There are a lot of news items in major media starting to appear about the folly of Professor Chris Turney’s tourism disguised as science expedition. Turney is now backpedaling on the idea that “climate change” caused them to get stuck. Perhaps the laughter has finally reached him. A roundup and video follows.
First, from the NYT:
Stranded Antarctic Ship Story, Like the Ice, Will Not Let Go
By CHRISTINE HAUSER
A team of rescuers from a Chinese icebreaker may need to be rescued themselves, soon after they plucked dozens of people from the Antarctic ice aboard a ship that had been stranded for more than a week.
Chris Turney, a leader of the expedition whose members were evacuated by the Chinese vessel Xue Long’s helicopter on Thursday, shared more photographs of the mission and then an update on Twitter about the unexpected turn of events in the rescue ordeal.
Full story here: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/03/stranded-antarctic-ship-story-like-the-ice-will-not-let-go/
Here is a video of the rescue operation in progress:
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From the Guardian, authored by Turney himself, who links to WUWT in the article:
Antarctic expedition: ‘This wasn’t a tourist trip. It was all about science – and it was worth it’
Chris Turney, leader of the Australasian Antarctic Expedition, says his critics are wrong: the team was prepared, the risks were known, and much was achieved
The last 24 hours have been sobering. I am sitting in the comfort of a cabin on board the Australian icebreaker the Aurora Australis, one day after evacuating the Australasian Antarctic Expedition from our Russian-crewed vessel, the MV Akademik Shokalskiy. After sleepless nights thinking about keeping everyone safe, it is a relief to know everyone is on board the Aurora and well.
There is relief, but there is also frustration over what appears to be a misrepresentation of the expedition in some news outlets and on the internet. We have been accused of being a tourist trip with little scientific value; of being ill-prepared for the conditions; putting our rescuers at risk; and making light of a dangerous situation. Others have remarked on what they describe as the “irony” of climate researchers stuck in unexpected ice.
…
Let’s be clear. Us becoming locked in ice was not caused by climate change. Instead it seems to have been an aftershock of the arrival of iceberg B09B which triggered a massive reconfiguration of sea ice in the area.
[See story below on the statement -Anthony]
Full story here: http://www.theguardian.com/science/antarctica-live/2014/jan/04/antarctic-expedition-was-worth-it-chris-turney
Note: This bit of justification in the article from Turney (bold) about the cost is laughable, he’s only off by a factor of 5-6. So much for scientific precision.
The aim of the Australasian Antarctic Expedition (AAE) is to lead a multidisciplinary research programme in one of the most scientifically exciting regions of our planet, straddling the Southern Ocean and East Antarctic. Using the latest in satellite technology, we are beaming images, movies and text in an attempt to excite the public about science and exploration, inspired by one of the most scientifically successful efforts in the Antarctic: the Australasian Antarctic Expedition of 1911-1914, led by British-born Sir Douglas Mawson. Starting out at the unbelievably young age of 28, Mawson managed to raise £39,000 in a year – equivalent to some $20-25m today. With this he kitted out an entire ship to discover what lay south of Australia.
Umm, I don’t know where Turney gets those numbers, but using the calculator provided by the Reserve Bank of Australia here: http://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualPreDecimal.html
I get:
$4.2 million is sure a long ways from $20-25 million, but I suppose when you are always using other people’s money, being accurate doesn’t matter.
The article with Turney’s calc is saved here as a PDF Turney-spiritofmawson-and it was worth it _ Science _ The Observer -Anthony
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Turney Backpedals! Now Says Getting Stuck In Sea Ice NOT Due To Climate Change”!
By P Gosselin on 4. Januar 2014
It appears that now even Professor Chris Turney admits blaming his expedition mishap on global warming was an astronomical stretch after all.
Yesterday I reported here, quoting flagship Swiss daily (NZZ), that his communication director Alvin Stone blamed global warming for the vessel getting trapped in ice. The whole world laughed.
I couldn’t believe it myself so I wrote an e-mail to Stone asking if they really believed this.
Stone answered circa 9 hours later:
Dear Pierre,
That is not quite the quote that I gave.
This is my understanding from talking to Chris and other glaciologists.
- The 120km long ice berg B09B that is grounded in Commonwealth Bay broke away from the continent three years ago, very likely as a result of climate change.
- B09B collided with the Mertz Glacier, smashing a large ice tongue that released the ice into that area.
- It was a mix of this ice that was blown across the path of the Shokalskiy, which led to it being trapped and explains why much of the ice surrounding the ship is old ice.
– See more at: http://notrickszone.com/2014/01/04/turney-backpedals-now-says-getting-stuck-in-sea-ice-not-due-to-climate-change/#sthash.rG7qwsHv.CeXyK3bZ.dpuf
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Australian taxpayers will pay $400,000 cost for climate scientist’s ship stuck in ice. Total cost “millions”.
The saga just keeps going. The Chinese Icebreaker is now also stuck, and has asked for help so the Aurora Australis with 52 extra passengers rescued from the Russian Charter boat have to stay nearby to help. Twenty two Russian sailors are still trapped on board the Russian boat — the Akademik Sholaskiy. Plus other scientists in Antarctica still don’t have their equipment. Costs for everyone involved are continuing to rise. Though there is a free-for-all on social media…
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/01/australian-taxpayers-will-pay-400000-cost-for-climate-scientists-ship-stuck-in-ice-total-cost-millions/
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Antarctic Debacle Probably Biggest Setback For Campaigners Since Climategate
- Date: 03/01/14 Christopher Caldwell, Financial Times
The debacle in the Antarctic ice is probably the largest setback for global warming campaigners since Climategate scandal in 2009.
When a Chinese helicopter rescued 52 passengers from a Russian climate-science cruise ship trapped in ice off Antarctica, it was a skilfully managed end to an ordeal that had begun on Christmas Eve. It was also a debacle for climate change activists. The 233-foot Akademik Shokalskiy, a Russian meteorological ship leased by the Australian tour outfit Aurora Expeditions, had been on a mission called the “Spirit of Mawson”. It aimed to replicate part of a gruelling voyage the explorer Douglas Mawson had made in 1912. The ship carried 22 scientists looking to perform various experiments, led by Chris Turney, a professor of climate change at the University of New South Wales. They were joined by 26 tourists paying for the adventure, along with journalists for The Guardian, BBC and The Sydney Morning Herald.
http://www.thegwpf.org/ft-antarctic-debacle-biggest-setback-campaigners-climategate/
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This speaks for itself, now the USA is involved:
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Even NYT’s Andrew Revkin, who has been on such expeditions himself, is calling it a fiasco:
A helpful update on several facets of the #spiritofmawson Antarctic fiasco from @RTCCnewswire: http://t.co/bdsY1Fn92Y
— Andrew Revkin 🌎 ✍🏼 🪕 ☮️ (@Revkin) January 2, 2014
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As are the French:
French Polar Chief slams SpiritofMawson fiasco
This really has been a PR debacle of amazing proportions. The ship stuck in ice has captured something larger than I would have expected. Methinks the timing must be apropos.
Good scientists are distancing themselves from the publicity hungry climate lightweights and commentators on both sides of the fence are agreeing in their criticism.
A third effect we are barely starting to see may ripple on for months — that’s when mass-media victims realize that the “Russian Tourist ship” was really a boat load of Australian and New Zealander scientists, paid for mostly by taxpayers and loaded and advised by supposedly “expert” climate scientists. This misinformation was despite the boat having BBC, and Guardian media on board, and Fairfax press in one of the rescue icebreakers. Today I see evidence of the first two effects.
From Skynews. The French chief of polar science calls the Spirit of Mawson trip “pseudo-scientific” and laments the effect it is having on real research.
The head of France’s polar science institute has voiced fury at the misadventures of a Russian ship trapped in Antarctic ice, deriding what he called a tourists’ trip that had diverted resources from real science.
More here: http://joannenova.com.au/2014/01/french-polar-chief-slams-spiritofmawson-fiasco/
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This animation is hilarious:
ACM on Chris Turney and the Akademik Shokalskiy fiasco
By Simon on 4 January, 2014
ACM on Chris Turney and the Akademik Shokalskiy fiasco
Anthony writes: “$4.2 million is sure a long ways from $20-25 million, but I suppose when you are always using other people’s money, being accurate doesn’t matter.”
The climate science exaggeration factor appears in line with other estimates.
Chris Turney: “This wasn’t a tourist trip. It was all about science – and it was worth it”?
Worth it to whom?
Not to me. Wait, I take that back. The embarrassment to the CAGW cause was well worth it.
Looks like Turney put $39,000 through the Mann-o-matic.
sea ice increase is climatic.
That article doesn’t make sense.
If there is a disaster, such as a Taifun and at the same time global cyclone energy is unchanged or decreasing, we still hear it is due or partly due to AGW, because a (probaly un-) related variable (temperature) increased. This is nonsense. If global cyclone energy is not increasing you can’t come up with another variable to explain why it should have increased, then assume it increased when its not and blame it on global warming.
But here, we have 30 years plus of of cooling and the very variable sea-ice increasing. (By the way, the Antarctic peninsula is now cooling as well after the PDO flip to negative.). 30 plus years are regarded as climatic timescale. When sea-ice increases for 30 years and someone gets stuck in sea ice there is a climatic connection.
The tribulation of 3 y old berg B09B breaking off “very likely due to climate change”, its collision with Mertz glacier and the storm “not due to climate change” blowing it off to encase their ship is truly collector! 😉
It would be a big splash when all the ice broke off? But ok AGwers alike believe him so trip saved.
Turney’s napkin calculation of the cost of Mawson’s expedition is wildly out….by a factor of five or six in fact. But of course it’s more about the ‘effect’ of his statement (making his profligacy seem small) than the accuracy of the numbers. A bit like Global Warming itself really.
“…..a misrepresentation of the expedition in some news outlets and on the internet. We have been accused of being a tourist trip.”
Yes, first and foremost by the ABC and BBC. This guy sure is good at kicking own-goals.
It must be the sensitivity settings on the Reserve Bank calculator are too low. They should be adjusted however needed to be more inline with the predetermined reality.
Do you suppose there will ever be an honest accounting of the costs of this fiasco?
A couple of negative comments from the French viewpoint, one from the head of their reearch programme there.
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“The head of France’s polar science institute has voiced fury at the misadventures of a Russian ship trapped in Antarctic ice, deriding what he called a tourists’ trip that had diverted resources from real science.
In an interview with AFP, Yves Frenot, director of the French Polar Institute, said he had no issue at all with rescuing those aboard the stricken vessel.
He said the trip itself was a ‘pseudo-scientific expedition’ that, because it had run into difficulties, had drained resources from the French, Chinese and Australian scientific missions in Antarctica.
‘There’s no reason to place Antarctica off-limits and to keep it just for scientists, but this tourism has to be monitored and regulated so that operators can be sure of getting help if need be,’ he said.
The Russian vessel, the Akademik Shokalskiy, became stuck on December 24 in frozen seas, 100 nautical miles east of the French Antarctic base, Dumont d’Urville.
Its 52 passengers – scientists, tourists and journalists – were airlifted on Thursday to an Australian government supply vessel, the Aurora Australis, using a helicopter from a Chinese icebreaker, the Xue Long.
The Xue Long itself may now be trapped in the ice, and the Aurora Australis has been placed on standby to see if the Chinese ship needs help.
In addition, a French Antarctic vessel, the Astrolabe, which resupplies Dumont d’Urville during the Antarctic summer between October and March was requisitioned for a week to help in the rescue operation.
The trip on the Akademik Shokalskiy was aimed at emulating a 1911-1914 expedition by the Australian explorer, Sir Douglas Mawson.
‘This kind of commemorative expedition has no interest from a scientific point of view,’ said Frenot.
Because of the rescue operations, French scientists had had to scrap a two-week oceanographic campaign this month using the Astrolabe, Frenot said.
‘The Chinese have had to cancel all their scientific programme, and my counterpart in Australia is spitting tacks with anger, because their entire summer has been wiped out.’
Antarctica has about 80 scientific bases, of which around 40 are permanently staffed and others manned on a seasonal or temporary basis.
Only three bases are inland; the others are on the coast.
‘If we want these bases to operate all year round, it is essential to resupply with food and fuel during the brief window of opportunity,’ Frenot said.
Diverting supply ships to rescue tasks ‘imperilled’ this link, he said.”
http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=939155&cid=BP_RSS_TOPSTORIES_3_PolarchiefslamsAntarcticcruise_040114
Another French viewpoint while UK media pretend it was just a tourist ship:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&ie=UTF-8&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.contrepoints.org%2F2014%2F01%2F04%2F152161-akademik-shokalskiy-le-temps-des-interrogations
I’m not sure why Turney and others continue to mischaracterize iceberg B09B as having calved in 2010.
It did not. It calved off the Ross Ice shelf in 1987.
For over 20 years, instead of moving north, it moved slowly around the coast until it got grounded just east of Mertz Glacier.
It wasn’t until 2010 that it ground against the Mertz Glacier Tongue, which broke off.
The Mertz Glacier tongue, now called iceberg C28 drifted away from the coast and broke up. Then B09B continued around the coast and has been in the Commonwealth Bay area for years, resulting in heavy ice. This was well known to the expedition before they left. The effects of this ice movement and resulting changes in the polynyas have been studied for years.
The day they got stuck in the ice, they were out counting penguin nests. The population has decreased in this area because of the heavy ice from these icebergs, but should rise again once B09B and the “fast ice” around it moves out.
That may take years.
i just posted the following on the “Xue Lond beset by ice” thread, along with some other stuff in response to artwest on how James Randerson at the Guardian is responding to many of the comments on the Turney article. surely this contradicts Turney’s “all about science” remark:
11 Sept: ABC PM: UNSW organises Antarctic trek to celebrate centenary of Mawson expedition
MARK COLVIN: One of the expedition leaders is climate change specialist Professor Chris Turney.
CHRIS TURNEY: There’s a number of things we’re hoping to do, and we’re going to start the science program as soon as we head south. This is very much not just for pure science research program: we’re taking the public with us, berths are for sale.
MARK COLVIN: It’s a privately funded expedition.
CHRIS TURNEY: Privately funded expedition, so we’ve just secured an ice-strengthened vessel, something called the Shikowski (phonetic), which is up in Vladivostok at the moment heading down towards us very soon…
MARK COLVIN: Alright, well Australia’s just elected a government which, I think it’s fair to say, is more sceptical about global warming and certainly about what to do about it. Do you think they’ll be listening to you when we get back?
CHRIS TURNEY: I think to be perfectly honest, that in the first instance, we’re just trying to get people excited by the science, and rather than it being an issue where people have a gut feeling about whether they believe in climate change or not, it’s actually getting them to be re-engaged and excited about the science.
And if politicians listen and get excited about what we’re doing, that’d be brilliant.
MARK COLVIN: And as you know, the scepticism has extended right into the science. What do you think about that?
CHRIS TURNEY: It has in the public domain somewhat. Certainly in the scientific community, it’s remarkably solid…
MARK COLVIN: But a lot of scientists feel kind of somewhat besieged at the moment because of this public scepticism.
CHRIS TURNEY: Yeah, some do certainly; those who engage a lot with the public and some individuals do struggle with that a little bit. Other people, though, I’ve met and I’ve given talks to – when you explain the science – completely understand the basic premise and at the end of the day for us, it’s so self-evident, what we see now.
MARK COLVIN: What is that?
CHRIS TURNEY: Well, the fundamental issue is if you didn’t have carbon in the atmosphere, the planet would be about minus 50 degrees centigrade, give or take – that’s what you’d have. So a little bit of carbon warms the planet, and that’s good, it’s where we’re at today – an average planet temperature of about 14, 15, degrees.
If you put more carbon in the atmosphere, you’d expect the planet to warm, and basically that’s what you see…
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3846720.htm
So our modern day Titanic deliberately runs into icebergs named B00Bs ? And get trapped in B09B? Flat, icebergs that don ‘t look like any other iceberg ever? Icebergs that look like, well…seaice?
after this, If you believe in Anthropological Global Warming, the true scientific world is laughing. AT you!
Guess whose name is dirt in both the Antarctic research community (actual science) and among “the team” for singlehandedly pissing off both groups with the impact of his Keystone cop trip and the resulting PR nightmare for the AGW narrative. This makes you almost want to donate so he can do another one.
Bob Greene,
I doubt there will every be any accounting of the costs of this fiasco honest or otherwise.
A Chinese Ka-32 suffered an accident in Antarctica on Dec. 8, 2011. The Kamov series of counter-rotating twin blade helicopters began life as Russian anti-sub platforms.
There is a way for Prof. Turney to refute characterizations of the Spirit of Mawson undertaking as lacking in scientific merit & value.
That will be, to get the raw data they have collected during the expedition posted online, so everyone can see what was achieved.
I doubt that will happen, because I imagine that as Dr. Turney forthright describes in a different context, he & his expedition have put their priority attention on the needs of paying passengers.
They made their enterprise a ‘cruise’, rather than an ‘expedition’, in order to get funding. And even at that … MV Akademik Shokalskiy has berths for 54, and they took only 52.
Questions that might be asked of Turney:
Why aren’t you still on the ship? Exactly why did you need to be “rescued?”
If the answer is: “We were in imminent mortal danger,” then why is the full crew still on the ship?
Apparently there was no shortage of food and the ship could have been supplied by air drops if and when it became necessary. If there was no imminent danger then the whole expensive, disruptive and dangerous “rescue” operation was solely for the convenience of Turney and the other “eco-tourists” whose Antarctic escapade had run low on booze and who were simply becoming bored.
Turney’s background with Carbonscape deserves wider scrutiny. https://opencorporates.com/companies/nz/1882024
A few of these shareholders were on board the ship of fools.
Wow wow wow !
50 degrees due to CO2 – Chris Turney does not even know the very basics of climate science.
CHRIS TURNEY: Well, the fundamental issue is if you didn’t have carbon in the atmosphere, the planet would be about minus 50 degrees centigrade, give or take – that’s what you’d have. So a little bit of carbon warms the planet, and that’s good, it’s where we’re at today – an average planet temperature of about 14, 15, degrees.
If you put more carbon in the atmosphere, you’d expect the planet to warm, and basically that’s what you see…
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3846720.htm
In Russia, ice breaks you!
The jokes just write themselves.
It could be that some people are moved by the irony, specially if they realize this is already summer down there in Antarctica.
I’m wishing the best for the crew still aboard the Akademik, they will have to work very hard against the clock to get it to move again, and float.
“Clitanic” as Ice Queen embodies Warmists’ baldly fetishistic hyper-pilosity. Can’t something be done?
Wow wow wow !
65 degrees due to CO2 – Chris Turney is not even familiar with the very basics of climate science. And the context shows, it is not a lapsus. It his fundamental argument to brush of sceptics ! How could he miss water vapour ?
MARK COLVIN: But a lot of scientists feel kind of somewhat besieged at the moment because of this public scepticism.
CHRIS TURNEY: Yeah, some do certainly; those who engage a lot with the public and some individuals do struggle with that a little bit. Other people, though, I’ve met and I’ve given talks to – when you explain the science – completely understand the basic premise and at the end of the day for us, it’s so self-evident, what we see now.
MARK COLVIN: What is that?
CHRIS TURNEY: Well, the fundamental issue is if you didn’t have carbon in the atmosphere, the planet would be about minus 50 degrees centigrade, give or take – that’s what you’d have. So a little bit of carbon warms the planet, and that’s good, it’s where we’re at today – an average planet temperature of about 14, 15, degrees.
If you put more carbon in the atmosphere, you’d expect the planet to warm, and basically that’s what you see…
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3846720.htm
@ A.W….you might want to transpose the words ‘always’ and ‘using’….”$4.2 million is sure a long ways from $20-25 million, but I suppose when you are using always other people’s money, being accurate doesn’t matter. -A”.
Thanks for all the links. The Turney Fiasco is the gift that keeps on giving.
In the Lapdog Media, this story will get the Clinton-Lewinsky treatment. First, the meme that “she was old enough to make her own decisions”. Second, thoughtful consideration of what really constitutes “sexual relations”. Third, sociologists weigh in on the positive aspects of lying – “It’s a normal coping mechanism”, then “Everyone does it”. Fourth, the dalliance didn’t hamper Clinton’s performance of his official duties. Fifth, explanations that this is, afterall, private behavior and should not be compared to public exhibitions. Finally, discussion of what the meaning of “is” is.
So the media will end up discussing the meaning of “ice”.
Move along, nothing to see here.
In the UK today’s Daily Telegraph is still pushing the idea of AGW being the cause of the sea ice that trapped them. The Telegraph’s story is that melting of the ice cap put extra fresh water into the sea which froze more easily than sea water. It seems that no one sent Geoffrey Lean the new script.
TheGuardian media guy in his video says “this has been quite an intense morning.” Behind him at 0:16, one of his ‘scientific colleagues’ is throwing a snowball! Perhaps a study of how Antarctic snowball ballistics are affected by AGW?
Bob Greene says:
January 4, 2014 at 12:40 pm
Do you suppose there will ever be an honest accounting of the costs of this fiasco?
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Yes – when flying pigs loop the loop – with a barrel roll on top.
In the meantime – don’t hold your breath.
Auto
Happy New Year!!!
[The mods point out that the newly required loopy-pig barrel roll will leave the pigs upside down at the end of the loop. This site is not responsible for the ultimate flight safety of any such inverted pigs above the viewing crowd. Mod]
Why didn’t they just book on a National Geographic expedition cruise? Then they might have got to do really cool stuff like this; Link http://www.antarctic-circle.org/shortcut.htm
http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/halp-us-al-gore.jpg
How Ironic, the BBC & Guardian try to hide that it is a Scientific Expedition and now he is telling the world that it is.
CT explains the ‘precious scientific data’ collected during the expedition to the still somewhat confused milkshake kid
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/CoolAntarctica.htm
“CHRIS TURNEY: Well, the fundamental issue is if you didn’t have carbon in the atmosphere, the planet would be about minus 50 degrees centigrade, give or take – that’s what you’d have”
Well, if thats the quality of a climate change “scientist” then they are on very thin ice.
Everybody knows a body in space around the Earth averages 0 Centigrade.
I see it all, in spite of all precautions, iceberg B09B snuck up on them and they were trapped.
Meanwhile, Seven Sunrise in Sydney has just interviewed Timmy Flim Flam. He assures his interviewers that skeptics really don’t understand the big picture, because you have to look at all levels of the atmosphere not just near the ground. He says the IPCC is where the scientists are, and they know all the heat is going into the ocean.
Nodding amonst themselves, they found that convicing.
Does Donna’s book come in hardback? There’s somebody i want to hit with it.
BBC and Guardian journalists? Must all he above board then surely? Fine unbiased reporters from these two fine institutions wouldn’t be involved in anything less than a professional scientific expedition would they? And pigs might fly……
1935, Roses and Daffodils blooming in Britain: http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/january-3-1935-roses-and-daffodils-blooming-in-britain/
Nothing more dynamic but the weather.
As for the AGW crowd telling us that the in infra red heat exchange by greenhouse gases, especially human emitted Co2 is causing a catastrophic and irreversible heating of the earth’s atmosphere I think we can agree with this:
Their static climate models are not able to predict a dynamic system and their assessments have corrupted.
Their science is completely BS and their political objectives are completely insane.
Read about the well documented climate extremes in the past and enjoy the most favorable weather conditions we experience today.
I say, find a real job and do something useful.
This planet doesn’t need to be saved and we don’t want your green ideology to destroy our economies, our civilization and our freedoms.
The same goes for our current political establishment and their propaganda machinery.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/01/obamas-second-term-is-all-about-climate-change.html
They have pushed this climate hoax and their centralized power grab too far and now the time has come for a serious reset.
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/experts-speak-out-about-global-warming/
Here IMO they have two choices.
They can do a reset themselves and role back their devastating plans and regulations or people will find a way to give them some expert help.
Anyhow, we’re fed up with all the corruption, the fraud, the waste of good taxpayer money, the economic decline, the loss of jobs and above all, the loss of civil rights and freedoms.
From a historic perspective the current situation is not new.
The Finns, totally unprepared, faced a Russian invasion at the start of WWII.
The following article provides the insights.
Violence in the face of tyranny is often necessary:
http://www.alt-market.com/articles/1911-violence-in-the-face-of-tyranny-is-often-necessary
I wonder if anyone has asked Turney what roles his wife and young child played in the “scientific” expedition, and who paid their fares?
Oops. Make that Weekend Sunrise, convincing, and I.
Alvin Stone says,”The 120km long ice berg B09B that is grounded in Commonwealth Bay broke away from the continent three years ago, very likely as a result of climate change. B09B collided with the Mertz Glacier, smashing a large ice tongue that released the ice into that area. It was a mix of this ice that was blown across the path of the Shokalskiy, which led to it being trapped and explains why much of the ice surrounding the ship is old ice.”
His understanding is just plain wrong.
B-98 is only about 100km, unless of course the ice berg has grown in size in the last 24 hours.
Then he says that the released ice from that impact on Mertz Glacier, with a mix of other ice is to blame for stranding the Shokalskiy.
Yet as I reported in a recent blog here at wp.me/pOWA1-bM, that is impossible.
No, I am afraid that CAGW had nothing to do with this fiasco. Nor is his understand even close to reality.
Just as it has been covered here, and elsewhere, Chris Turney won’t be able to talk or pixel his way out of the mess he’s got himself into.
Turkey, “This wasn’t a tourist trip. It was all about science – and it was worth it”
That’s good to hear. That must mean he’s going to cover all the expenses!
(Now where did I put that sarc tag….)
The arrogance of at least one rescued passenger is astounding – but not the least surprising.
After the massive effort rescue them, and after significantly affecting the work of their rescuers, which is based on a small window of favorable weather, and decimating their rescuers budgets, putting their entire season of work in peril, one of those “rescued” had this to say about the delay of the Aussie ship in standing by to help the Chinese icebreaker if needed:
“An Australian icebreaker carrying the 52 passengers is waiting in open water to see if it has to go back to help the Chinese icebreaker Snow Dragon. The trapped vessel says it will try to break free when the tide conditions change in the next few hours. The Australian icebreaker Aurora Australis is waiting around 7 miles north of the Snow Dragon as a precaution. The Australian Maritime Safety Authority says there’s no immediate danger to the Snow Dragon.
Although he acknowledges the reason and necessity for the delay I still find his comments disrespectful and arrogant considering the massive efforts, disruption and costs their folly has caused.
The crews from 2 ships have abandoned their own legitimate and important work – risking their entire season, and spent days, and huge sums of money, helping and then rescuing these passengers from their silly lark. And this yahoo has the audacity to complain of being “frustrated” by the delay in getting them home to their “family and loved ones.”
You can only shake your head at the arrogance and cluelessness.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/chinese-icebreaker-trapped-helping-antarctic-rescue/story?id=21409396
onetwotreeman,
Thanks for the reference to the corporation page. I note our own extremist warmist Tim Flannery gets a mention as a 0.54% shareholder. After the debacle of his Geothermal adventures you would think he’d shy away from climate investments. They haven’t done his bank account much good. The Turneys seem to have the lion’s share so keeping the warming scare alive would be very important to the family’s financial future. A collapse of public support and withdrawal of carbon initiatives would render their shares worthless so we have a warmist with a serious conflict of interest doing “science” to show how climate change (man made of course) is destroying the world as we know it. How can a man who is so dependant on a particular outcome be an unbiased researcher??
Turnkey should have learned Churchill’s dictum: It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt. Which he and his team continue to do.
The generally accepted temp absent water vapor feedback is about -18C, not – 50C. And he is supposed to be a climate professor?
Did anyone get this link showing the pre expedition publicity of the exposition?
No doubt it was an AGW inspired trip.
Talk about BS. Looks like he wanted the leopard seal to become the Antarctic Polar Bear symbol.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-25/15-million-australian-expedition-to-antarctica/5116158
Cheers
Roger
http://www.rogerfromnewzealand.wordpress.com
http://www.thedemiseofchristchurch.com
Turney’s wife and kids were along for… science? Speaking of the inter-human aspect, I’m reminded of the Great Blackout that stranded millions of urbanites when power was lost to the US north east. 9 months later the babies started popping up. This story is far from over.
Sorry “expedition”
So much for the auto spell check on my new computer.
Cheers
Roger
This “trip,” this “expedition,” was to be a corporate publicity campaign for CARBONSCAPE. The Carbonscape website asks for investors! Do we all understand that? They ask, beg, suggest, “potential” investors to contact them. The chutzpah! They did this trip to raise money for Chris Turney’s corporation. UNCONSCIONABLE… unconscionable!
The Guardian media guy in the video says the rescue day has been “quite intense” – while behind him, at 0:16, one of his “scientific” colleagues is throwing a snowball. These guys are seriously comical!
This Mawson Commemoration news story is dated
21 December 2011. Did Professor Turner read it?:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jsLuFWeT9d3OjPabfqGObJwjbP3Q?docId=CNG.90305a194d4e14bb55be2d4504ac50c1.141
“Huge Antarctic iceberg foils centenary plans
By Amy Coopes (AFP) – Dec 21, 2011
SYDNEY — An iceberg nearly 100 kilometres (60 miles)
long was Wednesday preventing tourist ships from
reaching Antarctica to mark the centenary of an
Australian explorer’s epic polar voyage.
Douglas Mawson, among Antarctica’s earliest pioneers,
led the Australasian Antarctic Expedition between 1911
and 1914 — an ambitious scientific research trip that
laid Australia’s territorial claim and presence on the
icy continent.
He had been approached to join British adventurer Robert
Scott’s team in the race to the geographic South Pole
but Mawson declined.
Instead he set off from the city of Hobart on December
2, 1911 with his own men to pursue more scientific
goals.
Mawson landed at Commonwealth Bay on January 8, 1912,
building a complex of huts at Cape Denison that stand to
this day.
Three tourist ships that have been attempting to reach
the cape as part of 100-year commemorations of the
voyage had to ditch their plans due to rare conditions
caused by the mammoth iceberg, an official said.
“There is unusual ice conditions that’s affecting all
the tourist ships that are going down there because the
tourist ships don’t have icebreaking capabilities, and
they also don’t have choppers,” a spokeswoman from the
Australian government’s Antarctic division told AFP.
“So their ability to get anywhere near that Mawson’s
huts area is basically stopped.”
The B9B iceberg, which is about the size of Luxembourg,
is grounded at the cape’s entrance and preventing what
is known as fast ice — sea ice frozen along the coast
— from moving as freely as normal, the spokeswoman
said.
Calved from the Ross Ice Shelf in 1987, B9B made
headlines last year when it smashed into the Mertz
Glacier, creating a new iceberg which is so big it could
potentially affect Earth’s ocean currents and climate.
B9B is now in three major pieces and parts of it are
frozen fast to the seabed, meaning it could clog
Commonwealth Bay for years, with a build-up of heavy
“pack” or drifting ice compounding the problems.
“Since B9B has stranded there a whole bunch of sea ice
is actually piling up against it, so it’s in the way of
the usual drift,” said glaciologist Jan Lieser.
The iceberg had also created a sheltered environment
where fast ice could build quite easily, forming an ice
bridge between the coast and B9B, he added.
“You can walk across the bay if you want to,” said
Lieser.
Mawson’s original voyage battled thick pack ice, and Rob
Easther from the Mawson’s Huts Conservation Society said
the tourists were experiencing authentic conditions.
“We refer to it as the ‘A’ factor, the Antarctic factor,
it messes up a lot of people’s plans,” Easther told ABC
Radio. “That’s what it’s always done and it’ll always do
that. We’ll never outsmart it.
“It’s just part of operating in Antarctica and I know on
the tourist vessels they make this clear to their
passengers, even though they’ve paid lots of money to
go,” he added.
“A lot about Antarctica has not changed in the hundred
years (since Mawson).”
The government vessel Aurora Australis is due to head
for Cape Denison in early January for official
commemorations of Mawson’s voyage. It will be equipped
with helicopters to fly passengers over the ice pack.”
[END]
A $million research grant is climate small change to a dedicated Anthropophobic Gorebull Weirding rentseeker.
“Using the latest in satellite technology, we are beaming images, movies and text in an attempt to excite the public ”
QED – nothing really to do with science but just a media propaganda stunt. The technology in use is media technology not scientific research and measurement technology.
What a narcissistic TWERKER!
Bob Greene says January 4, 2014 at 12:40 pm;
First, under the international agreement on these things, each vessel coming to aid covers its own costs. Plain and simple, point blank. They do it for free.
Even if they could claim compensation – who would want to? Making sausage & Law is bad enough; the budget, funding & costing for these specialty vessels makes $1 wieners look like strawberries & cream.
… And Australia doesn’t even own Aurora Australis – Dubai does! (Don’t laugh, MV Akademik Shokalskiy!)
Second, the glowing, riveting PR benefits gained by those lucky enough to be in a position to respond could be costed at several orders of magnitude over their operational outlay – and it would still be dirt-cheap. This is one of those “money can’t buy” kinds of sweetheart deals.
This single episode will rival if not exceed all the intangibles that China hoped to gain from its moon-shot. Stone cold fact.
Third, scientists at Antarctic bases will also benefit, and they all know it. They live lives at the tawdry & frayed ends of a long priority-queue … but not in 2014! They are already planning & scheming how to deploy & employ the compensatory reaction that will flow to their long-suffering projects & programs.
Yeah, the bases & scientists will put on the proper long face for the reporters … but back in quarters, outa sight of the media, they’re whooping it up & high-fiving each other. Visions of sugar plum fairies fill their thoughts, and will enliven their step for years to come.
An honest accounting? Oh, I would certainly hope not. 😉
I give up.
My comments on the Guardian website article are always delayed and often censored.
Some have arrived but my support for Richard Tol is not turning up.
Is this worth censoring? Is this obscene? Or is this just offensive to creeping totalitarianism?
A “rebutter” of Richard Tol wrote this:
Steerpike13 04 January 2014 8:32pm
____
Richard Tol, you are still running this tired line – and from a Professor, no less.
As you very well know – or maybe not because you are an economics professor who adds a 100% discount to the economic impacts of future climate change and not an actual climate scientist – the team was organised for their skills.
It is not the region where they work that it is important, it is their scientific skill set and how they fit in with a team.
I’m sure if you ever organise an expedition yourself, you would consider the team make-up in the same way. This was after all a multidisciplinary voyage that required a wide skill set.
____
Which I quoted in part and followed with, well this after the quote:
“Wow, the dendrologist must be a great guy. He must reallyfit in with the team.
Unless you think that Global Warming has caused reforestation of Antarctica”
Is that worth censoring? The Grauniad thinks so, these days.
Sigh.
GogogoStopSTOP says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:16 pm
This “trip,” this “expedition,” was to be a corporate publicity campaign for CARBONSCAPE. The Carbonscape website asks for investors! Do we all understand that? They ask, beg, suggest, “potential” investors to contact them. The chutzpah! They did this trip to raise money for Chris Turney’s corporation. UNCONSCIONABLE… unconscionable!
_____________________
Hucksterism at its finest.
I correct a discourtesy: I should have said Professor Turney, not ‘Professor Turner’
Now I’ve trashed the formatting.
Sorry. I’m clearly achieving nothing today.
Chris Turney says “If you put more carbon in the atmosphere, you’d expect the planet to warm, and basically that’s what you see…”
didn’t say they were expecting the ice to have melted though. But we know that’s what they were expecting according to BBC reporter Andrew Luck-Baker in his 2 Janurary article: Antarctic rescue of Akademik Shokalskiy ship completed: “One of the aims was to track how quickly the Antarctic’s sea ice was disappearing.”
http://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/professor-turkey-expected-less-sea-ice-not-more/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25573096
Poa says:
January 4, 2014 at 12:48 pm
So our modern day Titanic deliberately runs into icebergs named B00Bs ? And get trapped in B09B?
———————————
Exactly. Amazing how those scientits got sucked in by the BooBs : ))
PS Chris Turney, Professor of Twerking it seems, co-opted the name of Mawson’s venture “Australasian Antarctic Expedition” for the purposes of this made for media selfie fest.
A rhetorical question arises. Can a compulsive twerker have any sense of shame?
I don’t like the part ‘it is a relief to know everyone is on board the Aurora and well.’
Carbon? The greenhouse effect depends on the tri-atomic shape of CO2 and H2O molecules, not carbon (as soot, dust, graphite, or diamonds). And it (plus H2O) I assume, shouldn’t be worth 65 kelvins:
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect :
If an ideal thermally conductive blackbody was the same distance from the Sun as the Earth is, it would have a temperature of about 5.3 °C. However, since the Earth reflects about 30%[5][6] of the incoming sunlight, this idealized planet’s effective temperature (the temperature of a blackbody that would emit the same amount of radiation) would be about −18 °C.[7][8] The surface temperature of this hypothetical planet is 33 °C below Earth’s actual surface temperature of approximately 14 °C.[9]
http://www.justfacts.com/globalwarming.asp :
* The greenhouse effect is a warming effect caused by certain gases that retain heat from sunlight.[9] Without such gases, the average surface temperature of the Earth would be below freezing, and as explained by the Encyclopedia of Environmental Science, “life, as we know it, would not exist.”[10] The global warming debate is centered upon whether added greenhouse gases released by human activity will overheat the Earth and cause harmful effects.[11]
10] Book: Encyclopedia of Environmental Science. Edited by David E. Alexander and others. Kluwer, 1999. Topic: “Greenhouse Effect.” By Richard A. Houghton.
Page 303: “The natural greenhouse effect is not only real; it is a blessing. As a result of this effect, the Earth is about 33°C warmer than it would be without it. Without it, the average temperature of the Earth’s surface would be below 0°C, and life, as we know it, would not exist.”
There is a hilariously ironic blooper of a cartoon over at SKS. It involves a melting iceberg and ‘Titanic’ tourist ship. It was posted on Jan 29 before things in Commonwealth bay went really pear shaped. I guess that Messrs Cook and Co have faces as red as Prof. Turney’s – but it has been the hottest year in Oz after all.
Well worth a vist (and a laugh): http://www.skepticalscience.com/
To me this whole charade was one of those “priceless” moments that kept on giving and giving even more. And there is more yet to come. Priceless.
Was it worth it? Considering its Aussies’ money, sure! It is worth every penny.
I urge everyone to preserve every evidence for safekeeping. The white-out is inevitable, so why let the good story go to waste. That goes for IPCC too, as obviously the final report will have some further “adjustments” to look more sciency for the political moment.
More wonders on the way…
Lawrie, as an alum, I am thinking of lodging a formal request for investigation to UNSW about this fraud of a “scientist”, based on his clear conflict of interest, as well as the other joker (his colleauge) who recently published an article (timed to coincide) saying basically “I have produced a new model showing some of the other models are wrong, and the future will be worse”. Both are frauds against science. Any thoughts about the content of my letter? How do you get an academic fired for bringing the university into disrepute?
I misread Clitanic and was hoping to see a picture of suitably dressed women. Ah. Well.
The costs keep mounting? It doesn’t matter. Any amount is worth the valuable scientific data they got. Now they will hide that data, manipulate it into AGW spin, publish pal-review papers, and block anyone’s attempts to get the data or code to verify their “findings”. That’s easily worth billions, trillions, billions of trillions! They are saving the entire world!!!!!
(Do I really need to add /sarc ????)
M Courtney says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:24 pm
“My comments on the Guardian website article are always delayed and often censored.
Some have arrived but my support for Richard Tol is not turning up.
Is this worth censoring? Is this obscene? Or is this just offensive to creeping totalitarianism?”
You’re a leftist for how long and you notice now that Komment Macht Frei is a totalitarian re-education camp ????
Ric Werme says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:38 pm
Showing yet again that the more scientifically ignorant and irresponsible a person is, the better a Professor of Climate Change he will make.
http://www.christurney.com/
Best wishes to the crew of Polar Star from this former Coastie.
Le Monde also gives the figure, for each of the icebreakers involved (the French one also lost 7 days on Turney) of
$30 000/day for the French vessel and $100 000/day for each of the Chinese and Australian vessels, figures which do not include crew salaries.
The operating costs of the very big American and Russian icebreakers which are on a 3 weeks trip to save the Shokalskiy, are not mentioned.
http://tinyurl.com/qfa5pap
“Le coût d’une journée d’utilisation de l’Astrolabe s’élève à 20 000 euros, sans compter les salaires. Il est le triple pour le brise-glace chinois et l’australien.”
A fiasco that keeps on giving.
It seems about the only thing that Professor Turney hasn’t said is that it was their plan all along to get stuck in the ice.
But, like other religious pilgrims, he remains oblivious to facts. He’s relieved that everyone is safe. Really? There are two vessels with crew still stuck in the ice; they’re safe?
If these pilgrims were so well prepared, why did they manage to get themselves stuck in ice? Do you expect me to believe that one day the ocean and Commonwealth Bay were free of ice, and the next, they were overwhelmed by all that ice which appeared like magic. *poof* you’re in an ice field.
Professor Turney keeps on trying to justify their pathetic pilgrimage as being of value to science. How? By sending images of their conduct throughout the world via the internet? There are real scientists on Antarctica, conducting real science for months at a time in bitterly cold and dangerous conditions. They don’t go sending out music videos to the world; the real scientists trudge on in dedicated obscurity.
If he doesn’t want his venture to be dismissed as a tourist junket perhaps he needs to make that point with the rest of the media for obscuring the science of his mission. They’re the ones that keep making all the stories about the “passengers” as though this were just a cruise that went bad. But then, as bad as the media is, they do have enough savvy to know how making it about science will bring heaps of ridicule down on their belief system of climate change.
DirkH says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:58 pm
______________________
Don’t ever die. The world needs you.
Please hold Turney’s feet to the fire on the cost of the expedition and the several rescue missions. What he has said so far is nothing but a bluff.
Ric Werme says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:38 pm
CHRIS TURNEY: Well, the fundamental issue is if you didn’t have carbon in the atmosphere, the planet would be about minus 50 degrees centigrade, give or take – that’s what you’d have. So a little bit of carbon warms the planet, and that’s good, it’s where we’re at today – an average planet temperature of about 14, 15, degrees.
Carbon? The greenhouse effect depends on the tri-atomic shape of CO2 and H2O molecules, not carbon (as soot, dust, graphite, or diamonds). And it (plus H2O) I assume, shouldn’t be worth 65 kelvins:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
My assumption was that by “carbon” he meant CO2. Sloppy use of terminology seems systemic in this debate. That said, if he’s been quote correctly, and even if he meant CO2, the statement is truly bizarre. He’d be attributing 65 degrees to CO2, very nearly double the greenhouse effect in its entirety and he’d be atrributing zero degrees to water vapour which is in the range of 80% of the total effect in the first place.
What Turney is reported to have said isn’t right, it isn’t even wrong, it deserves a whole thread unto itself!
Alan Robertson says:
January 4, 2014 at 3:10 pm
“Don’t ever die. The world needs you.”
Gotta learn to keep my mouth shut in real life. I’m in the EU. Here’s a Radio Yerevan joke.
Question to Radio Yerevan: Is it true that Germany has freedom of opinion?
Radio Yerevan answers: In principle yes; as long as it is not forbidden by law.
Sydney Morning Herald report that the tab for Australia’s response to the Akademik Shokalskiy distress call comes to $400,000.
The Aurora Australis expense is set at $30,000/day.
In terms of advertising-value and entré into the living rooms & lives of half the human population … Australia is no doubt delirious at their fantastic good luck.
DirkH says January 4, 2014 at 2:58 pm… I ‘m a leftist all my life and a post-student adult for 18 years. Hear me as someone who has a viewpoint that you do not share.
Recently the Guardian has changed.
It used to be opinionated and aggressive but willing to have a fight.
I felt at home.
Now (since buying in SkS or trying for the Aussie and US markets or… near bankruptcy; I don’t know) it has changed.
When they were defending Peter Gleick’s “faux pas” I had nearly 100 comments shown instantly and uncensored. Nothing was stopped.
And I gradually won round the neutrals: According to the conversations, that were allowed to occur. And also the recommends, for what they’re worth.
The Guardian has changed. At least the Guardian Environment section has changed.
He really doesn’t explain why it was “pseudoscientific”. Just because it ran into difficulties doesn’t make it so, that only means the expedition was poorly executed.
As Turney (like Tim Flannery) is actually a paleontologist who jumped on the bandwagon, his innumeracy and lack of scientific understanding is no surprise.
They still can’t stop lying, can they?
The 120km long ice berg B09B that is grounded in Commonwealth Bay broke away from the continent three years ago, very likely as a result of climate change.
It actually broke away in 1987, and has ever since been nudging west, eventually colliding with the Mertz three years ago.
http://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/turneys-iceberg-calved-in-1987/
Quote: Chris Turney says “If you put more carbon in the atmosphere, you’d expect the planet to warm, and basically that’s what you see…”
If that is so, why has there been no warming for the last 17 years or so at the very same time that CO2 in the atmosphere went up to 400 ppm? Some said that 400 was the “tipping point” and that if we reached that point we were goners.
DirkH says:
January 4, 2014 at 3:22 pm
Gotta learn to keep my mouth shut in real life.
____________________
I’ve very little idea of the politics of any European nation, but I’m standing up with anyone in the world who stands against the statist totalitarians. I grew up in the US with free speech and now see those within our own government working actively to curtail our speech and other freedoms.
Very few “official” voices are raised in opposition. I’m too old and ugly to make any sort of difference, but I stand against those who would usurp the liberty of free men and women, everywhere.
@Jeff Alberts
If you need proof, have a look at the bios of the “Scientists” involved. All but one or two will contain the words: climate change, warming planet, or similar terms. Thus, we have Ornithologists, Archeologists, Marine Biologists, Botanists, and an assortment of other disciplines who choose to limit their inquiries to a single issue. Methinks, the vast majority of “Climate Scientists” rely far too much on deductive logic, and as such, fall prey to “Idols” Bacon warns us against in Novum Organum.
From Jo Nova’s site ; h / t jorgekafkazar;
Another twist from this comical parody of a psuedo climate science research debacle.
It seems the Russians had had enough and just wanted Turney’s psuedo and so called Mawson expedition scientists and assorted tax payer funded martini and milk shake sucking and partying hanger ons to get the hell out of their way so they got them offloaded onto the Australians for them to worry about.
_________________________________
From “FleetMon” a global shipping news reporting blog
http://www.fleetmon.com/maritimenews/2014/2945/research-vessel-shokalskiy-may-become-antarctic-fl/
Research vessel Shokalskiy may become an Antarctic Flying Dutchman
[ quoted ]
On Jan 2 all 52 passengers of research vessel AKADEMIK SHOKALSKIY were evacuated to Australian research and supply icebreaker Aurora Australis by a Chinese helicopter provided research and supply icebreaker Xue Long.
World media made such a fuss over the story one could think it was a Titanik tragedy turned into success.
It was clear from actually, the very beginning, that the passengers were in no real danger, when it came out, that there are helicopters nearby.
They’ve been taken from Shokalskiy simply because they were already more of a nuisance staying on board of Shokalskiy, and eating away food supplies which are required for the crew remaining on board.
Passengers were mostly scientists, or so they say, who were trying to get yet more proofs of devastating global warming effects.
Well, if getting trapped in ice is a result of global warming, they definitely found what they’ve been after. The public didn’t miss the irony of it: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/30/stuck-in-our-own-experiment-leader-trapped-team-insists-polar-ice-is-melting/
Strictly speaking, it wasn’t a “rescue”, it was evacuation. There wasn’t, and still isn’t any real danger to Shokalskiy.
The future of Shokalskiy is unclear. 22 crew is waiting for ice to move so that there will be a passage to ice-free waters. It’s up to weather, currents and god or fate.
If vessel stays trapped until all the supplies run out, then, the crew will be evacuated, too. Shokalskiy may become an Antarctic Flying Dutchman. Depending on the condition of the hull, vessel may stay afloat for years, providing of course, she won’t be crushed by ice strains.
Research vessel AKADEMIK SHOKALSKIY is trapped in ice in vicinity of 66 52S 144 19E since Dec 24 13. Three vessels were engaged in attempts to free Shokalskiy.
[end]
When Turney finally gets back to Australia, it’s likely there will be an initiative among the ABC & the leftist Aussie media, to declare him a hero to the cause. How he saved all those people stranded on the ice etc. It will be on spurious grounds however. In my view, Turney has become the new Flannery. A name synonymous will self serving spin, failed prophecy & junk science.
Jeff Alberts says January 4, 2014 at 3:34 pm;
The first sentence is true, but the second is mistaken/confused. Frenot only uses the “difficulties” to assert that the expedition “drained resources” from other science, not that the expedition was pseudo-scientific.
To do science requires discipline and organization. Factors that interfere with discipline and degrade organizational structure – such as babysitting paying tourists – legitimately raise questions about the science purportedly in progress.
Prof. Turney makes general claims to having done real science, but the claims are couched in the language of the media & Press. He could quickly describe the activities of the expedition in the language of scientists, and he could also post data on the Internet, but he is electing not to speak to other scientists.
Turney’s failure to make a valid scientific case, to scientists, does not prove that no science was done, or that the expedition was never more than pseudo-scientific, but it is strongly suggestive of that, and is a reasonable inference, intellectually-speaking.
If this is all about the science, Professor Chris Turney, could you please supply some of the hard data. I haven’t seen any yet. Douglas Mawson, according to your own account had volumes of data – volumes and volumes. Maybe you could assemble some hard data so that we could look at it and compare it to Douglas Mawson’s data from 101 years ago. Just maybe a taste of your data? Some temperatures or something?
The “Clitanic” name distracts folks to the wrong nether orifice.
It’s the less prestigious one we should be thinking of, perhaps “Climtasstic”
Scott Mandia of LDF & UCS fame,
I think Turney may need some big legal funds and urgent legal counsel from your Union of Concerned Scientists and Legal Defence Fund.
Based on the last week of reports Turney is not astute enough to keep his mouth shut with the increasingly critical international media.
You better fly down there urgently on taxpayers expense . . . doing good for alarmists has no end to taxpayer expense . . . right?
NOTE: the scientists in your UCS should be concerned about science after TurneyGate.
John
Decision makers in the USA have another situation upon which to act. USCGC POLAR STAR has a sister ship USCGC POLAR SEA, which has been out of service since 2010 due to engine failure. It was slated for demolition in 2012, but the scrapping of the 35-year-old icebreaker was postponed by at least six months in June. $400 million would see the ice breaker’s service extended for another 25 years or $925 million would purchase a new vessel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Polar_Sea_(WAGB-11)
As future winters become more intensely cold, many more heavy icebreakers will be essential to keep shipping lanes open in the northern hemisphere. However, if we are seeing the start of the next overdue glacial period, then Canada, the USA, Scandinavia, Northern Europe, Russia & Siberia will succumb to glaciation once again. Where will billions of people live & what will they live on? Soylent Green?
There are a large number of falsehoods and exaggerations being promoted by this group: Each needs to be exposed, discussed – and, where crowd-source analysis warrants – refuted, debunked, disputed, dis-reputed, discouraged, and dismembered. Where appropriate, their lies, “arguments” and science-by-inaccurate-and-exaggerated press releases need also to be smeared over, laughed at, and sneered upon.
A. “Unexpected sea ice” –
The Antarctic sea ice has been steadily gaining since December 2010 (now 3+ years ago!) and the entire Antarctic Sea Ice anomaly has been positive (more sea ice around Antarctica than that day’s seasonal normal (average) since May 2011. All of the above means, for the casual-non-CAGW-and-skeptical reader (but not the CAGW-educated elite academicians who “study” Antarctic sea for their living and their luxuries!) that;
A1… There is MORE sea ice every day around Antarctica for the past 2-1/2 years than normal
A2….. That this sea ice around Antarctica has been steadily growing every day through every season of the year around Antarctica for the past 2-1/2 years
A3….. and, That this ever-growing sea ice around Antarctica has been plotted and published every day every month for the past 2-1/2 years in the public’s view – but not apparently in the knowledge of CAGW-religious educated elite who study CAGW’s effect on Antarctica for their living and luxuries in New South Wales, Australia.
2. This “extra” sea ice has been steadily growing around Antarctica trhough every season of the year (winter’s cold through summer’s (December’s) “heat”) and is now over 1.61 Million km^2 (Mkm^2) as the Antarctic’s mid-summer “minimum approaches in late February. Certainly, when the expedition left in mid-November, the plots already showed a EXCESS Antarctic sea ice “margin” of 1.5+ million sq km’s. Sea ice obviously reduces every summer – but the “excess” 1.5 million km^2 WERE STILL PRESENT WHEN THE EXPEDITION LEFT (and when they were planning through the previous 18 months). Further, this sea ice “excess” HAD NEVER melted from the previous winter’s record-breaking high extents!
3. Total Antarctic sea ice was in September’s peak was 19.5 Mkm^2 (sea ice) + 3.5 Mkm^2 (permanent Antarctic ice shelves) + 14.0 Mkm^2 (land-based continental ice and glaciers) for a total of 37.0 Mkm^2 of reflective surface. This means a total area from the south pole up to latitude 60 [south] had been completely covered in ice at the end of September, 2013. When the expedition left NSW in November, it would appear “prudent” for its expedition scientific “leader” and head “scientist” in Antarctic’s CAGW effects to have calculated just where the actual edge of the receding sea ice would actually be when they arrived to unload equipment (and get stuck) in mid-December.
4. local conditions will obviously vary – but that 1.6 Mkm^2 of “excess” sea ice at the start of their expedition does not “go away” miraculously through press releases: If a single Antarctic Bay or headland is clear of sea ice on day “one” by day 3, it may be replaced by near-by sea ice, right? This regardless of the “iceberg” that had been in that same location suddenly “trapping” excess sea ice (since 1988) against the shore – which had not moved since 1988.
5. The AIR above the Antarctic continent has been measured as warming for many years – that IS the first, last, and primary knowledge that this “scientist” has gotten right, BUT “heat transfer” is a minute-by-minute movement of energy and physics. What happened in 1970, 1980, 1990, 1996, 2006, or even December 1, 2012 did NOT cause any ice movement or freezing in December 2013 when they were trapped. Because essentially all of the sea ice in that area melts EVERY summer around Antarctica – and in that area had melted before regularly, ONLY the actual conditions of November-December 2013 can be used to explain (or excuse) the presence or absence of sea ice around their vessel.
Thus, that the West Antarctic Peninsula has warmed 1, 3, 5 or even 7 degrees C does NOT imply that this particular area has warmed measurably.
That some glacier 800 km away has retreated does NOT mean that sea water near their ship has been diluted, cooled, or affected in any way.
6. Summer and winter conditions in 2011 were warmer than usual across the entire continent, BUT the Antarctic sea ice ended up GREATER than normal through the entire heating, melting, re-freezing, and frozen parts of the year in 2011. The expedition’s leader’s CAGW theory has no explanation for this discrepancy.
Summer and winter conditions in 2012 were warmer than usual across the entire continent, BUT the Antarctic sea ice ended up GREATER than normal through the entire heating, melting, re-freezing, and frozen parts of the year in 2012. The expedition’s leader’s CAGW theory has no explanation for this discrepancy.
Summer conditions in 2013 were warmer than usual across the entire continent, BUT the Antarctic sea ice ended up GREATER than normal through the entire heating, melting, re-freezing, and frozen parts through December, 2013. The expedition’s leader’s CAGW theory has no explanation for this discrepancy.
7. Because the actual December 2013 Antarctic air and troposphere temperatures ranged from 1.5 degrees to 2.5 degrees higher than their baseline, the expedition has tried to generate explanations for the increase in sea around their ship using this “CAGW-CAUSED-ANTARCTICA-ICE-TO-MELT” theme to explain excess sea ice around Antarctica.
Their theory of CAGW-air-warmth increases sea ice extents around Antarctica needs to be measured, analyzed, criticized, reviewed, and then mocked. In detail.
A. Scott says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:01 pm
Operating helicopters in the Antarctic is itself dangerous. Snow Dragon lost one of her Kamovs there in December 2011.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2011-12/10/content_14243321.htm
We are going to need more and better ice-breakers/polar rescue capabilities now and in the future because there are just so many people who have bought this theory.
It’s like there are millions of people who think polar ice will be no problem at all starting today and -40C temperatures can be managed with a good fall jacket. They think we don’t need electricity in the winter or natural gas furnaces to survive the cold.
We are just going to be saving their butts over and over again.
Could Pounds Sterling still be redeemed for silver around 1911? Maybe the value of silver has exceeded the rate of inflation.
Auto says:
January 4, 2014 at 1:20 pm
Bob Greene says:
January 4, 2014 at 12:40 pm
——-
[The mods point out that the newly required loopy-pig barrel roll will leave the pigs upside down at the end of the loop. This site is not responsible for the ultimate flight safety of any such inverted pigs above the viewing crowd. Mod]
——–
http://youtu.be/KBoIExQjKQ4
davidmhoffer says:
January 4, 2014 at 3:15 pm
Ric Werme says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:38 pm
CHRIS TURNEY: Well, the fundamental issue is if you didn’t have carbon in the atmosphere, the planet would be about minus 50 degrees centigrade, give or take – that’s what you’d have. So a little bit of carbon warms the planet, and that’s good, it’s where we’re at today – an average planet temperature of about 14, 15, degrees.
Carbon? The greenhouse effect depends on the tri-atomic shape of CO2 and H2O molecules, not carbon (as soot, dust, graphite, or diamonds). And it (plus H2O) I assume, shouldn’t be worth 65 kelvins:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
My assumption was that by “carbon” he meant CO2. Sloppy use of terminology seems systemic in this debate. That said, if he’s been quote correctly, and even if he meant CO2, the statement is truly bizarre. He’d be attributing 65 degrees to CO2, very nearly double the greenhouse effect in its entirety and he’d be atrributing zero degrees to water vapour which is in the range of 80% of the total effect in the first place.
What Turney is reported to have said isn’t right, it isn’t even wrong, it deserves a whole thread unto itself!
————————————————————————————–
+1
Salby in his book – Physics of the Atmosphere and Climate -puts water vapour as having 98% effect as the greenhouse gas. But I read that Turney’s background is in paleontology . If true it would explain a lot. Yes I agree Anthony should put this up as a thread for experts here to comment on. Its plainly absurd.
3 June: Courier Mail: AAP: Aust team to retrace Antarctic expedition
Professor Chris Turney from the University of NSW told AAP: “That part of the world is rapidly changing because of warming conditions and the hole in the ozone layer.
“We really want to try and incorporate current climate models and figure out the changes to things like wildlife, compared with the original data from 100 years ago,” he said.
The privately funded voyage will have its challenges, with a 150km-long iceberg currently blocking entry to the coast at Commonwealth Bay.
“We’re quietly confident with the technology we’ve got … and hopefully the weather changes as well but it will be a challenge nevertheless,” Prof Turney said.
“That’s part of the adventure and excitement.”
The team will take part in live online chats with schools across Australia during the expedition, as well as update blogs and social media…
Berths on the ship will also be made available for sale to the general public.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/aust-team-to-retrace-antarctic-expedition/story-e6freono-1226656467349
Is the syllable break before or after the t? Perhaps it depends if there was any screaming from the AGW crowd.
From what I see at BBC, CNN etc this is not even a story. We are given the impression here that this is big… its not even on the MSM radar as usual.. Unfortunately AGW as usual again wins.
Alan Robertson says:
January 4, 2014 at 3:45 pm
“I’ve very little idea of the politics of any European nation, but I’m standing up with anyone in the world who stands against the statist totalitarians. ”
I just recently learned about a nice law we have called “Verunglimpfung des Staates”; “denigration of the state”; so if some hypothetical person would tell you that the current incarnation of Germany was created by the Allied Forces as a colony of the American Empire… well… you know, they wouldn’t find that terribly funny. That’s in addition to our well known holocaust denial laws. BTW, the European court just decided that the Armenian holocaust may be denied by anyone; that’s A-OK in the EU; not the other one; not that I wanted to…but the more I look into all this the rottener it gets.
Oh really! 🙂
Eliza says:
January 4, 2014 at 4:46 pm
“From what I see at BBC, CNN etc this is not even a story. We are given the impression here that this is big… its not even on the MSM radar as usual.. Unfortunately AGW as usual again wins.”
Not so fast. Amazingly my brother here in Germany who doesn’t care much about Global Warming etc and gets his news from our state media asked me whether I noticed this story, so I gave him the details. Obviously even our warmist state media have reported it. Ship stuck in Antarctis with 50 hapless tourists on board is too big to ignore. Turney is a genius, and he works for us. NOBODY would have noticed that amount of sea ice in SH summer without his help. He’s the Wile E. Coyote of Global Warming.
How can Turney be a scientist (“If you put more carbon in the atmosphere,…”) when he can’t even tell the difference between Carbon and Carbon Dioxide. I suppose he pours hydrogen out of the tap when he is thirsty. Typical climate AGW warmist trying to deceive the public through the Greenie loving ABC.
Ric Werne – thanks for pointing put that black body radiation temeperature of the Earth is about 258 k and that with an atmoshpere suface temperature is 288k. Thus Turney saying it is 50 degrees k difference suggests a lack of basic knowledge.
I trust that the ships and crews are rescued and best luck for the US Coastguard. If they can’t break through then as for melting/ blasting the ice to rescue the ships I presume that two 20kT ground burst atomic bombs are out of the question?
davidmhoffer says:
January 4, 2014 at 3:15 pm
Ric Werme says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:38 pm
Well, no. He has released NO hard data, soft-data, or even luke-warm melted data. But, it is early yet, let us not be too strongly critical. yet.
BUT! It is even worse than you think:
What “Professor” Turney (and his apologists here on the pages of Watts Up With That) religiously believes is that “Warmer air due to CAGW HAS warmed the air above the Antarctic continent above its previous normals,
which HAS warmed its rocks, and ice, and glaciers and ice cap above their previous normals of -25 to -35 degrees,
which excess warmth HAS melted parts of its ice and glaciers and ice cap above their previous normals of -25 to -35 degrees to 0-2 degrees,
which excess fresh water HAS run off into the trillions of tons of salty South Sea water around Antarctica,
which excess fresh water at 0-2 degrees HAS diluted that entire trillions of tons of salty south sea water mass (so it will now freeze faster) AND HAS cooled off enough of those trillions of tons of now-not-so-salty South Sea salt water to cause/allow EXTRA sea water to freeze into surface sea ice at below 0-2 degrees salt water,
which HAS caused an excess 1.6 million sq kilometers of “excess” sea ice to be formed – and stay formed permanently (well, for at least 2-1/2 years now) …”
That IS their most-recent, most-often quoted theory, right? Does any CAGW-“scientist” want to deny it now, before it gets even worse?
Now, that 1.6 million sq kilometers of “x\excess” sea ice is all between 1 and 2 meters thick. The entire continental area of 14.0 Mkm^2 of ice cap does not have to melt to deliver “some” fresh water into the ocean around Antarctica, but “a lot” does.
can these CAGW-apologists do the arithmetic required?
1. How much Antarctic land ice (now at -25 to -35 degrees) needs to “melt” due to “hotter air above the ice” to dilute enough ocean water at 2-4 degrees C to cause that diluted ocean water to be able to freeze to create an “excess” volume of sea ice of 3,200,000 x 10^6 cubic meters of sea ice (1.6 Mkm^2 of sea x 2 meters thick)?
2. Assume that Antarctic conditions near the coast are similar to McMurdo: Its HOTTEST temperatures are in December (-3.4 degrees C AVERAGE daily temperature) and January (-2.9 degrees C AVERAGE daily temperature) each year. Maximum daily temperatures at McMurdo are -0.8 (December) and -0.2 (January) (Mean measurements).
Every other month of the year, and in almost every other location on the continent land mass, average temperatures – and maximum high temperatures – are ALL LOWER than those measured air temperatures at McMurdo. But let’s use them anyway. Further, let’s assume that December 2013’s measured Antarctic air anomaly of +2.5 degrees C also happened every month of the past three years. (They didn’t, but so what?)
If December 2013’s satellite measurements show a regional increase in temperature of +1.5 C to +2.5 degrees C above Antarctica, then actual December 2013 maximum air temperatures “might” actually be above 0.0 C, but only – at a few hours per day, and only in December and January. Every other day of the year, actual measured air temperatures around the coast of Antarctica WILL BE BELOW ZERO, have been below zero, will continue to be below zero.
(For the scientifically challenged CAGW-favoring readers amongst us, we will remind all that fresh water ice at atmospheric pressure and temperatures, must FIRST be heated up to 0.0 degrees C by the air above it (and the “normal” unchanging-from-normal-amount of solar radiation BEFORE it can BEGIN melting into fresh water. And that fresh water glacier ice and ice cap water must STAY above 0.0 degrees C in order to run off beneath the ice cap and glacier ice masses (at -25 to -35 degrees C) into the sea water around Antarctica. The salty ocean around Antarctica remains approximately 2-4 degrees above zero at all times, so it must be cooled to below -2.0 degrees C to freeze at all. receiving fresh water at 0-4 degrees C will only serve to heat up the salty ocean water further, which is why we need to calculate how much the salty ocean water must be diluted by the warmer fresh water before it can be cooled (by the CAGW-heated-hotter-than-normal air above it?) to freeze an additional mass of salty ocean water into excess sea ice to trap the CAGW-religion ship. Right? )
3. How did the continental land ice and glaciers and ice cap get enough heat in December and January of any year – much less December 2013 – to “melt excessively” to cause that “calculated” billions of tons of land ice to flow into the surrounding sea water to cause it to become diluted enough to freeze into 3,200,000 x 10^6 cubic meters of “excess” sea ice around Antarctica?
“The team will take part in live online chats with schools across Australia during the expedition, …”.
Excuse me, but all schools are closed for the summer break in Australia. So what schools is he talking about? Then again, he is a climate scientist who doesn’t let facts get in the way of his message.
To add to the mounting financial losses is the almost certain cancellation of the A Shokalskiy’s next voyage. It’s for 48 tourists paying US $18,700 to $33,660 each (excluding air fares and other expenses) to be taken on a sightseeing trip to the Ross Sea and Subantarctic Islands. The ship is due to leave New Zealand on the 18 January 2014 returning to NZ 29 days later.
http://www.cheesemans.com/antarctica_rs_jan14.html#ship
VIDEO: APPROX 38 MINS: Professor Chris Turney’s Brainfood lecture, June 2013:
LISTEN FROM 24 MINS: DOODLE4GOOGLE COMP. SUPPORTED BY COMMONWEALTH BANK. JUST LAUNCHED TODAY.
AVAILABLE 10,000 SCHOOLS NEW ZEALAND & AUSTRALIA. THE TEACHERS FROM WINNING SCHOOLS IN NZ AND AUSTRALIA JOIN THE EXPEDITION. BERTHS FOR SALE. FLYERS OUTSIDE. IT ISN’T REALLYMEANT TO BE A CRUISE SHIP PER SE (PAUSE) IT IS A CRUISE SHIP…. WE’LL BE USING GOOGLE+. GO ON YOUTUBE OR GOOGLE+, U’LL BE ABLE TO WATCH US BLAH BLAH. DAILY MOVIES FOR TEACHERS. THEN THERE’S SATELLITE TECHNOLOGY, EXPENSIVE, NOT PROHIBITIVE, I DIDN’T LIKE THE BILL WHEN I GOT IT. (SHOWS SATELLITE VIDEO EXCHANGE WITH TEACHER IN SYDNEY – TURNEY LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING HOME & HAVING A DECENT COFFEE). WE ARE PLANTING A HECTARE OF KAURI TREES IN NZ, DEDICATED TO AUSTRALASIAN ANTARCTIC EXPEDITION, WHICH WILL HAVE THE ADDED BENEFIT OF FIXING THE CARBON USED TO RUN THE EXPEDITION OVER THE NEXT 50 YEARS…IT WILL BE ALL FIXED.
ABC Big Ideas: Chris Turney: In the Footsteps of Mawson
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2013/08/05/3817179.htm
For crying out loud, people, can you not focus on the most staggering, jaw dropping revelation that has been presented in the thread
Davidmhoffer, Manfred and one or 2 others have referred to it. I think, though, it was Pat, i.e.
who first commented on an ABC interview with ‘Professor’ Chris Turney. At the end of the interview Mark Colvin (the interviewer) concludes with
Has everyone got that. The interview is with Chris Turney who is Professor of Climate Change at UNSW. Earlier in the interview, however, the Professor of Climate Change made this statement.
This is someone who hasn’t got a clue. As, Manfred points out, this is a person who doesn’t understand the basic science.
Sorry about the formatting in the previous post.
[ Fixed. ModE]
Political Junkie,
“LWhy aren’t you still on the ship? Exactly why did you need to be “rescued?”
If the answer is: “We were in imminent mortal danger,” then why is the full crew still on the ship?
Apparently there was no shortage of food and the ship could have been supplied by air drops if and when it became necessary. If there was no imminent danger then the whole expensive, disruptive and dangerous “rescue” operation was solely for the convenience of Turney and the other “eco-tourists” whose Antarctic escapade had run low on booze and who were simply becoming bored.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You have completely missed the point. They were rescuing the crew from Turney and friends. 🙂
A question for you: Even in the absence of any immediate danger, would you want to be stranded with Tourney somewhere?
Was I the only one to notice how Chris Turney and some in the expedition were trying to show how hot it was by their clothes? Notice these photos. There must be hot down there indeed (sarc). Chris Turney must have run to a very nice and hot coat in the end of this small interview, after the “it’s hot down here!” propaganda stunt was done…
Do these guys realize that these kind of tricks do not work anymore? Notice the clothes of everyone being rescued… What was the air temperature exactly?
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/photos/ship-trapped-in-antarctica-ice-slideshow/still-image-taken-video-shows-expedition-leader-chris-photo-080239971.html
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/photos/ship-trapped-in-antarctica-ice-slideshow/handout-shows-woman-standing-deck-australia-39-antarctic-photo-070940155.html
[NSFW] Clitanic? My initial thought is it had to do with being frigid.
This has been the best [Christmas] since 0 AD
But I fear Pierre Gosselin (Notrickszone) will be proved right
“Expect bogus commissions to clear Turney
I suspect in the end that a commission, even two or three of them, are going to be set up to investigate the whole thing. Then after some months each will issue an authoritive report claiming that although Turney could have done things better, all in all no serious violations were committed and he’ll be cleared. Of course everyone will know that the commissions were bogus. And later, with no one watching, future expeditions will be carried out under far stricter oversight.
In the end the taxpayer will pick up the rescue tab and legal expenses. ”
These people all have too much at stake and ultimately any investigation will have to cover for them. Its all their funding that is on the line.
Passenger from Sea Spirit Cruise Ship Killed During Artic Excursion
http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2013/06/articles/excursions/passenger-from-sea-spirit-cruise-ship-killed-during-artic-excursion/
A newspaper in Norway reports that a cruise ship passenger was killed and three other passengers were injured while on an Artic cruise excursion. The incident occurred when a rubber inflatable boat (a Zodiac) was swamped by a wave in the Arctic archipelago of Svalbard, causing all 13 people to go into icy Arctic waters.
The accident involved passengers from the Sea Spirit who were being taken on a sightseeing excursion. The deceased passenger was a U.S. woman in her 60’s. She was examined by the cruise ship doctor. A rescue helicopter was sent but the woman was pronounced dead, Two other passengers were flown in the helicopter to a hospital at Longyearbyen for treatment.
The Sea Spirit cruise ship is operated by Quark Expeditions.
Are we all being a little unkind to Professor Turkey?
He deserves an award for demonstrating the need for skepticism in science.
Thank you to Clay Morley , Steve Power and others who have highlighted the actual history of the iceberg BO9B ( or is it B9B).Iit clearly shows the Turkey is scrambling with explanations. If he did not know these details accurately before his trip, he can hardly call himself a Prof of anything.Then he adds the bit highlighted by John Finn above. If other scientists do not scream “foul” over these statements then something is very,very wrong in the scientific community.
Also a note to Turkey —it was not the sceptics who started the “tourist ship” comments , it was your mates in the MSM.
M Courtney says:
January 4, 2014 at 3:30 pm
“The Guardian has changed. At least the Guardian Environment section has changed.”
If you say so. For as long as I looked at Komment Macht Frei (since 2009 when my interest in CO2AGW started) I’m used to seeing the “removed” notices. I never ventured to comment there as it always seemed pointless in all mainstream leftist media. I once asked a question at Real Climate but it got lead down the stairs and shot in the neck in the execution chamber.
mfo says January 4, 2014 at 5:07 pm;
Thanks for the informative link!
It will be close, if the ice doesn’t blow apart on its own and they have to wait for the Polar Star.
But the Akademik Shokalshiy is now the hottest cruise-property in the Antarctic, bar none, and those signed up for the next trip are waiting with baited breath, hoping against hope that they get to go on it. They will accept a little delay, if need be.
The AS has their new Xue Long buddies about a half hour away, by groomed Argo-trail. The XL, and Beijing, now have a vested interest in the ongoing success of their partners in Antarctic drama, on the AS. They are going to be very active, doing everything in their power to have that ship ready for the return voyage, and its next cruise. They do have considerable powers.
And, they will be bending over backwards to buoy the officers & crew, so they are on their toes and ready to render the kind of seamless professionalism they have shown to the Mawson group, for the next group.
I anticipate that neither Hell nor High Water – or passing delays in Commonwealth Bay – will be adequate to interfere with Akademik Shokalshiy’ upcoming cruise-schedule. The excellent Chinese Captain Wang Jianzhong has already made this goal his personal Job #1.
Turney’s new Chinese nickname, “Sum dum Gai”, seems a natural fit. A Hollywood studio is casting for an upcoming TV series and are looking for someone to play “The Professor”. Nominations? Thurston Howell’s part is to be played by Al Gore, a howler if ever one existed. The writers are concerned that unlike Gilligan’s Island, they don’t think they can make this plot sound believable.
Ship accidents in Antarctica raise ecological and safety concerns
http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Ship-accidents-in-Antarctica-raise-ecological-and-safety-concerns/
Growing concerns
In February, a Quark Expeditions ship, the Ocean Nova, was pushed aground in Antarctica by unusually high winds. All 64 passengers and 41 crew were safely evacuated to another Quark vessel, the Clipper Adventurer. The Ocean Nova was eventually freed from the rocks, and Quark reported that the incident had done no environmental damage.
Rud Istvan says:
January 4, 2014 at 2:07 pm
“The generally accepted temp absent water vapor feedback is about -18C, not – 50C. And he is supposed to be a climate professor?”
His official title is “Professor of Climate Change”, which is a very different thing. It says something about the state of academia that Climate Change is a subject in itself these days, and one that is closer to the humanities than the sciences. The way things are going, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Faculties of Climate Change or even Schools of Climate Change before too long.
pat says:
January 4, 2014 at 5:07 pm
Turney Brainfood Lecture: “WE ARE PLANTING A HECTARE OF KAURI TREES”
He will have to plant a few more now. Please, warmists, you do the carbon accounting. Maybe one of Turney’s PhD students can compute it.
Retracing Mawson
Alarmist stunt gone awry
Crunching ice sound, brrrrr.
Still trying to find the blog by Turney on ABC Science website. Doesn’t seem to have happened, weirdly. But school teacher turned guru “Dr” Karl and his equally vapid friends are still there of course.
They’ll tell me what to think.
And unless I am very careful indeed they’ll tell my children what to think, too…
RACookPE1978 says:
January 4, 2014 at 5:05 pm
True, but to add some meat to that “might”, I checked and the Australian stations in December and January are above zero.
An example,this for the four days of January 2014
Mawson mean max 4.0C
Casey mean max 2.5C
Davis mean max 4.6
Casey mean max annual graph http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/cvg/av?p_stn_num=300017&p_prim_element_index=0&p_display_type=statGraph&period_of_avg=ALL&normals_years=allYearOfData&staticPage=
So, there would be melt, not much, but some.
The thought that a conventional engine failure might end up in the scrapping of a ship boggles my mind. A ship’s diesel is massively modular and even if the failures were in the very largest components (bottom and crank?), it seems to me the cost minor compared to replacement of the hull. Replacement of a gas-turbine is trivial. Replacement of the reduction gears might be comparable to the diesel engine in difficulty and cost. I just can’t imagine the economies involved.
22 Nov: Guardian: Frances Stonor Saunders: 1912: The Year the World Discovered Antarctica by Chris Turney – review
Ad: 1912: The Year the World Discovered Antarctica
by Chris Turney – Buy the book
But the affair is tacked on to the end of the book and Turney hesitates to pursue its implications – that the morally redemptive story of Scott’s death was stage-managed to obscure a competing narrative of sauve qui peut.
The instinct to self-preservation was not put on ice by Antarctic explorers. These men may have “sallied forth”, “soldiered on”, “blazed a trail” (Turney leaves no cliché unturned), but as they pioneered a continent their conduct often fell short of the altruistic ideal…
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/nov/22/1912-world-discovered-antarctica-chris-turney-review
steven says:
January 4, 2014 at 5:50 pm
Haikul.
Man: Albatross! Albatross! Albatross!
Customer: Peanut milk shake please.
Man: I haven’t got Peanut milk shakes. I only got the albatross. Albatross!
Customer: What flavour is it?
Doug Huffman says January 4, 2014 at 5:57 pm;
Naw, not in the case of the Polar Sea. The engine problems would be ‘incidental’ to the decision to scrap the ship. As noted elsewhere, it’s hard times for icebreakers, and especially for the biggest & heaviest.
Really bad ice so degrades shipping, even with icebreakers capable of plowing it, that other solutions defeat shipping. In not-so-bad ice, the very large – and enormously costly – icebreakers are not needed. Lighter models – such as the Aurora Australis and Xue Long – are both sufficient and less costly.
It takes a forest …
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11181470
MV Lyubov Orlova
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Lyubov_Orlova
Lyubov Orlova was refurbished in 1999, and chartered by Marine Expeditions for cruises to the Antarctic Peninsula in 2000. She underwent extensive renovations in 2002 and was subsequently chartered by Quark Expeditions for the Antarctic and Cruise North Expeditions for the Arctic.[6]
Accidents and incidents[edit]
Lyubov Orlova ran aground at Deception Island on 27 November 2006.[7] She was towed off by Spanish Navy icebreaker, Las Palmas and made her own way to Ushuaia.
I watched the video, and I didn’t see anyone thanking the Chinese pilots. Not one little clip. Any normal TV crew would put that in if it happened, so it looks as though no-one said “Thanks, guys, for flying in Antarctic conditions, and landing on ice, just to ferry us and our matching luggage to a ship that might get us home in time.” Normal people usually thank the bus driver when they get off.
@ ROM “There wasn’t, and still isn’t any real danger to Shokalskiy.’
Hold on there. The ship was running out of booze.
This is serious enough for anyone, but the crew are Russians.
The big question of course is, who was hotter, Ginger or Mary Ann?
the basis of any penguin-population-decimated papers to come!
BBC’s Owen Bennett-Jones: are there more penguins or fewer (than a hundred years ago)?
Turney: tragically fewer. we got in (Mawson’s hut) yesterday lunch-time and, to our dismay, we found the penguin population looks like it is decimated compared to a hundred years ago.
Turney: ARGO – we put tracks on them. just sails over slush.
(5 mins): 20 Dec: BBC World Service Sound Cloud: Re-tracing the steps of a scientist in the Antarctic
http://soundcloud.com/bbc-world-service/re-tracing-the-steps-of-a
The sarcastic name for the ship may have been a little unfortunate…
I thought “Clitanic” was a 70s porn film starring Ron Jeremy. Has anyone checked that we’re not infringing copyright by adopting this monika? Perhaps Ron could make a cameo.
acknowledging the immense cost, RoHa, you don’t think that the Russian crew have sequestered their booze? Anyway, apparently the Chinese helicopter dropped off rations while lifting the sorry asses of the ***** off the ship. 🙂
Seriously, the lack of courtesy of this lot tells you everything you need to know about those who want to “save the planet.” They even had a Marxist historian on board, but when it came to acknowledging the sacrifices and danger that working stiffs experienced, it was all tears and the unicorns have saved us and ME ME ME.
The Chinese helicopter pilot(s) and supporting crew did a brave and dangerous mission, but these creeps and the supportive MSM make it sound like it was one of those rescues in a movie, where you know it’s all going to work out in the end.
Horrible, entitled brats.
Very well put, Johanna.
Why these dedicated “scientists” deserted the ship is a real puzzler.
One would have thought that they would have jumped at the opportunity to hang around to extend their scientific expedition to gather more vital data about global warming.
Unless, of course, running out of booze made further research unbearable.
As several have mentioned, this fiasco is a gift that keeps on giving.
Over eight WUWT threads with 2329 comments within a few days (and counting…), Turney’s junket is on track to eclipse the 2009 Climategate controversy, especially with regard to wide-ranging MSM exposure triggering a majority of skeptical comments despite originally dubious reporting. Main Stream Media even in land-locked countries with little Antarctic aspirations got into the act as chronicled by Pierre Gosselin of NoTrickZone. Example, the Swiss Flagship NZZ (where my own comments were first snipped and censured…) chronicling a detailed interview with Turney’s apologist.
Let’s ride this momentum toward search for scientific truth and let’s hope that there will indeed be no loss of life.
There is no doubt in my mind that the 2013/14 Antarctic research programs of Australia, France and the US have been hampered severely, and that China and Russia are also heavily invested. Scorn from these institutions coupled with insurance issues and the public back-lash will cut down the grand-standing of Chris Turney and his milkshake associates (indeed, a priceless self-interview…) – let them continue to make fools of themselves.
Nevertheless, I suggest it’s time to move beyond the rants, the taunts, the smears and the ridicule and take the high road.
Knowledge about Antarctica is pivotal to understanding of the Earth’s climate system – the exposure now created can be turned into positives. Examples: Support for Australia’s Antarctic research program under a new government, especially crucial in view of immense summer heat (check up on the good work under true Mawson spirit here: Australian Antarctic Magazine – Issue 22: Mawson Centenary Special 2012).
And… the US indeed needs a new Polar Icebreaker program! As does Canada…
cheers,
ulrich lobsiger
the missing links to my 7:01 PM comment :
http://notrickszone.com/2014/01/03/expedition-communication-director-alvin-stone-climate-warming-led-to-the-vessels-awkward-predicament/
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-us/publications/australian-antarctic-magazine/2011-2015/issue-22-2012
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Maybe in French. English syntax doesn’t like that switch, atall, atall.
[Until everybody’s text is perfectly typed with NO formatting errors ANYWHERE and NO spelling errors in ANY dialect of ANY language are used here, the mods do not want any more snarky grammar comments from any user. Clarity requests are desired and requested, but snarks? Mod]
The AGW cult is so predictable. I predicted this type of backstroking http://cosmoscon.com/2014/01/03/the-mother-of-all-climate-ironies/ They are the true deniars.
Yawn. Populations swing by far more than 10% annually. (That’s what ‘decimated’ means – reduced by 1/10, not reduced to 1/10, as the illiterate think). And different species can vary in opposite directions, depending on their adaptation modes. And on and on. Oh, the fact that there was open water to the shoreline 100 years ago may have relevance, too.
Interesting: at the end they mention there’s a part 2 to this video but it appears to have been scrubbed from their site. I wonder what was said on that video?
worth noting that on Turney’s own webpage he describes himself as a “Professor of Climate Change”!
Also very interesting from the ABC site:
What are the Chinese looking for down there? They can’t be too happy that one of their ships is out of action disrupting their obviously very busy program in the Antarctic…
If this wasn’t so pathetic and egregious in terms of innocent lives put in peril to save Turney and his ” expedition” from his own folly it would be laughable. Seems a good technical legal team could illustrate that through ignoring select data and/or neglect, that advance knowledge of the risks of freezing sea ice conditions existed, prior to embarkation, and choices were made by scientists(?)to promulgate an expedition plan that was hap hazard and inordinately filled with risks for which the proper and full scope requirements (equipment and planning) were not implemented. Perhaps the over inflating of the cost of Mawson’s trip stating it at 25M in today’s currency (and reduced scoping) made the ask of 1.5M for Turney’s proposal seem not only paletible but a veritable bargain to his handlers, and vis-a-vis competing interests. A classic game that is pervasive in the least cost bid game, caveat emptor. All speculation and opinion of course, but so too is the subjective nature of the topic of AGW, when considering hedonistic data adjustments, correction factors, and the manufacture of exogenous events used to disqualify data sets that do not support your intended message. I pray that the brave sailors on the Xyue Long and Shokalskiy are made safe. As stated in previous posts, the Sholaskiy will likely be locked in ice for millennia.
Akademik Shokalskiy crew includes females
Voice of Russia article yesterday mentions:
The Russian and Chinese media have a lot more detailed coverage of their respective vessels, than we see in the Western press.
“davidmhoffer says:
January 4, 2014 at 3:15 pm”
Turney’s primary audience is the Australian “scientific” community (Flannery, UNSW etc etc), politicians, the propaganda machine (ABC/SBS/ALP/Green/BoM/CSIRO etc) and most of the public. They have all been brainwashed into believing CO2 is “carbon pollution”. Most people don’t know the difference between an element and a compound. Most people know carbon (Coal) is black and dirty so the constant use of the word carbon by alarmists fits well with the AGW narrative, “All that carbon in the air”. As is said here in Aus by anti-democracy supporters, you can’t have a coalition (Govn’t) without coal. What they forget is the last Govn’t was also a coalition (ALP/Green/Independent).
He really doesn’t explain why it was “pseudoscientific”.
They had a dendrochronologist aboard. I would presume to study ice rings.
“Useful Idiot says:
January 4, 2014 at 7:48 pm”
Resources, that’s what they are looking for. And not only in Antarctica. The Chinese are conducting serious exploration in Africa, and to my knowledge extends well beyond east and the horn of Africa. Last time I was there (Ethiopia) the hotel I stayed in was full of geologists, oil/gas engineers and the like. The geologist I got talking to hinted that most hotels at that time were full of such like fellows, working for the Chinese.
Dr. Turney explains it all in the first sentence:
“The last 24 hours have been very sobering”.
Explaining clearly the prior state of mind.
Stevo, what is the likelihood both ice bound ships will being damaged by the pressures of the ice that is trapping them. Just as well they are made from iron than wood? Now the Americans are on their way, there is nothing more that can be done for the rescued passengers. Turney is responsible and thanks for the ABC pre trip coverage this scientific voyage was always walking on thin ice? LOL.
…if we are seeing the start of the next overdue glacial period, then Canada, the USA, Scandinavia, Northern Europe, Russia & Siberia will succumb to glaciation once again. Where will billions of people live & what will they live on? Soylent Green?
I propose covering as much of the ice and snow as possible with carbon black. Oh. The irony.
“Duvidl says:
January 4, 2014 at 7:36 pm”
He’s the head of the Climate Change Research Centre (CCRC) at the University of New South Wales (UNSW) here in Sydney. But, also noted here and in other threads, he is the director of a company called “Carbonscape”, registered in New Zealand. Tim Flannery (Former head of the now disbanded Climate Commission) is a shareholder. Given the number of media types on board it clearly was a media stunt under the veil of the lable “science expedition”.
Political Junkie says:
January 4, 2014 at 6:52 pm
Why these dedicated “scientists” deserted the ship is a real puzzler.
One would have thought that they would have jumped at the opportunity to hang around to extend their scientific expedition to gather more vital data about global warming.
Unless, of course, running out of booze made further research unbearable.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No, what made further research unbearable was that all the data they were collecting was going counter to their “precioussssss” theory. 🙂
24 INTERVIEWS LISTED, GOING BACK TO 2006, BUT ONLY ONE IS NOT LINKED.
Interviews, Chris Turney
Carbon Tax and You video, Sydney Morning Herald iPad edition (10 July 2011)
http://www.christurney.com/interviews.html
I’d say the truth of Mawson is hidden within what is written: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawson.
A well-heeled English-Bob to be emmigrated with wealthy father industrialists to Australia before 1900.
In 1912, with the run-up to world war I in full sing Mawson turns to academia and well-heeled financial interests for help to avoid military service as did many others in the “Heroic Age Of Antarctic Exploration” [cough cough].
Finding himself in the midst of Antarctica “with-out-a-paddle” he kills and eats the “Scientific Expedition” dogs and his companions to survive.
Finally, “rescued” well into 1914 and beyond the beginning of World War I Mawson can return to Australia and his family riches and rest assured he will not serve in the British campaigns against the German Hund.
http://users.humboldt.edu/ogayle/hist111/WWICaricatureMaps.html
“The ‘Spirit’ Of Mawson” now that IS a smelly one for sure!
Eliza says:
January 4, 2014 at 4:46 pm
From what I see at BBC, CNN etc this is not even a story. We are given the impression here that this is big… its not even on the MSM radar as usual.. Unfortunately AGW as usual again wins.
Our local paper ran an AP version of the story in which there was no mention of “scientists” or global warming.
SIG INT ex – if Mawson was a draft-dodger, he sure chose a strange way to do it.
Go away. Your comments (no doubt the product of some Marxist historian like the one on the trip under discussion) are worth less than yellow snow.
Useful Idiot –
this was part two –
26 Nov: ABC Lateline: Team selection a life and death decision
MARGOT O’NEILL: Perhaps most scarily, there will also be members of the public onboard. Thirty public berths were sold over two legs to help fund the expedition.
CHRIS TURNEY: There are berths for sale, so if people are interested and would like to come south with us there’s flyers outside. You would be most welcome.
MARGOT O’NEILL: But it’s not exactly a luxury cruise and one of Australia’s Mount Everest heroes and an Antarctic veteran, Greg Mortimer, was brought on to find the right kind of people…
CHRIS TURNEY: It’s that sort of extreme environment. The smallest mistakes can cascade into a disaster.
MARGOT O’NEILL: He claims there was a remarkable cover-up of one such mistake and that it cost Robert Scott his life…
MARGOT O’NEILL: The problem, says Professor Turney, is that weeks earlier another member from Scott’s team had raided supplies and eaten more than his share, leaving Scott short one day’s provisions.
CHRIS TURNEY: What’s been repressed is that actually some of the other members of the party took more than their fair share…
MARGOT O’NEILL: Professor Turney’s expedition is unlikely to face such desperate hardship.
CHRIS TURNEY: This is arguably the most important piece of equipment on the whole expedition. Forget the science, I’ll have a revolt, especially amongst the Kiwis. This is a portable espresso making machine.
MARGOT O’NEILL: Chris Turney’s wife Annette and two children Kara and Robert are also going with him to help blog, Tweet and broadcast about the experience for schools around the world…
And if you want to follow Chris Turney’s adventures he will be blogging about the expedition on the ABC’s science website.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3899674.htm
Speaking of the Chinese. The warn about eating the bao jin hsueh.
. If the ice depth grows any deeper I suspect both will be locked up in ice and unrecoverable.its a shame, all on the backs of an AGW fools errand.
worth less than yellow snow.
Well I did it in Chinese. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/04/the-clitanic-hot-sheet-news-from-the-spiritofmawson-fiasco/#comment-1525002 So there! Heh.
Thanks for the vid link pat. Turney seems like a likeable fellow but entirely un-serious. Missed his calling – he would have made a good game show host.
The Chinese are planning to get out on their own. Here’s the English editions.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/202936/8503559.html
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014-01/04/content_17215855.htm
Johanna
Learn some history before you try to silence someone’s contribution. Mawson married GD Delprat’s daughter just on the outbreak of WWI in 1914. It was a fortutious marraige in terms of our heroe’s military career. Very well connected Mawson got an appointment as a Major in the Ministry of Munitions, No doubt he fought a tough war in the ledgers of the Ministry.Delprat was busy not only paying for our hero’s marraige but had commenced the construction of the BHP Newcastle steelworks in hasty preparation for the slaughter in Europe. Mawson is very much a model for Turney not as an explorer but as an entrepeneur/scientist – Turney has considerable shareholding in Carbonscape, with his family members and that other global warming booster Tim Flannery. O and his partner in Carbonscape, Tim Langley is a Kiwi tour boat skipper that takes a 73 year old vessel called Faith down to the Marlborough Sounds. The corruption of science starts where it meets an equity price. Must check the share price of Carbonscape on Monday morning.
RACookPE1978,
Just to let you know you’ve described a snowball Earth at 4:22 pm
“from the south pole up to latitude 60 north”
SIG INT Ex says January 4, 2014 at 8:30 pm;
Actually, Mawson received his Bachelor of Engineering in 1902. He began his career in Exploration, and published formally, in 1903. Within a short time he was well-established and a clear up-and-comer in the field.
He joined Ernest Shackleton in 1907. He turned down an invitation from Robert Falcon Scott in 1910. He had become a ranking figure in Heroic Exploration, and an esteemed scientist, many years before WWI loomed on the horizon.
… As they say, SIG INT Ex’ story “doesn’t even come up to wrong”.
So far as I am aware, the cruise ship carrying climate scientists, their fellow propagandists and other tourists was not in danger of sinking.
Neither was there any imminent threat of starvation to the people aboard the ship.
The only threat confronting the people aboard the ship was delayed departure from their current location together with the inconvenience and possible expense which they may have incurred as a consequence of this.
While the law of the sea and international treaties may require other ship owners and crew to partake in rescue efforts, at their own expense, when there is a danger to life, I do not believe that this is the case, when there is only a risk of inconvenience or additional financial burden.
Consequently, the Chinese should have stated that they would only assist in “rescue” efforts when all affected parties had negotiated a fare price for their services and would only commence operations after they had received payment.
Neither should Australian or any other taxpayers been obliged to pay for the irresponsible self-indulgent follies of the CAGW propagandists.
The passengers should have been compelled to raise the money for protection from the consequences of their own folly, by soliciting donations from their supporters and told that they would be released, when atmospheric carbon dioxide was sufficient to melt the ice or their friends had paid sufficient money to ransome their from the supposedly non-existent sea-ice.
The condition of the ship could have been monitored and a genuine rescue operation undertaken only if a genuine risk to life arose.
The Guardian and the BBC could have reassured the public that the climate scientists were not endangered, but merely inconvenienced by the sea ice, which had not disappeared, despite the alleged Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming, which they were studying, whilst frolicking upon thick sea ice, where one hundred years ago, Douglas Mawson had encountered open water, despite the lower concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, then.
Doubtless, the Guardian and the BBC would still insist that we should bankrupt ourselves and freeze in the dark, in order to fight the problem of “disappearing sea-ice”, which disappears, only in computer simulations, but not in Antarctica.
connolly says January 4, 2014 at 9:11 pm;
Mawson was already a good catch for a ranking girl, of some years standing. He’d been in the leading echelons of Exploration for a decade, and his place in history assured for more than half of that.
With hostile homework like this, Mawson’s reputation is secure.
The 12:00 GMT 4th January 2014 Sitrep from ‘Aurora Australis’.
‘With a new group of people on board means a new supply of presentations. Everyone is keen to show us what they have been up to so I look forward to letting you know what topics are covered as they occur.’
We’re looking forward to that too mate!
Delprats, Mawsons and Spriggs were exceedingly well-connected in science and engineering circles, including BHP, some still to this day. Spriggs still own Arkaroola in South Australia, that has abundant uranium and other mineral resources.
PS, I once worked in newspapers with Mercia Delprat, and had interesting conversations about this period over a glass or two, when I was still working on my shorthand and too young to see a good story and take notes.
How many good stories have gone missing because young reporters are too young? Especially at present, when young reporters are too young to recognise that they have been compromised by institutionalised indoctrination?
The starting age for journalism should be 50, because at least by now we have an idea of how much we thought we knew, but didn’t.
SIG INT Ex says January 4, 2014 at 8:30 pm;
The quality of your analysis (of Wiki!) could go some way to explaining a number of recent military fiascos. Perhaps it’s just your evident hatred of ‘English-Bobs’.
Did you really mean to say that he ate his fellow explorers?
I remain confused by the Mayday call.
If, as everyone concerned keeps stating, the Russian vessel is not and was not in danger, why was an emergency called?
Mayday is urgent call for help, lives in peril, drop what you are doing and rush to render assistance.
This looks more like a change of charter, treated as a big joke by all of the expedition members.
Are there no consequences for calling emergency at sea, when none exists?
In a previous thread a commenter asked for suggestions for a memorable name for this fiasco. Someone suggested TurkeyGate and another suggested AntarcticaGate.
I suggest The Escapades.
(A play on The Icecapades, a US-centric ice-skating show.)
I am still left wondering as to why they needed to be rescued at all?
The Spirit of Mawson – if not the homage to global warming – would have been better served if the children and the sick and the tourists had been evacuated, leaving the intrepid scientists to brave some little hardship for a week or two! Or had the booze run dry?
http://ktwop.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/why-was-it-necessary-to-rescue-the-antarctic-wimps-expedition-if-the-crew-can-remain-aboard/
PS: Or “The Escapade.”
Minerals …
China flags its Antarctic intent January 11, 2010, Andrew Darby
Fair use excerpt:
Watch out for the polar panda. China has just stamped a giant footprint on Antarctica.
With the same strength it apparently flexed in the Copenhagen climate talks, Beijing has steamrolled the Antarctic status quo.
Previously it was simply not done for any country to say outright that it was interested in Antarctica for the resources it contains.
Now China has.
It’s 20 years since Australian prime minister Bob Hawke led a global campaign to overthrow international plans to manage Antarctic mineral exploitation.
More – see link above
Auto says:
January 4, 2014 at 1:20 pm
Bob Greene says:
January 4, 2014 at 12:40 pm
“… flying pigs loop the loop – with a barrel roll on top.”
—
[The mods point out that the newly required loopy-pig barrel roll will leave the pigs upside down at the end of the loop. This site is not responsible for the ultimate flight safety of any such inverted pigs above the viewing crowd. Mod]
In theory, a second loop on the Möbius strip would right the pig again. In practice, even the best athletes can only do one loop. The general population doesn’t care for it at all.
PPS: Or “the Antarctic Escapades.” I think that’s the best, because the other ones aren’t explanatory enough. (Few in the general public will know in a year who Turney was, or the names of the ships.)
ktwop says:
January 4, 2014 at 10:35 pm
I am still left wondering as to why they needed to be rescued at all?
—
Ah, that’s a common misunderstanding, it was the Russian crew who were rescued.
can anybody know if the Australian CSIRO is connected with this GOV,T funded site seeing tour
“Lewis P Buckingham says:
January 4, 2014 at 11:29 pm”
His first degree level qualification was English literature. Whether he is a respected mammologist and biologist or not he certainly does not appear to have any qualifications relating to atmospheric phyics and climate. He is/was a director on the board of a geothermal energy company here in Aus that received millions in Govn’t grants as well as being a shareholder in Turney’s Carbonscape company.
Ted
Mawson’s brilliant military career ranks with that other conservative hero Menzies. A meteroric military career in the University of Melbourne Rifle regiment cut short by the advent of World War I. As for Delprat and Mawson they profited hugely from the war whilst the “lower orders” as you would describe them were slaughtered in their millions. Mawson was no hero either on the ice or in the Ministry of Munitions helping his father in law to make a fortune. Are you seriously suggesting that influence and power didn’t get Mawson a safe sinecure during World War I? Where do you do your study. – Boys Own?.
Johanna
Maybe you should read some Marxist history. Mawson wasn’t a draft dodger because in World War I Australia resisted the imposition of conscription. The conscription issue split the Labor Party and was defated in TWO referendums. Maybe before you attempt to denigrat someone’s point of view you might do some research?
Start with David Day’s history of Mawson –
” Historian David Day has published an excellent, excoriating and long-overdue account of Mawson’s 1911-14 Antarctic expedition. Time for truth.
Mawson lost two men – Ninnis and Mertz. When I visited Antarctica I buttonholed two American Antarctic scholars aboard ship who were in Mawson’s thrall. I told them I was from Adelaide (Mawson’s adopted home town – he was English) and a chill of thrills came over them. I told them about the bust of Mawson on its plinth at the intersection of North Tce and Pulteney St. Tragically, a woman’s car missed the corner and collided with the statue and she was killed. “So”, I told them, “Mawson is still killing people”.
Mawson was detestable, an appallingly bad leader, a self-obsessed, aloof, unfeeling, unsympathetic martinet. He was a liar, a cheat, an ignorant navigator, a poor scientist, a dreary diarist, and a ham-fisted writer.
He was sullen, boring and inept. He was generally loathed by those he led and his peers. He was also an adulterer and a bully.
His great talent was self-promotion. He was such a successful mythomaniac that the very myth he created of himself has taken over a century to be properly challenged. He manipulated evidence and the reputations of his crew were inextricably linked to his own so Mawson was slow to be challenged and diaries are just being published now.
He may have deliberately delayed the deliverance of his expedition by another year of windy white hell so he could make a better entrance into civilisation well after the return of the Scott party and the successful Amundsen party.
This also bought him a year to build the myth of himself. He cruelly denied his team members use of the telegraph as only he could be news.
And he was a cannibal. He ate Mertz. He lied about that and Mertz’s desperate death ensured Mawson’s survival. ”
How appropriate that Turney is following in this pretender’s footsteps.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/peter-goers-douglas-mawson-and-tom-playford-were-portrayed-as-heroes-but-were-they-really/story-fni6unxq-1226756402933
Looks like it is only bad weather at spiritoftitanic nothing to do with climate change. So we are back to the ‘no ice = global warming, lots of ice = weather memes.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/03/antarctica-ice-trapped-academik-shokalskiy-climate-change
“Chris Turney, leader of the Australasian Antarctic Expedition, says his critics are wrong: the team was prepared, the risks were known, and much was achieved
The last 24 hours have been sobering. I am sitting in the comfort of a cabin on board the Australian icebreaker the Aurora Australis, one day after evacuating the Australasian Antarctic Expedition from our Russian-crewed vessel, the MV Akademik Shokalskiy. After sleepless nights thinking about keeping everyone safe, it is a relief to know everyone is on board the Aurora and well.”
…..
[Large number of swear words] EVERYONE? So the Russians do not count only his friends.
That statement alone is enough to make anyone with the least sensitivity view this man with utter contempt.
The B@$..d never even bothered to say one word of thanks to the crew and captain he has endangered. On the other hand I am sure the Russian Captain tore a strip off him for not getting ‘his exhibition’ on board fast enough to allow the ship to get the heck out of danger.
This fiasco has legs – long ones. American Thinker article: http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/01/2014_lets_change_the_climate.html
CHRIS TURNEY: Well, the fundamental issue is if you didn’t have carbon in the atmosphere, the planet would be about minus 50 degrees centigrade, give or take – that’s what you’d have. So a little bit of carbon warms the planet, and that’s good, it’s where we’re at today – an average planet temperature of about 14, 15, degrees.
If you put more carbon in the atmosphere, you’d expect the planet to warm, and basically that’s what you see…
….
God grief, what a crock! Hasn’t the man ever heard of WATER? Oh well it is pretty obvious he doesn’t respect it. No wonder Mother Nature decided to whomp him up side the head, not that it did any good.
Political Junkie says: @ January 4, 2014 at 12:55 pm
Questions that might be asked of Turney:
Why aren’t you still on the ship?….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Because the Russians wanted to be shed of the idiots. Note the entire crew volunteered to stay on board rather than be in close quarters with Turney’s Turkeys. I certainly do not blame them.
Auto says: @ January 4, 2014 at 1:20 pm
Just for you link
Slacko says: @ January 4, 2014 at 1:43 pm
Does Donna’s book come in hardback…
Unfortunately not: http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/my-book/
The Wall St Journal:
“Fossil-Fueled Ingenuity to the Rescue in Antarctica”
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303370904579294842962248258
“…But where Mawson barely escaped with his life, the icebound researchers, questing after evidence of global warming, seemed most threatened by a storm of global ridicule.
Beyond the obvious jokes stirred by the story’s basic outline, it’s worth noting how much better off today’s adventurers were than Mawson’s team, thanks to the wonders of modern technology—much of it decidedly fossil-fueled.”
connolly wondered @ January 5, 2014 at 2:30 am;
Connolly,
I’m seriously suggesting that not only will mere aspersion and innuendo prove ineffectual, but the indulgence itself will reflect poorly on the very horse you rode in on … shading & obscuring potential merits it could otherwise theoretically possess.
Ted
Some good may come of this Christmas Turkey fiasco. The USA may now get one or more of it’s new ice breakers and perhaps something larger than the existing Polar class vessels. Australia may also now get her new ice breaker. However, Russian Antarctic tours may see reduced business as the vessels that are really capable of such tourism work are nuclear and all are found in the Arctic.
The Chinese vessel may have become stuck due to inexperience. The Russian vessel with people out on the ice and an inadequate means to get them back quickly had limited options, though one of those might have been to have abandoned them to shelter in the Mawson facility and there await rescue. But with a child out on the ice that option was not really available and so the captain of the Shikalski simply had to wait even if that meant the ultimate loss of the ship. Though perhaps if the kid was back on board and the party on the ice were all adults then perhaps the master of the Shikalski should have told them to get to the Mawson station and left to await helicopter rescue.
It could be argued that no expeditions to the Antarctic should occur without suitable equipment, appropriate ships and helicopters. Clearly the Turkey expedition was not adequately equipped, nor was the Xue Long, inexperienced and helicopter with wheels, no floats or skis. This would likely mean that none of the existing vessels in the Antarctic region are in fact suitable and that the Russians should use vessels such as the Yamal or some of the new much larger vessels about to come on stream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamal_%28icebreaker%29
But it would need to berthed in Cape Town since the Aussies are a bit wimpy when it comes to having nuclear powered ships around. As for the international agreement on no-nuclear in the Antarctic- tear it up.
Gail Combs says @ January 5, 2014 at 3:18 am;
Some minor clarification is in order.
Originally, we know that the rescue or evacuation was to involve all 52 members of the Mawson group, plus 4 members of the Russian crew.
The Russian crew includes 5 females. A cook, 2 “stewardesses”, and 2 “waitresses”. The later 4 females would most likely be for the comfort of the passengers – the Mawson group. So, when plans were made to fetch the passengers back to civilization, personnel nominally in the ship’s crew for their benefit (not for the rest of the crew) were automatically slated to be shipped off with them.
Apparently, these 4 girls lodged a protest with their Captain Igor Kiselyov. Their probable complaint might be liberally translated along the lines of; “Bollocks, bozo! We are assigned to this ship, and we are not going with them. Now, you get back on the horn and straighten it out”!
And, evidently, that’s exactly what Capt. Igor did.
The esteemed Prof. Turney said: “If you put more carbon in the atmosphere, you’d expect the planet to warm, and basically that’s what you see…”
Turney expects to see it, so does, although notice the qualifier “basically”. Even the tried-and-true CAGW Believers are hedging their bets now, looking for an out.
Ted Clayton says: @ January 5, 2014 at 6:46 am
Some minor clarification is in order….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I noticed that and figured given a choice of being stuck in ice or stuck with Turney’s Turkeys the few crew members who were to be airlifted decide they rather risk the ice after a few more days of the whinging and whining. Says a lot about the Turkeys manners doesn’t it?
Take a look at this quote :
“In sum, a strategy must recognise what is possible. In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.”
This is a quote from the IPCC report of 2001, back when that body still recognized that predictions of the sort made by Turney’s colleagues are fantasy. As the world fails to warm, an even greater faith is invested in the faulty climate models which have so far proved worthless.
Turney’s current employer, the University of New South Wales, published a report that appeared in Nature on 1 January, claiming that current climate models under-estimate the level of warming, which could reach 4ºC by 2100.
A question that needs to be asked about Turney’s expedition is how come the only journalists aboard are from the Guardian, which has sent two reporters, the BBC and Radio New Zealand – all eager mouthpieces of the global warming lobby.
Who is going to be paying for this fiasco? Efforts by Turney and his co-leader Chris Fogwill to crowd-fund money have been an embarrassing failure. They wanted to raise $49,000 in this way – a small fraction of the $1.5 million overall costs – but they managed to raise only $1,000 from 22 people. Not even the promise of a signed copy of Turney’s book, “1912: the year the World Discovered Antarctica” was enough to tempt donors into action: not a single one chose to receive the book.
British taxpayers, needless to say, have been forced to pay up. One of the sponsors is the University of Exeter, Professor Turney’s previous employer. The university is fast on its way to taking over from the University of East Anglia as the “global warming” worshiper’s chief mouthpiece. Universities claim to have fallen on hard times – unless it comes to broadcasting the “global warming” hysteric’s case : Exeter has just launched a “massive open online course” on climate change which the public are all invited to sign up – all for free. I don’t think I would be pleased about that if I was paying tuition fees for one of Exeter’s other courses.
Dr. Turkey is in more hot water. He is being poached and now roasted.
After thousands of comments on several threads on Mawson-Turkey, still I think no-one has voiced an opinion similar to mine on the attribution of costs, which is as follows.
The insurance industry is pretty solidly behind CAGW because it allows them to ramp up profits from those willing to pay increased premiums against supposedly expected extreme weather. Therefore, since some insurance policies will almost certainly be in place to cover calamities to those involved in the Turney expedition, either as members or rescuers, the insurance adjusters will bend over backwards in the interpretation of the clauses in those policies, and ensure that adequate insurance is paid out. This will avoid unseemly (to their mind) litigation of Turney et al to recover costs.
So, all of us insurance premium payers, especially those insuring against the weather, will pay for this. Actually, much as I’d like to see Turney sued, I don’t mind that much – it’s been good entertainment so worth the money!
Rich.
I think I understand now the purpose of this leg of Turney’s expedition and why they brought along four photojournalists. Get photos of the struggling penguin colonies at Commonwealth Bay. Heart wrenching photos of starving penguin chicks that can be used for CAGW propaganda. That is probably the most important “data” they wanted to get away with, and getting that “data” is probably what left them stuck in the ice.
This would replace the use of the Polar Bear for CAGW propaganda, which hasn’t gone too well since the Polar Bears are doing quite nicely.
The penguin colonies at Commonwealth Bay have declined because of thick year-round fast ice, held fast partly because of the presence of iceberg B09B. B09B calved off the Ross Ice Shelf in 1987 (not 2010 as Turney claims) beginning a multi-decade chain of events that leaves it near Commonwealth Bay today.
I don’t see that any of these events have anything to do with “global warming” especially since this area of the Antarctic has not been warming. In fact, the penguins would probably be doing better if it had been warming.
I believe it was a “call for assistance” not a mayday call. First intent was to get the other ships to help them get clear of the ice buildup, after that proved a failure, aside from those who commented it was a “rescue of the Russian crew”, I think a legitimate case could be made that by taking the “tourists” off the ship you reduce the risk of loss of life if the hull was compromised by the ice build up. Much easier to manage a holed hull if you only have the ship’s company to worry about rather than also dealing with 52 untrained passengers and getting them out of harms way while you deal with damage control and try to save the ship.
I see it as a logical effort to reduce risks rather than a “rescue”.
connolly says:
January 5, 2014 at 2:45 am
” … Time for truth. …”
—-
Truth should not include speculation reported as fact. You appear to have developed an irrational hatred for a dead man (the nice thing about libelling dead people is that they can’t really defend themselves.)
Negrum
I am as skeptical in regard to the myths of history as I am in regard to CAGW. By the way if you want some real speculation your hero while he was fighting a tough war in London for the Australia munitions producers is alleged to have bedded the widow of Scott – two years aftr he married Delprat’s daughter. I don’t have a irrational hatred of Mawson just a healthy scepticism when it comes to mythical heroes. The reason you cant libel a dead person is that reputation dies with the indivdual. They enter into history. And history is not a respecter of reputation – only the truth. Turney sought to exploit the myth of Mawson. As history shows myths die in the face of harsh reality.
connolly says:
January 5, 2014 at 12:54 pm
Negrum
I am as skeptical in regard to the myths of history as I am in regard to CAGW. By the way if you want some real speculationwhile he was fighting a tough war in London for the Australia munitions producers is alleged to have bedded the widow of Scott – two years aftr he married Delprat’s daughter. I don’t have a irrational hatred of Mawson just a healthy scepticism when it comes to mythical heroes. The reason you cant libel a dead person is that reputation dies with the indivdual. They enter into history. And history is not a respecter of reputation – only the truth. Turney sought to exploit the myth of Mawson. As history shows myths die in the face of harsh reality.
——
” … your hero … ”
——
Don’t try that trick. I never indicated that I considered him a hero. It does not help your case.
I find your search for “truth” to be based on highly questionable methods. Be careful to clearly distinguish between verifiable facts and hearsay/speculation. You appear to be prejudiced and subjective in the analysis of Mawson’s character (whatever his real faults) That is not the mark of a sceptic.
Stating outright that Mawson succumbed to cannibalism (not that I particularly care – survival is played by different rules than when sitting comfortably and well-fed in front of a computer) when the only evidence I can see is deduction and speculation by the author of Flaws in the Ice, I consider misrepresentation. Acceptable at the National Enquirer, but it doesn’t fly here. If you have any more evidence, I would appreciate you sharing it.
I am not particularly interested in speculation about public figures’ private lives (dead or living). I leave that to breathless teenagers who are fascinated by the activities of celebrities.
And to set your mind at ease concerning my regard for Mawson, I do not suffer from hero-worship, but I have a healthy respect for people who perform remarkable deeds under difficult conditions. Mawson seems to fall into this category. This is to be contrasted with those who spend their time attacking the reputations of the living or the dead for whatever obscure personal reasons. It seems to me to show a lack of good character, not scepticism – as you want to characterise it.
——
” And history is not a respecter of reputation – only the truth.”
——
If you subscribe to that idea, you are more naive than I thought. The “truth” in history (especially human history) can be very subjective, and depends a lot on the view of the one writing it it. That is why it is difficult to classify history as a formal science. Though they do keep on trying to 🙂
In case I have not made my point clear: Mawson is dead, but CAGW is alive and doing far too well up to now.
Turney’s estimate of the current cost of Mawson’s expedition being $20-25m instead of $4.2m is not just related to a general lack of perspective on magnitudes from climatologists. It is a failure to see the net benefits. Mawson’s expedition was doing something original – establishing (possibly) the first buildings on a continent and seeing if it was possible to live there. It was akin to to Skylab 40 years ago in this respect. Also there were no satellites, so any information on ice changes, or temperature data was completely new and original. Further, new species of animal, bird or fish might be found. Any discoveries by Turney would be extremely marginal compared to this. Getting stuck in the ice also appears to have jeopardised on-going research, so the opportunity costs, in terms of the research forgone, appears to be much greater than Mawson would have achieved.
The Expeditions must also be looked at in the context of the time. Early in 1912 Robert Falcon Scott died with his team on the return leg of their journey to the South Pole. They aimed to be the first to reach the South Pole, but were beaten. In Britain, Scott was revered as decades as a great hero, despite his failure and amateurishness. So an expedition a few months later would have attracted support. “Heroic” failure would have hit the headlines around the world as much as if they had discovered a white Antarctic mammoth. Now, with the satellite photos, and rescue, there is no heroism in amateurish failure.
The leader of the “expedition” , Professor of “Climate Change” CHRIS TURNEY said :
“Well, the fundamental issue is if you didn’t have carbon in the atmosphere, the planet would be about minus 50 degrees centigrade, give or take ” !
Show me the calculation . That’s about 54 degrees below the gray body temperature in our orbit ( ~ 279k ) and implies a solar versus IR reflectivity ratio about 0.4 . Given our observed absorptivity/emissivity with respect to the solar spectrum of about 0.7, assuming the planet radiates as a perfect black body in the longer waves , gives the endlessly parroted 255c ( – 25 c ) minimal possible temperature . ( 279 * ( 0.7 % 1.0 ) ^ % 4 ) ..
To have an equilibrium of 223k in our orbit , you would have to have an albedo wrt the Sun of
( 223 % 279 ) ^ 0.25 |>| 0.41
This is the bold first line from Turney’s bio page: By a series of accidental turns and a healthy dose of serendipity I have ended up exploring the world. http://www.christurney.com/
Rife with irony, that one is.
Setting up eco-tourist trips for paying clients and recruiting investors for his green company = “healthy dose of serendipity.” Turney has been enjoying others-funded jaunts for years. His tweets and public comments show the depth of his scientific knowledge.
This morning ~07:30 am UTC on Dutch radio station Q-music: interview with oceanographic scientist Erik, speaking Dutch fluently, about his stay on icebound Akademik Shokalskiy. They finished their ‘science’ before the ship got stuck, then had a 9-day vacation until evacuation by the Chinese helicopter. Major worry: the party was threatened to be spoiled by running out of beer and gin-tonic. Views of ice and penguins were beautiful.
HOW TO FREE SHIPS TRAPPED IN ICE
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0eBv5RdpJPeOUphdU5IQU1WRmc/edit?usp=sharing
PROFILE LINK
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steven-belsky/42/835/625
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please make comments (upper right (FOR ME) click next to SHARE)
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Steven Belsky says @ January 7, 2014 at 9:52 am ;
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