Al buys Al

irony-meter[1]Middle East “Big Oil” funded media outlet buys Al Gore’s CURRENT TV with plans to infiltrate offer the English Al Jazeera channel into American homes -  my Irony Meter pegged.

Will it be the “All Al” channel now?

Some details… 

From NYT’s Media decoder

9:16 p.m. | Updated Al Jazeera, the pan-Arab news giant, has long tried to convince Americans that it is a legitimate news organization, not a parrot of Middle Eastern propaganda or something more sinister.

It just bought itself 40 million more chances to make its case.

Al Jazeera on Wednesday announced a deal to take over Current TV, the low-rated cable channel that was founded by Al Gore, a former vice president, and his business partners seven years ago. Al Jazeera plans to shut Current and start an English-language channel, which will be available in more than 40 million homes, with newscasts emanating from both New York and Doha, Qatar.

For Al Jazeera, which is financed by the government of Qatar, the acquisition is a coming of age moment. A decade ago, Al Jazeera’s flagship Arabic-language channel was reviled by American politicians for showing videotapes from Al Qaeda members and sympathizers. Now the news operation is buying an American channel, having convinced Mr. Gore and the other owners of Current that it has the journalistic muscle and the money to compete head-to-head with CNN and other news channels in the United States.

Al Jazeera did not disclose the purchase price, but people with direct knowledge of the deal pegged it at around $500 million, indicating a $100 million payout for Mr. Gore, who owned 20 percent of Current.

===============================================================

Al Jazeera apparently has been looking for ways to sneak in for some time. Al Gore provided them the key.

In thinking of what I’d like to say to Mr. Gore about this, I’m reminded of House Speaker Boehner’s missive to Harry Reid making the news today.

There’s a silver lining though, next time Gore bloviates about climate skeptics “being in the pay of big oil”, we can hit him upside the head with his own pathetic hypocrisy.

As for cable TV subscribers, I’d say the best way to exercise your rights of protest is to not pay your bill, and/or disconnect. That will be my choice should it show up in my home.

UPDATES: (via Tom Graves in comments)

“Glenn Beck Tried to Buy Current TV But Was Rejected”
http://news.yahoo.com/glenn-beck-tried-buy-current-tv-rejected-032853589–finance.html

“Time Warner Cable Drops Al Gore’s Current TV Due To Purchase By Al Jazeera”
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/01/03/time-warner-cable-drops-al-gores-current-tv-due-purchase-al-jazeera#ixzz2Gvw1kZbz

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201 thoughts on “Al buys Al

  1. And here I didn’t think old Al could sink any lower. I stand corrected. And now we all know where Al stands, too–profiteer and turncoat.

  2. Canadian taxpayers funded this organ initially, in collaboration with Power Corporation of Canada, Les Desmarais du Quebec (and mothership of M. Strong). Al Gore no more founded this channel than he did the internet.

  3. Aaron Gore, paging Mr. Aaron Gore………..you have a call waiting at the Citizenship Counter…….

  4. algore betrays us with the CAGW hoax and now by selling a propaganda vehicle to our enemies. obama must be so jealous of him.

  5. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. MSM mostly feeds us biased rubbish, but if you receive a lot of different attempts at bias, you have some chance of sometimes finding the occasional grain of truth.

    I never forget a time about 25+ years ago I heard on Radio Moscow there had been an accident offloading a nuclear missile from an American warship – the crane snapped, and the missile crashed to the deck. Radio Moscow claimed this triggered a conventional explosion which killed 11 workers.

    A few days later, there was a short report on Australian news that there had been an accident while offloading of an American warship – no mention of deaths or missiles.

    I listened to Voice of America for a few days after the report on Radio Moscow – I didn’t hear any mention of the incident at all, even a denial of the Radio Moscow report.

    I still have no idea exactly what happened, but it seems likely that something happened. Its possible the Australian report was based on the Radio Moscow report, but the delay of a few days is intriguing. If I only listened to American media, I would never have heard anything about the alleged incident.

    When your own media is untrustworthy or manipulated, sometimes your only source of news is your enemies. Lets not forget the Climategate emails were originally released on Russian servers – if the files had been released on American servers, there might never have been a Climategate.

  6. Canadian taxpayers funded this organ initially, through the CBC, in collaboration with the Power Corporation of Canada, aka Les Desmarais of Quebec (mothership of M. Strong, a name well known to wuwt). Al Gore no more founded this outlet than he did the internet.

  7. Al Jazeera has proven itself as a legit news organization. When I was deployed to Qatar, I would watch and although they don’t shirk with showing violence, death or mayhem, it is much more interesting than the crap currently put out there.

  8. “Now the news operation is buying an American channel, having convinced Mr. Gore and the other owners of Current that it has the journalistic muscle and the money to compete head-to-head with CNN and other news channels in the United States.”

    I doubt that this statement is true. I doubt that Gore and the other owners of Current even care what Al Jazeera does with it. I suspect that the only thing they cared about was how soon the check would clear.

  9. That is, adding the proceeds of the sale of Current to his Apple and Google income, which was north of $100M two years ago.

  10. I think this is freedom working to its fullest. I have no problem whatsoever. It’s best if all views are out there. If it’s 100% propaganda, great! If we swallow it all, great! Then everything’s working as it should, right? If we can’t even tell the difference anymore, then we deserve whatever comes.

  11. It will be good to see some balance in the news reporting. CNN FOX SKY et al are not exactly giving Americans a true picture of what is going on in the world. US Citizens should be watching PressTV and Russia Today to get a bit of balance.

  12. I would urge you, America to be careful of how you discuss this simply to avoid looking foolish. Yes the USA prides itself on being the land of the free but for the majority of us looking in we can see the falsity of this especially with regard to your media and especially with regard to middle east reporting about Israel.

    Your media, the big newspapers especially are incredibly biased with reporting about , Israel and whilst you will hear atrocious stories of how filthy Arab terrorist murdered a poor schoolgirl you won’t read about the 100′s of Palestinian children killed in sweeping missile attacks every month.
    There has long been a will to protect Israel and the US’ interests by not allowing Americans to hear the truth of middle east matters offering a chance that their support could waver. You only need look at the way the US uses it’s veto in the UN over issues involving Israel to see the level of protection they are getting and the MSM will feed you the same old stories about ‘our allies and the filthy terrorists that want to end their lives – and we’ll be next if we let it happen” and America laps it up. The government by way of media has kept you afraid for over a century, it seems America does not function without an enemy to focus upon.

    So where was I? oh yeah, this story. First, it’s nothing to do with Gore. A company he has a stake in, a company much in trouble recently has found a buyer. No shock there that Gore makes money from his interests, that’s kind of his thing right? Al Jazeera should be a welcome source if you are able to get it. I find it invaluable in finding out news from the middle East and it’s far from the biased terrorism voice you in the US are led to believe. You can see the way it is described in this post just how the US needs to dismiss it as invalid. I watch it and to a lesser extent, Russia Today, fairly regularly. Both are far more reliable for global news than CNN, I can assure you.

    I’ve seen US media often, it still amazes me that many posters here see Fox news as a legitimate source as opposed to the far-right political activist mouthpiece it has become. I’m certainly not some raging communist as I’m sure by now many of you will be thinking. I’m a fairly well educated white, Englishman in the UK. I like to get my news from many different sources so as to get a better global view. Consider them data points and as men of science you surely understand the value of more data? The US media is very controlled as is much of what is fed to you about foreign policy. it’s so very easy to see, from the outside. Open your minds and I know you have that capability as sceptics, let me suggest that you give Al Jazeera an opportunity regardless of the way it has arrived and especially in this new year, stop seeing every Arab who’s religion you don’t share as some kind of enemy because the reality.on the ground in these places is far from what your media would have you believe.

  13. Well I get pretty much all of my propaganda; excuse me that’s NEWS, as in North, East, West, South, from the Communist Red Chinese CCTV channel, which comes for free on my indoor nocable rabbit ears antenna. Comes in loud and clear; and is much more believable than watching our stereo teleprompter reader-in-chief lie like a drunken sailor; well my apologies to drunken sailors, on that; no offense intended.

    And CCTV has this really cool Chinese (my guess) news anchor and hostess, who seems a damn side smarter, than anyone on the American alfabet soup networks. She doesn’t let anybody flim-flam her; I really need to catch her name.

    But Al Jezebel is a no go for me; even Christienne Ahmenhotep, couldn’t get me to sit for that.

    Gore will be in his element; aka carbon !

  14. I read a lot of foreign news services that have English language editions including Al Jazeera. I am sad to report that I have found that Al Jazeera tends to have a bit more journalistic integrity then the NYT, or MSNBC, but then again, even Soviet Pravda had more integrity.

  15. We have the DirecTV international package, so my wife can watch the Korean Channels. Sometimes, I watch the different international news presentations on MHZ TV, including the Al Jazeera English News service (I like listening to the “spin” different countries put on the news. I got a chuckle the time the Chinese booted out one of the Al Jazeera reporters.

  16. So far, I don’t see any comments that get it – Here’s the deal – anything they middle eastern states can do to discourage US energy independence & encourage hydrocarbon dependence is good business for them. So, here we have Al Gore, promoting alternative energies &, more importantly, railing against hydrocarbons because he says they will cause CAGW. What’s the desired result ? The sheeple say ” Oooh …. hydrocarbons bad, so we better not let those nasty “Big Oil” companies do any drilling, at least here in the USA”. Result = less domestic oil & gas. But at the same time , this does nothing to change oil & gas demand. So, demand stays the same, domestic supply shrinks , so where does the oil & gas come from? Import it from the middle east = good business for them.

    This is just the same thing that is going on with the new Matt Damon movie, “Promised Land” as has been widely reported :

    http://www.businessinsider.com/matt-damon-movie-blasts-fracking-backed-by-uae-2012-9

    http://townhall.com/columnists/tonykatz/2012/12/12/oil-exporter-abu-dhabi-funded-antifracking-film-but-matt-damon-doesnt-want-you-to-know-n1465094/page/full/

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/2044609138001/matt-damons-anti-fracking-film-gets-foreign-funding/

    Many many more links to this if you google ” promised land funding “.

    I was talking to an independent film producer from Maine over the holidays that indicated he has been approached by middle eastern media to produce “energy related” reporting for them & that they have a specific budget for things like we are seeing both with current TV & Promised Land.

    If you don’t think the fracking revolution is real & a huge benefit to the USA (and by corollary a huge threat to middle east oil & gas revenues), you are seeing the hard evidence to the contrary as they are putting their money on the line to combat it. And Al Gore (and Matt Damon) are either a pawns in their game or joining their side to help them out. Either way, it’s not a pretty picture.

  17. “Al Jazeera, which is financed by the government of Qatar”

    FYI, Qatar is the world’s largest exporter on LNG, which the US is looking to enter that market as an LNG exporter (and competitor of Qatar) with the excess gas coming from our successful fracking revolution.

    None of this is coincidence. This is going to be a propaganda effort, pure & simple.

  18. Well folks when you come right down to it I’d have a ‘bit‘ more faith in the credibility of what Al Jazeera puts out as news than I do in ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and MSNBC…

    I’ve watched a few of the documentries Al Jazeera has had on the violence of the drug cartels in Mexico (something I’m very familiar with), on slavery in the modern world, and the Koch brothers…

    Good stuff…

  19. Obviously Qatar is interested in expanding its role in fighting global warming, as evidenced from the recent conference. And if it takes $100 million for Al Gore to land on his feet – well that’s the cost of a good fight. Smart rats never jump. They quietly slip onto another ship.

  20. January 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm
    I would urge you, America to be careful of how you discuss this simply to avoid looking foolish. Yes the USA prides itself on being the land of the free but for the majority of us looking in we can see the falsity of this especially with regard to your media and especially with regard to middle east reporting about Israel.

    Your media, the big newspapers especially are incredibly biased with reporting about , Israel and whilst you will hear atrocious stories of how filthy Arab terrorist murdered a poor schoolgirl you won’t read about the 100′s of Palestinian children killed in sweeping missile attacks every month.
    ============================================================================
    They have smart bombs that only target children? The “filthy Arab terrorist” have smart rockets that avoid children?
    The UN set up modern Israel, not the US.
    Radical Jewish terrorist didn’t attack the US on 9/11. It was radical Muslim terrorist. Do you condemn what they did?
    If not, “talk to the hand”.

  21. Who bought it? Al Jazeera in Qatar or Al Jazeera English (AJE). I understand they are two different entities because of our media laws. AJE has been mainstream broadcasting in the DC area for years (for diplomats). I heard, years ago, that AJE has an Israeli investor owner, and I know it would need a US investor owner (reason why Murdoch had to become American citizen when he entered US market and didn’t want to share ownership).

    Furthermore, AJE has entirely different content than AJ Qatar. Look at the their opinion page names:

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/

    Or some of their blog names:

    http://blogs.aljazeera.com

    Al Gore couldn’t make Current TV work. You think Gore was capable of instituting Al Jazeera’s Code of Ethics? AJE is the only news org to have one of these.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/aboutus/2006/11/2008525185733692771.html

  22. I am with ZootCadillac.
    Al Jazeera has more balanced news then all US agencies put together.
    I remember how in the early 80′s on my first extended stay in the US I was branded a communist for spouting some liberal west European ideas. I was also told to keep those ideas quiet as they would land me in jail.
    Land of the free? That was an eyeopener.
    As they say in the country I am living in at the moment: Yeah right.

  23. Now we know exactly who Al Gore pals up to. No kidding. They didn’t come to Al, Al went to them to make the sale. He was in trouble and his propaganda just wasn’t selling. Needed better propaganda.

  24. ZootCadillac says:
    January 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    I agree with you completely. In 1985 before Reagan deregulated the media biz, there were a little over 50 major media owners in the country. Now there are six. Six! And all of them are entertainment companies; news is barnacle they have to include. None of our news orgs have significant foreign desks anymore. We need the additional voices that Al Jazeera provides. Their investigative reports on what is going on around the world beat American efforts hands down. They actually send reporters to foreign locations to do the reporting. It ain’t Christiane Amanpour sitting in a bar in Belgrade reporting that she’s watching the Serbs massacre people in Markdale (Bosnia). (Stephen Kinzer, NYT, Oct. 9, 1994).

  25. Given the amount of prejudice we have received from MSM, I think we’re the last people who should be defending the status quo. Al Jazeera is hardly an ally, but they represent a breath of long overdue change – even if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction.

    I agree though its hilarious to see Al Gore receiving money from big oil.

  26. I am NOT with ZootCadillac who says: Fox news as a legitimate source as opposed to the far-right political activist mouthpiece it has become. I’m certainly not some raging communist as I’m sure by now many of you will be thinking. I’m a fairly well educated white, Englishman in the UK. I like to get my news from many different sources so as to get a better global view.

    I don’t know about AJ as I never watch it. Once I found out about their “Sesame Street” that taught little kids how to hate Jews (I watched a few disgusting episodes) –I knew it was not for me.

    As far as Fox–what???? I am a fairly well educated woman in the US (who listens to the BBC and Moscow news) and I want you to know that Fox is far from the mouth piece of the far-right political scene–in fact many conservatives no longer listen to it becasue it is so middle of the road–they tell more of the truth than the other MSM, so you are more likely to hear facts from them and spin from MSM–but ‘far right?’ Sorry, you fail on that one.

    DesertYote says “even Soviet Pravda had more integrity”

    I lived in Moscow for more than a year in early 90′s. Pravada does not have any integrity–or at least then–now may be different–it was the laughing stock of teh man on the street.

  27. I believe too much information is far better than not enough. Free speech is a wonderful thing and very important to defend regardless of the content (within limits). If you do not like the content, then voice your opinion. History is full of examples of the negative outcomes from censorship. Free speech is a wonderful thing. The alternative is hideous.

  28. “”””…..nga Din says:

    January 2, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    January 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm
    I would urge you, America to be careful of how you discuss this simply to avoid looking foolish. Yes the USA prides itself on being the land of the free but for the majority of us looking in we can see the falsity of this especially with regard to your media and especially with regard to middle east reporting about Israel.

    Your media, the big newspapers especially are incredibly biased with reporting about , Israel and whilst you will hear atrocious stories of how filthy Arab terrorist murdered a poor schoolgirl you won’t read about the 100′s of Palestinian children killed in sweeping missile attacks every month.
    ============================================================================
    They have smart bombs that only target children? The “filthy Arab terrorist” have smart rockets that avoid children?……”””””

    Well I don’t know who said what here Gunga, but, if it was you, then you are being deceived.
    Our President; who also leads our troops as CIC openly bows to prominent Arab leaders, and has them as dinner guests at the White House; that’s not US media bias; you can fact check it yourself.

    But the Israeli Prime Minister, can only enter our White House through the servant’s entrance around the side, so nobody sees him enter to be lectured by our anointed World leader.

    And we can listen live to the speeches at the United Nations to hear for ouselves the utterances of Arab leaders, and also other Islamic democracies as well; scuse me, I guess there aren’t any islamic democracies, are there ?

    We are not as stupid, as US media portrays us, so we can see what goes on in those areas surrounding Israel for ourselves.

    I believe the Geneva Conventions classify it as a war crime to put military accoutrements that are legitimate targets of war, into civilian occupied locations, such as hospitals and schools. But perhaps you didn’t know that.

    Actually, modern Israel, was set up by mostly Jewish people as well as their Arab cousins, who were largely refugees of a war against their very existence; the land in the region was theirs thousands of years before any UN existed.

  29. Ok, I’ll bite/
    @Gunga Din

    They have smart bombs that only target children? The “filthy Arab terrorist” have smart rockets that avoid children?

    The Israelis do indeed have smart bombs that can find designated targets very easily and very precisely. They are American armaments supplied by the US and paid for by US military aid of $24Bn from 2000-2009 and projected to be $30bn from 2009-2018. these very precise weapons killed 2969 Palestinians in the period of 2000-2009 of which 1128 were children. By contrast the Palestinians are using home made rockets with no targeting electronics. they calculate the fuel needed to reach a certain area and point and hope. The Israelis choose their targets with American weapons, the Palestinians just fire their darts in angry retribution at an occupying nation.
    Collateral damage should be expected to be higher on the Israeli side. it is far from it. This is not a war the US are supposed to be involved in yet they actively fund it.
    However i think you have wilfully ignored my point. I’ve not discussed any blame or personal position about the war, i have merely pointed out the biased way in which it is reported to Americans within the US media. You may ignore this but if your information is only taken from the one area which i suggest has bias and censorship then perhaps it bears more investigation?

    The UN set up modern Israel, not the US.

    That’s technically correct although it was very much a British and US collaboration. Britain being very much subject to the whims of the US after WWII owing to the massive debts they were in. however it’s not a claim I made or implied and I fail to see what this has to do with my point that US media is biased and controlled and that it’s citizens should welcome outside media, or at least take the opportunity to find out for themselves if what they have been told is factually correct.

    Radical Jewish terrorist didn’t attack the US on 9/11. It was radical Muslim terrorist.

    I fail to see what that has to do with my post above. I’ve not made any accusations about any group other than the US mainstream media. I could counter by saying that much of US mainland terrorism has historically been committed by radical, right-wing fundamentalist Christian groups or individuals. If a criminal’s religion is pertinent to his crime then why have the US not declared war on these groups? it’s a nonsense point and not one i brought up.

    Do you condemn what they did

    Absolutely. What right minded individual would not? I condemn all acts of barbarism against the innocent.
    I’m a Rtd. UK Army Staff Sgt. RA. I fought alongside US troops to liberate Kuwait. I’ve been deployed to that area many times. I’ve killed these people, in great numbers, for you and your like, so I’m told, to enjoy the freedoms you feel you are entitled to but the way many people talk about Muslims today without understanding the slightest about the actual person makes me wish i hadn’t bothered. And that’s coming from an atheist who thinks all organised religion is a bane to humanity.

    If not, “talk to the hand”.

    Yeah, i guess.

  30. ianrs says:
    January 2, 2013 at 9:18 pm
    I’d believe AlJ before tbe BBC or CNN everyday. Despite their greeny perpesctive on everything.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    There, right there in that comment, is the problem.

    When our knowledge of a given issue is high, we almost always see the reporting as incompetent, superficial, and inaccurate. What better example can we have of this than MSM reporting of climate science?

    So, will Al Jazeera be biased? You betcha. Is that a problem? Sure.

    But the bigger problem is that their reporting of middle east affairs will be just as incompetent, superficial, and inaccurate as is their reporting of climate science. Just because they do more of it doesn’t mean they are any better at it. Exact same goes for CNN, Fox, BBC, WSJ…. pick a topic that you have in depth knowledge of and check to see how it is reported. All we’re getting from the MSM these days is current events. Bias is mostly about which current events are reported and which not. The bigger problem is that high integrity journalistic investigation that puts the current events into proper perspective is lacking entirely.

    A pox on all their houses.

  31. ZootCadillac says:

    “I’ve seen US media often, it still amazes me that many posters here see Fox news as a legitimate source as opposed to the far-right political activist mouthpiece it has become.”

    Far-right political activist mouthpiece…?
    Hardly.

    OPEC countries and especially Arab countries use 100’s of millions of dollars to assure media influence amongst other things.
    Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal owns a 7 percent stake in News Corp — the parent company of Fox News — making him the largest shareholder outside the family of News Corp CEO Rupert Murdoch.

    But he exerts no pressure and has no influence on the direction and content…….
    Rrrrright.

  32. Isn’t it fitting that Al Gore will receive his $100 Million in 2013 under the new and improved Obama tax rates? Think of all the “good” he could have done with the millions he would have saved under the old Bush tax rates. That’s too bad for him, unless he plans to use a foreign tax shelter. It would be interesting to find out how much he actually ends up paying for his 2013 taxes. Obama will need a few extra million to help pay for his next Hawaiian vacation.

  33. This is a flyby comment as I am having a rough week.

    I would not totally discount Al Jazeera as a news organization. (I no longer know how to categorize “legitimate” news organizations). I do not watch Al Jazeera (or any other news) but much of what I have read passes the laugh test.

    Look at how they cover women’s issues as treatment of women is a major failing of Islamic culture as currently practiced.

    Full disclosure, I have not dropped in on Al Jazeera written media for several months.

  34. Zoot, perhaps it’s news to you that terrorists hide among women and children for a reason. Same reason they fake atrocities for video propaganda on outlets like AJ. And many Brits and Russians and sophisticates all over the world are anti-semites. Doesn’t make em right.

  35. In the slippery, vested interest world of MSM it is necessary to ‘triangulate’ at every opportunity.
    Having Al Jazeera widely available in the US will give open minded people another ‘perspective’ on major issues. This can only be a good thing.
    As for Al Gore being a fat hypocrite…well that seems true, regardless of which angle you look at it from.

  36. Louis says:

    “Isn’t it fitting that Al Gore will receive his $100 Million in 2013 under the new and improved Obama tax rates?”

    A hypocrite like Al?
    Do as I say, not as I do…….
    Taxes are for the plebs.

    “Mr. Gore and his partners were eager to complete the deal by Dec. 31, lest it be subject to higher tax rates that took effect on Jan. 1, according to several people who insisted on anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly. But the deal was not signed until Wednesday.”

    http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/al-jazeera-said-to-be-acquiring-current-tv/?smid=tw-share

  37. We live in interesting times, given the vacuum our media has become, Pravda 2009 covered climate gate more accurately and honestly than CBC and most of the rest of North American Media, I would not be surprised to see Al Jazeera exceed my expectations.
    Al Gore getting bailed out, thats good too, he will have some money for the lawsuit settlements.
    The entertainment Media,for it’s not news or reporting as we knew it, is fading away.
    Too few of their viewers trust them anymore, sure they would like to, hence the success of Fox, but its going down,being replaced by trusted blogs.
    The media sold the public out, they know it, we know it and the advertisers know it.
    Follow the advertisers they know the media is not reaching the public anymore.
    We see the media attempting placement advertising, hoping to save their asses, but the shows are feeble and viewers fickle.
    The effort to control the internet, is clear notice that they recognize their fading influence and the blatant love affair with Obama, their prince and saviour .
    Would intelligent people be that brazen, if they had anything left to lose?

  38. ZootCadillac says: By contrast the Palestinians are using home made rockets with no targeting electronics. they calculate the fuel needed to reach a certain area and point and hope. The Israelis choose their targets with American weapons, the Palestinians just fire their darts in angry retribution at an occupying nation.

    For heaven’s sake Zoot–the Israelis are defending themselves againt a vicious gang of terroists that hide behind their children, knowing full well that people like you will blame the Israelis. They are cowards. Teh Jewish people are remarkably restrained considering the terrorists never let up. Many people wonder why they hold back–when the terroists won’t stop bombing, homicide bombing–attacking the Jewish people in their own land. Remember–in Israel women can drive, work, walk in public without a man and not be raped, and it doesn’t take 4 witnesses to claim rape. Women are not stoned for being raped either–It’s a no brainer which side I would be on even it if it were not historically the land of the semites.

    GO THERE and see for yourself. stop listening to Al Jezeera. You are not getting the correct story.

  39. The base problem is the idea of not being biased. All outlets report from what they think is the acceptable range of views. So there key questions, are, do they fake the reported facts? Do they suppress relievent views?
    What is your objection to hearing people outside your confort zone? Where people have negative views of you is it not better to understand what they think, even if they are wrong?
    If your objection is that they are terrorists, Remember the voice of the current deputy prime minister of North Ireland was banned on UK TV for many years and now he is in the government.

    Just because they say it on TV, does not mean you have to accept it. In general it is better to know what it is that you do not accept.

  40. I watch TV sometimes when I travel (never at home, I care about my mental health). In Europe, they’ve had English-language version of Al-Jazeera included in the standard set of TV channels since long ago. I cannot say that I like it but it is definitely not as left-oriented or Israel-hating as BBC.

    Western news organizations have become so lazy, biased, and unprofessional that I go to Russian web sites to check if anything of interest is happening in the world. There is no hope to find that out on Yahoo or other American “news” sites (including Fox, unfortunately).

  41. @Other_Andy.

    i read your comment with interest. i did consider a reply to each point and did a little research but my PC recently blew up and i’ve been commenting on WUWT from my bed ( it’s 7:30am here) on a small netbook in the dark. It’s difficult, the keyboard is cramped. I make many mistakes.
    Also i realised that there was no point. it’s just opinion. That you don’t see things the way i do is no doubt down to your own political beliefs. i personally have no stake on US politics and I’d be pretty much ashamed to associate myself with either party right now but for differing reasons. i see Fox news as I see it. I don’t see how shareholders are altering the style and manner of reporting. i do know the murdoch family and their practices very well due to their exposure in the UK and the subsequent arrest of many of their media bigwigs. It’s my opinion, I’ll let yours be.

    @Neill

    Having fought your ‘terrorists’ (many of whom are people who have been made enemies from the actions of the west as opposed to being a terrorist threat in the past ) i like to think I have a clue what’s going on in the region. I’m not sure what the rest of the post had to do with me and my point about US media except that I inferred a reference that you might consider me anti-semitic. i apologise in advance if that’s not the case but if it was so then i refute that in entirety. I may not agree with organised religion but that;s the same for one as any other.
    I would however defend the right of any individual to practice his faith without interference or persecution. If you were implying that I have something against Jews ( the people who identify as such rather than the people who practice Judaism ) then I’d invite you to come look me in the eye and repeat your claim. I would not allow it to stand. Any accusation of discriminatory practice levelled at me is treated the same. As someone who has fathered mixed-race children i think you can see where that stems from. I find discrimination by race, gender or religion to be abhorrent.

    @DaybyDay

    I have been there, which is why i find much of your comment anecdotal rhetoric. You would not make such claims if you knew the people. The ‘Arab’ is not the same over the region and nor is ‘the Muslim’ and you media fed understanding of the region, based on your comments simply reinforces my views of biased media.

  42. “I’ve seen US media often, it still amazes me that many posters here see Fox news as a legitimate source as opposed to the far-right political activist mouthpiece it has become.”

    I agree and I am still surprised how many (conservative/right wing?) AGW skeptics forget about their skepticism when it comes to other ‘scams’, like politics, patriotism, wars…

  43. @ZootCadillac on January 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    There were more than just a few “fairly well educated white Englishmen” in the late 18th century that had some difficulty with various American media – including Benjamin Franklin. In 1776, it was made clear what Americans thought of their opinions.

    Take your criticism, prejudice, and British colonial attitude elsewhere sir. It’s 2013.

  44. “having convinced Mr. Gore and the other owners of Current that it has the journalistic muscle and the money to compete head-to-head with CNN and other news channels in the United States.”

    that it has money was al that mattered for Al.

    As for Al Jazeera. I know it has a negative image in the US. But it has good coverage of things happening in the Middle East. I follow their live-blog on Syria, for example. And as an earlier commenter said: you want as much info you can get and make up your own mind about events.

    Too bad Al Jazeera is all in for the AGW myth. Now that I learned that Qatar is the main financer plus the fact that Qatar was hosting the last climate conference at Doha, I don’t think that Al Jazeera will provide a different view on that issue any time soon.

  45. ZootCadillac touts being an atheist who thinks all organized religion is the “bane to humanity,” because they are all ethically equal – in accord with the ignorance of most secular atheists. Well, I’m a lifelong atheist, and a one-time student of the late “great atheist” Antony Flew (a UK philosopher most associated with the University of Reading), and that notion is flat out wrong.

    Most Muslims ARE (in that much abused term) “fundamentalist.” For instance, not much less than nearly all Muslims believe that the religious crime of apostasy – ie, changing one’s mind about Islam and dissenting from it – requires their death.

    No free and open society can function this way, persecuting apostasy, and thus Jews are now almost extinct from their Arabic and other Muslim homelands, and a Christian diaspora leading their is gathering steam.

    So the claim of equal worth or abhorrence of religion is ridiculously wrong. ZootCadillac then goes out on a limb and saws himself off, thusly: “I could counter by saying that much of US mainland terrorism has historically been committed by radical, right-wing fundamentalist Christian groups or individuals. If a criminal’s religion is pertinent to his crime then why have the US not declared war on these groups?” As an American historian, let me say that this smear has no basis in fact or reality about the US.

    To the contrary – as Harvard cognitive psychologist Steven Pinker makes clear in his latest tome ,”Angles of Our Better Nature” (supported with 70 pages of footnotes) – western religions, but especially Christianity, have diminished human violence by advancing the humanitarian ethic of forgiveness. Through forgiveness, an enemy becomes a useful trading partner, for example, and eventually a friend, despite other deep differences – something Arabs and Muslims have yet to learn from Jews and Christians despite having a millennium of time, as well as sterling examples, like Israel, in their midst to emulate.

    ZootCadillac also let’s us in on his real biases: “I watch [Al Jazeera] and to a lesser extent, Russia Today, fairly regularly. Both are far more reliable for global news than CNN, I can assure you.”

    I too have watched “RT” and Al Jazeera for years (via local US broadcast public television), and RT is much like MSNBC (the very least watched news source in the US), but with a more conspiratorial twist on Chomskyite nonsense, ie, let’s have our controversial conclusion ornamented by “facts” chosen to serve our “Leftist” ideology, with contrary facts and falsifications completely ignored or derided as strawmen.

    As to Al Jarzeera, which I have much more respect for, consider how they reported on the COP18 climate conference in Doha, and the World Bank’s alarmist AGW-propaganda reports about a month ago: I watched a half hour interview program with three “journalists” – it was a chorus of “consensus” – of course all scientists agree….AGW is even worse than we knew…no one disagrees…. BLAH BLAH BLAH indoctrination, not facts nor thinking things through at all.

    In short, no criticism, dissent, or skepticism even applied to the “climate crisis.” I was appalled.
    If this is representative of how Al Jazeera America will cover climate change, their success will do much more to advance Al Gore’s risible climate propaganda than Current TV ever hoped to do.

  46. I’d like to add to these comments that i do hope I have not upset too many people by my comments. I am aware of how sensitive an issue comments about terrorism still are. it was never my intention to direct the conversation that way, i just found myself responding to responses to me as honestly as i could. I’m a great believer in tolerance and I hope you can tolerate my comments in the same way i do the many others here that i don’t agree with when the discussion goes off topic.

    I can get a little heated at times, mostly if called a liar or accused of some form of prejudice. I like to think I’ve met and known enough of the world’s people to know we are pretty much all the same, we were just indoctrinated into different views. many of which we could simply do without.

    I will concede that i am not entirely without prejudice or bigotry as i am incredibly intolerant of idiots, whatever your creed or colour.

    I enjoy WUWT very much and would prefer to make friends discussing the things we have in common than make enemies over the things we don’t share the same views of. I reserve the right to remain a cantankerous old bastard though :) Happy new year all.

  47. Is Al Jazeera reporting the news that hundreds of people are dying of COLD in Uttar Pradesh in India. Mostly street people they are unable to endure the lowest recorded temperatures in that region since 1969.

  48. A co-worker versed in Middle Eastern affairs told me that the Katushka rocket is quite harmless. A small child can intercept and drive it back with his fist.
    Muslim men definitely fall short in their treatment of women. Patriarchy theory tells us that all white males are rapists, beaters, murderers and enslavers of women and have been for millenia. Muslim men simply lack the mobility to rape the huge numbers that a white man rapes.
    /sarc off

  49. ZootCadillac says:
    January 2, 2013 at 11:49 pm
    ” I’m not sure what the rest of the post had to do with me and my point about US media except that I inferred a reference that you might consider me anti-semitic. i apologise in advance if that’s not the case but if it was so then i refute that in entirety.”

    You called the indiscrimate, untargeted firing of rockets at Israeli villages and cities morally superior to targetting enemy launch sites. You called those rockets darts.

    I think you are very anti-semitic. I don’t know you, but you sound like a muslim apologist for Hamas.

  50. Quote: “Now the news operation is buying an American channel, having convinced Mr. Gore and the other owners of Current that it has the journalistic muscle and the money to compete head-to-head with CNN and other news channels in the United States.”

    Umm, no. This rather looks like a fire sale by the Current TV-stakeholders to me: The trade of CO2-permits is dead, so Al has no further use for a propaganda-outlet pushing it.

    Al is selling a bad-performing asset, because he knows Current TV has exceeded it’s shelf-life.

    Mark my words: Some day, in retrospect, the day of selling Current TV to Al Jazeera will be called the official terminal date of AGW.

  51. It seems like Israel can’t do right. They are patient for months as Palestinians or Hezbollah are firing rockets into their country and then they finally respond with superior weapons and they get called “mean” and “nasty.”

  52. We have their news channel in the UK – and it beats the ultra-lefty-biassed-BBC-propaganda-shows by miles. Yes, there is some bias on Middle East issues, but it is easily allowed for and is a healthy (IMO) counter-balance to most of the media over here!

  53. Living in Europe and trying to find a little truth in “”NEWS”” channels I would rate for accuracy and presentation Al Jazeera one million ( 1,000,000,) times better than the BBC, if you want to rant try watching these 2 channels at news hour then compare !

  54. Hi ZootCadillac

    Thanks for your reply.
    This is not a political blog so I keep it short.
    The term ‘far-right’ is overused and a discussion stopper. The whole political spectrum has moved so far to the left, it seems that everybody on the right of Stalin is called far-right and an extremist these days.
    As for Fox, I can’t remember the last time I watched them. For the news I watch the MSM but make sure I check the ‘facts’ and read online newspapers and blogs for various points of view.
    As for Alwaleed bin Talal spending millions ONLY as an investment and NOT having some influence on the direction of the media, I agree that’s just a guess.
    I have read that some commentators, on left leaning blogs, see the ‘anti-AGW’ stance of Fox as proof of Alwaleed bin Talal’s influence. I am not sure that makes sense.

  55. Very lucky to get Al Jazeera…. I travel constantly in SE Asia, and I am alway VERY happy to land a hotel that has Al Jazeera. A very different approach to the usual ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX etc, and even way ahead of the BBC………

    I always see very interesting stories about places and issues that never pop up on the western MSM, and the quality of the reporting and detail is impressive. Far better than the US/Aus/Brit style of a studio full of talking heads on a 24 hour news cycle proving that the stock market and politics are just a game to be constantly chewed over…

    Of course, they undoubtedly have their own viewpoints and own bias (though not at all obvious to me) but then again, we should all watch and digest ANY MSM knowing that somewhere behind it there is someone with his own particular viewpoint calling the shots.

    As an interesting News broadcaster I cannot praise them highly enough. (Disclosure … I’m an Aussie, from a family of many generations of Aussies).

  56. I read AlJazeera most days as it often has a different perspective on things. It usually is accurate, as long as you skip over two subjects:

    1. Palestine, for obvious reasons, and

    2. ‘Climate change’, where they are even more alarmist and irrational than the BBC.

  57. AGW skeptics forget about their skepticism when it comes to other ‘scams’, like politics, patriotism, wars…??
    Oh yes all that politics, patriotism and wars so how long have you had a reforming left =wing president ? how are the politics, patriotism and wars going for you ? we had a left wing govermnet for 13 yrs and they left us broke with their version of politics left us swamped with their version patriotism and burying our sons with their version of war !

  58. australian cable tv – all now owned by murdoch – includes aljazeera english, plus aljazeera programs are occasionally shown on partly-govt-funded SBS TV. it is no better or worse at propaganda than the rest of the MSM, which isn’t a compliment.

    aljazeera advocates CAGW, as does the rest of the MSM so, on that score, it matters little.

  59. The Al Jazeera channel is available in Britain on Sky TV. Why on earth shouldn’t it be available in American homes? The attitude of some American right-wingers to freedom of speech is rather like the view of consumer choice that Henry Ford expressed when he wrote “any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black.”

  60. “There’s a silver lining though, next time Gore bloviates about climate skeptics “being in the pay of big oil”, we can hit him upside the head with his own pathetic hypocrisy.

    As for cable TV subscribers, I’d say the best way to exercise your rights of protest is to not pay your bill, and/or disconnect. That will be my choice should it show up in my home.”

    Oh come on, are you really suggesting “big oil” is sponzoring Al Gore by buying a TV channel where he isn’t even majority owner?

    And regarding the second sentence, do you often unsubscribe from TV channels because somebody told you to do so? What happened to having open mind?

    Should I still consider this a skeptic and scientific site or has it already turned to pure political propaganda?

  61. Zoot, I genuinely appreciate reading your perspective here. I don’t watch any TV news so I don’t know or care how biased there are. But when you say “of which 1128 were children” it reminds of the statistix that the gun control advocates like to use here. There are some innocent children killed by guns and those are tragic and often easily preventable. But many of the “children” used in the statistix are gang members from 18-20. Sometimes the gun control advocates will even admit it like Father Pfleger in Chicago recently complaining to President Obama about the “300 children” killed in the school year in Chicago (leaving out the breakdown of gang members, stabbings and beatings) while Obama paid lots of attention to some young and innocent white children who were shot.

  62. There are places to see the information on political donations by employees of corporations such as TV networks. In the United States, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC employees overwhelmingly donate to the Democratic Party. In some years there have been ZERO donations from employees of some (usually NBC) of those networks to the Republican Party. One year there were a whole TWO donations to GOP candidates from CBS employees.

    FOX employees donate less overall to politicians than any of the others, but still a large majority of FOX employee political donations go to Democrats.

    American TV news and other media is dominated by Democrats. It matters not who the guy at the top of a media conglomerate supports, the people further down the pyramid are mostly Democrats.

    FOX News Channel a “tool of the Republicans”? Ha! At best they just don’t lean quite as far left as all the rest. Remember when Iraq tried to hit the American base in the middle of Kuwait City harbor with a Chinese cruise missile but overshot and blew up a pier and the front of a movie theater? There was *one* live report where their man on the scene showed pieces of the missile with Chinese characters. That segment was never seen again. If FOX was the “right wing propaganda mill” the lefties claim it is, they would have run that over and over and over again, but instead buried it like they did several other things that would’ve reflected really badly on Saddam and his violations of the post 1991 sanctions. You had to see it live or you’d never see it again.

    Even FOX’s most right leaning people like Sean Hannity hold back from asking what I call “meat cleaver” questions, the ones that would be so devastating to their guest’s stupid positions that it would (should) put them off the air and out of the papers for good.

    FOX doesn’t want that! If they don’t soft-pedal things there wouldn’t be any left wing numbskulls to have on Hannity, Huckabee and the other shows.

    What we get from FOX is *some* harder questioning of the lefties, but not enough to suit me. Since it’s not the sycophantic pandering to the left *all other TV news* in the USA does, the left screams and hollers and throws a conniption fit about it being ultra far far right.

  63. OK. I’m done/ It was too much. With my sincere apologies to Anthony.

    To those who don’t know me from your biblical Adam yet choose to make all manner of insulting and egregious inferences about my character and beliefs based upon a few comments then shame on you. You could have asked and i would have explained.

    And for the one which i expect will have me excluded from further conversation. @DirkH

    [snip . . site rules . . mod] you sir. I can be found under this nickname elsewhere including twitter. i will invite you to find me there. I’ll invite you to my door, paid for, to repeat your accusations.

    Apologies again to Anthony and the mods but the accusations levelled at me are not to be tolerated.

  64. @eric1skeptic thank you for your comment. I quoted officially released figures from Israeli human rights organisation B’Tselem for under 18 year old unarmed non-combatants. Of the adult numbers 446 were unarmed and killed by missiles from US supplied helicopters.

    None of which really matters. i only broached the subject to illustrate how shielded the US is from such facts in their mainstream media in the hope that they might consider other avenues of news as well.

  65. What some people don’t realise is that before he became vice-president Al Gore and his family became rich on big oil. Remember, they have no problem taking money from big oil, big gas or big wind but nothing for the sceptics.

    “Gore’s Big Oil Connection: An ‘Occident’ of Birth?”

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,55826,00.html

    “Big Oil Money for Me, But Not for Thee”

    http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2012/02/17/big-oil-money-for-me-but-not-for-thee/

    “Exxon-Led Group Is Giving A Climate Grant to Stanford”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/21/us/exxon-led-group-is-giving-a-climate-grant-to-stanford.html

    CRU – BP, Shell and nuclear power funding

    http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/about/history/

    “How the Sierra Club Took Millions From the Natural Gas Industry”

    http://science.time.com/2012/02/02/exclusive-how-the-sierra-club-took-millions-from-the-natural-gas-industry-and-why-they-stopped/

  66. I have watched Al Jazeera and they are waaaaay better than the BBC. And they don’t protect sexual predators. ;-)

  67. Don’t worry, Al’s legion of sheeple will still support him.

    It’s funny how all these guys are quick to accuse everyone else of being funded by “big oil” yet every time you turn around THEY are getting a fat paycheck from “Big Oil”

  68. I must say I’m disappointed how ugly some of this discussion seemed to get. Bottom line – if you don’t like what they broadcast, change channel. That’s the essence of freedom, guys, and one of the inherent dangers of freedom is that some people my have (and express) views you don’t like or agree with.

    As for some of the “Muslims = terrorists” innuendo, as someone who is also from the UK and also ex Army, we had decades of terrorism out of Ireland. By the “Muslim terrorist” theory, that would make every Irishman, and their supporters, terrorists. Which would include many of those very fine NY Firemen and Policemen who were first on the ground on 9/11*. In fact, we should probably include all Catholics in that sweeping generalisation as well!

    That’s patently not the case but it would be wise to bear in mind that, as a percentage of the world’s (fairly small) Irish population, the numbers who actively supported the Cause are considerably higher than the percentage of the apparently 2 billion Muslims who would even countenance, let alone actively support, “Muslim terror”..

    All races, all cultures and all creeds breed Bad Men. If you aspire to support freedom you’ll never succeed as long as you allow yourself to hold such absurd generalisations!

    *Please note that, in the interest of international harmony I even typed that date the wrong way round for you guys ;)

  69. I ocasionally read AJ on the web. Nothing too special there, slightly boring. Obviously warmist. Now if I could get my hand at a decent Russian news site…

  70. Billy says: January 3, 2013 at 1:11 am
    DirkH says: January 3, 2013 at 1:16 am

    Re Palestine: I think it is essential in life to try to look at conflicts from the viewpoint of the “other” sides. A little broader news reporting and some view of the humans on the other side cannot hurt, then all can make up their own minds who is right or wrong and why the fighting goes on and on.
    And labelling people does not make them wrong – A couple of important comments from a couple of guys not known for their anti- semetism:

    “Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French…What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct…If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb … (he decries violence but goes on to say) …. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.”

    Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in “A Land of Two Peoples” ed. Mendes-Flohr. :
    from The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict. Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html (purportedly a Jewish site)

    “…….seems to have a feel for what motivates his enemies and was widely quoted as saying: “If I were a Palestinian I would have joined a terrorist organisation.”

    [and an interesting aside] Barak also said during a US television interview last year that he would probably strive for nuclear weapons if he were in Iran’s position….”

    Ehud Barak former Israeli prime minister Military Officer, Defence Minister, a member of the Israeli Defence Forces for 36 years who retired from the military as chief of staff and its most decorated soldier.

    http://www.theage.com.au/world/singleminded-in-military-and-politics-alike-20121127-2a457.html#ixzz2DNbuDPIA

  71. Our host wrote, “As for cable TV subscribers, I’d say the best way to exercise your rights of protest is to not pay your bill, and/or disconnect. That will be my choice should it show up in my home.”

    We are ten years free of broadcast/mass media television. We have just changed our DVD movie rental subscription service to streaming video. I am learning to stream from my computer to the streaming appliance, to show media not approved by the appliance controllers – in my computer I can reformat and strip Digital Restrictions Management code.

    Television is the little death of intelligence, the mind sucker.

    Read Electronic Frontiers Foundation EFF.org and don’t believe the party line on DRM as copyright.

  72. http://news.yahoo.com/glenn-beck-tried-buy-current-tv-rejected-032853589–finance.html

    “Glenn Beck’s The Blaze approached Current about buying the channel last year, but was told that ‘the legacy of who the network goes to is important to us and we are sensitive to networks not aligned with our point of view,’ according to a person familiar with the negotiations.”

    Glenn Beck (who I think is crazy) wasn’t allowed to buy Current TV because they wanted to sell to someone who held their viewpoint. Isn’t Al Jazerra owned by Qatar and the royal family? And how did they make their money? Being a part of Big Oil. Al Gore is making $100 million of Big Oil money, and then he and his cronies will turn around and decry about Big Oil money fighting against CAGW. Who really gets oil money? Not CAGW skeptics, but CAGW believers.

    And once again, I will begin to believe you, Al Gore, about CAGW when you live the way you tell me to live. Walk the walk and lead by example. Until you live poor and “sustainable” like you want me to, I won’t believe a word you say. Give your $100 million to the poor countries. The same goes for you Michael Mann, Phil Jones, and so on. When you start to live sustainable, then I will too. But I already know you are unwilling to live poor.

  73. For news channels I have Al jazeera on cable and Russia Today on Freeview in the UK along with CNN, BBC, SKY, Bloomberg, Euronews, NDTV, CNBC on cable. The more angles available, the more I feel able to judge what is credible, what is propaganda and what questions to ask, as all MSM are to a lesser or greater extent prejudiced. I look forward to a Chinese news channel one day.

    On the BBC today it has been quite interesting hearing them trying to twist the recent UK rainfall statistics into a “be afraid” story and failing miserable.

  74. Charles Gerard Nelson says:
    January 3, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Is Al Jazeera reporting the news that hundreds of people are dying of COLD in Uttar Pradesh in India. Mostly street people they are unable to endure the lowest recorded temperatures in that region since 1969.

    I don’t know, but I was surprised to see it on the headline scroll at the bottom of a local TV newscast here in New Hampshire.

    I guess this thread is mature enough for a little redirection. There are a lot of reference on Google News, including http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323374504578218852276678968.html?mod=googlenews_wsj which says in part:

    Cold Kills at Least 114 People in North India

    Associated Press

    LUCKNOW, India—Police say more than 100 people have died of exposure as northern India deals with historically cold temperatures.

    Police spokesman Surendra Srivastava said Thursday that at least 114 people have died from the cold in the state of Uttar Pradesh. At least 23 of those died in the past 24 hours.

    Temperatures in New Delhi, which borders Uttar Pradesh, hit a high Wednesday of 9.8 degrees (49.6 Fahrenheit), the lowest maximum temperature in the capital since 1969.

    It also had this completely bogus line. Apparently the WSJ can’t handle a temperature conversion that is just like a currency conversion:

    The weather department said temperatures in the state were 4 to 10 degrees Celsius (39 to 50 degrees Fahrenheit) below normal.

    Auggh!

  75. Mark and two Cats says:
    January 2, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    algore betrays us with the CAGW hoax and now by selling a propaganda vehicle to our enemies….
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Al started before that.

    This comes from the Ag Journal, Billings, Montana: “At a recent ceremony at the White House, Vice President and presidential candidate Al Gore let slip what many have long believed was his real intention as regards to U.S. agriculture.

    “While presenting a national award to a Colorado FFA member, Gore asked the student what his/her life plans were. Upon hearing that the FFA member wanted to continue on in production agriculture, Gore reportedly replied that the young person should develop other plans because our production agriculture is being shifted out of the U.S. to the Third World.”

    http://mi-cherries.com/did2.htm

    And now the other shoe has dropped. Al baby did not tell us WHO would own those Third World farms…

    Farmers demand the World Bank and Wall Street stop grabbing their lands at opening of the Bank’s annual conference in Washington, DC.

    …The World Bank will be meeting with government officials and private sector investors during its annual conference, where they will discuss large-scale farmland acquisitions by foreign corporations in developing countries. The World Bank will be promoting its controversial Principles for Responsible Agricultural Investment (RAI)…

    The World Bank’s policies for land privatisation and concentration, have paved the way for corporations from Wall Street to Singapore to take upwards of 80 million hectares of land from rural communities across the world in the past few years….

  76. eworrall1 says:
    January 2, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. MSM mostly feeds us biased rubbish, but if you receive a lot of different attempts at bias, you have some chance of sometimes finding the occasional grain of truth….
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Agreed. It will be a challenge to the MSM’s wall of silence….maybe. As I have shown many times here the bankers own/control the media. link

  77. DesertYote says:
    January 2, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    I read a lot of foreign news services that have English language editions including Al Jazeera. I am sad to report that I have found that Al Jazeera tends to have a bit more journalistic integrity then the NYT, or MSNBC, but then again, even Soviet Pravda had more integrity.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is not saying much since NYT, MSNBC or the rest have NO journalistic integrity.

    When they showed film footage of my big ten university campus engulfed in riots just after the Kent State riot, I knew they were liars and quit watching TV. There was no riot, not even one unruly student. The real big clue to this being intentional propaganda was my parents saw the film in New York but none of my instate dorm mates parents saw it yet it should have been a big instate story.

  78. Al-Jazeera may have an Arabic name, a headquarters in Qatar, and at least nominal Arabic ownership, but to say that it represents Arabs or Muslims would be about as silly as saying that ABC News or CNN represents the U.S.A. — or that Qatar represents Arabs or Muslims. More useful are the news networks that defend the governments of countries that the Anglo-American Establishment is stridently demanding that the West overthrow, such as the government of Russia, Syria, Iran, Sudan or China, and in general, news networks that defend the principle of national sovereignty against “Anglo-American” (but really un-American, and against the interest of most Anglos) schemes for world government!

    If you really want to know what’s going on in the Middle East, visit the website of a news network that is most despised by the forces that overthrew the government of Libya, chopped-up Qaddafi, and replaced his regime with Al-Qaeda’s affiliates, which celebrated the 11th anniversary of September 11, 2001 by shelling the U.S. Embassy in Benghazi and killing the patriotic Americans inside: larouchepub.com (Executive Intelligence Review).

  79. john robertson says:
    January 2, 2013 at 10:57 pm
    …. The entertainment Media,for it’s not news or reporting as we knew it, is fading away.
    Too few of their viewers trust them anymore, sure they would like to, hence the success of Fox, but its going down,being replaced by trusted blogs…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Yes viewers no longer trust the MSM:

    Public trust in Australian media among worst in the world
    The Australian public’s trust in the media is lower than in virtually any other country, However, the situation is a slight improvement on last year’s figure, which was 30%.

    The only major countries in the survey – which involved 5000 interviews across 23 countries – where distrust in the media was worse were the US and UK….

    Media was even less trusted then banks, occupying the bottom of the heap.
    The graph shows the US trust in the media dropped 11 points from 38% to 27% between 2010 and 2011. The UK dropped from 27% to 22%.

    Not exactly what I would call a vote of confidence in the fourth estate.

  80. Not one of WUWT’s best articles.

    I won’t, and do not need to, drag middle-east politics into global-warming arguments.

  81. There is nothing wrong with making money.
    There is nothing bad about Al Gore getting out of the television business.
    There is nothing wrong with oil.
    and I won’t be watching Al Jazeera …ever. So what?

    The only unpleasant part of this is that the ultimate creep and sex massage internet liar, Al Gore, just got more money, from the ultimate oil producers.

    Al Gore is all about scamming for cash and feeding his ego. When you figure this out then all of Gore’s behavior makes sense. In fact, I hazard a few predictions about what he does next.

    He has to feed his ego, troll for money and be creepy all at the same time…

    He is going to start a giant ocean fish farm that sequesters CO2 and also functions as a cruise line destination outside US jurisdiction to shelter from tax. All of his crew will be 14 year old girl masseuses. It will be funded by an offshoot of the UN.

  82. Louis:
    My understanding is they signed the deal in 2012 thus avoiding the increase in capital gains tax. So much for the wealthy “doing more of their share”.

  83. St. Louis Longhorn says:
    January 3, 2013 at 1:21 am

    It seems like Israel can’t do right. They are patient for months as Palestinians or Hezbollah are firing rockets into their country and then they finally respond with superior weapons and they get called “mean” and “nasty.”
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The whole history of that region is complex. Without knowing the history of how the territories were divided after WWII you can not understand the present. If my foggy memory is correct, the formation of a Palestinian nation was raised at the time and the rest of the Arab world shot it down. The hatred of the Jews is not unique BTW. My grandfather was from a reviled Muslim sect. He left Syria/Lebanon before WWII to immigrate to the USA.

  84. If Al Jazeera airs ‘Current TV’ to convince people they’re NOT a propaganda parrot…

    they’re doing it wrong!

  85. Wade says:
    January 3, 2013 at 5:34 am

    And once again, I will begin to believe you, Al Gore, about CAGW when you live the way you tell me to live. Walk the walk and lead by example. Until you live poor and “sustainable” like you want me to, I won’t believe a word you say. Give your $100 million to the poor countries. The same goes for you Michael Mann, Phil Jones, and so on. When you start to live sustainable, then I will too. But I already know you are unwilling to live poor.

    To me, this is the failure of the CAGW movement. At this point, however, I wouldn’t trust any of them as far as I could comfortably spit out a rat, even if they did go full bore “sustainable”.

  86. markx says:
    January 3, 2013 at 5:12 am
    …. A couple of important comments from a couple of guys not known for their anti- semetism….
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>…
    As I said one has to look at the mess from an historical perspective. Anti-semetism ran high after WWII. It was alive and well in the USA in the 1950′s-60′s. I know because my mother, thanks to being half arab, look Jewish and was often a target despite belonging to a Christian church.

    After WWII the Allies were caught between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand they did not want to take in a flood of German Jews and on the other they had the Holocaust media disaster to deal with. Dumping the Jews into a useless bit of sand called their ‘homeland’ which was then occupied by Britian and therefore ‘their’s to give away’ was seen as the perfect solution.

    From WIKI

    …. “The Ottoman Empires was one of the greatest, most extensive, and long lasting in the History of the World. It included most of the territories of the Eastern Roman Empire(…)and held portions that the Byszantinians never ruled (…)The Ottoman Empire was born in 1300 and endured until World War I…

    In 1914 Enver Bey’s alliance with Germany led the Young Turks into the fatal step of joining Germany and Austria-Hungary in World War I, against Britain and France. The British saw the Ottomans as the weak link in the enemy alliance, and concentrated on knocking them out of the war. When a direct assault failed at Gallipoli in 1915, they turned to fomenting revolution in the Ottoman domains, exploiting the awakening force of Arab nationalism…

    when the Ottoman Empire was defeated by British Empire forces after the Sinai and Palestine Campaign in 1918, the Arab population was met with what it perceived as betrayal by the British. The British and French governments concluded a secret treaty (the Sykes-Picot Agreement) to partition the Middle East between them and, additionally, the British promised via the Balfour Declaration the international Zionist movement their support in creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Historically known as the site of the ancient Jewish Kingdom of Israel and successor Jewish nations for 1,200 years between approximately 1100BC-100AD, the region now had a large Arab population also from the 7th century. When the Ottomans departed, the Arabs proclaimed an independent state in Damascus, but were too weak, militarily and economically, to resist the European powers for long, and Britain and France soon established control and re-arranged the Middle East to suit themselves.Skyes Picot Agreement: Division of Territory…

    As I said the mess is complicated.

  87. Watching CBC makes Frank Zappa: I am the Slime, rise from my memory.
    Gross and perverted
    Obsessed and deranged
    Yup that our media.
    Al Jazeera’s obsession might be refreshing.
    Happy New Year All.

  88. Anthony, don’t be biased and give advice on how to protest against al Jazeera. It’s the only big news channel that I can barely tolerate any more. CNN is too superficial, and I flat out refuse to watch BBC because it’s unreliable. I hate the way the big news channels tell their listeners how to think about a news story. When I’ve been watching al Jazeera english, I’ve noticed how they tend to be less biased and they do make an effort to be balanced. Ok, they royally fail to do that when it comes to climate science, which is a big negative for them, though.

  89. Ric Werme says:
    January 3, 2013 at 6:11 am

    Charles Gerard Nelson says:
    January 3, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Is Al Jazeera reporting the news that hundreds of people are dying of COLD in Uttar Pradesh in India. Mostly street people they are unable to endure the lowest recorded temperatures in that region since 1969.

    I don’t know, but I was surprised to see it on the headline scroll at the bottom of a local TV newscast here in New Hampshire.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The Wunderground South East Regional map this morning had snow in Georgia and Alabama. A glitch? Or real? http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/mixedcomposite.asp?region=c5&size=2x&ID=RAX19

  90. ZootCadillac says:…..
    “………stop seeing every Arab who’s religion you don’t share as some kind of enemy because the reality.on the ground in these places is far from what your media would have you believe.”

    The fact that you would post something like this says more to me about your ignorance of America and Americans, and about what you are being reported about us and our beliefs than it does anything else.

  91. Charles Gerard Nelson says:
    January 3, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Yes, Al Jazeera is reporting the deaths of the street people of Uttar Pradesh in India.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/weather/2013/01/20131311115982714.html

    I find that Al Jazeera is excellent for coverage of news items from around the world and in particular from Asia, Africa and South America that are never covered in Western MSM. Yes, they have their prejudices the same as all MSM. But far fewer than many that are quoted as exemplars of CAGW alarmism within the pages of WUWT.

    I hope it does not come as too much of a shock for some of you to discover that a media organisation that regularly tells lies about the environment is also similarly economical with the truth regarding everything else that they report. Al Jazeera is not exempt from this. Like in Science, if you can verify, then trust, else do not.

  92. Big Al slipping under the 2013 capital gains wire with a bag of Qatari oil money would be worth a Josh cartoon surely!
    The big danger with Al Jazeera English is the assumption that it has the same point of view as Al Jazeera Arabic. BBC and Reuters also have a different face to the Arabic world.
    Westerners need desperately to hear what real conversations are going on in other parts of the world, not the “predigested news morsels, ready to eat” provided by the MSM. They only provide the illusion of knowledge.
    With free online machine translation reaching remarkable levels of quality these days, anyone can go to the horses mouth…as well as the other end.

  93. Gail Combs;
    The whole history of that region is complex. Without knowing the history of how the territories were divided after WWII you can not understand the present. If my foggy memory is correct, the formation of a Palestinian nation was raised at the time and the rest of the Arab world shot it down.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Shot down? Stole it would be the better term.

    The UN enacted the partition act in 1947. The plan was for Israel to come into existence in 1948 and for “Palestine”, roughly the area now called the West Bank and Gaza, to become a country of their own after that. Unfortunately, the Arab birthday present to Israel in 1948 was war.

    Everyone remembers that Israel won that war. What everyone conveniently forgets is what happened to the Palestinians. While Israel won the war, Egypt wound up in control of Gaza and Jordan wound up with the West Bank. With a stroke of the pen they could have given the Palestinians what the UN promised them, but they didn’t. They kept the land for themselves while refusing to make the Palestinians who lived there citizens of their own country, thus creating a nation of refugees on the very land that had been promised to them by the UN.

    Fast forward a couple three more wars and Israel not only winds up seizing the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt, but eventually winds up turning control of both over to the Palestinian Authority. So now the Palestinians are getting a shot at building their own country, not by the largess of the United Nations, nor by that of their Arab brethren.

    With “brethren” such as these, the Palestinians need few more enemies.

  94. Flash on the Purple Onion Network:
    Sluggish Current becalmed the Cheater in Chief who required a tow from al Jazeera’s oil tanker despite his aversion to floating away on warming black oil scum.

  95. Josualdo says:
    January 3, 2013 at 4:51 am

    I ocasionally read AJ on the web. Nothing too special there, slightly boring. Obviously warmist. Now if I could get my hand at a decent Russian news site…
    —————————————————————————————————–
    Try http://www.en.rian.ru .

    This english-language page by RIA Novosti is very good to get to see the other side of the coin, too, and for a russian news-outlet is only as biased as neccessary to survive.

  96. TomR,Worc,MA,USA says:
    The fact that you would post something like this says more to me about your ignorance of America and Americans, and about what you are being reported about us and our beliefs than it does anything else.

    Really Tom? That’s most insightful of you. All it tells me is that i have an opinion i wish to share about my perceived notion of mendacity and obfuscation present in the US media. I didn’t offer any comment on how Americans are represented in UK media so very well done. You don’t appear to go on to share what exactly you have gleaned from my comments so perhaps my congratulations are a little premature?

    My knowledge of America, such as it is come from over 30 years of visiting and staying there. Longer if you count how long my father was doing business with the USA and how are particular business attracted the interest of two charming fellows from the CIA who became great family friends and enriched us as a family in a number of ways. including cash. But i’m no Willis and that’s for another time.

    I don’t profess to know all of America well, none of it in fact but I bet I’ve seen much more of it than many natives. Whilst some of my comments have clearly been sweeping and not intended to be indicative of every American in residence today i can say this. Americans are a particularly wary, insular people who possess no small amount of bigotry and intolerance, not least of which is for many of their fellow Americans. This said i am a fan of the American having met enough to know that my old adage of ” people are just people, some are good, some are bad” holds true and having been drunk with enough of your compatriots tells me there are more than a good number of gems out there.

    However i will say that the one thing I have learned about your average American, with some two sigma confidence* is that he don’t take well to honest critique.

    *I made that up, for effect. But i’m sure you know that. If you would prefer i don’t generalise about your varied nation then perhaps return the compliment by not judging me on a few comments?

    I’ve turned what was meant to be a bit of honest advice about news gathering into an argument with the US about my opinion of them. None of which was intended. I have the courage of my convictions however.

  97. ZootCadillac:

    I write to thank you for your reasoned, tolerant and informative posts in this thread. And I congratulate you for your forbearance in response to the bigoted and unjustified personal attacks upon you.

    As you say, all news sources are biased and free speech is about enabling as many sources as possible so more than one bias is available for recognition and comparison. I think this was clearly expressed by ‘son of mulder’ who wrote at January 3, 2013 at 6:11 am:

    For news channels I have Al jazeera on cable and Russia Today on Freeview in the UK along with CNN, BBC, SKY, Bloomberg, Euronews, NDTV, CNBC on cable. The more angles available, the more I feel able to judge what is credible, what is propaganda and what questions to ask, as all MSM are to a lesser or greater extent prejudiced. I look forward to a Chinese news channel one day.
    On the BBC today it has been quite interesting hearing them trying to twist the recent UK rainfall statistics into a “be afraid” story and failing miserable.

    And the bias of Al-Jazeera was cogently addressed by Richard Burden in his post at January 3, 2013 at 6:55 am which begins:

    Al-Jazeera may have an Arabic name, a headquarters in Qatar, and at least nominal Arabic ownership, but to say that it represents Arabs or Muslims would be about as silly as saying that ABC News or CNN represents the U.S.A. — or that Qatar represents Arabs or Muslims.

    Perhaps your comments were opposed by people who lack the British experience so clearly reported by ‘stacyglen’ in his excellent post at January 2, 2013 at 11:44 pm. It is certain that your rational comments have been attacked by people with abhorrent prejudices who have generalised despicable behaviours of some as being representative of entire peoples.

    But, as ‘Joe’ clearly states in his excellent and informative post at January 3, 2013 at 4:28 am:

    All races, all cultures and all creeds breed Bad Men. If you aspire to support freedom you’ll never succeed as long as you allow yourself to hold such absurd generalisations!

    ‘Joe’ and you say your insights about the Middle East derive from your military experiences. Your views are supported by ‘markx’ who says (at January 3, 2013 at 1:42 am) his understanding of biased media – including Al-Jazeera – is based on his extensive experience of travel in the Middle East. Importantly, at January 3, 2013 at 5:12 am, ‘markx’ also disputes the prejudices which have been so blatantly displayed in this thread when he writes:

    Ehud Barak former Israeli prime minister Military Officer, Defence Minister, a member of the Israeli Defence Forces for 36 years who retired from the military as chief of staff and its most decorated soldier.

    And he provides this link about Ehud Barak

    http://www.theage.com.au/world/singleminded-in-military-and-politics-alike-20121127-2a457.html#ixzz2Gw30M4NF

    which includes

    Israel’s yearning for experienced military leaders brought him back to political life after the 2006 Lebanon war and he became minister of defence. He seems to have a feel for what motivates his enemies and was widely quoted as saying: “If I were a Palestinian I would have joined a terrorist organisation.” Barak also said during a US television interview last year that he would “probably” strive for nuclear weapons if he were in Iran’s position.

    As usual, Gail Combs sees the reality which has clouded the discussion. At January 3, 2013 at 7:34 am she writes

    St. Louis Longhorn says:
    January 3, 2013 at 1:21 am

    It seems like Israel can’t do right. They are patient for months as Palestinians or Hezbollah are firing rockets into their country and then they finally respond with superior weapons and they get called “mean” and “nasty.”

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The whole history of that region is complex. Without knowing the history of how the territories were divided after WWII you can not understand the present. If my foggy memory is correct, the formation of a Palestinian nation was raised at the time and the rest of the Arab world shot it down. The hatred of the Jews is not unique BTW. My grandfather was from a reviled Muslim sect. He left Syria/Lebanon before WWII to immigrate to the USA.

    And she adds to that in her post at January 3, 2013 at 8:22 am.

    The complexity is further explained and clarified in a reply to her by davidmhoffer at January 3, 2013 at 9:17 am.

    ZootCadillac, you and I share a common opposition to all forms of racism from wherever it comes and regardless of at whom it is directed. Also, we all understand that simplistic views of the Middle East problem are not only misguided but are also irrelevant to the subject of this thread which is about media bias and free speech.

    So, ZootCadillac, I thank you. Your stance for free speech and assessment of all views deserves applause, and I applaud it. The bigotry of those who only want presentation of their ‘side’ of an issue is deplorable, and I deplore it.

    Richard

  98. Moderators:
    My post addressed to ZootCadillac contained a formatting error. This is a = hopefduly – corrected submission which I as be used as a replacement. Sorry.
    Richard

    ZootCadillac:

    I write to thank you for your reasoned, tolerant and informative posts in this thread. And I congratulate you for your forbearance in response to the bigoted and unjustified personal attacks upon you.

    As you say, all news sources are biased and free speech is about enabling as many sources as possible so more than one bias is available for recognition and comparison. I think this was clearly expressed by ‘son of mulder’ who wrote at January 3, 2013 at 6:11 am:

    For news channels I have Al jazeera on cable and Russia Today on Freeview in the UK along with CNN, BBC, SKY, Bloomberg, Euronews, NDTV, CNBC on cable. The more angles available, the more I feel able to judge what is credible, what is propaganda and what questions to ask, as all MSM are to a lesser or greater extent prejudiced. I look forward to a Chinese news channel one day.
    On the BBC today it has been quite interesting hearing them trying to twist the recent UK rainfall statistics into a “be afraid” story and failing miserable.

    And the bias of Al-Jazeera was cogently addressed by Richard Burden in his post at January 3, 2013 at 6:55 am which begins:

    Al-Jazeera may have an Arabic name, a headquarters in Qatar, and at least nominal Arabic ownership, but to say that it represents Arabs or Muslims would be about as silly as saying that ABC News or CNN represents the U.S.A. — or that Qatar represents Arabs or Muslims.

    Perhaps your comments were opposed by people who lack the British experience so clearly reported by ‘stacyglen’ in his excellent post at January 2, 2013 at 11:44 pm. It is certain that your rational comments have been attacked by people with abhorrent prejudices who have generalised despicable behaviours of some as being representative of entire peoples.

    But, as ‘Joe’ clearly states in his excellent and informative post at January 3, 2013 at 4:28 am:

    All races, all cultures and all creeds breed Bad Men. If you aspire to support freedom you’ll never succeed as long as you allow yourself to hold such absurd generalisations!

    ‘Joe’ and you say your insights about the Middle East derive from your military experiences. Your views are supported by ‘markx’ who says (at January 3, 2013 at 1:42 am) his understanding of biased media – including Al-Jazeera – is based on his extensive experience of travel in the Middle East. Importantly, at January 3, 2013 at 5:12 am, ‘markx’ also disputes the prejudices which have been so blatantly displayed in this thread when he writes:

    Ehud Barak former Israeli prime minister Military Officer, Defence Minister, a member of the Israeli Defence Forces for 36 years who retired from the military as chief of staff and its most decorated soldier.

    And he provides this link about Ehud Barak

    http://www.theage.com.au/world/singleminded-in-military-and-politics-alike-20121127-2a457.html#ixzz2Gw30M4NF

    which includes

    Israel’s yearning for experienced military leaders brought him back to political life after the 2006 Lebanon war and he became minister of defence. He seems to have a feel for what motivates his enemies and was widely quoted as saying: “If I were a Palestinian I would have joined a terrorist organisation.” Barak also said during a US television interview last year that he would “probably” strive for nuclear weapons if he were in Iran’s position.

    As usual, Gail Combs sees the reality which has clouded the discussion. At January 3, 2013 at 7:34 am she writes

    St. Louis Longhorn says:
    January 3, 2013 at 1:21 am

    It seems like Israel can’t do right. They are patient for months as Palestinians or Hezbollah are firing rockets into their country and then they finally respond with superior weapons and they get called “mean” and “nasty.”

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The whole history of that region is complex. Without knowing the history of how the territories were divided after WWII you can not understand the present. If my foggy memory is correct, the formation of a Palestinian nation was raised at the time and the rest of the Arab world shot it down. The hatred of the Jews is not unique BTW. My grandfather was from a reviled Muslim sect. He left Syria/Lebanon before WWII to immigrate to the USA.

    And she adds to that in her post at January 3, 2013 at 8:22 am.

    The complexity is further explained in reply to her by davidmhoffer at January 3, 2013 at 9:17 am.

    ZootCadillac, you and I share a common opposition to all forms of racism from wherever it comes and regardless of at whom it is directed. Also, we all understand that simplistic views of the Middle East problem are not only misguided but are also irrelevant to the subject of this thread which is about media bias and free speech.

    So, ZootCadillac, I thank you. Your stance for free speech and assessment of all views deserves applause, and I applaud it. The bigotry of those who only want presentation of their ‘side’ of an issue is deplorable, and I deplore it.

    Richard

  99. Zoot,

    I certainly am not judging you in any way. Apologies if that is what you thought. I just felt that as an American I needed to respond to that little bit of you first post. It sort of jumped out at me.

    To be clear, I have no problem with AJE or it’s being broadcast here, or anywhere. As somebody astutely posted higher up in the thread, more information is always preferable to less information.

    TB

  100. { michael hart says:
    January 3, 2013 at 7:25 am
    Not one of WUWT’s best articles.
    I won’t, and do not need to, drag middle-east politics into global-warming arguments. }

    Take another look at the top of the Home page…commentary on puzzling things in….recent news.

  101. Al Gore’s partner in the deal cited high-level resources going into the channel to develop it in a way they could not do before. That was nice code for oil money from an oil export government owner of Al Jazeera. Maybe it sould be named Big Al’s Al Jazeera oil money play. And then they rushed the deal to beat Obama’s tax increase to avoid helping the children.

  102. Anthony Watts:
    “… my Irony Meter pegged.”

    We all know that’s not a real Irony Meter. It’s only a standard BS-Meter with the word “Irony” photo-shopped over the “BS”. ;-}

  103. @richardscourtney Richard. I read your comment soon after it was posted but wanted to take a little time to consider my response. I went for a walk and requisitioned two fine bottles of Chardonnay. everything tastes better with wine? Right?

    As you Richard, are no doubt aware I am an infrequent poster on WUWT although I have tried recently to alter that with more posting. The fact is I’m not nearly as academically qualified as many such as yourself here, although I am sick of being told “you are not a scientist, what do you know?” in arguments elsewhere so am starting a bachelors in environmental sciences this month. it won’t make me a scientist but it might give me a little to fight back with and who knows later?

    My comments are more provoked by experience or the comments of others touching on areas where i do have some expertise, such as construction and boatbuilding, to name a couple. I find myself often not commenting on a WUWT post because i don’t feel qualified to add to the discussion but I try to chime in when i can as I believe this is a very important time for the topic we all share a passion for and I’d like to say that I was a small part of it at the forefront of the discussion. Time will tell on that count.

    my initial comments may have been a little clumsy, but were intended to suggest that people of America especially, open their minds to more sources of information. can you ever have too much data?
    Perhaps i goofed. It’s been a difficult day since then. My comments are usually glossed over and ignored as well they might be but today there was some interest and i think it’s courteous to at least acknowledge those that address you if not always reply.

    I knew that I had chosen a particularly awkward example for my case but could not think of a better one. i expected some feedback. ( as i type I notice I’m not always capitalising letters, please forgive this as it is a quirk of my keyboard and so laborious to correct later ) I didn’t however expect some of the accusations which followed,especially after I made my position quite clear. maybe that was naive but i am a man who you will hear described as “rough”, “hard”, “forthright” and i’m sure you will understand when i say that i don’t need anyone to jump to my defence. I feel i have that in hand.

    yet here i was after a particularly difficult day feeling not a little annoyed at some commentators and their willingness to misconstrue or twist my words to their own agenda and throw in a little insult to boot.

    You Richard are amongst a number of contributors to this site whom I hold in the highest regard. Not only for your academic ability but for you wisdom and plain old common sense. So it was with some surprise that i read your comment to me above and became a little emotional, hence the walk.
    As mentioned, i didn’t need anyone in my corner but it was no small comfort to read that you were anyway.

    for those words Richard you have my gratitude and humility.

    Regards,

    Craig Frier.

    @TomR,Worc,MA,USA

    Tom, please don’t be overly concerned. For reasons given above i have been a little snappy today. thank you for your response and there is certainly no need for an apology. I just hope that I’ve made myself understood, eventually, and I’ve made no long-term enemies

    News is data. Lets welcome all new datasets that allow us to come to the best conclusion.

  104. @Zoot.
    If Israel lays down all its arms, will it’s enemies as well? Peace is all they want, right?
    Al Jazeera may be as credible as any USA media, which is still saying they are far less than adequate or what is needed in our media worldwide. Additionally, the overwhelming majority of Middle Eastern citizens are not free to criticize their govt, media, or religion. Forgive me if I keep their reporting in the proper perspective.

  105. George E. Smith says:
    January 2, 2013 at 10:02 pm
    “”””…..nga Din says:
    January 2, 2013 at 8:53 pm
    January 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm
    (Zoot) I would urge you, America to be careful of how you discuss this simply to avoid looking foolish. Yes the USA prides itself on being the land of the free but for the majority of us looking in we can see the falsity of this especially with regard to your media and especially with regard to middle east reporting about Israel.
    Your media, the big newspapers especially are incredibly biased with reporting about , Israel and whilst you will hear atrocious stories of how filthy Arab terrorist murdered a poor schoolgirl you won’t read about the 100′s of Palestinian children killed in sweeping missile attacks every month.
    ============================================================================
    (Me) “They have smart bombs that only target children? The “filthy Arab terrorist” have smart rockets that avoid children?……”””””

    (George) Well I don’t know who said what here Gunga, but, if it was you, then you are being deceived……
    =========================================================
    Sorry about the mix up , George. When I copied zootcadilac’s comment I missed his name so it looks like I was the author of the entire comment. The top part was his. The part under the “=========” was my response to him.

  106. Zoot, your initial post received the response it did because of your propensity for calling out others for being biased and hypocritical, yet the post (apparently inadvertantly) highlighted the fact that that is precisely what YOU are.

    Perhaps before pointing out the mote in your neighbor’s eye, you first locate the timber in your own.

  107. ZootCadillac;
    I just hope that I’ve made myself understood, eventually, and I’ve made no long-term enemies
    >>>>>>>>>>>>

    There are other kinds?
    If you want to make a point, I suggest that you find another topic to use as an example in the future.

    Given the option of being locked in a room for the purpose of simultaneously teaching a pig to fly, a crocodile not to bite, and to confiscate a salmon from a hungry grizzly bear OR being tasked with sorting out mid east politics, I would choose the former. The latter is a much more difficult problem with considerably more hazards to life and limb and a lower chance of success.

  108. Well, if Anthony is going to host posts about the media as well as about science, that’s fine by me. I haven’t watched Al Jazeera often enough to have an opinion, but I have to agree with Adam when he writes (January 2, 2013 at 7:34 pm):
    “It will be good to see some balance in the news reporting. CNN FOX SKY et al are not exactly giving Americans a true picture of what is going on in the world. US Citizens should be watching PressTV and Russia Today to get a bit of balance.”

  109. ZootCadillac;
    I just hope that I’ve made myself understood, eventually, and I’ve made no long-term enemies
    =============================================================================
    No enemy here.
    And just to be clear, when I asked you if you condemned 9/11, that was an honest question. From what you had said I wasn’t sure.
    As far as Al Jazzy goes, I stand by my first comment, “I wish Al all the success with Current TV that Al had.”

  110. ZootCadillac says: By contrast the Palestinians are using home made rockets with no targeting electronics. they calculate the fuel needed to reach a certain area and point and hope. The Israelis choose their targets with American weapons, the Palestinians just fire their darts in angry retribution at an occupying nation.

    The Palestinians allow Hamas to operate within their borders. They allow them to indiscriminately fire thousands or rockets at Israeli’s and have for many years. They allow Hamas to hide behind women and children, businesses, hospitals and religious institutions in firing those weapons.

    Hamas does not care, nor do the Palestinians that allow them, about who they target or who they kill.

    You note Israel’s sophisticated and accurate weapons. They DO work and when used are designed and targeted to minimize collateral damage. When Hamas cowardly surrounds themselves with innocents – and the Palestinians let them – they bear the responsibility for the collateral damage – the unnecessary deaths of women, children and civilians.

    You ignore Israel’s remarkable restraint and denigrate their limited and measured use of their sophisticated and powerful weapons, and decry innocent casualties. While minimizing the impact of tens of thousands of Hamas rockets indiscriminately fired at Israel, and that it is directly as a result of Hamas hiding behind innocents that they are at risk.

    I would be predisposed and likely to support the Palestinians in a normal situation. But they have made very clear they have little real interest in peace.

    I am quite certain that a share of the military assistance to Israel, with their blessing, would gladly be turned in to “butter” for Palestine if they truly wanted peace – if they committed to wiping out Hamas and the like once and for all. Hamas however lives and thrives on hate, so I see it as highly unlikely things will change.

    And we are quite well informed here as well. Intelligent folks understand the limitations of the MSM – we have this thing called the internet, that Windbag in Chief Al Gore claims to have invented. We can find out all sorts of things there.

  111. ZootCadillac says…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    From the untangling I have tried to do, I would say when it comes to war you have to look at who is going to make money. The ordinary citizens are always given various reasons most of which are propaganda. There is really only two reasons leaders actually go to war.

    # 1. The resources acquired are greater than the resources spent.
    # 2. Someone else has the goal of acquiring your resources.

    Historically kings had to pay for war out of their own pockets, booty and through taxes. This put a cap on war because the peasants would only put up with so much tax before revolting and the king faced war on two fronts. With fractional reserve banking the bankers could print money for the government to spend and the ‘peasants’ unknowingly paid for it through the tax called wage-devaluation/price-inflation. This allowed taxes to be raised way passed where the peasants would normally allow. That is where we are now with real tax rates ~80% in the USA.

    Hyper-inflation is the terminal stage of any fiat currency and the west is built on fiat currencies. So there is now a concerted effort by the bankers to switch from the US dollar as the World Reserve Currency to a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund or a carbon-based international reserve currency This allows the system to be reset and the game to start all over again.

    Because fractional reserve banking allows a disconnect between cause and effect, wars can now be fought so a certain segment of the population gains even though the country as a whole is impoverished. This is why “Follow the Money” has become so important and there is nothing like a variety of news sources to help you ‘follow the money’

  112. ZootCadillac,

    I went back and read your posts, and I didn’t really see anything too extreme. I’ve certainly seen worse. You did a good job explaining your comments, so I wouldn’t worry about it. Internet rules require that comment amnesia takes over within about 72 hours. A week from now almost no one will remember who said what.

    One thing I would like to correct about your perception of U.S. media. You write: “I’ve seen US media often, it still amazes me that many posters here see Fox news as a legitimate source as opposed to the far-right political activist mouthpiece it has become.”

    From the perspective of most Americans, Fox is not “far right”. It only appears that way because the rest of the mainstream media is so far left. Americans consistently self-identify in Gallup polls as “conservatives” at double the numbers that they self-identify as “liberals”.

    I shot my TV many years ago. But I know that Americans have made Fox their #1 media outlet because Fox reflects their views. But to my perspective, Fox is too liberal. I am an original Constitution and Bill of Rights kinda guy. Most changes since then have made things worse. We used to be the United States. No longer. Now we are subjects of the Federal Government.

    Anyway, I used to see the print and television media as a good thing. No more. Now it is a propaganda operation intent on telling Americans what to think. So thank goodness for the internet!

  113. Perhaps Al Gore selling out to Big Oil will result in death to “the deniers are funded by Big Oil” line of argument.

  114. “ZootCadillac says:
    January 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    I would urge you, America to be careful of how you discuss this simply to avoid looking foolish. Yes the USA prides itself on being the land of the free but for the majority of us looking in we can see the falsity of this especially with regard to your media and especially with regard to middle east reporting about Israel.

    Your media, the big newspapers especially are incredibly biased with reporting about , Israel and whilst you will hear atrocious stories of how filthy Arab terrorist murdered a poor schoolgirl you won’t read about the 100′s of Palestinian children killed in sweeping missile attacks every month.”
    ————————————————————————————————————————————
    The word “LIAR” comes to mind. You should be blaming you comrades like Hamas for this (and we all know that “100′s” is total exaggeration) It’s well known that groups like Hamas setup rocket launchers in neighborhoods in and around schools and hospitals well knowing that if Israel is forced to retaliate; innocent people may get killed. Israel doesn’t put offensive weapons in neighborhoods, so why does Hamas fire rockets into Israel’s neighborhoods?

    Crawl back into your hole Zootcadillac!

  115. I shall go out on a limb and state that the most reliable news source I’ve found on television is Beck’s new station The Blaze.

    I know some of you will roll your eyes; some of you think Beck is nuts; some of you may even consider my position to be in poor taste or undeserving of serious consideration.

    But you should judge for yourself rather than swallow the MSM’s estimation (they do have a vested interest in their disparagement of Beck, you know).

    Should you want a face-to-face evaluation, The Blaze can be found on Dish Network, channel 212 and while it costs something like $5 a month as a Dish add-on, I’ve found the information there to be spot-on and refreshingly devoid of ideological filtering or bias (One of Beck’s main reasons for leaving CNN and later for leaving Fox, by the way).

    And I predict someday The Blaze with be a substantial player in reporting the news with a reputation for accuracy and hard-hitting analysis.

  116. D Böehm says:
    January 3, 2013 at 2:24 pm


    I shot my TV many years ago. But I know that Americans have made Fox their #1 media outlet because Fox reflects their views. But to my perspective, Fox is too liberal. I am an original Constitution and Bill of Rights kinda guy. Most changes since then have made things worse. We used to be the United States. No longer. Now we are subjects of the Federal Government.

    You in particular would be happy watching The Blaze–the only station I know that is in line with your “original Constitution and Bill of Rights” identity. Or you can catch segments of The Blaze TV on the Internet if your TV is dead.

  117. A. Scott says:
    January 3, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    “…….they have made very clear they have little real interest in peace. …”

    You too would have little interest in peace if your country had been systematically dismembered during your lifetime:

    Maps of Israeli settlements: (most will not bother to look, but take a few seconds… that is all it takes to see on one page what has happened to the Palestinians)

    http://inpursuitofjustice.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/new-un-map-chart-west-bank-reality/

    I know right from wrong, and I do recognize someone who is saying one thing, yet doing another.

  118. markx;
    Maps of Israeli settlements: (most will not bother to look, but take a few seconds… that is all it takes to see on one page what has happened to the Palestinians)
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    You can no more understand what has happened to the Palestinians by looking at that map than you can understand CO2′s effect on climate by looking at GISS. Much ill has befallen those poor people, but staring at a frozen moment in time will tell you nearly nothing about why.

  119. BradProp1 says: January 3, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    “ZootCadillac says: ………
    and Brad replies…. “The word “LIAR” comes to mind. …”

    Brad, I’ll be kinder in my choice of words. In your case, the phrase “fully indoctrinated” comes to mind. Like me you were probably raised in a western world awash with stories about the heroic Israelis standing up to a world of hostile Arabs who seem to object to them settling in some unused desert.

    Unfortunately, we did not hear the rest of the story, in that every bit of fertile land in that region was already occupied, and had been owned by generations of farmers who saw it as their own land. Israeli force, and brutality was strongly evident in those early stages. Plenty of history here, for those who are interested: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

    The Palestinian cause was done a huge disservice in the 70s when extremists hijacked airliners to draw attention to the plight of Palestinians, which they unsurprisingly failed to do, and in the event managed to label the whole of the cause as terrorists.

    It never hurts to see the other man’s viewpoint, and to those in here who dread the advent of media and news that has NOT been entirely pre-filtered through a USA/Western society viewpoint, I ask what is it that you fear? There are some “other truths” out there, and the more information we have and the more viewpoints we see the better we are able to make up our own minds.

  120. davidmhoffer says: January 3, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    “… Much ill has befallen those poor people, but staring at a frozen moment in time will tell you nearly nothing about why….”

    David, I very much respect your viewpoint.

    But does that “forsen moment in time” not tell you everything about why the young and fiery are wanting to fight as their land disappears meter by meter, as the all powerful western world picks its nose and looks the other way? As Israeli settlements of 25,000 are approved and built, and dividing roads that they cannot “legally” cross without a permit divide farmers from their land, and family from family?

  121. davidmhoffer says: January 3, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    “….You can no more understand what has happened to the Palestinians by looking at that map than you can understand CO2′s effect on climate by looking at GISS. Much ill has befallen those poor people, but staring at a frozen moment in time will tell you nearly nothing about why….”

    David, I thought a little more about your statement, and went back and read it again.

    It astounds me, perhaps because I respect your factual style.

    With all due respect, you are having a Skeptical Science moment there. It was one reference to ably illustrate one point. Surely you do not expect nor wish me to publish here all I have read on the entire history of the Palestine/Israel conflict?

  122. markx: If Israel had the same “foreign policy” towards the Palestinians that the Palestinians had toward Israel, there would be NO Palestinians. Assymetric hatred to the point of genocide isn’t a viable foreign policy for any civilized nation; hatred simply destroys–generation after generation for millenia. Someday somebody will realize death (or its equivalent) isn’t a solution.

  123. RS says: January 3, 2013 at 11:35 am

    “Wow. $500 MILLION for 47,000 viewers.
    Big Al must have done someone a VERY special favor for that…”

    RS makes a very good point here. Decades in the SE Asia have taught me the rich and powerful everywhere create many clever ways to get paid for favours.

  124. “Wow. $500 MILLION for 47,000 viewers.
    Big Al must have done someone a VERY special favor for that…”

    That’s $500,000 for every 47 viewers. Clearly, this is payola to Al Gore. No business is worth that much per occasional TV viewer.

    The real reason, of course, will only be discussed in private, behind closed doors. But Gore just got handed some big time loot by an America-hating Islamist regime [no matter what they might say in public]. So, what was the quid-pro-quo? Because for that much money there had to be one.

    The Sex Poodle has demonstrated over the years that he is willing and able to be bribed, from Buddhist temple cash, to very lucrative seats on company Boards of Directors.

    This country was damn fortunate that Gore lost the election. If he had been elected, is there any doubt that he would have sold out the country to the highest bidder?

  125. Skeptical Science probably believes this is good news,

    Skeptical Science: From Al Gore to Al Jazeera (Link fixed)

    “Al Jazeera want[s] to feature SkS as the Site of the Week… Am sending them some info and pics now.” – John Cook [Skeptical Science], September 28, 2011

    “Wow, that’s a new demographic.” – nealjking [Skeptical Science], September 28, 2011

    “Great News! [...] Wow! Dude! Excellent! ( Plays air guitar. )” – logicman [Skeptical Science], September 28, 2011

    “Very cool. I’m a fan of Al Jazeera news.” – Rob Painting [Skeptical Science], September 28, 2011

    “That’s good. [...] I was wondering if WUWT had been site of the week, heh, heh, heh.” – Paul D [Skeptical Science], September 28, 2011

    “Al Jazeera is actually one of the really good sources of journalism these days. [...] I’d say they’re really taking over the mantle of NPR for doing hard news. Al Jazeera is providing a news product that all but disappeared in the US today: Unbiased news.” – Rob Honeycutt [Skeptical Science], September 29, 2011

    “…if being on Al Jazera may help, …it’s great.” – Riccardo [Skeptical Science], September 29, 2011
    “This great. Al Jazeera is an excellent news outlet …and only the truly bigoted will think that this taints SkS in any way.” – Andy S [Skeptical Science], September 28, 2011

    “Watts et al will have a field day with this. [...] I would tactfully suggest that they can link to content here (which they can do anyway), but not display any form of SkS logo.” – muoncounter (Dan Friedman) [Skeptical Science], September 29, 2011

    “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn about what WUWT says about SkS.” – John Hartz [Skeptical Science], September 30, 2011

  126. markx;
    With all due respect, you are having a Skeptical Science moment there.
    >>>>>>>>>>>

    If you have any respect for my viewpoint, you might ask yourself why I am gently suggesting to you that you are off base? Do you think this is the forum to have a debate about the facts on the ground in the middle east? Do you really want me to start dropping some facts on you? I’m trying to avoid a confrontation here, but your assertions are ill founded, out of context, and in many cases simply wrong.

    Terrorists hijacking planes in the 70′s? Here’s a fact for you. Jordan murdered 100,000 Palestinians in the 70′s in a period of just a few days. Did that make any headlines? Did anyone care? That map you linked to doesn’t have the names of the communities because the Jordanians bulldozed them into the desert and erased them forever. Where was the public outcry? Where was the press coverage? When Israel was evacuating Jews by airlift from Sarajevo and planned to take as many Muslim children as possible with them before the Serbs broke through into the city, did you know that the beloved leader of the Palestinians threatened to walk out of the Oslo accords if they did? Shame on Israel for buckling to the pressure. And shame on Arafat and all those champagne diplomats who caved to him because he’d rather that those children die than let a single muslim with a positive view of Jews into the country.

    That fence you wail about? Did you know what a bargain the Israeli’s got on the building materials? Yasser Arafat took the materials donated by Egypt to rebuild Gaza and sold them at bargain prices to Israeli contractors. His wife and daughter are living on the hundreds of millions, possibly billions, that were stolen from them. While promoting the very terrorism that prompted the building of the fence in the first place, Arafat was profiting from the fence being built.

    I wrote another ten paragraphs, and just deleted them. As I said, this isn’t the forum. But I am bluntly telling you that you are off base. Much propaganda is spouted to fan the flames of hatred and keep the conflict alive. You are, by repeating it, playing into the hands of those who hate peace and use the Palestinians as a proxy army to fight someone else’s war.

  127. Thank you all for your comments. You know I have deliberately avoided the debate about the Palestine/israel conflict, to any extent that is. it was not the discussion i wanted to provoke. It is a fascinating story for those that care to follow it and it’s not even slightly indicative of the wider mid east political situation. The fact that the geo-political situation of today is a by-product of a wider, earlier war has little bearing on what goes on today. But I’m simply not going to get deeper into that as it has never been my intention and i don’t want to give a select few a reason to misconstrue my position further.

    Let’s just say that some of you appear to know less of the truth than you no doubt believe you do and clearly have no intention of changing that. which to me merely illustrates the point i was initially making.
    It’s disturbing to see what is supposed to be a skeptical group be so closed minded on a position because it messes with their pre-conceived conclusions. I will concede that many a name in this particular thread are new names and are just chest-beating and bloviating because they believe I have insulted their ‘team’.
    Personally i try to avoid saying things to a man on the internet which i am unable or unwilling to say to his face. I’d suggest that some of you would not be so bold were you looking me in the eye.

    I’m past caring if I’ve made enemies now. I explained myself in clear English, many of you accept that explanation and understand my position and where i was going, some even challenging me on the actual point I was making, which i thank you for but I’ve lost the will to debate it now. Some of you have still wilfully ignored my explanation and painted me as something i clearly am not.

    I will ‘craw’ back into my hole’ now.

    Once again my sincere apologies to Anthony and the mods if i have caused them any unwanted attention or work in this thread.

  128. You know, it wasn’t spam. I was making a point. You deleted it. Here it is again:
    شوكراً جزيلاً

  129. davidmhoffer says: January 3, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    “……… Jordan murdered 100,000 Palestinians in the 70′s in a period of just a few days.

    …….When Israel was evacuating Jews by airlift from Sarajevo and planned to take as many Muslim children as possible with them before the Serbs broke through into the city, did you know that the beloved leader of the Palestinians threatened to walk out of the Oslo accords if they did? ……

    ……fence you wail about? Did you know what a bargain the Israeli’s got on the building materials? Yasser Arafat took the materials donated by Egypt to rebuild Gaza and sold them at bargain prices to Israeli contractors…….

    ……..this isn’t the forum. ……..Much propaganda is spouted to fan the flames of hatred and keep the conflict alive. …….. a proxy army to fight someone else’s war….”

    Certainly there are some things there I have not heard of David. And certainly, I am not surprised by the story that Arafat was terribly self-serving and corrupt.

    And they may well all be true, but none of them serve as any evidence that the Palestinians have not been grievously wronged from the start, and continue to be grievously wronged. These are just additional wrongs heaped upon them by their own and others.

    I agree with the points as summarized in the last quoted paragraph above, especially that this is not the forum for it, and except to note that there are at least two proxy sides to that war and its propaganda, I will say no more of it here.

    Regards, Mark.

  130. OK, I’m going to take what is likely to be a controversial position here. Please bear with me…

    I regularly watch Al Jazeera news. I have it on the Satellite dish. It’s on a timer for their daily news show. ( “Link TV” carries it. “Link TV” is an incredibly Progressive – liberal – socialists channel).

    Their news is generally fairly ‘straight’. It does have a bit of ‘pro Arab’ bias in it, and you will not get any anti-Muslim coverage of anything on it. They will also have significant bias on anything related to Israel (often can’t even say the name… they use “The Occupied Territories” instead). Yet for things like “What is happening on the streets in Cairo”, it puts everything else to shame.

    They also give the stuff our news shows won’t tell us about due to ‘political considerations’…

    So, like eworrall1 said; there’s stuff you just don’t get on our news that shows up on theirs. How many places Obama bombed lately. What’s happening in the Arab Street in response to the Drone Wars. How Pakistan is getting a bit livid over it. Etc. etc.

    I find that to get the most accurate total news, using a broad net and ‘compare and contrast’ works well. I first learned this on shortwave radio back in the ’70s. Radio Moscow AND Radio Havana AND BBC AND Voice Of America AND… When they all say “Hurricane hit”, it likely happened. When one is silent and several others have the ‘goods’ on something the first one wants to ignore, the story is likely right. If one is spouting ‘their party line’ and the others have nothing, or the opposite, it really stands out as The Big Lie. (Even the American Big Lies…)

    So I had “on the street coverage” of the Benghazi Consulate raid damn near same day. I had a front row seat through most of the Egypt Rebellion and the rest of the Arab Spring. Pretty much all of it ‘checked out’.

    FWIW, on Link they also have a program called “Mosaic” that has short, like 6 minute, excerpts from various national news outlets in the middle east. Jordan, Iran, etc. It includes Israeli nightly news. It is spectacularly clear that the various national news shows are highly loaded with propaganda content (though you get good at filtering out the real information and tossing the propaganda). Again, the “compare and contrast” of Jordan vs Israel vs Syria can be pretty clear as to who is making stuff up. Like the recent rocket attacks on Israel. The Israel news was pretty clean. Lots of real film and you decide. Palestinian film was all about how “the occupier” had slaughtered innocents by doing counterbattery fire against missile launch sites… clearly dressed up and staged AND demonstrated that they were housing missiles in civilian proximity.

    So I regularly watch Mosaic too. Just keep those propaganda filters tuned up ;-)

    Oh, and Link is rabidly pro AGW while Al Jazeera seems only tepidly so. (Frankly, I don’t remember them having an editorial position on it, mostly reporting political / middle east news). Some of the oil funded shows on Link are clearly rabid pro-AGW though, so I think there’s some OPEC money trying to get coal killed as it is a cheap alternative. They (Opec Oil) are definitely pushing an anti-fracking agenda to try and stop cheap natural gas.

    FWIW, I usually set up a ‘jump loop’ of news programs when I’m doing a news dredge. CNN, CNBC or CNBC World depending on time of day, Fox and Fox Business, and Al Jazeera / Mosaic. Sometimes the BBC, though in the last 1/2 dozen years I’ve mostly stopped watching them as it was clearly manicured agenda driven and not just news any more.

    Every so often some D*mn Fool or other will accuse me of being in a ‘conservative echo chamber’ and, horrors, watching Fox News!!!! I then point out my “sweep” list of news shows and ask them just how “Right Wing” is Link TV and Al Jazeera and CNN anyway?…. Usually shuts them up.

    Fox has their bias too. Mostly they like Right / Left food fights or “pundits” from the right. Their news shows are pretty much straight news, though, and they do divide editorial shows from news shows. Fox Business is better. CNBC is OK on news, CNBC World is better; and I’ve often gotten news first on the financial shows – where time literally is money and the basic facts have to be right – than on the ‘real news’ channels. CNN does a better job on major international issues – like the Benghazi coverage that was stellar. It just takes them a bit of time to ‘ramp up’ in odd places. In Egypt, they had to pull their folks back after some noses were punched… while Al Jazeera was sitting with the demonstrator interviewing them…. but don’t expect to see any Al Jazeera coverage of California brush fires…

    Watching them all in rotation and tossing the junk works best.

    So as a long time watcher of Al Jazeera, I’m just not seeing it as a problem.

    What I could see being a problem, though, would be if they start filling the time between news shows with a load of Middle East Oil Centric ‘shows for effect’ as is the case on Link… then again, that’s why I don’t watch the other shows on Link ;-)

  131. markx;
    Certainly there are some things there I have not heard of David. And certainly, I am not surprised by the story that Arafat was terribly self-serving and corrupt.
    And they may well all be true, but none of them serve as any evidence that the Palestinians have not been grievously wronged from the start, and continue to be grievously wronged. These are just additional wrongs heaped upon them by their own and others.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    You’ve missed my point. There is much more you don’t know. Every fence, check point, policy and community has a story behind it, A complicated story. If you don’t know that story, you cannot judge. That mapped you linked to is a frozen point in time. There are reasons for everything on that map, some of which I agree with and some of which I do not. The difference between you and me is that I know enough of the history to draw informed conclusions. Someone looking at that map and nothing else will draw the precise conclusions that map was intended to foster. It is a propaganda piece and was intended to mislead in the precise manner which you are using it.

  132. davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 6:57 am
    “You’ve missed my point.”

    And you have missed mine.
    Lets forget the map. And all the disasters of history. It is in fact a very simple story:

    Summary. If you walk into another man’s country behind someone else’s gun, then proceed to take it off him a piece at a time with the backing of the world’s most powerful friend, while all the time saying “If only he would be nice about this it would hardly hurt at all”, and then blame him for the absolute disaster you create within his society, by my standards you are in the wrong.

  133. And while I am here again, a word to Rocky: RockyRoad says: January 3, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    “…. If Israel had the same “foreign policy” towards the Palestinians that the Palestinians had toward Israel, there would be NO Palestinians….”

    Just because you CAN do something does not make you right.

    On second thoughts, this IS relevant to this discussion about Al Jazeera, because a helluva lot of people need to see more than one side to a lot of stories besides this one.

  134. Coupla maps in here, from B’TSELEM:

    http://www.btselem.org/maps

    B’TSELEM – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

    Not sure whose “propaganda” you may say that is, but it is probably not Arab.

  135. markx;
    Summary. If you walk into another man’s country behind someone else’s gun, then proceed to take it off him a piece at a time with the backing of the world’s most powerful friend, while all the time saying “If only he would be nice about this it would hardly hurt at all”, and then blame him for the absolute disaster you create within his society, by my standards you are in the wrong
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    1947 => UN promised West Bank and Gaza to he Palestinians
    1948 => Jordan seizes West Bank. Egypt seizes Gaza. They refuse to give them to the Palestinians
    1967 => Arab war against Israel goes very bad for the Arabs, Israel winds up with the West Bank and Gaza

    Subsequent to which:

    Israel has turned governance of the West Bank and Gaza over to the Palestinians.

    Roadmap agreements have been negotiated and signed that include land swaps. Overlay the map of the land swaps on the current map so that you can see why new communities are being built where they are.

    Several peace deals in which the Palestinians got everything they asked for were negotiated and rejected by the Palestinian leadership.

    The Israelis have given the Palestinians back the land their Arab “brothers” stole for them, land paid for with Israeli blood. They have withdrawn their troops, for which they were told they would get peace. Instead they got new levels of terrorism. So they built fences to keep the suicide bombers out, check points to stop the bombs and prevent materials used for terror from being acquired. Egypt, yes EGYPT is AS MUCH A PART OF THIS AS ISRAEL yet you say nothing about their role in the matter.

    Who is doing what to who?

    And you accuse me of being a Skeptical Science acolyte on the matter?

    You sir, are a useful idiot who buys into the very misrepresentation of history that keeps the Palestinian people enslaved to conflict and bloodshed. You are helping to kill them with your ignorance.

  136. Did anyone read the latest statements translated from AN ARABIC speech by Egyptian’s great hope, President Mohamed Morsi, ‘Israeli-Palestinian negotiations are “a waste of time and opportunities” as Arabs and Muslims get nothing out of engagement with “the descendants of apes and pigs,”.’

    If one wants to know what the Arab nations really think, they must listen to the speeches, directed at their own people.

    ‘ “the Zionist and American enemies for the sole purpose of opposing the will of the Palestinian people.” Therefore, he stressed, “No reasonable person can expect any progress on this track.”

    “Either [you accept] the Zionists and everything they want, or else it is war,” Morsi said, “This is what these occupiers of the land of Palestine know – these blood-suckers, who attack the Palestinians, these warmongers, the descendants of apes and pigs.”

    If Al Jazeera reports these speeches, then they provide us with a better understanding, of who, we are really dealing with. GK

  137. markx;
    B’TSELEM – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I’ll tell you what Mark. I’ll sit for one day in the centre of Jerusalem with a sign hung around my neck saying that I hate Jews. You can spend the same day sitting at the centre of Gaza City with a sign around your neck saying you hate Muslims. We can meet afterward to compare notes about human rights violations.

    Well I’ll be at the meeting. You I’m not so certain of.

  138. davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:03 am
    “……. keeps the Palestinian people enslaved ……” Perhaps they prefer some choices in which type of slavery they receive:

    Israeli Settlements: Time Magazine (Three Days ago)

    By Karl Vick Dec. 31, 2012

    At the start of 2012, the Israeli advocacy group Peace Now, which seeks a two-state solution, warned that the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was building Jewish settlements on the West Bank at a pace that, if allowed to continue, would carve up the land to a point that would doom the possibility of a viable Palestinian state.

    Twelve months later, that pace has nearly quintupled. In one week of December alone, Netanyahu’s government pushed forward plans for 11,000 homes beyond the Green Line that marked Israel’s 1967 border — nearly as many settler homes as were approved in the previous 10 years combined. ….

    http://world.time.com/2012/12/31/the-west-banks-2012-the-year-of-the-israeli-settlement/#ixzz2H1g8EVdE

    There is no intention by current Israeli government to leave the Palestinians anything. And I doubt there ever was.

  139. Al Gorzeera didn’t just pick up his ball and go home in disgust at his failure to lead his fellow Americans into a green future, he decided Americans needed punishment for this lack of interest. Or maybe he thought the only green in his future was the 100M bucks for sale of the wreckage before it depreciated further along with his other investments.

  140. markx;
    At the start of 2012, the Israeli advocacy group Peace Now
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    You keep quoting the opinions of other people rather than becoming familiar with the facts themselves and drawing your own conclusions. And you accuse me of being a Skeptical Science acolyte?

  141. markx;
    Twelve months later, that pace has nearly quintupled. In one week of December alone, Netanyahu’s government pushed forward plans for 11,000 homes beyond the Green Line that marked Israel’s 1967 border
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    which part of the already negotiated and agreed to land swaps do you not understand?

  142. davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:54 am

    “…accuse me of being a Skeptical Science acolyte…?”. Sorry, that one must have really stung, you keep bringing it up: It was light hearted reference to their style of redirecting discussion. It was not meant as a wounding insult, but I now see it could be taken that way by someone who perhaps regards them even less favorably than I do. In that instance, I do apologize.

    There is nothing light hearted about the rest of this discussion though:

    davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:03 am

    “….1948 => Jordan seizes West Bank…[a note, with British trained troops under the leadership of British officers...]…. Egypt seizes Gaza. …… ”

    As is often said in here, you don’t get to make up your own facts, and nor should anyone get to start history where they see fit:

    “Britain’s high commissioner for Palestine [from 1928 to 1931], John Chancellor, recommended total suspension of Jewish immigration and land purchase to protect Arab agriculture. He said ‘all cultivable land was occupied; that no cultivable land now in possession of the indigenous population could be sold to Jews without creating a class of landless Arab cultivators’…The Colonial Office rejected the recommendation.”

    John Quigley, “Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice.” http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

    David also said: “…..You keep quoting the opinions of other people rather than becoming familiar with the facts themselves and drawing your own conclusions….”

    Well, I’m quoting from articles I have read over many years of reading up on the subject, and mainly the ones I think are in the right. You were expecting perhaps personal interviews?

  143. davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:56 am

    “…I’ll sit for one day in the centre of Jerusalem with a sign hung around my neck saying …. etc….
    …..Well I’ll be at the meeting. You I’m not so certain of….”

    David, in effect you are saying, “I don’t like them, I don’t understand them, and I don’t see what the hell they have got to be upset about, so therefore they MUST be wrong”. In fact the extreme nature of their current religious views while abhorrent to most, does not make any particular fact right or wrong.

    And you have to wonder if we would so often see such extremist Islamic views had they not seen this injustice steadily unfold over a century.

  144. Well, I’m quoting from articles I have read over many years of reading up on the subject, and mainly the ones I think are in the right.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Mainly the ones that come from bigoted sources that play directly into the hands of those who keep the conflict alive.

  145. markx;
    David, in effect you are saying, “I don’t like them, I don’t understand them, and I don’t see what the hell they have got to be upset about, so therefore they MUST be wrong”.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    You bitched about human rights and I proposed a test to see which of the two groups would do a better job of respecting human rights. You have’t got the balls to take the test and instead rationalize that one side doesn’t respect human rights, but its OK for them not to.

  146. markx,

    I will concede that the American news media has a pro-Israel slant. But when I read comments by various Islamist leaders that emanate from numerous Middle Eastern countries, pledging to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and similar genocidal threats of total annihilation, my conclusion is that the Arabs/Islamists are completely in the wrong. I never read about CAIR or any other Muslim organisations, or individuals for that matter, reprimanding those warmongering haters. Silence is concurrence.

    I am not jewish, and I suppose there is wrongdoing on both sides. But the fact remains that Israel is just a sliver of land that has been made productive, and the Islamists cannot stand to see that success. It is the same hate-filled tribalism that China exhibits toward Taiwan. Islamist cults are deliberately instigating and escalating this conflict by firing thousands of rockets into civilian areas, bombing civilian buses, etc. If they stopped, Israel would stop retaliating. Thus, the blame must be laid squarely at the feet of the Islamist haters.

    Self defense is a human right, so being an apologist for instigating violence is a very weak argument. If your neighbor constantly threw hand grenades over the fence onto your land, I would not criticize you for retaliating. The situation in Israel is no different.

  147. markx;
    David, in effect you are saying, “I don’t like them, I don’t understand them, and I don’t see what the hell they have got to be upset about,
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    And that is an ugly, ignorant, and abhorrent assertion. I have responded to you with the facts of the matter in any number of issues, historical perspective, and big picture, showing you who the Palestinians are the victims of, and stating for the record that my heart goes out to them for the predicament they find themselves in, and the manner in which they have been abused to no end by their Arab brethren and their astoundingly corrupt leadership. I’m bleeding for them, and you accuse me of not liking them, not understanding them. I say the things I do because my heart breaks for what they are going through.

    But you are locked into a bigoted, racist and ignorant view of the world that will continue to get people on both sides killed. You indeed are a useful idiot, tragic for the Palestinians that there are so many of you.

  148. “In February of last year, Gore said investors in oil and gas companies that ignore the cost of carbon dioxide emissions and other greenhouse gases are making a mistake similar to those who invested in subprime mortgages.”

    Al is stepping away from CAGW. He’s “done his bit”. That is what he will soon say: he “raised consciousness”, helped increase our awareness of Man’s impact on the planet, assisted in bringing the people of the world to see their joint responsibilities and power to create a kinder, sustainable lifestyle. He has nothing to regret, nothing to apologize for. CAGW may not be the demon that it first appeared to be, but perhaps that is in part due to our understanding of what we can do to minimize CO2 pollution.

    Al is smiling all the way to the bank. We may think he is a hypocritical opportunist but there are many others who will say that the world is in a better place than it would have been without his involvement, despite the “reduced” role of anthropogenic CO2 to our changing climate.

    He makes me think of the idiots pushing sub-prime mortgages while we knew they were a bad idea: they ended up with the mansions by the sea and we ended up with the second jobs at WalMart. Ultimately, who are the idiots in these stories ….

    … idiots in the street-sense, not the philosophical, ethical or moral sense.

  149. Doug Proctor says:
    January 4, 2013 at 11:52 am
    “In February of last year, Gore said investors in oil and gas companies that ignore the cost of carbon dioxide emissions and other greenhouse gases are making a mistake similar to those who invested in subprime mortgages.”

    Al is stepping away from CAGW. He’s “done his bit”. That is what he will soon say: he “raised consciousness”, helped increase our awareness of Man’s impact on the planet, assisted in bringing the people of the world to see their joint responsibilities and power to create a kinder, sustainable lifestyle. He has nothing to regret, nothing to apologize for. CAGW may not be the demon that it first appeared to be, but perhaps that is in part due to our understanding of what we can do to minimize CO2 pollution.
    =========================================================================
    Maybe I’m wrong here, but wasn’t one of the Climategate emails about Algore becoming a liability to “The Cause”?

  150. D Böehm says: January 4, 2013 at 10:52 am

    “…. there is wrongdoing on both sides. ….”

    In this we agree.

    “….. Israel is just a sliver of land that has been made productive, and the Islamists cannot stand to see that success…..”

    That is not the main issue, it is ownership of that land that is the issue.

    “….. If they stopped, Israel would stop retaliating…..”

    True. And calmly continue to take their land while allowing them to live as second class citizens with a lower level of rights somewhere near the place where they once owned the land.

    “……. If your neighbor constantly threw hand grenades over the fence onto your land….” ….

    …..that you had taken from them because you could, you would understand the attitude of the dispossessed. Older, wiser men know there is little to be gained from such violence in the face of such overwhelming odds, but surely they understand the bitter defiance of youth.

  151. markx says:

    “…it is ownership of that land that is the issue.”

    Just about every country owns its land by right of conquest. Do you propose that the U.S. and Canada should give their territory to the various Indian tribes? What about Australia?

    My view of the so-called Palestinians is not good. Why don’t their fellow Arabs take them in? There’s plenty of room in neighboring countries.

    I don’t think we will ever be in agreement, because as far as I’m concerned, Israel should run them all off permanently. Their incessant, whining grievances over everything are a real turnoff. Arabs must be born with a grievance gene, and I’m tired of hearing about their problems. We all have problems.

  152. markx;
    True. And calmly continue to take their land while allowing them to live as second class citizens with a lower level of rights somewhere near the place where they once owned the land
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    They were offered 100% of Gaza, 98% of the West Bank, land swaps to make up the difference, complete control over their land and borders. Their leadership responded with a new wave of terror. Despite which they have today: 100% of Gaza, 98% of the West Bank, and an agreed to road map that outlines the specific land swaps that will be finalized in a future peace agreement.

    Now are you tired of spouting worn out anti-Semitic screeds that have no basis in fact, or do you wish to continue demonstrating your remarkable inability to separate facts from propaganda?

  153. • davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 10:41 am
    ……(re) articles ….. “Mainly the ones that come from bigoted sources that play directly into the hands of those who keep the conflict alive”.
    I am not sure it would be fair to label Jewish and Israeli publications I have quoted above as bigoted.

    • davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 10:53 am
    “…..showing you who the Palestinians are the victims of, and stating for the record that my heart goes out to them for the predicament they find themselves in, and the manner in which they have been abused to no end by their Arab brethren and their astoundingly corrupt leadership. I’m bleeding for them……I say the things I do because my heart breaks for what they are going through…..”

    I am glad to hear that you are in fact human, David. But they were not just wronged by their neighbours and so-called brethren, a process in which the colonial powers played a huge part, But also the Truman decisions, and ongoing dispossession of land and rights by the Israelis.

    They are, quite simply, a people who have been grievously wronged.

    I presume both of us are old enough to see that fighting in the face of these odds will get them nothing but dead, and no doubt the older citizens amongst the Palestinians feel the same. But if Ehud Barak, Israel’s most decorated soldier understood (and stated, in spite of being a former Israeli PM with all the politics that entails), why the Palestinians fight, surely we should be able to understand too.

    “….. bigoted, racist and ignorant view of the world ……idiot…..”

    Just because someone calls ‘you’ on an issue that they perceive is wrong, does not mean they in any way dislike ‘your people’. Labeling and ‘name calling’ the other side because you disagree with that viewpoint does not make you correct. We see similar tactics used constantly in the debate on CAGW.

  154. D Boem;
    I don’t think we will ever be in agreement, because as far as I’m concerned, Israel should run them all off permanently.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    With all due respect, I have to strenuously disagree. There are a lot, and I do mean a LOT of countries in this world whose history includes solving problems by doing just that. Civilized countries simply don’t do such things.

    The fact is that Egypt turned their guns on the Palestinians which forced many of them to flee to Jordan. Jordan murdered 100,000 of them and many of the rest fled to Lebanon. The Christian Philange in Lebanon murdered thousands there. Israel was excoriated for not intervening and rightfully so. But when it later turned out that Palestinian gunmen on Arafat’s orders herded unarmed men, women and children toward the fighting in order to ensure a body count high enough to get world attention, it went nearly unreported.

    The Palestinians have been screwed over by everyone in the region, their own leadership most of all. Their only hope for a life with any normalcy at all is to make peace with Israel. But that doesn’t serve the interests of the Islamists who pull the strings of Hamas, Hezbollah and others from the comfort of their oil rich capitals. Everyone lauded Saudi Arabia for stepping up and supplying K-12 education materials for all of Gaza. Not much reporting of the fact that the social studies text books contain explicit claims that Jews murder Palestinian children to make matzoh for Passover. That’s what they are taught in Grade 3. The teaching of hate begins early, it is systemic, insidious, and it produces suicide bombers precisely as it was intended to.

    So what should Israel do? Frankly I haven’t a clue. Defend themselves as best they can I suppose, and hope for some fundamental change that will produce a Palestinian leadership with some real interest in doing what is right for their people. As it stands now however, the Palestinians have been manipulated into a seething cauldron of hate for the only people in the region that have treated them in a humane manner.

  155. markx;
    I am not sure it would be fair to label Jewish and Israeli publications I have quoted above as bigoted.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    If you suppose that there are no bigoted publications from Jewish and Israeli sources, then you are a bigger fool than I imagine. There are many, and you’ve quoted several of them. You’ve even quoted as well a British politician attempting to make the case that Jews should not be allowed to buy land in Israel because they are Jews. A more bigoted position than that cannot exist.

  156. markx;
    and ongoing dispossession of land and rights by the Israelis.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Which part of 100% of Gaza, 98% of the West Bank, and land swaps to make up the difference, do you fail to understand?

  157. davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    “….Despite which they have today, 100% of Gaza, 98% of the West Bank…..”

    Ah. No, they don’t. And his brings us right back to the maps, David.

    http://www.btselem.org/maps

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

    http://peacenow.org/map.php

    http://www.principiamarsupia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/settlements_map_eng_201101.pdf

    and..

    “Israel has failed the test. Palestinian control of 12% of the West Bank does not mean that Israel has given up its attitude of superiority and domination…The bloodbath that has been going on for three weeks is the natural outcome of seven years of [Israeli] lying and deception.” Israeli journalist Amira Hass, “Israel Has Failed The Test,” in Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, 10/18/00.

    The telling point is, the Israelis never went to peace talk with a map at any time, but now, in this age of the Internet, no one can continue to say one thing yet do another, and simply expect to be believed.

  158. markx says:

    “They are, quite simply, a people who have been grievously wronged.”

    So? Lots of people have been grievously wronged. How about the Aus aborigines, or the Amerinds? Why are you being such a busybody over Palis? You do know that a “Palestinian” is anyone who happens to be in a certain location. It’s not like they are a discrete tribe. Technically, some Israelis are Palis, too.

    This particular pot is being constantly stirred by outside interests with ulterior motives. The totally corrupt UN, which legally established Israel and gave it legitimacy, is now the home of more than 190 countries that are overtly anti-Semitic, and which would cry crocodile tears — but would secretly cheer if Israel was destroyed. [Israel will not be destroyed. It serves those outside interests too well as it is. Without Israel, who would there be for Islamists to hate on?]

    It’s time to ask yourself why you’re not beating the drum for other oppressed groups. Why is your agenda strictly with the Palestinians? Many Palis are Israeli citizens, with full rights. How many jews are citizens of Islamist countries, with full rights? Do you beat the drum for their predicament?

    You really need to re-think your position.

  159. markx;
    Just because someone calls ‘you’ on an issue that they perceive is wrong, does not mean they in any way dislike ‘your people’.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Sir, you accused me of disliking them, an assertion which is false and which a reading of my comments in this thread will demonstrate is false. I said nothing to justify that accusation, nor the one I’ve quoted above.

  160. markx;
    Israeli journalist Amira Hass, “Israel Has Failed The Test,” in Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, 10/18/00.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    You have an impressive array out of out of context quotes and misinformation at your fingertips. Stock in trade for what you are.

  161. • davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    Sir, you accused me of disliking them, an assertion which is false and which a reading of my comments in this thread will demonstrate is false. I said nothing to justify that accusation, nor the one I’ve quoted above.

    You may misunderstand me here. This was in response to you calling me an anti-Semite, and bigoted. Ie, your perception is that I don’t like a particular people. Just because I disagree with how a particular nation and its government are acting quite obviously says nothing about how I perceive its people.

    • davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    ….an impressive array out of out of context quotes and misinformation ….”

    It would be hard to put that particular quote from an Israeli journalist in a different context, titled as it was, “Israel Has Failed The Test”? ….

  162. I have no dog in the Israel/Pali fight, but I can see that the situation is being manipulated by outside interests and useful idiots. Also, I am certainly not encouraging Israel to run the so-called “Palestinians” off their land; I just wouldn’t care if they did. Or not. I just get tired of the incessant Arab whining over every perceived slight. They need to man up and make something of themselves, like the Israelis did. Instead, they engage in their incessant complaining.

    What I wonder about is why someone would get all riled up over this particular issue, when there are plenty of similar problems in the world. IMHO, one of the primary culprits in this whole sorry episode is the nefarious United Nations. I can just see George Soros behind the scenes, pulling strings. Soros was the quintessential Judas Goat in WWII, herding his own people into boxcars. The bastard is still at it.

  163. D Böehm says: January 4, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    “…..So? Lots of people have been grievously wronged. How about the Aus aborigines, or the Amerinds? …”

    True, those people were also wronged, and reading their history is heartbreaking.
    We can also see that the damage to a dispossessed people carries down through many generations.

    “…busybody…” ???
    I’m stating my opinion. You are stating your opposing viewpoint. Equally busy, perhaps?

  164. markx,

    As I stated, I have no dog in this fight, so ‘busybody’ does not apply. What I’m still wondering is why you care so much about this particular situation above all others.

    I’m going to bed. You can have the last word; it’s more important to you than it is to me.

  165. markx;
    It would be hard to put that particular quote from an Israeli journalist in a different context, titled as it was, “Israel Has Failed The Test”? ….
    >>>>>>

    Yes, one comment, from over ten years ago, completely out of context, by a single journalist who happens to be an Israeli defines the entire reality of the middle east. I could drown you in quotes from Israeli journalists arguing any position you would like on any topic you would like. As I said before, you have an impressive array of out of context talking points and quotes at your fingertips. I’ve seen most of them before, I know where they come from, and I know what you are.

  166. @Day by Day

    Remember–in Israel women can drive, work, walk in public without a man and not be raped, and it doesn’t take 4 witnesses to claim rape. Women are not stoned for being raped either–It’s a no brainer which side I would be on even it if it were not historically the land of the semites.

    Spare us this drivel: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/01/leading-zionist-orthodox-rabbi-issues-hyper-restrictive-womens-modesty-rules-345.html

  167. @policycritic:

    Speaking of drivel, cherry-picking one example of a wacko and presuming that he represents mainstream culture, is nothing but lame propaganda. Day-by-day has it right. There is no comparison between the 7th Century backward Islamist barbarians and modern Israelis, who are culturally no different than modern Europeans.

    Al Jazeera is the Middle East counterpart to the American mainstream media. It emits heavily biased propaganda just like CNN and MSNBC. For the straight skinny you need to read a wide range of internet news, and make up your mind after filtering out the spin. It’s not easy. But it is a much better system than listening to AJ’s cheerleaders. If there is one defining trait among Islamists, it is their propensity to look you in the eye, smile, and lie.

  168. D Böehm says: January 5, 2013 at 4:44 am

    says “…If there is one defining trait among Islamists…” and “…incessant whining…”

    Without quoting the rest of your views I think it is obvious what sort of a person you are. Labels abound, but I won’t use them, as they are superfluous in your case. Your words speak volumes.

    davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    “…. quotes at your fingertips. I’ve seen most of them before, I know where they come from, and I know what you are….”

    Internet, books and on my hard drive. It’s not hard.

    And I think you would be very surprised at what I am. Science background, hence the propensity to research and cite. Jewish ancestry, though brought up in a largely atheist household. Skeptical enough to realize all the ‘history’ we read from either viewpoint has been slanted and re-written enough to justify the actions of one side or the other. And pragmatic enough to sift through much of that and have my own views of right and wrong.

    We are in agreement perhaps in some areas: there is now no clear solution, and perhaps (in retrospect, and with the pragmatism of advancing years on my part) the Palestinians should have taken that which they were offered in the past (and there are, of course, distinctly opposing positions about what such deals really offered).

    Though it is plain why they did not; accepting any deal accepted all the damage they had been dealt to that point, and all that had been taken from them. And perhaps they were hoping, obviously in vain, for a fairer, caring ‘world community” to have some say at some future point in time.

  169. markx;
    And I think you would be very surprised at what I am. Science background, hence the propensity to research and cite. Jewish ancestry,
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Not surprised at all.

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