Emails reveal Al Gore and crew won’t take ‘no’ for an answer when seeking imagery to spin for their ‘dirty weather’ project

People send me stuff.

Readers may recall this story: Al Gore denied film footage rights by an Australian filmmaker where Mr. Gore sought the broadcast rights to a “fire tornado” footage shot during a wildfire near Alice Springs Australia for use in his upcoming “dirty weather report” aka 24 hours of Tabloid Climatology™.

The Australian wrote about how the filmmaker said ‘no’ then:

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Al Gore denied firestorm footage | The Australian

A WEATHER expert has backed the stance of an Alice Springs filmmaker who refused to sell footage of a firestorm to former US vice-president Al Gore — to use in Mr Gore’s climate presentations — because the event was unrelated to climate change.

In an email exchange with Mr Gore’s office, Tangey said using the footage in a climate-change framework would be ‘deliberately deceptive’

“I am aware that you may have missed the reporting on the very localised nature of this firestorm,” Tangey wrote. “However, in any case, I am confused as to why you would offer to buy a licence to use it at all unless you had conducted even elementary research which might indicate that this Mt Conner event had direct linkage to global warming/climate change.”

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Here below is a sample of the video shot by Tangey that Gore wants to use. One could safely bet that it would be used in the unsupportable context of “wildfires and tornadoes are getting worse due to climate change” and what could be more terrifying that tornadoes of fire  to people that don’t know about the mechanisms of their formation and how they aren’t like the tornadoes from cumulonimbus supercell storms or that they’ve been around since time immemorial in wildfires?

After seeing it, I can understand why Gore wanted it, and why the filmmaker denied him the right to use it.

Now unbelievably, after being told in no uncertain terms that the use of this video in the context of Gore’s “dirty weather report“, won’t be licensed to his effort, Gore’s production team is trying again to get this broadcast rights to this video in a “back door” sort of way. Here’s the most recent email exchange:

===============================================================

On 07/11/2012, at 1:04 PM, Andrea Smith wrote:

Hi Chris!
Wasn’t sure if this is the same Chris who shot the fire tornado? But I was curious if Alice Springs Television still controlled the rights to the footage?
I’m a producer working on some documentary pieces for a nonprofit organization doing an internet broadcast, and was wondering how much it would
be to license some of the footage?
Thank you so much for your help and time!

Best wishes,
Andrea L. Smith
Producer/The Climate Reality Project
[email redacted]
[telephone numbers redacted]

+++++++++++++++++++

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 4:28 AM, chris tangey [email redacted] wrote:

Andrea,

I mean no disrespect, but I have to say that at best your organisation has some serious internal communication problems.

At worst, Mr. Gore is now requesting these images “through the back door”, and I note in your email that you completely omit mentioning Mr. Gore or the specific intentions you have for its usage.

As I’m sure you are aware I have previously refused a request for this footage from your Founder and Chairman on the grounds that there is no evidence to support your proposed usage.

That is, that this intense, but incredibly localised, event has any relationship whatsoever to climate change/global warming. In fact from the expert advice I have received, I believe the evidence is to the contrary.

I am happy to be proved wrong, but that appears highly unlikely.

In any case, even if “the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing” in Mr. Gore’s organisation, I again have to ask the question; Why would you request this footage

if you do not have firm evidence to prove that this particular event was caused by, or was in any way attributable to, global or even regional climate change?

If a project is bold enough to call itself “Climate Reality, ” then I would reasonably expect a great deal of fact and reality attached to it.

I believe viewers all over the world would expect the same. If I tune into your special event “24 hours of reality” on November 14 and 15, how will I know which event you present is really factual and directly attributable, and which is not?

Dare I say, what will be truth and what won’t be? How will anyone watching know? Especially, how will the 4,000 activists around the world your project has trained to “educate and inspire others” know?

Are all your requests for visual material to support climate change presentations made without any prior requirement for supporting evidence?

I must say that this continuing episode has adversely affected my view of those promoting anthropological climate change , and I now view any programs about it with a more sceptical eye.

So, yet again, I cannot in all conscience accept your offer, for any amount.

Sincerely

Chris Tangey

++++++++++++++

On 08/11/2012, at 4:05 AM, Andrea Smith wrote:

Chris,

First of all, I in no way meant to disrespect or offend you. I am an independent, freelance producer, and I don’t think anyone is trying to acquire the footage through “the back door.” I can assure you that the Climate Reality people have been very very tough on us as far as what stories we are able to cover. For instance, I have produced a piece on climate change and coffee in Colombia with scientists from CIAT, so it is very grounded in science, and both fascinating and terrifying as to what is happening all over this planet.

The program this year is to discuss “Dirty Weather” and “Extremes” of weather. It’s an open point for discussion for the scientists and panelists that will be participating. It’s to invite conversation and discussion. As a freelance producer I had no idea when I started this project that the US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement – every other country in the world has accepted this as a fact and is moving forward to do something about it. From what I understand, Australia has implemented a very innovative carbon tax and has a number of other programs in place in many of their cities. I’m somewhat embarrassed I live in a country where we so greedily use up so much of the earth’s resources and seem immune to it.

Anyway, it’s an incredible piece of footage and fantastic you captured it. I have been lucky enough to have the opportunity to visit your country twice for extended periods of time, including Alice Springs. I can easily say Australia is one of my favorite places in the world. Again, no offense meant, and none taken. I hope you do have the opportunity to watch part of the programming and that you find merit in it.

Very best wishes,

Andrea L. Smith

+++++++++++++++++++

Begin forwarded message:

From: chris tangey

Date: 8 November 2012 11:25:39 AM ACST

To: Andrea Smith

Subject: Re: Firenado footage

Andrea,

Thanks for your response, I’m sure from your comments below that you are personally committed to the cause of anthropological climate change, but as copyright owner my primary concern is that any usage of this material should be scientifically valid and in context. I find that your response hasn’t addressed my specific questions on whether it would be scientifically appropriate to use it in an extreme weather context .

As has been widely reported, it was such a highly localised event it was most likely caused by the fire itself, let alone any external “weather” and certainly not anything on a climatic scale.

The cattle station owners (who have been on that property for 55 years) have indicated that is their firm belief, and that in fact its heat and severity was caused by the fact that they have deliberately protected that patch of resin-filled spinifex grass for over half a century, allowing that resin to build up over time. Spinifex (Triodia) is highly flammable and creates intense heat in any case.

Joel Lisonbee, Manager of the Northern Territory Climate Services Centre, was quoted as saying he also saw no connection between this event and climate change/global warming.

“This event was better described as a dust devil within a fire. Most of us have seen dust devils and know they are not uncommon,” Mr Lisonbee said:

“You need hot, dry conditions but you get those in desert-like conditions everywhere, regardless of global warming.”

I know that we could just “agree to disagree” but I feel I must raise some real concerns to your response. Firstly your title indicates your are employed at the highest level of the Climate Reality Project, a Producer, freelancer or not, so I am confused as to why you refer to “the Climate Reality people” in the third person. Assuming for a moment that these people are separate to yourself you go on to say that they “have been very very tough on us as far as what stories we are able to cover”. So clearly this indicates they must have approved not just your enquiry about the footage, but the next stage of actually offering to buy it.

Since Mr. Gore’s office first contacted me to buy the rights, which indicated Mr. Gore himself had made the request to purchase, I have had cause to conduct considerable research on climate change.

In the course of this research I have discovered a lot of non-scientific, apparently agenda-driven name-calling going on, including your below “Climate Denier” tag.

Apparently “climate deniers” are people with a different viewpoint to yours, so are fair game to be labelled , put in a box and publicly pilloried. I would have though the correct scientific response would be to simply convince them of your argument. I think few people have doubt that the climate is changing, the questions are to what extent and whether it is human-induced. I am happy to be convinced, but by simply labelling questioners who need more information “climate deniers” might be colorful politics, but would seem a doomed approach to science education.

Now, the doubts that I mention don’t appear from thin air, but have actually been introduced by your own “team” so to speak , so it would appear a bit rich to be blaming others, let alone calling them childish names for them now having doubts:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/9192494/Climate-scientists-are-losing-the-public-debate-on-global-warming.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/globalwarming/6636563/University-of-East-Anglia-emails-the-most-contentious-quotes.html

Much more relevant to me is that my research has shown that your own Founder and Chairman has had his own share of controversy:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7849441/Michael-Mann-says-hockey-stick-should-not-have-become-climate-change-icon.html

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/69679-judge-al-gores-nine-incovenient-truths

I have even found a quote from Mr. Gore saying that “the science is settled”. As far as I know true operational science is never settled, it is always open to additional data that may later arrive at a new conclusion.

You say the context of using my footage on this global media event would merely be as “an open point for discussion for the scientists and panelists that will be participating” and to “invite conversation and discussion.”

If there is going to be an “open discussion”, then I presume there will be Scientists with opposing opinions, if not, how will it be “open”?

I’m sorry, but this seems to me both disingenuous and illogical and echoes Mr. Gore’s original request to simply use it in “presentations” on “environmental topics”. In barely the space of a month 2 major Al Gore organisations, Climate Reality Project and Carthage Group have asked to buy this footage. Given the very reason for the existence of these organisations is to promote anthropological climate change,

I am to believe that the purpose is actually NOT to sell viewers on climate change? Then sorry… why do you wish to buy it?

For your information I am no stranger to either science or extreme, wind-related weather events. For instance, I was Associate Producer, Head of Research and Co-Writer on the 1 hour long, 2001 National Geographic Channel (U.S.) documentary “Red Storm” which dealt with dust storms and the relevant science globally.

It seems to me I am the type of person you are making this program for, those of us yet to be convinced, but after the experience of the last month or so I’m afraid I am left less convinced than ever.

Cheers

Chris

===============================================================

Mr. Gore’s team is apparently trying to make a common phenomenon known as a fire whirl look like it is somehow. Wikipedia has this to say about it (sans any mention of climate change or global warming):

A fire whirl with flames in the vortex – click to view at Wikipedia

A fire whirl, colloquially fire devil or fire tornado, is a phenomenon—rarely captured on camera—in which a fire, under certain conditions (depending on air temperature and currents), acquires a vertical vorticity and forms a whirl, or a tornado-like vertically oriented rotating column of air. Fire whirls may be whirlwinds separated from the flames, either within the burn area or outside it, or a vortex of flame, itself.

An extreme example is the 1923 Great Kantō earthquake in Japan which ignited a large city-sized firestorm and produced a gigantic fire whirl that killed 38,000 in fifteen minutes in the Hifukusho-Ato region of Tokyo.[1] Another example is the numerous large fire whirls (some tornadic) that developed after lightning struck an oil storage facility near San Luis Obispo, California on April 7, 1926, several of which produced significant structural damage well away from the fire, killing two. Thousands of whirlwinds were produced by the four-day-long firestorm coincident with conditions that produced severe thunderstorms, in which the larger fire whirls carried debris 5 kilometers away.[2]

Most of the largest fire tornados are spawned from wildfires. They form when a warm updraft and convergence from the wildfire are present.[3] They are usually 10-50 meters tall, a few meters wide, and last only a few minutes. However, some can be more than a kilometer tall, contain winds over 160 km/h, and persist for more than 20 minutes.[4]

Fire whirls can uproot trees up to 15 metres (49 ft) tall.[5] These can also aid the ‘spotting’ ability of wildfires to propagate and start new fires.

Visually impressive fire whirls may be encountered during dry wind gusts at the annual Burning Man festival in Nevada’s Black Rock Desert, late on Saturday or Sunday evening during the burning of The Man or Temple, respectively.

Maybe Gore’s team will use footage from “burning man” to tell us all how fire tornadoes are more common now due to Tabloid Climatology™

Those who seek to link ‘extreme weather’ to climate should heed this strong editorial for the world’s largest and most prestigious scientific journal, Nature:

Nature editorial dashes alarmist hopes of linking extreme weather events to global warming

From Nature: Extreme weather

Better models are needed before exceptional events can be reliably linked to global warming.

=========================================

PROGRAMMING NOTE:

Be sure to see the debut of WUWT-TV countering Gore’s 24 hours of Tabloid Climatology starting at 8PM EST (5PMPST) on November 14th. Details here:

Announcement: WUWT-TV to counter Al Gore’s ’24 Hours of Climate Reality’ with live webcast

 

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125 Responses to Emails reveal Al Gore and crew won’t take ‘no’ for an answer when seeking imagery to spin for their ‘dirty weather’ project

  1. Otter says:

    Permission to repost!

    I’ve had people on the site I post to, explain to me what a HERO algor is.

    REPLY: Sure go ahead, Anthony

  2. Glenn A. Plant says:

    It seems their efforts are convincing people… to abandon CAGW.

    Glenn

  3. Go Home says:

    I can appreciate Chris’s integrity of not taking Gores money to present another lie to the world. But personally, I wish he would take the money and give them license to lie. Would be good fodder for the rest of us to once again ridicule Al Gore, the man with no conscience. I say let him step in it.

  4. dogald says:

    Mr.Gore and his associates are so thick the letters from Mr. Tangey will flow off their backs like water of a duck. While there is money to be made they will continue in the same vain.

  5. saneromeo says:

    I would also like permission to reblog this..

    REPLY: Sure, go ahead – Anthony

  6. saneromeo says:

    Reblogged this on saneromeo and commented:
    The Left’s deffinition of science is something you can’t understand, but something Al Gore can…Go figure.

  7. jrwakefield says:

    Seems clear enough from this that the more these alarmists press their extremism, the more people are believing it less. Good sign.

  8. Ian L. McQueen says:

    Mr. Tangey has done a good job of pointing out the error in Andrea Smith’s mistaken belief about “deniers”. But, is there any chance that we can be provided with an e-dress for her with which we can add further comments (polite ones!)?

    IanM

  9. Peter Miller says:

    Clearly, Al Gore wanted to use part of this clip as a warning of just what the future of global warming will look like. Undoubtedly, it would have impressed the poo out of his lumpen proletariat alarmist following.

    Sadly for him, there are still some principled people around who do not want their belongings morphed into being part of some serial liar’s tacky promo.

  10. Robert in Calgary says:

    Nice responses by Chris.

    The icing for Andrea’s brain would have been including links for Gore’s ocean view mansion purchase in early 2010.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/05/03/stunning-pictures-al-gores-new-9-million-mansion-media-totally-ignore

    http://directorblue.blogspot.ca/2010/05/exclusive-estimate-carbon-footprint-of.html

  11. Ric Werme says:

    I bet Andrea Smith wasn’t expecting her 15 minutes of fame to happen before her project airs!

    Kudos to Chris Tangey for taking his stand. I’m glad the time he spent writing one person is being read by many.

  12. Alvin says:

    What some people may be missing, as an example of what happened Tuesday, it that you only need to convince a small minority of very motivated people (the press, NEWS, politicians) to get a large amount of people to follow them or to give up defending the truth. Twelve million people simply stopped voting from 2008 to 2012. I knew something was up the weeks before the election as a facebook poster came to my counties’ GOP page and inquired if the Republican party was finally going to face “facts” about global warming and work with Obama to create saving legislation. This was before Sandy and long before the final public polls were out. The left were setting their agenda. They were using Obama’s internal polling.

  13. bikermailman says:

    I’m most impressed by Mr. Tangey’s responses. I could (as always) be wrong, but he appears to be in Andrew Breitbart and Anthony Watts territory. Intelligent, fearless, and willing to jump into the fray any time, any where, in order to battle a**hattery. This evening, I’ll raise a glass to Mr. Tangey when I do so to the men and women of our military.

  14. theduke says:

    Nice to see this kind of integrity in the climate “science” world, and I use the word “science” loosely.

    Yours truly,

    a member of the active Climate Denier Movement.

  15. Duke C. says:

    It seems likely that Ms. Smith conferred with Gore before responding on Nov. 8 2012. No doubt she was on the receiving end of a verbal tirade regarding U.S. based Climate Deniers (interesting that “Climate Deniers” is capitalized) from Gore. Did he actually dictate the response, I wonder?

  16. Jimbo says:

    Seeing as old Al wants to link global warming with wild fires how about linking to the research?

    Future wildfire in circumboreal forests in relation to global warming
    Abstract. Despite increasing temperatures since the end of the Little Ice Age (ca. 1850), wildfire frequency has decreased as shown in many field studies from North America and Europe……
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.2307/3237261/abstract

    From what I can gather wildfires have been a part of the Australian landscape before anyone set foot there and that some flora like eucalypt forests are dependent on fires for their regeneration cycle. Gore has to show me that the trend is worsening and I would need at least 60 years of data.

  17. Jimbo says:

    Furthermore, Gore has to strip out human caused fires like arson and camp fires. I want to see the fires caused by co2 and a ‘warming’ planet.

  18. John Eggert says:

    Something occurred to me today. Global warming has provided an excellent cover for political incompetence. The mayor of New York is able given a pass because a news outlet, bearing a remarkable resemblance to his name, blamed the catastrophe that was Sandy on global warming . . . and called me stupid. The environmental lobby gets a pass on stopping the removal of the branches that took out so much of the electrical grid. Chris Christy gets a pass on allowing the Jersey Shore to be storm vulnerable. No wonder the political class loves global warming. It allows them to abdicate their responsibilities. They get a pass because the media allow terms like “frankenstorm” and “biggest ever” to go unchallenged. Perhaps it is time we started demanding answers from our politicians as to how these things can happen. If global warming is real, it isn’t like it is a new thing. Al Gore and Jim Hansen have been crying wolf since 1988. Why the hell have these things been allowed to happen, global warming or not? Why are we spending money on Solyndra while the subways of New York remain vulnerable to a storm surge? etc. etc. And I’ll stop ranting now.

  19. David Ball says:

    You can literally hear Andrea Smith’s mind slam shut upon opening Chris’ letter.

  20. David Ball says:

    Correction; Shut tighter.

  21. Louis Hooffstetter says:

    Go Chris!!

    Producer Andrea says:
    “I have produced a piece on climate change and coffee in Colombia with scientists from CIAT, so it is very grounded in science, and both fascinating and terrifying as to what is happening all over this planet.”

    From the New York (fishwrapper) Times says it’s too hot:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/science/earth/10coffee.html?pagewanted=all

    Nasa says it’s from too much rain:
    http://disc.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/featured-items/climate_reduce_world_coffee

    Computer models predict extinctions due to ‘deleterious effects of climate change': http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/coffee-extinction_n_2104187.html

    This is all blatant bullshit. Both coffee production and consumption worldwide have gone through the roof over the last four decades:
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/214089-scarcity-vs-starbucks-going-cuckoo-for-coffee
    http://www.scaa.org/chronicle/2011/10/14/analyzing-the-world-coffee-market/

    If coffee disappears in the wild, it will only be because the areas where it grows will be converted to produce domesticated coffee.

  22. Skeptic says:

    Go Home suggests “…I wish he would take the money and give them license to lie. Would be good fodder for the rest of us to once again ridicule Al Gore, the man with no conscience. I say let him step in it.” Unfortunately this will have the opposite effect. Gore’s audience are impressionable school children and those who watch “The Simpsons”, “The Price is Right” and “All my Children”.
    Showing this sort of phenomena in the wrong context just sets the table for Obama, Chu and Jackson to introduce all their insane regulations that will destroy the economy and the country.

  23. oldseadog says:

    I am surprised that Andrea Smith thinks that USA is the only country in the world with an “active Climate Denier” movement.
    She needs to get out more – or at least read more – or even just start to think for herself.

  24. Pamela Gray says:

    My suggestion to dear ol’ Al. Photo shop it. However, remember to take the mammaries and hollywood eyes out of the engineered picture. On the other hand, I would encourage the use of retaining the ghost of religious symbols (if the “fire storm” picture’s origin is of a relic instead of a starlit). It would serve to enourage your base. Remember your globe of hurricanes? Bottom line, there is absolutely no reason not to manufacture your dat…picture. I’m sure you have talented team members schooled in such things. In fact I hear Man…someone on your side may be looking for a job. Do remind your expert however to make sure the whirl is turning in the proper direction for the SH and that any kind of measurement related to fire whirl rings needs to include “the trick”. Just sayin.

  25. Sundance says:

    “From what I understand, Australia has implemented a very innovative carbon tax and has a number of other programs in place in many of their cities. I’m somewhat embarrassed I live in a country where we so greedily use up so much of the earth’s resources and seem immune to it.”

    What I find disturbing is that this woman has no idea that the USA is actually lowering CO2 emissions faster than Australia or that the USA has been extremely conservative in using a vast wealth of energy that it posesses and yet she is quick to proclaim that she is embarrassed to be part of our country. Andrea I invite you to go to a country where you will not be embarrassed because those of us that look at the science are embarrassed by you and Al Gore for being dishonest climate trolls and propagandists who misuse science for political ideology. You pretty much sum up the anti-science mentality behind this project and the intent to push more self-loathing and guilt upon the gullible who lack the scientific capabilities to see through such propaganda. It must be terribly frustrating for you and Al Gore to encounter people like Chris Tangey who do their own research, who are capable of weeding out deceptions used by those like you and Al Gore and who refuse to become useful idiots of your cause.

  26. Matthew W says:

    Very excellent responses by Chris Tangey to the producer !!!

  27. Jimbo says:

    Here’s what global warming looks like.

    “Black Thursday” 1851 – Australia
    The year 1850 had been one of exceptional heat and drought. Pastures had withered ; creeks had become fissured clay-pans ; water-holes had disappeared ; sheep and cattle had perished in great numbers, and the sun-burnt plains were strewn with their bleached skeletons; the very leaves upon the trees crackled in the heat and appeared to be as inflammable as tinder. As the summer advanced the temperature became torrid, and on the morning of the 6th of February, 1851, the air which blew down from the north resembled the breath of a furnace. A fierce wind
    arose, gathering strength and velocity from hour to hour, until about noon it blew with the violence of a tornado. By some inexplicable means it wrapped the whole countr)’ in a sheet of flame — fierce, awful and irresistible. Men, women and children, sheep and cattle, birds and snakes fled before the fire in a common panic……………..
    http://www.archive.org/stream/australasiaillus01garruoft/australasiaillus01garruoft_djvu.txt
    http://home.iprimus.com.au/foo7/fire1851.html

  28. Silver Ralph says:

    >>bikermailman says: November 11, 2012 at 8:06 am
    >>This evening, I’ll raise a glass to Mr. Tangey when I do so to the
    >>men and women of our military.

    And I’ll raise one in Blighty too. A fine ruby port, perhaps.

    To Mr Tangey. Good onya mate, a fine and stinging reposte.

    .

  29. Tsk Tsk says:

    “As a freelance producer I had no idea when I started this project that the US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement”

    Then I guess the US is still the last, best hope for the world.

    Tangey’s response was fantastic and just further proves the ends justify the means for the warmers. Remind me about all the evil that big oil and the Koch brothers are doing again.

  30. tckev says:

    Al, get a grip! Talk to us…
    There are ten of thousands of starving and unemployed special effects people in Hollywood since computerized pixel manipulation took over. I’m sure if you employed just a few of them an even more impressive TrueRealism(c) video could be made.
    Please Al, get your people to meet with our people.

  31. Annie says:

    I’m so impressed with Chris Tangey’s responses; well done that man!

    Annie, UK-based Sceptic.

  32. higley7 says:

    As no gas of any kind or concentration can have a detectable effect on the temperature of the atmosphere, other than the overall gas density and pressure, all of this is clearly junk science. The greenhouse effect in the atmosphere does not exist and greenhouse gases, per se, do not exist. Quite a number to well-established laws of physics and thermodynamics clearly show that a cold upper troposphere simply cannot heat a warmer surface. It is only ignorance, voluntary or purposeful, that allows people to support the manmade global warming junk science claims.

    AL GORE IS NOTHING BUT ANIMATED JUNK SCIENCE.

    It is only the need to have a reason to blame something huge and scary on mankind, and rally everybody to a cause, that they targeted a scientific conjecture by Arrhenius which was never confirmed and, indeed, failed. This is a truly political agenda being foisted on the public. By hiding and sheltering this scam in the IPCC, they removed the propaganda source from outside influence and, as we are told already, their next report is meant to be truly terrifying—all in the face of a climate which has not warmed at all in over 16 years!

    We should be incredibly thankful that the US supports a healthy number of scientists who oppose the adulteration of science and the scientific method. 75 of 77 hand selected scientists comprise the 98% scientists “consensus.” About 44 “climate scientists” comprise the Warmist science Team (in quotes as scientists who alter data for an agenda are not scientists). There are over 31,000 PhDs (the Oregon Project) who oppose and deny the junk science of Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    Being labeled “Deniers” is a clear sign that they know they have lost the “debate.” For that matter, a debate suggests two different points of view being discussed. It is not a debate when one side has nothing to contribute to the discussion except lies and ad hominem attacks.

    As the Warmist Bedwetters and Whiners, to fight fire with fire while NOT losing, claim the science is settled, they refuse to debate the science. They KNOW that they cannot win an open debate of the junk science they claim to support. It does not bother the average citizen that the Warmists consistently avoid debating the science. ManBearPig Al Gore is a modern day Rachael Carson, hawking junk science to push a radical political/environmental agenda which happens to enrich him personally. Greed is his middle name.

  33. Jimbo says:

    Here’s Fat Gores problem: If he got the video and aired it there are people who then go onto the net to find out more. Then they find that its not rare and nothing to do with global warming. Then they think to themselves that Al Gore is at best an alarmist. The more they dig then the more they are convinced that CAGW is a scam.

    Also known as fire whirls, fire devils, or even firenados, these whirlwinds of flame are not really rare, just rarely documented, Jason Forthofer, a mechanical engineer at the U.S. Forest Services’s Missoula Fire Sciences Laboratory in Montana, said in 2010.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/09/pictures/120920-fire-tornadoes-vortex-firenadoes-devils-science-weather/

    I’ll take his word over Al ‘Brothers Grimm’ Gore any day.

  34. John West says:

    “As a freelance producer I had no idea when I started this project that the US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement”

    What exactly is a “Climate Denier”? Is there a movement to deny climate? Are they denying climate exists? Are they denying something from climate that climate wants? /sarc

    I guess she still has no clue of Jo Nova, Tallbloke, Ecotretas, etc. etc. etc. Goes to show you the level of fact checking these people do, nada. Those of us that deny there’s a need to necessarily skyrocket energy costs are all around the world and without nearly the funding of CAGW action advocates.

  35. Chris, Chapeau (that means ‘hats off’)
    Richard Feyman would have been very proud of you. You’re the ‘right stuff’
    Great job.
    Andre

  36. John West says:

    He’ll probably just resort to making his own fire tornado.
    Scale this up a bit with a little editing and voilà:

  37. Mount Soap Box….The end always justifies the means for: True Believers, Demigods, Ideal logs and evangelists for any purpose, ideal, belief system or objective. They will and have, through history, demonstrated how to use the “big lie” and profit from doing so. These people and groups are in every corner of every society. They can be trusted only to do or say anything that will gain them power and wealth….dismount Soap Box.

  38. OssQss says:

    As the head of the snake goes, the rest is sure to follow.

    An obvious act of desperation due to lack of new material. Don’t be surprised if they find another video or create one. I wonder if they could get it so spin the right way this time if they did make one ?

    Cudo’s to the “denial of spintential” on the part of Chris!

  39. Curfew says:

    oldseadog says:
    I am surprised that Andrea Smith thinks that USA is the only country in the world with an “active Climate Denier” movement.
    Absolutely.It just shows the very limited scope she has for her sources of information.
    Well done Mr. Tangey!

  40. Todd says:

    I’m not sure if this is off topic or not. When my mother was a girl, around 1930, the woods caught fire around her house. She lived on a farm in south western Virginia. Her father woke her and her brothers and sisters up, and they went out and fought the fire. The fire had burned to the top of the ridge above their house, and burning branches and other debris were being carried into the air by the updraft and were falling as far as half a mile away, and were landing in the yard and on the roof, and spreading the fire. My mother and one of her sisters were on the roof of the house, which at that time was a wood shingle roof, throwing burning debris off, and her brothers were carrying water from the creek, to use to keep the roof wet. Her father was doing the same for the out buildings. They were up all night, but they saved the house and the out buildings.

    My mother never mentioned a fire tornado and maybe just an updraft from the fire would have been enough. I wish I could ask my mother about it.

  41. Gunga Din says:

    I imagine Algore will make mention of the event and supply what he claims was the cause even without the video. Maybe he’ll substitute shots of Dresden in WW2? At least that firestorm really was man-made though not related to any “climate” other than political.

  42. Jimbo says:

    You people are just being unfair to Al Gore. He is so convinced about CAGW that he has done at least 2 logical things which makes me know he is a genuine guy who cares for the planet.

    1) Purchased a second large house with 6 fireplaces not far from the ocean to double his co2 footprint.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/photos-al-goree-new-8875_n_579286.html#s91230

    2) He is bailing out of ‘green energy’ investments.
    http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1375534/000117266112000799/generation2q12.txt

    Don’t trust a word that comes out of this mans mouth as he is prone to exaggerate and produces entertaining fairy tales.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/oct/11/climatechange

  43. Bob, Missoula says:

    Perhaps Mr. Tangey should sell the rights to the Heartland Institute then Heartland could offer the footage free of charge if they (Heartland) are allowed equal time on Gore’s documentary.

  44. slow to follow says:

    “As a freelance producer I had no idea when I started this project that the US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement – every other country in the world has accepted this as a fact and is moving forward to do something about it.”

    Andrea – for your information – some well thought of people outside the US who do not accept that the CAGW science is settled:

    http://www.thegwpf.org/who-we-are/board-of-trustees/

    http://www.thegwpf.org/who-we-are/academic-advisory-council/

  45. But, is there any chance that we can be provided with an e-dress for her with which we can add further comments (polite ones!)?

    IanM

    Great term!

  46. Lana Hope says:

    I don’t buy global warming, but I am very passionate about taking care of our environment nonetheless. so whether or not global warming is right, we need to change our ways.

  47. Keith says:

    Off topic and perhaps previously covered New Zealand will not sign up for Kyoto 2 even though others “Down Under” have committed to it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/zealand-wont-sign-kyoto-2-climate-treaty-070407501.html

  48. davidmhoffer says:

    Andrea L. Smith;
    I’m somewhat embarrassed I live in a country where we so greedily use up so much of the earth’s resources and seem immune to it.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Well Andrea, right now the entire world is on pins and needles because of the possible “financial cliff” being faced by the United States in just a few weeks time. If the worst happens, there will be a near instant reduction in the American GDP of 3% to 5%. Do you know why this is of such a concern to the rest of the world?

    BECAUSE IT WOULD DRAG THE ENTIRE GLOBAL ECONOMY INTO RECESSION AND POSSIBLY DEPRESSION.

    So you see uniformed little propaganda muppet, the rest of the world seems to think that the continued “greed” and growth of the American economy is vital to the world economy. The United States being wealthy doesn’t make other countries poor. Exactly the opposite.

  49. cui bono says:

    Thousands of hat tips to Chris.

    So Andrea has visited Australia twice and still thinks the USA is “the only country” with doubts? Sure, no debate in Australia. Settled science in Oz.

    Great research Andrea! I’m sure it will show up in your programs. /s

  50. Hoser says:

    Piller of cloud by day and piller of fire by night. Where is Pharaoh now? 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

  51. polistra says:

    Double bravo to Tangey for hitting back directly. The vast majority of this dispute happens without any direct exchanges. The wackos spend billions of our tax money to spread their murderous religion, and the rest of us spend hundreds to disprove and discredit the wackos. We don’t have anything they specifically want, so we don’t get a chance to deprive them of something they want.

  52. Day By Day says:

    Producer Andrea says:I have produced a piece on climate change and coffee in Colombia with scientists from CIAT, so it is very grounded in science, and both fascinating and terrifying as to what is happening all over this planet.

    Well she’s half right. The coffee is certainly “grounded” in science.

    @higley7 who says: There are over 31,000 PhDs (the Oregon Project) who oppose and deny the junk science of Anthropogenic Global Warming. You made a great point(s) but I think the Oregon Project had over 9 thousand PhDs and the rest were other types of experts, engineers and such. Let’s not get facts incorrect and give the Ice Age Deniers more ammo.

  53. Bob Berwyn says:

    As usual, in your eagerness to hatefully attack the messenger, you miss the forest for the trees. There are numerous studies showing it’s almost certain we will see larger and more intense wildfires in many parts of the world.

  54. stephen richards says:

    Lana Hope says:

    November 11, 2012 at 10:21 am
    I don’t buy global warming, but I am very passionate about taking care of our environment nonetheless. so whether or not global warming is right, we need to change our ways.

    And what would you suggest, Lana? Stop driving cars, shut down power stations, close our factories.? What you perhaps have not realised is that things have changed, and continue to change, for the past several hundred years. Our rivers are cleaner, our vehicules are cleaner and more economic, we educate females and children, our skies are clearer, our towns are cleaner?

    All this has happened without windmills, solar panels etc. So I ask again, change to what??

  55. davidmhoffer says:

    Bob Berwyn says:
    November 11, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    As usual, in your eagerness to hatefully attack the messenger, you miss the forest for the trees. There are numerous studies showing it’s almost certain we will see larger and more intense wildfires in many parts of the world.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    There are numerous studies showing that temperatures will have increased by 0.2 to 0.3 degrees over the last 15 years (except they haven’t) that increases will be accelerating (except they aren’t) that sea level rise will accelerate (except is isn’t) that hurricanes will increase in frequency and strength (except they haven’t) and that Manhatten would be under water by now. I haven’t personally checked that last one, could you do me solid and take a look see? Along with the wildfires claim, perhaps they got one prediction right?

  56. Philip Peake says:

    My guess is that they will use it anyway.
    They only need a few seconds for effect, and they can claim “fair use” to avoid copyright issues.

  57. RockyRoad says:

    Lana Hope says:

    November 11, 2012 at 10:21 am
    I don’t buy global warming, but I am very passionate about taking care of our environment nonetheless. so whether or not global warming is right, we need to change our ways.

    As a former mining engineer, I can assure you what I did was far more beneficial to the environment than a million trash-separating enviros combined. Now, that may sound counterintuitive, but leaving thousands of acres better suited for biodiversity after mining while also reaping the minerals and fossil fuels so you can drive around telling everybody they need to change their ways is exactly what I’m talking about.

    (I get the feeling that most people here are not only conscientious about their impact on the environment, they’re actually doing something about it. Stick around, Lana–you might come to the same conclusion and we welcome your imput.)

  58. MonktonofOz says:

    John Eggert says: Global warming has provided an excellent cover for political incompetence. …. … And I’ll stop ranting now.
    No John don’t ever stop. If we fail to keep on (rationally) ranting then those who uncritically accept the crap dished up by much of the mainstream media will never learn the facts. If we open the mind of just one person per day we have a chance of exposing the truth.

  59. David Ball says:

    Lana Hope says:
    November 11, 2012 at 10:21 am

    You have mistakenly bought into the notion that going backwards is going forward. It is technological innovations and increases of efficiency that will clean the world. Perhaps one day all mining, resources, and production will be done off the earth. This is not as far off as some would have you believe.

  60. _Jim says:

    higley7 says November 11, 2012 at 9:23 am

    As no gas of any kind or concentration can have a detectable effect on the temperature of the atmosphere, …

    Oops .. not a meteorologist I take it higley7? Maybe one can explain to you how humid night air contributes to _less_ over-night cooling in an area vs a ‘dry’ air mass over that same area …

    (WV is a gas, no?)

    .

  61. Tim Clark says:

    {Bob Berwyn says:
    November 11, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    As usual, in your eagerness to hatefully attack the messenger, you miss the forest for the trees. There are numerous studies showing it’s almost certain we will see larger and more intense wildfires in many parts of the world.}

    As usual, in your eagerness to post unsupported trollop, you omit those studies showing robust results that indicate parts of the world will see smaller and less intense wildfires.I would imagine that some parts of the world will see no fire. And perhaps some parts of the world are always on fire.

    But continue to fire away.

  62. Steve in SC says:

    “As a freelance producer I had no idea when I started this project that the US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement”
    Well Andrea, to paraphrase Lewis Grizzard, Delta is ready when you are. Bless your heart.

  63. Justthinkin says:

    If coffee disappears in the wild, it will only be because the areas where it grows will be converted to produce domesticated coffee.
    Or bio-fuels.
    And for the ill-informed,large swathes of forest in NA would not be there without fires.Lodgepole pine being just one which needs the heat of fires for their seeds to activate.But then I know the cAGW whores are there for the bucks only(no insult to real prostitutes)

  64. mfo says:

    Andrea L Smith doesn’t sound like a real person, especially with the initials AL :-)

  65. nevket240 says:

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i8f64cNLNM3VZWOmmY2VoKpVeW5w?docId=CNG.fb3bd09177c5a6b080a3a68b3038a92e.251

    we can expect a barrage of “Poor Panda’ snaps op go with the ‘Poor Polar bear’ snaps any moment from now.
    10,9,8,7
    regards

  66. D Böehm says:

    Bob Berwyn,

    Got links to those “numerous studies”?

  67. DirkH says:

    Lana Hope says:
    November 11, 2012 at 10:21 am
    “I don’t buy global warming, but I am very passionate about taking care of our environment nonetheless. so whether or not global warming is right, we need to change our ways.”

    You probably voted for Obama, so you already helped a lot of people do just that.
    http://suyts.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/us-leftists-demonstrate-complete-ignorance-of-well-all-things/

  68. Sean says:

    “As a freelance producer I had no idea when I started this project that the US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement – every other country in the world has accepted this as a fact and is moving forward to do something about it.”

    The arrogance of A.L. Smith is astounding. I would wager that she has “no idea” about a lot of things, particularly science and climate change.

  69. Goldie says:

    It seems she is very misinformed. The U.S. is not the only country with an active skeptic group. As an Australian citizen I have to say that I do not support Julia Gillard’s carbon tax and more to the point neither did she until she needed the Green vote to stay in power. Perhaps if we are to use labels we should use the term “Climate cynics” for those who have determined to push their agenda, whatever it might be, through the vehicle of climate change.

  70. john robertson says:

    Bob Berwyn,
    I agree, everywhere government funded fire fighting has allowed excess fuel to accumulate we will indeed see massive and intense fires. Zip to do with AGW. For links see the forest service reports on wild fires and no burn policies of past 40 years. Mesa Verde fire ect.

  71. David A. Evans says:

    Didn’t Oz have what was essentially a single issue party contesting the last GE over CAGW?

    DaveE.

  72. Be on the lookout for creepy Agenda 21 commercials, the Climate Change agenda is part of that plan. They say, “Agenda 21 is Coming Soon”, at the end of the commercials. What are they trying to tell us?

    Agenda 21 Commercial 11/8/2012

    Creepy Agenda 21 commercial

  73. Trieste Martin says:

    Chris Tangey is a national hero

  74. DirkH says:

    Goldie says:
    November 11, 2012 at 2:57 pm
    “It seems she is very misinformed. The U.S. is not the only country with an active skeptic group. ”

    Portrait the enemy as a small deluded isolated group. Simple trick.
    A L smith, I’m German. I see what you’re doing, and why you’re doing it.
    How’s the poodle doing.

  75. squid2112 says:

    _Jim says:
    November 11, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    higley7 says November 11, 2012 at 9:23 am

    As no gas of any kind or concentration can have a detectable effect on the temperature of the atmosphere, …

    Oops .. not a meteorologist I take it higley7? Maybe one can explain to you how humid night air contributes to _less_ over-night cooling in an area vs a ‘dry’ air mass over that same area …

    (WV is a gas, no?)

    Jim, please explain to me how what you describe, is an example of the GHE. Then please explain to me how the supposed GHG you describe, warms the surface of the planet. Go ahead, take your time…. I’ll wait…

  76. Jimbo says:

    Lana Hope says:
    November 11, 2012 at 10:21 am

    I don’t buy global warming, but I am very passionate about taking care of our environment nonetheless. so whether or not global warming is right, we need to change our ways.

    I agree. But what do you want us to change and to what extent? I will not stop using gas (LPG), diesel, coal until and unless economical and practical alternatives are found or they run out or not made available through legislation.

    Now read about somebody who has changed somethings in their life. Ask yourself have you done all these things and more? I certainly have not.
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/about-wuwt/about2/

  77. squid2112 says:

    john robertson, have we not also been told that a warming planet will be a wetter atmosphere? Would that not have a tendency to suppress fire ignition? As I recall, the warmista argument to all of the record snow was that the atmosphere is now holding more water (more humid, wetter). And I would like someone to explain to me how suddenly fires can ignite at less than 450C (for paper), or even 246C for Gasoline. I believe we still have a little way to go until Carbon disulfide spontaneously ignites at even 90C. I am just shocked that forests are now able to ignite at only 30C-40C .. amazing!

    I think if our planet does indeed warm to the point that forests begin to ignite, we will have had far worse problems to contend with. I am sure at that point nobody would be around to experience it.

  78. A. Scott says:

    “As a freelance producer I had no idea when I started this project that the US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement”

    What an absolute box of rocks. A clueless, blind follower of the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do, I’ve-made-millions-lying-to-people-about-CAGW, Windbag-in-Chief Al Gore.

    Here’s a clue Andrea – you are not promoting discussion or anything of the sort. You are engaged in the same, no holds barred jihad of your fearless leader Al Gore. He has no morals nor scruple – and has been shown to completely disregard the facts or the truth to push forward his self-serving propaganda.

    At least you admitted you were clueless – when you made the comment about “Climate Deniers” – as this site – WUWT – shows there is a large and growing group around the world who question the manufactured hysteria of those like you boos regarding climate change. And this group of “Climate Deniers” as you arrogantly (and falsely) call them, size and reach is larger than your project and of Al Gore himself:

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wattsupwiththat.com

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/climaterealityproject.org

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/www.algore.com

    Your continued attempt to obtain this ‘fire devil’ footage, despite knowing it has zero relevance to your show, or the science behind CAGW – for the sole purpose of showing as inflammatory an image as possible – shows you and your boss for the unethical, win at any costs even if it means knowingly lying, people you are.

    The only thing “Dirty” behind your weather propaganda show, is the unethical people behind it.

  79. tango says:

    Aborigines have been burning the Australian bush every summer for thousands of years ,in the Australian summer lightning strikes start thousands of wild fires right across the continent .I have 50 years service in the rual fire service and have seen this type of fire behavour many times . ask the old timers thay will tell you it happens at most fires . they call them willy willys you will see them fires or no fires http://www.lrm.nt.gov.au/bushfires/aboriginal

  80. LetsBeResonable says:

    I notice a lot of people are condemning the process of looking at global warming to the frequency and intensity of extreme weather events. However, as an open minded skeptic, I would have thought this is exactly the sort of examination that should be made to see what adaptions we should be planning for.

  81. AndyG55 says:

    _Jim says:
    Maybe one can explain to you how humid night air contributes to _less_ over-night cooling in an area vs a ‘dry’ air mass over that same area …

    (WV is a gas, no?)

    Well, sort of but not always. It is the changing state of H20 in the atmosphere, and that it tends to exist as small droplets rather than as simple molecules (which would be a gas).

    It is this changing state that gives water a large specific heat and latent energy capacity thus slowing the heat transfer by convection. Think of being stuck behind a series of large trucks up a hill. They carry a lot more, but move slowly. And when they reach the top all that energy is dissipated, often quickly.

  82. zefal says:

    “I’m somewhat embarrassed I live in a country where we so greedily use up so much of the earth’s resources and seem immune to it.”
    Calamity Climate is embarrassed that “we” greedily use so much resources while she flies all around the world. She doesn’t seem so embarrassed.

  83. Where has all this stuff we’ve been talking about for years coming from?
    Here’s a snapshot;
    “II. Human interaction with the Earth
    8. The entire history of our species has taken place in the geological period
    traditionally called the Holocene, a relatively brief interval in the history of the
    planet, stretching back 10,000 years. During that time, humankind has influenced
    every aspect of the Earth’s environment on a massive scale. Almost all of the
    planet’s ecosystems bear the marks of our presence.
    9. There are many well-known aspects of humanity’s influence on the
    environment, and among the most prominent is climate change. The deforestation of
    vast tracts of land, in some cases nearly entire continents, means that great
    quantities of soil are being eroded and swept away; rich grasslands are turning to
    deserts; ancient ice formations are melting away; and species are being pushed
    towards extinction. Nutrients from fertilizers wash off fields and down rivers,
    creating stretches of sea where nothing grows except vast algal blooms.
    Atmospheric carbon dioxide may be at its highest level in 15 million years.
    10. A growing number of scientists have advanced the concept that we have
    entered a new geological epoch that needs a new name, the Anthropocene. The
    Anthropocene is a term that has been widely used, particularly since the publication
    of an article by Paul Crutzen and Eugene Stoermer in 20002 to denote the present
    epoch, in which many geologically significant conditions and processes are being
    profoundly altered by human activity, including:
    (a) The erosion and the shifting of sediments associated with a variety of
    anthropogenic processes, including colonization, agriculture, urbanization and
    global warming;
    (b) The changing chemical composition of the atmosphere, oceans and soils,
    including significant man-made changes in the distribution of elements such as
    carbon, nitrogen, phosphorous and various metals;”
    http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/67/317&Lang=E

    http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/index.html

  84. A. Scott says:

    Here is a perfect example of exactly who Al Gore is:

    http://pjmedia.com/blog/gore-hits-the-waves-with-a-massive-new-houseboat/

  85. Niff says:

    As a freelance producer I had no idea when I started this project that the US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement – every other country in the world has accepted this as a fact and is moving forward to do something about it

    What planet are these people on?

  86. johanna says:

    I think that by now Al should have got the message, having been told to Foxtrot Oscar at length, and in detail. Chris Tangney has a fine turn of phrase!

    Did they really think that an ill-informed, syrupy email from this not-too-bright bimbo would change his mind?

  87. gnomish says:

    “As usual, in your eagerness to post unsupported trollop”
    time for tea and strumpets as soon as i clean my screen…

    Bravo, Mr Tanger! You’re winning with style and making them pay!

  88. Robert in Calgary says:

    Lana Hope says…

    “I don’t buy global warming, but I am very passionate about taking care of our environment nonetheless. so whether or not global warming is right, we need to change our ways.”

    Question Lana – as opposed to all the times in the last 400 years or so when we haven’t changed our ways?

    …and you include a link in your name to a blog that no longer exists? WUWT?

  89. Here is a facilitator they use. There is a 28 image slide show that will make your head spin.

    Dhiman Chowdhury description of slide show;
    “Balancing continued economic progress and conservation of our biosphere is the challenge of our time. It’s a dilemma of the anthropocene epoch. Without corporation to the mix, our endeavor is fruitless. Increasingly, corporations have adopted prescriptive, piecemeal and mechanistic environmental management techniques as a response to sustainability discourse. However, in light of the complexity, uncertainty, ambiguity and dynamic nature inherent in the sustainability challenge, at some bifurcation point in the organizational change process, these prescriptive and piecemeal solutions may not adequately account for the emerging multiple levels of environmental, social and financial conflict. A paradigm shift is thus essential: a behavioral change is thus called for. This presentation provides an explanation to the issue and a formulation to tackle challenge head-on: a behavioral competence that builds viable, equitable and responsible corporation resolving issues of sustainable business and sustainable world.

    Our Common Future
    http://www.slideshare.net/dchowdhu/our-common-future

  90. squid2112 says:

    @michaelwiseguy,

    There are many well-known aspects of humanity’s influence on the
    environment, and among the most prominent is climate change

    That is the crux of the primary discussions here. Prove to me that what you are citing is true. I have see absolutely no evidence to support this claim.

    The deforestation of vast tracts of land, in some cases nearly entire continents,

    Can you specify exactly which content you are referring to?

  91. DaveA says:

    Burning Man Bear Pig – when regular Man Bear Pig isn’t scary enough.

  92. Rick Bradford says:

    Andrea Smith perfectly fits the profile of the Left/Green activist.

    She is disingenuous (pretending to be independent from Gore), immature (running away from any answer to Tangey’s key point), rude (throwing in the ‘denier’ slur), and clueless (recycling alarmist garbage without question).

  93. pat says:

    Agenda 21? well, in australia the pollies are ramping up the smart meters are coming to help you save money spiel. UK pumping billions into them too:

    10 Nov: UK Telegraph: Christopher Booker: David Cameron backs the EU’s grand design for energy
    Another story last week – with the headline “We need wind farms to power electric cars, says Cameron” – may make us wonder. On the face of it, nothing could seem dottier than putting these two huge blunders together: the fanciful belief that we can somehow provide a third of our electricity from unreliable windmills; and the quixotic enthusiasm for electric cars whipinch, despite hefty subsidies, remain so unpopular that their UK sales have fallen this year to just 749.
    ***Mr Cameron’s faith in these vehicles is just as absurd as his plan, confirmed again last week by an energy minister, Baroness Verma, that every home and business in Britain must be fitted with “smart meters” within seven years, at a cost of £11 billion…
    The point about smart meters is that they do not only enable us consumers to keep tabs on our electricity use: they also (though our Government does not like to spell this out) enable suppliers to exercise remote control over how much electricity we use. The EU knows that the windmills it wants to see covering Europe are unpredictably intermittent, and cannot guarantee sufficient power when it is needed. The answer the EU’s technocrats dream of, as we see from the Bornholm pilot project for a “European supergrid”, is that they can use smart meters to micro-manage the power we receive, right down to their ability to switch off whole categories of electricity use in our homes when there is insufficient power in the grid (what they call “  ‘intelligent’ control of household appliances” , such as dishwashers or televisions)…
    BBC allowed to keep its dirty little secret
    A remarkable legal drama has been unfolding recently in London’s Camden Town, pitting a lone pensioner from Wales against all the might of the BBC, represented by an array of highly-paid lawyers. It has been a battle fought to determine the BBC’s right, under the Freedom of Information Act, to keep secret how it arrived at a major policy decision which, for six years, has allowed it to operate in breach of its legal obligations under its Charter…ETC ON TONY NEWBERY CASE…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9668782/David-Cameron-backs-the-EUs-grand-design-for-energy.html

  94. john robertson says:

    squid2112@4pm, did I need sarc on/off?

  95. Andrea clearly need to learn how to use web search engines to find those who don’t believe in imminent climate catastrophe.

    Of course, she could be of the sort who never stay around to talk or listen about climate. Pierre Gosselin reports from Germany: Professor Vahrenholt: Climate Science “A Real Effrontery”… “Scientists Leave The Room When They See Me”

    One long-standing and strong science advocacy organization in the German-speaking sphere has been EIKE. There’s also the NIPCC.

    There has long been a significant presence of cAGW infidels and heretics in the blogsphere in probably all languages, AFAICT. EcoTretas lists just a few of the non-english heretic sites.

  96. pat says:
    November 11, 2012 at 6:01 pm
    “Agenda 21? well, in australia the pollies are ramping up the smart meters are coming to help you save money spiel. UK pumping billions into them too:”

    If you ask me, every component of Agenda 21 and in every intricate detail in all 40 chapters of it, is a blueprint for global human enslavement in a scientific and technocratic control grid. Doesn’t sound too pleasant to me. The people trying to pull this off are evil incarnate.

  97. noaaprogrammer says:

    Jimbo says:
    “Furthermore, Gore has to strip out human caused fires like arson and camp fires. I want to see the fires caused by co2 and a ‘warming’ planet.”
    Since long-nosed Al said that the interior of the Earth is millions of degrees F, the only proof you need is to watch it spontaneously combust!

  98. OOPS.

    Correct links: EIKE and the NIPCC.

    Apologies for any inconvenience.

  99. Jimmy Haigh says:

    I hope there aren’t any green zealots out there now starting fires deliberately, video camera at the ready, in the hope of causing one of these ‘firenados’. And maybe thinking: “Al Gore will pay me a few bucks if I manage to get one of these puppies on film”.

  100. Annabelle says:

    Andrea was too dumb to understand what Chris was saying very clearly in his first reply. So this is the calibre of the intellect behind the Climate Reality Project.

  101. The property owner deliberately nurtured a highly flammable plant because it is a hardy native that prevents soil erosion.
    Just like the forest service deliberately leaves rotting stumps and needles on the forest floor.
    So yes, the prediction may come true that there will be an increase of wildfires, but it will be due to an increase of fuel. The fires will be larger and more destructive because the new tactic is to contain them, not extinguish them.
    Wildfire should be regarded as a normal and sometimes necessary step in plant regeneration, not as a scary retribution for man’s crimes. If Al Gore were really passionate about his environment, he would know that.

  102. pat says:

    accordionsrule –

    as the insane quest to make money from selling CO2 credits, etc moves into the australian outback, more bushfires may be the unintended/intended consequence:

    11 Nov: ABC Landline: Carbon Sunk
    PIP COURTNEY: A controversial plan to turn a central Australian cattle station into an arid zone carbon farm has hit a snag.
    It was launched with great fanfare a little over a year ago by Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke and RM Williams Agricultural Holdings.
    But now the management team at Henbury Station near Alice Springs has quit the project and neighbouring pastoralists are asking why the Commonwealth sank nearly $10 million into such an unproven scheme…
    Qantas even got on board this year by agreeing to purchase 1 million tonnes of carbon credits from Henbury.
    But 18 months on results are scant and there’s now rising speculation that the whole project could crash…
    KRISTY O’BRIEN: RM Williams Agricultural Holdings added Henbury to its portfolio to bulk up its green credentials and branch out into what it believes is a booming new market. But that task is proving every bit as hard as ***sceptics imagined it would be…
    KRISTY O’BRIEN: Scientists are also cautious about whether a carbon farming methodology can be developed for Central Australia’s dry and hugely varied landscape.
    DR GARY COOK, CSIRO: We do need to do a lot more on-ground measurements of the amount of carbon in the soil, the amount of carbon in the vegetation and how that changes over time.
    ***We need to have computer models that allow us to predict that into the future with the seasonal variation that we know exists down there…
    ***ROY CHISHOLM. NAPPERBY STATION: If it falls arse over head, well what’s it going to do? Is it going to revert back to a cattle property or are we going to lock it up and grow rabbits and weeds and make it a little haven for fire?…
    The Department of Climate Change says that once converted to a carbon reserve, Henbury can’t ever return to being a pastoral lease. It will have to remain destocked and locked up for conservation.
    It’s not clear from either side of the fence what exactly would happen to the Government’s $9 million investment. The former Agricultural Minister Tony Burke, who signed off on the Henbury deal, was unavailable for comment, leaving some in the local pastoral industry uneasy…
    LYNDEE SEVERIN: It seems to be a long way away from what the traditional base is and certainly very few people in Central Australia could understand with any common sense what that was all about. It seemed to be about pacifying a city-based stakeholder, not necessarily having very much to do with what actually happens on the land…
    http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2012/s3630155.htm

  103. Chris Tangey says:

    Just popped in for a look here and noticed an interesting juxtaposition. “accordionsule” talks two comments above about the “fire tornado” landowners nurturing the land and in the comment immediately below it is a quote from Lyndee Severin, her and her husband Ashley ARE the very same landowners. As I am going 50% with them on any news footage sales (to help them for their losses from the fire) I was a bit nervous about telling them about my refusal to Al Gore the first time.

    But when I shared the news they enthusiastically agreed and were very happy. You see, no matter where you live on Earth, you can’t fool those who live on the land.

  104. AndyG55 says:

    Congrats Chris, on taking the moral high ground !! :-)

  105. Philip Peake said (November 11, 2012 at 12:50 pm)

    “…My guess is that they will use it anyway.
    They only need a few seconds for effect, and they can claim “fair use” to avoid copyright issues…”

    Just a few seconds? My guess is they’ll use it in it’s entirety. They’re hoping that Chris Tangey or somebody from his crew will be forced to watch the entire 24-hours just to catch a glimpse of it.

    When it’s used, then Chris Tangey (who lives in Australia) can sue Mr Gore (who lives in the US) in court. The time it takes in the courts (determining venue, etc), and any money that Chris Tangey can get from the CRP (a non-profit organization) will be considered an “operating expense” in the CAGW battle. Al Gore will simply find someone on his team to “blame” for it’s use (he told us we couldn’t use it but an intern made a mistake).

    By then, the “fire tornado” and “extreme weather” will have been linked, and very few people will question it – Al Gore said it on the internet, it must be true.

    Too bad Anthony can’t be allowed to use it in his presentation (with Mr Tangey as a presenter), using it to show the tricks the CAGW crowd try to use to show just how “bad” it is, and that’s it’s only gonna get worse – much worse.

  106. Chris Tangey says:

    As I have already told Anthony he is more than happy to use it. Instead of me though, he should talk with a brave Climate Scientist who will relate how it doesn’t indicate climate change in any way.

  107. Snotrocket says:

    Of course, Gore has form when it comes to mis-using film material in support of his beliefs. In his ‘Inconvenient Truth’, the dramatic shots of the Antarctic Icebergs breaking up was found to be the CGI clip from the ridiculous film, ‘The Day After Tomorrow’.

  108. Gail Combs says:

    Lana Hope says:
    November 11, 2012 at 10:21 am

    I don’t buy global warming, but I am very passionate about taking care of our environment nonetheless. so whether or not global warming is right, we need to change our ways.
    _____________________________
    Why do you want all the rest of us to join you in a short miserable life?

    OH, now I understand WE, the Great Unwashed, are to have short miserable lives while YOU and the other great anointed like Al Gore and Maurice Strong live as wealthy feudal overlords. What are you planing, hidden factories that produce ‘luxury goods’ only for the privileged? Reeducation Centers for ‘Climate Deniers’ and if that fails mental institutions for the politically incorrect?

    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    So what does the Soviet Union, Cambodia and China tell us about the fate of the Intelligentsia (people like you) after the ‘Revolution’

    Attacks on Intelligentsia

    In the years immediately following their accession to power in 1917, the Bolsheviks took measures to prevent challenges to their new regime…. The suppression of democratic institutions evoked strong protests from academics and artists,who felt betrayed in their idealistic belief that revolution would bring a free society. Writers who had emigrated shortly after the revolution published stinging attacks on the new government from abroad. As a result, further exit permits for artists were generally denied….

    Scientists, artists, poets, and others, including many who did not think of themselves as dissidents but whose work appeared critical of Soviet life, were systematically persecuted and even prosecuted.Often they were declared either enemies of the state and imprisoned, or insane and committed to punitive mental hospitals.

    To speak for human rights or to support freedom of expression was to question the very basis of Marxism-Leninism and the legitimacy of the party’s rule. Among those harassed and persecuted were world-renowned artists and scientists, including Nobel Prize winners Boris Pasternak, who was forced to refuse his prize; Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, who was forcibly removed from the USSR; and Andrei Sakharov, who was expelled from the Academy of Sciences and internally exiled to a closed city.

    The Killing Fields – Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge
    …The Khmer Rouge wanted to make Cambodia a new country. It wanted to make it self-sufficient. It wanted to make it powerful. It wanted to start over.

    Literally.

    The Khmer Rouge started by ordering all Cambodian civilians out of the cities….

    The Khmer Rouge managed to empty the city of Phnom Penh by spreading a false rumor that there was going to be an American air-raid on the capital…. And once the population had been relocated to the countryside, it was easy for Khmer Rouge soldiers to pick and separate people and send them to the camps. From here, the Khmer Rouge would start a new country, called the ‘Democratic Kampuchea’.

    Of course, there was absolutely nothing ‘democratic’ about this new country….

    Once Cambodians reached the camps, they were separated from each other,
    Hundreds of doctors, lawyers, nurses, businessmen, diplomats, teachers, anyone who had anything at all to do with with the former Republic of Cambodia government, anyone who worked for a foreign government and anyone with a university degree was interrogated and then killed in any number of ways. Almost anyone in Cambodia who had any kind of education, from university down to elementary school, was killed. The Khmer Rouge didn’t want all these smart, dangerous people screwing up their wonderful new vision for Cambodia….

    Once those intent on tearing down western civilization are successful and your usefulness is at an end, do not be surprised if you find yourself ‘exiled to a closed city.’ Heck they are planning to put the entire world population into closed cities. That is what Agenda 21, Sustainability, the idea of foodsheds, the war on energy, the Biodiversity Treaty and the Wildlands Project is all about.

    How about listening to what a liberal democrat, Vietnam protesting lesbian who works for the California government has to say. Perhaps you might open your ears and listen to her. video

  109. pat says:

    chris tangey, how interesting re Lyndee Severin…little did i know. good to hear some voices from the land.

    O/T but the BBC thread is becoming unwieldy for comments, and this does give mention of Tony Newbery’s tribunal hearing. BBC is in meltdown:

    12 Noc: Register: Andrew Orlowski: BBC places news chief and her deputy beyond use in Savile row
    Latest DG leaps overboard from rudderless behemoth
    Boaden was paid £354,000 last year, and a fortnight ago took time out to fend off a freedom-of-information request at a tribunal…
    Fran Unsworth takes over as acting head of news. In 2006 she helped set a new agenda for reporting environmental issues in a blog post of some historical interest.
    Worse may yet come. Paleo-commentator Simon Heffer points out that the peer wrongly accused on Twitter following the BBC’s Newsnight report has an ancient antipathy towards BBC Trust chairman Lord Patten…
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/12/bbc_news_heads/

    1 Aug 2006: BBC: Fran Unsworth: Environmental Changes
    You would have had to have been in hibernation for the past few years to have missed the ascent of the environment up the news agenda. We have been suffering a heat wave this week that many people have found unpleasant, the south east is crippled with drought and the UK apparently now produces award-winning wine because we can grow vines successfully in this country.
    Many are questioning whether climate change is responsible for all this; others argue these events are cyclical.
    There is a huge responsibility on us to be a trusted and reliable source of information. But to report the subject properly we have to look not only at the science, but also the impact of environmental issues on economics, business and politics. Like all journalistic organisations we tend to have difficulty doing joined-up reporting…
    That’s why we have decided to appoint an environment analyst to try to pull together some of these threads. Roger Harrabin has covered the environment for two decades, largely for radio where he has reported the story as it appears through energy, transport, housing and politics.
    In his new post he will spread this approach across a wider range of BBC outlets offering original stories and new perspectives, and tackling such subjects as…
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/08/environmental_changes.html
    (COMMENT by Christopher Tierney: The only voices arguing against Climate change are those whose words are motivated by ignorance or money, and it’s a shame that so many of the media find it necessary to do the oil companies’ work for them by planting the seeds of doubt. Not one credible scientific paper published in the last 15 years casts doubt on the fact that we’re causing global climate change, but scepticism among politicians and the media go against this concensus, with 53% of newspaper articles published in that time expressing doubt over our responsibility for the current crisis.When is the overwhelming weight of scientific evidence going to change hearts and minds? It took decades for tobacco’s health hazards to become commonly accepted because of industry pressure; will the ability of Big Oil to buy the hearts and minds of politicans mean that the same will be true of climate change? I’m afraid we don’t have time to find out.)

    extraordinary the tobacco /oil nonsense was going on back then!

  110. Gail Combs says:

    Bob Berwyn says:
    November 11, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    As usual, in your eagerness to hatefully attack the messenger, you miss the forest for the trees. There are numerous studies showing it’s almost certain we will see larger and more intense wildfires in many parts of the world.
    ____________________________________
    Of course there is and it is caused by humans. The part you are leaving out is that it will be caused by Activists who got laws passed preventing homeowners from clearing away dangerous trees/shrubs and from the abandonment of managed forests and controlled burning. This means flammable materials build up so that when (not if) there is a fire it is devastating.

    Black Saturday provides bushfire answers
    Melbourne, Australia (SPX) Jan 19, 2012

    Clearing vegetation close to houses is the best way to reduce impacts of severe bushfires, according to a team of scientists from Australia and the USA who examined house loss after as a result of Black Saturday, when a series of fires raged across the Australian state of Victoria, killing 173 and injuring 414.

    The research involving 12,000 measurements at 500 houses affected by the Black Saturday fires was only made possible by the sheer size of the devastation of February 7, 2009.

    “More than any other major wildfire in Australia, Black Saturday provided an unprecedented opportunity to learn about the effects of land management on house loss,” said senior author Dr Philip Gibbons from The Australian National University.

    The research team found that fuel reduction close to houses afforded the greatest protection.

    “Clearing trees and shrubs within 40 meters of houses was the most effective form of fuel reduction on Black Saturday,” said Dr Gibbons.

    “However, there was less risk to houses from vegetation in planted gardens compared with vegetation in remnant native bushland.”

    Houses close to public forest were at greater risk, but concerns raised after Black Saturday about national parks were not reflected in the results….

    A key issue after Black Saturday was prescribed burning. However, the researchers found that protection afforded to houses by prescribed burning on Black Saturday was only modest, despite the team examining landscapes that had been burnt considerably before Black Saturday.

    “Clearing vegetation within 40 meters of houses was twice as effective as prescribed burning,” said Dr Geoff Cary from ANU….

    “We’ve lost two people in my family because you dickheads won’t cut trees down…”

  111. Leo Norekens says:

    Very eloquent replies by Chris Tangey. Pity about the “anthropological climate change” (instead of anthropogenic) (3 times).

  112. KevinM says:

    WUWT and Climate Depot are literally the only places I ever see Gore’s name anymore. If you would just let hime fade into obscurity it would be mutually beneficial.

  113. Gail Combs says:

    RockyRoad says:
    November 11, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    ….(I get the feeling that most people here are not only conscientious about their impact on the environment, they’re actually doing something about it. Stick around, Lana–you might come to the same conclusion and we welcome your imput…..
    _____________________________
    You are correct. Like many others here I was a member of Green Peace, Sierra Club, WWF, Nature Conservancy and others in my youth. Over the last 17 years though intelligent land management practices I have increased the topsoil on my farm from zero (clay with 1-2% organic) to four inches.

    Other WUWT regulars are similar to me. The only difference between us and people like Lana Hope is we can separate the useful from the hype. Like the laughable myth that ‘Climate Deniers’ are an organized group well funded by the oil companies, the myth we are greedy consumers is also laughable. Take Al Gore’s $100 Million and Maurice Strong’s $44 billion or even the $104,000 a year earned by university climate scientists and compare it to my business’sgross of $24,000. I am probably on the low end of the wealth scale but I doubt there are m/any billionaires among us ‘deniers’. The same can not be said of those profiting from the CAGW scare.

  114. Chuck Nolan says:

    Go Home says:
    November 11, 2012 at 7:25 am
    I can appreciate Chris’s integrity of not taking Gores money to present another lie to the world. But personally, I wish he would take the money and give them license to lie. Would be good fodder for the rest of us to once again ridicule Al Gore, the man with no conscience. I say let him step in it.
    —————————-
    Go Home, I disagree.
    How quickly would Wikipedia change the “fire whirl” story if Chris let Al Gore use the footage?
    I believe Al would get his connection to CAGW in a heartbeat. The MSM would provide maximum coverage of the story, too.
    To paraphrase “they dohn need no steenking truth”.
    cn

  115. Gail Combs says:

    LetsBeResonable says:
    November 11, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    I notice a lot of people are condemning the process of looking at global warming to the frequency and intensity of extreme weather events….
    ________________________________
    That is because we understand it is a political fiction. A warmer planet is wetter and has less extreme weather events. It is a cooler world where the temperature gradient from the tropics to the poles is greater and the Jets go from polar (straight) to meridional (loopy) that produce the extreme weather events. link

    …Hubert Lamb is one of the best known climate scientists of all time, and founded the Climate Research Unit at the UEA. In his book, “Climate: Past, Present & Future”, he talks about the climate during the 1960’s and early 70’s when the Arctic was getting colder and sea ice expanding. He identifies one of the effects of this Arctic shift as

    “changes over middle latitudes, where the most significant feature has been the very awkward type of variability from year to year, associated with the behaviour of blocking systems and meridional circulation patterns.” which led to “the extremes of cold and warmth, drought and flood associated with the occurrences of blocking in middle latitudes.”

    Scientists at the time even identified the mechanism involved

    “The slight drop in temperature produces large numbers of pressure centres in the upper atmosphere. These break up the smooth flow of westerly winds over temperate areas.The stagnant air produced in this way causes an increase in extremes of local weather such as droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons and even local temperature increases.”

    SOURCE

  116. Gail Combs says:

    michaelwiseguy says:
    November 11, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    …If you ask me, every component of Agenda 21 and in every intricate detail in all 40 chapters of it, is a blueprint for global human enslavement in a scientific and technocratic control grid…..
    _____________________________
    And the useful idiots are saying “Please Mr. Gore, I want a slave collar too.”

  117. Gail Combs says:

    Chris Tangey says:
    November 11, 2012 at 9:10 pm
    …. You see, no matter where you live on Earth, you can’t fool those who live on the land.
    _______________________________________
    Very True. It is the reason why the U.S. NGO, the Committee on Economic Development, decided to get rid of american farmers right after WWII link

    V. Lenin, the founder of the Russian revolution knew this too.
    ‘ The Socialist Revolution in the US cannot take place because there are too many small independent farmers there. Those people are the stability factor. We here in Russia must hurry while our government is stupid enough to not encourage and support the independent farmership.’ V. Lenin, the founder of the Russian revolution
    Quote provided by Anna Fisher

  118. Dave says:

    Kudos to Chris Tangey for his integrity on substance and disclosing Gore’s actions and to you Anthony for maintaining a suitable platform for disseminating knowledge of apparent duplicitous efforts by Gore, et al to acquire rights to My Tangey’s work.

  119. thelastdemocrat says:

    Scientific American, in print, abt a year ago, had an article on how the anthropotomac global warming was going to make coffee extinct – or whatever calamity.
    At their site now, I cannot locate an e-version; I will have to check the paper version lining the birdcage.
    Their article noted avg temp change for a growing region in, I believe, South America. I checked the actual thermometer and found it to be – you guessed it – near an airfield.
    What’s more, near a mountain slope/ mountain range.

    now, they have a recent story at their website that focuses on and African issue, not SA.

    In the article I recall, they discussed how coffee came from Africa and has been cultivated in South America.

    This points out two realities: one: we should panic because an introduced species might not fare well over the ,long term in a specific corner of the world?; two: we learned in grade school that habitat ranges vary over time, but now, to note a change of habitat range or geography indicates planetary collapse. Yeah, right.

    If someone can locate this story in Sci Am before I can, please jot the date. Thanks.

  120. D. J. Hawkins says:

    Andrea’s e-mail is andrea.andreasmith@gmai.com. Mods, it’s viewable at Michelle Malkin’s web site http://michellemalkin.com/2012/11/12/document-drop-al-gore-still-pestering-filmmaker-for-firestorm-footage/ so there’s really no point in redacting it.

    Her CV and photo is on her Linkedin page http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=49252033&pid=33264971&authType=name&authToken=f281&trk=pbmap

    A pity, as I am quite partial to redheads ;-).

  121. D. J. Hawkins says:

    Should be “gmail”; don’t know where it will go otherwise.

  122. jb frodsham says:

    “The US is the only country in the world that has an active Climate Denier movement”

    She is an idiot.

  123. Not idiocy, it was deliberate jab. Comparing the backwards Americans to the progressive Australians was designed to make Mr. Tangey feel unpatriotic and out of step. Nice try, but the man can debate rings around her.

  124. j molloy says:

    Im not a climate denier Im a OPTIMIST

Comments are closed.