Guest post by Steve Goddard
It is easy to become cynical about the motivations of some prominent figures in the global warming movement, but there are a few people who feel passionately enough about their beliefs to put their own life on the line. The Catlin explorers Pen Hadow, Ann Daniels and Martin Hartley are among the most dedicated. They have endured consistent minus 40 degree weather, frostbite, polar bear encounters, frozen sleeping bags, sleepless nights and general misery in their quest to prove that the polar ice caps are warming and melting.
Over the past 24 days they have traveled 84km of their 950km journey to the North Pole, averaging 3.5km per day. Every inch is hard fought across drifting and cracking ice. If their average travel rate were to continue, it would take another 250 days to reach the pole – stretching into the next Arctic winter.
Below are the titles of their most recent blog posts, which hint at the unimaginable difficulties they are facing.
# Mind games
# Like being in a milk bottle
# Frostbite (N.B Graphic Images)
# Spring in our step
# Stabbing pain
# Muscle Immobilisation
# Perran on Power Supplies for the expedition
# The difficulties of filming in such extreme environments
# Chivalry on the ice
# The Quitter
Compare their dedication and grit to Al Gore, who lives in a 20,000 square foot house, has a 150 foot yacht, jet sets around the world, and has made tens of millions of dollars promoting global warming.
No doubt Al is very appreciative of the foot soldiers in his infantry, willing to put their lives on the line for his Nobel cause.
Below is a headline from my personal favorite newspaper the UK Guardian, highlighting the brilliant thought process of AGW entrepreneurs.
Life vests for polar bears on melting ice
To raise awareness for the endangered species, a design company has come up with a life-vest for displaced polar bears.
Read about Polar Bear Life Vests at The Guardian (No, they aren’t made of Gore-tex – Anthony)
So whom do you admire? The entrepreneurs making millions off AGW, or those risking everything to help out the first group (and save the planet.) I know which group I would prefer to belong to.
One more question. If the Arctic really resembled the tropical paradise presented by The Guardian et Al, wouldn’t the explorers have a tough time walking across the (non-existent) ice?
My religion finds it MANDATory to love them as people with souls, but equally, as an engineer and realist who refuses to fall for their propaganda and their “hatred” of the western world, its civilization and the real science of climate – they are – bluntly – fools.
Let us hope they do not become polar bear bait, or that our money is not wasted recusing them from this folly.
They certainly have moxy, no doubt about that. Have they measured any ice yet?
We can feel empathy for the pain a person who repeatedly bashes themselves in the head must be feeling, but in the end it their suffering is their own fault. But few who endure such pain do so for ideological reasons. Yet that is exactly why these two are trying to reach the pole, is it not? Lenin would have called them useful idiots.
While one may admire the courage of the members of the Catlin Expedition, one’s respect for their intelligence, not so much. The idiocy of proving “Global Warming” at minus 40 (C or F, take your pick) should sink into even the most closed of minds. I have experienced the Arctic up close and personal and it is not a place for amateurs and certainly not with modern fabrics. Witness the video of the intrepid explorer trying to get into his jacket. He should have accepted the non-green solution and adopted a sealskin outfit and fur mukluks. Tents in the Arctic are merely a means of committing suicide slowly, Pathetic really, however noble the intent.
Interesting. I was going to do an off-topic bit on another post but you beat me to it. I admire the bears! I have two comments:
1. The two polar bears picture has “a story.”
Here: http://newswithviews.com/Williams/carole7.htm
Here: http://www.whoi.edu/beaufortgyre/dispatch2004/dispatch02.html
2. Regarding the Catlin Arctic Survey Is my EXCEL spreadsheet flaky?
> Today is Day 25
Today they report: Total distance traveled as 94.45 km
Yesterday : 84.45 km
difference = 10.0 km <<<
Yesterday’s report: Estimated distance to N.P. 870.05 km
Today : ditto 824.51 km
difference = 45.54 km <<<
I am thinking the two entries marked with “<<<” ought to be equal.
Help me ought here, folks?
Are they still out there? I heard Rush Limbaugh say yesterday, Mar. 25, that they had give up and gotten into the Twin Otter and gone back to civilization.
Anthony asks:
“So whom do you admire? The entrepreneurs making millions off AGW, or those risking everything to help out the first group (and save the planet.) I know which group I would prefer to belong to.”
Crooks who are perfectly willing to foist a destructive lie to enrich themselves or delusional religious fanatics, willing to die, who do their bidding??
Don’t I get another choice??
REPLY: FYI It is a guest post by Steve Goddard. – Anthony
Self-serving, self aggrandizing, publicity stunts by Global Warming idiots? No, I don’t believe it! :]
I feel sorry for them for being gullible enough to put themselves in harm’s way to prove the discredited theories of “Big Al.” I had a gut feeling early on that AGW was baloney.
Amundsen and John Rae (among many others) before him easily travelled around the Arctic in Winter. Rae could easily cover 84 km in a couple days on snowshoes and Amundsen was mauled and nearly killed by a Polar Bear. Of course these fellows knew how to build a snow house and were not so foolish to travel without a gun.
There’s something about martyrs: they will die to be right. Even when they’re wrong. History is filled with similar examples.
I suppose now that they have been thwarted from their goal due to extreme arctic conditions we’ll have to endure endless accounts of their failure in the mainstream media. Or not.
LOL
One for the memory hole!
“I suppose now that they have been thwarted from their goal due to extreme arctic conditions we’ll have to endure endless accounts of their failure in the mainstream media. Or not.”
I haven’t heard about them leaving, when did that happen?
Crooks who are perfectly willing to foist a destructive lie to enrich themselves or delusional religious fanatics, willing to die, who do their bidding??
Don’t I get another choice??
Root for the asteroid?
I just hope they don’t have to shoot a polar bear…..
…. I’m too young to be wearing adult diapers every time I log on.
I am a Canadian. For an example of “unknown hazards” in dealing with this type of cold … when it was -40C one morning a year ago in Northern Alberta and I caught wind that GM Allison Transmissions were self destructing when vehicles were started in that weather … we left my wife’s 3/4 ton truck parked and took my Prius instead (with the hot coolant thermos). The truck sat 3 days until it warmed up to -30 and then she went and got the chip reprogrammed for the transmission. Dealing with temperatures where normal carbon steel cracks like glass is not childs play and being out in the middle of nowhere complicates the issues.
So when dealing with “known hazards” with this kind of cold, I have difficulty having anything but derision for these guys. If they were smart they would admit they didn’t prepare properly and didn’t know what they were doing … and come home and do it next year with better gear. A safe return home for these guys without endangering anyone else will be a challenge from the sounds of it.
If this is the standard for admiration, then we all can wonder with awe at those stubborn Canadian teenagers with no hat or gloves, tight jeans, fall jackets, and sneakers waiting for the school bus at -40C.
John F. Hultquist (19:47:08) :
I believe the 94.45 km distance is the distance covered by foot, crawl, swim, whatever. It is neither a straight line due north nor are they on a stable surface. The ice is moving them back toward their starting point.
I would be content to see all three of them freeze to death or be eaten by ‘endangered’ polar bears. That would teach the world something. I am tired of publicity stunts disguised as science performed to achieve a predetermined result. The only thing they will measure is the depth of their stupidity. They have put their lives at risk, and, much worse, are also risking the lives of those who have to fly supplies and, perhaps, rescue to them.
Looking at his poor, frozen lips, its hard for me to think he really believes things are warming up!!!
Steven nice juxtaposition of the Caitlin explorers to Al Gore.
If a picture was worth a thousand words…then this comparison is worth a million.
I follow you, man. Excellent contrast between the two….and I know which one I would want to be, too.
Well recently, I reserved a website http://www.globalgoring.org.
On an earlier post….Bateman had suggested we do a billboard campaign showing Gore’s sorry ass with the quote about the NH icepack melting within five years…so i said lets do it. And I paid to reserve that domain.
If I ever get some time I want to make something of it because I believe the world has been “gored” and that bastard should pay!
Interestingly….watching about polar bears right now on the Science Channel showing polar bears. How apropos.
Well thanks for that post. Very enlightened.
Chris
Norfolk, VA
The video of them getting dressed in frozen clothes is amazing. I don’t envy them in the least! I’ve been in -10F actual temperature before and it was WAY too cold, and the -30F wind chill was unbearable. I was wearing a lot more clothes than them at the time too!
I really hope they make it off the ice alive.
I have no sympathy or admiration for them. As they planned their message of global doom and gloom caused by evil carbon is being disseminated to millions of undiscriminating people whose sole source of news and current affairs is dominated by news organisations with similar agendas to their own.
It’s all politics, nothing more, nothing less.
As self described ‘experienced polar explorers’ they knew the conditions they’d confront.
Though after reading their biographies I don’t see much evidence of ‘exploration’ in the sense I understand it.
None of the three on this trip appear to have a record of scientific endeavour, but instead have a history of writing lucrative best selling books about their exploits.
It’s more the, ‘I skied across Antarctica with 3 women’, sort of middle class adventure than painstaking scientific expeditions with their measuring, probing, sampling recording and reporting.
Pen Hadow and friends are just taking part in a dangerous stunt. Their equipment purportedly measures the thickness of the ice in a single location (which happens to be moving south or north or east depending on the moment) each time they stop – there is no prior data of the same sort with which their readings can be compared. What possible use is a single haphazard string of unrepeatable measurements?
Hadow and his crew are not scientists but activists seeking column inches. Their website reveals as much. It’s all a ‘twitter’ with urgent ‘news’ and breathless attention seeking commentary.
This so called ‘Arctic Survey’ is a politically motivated stunt by it’s own admission. It has absolutely no scientific merit and is just one of several similar stunts designed to produce propaganda to be used in an attempt to influence this year’s climate change gab fest in Copenhagen.
However at the rate they are travelling they’ll miss the conference all together…
Pity [/sarc].
So keep on playing those mind games together,
Doing the ritual dance in the sun,
Millions of mind guerrillas,
Putting their soul power to the karmic wheel
— John Lennon
I’ll admire the businessman when he safely puts life vests on 50 polar bears without being harmed by ecofreaks. Or bears.
Off topic but, Is this an opportunity to get some skeptic input to the upcoming National Academies meetings which will address climate change. Input and questions by some of our more learned scientists and solar/weather experts might have some impact? I have read some of their reports and what I have read has been very pro AGW.
As I read this, it is at least an opportunity for a number of people to ask some pointed questions.
http://www.americasclimatechoices.org/input.shtml?utm_medium=etmail&utm_source=National%20Academies%20Press&utm_campaign=Community+Builder+3%2f26&utm_content=Downloader&utm_term=
I wonder if they know the ice extent is still increasing?
http://www.nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_timeseries.png
and,
Rachelle, did your mother not tell you that if you can’t say something nice about someone, don’t say anything at all! Relax. Have a piece of chocolate or something.
Did Hillary climb Everest alone? The first white man to scale the mountain was humble enough to accept the assistance of a noble Sherpa, Tenzing Norgay, and shared his accomplishment both in celebration and then in a lifetime of service to the people of Nepal. This service was in deference to their knowledge and assistance in his quest. The fact that the photos of that conquest show only Norgay is a tribute to the disinterest Hillary had with the issue of “who’s on first?”.
Were are the Inuit guides to this pathetic group? Roald Amundsen discarded his European habits and survived two years in the Arctic with the assistance and guidance of The People. I have little but disdain for this over-funded and under-prepared bunch of arrogant preppies. I see absolutely no preparation or consideration of the conditions they might face. It recalls the days of the English Lords, shedding their enui with an excursion to the “Colonies” and occupying Western Canada! The only reason they have “endured” their hardship is their unwillingness to admit their failure. They will need to be rescued from themselves.
Rachelle Young wrote:
Hear, hear! I expect when they finally fly out, there will shortly be a press release announcing a book contract. Then they’ll make like Al Gore and swan around the greenie circles raking in speaking fees.
Neither.
Surely these ‘explorers’ have brains? Were they surrounded by sycophants blinding them by the spectre of Green Glory? When in reality they should have found themselves something useful to do, preferably absolutely nothing to do with the myth of Man Made Global warming.
If they have to give up then – tough! Would I stand on an active high speed railway line waiting for the inevitable result? They can’t see the wood for the trees. Or the meltwater for the ice.
And the radar results are not being transmitted but will be recorded [result massaging, a la Hansen seems almost inevitable] and they are surrounded by US Army devices sending data about ice thickness anyway! Waste of sponsors money and once again the/our Prince of Wales/Wails has backed another of what he would describe as a ‘success’ that most would say is a futile gesture.
Yeees! People who try to find melting ice 40 below always gets my respect, or not. Survival under extreme conditions require a clear head and common sense, a trait not normally found among the extreme AGWers…
The ice extent is not still increasing, rather it is bobbling along near maxima and will soon be decreasing.
Regards
Andy
Just for point of interest, anyone who lives on a lake in a winter climate knows that ice makes a LOT of noise, and the colder it is the noisier it is. It BOOMS, cracks, clicks, pops, bangs, and whatever other onomatopoeic words you can find. Just a few weeks ago when that -32C cold spell hit there was a LOT of noise echoing through the neighborhood from the 42 acre lake I’m beside.
So when I hear them mentioning that the ice is noisily cracking around them, I’m glad they’re in a safe area… because when it melts it does so quite quietly. However, typical of these types of endeavors, they seem either completely oblivious to this fact or are using to dramatize for their own ends. People who don’t understand ice in a cold climate might well believe that the noise is a sign of breakup.
And Steve, I understand the intent behind this post, but I still think they’re idiots. Again, since I live in a winter climate I am aghast at the arrogance of someone attempting this without more thorough preparation AND RESPECT for the Arctic. Here in Calgary we sometimes dip to -40C and people need to be extremely careful just getting from their door to their cars, let alone attempting to travel hundreds of kms on foot. Even just the drive from Calgary to Edmonton, about 2.5 hours, is a challenge for most vehicles during those cold snaps. Oil workers almost HAVE to have large, diesel vehicles, in some cases with special “cold weather” mods, in order to get to the rigs during the winter months.
What is to admire about an expensive publicity stunt wearing a thin cloak of scientific endeavour?
The point of the trip was to confirm a pre determined result, the reason for the trip was to take measurements, have they achieved this?
A publicity stunt pure and simple taking funds that could have been used for actual real science, it seems that generous funding is readily availible for this kind of jolly all they have to do is tag on ‘global warming’ and the cheque book opens like magic.
People jump off tall buildings/climb mountains/swim the channel/sky dive/paddle across oceans and they do these things in the name of adventure, what pray is the difference between these Catlin adventurers and all the others? The Catlin crew wanted the adventure and to fund it they cooked up a wheeze to get funding from people with more money than sense, who is using who here?
This creative idea to go on a jolly using other peoples money isnt new, explorers and adventurers have done this from the time of Columbus, get some dummy with more money then sense and bamboozle them into funding an adventure!
sounds like they are candidates for the Darwin award
I once helped restrain two young women who were trying to enter the cage of a grizzly bear. They had convinced themselves the bear would not harm them because the bear would understand that, “We love him”. I did not admire their foolishness and I do not admire the Catlin Explorers for similar reasons. Foolishness and bravery are two distinctly different traits.
How embarassing for them. Several years ago a young Englishman several times launched his canoe off our New Zealand coast in an attempt to paddle round the world in the roaring 40s. Our coast guard saved him twice and he eventually got kicked out of New Zealand with our collective contempt.
And yet another political expedition, this time to Antarctica:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7962311.stm
http://www.commonwealthexpedition.com/
Eight women representing five continents are planning to reach the South Pole in time to mark the 60th anniversary of the Commonwealth.
The group plans to travel 800km (500 miles) over six weeks, braving sub -30C (-22F) temperatures to reach the heart of Antarctica, in an attempt to raise global awareness on global warming.
Some of the women selected to take part in the adventure had never seen snow before the practice session in Norway.
And one od the selecting criteria was the Awareness Of Climate Change…
which, apparently, the participant from India has more than enough, lecturing people about changing their behavior and starting to wash, dry, and reuse plastic bags (that symbol of our consumerish collective evil).
Steven Goddard. I very much hope this thread of yours is sardonic. Because no one could seriously admire these Catlin people – unless one does in the way that one might admire the bravery of a suicide bomber.
I’m totally cynical myself. I see TV interviews and a book coming. Self-publicists or delusional. You decide.
The mind boggles – if it’s true as it seems, that these three have not learned from (1) the natives (natural fabrics & igloos) (2) Amundsen (dogs and sleds and guns) and (3) have spurned snowmobiles that would facilitate their getting the route covered and ground measurements done and have tolerable sleeping quarters. This doesn’t make it look like a noble challenge, it looks like hubris and idiocy, paid for by newspapers.
Polar bear encounters? Seriously? What are the chances that these guys came across the last remaining polar bear in the world? We all know the polar bear is virtually extinct thanks to there being no snow or ice in the Arctic. Yet these guys manage to find one when they are not busy getting frozen to death. It is almost a shame they didn’t have to shoot it. That would have made for a fabulous headline.
I’m sorry I don’t admire them. I think they are gunning to be martyrs by getting themselves killed for no good reason.
I see lots of planning for a book on climate change and precious little science.
These people would find any reason to do what they are doing. Just check out the the sponsors for the AGW angle
http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/sponsors
Among them
European Climate Exchange & Climate Friendly
It seems the personal equipment suppliers need to do better
“Martin started his day having to sew himself into his sledging jacket, as the zips broke”
“The day’s intense bright sunlight gave them an opportunity to walk with their now sodden sleeping bags on top of their sledges in order to dry them slightly – the bags currently weigh around 3 times their usual weight due to all the moisture they are holding and provide very miserable sleeping conditions.”
Bill Jamison
I really hope they make it off the ice alive.
Amen to that.
I think we should keep in mind how our comments will be viewed and paraded by others if tragedy strikes. Myself, I am critical of the soundness of their motivation, and their funding, but I wish above all else to see them return safely.
“Restoring science to its rightful place”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/susanwatts/2009/01/restoring_science_to_its_right.html
4 YEARS TO SAVE THE WORLD
Life jackets for polar bears!
I’d love to see a video of someone trying to put it on – and how long it lasts with the bear trying to rip it off.
Anyway, doesn’t even look like a good design – I think it would push the bear’s head further down in the water.
Life jackets for polar bears? Bulletproof jackets for tigers? Is that Guardian article serious or pulling my leg?
Next they’ll have crash helmets for chimps to save the planet.
Oh you naughty people, making fun of these people who are genuinely trying to make a point. I have to be frank & say that I’m not too sure what that point actually is, & I’ve already commented on a previous post about Mr Hadow & his likely (66% ala IPCC) reasons for wanng to go somewhere sooooooo cold & formidable. The fact that WUWT has already noted that there are military markers doing the same thing on a long term basis seems to have illuded them.
I think on reflection I would rather join the ranks of those making a LARGE fortune out of AGW, spinning lies & deciet, distortion of the truth & reality, smearing & belittling others who question my rantings of scientific fact according to the faith. My pension wouldn’t look so small then so perhaps I will start to change my views & attack you all! Unfortunately, because of the way I was brought up, educated & trained, to think things through before acting, I just cannot do it, sorry, folks, no guts I’m afraid. I will just have to remain sceptical of everything I see & hear, like my good old Dad used to say, ‘never believe everything you read in the newspapers, hear on the radio, or see on tv’. Perhaps a few more good souls should do likewise in this modern twisted media driven 15 minutes of fame world in which we dwell!
BTW I really don’t know how he does it, but Piers Corbyn had predicted that March in UK would have, cold spells at first, followed by elements of Spring at times, then towards the end rough weather & mainly wet to finish. Well guess what folks, he’s only gone & got it bang on, & from a weather projection a month ago. Poor old Met Office, I do hope DEEP THOUGHT is being properly nutured! 5 x 9 = 42 as ever!
AND just to show I am not without feeling, I watched the BBC 2 doc on the Exon Valdez catastrophe last night, & if accurate was well worth it. However I believe EXON could & should have responded better & taken more responsibility over the issue in Prince William Sound! Having said that, I also believe that whilst it should never have happened, little old delicate wall flower mother nature would & is taking over as she always will, regardless of mankind’s existence. I await the demonisation to come!
While I admire their courage (or fooliness) to engage in such an adventure, I don’t think they really want to prove anything about global warming. In fact, I think they know by now that the arctic is very cold.
However, pretending to organize this expedition in the name of “global warming” secured them a lot of sponsorship which they wouldn’t have gotten otherwise.
correction: foolishness
The Catlin Artic Survey is simply a PR stunt not a scientific study.
Here is their remit; “How long will the Arctic Ocean’s sea ice cover remain a permanent feature of our planet?”
One study along a straight line cannot possibly provide an answer to the question asked.
CAS members know that, we know that, the world is beginning to know that. So the intent of this survey is clear: it is to misinform, to be dramatic, to reinforce the AGW message and to gain maximum publicity in the process.
CAS is simply a holy pilgrimage by the more strident AGW faithful, one that carries a deliberate political message.
The fact that the Artic is not playing ball highlights the utter stupidity of it all.
I thought it was a spoof…like that antarctic trek.
Am I expected to now feel sympathy for a trio of activists too stupid to assessed what they’ve gotten themselves into?
Nature has a a way of eliminating stupid genes. This could turn out to be the case here.
Global Warming Working For You-
http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/133445
On a lighter note….
(there is no less than a whole minute’s worth of warning about the impending profanity at the beginning of this documentary out-take about deep-sea ichthyologists complaining of the cold but I fully understand if it doesn’t get past moderation even if it is very funny in this, currently shivering, persons opinion)
Building up to April 1st…..
I’m sorry. I don’t admire fools.
These hardships are not unimaginable; they are quite predictable.
But then, I live in Canada.
We are all doomed
http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_timeseries.png
Sea ice is not melting, my model tells me that at at the current rate of growth One Million Sq Kilometre will be added by May and Six million kilometres by October of this year.
About the model she’s 38 26 38.
I think these guys probably just believed all the propaganda about the melting arctic and expected it to be sunny, mild and ice free when they got there. They’ll learn.
OT. I’m not sure if anyone else has mentioned Earth Hour is this weekend but last year I purposely turned all our lights on during that hour as a protest against the AGW scam. Looks like this year someone is trying to make it official.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25245689-5009760,00.html
Anthony, perhaps WUWT could support the protest?
I suppose I might admire them if I thought that they were doing it for science*; it looks more to me that they are punching their tickets for a long ride on the crowded AGW gravy train.
*Seems a rather pointless pity party to me.
Couldn’t they just reverse course and take new measurements on the return trip? Surely they could take measurements at the same places with the help of the GPS and show the ice has already gotten thinner . After all, they, Global Warming Enthusiasts, aleady have been using that ‘funny math’ that allows them to make adjustments to actual temperature readings. They set out to prove a theory, not do pure research – this is a publicity stunt. The new headlines: ” Scientists Determine Arctic Ice Is Thinning Rapidly – Had To Cut Expedition Short Due To Dangerous Conditions”
Here’s a picture of Al Gore when he’s not in the public eye
Picture of Al
Best part is they have first hand exposure to the misery a colder climate poses for humanity. (I can just imagine their private jokes about wishing AGW was a fact.)
Perhaps they can now imagine accidentally setting off a very cold spell by tampering with climate. If man can warm the earth, man could possibly OVER COOL the earth. I believe neither, but they should.
The sheer futility and total ignorance of their “research” is shown by these excerpts from the Alaska Science Forum: “Experts on Ice”, January 23, 1991
Article #1014
“For example, to underline the importance of being patient in assessing sea ice, he told of the misadventures of scientists trying to site a major research camp well out on the pack. He explained that the ideal site for such a camp would combine two kinds of ice: thick and stable multi-year ice, marked by substantial hummocks on its surface, should lie adjacent to flat annual ice of size and thickness adequate to serve as a landing field for C-130 supply aircraft.
Pushed by deadlines set in Washington, D.C., where knowledge of sea ice is not very great, the scientists decided to site their camp on ice with low hummocks–too low, in Tuvak’s judgment. It meant the ice was thinner, more likely to come apart if winds and current changed.
They did and it did. A big lead opened right through the camp, separating the
living quarters from the mess hall. The stranded scientists could only watch
their out-of-reach food drift away.
He told of going with a companion on a seal hunt over apparently stable ice, when “far to the north we could hear the ice grinding, grinding together.” He bagged his seal, then realized the ice had fallen silent. The current had changed, and that changed the safety of the ice on which they stood. The hunters escaped back to shore in the nick of time, as the entire raft of ice headed out to sea.”
“Finding the Heartbeat of the Arctic Ocean”, Alaska Science Forum January 28, 1998 Article #1373
“The Arctic Ocean is an ice-covered pool the size of Australia. With its center
near the North Pole, the ocean touches the northern limits of Alaska, Russia,
Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Greenland and Canada. Ice floes–huge hunks of sea ice that bump into one another for years before currents spit them to lower latitudes–cover the ocean like a layer of plastic film on a tub of water.”
How did they identify which bits of ice they were measuring, when did they measure them before and when will they measure them again and how will they know where they are next time? Hopefully there is no next time..
Please feel sorry for Canadians too … it’s bloody cold here!
The term ‘useful idiots’ certainly springs to mind. I’m not sure if they’re useful. But they’re certainly idiots.
Any more of this global warming and we’re all going to freeze to death….
Chris
This is nothing but a PR stunt, and I have absolutely no empathy for any pain that those jokers encounter. It would be different if they were collecting useful scientific data, but they are not. If they die, they should share the Darwin Award for 2009.
This is Pen Hadow’s fourth trip to the Arctic. He loves it there. He is on vacation. What is there to admire?
They have endured consistent minus 40 degree weather, frostbite, polar bear encounters, frozen sleeping bags, sleepless nights and general misery in their quest to prove that the polar ice caps are warming and melting.
I would admire them if they weren’t so stubborn in their beliefs. Any reasonable person would have realized, within a few days of the expedition, that nothing was warming or melting and that the entire expedition was a dangerous waste of time and resources. That they have pressed on, insisting they are right despite the obvious cold and ice all around them, proves they are not rational or reasonable people.
AGW is a faith based cult, not a scientific theory. This expedition demonstrates the futility of even trying to argue with cult members. We have to hope that cooler, more rational heads prevail in this fight. The cult members are a lost cause.
Da poLer beaRz iz gonna dyE. I no diS coz Al Gore toLds me in His mooFie
“Codetech:
So when I hear them mentioning that the ice is noisily cracking around them, I’m glad they’re in a safe area… because when it melts it does so quite quietly. However, typical of these types of endeavors, they seem either completely oblivious to this fact or are using to dramatize for their own ends.”
They are experienced arctic explorers. Little doubt in my mind which of the above scenarios applies.
“And Steve, I understand the intent behind this post, but I still think they’re idiots.”
X2. and X2 to Racheal’s post as well.
The only thing mildly interesting about this is the psychological aspect of how far someone will go in search of that 15 minutes….or trying to stretch the 15 to 30.
The whole thing is just plain silly. If someone wants to walk to the North Pole?…good on ’em. I have no issue with that. No different than mountain climbing. It’s when you wrap the whole thing in a cause that it gets inexcusable, because now you’re impacting other lives, perhaps significantly, AND under false pretenses. And I’m not talking about the science of AGW, I’m talking about the fact that they know that with no comparison, and with drifting ice, their measurements are meaningless in a scientific context.
JimB
More reasons to admire these brave and unselfish souls – from their blog
When they freeze to death on the ice can we count their frozen corpses as additional ice thickness?? The human body is mostly water….
I agree with several above posts, I do not admire crooks nor do I admire fools. The members of this expedition seem to me fools trying to pull a publicity stunt. Not much to admire there either. While I would admit they are not the hypocrit that Al Gore is, that doesn’t make them admirable. What is the “Carbon Footprint” of flying them and their supplies in and out of there? almost certainly greater than mine will be this year.
In a choice between the two, I admire the cleverness of the entrepreneurial shysters over the mindless idiocy of the ice-trekkers. Both have surrendered logic to ideology and while there’s a bit more nobility shown by the explorers, it’s pretty close to Don Quixote’s tilting at windmills.
I have been following this Catlin group with great enthusiasim hoping beyond hope that, at some point during their “mission”, they might come to the conclusion that, yah, it’s bloody cold and extremely icy up here! Indeed that seems to be the case. What I am most curious about though is the fact that they must have gone to great lengths to include their “biotelemetry” on their website and an ice thickness indicator and yet not one of them has been functional to date! What’s up with that?
No admiration, just scorn and contempt. They are in it for fame and glory, wrapped in the cause of “saving the planet”, with the (very thin) veneer of science. I don’t really wish them ill, I guess. That would make them martyrs.
Regarding the soggy sleeping bags, I would think they’d want to swap those out at the next re-supply. With days getting longer, and a bit warmer, it would be much easier to keep them dry.
I’m guessing they probably will actually make it to the NP now, having made it through some of the toughest conditions, and with improving conditions ahead. But, anything can happen.
As repugnant as Al Gore is, you have to admire his success. He has made a fringe scientific theory into a massive global ideological debate, made an absolutely brilliant movie (totally flawed – but brilliant in terms of achieving its objectives), allegedly made a bundle of money and won himself a Nobel peace prize. The guy is a genius. Even if you disagree with him 100% you have to admire his success.
The 3 intrepid explorers are just stupid. I am sorry to say this, but they are.
If we want to defeat this flawed and ridiculous dogma, we have to understand something. We cannot beat it with ‘science’, we cannot beat it by being passionate and we cannot beat it with logic. All we can do is keep pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes on – in as simple language as possible. Just keep treating it as irrelevant …. because it isn’t happening.
“The day’s intense bright sunlight gave them an opportunity to walk with their now sodden sleeping bags on top of their sledges in order to dry them slightly – the bags currently weigh around 3 times their usual weight due to all the moisture they are holding and provide very miserable sleeping conditions.”
I took an Arctic survival course years ago and was told that to dry out your sleeping bag was to let it freeze and then beat out the frost. Sleeping in a damp bag in Arctic conditions could be suicide.
Would all your comments be so inhumanly despicable if GW was not one of the areas of investigation? Or if the humans were from USA? Or were amputees, Or ….
I’m sure that they wanted to go for the challenge and needed sponsorship. GW was a belief they all hold.
Many people die in mountains including those from USA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_on_eight-thousanders
Conditions change, mistakes are made. But why do they risk their lives – just for thrills. At least Catlin have an aim which is not just personal aggrandisement.
In UK potholers, climbers, walkers often require rescuing. The rescue parties main gripe is with idiots who venture into difficult conditions without adequate protection.
Clothing and equipment.
I assume that they have the best their finances can obtain. Natural “skins” hold no candle to modern insulation fabrics. Igloos take time to make – a tent and sleeping bag are quicker.
I am very saddened by your poisonous comments on this endeavour.
Bill
I’ll repeat my iron truism: you are entitled to any opinion/view point you desire. Just remember that reality doesn’t give a damn what you think.
I’ll take this [guest] post as an affirmation of that truism.
As to our ‘intrepid’ eco-truth seekers, I’ll repeat something said by an old veteran NCO many years ago [in my greener days, military-wise…]: ‘stupid will get you dead, son. Or worse, it’ll get your friends dead and leave you alive to remember it to your dying day.’
Some imparted wisdoms stick harder than others; that one stuck with me.
Hopefully they’ll survive this sterling example of cluelessness, and be the wiser for it.
But I somehow doubt it.
No, I find nothing admirable about putting your life and others in danger for what amounts to a stunt with little or no scientific value. If they get in real trouble someone is going to have to risk their life to get them out. Discovery Channel just had a documentary on a K2 expedition that cost almost a dozen people their lives. For what? This stunt ranks with the kayak trip of last year and all of the idiot sightseers who climb Everest.
Ignorance, arrogance, hubris – These are the words that come to my mind when the Catlin Expedition is mentioned.
Courage does not apply to what I see.
Imran says:
The problem here is that as always, people who have fallen for a scam do not want to admit that they were so foolish.
(life jacket story)
In much the same way that the expedition is having to swim to safety. The only crisis I see is the one in journalistic integrity.
Never mind its a sunny -38C out on the ice today and only another couple of months to go for the team.
Failing that they could just stand very still and arrive in a couple of weeks at a nice hotel nearby.
(beware of the extinct Polar Bears though chaps)
… Who on earth thought this expedition up? More importantly – does the Prudhoe Bay Hotel have any rooms available?
I would have been more more impressed if they had worked with the navy to get ice readings from the comfort of a heated nuclear submarine. The navy probably already has historical data. Of course, that might have resulted in some real science resulting in a dry science publication rather than a showboating expedition.
“Ice Station Zebra” 1963 by Alistair MacLean is a entertaining novel based in part on the real voyages of the USS Nautilus SSN571. Nice description of going under the arctic ice and measuring ice thickness. (the movie is a waste of time)
I just read a book about Alfred Wegener, who developed the theory of continental drift and spent his spare time crossing Greenland for meteorlogical data. This crew is not qualified to shine his mukluks.
Nothing but respect for them – anybody who takes on such a challenge and has the courage of their convictions is worthy of admiration. The reasons they are there are irrelevant (as are my personal feelings regarding their reasons).
I sincerely hope they make it home safe and sound.
Steven,
You seem to be saying that since the expedition is inherently difficult and dangerous, the team members MUST be selfless and brave, and are thus worthy of deep admiration. I’d be interested to know if you think the same of all the people who attempt to summit Mt. Everest, which remains a very difficult and dangerous undertaking.
The Polar Bear life Vests was an idea I advanced early in 2007 as purely a GAG!
I will see if the site is still up as it was in a forum. I also created a polar bear wearing water wings image…
I swear these people do not need to be made fun of anymore…. they do it themselves!
Next I fear this expedition was ill prepared for what they are facing, I am not sure but it seems to me that they were not trained to handle these conditions both physically and mentally. The arctic is a dangerous place, and really is inhospitable to humans.
I hope that the first picture is a frozen red scarf and not that man’s lips, or else I’m deeply disturbed.
Ien,
“If they were smart they would admit they didn’t prepare properly and didn’t know what they were doing … and come home and do it next year with better gear.”
But this year is already the “next year”.
Look for “Vanco Arctic Survey – Expedition” in google.
When that the poor have cried, Gore hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Lupercal
I thrice presented him a kingly crown,
Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then to mourn for him?
O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason…. Bear with me;
Philip G. (07:27:57) :
I hope that the first picture is a frozen red scarf and not that man’s lips, or else I’m deeply disturbed.
MEDIC!
In the unlikely case they actually do make it to the pole. What logistics would be involved in picking them up?
At the pace they’re going it will be during a period that is 24 hours of darkness.
Would an aircraft picking them up be able to find a spot suitable for landing?
Well, this all seems particulary inept. I don’t suppose the Kool Aid crowd see the irony of -40degree temperatures … and I loved the polar bear tracks they found. There’s at least one left I guess. I wonder whether they realise how tasty explorers are?
Look, they are already commited ‘global warmers’ setting out with the presumption of disastrous ice melt (shouldn’t the conclusions post-date the observation bit)? With ‘instrumentation’ devised, as far as I can tell from the websites, by themselves, they plan to take one-time measurements and issue ‘results’ without third party verification. One time measurements are surely virtually useless – certainly in terms of trends.
This is yet another stunt, just the kind of teary-eyed stuff the BBC and the Guardian fawn over (as they are).
Arctic ice thickness is, by the way, continuously monitored by US buoys … duh.
Sigh…
From Costa Rica, where the floating (and indeed by empirical observation on a practically daily daily basis, thawing) ice is confined to my gin & tonic.
“Life vests for polar bears on melting ice”
Another Darwin incident in the planning stages?
There is great humor in their predictable discomfort.
Should I be surprised by all the mean-spirited comments posted here? Are most people posting here really that wound up in anti-AGW jihad that they wish evil on people who are out collecting useful data in dangerous conditions?
Philip G. (07:27:57) :
I hope that the first picture is a frozen red scarf and not that man’s lips, or else I’m deeply disturbed.
I thought it was Mick Jagger…
Jakers,
When you start criticizing James Hansen for demanding prison terms for business executives who operate a lawful, taxpaying enterprise, then I’ll believe you really mean what you say about “mean spirited” comments. In the mean time, give it a rest.
Coldplay,
How about a link to a graphic of your “model”.
Jakers (09:52:22) :
It seems unlikely they’ll be able to collect useful data, and it also seems there’s little point in them doing it at all, considering useful data is already collected by other means. It is *effectively* being done – regardless of the intent or convictions of these three people – for the publicity, as callous as that may sound. And it will continue to be whipped into the ongoing media frenzy over AGW, blotting out genuine scientific work being done by equally passionate – and true – scientists. *That* is the irksome part.
However, I have to re-state that these are human beings prepared to risk a lot, if not all, in service of something they (not I, I hasten to add!) believe in. They deserve admiration for that. These are not thrill seekers climbing a mountain for selfish pleasures. They really do believe they’re doing the right thing, and however misguided I may think they are, I wish them well and a safe return.
Even if they end up looking like Mick Jagger…
Shackleton, Amundsen, Scott, Mallory and Irvine, are amongst my boyhood heroes; who dared to brave unknown dangers to push forward the frontiers of knowledge; and it cost most of them their lives.
It is totally offensive to me; beyond any words in my lexicon; to abide publicity stunt fools like these people; who venture into these still hazardous regions simply to push a misguided agenda.
No doubt they will expect to be rescued by some other true heroes, when they get their sorry carcases in over their heads. I can only hope that Mother Nature deals with their foolhardiness; in her usual appropriate fashion.
“To strive, to seek, to find; and not to yield !” Robert Falcon Scott 1912.
George
Jihad?
Useful data?
Professional operation?
Give us a break. This is nothing more than a bottom drawer publicity stunt.
It’s a joke.
But the real joke comes when the global warming jihadists use their scant data to irrefutably conclude “rapidly melting ice cap” – no matter that the oceans of satellite data tell a different story.
bill (05:51:59) :
Would all your comments be so inhumanly despicable if GW was not one of the areas of investigation?
I am very saddened by your poisonous comments on this endeavour.
Would your over-the-top description of the comments here be so hysterical if you weren’t such a True Believer in the CAGW/CC nonsense?
Describing this expedition as an “investigation” of “GW” would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetic. The AGW part they’ve already decided on, the only thing being “investigated” is the “C” part, and that is only the matter of degree – i.e. “we KNOW we’re heading for Climate Catastrophe, we just want to know How Big of one and How Soon it will happen.” Yes, real scientific.
HYPOTHERMIA
Indeed somone may wish to relay the following link to our three heroes in the Arctic:
http://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica%20fact%20file/science/cold_hypothermia.htm
A fascinating read.
In fact everyone should read this in preparation for the oncoming global cooling and little ice age.
Maybe that’s the problem with all them stubborn, obstinate warmers – they’re all suffering from hypothermia!
At least they are certainly exhibiting all the symptons of stage 1 and 2 hyprothermia with all their uncooperativeness and trembling.
Forward progress will be an issue.
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/data/satellite/hrpt_dfo_ir_100.jpg
By George that’s it!
The warmists are suffering from hypothermia.
SYMPTONS:
1. victim denies initial symptons.
2. has impaired judgment.
3. loss of ability to make rational decisions.
4. fails to follow simple procedures.
5. shows an unawareness of the cold.
6. appears to be in a state of suspended animation.
7. hallucinations – may become “giggly” and regress to a child-like state.
Fits like a glove.
Their hypothermia most likely due to them turning down the damn heat to save CO2!
Today’s LST image.
http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single.php?2009086/lst2.A2009086152000-2009086152500.1km.jpg
No open ice… yet. The polar bears are getting hungry, Arctic Fox tracks have been seen. The bears have very poor eyesite, but they make up for that with their sense of smell. It’s a good thinking to put their sleeping bags on top of their sledges in the sunlight to dry out the 3+ pounds of 25+ day unwashed moisture. Just wait til it warms up a bit…
Anthony, do you really think as others do here that these 3 humans deserve to die?
~snip~
Bill
Bill,
I have read every comment. You are not representing what is being discussed.
I for one hope that they collect as much data as they possibly can AND share it with the public. I hope they make it to the North pole and arrive home safe.
They are merely ignorant of their cirrcumstances.
Bill,
No one is advocating the deaths of these misguided individuals and you are leaping on some overblown hyperbole. What is of great concern is that lives of other people will be risked to pull these snow-blind fools off the ice. I have flown in the Arctic and it is very unforgiving, with dramatic weather changes and few alternate airfields. My sympathies lie with the Twin Otter and Turbo-Dakota crews who will be risking life and limb to supply – and ultimately rescue – the so-called expedition. Take your AGW blinders off.
Having spent two peace time Korean winters as a soldier in the field it certainly made me appreciate how much more challenging it was for those who fought there during the Korean War. We were well supplied and well fed and only had to spend no more than 14 days actually living in the field and it was a real challenge. For those reasons I can appreciate the hardships they are enduring but at the same time it is self-inflicted to no good purpose so I am not too sympathetic overall.
I feel much sorrier for those people in North Dakota flooded out of their homes, snowed upon, cold, hungry, and all through no fault of their own. I am sure they would be praying for global warming.
Ta, John
LOL I wanna see a video of the person putting the vest on the polar bear..
There’s a whole lot of issues stirred into one strange stew here.
Adventure is one thing and should have the best available preparation – but it seems short-changed here, thus putting lives at risk unnecessarily. Or are they more aware and prepared than we have given them credit for – since they cannot answer us here?
Scientific work is another thing – but surely all the science of this trip could be done far more safely and accurately and usefully in other ways – or perhaps already exists?
Publicity stunts is another thing – and for something the stunt people sincerely believe is worthwhile, is to be applauded.
What frightens me is the way so many good people have been conned into believing AGW.
Yet the AGW fear is also driving inventiveness in developing energy alternatives that actually work.
But here on this thread, most folk are probably like myself, distressed by the global con of AGW which is truly life-threatening (cold=famine, unprepared=worse; conned into expensive but useless mitigation=even worse; having a trustworthy science silently eroded=unimagineable consequences because it’s a retreat into the mentality of the Inquisition).
Lies, damn lies, and IPCC statistics don’t sit comfortably with me as a good basis for anything. I want to see these three doing stunts for something that is a real issue, like waking up to global cooling. I want them visibly in cooperation with local wisdom, and aware of Arctic history longer than just the current generations who have only known warming. I want to see their faith in “scientific consensus” shattered. I want them to know that debate matters and has been suppressed. I want them to know that a lot more of us would support them if they weren’t supporting what we know is lies and misrepresentations about the climate. I want them to know that for all we are exasperated and distressed by their actions, we don’t wish them dead.
My post was trimmed of the more important statement – I’ll not repeat it – but it changed the purpose of my statement.
DaveCF (12:20:52) :
No one is advocating the deaths of these misguided individuals and
Rachelle Young (20:52:54) :
I would be content to see all three of them freeze to death or be eaten by ‘endangered’ polar bears.
They have also been called fools, martyrs, selfpublishists, delusional, idiots.
Experienced?
“Pen is also the first Briton to trek without re-supply to both North and South Geographic Poles. He has been a professional polar guide for 18 years. Pen will be responsible for all surveying and observational procedures for gathering the water column, sea ice and weather data. ”
“It was during this expedition that Ann (44) fell in love with the polar regions and the challenges of expedition life. In 2000 she co-led a five-strong, 700 mile sledge-hauling trek to the South Pole which became the first British women’s team to complete this journey. Then in 2002 Ann became one of two women, in an originally three-strong team, to reach the North Pole after a gruelling 500 mile, 80-day epic trek in atrocious conditions”
2 out of 3 is not bad!
Hasse@Norway (23:09:01) :
Yeees! People who try to find melting ice 40 below always gets my respect, or not. Survival under extreme conditions require a clear head and common sense, a trait not normally found among the extreme AGWers
For goodness sake, Every year some of the ice melts – the temperature of the air/water must be the cause – it is not -40 all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ps… for three supposedly experienced explorers, I find their planning lacking. In a case where your life depends on planning… that means disaster. The sheer fact that they nearly ran out of supplies is an example of such poor planning.
I do not wish them bad luck, however I think they are extremely reckless and stupid.
Meanwhile folks in N Dakota and other recent disaster victims, hit by mother nature’s wrath, need good neighbors:) They are in their circumstance through no fault of their own. I would rather focus my time helping them and worrying about them then 3 Darwin award candidates who are risking their lives for “data” that will mean absolutely nothing as far as CLIMATE discovery.
Bill,
Given that they are all so experienced are their dramatic and breatless reports only playing to the gallery?
“Ien,
“If they were smart they would admit they didn’t prepare properly and didn’t know what they were doing … and come home and do it next year with better gear.”
But this year is already the “next year”.
Look for “Vanco Arctic Survey – Expedition” in google.”
I just looked at that website, and I see the same picture they have on the NEW website, which I mistakenly assumed was from THIS expedition…the one with someone swiming through open water, pulling their supplies, wearing a submersion suit. So that’s not from NOW, and it’s not even from 2008…must be file footage??? That’s a bit misleading.
“Jakers (09:52:22) :
Should I be surprised by all the mean-spirited comments posted here? Are most people posting here really that wound up in anti-AGW jihad that they wish evil on people who are out collecting useful data in dangerous conditions?”
anti-AGW jihan…LOL…that’s pretty good.
Now, seriously, the problem here seems to me to be that you believe the data will be useful, and I do not. That’s why I believe it’s a selfish endeavour on other people’s nickles. Call it what it is. So let’s start there. What use will the data be put to?
JimB
John Laidlaw:
“However, I have to re-state that these are human beings prepared to risk a lot, if not all, in service of something they (not I, I hasten to add!) believe in. They deserve admiration for that. These are not thrill seekers climbing a mountain for selfish pleasures. They really do believe they’re doing the right thing, and however misguided I may think they are, I wish them well and a safe return.”
I’m not at all sure what they believe in. There are several possibilities, and without actually spending time with them and knowing them much better than I do now, I’m not willing to make that leap of faith.
For instance…they may have just wanted to walk to the North Pole, and figured out that if they put the jaunt in an AGW wrapper, they could get it paid for. Deep down, they may care nothing about GW, and have an incredible desire to hike to the pole. Nothing “honorable” about that…and I don’t admire them.
Having said that, I wish them no ill… but what they’re doing is pretty silly.
JimB
Their problem is that they started so early in the season, the thermometer used by the experienced Pen ends at -40 C, that is an indication that they did not expect such extrem temperatures as thay now have experienced.
Their comments so far is not supporting AGW just the opposite.
More “suggestions” from computer modelling about the Arctic ice disappearing:-
http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2008/permafrost.jsp
Bill,
I said I would be content to have these Paris Hiltons of AGW freeze to death or be eaten by polar bears. As Dave CF pointed out:
“My sympathies lie with the Twin Otter and Turbo-Dakota crews who will be risking life and limb to supply – and ultimately rescue – the so-called expedition.”
Members of my family, and some of my friends, have flown in the Arctic. It is dangerous; people die doing it under usual conditions. It is made much more dangerous when idiots wander into a situation that calls on pilots to fly into sub-marginal conditions they would normally avoid just to rescue fools out to win publicity. If these three would-be AGW celebrities perish, just maybe it will put an end to publicity stunts like these that put the lives of real heroes at risk.
Sooner or later, somebody is likely to die because of these stunts. Better the fools than the folks called upon to rescue them.
As an afterthought, if they freeze to death, in a way it will be because of ‘global warming’–or, rather, their belief in it.
These guys had better get off the ice soon, as it is all going to melt 🙂
Well, several posts have commented the the 3 are fools and don’t know what they’re doing, but a quick look at their bios seems to show they are very experienced polar explorers.
Others have suggested that subs and buoys are getting enough data, but the navy seems to have better things to do with the subs because it’s not collecting much thickness data, and the buoys must be stuck in the ice, right, and just giving a point of data – which may even be influenced by the buoy frozen into the ice. This expedition can create a baseline measurement of the cross section, can it not, to compare to in future years?
Also, if they are just “publicity stunt fools” they aren’t doing a very good job, as it isn’t very high-profile. I see their science partners are the US Naval Postgraduate School, Cambridge, and JPL.
And I still think the death-wishes are a sad indicator.
Lucy Skywalker (12:36:34) :
There’s a whole lot of issues stirred into one strange stew here.
Great post, Lucy….Thanks.
These people are said to be experienced cold-weather travelers, yet they seem surprisingly poorly-prepared. For example I find it odd that their re-supply didn’t include dry sleeping bags, They have broadcast to the world that their bags are uncomfortably sodden. Sleeping in wet sleeping bags under the described conditions could be disfiguring or fatal. Yet no warm bags have been provided. In America the post-expedition litigation would go on for years.
Every religion has it’s flock of devout believers. The ruling elite have had the religous leaders lead their flock into wars for thousands of years, be it it Wars on the Philistines In Canaan, Wars on Islam in the Crusades, Wars between Catholics and Protestants, etc. and today it is a war on climate change, which is actually a war on man, who is a threat to the Goddess Gaia.
The Catlin Explorers faith might be shaken after this venture.
” Robert A Cook PE (19:33:00) :
My religion finds it MANDATory to love them as people with souls, but equally, as an engineer and realist who refuses to fall for their propaganda and their “hatred” of the western world, its civilization and the real science of climate – they are – bluntly – fools.
Let us hope they do not become polar bear bait, or that our money is not wasted recusing them from this folly.”
That didn’t take long. Congratulations.
The US Navy isn’t the only one under that ice. The big question is, will the Russians share their latest information after the Catlin results are made public?
The Catlin team will have earned whatever publicity they get, and I wish them a safe return with increased knowledge, wisdom, and no permanent bodily damage.
But for some reason I find myself constantly thinking about those “celebrity challenges,” where one team of famous twits take on a second team of stupid celebrities to see which team will win. After all events have been run, the film is edited and the event order reshuffled to produce the most dramatic possible outcome, when (usually) the Stupids appear to come from behind at the “last minute” to defeat the Twits.
None of which has anything to do with the Catlin Expedition. Let us all pray for their safe return, and meditate on scripture. Perhaps 2 Corinthians 11:19…
“jakers:
This expedition can create a baseline measurement of the cross section, can it not, to compare to in future years?”
And how can this be accomplished given the near constant shift in ice, which seems to be dependent upon a large number of other factors such as AMO/PDO/ENSO, and who knows that else?
By their own admission, for nearly the first 2wks on the ice, they would trudge forward, camp, and awake the next morning to find the ice they were on had drifted south, or southeast, or southwest by more distance than they had covered the day before.
The point is that the thickness at point ww:xx:yy:zz on Mar 24th this year has absolutely nothing to do with the thickness at those same coordinates next year, because it MOVES. CONSTANTLY.
“I see their science partners are the US Naval Postgraduate School, Cambridge, and JPL.”
Now there’s a bit of cherry picking, no?
And as for death threat posts…I’m sorry, I just don’t see that many people saying “I hope they DIE!” I see people saying I’d rather they die than the people who will undoubtedly have to go rescue them, like the 12 rescuers that died trying to get the mountain climbers off the slopes.
Would you disagree with that?…Your call. Hypothetical situation: There are three people on the ice who will die without being rescued, and there are rescue teams that if dispatched, will loose 12 people.
Who do you pick? Who gets to live?
The point is…they didn’t need to do this.
It’s a moral question…and not one to be dismissed lightly, at least not by me.
JimB
Have they measured any ice yet?
So for a hypothetical jump of little significance,
What is the punishment for those who have advocated for and pilfered away Trillions of dollars to fight global warming as deep freeze winters, high energy costs and death occurs for the next 50 years?
Is it gee whiz they meant well, and are kinda sorry so never mind?
Hey I think the picture of the polar bears on top of that strangely melted ice cube is awesome.
It is strange the way people can actually make money off of something that seems profitless, such as global warming. Though gore did make that movie which grossed or shall I pun Gored alot in the box offices.
All they have to do is check the data and see Arctic ice is in a growing trend.
But which do I admire more? If i must choose it would be the 3–obviously.
Well JimB, of course they wouldn’t measure the same ice next year or next decade!!! duh. They would look at the average thickness, which apparently is a rather sparse measurement normally.
Smokey (20:24:54) :There’s something about martyrs: they will die to be right.
Rachelle Young (20:52:54) :I would be content to see all three of them freeze to death or be eaten by ‘endangered’ polar bears. That would teach the world something.
ThomasK (23:23:21) :sounds like they are candidates for the Darwin award
Pierre Gosselin (02:15:41) :Nature has a a way of eliminating stupid genes.
Paul (05:10:02) :When they freeze to death on the ice can we count their frozen corpses as additional ice thickness??
George E. Smith (10:41:23) :I can only hope that Mother Nature deals with their foolhardiness; in her usual appropriate fashion.
This is OT, but since the discussion has been mostly on the foolhardy publicty seeking adventurers making symbolic gestures to appease the AGW Gods, what about the lights out on Earth Day proposition?
If everyone turned their power off, and not just their lights for one minute, and then all turned them on at the same time, the cold-start current drawn by refrigerators and other motor-drivern devices, and the cold filaments of incandescent bulbs would put an almost instaneous crushing starting load on the power grid. I would guess it would trip a few transformers and power-switching devices before it got sorted out.
It reminds me of one of the interminable pranks we did about 60 years ago while students at a northeastern college. On a signal from the campus radio staion, everyone flushed the toilets and urinals in the various johns at the same time. The resulting pressure drop produced reverberations that lasted for more than a few seconds.
It’ll be interesting to see how this one pans out.
Sure would like to hear about ONE of those alternatives, but with, you know, actual figures, values, numbers showing the overall economics, payback period (we know it’s +10 yrs for wind …), etc.
Consider wind; wind generation *still* requires baseload (coal or other) plants be operational (EVEN when wind is turning the turbines since it takes days tp bring up or take down a large baseload boiler facility!) since there is no universal, cheap, easy, economical means to store any excess energy, and there is still be considered the means of transmission of this power from parts remote.
Solar? Same considerations, and even more so (considering that period we deem to be NIGHTTIME.)
Solar water heaters? Been around since ex-President Carter’s time (that makes this technology sorta pre-AGW).
Sooo … what does that leave us?
My priest told me that the requirement of Christian love is to pray all souls will be led to heaven, especially those most in need of mercy. Don’t need to like ’em though. And why should I ?
John Keegan writes about the mountaineering exploits of certain elite military units of a certain mid-European power of the 30’s and 40’s. Their casualty rate messing around in snow and ice was about the same as it was later on while they were oppressing other Europeans, very high. I am sure that they were uncomfortable at many times, even unto death, while they mountaineered; should I care. Then too, they were some mothers son, they were certainly courageous, AND really, really believed in what they were doing. Ask a Pole if he cares.
I don’t particularly care about their fate, or that of the Arctic ice-measurers. It is I trust, a failure of imagination on my part. But it does take more than the fact that they believe in what they are doing or that they engage in extraordinary feats to make a difference. I have, like most people claims on my compassion too numerous to leave much for people who put themselves in danger to no purpose or to a bad purpose.
“len (20:48:10) : If they were smart they would admit they didn’t prepare properly and didn’t know what they were doing … and come home and do it next year with better gear.”
If they were smart they’d log on to the internet from their home and look up the data that shows Arctic ice in a growing trend.
“..designing a life-vest for displaced polar bears struggling to stay afloat as their homes sink into the sea.”
This perfectly epitomizes the baby boomer/ hippie generation that now controls American culture. They are anti-normal : anti-family, anti-heterosexuality, anti-school, anti-industry, anti-police, anti-military, anti-authority, i.e., everything that a pubescent, angst ridden teen could demand has permeated all of American culture. Everything normal is abnormal. They can’t even let us feel that the climate is normal. No. We must feel guilt.
I think they call this being “progressive”.
The baby boomer hippie has brought us high school kids walking down the street smoking pot, and a lax legal system that leaves violent men on the street who kill four policemen–because after all, we can’t exercise the discipline that “the man” was trying to put on us, we can’t be hard on those criminals and put them in jail, man.
And now, life jackets for polar bears–sounds normal to me. I’ll take two.
Peace, love, dope!
“Bob Wood (20:55:05) :
Looking at his poor, frozen lips, its hard for me to think he really believes things are warming up!!!”
Nooo, Bob, man, come on, don’t look at reality. That’s what the 60’s taught us–question everything!
“Aron (01:32:07) : Next they’ll have crash helmets for chimps to save the planet.”
No, the helmets are for AGWers who are getting hit in the head from falling sky acorns!
” Steven Goddard (04:59:54) : “…for various reasons the team chose not to take vapour barrier liners for their sleeping bags,..”
OMG how stupid these people are.
“JM (18:23:56) :
Well JimB, of course they wouldn’t measure the same ice next year or next decade!!! duh. They would look at the average thickness, which apparently is a rather sparse measurement normally.”
Average thickness? And exactly what would the “average” be based on? And please, please explain what proxies would be used to obtain this average, since their measurements likely cover about .000001% of the Arctic ice?
Surely you’re not proposing that this is a good way to monitor ice thickness?
JimB
[snip – just a note to other posters, a valid email address is required to post here anonymous@spamhole.com won’t cut it]
[snip]
“_Jim (19:55:00) :
Consider wind; wind generation *still* requires baseload (coal or other) plants be operational (EVEN when wind is turning the turbines since it takes days tp bring up or take down a large baseload boiler facility!) since there is no universal, cheap, easy, economical means to store any excess energy, and there is still be considered the means of transmission of this power from parts remote.”
Please look up your facts (I suppose the USA could be different).
In UK there is a 1.3GW generator that can provide 0 to 2GW in 12 seconds, another 1GW that is fractionally slower. There are gas turbines that can be cycled in less than an hour. There are stations running but not producing power that can be brought on line in minutes (not using much fuel) There are mothballed stations that will take months to bring on line, there are cold stations capable of being brought on line in days.
Every watt/hour of power generated is nearly a watt/hour preserved for future generations. It does not matter that it is intermittent. It is still saved.
Interestingly the only recent large scale outage was caused when a nuclear generator shut down unexpectedly.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/28/britishenergygroupbusiness
The pumped storage systems at Dinorwig and Ffestiniog can respond within 15 seconds and is about 60% (cannot find the figure) for complete cycle
Wind energy is possible.
This increasingly seems to be the effort of well meaning but strangely naive participants. I would not think that they have a very long life as a wind direction indicator. 🙂
Lacy underwear secret tool of polar expedition
Arctic explorer Pen Hadow and his team are relying on a pair of lady’s knickers to navigate their way to the North Pole after compasses failed
By Louise Gray, Environment Correspondent
Last Updated: 7:25AM GMT 28 Mar 2009
Catlin Arctic Expedition: When it is cloudy they rely on following the direction of the wind helpfully indicated by a pair of lacy knickers shredded and stuck to the end of a ski pole.
Mr Hadow, who was the first person to trek solo to the North Pole, said the knickers were kindly donated by a supporter of the expedition. Photo: MARTIN HARTLEY
The Catlin Arctic Survey are trekking 700 miles to the North Pole to measure the thickness of the shrinking Arctic icecap.
However due to the proximity to magnetic north the compasses are “going haywire”. The freezing conditions also mean the latest global positioning satellite or GPS equipment will not work.
Therefore the team have to rely on navigating using the position of the sun. When it is cloudy they rely on following the direction of the wind helpfully indicated by a pair of lacy knickers shredded and stuck to the end of a ski pole.
More at
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5061498/Lacy-underwear-secret-tool-of-polar-expedition.html
Bill and Jim
When I’ve done what I can to help the climate science back on track (eg the constantly updating Primer – click my name) I want to explore alternative energies further – not the conventional sun and wind. Harvest Illinois coal for nuclear fuel. Jetstream kites economically feasible: power available is proportional to wind velocity to the 4th power. Patents have been pouring in all last year at a record rate: an indicator of economic growth. Tidal energy: where I live there is enough to cover London twice a day, there are a few ways of harvesting it already on line and more in the pipeline, but I think there’s a lot more to be developed, right under our noses. Brunel’s iron ship was not supposed to float. Now if I could control the body energy of hot flushes I’d never have to worry about heating – the Tibetan lamas can (could) do it 🙂 And more.
JM (18:23:56) :
all those comments you quote, not very nice perhaps. Yet I suspect that these folk might be the first to volunteer to rescue those three if they were on hand for a rescue call. Stanley Milgram showed the folk we need to worry about are the nice touchy-feelie folk who want to be liked, who defer to authority and do not think for themselves.
Wind energy is possible. So is hamster power, Bill.
Every watt/hour of power generated is nearly a watt/hour preserved for future generations. It does not matter that it is intermittent. It is still saved.
This is typical AGWer nonsensical blather. You are confusing energy conservation with energy generation. You do not conserve energy by generating it. The question, which you conveniently ignore is, what is the cost, relative to say coal, or whatever energy source is the most readily available? And no, you can’t include the completely bogus “cost” of Cap n’ Trade and/or “Carbon Tax” scams to artificially drive up the cost of coal, gas and oil.
Human beings tend to think that suffering has a validating power, an ability to instill truth into a subject matter. Much of the Christian religious epistemology is based on that.
For me, their suffering does not bring any more intelligence to their quest. They choose to undergo these hardships mostly as a media stunt, exploiting the above phenomenon.
If they had more sense, they’d go measure the thickness of ice cubes in their drinks on a sunny sub-tropical beach…
bill (05:00:37) :
So we build two complete systems incase wind power fails? Where has that been factored into the cost of wind power?
[snip]
This is not a thread about windpower but I will say this:
Every watt generated by renewables means a watt less required to be generated by oil/gas/coal/nuclear. UK requires say 65,000,000,000 watts all generated by conventional means (say), if 1 watt is generated by wind then only 64,999,999,999 need be generated by non renewables – do you agree?. I think you will also agree this saves 1 watt * reciprocal of efficiency (=3 watts) equivalent of conventional fuel? This fuel is easily stored for when the wind does not blow i.e. energy has been stored.
Most engineering reports on the UK grid say that 20% approx windpower will cause no grid instability with the system as it stands. Adding better controls will improve this.
BarryW (07:44:02) :
So we build two complete systems incase wind power fails? Where has that been factored into the cost of wind power?
One system already exists but wil need relacing with 60% efficient CCGT base load or GT transient generation.
Future may include wind->Hydrogen for example:
http://www.hydrogen-yorkshire.co.uk/documents/Hydrogen_Generation_HMGS_fact_sheet.pdf
Bill
bill,
Those windmills in the countryside are hideous, and always placed in the most visible locations along the tops of ridges where birds migrate.
What is the air speed of a swallow?
Steven Goddard (11:21:24) :
The RSPB have changed their stance on wind turbines and now support them with reservations:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/Positive%20Planning%20for%20Onshore%20Wind_tcm9-213280.pdf
What do you mean? An African or European swallow?
Although not a positive point one should always remember how much wildlife is destroyed by motor vehicles. Correctly sited wind farms will minimise deaths.
“Bruce Cobb (07:17:31) : Wind energy is possible. So is hamster power, Bill.”
Economic solutions in YouTube video :
Merionis Unguiculatis power. There, all better now:
Can someone please tell the Gaurdian that Polar Bears are excellent swimmers, its an insult to them that people believe they are so fragile they cannot get wet or they die!
The goal of these people is to eventually tell us how to live, I hope they have to be rescued and their feet amputated so they have speak at their next convention or summit from a wheelchair. They will have to tell the story of how global warming almost killed them because it was too cold, even a 20 year old Harvard student would have trouble believing that.