Apparently, being uncertain about climate certainty is a crime worth jail time
What a week this has been. In preparation for the release of the IPCC Working Group II report, hate speech against climate skeptics seems to have ramped up and turned into a week-long unreality show. The proprietors and cheerleaders of the Climate Certainty Channel™ seem to be ever more sure of impending doom caused by (take your pick) global warming – climate change – climate disruption. Here is a summary of the feature programs this past week.
First, priming the pump, just about two weeks ago, we started out with this: Despicable climate ugliness courtesy of Lawrence Torcello – assistant professor of philosophy at Rochester Institute of Technology where he rationalized for climate “deniers” to be jailed.
Monckton followed up with a letter: Monckton’s letter to the Rochester Institute of Technology regarding Assistant Professor Lawrence Torcello
Of course, according to the David Suzuki funded Hoggan PR firm “DeSmog Blog” we are all just a bunch of angry lunatic fringe types for suggesting we take an exception to being jailed…that, and they say we completely misread the intent of Torcello’s essay, which is somehow philosophical: Exclusive: Climate Change Philosopher A Target Of Abusive Hate Campaign:
Under the headline “US Philosophy Professor: Jail ‘Denialist’ Climate Scientists For Criminal Negligence“ Delingpole wrote Torcello had argued “scientists who don’t believe in catastrophic man-made global warming should be put in prison”.
“This was a blatant misrepresentation of my article,” says Torcello
Then on March 19th, it was Anders and his wottsupwiththat spawn blog now changed to andthentheresphysics blog (which is a change in name only), he still allows hate speech: Quote of the Week – get your war crimes trial tickets now!
Apparently, I’m to be “frog marched” to The Hague for war crimes like trials all for having the temerity to have an opinion about not wanting to be jailed for having a skeptical opinion about climate.
Meanwhile, back at Bar-X Hate Ranch, another fan of the Climate Certainty Channel™ embraces Torcello’s essay, and decides to turn the volume up to 11:
In “Arrest Climate Change Deniers,” Gawker writer Adam Weinstein has such gems as:
This is an argument that’s just being discussed seriously in some circles. It was laid out earlier this month, with all the appropriate caveats, by Lawrence Torcello, a philosophy professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology.
“…with all the appropriate caveats,” Well, that makes it OK then! /sarc He adds:
We have laws on the books to punish anyone whose lies contribute to people’s deaths. It’s time to punish the climate-change liars. . .
Those denialists should face jail. They should face fines. They should face lawsuits from the classes of people whose lives and livelihoods are most threatened by denialist tactics. . . Those people are criminally negligent.
So far, not a peep from the standard bearers of climate morals at DeSmog or “andthentheresphyics” about Weinstein taking Torcello’s idea and running with it.
Some reactions to Adam Weinstein’s call for jail time:
Climatistas Double Down on Stupid (Powerline)
Another Fool Calls For My Arrest: Or, Adam Weinstein Slips A Nut (William Briggs)
But wait, it gets better, the clergy steps in and provides their sanction, but just not the one we expect:
Rowan Williams warns of climate catastrophe
The former Archbishop of Canterbury argues that Western lifestyles bear the responsibility for causing climate change in world’s poorest regions
While the “chaos [of the flood] came as a shock to many”, other countries in the developing world such as Bangladesh and Kenya among others had suffered far worse catastrophes caused by climate change over many years.
Dr Williams goes on to attack global warming sceptics and climate change deniers. “There are of course some who doubt the role of human agency in creating and responding to climate change, and who argue that we should direct our efforts solely to adapting to changes that are inevitable, rather than modifying our behaviour,” says Dr Williams.
A clergyman OK with the Telegraph using the hateful term “deniers”? oof!
In other hate-related news, the left went ballistic on Nate Silver for allowing Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. to write. Fabius Maximus has a summary
The Left stages a two minute hate on Nate Silver, Roger Pielke Jr (& me)
Summary: This week many on the Left served a banquet of snark on Nate Silver and his new 538 website for the sin of posting an article by Roger Pielke Jr (Prof Environmental Studies, U CO-Boulder). An article well-supported in the climate studies literature, and consistent with the work of the IPCC (they conceal these things from their followers; least they ruin the narrative). These posts demonstrate the ineffectual tactics that have drained away the Left’s support during the past 3 decades, and after 25 years of work produced no gains in their highest-profile public policy initiative. See other posts in this series, listed below.
It seems the left was arguing more about the fact that Pielke was allowed a place to speak, than what he planned to write about climate at http://fivethirtyeight.com/ It reminded me of the uproar over my interview on PBS News Hour, where they went ballistic because I had somehow violated their perceived inner sanctum, not so much because of what I said.
Predictably, editor Nate Silver caved to pressure, and he’s now back in the good graces of the proprietors of the Climate Certainty Channel™.
And, the Anti-Defamation League is still silent:
The silence of the Anti Defamation League suggests they endorse defamation of climate skeptics
So while we wait for the next IPCC report to come out, let’s consider climate certainty and uncertainty. This graph sums it up nicely.
The boxes represent the statements of certainty from IPCC reports over time. As reality (measurements) diverge from models, becoming more uncertain, the certainty of the IPCC gets stronger, and the hateful rhetoric ramps up to match the mean.
Hmmm, does that mean that it is time for Mann, Hansen, Jones, and all those other guys to make their perp walks?
Hitler Youth comes to mind….Monckton mentioned them at the Copenhagen travel expenses and do nothing much event. I mean fill in your lengthy travel expense form event.
They might arrest you, but I doubt you’d recovered from that. So where are we are with the dumb clucks on the panic Climate topic…oh arrest me!
How, exactly, does one arrest the climate itself? That should be a neat trick.
Perhaps it is time to punish those who use bogus pictures of steam to imply something else as a scare tactic to the uniformed.
Context will be their defence.
Just like all their failure to convince taxpayers is due to communication.
I like the Climate Certainty Channel.
Channelling for the Cult of Calamitous Climate?
The shrillness and venom of these lovelies communications is priceless.
So many of them are channelling the Mann-erisms and ethic of Gleick to convince their wavering flock.
More 10-10 videos coming up.
Buy Popcorn.
More hate speech this week including a “taxonomy of denial” flow chart claiming that Svensmark “invents physics”, Dr. Judith Curry “knows nothing”, Spencer, Christy, Lindzen, Singer, Happer, McIntyre refuse to “believe” in CAGW, and that Lomborg, Pielke, and Tol have “false beliefs”
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XwcA-mJDJVk/UzeNwyxtJrI/AAAAAAAACXQ/OPtOjEctXKg/s1600/FlowChart.JPG
http://rabett.blogspot.com/2014/03/belief.html
from “Eli Rabett”, which is the pseudonym of Joshua Halpern, a failed, egomaniacal chem prof at Howard University, rated “poor” by his unfortunate students:
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=543236
Halpern’s self description at Rabett Run:
“Eli Rabett is a not quite failed professorial techno-bunny, a chair election from retirement, at a wanna be research university that has a lot to be proud of but has swallowed the Kool-Aid. The students are naive but great and the administrators vary day-to-day between homicidal and delusional. His colleagues are smart, but they have a curious inability to see the holes that they dig for themselves. Prof. Rabett is thankful that they occasionally heed his pointing out the implications of the various enthusiasms that rattle around the department and school. Ms. Rabett is thankful that Prof. Rabett occasionally heeds her pointing out that he is nuts.”
Rejoice, Anthony, by their own words they reveal that they see you as a very powerful man. Cool!
Since it is Sunday…
“The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.”
Psalm 37:12, 13.
Yes, they are “wicked,” for they use l1es and dece1t to promote their anti-humanity, Enviroprofiteering.
Burn the
ChristiansuhwitchesuhJewsclimate deniers!Embrace the hate! It brought them nothing and nothing will bring them.
Well, okay, but make sure Jame Dellingpole is there to cover it. And Josh too!
We’ll take up a collection for your return flight, assuming you get one.
Time for a timely re-play. #(:))
For all the Truth in Science HEROES out there —
BART … DELLINGPOLE … DENOVA … GRAY … SALBY… SOON … WATTS …
I Need a Hero — Avengers (Bonnie Tyler)
The angry snarls of your enemies are SWEET music for they tell us that
YOU — ARE — WINNING!
THANK YOU!!
Gratefully,
Janice
I love the graph with the divergent lines being more and more confident, that says it all. I wonder where they think that all these people are dying of climate change.
I’m happy to be taken to court as a “denier”.
I have said from day one that the climate changes naturally. Mankinds effect on the climate is overstated and CO2 is not a major climate forcing.
There you go, in black and white.
Now the first person to take me to court has to produce one thing, and one thing only.
Scientific proof that mankind’s CO2 emissions are forcing changes. Not “97% certain” not “reasonable certain”. Solid, scientific proof which is undeniable. Then you can bang me up for as long as you like.
Science fact put man on the moon, not “science” opinion. In thirty plus years of “global warming / climate change” you would have though that the definitive proof would have been found given what’s at stake??
This is becoming exhausting. Can’t we just get along? 🙁
Rage will be even greater since beginning of April will not be too warm in the North America.
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/strat_a_f/gif_files/gfs_z70_nh_f240.gif
“It reminded me of the uproar over my interview on PBS News Hour, where they went ballistic because I had somehow violated their perceived inner sanctum, not so much because of what I said.”
Those that throw a hissy fit are not the small warmist cult members but the Kapos; they need to make sure that the small cult members never get information not sanctioned by the cult leaders.
When you discover a remaining cult member in the wild, just pity him for his still believing in the MSM. They hate that because it forces them to seek out better information which invariably undermines their programming. “Where did you get THAT from, oh I see, the MSM, oh poor little you, you’re STILL believing that? My, my…”
PaulH says:
March 30, 2014 at 10:22 am
“This is becoming exhausting. Can’t we just get along? :-(”
When you’re getting a lot of Flak it means you’re over the target.
Looks like it was about 1981 when the average of the models last agreed with the “real” data.
If they have to open a media outlet called “Certainty Channel” they are aknowledging that it’s not certain.
I doubt it fools anyone, any more that the state-run newpaper in the Soviet Union being called Pravda ( “truth” in russian ) did.
Doesn’t this climate change uproar seem analogous to scientists in the medieval ages being persecuted because they went against the religious consenus that the earth was the centre of the universe? How dare they propose the earth went around the sun!
My take on how the science is “settled.” Coral reefs, sea level rise, warming in the next 100 years, volcanic effects, wind energy reduces CO2 emissions, and more.
http://sowellslawblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/climate-science-is-not-settled.html
We can fling that term “denier,” which slanderously attempts to link skeptics to Holocaust denial, right back in their faces: carbon taxes killed 33,000 Britons from cold in 2013, and the ethanol program has killed at least 2 million from malnutrition and starvation. Global warming alarmists are the facilitators – and deniers – of a Holocaust that is going on right now.
Global warming alarmism: the new Holocaust!
Rowan Williams knows that in winter (in the UK) churches have to be heated to encourage the congregation to attend, to help fill the coffers.
Of course, this uses fossil fuels and electric power.
He’s a hypocrite.
So d*niers should be rounded up and arrested.
Didn’t something like that happen in Germany not really so long ago?
Didn’t some coin the “d*nier” label to equate those who question fortune telling tree rings with those who say that event in Germany never happened?
Now they want to repeat what they happened?
Is the ADL aware of this?
I have posted this elsewhere in regard to the Gawker piece by Weinstein: This is where unchecked progressivism and leftist thinking ultimately gets to. Lock people up for what they think. We saw this practiced on a massive scale in the 20th century, and yet it lives on. If you look at his temperature chart, which I don’t dispute, you can see a warming trend from 1900 to 1940 that is almost identical to the one from 1970 to 2000. What exactly was supposed to have caused that? Prior to 1940 man made CO2 emissions were de minimis. Now we have a complete lack of warming in the past 15 years which all of the vaunted climate models failed to predict. And we are supposed to prosecute people for having the temerity to question climate change orthodoxy. This is insane.
I want those evil beasts to continue hating me, calling me filthy names and spitting in my face. Do you know why? Because every time they do, it makes me even more determined to fight them until we win, or until I die. When evil people hate me because I am trying to do what’s right, it gives me great strength. Sooooo, keep it up lefties. I thrive on your hatred. Thank You..
Time to start characterizing the real deniers as such. Svere reduction of CO2 spells doom for the world via food crop starvation. We’re not certain what would happen with more CO2 but we do know for certain what would happen if the climate alarmists succeeded in removing vast quantities from the atmosphere. Turn their accusations on themselves. The danger is too little carbon, not too much.
Now the first person to take me to court has to produce one thing, and one thing only.
Scientific proof that mankind’s CO2 emissions are forcing changes
It has to be more than that in a court of law. The evidence has to be indisputable, without doubt (criminal law) and, oh, not tampered.
The logical progression of this is to release the real criminals crowding the jails to make room for us Deniers.
Andrew
To this list dare i add Muslims?
Burn the Christians uh witches uh Jews climate deniers!.
Whilst I cannot accept much of the practices of their religion the west spearheaded by the USA has done a bang-up job of fomenting hatred and ignorance for this group of religious fanatics.
Personally, i can take it or leave it, as long as they don’t break reasonable community and fair laws.
when one understands that climate science = ecology promoting sustainability which demands certain behaviour modification ie a ‘new ecology’ or ‘new man’ then it all becomes clear.
the drive for this ‘new ecology’ or ‘new man’ could be represented with soviet style posters where each person guards their ‘quota’ of earth resources.
the reason they use the term d enier is because they cannot use the word counter revolutionary in public
“No, I am Emmanuel Goldstein!”
The graph above shows that Alarmists are gamblers, at least psychologically.
It is the gambler who gets more confident that he will win every round of roulette that he loses.
The more he loses, the more he is certain that he will win the next round. That’ why he doubles down. Search for “Martingale System” in Google.
I used to enjoy tearing alarmist arguments to threads, but everyone I know or meet these days is now a sceptic or in the ‘Don’t know and don’t care’ camp.
The IPCC will come out with the same old rubbish, but perhaps with some kind of new spin on their ‘findings’. There then will be a short media blitz full of veiled and unsupported threats about Thermageddon, which will probably end up converting more people to the sceptic viewpoint.
A growing number of people are becoming tired of all the alarmist wolf crying, when the evidence for global warming Is not backed up by any observations, other than those which have been deliberately misinterpreted, or by predictions which are nearly always proved to be wrong due to preconceived bias.
I think the cacophony of hate cries are mainly concerned with alarmists becoming increasingly concerned that their gravy train may be about to derail.
When the climate is not doing what the computer models say it should do, then logically, these models are wrong.
The hysterical screams and rants of the “Believers” who resort to threats and insults as their only means left, say this a lot more loudly than any of the failing models and logic.
cnxtim says:
March 30, 2014 at 11:04 am
“Whilst I cannot accept much of the practices of their religion the west spearheaded by the USA has done a bang-up job of fomenting hatred and ignorance for this group of religious fanatics.”
You mean Obama didn’t bow enough?
Ahh…the expert scientific opinion of former Archbishop of Canterbury. It carries about as much weight as that of Westboro Baptist Church members. I don’t think any senior member of a Christian religion is in a position to lecture on damage done by western lifestyle given the organisation’s resume features the Crusades which killed between 1-3 million.
Call me ignorant, but what disaster did Kenya have as a result of ‘western lifestyle induced climate change’?
Gunga Din says:
March 30, 2014 at 10:50 am
“So d*niers should be rounded up and arrested.
Didn’t something like that happen in Germany not really so long ago?”
Happens all the time; the German laws against that are still in place, and are applied generously.
“Holocaust denial, the denial of the systematic genocidal killing of millions of Jews by Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s, is illegal in a number of European countries. Many countries also have broader laws that criminalize genocide denial. Of the countries that ban Holocaust denial, a number (Austria, Germany, Hungary, and Romania) were among the perpetrators of the Holocaust, and many of these also ban other elements associated with Nazism, such as Nazi symbols.” Wikipedia. When the truth isn’t enough, just pass a law. Could never actually happen with AGW, right? Right?
DDP says:
March 30, 2014 at 11:21 am
“Ahh…the expert scientific opinion of former Archbishop of Canterbury. It carries about as much weight as that of Westboro Baptist Church members. I don’t think any senior member of a Christian religion”
So because a catholic pope did something a thousand years ago, no word of any Christian carries any weight today? I’m a Christian! You can therefore ignore everything I say! You made yourself a very simple world. Maybe too simple?
….they are just grump because no one is listening to them….
http://www.gallup.com/poll/167843/climate-change-not-top-worry.aspx
Hockey Schtick
…Joshua Halpern, a failed, egomaniacal chem prof at Howard University, rated “poor” by his unfortunate students….
I looked at your link, and I don’t think it justifies your description. What it shows is considerable improvement over a period of years. Best we let the alarmists do the ad homs; we’re really not very good at that.
Now that the incident of a month or so ago at the Atlanta ADL chapter and the response to it* has taken away the ADL’s (false) claim of being unaware, their lack of a response leaves us with the conclusion that they simply don’t care. They don’t object to Holocaust imagery on principle, as they pretend, but only when it’s putatively used by someone on the other side of the political fence. It’s a free pass if you’re an ally of the ADL or in sympathy with many of its members views on other matters completely unrelated to the Holocaust.
*including a direct, detailed appeal to the director, Mr. Foxman, by WUWT reader Alan Bressler. Scroll down to his excellent letter to Mr. Foxman.
The older generation has seen it all. In Germany, 1933+. There was a scientific consensus on a supremacy of Aryan race, based on a peer-reviewed work of Prof. Ernst Haeckel. To ensure a bright future of the human species it was necessary to exterminate all inferior races. Do you want to see an inferior race? Just look in a mirror. Q.E.D.
There’s a website I visited called, ratemyprofessors.com, with student ratings for their professors. And our dear Lawrence Torcello, philosophy professor at Rochester Institute of Technology, RAT, er…I mean, RID, oops, I mean, RIT (there; I got it), was featured in some student reviews. Before quoting one review perhaps I should tell you that at least one student affectionately refers to this man of paper sheet deep intellect as, “Torch.” “Come on baby, light my fire.”
Ok, now let’s let ‘er rip:
‘4/28/11
CritThin
Grade ReceivedN/A
‘Easy class. You can tell he is interested in the material. He is quite entertaining and good looking. There is a decent amount of reading, and some of it can be very dry. Also, there are some lectures that can just be downright painful (think powerpoints). But that changes fast once you get farther in the quarter.’
Notice something there? Good looking? Now, aside from the fact, that if one looks at a photo of ‘Torch’, that that is an opinion highly subject to debate, one must ask the question: “What the hell does being good looking (or not) have to do with the quality of instruction from a professor?” But then maybe the photons bouncing off his skin and hair carries more appeal then the sound waves emanating from his oral cavity. I doubt it though.
David L. @10:28 am: Models are very flexible. Just “calibrate” them against real data, and you get a wonderful agreement. The only problem is that they don’t know where to get future data.
The former Archbishop of Canterbury’s Western lifestyle has provided him, and others, a level of ignorance that cannot be afforded in the world’s poorest regions. To pretend otherwise is an affront to Christianity.
I’m not asking you to repent, Dr. Williams, just to educate yourself.
Can I ask people to give me a translation of all the allusions/quips/in-jokes and so on?
In my benighted Australianness, i don’t know what much of the article is taking about.
To Michael Hart, ‘
More hate speech this week including a “taxonomy of denial” flow chart claiming that Svensmark “invents physics”, Dr. Judith Curry “knows nothing”, Spencer, Christy, Lindzen, Singer, Happer, McIntyre refuse to “believe” in CAGW, and that Lomborg, Pielke, and Tol have “false beliefs” ‘
is kinda astonishing.
I’ve read most of those guys, and I dare anyone to provide a direct quote that they denied that the climate change. They twist the English language in such a propagandistic way, its not funny. And as history teach us, dangerous.
How about this?:
Here is a subtly subversive logo-idea of mine that should be used at Heartland’s upcoming Conference on Climate Change:
Image—A hockey stick with its shaft slanting upwards & to the right and with its blade flat and pointing to the right. It’s transparently overlaid on a graph of the running mean of GASTA, averaged from five sources.
Caption—”Who’s in Denial Now?”
If brevity is the soul of wit, it’s soulful. It will make people think–or squirm–and smile at its “winning” cleverness.
In particular, in order for it to be included in photos used in the MSM, it should be positioned in one of these locations:
In a banner over the lectern;
In a background placard behind or alongside the lectern. (Similar to the image of the White House used at presidential press conferences.)
In a foreground placard attached to the lectern.
It should also be used on coffee cups, T-shirts, letterheads, and buttons.
Its been a long cold winter.
At what point does “nothing happening” finally get recognized by them. They just chant over and over again that “climate change is real, its happening now and it is caused by humans.”
When is this thing supposed to happen.
How it came to Name Calling, Bearing False Witness and all that
As ecology comprises for some reason 50% of a climate science course one has to look at it to understand why climate science is not about climate but sustainability.
To understand the language of ipcc style ‘climate science’ one needs to know the difference between deep ecology and social ecology and why they hate each other. How their aim is to create a ‘new man’ that has a new ecology who is not ego centric but eco centric. The current ego centric ecology with its hierarchy and domination is summed up in capitalism. The eco centric model of man renounces these for a new life in harmony with an idealised vision of what ecology should be. This they claim will end all ‘threats’ to sustainability to this new man ecosystem and will be joy.
The hatred expressed by those wanting an eco man ecology for those they see as stuck in ego centric ecology [with all its destruction and co2 creation] comes out in name calling and bearing false witness.
As we see we are now a long way from ice age cycles, inter glacial warming, models, measurements, recording and other topics one might think is proper climate science.
Science is a tool. i go to the car mechanic to fix my car. What his views on vegetarianism are not relevant to fixing the car. To be called a science a science has a standard of prove predict. As presently constructed what is usually called climate science fails that test [see ipcc reports] because its main concern is creating a ‘new man’ who is eco centric.
“jauntycyclist says: March 30, 2014 at 11:08 am
when one understands that climate science = ecology promoting sustainability which demands certain behaviour modification ie a ‘new ecology’ or ‘new man’ then it all becomes clear.
the drive for this ‘new ecology’ or ‘new man’ could be represented with soviet style posters where each person guards their ‘quota’ of earth resources.
the reason they use the term d enier is because they cannot use the word counter revolutionary in public”
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
You are spot on. And as history will show, and with new phraseology, they are back…rejuvenated under a new banner. With a smile they will strike first as they always do, but first they have to disarm the sheep dog.
And as Janice pointed out… it is Sunday… 🙂
“The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.”
Psalm 37:12, 13.
Commune often…
We have laws on the books to punish anyone whose lies contribute to people’s
deathsloss of property and liberty by means of deception. It’s time to punish the climate-change liars. . .Fixed. Now I agree.
For those wondering what is driving their desperation it is this. They see their dreams of a green utopia are slipping away.
Ah, that well known international crime of being more convincing that warmists. Who knew that a blog could be classed as a weapon of mass destruction?
When will those people stop feeling the need to demonstrate their anadequacies? If I was on the other side I would now feel a strong desire to defect so as not to be a member of the stupid party.
One more thing…… Let’s not lose track of the fact that obama’s “Science and Technology” czar john holdren, the eugenics freak and climate liar, has NO ACCREDITED SCIENTIFIC CREDENTIALS! (He’s also the monster that, along with his mentors, refers to the population as “A pulsating mass of maggots.” Yeah, I believe that guy when he tells me the sky is falling and the only way to stop it is if I die..
“Michael D Smith says:
March 30, 2014 at 9:59 am
How, exactly, does one arrest the climate itself? That should be a neat trick.”
Gore, Feinstein, Pelosi, Brown & co. will probably try – they’ve already done all they can to
kill business and the economy…
Douglas Adams had a few thoughts on that (or at least the judges did…)
(from THHGTT radio script)
’The Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy’ is an indispensable companion to all those who are keen to make sense of life in an infinitely complex and confusing universe. For though it cannot hope to be useful or informative on all matters, it does make the reassuring claim that where it is inaccurate, it is at least definitively inaccurate.
In cases of major discrepancy it is always reality that’s got it wrong.
So, for instance, when the Guide was sued by the families of those who had died as a result of taking the entry on the planet Traal literally – it said “Ravenous Bugblatter Beasts often make a very good meal for visiting tourists” instead of “Ravenous Bugblatter Beasts often make a very good meal of visiting tourists” –
the editors claimed that the first version of the sentence was the more aesthetically pleasing; summoned a qualified poet to testify under oath that beauty was truth, truth beauty, and hoped thereby to prove that the guilty party in this case was life itself for failing to be either beautiful or true.
The judges concurred…and in a moving speech held that life itself was in contempt of court and duly confiscated it from all those there present before going off for a pleasant evening’s Ultra-golf.
….. (/excerpt)
they’re trying to confiscate it, but by much slower means….regulations, killing economies, etc.
…
otoh, better to take the high road than stoop down to their level
with regard to Rowan Williams, wasn’t there someone from the Church of England in that BBC secret meeting (to set reporting, er, direction)?
Could be money or other interests involved….have to say sometimes that perhaps Rowan Atkinson
(Mr. Bean) would have made more sense than Rowan Williams
They don’t have the facts. They do have the PR. The smear is pure PR.
It’s cold outside and they said it wouldn’t be.
Time to silence those pointing to the thermometer.
Adam Weinstein is so clued in as to what caused most of the surface warming since 1950 that he asks for sceptics to go to jail. He might also want to tell us the cause of the similar rate of warming between 1910 to 1940?
He forgot to add the environment. 😉
There may be hope. I regularly visit the Guardian Enviro/Climate Change page (as well a couple others) and today there is an interview article titled: “James Lovelock: environmentalism has become a religion. Scientist behind the Gaia hypothesis says environment movement does not pay enough attention to facts and he was too certain in the past about rising temperatures.”
at http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/mar/30/james-lovelock-environmentalism-religion
Three things struck me about it. First he seems eminently reasonable in his views. Second the fact that it appeared as it is in the Guardian surprised me in that it is decidedly agnostic. Third, there is very little (almost none actually) cheap criticism and snark directed at Lovelock in the article for his views. It may be because he specifically says he is not a “denier” even though his views seem to qualify. It may be a bit of a zombie thing – the alarmist warmists may, like zombies, be unable to recognize and go after prey if the prey does not look or smell like what they have been told it should. Perhaps reasonable people should start every conversation with “Not A Denier” and it would bestow immunity to spew.
they hate us because they know we are right, and always have been. They are wrong and always have been.
You know, looking at the graph you see that the measured numbers have been diverging from the predicted numbers from the start. The models came out in what, the 1990’s? So any accuracy prior to that doesnt count, and the divergence was noticeable almost immediately. And they didnt try to improve the models at all.
” It’s time to punish the climate-change liars. . . ”
In the infamous words of “Duke Nukem”; my response to Anthropological Global Warming Sham Alarmists threats of frog marching is: ‘Come Get Some!’
I read a lot of these pseudo-philosophical and neo-political rants on left-wing blogs (and Socialist MSM too). They are definitely getting more shrill. To steal a phrase: WUWT?
Regardless, the threads and comments of those same extremist sites are always packed with comments from (I assume) average people who are outraged at the radical, almost totalitarian world view of the articles’ authors.
Conversely, WUWT and other AGW sceptic sites seem to be populated with (for the most part) people engaged in reasonable discussion, debate and a quest for knowledge. I can only assume that the crazed climate haters have surrendered these battle fields. After all, they only seem to thrive in a self-contained bubble of circular reaffirmation….poor deluded fools I say.
it seems trying to counter the social ecologists [i mean climate scientists] with climate facts is a waste of time because their drive for an eco centric man exists even if there was no climate warming. This is sometimes shown when they say ‘wouldn’t it be good to be sustainable anyway’.
imo they are not even interested in the science which is why its so bad with incompetent models with no prove predict capability and that falls apart like a well boiled chicken when examined.
social ecology hides behind the fig leaf of global warming then it became climate change now probably ocean acidification etc. The name doesn’t matter to them. Anything with co2 they see as ego centric ecology and thus bad [must include plants then?].
Climate Change and Social Ecology
A New Perspective on the Climate Challenge
http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9780415809870/
was written by a town planner
Man Bearpig says: “they hate us because …”
The hate us because we are starting to impact their lively hood$ by cutting off their Air-$upply.
They are also worried about facing possible fraud charges involving government funding. Given scope of involvement with AGW, people, organizations, politicians, etc. seems like RICO would be a perfect fit.
There is a sickness in the world, climate alarmists are showing their true colours and horrifyingly there is no difference between them and the nazis or Islamic fundamentalists who want to kill anyone who does not share their cause or religion.
The former Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, is clearly strongly engaged by the new religion of global warming (despite clearly having no understanding of facts). Were I a cleric such as he I would muse over the fact that at all the previous climate conferences there has been unseasonably cold weather and wonder if, in fact, my God was sending a clear message about this false religion.
And folks still wonder why socialism so often degenerates into tyranny? You’ll search far and wide for a “leftie” who doesn’t vow fealty to AGW theory. It’s a religion for those folks. That frame of mind leads them, as religions often do, to view their battles as “good against evil” and where the end justifies any means.
CH
Food for a good lawyer I think.
The extremer those warmist hacks become, the easier it will be to kick their ass.
That’s from a legal point of view of course.
The hundreds of billions of dollars diverted by the Church of Global Warming to silly science, conferences and alternative energy projects could have saved tens of millions of lives in the third world. Time to frog march Warmers off to the gulags.
Okay, we may not actually go to prison. “…Now thanks to thought policing by the American Psychiatric Association the latest addition of the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) is setting up the dominoes for arbitrary diagnosis of any dissenting individuals.
Listed as new mental illnesses are above-average creativity and cynicism. The manual goes on to identify a mental illness called “oppositional defiant disorder” or ODD. Defined as an “ongoing pattern of disobedient, hostile and defiant behavior,” symptoms include questioning authority, negativity, defiance, argumentativeness, and being easily annoyed.”
Sure sounds like sceptics. Say hello to Nurse Ratchet.
Socialism always turns into totalitarianism. Especially when they run out of other people’s money.
Maybe they could take the 30k plus names from the petition project to court for starters?
In a more serious vein:
I still don’t think the thinking side of this discussion should even be using the term ‘hate speech’. By that I mean that the whole scam of hollering “I am SO offended” is an alinskyite / cultural marxist meme.
Instead of being offended we should just call them names back when occasionally appropriate.
Hollering about ‘hate speech’ just validates their approach.
If someone wants to call me a climate change dexxxxer, my response would be:
“That’s incorrect. I am a CAGW dexxxxer. Please be precise.”
jauntycyclist says: March 30, 2014 at 1:12 pm “Anything with co2 they see as ego centric ecology and thus bad…”
It is in reality an avenue they have commandeered for which to gather all their hatefulness at something and to someone. A clever tool used to divide and conquer.
Anthony
It’s always a mistake to mention any reference to Nazi Germany, because there are not a few fruitloops on here who appear to spend their waking hours linking everything they don’t like to the Nazis.
It’s bad enough that people like you are defamed for whether they believe that climate change is a scientific truth that may not be questioned, let alone tested, on pain of losing their immortal soul.
The most painful part for me is that the closer one is to actual examination of the real Nazi Holocaust, the more tasteless and abhorrent are the comparisons on either side of this wretched “debate”.
Enough is enough.
I AM SPARTACUS!
Richard
R. de Haan:
re your post at March 30, 2014 at 1:19 pm.
Have you no shame?
In a thread about untrue hate speech you make your post which only consists of untrue hate speech.
Richard
Claude Harvey:
Your post at March 30, 2014 at 1:16 pm says in total
All true socialists oppose tyranny and many of us oppose the AGW scare.
I opposed Margaret Thatcher starting the AGW scare (see http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/richard-courtney-the-history-of-the-global-warming-scare/ ) and I have consistently opposed the false scare which she created since then.
It really is a shame that whenever WUWT has a thread about hate speech then the thread is polluted by right-wing hate speech.
Richard
This is the UN’s own language from 1995: “multilevel modeling also provides a basis for time effective management and credible policy development in complex situations.” They are paraphrasing Marx and then Kurt Lewin: the purpose of a model is not to reflect physical reality, but to change it. The model creates the hype that results in political power to change society.
The FuturICT project Alex Pentland from MIT is involved in also acknowledges that the models exist to gain policy making power and force collective decision making.
This is the week they release a new report from the IPCC. All the alarmists have left are: predictions of the apocalypse and hate for “deniers.” You don’t get an ounce of science anymore from them. Too hard.
I was a bit curious about Dr. Rowan Williams so I looked him up in Wikipedia and promptly discovered that his real name is:
‘Rowan Douglas Williams, Baron Williams of Oystermouth’
How did our former Archbishop travel the long path from the title of Archbishop, to Doctor, to Baron, and finally to Oystermouth? Again, according to Wikipedia:
‘…his new peerage was created on 8 January and gazetted on 11 January 2013 as “Baron Williams of Oystermouth”.’
Now, I promise, I promise, I promise I will not make any more fun of the title, Oystermouth, than is absolutely necessary. Indeed Dr. Williams, who certainly feels himself a cut above the rest of us (he must if he tolerates the title, Oystermouth), provides plenty of opportunities for a giggle or two through the knee slapping contradictions of his views. Let us start with his views on Social Issues. In Wikipedia his views start off with a smiling photo of him with this caption:
‘Williams speaking at the 2010 World Economic Forum in Davos.’
Now, I tend to doubt that Doctor (Why on Earth does he have that title as well?) Williams got to Davos on the wings of god. More likely he got there in an aluminum tube burning fossil fuels. In fact the man travels quite a bit. And certainly not on the back of a donkey. Heck, a donkey probably wouldn’t be appropriate for a really upscale ski resort such as Davos, Switzerland is. Nice travel opportunities, eh? But let us continue:
‘His interest in and involvement with social issues is longstanding. While Chaplain of Clare College, Cambridge, Williams took part in anti-nuclear demonstrations at United States bases.’
I wonder if he’s currently taking part in any anti-nuclear protests in say, Iran? Or, how about Pakistan, which is ramping up nuke production to possibly sell to Saudi Arabia? Or, Egypt? Perhaps because most people don’t seriously fear the US actually using one of these devices (only time was in the heat of a major world war 70 years ago) is the reason our brave Dr. Williams didn’t fear protesting them in the US. Or, maybe it’s because donkey rental rates are cheaper in the US? Let us continue.
‘He was in New York at the time of 11 September 2001 attacks, only yards from Ground Zero delivering a lecture; he subsequently wrote a short book, ‘Writing in the Dust’, offering reflections on the event. In reference to Al Qaeda, he claimed that terrorists “can have serious moral goals”‘
Ok, got that? The sheer vile sanctimoniousness of a supposed scholar reflecting on the moral provenance of such an act is probably sufficient grounds not to take anything seriously on any other subject. Ah, what the heck, let’s continue.
‘Williams has argued that the partial adoption of Islamic sharia law in the United Kingdom is “unavoidable” as a method of arbitration in such affairs as marriage, and should not be resisted.’
Ok, I didn’t delve enough into his background enough to know, but does Dr. Williams have a wife for crying out loud. Whaddaya think she has to say about marriage and sharia law? Of course it also appears this supporter of sharia law also supports gay rights. Wikipedia’s a little unclear about Dr. Williams’ viewpoint but apparently he supported the ‘Anglican Covenant’ which involved the consecration of homosexual bishops. Now, I happen to support gay rights, but I don’t happen to support sharia law: a feature of my opinions I find at least to be consistent. Maybe, just maybe, we can consider Dr. Williams consistent: consistent in his inconsistencies.
Before anybody, anywhere chooses to put any stock into what that man says about Western Society, consumerism, or global warming perhaps they should politely request that he travel to Iran, or Pakistan, to protest their possession, or upcoming possession of nuclear weapons, and also on behalf of gay rights. And until he does so, which he won’t, under no circumstances should we even remotely consider allowing him even a tiny possibility of getting his hands on the levers of the way we live.
There is an old Marxist expression about creating theories to change history. Models are theories in this sense as well. I used this quote to describe what is coming in education globally but it also applies equally well to these Climate Models like the IPCC, they seek to mandate: “forward-looking transformative practices that are needed to enact history in the present.”
The perpetrators of the Oxygen Catastrophe still go unpunished for this horrific crime.
Not one of Canada’s major newspapers had a front page story regarding Earth Hour today, at least online (I don’t support them by buying their rags). You had to really search hard to even find mention of it at all. Except for The Sun which used Earth Hour to run articles against it. The truth is winning.
Thanks, A. and Dr. Pielke Jr. and others that find the courage to speak their minds.
Please keep up the good work.
It has been some time since the cult was global cooling, now it’s climate change because global warming was stalled.
There was an all-powerful king that never failed to order the Sun to rise every morning and set every day [from Antoine de Saint Exupéry].
And yes, every time the IPCC has a report, the climate sensitivity could be smaller and the uncertainty larger.
And the scam wants to go on even though their models fail. But the climate has been changing since there was an Earth planet, no amount of penitence will stop it, no indulgences.
Is it a crime or ignorance to denie “climate change” and who do they want to arrest that denies it? They are mad because so many are not buying the CAGW preaching of IPPC scripture. Climate is always changing and there are few that don’t recognize that as fact.
Lest we forget:
These people have blood on their hands.
“We have laws on the books to punish anyone whose lies contribute to people’s deaths.”
Tell it to Friday Mukamperezida, who was burnt alive so they could plant trees to “protect the environment and help fight global warming.”
WUWT coverage: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/09/25/they-had-to-burn-the-village-to-save-it-from-global-warming/
NYT coverage: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/world/africa/in-scramble-for-land-oxfam-says-ugandans-were-pushed-out.html?_r=5&scp=3&sq=uganda&st=cse&
Climate Justice? what about Justice for Friday Mukamperezida?
Michael D Smith:
It is the ultimate denier after all, as that graph shows.
Richard Courtney: Agreed that we can easily lapse into hate speech ourselves. That’s always been the way with such techniques, deliberately seeking such a reaction in order to discredit all its opponents. We should know better and we need to do better.
Not climate related directly however related to the same progressives that have caused the death of millions of Africans by getting DDT banned.
Richard Courtney.
As I told you a few weeks ago, Socialism and CAGW are joined at the hip.
Both are failures and both are going to get pounded here and the various others sites you have run away from.
This conceit that no one can tell the truth about socialism because you have an one man utopian view of it…..
It does not surprise me that the totalitarian Climate Deceivers think Orwell’s ‘1984’ is actually a manual on ‘how to achieve your dreams …’ and actually a desirable outcome, especially as they see ‘Animal Farm’ as Phase 2 to be achieved through the delivery of Agenda-21 and world government via the superior beings selected by the UN.
I suggest that everyone reading this blog read about ‘Hate Week’ in 1984.
Let’s stick to the facts. Rowan Williams did NOT use the term ‘climate denier’, not in the Telegraph article anyway. The person who used the term ‘denier’ was the Telegraph journalist. Mr Williams referred to people who have ‘doubts’.
During his tenure Archbishop Rowan Williams did such a poor job defending his God and defending his Church that we should welcome him defending AGW.
Can someone feed them more rope?
TomJ,
According to every U.S. intelligence agency, Iran isn’t trying to build nuclear weapons.
So why are you catapulting NeoCon propaganda to the contrary?
Israel has 100s of nukes—and unlike moderate and tolerant Iran—refuses, to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty or permit inspections.
Remember the U.S.S. Liberty.
The problem with the CAGW movement is advocating radical economic and social regulation. “The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and prosperity,” warns Czech President Vaclav Klaus, “is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism.”
The socialist intellectual elite has been handed the ultimate salvation: environmentalism.
They, the socialists, are preparing the supporting canonical legislation that will tell you how much you can travel, what kind of light you will read by, and at what temperature you may set your bedroom thermostat. The British parliamentary committee proposed that every citizen be required to carry a carbon card that must be presented, under penalty of law, when buying gasoline, taking an airplane or using electricity. The card contains your yearly carbon ration to be drawn down with every purchase, every trip, every swipe.
There is great social power in the power to ration. Along with food (10,000,000 Ukrainians that Stalin starved), there is no greater instrument of social control than rationing energy. Just ask those 31,000 souls who perished in Great Britain who had to make a choice between high priced energy or food.
I say “Bring It On!”.
Any that do will feel that uncomfortable feeling the “Mann” is feeling right now about the discovery process through the court system.
Come one, come all, and let’s have a closer look at what is at issue and settle this science with a jury of our peers. 《;-)
http://youtu.be/7U2E-In0DDg
@DirkH
If you talked out of your arse like Williams is well renowned for on any number of subjects he knows nothing about and the Westboro Church members have an official policy of, then yes I would also ignore your opinion. It has nothing to do with religion, it’s all down to talking crap. There is nothing wrong in making the world simpler in that respect.
It feels like the days leading to Kristallnacht.
“And, the Anti-Defamation League is still silent” – There was siilence by those who should have known better during McCarthyism.
Khwarizmi says:
March 30, 2014 at 2:32 pm
TomJ,
According to every U.S. intelligence agency, Iran isn’t trying to build nuclear weapons.
So why are you catapulting NeoCon propaganda to the contrary?
Israel has 100s of nukes—and unlike moderate and tolerant Iran—refuses, to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty or permit inspections.
Remember the U.S.S. Liberty.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yup, it is hate week all right. The loons come out of the woodwork citing Iran as “moderate and tolerant” and trying to pass off an incident that happened during a war 40+ years ago that both governments understand was a mistake as being relevant.
If you’re going to “remember” something how about remembering the girls in Iran who are executed for crimes like “being alone with a boy” but, since it is against the law to execute a virgin, are first raped by prison guards so that the execution is OK by Iranian law.
I’ve got a few hundred other things you ought perhaps to “remember” but that should be sufficient to get your pee sized brain functioning for the moment.
The ignorance, silliness, arrogance and dishonor of naming a website “climate certainty” are beyond hope of any adequate adjectives.
There is a reason for their increasing franticness, though–they are getting absolutely nowhere in persuading us. Their yowls about “don’t you believe the scientists?” runs up against the fact that WE are the scientists, plus our exposes on the fiddled-with surveys, their hokey stick has been debunked, their physics is incomplete, and perhaps worst of all, Mother Nature is currently making a mockery of all their predictions (see graph in the article). The subject is life-and-death. When you get nowhere on a subject of life-and-death, you start to scream.
There is a second reason for their energetic fury–the climate IS changing in ways that threaten human welfare. CO2 is not the source–draining our aquifers and poisoning the ground threaten our food supplies and the well-being of wildlife. I think their understanding can be shifted. With an understanding of what is really going on, they can start to create worldwide changes and take lovely before-and-after photos of deserts they have greened.
A third reason for alarmist screaming is taxes. The whole scam is an effort to get more money from a carbon tax, thus enriching Algore and climate “researchers.” This effort s failing mostly because the Public is utterly tapped out and has no more to give. Part of the reason for that is the greenie attack on all energy sources.
Handling the farming disasters is doable, allows world GDP to rise, enabling an actual increase in taxes, and lots of real profits, money for improved environmental care (the real thing), and above all–it is much more fun.
Hi Anthony,
I agree with commenter WTF (March 30, 1:45 pm): The truth is winning.
What we are witnessing is the total collapse of the global warming movement. People at the centre of the echo-chamber (no debate-zone) are aware that the climate war is lost but are unwilling and unable to admit their defeat, hence the extra shouting, blaming, name-calling and threats. Their income, reputation and lifestyle are on the brink of destruction.
The MSM may still be largely on their side, so they still get a podium, but the truth is winning. The tide is turning. No-one actually listens or takes them serious anymore. Thanks to you and other high-profile skeptics and bloggers the debate has continued and their theory has been thoroughly discredited.
Just keep hitting back with the facts. Victory is near!
Kind regards,
Scarface
The more extreme they become, the more skepticism will take hold.
Nobody likes ranting Harpies.
Robert in Calgary;
As I told you a few weeks ago, Socialism and CAGW are joined at the hip.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So ate Captialism and CAGW. Why do you think that the MSM is so pro CAGW? Because they are socialists? Nonsense, they are for profit businesses just like any other business. How do they generate revenue? Advertising. Who spends the bulk of the money with them on advertising? Do you think it is researchers at universities? Seriously? Follow the money. CAGW has dug its roots deep into private enterprise, creating an unholy alliance of capitalists, academics and socialists.
You want to win this debate? Then embrace one of the best science minds in this debate, and understand that when he objects to the characterization of socialism, it is not without merit, just as capitalism is not without guilt.
You live in arguably one of the most socialized countries in the free world. Arguably one of the best countries on the planet to live in as well.
Politics and science are not a single shade of gray.
Their precious ‘models’ are diverging more strongly from real facts and data. As the divergence grows they become more certain. When the climate no longer does their bidding, they are driven from facts, to use ad hominems, baseless accusations,and hysteria.
The screams and hysterical rage of the “Ture Believers” speak more loudly than anything, that their end is near.
“WTF says:
March 30, 2014 at 1:45 pm
Not one of Canada’s major newspapers had a front page story regarding Earth Hour today, at least online (I don’t support them by buying their rags). You had to really search hard to even find mention of it at all. Except for The Sun which used Earth Hour to run articles against it. The truth is winning.”
Interesting, The Sun having an article about Earth Hour (with articles against it)….looks like the Sun (Sol) is cooling in its attitude towards the Earth…(sorry…)
Also, DDT and the Freon (diclordifluormethane) hoaxes have caused no end of problems, in particular in warmer lands. Looking back, I think think that “Silent Spring” was a dry run for the
CAGW drivel we’re seeing nowadays….geesh…
It’s especially irritating (heck, frightening) to see a sticker on my FREEZER, of all things, saying
explosion danger !!! I forget which refrigerant is being used (R500? R600?) (have to wonder about how many failures there were between R12 (Freon) R134a (?) and R600…..), but the thought of the formerly flash-frozen contents of my freezer sublimating (flashing?) into instantly cooked (and probably charred) food due to the REFRIGERANT exploding is horrifying…
Daimler-Benz recently spent a lot of time, effort, and toasted cars showing that the latest folly of the EU’s unelected overlords was terribly unsafe (a fire in an auto with the proposed refrigerant would produce Hydrogen Fluoride, among other hazmat-type products). Same hysteria as CAGW, with no “earlier data” to substantiate the claims….
davidmhoffer,
Richard isn’t going to get his way here. That’s the basic point.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you….I guess we’re at stage three now!
Robert in Calgary;
Robert in Calgary says:
March 30, 2014 at 3:17 pm
davidmhoffer,
Richard isn’t going to get his way here. That’s the basic point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then you misunderstood mine. You can learn a lot about both science and socialism and the roots of the CAGW meme if you listen to him with an open mind instead of rejecting and attacking him out of hand. Don’t make the same mistake about Richard and socialism that the CAGW cheer leaders have made about the science.
For the record, I am not a socialist.
Yes, this is the level of ‘climate change science’, childish, pathetic and sad. Real investigative journalism is dead and ‘science’ is now whatever the latest social fad says.
Well, if someone comes for you, smash his teeth down his throat.
When alarmists respond to presentation of observed data and facts by skeptics and name-calling, they are confessing that they have lost the argument, and further demonstrating this insofar as the only “evidence” they have to refute the skeptic case is the epithets they utter.
As for the threats to punish skeptics, these may well be characterized not only as hate speech, but criminal acts of conspiracy to violate the civil rights of skeptics. There are some very tough laws against intimidating or threatening to harm people for exercising their free speech rights, and skeptics should resort to them if presented with these sorts of threats, Conspiracy should be very easy to prove amongst the extreme alarmists, given the volume of chatter among them.
A Geography (climate change) teacher friend of mine tells me he no longer does Al Gore’s ‘An Inconvenient Truth’ in the classroom, now it’s ‘The Day After Tomorrow’.
Khwarizmi says:
March 30, 2014 at 2:32 pm
“According to every U.S. intelligence agency, Iran isn’t trying to build nuclear weapons.”
How would you know what the US intel agencies really know? Misinformation is used frequently to keep enemies guessing. The first rule of intelligence is never let them know what you know.
“Israel has 100s of nukes—and unlike moderate and tolerant Iran—refuses, to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty or permit inspections.”
Yet they have never, ever used them against any Arab nation or peoples, Israel does not advocate their destruction, unlike Iran who has an official policy to destroy Israel and states that policy often. Always remember this: If the Arab nations disarmed, Israel would live in peace with them. If Israel disarmed the Arab nations would wipe them out. Who is really the tolerant one?
In a scientific debate, when one side starts demanding that the other side be forcibly silenced by the state we can reasonably state that they know that they do not have the facts on their side. You might say that this is a political debate and not really science … and I would agree … but the same thing holds for politics too.
The alarmists have been beaten, but it was not Watts or anyone else. It was mother nature what done it! All we had to do was keep pointing out the facts.
Adam Weinstein calls for collective based social force against a person who disagrees with his thinking.
We’ve seen this before in every collectivist ideology where a group’s thoughts are placed morally above independent individual thoughts. The socialized mode of implementing the collective by force will be the result. Socialized force against individual thought is not a benign process and festers into hate.
John
Khwarizmi
March 30, 2014 at 2:32 pm
says:
‘TomJ,
According to every U.S. intelligence agency, Iran isn’t trying to build nuclear weapons.’
You wouldn’t happen to be talking about the same US intelligence agencies that said Putin was only massing his troops outside Crimea, not because they had any intention of going in, but because, well, who knows? Moreover, do you know precisely how many intelligence agencies there are in the US ’cause if you don’t you can’t possibly claim that “every” one of them claims Iran isn’t trying to build nukes. I don’t think even the intelligence agencies know how many intelligence agencies there are. Here’s a partial list: CIA, FBI, Dept of State, Dept of Treasury, DOE, NSA, Naval Intelligence, Air Force Intelligence, Army Intelligence… Now, don’t for a second expect me to believe they all agree.
You don’t know very much about the US do you?
Now, I’ll admit I don’t know much about Iran. I do know that Barack Obama’s most trusted advisor, Valerie Jarrett, was born there. So, that’s at least one thing I know about “moderate and tolerant Iran” that you probably don’t. One thing I’m curious about, though, is why no one can seem to find a gay bar, hell, any kinda’ bar in tolerant Teheran, and why do they execute prostitutes? Seems a little harsh to me.
Also in the unbelievable nonsense column.
According to CNN, a Boeing 777 Jumbo jet has trouble maintaining its altitude, without fuel in its tanks !
Who would have guessed.
I have to disagree that skeptics have won the debate because of the current pause. Soon the temperature will change. It will go down or it will go up, but it won’t stay the same for long. If it goes up alarmist will say the debate is over and we’ve wasted enough time. If it goes down, no problem…alarmist will point out we need to act now. We can’t wait for rising temps to convince everyone. Too much at stake.
Why in today’s paper, in the Earthweek section, we learn that “the head of the UN’s weather agency says that global warming has not stoped and will continue for at least centuries due to the burning of fossil fuels by humans. Michel Jarraud made the pronouncement as he presented the World Meteorological Organization’s annual review of the world’s climate. The report concludes that last year tied with 2007 as the sixth hottest since reliable records began over 150 years ago. It also says that 13 of the 14 warmest years on record have occurred in this century…The laws of physics are non-negotiable, Jarraud told a news conference.” Nuff said.
Robert Bissett, Bs.Arch. Naples, Idaho 83847 Artist, Author, Blogger, Teacher Dragon Speed Design Group Latest books: Tornado! – paperback Tornado! – Kindle Real Working Drawingsand Real Art, Real Easy Fine Art Prints, Matting, Frames Sometimes a Daily Painting Blog Award Winning Art Custom House Plans, Dome Specialist
On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Watts Up With That? wrote:
> george e. smith commented: “Also in the unbelievable nonsense column. > According to CNN, a Boeing 777 Jumbo jet has trouble maintaining its > altitude, without fuel in its tanks ! Who would have guessed.” >
[snip – fake email address: me@hotmali.com and a GHG rant likely from Doug Cotton based on word analysis and ip location – mod]
@ladylifegrows, You touched on a very real thing regarding water depletion. One fact is that the water level of some of the Great Lakes (upstream of the River St Claire) have shown a marked lowering in the past decade or so, this of course blamed on CAGW , desertification of the great lakes vast watershed, alas, though there has been dry spells regionally, it was not concomitant with the actual water loss. What was discovered a few years ago was that the River St Claire was in fact dredged to make the Sea Way (aka St. Lawrence River Sea Way) wider and deeper so that bigger ships and barges could navigate the passages. There was a study (I am sure can be googled) that describes the increased outflow of the River St Claire to be vastly more than the engineers calculated, as the after effect of the said dredging acted as a venturie , speeding up the river and thus self dredging the channel deeper and wider after all the equipment was gone. All this extra water flowing over Niagra Falls and to the sea eventually. Result, Lake Michigan some ten plus feet lower. I think there has been some mitigation work done to slow the erosion but I am not certain.
Another claim is that rain is falling with greater amounts faster than in the past, that silt is invading the NYC water supplies at increasing rates due to increased storm intensity. So the claim is increased CO2 in the atmosphere leads to both desertification and intensified rains. Granted the hurricanes Irene and Sandy and the few other ones that impacted my region certainly caused troubles, yet there was and always will be very large tropical storms running up the coast. I used to listen to old timers talk about the flood of 1955, or the hurricanes of the 1930’s or the Catskills getting 30 ft of snow in a winter. If anything we have been blessed this last century with remarkably stable weather all things considered. I like you comment, Right on.
Likely scenerio:
There is likely an El-Nino coming.
This will cause temporary warming.
The warmists will scream “see, the warming was just hiding!”
“So we must DO something or we are all gonna DIIIIIE!”
“And anyone who speaks out against that is EEEEEEVIL!”
And then they will make a quick grab for power, try to get it before the warmth goes away, which it will.
If they succeed in getting enough power, they will then start acting on these pronouncements.
You will know that when this website suddently dissapears.
This is possible because our “if you like your health care plan…” president is trying to “fix” the non broken internet by transferring power over it to an international group.
For what an international group would be like, see the UN, and it’s IPCC.
If they fail to do that, the cold will return, and with both the Pacific and Atlantic in “cold phase”, colder than ever.
They will then lose.
They know this.
Given:
“All true socialists oppose tyranny… .” Richard Courtney, 1:38pm, today.
Conclusion:
Then “all true socialists” are ignorant, emotionally blinded, dupes of those who cynically use them.
Such a naive remark reveals an astonishing ignorance of:
1. Historical record: See the carefully controlled, highly planned, real life, experiments in socialism (i.e., the government instead of the free market controlling the economy) in: China, Russia, Cuba, Zimbabwe, for instance. The British Commonwealth’s and the United States’ experiments have been prevented from running their full course. It is pure cultural arrogance to assume that the end result would be any different were the forces of Liberty to step back and let the English-speaking world’s experiments progress to their conclusion.
2. Evidence from experts on socialism such as: Friedrich Hayek and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
3. Evidence from thousands of eyewitnesses to real world socialism’s
inevitable result: tyranny
(See movie “The Killing Fields” for one documentary example; or go to any Cuban-American or Ukrainian-American community and talk to hundreds of people who will tell you what socialism is really all about.).
4. And, since R.C. has often characterized himself as a “Christian socialist,”
the Bible. Socialism is a direct contradiction of God’s clear mandate against coerced charity and of other free market principles supported by the Bible. See, e.g.,
1) Matthew 20:13-15: (1) Liberty of contract (“didn’t you agree?”); (2) Private property (“do what I like with my money”); and (3) Envy = root of Socialist theory (“are you envious…?”); and
2) II. Corinthians 9:7 “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”
SOCIALISM (LIKE AGW) IS NOT ABOUT CHARITY (OR SCIENCE),
SOCIALISM AND AGW ARE ABOUT: CONTROL.
This is Socialism
In the end, socialism must be enforced out of the barrel of a gun.
THE FUTURE LOOKS BRIGHT, however, for, as long as we have heroes like An-tho-ny Watts and Christopher Monckton and truth tellers like Robert in Calgary and davidmhoffer speaking out and standing firm for free markets and Liberty and true science,
TRUTH — WILL — WIN!
(and it is!)
******************************************************
******************************************************
A commenter above whom I admire in all other respects asserted a false moral equivalency above which I address here:
Den1ers of the historical fact of the Nah-z1 ho1ocaust
ARE NOT THE MORAL EQUIVALENT OF
Den1ers of the science l1es of Environah-z1sm.
Gunga Din had it right. (at 10:50am today) Those who would falsely label truth-in-science people with the same label (“den1er”) accurately given to those who deny the fact of the Ho1ocaust are now advocating treating the truth tellers about science NOT like those in Germany whose freedom of speech to deny the fact of the Ho1ocaust is restricted, but, like the VICTIMS, the Jews, et. al., of that Ho1ocaust.
It’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye. Actually it’s quite depressing. The Inquisition is back, only this time it isn’t the Catholics (no offense intended, I’m one myself), it’s the Church of Leftism, and the sacrament is Global Warming. Has there really been any “progress” over the last thousand years? In technology, definitely, but in the nature of human behavior – no, not at all. False ideas are as likely to prevail as not, only to be replaced in time by other false ideas. People are as ignorant and uneducated as ever, and more so than a century ago. We’re just as gullible, and just as prone to tribalism and emotional appeals. Lately I’ve come to believe that humans have reached the limits of our intellectual ability to understand the universe, both on the cosmic scale and on the scale of our own selves. Until natural selection can again play a positive role in our evolution, and a chance mutation that enhances intellectual ability somehow spreads through the population (today it would likely be forcibly snuffed out in the name of “equality”), we’re stuck shuffling about from one tragic situation to another as the climate inevitably cools into the next 100,000 year long glacial. Damn.
“It’s time to punish the climate change liars”. Yes, it is. And we know who the real liars are; those pushing the biggest lie in history; that of manmade warming/climate change. We should consider the gravity of their crimes against humanity and the appropriate punishments, for they are enormous, and have had deadly consequences.
– – – – – – –
Robert in Calgary,
He, like everyone on this venue, does not get his way.
Although I am often intellectually opposed to him, neither of us (or any other commenter) has the ability to get our way on this venue. We just keep on reasoning with our best intellectual ability.
Please keep on reasoning.
John
“””””…..Khwarizmi says:
March 30, 2014 at 2:32 pm
TomJ,
According to every U.S. intelligence agency, Iran isn’t trying to build nuclear weapons.
So why are you catapulting NeoCon propaganda to the contrary?
Israel has 100s of nukes—and unlike moderate and tolerant Iran—refuses, to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty or permit inspections.
Remember the U.S.S. Liberty……”””””
I do believe, that those same US intelligence agencies, assert that Iran has not yet produced enough weapons grade Uranium, to build a single nuclear weapon.
So tiny Israel, not much bigger than New York’s Central Park, has built “hundreds of nuclear weapons”.
And why is it that Iran; which purportedly only wants to produce clean nuclear electricity, has yet to construct a single power plant. Are they that inept, or what ??
NO nation on this planet, that is known to have nuclear weapons permits inspections; so why do you single out Israel to chastise for keeping theirs securely hidden. I would think that any sensible non proliferation treaty, would require those who have them to keep them away from prying eyes.
davidmhoffer says…..
…”You can learn a lot about both science and socialism and the roots of the CAGW meme if you listen to him with an open mind instead of rejecting and attacking him out of hand.”
David, the only thing I’m “rejecting and attacking” Richard over is his penchant for tantrums when folks don’t describe Socialism in the angelic (and unrealistic) way he sees it.
Perhaps it’s Richard who needs to open his mind and learn a few things.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100260720/whenever-you-mention-fascisms-socialist-roots-left-wingers-become-incandescent-why/
regards,
@DirkH – “When you’re getting a lot of Flak it means you’re over the target.”
Bingo! I wonder how they intend to imprison Gaia. Maybe mine the moon for all its minerals?
Stupid comment from layman. HOW in God’s name can a model be used to forecast 20-50 yrs out when our current collection of models go below 50% success after 7 days more or less. This is absurd. Put me in jail. I’m ready.
I love to see that graph!
Mod: Please remove all after ‘Nuff said.’
Robert in Calgary;
David, the only thing I’m “rejecting and attacking” Richard over is his penchant for tantrums when folks don’t describe Socialism in the angelic (and unrealistic) way he sees it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
He objects strenuously when accusations are made against socialism which are unfair, and rightfully so. If he does so rudely, that changes the validity of his objections by precisely nothing. You and others assign 100% of the responsibility for the CAGW meme to socialism which he also strenuously objects to, and with good reason. Again, rude or not, he is entirely correct on this matter. If you excoriate the forces on the left which have worked hard to perpetrate the CAGW hoax, by all means do so. But excoriate also those on the right who have done as much or more (I would argue more) to perpetrate that same hoax.
The climate kooks do not realize that they are the ones who would be indicted, tried and convicted if there were trials for lying about the climate. Pen State, indeed. Irony, thy name is AGW fanaticism.
Hi Richard Courtney glad to see you back.
Those equating socialism with parasitism, need to consider this, parasites use whatever cover works.Especially idealist do-gooder philosophies.
Are Canadian Liberals liberal?
Do the US Democratic party have any interest in democracy?
Does the United Nations, do anything to unite nations?
Other than in poverty.
What we have, in the attempt to tax air by an unelected, unaccountable agency is not political or even ideological really, it is entrenched parasites trying to make their foul activities official.
Welcome to the world wide kleptocracy.
When you follow the money, CAGW is created by, promoted by and is now being protected from investigation by, our bureaucracies.
I think of it as an intelligence test.
These fools and bandits fell for the bait and are now exposed for what they are.
Of zero( massively negative?) benefit to taxpayers.
Hey, socialism ain’t that bad. Jonestown actually worked. Except for when the leader went nuts in the end. But that’s a risk with all centralized systems.
There is little difference between communism and socialism, accept in democratic countries we can vote a socialist government out! Now North Korea are threatening setting off a nuclear device, so I wonder if they do something wrong they will blow themselves up? Next question?
– – – – – – – –
davidmhoffer,
Step back a moment.
What is the single necessary fundamental quasi-moral concept at the essential root of all historical and current socialism?
And also, what is the single necessary fundamental moral concept at the essential root of the political ideology supported by the IPCC bureau to fight CAGW?
I think the two fundamental concepts at the root of both are the same.
Individualism based politics does not share the concept.
Collectivism is the shared root concept of both socialism all political ideology of the IPCC bureau.
Show me any gov’t or UN org (like the IPCC) that uses collectivism as it quasi-moral justifications for it actions then it is socialist no matter what it called itself or its PR says.
John
These people are pathetic and acting like some fervent fanatic who tells us we will not go to heaven, because we believe in the devil. Some people can not handle being shown up and their ideologies looking very dumb. I believe in climate change, who doesn’t but the causation factors are so silly and inaccurate, when the temps drop they wonder what is wrong. It’s bleedin’ winter mate.
I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine,……
I have always found it appalling that anyone tries to link a view on science with left or right wing views. To do so is anti science because science is about establishing objective truth not about personal value judgements or seeking political ends.
When people mix science and politics they get organisations like the IPCC which distort the objectives of science.
This forum should, and as far as aware does, welcome the opinions of everyone whatever their politics, as long as they are willing to put those political opinions in the cupboard and enter into the debate with a free mind. As soon as the opinions become tied to a political objective, or for that matter commercial or personal objective, the science becomes compromised.
On science their can be no left or right wing view. I write as a non scientist so please correct me if I am wrong in my beliefs.
I am Spartacus.
Rejoice! The climate alarmists have confessed that they have no case. Their science has failed, and all they have left is insult. Skepticism has triumphed.
Julian I know you are correct, but in this case, there is an element of political influence. And theirs is a dangerous ideology. Threatening people even libelling them who have the right to show alarmists have manipulated the data and scientific facts, are not playing the game at all.
Shades of historical figures such as the Nazis. Comparing skeptics with holocaust deniers is scandalous. Academics do not like being challenged, and if you dare to, watch out if you are attending the same university!
Julian in Wales on March 30, 2014 at 6:14 pm
– – – – – – – – – –
Julian in Wales,
One engages in the dialog on climate science as the context is given. If it includes as an initial condition a mix of epistemology, metaphysics, ethics, politics, science and fiction then so be it. One should not intellectually avoid the context initiated.
John
Tom J says:
March 30, 2014
Now, I’ll admit I don’t know much about Iran. I do know that Barack Obama’s most trusted advisor, Valerie Jarrett, was born there. So, that’s at least one thing I know about “moderate and tolerant Iran” that you probably don’t. One thing I’m curious about, though, is why no one can seem to find a gay bar, hell, any kinda’ bar in tolerant Teheran, and why do they execute prostitutes? Seems a little harsh to me.
You have to remember: according to the midget in the Members Only jacket, there are no gays in Iran.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/07/iran-executes-men-homosexuality-charges
They’d lynch Atticus Finch?
Bushbunny – I agree their are lots of very dangerous politicos out their attaching science to their particular creed. What I am objecting to are the blanket assumptions that this or that view on science is right wing or left wing, because it is impossible to to attach views to science, because as soon as you do that the science is compromised and becomes politics.
I can see there are argument to suggest that left wing people like science that reinforces collective utopian aims, and right wing people like science that emphasises the independent of the individual. That is obviously going to happen, but only to people who refuse to put their politics in the cupboard before they enter a debate- such as posting on a forum like this one.
There are all sorts of people with all sorts of views that have useful things to add to the debate. The debate has a better opportunity of reaching objective conclusions if the posters do not ascribe viewpoints to either their own, or their opponents political beliefs
It could be that Adam Weinstein has a poor following and he is trying to juice his stats at Gawker by putting out intentionally offensive click-bait articles.
Nevertheless, he could argue for reintroduction of literacy tests for voters, banned by the Civil Rights Act (I think) to achieve the same results.
Adam Weinstein has had the luxury of forming his opinions and positions on these topics by taking in information and dis-information from all sides. He doesn’t think “deniers” are very dangerous to intelligent people like himself. Clearly, Weinstein does not share Rush Limbaugh’s opinion on global warming, even though he has been exposed to Limbaugh’s rants. It’s not the smart people that Weinstein is worried about – it’s all the dumb people, who might be exposed to the same ideas and come away with the wrong opinions. And those dumb people might exercise their rights to vote and/or to endorse the wrong political agendas. So just stop dumb people from voting!
What’s the difference? Squelch the opposition by arresting them, or prevent the people who might vote for the opposition from exercising their right to do so. Same thing.
It’s a dangerous, dangerous thing when people start talking this way. It shouldn’t be taken too lightly. I would suggest that Adam Weinstein should be arrested for advocating such ideas, but then … !
Skepticism always wins, eventually. Those brave souls who stood up to the popularity of eugenics were proven right. And eugenics got much further along in the ‘advanced’ countries before people were disgusted with it enough to force the eugenics believers to change their tunes.
richardscourtney says:
March 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm
“All true socialists oppose tyranny and many of us oppose the AGW scare…”
So, you’re telling me I’ve found a socialist who does not support AGW theory. Kinda’ lonesome out there, isn’t it?
[trimmed]
Khwarizmi says:
March 30, 2014 at 8:31 pm
Unfortunately, I don’t have a selective MEMRI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You began by characterizing Iran as both moderate and tolerant. You then proceeded to use an obscure accident (over 40 years ago) that occurred in a war zone during a war that both countries involved have concluded was a terrible mistake and have been close allies ever since to disparage Israel.
Then you accuse me of propaganda and selective memory?
Sorry bud, you’re credibility is shot to pieces. You’ve been exposed for what you are.
mods – the link in
Khwarizmi says:
March 30, 2014 at 8:31 pm
is a link to a very clever hate and smear site.
The claim that this P.O.S makes is that he worked at this place. Even a couple of minutes into the video it is already clear that this place doesn’t exist, and the whole video is staged.
Stand and be counted.
“Ich bin ein Denier!”
I deny that Anthropomorphic Global Warming has any significant impact on climate.
I deny that Global Climate Change has a net negative impact on life on Earth.
I deny that Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere is a pollutant.
I deny that alternative energy sources have Socialist solutions.
I deny that any Science is Settled.
I deny that those funded by Politicians seek Scientific truth.
Anyone arrested on a charge of “climate change denial” should expect a kangaroo court, burden of proof on the defense, and rational argument of facts as evidence of guilt. Jurisprudence as exists under the US Constitution or British Magna Carta will not apply. Defend yourself accordingly.
“hunter says:
March 30, 2014 at 7:35 pm
Skepticism always wins, eventually. Those brave souls who stood up to the popularity of eugenics were proven right. And eugenics got much further along in the ‘advanced’ countries before people were disgusted with it enough to force the eugenics believers to change their tunes.”
They may have changed their tune, but they’re still singing – Planned Parenthood, et. al. Look up
Bill Gates Sr. for more on that. On another front, Soviet Russia was supposed to have fallen, but it looks like the bear may (sadly…) be coming out of hibernation.
As with CAGW, it never was about the science, it was (and is) about CONTROL, and making sure that there aren’t too many of the “wrong kind of people”. They don’t mind if a lot of people starve, die, go broke, whatever, as long as it isn’t them. The original NIMBYs…
Eternal vigilance is needed in the face of these greedy elitists – stop them one place, they pop up somewhere else (kind of like that arcade game with the prairie dogs or whatnot). The brainwashing in the media and the schools needs to be countered….persistently….
davidmhoffer,
the video that you asked to have censored was made in ISRAEL by ISRAELI JEWS.
It was not, as you grotesquely misrepresented it, a “hate site.”
I worked at a Jewish school here in Melbourne for the past 4 years (DEMONSTRABLE FACT, BUDDY), and the “hope kindergarten” parody in HEBREW with English subtitles made by JEWS in ISREAL was just as I remember the environment I worked in, thank you very much. (It appears briefly in this Australian Broadcasting Corporation documentary, incidentally)
Second time I’ve seen you successfully demand that simple truths be censored in the interests of your tribe.
Robert in Calgary, highflight56433 and Janice Moore:
Re your posts at March 30, 2014 at 1:52 pm, March 30, 2014 at 2:33 pm and March 30, 2014 at 4:37 pm, respectively.
ALL hate speech is despicable. That which you provide is NOT an exception.
And a lie is not converted into truth by your asserting it.
The AGW scare needs to be opposed because it is harmful.
The harmful scare is promoted by totalitarians across the entire political spectrum. Your false claim that the scare is a left-wing plot assists right-wingers promoting the scare. It seems that you you are more concerned to falsely smear the political left than to oppose the false AGW scare.
Yes, there have been evil left-wing people and regimes. There have also been evil right-wing people and regimes. It is a logical fallacy to argue the general from the specific.
The AGW scare is NOT a left-wing construct.
It was initiated by the right-wing Margaret Thatcher and is being used by totalitarians of all political stripes. And it is supported by ALL the main-stream UK political parties (including Thatcher’s).
As always happens whenever hate speech is raised on WUWT, this thread has been hijacked by people promoting right-wing hate speech. And those making the despicable remarks have taken to asserting that it is impolite to object to the hate!.
RichardRobert in Calgary, highflight56433 and Janice Moore:
Re your posts at March 30, 2014 at 1:52 pm, March 30, 2014 at 2:33 pm and March 30, 2014 at 4:37 pm, respectively.
ALL hate speech is despicable. That which you provide is NOT an exception.
And a lie is not converted into truth by your asserting it.
The AGW scare needs to be opposed because it is harmful.
The harmful scare is promoted by totalitarians across the entire political spectrum. Your false claim that the scare is a left-wing plot assists right-wingers promoting the scare. It seems that you you are more concerned to falsely smear the political left than to oppose the false AGW scare.
Yes, there have been evil left-wing people and regimes. There have also been evil right-wing people and regimes. It is a logical fallacy to argue the general from the specific.
The AGW scare is NOT a left-wing construct.
It was initiated by the right-wing Margaret Thatcher and is being used by totalitarians of all political stripes. And it is supported by ALL the main-stream UK political parties (including Thatcher’s).
As always happens whenever hate speech is raised on WUWT, this thread has been hijacked by people promoting right-wing hate speech. And those making the despicable remarks have taken to asserting that it is impolite to object to the hate!
Richard
Mods:
My post at March 31, 2014 at 1:51 am is awaiting moderation.
For some reason, it has duplicated. I would be grateful if you were to delete the duplication when you release it from moderation.
Richard
Claude Harvey:
At March 30, 2014 at 7:44 pm you ask me
Yes, you have “found” one of the many who are not “lonely”.
There are as many (possibly more) socialists who oppose the AGW scare that there are capitalists who oppose it. And there are certainly many more capitalists who promote the AGW scare than there are socialists who promote it.
Your ignorance and your prejudice are both showing.
Richard
so what one of the scaremongering warmist crew is going to take responsibilty for the young couple that suicided and killed their child as well due to fears of warming?
or the little old lady in the uk planning to euthanase her dog, before herself, because she didnt want him to suffer in the unbearable heat etc she was convinced was going to happen real soon>
terrified emotionally unbalanced kids from pure shite! handed out in schools and targeting kids?
Socialism works only on a small scale, such as the average family unit. The adults work to bring in the necessary funds to provide for the family, the young help out with chores and other non economic contributions. It works because they all have the same motivations and goals. Socialism breaks down as groups get larger because the motivations and goals diverge and individual groups no longer agree on what goals should take priority and how to accomplish those goals economically. That situation requires those in charge to dictate those priorities and force them on all others. In a small group or family if one does not agree with these priorities or goals they can simply leave. However, on a much larger scale such as the state or national level it may be impossible to leave and one is stuck with the consequences that are they are then forced to endure. The Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, is a prime example of what is wrong with socialism. One requirement of the Act is that all female coverages, regardless of age or condition, must provide maternity benefits and of course all females must pay for that coverage whether they need it or not. The reason is so that the cost for females who will actually use the maternity benefits will be affordable. Another part of the Act is the subsidization of younger peoples premiums by older people. This is again a forced requirement of older people to keep costs down for those younger. There are other such conditions, deemed minimum policy benefits and costs, that the Act requires people to pay for whether they need them or not. Individual freedoms and choices get trampled under the guise of “for the good of all”. By the way, for those who may not know, two conditions of the Affordable Care Act that are never discussed are policy restrictions and exclusions, and the huge deductibles. As people start to use the policies and see how much their healthcare is really going to cost, they will then find out the hard way how they have been duped into allowing a very bad law to be put into place.
That music professor in Austria, who said that all “deniers” should be executed as murderers, still has his job. He is still teaching.
Re:richardscourtney says:
March 31, 2014 at 2:16 am
“There are as many (possibly more) socialists who oppose the AGW scare that there are capitalists who oppose it. And there are certainly many more capitalists who promote the AGW scare than there are socialists who promote it.”
You’ve quit taking your meds again, haven’t you Richard?
Richard Courtney says,
“And a lie is not converted into truth by your asserting it.”
And there you go again. Are you the only person who tells the truth and only the whole truth?
Tap dancing, nit picking, winding interpretations and assumptions. It’s all…silly.
http://www.thegwpf.org/margaret-thatcher-climate-sceptic/
Does the quasi-morality of collectivism (arguably the single essential root of political socialism and of the IPCC’s political ideology used to try prevent imagined CAGW) lead necessarily to the kind of intolerance we see (in the lead post) of a collective toward independent individuals; where the intolerance is vented as hate speech? I think it does follow reasonably.
Does it take that kind of hate on a quasi-moralistic collective level to explain the unprecedented atrocities commited by collectivist (socialist) governments in the 20th century? I think it does follow logically.
There is a pre climate change era graphic I have in my files somewhere from the late ’80s or early ’90s that shows the horrific accumulated death toll from those unprecedented atrocities by collectivized (socialized) governments on their own citizens. I need to try to find it in the near future.
John
Khwarizmi says:
March 31, 2014 at 12:06 am
davidmhoffer,
the video that you asked to have censored was made in ISRAEL by ISRAELI JEWS.
It was not, as you grotesquely misrepresented it, a “hate site.”
I worked at a Jewish school here in Melbourne for the past 4 years (DEMONSTRABLE FACT, BUDDY), and the “hope kindergarten” parody in HEBREW with English subtitles made by JEWS in ISREAL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ah, so you admit that you didn’t work at the school as you claimed. In fact the school doesn’t even exist as you claimed. You now admit that it is a parody, but insist it was “just like” the actual school that you actually worked at. Having lied twice in succession about the whole thing, I’m unlikely to take your now “adjusted” claim at face value.
As for the video being done by Jews in Israel, yes, there are Jews active in the creation of hate and smear material who sill stoop so low as to use children to do it. Which changes the fact that it is hate and smear material that abuses children to be created, nor does it change the lies you told about it being a real school that you worked at.
But your real agenda becomes clear here:
Second time I’ve seen you successfully demand that simple truths be censored in the interests of your tribe.
So there it is. You now try to attack me on the basis of what tribe I belong to. Can’t make the case on the facts, stand exposed for having lied about them, made the incredulous claim that Iran is a moderate and tolerant country, and having been thwarted in all of that, you turn to calling me out as a Jew.
You’re just a hater who masquerades his hate in the guise of criticism of Israel, and when he fails, lashes out at Jews.
Which changes the fact that it is hate and smear material that abuses children to be created
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Which ,i> doesn’t change the fact that it is hate and smear material that abuses children to be created
Which doesn’t change the fact that it is hate and smear material that abuses children to be created
@Robert Bisset
Listed as new mental illnesses are above-average creativity and cynicism.
I can find articles referencing this, but I can’t find anything in the actual DSM that indicates this. Do you have any further information?
Folks, as far as hate videos, etc. go, you need look no farther than 350.org (I think that’s it) and
their vid with kids in it….pure appeal to emotion, not thought.
The “pick-your-disaster-of-the-day”, be it CAGW, politics, water supply, favorite team scandal
(now we get Hoeness over here, wonder what’s next…) is just there to scare folks into giving
up their hard-earned money….
As to left or right (or one of the 15 or so parties in Italy!), it doesn’t matter – as long as we’re fighting amongst ourselves, we won’t dig deeper to see who’s pulling all the strings, or, as was said much better a while back, “follow the money”….
Thatcher (and the governments/elite/”mandarins” today) was/are only doing what they’re told, er, advised….have a look at the European Parliament (elected) versus the European Commission (unelected)…the real power exists in the European Commission, NOT the elected body.
Take a look at the meetings of the World Economic Forum in Davos (www.wef.org) and youl’ll see from where the strings are being pulled…time to light a bunch of candles in the dark, so to speak, and point them in the right direction to expose what’s really going on…let’s quit bickering and get on
with exposing the truth….
It is difficult for me to believe the author (Adam Weinstein) is as stupid as this statement makes him appear. Jail time for blocking public policies, if someone deems the public policies necessary to avoid contributing to somebody’s death? Shall we put the U.S. Democratic Party and associated apparatus in jail for blocking all efforts to get U.S. spending and borrowing under control?
Making the support of or opposition to public policies a criminal offence contradicts, with the direct crudeness of the imbecile, the basic premise of a democratic society.
I don’t think anyone is truly this stupid. I believe rubbish like this is posted merely to irritate and annoy rational people.
Mark Bofill says:
I don’t think anyone is truly this stupid. I believe rubbish like this is posted merely to irritate and annoy rational people.
No – far too many believe so strongly that they are right that they truly, deeply, believe that those who oppose them are intentionally evil and cruel, and should be punished. I’ve encountered far too much of it to reach your conclusion.
As I see more of this, it seems to me the true believers are getting more and more agitated – I fear the results if it continues.
Their God has not manifest.
David the Censor for Zion, said:
Ah, so you admit that you didn’t work at the school as you claimed
=========
Easy for you to tell such brazen hategful lies after imposing censorship, you “P.O.S.”
Your people dehumanize PAlestinains in the same way you dehumanized =me and censored my facts.
I said I worked at a hope kindergarten in Australia, not the accurate parody of one from the sketch made and broadcast in Isreal.
Don’t you have any shame?
I have a copy of my post that you had censored.
Is the moderator going to apologize for censoring the entirety of my post on the basis of David’s warped and hate-filled misrepresentation?
A shameless little man with a diseased conscience and an infinite supply of vanity demanded that my post be censored.
An invigilator obeyed the order.
Why?
David recited the Kol Nidre and then lied…
Ah, so you admit that you didn’t work at the school as you claimed
=========
No, I didn’t claim I worked at the fictional school in the Israeli broadcast television parody.
I said I previously worked at, quote, ” a hope kindergarten in Australia.”
That’s what my censored post said, verbatim. I still have a copy.
Don’t you have any shame, “P.O.S.”?
Is “POS” acceptable parlance in conformity with site policy, btw?
Or is it a kosher kind of hate speech?
Khwarizmi says:
March 31, 2014 at 12:56 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I’m shameless? Who is the one posting anonymously? Who is the one who is now resorting to nothing but ad hominem attacks?
LOL.
Jeff:
In your post at March 31, 2014 at 8:39 am you write
YES!
The desire of some to pretend the AGW scare is a left-wing plot implies they are a ‘fifth column’ trying to induce “fighting amongst ourselves”.
The AGW scare is promoted by people across the political spectrum and mostly from the right.
And it is opposed by other people from across the political spectrum.
Supporters of the scare find any excuse to revile opponents of the scare.
Richard
Robert in Calgary:
re your untrue propaganda in your post at March 31, 2014 at 6:47 am.
Thatcher started the AGW scare for reasons of personal political advancement.
My analysis predicted the AGW scare would occur.
I linked to that analysis with explanation of it and its origin in my post at March 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm which is here
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/03/30/hate-week-on-the-climate-certainty-channel/#comment-1601780
The anti-left propaganda of you and others in this thread is ridiculous.
Richard
@Khwarizmi and others going back and forth: this is a post ABOUT hate, with regard to climate skepticism and true science, not FOR hate. Please, if you want to, erm, discuss politics, there are TONS of fora devoted to that….there’s already more than enough hate to go around, let’s quit adding fuel (CO2-producing or not) to the fire…
A former colleague of mine would probably have said “PUT A SOCK IN IT!!!”, but I’ll just say, we need to deal with the CAGW nuts…they’re enough for now. And, if you need something else to worry about, there’s always “hairdo” in North Korea who’s threatening to use another, very uneconomical, form of nuclear power….
thanks
P.S. As regards to nuts, I prefer salted, with a high proportion of Cashews…unfortunately, what is usually sold is what we the ordinary people usually get….peanuts….
“richardscourtney says:
March 31, 2014 at 2:04 pm ”
Hi Richard,
thanks…I don’t think it matters if it’s left, right, center, shortstop, or whatever (hey, if Italy can have a pornstar [Ciccolino?] and Berlusconi, there’s LOT’s of viewpoints out there) (and, I’m not picking on Italy, I’m just thinking about the, erm, Photoshopped inauguration pics going around the net after their latest elections – we all have our colorful politicos and papers, etc.). WHAT DOES MATTER is governments (kings, rulers, elites, what-have-you) all seem to focus on “I see that money in your pocket/bank account/house/farm/etc. and I WANT IT”.
Money transfer. Reverse Robin-Hood. “Redistribution of Wealth”. THAT is the real problem, not what the purported political point-of-view-source is. Because the real Mannipulators are “above” (in their view) nations and politics….and until WE realize it, we will remain their fealty…..
(fealty towers?)
The labels/names of left-vs-right, conservative-vs-liberal and socialist-vs-capitalist are too emotive and imprecise in dealing with the fundamental core issue in the lead post of ‘consensus’ hate toward independent thinkers in climate science dialogs.
A more precise and less emotive alternative follows. The core issue at hand in the lead post is the hatred collectivists must, by their own quasi-morality, have for the independent (of the collective) individualists who dare to publicly criticize/refute the collective’s claims, values and actions. That hatred is exhibited by Adam Weinstein and Lawrence Torcello in the lead post; who in turn support hatred exhibited by collectivist CAGW exaggerators and activists within the science community; who in turn are supporting the quasi-governmental IPCC bureau.
Corollary => It is a parallel but important discussion that socialism necessarily has a quasi-moral collectivist basis and consistently portrays collective public hatred leading to public expressions of mass collective violence on its own citizens. Sadly, such expressions have frequently been implemented by collectivists in the 20th century.
John
Interesting about the JDL posture. Perhaps if they saw it this way (snark): Sure the CO2s may not be a problem but can civilization afford to take that chance? We need a Final Solution to the CO2-ish problem.
and yes, I am part CO2-ish
Depends if the book is consider non fiction, academic, fiction, creative factual, etc. Has anyone read ‘Mien Kampf” (excuse spelling) I remember requesting if they had a copy in the Dixon library at UNE (Armidale) and the librarian couldn’t find it. “Impossible”, I replied, ” it’s a classic by Adolf Hitler” ‘Oh dear, I’ve been looking under ‘My Camp”. I did get through the first chapter, but you could tell it was the ravings of a bigot and worse. But he impressed the Germans didn’t he? Anyone who went against him, disappeared or worse. Do you think there are similarities with these alarmist group, who wish we never existed?
‘snarkmania says:
March 31, 2014 at 5:19 pm
… “but can civilization afford to take that chance?”…’
Don’t mean to feed a troll here, but the precautionary principle is no reason to dump TRILLIONS of
dollars/euros/pesos/you-name-it down the plughole for something that has neither been proven nor
presented with data that is falsify-able (or not, as the case may be)….
Adaption to various severe climate changes costs money. And I agree they were spending trillions on the wrong predictions. For all those who put money into carbon credits, green energy etc., are going to lose theirs. It was funny that Tivula that little island group that cried at the Copenhagen COP that they were in danger of sinking. They didn’t apply for help as they found the documents too difficult. Hence they missed out on funding from the UNCCF. I wonder why?
“bushbunny says:
March 31, 2014 at 7:37 pm”
Actually, no, Germans weren’t that impressed. When the first volume was published it was a flop, like his art/paintings. Even the second volume didn’t sell well initially. It was not until after he came to power that the book became “nationalised” (I can’t think of a better way to describe it) and was compulsory reading by all and became a “success”.
The precautionary principle would clearly advise you to turn off your computer & disconnect your house from the grid & hopefully either freeze to death or starve.
You are correct of course, but I couldn’t finish reading it. It rambled. But he blamed the Jews for everything, no doubt the weather too.
John Whitman:
re the silly, utrue and wicked prejudice expressed by you in your post at March 31, 2014 at 3:33 pm.
Please read the post (adjacent to your drivel) by Jeff at March 31, 2014 at 2:53 pm and try to learn from it.
Richard
– – – – – – – – –
richardscourtney,
I will be happy to address Jeff at March 31, 2014 at 2:53 pm if he directs a comment to me with specific points. I await Jeff’s commentary on my last comment (John Whitman on March 31, 2014 at 3:33 pm).
Do you have specific points instead of your namecalling? {NOTE: your namecalling was: silly, wicked, drivel, . . . }
I will take your comment to me as an opportunity to add to my comment at March 31, 2014 at 3:33 pm. When I discussed the hatred discussed in the lead post, the reason I used the term ‘quasi-morality’ wrt collectivism is that collectivism is a bridge concept between ethics and politics; it is not a purely ethics concept. To complete an analysis of why collectives evolve hatred for individualists we need to step into the question of what pure ethics concept supports a collective’s urge to violate the sovereignty of an individual life where that urge gives birth to the expression of hatred by the collective toward individuals.
John
[trimmed. Mod]
Lets stop this political argument regarding socialism. Communism is so outdated even by Russia, and look what’s happened to them. If the majority of people in a country are poor and uneducated, they will obviously exchange their ideology to embrace communism to get bread and rob the rich of their luxuries.
Don’t confuse socialism that has in the past been good for the people well in UK anyway. National Health Service for one and welfare for the disadvantaged. But we now have the ALP or New Labor who have moderated their stance and no longer fly the red flag.
It’s the Green political movement in Australia that has grown in their political ideology, to embrace
a one world government, vegetarianism, and clean energy. Financial equality for all, well when that happens it will be nothing short of stupid. We need employers and the worst thing with capitalism, we are at the stage where the majority of workers depend on a job or permanent employment. I think one politician once said, “civil rights are a right for everyone, but so long as it doesn’t trample on the civil rights of another.”
Freedom of speech and of course America had the KKK, they got a short shift in Australia and UK. We have to start separating politics from science, or it get’s messy.
In the Australian constitution it states,…”No person should be prejudiced against because of race, gender, religion or political views if they wish to apply for a public post or career.”
End note.I have just changed over to NBN and the Telstra technician was interested in your site as I was on it when he came to change over Anthony, and was pleased I debate the AGW factions and I think he might join.
I agree with Richard, those who have taken this climate change rage against skeptical science, is primarily to protect their future and past profit or grants to submit false information. But being a socialist has nothing to do with it, not in UK or Australia. Russia doesn’t believe in the AGW nonsense.
Where’s my last post? Don’t say the NBN hasn’t put it through yet?
Oh, it’s gone but I agree socialism or any political ideology should not interfere with ones point of view and science. I agree with Richard, these AGW’s are more worried about their past rants and how they ripped off the tax payer by producing one eyed science.
– – – – – – – – –
bushbunny,
What make you think the dialog has been about socialism?
It was about the world views and thought systems that create the kind of collective hatred toward individuals discussed in the lead post.
N’est ce pas?
John
Oops – editorial correction to ‘John Whitman says on April 2, 2014 at 8:41 am’.
What
makemakes you think the dialog has been about socialism?John
John, I believe you commented, and correct me if I am wrong I mean no offense, that most AGW were socialist, including may I add Richard. Actually I posted a long response, and it never appeared. Correction it did appear. Sorry folks. Some of the green ideology is certainly somewhat leftist, well meaning perhaps but too idealistic and based on falsified data. But they are losing a bit of support in Oz, mainly because of their stance on climate change and CO2, the carbon tax and ruminants and now their sympathy with some illegal asylum seekers that are not genuine refugees but economic refugees. They can also be seen to support gay marriage.
PS. John ‘C’est la vie” And before you comment, I can’t see why gay people can’t get married if they want to in a civil service, not a church of course, just gives the lawyers more divorces to handle.
I would say, at a leadership level, most hardcore AGW’s are left wing whatever ‘ism you want to append. Does that exclude some “capitalist” coattail riding for profit and/or power. – no.
– – – – – – – –
bushbunny,
What I meant was that I think the discussion of socialism was just a sub-thread to probe the meaning of the apparent IPCC posturing that favors socialist solutions given that some major supporters of the IPCC are advocating hatred toward skeptical individuals.
My interjection of collectivist dialog was to probe moral excuses for hatred from some IPCC supporters toward skeptics and also the moral excuses of the infamous 20th century collectivist states hatred and subsequent atrocities.
Take care.
John
Thanks John, well I would agree there was a large rant at the Copenhagen COP, that climate change was the result of capitalist countries keeping third world countries from expanding and being competitive, etc. “If you don’t want us to drill for oil, then pay us for it!” I wonder who is financing cutting down rain forests, and also drilling for oil. I find India is one of the promoters of this too. But they have problems between all the different religions there. It’s more than tiresome, it is wrong and this last ALP government even donated 660 million dollars a year to the Climate change fund at UN. That’s stopped.