Global Warming Skepticism and the New Segregation

Yes that’s how witchhunt works, It won’t ever stop..

Incredibly tone-deaf. You’re sullying your website’s brand tremendously.
REPLY: I know talking about such things are a risk, and that some people may be turned off by the essay from the newspaper in Ohio, but at the same time skeptics are being labeled with horrible labels as we’ve seen in the recent ABC episode. Saying nothing and acquiescing to such labels is equally sullying, IMHO. I think the concern, while understandable, is misplaced. – Anthony

I am not sure this is a good way to go in our thinking. There are many sub-cultures who feel persecuted and few of them which deserves it. Name calling is a normal response to those whose arguments are weak and whose world view is threatened.
Let me explain it in another context. I believe that God created the world. I am quite sure that if I have “nothing” and then it explodes, I don’t get something (big bang). I am quite sure that the apparent design in nature is because it is designed. I am also quite sure that there is no source of information (with coding, semantics etc. ) in the universe other than from intelligence (and it is seen in every biological cell), but the point is that even climate sceptics will use names against creationists or supporters of intelligent design (I haven’t seen it on this blog though).
The view of the science held by creationists/ID is deemed useless, fraudulent, ignorant etc., with all the same attitudes shown by AGWers to climate sceptics, with the same media control and court battles. The fact that many working scientists, doctors, astronomers , biologists hold creationist views is just unbelievable to those who never heard of it – it cannot be true, it is a madness, these people should be ….
I suggest that it is best to avoid a persecution complex because it doesn’t help and it is somewhat hypocritical. As climate sceptics you know the science is on your side, just as the black people knew that they were fully human and not lesser animals, and no better or worse than white people. There is no need to respond to the provocative name calling.
Note: I am using this only as an illustration, not to introduce creationism/ID into this blog.

Good article. I have been treated this way for years because I smoke. Shunned and looked down on as dumb, lazy etc. Now I guess I am a third or fourth rate citizen because I smoke and deny human caused climate change. Fabulous world we live in. Anything that is against the main stream relegates one to second rate citizenship.

First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win – Mahatma Ghandi

Bravo! This is well and truly called for.
Though the witch trials may be a better parallel.

“REPLY: Climate skeptics are smeared with pedophile labels and you are worried about this article? Odd – Anthony”
What is odd about that? That your adversaries act as immature children has nothing to do with the integrity of your blog.
REPLY: So discussing a touchy subject in an adult manner affects the integrity? I don’t think so. I just think it makes you and some others uncomfortable – Anthony

princessartemis says:
November 25, 2012 at 9:29 am
At least his protective bubble has finally been pierced, I suppose. What an atrocious article. Maybe he’ll get a hangnail next and come to a sudden understanding of what it’s like to be disabled in America…
____________________________
I do not consider ‘spikes and bombs’ to be just hangnails. Ecoterrorism is very very real and increasing as that paper from George Washington University shows. History shows labeling people and calling them nasty names is the first step in what can become lethal aggression. Until you are labeled there is no target for aggression. Once you are labeled “Deniers” for example, then you can become the focus for escalating the hate. It is a typical tactic used by politicians, and gangs.
Here is an example:
Is climate science disinformation a crime against humanity? Deeply irresponsible corporate-sponsored programmes of disinformation have potentially harsh effects upon tens of millions of people ( Donald Brown is associate professor in environmental ethics, science and law at Penn State University.)
Google returns 84,000 results for the phrase ‘is climate science disinformation a crime against humanity’ they so helpfully provide. (Yet there is absolutely no evidence of major corporate-sponsored programmes of disinformation unless you are talking of CAGW.)
Once a group is isolated, labeled and smeared with nasty ‘crimes’ history shows that atrocities often follow. We certainly have a recent example of just such a labeling and scapegoating for political gain.
To ignore this escalation by the powerful who stand to profit from the ‘green project’ $$$$$ is dangerous. They hope we will go away but are not above terrorizing ‘Deniers’ into compliance as the Animal Liberation Front has done.
See FBI report: http://www.oocities.org/anarcores/fbionalf.html
(Anyone who does not realize all these groups have the backing of the very powerful are ignoring the money flow.)

John Thorpe says:
November 25, 2012 at 10:27 am
First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win – Mahatma Ghandi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I often see this statement made, and it is an exception to the rule. It did not work for:
6 million Jews murdered in Nazi concentration camps
2 million Roma and others murdered in the same camps
8 million Ukrainians starved to death for rising up against the USSR
20 million Russians and eastern Europeans sent to their death in the Gulags for being against Communism.
2 million Cambodians for being from urban centres liquidated by the Khmer Rouge
1 million Kurds and Marsh Arabs murdered by Sadam Hussein for being Kurds and Marsh Arabs
1 million Tsutsis hacked to death with machetes for not being Hutus
You think these are matters relegated to history? How long ago was the war in Kosovo? How many people lost their lives to “ethnic cleansing” in a country that only a few years earlier was host to the winter Olympics?
Civilization is a thin veneer, and Ghandi was a fluke.

Your article treads on thin ice. People are hypersensitive to comparisons like this, and they shouldn’t be. I don’t think the original author in any sense meant that he was *experiencing* actual Segregation, as much as that he was coming to a better understanding of what living on the wrong side of that kind of illogical bias and discrimination was like.
That said, I take a dim view of people using the “racism” label in situations where it doesn’t apply. Turning such a word into a generic takes away from the horror of it, and the people that suffer most from this are the people who are actually experiencing racial discrimination. That goes for people applying the “racist” term to others gratuitously, as well as those who use it to describe their particular non-racial discrimination situation.
Both racism and the treatment we skeptics experience *do* have the same roots, however — in hatred and intolerance. Sad, really, that a member of a group that rewrote history to gloss over their group’s enthusiastic participation in racial hatred would stoop to more hatred — sad, but entirely unsurprising. After all, there is truth to the Democratic Party statement that they were at the front of all of the Civil Rights battles — they *were* there, along with their State National Guard, water cannon, and dogs. Being on the wrong *side* of every battle is a minor detail they forget to mention, much like reams of contradictory data that refute their cause du jour.
Not news that unethical people are unethical. More amusing is the revelation that the first letters of one of their propaganda outlets, MS-NBC, stands for “Manure Spreader”-NBC.

I find it funny that people criticize Anthony for running the articles he chooses. The success of WUWT? clearly indicates that Anthony has a firm grasp on what should be posted here.

This was posted by Neil Craig over Bishop Hill but is worth repeating here.
Pastor Neimoller’s words clearly apply:
First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Great article !
The Climate Liars equate me with holocaust denial by calling me a Climate Denier. They’ll be calling me a denier when they throw me into a concentration camp. They won’t even see the irony of their actions.

If I recall my history, the next step should be the Climate Inquisition, in which the Climate Police (such as the Green Helmets of the EPA) under the Grand Inquisitor (such as Lisa Jackson or her successor) enforces an equivalent of the Alhambra Decree expelling the Skeptics from Western Civilization.

Thanks Pamela G for your comment.
BargHumer says:
“As climate sceptics you know the science is on your side, just as the black people knew that they were fully human and not lesser animals, and no better or worse than white people.”
My experience of working with oppressed people is that they often take on the beliefs of the oppressors (whether cultural or political) and really do believe they are inferior while talking up the hopeful idea they are not. Secret belief or worry is hidden by the outward bravado. Positive action (not stopping the oppression) is required to overcome this internalised oppression (as it is properly termed).
The process of labelling an identifiable group with epithets, often caricatures with a tiny grain of truth or an oft-told story people think is true is quite common. This characterisation and demonisation is followed by escalating the mob to violent hatred and eventual extermination is called ‘Othering’. The purpose of othering is to get the majority mob to believe the minor group is deviate, dirty, a public danger to thinking ‘right thoughts’ and so on. The Government of Iran is practising this systematically on all of their minority religious populations, in particular the largest with a view to getting the general population to believe they are not really humans deserving of rights in the normal sense of the word. They have, for example, expelled all of them from government jobs, cancelled their pensions, expelled from the universities so they cannot get educated, shut down their home-schooling systems, arrested their volunteer professors, jailed their leadership, firebombed their businesses and harrowed up their cemeteries with bulldozers while simultaneously running hate propaganda articles in the government-controlled press on a daily basis. Hitler famously did this and more recently so did the Rwandans (who were successful in getting the public to knowingly tolerate and participate) and many other fanatics before and since. Witnessed what happened to the ‘othered’ Amerindians and you get the picture. In some countries one only needs to call the others ‘heathens’ to pass a publicly enforceable group death sentence.
In climate ‘science’ othering tries to get you to believe that ‘denialists’ are not worthy of consideration, especially if they are ‘scientists’ who have somehow become apostates deviating from the true Cause and have been ‘possessed’ by the ‘devil of big corporate misguidance’ into denying the ‘true beliefs of the faithful’. The punishment is similar: expulsion from jobs, denial of funding, demonisation in the press, threats to life and limb, misrepresentation of motive and calls from the margin (tacitly approved by the center) for death to the misbelievers who are creating such an intolerable risk for the whole community. The real motive of is course power and money.
The religious parallel is complete for the reason that the argument in favour of AGW is prepared on that basis. It is para-religious movement with para-clerics who define ‘what the words mean’ in any way they wish, even in contradiction of themselves. That is the very definition of priestcraft. SkS and RC are ‘priestly enterprises’. The faithful are always reminded of the perils of listening to the voice of the devilish who are the ever-present and subtle dangers leading to perdition.
Sitting at root of this mess are the same old boring ideologues with their ‘religion of irreligion’ barking up the same old boring trees. It is interesting that the subtitle of these anti-corporate statements is a belief they are fighting fascism which is a blend of state and corporate entities so each fatwa is phrased on that basis. They are fanatically opposed in the political realm by some who want a different sort of religio-economic paradigm of equal strangeness. The middle ground where sanity prevails is disappearing. There is nearly no difference between the two: both want to control the state, both want to demonise the other, both use ‘othering’ as a tactic to generate hate, both result in catastrophe for the whole community. The far Right and their inveterate enemies on the far Left both use the ‘othering’ tactic, let us be clear about that. Polarisation is the name of the game and both poles are making disastrous moves as they race to the moral bottom. We need a new paradigm.

Can anyone here honestly claim to have ever been refused use of a water fountain? Refused use of a toilet? Told you had to use the rear entrance of a hotel? Told you had to sit at the back of the bus? Only because of your position on AGW? Have any of your relatives been lynched? Have you had people shoot at your house while your family were eating dinner? Have you ever been awakened in the night to people burning a cross in your yard?
These are all very real actions that Black Americans faced in the 20th century. The author of the article clearly is not well read on what “black citizen in the South during the height of Jim Crow laws” actually faced.
This belittles the true challenges faced by Black Americans in this country during the Jim Crow era.

Gene Doebley says:
November 25, 2012 at 10:07 am
“Yes, they call us names and denigrate our intelligence but I just don’t see the parallel to racism…”
Racism is just one expression of tribalism, the tendency to trust those that are like us and be willing to believe just about anything about “the others”. That it’s so deeply ingrained implies there were evolutionary advantages to fierce loyalty to one’s family, clan, or tribe.
The very worst of cynical politicians exploit this by demonizing “japs”, “huns”, “gooks”, serbs, “sand-n****rs”, whoever we are supposed to hate at the moment to further their agenda. Loyalty to the regime is in direct proportion to the contempt we feel for the perceived enemy; they are the two sides of the same coin. Importantly, it doesn’t matter which side you’re on when the appeal is to tribalism and not rational thought – defending your tribe trumps questions of who is right.
In my opinion, appealing to tribalistic instincts automatically puts one’s position in doubt and very likely makes it wrong. The success of WUWT is owed in large part to Anthony’s appeal to reason. Here he’s pointing out that the tactics employed by some abjure rational thought and rely on appeals to humanity’s baser instincts.

Jeremy says: (November 25, 2012 at 10:55 am )
“As in Germany, everyone’s freedom is slowly being whittled away and ultimately at stake here – not just “skeptics” – the skeptics are only those that have their eyes open the most and the great many who believe in catastrophic global warming are simply victims of state and U.N. sponsored propaganda.”
You’re absolutely right. The way things go at the moment, the grim agenda of the greens will only be questioned by the rest when it is too late. Unless their deceit gets exposed timely. But how? And by whom?

While I certainly wouldn’t say I’m offended by the comparison, I think the suppression of genetics in Russia circa 1940’s makes for a far better comparison. An obvious difference is that one can’t look at me and tell I’m a skeptic. I also can’t claim any discrimination in my field (Electrochemistry) even though I’m known to be skeptic; actually, most chemists, engineers, mathematicians, and biologists that I regularly work with are also skeptics (probably on the order of 97%). I suspect that unless you’re a climatologist, a meteorologist, or at least someone doing research/publishing in the field that you’ve probably not been touched by much discrimination aside from a few internet name calling incidents, perhaps a headache or two from constant eye rolling while taking you’re son/daughter to the local science museum, and the constant threat of high blood pressure arising from the frustration of charlatans who seem to always get away with saying anything (and omitting anything) to promote their pocket lining, control grabbing, economy busting agenda.
“The term “Lysenkoism” denote a very dangerous phenomenon: an effort to suppress and/or outlaw a field of research or opinions when they conflict with a dominant political agenda.”
http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/lysenkoism.shtml

Maybe not the best simile at the present time, but still apt. I do agree with Jeremy, however, that the rise of the NSDAP is a better analogy. Except that until 1934, the NSDAP got more bad press than AGW proponents ever have.
Never, ever forget the 10-10 video. It shows most accurately what is in the minds and hearts of AGW activists.

davidmhoffer includes in the list of victims of trait antagonism (call it “racism” or “class struggle” — no difference — the same animal instinct at work):
“20 million Russians and eastern Europeans sent to their death in the Gulags for being against Communism.”
To be precise, of the 20 million killed, very few were against communism or ever cared to know what it was. Calling somebody “anti-communist” or “the enemy of the people” or a “traitor” was the most expedient way of eliminating a competitor or somebody you didn’t like.

Anthony, Just to add, I’ve been reading WUWT for several years now. I’ve come to rely on it, and be heartened by it. I read your blog and understand that all is not lost. Sanity will prevail. I’m sorry for my harsh words above, but must stand by them nonetheless. I hope you’ll reconsider and acknowledge what in my view is a mistake that does the skeptical cause no favors.

pokerguy,
This is an article from a source that Anthony linked to for discussion. Have you completely missed the calls for scientific skeptics to be labeled mentally ill? Or for the rounding up of skeptics, for merely having a different scientific point of view? You don’t seem to understand where that kind of thinking will lead.
Segregation of blacks generally did not include calls for them to be locked up in psychiatric institutions. To me, the current attacks against skeptics is worse in some ways. History is repeating, and if you don’t understand that it is because you have not read enough history.

Not a comparison I would have chosen.
I agree with posters above who say that religious persecution is much more apt.

It’s funny how sensitive that people are about race, when the most vicious attacks ever were about what you did for a living, or does the starvation of the Kulaks (~42 million dead) in Russia during the Stalin era not count. Americans are way too sensitive about color, and readily forget that most genocide has nothing to do with color. For someone to get a small ah-ha moment is not to be disparaged. Real transparency leads to real communication. I’m glad he said what he felt, he should continue to learn and talk about it.
Maybe another spate of Ted Kazinsky type bombings would bring the whole thing into focus. Ted was already starting the eco-war. The thought police are just a declaration away in some countries – see how quickly it went in Egypt.
This site is as far as I can see, about communication. Let’s stop with the thought police.

While understanding the intent of the article it is a poor analogy as skin color is not a personal decision. The same criticism can be laid at the door of the ‘gay’ community claiming that discrimination against them is the same as that against ‘African Americans’ before the ‘civil rights’ movement. The end to segregation is all too fresh in the psyche of African Americans even slavery means far more to them than it does to citizens other countries.
However, Jeremy says: November 25, 2012 at 10:55 am has it right to compare it to the rise of National Socialism in Germany. After all we are being called ‘deniers’ and that is the same time period. Luminaries in the AGW camp like George Soros will understand that too as Jews looked just like everyone else and if they acted like everyone else and supported the political activities of the majority, they could and did avoid concentration camps and the holocaust.
However, there are two very important points that have been missed which should not be glossed over:
(1) Not an Opinion. The ‘deniers’ are saying that human activities were not responsible for all the warming that has taken place in the last hundred years. This is not a political point of view it is based on empirical science. If forecasts from several people posting here, Russian scientists and even NASA are to be believed we can expect cold or even quite severe cold in the next decade. This will not be something the politicians can hide as it is not an opinion when the cold comes and there are severe famines due to crop failures and the windfarms cannot provide power to heat homes. I think this is why there is a real rush to put in place laws and Global Governance before Gaia shows how hard life can be.
(2) What DO we believe in? We should all state outright that we believe the climate changes – in fact we believe it doesn’t need assistance from human activities to change, it has been changing all on its own in the same way for millennia. We also actually believe that the Earth has become warmer – there has been global warming – since the end of the Little Ice Age; but that it was warmer before then in the Medieval Warm Period. It is the ‘warmists’ and their political masters who are the climate change deniers, as they claim to not believe in natural climate change and the preceding naturally occurring warm and cold periods: they blame any change in climate on human activity so that they can tax it. We therefore believe that much of the false panic about climate catastrophe is intended to justify raising taxes and assumption of power and control over the population.
We must show what we DO believe as well as what we do not believe. Put the ‘denier’ label on the warmists where it belongs.

Rob Honeycutt says:
November 25, 2012 at 12:00 pm
….Have any of your relatives been lynched? Have you had people shoot at your house while your family were eating dinner?….
____________________________________
You have your head in the sand if you can not see the danger headed straight at us. (Anthony please take care)
My neighbor had his house shot-up and I have had incidences happen which I reported to the FBI.
So yes it is happening and it is ESCALATING! Just look at the FBI report I posted above.
Here are more
FBI accuses 3 environmentalists of bomb plot… Also “Last year, homemade bombs believed to be planted by followers of ELF failed to detonate at two government buildings in Auburn and at a house under construction. Ryan Daniel Lewis, 22, of Newcastle (Placer County), was arrested and pleaded guilty to two counts of attempted arson and one count of arson.”

Ecoterrorism: Extremism in the Animal Rights and Environmentalist Movements
During the past two decades, radical environmental and animal rights groups have claimed responsibility for hundreds of crimes and acts of terrorism, including arson, bombings, vandalism and harassment, causing more than $100 million in damage. While some activists have been captured, ecoterror cells – small and loosely affiliated – are extremely difficult to identify and most attacks remain unsolved.
…The Earth Liberation Front
By 2004, ALF’s environmental counterpart, the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), was setting new records for property damage. Modeled after ALF, ELF consists of “autonomous groups of people” who are “anonymous not only to the public but also to one another,” according to its Web site. The movement aims to “inflict economic damage on those profiting from the destruction and exploitation of the natural environment” …
The methods of Earth First! proved too moderate for some of its members…
…hundreds of crimes have been committed in the name of environmental protection nationwide. The most damaging occurred on August 1, 2003, when arsonists burned down a housing complex under construction in San Diego, destroying a five-story building and 100-foot-high crane; losses were estimated at $50 million…
…Car dealerships and sport utility vehicles are also common targets for ELF. On August 22, 2003, approximately 40 Hummers and SUVs were destroyed or damaged in a fire at a West Covina, California, dealership, causing about $2 million in damages….
Although no longer ELF’s official publicist, Rosebraugh remained influential in the movement and continued to give lectures and presentations at colleges and universities.
…Pickering underscored this ideological expansion: “Violence is a necessary element of an oppressive struggle…to overthrow an oppressive government…[ELF is] only part of a larger building revolutionary movement that won’t stop until it has a successful overthrow of this country.”
Ecoterror and Violence: Targeting Humans
…An anonymous e-mail claiming responsibility for the incident said that activists had used a 10-pound ammonium nitrate bomb “strapped with nails.” Although the building sustained minimal damage, the e-mail warned that “we will now be doubling the size of every device we make” and that “customers and their families are considered legitimate targets.”
We gave all the customers the chance, the choice, to withdraw their business from HLS,” the e-mail said. “Now you all will have to reap what you have sown….You never know when your house, your car even, might go boom….Or maybe it will be a shot in the dark.”

If the MSM whips up enough hate against ‘deniers’ do you doubt these eco-terrorists will not come after the ‘leaders’ and anyone else they identify? If they are willing to go after innocent people for buying products from a company they hate what do you think will happen when they turn on ‘deniers’? What will happen if and when the CAGW green movement goes belly-up and the power elite find another cash cow to milk abandoning solar power and windmills? The Deniers will become the scapegoats and if you had any brains you can see the set-up is already taking place.

Truthseeker says:
November 25, 2012 at 2:23 pm
davidmhoffer says:
November 25, 2012 at 10:56 am
——————————————————–
The best comment on the thread … by a long way.
_____________________________
I will second that and raise it to a request that Anthony post that comment at the top of the page where it deserves to be.

I listened to the ABC article and it was utterly disgusting. The kind of conniving skulduggery that you would expect in a private conspiracy in a pub. Prof L. is so obviously more likely a candidate for psychological examination than any of the deniers he wants to denigrate, it is as ironic as it is alarming. I admit to being at a loss as to why there should be such hate. What is the source of it? Is it the kind of psychological issue that Prof L is talking about (in reverse)…what irony?
I recently referred to some greenies as “evil” and was immediately admonished by my wife. I am now thinking that this was exactly the correct definition. Why are we afflicted by THIS evil?

This kind of marginalization of a group of people based on what beliefs they espouse is not unique to climate change skeptics and neither is the treatment they are receiving. Being a conservative, white, Christian and a climate skeptic, I draw fire from several different angles. It’s all designed to dehumanize the “other.” If you can dehumanize your opponent, you delegitimize everything they say and can readily dismiss it without having to think about it overmuch. The danger is that when you can dehumanize the other, you also open them to treatment as a subhuman entity whether this is by accident or design, and when that happens, we see the results in the Jim Crow South, Stalin’s Russia, Hitler’s Germany and other places where people have been and are subject to degraded treatment – the many countries of the Middle East are also a good object lesson.
The thing that worries me is that rhetoric has been ramping up over the past decade, and I’m afraid that it’s only a matter of time before words are followed by actions. Then this comparison, while it seems overblown and offensive to some now, may not be such an academic matter.

You can treat me like a second class citizen, but don’t expect me to behave like one!
Down with the tyranny of CAGW and the Green hate and spite that goes with it…

Although the parallel seems a long stretch think about this.
Not every white man wants to hang every black man he sees but, there are some and some have done just that.
Not every alarmist wants to explode every skeptic he sees but there are some…..
So what’s the next step.
I’ve seen the videos so I know terrorist style killings are in someones mind.
Hate = Hate
cn

Some of the commenters here really don’t get it. It doesn’t matter whether the analogy is racist based, religion based or whatever. It is about denigrating the other side to further the agenda. Tribalism is what it is all about and we all know where that goes.

I find the current situation to be reprehensible. As a (very) qualified environmental scientist/engineer, I have always tried to make my own assessment of the facts before making a decision. In this case, I remain unconvinced of the rhetoric and know for a fact that the models are wrong – after all none of them, not one, give the slightest hint of the current hiatus in temperature rise so they are clearly missing something important.
A key component of making one’s own assesment is not to be stampeded by the crowd and if necessary to stand apart.
My personal conversations with folks is that most “believers” do not even know the basic facts and are running with the herd because of the emotive nature of the topic. When I say folks, I should note that I spend my life working with environmental scientists and engineers and I am saddened to report that very few have made any effort to verify the facts for themselves. whether I am right or they are right, this cannot be a good thing.

The root of the problem is: climatic changes are for real – GLOBAL warming is 100% lie – BUT, the clever Warmist pined the name Climate Change Skeptics, to their opponents… opponents are proud of it === For the people on the street; anybody not believing in climatic changes, is a nutcase / needs a Shrink. Nobody can blame them, for thinking like that. Reason the Warmist are laughing all the way to the bank, with trillion dollars loot money.
Between not believing in phony GLOBAL warmings, and not believing in ”climatic changes” is light-years difference, but not for the Fake Skeptics… They ”believe” in the phony GLOBAL warmings; BUT are ‘skeptical” about the big / small, good / bad climatic changes – COULDN’T BE MORE BACK-TO FRONT, no matter how harder they try. In other words: as long as the Fakes are Warmist’ fig-leafs, covering up the Warmist’ shame, for lying that localized warmings (which are THE climatic changes) are presenting them as GLOBAL… the leading Warmist will be in charge of the media, politicians, finances; and keep destroying western democracies… who is more guilty?

Davidmhofer- you are an ignorant jerk. You don’t know beans about the holocaust so shut up!
Everything you said is dead wrong and an infamy.

I may have misspoken- Ian W. is the jerk here. not davidmhofer- sorry

Sean says:
November 25, 2012 at 9:32 am
Obviously, you do not teach at an American university or college. Sceptics get the same reception that Rush Limbaugh would get if he presented a lecture at Harvard on Sandra Fluke.
Also, it is important to give some thought to what our future might hold. Minorities developed valuable “coping” techniques under segregation. Reflecting on minorities’ history might help sceptics learn some important truths.

David Ball says:
November 25, 2012 at 11:06 am
“I find it funny that people criticize Anthony for running the articles he chooses. The success of WUWT? clearly indicates that Anthony has a firm grasp on what should be posted here.”
Amen! Anthony is the genius of serious blogs today. I too am amazed at the number of people eager to give him advice on how to do it.
Also, folks who are criticizing Anthony for the comparison to segregation are uniformly taking a cheap shot at Anthony. Surely, obviously, Anthony did not mean to suggest the situations of AGW sceptics today and minorities under segregation are comparable in difficulties experienced. Obviously. So, stop taking cheap shots.
My interpretation, which I suggest everyone take very seriously, is that we would do well to look at the history of segregation to give us some ideas about what we might very well face in coming years. Keep in mind that today if you own a small business that employs more than fifty “full time equivalents” then you are required by law to pay for their contraceptives and all the consequences of their misuse of their contraceptives.

I want to correct some false information here in the comments section. 20 million were not killed for being anti-Communist. They were killed because they (Kulaks) were the small farmers and peasants’ class that was resisting collectivization. Lenin backed off when they pushed. Stalin did not he eradicated them. Cannibalism was common during those times. Stalin was a potent sociopath and believed in the dictum, “no man – no problem.” The half Jews in Germany (mischlinge) were not slaughtered despite what hofer says. Herman Goring’s 2nd in the Luftwaffe was Milch and he was part Jewish and Goering said ” I decide who is a Jew or not.” The number of half jews who earned medals in WWII is shocking. The number of Jews who earned medals in world war 1 was also unprecedented (8% of the population earned 25% of the medals.Talk about the desperation involved in wanting to be seen as real Germans, It is a sad tribute to the terrible power of group-think. Indeed, Hitler’s Platoon first sergent was a Jew and he signed the application for an Iron Cross first class.

When will you learn that Carbon is produced by warming- basic physics. It doesn’t cause warming.
Basic myth.

My comment about the ‘new’ segregation article, is that it isn’t new. The tactics and goals have been used for years. It’s the old segregation with new victims. “Meet the new boss, he’s the same as the old boss.”–The Who

RE:
DavidG says:
November 25, 2012 at 6:10 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is a disgusting rewrite of history that serves no purpose. It should be stricken from the thread.

DavidG says:
November 25, 2012 at 5:11 pm
Davidmhofer- you are an ignorant jerk….
___________________________
To help set the record straight

Jewish Genealogy
…During the Holocaust, the Nazis killed people, burned synagogues and wiped out towns, but they did not destroy records. Quite the contrary, they carefully preserved synagogue records of births, deaths and marriages back to the 1840s… so they could identify Jews for extermination. See this puzzling stamp, dated November 30, 1940, on my great-grandfather’s 1878 Vienna Jewish birth record: Annahme des Zusatznamens Israel-Sara angezeigt (assume of the other names that Jew-Jewess is indicated). What is the meaning of this cryptic message? It is a reminder to those inspecting the records that they should assume everyone mentioned on the page is Jewish — not just the parents and children, but also the rabbi, mohel, midwife, witnesses, and so forth. Many of these European records, diligently preserved by the Nazis, are indexed by JewishGen or are available from the Family History Library of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons). Both of these resources are discussed below….

Seems Davidmhofer was correct.

Legatus says:
November 25, 2012 at 7:45 pm
“The important part of this article is it has started.
This won’t end well…”
===============
Are you referring to this thread or the world in general ?
Not that I discount your theory, but is there any chance it wouldn’t “won’t end well”,
cus it gives me reason to get out of bed in the morning.

My first impression was not that being a “person of color” in the days of Jim Crow was a problem comparable with being a climate skeptic these days, but that the FEELING of being treated as inferior (or worse) for something you cannot deny (or could, but will not deny) had some similarity. I was surprised that so many found fault with the simple voicing of the complaint, especially since the complaint was actually an admission of an “aha” moment, similar to walking a mile in another’s shoes.
As a Baby Boomer, I spent my junior high and high school years ever aware of the admonition to “do your own thing”. It seemed that you were only worthy of being looked up to if you wore some badge of individuality or creativity on your sleeve, so to speak. Contrarily, if you were conventional enough to be in ROTC or that sort of thing, people tended to snicker at you behind your back.
The pendulum has certainly swung back the other way, hasn’t it? These days, there is so much pressure to CONFORM to the CAGW meme, in thought as well as deed, that if you have the unmitigated gall to voice a contrary opinion, or even wonder aloud whatever happened to the Medieval Warm Period, say, in certain circles, then you experience something somewhat akin to what happens to chum when thrown to the sharks. Your parentage is questioned. Your motivation is questioned or maligned. Your opportunities might well be limited in the future. Your integrity is smeared. Your professional opinions are evermore denigrated. You might even be fired.
The lack of common sense and lack of good will that keeps cropping up these days keeps me wondering if this is what it was like to live the days of the Salem witch trials, in 1692-1693, in the depths of the Little Ice Age. They say that ergot caused people to have hallucinations. (On another site today, there is a link to this article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-20/u-k-winter-wheat-shows-worst-fungus-symptoms-ever-recorded-1-.html about how bad the fungal diseases are in the current crop of UK grain.)
These days, everyone seems to be in the mood to “shoot first and ask questions later.” And I mean that literally. But I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: It seems to me that the PTB are actually promoting a “Let’s you and him fight” situation.

Anthony: I am a “comment” addict in that I read and comment in the WSJ quite often. I find that I often learn much more from the comments on an article than from the article. That certainly has been the case in this comment section. There has been a wide variety of comments which present many different thoughts, arguments for and against. A thinking mans meat. Thanks for posting the original article.

I wish Americans would get off their racial guilt trip. Enough is enough already.
Some of my ancestors were slaves, white slaves in Russia. Nobody gives a damn? All right, then I don’t give a damn about your precious racial sensitivities. And never forget, who actually sold those African slaves in the first place (and have been trading them for centuries on their West African Islamic bazaars before any pale-skinned buyers arrived)? Black African slave masters.
So, maybe skin color really doesn’t matter? Maybe slavery and persecution do? Then how the environmentalist persecution is better than the racial segregation?

All I would have to do is abandon all the science I was ever taught
That is exactly how I feel. I don’t want to be a sceptic. I really don’t like motorcars nor petrol heads. I’d prefer if everyone walked and cycled more.
But climate alarmism is completely anti-science and it would be dishonest to promote climate alarmism.
… I’ve completely gone off green things when I watch the moronic idiotic vitriolic nasty vindictive insane inane of the green nutters (some even daring to call themselves “scientists”). It doesn’t make me proud to ride a bike knowing that there are people whose behaviour is no better than racists promoting bike use.

Stephen Brown wrote:
“I dread the coming of the Carbon Inquisition. I am doomed.”
You’re not doomed. Just shoot the first carbon inquisitor you see. I’ll do the same.

davidmhoffer says:
November 25, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Ian W;
Jews looked just like everyone else and if they acted like everyone else and supported the political activities of the majority, they could and did avoid concentration camps and the holocaust.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is a blatant lie and an egregious anti-Semitic statement. If by intent then it is one of the most racist remarks ever made in this forum. If by ignorance, then allow me to set the record straight:
I am sorry if I have upset you it was not anti-semitic and it was not by intent. Perhaps I am misinformed but read:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/29937
I would be interested if you can correct that article and many similar.

u.k.(us) says:
Legatus says:
“The important part of this article is it has started.
This won’t end well…”
===============
Are you referring to this thread or the world in general ?
Not that I discount your theory, but is there any chance it wouldn’t “won’t end well”,
cus it gives me reason to get out of bed in the morning.
================================
Neither, I am referring to the start of the pogram against the “sceptics”, usually called “denialists”. This sort of thing has happend many times in the past, and it never ended well. If you want a reason to get out of bed in the morning, I suggest it be that you intend to make it end well. You can only do that by making sure it ends now, before it gets too far advanced.

hofer, you show your ignorance. I don’t rewrite history, but know enough to do it if I wish to. It’;s just that your ignorance has left you in the dark. I can prove every word I said, and you can’t.
REPLY: Here is a suggestion; if you want to complain about someone else’s ignorance, at least learn to spell and capitalize their name correctly. – Anthony

Anthony, I know how to spell and I did leave the caps out on purpose. Just the same way he deleted my comment and went on to accuse me of rewriting history, which is a foul accusation.. I don’t criticize people for mistakes made in haste. Your comment is misguided. My words are about content not grammar.
This isn’t school and i don’t jump on you or anyone when you or others do that, even David M. Hofer!
REPLY: Hoffer, two “f’s”. Feel free to be as upset as you wish – Anthony

As to this David M. Hofer, who has the nerve to challenge free speech and demand the striking of my factual remarks. What a disgraceful approach and what hypocrisy. If you want to challenge my words, show them in your post unedited so others can judge your competence or incompetence in talking about history. Your approach is as cowardly as those you accuse of such behavior.
[That’s enough. Move on. — mod.]

I do not want the mods recommending to Anthony to shut this thread down, so I request some of the more intensively pronounced antagonists to chill slightly. OK?
I do not want it shut down because I think the ideas discussed on this thread are contributing to an important understanding of the roots of intolerance; even of intolerance of discussing the very sensitive topics introduced by Jim Thompson’s article.
John

In all forms of faith-based politics, repenting will get you back into the good graces of those powers which are, with a suspicious eye of the inquisition remaining on your for the rest of your mortal existence, of course.

Legatus says:
November 26, 2012 at 10:35 am
And how did that treatment start, did it suddenly spring into existence full bloomed, or did it gradually gain steam?
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If you’re talking about the Jim Crow times, I’d say it was segment of the timeline from full-on slavery, through the civil war and emancipation then on into the twentieth century and from there extending into the present day.
The worst segment, by far, was the full-on slavery time . . . the best segment (in racial equality terms) was the election of Barack Obama to the presidency. Other milestones would be the integration of the armed forces, the integration of baseball, the freedom marches, any number of spots.
Even a cursory glance will tell you that the situation has been on the improve for the entire time. So, to answer your question, I’d say it’s been losing steam.
But, for all that, being black in the south of the 1940s, the time indicated by the illustration accompanying the article, was a far worse situation for those living it than being sceptical of AGW is for those of us in that situation today.
The comparison is so far-fetched as to be ludicrous. Sceptics houses aren’t being burned down, their children aren’t being sent to separate, poorly funded schools, nobody’s been lynched.
This strikes me as a fairly even battle, with the warmists taking more and more hits every month, every week, every day. They aren’t in full retreat yet but they’re definitely knocked about and nowhere near as triumphant as they were pre-Copenhagen.
If you want to finish them off, stick to the science. That’s where this war will be won. To go sidetracking into name-calling contests is demeaning to the sceptics’ side.
One worthwhile thing this thread has done, though . . . it’s flushed out a few ranters and bee-in-the-bonnetters. In that, it’s a reminder that not all the people who can’t keep things in perspective are on the other side.

Power Grab says:
November 25, 2012 at 9:24 pm
…It seems to me that the PTB are actually promoting a “Let’s you and him fight” situation.
_________________________________________
That is certainly the case. If the ‘Left’ and the ‘Right’ are at eachother’s throat they do not notice the PTB walking away with the clothes off their bags.
Just look at the UK, there are 27,000 extra deaths in the UK each winter and 70% of households have trouble with heating bills. Yet the government and population keep marching towards the cliff. It must be the fungus in the wheat.

As the original post on this thread is about the Jim Crow era of America’s south, another piece of history of that era may be pertinent.
When Branch Rickey broke baseball’s colour bar, he knew he had to have the right man to pull it off. He didn’t go looking for the best black ball player . . . he went looking for a good black ball player who could take the heat. Jackie Robinson was that man . . . chosen because he was best able to handle the hatred and vituperation that would erupt with his entry into the major leagues. Rickey knew that for desegregation to succeed, the standard bearer had to turn the other cheek and keep his emotions in check. Any retaliation and the whole project would be in jeopardy and not only would Robinson suffer but also all the black players in line to follow him.
Robinson succeeded brilliantly. He kept his head down, let his skills do the talking and within a few years baseball was integrated.
That’s the way to success.
Not this ridiculous Jim Thompson way . . . getting called nasty names a few times by cranky warmists and responding with name-calling of his own, trumped by the most inflated piece of victimhood it’s hard to imagine.
How about a sense of proportion and how about a sense of simply, as Jackie Robinson showed, doing the right thing.

Graphite says:
November 27, 2012 at 1:02 am
Exactly what is foolish about that?
Everything.
Compare the amount of financing, subsidies, and profits. Look at the balance of power. Compare the representation in societies, media, schools, colleges, academic institutions. Facts don’t matter, “skeptics” are practically invisible, a laughing stock, scapegoats, fringe. Green Fascism is an ideology, it’s politics, it’s the new religion, it’s all over education, it’s all over social institutions, it’s in every workplace and in your face in every public place, CEOs of big corporations gave up all resistance and kiss its behind. Say something against it, and you are fired, your neighbors stop talking to you, they vandalize your lawn and your car, your former friends stop calling you, your children report on your heresy to their teachers. Attempt to tell the truth, and you are a pariah, an outcast, a sociopath, a mental case, ein Untermensch. Welcome to the real world!
You’ve said something about a “fairly even battle”?
And you pompously call that raspberry an “analysis”?

Bruce Cobb says:
November 27, 2012 at 4:36 am
This is a street fight, and skeptics are both outnumbered and out-gunned. That means fighting dirty . . .
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Whoa! Stop right there. It means nothing of the sort.

P.S. As to my friends, Graphite, none of them is a green activist. It is true, however, that I refuse to conform to some other morally unacceptable views, not necessarily AGW-related, and that may have prevented me from being friends with some people. So what? Life is short, the number of scoundrels is legion.

davidmhoffer says:
November 26, 2012 at 7:46 am
Just to put the record straight if anyone is still reading this.
My Godfather was a Dutch Jew a dentist from den Haag. My father had stayed with his family, wife and three sons in the late 1930’s. I still have photographs of the three boys on my fathers motorcycle and on their bikes tall blond and happy. My Godfather’s wife and sons were all captured by the Germans and he never saw them again. My Godfather was in hiding and even after the war would not reveal where he successfully hid as he was concerned that he may have to hide again. I therefore, would not try to minimize the horror of what occurred I am personally aware of it: as much as someone born just after the war can be.
The point I was trying to make (albeit clumsily) was that an African is totally unable to attempt hide his race by carrying false papers.
Interesting how quickly I was ‘othered’ – shows how easily such things can be achieved.

Alexander Feht says:
November 27, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Graphite,
Let me guess. You are a taxpayer-funded “educator,” aren’t you?
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And with that comment, you are a “labeller” . . . the sort who wants everyone classified by occupation, or race, or income level, or religion, or political leanings — or maybe all five and a few more.
It’s the sort of mindset that eventually leads to someone sitting in front of a committee and being asked a question that starts, “Are you now or have you ever been a member of . . .”
What does it matter to you or anyone else what my occupation is? If you have to know, I’ve made my living over the past two to three decades in horse racing and publishing, both fields of endeavour that are, in competitive terms, red in tooth and claw.
My next door neighbour is a school teacher, though. He’s in the state sector. And he’s a good bloke, too. I’ve had many a friendly conversation with him. Perhaps I’ve been tainted.

Graphite says:
November 28, 2012 at 2:39 pm
It’s the sort of mindset that eventually leads to someone sitting in front of a committee and being asked a question that starts, “Are you now or have you ever been a member of . . .”
I stood before such committees back in the Soviet Union. You haven’t. And I smell a reek of this very mindset coming from you. I imagine, what kind of trash you publish.