Snow blankets London for Global Warming debate – first October Snow in over 70 years

Timing is everything…

Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it snow!
I just love the irony!

A once proud country humbled and on their knees to AGW. Even with deeper snow and cold the religion will be believed.

I hope Evan is right.
With a bit of luck the UK public will decide it’s all too hard and start preparing for the (coal…) cold.
Building a few coal power stations will not only keep the UK warm in the upcoming harsh winters – but also provide energy security!

And when the River Thames freezes over, it will doubtless still be considered an anomalous event caused by climate change.
Leave it to the Europeans to keep embracing the Precautionary Principle. It truly ought to be named the Sabot Principle, since its real aim is to end change and innovation and sabotage industrial health. For this to be a true principle, it ought to apply to all substances. So, if sufficient quantities of dihydrogen monoxide were to be administered to lab mice, the way other substances are tested, and the mice then die, then the intake and consumption of dihydrogen monoxide ought to be banned. So much for the soundness of this absurd ‘principle’. Since the depths to which politicians can sink in their effort to take care of us poor dumb peasants knows no limit, I’ll not be surprised to one day see a health label on water bottles warning of excess consumption of the product.
Of course, most politicians that pass such silly measures as was cited in the article will probably not be in office in the coming decades. All it will do is damage industry today while having little effect on emissions. Looks like the only people being fooled by their charade are the politicians themselves. But then, this is nothing new nor unique to the UK.

ZaNuLabour leaders are probably looking forward to the deaths of thousands of UK pensioners as a way of avoiding paying old age state pensions and balancing their books. The MSM will be useless and in the spring, the totalitarians will claim their prudent handling of the UK economy is showing results. Allegedly.
As portrayed in a TV series. “You may say that. I couldn’t possibly comment.

Pensioners in the UK will die of cold because they can’t afford heating costs.
I am beginning to suspect this is deliberate. It will reduce pressure on
pension funds and the NHS and free up much needed housing.

We have our own homegrown idiots in Australia. Penny Wong and Kevin Rudd announced today the we to will have a “Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme”. It will be introduced in 2010 and will cost every citizen $1.00/day when it starts.
Notice the change in words from CO2 to carbon.
The whole population of Australia accounts for 1.2% of the worlds CO2 output and if we produce absolutely no CO2 China will make enough CO2 to replace our annual output in just two weeks. To reduce it to the levels expected in the green paper will take China just two days to replace our annual output.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24576357-952,00.html
And here is the green paper on this idiotic scheme.
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/greenpaper/factsheets/fs1.html

The Gore Effect!
Yesterday evening they showed “An inconvenient thruth” for the first time in german-speaking Free-TV.
Effect: This morning I wake up and look out of the window: Everything covered with snow!
I live in Zurich.
http://www.blick.ch

Didn’t get this in my last post.
http://www.iceagenow.com/2008_Other_Parts_of_the_World.htm

In 204-05 (I recall) the UK had a measure of “excess winter death” of 34000. 34000 died in the winter above what could be expected (this is on the Office of National Statistics Website). I hate to think what will happen this year, especially with fuel price increases.

A lot of the usual bru ha ha and conspiracy theorising from people who, it seems, don’t know the difference between weather and climate (or, more likely, choose not to know for propaganda purposes).
I’m from the UK. The weather is indeed cold atm, and may stay so for several days – I see no need to deny that reality. But, so far this year temperatures have averaged out above average, and we’ve seen several of the warmest years on record in the past ten – that’s another reality I don’t deny.

Fascinating!
The British parliament should instead of passing a bill on how to combat a hypothetical global temperature increase of 2 C during the next century, set up plan how to adapt to the real possibility of a global temperature drop of 2C during the next decade.

Obviously I’ve underestimated the bureaucrats’ potential for folly.
How naive of me.
I always thought just another 0.5°C more cooling, and pols would drop the AGW nonsense like a hot potato.
Now it looks as if it will take another 1 or 2°C, i.e. a LIA, before these government dimwits wake up.
So never underestimate the potential for blithering absurdity by government.

Over ingestion of Dihydrogen Monoxide kills faster than lead, radiation, asbestos, cancer, mercury, in fact just about most things, let’s get the wretched stuff banned for ever.
As to deliberate killings, this of course is nothing new historically although I would refrain from suggesting the current incumbent in Buck House is guilty. After the Spanish Armada was defeated by stout seamanship, skilled gunnery, better local knowledge, & bad weather used to advantage, the English fleet was left anchored at sea for months on the grounds that another “threat” could come at ant time. However, the Crown had to pay the seaman but only when they had done their “duty”, & keeping them at sea doing their “duty”, they wouldn’t be paid. More men died from sickness & disease as a direct result of this action, than were killed by Spanish canon! The “Crown” saved a fortune, so no news there then.
This country is just about washed up now, no other nation seems to be as bothered about CC/AGW. Unless the people can elect a decent opposition which does not have a AGW bent or fixation, then we’re done for. Law & order is in chaos, with AGWers allowed to break it at liberty without fear of legal redress, just because they alone have a God given right to save the planet! Sadly it will be the poor, elderly, & needy who will suffer, not the middle-class intellectual elitists who perpetuate this rubbish.
Stand firm America, but brace yourselves for some tough (dare I say ridiculous) times.
It is truly amazing how scientific fact gets in the way of pseudo science, & is then used as evidence to support the pseudo science! It rather reminds one of The Life of Brian, when the crowd, clearly looking for some direction & leadership, start following Brian around, claiming everything & anything is a “sign”. Sadly, this little comedy run will not end so amusingly I fear.
AtB
PS Last night’s repeat of Top Gear was wonderful – when they took a modified Toyota pick-up to the north pole rifle & all + a trained marksman to keep the PB’s at bay in 2007, summertime, you know when all the ice melted like never before, they got there in the end despite the horrendously difficult terrain. My goodness it looked a very beautiful, but very, very, very, cold & forbidding place! Curiously they didn’t see one British canoeist or sailor on the way.

Peter Hearnden (01:22:24) : ” … and we’ve seen several of the warmest years on record in the past ten…”
you may want to check those records carefully before spouting “… the usual bru ha ha and conspiracy theorising…”

You are so missing the point. This isn’t England, it’s Camelot and these area our aims:
It’s true! It’s true! The crown has made it clear.
The climate must be perfect all the year.
A law was made a distant moon ago here:
July and August cannot be too hot.
And there’s a legal limit to the snow here
In Camelot.
The winter is forbidden till December
And exits March the second on the dot.
By order, summer lingers through September
In Camelot.
Camelot! Camelot!
I know it sounds a bit bizarre,
But in Camelot, Camelot
That’s how conditions are.
The rain may never fall till after sundown.
By eight, the morning fog must disappear.
In short, there’s simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot.
Camelot! Camelot!
I know it gives a person pause,
But in Camelot, Camelot
Those are the legal laws.
The snow may never slush upon the hillside.
By nine p.m. the moonlight must appear.
In short, there’s simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot.

massive snow in swiss alpes
over 50 cm at 1000m locally (and over 1 m at 2000m)
http://www.wzforum.de/forum2/read.php?8,1448508
..sweet..

Per Strandberg (02:05:43) : said
“The British parliament should instead of passing a bill…..set up plan how to adapt to the real possibility of a global temperature drop of 2C during the next decade”
It dawns on me that, in fact, a lot of the technology, infrastructure, insulation, fuel efficiency etc is what you need to make the most of energy reserves during the next “LIA”.
All you have to do is drop the taxation aspect….Oh! Silly me, I knew there would be a catch!

Extremely early and massive snow in northern Spain!
Madrd has 5 degrees C.
Danish news:
http://vejret.tv2.dk/nyt/article.php/id-17381788.html

Perhaps the Gulf Stream is shutting down due to too much fresh water being injected from the Arctic ice melt over the last two years. That would certainly change the weather in the UK(I am waiting with steamy breath to hear that). Or perhaps it’s just ol’ Mother Earth acting the way it has been for millions of years (Not holding my breath to hear that one). Right about now, with the colder air in SW Florida, I could use a whole lot of warming. I think I’ll go out and chop down some trees and burn them.

We have absolute idiots in our Houses of Parliament. They voted some 463 – 3 in favour of reducing by 80% the manmade CO2 output of the UK by 2050!
We are being led by morons. The only good thing is we don’t have to vote for McCain or Obama – someone has to brainwash all of them into realising that CO2 is not a poison!
I never thought I would live in a time when people were stupider than the Flat Earthers, Witchfinders and the Fools Golders!

I look forward to the Nov. numbers to come out……

People who have been in government for a long time begin to think of their fellow legislators as their peer-group, rather than their constituents. They spend their days with other members of government, and party and dine and get their daily socializing in with those peers rather than with their constituents. They become an echo chamber, echoing the opinions they hear from other legislators as outside voices, even from the people they serve, become harder for them to hear.
They’ve stopped thinking of themselves as representatives, and started believing themselves to be leaders. So when there is a sea-change among their constituents, they will usually miss it.
Thank goodness for democracies, which eventually self-correct. When election time comes, and its time for these dear leaders to finally turn around and address the concerns of their “followers” only to find that nobody is behind them anymore, it can come as a bit of a shock.
Hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later, although with US elections in just a few days, it looks like its going to be “later” for us since the tide has not yet turned in regard to AGW legislation efforts, and everyone is still singing the same tune.

‘Or since the folks at Accuweather are GW Alarmists….’
A very innacurate comment.
You don’t read Joe Bastardi, do you?

29 F in Tallahassee, FL yesterday, an all-time record low for the month of October.

the Swiss lowlands received the most snow for any October since records began. Zurich received 20cm, beating a record of 14cm set in 1939
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/travel/Record_snow_storm_triggers_delays.html?siteSect=414&sid=9908046&cKey=1225359314000&ty=nd

It is an episode
we’ re in for another mild winter in western europe Metoffice says.
Anyway there could be same interesting cold snap along the way from now to March

JamesF (00:02:42) : The UK is about to embark on a huge nuclear power station construction programme. With such high GHG reduction targets, the greenies won’t be able to stop it. Could this be part of the strategy?
Only by accident!

Though Peter Hearnden makes a valid point about weather versus climate, he might also have the grace to notice that colder than normal makes us suffer a lot more than hotter than normal. As far as I can see, most Brits actually want to leave Britain and settle in France, Spain, Cyprus etc to get some more warmth. I saw a house nameplate in Calahonda from a resettled Scot which read “Dun Shivrin”. That for me really sums up an important issue; ie while we might all accept that a lot of overall warming might be dangerous, a little warming would probably be beneficial. Alas it might not even be warmer at all in the future. In any event, we do have this remarkable capability of moving around to find a climate which suits us.

Alaska may well be headed for the coldest October on record. Average highs in Fairbanks are running close to where the low temperatures are supposed to be.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/PAFA/2008/10/30/MonthlyHistory.html
The always honest and reliable MSM was flooded last week with stories about how Arctic autumn temperatures are the “highest on record.”

This reminds me of the version of Gladiator made in the 70s, in which Commodus says he can hear the gods laughing. I think I can too! By the way, few will ever tell you that the reason Parliament is even considering such economic suicide is because of estalished EU laws and practices on emissions. Thus, while the UK can go further than EU legislation, it cannot go backwards. That is to say, while Parliament can pass laws that are stricter than established EU laws and EU Commission regulations, it cannot say “bollux” to the whole thing and throw emissions regulations out the windows of those once hallowed halls of Parliament as the bad idea that it is. It is true that due to the financial disaster Germany, France, and others are backing off emissions, but that is only for the present. The oddest thing about the British situation in the EU is that they are routinely overridden in Council votes, and pretty much ignored otherwise, yet they do their darndest to carry out the wishes – even further than most – of their masters in Brussels. And that, make no mistake about it, is where England is ruled from, not London. London is now the equivalent of Richmond, Va or Sacramento, Ca. A big city, no doubt, but merely provincial in effect. Even if they thought emissions regulation a completely bad idea, they cannot say NO! to any legislation passed by the EU itself. They must comply. Resistance, in this case and with this blinded Parliament, is indeed futile.

“all these scientists are plain idiots and all the politicians are much more stupid than you are”
Where is the irony?

Just an Aussie absolutely besotted with MLB and the WS. If this AGW keeps going ahead, then any future WS game in the North will need the players to be dressed in snow suits, if the PHI games are an indication! How good would four games in Cleveland be, if this year is an example? Regards to all on the thread – stay civil.

As long as they remain in office, the politicians are anything but idiots. They’re extremely successful at getting what they want – power and control. The only facts or truth that matter are the ones that support their tenure. They’re just as happy ruling the stupid as they are ruling the intelligent – just so long as they rule. There’s the key – remove enough of them from their positions and the behavior of the rest will change fast.

Also, you will note the global aspects of the alleged climate change. It is not by accident that these are always brought up. It is also not by accident that the US is part of the OECD (another international redistributionist bureaucracy we – the American people, I mean – got suckered into joining, much like the UN), nor is it by accident that we are a part of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR), waiting only upon the Senate’s consent to get it ratified. If Obama becomes president and the Democrats control the Congress, you can bet that will be passed rather quietly. But, among the “rights” it alleges to give ALL OF HUMANITY, being as it falls under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is the following: labor rights, social security, health care, education, an adequate standard of living, and more. Many of these are laudable aims, moral and ethical it might even be said. But do they rise to the height of being within the Rights of all Mankind? And whom do they figure can properly fulfill not only all these rights but also our alleged obligations to cool down planet Earth? A global government, of course, which will operate in the rarified air and in the shadows, still allowing us the practice of being an independent nation while ever more enslaving us with new “rights” passed through international treaties such as this. Soon enough we too will be just a province instead of a nation, just like our good cousins in Britain.

And Northern Ireland had the lowest temperatures in over 70 years:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7696286.stm

The UK is about to embark on a huge nuclear power station construction programme. With such high GHG reduction targets, the greenies won’t be able to stop it. Could this be part of the strategy?

Which the envirowhackos will try to block or sabotage, to aid in the slide towards de-industrialization, as is their desire:
“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialised civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” — Maurice Strong, head of the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro and Executive Officer for Reform in the Office of the Secretary General of the United Nations.

Flanagan, The only “proof” for AGW comes from modeling. There is no hot spot. The Anarctic has gained ice. There is No “objective” proof the very recent warming is from AGW. The recent trend over the last 7-10yrs is now one of cooling

Flanagan are you wilfully ignorant? There are a lot of scientists writing on this blog.
Ocean/sea water PH is alkaline. Some would say extremely so. No (readily available to humanity) amount of (whatever is meant by “excess”) CO2 dissolving into it will make it “acidify”, maybe just slightly less alkaline.
The Antarctic is a 2 kilometer thick layer of compacted ice. Continent wide nuclear bomb detonations wouldn’t put much of a dent in the thermal inertia tied up down there – and the trend is toward colder not warmer.
Emerging out of an ice age should produce a much sharper upward trend in temperatures than is happening. Some would add, has happened and will happen. Some would call the current trend flat, or falling.
As for a hot spot – there is one under my collar as I read your missive which is obviously designed as a wind-up. I was dumb enough to bite.
Blog-reading nobody, Terry Ward.

Well, I meant Arctic, my mistake. And there IS a hotspot, please read the IPCC reports and if you like, Real Climate.
Models are not “falsified” as you say. Of course if you start from the idea that all models are bull***** and all measures are bull******, then any discussion becomes difficult. There is no way something else than computer models can predict what the climate looks like. Unless someone is personally able to solve thousands of coupled differential equations by hand…
Bruce: an ad hominem attack refers to someone specific. Like when you accuse me of changing tactics or whatever. I was just expressing my opinion on some behavior that I find inappropriate for a constructuve discussion. If you ever felt attacked, please accept my excuses. And please also stop generalizing people: what you said is akin to saying all black people are stupid or all jewish people are liars, or any racist or one-sided opinion. Which I personnally cannot stand.

Flanagan (07:29:47) :
I did not hide beneath any consensus, where did I say this? I simply said that I’m amazed some blog-reading nobodys are convinced they are smarter than anyone else, smarter than a whole bunch of PhDs working for years on climate modelling. I try to remain modest, and do not qualify as “stupid” people who do not think like me – I just say some of them here are obviously so self-satisfied they do not admit others could be right.
I recall Joel Shore posting something like this recently. The implication, obviously, is that all intelligent people have PHD’s, and those who don’t are ignorant. Usually followed by, “How many papers have you published in peer reviewed literature.” Being someone who has two suma cum laude post-graduate degrees who left school for a high-paying job working on proprietary (Flanagan, this means used, manufactured, or sold by a person or company with an exclusive property right such as a patent or trademark) research, I have neither a PHD, nor an extensive list of computer modeling publications, similar to most of my intelligent friends. I therefore take considerable umbrage at being lumped in your sub-par grouping. Considering the logic of your posts, look in the mirror.

Leon Brozyna (22:03:39)
A principle in use by certain members of the US Congress says: “even though factual information is absent, the seriousness of the charge demands action” – the principle of Preemptive Supposition.

This must either the most stupid parliament since the mid 1800’s one which passed the act banning Brunel’s wonderful wide railway gauge, therebye sentencing practically everyone on earth to the misery of overcrowded, inefficient, narrow gauge trains.
It is either stupid or a parliament of timeservers, serving out there “yes boss” existence as they wait for their wonderful pensions.
The only good thing is, whereas the world took notice of the narrow railway gauge, and copied it, nobody else will take a blind bit of notice of the latest lunacy.

Flanagan, there is no hot spot–don’t read Realclimate–read climate audit where wild modeling climate claims are debunked and Gavin Schmidt ends up with constant egg on his face thanks to Steve.

Flanigan: Bruce: an ad hominem attack refers to someone specific. Not necessarily. Your ad hominem was targeted toward, if not the entire group, then a subset of those who post here. Same thing.
Like when you accuse me of changing tactics or whatever.
Which is exactly what you did, in your attempt to re-characterize your original statement.
And please also stop generalizing people… The truth is, AGWers don’t have science on their side so continually resort to tactics such as those you engaged in. We see it all the time. If the shoe fits…

Anthony, great picture! This is the best headline yet for those of us who hope for at least a Maunder Minimum to put Gore and his climate change cronies in the icebox!:] Living as I do in the heartland of socialism and global warming- Nancy Pelosi lives a few minutes walk from me-this gave me the biggest dose of cheer in many days!

Flanagan, please confirm or disconfirm your claim in the other weather-thread that “temperatures at altitudes of about 36 000 feet [..] should be stable or slightly cooling over time.” Thanks.

When the UK Labour Government came to power in 1997, they pledged to cut CO2 emissions to 20% below 1990 levels by 2010. At the time UK CO2 emissions had already fallen 9% so they were almost halfway there with 13 years to go. Roll forward 9 years to the latest figures (2006) and UK CO2 emissions have risen by 9 million tonnes since the pledge.
Clearly it was the way they dealt with that target that has inspired our Government into this latest insanity.

I concur Bill Marsh!
I expect it’s to do with the man-made stuff caused warming, & the natural stuff, caused by the mand-made stuff, causes cooling see! Easy. I heard of AGW scientists allegedly claim that they can distinguish between man-made CO2 & natural CO2 by its chemical composition. How they can do this when it is mixed with the air I don’t know? So could somebody enlighten me as to how this is done, I thought CO2 was CO2 was CO2, although I appreciate there is a difference between food-grade CO2 injected into drinks & natural stuff from landfill etc., but that is surely as result of controlled manufacture, as opposed to natural impuities within the gas?

As soon as I saw this on Drudge, I checked here, and sure enough, you are repeating–again–right wing drivel.
You’re just a hack, Mr. Watts!
Let’s remeber too that the first signs of GW will be COOLING OF THE BRITISH ISLES!
Geez!
REPLY: Reporting on a record weather event earns me the title of “hack”? You forget that weather is my life and my business. I have reported on weather for over 25 years, and this is the very first time I’ve been called a “hack” for doing so. Please note that I said NOTHING ABOUT GW in that post, the press story did. Your quarrel is with them then.
Now if you really want to get yourself angry, why not take a look at the next story where I report on records that have been set nationwide. Also, not one mention of GW there in my posting, just the data direct from the National Climatic Data Center.
What derisive term shall you use to then once you read that? I urge you to get creative. We await your judgment. – Anthony

According to today’s Guardian: “Chancellor Demands Cheap Petrol …”
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/30/oil-royaldutchshell)
Let’s see. That’s the Climate Change Bill on Tuesday, business as usual on Thursday. At this rate by next week it’ll be: “UK Government demands 0% cut in CO2 by 2050”

Bilhaus 10:36:15
“Let’s remeber too that the first signs of GW will be COOLING OF THE BRITISH ISLES!”
Absolute rubbish. Do let us know where you got that twaddle from.

Arkansas (08:16:08)
I’m one of them there rural folk and I ain’t never heard of a persimmon spoon. I live just a tad north of y’all and the persimmon trees are loaded this year. The coons have been havin themselves a field day. So this weekend I’m gonna take a look. We got our first frost so they be ready to pick now.
Does a persimmon spoon portend a harsh winter? I’m gonna cut me an extra cord o’ wood just in case.
Here’s all I found on that there Internet. At least I knows what to look for now.
http://igot2shoes.blogspot.com/2007/12/spoon.html

Darn – just when I had THE answer for my GW friends ……
Opting for a political solution to what is a political problem …. I was ready to blame, Day-Light-Savings, all that extra sunlight must have been to blame for a good deal of the extra warming …….

And now it’s all our fault the ice caps are melting
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Antarctica-Ice-Caps-Being-Melted-By-Human-Impact-Not-Natural-Sources-A-Scientific-Experiment-Reveals/Article/200810415136263?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15136263_Antarctica_Ice_Caps_Being_Melted_By_Human_Impact_Not_Natural_Sources_A_Scientific_Experiment_Reveals

Hey ar-KANSAS (that’s how we pronounce it where I’m from)
I found something about the Persimmon Spoon
Winter Weather Lore and the Persimmon
Check the seed of a persimmon after a fall frost. Cut into the seed from the narrow side, and look at the kernel. See if you can recognize the shape of a spoon, fork, or knife. (See Photo at the link below)
If the kernel is shaped like a . . .
spoon, look for a harsh winter with heavy, wet snow.
fork, look for a mild winter with light, powdery snow.
knife, look for a cold, icy winter with cutting winds
http://www.wgnsradio.com/index.php?s=folklore
(there is a lot more interesting winter folklore at this link)

Mike Bryant (08:17:49) :
You think you are “smarter than a whole bunch of PhDs working for years on climate modeling.”
-Flanagan
Mike you obviously do not understand the difficulties the computer modelers have in getting Nature to conform to their models. The public has been acclimatized to the infallibility of the computer since its inception…inception…inception…

Perry Debell (04:18:33) :
Phillip Bratby (00:32:45) :
Have either or both of you seen the video of Global Warming Is Not A Crisis, available on Michael Crichton’s website http://www.crichton-official.com/videos.html ?
Speaking for the motion: Michael Crichton, Richard S. Lindzen, Philip Stott Speaking against the motion: Brenda Ekwurzel, Gavin Schmidt, Richard C.J. Somerville Moderator: Brian Lehrer
March 14, 2007

Leif,
Well said. Yet, it is a difficult matter too. The EEC, the previous incarnation of the EU was presented to the peoples of Europe much like NAFTA was to the United States. But now look where they are. London can’t even pass its own legislation on any important matter anymore. The majority of British people no longer subscribe to AGW, yet their MPs are a lock for the idea. But even if their MPs were not, they are a part of the EU, and that matter is no longer in their jurisdiction. All this to illustrate the difficulty of being an ‘educated’ individual in a dumbed-down society. It’s much like you battling popular superstitions about the activity of the Sun versus the real science you deal with daily. At least nobody can vote to remove you.

“Leif Svalgaard (08:31:59) :
Brian Johnson (04:38:00) :
We have absolute idiots in our Houses of Parliament. […]
We are being led by morons.
And who are the morons that voted the other morons into office?
A people have the government they deserve…
”
Leif,
Woa be it for me to disagree…I hold your science, but more importantly your logic in high regard. The above, however, I do take issue with, at least on a general level. Voting one of the “idiots” out of office here in the States only results in the next idiot (from a line perhaps 20 long) who is next in line to step into the vacant slot. Quite simply, our system of government in the U.S. has disintegrated to the point where the people who really are smart enough and skilled enough to solve some of the problems we face wouldn’t go near public office with a 10′ pole.
Jim

Nice link to the current (30th October 2008) BBC mindset by JaneHM above(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7700387.stm
).
According to this august and creditable organisation the Fingerprint of Man (my capitalisations) is clearly visible on polar temperature changes and, by implication, may be culpable, if culpability is, indeed, relevant.
I would have liked the opportunity to find out out the views of those who read this article. Indeed, I may have felt moved enough to add an opinion of my own!
Alas, this option does not seem to exist. Comment from readers (and in the UK- public subscribers) is either, not on offer or very cleverly camouflaged!)
This is, given the professionalism of those who define editorial policy within the corridors of the BBC, not an unconscious decision!
This appears to break the very charter which underpins the existence of the BBC. The charter I refer to is ‘Building public value PDF (266KB)’ on the BBC link http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/policies/charter/
The following quote comes from the above reference:
‘Value for money must remain a key objective for the BBC throughout the next
Charter, and it needs to develop better, clearer structures of accountability and engagement with licence fee payers.’
Engagement with licence fee payers- Mmm- Nope Guys- Not really!
Bladly trotting out a feature-a fiction- a fact; and disallowing DIRECT feedback by omitting a clear and transparent mechanism is clearly a craven practise.
True, I could probably add my twopence worth to OFCOM or OFFCOLOR, or whoever, as thousands have done in the last week with the Ross-Brand-Sachs Fiasco!!!
For those outside the UK who are unfamiliar with this sorry, sordid story- just Google it and find out how low the once mighty can fall (or is that stoop)
Coming back to the topic that I believe is based on sceptical discussion on the relevance, or otherwise, of human activities and climate; I claim that the relevance of this post is to show that poor judgement and paucity of editorial sense may be greater contributers to media-fuelled hysteria on ‘Death of a Planet’ than political mendacity!
Personally, I sincerely hope that editorial re-education rather than editorial decimation will be the path taken by those on the BBC who have the stern challenge of meeting the legalities of Charter!
No more falling on swords please, Auntie Beeb!

“” Flanagan (07:29:47) :
I did not hide beneath any consensus, where did I say this? I simply said that I’m amazed some blog-reading nobodys are convinced they are smarter than anyone else, smarter than a whole bunch of PhDs working for years on climate modelling. I try to remain modest, and do not qualify as “stupid” people who do not think like me – I just say some of them here are obviously so self-satisfied they do not admit others could be right. “”
Just noticed this little ditty. Does your classification of “blog reading nobody’s” happen to include someone writing under the handle of “Flanagan” ?
As for this “whole bunch of PhDs working for years on climate modelling” Why don’t they try their hand at modelling the climate of planet earth; that being the place for which we have the most scientific (as in real measured observations of climate) information ??
A climate model that has the sun directly overhead at the south pole during the mid winter night, bathing the frigid pole with a constant barage of 342 W/m^2 24/7, exactly the same as is happening on the equator at the same time, does not seem to me to represent anything like what happens on our planet, where it is traditional to have it be dark, with the sun nowhere in sight during the south polar winter midnight. And we are used to having our sunlit tropical places illuminated by something like 1368 W/m^2 instead of the 342 alleged by the official NOAA global energy budget (model) that they promote.
After all those years and all those PhDs, you would think they should have discovered that something is wrong with their models.
I once had to interview a bunch of candidates for an electronic technician’s job; and the mandate was that it had to be a candidate from inside the company unless we could find none qualified. Surprisingly some PhD employees including a Stanford, and an MIT PhD emplyee applied for the job, along with various and sundry EEs and others (some of whom were facing a possible employee cutback). There was a single outside non employee candidate, but he didn’t have any recognised University degree at all, but just some paper from some Nicaraguan school. He and his mother had got lucky, and managed to escape from the country just before the rest of their family were slaughtered.
After the full panel of interviews, of all the candidates, our reading was unanimous, this kid from Nicaragua no-name school knew more about electronics than any of those PhDs from Stanford and MIT; and I hasten to add; those particular candidates; not all from those schools. The Stanford guy couldn’t even correctly tell me what Ohm’s Law was; well that is a trick question, and nobody I ever asked in an interview, gave me anything like a correct answer. I didn’t ask the kid from the no name Nicaraguan school, since we presumed he wasn’t supposed to know the answer.
He only lasted 8 months in the technicians job, then his boss busted him to full engineer status, as it was apparent that his no-name Nicaraguan school, had certainly equipped him to do that sort of job; whatever the hell that piece of paper he had said.
Which is not to knock PhDs; but face it, a PhD generally knows a hell of a lot about not much; so if you need the special skills of his thesis subject, he’s your man, otherwise he may have learned less than someone who got out of school and went to work earlier in his career and actually learned something of the real world.
Now a DSc, and I would sit up and take notice; but a PhD might be another Dr Laura; or have done his thesis in Ice Cream Making. Not too useful in some fields; maybe could be useful in climate science.

Graeme Rodaughan (21:51:16) said
“While I feel very sorry for the people of the UK, and I would not be suprised to hear of people freezing to death this winter, the silver lining is as follows”
I’m sorry but a 3 day cold snap cannot be extrapolated like that. All that has happened is that we have had a short burst or air coming down from the arctic, the UK gets them all the time over winter. We also get easterlies from Russia that does the same thing. But the prevailing weather is warmer maritime westerlies and south westerlies. Indeed the cold snap is already on it’s way out and by Sunday temps will be up to normal again. It’s hardly snowball Britain.
WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE and certainly this does not show one way or another about the valiity of AGW. Why is it being reported here? Seems to be filtering going on in regards to topic selection when talking about the weather, ie cold ? then post…
Outlook for this years UK winter weather is mild again.
Regards
Andy

Pfew, too many posts to follow. Just wanna say I’m also a blog-reading nobody. The reason why stratosphere should be cooling is explained in IPCC report chapters 2 and 4.
Did any of you read the new Geophysical Review Letters paper on polar temperatures being very far from what natural variability can account for?

Flanagan (07:29:47) on 10/30. If you’re a blog reading somebody, will you please explain to this nobody how you think Solar Cycle 24 starting up is going to warm up the earth, as you seemed to claim on another thread? When I challenged this assertion by your somebodiness, you failed to answer, which makes me feel like a nobody. So you get a chance to flesh out your somebodiness here. How about it?
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It looks like this new ‘proof’ from the Hadley Centre is just a recycled version of something that’s been around for some time. It’s not science. In fact, to call it ‘pseudo science’ would do it too much justice. I think a better description might be ‘confidence trick’.
This is how I would play the confidence trick. I would build a climate model (a computer program) with all the good and not-so-good stuff. Because I’m a passionate AGW believer I would of course include AGW at the core of the model. Of course, initially the model would fail to accurately predict past climate, so I would carry on adjusting and tweaking until it finally accurately reproduces past climate. I would plot a graph showing my model’s output and real historical climate, showing how wonderfully accurate the model is.
I would then remove the AGW component and then show a second graph, which would – as if by magic – show that the model no longer accurately reproduces past climate.
It’s a confidence trick for this reason: irrespective of whether the first version was honest or not, taking out the AGW component is guaranteed to make a big difference. If the version with AGW was tweaked and falsified to make it give the right answer, then taking out AGW is bound to make it wrong.
To mis-quote the M&S advertisement: This is not just science. This is junk science.
Chris

Andyw35 said: “WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE and certainly this does not show one way or another about the valiity of AGW. Why is it being reported here? Seems to be filtering going on in regards to topic selection when talking about the weather, ie cold ? then post…
Outlook for this years UK winter weather is mild again. ”
And mild is somehow bad…
But climate is weather, averaged over time. And why do we always hear about heat waves or record hot days here and there as evidence of AGW?

Speaking of snow.
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=02&fd=27&fy=1997&sm=02&sd=28&sy=2006
Apparently, when the fjords on the east coast of Greenland are covered with snow, they are no longer “sea ice”. The same is true for inlets on the north coast of Greenland. In this comparison as you follow the coast line around the entire perimeter of the sea ice you will notice that many bays and inlets have been “whited out”. There have also been a few ice islands added. I wonder if this was the adjustment that I’ve heard about. Has anyone else seen that graph with the adjustment? Did the adjustment occur concurrent with the addition of the snow to the pictures?
You know 100,000 sq kms, here and there can add up to a below average Arctic Sea Ice Extent. I don’t know what the real number is but it would not surprise me if it is app 300,000 sq km.
In a real bit of irony, the expanding ice shelves, covered with snow, could reduce the reported sea ice area, extent, volume and anomalies, even as Arctic temperatures plummet.
What really irks me is that this could also affect the outcome of the brownie bet.

Hi kim,
well temperatures are correlated to the sun activity, no?

Global cooling will be much, much worse than global warming would have ever been…

I shouldn’t really be so surprised by this, but of all the hundreds of MPs who voted this week only a handful of them – for instance, Conservative back-bencher Peter Lilley – appear to have raised a fuss over the appalling cost of the whole exercise. (The opposition to this stupid Bill has come from the back benches – not one party leader appears to have given the matter much critical thought.) Given that the government has just blown 37 billion pounds sterling of our money on bailing out the banks, you’d think that they’d be a little less enthusiastic over tossing yet more of our prosperity down the drain, but there we are. And make no mistake, the 80% emissions cut is nothing but a pointless and self-defeating gesture. The UK emits less than 2% of the world’s manmade CO2, and that percentage will be ever smaller, as China’s and India’s share grows. Even if AGW was a real issue, Britain going completely “carbon neutral” would be a drop in the ocean.
And there’s next to nothing about it in the news. The headlines this week have been mostly about two BBC presenters in trouble over making a prank phone call, a matter upon which political party leaders have made it their business to comment (as opposed to the presumably trivial prospect of long-term economic hardship resulting from the Climate Change Bill.)

Smokey (09:08:33) The graphs are different, and the scale is different, but the 300mb and 700mb on each show the same thing, so I don’t believe Flanagan manipulated the graph. However, both graphs refute his point; relative humidity has dropped.
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It seems like both extra snow and extra heat are being added in locations where no one lives to check it out.

Rhys (05:37:56) How about pitch and torched feathers for this Frankenstein Fabrication?
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Stupid limeys. This is what comes from too much warm beer.