out false. Confidence on the facts makes this possible, and confidence is what skeptics in congress and the business world lack to tackle this issue. This is why THIS BLOG should be mandatory reading for all members of congress either on the fence or already skeptical. They need an education to combat the monster that Gore hath wrought. Dana Rohrabacher, are you out there?
(yes, I’ve written him)
Anthony, may I suggest you simply pay the State of California taxes with an IOU. What’s good for the goose …….
This week the Economist’s cover for the North American edition had America’s Future—California v. Texas.
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayCover.cfm?url=/images/20090711/20090711issuecovUS400.jpg
Fortunately, not all of Texas is like Austin, where green electricity was a very big deal.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/2009/07/12/0712greenchoice.html
Why does the population grow? california has some millions in cultures with high birth rates. california is a very attractive entry for immigrants. Many people move on. China is paying for it’s birth control. California is placing birth control on physical business. Software and service business of a non physical nature are hard to tax. If one has a virtual business, how can the government tax it other that revenue, income and healthcare. They can’t attach taxation to fuel or physical goods.
Wade: Does anybody know why California keeps gaining so many people despite high taxes, high prices, and stupid fact-less restrictive legislature? Why would anyone choose to live with that?
—
Yes, you found the “missing” people. Almost all are illegal aliens, the legal aliens are counted and regulated very, very closely through their entire paperwork process and are only a small fraction of who cross the border illegally. Add in anchor babies: Born here after the mother (already pregnant) walks over the border and into the delivery room. As soon as the anchor is born, the family must be allowed to stay.
Wade: I suspected those census estimates were not very accurate when you cited them. Your clarification helped. The gain in CA is from high birth rates (probably among the poor) and immigration.
Who would want to migrate in?
First, those who is worse off somewhere else and probably have relatives who have already migrated to CA. Immigrants draw immigrants.
Second, it is a known destination attracting those who have intended to come to America for years and for all that time have heard how great CA is. After all, our TV shows and media – seen abroad – does not spend much time telling people how great Alabama is. But there are ten shows a day about wealth and fame in Malibu.
At some point governments can accept reform – is the true sense of changing for the better. Or they can proceed with business as usual.
Printing money is a signal of the end – scrip and IOUs are weak cousins. Rule by martial law and by gangs of deputized thugs usually follows.
But countries are durable and hard to break. Sometimes recovery arrives in the most improbable guise, when all seems to have failed, and the politicians seem mad.
Allen63 (17:26:55) :
You wrote:
“I honestly believe that most legislators (at the State and Federal level) are mathematically illiterate. They don’t have a clue what these things cost. Or, they are crooked (the old “liar or fool” dichotomy).”
The problem with our legislators is that they are out of touch with the average citizen. Hey, what’s the big deal about paying an extra $300 per month? Your senators and representatives don’t know because it’s chump change to them. For us working stiffs, it’s the difference between paying all our bills or slowing sinking into bankruptcy. They’ll never figure it out and the next one you elect will be the same as the last. They don’t have a clue.
Just my opinion.
Jesse
PS) Ever seen some of the canned responses Senators send when you make comments on the Cap and Trade issue? Nothing but sound bites – that is if they respond at all.
Seems the plan is working. Drive out the riff raff with this barrage of doom and gloom then snap up coastal property and all of San Diego for a song.
David L. Hagen (18:58:43) : “…6. Make solar energy cheaper than fossil energy.”
Easy. Just pass a law stating that to be true. Ahnie will sign it. And let’s round off pi to 3.0 by statute, while we’re at it. And declare that underwear must be changed every half-hour and worn on the outside, so the state can check…
The sooner we vote these {insert your favorite plural hyphenated word here} out of office, the better.
Too bad there isn’t someone out there with a significant amount money to develop a cable channel to compete with the likes of the liberal cable and public TV channels. Kind of like a cable TV version of Watts Up With That? Something that would intellectual compete with all the liberal pseudo-scientific crap that is out there. Look at the success FOX NEWS has had competing with all the liberal mainstream media outlets. If only we could do same thing with weather and climate. I know it sounds farfetched but it doesn’t hurt to dream.
There’s a logical fallacy buried somewhere in the Cap & Trade theory.
I started work in 1980 and am still in the same job doing the same thing and driving the same distance for the last 30 years. Yet the emission of CO2 has risen by about 14% over that time. In order for society as a whole to reduce emissions back to a 1990 level, I will have to reduce emissions by about 12% in order for the numbers to balance.
I’m being penalised because society is growing, hello? Will this lead to resentment against immigrants?
From the book “The end of Prosperity” (a must read) is a description of a US Senate hearing in 1989 in which Senator Bob Packwood asked crystal ball gazers at the Joint Committee on Taxation to estimate the revenues from a 100% income tax rate on incomes above$200,000. (We all know that would be zero, at least it would be from me).
But these government yahoos plugged it into their computer models and replied, in the first year revenues would be $104 billion, 2nd year it was $204 billion and in the 3rd year $232 billion. “Enough to balance the budget.” Packwood was flabbergasted by the response. “Clearly no one will pay all their money to the government”.
This one scenario alone tells us how much disconnect the government bureaucrats and politicians understand about the economy and the human element of risk, reward, work and capital. Because they don’t understand, they will not even stop after they run the economy 6 feet into the ground.
Depopulating California may be the elitists’ goal.
Funny you should mention that. Carson City has been looking better and better to me lately.
REPLY: Ditto that
Brendan (18:10:11) :
your link was to a story about Texas and socialism not California and idiotism
sorry but i see no link here
Every cloud has a silver lining. As an Australian who would not mind a holiday home in California, I shall just wait for the forthcoming avalanche of foreclosures and perhaps pick up one or three of them! I want them all by the seaside.
Now I’m glad I didn’t go in and buy the business I was thinking of. This would surely have killed it. There won’t be any new small business, and those that try will lose thier shirts. According to the State, most business growth is from small business and small business startups.
Calif. is stupid enough to do this.
““express its deep concern about the federal government’s failure to fully carry out the statutory obligation to implement the nuclear waste policy established almost three decades ago in the Nuclear Waste Policy Act of 1982.” This required the Department of Energy to take over all used fuel and dispose of it
from 1998, funded by the levy on electricity production.””
Doesn’t that kind of destroy the whole “waste disposal is a subsidy to nuclear energy” meme?
Texas is a great place to relocate! Unemployment is still the lowest in the nation, and you’ve got lots of choices of cities. Real estate never took off on a ridiculous surge up, so prices are still cheaper than in California. Why kill yourself in California? Come to Texas!!!
“express its deep concern ”
Expression of “deep concern” is pretty much all our government seems to do these days. They inform us of their current emotional state (deeply concerned) but don’t actually DO anything. North Korea explodes nuclear bombs … we express “deep concern”. Iran starts shooting their own civilians, we express “deep concern”.
I really don’t care what the emotional state is of our leaders. I want to know what they are going to DO about things. So far all I see them doing is foisting more and more burden on to us to provide cash for ridiculous spending projects designed to buy votes.
The people in our government have gone stark raving insane.
Actually the state needs do nothing to achieve a 25% reduction in carbon emissions.
All they have to do is wait. With all the state’s problems, 25% of the state’s population will leave on their own. If California wants to speed up the process, they can just raise taxes or issue IOUs to pay their bills. Will work like a charm. Oh, you say they’re doing that already. Sorry.
What’s even better is the ones leaving will be the wealthy. They’re the ones that put the most miles on their cars, fly planes and crowd the state with lots of employees.
Looking at other good emission news, NUMMI Motors will most likely close freeing up 5,500 employees and their families to move out of state. It will also cut electric consumption in northern California.
You just have to look at the good side of things.
Anthony: Move your brick n’ mortar to Nevada, maintain residence in California, and get a sweet little side job as one of the brown shirts who goes around enforcing emission standards. The power! CIA… ATF… they got nothing on the Carbon Police.
Have any of these legislators taken a single course in economics? Do they think the money just magically appears from no where? Just tax the people & the government will have more money ??? Well, they will certainly achieve their reduction goals as no one will want to work or live in CA any more – less people = less jobs = less consumption = less CO2 = poorer standards of living. Hopefully the feds are paying attention to this too – as the same equation applies at the national level.
Most things in life a really very simple. Some might require intensive study before you are able to understand how simple they are, many more require nothing other than observation and common sense. This topic falls clearly in the latter camp.
The central tenet of business is simple – if you sell your product (be it goods or services) for more than it costs you to provide it you can keep going, if you cannot recoup your costs you have to shut up shop and try something else.
Increasing the costs of business, whether through additional taxation or increased input-costs such as energy bills, reduces the ability of business to make a profit. It causes jobs to be lost as wage costs are cut in an attempt to keep afloat. Those jobs cannot be replaced by direct state employment (using the additional taxes that caused unemployment in the first place) because state-employment is not productive.
You see, it’s all about wealth. I don’t think our friends on the political left understand wealth. Wealth is stuff, in particular it is stuff that makes life comfortable. It is not dollars and pounds alone, it is what those dollars and pounds are able to buy. The more stuff that is made and sold the more wealth increases. But a lot of jobs don’t actually make any wealth, they don’t make any stuff, they just use-up money that could otherwise be put to the task of making new wealth.
When Joe Smith is working in a profitable factory his work not only provides him with a wage it also produces stuff, stuff that is bought and sold so that others earn a living. After the factory closes and Joe Smith gets a job filling in forms for the government, he does not make any stuff. Of course his wages are spent as they were before and through that process he helps shops and other businesses to survive, but he does not add anything more than that to the economy. Unless an economy concentrates its efforts on creating stuff the money eventually runs out because that economy consumes stuff all the time (food, clothes, vibrating bedroom novelties and the like) which has to be replaced. If it is not replaced, standards of living must fall and, in extreme circumstances, that can include not having enough food and water to keep people alive.
Whether or not carbon dioxide will ever have a serious detrimental effect on sea levels, intensity of hurricanes and the percentage of polar bears who contract swine flu, increasing the costs of business will cause people to lose their jobs.
And never overlook that it is always, always, always those at the bottom of the pyramid who get hit hardest. They are both the most dispensable and the least able to provide a buffer for themselves in case times get hard.
One day the lesson will be learned that increased costs imposed by government cause unemployment among the lowest earners first and in greatest numbers. I say it will be learned, perhaps it won’t because it has been seen over and over again yet still those who claim to care most for the lowly people continually introduce policies that hit those people first and hardest.
For a bankrupt State to exacerbate its dire economic position by imposing yet more costs on wealth-creating businesses is sheer madness. Even if you believe carbon dioxide to be Arsenic in sheep’s clothing, taking measures that cause people to be less able to cope with hardship cannot be the answer.
The whole thing is nuts.
“Easy. Just pass a law stating that to be true. Ahnie will sign it. And let’s round off pi to 3.0 by statute, while we’re at it.”
Robert A. Wilson’s law of the superiority of politics to economics:
“If A is greater than B, and B is greater than C, then A is greater than C, except where prohibited by law.”
It would be difficult for Anthony to move himself out of California, but if the difference is between having a business and not having one, then the pressure is certainly there.
I’m frantically looking for work at the moment, and I have a wife and two young children. Beyond the catcalling over bad climate science, many people like me are afraid that the future will be a poor, miserable one.
Cap & Trade was originally intended to fill the federal government’s coffers. And it would have, if the Democrats had kept to their original plan: carbon credits were to be auctioned off to the highest bidder by the federal government, which would have raised huge revenues to fund Obama’s immensely expensive healthcare proposals. But that’s not what happened.
In order to get the necessary House votes for Cap & Trade [which only passed by an extremely close 219 – 212 margin], Speaker Nancy Pelosi had to agree to give away 85% of all carbon credits issued, free of charge, to the special interests who prop up her Democrats in Congress. Without Pelosi’s giveaway, the C&T bill would have gone down to certain defeat.
So to avoid the looming defeat of the C&T bill, House Democrats, flogged by Pelosi and Obama, agreed to forfeit 85% of the government’s expected income from auctioning carbon credits.
There is no possible way that the Democrats can now enact their socialized healthcare system without heavily taxing private health benefits, and raising taxes on the middle class — both of which Obama repeatedly promised not to do when he was campaigning.
This is why communist countries close their borders and seal the exits. It only works on a captive population.
Please leave Alabama alone. I live here and love it. the winters are cold the summers are extremely hot. the taxes are high. there are no jobs. (for the most part not true.) It is nice here but we also have our troubles, our sales tax is high as much as 10% depending on the county and city you live in. For instance we have a 1% hospital sales tax in the town near where I live but the hospital closed about 12 years ago but we still have the tax. The problem is very simple we must all go on a diet and move to smaller digs. If you can’t afford fuel for farming the cost of the produce goes up until the people can;t afford it any longer. travel is totally restricted. (unless you are in government.) There are no large gardens because,
1. Very few people now know how to grow beans corn cabbage and other vegetables. and
2. you can’t afford to run your garden equipment due to a lack of available fuel and there aren’t enough horses to farm with any longer.
The people will go to work for less to get food and live in tents or on the national forest in tents and lean tos. ( starting to look better all the time.) Cant afford housing and groceries at the same time. and there is no use having a house if you are going to starve to death in it. Burn wood as long as it lasts but everyone will be burning wood as other fuels becomes unavailable due to lack of carbon credits available. or cost increase because of the costs of credits. Yep it looks like it is going to be a long time for our economy to come back. I can easily imagine going back to the 1910’s era with most folks walking every where again. Just think the rebirth of the country store, the local meat cutter, the local grist mill. Yep eliminate the availability of reasonably priced fuel, dependable fuel, and the ability to use it and I can see us moving back to the early 20th century. Remember that those that are making these laws and enforcing them will not be effected as they will be using government permits so that they can enforce their plans. I wish that I were being sarcastic but this scenario could really happen in the next 2 or 3 years if the actions of the current administration and its cronies in the national legislature aren’t curbed.
God help us.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Bill Derryberry
Maybe a Californian investigative reporter could find out who or what entities will be selling carbon credits. It could be interesting. After all, it’s your spendable income that will be paying for those carbon credits.
On a side note. I have a bunch of squirrels that bury walnuts in my yard every year. As trees sprout up, I them dig up. You think I could sell carbon credits to California businesses if I left them in the ground?
K 19:28
Lets keep Alabama out of this discussion. You must be a a naive yankee.
HI Anthony and all,
I’m getting tired of Canadian winters, which I swear are getting colder of late.
Am greatly diappointed with the global warming people for failing to deliver as promised. This last winter was particularly long and cold.
Was thinking about Palm Springs. I understand it has an unfailing water supply – is this true?
Wherever I go must have adequate water – this leaves out much of Nevada, doesn’t it?
Am now concerned about this latest tax knock on California. I also hear they charge non-residents more tax, even though we consume much less public services.
So watts left – New Mexico? Parts of Nevada? Has to be warm in winter,
Polite suggestions please.
California has become a showcase for failed liberal policies. The end could come soon when banks will no longer accept state IOU’s and no more financing is available.
Smokey (20:43:29) :
Cap & Trade was originally intended to fill the federal government’s coffers. And it would have, if the Democrats had kept to their original plan: carbon credits were to be auctioned off to the highest bidder by the federal government, which would have raised huge revenues to fund Obama’s immensely expensive healthcare proposals. But that’s not what happened.
In order to get the necessary House votes for Cap & Trade [which only passed by an extremely close 219 – 212 margin], Speaker Nancy Pelosi had to agree to give away 85% of all carbon credits issued, free of charge, to the special interests who prop up her Democrats in Congress. Without Pelosi’s giveaway, the C&T bill would have gone down to certain defeat.
So to avoid the looming defeat of the C&T bill, House Democrats, flogged by Pelosi and Obama, agreed to forfeit 85% of the government’s expected income from auctioning carbon credits.
There is no possible way that the Democrats can now enact their socialized healthcare system without heavily taxing private health benefits, and raising taxes on the middle class — both of which Obama repeatedly promised not to do when he was campaigning.
*************************************
Smokey,
You are right – but did you know that the same CO2 credit giveaway happened in Europe. Reportedly there are companies that now have CO2 credits worth more than the entire remainder of the corporation.
This is how you get people to do highly immoral things – you give them huge sums of money.
But an honest auction of credits would not help either – industry cannot afford to pay for this global warming fraud.
Jack:
I said nothing negative about Alabama. I could have said Idaho or Iowa and made the same point. That you don’t see much about those places on TV. But you do see plenty about how great it would be to migrate into a golden blessed place like CA.
You would also see NYC and to a lesser extent Chicago, Miami, San Francisco, etc. US shows and foreign versions of our magazines are seen and read around the world. So which part of the US is a potential immigrant going to think might be his entry point?
Look at it this way. When we think of Canada what comes to mind? It isn’t the North or the prairies, it is Vancouver, Toronto, etc. Because that is what gets media attention.
But I would rather be a naive yankee than cast slurs at them 150 years after the Civil War. I am from Tennessee. Bill in Vigo first responded about Alabam but then continued with an intelligent comment.
I am part of the CA sane drain. Washington St is going down the same gurgler. 10 years ago I read that 200K jobs had left CA… for other states. I wonder what that number is now. CA and other Dem. controlled states sure prove the truth of the title of Michael Savage’s recent book: “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder”.
JohnA 20:41:0. I am sorely afraid that the scenario that you have looming in your near future is one that a great many Americans are facing. My wife and I are both now disabled. ( I worked until I literally fell over with cancer.) We were awarded the custody of 4 grandchildren due to the neglect of their mother and multiple fathers. Due to both legal and illegal drug abuse.) We are looking at the possibility of very hard times in the near future also due to the lack of work available to us. (yes you are allowed to do some very limited work.) if able to find work that is within our now limited physical abilities. We are Americans and we will find a way to raise these children. It may not be comfortable but it will be successful. John I am proud of you, you haven’t whined, you haven’t expressed doubt, and you still have faith in the ability of our nation to survive the best efforts of very poor politicians with more interest in the protection of the party than the protection of the American people. This is the great thing about this blog and Anthony deserves great credit in that he attracts such strong followers to his posts and positions. The people that visit here are for the most part problem solvers and their opinions are greatly appreciated by this poor “conservative” with a belief that you are responsible for your own actions. There is a passage in the “Good Book” that implies that if you don’t work you don’t eat. Perhaps our leaders should be introduced to this thought. That should certainly level the “playing field” and the wealth would be spread according to the fruits of your own labor and your taking responsibility for your on predicament. Again thanks for enduring my rant.
Bill Derryberry
“I shall just wait for the forthcoming avalanche of foreclosures and perhaps pick up one or three of them! I want them all by the seaside.”
Surely you understand that seaside homes will go to the politically connected Democrats.
Rick Sharp (21:06:49) :
California has become a showcase for failed liberal policies. The end could come soon when banks will no longer accept state IOU’s and no more financing is available.
And civil servants will wander the streets in search of sustenance.
Steve in SC wrote:
The long and short of it there are three choices.
1. Vote the bastards out.
2. Move
3. Armed insurrection.
**************
I already did No. 2 after figuring out staying in CA was a losing battle with the culls (logging term) we kept voting in to office. So took my CALPERS and ran. (The only good thing Clinton ever did was to sign the Income Source law that stopped CA from coming after people and taxing their retirement even though they no longer lived in the state.)
Now as for No. 3 that sounds like the next big thing, especially if Cap and Tax passes nationwide. After the second civil war, I figure there will be areas of the former US in constant insurrection and we’ll probably be down to the 35 States.
Accumulating gold, can goods, and lots of ammo.
The long and short of it there are three choices.
1. Vote the bastards out.
2. Move
3. Armed insurrection.
4. Refuse to pay the tax.
How many state officials and police does California have? I bet the business community outnumbers them. How many court hearings can they schedule? Flood the court system and watch the whole charade fall on it’s butt.
This is what we did in UK to defeat the Poll Tax. It worked.
Organise. Set up communication through local meetings and statewide encrypted email. The authorities dislike Gnu Privacy Guard for a reason. They can’t intercept and identify ‘ringleaders’.
Plan. Find out the capacity of the court system and Jails.
Mutual support. Help those brave enough to be in the front line come the time the state starts prosecuting. United, you will not be defeated.
Publicize. Make sure the public knows what you are doing and why. Make sure they know how much the cost of goods and services will increase due to the tax.
With public opinion behind you, you will win.
It’s been said in the past that today’s fads in California will be the future fads for the rest of the country. This CO2 fad may finally end that streak when the rest of the country sees California bleeding.
My neighbors will hate me for this, but…
Western Oregon has mild winters and beautiful summers, if you can stand the constant drizzle. Housing is half the price of CA. There are no jobs — we have the highest unemployment in the country — and a one party government, the Idiot Party, but otherwise it’s the nicest place to live in the US of A. We have no sales tax. None. If the price tag on the item says $9.98, that’s what you pay at the cash register. Our school system is worthless, including higher ed, which is lower than most, but our home schooled kids score tops in the country. The pace of life is slower, the culture mediocre, and people are generally very nice. Small businesses here are really small, and barely make the rent, and the bankruptcy rate is sky high, but people get by somehow.
I grew up in CA and moved to OR when I was 21, more than 35 years ago. I have never regretted it for one minute. I shudder involuntarily whenever I visit CA. My body hates it there. Oregon has many faults and drawbacks, but it is 1,000 percent better.
Not that I’m holding out a welcome mat. Please don’t Californicate Oregon. But frankly, we could use your money, if you wanted to sell out there and invest here. And we could use some more folks that weren’t kneejerk members of the Idiot Party, IMHO.
Do me a favor, though. Don’t tell anyone I said any of the things I just said.
Allan,
” Reportedly there are companies [in EU] that now have CO2 credits worth more than the entire remainder of the corporation”
This is another amazing thing about the timing of cap&trade. These credits are a weird new form of financial derivative that few people understand. They have no tangible backing but exchange for real money. If there is a sudden increase in efficiency somewhere in a high emissions part the economy (say, a new invention) there would suddenly be more carbon credits than anyone would want. There is no reason to hold a credit in excess of what you need for immediate production, so the immediate effect would be to move the market price to nearly zero (low enough and speculators will pick them up to sell into a future recovery; but this relies on the government not issuing more). The company with credits at 50% of total equity will see it’s value halve, which might not seem to matter if they got them for free. But if they are like the companies I know (listed on the ASX) they will have debt levels close to the maximum that banks allow (because debt is cheaper than equity) so the loss of value in CO2 credits will result in breaches in loan covenants and the banks will start asking for their money back. They can sell their credits but the whole cause of the problem is the collapse of the credit market so they will get next to nothing for them. But they will do it anyway because there is no point selling anything else while they already have surplus credits. So the credit market falls even more. Now this kind of thing happens already (eg it’s underway right now in commercial real estate) but it would be much worse with CO2 credits because they have no intrinsic value, unlike office buildings. Waiting at the bottom of the market are the investment banks and broking firms. With global warming they get their profits during the next hot summer, with global cooling the next cold winter. In fact, with global operations and global credits (the IPCC would willingly administer this for just an 0.5% transaction fee) this could be a constant torrent of gold.
tallbloke (23:23:39) Quote: “This is what we did in UK to defeat the Poll Tax. It worked.”
Yes it did, and it also worked well in helping India get independance before that. In our current style of Western Shamocracy (or Republic come to that), civil disobedience is the way to go.
What’s also happening in the UK is a thriving ‘black economy’. If you know where to go it’s easy to obtain heavily taxed items like alcohol, tobacco and even diesel. at much lower prices than from legitimate sources. If you need a tradesman it’s easy to find good willing do the work much cheaper than, providing you pay with cash.
I’m sure the same can apply in CA – just cut up your credit cards and remember ‘cash is king’.
Allan M R MacRae (21:02:20) : Wherever I go must have adequate water – this leaves out much of Nevada, doesn’t it?
Um, no. Nevada has lots of adequate water, just not as rainfall in the central plain. It comes from the mountains near Carson City and Reno has a river through it. Down near Las Vegas / Henderson, it has Lake Mead to deliver the Colorado River water (shared with Arizona, so they have a growing corner too). My favorite spot was Laughlin (that has a coal slurry pipeline from the mine to the powerplant, so power is assured) and river water running through town. If you want, you can choose to live on the Arizona side of the river. Both are growing.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=laughlin+nevada&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Close behind it is the strip from Reno / Sparks down through Carson City and ending near Smith, Nevada (guess why 😉 that also has river water from the Sierra Nevada. If you like city life, Reno, if you like farms and country, Smith, if you like mixed middle America with light industry, Sparks. Government work and “office industry”, Carson City. And a secluded retirement / leisure lifestyle (or work in same) Laughlin. Of course, if you are up to your eyeballs in money and like the ultimate, life on the Nevada Shore of Lake Tahoe is hard to beat…
Las Vegas is the big entertainment center, and Henderson is the retirement / bedroom extension. Over the hill at the foot of the Boulder Dam is Boulder City. Devoted to boating and rural recreation. A bit straight laced for my tastes, but if you want Nevada without the casinos, bars, exotic dancers, brothels, etc. it was a dry town for quite a while and still proud of it’s heritage as a clean cut place.
FWIW, I have 2 siblings living in Nevada now. It’s in my “top 4”. Also on the list are Texas (Hill country, Austin, maybe Dallas) and Tennessee in this wonderful valley from Oak Ridge down to near Georgia. And Florida just north of Orlando (minimum hurricane risk, short drive to either coast, big city nearby, semi-rural lifestyle, Disney World…)
States with no income tax include Wyoming, Alaska, Texas, Nevada, Washington, South Dakota and Florida. New Hampshire and Tennessee tax interest and dividends only.
I also liked Washington a lot, but my spouse doesn’t like cold… and isn’t all that fond of cool and rain either.
We’ve put a few years into looking, and those places made the short list…
So watts left – New Mexico? Parts of Nevada? Has to be warm in winter,
Well, warm implies that southern Nevada would be OK, but South Texas or Florida would be great. If you don’t like humidity, stick with Laughlin / Las Vegas / Boulder. If you like humidity, go with Florida. 50 / 50, Texas. The Tennessee valley gives a nice warm-ish 4 seasons, protected somewhat from hurricanes and tornadoes by hills on each side. Same hills tend to mostly keep out the very cold Canada Express air flows.
Polite suggestions please.
Does “take me with you” qualify as a polite suggestion ? 😉
There was a joke during socialism: students in Armenian University ask their professor:
“Mr Professor, is it possible once to built a communism in Armenia?”
“Well, yes, but .. why not to try it in Azerbaijan first?”
(Armenians and Azerbaijanis were definitely not in love)
Or as somebody other told – “the best cure against socialism is to implement it for some time.”
Carl Yee (22:35:08) : Accumulating gold, can goods, and lots of ammo.
You left out “dry goods” and a Diesel vehicle (can run on salad oil, jet fuel and other interesting things if needed 😉 and yes, I’ve done it. Pre- 1986 era with Bosch fuel injection pumps are most forgiving of strange fuels…)
chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/food-storage-systems/
chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/crisis-kits-and-preparedness-packs/
While I believe in being prepared, I also am hopeful that we will vote the clowns out and / or pass a voter initiative to stop the worst of the insanity. Then again, my spouse has given the “go ahead” to bug out sometime in the next 2 years. My neighbors move out to S. America early next year… they own the land now. I’m invited to visit… and stay…
We’ll see.
FWIW, I had cause to drive across Silicon Valley in the prime commute direction at prime morning rush hour about a month ago. I did that drive for about a decade and a half. I was expecting Hell. Normally, I had it timed that I got to the freeway on ramp by 6:20 AM or it took an extra hour to go 20 miles. That day, I got out of the house at 7:30 AM. That ought to have been catastrophic. At least 20 minutes stuck 2 lights back at the on ramp, then stop and go jam on the freeway.
I was astounded to find that their was NO ONE in front of me at the light, at the intersection to the on ramp, or on the onramp. Once on the freeway it was 65 to 70 mph the whole way, only slowing to 60 at intersections with other major freeways and highway exits (101, El Camino, 280). Most of the time I had 8 to 10 car lengths to the next car. Basically, there was no real commute traffic… Just amazing.
Coupled with all the industrial property “for lease” signs I’ve seen, it sure looks to me like Silicon Valley is significantly packed up and moved out…
Even if California changes the mantra from “Tax beatings will continue until business morale improves” it will take a long time to rebuild a vibrant tax base and employment demand. The people who are staying are the ones getting transfer payments or not needing a job. Retired, pension, education grants, etc., and the Mexican immigrants working in all the restaurants and service industries. Folks on minimum wage don’t pay much income tax. Oh, and employees of the various governments.
But you can’t build a stable state on government workers and aid recipients. You need someone to fund the operation, and they are gone; or going…
.
There are many noxious emissions that should be curbed and deleted, ranging from heavy metals to carcinogens.
Who to they pick on plant-food as their prime target?
.
Anthony’s comment sent me looking at Carson City, which appears to have sufficient water (Lake Tahoe Allan M R MacRae (21:02:20) : )
Population as of the census of 2000, there are 52,457 people, 20,171 households, and 13,252 families residing in the city. The population density is 366 people per square mile (141/km²). There are 21,283 housing units at an average density of 148/sq mi (57/km²). The racial makeup of the city is 85.30% White, 1.80% Black or African American, 2.40% Native American, 1.77% Asian, 0.14% Pacific Islander, 6.46% from other races, and 2.12% from two or more races.20% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race.
There are 20,171 households, out of which 29.80% have children under the age of 18 living with them, 50.00% are married couples living together, 11.00% have a female householder with no husband present, and 34.30% are non-families. 27.80% of all households are made up of individuals and 11.00% have someone living alone who is 65 years of age or older. The average household size is 2.44 and the average family size is 2.97.
The city’s age distribution is: 23.40% under the age of 18, 7.90% from 18 to 24, 28.90% from 25 to 44, 24.90% from 45 to 64, and 14.90% who are 65 years of age or older. The median age is 39 years. For every 100 females there are 106.90 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there are 108.20 males.
The median income for a household in the city is $41,809, and the median income for a family is $49,570. Males have a median income of $35,296 versus $27,418 for females. The per capita income for the city is $20,943. 10.00% of the population and 6.90% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 13.70% of those under the age of 18 and 5.80% of those 65 and older are living below the poverty line.
A Deputy Sheriff’s job seem to be a great position, especially to an Englishman. Look what they want. Must be able to write clear and concise communications and reports. Must be able to provide credible testimony in a court of law. (Of course he’s guilty m’lud, I caught ‘im red ‘anded wiv ‘is ‘and in the till, trust me guv. Would I tell a lie?) MINIMUM AGE: 21 years of age by time of appointment.
http://www.carson-city.nv.us/Index.aspx?page=2045
The Carbon Credit scam is a dream-come-true for the One Worlders.
The basic goal of this dream-world ideology is to level the playing-field across the world. One central component is therefore reducing the wealth of the US and Europe, and increasing the wealth of the Third World.
As you may have noticed most of the cleaner industries (that are NOT given free Carbon Credits) are in the West. Most of the dirty factories (that ARE given free Carbon Credits) are in the Third World.
Also, if you want to open a new plant in the West, you have to buy Carbon Credits. These will often come from a Carbon Offset scam (sorry, ‘scheme’), like saving rain forests and planting trees – in the Third World. In addition, the US and Europe will play the game fairly, while the Third World will be inventing Carbon Credit scams by the million.
The net result of this will be a massive transfer of (your) wealth from the affluent West to the poor Third World – where the corrupt leaders will again waste it all on luxury goods from the West and guns and tanks from Russia. We will then have another round of tin-pot regimes across Africa and Central America battling it out with their neighbours and impoverishing their people, and all achieved with your Green taxes.
Great plan, these One Worlders have….
oops…
That should read: Rhodia is a good example of a company rich in Carbon Credits and poor in operations
http://www.climateark.org/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=84606&keybold=carbon%20credit%20market
henrychance (18:17:22) :
“Joe Romm on Climate progress says less than the cost of a cup of Joe a day. I knew he wasn’t telling the truth.”
He was being environmental with the truth.
Barring frosts in Brazil et al, the price of a cup of coffee will rise 250%+ in the time frame referenced.
Why does not the U.S secede from California?
ralph ellis (03:17:48) :
Good points – the Chinese are loving this.
Strange guilt ridden westerners committing societal suicide
Why on God’s green earth would we want to trade foreign energy dependency on foreign carbon credits dependency?
Washington, how stupid is that?
Cash is King
I have been debt free for over 15 years.
The only legal way to avoid paying taxes is to stop spending money.
So, cut your sending to the bone and let your reps know why you are doing it.
paulID (20:10:05)
My link refered to a story (bucko36 (17:53:57)) and did not refer to the story as a whole. Sorry you didn’t get the connection – I should have been more clear. No one thinks CA is more stupid than I – I would move, but my 80 year parents are here, and I can’t leave them, and they won’t go….
paulID (20:10:05)
My link refered to a story (bucko36 (17:53:57)) and did not refer to the story as a whole. Sorry you didn’t get the connection – I should have been more clear. No one thinks CA is more stupid than I – I would move, but my 80 year parents are here, and I can’t leave them, and they won’t go….
Oops…forgot to say great post! Looking forward to your next one.
California is too big to fail. Imply what you will, based on events of the past nine months and the smugness of California politicians.
If I had a small businees in CA, I would be looking to move. I sold my small manufacturing shop two years ago. We grossed just over $250K, employed six workers fulltime, gave health insurance and vacation benefits. Adding $50K in overhead would have put 1.5-2 employees out of work the first year. The second year would reveal we had to shut down since we couldn’t do enough work to pay the bills. Passing on the costs to the customer might eventually work, but it would take years for the customer to acquiesce to 50-100% increase in product cost. There would be no way to succeed, no point in doing the work. Sounds just like what the Dems want, so their benevelent governing can provide for all. They don’t get that without business and jobs there are no taxes to collect to provide that idyllic benevolence.
Brendan (18:10:11) :
The story is allegorical rather than strictly true. If you don’t think that the same can happen in an economy, then one only needs look at the USSR under communism. Bread lines, black market toilet paper, etc.
That road is what we have voted ourselves here.
California has been driving business away for a long time. I lived there from
1968 to 1975 and wondered why my employer had its warehouse in
Nevada while most of the customers were along the coast. The answer was
the inventory tax. Moving items there and back was cheaper than the tax.
I heard, but never confirmed, that the tax was based on the inventory on
a particular day, so firms moved everything away before tax day and
moved everything back after tax day, but the law was changed to use the
average inventory level, so they just closed the local warehouse.
Carbon Credits are a license to print money for big corps. During the California energy crisis a few years back, big companies in the Northwest shut down and sold their cheap contracted energy supplies to California. They were more profitable doing that then producing a product.
layne Blanchard (19:16:03) :
I’m with Mike D and Ron de Haan, The proper approach is to call this what it is: Absolute unbridled stupidity. (My view) –> All references to “Carbon” anything must be accompanied with adjectives that will force a confrontational debate: Fantasy, eco-zealotry, absurd, hoax, ridiculous, pointless, unnecessary, false, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Whenever I hear the word “carbon” uttered from the mouth of an AGW True Believer, I just ask why he or she calls CO2 “carbon.” An unlikely clever response might be “because burning fossil fuels releases carbon from the bowels of the Earth,” to which you can respond, “and twice as many atoms of oxygen, but the point is that carbon dioxide is a compound with none of the properties of the element carbon.”
Interesting to see this debate raging, from far away (NZ).
Megan McArdle has a lovely quote that fits this schemozzle perfectly, even though it’s context is the funding of healthcare. Link:
http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/07/funding_health_care_with_a_surtax.php
And the quote:
“There’s a reason that most countries do not attempt to fund large welfare states with a very progressive income tax, the way we do*. The income of the wealthy is fungible, mobile, and volatile. These are not strengths from the vantage of the tax system. Paying for a huge new entitlement which will, at best, grow steadily during downturns, should not be done with a tax that will plummet the way progressive income tax revenues seem to during a depression. See: California, State of.”
Fungible, mobile and volatile……
Oh, and I’m going to steal that IowaHawk link – priceless.
For those looking to move, please do not consider the south central west coast of Florida.
We like our uncrowded roads, our uncrowded beaches, our uncrowded stores and restaurants.
RE: “Does anybody know why California keeps gaining so many people despite high taxes, high prices, and stupid fact-less restrictive legislature? Why would anyone choose to live with that?”
They are from hell holes like China, India and Mexico. The ones from the first two places are well educated professionals, however, since they grew up in hell holes, things here don’t seem too bad to them. The ones from the last place not only have the hell hole factor but are also barely literate in most cases. And then, to boot, all three of these groups are fecund. It will be interesting to see how tolerant their kids are of all the BS here.
RE: E.M.Smith (02:19:31) :
Checking in here just a bit to your north, a bit more out in the boonies (“SF hinterlands” I term it, I’ll leave it up to folks to guess the possibilities). Ditto on the traffic experience. As for $$$, I sadly report that my revenue stream is about 57% of what it was 3 or 4 years ago. Still nothing to sneeze at but dang, that is definitely a DEPRESSION at the individual level, recession is too weak word.
too weak A word …
Anthony, I may be coming late to the party, but let me suggest that if you’re thinking about relocating to Texas, you don’t want to go to Austin. The state gummint and largest university are there, and you know what that means. North Texas (that part of Texas south of the Red River) is a nice place. You can have as much energy as you want in Dallas or Fort Worth, or a calm, quiet life elsewhere. Pretty good sailing just east of Dallas County (ahem). A wonderful cultural district in Fort Worth. Beautiful countryside. You would be most welcome!
Juraj V. (01:51:41) :
Communism is that long, hard road from capitalism to capitalism.
Anthony, and all other capitalists are more than welcome in Texas. No state income tax. Oil is king. Co2 is a birthright. Come one, come all… Texas-style gummint is the future, California style tax and burn is the past…
Let’s build on a real foundation for our children. Why save AIG? Because they hold the bloated retirement accounts of our servants? What a joke… it’s our country, our money and our future. Let the bureaucrats who have served so little receive only a little. No more $$$ for the UN.
It may be time to build some walls…
I am staying. This it the line in the sand. This is where the realists are going to strangle Al Gore’s baby. In it’s California cradle.
I am going to repeal AB32. Me.
All by my lonesome if I have to, but it will go smoother with your help.
You have a business in California? What’s cheaper, packing up and relocating to the deserts of Nevada, bending over while the democrats and their braindead following try to extinguish the human footprint (ie: paying up the $50K), or paying someone to write up the repeal, getting the necessary petition signatures, putting it on the ballot, then watching the stupid looks on the democratic legislatures faces as it is repealed by over 2/3rds majority in supposedly liberal California?
I know which one of those options I like.
I am staying.
I am going to repeal AB32. Me. This is the line in the sand. The great battle of our time.
papertiger (19:37:10) :
I am going to repeal AB32. Me.
All by my lonesome if I have to, but it will go smoother with your help.
I am going to repeal AB32. Me. This is the line in the sand. The great battle of our time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I and our other fellow Californians are going to help you, papertiger. We’re going to sign your petition and flush AB32 down the toilet with our votes.
papertiger, and others who wish to repeal AB 32.
California Assemblyman Dan Logue already has a bill authored to do just that. He could use your support. The bill is AB 118.
http://arc.asm.ca.gov/member/3/?p=article&sid=209&id=219065
Rodger
The problem with that is it has to pass through the legislature and then get signed by Arnold.
Neither of those things are going to happen.
As in all thinks moral and prudent that happen in Calif, this has to go over their heads. A repeal referendum of the general public is the only way.
Thanks for the tip though. If Dan Logue can write an assembly bill, he can write a State proposition.
Half way home. 😉
“…Printing money is a signal of the end – scrip and IOUs are weak cousins. Rule by martial law and by gangs of deputized thugs usually follows.
But countries are durable and hard to break. Sometimes recovery arrives in the most improbable guise, when all seems to have failed, and the politicians seem mad.”
“…Wealth is stuff, in particular it is stuff that makes life comfortable….”
Oil, Food, Money and Politics – they are all intertwined so I suggest all here at Watts up learn about MONEY vs WEALTH and the Federal Reserve bank. This is key to understanding the reasons behind the supposed “Banking Crisis”, the “Food Safety bills” and “Global Warming”
Money is metal coins, currency (bank IOU’s) and credit (fairy dust). US Money’s only value is in its use as a medium of exchange instead of direct barter. (pay those taxes with chicken eggs next time)
Wealth is land and the labor to turn it into useful goods/food. The food safety bills make paperwork errors a crime for farmers with up to a million in fines per occurance. This is an easy way for the US government to confiscate farmland. (Environmentalism is designed to retain the mineral wealth of that land until the bankers can confiscate it) http://yupfarming.blogspot.com/2009/04/central-food-patriot-act-hr-875.html
Food Safety Bill, HR875 was jumped on by me and many others so was withdrawn. Obama set up a committee from the USDA and FDA to implement it by bypassing Congress instead. http://www.growingproduce.com/news/avg/?storyid=2146
The key to what is happening is fractional reserve banking. It means when the bank loaned you $100,000 for a house they really lent you $3,000 and the rest was fairy dust. However they collect the entire $100,000 plus interest that represents your labor. So tell me how banks could “fail” with a great setup like this. The Original Federal Reserve Act required a fractional reserve of 40% so a bank could fail, with only 3% bank money invested you really have to F…Up!
Thats to the “banking Crisis”, Obama doubled the money supply (treasury bonds) and given the use of fractional banking to turn ever three dollars worth of bonds the banks buy into $100 of US money, the stability and status of US currency will soon take a nose dive. China is already restless calling for a world currency to replace the dollar in international trade.
“Luo Ping, a director-general at the China Banking Regulatory Commission, put it more bluntly:
“We hate you guys. Once you start issuing $1 trillion-$2 trillion [$1,000bn-$2,000bn] . . .we know the dollar is going to depreciate, so we hate you guys but there is nothing much we can do.”
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/the-ticker/2009/03/13/signs-of-stress-warren-buffetts-downgrade-chinas-treasury-jitters.html
I did a check of the 1970 vs 1996 census/labor statistics. Manufacturing jobs have decreased. Government jobs are supposedly the same but given EPA, OSHA et al that has to be a artifact of switching how they count jobs now. The Carbon Tax will finish off the decline in US manufacturing EPA, OSHA and the World Trade Organization started.
Maurice Strong has setup a “consulting business” in China so Carbon Tax dollars from Gore’s “only sanction carbon exchange” can be invested in China….And when the USA has finally achieved bankruptcy the international bankers will demand a “land for debt swap” or something similar to World Bank/IMf SAP that has bankrupted many third world farmers. http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/IMF_WB/Budhoo_IMF.html
Our politicos are not crazy, they are bought and paid for….and not by US citizens.
Checkout PARTNERS IN CRIME: The Clintons, the Bushes, and BCCI
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/347
(Note the source is from the democrats…)
Starr himself (bank rolled the Clintons) may have been personally involved in BCCI-related corruption. Here’s what a former senior editor for Forbes has to say:
http://192.80.61.73/view/1996/norman.html
“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” Maurice Strong, father of “global warming” Al Gore’s good buddy and advisor to the World Bank.
“A Primer on Money” by the house Banking Committee is a surprisingly easy read that explains a lot (http://www.devvy.com/pdf/2006_October/Patman_Primer_on_Money.pdf)
If the Right, Center AND Left realize we are all being brainwashed and fleeced by greedy bankers perhaps we have a chance to fight this intentional murder of our country.
California legislator reacts to the study on AB 32’s affect on small businesses:
http://www.rocklintoday.com/news/templates/roger_niello.asp?articleid=7885&zoneid=78
High bills and a bankrupt State caused by borrowing, spending and regulating.
The same formula is applied on a National level causing the debt thermometer to point at staggering $ 55.000,- per household.
And the end of this roller coaster ride is NOT in sight:
http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2009/07/borrowing-spending-and-regulating-oh-my.html
How about the UN suing investment advisors for advising clients to invest in a project that isn’t green, like say a copper mine, oil company, or a company that makes charcoal fired barbecues!!! I guess this is the face of the new “free enterprise”. How much of this are people going to take? California’s laws may be a trial balloon to see if people will do anything about it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8607095
“Investment advisors and asset managers could be sued for negligence if they do not consider the environment and other social issues when making investment decisions, a United Nations report said on Tuesday.
Money managers have a legal responsibility to raise environmental, social and governance (ESG) issues when tendering investment and advising clients, a law expert and one of the report’s authors said.
“(There is a) very real risk that (the advisor) will be sued for negligence on the grounds that they failed to discharge their professional duty of care to the client by failing to raise and take into account ESG considerations,” said Paul Watchman.”
Roger Niello is my guy in the Assembly. I voted for him. He owes me.
Something else about Niello – he has spent the last year studying in detail the referendum process. It had to do with funky language used by AG Brown vis a vi the gay marriage prop, but experience is experience. It’ll work here too.
The study in question about the high cost of complying with AB 32, the Global Warming Solutions Act is no doubt a fine study. However, other similar studies have shown very little cost of complying, so unfortunately, we have a fairly common clash of “equal and opposing” experts. Time will tell if the cost is really as high as $50,000 per small business. For a historical precedent, when the Clean Air Act was first passed in 1970, imminent business collapse was predicted by some, but of course the vast majority of affected businesses came up with innovative and cost-effective solutions to reducing their pollution.
As a life-long Californian, I love it here in northern California and would recommend anybody that wants to leave should feel free to do so – the state is getting a little crowded. I have little love for southern California, for many reasons, but if anybody wants to leave there, it will probably help out the overpopulation problem there as well. Sad to see so many California-bashers are willing to criticize our Golden State. Sometimes it seems like everybody in the world wants to move here, so there must be something about California that appeals to people. Maybe more bad news about our anti-business environment will keep out more people, but unfortunately, I think we will always have more people than we can handle.
It’s not about the “Pollution”.
AB32 doesn’t have anything to do with cleaner air; it is simply a taxing bill.
California is burdened with State employee pension programs that simply are not sustainable in a capitalist society. They work for a few years; and then retire often at age 55, with a taxpayer funded gravy train that within five years has them collecting as much or more than they were getting before they retired. And many of them simply move on to another town, another agency, and go back to work at another excessive state salary; while still collecting their unsupportable “pension”.
The State Constitution needs to be changed to make ALL State employees including the legislature subject to the same laws that everyone else is; and they should be required to pay into the Social security program just like every other worker, and that social security program should be the only state employee “pension” fund; other than what the employee wants to salt away in a 401K type program on their own. In any case, no public employee should be able to colelct a dime of any taxpayer funded retirement, until they retire; and that should be suspended if they take any other government job.
Congress is exempting itself and also the President, from the miseries of the Socialized medicine plan they are about to land on us, without anyone in the entire Congress having read any of it; they don’t even know just who it was that wrote it.
It’s time to require that each Bill in the Congress be limited strictly to a single issue; with no amendments relating to anything not germane to that issue; and all Federal budgets should be restricted to cover only expenditures in the year in which it is passed; no expenditures approved for ANY spending in any subsequent year.
These chumps are approving spending that will not happen till years after they leave office.
Oh and I would make all government employees tax exempt; no income tax for them; of course their salaries would be reduced accordingly . That would rmeove the phony notion that government employees are taxpayers; they are not; they are tax consumers. I make no value judgement as to whether we need certain government workers; but those we do need should not pay taxes (income) Don’t talk to me about FAIR taxes, and VATs. You can only tax a profit making renewable resource; which is income.
We have millions of retiured folks who paid income taxes all their earning lives, and then when they stop earning, some idiots want to switch the system to a consumption tax, to continue bleeding those folks of what they managed to save.
Government by definition is non profit; hence government workers can’t pay taxes anyway; and getting rid of the beaurocarices that exist just to manage the fictitious tax “payments” that government employees go through the motions for; simply raises the cost of government for no purpose.
What the heck are we talking about this stuff here for ?
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