Some have said in the past that Jim Hansen of NASA GISS is no longer a scientist, but an advocate. Today, by his own hand, I believe that description rings true.
Click for video
Here is what Greenpeace is using Dr. Hansen for:
It’s time to take a stand on global warming. Dr. James Hansen, an internationally-recognized climate scientist, calls for Americans to take part in the Capitol Climate Action on March 2 at the Capitol power plant in Washington DC — expected to be the largest display of civil disobedience against global warming in US history. Dr. Hansen warns that unless we stop burning coal, the country’s largest source of global warming pollution, young people will inherit a dramatically different world than the one we know. For more info visit capitolclimateaction.org.
Let us hope that nobody is injured or killed at this demonstration. Hansen may run afoul of the Hatch Act, see below.
For those of you that wish to write letters, here is the info:
Jim Hansen’s email: jhansen@giss.nasa.gov
His supervisor is Robert Strain at Goddard Space Flight Center: rstrain@gsfc.nasa.gov (which apparently does not wor)
So try: public-inquiries@gsfc.nasa.gov
Here is what the US Office of Special Counsel says about the Hatch Act as it applies to Federal Employees, of which I believe Dr. Hansen is one. You can file complaints online here with the office of Special Counsel
Federal employees should also be aware that certain political activities may also be criminal offenses under title 18 of the U.S. Code. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 210, 211, 594, 595, 600, 601, 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 610.
Permitted/Prohibited Activities for Employees Who May Participate in Partisan Political Activity
These federal and D.C. employees may–
- be candidates for public office in nonpartisan elections
- register and vote as they choose
- assist in voter registration drives
- express opinions about candidates and issues
- contribute money to political organizations
- attend political fundraising functions
- attend and be active at political rallies and meetings
- join and be an active member of a political party or club
- sign nominating petitions
- campaign for or against referendum questions, constitutional amendments, municipal ordinances
- campaign for or against candidates in partisan elections
- make campaign speeches for candidates in partisan elections
- distribute campaign literature in partisan elections
- hold office in political clubs or parties
These federal and D.C. employees may not–
- use official authority or influence to interfere with an election
- solicit or discourage political activity of anyone with business before their agency
- solicit or receive political contributions (may be done in certain limited situations by federal labor or other employee organizations)
- be candidates for public office in partisan elections
- engage in political activity while:
- on duty
- in a government office
- wearing an official uniform
- using a government vehicle
- wear partisan political buttons on duty
Can somebody please sack the loony?
Some have said in the past that Jim Hansen of NASA GISS is no longer a scientist, but an advocate
He’s both.
Cannot have it both ways, sorry
On rare occasions it can. The Society for Marine Mammalogy is careful about such things. It took quite an effort and thought for the Society to publish an official Society Letter that advocated conservation of the Baiji and Vaquita. The advocacy was backed by strong science and analysis. However, with that said, when it came to taking a position on global warming, the Society broke its own rules regarding membership discussion about an official letter advocating a position on climate change. It seems that when it comes to climate change, conventional rules of scientific debate go out the window in the wholesale rush to get on board.
I don’t see any evidence that Hansen has done anything that I would consider “science”, in decades.
The see (for example, there is much more):
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2008/TargetCO2_20080407.pdf
Then see (for example, there is much more):
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2008/TargetCO2_20080407.pdf
Slioch,
No science there.
Slioch
If James Hansen can’t correctly handle the simple task of temperature data can anyone trust the far, far more complicated task to him of determining how much co2 is appropriate to have in the atmosphere?
“Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50
million years ago”??? – says Hansen
Not a climate scientist, but my take on the “CO2 has historically been a strong climate driver” was all but abandoned given ice core data, etc. True or false?
john philip,
I see your debunking responses on more than one site. What is your occupation and at what agency are you employed? You are quite obviously in the AGW camp.
Just curious.
I’d guess he’s someone interested in this issue. I know I am, which is why I attend several sites. While my own MO is lurking, that doesn’t mean someone shouldn’t comment when they don’t agree with something.
Robert
I am a self-employed software developer, British, a father, with an undergraduate degree in Physics but no no qualifications in climate science. I am flattered by the implication that my posts are good enough to attract renumeration but sadly George Soros has so far somehow overlooked my contributions to the cause ….
Fair point, Hansen *is* both an advocate and scientist. Does that make him better as both or the opposite? I submit that as an advocate he overuses arguments to authority and as a scientist he’s turned supercilious. Read his essay on the usufruct and the gorilla to get a real sense of how the guy thinks. In it he drags up an obscure and minor principal of law to distract from the fact that he wasn’t on top of his data. It seems to me that being an advocate is a wonderful place for a scientist to be. You get to paper over your sloppy mistakes with arguments about the importance of your advocacy. What I find most disingenuous about Hansen is when he says (as he often does) that the science is clear. He is absolutely correct when he says this of course because the science of “greenhouse gas” is a well established principal of physical chemistry. What he glosses over when he takes this tack is that there are still large questions about what the degree of the crisis is. Judging from what I hear from the unskeptical side of the debate there is still a huge amount of uncertainty as to what the degree of warming might involve – from hell on earth to – it would take a long time to melt all of antartica to – we may be canceling the next ice age. Now there is a frightening prospect. No more ice ages. Think of it.
Re: The term “Greenhouse gas”. See Dr. Robert Wood’s work with two lab “solar collectors” one with a NaCl window, and one with glass,
circa 1911.
There IS NO SUCH THING AS AN IR “VALVE” INDUCED HEATING IN
A GREEN HOUSE.
It is SIMPLY the translation of incoming visible radiation to lower grade “heat” (i.e., heating the objects in the green house) which then exchange via convection. The GLASS is an insulating boundary, the losses via IR (10,000 nanometer) to the sky, space..etc. are an insignificant part of the balances.
Perhaps,
But one should not be both an advocate and the keeper of the data. This represents a confilct of interest. If the data does not support your position, then the temptation is there to “correct” it. At the very least the level of trust in the data by the general public is degraded.
Watched the video – the video doesn’t give instructions to do anything other than protest.
Interesting tatic – to say that “it’s difficult to understand that the climate is an emergency.” So, if you disagree, you’re just a dumb dumb dummy. Also says that the science is clear, which is strange since they never seem to have an exchange of ideas with “deniers.”
It would be interesting to have a counter protest – but we need a simple sound byte that the media can digest in just a few words. Any constructive ideas on what that could be???
If it Cools, they’re Fools?
RealPower
It will cool…but after they achieve their goal of issuing several bills to fight “GW”. It is too late now.
No Kum
It’s just “weather”.
Mike
It would be interesting to see how many people would actually bother turning up to a “the climate always has, and always will change so stop taxing our breath” demo.
How about this for a slogan:
Taxing breath = death!
Even if a million turned up, I would be surprised if the mainstream media covered it. They lied about the necessity of war in Iraq and they lied about climate change so often that I do not believe that the mainstream media are honest advocates of truth. They are more the mouthpieces of global corporations.
How about “Who turned the lights out?” – sung to the tune of “Who let the dawgs out?”
[snip – let’s not make labels please]
The climate credibilty crunch
POP goes the AGW Fear Bubble!
f I were president the first thing I would do would be to FIRE JAMES HANSEN no doubt.
He has no business, as a GOVERNMENT employee funded by the taxpayers, spouting off his political views about coal and AGW.
His allusions to coal trains as “death trains” is insulting to the memories of the real holocaust that occurred in Germany.
His getting on YouTube and encouraging a mass civil disobedience to protest AGW in DC March 2nd is a HIGHLY inappropriate action for the director of the Goddard Space Center.
Maybe if he stuck to his field of astronomy, and directed his energy and influence to assist the solar scientists to try to decipher what is going on with the sun….we would be a little further along in understanding what is going on with the No Show of Solar Cycle 24…and be better prepared for the consequences.
The man has lost it….completely lost it. I wouldn’t be surprised if there comes a day he blames earthbound CO2 on the lack of sunspots….and THAT is the day he needs to be shipped to the insane asylum…if not sooner!
But you are not the president.
And, as recent history has recorded, one of the first things this president did was give Hansen and his ilk an extra $160million to continue the pseudo-scientific behavior.
Hansen is sensing AGW is a losing cause. He is simply looking for martyrdom. Even a simple letter reminding him of his legal obligations as a public servant will be blown out of proportion that he is being censored, eased out, or simply martyred. Let history judge him if he has a sense of history. There is no way he could evade the judgement of history. The truth will come out no matter sooner or later. Even if the power plants are closed just like book buring, future technology will still judge him.
Just ignore him. Dont make him a matyr.
Just ignore him. Dont make him a matyr.
No no no. I beleive Hansen would be much less effective as an agent provacator behind bars. That’s just a guess But I am willing to wager if the Hatch Act is enforced (as much as $20).
In fact the whole martyr concept is over rated. The only time that worked well was for JC and or if the principle is in the right. Hansen is dead wrong and sense GISS is supposed to be doing science -formulaic science – a breath of fresh air at the head of that post shouldn’t make a wit of difference.
Hansen is the most expendable political/science figure on the planet.
I’m not even sure that technically he is a government employee.
He’s perhaps on secondment from Columbia?
Dave
If I were president the first thing I would do would be to FIRE JAMES HANSEN no doubt.
He has no business, as a GOVERNMENT employee funded by the taxpayers, spouting off his political views about coal and AGW.
His allusions to coal trains as “death trains” is insulting to the memories of the real holocaust that occurred in Germany.
His getting on YouTube and encouraging a mass civil disobedience to protest AGW in DC March 2nd is a HIGHLY inappropriate action for the director of the Goddard Space Center.
Maybe if he stuck to his field of astronomy, and directed his energy and influence to assist the solar scientists to try to decipher what is going on with the sun….we would be a little further along in understanding what is going on with the No Show of Solar Cycle 24…and be better prepared for the consequences.
The man has lost it….completely lost it. I wouldn’t be surprised if there comes a day he blames earthbound CO2 on the lack of sunspots….and THAT is the day he needs to be shipped to the insane asylum…if not sooner!
His body language tells me he is being deceptive. Clearly advocacy. He left the scientific arena a long time ago. Sad.
[snip]
“His body language tells me he is being deceptive”
I got that impression too. But can I decipher his motives, his reasons? Nope.
Who will be the whistle blower from his side? What’s happening on the James Hansen side has got to be eating at someone over there. You can come out, and come over to this side. You will find friends here, and a cleared conscience for yourself.
Maybe it’s wrong for me to use the word “side”. Is it?
“He left the scientific arena a long time ago”
Nonsense.
Here is one of Hansen’s recent scientific papers that addresses the questions of what level of atmospheric CO2 humanity should aim for.
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2008/TargetCO2_20080407.pdf
Whether or not to burn coal is very germane to that debate.
“He left the scientific arena a long time ago”
Still nonsense.
Also see;
J. Hansen et al., Atmos. Chem. Phys. 7, 2287 (2007).
J. Hansen, M. Sato, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 101, 16109 (2004).
J. Hansen et al., Phil. Trans. Roy. Soc. A 365, 1925 (2007).
J. Hansen et al., Science 308, 1431 (2005).
J. Hansen et al., J. Geophys. Res. 110, D18104 (2005).
J. Hansen et al., Am. Geophys. Union Geophys. Mono. Ser. 29, 130 (1984).
It’s not science unless it is falsified. He isn’t releasing his methodology, so how much you publish is irrelevant.
@ David Ball:
“It’s not science unless it is falsified. He isn’t releasing his methodology, so how much you publish is irrelevant.”
I think you mean it’s not science unless it’s falsifiable.
Hey, give us his email address and the email address of his so called superior.
They will soon find out they are not in the majority.
They’re in a rush because they fear the elections in less than two years will change it all for them. And it will.
REPLY: Gary, welcome. Here is Jim Hansen’s email: jhansen@giss.nasa.gov
His supervisor is Robert Strain at Goddard Space Flight Center: rstrain@gsfc.nasa.gov
Seriously doubt that old dog would listen to anyone with a different opinion.
I send an e-mail to the hansen address and the “rstrain@gsfc.nasa.gov” address. The rstrain address bounced saying it could not be delivered. It was “rejected by the recipient domain.”
Also, his direct supervisor would be the Director of Earth Sciences Division (Code 600) at Goddard Space Center.
Director, Franco Einaudi
franco.einaudi@nasa.gov
Next up the list would be Dr. Nicholas White, Director Of Sciences and Exploration Directorate (Can’t find his Email Addy)
THEN would be Rob Strain Director of Goddard Flight Center.
Doc
It’s fine with me if they replace the Capitol Power Plant’s coal system with the Capitol Nuclear Power Plant.
Use clean, green nuclear power to replace natural 100% organic coal ? Naw.
Just shut the coal plant down and let them suffer a Browner-out. The less power DC gets the better.
They should just close the plant down for a week or so, that should concentrate minds.
So, how much of the US grid are we talking about taking down here?
From this site: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table1_1.html
Last year, 3,771,908 Thousand Megawatthours of electricity were produced.
1,824,137 Thousand Megawatthours were from Coal Fired Plants.
That’s 48.3%.
Hansen wants the US to cut it’s electricity consumption by almost 1/2.
And substitute with what? Imported oil? Or just plain do without.
I won’t go into the need to stay warm, take baths, refrigerate your food, cook dinner, keep abreast of the news, etc.
But I do know that Redding, CA, has outlawed firewood, and will evict you from your home if you fail to maintain electric power.
Jim Hansen, master puppeteer, what a piece of work!
“A scientist refers to individuals who use the scientific method. Scientific method refers to bodies of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.”
Mr. Hansen doesn’t fall into this category. In the Guadian we wrote, that in his opinion “climate science only cristallised in recent years.”. However, he started his aggressive activist carrer already in 1988, pushing media and politicians – without foundation – if his own view point is correct.
His predictions since then have long been disquialified, even if he uses his own strange temperature records. These GISS temperatures reveal his disinterest in correcting errors, disinterest in acquiring new knowledge about real current and historic temperatures and in applying new techniques.
It should read below, “About 50% of the power required to produce this supplied by coal”.
I hope Al Gore joins in. Sure to snow on March 2nd then.
In Australia we have had enough and have formed the World’s first political party that opposes all ETS and carbon taxes. Called the ” Climate Sceptics” we chose this name because we know that is what the warmaholics call us. Australians are known for their ironic sense of humor.
Australia like the US has become captive of the environmental loony fringe. Our James Hansen equivalent is Tim Flannery.
Australia being Australia we have the chance to have a significant role to play in Australian politics even if we can get just one member elected into the Senate.
Last week one Senator held the Australian Govt to ransom over their economic stimulus package and won, gaining hundreds of millions of dollars for the Murray/ Darling River system which is suffering at the moment from drought (always happens, will again), over alocation of irrigation licences and plain stupid Govt policy.
If you would like to see what we are about visit http://www.climatesceptics.com.au .
Maybe in the US and other like minded communities you could use the same idea to unite those opposed to bad science and form your own party. We will be a useful experiment for you to watch.
If you are Australian and are sick of the nonsense come join us. We need 500 members to get our name on the ballot paper for elections. Time to put the weights on all political parties for ignoring the debate that has to happen.
I’m on my way to sign up.
Good on you. Get your webhosters ready for the onslaught, I hope they know all about resisting DOS attacks. I see they are running linux so should be ok. Best of luck with the campaign.
I don’t know about Australia, but in the USA single-issue political parties are generally regarded as kooks (I think the Prohibition Party still runs a candidate for President). Political action is what’s needed, though, and applause is deserved.
I recommend the term Realist rather than ‘Skeptic’, because while skepticism is the proper attitude for science, in the context of the AGW debate the term has become almost equivalent to ‘heretic’, i.e. a denier of Received Wisdom, and has acquired a negative connotation in the mind of the public.
I’d like to see a Realist party here in the USA, devoted not only to Climate Realism (instead of Alarmism) but to Economic Realism (prosperity is based on Growth, and that means Energy, of which we have plenty—if the Alarmists don’t stop us from using it).
BTW, Realists have at least one stalwart ally in the Congress: Sen. James Inhofe, of Oklahoma. I suggest contacting his office to see what he can possibly do to put the brakes on Hansen and on the EPA’s plan to ‘regulate’ CO2. With any luck, he’ll be able to enlist the help of Senators and Congressmen from coal- and oil-producing states as well.
/Mr Lynn
We definately need a strong third party here in the US .. Im so tired of the swing back and forth between the Rep and Dems. A third party would break up the majority rules garbage and force all the sides to work together. Trouble is, most of the ‘third’ parties are more wacko then the main two.
Remember when Ross P. ran for a while.. ya know all it would take right now is for one person like that to take power away from both parties, and a reasonable middle road third party that doesnt focus on OLD ISSUES and would act reasonably, would win big time. I cant be the only one in the world who thinks all the petty fighting between Rep and Dem parties has hit a serious rut. Hard to move forward when youre stuck in a rut.
Just a personal note:
You Aussies are a tough bunch – so I’ll be watching. Got to know some of you in Viet Nam. Good people all, but don’t cross them…
You can give the namby-pamby US a lesson in government – Please, we need it.
Mike
I hope I wouldn’t look that sinister if I made an advertisement for Greenpeace.
Before commenting here, I went to whitehouse.gov and posted the following query:
———-
I have just viewed a video on-line where a government official was urging people to join in an “action,” a protest to let the Congress and the President know where Americans stand on global warming.
The video is posted at
and the official is Dr. James Hansen of NASA.
What is the administration’s policy on government officials and “actions” that border on civil disobedience?
——————–
I doubt if I will get a response, but I at least wanted to get something in the new White House system on this.
If there are such things as a crimes against science, Dr. Hansen should be indicted.
This is a very disturbing interview. These people are dangerous and totalitarian. The future our children will inherit will be different if ever these people are free to run the world today.
If I am not mistaken, there is a federal law on the books that prohibits anyone who receives federal money (i.e. research grants, etc.; not sure about a govt salary) from lobbying the government.
XQ – It’s called the Hatch Act – and is mentioned elsewhere in this post/thread.
Oh my…..in reality, the man should resign from his position and join one of the organizations that espouses his ideal of a world minus electricity. He adovocates coal’s end, now, as a source of energy. We have no viable alternative to take the immediate action he wants.
I can’t separate the man from his work, his position as GISS nor the advocacy he so clearly states. This is why he must go. But …the government has many protections for it’s employees, and this one seems protected, even as outrageouss he has become, by the reaction of the legions out there, that he is being silenced.
He can’t leave his position, then others could get a look at his methods and he would be exposed. He is like an embezzler who cannot afford to have anyone else look at the books.
If he left his position then he could not use it to make his voice bigger than it is.
Think what Ike would have done!
1. He would have been fired.
2. He would have been arrested.
3. He would have been trialed for treason.
Coal is an essential part of the US energy system.
Any conspiracy with the object to disrupt or endangers the continuity of the US energy infra structure is considered an act of treason.
Today he is part of the scientific conspiracy which is protected by the US President so they can rip off the American people based on a hoax.
This country is led by con artists.
The interesting thing is…some of the Greenpeace agenda is rational and plausible (hence my screen name).
The WORST thing is…that the truth is lost in the noise…from both sides.
Neither Democrats nor Republicans nor ANY party in our “two-party” system (LOL) have shown a REAL concern for the advancement of pure Science.
From the failed Bush Administration to the Obama’s appointment of the ultimate politician, John Holdren, as his “Science Advisor”…we have shown continually and time and time again….that we are not the leader of the free world whose primary concern is the pursuit of the truth.
Perhaps the microw from Australia is correct. A new party needs to be formed in the U.S. The Science Party it shall be called….and its main “agenda” is advancing science and the pursuit of truth.
Anything to prevent Ellsworth Toohey Hansen from ever using his ill-gotten sphere of influence to wreak havoc on the public trust and the scientific method…again.
It’s unfortunate but many organizations like Greenpeace that start out with admirable aims get hijacked by generally leftwing extremists.
It happens that I have flown over and driven through the truly vast palm oil plantations that are destroying SE Asia’s tropical rainforests at a terrifying rate. This is easily the worst ecological disaster of my lifetime, all in the name of ‘green’ biofuels demanded by the AGW hysteria.
SaveTheSharks (21:34:08) :
[…] “Neither Democrats nor Republicans nor ANY party in our “two-party” system (LOL) have shown a REAL concern for the advancement of pure Science. […]”
There really isn’t a two party system in the U.S. any more. There are the Demlicans and the Republicrats; the political parties are pretty near interchangable.
There is the political class and then there are the rest of us supporting the political class. They used to have jobs and came to legislate from time to time. Now it’s a career or in many cases, the family business.
C02? Hey, if that’s what works, then that’s what they are going to run with. It doesn’t matter what the science is. “Get elected. Stay elected.”
I cannot wait to read all about these times in fifty years time. What a hoot that will be.
F Rasmin.
Those clay tablets are going to be a bitch to carry mind you.
Only if sense wins out, if not, then you may not be alive in fifty years. Civilisation will disintegrate very quickly without the coal and oil that sustains it currently.
I am not against new technologies that do not produce CO2 and we should be finding those technologies. IF the conspiracy theorists are right and oil companies and Auto mobile companies are sitting these technologies, NOW would be the time to exploit them. UNTIL those technologies become available, (and Government should be doing a LOT more than it is to research into them) then we still NEED the coal and the oil.
Dr Hansen is a very dangerous man indeed.
Naw, it will just disappear in time like the 70’s 🙂 ha
[OT] Anyone know what happened to Climate Audit? Did the Luddites kill the site?
REPLY: see the story on the righthand recent post links
Over the past week or so I’ve developed a theory about Dr. Hansen.
The null hypothesis: Dr. Hansen is a great human being and will be remembered in the league with Copernicus, Newton, Bohr, and Einstein.
The alternative hypothesis: Dr. Hansen is going to be remembered with the likes of . . .
Hmm, who were those blokes? Now where is my copy of:
“Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science” by Martin Gardner
I do wonder if he or some close family member was slighted by the coal and/or power industry. Or, perhaps, the family lived by railroad tracks used by coal trains and he was sleep-deprived and remains a bit off kilter. I suppose only his shadow knows.
I heard a saying that sums it all up for me:
“The lunatics have taken over the asylum”.
God help us………..
It happens very now and then.
Being unsustainable, it never lasts.
Unfortunately a large number of folks (and stuff) can get hurt in the process of abuse of the asylum followed by it’s retaking…
I only hope that some of the idiocy is present over the next two years so that the next US election can toss these Luddites from office before it’s too late for us.
I doubt Strain, a democrat with a bachelors in business, would do anything.
I sent the site to foxnews.
I would recommend sending to CNN and the Lou Dobbs show. Occasionally he will run with a story like this and seems to hold a fair amount of credibility both right and left, and has a lot of influence to people in the center.
Perhaps one of you eloquently speaking individuals (there are several here) would be so kind to prepare a sensible draft that may get a serious looksie?
Drafted a fairly objective email to Mr Strain – and received…..
“Delivery to the following recipients failed permanently:”
Which is par for the course. I followed my email up with my 2 Senators and 1 Representative. He can’t be in the position he occupies, and advocate in this manner. It is a clear conflict of interest, and as a private citizen, he would be unfettered in pursuing his stated goals.
What ever happened to my generation’s motto ” Challenge Authority”. I have debated AGW with many people and none of them can go much further than I don’t know but the scientists says….. This generation is more lemming like.
I like Ike’s warning.
I never knew it even existed before, until someone posted it…Ike’s 2nd warning.
That would make for a great story in the headlines as the demonstration to cut half the power in the US off is going on.
It’s even worse for me. I remember seeing Ike’s warning years ago but just didn’t make the connection. Perhaps reminding Hansen’s supervisors and the administration of Ike’s warning would be appropriate.
Normally I no longer post on threads about Hansen, Gore, et al, since I find myself wanting to describe them in uncomplimentary, snipable 3 and 4 letter words — passion tends to overcome logic.
I’m so fundamentally furious and outraged at Ike’s first warning that I have a hard time paying much heed to his second warning.
Besides, I don’t think the scientists are leading us over a cliff. I don’t think there is a consensus among scientists on this issue in the first place. (I wrote a guest post here on the role of science last March 8th, and I have not changed my mind since then.)
It’s hard to beleive that this nut case would demand we end 50% of our US power source.
Science has turned politics so,,,
I hate to go this way but the only way there can be any pressure is by placing the blame for this madness on the ruling Democrat party.
There are many Democrats sitting in silence who know this fraud is unfolding but resist temptations to sway.
It must be made clear and loud that the Democrat Party and their status quo power and control will not escape blame and consequences for this AGW crusade.
@John F. Hultquist (21:43:18) : “I do wonder if he or some close family member was slighted by the coal and/or power.”
I wonder if there is some pathological mental instability that runs in his family.
Yes, there is. The only question is how many generations… 1, 2, …
In the video, Hansen says “join us in this action, this protest” and that information “can be found on capitolclimateaction.org “.
A link on that site, “action guidelines”, goes to http://www.capitolclimateaction.com/?page_id=2
“We expect thousands or people to participate, with large numbers risking arrest in a peaceful act of civil disobedience, surround the plant, disrupting access, and refusing to leave when asked.”
It may very well be that Hansen can be held personally responsible and liable for advocating the breaking of laws, and perhaps liable for any criminal activity that results. At the very least, if any “civil disobedience” occurs, Hansen will be implicated in the news.
I really want this to happen. Everyone knows that coal supplies a very large part of out energy needs. Disrupting the functioning of a coal plant will just show the world how nutty Hansen is.
Come to think of it, maybe Hansen inspired Greenpeace mass demonstration at the Captial Power Plant is a great idea. I know a lot of Americans get really turned off when they see these demonstrations. Especially when they get the news that half the power in the US is going to get cut.
Vegetarians for global warming!
🙂
Our power Not Flower Power
“Save the plants! They need CO2, and we do too!”
Pun intended. How about a bumper sticker?
/Mr Lynn
Excellent, I’ll buy that one.
“CO2! Good for YOU!”
“Got breath?”
“Feed a plant. Exhale.”
Something to look up: South Africa has suffered from lack of planning, power plant planning that is. I saw some videos of before & after thier common rolling blackouts. In one, you see cars, massive city lights etc. In the next frame, you see the same scene with cars, but no city lights. They hadn’t even figured out how to cut the street lights and office buidlings to avoid blackout.
I believe the US is hard wired in much the same way.
You can’t walk over and shut off a major portion of a city’s lights.
Residential being 1/3 total consumption, and cutting 1/2 the grid out, means guaranteed nationwide rolling blackouts.
And the price of electric power will increase ten-fold.
[snip – no labeling please]
He’s both.
Don’t real scientists fully reveal their nonproprietaty, nonclassified data and methods?
If a body doesn’t operate openly it doesn’t necessarily mean they are wrong. He may be right or he may be wrong. But what he is doing–right or wrong–falls more under the definition of “alchemy” than “science”.
Shoot, I want to go there and counter-demonstrate against those leftist weenies.
I think shutting down the Capitol Power Plant is the only good idea Hansen has ever come up with! Let our congressmen in the Capitol find out what life is like without fossil fuel power. That’ll be the end of CO2 regulation!
Turn out the lights, the party’s over………
Yes indeed! Shut down the killer D.C. power plant. Rolling blackouts in the Potomic Basin this summer and every summer!
After all – BIG GOVERNMENT didn’t really get started there until Carrier’s electric-powered air conditioning allowed the Congress and the Beaurocracy to flourish right through the D.C. Dog Days of Summer.
Let them steam naturally in the UHI-fortified Foggy Bottom Summer!
BHOphobe
Unfortunately, the Capitol is no longer directly fed from that plant. The power is fed into the grid. If this power plant shuts down, others will continue feeding the city, although not as efficiently due to greater distance. The plant knows of the demonstration so will simply have a secured perimeter and continue operations, with things returning to normal when the protesters get back in their minivans and go back home. Film at 11, with closeup wide-angle shots so it looks like there is a crowd even if there are only a dozen people.
Re: Robert Rust (20:32:45) :,
Yes, the video doesn’t say anything other than protest. However, at the end of the video, Hansen gives a link to go to and on the link at the top in huge letters, it says:
MASS CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE at the Coal Fired Capital Power Plant, Washington DC.
So as far as I’m concerned, he IS advocating disobedience.
I hope we have a good sized counter protest there…
I hope they DO shut it down, as stated previously, because if it’s disruptive enough, there’s a chance the media will pick up on his Youtube video and make the connection.
Not sure what it would accomplish in the end though…as was pointed out earlier, poor poor Jimmy would just come across as being censored or picked on.
JimB
They will probably get as many (read; as few) people as Al’s Live Earth concert. To use a term that seems popular with the AGW proponents commenting on WUWT; fail.
Hey hey, it’s Jimmy “Che” Hansen. Riot on, Jimmy!
Maybe after his DC mass demonstration, he’ll join the revolutionary cadres. Come the Revolution gonna be no more limousines! Or coal plants! Maybe he’ll buddy up with Obama advisor Bill Ayers in the Weather Underground II. Now that would be ironic on many levels.
Would somebody please tell Jimmy (and Al) that mass”civil disobedience” is passe? I mean, it’s so 1960’s. The nostalgia for street riots is misplaced. The whole deal is so silly. Like, grow up dude!
Maybe Jimbo’s a bit peeved at ‘missing’ the 60s.
DaveE.
Very good observation.
Here in Denver, there was a great deal of talk about ‘civil disobedience’ during the DNC prior to the convention. Millions and millions of dollars were spent preparing the police for the riots and disorder that were sure to follow the crowds. A special holding area was set up to process the thousands to be arrested during the convention. Some likened it to some sort of concentration camp or little Gitmo on the Platte.
After all the build up: nothing. There was one sort of round up of ‘trouble makers’ including one elderly gentleman who was caught up in the scene after picking up some books at the library. The police let him go when he produced his receipts showing he really had been at the library. In the subsequent trial, a total waste of taxpayer monies, the police could not identify a single individual actually guilty of breaking the law.
What an embarrassment. Denver couldn’t even get a good shouting session going, let alone a riot. Of course we were center stage for the anointing of the messiah, but that is another story. He made his ‘second return’ to Denver to sign the stimulus bill in our own Denver Museum of Natural History, which has a set of solar panels on the roof. Another display of how utterly futile alternative energy systems are. It supplies only 5% of the electrical needs of the museum, yet cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. I’ve noticed costs are never mentioned in the glowing media coverage of this nonsense.
Anyway, on the first day of the convention, I went downtown to the library, after which I wandered around the Civic Center to see what was going on. Naturally, I took my camera. The only thing going on down there was dozens of other people with their cameras, trying to find something to take a picture of.
Very funny.
So you’re right, civil disobedience is so 20th century and there is a nostalgia for those ‘good old days’. But there is just not the anger so palpable back in the 60s, thank goodness. Everybody’s too busy now trying to survive financially. Just wait until the electric bill goes up when we get the carbon tax schemes going. Or gasoline taxes at a dollar a gallon. AGW will be thoroughly discredited. Even if the average person felt AGW was a real threat, it will be treated much like Korea and Hungary were treated back in the 50s, lots of yelling about liberating those people, but not worth a nuclear exchange. Same will go for the polar bears. We really wish we could do something for you, but we aren’t willing to pay the price. There will always be a few in the zoos and we can take comfort in that.
However, AGW will be discredited on the facts alone. This sad episode of a group of people taking themselves so seriously will be a joke in the future. Much as tulip mania is now a joke today.
Could it be that Hansen is getting ready to jump from NASA before he is pushed?
If he is in contravention to the Hatch act, he would probably be cognizant of that fact….. He looks canny enough to know that any publicity is good publicity….and thick skinned enough to love the criticism. He also knows that he will be welcomed to partisan groups and given a healthy salary to feed from for years to come.
NCEP is forecasting temperatures 4-8 degrees below normal through March 2 in Washington.
http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp1.html
Snow would be a nice touch too.
Lol. The Hansen effect in action. We just need Steven Chu to turn up with Al Gore and bring on the sub-zero precipitation.
Yes, the latest weather models are still favoring temperatures below to much below the 30Y (1971-2000) normal on March 2nd. We’ll just need to find a little snow now…
We’ll see, but hopefully few will show up. I browsed thru their website:
http://www.capitolclimateaction.com/
Pretty spooky stuff!!…….then I somehow navigated to
http://www.powershift09.org/
then scrolled down to a photo from caitlinmary’s fliker page. Since I don’t know how to post an image, I’ll give you the url
This is how some people view the world:
http://flickr.com/photos/caitlinmary/3006865124/
Our friend AlGore. Even one of the commenters compares it to 1984
Comment’s are enabled at the forum section of capitolclimateaction. There’s no realclimate type moderator (although you are talking to mostly children and should refrain from cuss words, personal attacks, spamming). Your words aren’t spindled folded or mutilated. So give the children a bit of wisdom.
You might even make a difference.
What forum section? Which tab is that under?
Hardly surprising. Hansen testified in support of Greenpeace vandals that defaced a power plant in the UK back in September.
If I owned the power plant, I would shut it down, for 1 month for “repairs”.
I wonder what NASA thinks of James Hansen being on the front page of the the Greenpeace web site?
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/
I wonder what America would think?
POISON PEAS IN A POD
http://www.igreens.org.uk/greenpeace_and_peta.htm
I liked the PETA link. Reminded me of this: click
[And no, that’s not a parody. It’s the real thing. Click on the image to expand.]
An interesting web site.
The Action Now menu is something else.
The fourth option is:-
“Help give food to Starving ……………”
So what could it be?
a) Children
b) Americans
c) Africans
No it is “Sea Life”.
Save a starving Barnacle.
The next menu option “Tell Japan that if defending whaling is a crime, YOU’RE ready to be arrested”. Like the YOU bit, would have preferred WE.
Hmmm…. I clicked on the video and got:
We’re sorry, this video is no longer available.
So, like WUWT?
Never mind… It’s working now, must have been an internet glitch…
“… And for the record, as an anarchist, my first choice is never to put energy into influencing politicians to get things done. But sometimes, that is a logical step along the way to greater goals, and I support that.”
This is a direct quote of one of the intending participants from the climate org blog organising this protest. Unfortunately these things are not about environmentalism but “greater goals” for cultural haters.
Regards
Michael
Sorry, a link to that quote – http://www.capitolclimateaction.com/?page_id=350 click on the ‘dressing to impress’ hyperlink for this discussion. See message #24 by ‘jen Angel’
I’m hoping Al Gore shows up and brings his blizzard with him… that ought to freeze the idiots who are contemplating coming to the rally.
If the Obama administration goes ahead and implements Carbon taxes this can be the undoing of his plans to gain a second term if the climate continues to remain cold. Freezing Americans will vote him out of office since they’ll be forced to pay higher costs for energy.
Americans, in general, haven’t figured out they’re going to be paying for TARP, the “stimulus”, Social Security, TARP II, and the upcoming mortgage plan. If you believe the MSM, most Americans don’t know what the “A” in ARM stands for or that contracts are really good things to read before you sign. For Americans willingness to re-elect public office holders that are a bit shady, how about the Alaskan Senator in the last election? Seems like there’s still at least one Senator still in office that accepted a bribe on video, stored the money in his freezer, and is still in office! And now the American people are willing to buy the above programs and the idea that we’re going to be fiscally conservative this year at the same time.
Carbon taxes will be “something only business will pay”, right? That’s what they’re being told. Sock it to the rich. Won’t affect me.
If you could get them to shut down every coal-fired plant for just one day, you might get some attention. Let them run the country on air and solar for a week. Otherwise, I’m not sure the idea of how much we depend on fossil fuels will really stick.
It seems that Thaddeus Stevens was railroaded by a corrupt and criminal prosecution. Check it out, there have been recent developments.
==========================================
The airlines which were affected by the environ-mentalists ‘Plane Stupid’s sit down on the runway protest at Stanstead airport are considering suing the individuals for damages and banning them from using their planes.
Perhaps the US energy producers should do the same here and refuse to supply those who damage or blockade their plant.
Maybe the airlines should refuse to do business with people who are detrimental to their business. Let people find other ways to travel to their Global Warming protests and pseudoscientific conferences.
This is like one of those protests in the U.S.S.R. during
the 80s, when government protestors, protested for
the policies of the government. I don’t think our kids
are that stupid!
Are you sure, indoctrination as education, showing the inconvenient truth films in schools, if they dont know any different.
Voltaire said: “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
Sadly…no!
It seems time to recall how Prof James Hansen explained climate changes 30 years ago. Back in 1981 the James Hansen team published their finding that, overall, Earth’s average temperature rose by about 0.4°C for the period from 1880 to 1978, but there was a global cooling from 1940-1970 (*) that he considered subsequently as follows: “I think the cooling that Earth experienced through the middle of the twentieth century was due in part to natural variability,” he said. “But there’s another factor made by humans which probably contributed, and could even be the dominant cause: aerosols.” If he indeed believed in this mechanism, his call for civil disobedience in coal burning matters show inconsistency in his argumentation. Actually one should ask him to explain the global cooling from 1940 to about 1970 in the first place, (see: http://www.oceanclimate.de/Archiv/apr_08.html), to ensure to he understands what he is talking about.
(*) David Herring, November 5, 2007, „Earth’s Temperature Tracker“ , NASA at : http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/GISSTemperature/printall.php
“If he indeed believed in this mechanism, his call for civil disobedience in coal burning matters show inconsistency in his argumentation.”
No it does not. the climatic effects of aerosols, such as the cooling effect from burning coal, lasts only a year or so at most, until the aerosols are washed out of the atmosphere by rain. The warming effect of the CO2 emitted lasts for hundreds of years.
How do you know? Reread your source, paying attention to mention of “uncertainty”, “estimated”, and “unknown”.
AGW…………….. Science or religion ?
The term “religion” refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.
One comparison I have head lately is the parallel between AGW and religious belief. If you examine the definition of religion you will see there is a big similarity with AGW philosophy. Both are based on a belief system with little or no scientific basis, or where contradictory scientific facts are ignored or manipulated. (eg: earth is 10k yo, created in 7 days, Adam & Eve…etc)
You can even look at how the AGW sermon is being run. With Al Gore as head of the church and many deciples (eg: Mr Hansen) preaching to the masses. Now the followers are assembling on mass in formalised gatherings to help strengthen their convictions amid real scientific evidance which is contradictory to their engrained belief system. As more scientific evidance to the contrary is presented then we will see a further intensity of this AGW conviction since the realisation of much time spent on a wasted belief would be all too painfull to swallow.
Remember when the earth was preached as the centre of the universe by the Catholic Church (aside from being flat !). Gallilao spent 8 years under house arrest for preaching a round earth which orbited the sun. A claim he was forced to recant in order to aviod being executed.
Being scientifically correct does not always mean you will be accepted by all others. But it does give a warm feeling inside, regardless of the cold outside.
You are mis-stating the details of this debate. Check out wmbriggs.com on this topic.
More precisely see footnote 1 here: http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?s=Galileo&submit=Go
Amen.
People should look up the Trostkyist tactic called ‘entryism’, they set up front groups with apparently reasonable goals to atract large groups and they direct that for there own purposes. Here in the UK in the 80s we had a group of them in the Labour party called millitant. Now one of the Trotskyist groups called “Socialist Workers Party” has done the same with the Stop the War coaltion of traitors (Lindsey Germain the leader of STW is one of the leaders of the SWP). Google for this its all on the public record. Now the SWP is moving into the climate agenda!
Perhaps the whole climate change agenda is just a plot cooked up by the Marxists to disrupt capitalism and freedom…..
Perhaps? There is no perhaps about it. The people who get a warm feeling at the notion of cuddling polar bears and hugging trees without actually doing so or burdening themselves with any knowledge of the real world ( I would guess the overwhelming majority) are the sheep that these people shear. They think they are saving the planet when they are unwittingly doing the opposite. Hansen made some tastless comparisons in his diatribe about coal trains. His supporters seem to be rather blind to what might well happen should his veiws prevail.
The original YouTube of Hansen’s polemic is here:
It’s interesting reading the comments on YouTube from the general public [they can be viewed by scrolling down to just below the original YouTube video of Hansen].
I occasionally wonder if the people posting here are the ones out of step with the general consensus. But after reading the comments on YouTube, it’s clear that Hansen, the executive councils of the AAAS, and the “leaders” of the other peer review journals are the ones who are out of step with their members and the general public.
[Also, it doesn’t hurt to give a one-star [out of five] rating to the video. You can vote just under the video itself. Look for the red stars.]
Greenland near all time record low temperature, off topic.
All time low is – 63,3 Celcius.
Yesterday we had – 62,0 Celcius – and the cold is not over yet it seems:
http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/opdaterede-sol-is-hav-temp-grafer-osv–d12-e424-s240.php#post_10852
Here is the direct link to the coldest place on Greenland, Summit:
http://www.summitcamp.org/transport/weatherstation/mainpage.py?view=Month
Right now as i write we have – 56, but its day temperature..
All the best to you at WUWT!! – Frank
Science is clear eh.. Which definition of clear is he using.
clear meaning, easily seen through (as in a lie as people on this board see through hansens and gores pronouncments). or
clear meaning easily visible, (as in simple to understand)
or even Clear meaning unhampered by restriction or limitation (clear profit)
I believe that would be, as the expression goes, clear as mud!
Frank Lansner
Was there record cold four weeks ago also in Greenland when the US, UK, and Germany had record cold?
what we need is plenty of anti hansen people carrying signs like “hansen lies”
“sack hansen” etcetc, and hand out rebuttal information , the media will pick up on it if there is enough protest it will help to undermine his public credability .
Media will ignore it.
Better to let the media have a laugh at all the warmies freezing their buns off in DC on the 2nd. The irony won’t be lost on the public. Jim is a novice when it comes to organising demos. Always pick a summer weekend for this kind of caper.
How about a counter demo in July? Everyone can come in sunglasses and T-shirts and have some fun in the sun.
How about July 4, on the Mall? I’ve already arranged for flags, music, and carbon-filled fireworks. Maybe you can take a day off from work, just ask your boss if you have to work on July 4.
We can’t be there waving signs. We have work to do.
Federal employees should also be aware that certain political activities may also be criminal offenses under title 18 of the U.S. Code. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 210, 211, 594, 595, 600, 601, 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 610.
Awww. Anthony.
Why did you go and warn him? We could have got rid of him once and for all. Now Jimmy is going to pull an Eli Rabett.
Say could this be the reason that the Tamino’s and Eli Rabett’s of the alarmist world use psuedonyms instead of real names?
Frog marching a rabett for violation of the Hatch Act. How cool would that be huh?
Perhaps Tamino IS James Hansen?
I love the way the students rate “Eli Rabett” on ratemyprofessors.com: click
There seems to be a continual argument on here that links warmists with left wing politics. This could be true that most warmists are left wing. It does not follow that left wingers are all warmists. I am in sympathy with a lot of left wing views and I am sure that this continual linking of left wing and warmist philosophy is counter productive and not scientific, except in a vague trend sort of way. I do find it rather offensive and off putting. Can the arguments be made without the broad brush condemnation?
jeez concurs. It is time to break away from the stereotype that believing in AGW defines one as part of the political left, or the converse, that being a skeptic defines one on the political right (or makes you a flat earther, creationist, drooling neanderthal etc.)
Agreement here as well, FWIW.
Unfortunately, the AGW myth has been co-opted by the extreme ‘environmental’ and the socialist Left, because it’s such a handy-dandy stick with which to beat the evil capitalists, and it’s knocking off great anti-corporate, anti-American fruit.
It must be tough being a liberal and watching good science being trashed for purely ideological motives—sort of like being a conservative and having to deal with the whacky Creationists.
/Mr Lynn
Don’t deny it is being used as a stick to beat capitalism. No coincidence that this whole climate thing started just as the former soviet union collapsed.
But we should avoid the discussion being dismissed as the ravings of “right wing bigots”. That is how the skeptic argument could be traduced. So it is important that the points be made without the tone that allows the arguments to be dismissed and not to be answered!
Lindsay H
Rather than slogans surely we could produce a factual version of the Hockey stick. The Keeling Curve/ Mann hockey stick only work if the Bristlecone pines are highly selected and Global temperatures to 1850 used. This latter measurement has no scientific basis whatsover-as well as being a meaningless concept it is based on a tiny number of inconsistent and unreliable stations (as few as 100 in 1850 of which 40 are known to be inaccurate).
If you use National records that go back far enough the Keeling Curve/HS doesnt work. These are unsmoothed Hadley CET to 1660 (without removal of last 50 years UHI)
http://cadenzapress.co.uk/download/man_vs_nature.jpg
More a series of irregular humps than a Hockey stick. Project that back to Roman times and it would start to look quite cool in the modern day.
These would look good on a placard!
tonyB
“The Keeling Curve/ Mann hockey stick only work if the Bristlecone pines are highly selected and Global temperatures to 1850 used.”
What on Earth are you talking about?
The Keeling Curve is the graph of atmospheric CO2 concentrations measured at Mauna Loa since 1958.
The Hockey Stick(s) refer to graph(s) of average global (or northern hemisphere) temperatures that show a rapid increase in temperatures in recent decades such that recent temperatures exceed any for the last thousand or more years. Both those using bristlecone pines and those using no tree-ring data at all show similar results.
They are based on entirely separate datasets.
Lindsay H, TonyB (04:11:50) :
“‘Rather than slogans surely we could produce a factual version of the Hockey stick. The Keeling Curve/ Mann hockey stick only work if the Bristlecone pines are highly selected and Global temperatures to 1850 used. This latter measurement has no scientific basis whatsover-as well as being a meaningless concept it is based on a tiny number of inconsistent and unreliable stations (as few as 100 in 1850 of which 40 are known to be inaccurate).
If you use National records that go back far enough the Keeling Curve/HS doesnt work. These are unsmoothed Hadley CET to 1660 (without removal of last 50 years UHI)
http://cadenzapress.co.uk/download/man_vs_nature.jpg
More a series of irregular humps than a Hockey stick. Project that back to Roman times and it would start to look quite cool in the modern day.’
“These would look good on a placard!”
Great idea!!! If the same one, two, or three visuals were used by all supporters of science and the scientific method, attention might be paid.
(I hope the quotation marks are properly placed.)
T-shirts with an actual temperature graph are available:
http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/open-thread-and-a-silly-mug/
Better wear long johns fi you’re going.
http://www.wetter24.de/de/home/wetter/profikarten/gfs_popup/archiv/NAmerica/t2m/2009022306/nothumb/on/174/ch/725ac064ce.html
I am british, i dont have any political axes. right is right and wrong is wrong, i hate liars. and i Beleive that AGW is one of the biggest lies out there at the moment.
people are getting bogged down in where to stand, its not about that its about the future, do we want to belong to a world where lies rule. where obvious flaws in methodology denies human rights.
AGW should cross every political strata, every religious, every barrier. thats what we need to do get everyone from all walk of life from every country to stand up and be counted.
You’re right.
But seems one political spectrum (The Left) employs the art of lying far more than some others do.
The Left doesn’t Lie as such, it just regards emotional conviction as an acceptable substitute for rational thought.
The Hatch Act is mostly a hollow shell. Even if by some miracle Hansen was found to have violated the act the most he’d get is a slap and a 30 day non-paid vacation from his government employment since it’s unlikely it would be ruled sufficient to remove him. Twenty year government employees are about as safe from prosecution as your dead great-great-great grandparents.
Let’s see, the Office of Special Counsel. Any guesses as to who staffs offices like these in the Federal Government? Then they refer it to the Inspector General of the agency involved. For Hansen, any guesses who staffs that office? Check http://www.osc.gov/wbdisc.htm if you’re really interested in filing a complaint. imho, not even worth the time to read this post. Anyway, the process could take years.
A better strategy would be to simple discredit him in the court of public opinion. There seems to be ample proof for that. What is needed is a better megaphone than blog sites.
Maybe a reply on his you tube video linking a video refuting his BS (bad science)?
“Let’s see, the Office of Special Counsel. Any guesses as to who staffs offices like these in the Federal Government? ”
From the other side the further it all goes before it seen to be a busted flush, the bigger the bonfire of scapegoats afterwards. Ex-warmists will lynch Hansen to show that they never believed. Gore may well slime out of it, but Hansen is toast.
Make sure you place your opinion on their facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?sid=25c7b5b46781c6403746dca1e1dfa5a8&eid=50666378622
I think calling for James Hansen to be fired is extremely imprudent.
He is a towering figure in the movement to promote AGW, second only to Al Gore. His position in NASA is probably the only thing holding him back at all. If he is fired he will immediately be free to accept massive funding and to exploit his stature to campaign vastly more actively and–I am afraid–successfully.
The very last thing we want is Hansen off the leash.
If you want to write to his boss, how about suggesting that he be given a vast budget to study the atmosphere of Jupiter or Mars?
Good grief, is this, and his recent ‘death trains’ comment, a display of Hansen on the leash? If he’s on a leash from NASA it’s pretty thin and darn near invisible.
What, in situ?
why is he a kook?
cause his ideas are radical and crazy sounding?
One thing that might rile demonstrators is the fact that Hansen supports nuke energy.
How about spreading the word that Hansen is a shill for the nuke industry? Certainly a motive for campaigning against coal as he does.
Hansen Supports Nuclear Power!
I’ll have more to say later, but there’s something I wanted to stay under the radar until closer to this weekend. However, plans change….
On Feb 28, Dr. Hansen will be giving the keynote speech at American Mensa’s Annual Colloquium. The program is heavily weighted toward the AGW camp, so I figured I was duty-bound to go and tout our side. For both that event and New Hampshire Mensa’s Regional Gathering a couple weekends ago, I wrote a report on the State of the Climate – 2009. I will also print out this article and part of the comment section and leave copies at various places around the event.
I am not going to become an anti-Hansen protester, but will stick to the science (or lack thereof). Well, I might point out that the emperor has no clothes.
The event is not open to the general public, and I’m not sure if there is a same day registration deal, but if for any Mensans out there who can make it to Dunwoody GA (Atlanta suburb), check it out, if you haven’t already. Please do not send anti-Hansen mail to the Colloquium organizers – I need some of their attention and will make them aware of this article.
It will be interesting to see how far Hansen strays from his planned address, from http://colloq09.us.mensa.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Program7 :
These people are nothing but criminals. Lets stop calling them anything else.
NASA Office of Inspector General
Some important contact information; full text available at:
http://oig.nasa.gov/investigations/field_offices.html
Eastern Field Office (EFO)
The Eastern Field Office is responsible for conducting criminal investigations in which NASA is a victim. The EFO also performs investigations involving waste and mismanagement…
Michael W. Sonntag, EFO Special Agent in Charge
Langley Research Center
Mail Stop 205, Building 1149 (Investigations)
Hampton VA 23681-2199
Voice: 757-864-8116; Fax: 757-864-9705
E-mail: Michael.W.Sonntag@nasa.gov
Joseph Schopper, GSFC Resident Agent in Charge
Goddard Space Flight Center
Code 190, Building 1 – Investigations
Greenbelt, MD 20771-0001
Voice: 301-286-7776; Fax: 301-286-0355
E-mail: Joseph.A.Schopper-1@nasa.gov
[more contacts given at web page above]
Text of Email.
FAO Robert Strain.
Dear Mr Strain,
I am a British subject and I resent you giving carte blanche to your inferior worker, to travel to my country and appear as an defence witness for people who are trespassing on private property. Your employee is also contravening the Hatch Act.
Federal and D.C. employees may not-
use official authority or influence to interfere with an election
solicit or discourage political activity of anyone with business before their agency
solicit or receive political contributions (may be done in certain limited situations by federal labor or other employee organizations)
be candidates for public office in partisan elections
engage in political activity while:
on duty
in a government office
wearing an official uniform
using a government vehicle
wear partisan political buttons on duty
Tell him to stop it please.
Yours truly,
Perry Debell
Slioch (06:32:57) : said
“The Keeling Curve/Mann hockey stick only work if the Bristlecone pines are highly selected and Global temperatures to 1850 used.”
What on Earth are you talking about?”
I think you have completely missed the point, although subsequent readers understood it!
The Keeling curve measures Atmospheric Co2 which allegedly is going up in line with temperatures-but only if the unrealistic 1850 global ones are used-not national data sets. The hockey stick relies on the same artefact. The temperatures does not in reality tick up like that at all so the co2 hypotheses relationship is unproven
http://cadenzapress.co.uk/download/man_vs_nature.jpg
Look again at the numerous ‘hockey sticks’ prior to Modern times which even happened during the LIA. What I am suggesting is that a graph of past temperatures (back to the Bronza Age) is more potent than slogans, especially if co2 is drawn in. Please re-read my post rather than suggesting I am saying something I did not. Thank you.
TonyB
If you believe in the Beck figures for CO2, little wonder you are confused. They are total nonsense. Note, for example, that they require the removal of some 200 billion tons of CO2 (from c.920,000 to 720,000 million tons) from the atmosphere within a couple of years or so around 1950, and show similar wild fluctuation s elsewhere. Perhaps you would like to suggest a mechanism as to how that could be accomplished. Such changes are completely beyond explanation – they are caused by wild sampling errors.
The Keeling Curve is not “allegedly” … “going up in line with temperatures”. Keeling started taking measurements in 1958. The measurements show annual variations due to changes in northern hemisphere vegetation plus an average increase in CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere that is itself is increasing (ie the graph is concave up). Those annual variations in the Keeling Curve verify the curve, since they show that it is sufficiently accurate to pick up repeated annual variations. Apart from that the Keeling Curve is a smooth upwards curve – completely at odds with the nonsense published by Beck for just a few decades earlier.
Expecting a close correlation between CO2 concentrations and average global temperature is fatuous, since other factors influence global temperatures, though the following graph indicates some correlation:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1908/to:2008/scale:1000/offset:10/plot/esrl-co2/from:1908/to:2008/scale:10/offset:-3000
Inhofe’s Enviroment and Public Works site is down. Does anyone know why?
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs
It looks like all of Senate.gov is down. Maybe the Revolution has started. 🙂
Nevermind, It’s back now.
I feel Hansen’s participation in the protest and the video are inappropriate. But, that is nothing unusual for him. It is amazing that he still has a job with NASA. Between his abusive of position and questionable management of data he should have been fired long ago. That would have occurred in an ethical world. However, I don’t think the Hatch Act can be employed against Hansen. The situation / case does not appear to be covered by Hatch.
I generally regard Watts Up With That as a science site. As such, I have in the past muted my political commentary when participating here. It is, however, great to have Anthony step into the realm of the political side of the carbon emission issue. AGW (in the Gore & Hansen definition), the IPCC, etc. after all are essentially political issues rather than a science issue. A big part of it was started by Maggie Thatcher for political purpose and it has remained so.
Gore and Hansen know that alarmism sells. Using alarmism they can keep the issue and their agendas (Gore to make money, Hansen to kill the coal industry) in the forefront of the media attention. Real science, rational thinking, is thus for the most part silenced. This blog entry, with the popularity of WUWT can help correct part of that.
Alarmism sells. Hence, with some regret, on my own blog I have cranked up the level of alarmist rhetoric. Fight fire with fire.
Democide
Fuel Poverty
Sloppy ‘Science’ ; Scientific and Political Negligence
Science – Ethic and Responsibility
Obama Appoints Socialist / Hansen recommends Redistribution of Wealth
Is ignoring potential dangerous climate non-specific genocide?
My blog is not as well known as WUWT. As stated above, it is great to see Anthony take a moment to use his level of web traffic to counter-attack the inappropriate action of Hansen.
Sincere Regards,
Lee Kington
To cedarhill (04:42:36)
The process may take years. But it never happens if it is never started. Further, a large influx of complaints brings heat AND media attention. That media attention opens the door to putting the issue in front of the populace. If they react, then pressure is also put on politicians. One cannot win a battle they don’t fight.
Lee Kington (07:24:03):
Those links don’t work.
/Mr Lynn
Point is even if a complaint is filed it would have no “legs” in MSM parlance. They would style him a “pioneer”, even a “whistleblower” and in any event an all around good guy championing the good green fight.
Time would be better spent simply discrediting his motives, his methods and his theories. Good satire tends to work best. The upcoming EPA finding CO2 a pollutant might present the opportunity to go after the science. Actually suing NOAA and the EPA might be even better.
Wow, you guys are getting really desperate here.
How exactly is Hansen violating the Hatch Act? Aren’t you really encouraging your readers to harass Hansen because you just don’t like the guy and his research? Pathetic.
REPLY: aren’t you giving him a free pass where if Roy Spencer was doing the same thing in reverse you’d be howling? Read the links to hatch act “Boris”.
Roy Spencer can do as he pleases. Which aspect of the Hatch Act do you think Hansen is violating? Are you claiming that blue shirt is a NASA uniform?
“Solicit or discourage political activity of anyone with business before their agency” Greenpeace is political, the rally is political, and greens pushing for regulation of CO2 cite Hansen’s work, with NASA, even going so far as to call him an expert witness, thus making it “business before their agency”. – Anthony
How does Greenpeace have business before NASA? Hansen being an expert witness is not business with NASA.
In any case, the Hatch Act explicitly states that federal employees may “attend and be active at political rallies and meetings.” Fail.
March 2 is the date. There is definitely a possiblity for a real ‘noreaster to hit DC on that date. i somewhat remember 2 storms of the Century hitting CT in early March 1993, both deadly blizzards for the East Coast. Wouldn’t it be nice!
Secondly, I remember something last year about the students at William and Mary wanted or invited Hansen to debate Pat Michaels, Michaels accepted but Hansen didn’t.
It appears he won’t debate the Realists.Probably they would make Hansen look like a charlatan.
Probably, the best way to show our displeasure is to inform his bosses and our Congressmen and Senators. I, however, am out of luck having Dodd and Lieberman as US Senators.
Quick note – Hansen is evangelizing to people who can join his crusade and help him reach his goals. A debate with Michaels doesn’t help achieve that. Last year he was a speaker at an Earth Day event (IIRC near Washington), so that fits with next week’s event.
You poor dear!
Don’t you see, they have to enact anti-global warming legislation urgently so that when the earth continues to cool they can take credit for it.
Perhaps all coal fired plants should shut down for maintenance on the same day. This might send the needed message of power.
I have mentioned similar counteraction while engaged in debates. One must ask:
What would happen if all of the coal mines quit shipping coal to steel plants and power plants. Or what would happen if all of the power plants shut down on the same day. Just shut it down. Refuse to restart until….
Hansen is fired.
Obama removes his science team and replaces them with objective scientists.
Obama calls for equal funding on both sides of the CO2 issue.
Obama calls for Open and unrestricted debate on the CO2 / AGW issue.
Obama agrees that he will NOT sign a global carbon treaty.
Shutting down Coal fired power plants might be a good idea, but you don’t get to do it for a day.
When you stop one of these suckers it takes five days or so to get them started again. A point that the anti-coal types might want to bear in mind, since if their action does result in closing down the DC power station it ain’t gonna bonce straight back up again, and if the day’s as cold as predicted and a storm does come in, the grid could be streched to breaking point.
“Preserve climate”? Should we jar it and stash it the basement, that way when the climate changes we can always have our favorite flavor near at hand?
Anthony: The following is a link to the NASA Office of the General Counsel, in which they describe Permissible and Prohibited activities. Based on that, it does not appear that Hansen is violating the Hansen Act, as viewed by the Nasa Office of the General Counsel.
http://www.nasa.gov/offices/ogc/general_law/hatch%20act.html
The only Prohibited Activities listed are, assuming Hansen fits into the “Everyone Else” Category:
Prohibited Activities for most employees
• Use official authority or influence to interfere with an election
• Solicit or discourage political activity of anyone with business before their agency
• Solicit or receive political contributions
• Be candidates for public office in partisan elections
• Engage in political activity while —
• On duty
• In a government office
• Wearing an official uniform
• Using a government vehicle
• Includes
• Wearing political buttons on duty
• Displaying campaign materials
• Government e-mail
REPLY: This one I beg to differ on “Solicit or discourage political activity of anyone with business before their agency” Greenpeace is political, the rally is political, and greens pushing for regulation of CO2 cite Hansen’s work, with NASA, even going so far as to call him an expert witness, thus making it “business before their agency”. – Anthony
Excuse the typo. That should read “it does not appear that Hansen is violating the Hatch Act.”
I just had a flashback to my college days. Back then, there was an antiwar biology professor ( he marched during Earth Day 1970, too) who would rile up certain students and instructors to go down the recriuters office or courthouse, demonstrate and chain themselves to the building. These were the people that got arrested while our so concerned antiwar prof was back at home far away enjoying his dinner. I wonder if Hansen would put himself in a position to be arrested. Quite frankly, I doubt it. Incidentally, being arrested and convicted just might get him fired.
Hansen promoting a demonstration against a coal plant will not be fired, or even reprimanded. More likely, he will be lauded for ‘taking action’.
Remember, Obama wants to bankrupt the coal industry:
/Mr Lynn
Anthony,
Probably someone has already suggested this (no time to read through so many commnents) but a counter rally should somehow be organized. I’m sure freedom-loving Americans will be there anyway.
Hansen’s has overplayed his hand-also I’d be prepared to see a BIG storm on March 2nd. Maybe Gore will show up…
Has anybody ever researched Hansen’s (including any non-arm’s lenght connexions and relationships) his vested interests in nuclear power or in any other type of energy like wind, solar, bio-whatnot?
Also, his personal pet convictions and beliefs, such as the Gaia cult, a belief that America should be returned to Nature, etc, should be investigated.
This guy is intent on destroying industrial society, and to hell with the immense suffering and misery that would ensue. Many acclaimed and elected politicians are too, just as were Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Fidel, Chavez, and many others.
Article title:
Translation:
Isn’t that about it? Hansen condones lawbreaking because he, in his superior wisdom, believes it is OK.
Stalin, Mao, Hitler and Robespierre [“Justification of the Use of Terror”] killed millions of people using the same ‘justification’ that Hansen uses both here, and in the defense, at taxpayer expense, of eco-vandals in another country.
Western societies have legitimate means to change the law — if James Hansen can convince enough people it’s necessary. But of course, Hansen can’t convince the general public to shut down coal plants, so he rabble-rouses lawbreakers to violate the law in order to get his way.
Why is this individual still employed by a democratic government??
[Hansen’s supervisor is Robert Strain at Goddard Space Flight Center: rstrain@gsfc.nasa.gov ]
Maybe we can get all the coal plants to voluntarily shut down for a day, just to show people what would happen?
You mean turn off the electric nationwide? Our government continually fails to learn from the law of unintended consequences…
Of course I’m not seriously advocating this.
Somebody would die because their medical equipment would fail, or the air traffic control system would go down. But if we could get people to imagine the consequences, maybe they’ll think twice about this issue.
In Kansas, the public schools helped students participate in public protests over new coal plants proposed for the western part of the state. Nobody volunteered to give up their MP3 players, DVD players, cell phones, computers, TVs, etc., so the new plants wouldn’t be needed. Nope. They want electricity but they don’t have any clue about where it will come from.
Your handle is almost uncannily appropriate.
I’ve been plowing through Atlas Shrugged for a couple of months (at bedtime), and now when I hear the latest proclamations from the Obama Administration, I find myself thinking, “They want electricity but they don’t have any clue about where it will come from.” Reason and reality seem to have disappeared from public discourse.
Which way to Galt’s Gulch?
/Mr Lynn
Wow,
So people are concerned about the climate!?!?!
I have never heard of this.
No wonder politicians are not paying attention. No one is talking about it.
And this Hansen guy- why, he must be some sort of really briliant scientist, and really focused on Academia, because I have never heard of him, or his concerns, before.
We in England are rapidly running short of generating capacity. When a new power station is proposed we get this sort of thing :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7906383.stm
Of course, no one protesting against the coal-fired plant would accept anything as ‘nasty’ as a nuclear powered generating plant. So just how do they think we are going to generate a dependable electricity supply?
Stephen Brown
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind…
TonyB
I think you overlooked the word ‘dependable’, which means wind does not make a good substitute for coal. Did you mean to say ‘nuclear’ instead?
The answer, my friend, is DEPENDABLE!!
Greenies do about face on nuclear
“Britain must embrace nuclear power if it is to meet its commitments on climate change, four of the country’s leading environmentalists – who spent much of their lives opposing atomic energy – warn today.
The one-time opponents of nuclear power, who include the former head of Greenpeace, have told The Independent that they have now changed their minds over atomic energy because of the urgent need to curb emissions of carbon dioxide.” “Nuclear power? Yes please.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/nuclear-power-yes-please-1629327.html
From people who know something about power generation: the American Society of Mechanical Engineers.
http://www.asme.org/NewsPublicPolicy/GovRelations/PositionStatements/Need_Additional_US_CoalFired.cfm
The Need for Additional U.S. Coal-Fired Power Plants
“XII. Conclusions
The Energy Committee of the ASME’s Council on Engineering and ASME’s Power Division strongly support the construction of new coal-fired power plants in the U.S. to meet the need for growing base-load demand, to ensure a diversity of base-load power supplies, to ease increasing reliance on natural gas to fuel power plants, and to decrease overall pollutant emissions per unit of GDP growth.
Coal is the most abundant and inexpensive fossil fuel energy resource in the U.S. for the next century and it is the only competitor for nuclear power for base-load (24/7) power generation, if oil and natural gas prices remain at or above current levels. The technology and infrastructure is proven and available.
The economic competitiveness of the nation requires low cost, reliable electric power. Fuel supply security and a desire to reduce our reliance on imported fuels suggest that it would be prudent to utilize our domestic resources of coal and uranium for the foreseeable future. Hydropower and other renewable energy sources will continue to provide niche energy applications.
New base-load electric power generating plants are needed to meet the demand for capacity growth and GDP growth – and to replace aging, inefficient plants. Clean coal technologies and more efficient energy conversion cycles are now available for use in economical and reliable coal-fired plants. This will significantly reduce overall emissions of SO2, NOx, and particulate pollution, and the emissions of CO2 per unit of GDP. In the event that global warming requires total CO2 emissions elimination, all fossil fuel combustion would be phased out for power generation and for vehicle transportation. However, persuasive evidence for this drastic step is lacking.
Additional technologies, currently in the development stage, should reduce CO2 emissions even more and the development of these technologies should be supported as a matter of public policy.
In summary, the low cost of coal, its abundance in the United States, proven technologies, and existing infrastructure, make the use of coal for power generation a strategic imperative.”
I do not think you can make the argument that what Hansen advocates puts him in the same group as Hitler, Stalin etc. I also do not think you can make the argument that increases in CO2 will have absolutely not effect on temperature and as a further consequence world climate. What is arguable is how strong the effect might be, how much it will affect temperature and over what time period.
If you don’t like what he’s saying, write the white house or your congressman or stage your own counter-protest but I would not expect much out of a political system that is being led by the nose by liberal environmentalists.
No, but similar to Ernst Moritz Arndt :”While best known in Germany for his fanatical nationalism, Arndt was also dedicated to the cause of the peasantry, which lead him to a concern for the welfare of the land itself. Historians of German environmentalism mention him as the earliest example of ‘ecological’ thinking in the modern sense. 4 His remarkable 1815 article On the Care and Conservation of Forests, written at the dawn of industrialization in Central Europe, rails against shortsighted exploitation of woodlands and soil, condemning deforestation and its economic causes. ”
See: http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/germany/sp001630/peter.html
Edward,
Hansen’s argument is that the seas are going to boil!!! Do you believe that? Can you make his argument for him?
Hansen’s argument is that mass civil disobedience is necessary to avert the End of Creation. Would you like to make that argument for him? Please do…
My argument is that Warmer is Better. Can you refute it?
If you don’t like what I’m saying, write a letter to your Congressman. See if he can do anything about it.
If I were a psychriatrist, which I am not, I could be persuaded to believe that Mr Hansen is borderline psychotic and maybe Al Gore as well. Everything to do with AGW is based upon theory, there is no proven factual evidence that Co2 at its present or supposed future level has had or will have any effect on our climate.
Typically psychosis is evident when a susceptible individual accumulates sufficient individual detail from which he or she concludes in a “Oh my God” moment of absolute dispair and jaw breaking perception that if all of this happens at the same time, we are all going to die.
Personally my feeling is that Hansen is already in denial, having espoused a theory for such a long time without any of his predictions coming to fruition his rhetoric becomes more obsessive more emotive, remember Hitler!
Ironically for a scientist who should know that computers, programs, scenarios and plain wishful thinking are the plague of our – so called – technological society and should not be trusted under any circumstances.
Our current financial crisis was driven by supposedly clever people using algorythms and then writing pages of code to cover up the fact that they didnt work so that other people could not check up on their manic behaviour which drove them to trust the computer code because the reality of what they had done was far too threatening to comprehend especially the ramifications of it, their personal standing and status being just a minor consequence, insignificant really.
In the UK we cant even get a simple database system working to manage our hospitals yet we sanction the use of computers to tell us about what will happen to our climate and we listen accutely to the muppets who still believe that computers do not lie. Microsoft have abandoned Visa because its a nonsense but Co2 will destroy the World we know its true because a computer said so, barking mad!!
David Wells
I think you are totally right. It would be interesting to invite a psychiatrist to post on the subject in WUWT.
I will preface this by saying that I’m sure Al Gore has said a lot of intelligent things in his life and probably is a straight shooter, NRO is not exactly neutral, and politicians just say a lot of things but:
The Gore Liesis disturbing and his views on global warming fit right in.
“I’m sure Al Gore has said a lot of intelligent things in his life and probably is a straight shooter…”
Well, that was certainly good for a laugh.
Albert Gore has never had a firmly held position or conviction in his entire adult life that wasnt planted by or rooted in either a polling or focus group, or didnt mirror what ever group he was speaking to at the moment.
I risk attributing Hansen with undeserved powers of insight and intelligence – but has anybody noticed his resemblance to Homer Simpson?
A reply from NASA. If all of us from this forum, register our total disapproval of Hansen’s outbursts, mayhap someone will take him aside for a little chat.
February 23, 2009
Office of Public Affairs
Dear Mr. Debell:
Thank you for your inquiry to NASA.
Mr. Hansen is entitled to his personal opinion. However, it should not be misconstrued as an official NASA position. Mr. Hanson’s views do not necessarily reflect agency policy.
Your interest in NASA and America’s space program is appreciated.
Sincerely,
Public Communications
Public Services and Protocol Division
Office of Public Affairs
——————————————————————————–
From: PERRY DEBELL
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:29 AM
To: public-inquiries@gsfc.nasa.gov
Subject: Hansen
FAO Robert Strain.
Dear Mr Strain,
I am a British subject and I resent you giving carte blanche to your inferior worker, to travel to my country and appear as an defence witness for people who are trespassing on private property. Your employee is also contravening the Hatch Act.
Federal and D.C. employees may not-
use official authority or influence to interfere with an election
solicit or discourage political activity of anyone with business before their agency
solicit or receive political contributions (may be done in certain limited situations by federal labor or other employee organizations)
be candidates for public office in partisan elections
engage in political activity while:
on duty
in a government office
wearing an official uniform
using a government vehicle
wear partisan political buttons on duty
Tell him to stop it please.
Yours truly,
Perry Debell
I have sent the following email to NASA
FAO Robert Strain.
Dear sir.
Your Dr. James Hansen appeared as a witness for the defence for a group of vandals who damaged a coal fired power station at Kingsnorth in the UK.
He used his NASA GISS position to advocate vandalism on the grounds of “saving the planet”.
You may or may not be aware that because of abdication of a positive energy policy in the UK, this power station is essential for our energy needs as we are already over-extended on base-load. Perhaps you, your agency or Dr. Hansen will be willing to compensate members of the public for any damages incurred due to the delays caused by these vandals so effectively defended by an agency employee.
Regards.
To which I got the exact same form letter reply as Perry.
“Dear Mr. E****:
Thank you for your inquiry to NASA.
Mr. Hansen is entitled to his personal opinion. However, it should not be misconstrued as an official NASA position. Mr. Hanson’s views do not necessarily reflect agency policy.
Your interest in NASA and America’s space program is appreciated.
Sincerely,
Public Communications
Public Services and Protocol Division
Office of Public Affairs”
To which I have replied.
FAO Robert Strain
Whilst I appreciate the following,
Mr. Hansen is entitled to his personal opinion. However, it should not be misconstrued as an official NASA position.
Mr. Hanson’s views do not necessarily reflect agency policy.
this does not address the problem.
Without the position held at your agency, Dr. Hansen would probably not have been listened to.
With this in mind, I suggest that he has misused his position and your agency to his own ends.
Form letters are all well and good but they do not address problems and whilst his opinions may not reflect either agency policy or even viewpoint, his actions reflect on your agency.
Your apparent unwillingness to act against an employee advocating vandalism reflects badly upon your agency and implies agreement with said acts.
Regards.
[Hansen’s supervisor is Robert Strain at Goddard Space Flight Center: rstrain@gsfc.nasa.gov ]
—– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors —–
(reason: 550 5.1.1 … User unknown)
John H.,
Mac users can click on a Mail button called “bounce to sender,” which returns the email to the sender with the phrase: “the following addresses had permanent fatal errors…”.
It enables a user to send spam back to the sender in the [forlorn] hope that the spammer will take them off the email list as undeliverable. It can also be used to avoid other unwanted emails.
Maybe Mr. Strain has a Mac, eh?
Hey, thanks for the tip! I never noticed the ‘Bounce’ command (in the Message menu of Mail.app).
/Mr Lynn
Mr. Hansen is entitled to his personal opinion. However, it should not be misconstrued as an official NASA position. Mr. Hanson’s views do not necessarily reflect agency policy.
case closed. wouldn t we all want our civil employees to take a stand on important subjects?
Voltaire said: “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
please take note hansen and obama and all the agw crowd. and the intelligent people.
This clown is definitely a wasted of extorted tax dollars…
If you want to see an over the top ad by a green group, look at the ridiculous full page ad by Conservation International on the inside cover page of the March issue of Discover magazine. It shows a set of lungs polluted by carbon as a result of deforestation of forests. The ad proceeds to have people join Team Earth and help stop climate change. Absolutely ridiculous!
Dr Hansen will be mighty pleased with NASA’s Office of Public Affairs. First, he is a Dr, not a Mr. Second, his name is spelt Hansen, not Hanson.
Am I detecting maybe a signal from NASA as to what their real views of Dr Hansen may be?
“Cut NASA funding”
is the drum to be beaten until Hansen is gone.
The only way to separate Hansen’s opinions from official NASA positions is to separate Hansen from NASA
Complaint against Hansen filed.
Those who are pathologically committed to a stable, static, climate are suffering from an environmental form of Peter Pan Syndrome.
I see a similar thing with people in the growth-control movement here in New Hampshire and Vermont. They cling to their vision of what the past was, whether colonial wilderness era, or even so recent as the era of Norman Rockwell and his sentimentalist paintings of small town new england living, and oppose any form of progress, economic growth, population growth, etc.
There is a distinct segement of the human population that is highly resistant to change. Political conservatives capitalize on this wrt social changes. Since the humanists abandoned the human race in the face of Industrial Age abuses/externalities, the left has focused on environmental change as a means of anti-capitalist/anti-technology marxism/luddism.
I think that there is an idealised vision of “Pristine Nature” that some people hold.
Unfortunately it’s an ideal only.
Also it seems to be mostly held by comfortable urban elites who have not recently or ever been bitten on the a*$e by a rampant nature red in tooth and claw.
One rule in politics is “follow the money” . It would be interesting to know if Hansen has any investments in solar, wind or other “green” energy. Perhaps he is a shill for these enterprises.
so how about on March 2 we launch a counter attack. Write and phone your congressmen, and the president and let them know that we dont have to travel to Washington and waste gas to not believe in man made climate change. Let them know that if there is no alternative energy to take the place of coal power, it stays in place till there is. No ifs ands or buts about it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
http://www.senate.gov/
http://www.house.gov/
Ironic? An apology from Britain for setting the ball rolling. Sort of.
What isn’t ironic is rain on your wedding day. That’s just rain on your wedding day.
Yet what is ironic, to me, is how this whole nonsense was given vital early momentum in Britain. How? Well thanks to our government under Margaret Thatcher, during the early to mid 1980s. A total right wing individualist sought to ensure that the coal mining industry in Britain would never hold the British government (her) to ransom again through the power of the unions. She won the battle and then £supported research to help terminally undermine the status of coal as a fuel. Of the 170 collieries in 1984, less than 10 now remain. They believed nuclear power, nationalised, would soon become a model of national power, we only had to look across the channel to France. The research they funded was to support the theory that coal-fired power stations could one day threaten the climate via a certain greenhouse gas.
So yes, for you right wingers, a bit of an own goal there eh? That’s pretty ironic. Don’t you think? He..he… but I ain’t smiling. I’m not a carbon footprint, I’m a free man who makes his position in a well-informed society. I may be left of centre, maybe just a meritocratist, but I’d sooner be in bed with strange bedfellows where provable truth and fact is concerned. So move over, comrades, and let me in.
What I am also saying here is that you guys need to cool down a bit and moderate the political ‘tax your breath’ rant. There is plenty of good scientific rope to hang this fraud Hansen with his runaway IPCC. Please don’t alienate us with your Foxaholic tendancies, there’s a more important battle to fight. Sometimes your political urges are somewhat alarmist. Then we can get back to real politics and how your theory of ‘trickle down effect economics’ is a complete corporate-enabling third person abusing sham. Deal? As for union (ab)use of power, you have no argument there from me.
Hats off to you Anthony for this truly excellent scientific site.
Dr. Tim Ball has an explanation of the neo-reality and neo-truth as evinced by neo-science and neo-economics in our neo-world of relativism. Our lives are greatly simplified by the ready access to neo-common sense, neo-logic and neo-reason. A great weight is lifted from our shoulders by the neo-standards. The neo-living is much easier.
The neo-stimulus pork and debt bill is similar to bailing-out the boat while standing in the bucket.
This neo-world was first recognized by the reknowned neo-hoax-meister, Almer Goretry, when he expressed its “truth” by remarking that everthing up, is down and everything down. is up The discovery of neo-gravity? Worthy of a Nobel Prize.
———————————————————
Truth and Reality Exiting Stage Left
The list of absolute contradictions about environment and economies gets longer every day as we drift further from logic and reason
By Dr. Tim Ball Monday, February 23, 2009
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/8712
“When we remember that we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.” Mark Twain’s comment helps me understand the absolute contradictions presented as truth, sense and reality. Consider just a short list.
Warming is causing global cooling.
The sun has virtually nothing to do with global temperature change.
Carbon dioxide, a harmless gas essential to life on Earth is labeled a toxic substance and a pollutant and must be reduced.
Rewarding failures will reduce the number of failures.
Punishing success will encourage more success.
You can have more freedom by letting the government control more of your life.
You get out of debt by going further into debt.
The best people to get you out of trouble are the ones who got you there.
C’mon now! I didn’t hear him say anything about civil disobedience, and what if he had. Calling down the Hatch Act on him?
Maybe he’s a bad scientist, and maybe he’s crossed the line from science to political advocacy, but let’s have the chips fall where they may rather than calling in the police.
Hanson get’s help from MIT: More fraudulent scientists.
From: http://heliogenic.blogspot.com/2009/02/alarming-climate-model-output-from-mit.html
February 23, 2009
Alarming climate model output from MIT
“Report: High odds of warming over 5°C (9°F) if no action.
New research from MIT scientists shows that in the absence of stringent reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, 21st century climate change may be far more significant than some previous climate assessments had indicated. …
The modeling experiments are not meant to provide precise forecasts of future temperature changes, but rather to serve as what one related MIT study calls “thought experiments” to help policymakers and the public understand how decisions regarding emissions reductions may affect the magnitude of climate change. …
To update their findings that were first unveiled in 2002, the MIT researchers used an in-house computer model …
A main conclusion is that [positive] feedbacks within the climate system … may act to increase the magnitude of climate change …
For the no policy scenario, the researchers concluded that there is now a nine percent chance (about one in 11 odds) that the global average surface temperature would increase by more than 7°C (12.6°F) by the end of this century, compared with only a less than one percent chance (one in 100 odds) that warming would be limited to below 3°C (5.4°F) .
The median warming value, with even odds of the temperature increase being above or below that value, was 5.1°C (9.2°F). For comparison, the same research group’s no policy scenario yielded a median value of just 2.4°C (4.3°F) in 2002.” “MIT Group Increases Global Warming Projections”
Let’s dissect this. Climate modeling is not “research” and it is not “experiments”. It is simply output from a computer program written by humans who have very limited knowledge of the dynamics of the Earth’s climate system. The climate models program in strong positive feedbacks and, of course, the models output strong temperature increases. In the real world the data show just the opposite, namely strong negative feedbacks.
Even assuming, as a zeroth approximation, that the net feedback is zero instead of negative, doubling atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide would yield only a very modest warming. The warming of the last century, about 0.6 deg K, was mostly due to increased solar activity since the Maunder Minimum, which coincided with the temperature minimum of the Little Ice Age about three centuries ago. Only about 0.1 deg K, tops, was due to anything else (here and IceCap, What’s New & Cool, August 28, 2008, “Is Earth still recovering from the Little Ice Age?”). This is in line with Idso’s experimental determination that climate sensitivity is only 0.1 deg K/(W/m^2), and a radiative forcing parameter of 3.3 W/m^2.
Since the CO2 increase from 280 to 380 ppmv in the last century may have resulted in only 0.1 deg K of warming, and applying the IPCC’s logarithmic equation, we obtain for a doubling of CO2 from 280 to 560 ppmv a warming of only 0.2 deg K, half of which has already occurred.
Posted by jblethen at 2/23/2009
Labels: climate models, CO2, temperature record
“In the real world the data show just the opposite, namely strong negative feedbacks.”
Really? What, for example.
A stable climate for the last billion years.
Research can be biased. Plain and simple. As a special educator, I am faced with daily decisions about research based propaganda by curriculum publishers versus independent analysis. If you EVER need a simple reminder of who to believe, take any “research based” curriculum and compare the publisher-sponsored research with independent research results. It will be an eye-opener. Schools have bought millions of dollars worth of curriculum based on publisher-sponsored research that then gets verbally repeated by Universities. Bad policy. The gold standard of any research endeavor is a double blind study. It’s the only way to replicate research. That means that the researcher blindly assigns treatment that has no published label, to one group, and assigns another treatment (or no treatment) to a control group. The subjects have no idea what they are receiving either. Thus the double blind. The researcher then looks at the results without knowing who got what until the very end. Obviously, any researcher connected to a publisher should not be allowed to study the curriculum published by the publisher he or she is connected to.
So what is Hansen connected to? Where does his salary come from? Who is funding the grants? What kind of “goody” is he getting from this grand-standing? Is this man getting his rocks off from media coverage? Or is it just the money? I think it is both. I think he like the media darling coverage just like Gore like it. I also think it is the money/grant thing. I have been in that Ivory tower and the butt-kissing that goes on for grant money would make a whore blush.
like(s). Sorry.
There is more BS from Hanson on youtube:
More action against Hanson: http://co2sceptics.com/news.php?id=2862
@ Ron de Haan (18:24:55) :
whoaaaa, nelly! Did that announcer say, “Supreme Master Television????”
!@#%#$%^ if he didn’t! …. looking it up ….
YIPES!
http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/
HANSEN ISN’T JUST WRONG, HE’S TOTALLY BONKERS!
Nice catch, RdH!
Completely off topic: click
I love the muppets as well as the next guy. Leave the man alone
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/science/earth/03nasa.html?_r=1&em&ex=1212638400&en=27f054b906a7623c&ei=5087
“Two years after Hansen and other agency employees described a pattern of distortion and suppression of climate science by political appointees, the agency’s inspector general report said “our investigation found that during the fall of 2004 through early 2006, the NASA Headquarters Office of Public Affairs managed the topic of climate change in a manner that reduced, marginalized or mischaracterized climate change science made available to the general public.”
Glad that is out in the open so that “NASA climate science” can be made freely available to the general public.
RE: What he’s not allowed to do….
Yeah, and congress isn’t supposed to conduct foreign policy independent of the president, but how many of these clowns have you seen get in trouble for that?
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/07/dem-shocker-speaker-pelosi-was-sending.html
http://www.neoperspectives.com/kerrysouthamerica.htm
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/kgb-letter-details-ted-kennedys-offer-to-help-ussr
I don’t think Hansen will suffer for it either, especially with a president who supports the kind of subversive behavior so common among the Left, because unaccountability, intimidation and treachery are among the main the tools of their trade.
It is my opinion that Dr. Hansen is not acting in the capacity of scientist nor is he using sound scientific methods. He is playing the role of activist with “science” designed to further an agenda.
I really wonder what his beef is with the coal industry. In the 1970’s he was saying that burning coal would cause us to freeze to death in an ice age. Does anyone know what his position is on nuclear energy?
The reason I ask that question is because economic expansion is directly related to energy consumption. Let’s say you produce apples. Setting 100 baskets of apples picked, packed, and sent to market and delivered to the consumer requires some amount of energy. If you want to expand production to 110 baskets of apples, it takes more energy to pick, pack, market, and deliver those apples simply because there is more product to handle and move. In that way, any expanding economy will consume more energy as it produces more.
Now there will be some gain from increases in efficiency and cutting of wasted energy, but there is a cost associated. If you spend capital in cutting waste energy but get no increase in production for it, in other words, if it costs you more to cut the waste than the saved energy cost you, your economy has shrunk. And when you begin to introduce artificial inefficiencies into the market by, for example, taxing CO2, you add overhead expense to the entire economy and get yourself into a Catch-22 situation. You can not increase production without increasing CO2 emissions and you can not increase CO2 emissions without incurring additional overhead. What is proposed as an “environmental” tax is actually a tax on economic expansion. It basically forces the economy into a state of contraction and in this case it is for payment for something that is quite unnecessary.
This pseudo-science that Hansen and his ilk have been pushing have people actually believing that CO2 is harmful in some way. My kids are being taught this in school. But the bottom line is that it is a direct brake applied to the economy of the US and any other country who decides to adopt CO2 reduction strategies. Who benefits? The countries that are not bound by any such restrictions. It is a massive, global, “redistribution of wealth” that allows some economies to expand unhampered while putting the brakes on other economies through the creation of the CO2 bogeyman.
FWIW, I’ve started a wordpress blog to, among other things, “Deconstruct GIStemp”.
It’s at:
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/
And I’ve put up a first entry that gives pointers to where you can download the GIStemp code, get the data files, and take a look at the “directions”.
From here on out I will be putting my GIStemp comments there and leaving pointers here if I discover anything interesting in Hansen’s code.
Very good – can you link to it so people can get there by clicking on your name?
I bookmarked it, but that link would be more convenient.
GOOGLE of — “james hansen” supreme master television — gives 8,210 hits.
http://suprememastertelevision.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=sos&sca=sos_3&wr_id=664
“Dr. Rajendra Pachauri – The chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)” is featured in their propaganda, as well…
http://suprememastertv.com/blog/2008/09/dr-rajendra-pachaurichief-of-un-ipcc-on.html
http://suprememastertv.com/climate-change-solution/
“Dr. James Hansen:Leader of Climate Change Science for Wise Action”
http://revver.com/video/946807/dr-james-hansenleader-of-climate-change-science-for-wise-action/
Leader of … an organization I can’t find in Google? So, is it an otherwise “secret” society? and how much time does he spend doing this when he’s on the taxpayer’s dime, anyway? No wonder they don’t have time to do the proper QC on their data and equipment.
Seems he may be a cult member, and only heavy de-programing may be needed to bring him back, if he hasn’t gone over the event horizon.
LOL – Hansen’s going to need this when his theories are debunked and he’s in the political and scientific doghouse…
http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/doggie/
must have been something I said? Ok, I’ll change the title…
OH $#@&!
GOOGLE of — “james hansen” supreme master television — gives 8,210 hits.
http://suprememastertelevision.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=sos&sca=sos_3&wr_id=664
“Dr. Rajendra Pachauri – The chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)” is featured in their propaganda, as well…
http://suprememastertv.com/blog/2008/09/dr-rajendra-pachaurichief-of-un-ipcc-on.html
http://suprememastertv.com/climate-change-solution/
“Dr. James Hansen:Leader of Climate Change Science for Wise Action”
http://revver.com/video/946807/dr-james-hansenleader-of-climate-change-science-for-wise-action/
Leader of … an organization I can’t find in Google? So, is it an otherwise “secret” society? and how much time does he spend doing this when he’s on the taxpayer’s dime, anyway? No wonder they don’t have time to do the proper QC on their data and equipment.
If he were a member of that cult, that might explain his behavior? “Yes, supreme master, your wish is my command.”
LOL – Hansen’s going to need this when his theories are debunked and he’s in the political and scientific doghouse…
http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/doggie/
Hmmm, all those fruitcake links probably got the spam filter all excited.
GOOGLE of — “james hansen” supreme master television — gives 8,210 hits.
http://suprememastertelevision.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=sos&sca=sos_3&wr_id=664
“Dr. Rajendra Pachauri – The chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)” is featured in their propaganda, as well…
(links deleted to appease supreme master spam filter)
“Dr. James Hansen:Leader of Climate Change Science for Wise Action”
http://revver.com/video/946807/dr-james-hansenleader-of-climate-change-science-for-wise-action/
Leader of … an organization I can’t find in Google? So, is it an otherwise “secret” society? ..or a made up name to con viewers of these videos? But if it is a real organization, how much time does he spend running it when he’s on the taxpayer’s dime, anyway? No wonder they don’t have time to do the proper QC on their data and equipment.
If he were a member of that cult, that might explain his behavior? “Yes, supreme master, your wish is my command.”
LOL – Hansen’s going to need this when his theories are debunked and he’s in the political and scientific doghouse…
http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/doggie/
Why cant you Americans get your house in order.
You go to war on the basis of evidence that didnt exist
Then you you create a world wide financial calamity by lending money to people who have no income, no job, and non security. How bright is that.
Now you want to stop the use of all coal based power stations on the basis of evidence from a fraud who cant even run his publically funded organisation in a competent manner.Pretty dumb managment here
Which if he is successful would cause even greater damage to your already stuffed up economy.Can it be any worse.
But he is allowed to engage in activities that contravene your own laws.I give up.
America is going down the gurgler faster than a co2 molecule on heat.
Malcolm Hill, some of your accusations are correct, and some are totally out to lunch. If you were a Brit, or a citizen of just about any EU country, I could default to the old saw “people who live in glass houses…” But the fact is that you are preaching to the choir here. On the items that you are right about, we agree, and we conservatives are speaking out as best we can against the madness. Now, wherever you live, I’m sure your problems are at least as bad as ours, so go and try to fix up your own house. And if it’s all fine and dandy, then go preach to the American Leftists who brought the worst of this on us, because if it hasn’t reached you yet, it will.
We had more evidence of Saddam Hussien possessing WMD’s than we currently do for AGW. That Hussein had at one time had WMD’s is undeniable, he’s used them. Besides that point, WMD’s werent the sole reason for invading Iraq in the first place.
The other points you raise stem from the same type of ideological sickness (socialism) that also consumes Europe including your country. Maybe you should follow your own advice and quit blaming the US for all your woes.
The difficulty for us over here is the huge democratic deficit which means we have no real say in what the insane megalomaniacs in the EU do. At least you were able to vote for your insane megalomaniacs.
He is a political scientist. Read Atlas Shrugged looking at Dr. Stadler.
A core issue is the discredit he brings to other hard working scientists at many other government agencies.
When Hansen is proven wrong, politicians like Gore, will in turn blame Hansen for misleading them, then walk away form the issue.
A core issue is the role of government scientists and policy. Is the USA government properly preparing for alternative climate scenarios, or are they “betting the bank” on warming. What if they are wrong? Are we prepared for cooling, food shortages, energy shortages? Do we really want to be eliminating coal power plants if we might enter a period of extended cooling?
I think the bottom line is that nuclear will prevail. It is the only reasonable solution that will not wreck the US economy.
Obama seemed smart and politically aware. 80% divided by 40 years is 2% reduction per year, which will be noticeable only in the pockets of those playing the carbon credit bubble. Lets hope that he does go full speed ahead on nuclear, and then disaster will be averted, if the volatile climate starts heating up again.
Or if we get two more years like the last two, the case will be closed without too much damage to the economy.
You’re assuming a 2% decline of current levels each year.in that 40th year, it maps into a 10% decline of the 2049 level.
Top of the head calculation for a long term rate is call it a couple halvings in 36 years, one halving in 18, rule of 72 says 6% year over year.
Not so easy!
Thanks – might be a pair of useful factoids for me this weekend.
Hasitbeen4yearsyet
The war on Iraq and the subprime mortage crisis are peculiarly American in origin, but global in impact. So reference to people living in glass houses is bit rich.
We are preoccupied in making sure that the damages caused by the collective failures of the USA political and financial systems are minimised. Any problems others have after that are minor.
I would much prefer to see American stay on top, but it looks like it is not going to be case for the foreseable future. I mean if you dont even have the balls to rein Hansen in, what hope is there. He cant do the job he is paid to do properly but he can engage in external lobbying. What a joke.
Of course the EPA declaring Co2 a pollutant wont ensure that the Gore Brigade get fatter and richer – oh no– that wont happen, pigs.
There is bugger all that we can do, that would affect the USA in the same way the failures and incompetence in the USA have affected others, with or without the leftists as you call them.
I think we are in a glass house.
I know people on state benefits who got mortgages.
Granted, our sub-prime mortgages won’t affect the rest of the world, but they are/were there.
Similarly, credit card companies were/are lending to people who simply couldn’t/can’t afford these debts.
Credit has gone mad here too.
DaveE.
Sigh. Apparently it isn’t enough the AGW proponents have helped create the worst recession in a generation and destroyed the auto industry. Now they want us to all be cold and in the dark too.
BTW, the Europeans have a worse lending crisis than we do. Half of Poland’s mortgages are in Swiss francs, and the zloty has dropped by half.
Worst than Poland situation is the unending and continuous lending process which are the “stimulus bills”, there is no “greenhouse effect” here either, instead a “cooling process”. Everything follows the same laws, going up and down.
CO2 absorbs only a small % of IR in three limited narrow wavebands. The wavelengths corresponding to these bands are also filtered out in a relatively short distance. Doubling CO2 to 7oo ppm would therefore absorb no more IR and would not cause atmospheric warming.
The air volumetric heat capacity is 3,277 times less than that of water. You won´t use a bottle filled with air to heat your feet in your bed, nobody ever used one, a bottle filled with water is used instead.
OT but I don’t know where else to post. But here is a doozy:
“Lower increases in global temps could lead to greater impacts than previously thought, study finds”
see http://www.physorg.com/news154632699.html
A lead author, Stephen H. Schneider, Stanford University professor of biology and interdisciplinary environmental studies and Senior Fellow at the Woods Institute for the Environment,
Says it all.
DaveE.
The problem for Realists is not the fields of expertise, but the institutional clout of the authors:
The IPCC
The National Academy of Sciences (in their )
Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School
Stanford University
The Woods Institute for the Environment
Stratus Consulting
All intimately identified with the governmental, academic, and bureaucratic elites who have embraced the ‘scientific consensus’ of AGW. The bigger the institutional imprimateur, the more the media swoon over proclamations, pronouncements, and ‘official’ alarms, like this one.
What Realists need are many more establishment figures to break with the Alarmists and speak out—loudly and soon, to the point where they cannot be ignored. There may well be a ‘tipping point’—not a climactic one, but a political one, after which the rush to stop the engine of American progress will be unstoppable.
/Mr Lynn
From the link provided by jack mosevich:
According to physorg, less global warming will cause greater global warming. Comedy gold.
It’s a highly sensitive environment….
So easily perturbed. The slightest nudge in any direction will send the environment catastrophically spiralling out of control towards a nightmare state.
Why it hasn’t spun out of control in the last 500 Million + years is just not answered.
I think the protest at the Coal Power Plant in Washington should be supprised by a counter demonstration.
Spread the word via all the pro CO2 blogs, call the oil and coal industry, the cement industry, the construction industry, the car industry, the aviation industry, the meat industry, the farmers and the unions.
In Poland the miners kicked ass of Greenpeace protesters who want to kill coal and they are right. The climate madness and the Government plans will cost a lot of jobs
and raise the price for energy.
It is time to organize and hit the street.
Better surprise Hanson and start with mobilizing the coal industry.
jeez (02:10:11) :
“A stable climate for the last billion years.”
On the very long-term time scale, weathering of rocks removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere (locking away the CO2 as carbonates that are deposited in ocean basins) and acts as a negative feedback to the slow build up of CO2 from volcanoes. But that is no help in preventing to our present large scale increase in CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere since the rate of weathering is far too slow.
On shorter time scales the climate has been anything but stable, as a short perusal of ice cores stretching back for the last 800,000 years or so attests. These reveal violent convulsions in climate that would, if they occurred in the near future, impact severely on our ability to survive. The last interglacial, the Eemian, for example, experienced temperatures probably only slightly above present temperatures with resulting sea-levels 4-6 metres higher than at present. That last factor alone, irrespective of direct climatic effects, would cause huge disruption and dislocation of civilisation.
The 10,000 years of the Holocene, that has seen the evolution of agriculture and human civilisation, have been unusually climatically stable. It is that relative climatic stability that we put in severe jeopardy by failing to heed the warnings that scientists such as Hansen are, with increasing urgency, impressing upon us.
Oh yeah, that has me rolling on the floor laughing!
So, you’re suggesting that “scientists such as Hansen”, with their “increasing urgency”, are doing us all a favor! AWESOME!
I see it a different way. I see “hippy generation” boomers “such as Hansen” doing their best to destroy our current civilization, by demanding that we dismantle technology and live as our ancestors did. That would include a life expectancy of 30 years or so, but hey, we have to bring down our population somehow.
Hansen et al are nothing more than aging hippies, using their little bully platforms to push their 60s drug-culture idealistic communistic agenda. Sign, sign, everywhere a sign, do this don’t do that, can’t you read the sign?
Really funny!..and their inheritors the “playstation” and “x-box” boomers foretelling the future with their “climate models”
Uh, no. The climate has not gone into a “run away” state in a billion years despite the current penchant for believing in positive feedbacks, and despite C02 levels 10 times higher than today. Ice ages, warm periods, all have occurred within a narrow range that allows life to survive. It is the regulating affects of water and the biosphere that are likely responsible, despite varying TSI over long periods (not currently).
BTW, a 4 to 6 meter change in sea level over thousands or even hundreds of years would not be particularly disruptive to civilization. People have the ability to move. Life is change.
I think the time is ripe for blame shifting. Often times, the current troubles are assigned to those we don’t like or agree with. Terrible backlash events have happened in our human history when this happens. And it always seems to happen. It’s like we revert to our toddlerhood and blame the broken cookie jar on just about anything. Some folks here are now doing that. The downturn in our economy cannot be assigned with a straight face to greenies. As much as we dislike them. Neither can the problems with banks or car manufacturers. Come on folks, if we can discuss weather and climate from a reasoned and scientific basis, we can also do that with the economy.
“The downturn in our economy cannot be assigned with a straight face to greenies.”
No, but it CAN be blamed on the Leftist Democrats. And, since they and the hysterical greenies are in bed together, and the Dems ihave both the power and desire to impose the lunatic loser psuedo-green policies on on us, who else’s fault would/will it be? (and, yes, “Conservatives” who don’t stand up to them, or worse side with them, are also at fault).
Face it. Greenie policies stifle the economy, and no we can’t talk about them rationally because those who caused the problem and who stand in the way of fixing it and who want to destroy what they’ve already screwed up don’t want to. They aren’t a part of a rational discussion, because they refuse to be rational.
You can’t reason with cult followers, which it appears Jim Hansen may be. I mean, what part of his relationship with good buddy “Supreme Master” Ching Hai doesn’t scare you?
http://suprememastertv.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=featured&wr_id=215&goto_url=
And if little Jimmy Hansen doesn’t scare you, maybe a “Benevolent Messages from Mars: ‘Be Virtuous& Save the Earth’.” will…?
http://suprememastertv.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=featured&wr_id=237&goto_url=&url=link2_0
riiiiiiight!
Remember that the Nazis were big on cults, Thule society being one, and sociopaths like Mad madame Blavatzki led the way philosophically. After all, you can’t have a cult movement without some philosophical glue to hold the mess together.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/NAZIOCCU.TXT
Dismiss the connection if you will, but you may come to wish you hadn’t.
I emailed the public relations hack and they responded that Dr. Hansen is entitled to his personal opinions which is true. What is not true is that he presents them as personal.
See my reply to their form email reply above.
DaveE.
There is a dress code for the demonstration. Sort of.
First they say:
“We will be there in our dress clothes, and ask the same of you.”
But then when you click the “dress clothes” link it says:
“Dress how you like – it doesn’t need to be a business suit. Folks from different cultures have different ways of “dressing up” – feel free to do what feels right.”
Talk about mixed messages!
This “protest” is mostly symbolic. To some extent, the goal is to garner some media attention, plus they are trying drum up support for their failing cause, and to “rally the troops”. Incredibly, and with great hubris, they seem to be modeling themselves after the civil rights movement. They “know” they are on the side of good, since they are “saving our planet”.
I have no doubt that the “protest” will be peaceful. Both sides will know the drill. When arrested, protesters are instructed to go limp, thus offering no resistance, but also making the police have to work for those arrests. The arrested ones will be considered “heroes” and “martyrs” for the cause. If only they knew What foolish, misguided hypocrites they are instead.
DaveE
“Granted, our sub-prime mortgages won’t affect the rest of the world, but they are/were there.”
Thats not true. Because of the way the sub primes were packaged up and sold down the line to apportion off the risk,most of the banking systems of the world were tainted.
“Thats not true. Because of the way the sub primes were packaged up and sold down the line to apportion off the risk,most of the banking systems of the world were tainted.”
Exactly what I said. “Granted, our sub-prime mortgages won’t affect the rest of the world”
DaveE.
“EAT BEANS OR DIE!”
http://suprememastertv.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=sos_video&sca=sosv_4
There is no sane discourse with madmen.
The little redhead slowly backs out of the thread without further ado or poking of the bear, leaving the heaving mass to discuss the “leftist world domination agenda” and the destruction of all civilization, to join the AWG group who are discussing the “conservative world domination agenda and impending destruction of all civilization”.
http://motls.blogspot.com/2009/02/supreme-master-presents-james-hansen.html
[snip]
I was afraid that might have been a bit over the line.
Ok, how about just posting this,…
http://unjobs.org/authors/the-supreme-master-ching-hai
….and asking, “Why is this Ching Hai so seemingly intimate with the UN?” …or am I misreading the fact that she has so much material on a UN website dedicated to UN-related employment?
Robert Bateman (22:27:46) :
I thought the same thing the traffic lights should be on a different system.
but when one goes it all goes.
I am outraged that a publicly funded administrative authority uses his position to promote his own agenda. Would it help if we all write our legislators demanding his resignation or firing?
@Mark Hugoson (07:41:09) :
It’s in here…
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Falsification_of_CO2.pdf
I also contacted NASA at this address public-inquiries@gsfc.nasa.gov and asked if they are aware of what James Hansen being on the featured on the front page of Greenpeace’s web site helping to organize a protest could be doing to their reputation.
Dr. Hansen’s supervisor, Robert S. Strain has the following E-mail address:
Robert.D.Strain@nasa.gov
An alternate E-mail address for Hansen is:
James.E.Hansen@nasa.gov
(Some years ago, NASA decided that all of their government employees would have only an E-mail address ending in @nasa.gov. Contractors may still use an E-mail address that includes the initials of the particular center at which they work.)
Pam Gray’s mockery, (17:43:27), of concern over the likes of Dr. Hansen is misplaced…
Revealing the Bolshevik red that can always be found beneath the green facade of environmental fanaticism, Hansen is now calling for the arrest of oil company CEOs.
Their crime: providing the energy required for modern civilization to function. The charges are to be something along the lines of “high crimes against humanity and nature.” Specifically, they are accused of spreading doubt about the global warming hoax.
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/06/hoax_whore_jame.html
Gee, maybe Pam is right, I mean why should I be concerned? After all, they are only targeting the “climate criminals” after all. If I just shut up and play ball, maybe they’ll let me have some rice to go with my beans.
Malcolm Hill (21:44:55) : Why cant you Americans get your house in order. […] But he is allowed to engage in activities that contravene your own laws. I give up. America is going down the gurgler faster than a co2 molecule on heat.
We were a Republic. We are now a Democracy.
IMHO, it stems from the change of our constitution such that the Senate was elected rather than a representative of the state (i.e. each state appointed their senators). At that point (and with the addition of an elected president) we came to be very much more a direct democracy and much less a republic and eliminated the protections of states rights. And as even the ancient Greeks found out:
“No democracy long survives once the populace finds that they can vote for themselves the largess of the public purse”.
That’s a paraphrase because I’m too tired to look up the correct quote right now… but it is truth.
We are now a socialist democratic system and political favor is what matters. We will learn the hard way that democracy fails and socialism fails spectacularly (that is how it is always learned). It will take about 50 years. 25 if we’re really lucky. Until then expect lots of ‘largess’ to be spread around… at least until the banks fail… Oh, wait, they already did that…
The bottom line is that AlGore style machinations and getting the government to mandate that folks must buy your product will be the way to make money. Honest work will be less valuable. The economy will slowly strangle. (There’s a reason Economics is called “The Dismal Science”.)
The CO2 tax will be a big part of it.
A couple of historic quotes:
James Madison warned: ‘Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.’
Alexander F. Tyler stated: ‘A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the treasury with the result that democracies always collapse over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship.’
Al Gore must be going the March 2nd demonstration in DC. Check out the weather outlook:
http://www.weather.com/newscenter/stormwatch/?from=hp_news
– Cliff
Anthony, thanks for posting the information about the Hatch Act. It should be clear that none of Hansen’s behavior – in expressing his own views as a citizen on matters that he has every right to be interested in – runs afoul of that law.
Shame on those who want to use the power of government to stifle his Constitutional rights of free expression and assembly. Are you one of them?
Nope, he got to do and say anything he wanted today:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/02/jim-hansens-newfound-peers-at-the-capitol-climate-action/
Thanks for the clarification, Anthony – for a moment I thought you were trying to suggest that scientists employed by government who attempt to exercise their rights as citizens were somehow criminals or, if not, are somehow to be condemed for having the nerve to comment on matters of public interest.
Glad to hear it ain’t so.
But it seems like you confused a few there, though; maybe it was suggestion that people might want to write to Hansen’s superviser and others at NASA, and offering a couple of email addresses, that through people off.
He’s back…
Leading climate scientist: ‘democratic process isn’t working’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/18/nasa-climate-change-james-hansen
Protest and direct action could be the only way to tackle soaring carbon emissions, a leading climate scientist has said.
James Hansen, a climate modeller with Nasa, told the Guardian today that corporate lobbying has undermined democratic attempts to curb carbon pollution. “The democratic process doesn’t quite seem to be working,” he said.
Speaking on the eve of joining a protest against the headquarters of power firm E.ON in Coventry, Hansen said: “The first action that people should take is to use the democratic process. What is frustrating people, me included, is that democratic action affects elections but what we get then from political leaders is greenwash.
“The democratic process is supposed to be one person one vote, but it turns out that money is talking louder than the votes. So, I’m not surprised that people are getting frustrated. I think that peaceful demonstration is not out of order, because we’re running out of time.”
Hansen said he was taking part in the Coventry demonstration tomorrow because he wants a worldwide moratorium on new coal power stations. E.ON wants to build such a station at Kingsnorth in Kent, an application that energy and the climate change minister Ed Miliband recently delayed. “I think that peaceful actions that attempt to draw society’s attention to the issue are not inappropriate,” Hansen said.