From Tom Neslon who writes:
Barking madness in the New York Times: Global warming blamed for coldest winter in China in 30 years and many other extreme cold events; story illustrated with a photo of snow on the palm trees of Jerusalem
Extreme Weather Grows in Frequency and Intensity Around World – NYTimes.com
All this recent shift to pushing “extreme weather” in the clueless MSM made me wonder how the public is responding to it. Obviously, the use of the term has been dramatically on the rise, in fact it is a veritable hockey stick:
Source: Google ngram viewer (note: data only available to 2008)
But, I was really surprised at the public response. It seems that the public just might be smarter than the MSM and the AGW doomers think, or maybe they are just fed up with hype. Search trends on Google are flat:
Source: Google Trends
It seems that “extreme weather” is not catching on. I’m sure the doomers would say it is a “communications problem“. Compare “extreme weather” to the peak from Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth in 2007. All terms seem to be in an interest slump now.
Further, it seems to be mainly an English speaking aberration, the rest of the world apparently has even less interest.
Not to worry though, there’s still room on the leader-board for a new meme once the MSM and the doomers realize that “extreme weather” has fizzled out as a propaganda communications tool:
Thanks Anthony…I saw some of this in the NYT’s today (blaming snow in Jerusalem on (presumably AGW induced) “extreme weather.” Have to own that I am a liberal democrat, and they make me ashamed of my own party. If I didn’t have this place to go for a measure of sanity, I might just go nuts…
I like “Climate Optimum”, but somehow I don’t think the alarmists will endorse its use.
11 Jan 2013 – 11:27 am
[ Hey, the climate IS changing! ]
————————————-
~ Echo chamber of global doom is no more. ~
(11 Jan 2013) http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20130111/new-york-times-dismantles-environmental-desk-journalism-fracking-climate-change-science-global-warming-economy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That’s because we all know weather can be extreme, so this is just creating a disconnect between the climate changing meme and the new message that they just didn’t expect. People are just not falling for this AGW rebranding…
Oh and weird is too hard to spell for some of the alarmist numbskulls…
If you want a real good laugh read Eugene Robinson’s Op-Ed in the Washington Post. That guy shouldn’t be allowed within 10 feet of a keyboard.
Jerusalem sees snow almost every winter.
Full Show: Ending the Silence on Climate Change
January 4, 2013 | Moyers & Company
Climate change communication expert Anthony Leiserowitz explains why climate change gets the silent treatment, and what we should do about it.
It is just a communication problem. The science is settled. The ipcc’s estimates of warming are way too low. This show was total garbage. Look at Time Magazine’s science page the amount of deliberately misleading “science” is shocking
The third type of proof is what can only be called a Scarem. Whatever extreme weather event comes along, attribute it straight away to climate change and scare the pants off them. It doesn’t matter if there’s not a single shred of scientific evidence to back up that assertion.
http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2013/01/11/the-shape-of-things-to-come-snailbats-halsays-scarems-lewpapers-and-dickpols/
Pointman
best news in years for Israel, which has been suffering from a +decade long drought in the region (a region where shortage of water leads to War, btw). The Kinneret (Lake of Galilee) is up 2″ in the last few days, and they’re expecting that to double over the week as the hills drain the meltwater. I suppose it may also begin to replenish the aquifiers which have been drawing down well beyond danger point (point at which Mediterranean saltwater begins to infiltrate. Thank G-d.
Not clear why the Gray Lady sees this as ‘a bad thing’ 😉
More interestingly …
New York Times Dismantles Its Environment Desk.
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20130111/new-york-times-dismantles-environmental-desk-journalism-fracking-climate-change-science-global-warming-economy
Pointman
I don’t allow people off the hook, and insist on using the words “Global Warming.”
It helps if you can imitate Al Gore’s voice, and if someone states it is now politically incorrect to use the term “Global Warming,” use your Al Gore voice to say, ‘Oh? It has changed from “The planet has a fever” to “The planet took an asprin?” ‘
The snow in Jerusalem has resulted in some neat pictures:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2260223/Jerusalem-hit-worst-snowstorm-TWENTY-YEARS-inches-falls-Holy-City-closing-roads-schools.html
Anyone who believes global warming causes extreme cold is delusional, and the public is aware of the same.
Anyone stupid enough to read the New York Times will find kindred spirits there.
Climate change is a magical animal. Every summer it causes heat waves, and every winter it causes record cold. In the last few days I have seen articles that claim melting polar ice both warms and cools the climate. I wish they would make up their minds. How do you falsify a theory that predicts CO2 can both warm and cool the planet and cause “extreme” weather to boot?
The cold spell in China right now is being blamed on melting polar ice. Somehow the melting ice warms the Arctic, which changes the jet stream, which causes record cold and snow in China, Russia, and Europe. How can such a small region of the Earth cause record cold across huge land masses when it is WARMING?
A theory that claims every climate event as proof of its validity is no longer scientific but religious.
I have been noticing extreme weather changes on a daily basis.
It seems to get warmer during the day and colder at night.
The daily climate is much more unstable now.
It is frightening what evil people are doing to the Earth.
We need a new law or tax to stop this chaos.
Or maybe a big blanket around the planet would help.
But a big blanket might make the warming even warmer.
Then Earth would begin sweating and make the blanket wet.
Then it would get colder and we would all get a cold too.
All the sneezing would change the wind patterns and we could die.
Boy are we screwed.
Crazy stuff.
Crazy.
I want to be a climate scientist if I grow up.
I would fit in well.
The next “great threat to the planet” is against “biodiversity”. Just watch and see over the next few years how everything is a threat to biodiversity and we should all pay a little more to maintain “SUSTAINABILITY of biodiversity”
“Global warming blamed for coldest winter in China in 30 years and many other extreme cold events”
Barking madness indeed. As I’ve been saying for years now, cAWG is a crock of horse pucky because it’s an entirely unfalsifiable hypothesis. Record warm? Global warming. Record cold? Global warming. Record rain? Global warming. Record drought? Global warming. It’s become plainly evident that there isn’t a single observation that would disprove the hypothesis. As such, IMO, cAGW is little more than a fairy tale.
@pokerguy Don’t worry about it, the wife is lefty as left can be (and married to a libertarian, how does that work?) and she regularly laments to me about all the idiots she wishes she didn’t have on her side.
There’s enough people out there, on all sides of the political spectrum, who lack the critical thinking skills necessary to do anything other than spout talking points and memes. A worrying number of these people are in the media, political system and the upper echelons of academia.
Personally, I like “Gerbil Warbling” as the most accurate term for the phenomenon.
Its worse than we thought. Seems the warm-cold has spread to California.
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Cold+snap+expected+worst+years+affecting+Californias+truckers/7807067/story.html
The term “the planet has a fever” causes me to think of if I have a fever, that is my auto protective immune system kicking in and the fever is the cure. So you would want the planet to get “hot” to fight what is ailing it. If you didn’t get the fever, your body would have been taken over by the disease, virus or bacteria. Once this crazy obsession of CO2 battle is over, I will spend a lot of time on studying biology, as I’m rather weak in knowledge in that area. Though by mother is a lab biologist (retired). I should study to improve my writing skills as well. If I’d only know the Internet would exist while I was still in high school, as well as cheap, light, mobile computers 🙂
Pokerguy hits on something. Why does the Left buy all of this extreme weather/climate stuff?
Why is this a political thing at all? Apparently a majority of the American (and World) Leftists are anti-business, anti-profit, anti-fossil fuel, anti-internal combustion, anti-success, etc. They latch on to this extreme climate crap to further an agenda of economic destruction, because they feel that “One man’s success is another man’s failure.” And it just isn’t fair!
I think the alarmists should go with the term “weather distortion”. At least there would be some truth in it.
A logging ban in federal “old growth” forests wasn’t about the spotted owl, it was about decimating the evil logging industry. CAGW isn’t as much about saving the earth as it is about defeating the evil oil and coal industries. I am not claiming that there is some sort of organized conspiracy but more of a ideological shift toward environmental advocacy independent of any real threat.
I often consider trying to talk to people on blogs and news papers about climate change, I’m only a recent convert to the dark side (the data not following the predictions is what seeded the doubt “the 16 years”.) It seems for many people that the 16 years of no warming, the not really understanding why that happened and all that stuff isn’t the least bit worrying. Because they have their narrative, it was taught to them in school, or by the media.
I mean how can you argue with people who say “What data shows no warming for 16 years? The entire 21stC has been warmer than the 20th!” and then post a graph showing no warming since 1998. What happened in the 90’s is actually not that important why you consider the implications of the models getting it so spectacularly wrong for the early 21st. It means the science is NOT SETTLED, CO2 is a driver, but perhaps not the main driver. Especially considering that it was easily swamped by “natural variation”. What happened to those temperature increases being guaranteed? Locked into the system?
These are all concerns of mine, and why I want to hear a less one sided debate about climate change. I hope, really hope, that we are starting to see that now. It doesn’t really matter what the public or the media think, they will think what they are told to think. What matters is whether the honest scientists are having the same doubt I am and make further investigation into all possible causes.
The author of the article is:
Sarah Ly-all
Recent and archived news articles by Sarah Lyall of The New York Times.
I would pronounce that Lie-all.
Assessment: All-Lie.
@ Hal44 and pokerguy
“Hal44 says:
January 11, 2013 at 9:21 am
Pokerguy hits on something. Why does the Left buy all of this extreme weather/climate stuff?
Why is this a political thing at all? Apparently a majority of the American (and World) Leftists are anti-business, anti-profit, anti-fossil fuel, anti-internal combustion, anti-success, etc. They latch on to this extreme climate crap to further an agenda of economic destruction, because they feel that “One man’s success is another man’s failure.” And it just isn’t fair!”
I think more than a few liberals (me included) read WUWT and are starving for some propaganda-free science. Generalizations like that just drive us away and serve to polarize us more.
Get with the program, folks, it’s CLIMATE CHAOS!
S.Meyer: Completely agree, it’s because of the many anti-liberal comments on here I actually chose my name. I wanted to make it clear, this isn’t isn’t just a liberal vs conservative conversation.
Where I come from it’s not even a political debate really, that seems to be an american phenomena. Which is perhaps why, in America the debate has split along party lines for many (but not all I’m sure).
…Further, it seems to be mainly an English speaking aberration, the rest of the world apparently has even less interest….
I have a feeling that the whole AGW issue was mainly an ‘english-speaking’ phenomenon. It helped that English is the ‘lingua franca’ for intergovernmental bureaucratic communication, and the doling out of largesse – I get the feeling that most non-english-speaking countries attitude has been “Yes, we’ll keep making the noises so long as you keep giving us the money’…
as long it is not “extrem climate”….weather is not climate
Give ’em enough rope and crooks will hang themselves.
Malice or stupidity, it does not matter, this weather is caused by acts of evil mann,meme is as old as spoken language.
Its great to see the faithful latch onto this meme, it allows everyone to openly laugh at them.
Ridicule is good for fools.Even the, trust in authority, folk can taste the idiocy of;
” Look what you made the weather do.”
Storm = extreme weather event? Well duh.
@ Penny Robinson thanks you’re right, I was just flipping thro my copy of Chaos, Making a new science; By James Gleik.
Climate chaos is the average of 30? years of chaotic weather?
Thanks Anthony . . . for demonstrating you can make anything look like a hocky stick . . . I think you should do the same thing . . . for “over the cliff”. You know, push the exaggeration envelope both ways. Just warn us . . . because if you are not prepared, you can still break a leg in a six foot fall.
Oh really! Here’s that thing of the past striking all over the place.
Hal44: 9:21: “Pokerguy hits on something. Why does the Left buy all of this extreme weather/climate stuff?”
If you dig deep enough you will usually find fear of war coupled with a “noble savage/blank slate” view of man that says all the ills of the world are the result of civilization (mostly capitalist Western Civilization) and that we can and should change our society to avoid apocalyptic destruction.
Personally, I agree that a very destructive, population reducing, war is coming, but the “noble savage/blank slate” view of man is a load of bollocks. The war that is coming is a natural phenomenon and will not be avoided.
13 years ago I might have nodded at some of the comments on such articles.
7 years ago I would have been slavering at the hip to point out the obvious to the clinically deranged, nut-job wackos creating and commenting on such articles.
2013 – when I can be bothered I just shake my head at the absurdity of ignoramuses with the capacity to reply to the ‘confirmation’ email that allows them to comment on such articles.
This time period describes the arc of my attempts to rise above the mire of what becomes more obvious with every year – it’s a politically empowered device to extract treasure from all of us.
I fall often.
“Further, it seems to be mainly an English speaking aberration, the rest of the world apparently has even less interest.”
It’s not very surprising that the large majority of Google searches for English terms are done in the English speaking world, is it?
I just found out that “globale Erwärmung” is mainly a …German speaking aberration!
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22globale%20erw%C3%A4rmung%22
🙂
When someone uses subjective as opposed to objective reasoning, then an article appears like the one above. We have not had floods of “biblical proportions” at all, just a c**p summer. Here in Newcastle we had one afternonn of rain that we do not normally have here, with thunder and lightning, I have seen exactly the same thing in Florida in July 2011. The difference between Florida and here is that the infra-structure is built to deal with it, ours isn’t because storms like this are not that common, so why should we spend billions on storm drains and flood protection when the cost is disproportionate to the risk?
Before anyone tells me that this is what the article meant, we have had other “extreme” weather events long before AGW was invented (Summer 1976, Winter 1963 being just two I can bring to mind). History is full of extreme weather events and I am certain that CO2 is not responsible for any of them.I am equally certain that blaming AGW on “hot” and “cold” events is not logical and that weather and climate are two entirely different things!
Partially in response to Dodgy Geezer says:
I am a long-time resident of Costa Rica and have spent some time in Colombia. The media in both countries usually do not have independent reporters in the US, UK etc, but rather depend upon wire services and translation bureaus for news outside of Latin America, and especially environmental news. The reading public here is subject solely, and this is no exageration, to the AGW point of view.
In the New York Times article I see this:
Then at the end of the article I see the reporters involved.
Could it be that the focus on reporting extreme weather is “growing more frequent and intense”?
When will these irresponsible nuts stop their barrage of garbage?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/climatic-phenomena-pages/extreme-weather-page/
That’s easy. It wasn’t and isn’t. The scam is alive and well here, unfortunately.
Jimbo says:
January 11, 2013 at 10:12 am
——————————–
But Jimbo, that’s back then when it was supposed to snow like that.
With all the warming now, it’s not supposed to snow anymore.
That’s why now it’s unusual and extreme.
Forget the idea that it’s actually normal weather.
It proves the global warming weird weather… see?
sarc.
John West says:
January 11, 2013 at 8:24 am
I like “Climate Optimum”, but somehow I don’t think the alarmists will endorse its use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That is because the Holocene Optimum was warmer than the present day and the y do not want the plebs to google Holocene Climate Optimum WIKI and find that out. /sarc> (No doubt the wiki will now get changed)
Another reason people are getting turned off is the ostentatious use of money: In our local town there are two new renewable energy shops (everyone else in the high street is struggling), they modestly call themselves “The Good Life Inc” and outside their premises they park their brand new four wheel drive land rovers.
Across the unspoiled countryside there are brand new wind turbines, each one subsidised from our heating bills and each one making fat profits of millions of pounds for the owners which are given to them tax free. I think people are waking up to the fact that the scare stories are being used to raise taxes and make money.
The frecast is for a lot of snow in the UK next week.
I didn’t think snow was allowed anymore under Met Office rules.
Anyway, some idiots can be guaranteed to bleat that global warming, climate change or whatever is the cause.
Yes, that meets my prior documented definition of crazy–it is the claim that cold can be explained with global warming. It’s now time to set up the time capsules to leave stories for our poor progeny on the turning points in our pathetic history and their future predicament or perhaps humorous lession learned.
I can’t help but hope that even the most scientifically naive reader can process:
o coldest winter in China in 30 years
o -50F in Russia
o worst snowstorm in Jerusalem in 20 years
….and NOT think to themselves that something doesn’t add up.
For the less scientifically challenged, it seems to me that if there were more extreme weather events (not saying there are, I doubt it, but if it were true) this would be a sign of a cooling earth. In a warming earth, the colder parts warm the fastest and warmer parts the slowest, reducing the temperature differential between them. Night versus day, winter versus summer, high latitudes versus low latitudes, high altitudes versus low altidudes… Less temperature differential = less energy differential = less severe weather.
But in a cooling world, the opposite is true. The cold parts cool the fastest and the warm parts the slowest, increasing the temperature differential between them. night/day, winter/summer, etc etc. So a cooling world implies greater temperature differentials = more extreme weather.
I do not want to be too fussy but it seems to me it’s normal english speaking aberrations cannot be seen in non-english speaking countries. For instance in French, “phénomènes climatiques extrêmes” has a pretty good score : http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=phénomènes+climatiques+extrêmes&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=19&smoothing=3&share=
In Mann acception I mean.
Hal44 and Pokerguy, climate science has nothing to do with politics at all. Some “so called” climate science lost credibility when this mixing was started. The IPCC is mainly a political organization and that’s a huge fragility because they usually mix politics with “science”. I only see this pseudo-alignment of opinions about climate with “right” or “left” in the United States. I´m not a USA citizen, I consider myself a leftist and I am a huge skeptic about the role of the “so called” Man Made Global Warming in the climatic dynamic. My opinions are aligned with most of the writers and commentators of this blog. Please put the discussion into the science and not into a pseudo climate war between Left and Right. That’s not climate anymore, that’s stupidity! Hal44, I’m not against success, fossil fuel, business or profit. Your vision about “left” might be very distorted… at least about my left 🙂 You don’t want me to put all the “right” related with certain things of a certain right… isn’t that true? Please stop and avoid this non-existent relationship between political positions and positions about climate science!!
I thought this was interesting, from the article:
Barry Lynn, who runs a forecasting business and is a lecturer at the Hebrew University’s department of earth science, said a striking aspect of the whole thing was the severe and prolonged cold in the upper atmosphere, a big-picture shift that indicated the Atlantic Ocean was no longer having the moderating effect on weather in the Middle East and Europe that it has historically.
“The intensity of the cold is unusual,” Mr. Lynn said. “It seems the weather is going to become more intense; there’s going to be more extremes.”
So we have ‘severe and prolonged cold in the upper atmosphere’?
Remind me how CO2 produces that.
Push the button on this nonsense. http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2012/03/handy-bullshit-button-on-disasters-and.html
I was always under the obviously mistooken impression that snow melts when the temperature goes up.
Oh this darned cruel heat!
Miguel Rakiewicz says:
January 11, 2013 at 8:26 am
~ Echo chamber of global doom is no more. ~
(11 Jan 2013) http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20130111/new-york-times-dismantles-environmental-desk-journalism-fracking-climate-change-science-global-warming-economy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That information (“The New York Times will close its environment desk in the next few weeks and assign its seven reporters and two editors to other department”) needs to be link to who OWNS the Times. From The Tallbloke Talkshop
Kind of interesting that a bailout of Times shares in November of 2010 (after the midterm elections) followed by the closing of the Environmental Desk now.
Can we hope this is the start of a quiet slinking away from the CAGW scam? Although Obama funded the scam for another year, I would not be surprised if this is the grace period when the big players/campaign donors (Al Gore anyone?) start to beat feet for the exit, leaving the little guys holding the bag. It is the same sort of scam Al Gore and Maurice Strong pulled with Molten Metal Technologies.
This would also explain why we are seeing IPCC and NASA starting to acknowledge the sun as a larger player in the climate
Also the next big bubble is already gearing up and big money is moving in. It is Food/Farmland and that will be as nasty for the little guy as global warming is. See my comment.
You don’t need a weather man
To know which way the wind blows.
— Subterranean Homesick Blues, Bob Dylan
The promotion of AGW is HIGHLY political. (Earth can be saved by taxation, for example.)
Now, it would appear, there are admitted leftists that are “deniers” of that fact.
I have never understood why being sceptical about the science of global warming makes one right wing! I do understand that some left and right wingers have latched on to the debate and used to further political agendas of their own, but the issue here is not political, it is the integrity of science and the reputations of the scientists (especially on the warming side of the argument) who seem willing to tolerate, or even turn a blind eye to, corruption inside their community.
With the one-tailed byword “global warming” being replaced by the catch-all “extreme weather,” maybe the hockey stick icon ought to be replaced with a dustpan.
S. Meyer says: @ January 11, 2013 at 9:48 am
….I think more than a few liberals (me included) read WUWT and are starving for some propaganda-free science. Generalizations like that just drive us away and serve to polarize us more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am with you there. Liberal/Conservative is an artificial divide used by the powerful to keep the plebs at each others throats instead of going for theirs.
Start following the money and digging and you find nothing is as you thought. link
With regard to politics: I admire Anthony’s light moderation policy and wouldn’t want to see that changed, but I do tire of the political invective that creeps into some of the comments. It’s completely counterproductive to the discussion. Perhaps Anthony, if in agreement, would consider discouraging this?
@ Julian in Wales:
” …. ostentatious use of money … renewable energy shops …. brand new four wheel drive land rovers.”
LOL … In Wales, memories are long 🙂
Back in about 1979 the new land rovers of BNF (prospecting for nuclear waste dumps) were a dead giveaway. (One or two ended up with a shotgun blast through the radiator.)
Back then renewable energy meant “too many poles needed to connect to the grid” and the only “shopfront” was at Machynlleth.
(We escaped in late 1986 to the western Pacific, on one of the last trains out of Mid-Wales before the big blizzard hit.)
I got an outdoor thermometer for Christmas for the first time. Since I started tracking temperature on January 1, 2013, my back yard has experienced the coldest temperatures ever in its “recorded” history (in fact, there has been a record eleven straight low daily temperatures set to date). Amazingly, my yard has also experienced the warmest daily temperatures in its “recorded” history (eleven straight record high daily temperatures). I’m predicting more of the same throughout the remainder of the year, but all my computer models (and my cat) indicate that the number of record highs and lows set in my back yard will begin decreasing substantially as early as 2014 and taper off further in subsequent years. This extreme weather stuff is truly unreal.
RE: Jimbo says:
January 11, 2013 at 10:12 am
Thanks, Jimbo, for that great collection of links. The one about the snow in Jerusalem in 1957 is especially handy, as it roughly fits the idea that extreme weather follows some sort of 50-70 year cycle. I noted that article mentioned it was the “worst snow in seven years,” (1950.) The current snow in Jerusalem is the worst in twenty years. (1993.)
When you meet someone who has swallowed the Kool-Aid, they will say any sort of current extreme is “unprecedented.” It is handy to just give them an old headline. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but an old headline is worth a long, poignant, and embarrassed silence.
Caleb says:
January 11, 2013 at 8:51 am
I don’t allow people off the hook, and insist on using the words “Global Warming.”
It helps if you can imitate Al Gore’s voice, and if someone states it is now politically incorrect to use the term “Global Warming,” use your Al Gore voice to say, ‘Oh? It has changed from “The planet has a fever” to “The planet took an asprin?” ‘
========================================================
I agree that we should continue remind people that the original scare that started the regulatory ball rolling was “We’re all going to fry!”.
But maybe we should offer them some alternative names for what the scare has morphed into since “Extreme Weather” doesn’t seem to working for them.
“HyperWeather”?
“HypedWeather”?
“Gaia’s gone Wild!”?
It is indeed clear that many news organisations are gently shifting their positions away from the ardent doomsterism of the late 20th early 21st centuries. However, ‘news’ is and always will be about hype and selectivity and fashion and politics. And there is a hard core of loyal organisations that simply have too much to lose, both in terms of reputation and funding, if they were to recant.
For example here in Australia, the state funded, Green leaning ABC has been desperately pumping a minor heat-wave and a thankfully mild fire season…it does this to provide background support to its master; the doomed Green/ Labor coalition government who introduced the disastrous Carbon Tax.
Conversely it remained silent all through last winter and spring with regard to record low temperatures, late frosts, Queensland snows etc etc.
The ABC does have a social media presence but interestingly this is heavily and indeed cleverly ‘rigged’ to give the impression that the whole world sees things its way. It does this by only allowing only one or two skeptical comments (usually of poor quality) to appear and then letting them be swamped, by right thinking Warmists. I of course am totally banned!
So what can we do to defeat this censorship?
The answer is simple, at every available opportunity, speak out in public and social circles – most ‘Believers’ are not committed zealots, they are in the main decent caring types who have been sold the idea that CO2 is threatening their wellbeing and indeed their existence!
I’m often amazed at the ignorance of, and gratified by the responses I get from some people.
You can see it in their eyes when you deploy checkable facts like 1/25th part of ONE PERCENT of the atmosphere is CO2…. or right now the temperature 5 miles above your head is MINUS 50 C, or direct them to the Danish National Museum so that they can see how Greenland was settled in the 10th century.
One killer fact coming from the mouth of one real human being can introduce the seed of doubt into the ‘wavering masses’ and sometimes start the process of independent thought.
Blogs are great, this one in particular, but the real battle for hearts and minds will be won down at grass roots level, face to face. Starting today.
Back at the peak of the AGW hysteria, did anyone think they’d see this satement: “Global warming blamed for coldest winter”
a little kidder says:
“I want to be a climate scientist if I grow up.
I would fit in well.”
Sorry, you have to grow in body, but NOT in mind.
Only then are you fit to be a “climate scientist” (of the catastrophic warming type)
Julia Indigo says:
January 11, 2013 at 11:44 am
I thought this was interesting, from the article:
Barry Lynn, who runs a forecasting business and is a lecturer at the Hebrew University’s department of earth science, said a striking aspect of the whole thing was the severe and prolonged cold in the upper atmosphere, a big-picture shift that indicated the Atlantic Ocean was no longer having the moderating effect on weather in the Middle East and Europe that it has historically.
“The intensity of the cold is unusual,” Mr. Lynn said. “It seems the weather is going to become more intense; there’s going to be more extremes.”
So we have ‘severe and prolonged cold in the upper atmosphere’?
Remind me how CO2 produces that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually the propagandists are well aware that the PDO (graph) has shifted to a cooler phase and the AMO (graph) is in the process of switching to a cooler phase. North Atlantic Heat Content 0-700 meter depth (graph to present)
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out this is going to cause the climate to shift especially when the jet stream also goes from zonal to meridional and you get blocking highs and you are sucking polar air or tropical air into the temperate zone.
Info. and graphs stolen from Climate 4 You
The following paper (abstract only, it is pay-walled) shows there exist points in time when the above ocean cycles synchronize and desynchronize. The cycles the paper considers are the PDO, the North Atlantic Oscillation NAO, the ENSO Index, and the North Pacific Oscillation NPO. These cycles constitute an interconnected complex over the globe. They model the behavior (computers again) as a complex system comprised of coupled anharmonic oscillators and identify three points in time during the 20th century (c. 1910, 1940, 1970) when the sychonization underwent a major shift, and these times of course correspond with significant changes in the temperature trend. The next shift if it follows the 30 year cycle would be ~ 2000 and that is what we are seeing.
The Abstract:
geran says:
January 11, 2013 at 12:23 pm
The promotion of AGW is HIGHLY political. (Earth can be saved by taxation, for example.)
Now, it would appear, there are admitted leftists that are “deniers” of that fact.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Being ‘leftist’ does not mean you left your brains at the door any more than being ‘conservative’ does. Most people who come to WUWT have their brains ‘in gear’ and that is all that matters.
The world map of results for ‘Climate Change, Global Warming’, etc. is interesting but a similar search in German. ‘Globale Erwärmung’. results in Germany and Austria coming to the fore. Nevertheless English speakers in India do not seem too bothered. The level of interest is certainly declining. You can’t fool all of the people all of the time.
In Australia, with a hot period and bushfires caused by Green prevention of ‘burning off’, especially in Tasmania, the Warmistas are on a roll. They are unaware that in the 1930’s it was hotter still and that Black Friday in 1939 burnt 2,000,000 ha. of land in Victoria’s 237,629 km2 area, and killed far more. There were 71 people killed that day
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. ” H.L. Mencken
Here in Australia we are being turned OFF as we are being treated like 2 year olds buy the Gov,t ,news papers, tv news THE ABC etc if a hot day is forcast they tell us how to dress stay indoors do not eat too much if you must go outside wear a hat sun glasses sun screen take plenty of water tell sombody what you are going to do dont over exert your self don,t leave the kids or dogs in the car don,t go into a bush fire prone area close all the windows turn on the A/C if you dont have a A/C go to the local shopping center PS if thay can afford to run a A/C, unit because of the carbon tax we are told it is all our fault because we are using power to run our A/C using a coal powerd generation and we are all going to fry I could keep going but i am starting to get depressed . I think I will stay home and hide under my bed
After the PM trotted out the climate change line about our sudden summer heat wave (fancy that in summer?) and associated bushfires the Opposition pointed out the obvious to the carbon taxers-
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/climate-change-link-to-heat-fires-utterly-simplistic-says-warren-truss/story-fndo28a5-1226550415035
Naturally government grant scientists had to get in on the act with their climate chaos thingy backing up the PM’s climate change scolding opportunity.
Ho hum. Another weather event, another proof of climate change.
not sure if any one has seen this, it has to be one of the most barking mad things on climate change I have ever read-
By Miranda Leitsinger, NBC News
The plight of a pod of killer whales that got trapped by ice in a mostly frozen Canadian bay this week was a “good example of what climate change can do” in the Arctic, a researcher said Friday.
Gail Combs says:
January 11, 2013 at 2:23 pm
Most people who come to WUWT have their brains ‘in gear’ and that is all that matters.
1) I’m glad you stated “most”.
2) I’m glad you get to determine what matters.
With Oz you need to bear in mind the First Fleet rolled up in sailing ships in 1788 to plant the Union Jack on ‘Terra Nullius’ as they described it at the time. Not a lot of Stevenson Screens onboard at the time and lately we’ve been scolded incessantly at how the thermometerless original inhabitants were here for thousands of years but no matter, climate chaos it is and naturally it’s all the fault of a current pale skinned generation or two. Never mind aboriginals used to burn off vast tracts of bush for hunting purposes and Oz flora has adapted specially to that over the centuries.
No it’s all about the here and now and in that regard with the increasing mediocrity of our cloistered Sandstones, I have no doubt we’re no different from the narcissism of the present and future movers and shakers who think only they move and shake Gaia-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20756247
richard says:
January 11, 2013 at 2:55 pm
not sure if any one has seen this, it has to be one of the most barking mad things on climate change I have ever read-
By Miranda Leitsinger, NBC News
The plight of a pod of killer whales that got trapped by ice in a mostly frozen Canadian bay this week was a “good example of what climate change can do” in the Arctic, a researcher said Friday.
===========================================================================
Global Warming dooms the polar bears. Climate Change dooms the orcas.
Don’t they remember what they said yesterday?
The movement gets stranger and stranger…
What happened to good old ocean acidification or the even older meme of rising sea levels?
Sometimes I just can’t keep up with the speed warmists are changing their narrative according to their needs.
I read this statement in a report of the UK Met Office
The Met Office says despite the change, “we will continue to see near-record levels of global temperatures in the next few years”. …..
I fear this is absolutely right – which ever side of the fence you sit – the temperature isn’t going to plunge over night. That being the case we should be prepared for some pretty “extreme weather” over the next five or six years. The “noise” (of up to 0.8 degrees C) may cause it to drop here and there but the moving average has a lot of inertia to over come. I predict the “extreme weather” meme has years of currency left in it before we move to the “global cooling” meme.
geran says:
January 11, 2013 at 3:12 pm
Gail Combs says:
January 11, 2013 at 2:23 pm
Most people who come to WUWT have their brains ‘in gear’ and that is all that matters.
1) I’m glad you stated “most”.
2) I’m glad you get to determine what matters.
======================================================================
“Brains in gear”? Then why are you here?
(Just thought I’d reply to you with the same depth you replied to Gail.)
observa
…the Opposition pointed out the obvious to the carbon taxers-…
Mr Truss, who is the leader of the National Party, leads the political equivalent of WUWT-thinking in Australia. To give foreigners a sense of what is going on here – I am not aware of a single National Party representative in either the House or the Senate who supports AGW science.
The context here is a plethora of local, regional, state and national heatwave and temperature records being smashed, that is to say, not just being lifted by .1 of a degree or so. Although 350,000 ha of mostly farmland has burned in one state alone, and well over a hundred houses have burned in several states, it is fairly clear that Australia has so far dodged the real bushfire bullet this season. This is, IMHO, mostly the result of some very, very good fire response set-ups, and the dedication and willingness to take risks of thousands of fire fighters. Governments plus volunteers have mostly got it right. Individual homeowners have also smartened up a bit since multiple fire-related deaths in recent years.
Amidst the stinking heat, Mr Truss, a canny politician, has tried to pour cold water on what he reckons are the over-heated imaginations of the faint-hearts.
But – his Coalition has a policy to spend $10 billion to reduce CO2 emissions in Australia by 5% by 2020.
You want the ‘obvious’? This is the ultimate in cynical political behaviour. He can’t have it both ways. Either climate science is crap or he wants to waste $10 billion.
BTW, the National Party’s stronghold is rural Australia. By far the strongest demographic of those who deny climate science, propotionally, live in rural areas so there is a natural symmetery between the National Party positions and those of its supporters.
The other day on the radio Mr Truss’s natural constituents were complaining, literally, about failed grain crops, burnt pastureland, burnt houses, burnt shedding, burnt fences and stock killed by fire, stone fruit ‘boiling’ on the trees (head of the stone fruit association or wtte, so he must have known what he was talking about), runs of forty+ temperatures making it very hard to work cattle, fruit not setting on tomato plants, petrol in engines vaporising, and the horrible consequences of sundry other weather extremities destroying their livelihoods. I was driving through some of the best sheep country in Australia as I was listening to some of this stuff on the radio and the fields were burnt black to the horizon and farmers were reported to be out shooting burnt, but not yet dead, animals.
There is resilience. Farmers in unburnt areas are donating hay and grain. People are donating trucking transport and the Governments at Fed and State level have kicked in with various disaster relief measures including, I understand, interest-free loans.
The other bit of good news is that two years of la Ninas had pretty-well filled all the irrigation dams.
But your adoring reference to Mr Truss is misplaced. Clearly, he talks out of both sides of his mouth.
Historically the greatest swings in extreme happened when it was colder, not warmer. Even CO2 advocate Michael Mann wrote that the Little Ice Age was “more significant in terms of increased variability of the climate, rather than changes in the average climate itself”
There is also a ton of literature on the Dansgaard-Oeschger Cycles where global temperatures varied by 18 to 27°F within 20 to 50 years when it was much colder 20 thousand years ago.
Now they these religious CO2 zealots believe global warming causes all extreme cold events. Omnipotent CO2 works in strange and mysterious ways and controls everything. Once that stance is accepted, there is no scientific way to disprove CO2. Every contradiction that would make a wise man pause and question, is still evidence of CO2. Un-friggin-believable!
observa
Never mind aboriginals used to burn off vast tracts of bush for hunting purposes and Oz flora has adapted specially to that over the centuries.
Indigenous burning was carried out for various reasons. The burning was mostly done in small patches and not by way of ‘vast tracts’. Routine ‘vast tract’ burning is a recent phenomenum – partly caused by the removal of Indigenous people from vast tracts of the continent. Oz flora has not adapted to it and the change in fire regime is a significant contributor to Australia’s extinction epidemic.
Fuel reduction burning in Australia is being hampered by a mixture of the following: concerns about extinction, the increasing close juxtaposition of property and fire prone areas, lack of suitable weather windows, the monstrous amount of paperwork involved in ‘risk’ management for fire management organisations, and the ever-increasing likelihood that if you get it wrong you will be sued, the legal profession having horned into the fire space with a vengeance. Many of the current fires started on private property and farmers who start a fire by negligence, or even allow a lightning strike fire get away by negligence, now risk litigation that would ruin most of them.
Ok so what is to be gained by news orgs continuing the scare go green tactics? Lets have a little look at GE, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric IF this wiki entry is even half correct this company, is “ranked among the Fortune 500 as the 6th-largest firm in the U.S. by gross revenue,[7] as well as the 14th most profitable” They also ” acquired the windpower assets of Enron during its bankruptcy proceedings” and managed to sell more…. Considering they are the PARENT COMPANY of MSNBC, NBC, Comcast and numerous mags and rags.. Do you honestly think it doesn’t benefit their company to keep the AGW theory going? And that is only one way It profits off of this hoax.
If you think ANY of our news organizations do not have a corporate agenda, think again. I can show you a parent company for most of the MSM stations, papers and magazines. It was our mistake to let these huge conglomerates form. The people we sent to DC to watch our backs have been putting cash in their pockets and looking the other way for some time. Now our media is not even remotely what the “fourth estate” was meant to be. The final blame comes down to all of us. Our lazy put the r or the d back in voting… is our ultimate undoing.
mogamboguru says:
January 11, 2013 at 3:30 pm
What happened to good old ocean acidification or the even older meme of rising sea levels?
Are they trick questions? Global sea levels are rising. Ocean chemistry is changing. And the ocean is gaining heat.
Haven’t heard from David Karoly for a while but he sure is stoking up the fire now:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-12/climate-commission-predicts-more-heatwaves-bushfires/4461960
As I recall he didn’t seem quite as sure how to explain the Queensland floods:
“What we are seeing over the last 50 years and over the last 100 years is a change in this pattern of extremes with more hot and more wet extremes in northern Australia and more hot and more dry extremes in southern Australia and that pattern is exactly what we would expect from climate change due to increasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere”
From what I understand of the current Australian heat wave is that it is being caused by a later and DRYER than normal wet season in Northern Australia with little cloud and rain to mask the heat moving over the centre. But no doubt Prof Karoly can pinpoint CO2 as the cause of this in some way or other.
What I find a little strange is that I can recall regular heat waves for the last 50 years but certainly nothing unusual over the last decade or two. Why suddenly this year I wonder?
But I am sure that we will find out who is right in the next 5 years – WUWT posters who say that temperatures are flattening and CO2 has little affect or Prof Karoly who asserts unless we drastically change our emissions Australia will become a summer Thermaggedon. Fascinating stuff!
Rich Lambert says:
January 11, 2013 at 2:37 pm
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. ” H.L. Mencken
Mencken is an over-generalising fool.
He might have changed his mind were he writing that ‘wisdom’ in a house in front of a fire front of a so-called ‘imaginary’ Australian bushfire. Australian governments of all stripes have been trying to frighten the populace about bushfires for some time. Fortunately it is getting through. Houses and property are still being burnt but people are getting smarter.
But, but, but http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/01/11/shock-and-anger-as-new-york-times-eliminates-environment-desk/
Gunga Din says:
January 11, 2013 at 3:46 pm
“Brains in gear”? Then why are you here?
(Just thought I’d reply to you with the same depth)
Exactly….
I think it’s pretty simple. Even a layman should be able to understand it.
If it’s hot it’s global warming.
If it’s cold it’s climate change.
If the weather is atypical on any given day, that’s extreme weather.
You’re going to see a lot of extreme weather from now on due to the global warming/climate change. It’ll be like that town where all the children are above average.
ABC was all over this and the HONEST YEAR EVER…. The dam fools ignore the site data that says it isn’t happening and being the good little commies they are, they promote the agenda for control… even in the face of massive cooling and record lows globally..
Do they know how foolish they look or are there so many low information voters out there that can be deceived so easily?
*** CAUTION **** ******** WARNING ******
Do not get your hopes up the new term is much more subtle. “Sustainable development.” This harmless, actually wholesome and worthwhile sounding phrase has been corrupted beyond belief. Look it up on Wikipedia. This new propaganda has infiltrated the schools, universities (they have deans in charge of insuring all branches of the university incorporate Sustainable development. An now it is infiltrating the government contracts. Look up the mission statements of EPA, and may other government departments. Worse yet it is hidden in everything. Check your local building codes as one example. There is even Sustainable politics!
geran says:
The promotion of AGW is HIGHLY political. (Earth can be saved by taxation, for example.)
All issues involving the distribution of resources and/or their potential redistribution and/or the maintenance of their current distribution are highly political.
Thus BAU boosters who are gaining a quid from fossil fuel are engaged in the politics of maintaining BAU. That means trying to cast doubt on the science of AGW.
Not rocket science. Not even climate science.
OY! “honest” should have read HOTTEST… I hate auto spell check..
Bill H
Could you please provide a link to where did the ABC say that this was the hottest year ever for Australia? If the ABC has not said that it was the hottest year ever, please would you mind admitting that you are making stuff up?
King of Cool
What I find a little strange is that I can recall regular heat waves for the last 50 years but certainly nothing unusual over the last decade or two. Why suddenly this year I wonder?
Good question. The short suggestions appear to be the status of the Indian Ocean Dipole and the late arrival of the monsoon. The direct impact of both appears to be some months of very dry weather and some months of very low cloud cover, both of which have contributed to the development of a massive pool of very hot air in inland Australia. That begs the questions of why the IOD is doing what it is doing, and why the monsoon is late.
If anyone can shed technical light on it, I would like to hear their thinking.
Another extremist David Karoly reported in todays news ‘In a report called Off the charts: Extreme Australian summer heat, one of the authors, David Karoly, says the heatwave has affected over 70 per cent of Australia and longstanding temperature records have been broken.’
climate ace here is the ABC propaganda web site how we put up with these clowns is crazey http://www.abc.net.au/news/specials/climate-change/
How on earth can a 16-year flat temperature cause extreme weathers?
Climate Ace says:
January 11, 2013 at 5:29 pm
===============================
ABC NEWS US….. I should have been more specific. It was on Good Morning America.
Thanks Tango..
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/2012-hottest-year-record-us-extreme-weather-18165787
here is the video link…. ABC US
Instead of Climate Change or Extreme Weather, how about using the phrase “Bad Stuff.” As in “unless I get more funding and control over all of your lives a lot of bad stuff will happen to you.” It’s frightening and vague AND it can’t be disproved. What could be better?
Slightly OT but has anyone been able to access the NASA GISS site – or is it only me?
I think all those promoting the new meme of extreme weather be labelled extremists!
Nice graph in here:
http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/a-graphic-history-of-newspaper-circulation-over-the-last-two-decades
shows New York Times readership plunging below 1 Million and headed for below 900k…
That is less than 1/8 of the population of New York City…
The rate of decent at the ‘recent’ end is breathtaking. I make it about 20% in 2 years or so.
At that rate, it’s 8 years to zero…
Gerard
Another extremist David Karoly reported in todays news ‘In a report called Off the charts: Extreme Australian summer heat, one of the authors, David Karoly, says the heatwave has affected over 70 per cent of Australia and longstanding temperature records have been broken.’
I saw the interview as well, if it was the same one. My understanding is that both of Karoly’s statements are factually correct. Why reporting the factual truth about our current hideous weather makes him an ‘extremist’ is a bit of a puzzle. If I needed an adjective, for Karoly’s statements today, I would have popped in the word ‘realist’.
@Climate Ace:
Do tell, just WHEN was there not bushfire in Australia?
I remember a stunning movie about it. From about 1960?
The archaeological evidence shows it of near geologic standing.
So, I presume you intend to convert Australia to be, what, Poland? England?
Good luck with that…
(FWIW we have the same problem in California, and the same climate (Kopen, not the 30 year average of weather that some fools think is ‘climate’ when it’s only 1/2 a PDO weather cycle). The Redwood Trees of California have evolved a special bark that mostly protects them from the common, and periodic, forest fires.
Oh, and the “California Walnut” is distinguished from the ordinary black walnut by a basal ring of bark that protects it from grass fires (what we call ‘bush fires’).
Oddly enough, a web search:
https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=eucalyptus%20fire%20adaptation
shows Eucalyptus also adapted to fire. Any idea how many hundreds of thousands of years it takes for a species to evolve?
This bit was particularly troubling:
” Most eucalypt species have acquired traits which allow them to promote fires”
Well, that’s it then. You’ll be all for cutting the Eucalypts to extinction to save Australia from the fires then. Can’t have those pyromanic trees running around the place promoting fires and letting all that CO2 back into the air…
(You do realize just how daft your comments make you look do you not? Either hyper political driven to push empty propaganda, or hopelessly ignorant of the ethnobotany and evolutionary history of Australia… I.e, a fool or an idiot. That is ‘inc-or’ BTW for the computer types…)
EMSmith
We live in momentous times. Newspapers are dead or dying. It is a mass extinction event unrivalled in the history of human communications. IMHO, it is fitting that public organs which have contributed so much to AGW in so many different ways are amongst the first casualties.
@ClimateAce:
So that explains why the Wall Street Journal and New York Post are both UP over the same interval…
A suggestion: Do a ‘fact check’ before you put out a cover story ‘for effect’ trying what is commonly called a ‘butt cover’ on a political fellow traveler. The NYT is dying while two other papers in the same area (arguably WSJ is based out of, well, Wall Street) are doing fine. That’s not some generational hocus pocus.
Perhaps if the NYT did more ‘fact checking’ and less greenwash they too would be surviving.
EMSmith
Do tell, just WHEN was there not bushfire in Australia?
I remember a stunning movie about it. From about 1960?
The archaeological evidence shows it of near geologic standing.
Who said there was a period when bushfires (in the sense of fires lit by natural causes) have never occurred in Australia? Not me. Stop pretending that I did.
So, I presume you intend to convert Australia to be, what, Poland? England?
Who said I intend to convert Australia to Poland or England? Stop pretending that I do.
(FWIW we have the same problem in California, and the same climate (Kopen, not the 30 year average of weather that some fools think is ‘climate’ when it’s only 1/2 a PDO weather cycle). The Redwood Trees of California have evolved a special bark that mostly protects them from the common, and periodic, forest fires.
You do indeed have some of the same problems in California that we have with bushfires. In particular there are areas of Australian eucalyptus trees there. Not a good idea, allowing feral eucalypts loose on fire-prone areas. I suggest you guys treat them as environmental weeds and get rid of them.
Eucalyptus – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Having studied Australian fire history and fire ecology at university I am fortunate not to need Wikipedia for some understanding of the dynamics. I am particularly aware of the fire adaptations of many species of eucalypts.
Well, that it then. You’ll be all for cutting the Eucalypts to extinction to save Australia from the fires then. Can’t have those pyromanic trees running around the place promoting fires and letting all that CO2 back into the air…
Not really. The timber industry wouldn’t like it all. For example, veneer quality old growth Mountain Ash is worth literally hundreds of thousands of dollars a hectare. The farmers who get high quality irrigation water from timbered catchments wouldn’t like it at all either. The tourism industry couldn’t do much with a landscape of stumps either. Etc, etc, etc.
(You do realize just how daft your comments make you look do you not? Either hyper political driven to push empty propaganda, or hopelessly ignorant of the ethnobotany and evolutionary history of Australia… I.e, a fool or an idiot. That is ‘inc-or’ BTW for the computer types…)
OK, so you have read Wikipedia, you are an instant expert on the extremely complex topic of Australian forest fire ecology and on that basis you make one of the dopiest judgements I have seen in WUWT. There should be an award for it.
BTW, even if you were an insane economic vandal and insisted on chopping down the small remainder of Australia’s forests you would not stop wildfires.
Many of the recent (and indeed current) fires were/are in pastoral and agricultural farmlands. When the temps are in the low to high forties, when it hasn’t rained much for months, when the humidity is extremely low, and when hot northerly winds are gusting at above fifty kph, nothing much stops fires in Australia. Not even the wisdom of Wikipedia or the foolishness of instant experts.
Bill H
ABC NEWS US….. I should have been more specific. It was on Good Morning America.
Ah. Thank you for the clarification. I had my Australian national cultural blinkers on and was thinking that you were referring to the ABC which is Australia’s national broadcaster.
‘Climate Ace’ 5 million hectares of Victoria burned on Black Thursday 6th Feb 1851. The description does not sound much different to now the link at the bottom gives much useful information. Karoly is not just an extremist he is worse he is an opportunist!
THE WEATHER. ( from the Melbourne “Argus” Newspaper Feb. 8.1851 )
” Thursday was one of the most oppressive hot-days we have experienced for some years.
In the early morning the atmosphere was perfectly scorching, and at eleven o’clock the thermometer stood as high as 117 degrees ( 47.2 Celsius ) in the shade; at one o’clock it had fallen to 109 degrees and at four in the afternoon was up to 113 degrees.( 45 Celsius )
http://home.iprimus.com.au/foo7/fire1851.html
@ClimateAce:
Apparently you can do “Attack the messenger” but not address the message. Australia burns and it is natural and common.
Wiki, btw, was just listed in order along with all the others. That you fixate on it is just more “trash talk”. Again, attacking the messenger.
Your claimed credentials are useless if you can’t address the issues with facts.
Australia burns. It’s a fact. Hyping it as AGW is propaganda. Attack the messenger is so old hat and out of fashion.
Maybe you can get a job on the NYT greendesk… Oh, wait, it’s canceled….
The AGW show is coming to an end. The brighter players are headed for the exits (AlGore just bagged a great oil-funded deal from AlJazeera). It’s snowing from the UK to Israel and from Russia to California to 1/2 way to Florida. The fat lady is singing (er, does Al count as a lady? Just wondering… 😉
So you might as well get used to the idea that folks are onto the major games and swindles and rackets being run. Things like “scare and distort”. And “attack the messenger”. And even “claim perfectly natural events are exotic”. You’ve done all of them, but poorly. Even the nice strawman of asserting I endorsed wiki when I didn’t, just quoted an entire list of sources as the search engine delivered them. Sooo boring.
You’ve pumped out a lot of volume, but darned near no substance. Heck you can’t even fact check by looking at things that were quoted at you in a link.
So enjoy your evening (or morning there?). It’s bed time for me. But please, do try to bring some substance next time.
Checking the Google trend link supplied and typing in “environment” and “sustainability” in addition to those given, it looks like interest has been steadily abating since 2004 (thats as far back as it goes). Since the actual number of searches made on Google must be much higher for 2012 than for 2004, and these trends depicted seem to show total searches rather than a proportion of all searches, then this shows a strong falling away of interest.
In a sad development, the National Academy of Science downtown has partnered up with the illustrious New York Times to address urban climate change:
http://www.nyas.org/Events/Detail.aspx?cid=7e4f6992-05af-40bd-acae-b01a15ee2d26
The reason I present my climate and weather pages in both English and Spanish is to try to compensate for the Spanish-language press and TV feeding exclusively from the “main stream” media in the USA. In Latin America and Spain there is little opinion against CAGW, I think the situation is better in Chile.
It seems to me that what is happening is not more intense weather but more intense reporting. It is similar to the dead birds falling out of the sky in Sweden in 2011. Once the media picks up on something they all go out looking for the same thing, find it, and we get the impression that something odd is happening. In reality birds falling en-mass from the sky is not that unusual.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40904491/ns/us_news-environment/t/more-birds-fall-sky-time-louisiana/
The gray lady has become a sad, dark clown. I feel sorry for NYT subscribers. The death of an informed society should be mourned.
So Climate Ace, what does Jo Nova say about you?
We have a new commenter “Climate Ace”. Full of comment but no substance and I expect no sense of the past. Well Mr Ace when I was in my late teens I worked as a stocky on out-back stations up near Cloncurry and have fought many pre-wet season grass and bush fires started by electrical storms mauraudering across the tinder dry black and red soil country. Some of these annual fires had + 200 mile plus fronts and in order to save our livestock and fences from burning we vainly fought them day after day. I was told at that time by locals that the fires had been an annual thing since ancient times and were good for grass regrowth and reduced the litter buildup under the gum trees. And that Mans recent attempts to tame the land to their will was causing the problems.
The locals also told me of dreadful earlier drought years where station owners slaughtered 100s thousands of their cattle rather than let them starve to death.
Some years later I lived in NSW (late 70s) and experienced the annual raging fires that tore through semi residential areas of native bush surrounding the cities and burnt down houses and claimed lives. I was told then that if people were silly enough to (be allowed to) live in houses built in fire prone bush and without sufficient firebreaks then they deserved to have their houses burnt down.
What we are hearing and reading now are emerging new age Eco Activitists telling us that somehow it’s all our fault that these bush fires are claiming lives and livestock. Whereas the reality is that its Man who is attempting to bend the will of nature to suit their economic and lifestyle purpose, meanwhile Mother Gaia simply carries on doing her own thing.
My brother is the real genius of the family but sadly since moving to the USA and becoming a US citizen he has allowed himself to become brainwashed. He no longer has independent original opinions. Instead he quotes TV opinionistas verbatim and at length. When I rang him to commiserate over freezing temps in LA, he dogmatically stated that global warming was responsible by causing the “jet stream” to move further south. The mind boggles…
James Allison says:
January 12, 2013 at 12:31 pm
We have a new commenter “Climate Ace”. Full of comment but no substance and I expect no sense of the past. Well Mr Ace when I was in my late teens I worked as a stocky on out-back stations up near Cloncurry and have fought many pre-wet season grass and bush fires started by electrical storms mauraudering across the tinder dry black and red soil country. Some of these annual fires had + 200 mile plus fronts and in order to save our livestock and fences from burning we vainly fought them day after day. I was told at that time by locals that the fires had been an annual thing since ancient times and were good for grass regrowth and reduced the litter buildup under the gum trees. And that Mans recent attempts to tame the land to their will was causing the problems.
The locals also told me of dreadful earlier drought years where station owners slaughtered 100s thousands of their cattle rather than let them starve to death.
I am not sure what your point is. I lived in the Top End and am well aware of the Dry Season burns. I am well aware of the history of Australian droughts.
As for the impact of regular fires on soil nutrient status there is plenty of science to show that regular fires are damaging. This does not obviate the usefulness of fires generating a green pick in the following season. It does mean that annual fires are not sustainable over a long period of time in areas where the rate of soil formation is very slow – as it is in much of Australia’s north.
Some years later I lived in NSW (late 70s) and experienced the annual raging fires that tore through semi residential areas of native bush surrounding the cities and burnt down houses and claimed lives. I was told then that if people were silly enough to (be allowed to) live in houses built in fire prone bush and without sufficient firebreaks then they deserved to have their houses burnt down.
Since they sometimes burned to death along with their houses this does seem a bit harsh. If your general point is that the development of built infrastructure should follow some well-known common-sense rules in relation to bushfires, I could not agree more.
What we are hearing and reading now are emerging new age Eco Activitists telling us that somehow it’s all our fault that these bush fires are claiming lives and livestock. Whereas the reality is that its Man who is attempting to bend the will of nature to suit their economic and lifestyle purpose, meanwhile Mother Gaia simply carries on doing her own thing.
When I meet an ’emerging new age Eco Activist’, whatever that is, I’ll believe it.
mpainter says:
January 12, 2013 at 7:50 am
So Climate Ace, what does Jo Nova say about you?
I would not know and I would not care. Is she an expert on monetization?
Jimbo says:
January 12, 2013 at 7:06 am
It seems to me that what is happening is not more intense weather but more intense reporting. It is similar to the dead birds falling out of the sky in Sweden in 2011. Once the media picks up on something they all go out looking for the same thing, find it, and we get the impression that something odd is happening. In reality birds falling en-mass from the sky is not that unusual.
I am aware of reports from around the middle of the last century of thousands of Budgerigahs (Australia’s small desert parrot) falling dead from the sky. Even desert-adapted birds can succumb to prolonged drought and extreme heat. I have seen no good science on trends in birds falling out of the sky. If you aware of any, I would be pleased with a link.
Gerard says:
January 12, 2013 at 2:25 am
‘Climate Ace’ 5 million hectares of Victoria burned on Black Thursday 6th Feb 1851. The description does not sound much different to now the link at the bottom gives much useful information. Karoly is not just an extremist he is worse he is an opportunist!
THE WEATHER. ( from the Melbourne “Argus” Newspaper Feb. 8.1851 )
” Thursday was one of the most oppressive hot-days we have experienced for some years.
In the early morning the atmosphere was perfectly scorching, and at eleven o’clock the thermometer stood as high as 117 degrees ( 47.2 Celsius ) in the shade; at one o’clock it had fallen to 109 degrees and at four in the afternoon was up to 113 degrees.( 45 Celsius )
I wish people here would stop verballing me. I have never said that it wasn’t hot in Australia before. Stop pretending I have. I have never said that there were not big bushfires in Australia before today. Stop pretending I have. We have had some record heat recently. No amount of linking to ‘The Argus’, long since extinct itself, will ‘fix’ the problem you appear to have with record heat.
I am grateful that Karoly is willing to put up with the sort of casual personal viturpretation that BAU boosters think is normal and useful.
Are you Karoly?
Meant to say Climate Ace are you Karoly?
And that was in Oct. 2009, over four years ago.
PS: One of the comments there suggested that much of the liberal readership of those papers had moved to HuffPo.
Gerard
Meant to say Climate Ace are you Karoly?
What an odd question.
Climate Ace, David Karoly is well known for his aggressive response to criticism and his ego is big enough to see himself as an ace.
Climate Ace:
At January 12, 2013 at 5:51 pm you say to James Allison:
Allow me to help translate him for you.
[snip . . site rules . . mod] who has little knowledge and no understanding of what you blather about.
In addition, I add a comment of my own.
Your many very short and pointless posts to this and other threads suggest you are a paid troll obtaining remuneration based on the number of your posts.
Richard
richardscourtney says:
January 12, 2013 at 11:55 pm
Climate Ace:
At January 12, 2013 at 5:51 pm you say to James Allison:
I am not sure what your point is.
Allow me to help translate him for you.
[snip . . site rules . . mod] who has little knowledge and no understanding of what you blather about.
In addition, I add a comment of my own.
Your many very short and pointless posts to this and other threads suggest you are a paid troll obtaining remuneration based on the number of your posts.
Richard
This is a strange post. You have ignored the substance of every single post on the thread. Instead you come up with some (apparently) paranoid suspicions that I am being paid to do this. I can confirm that I am posting because I believe that AGW is the first order issue facing all governments and all peoples. I can also confirm that no-one is paying me to post. I can also confirm that the habit of some posters of making up stuff about me, IMHO, completely undercuts their credibility.
Mod:
Thankyou for your snip of my comment addressed to Climate Ace at January 12, 2013 at 11:55 pm. The deleted comment on Climate Ace was mild and the snip has created a blank which readers can fill with any strong comment they wish to attribute to the troll.
Richard
[you are welcome . . mod]
Climate Ace
It appears that Australia had its highest daily temp max average on record – 40.3C as opposed to 1972’s record of 40.2C. So extreme temps have risen 0.1C in 41 years. One would have expected more.
All individual records broken only go back to the 1950s and no individual state daily record was broken during this heatwave. The BOM only deal with temp records after 1910 so the heat waves of 1896, 1906 and 1908 are not taken into account. Eg Bourke had 22 days of over 40C in 1896, Melbourne had 5 days of over 40C in 1908.
Can anyone find any reference to the heatwave in Dec 1972 – or was it just a one- off event?
Climate Ace:
At January 13, 2013 at 1:05 am you claim
Perhaps you can “confirm” those things. If you can then please do. First you need to say who you are.
Your many content-free posts snowing several WUWT threads suggest you are a payed troll.
Richard
Reading further in that severe weather article quoted in the beginnning one may find: “In Siberia, thousands of people were left without heat when natural gas liquefied in its pipes…” Did it really get that cold? That would be pretty impressive…
Good grief Charlie Brown, NY has had snow, storms and flooding before now.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/winter-new-york-city-gallery-1.1238424?pmSlide=0
Another content-free post. Yawn.
As you know, but pretend not to, climate scientists have been insisting for years that AGW would cause extreme weather events; the only thing you’re able to attack is the use of some words.
Of course, among your supine servile lackeys, this post is somehow a certain proof that there is no global warming.
It is the mainstream media (MSM) in general that have a warmist bias. Here in the Netherlands the NOS news, a Dutch government television news agency, has reported time after time about the wildfires in Australia and the drought in parts of Brazil. But they never mention the extreme cold in large parts of Asia, like it is not happening. Blizzards in North Dakota? Not an item in the Dutch television news. CNN is not much better. They reported about air pollution in Beijing, without even once mentioning the extreme cold temperatures in China. In some places it was minus 44 degrees Celsius, but they did not mention that. The showed a weather map of China with a large blue and purple coloured area marked: COLD. They did not give one clue about HOW cold it was. If you want honest information about all the record low temperatures that are broken time after time again, please visit http://iceagenow.info. Robert Felix gives us the honest news about the increasing cold in the world and the new record low temperatures that are established time after time. The MSN are trying to brainwash the public and they mention only the record high temperatures that occur once in a while. Many hundreds of people have died from the cold, but this fact is not mentioned in the MSM.
Rather misleading picture at the top of the article showing snow in Jerusalem. Snow in Jerusalem this time of year is rather common during winters and NOT extreme at all.
From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem):
Climate
The city is characterized by a Mediterranean climate, with hot, dry summers, and mild, wet winters. Snow flurries usually occur once or twice a winter, although the city experiences heavy snowfall every three to four years, on average, with short-lived accumulation.
‘Nough said. NO snow would be the extreme… If they even can’t get the picture right how am I to believe the rest of the story??? The temperatures described for Russia are common too. Funny, that when the Earth finally starts to cool, many are still in denial and attribute it to climate change. (Since it’s not global warming anymore, ’cause the globe ain’t warming anymore for the past 16 years). Typical human psychology: first they’re is denial… etc.
I used to live in Jerusalem in the 70’s. We used to periodically have snow in the winter and great fun was had by all. I don’t ever recall a global warming/climate extreme meme happening then. It was normal. Driving in the stuff was fun too, because the city authorities were always caught by surprise and the snow plows never made it out in time.
Sounds like our climate warming friends are getting a tad desperate.
A ‘basic’ disconnect: COOLING climate causes extreme weather. WARMING climate causes placid weather.